Oto <what? Oto parts?>- 6/1/07
Hi Robert,
after days of hunting for Oto's I feel that it can not hurt to send you a mail.
<Hello, Neale here.>
> I am in Shanghai and now have a discus aquarium. In Europe I have always had Oto's in my tanks and have always been  fascinated by their behaviour and rewarded by their gentleness. Clean  plants no algae growth on the leaves etc.
<Yes, they can be excellent algae eaters. But I hesitate to recommend them too widely for a variety of reasons, not least of all the fact they seem to travel poorly and the mortality immediately after import is very high.>
> Plenty off algae (green) on the back wall of the tank but not a problem.
<Your observation of their liking for green algae is spot-on. Otocinclus are ideal for planted aquaria where the background level of algae is low and limited to green algae types. In "unbalanced" aquaria with few/no plants, Otocinclus have no useful impact and in fact often starve to death because they will not eat the brown, hair, and blue-green algae common in such tanks.>
> I have hunted everywhere to try and purchase these fellows here in China but have had no success.
<Given you are keeping discus, I would *never* keep Otocinclus with them. I have observed Otocinclus sucking the slime from large, slow fish in my aquaria, and assume that discus would be an obvious target. Other aquarists have observed this, with Otocinclus attacking angels and discus. Far better to choose something a bit large, like one of the "clown" Panaque species (such as Panaque maccus) or even Ancistrus spp.>
> I am hoping that with your knowledge of these fish and your reference to the tiger Oto that has been bred in Asia that you may be able to point me in the right direction to obtain them. I have always had the Otocinclus affini but any Oto's would be fine.
<I personally don't know who is importing/trading that variety, but I'm sure if Bob does know, he'll follow up. As a general rule, placing a "special order" with retailers is often the way to go. I've done this many times.>
> I apologise if this mail is out of context as I have no idea how busy you are or how much mail you get from your site.
> kindest regards
> john Ramsey
<Good luck, Neale>

Pleco sel., sys., using WWM...  2/1/07
Hi it's Amanda again.
<Hello>
I was thinking about getting a small plecostomus, yes I know it won't stay small. If I get one that's about 2" long at the most, it shouldn't be big enough to eat the guppy fry, should it?
<No... Loricariids aren't piscivorous>
They're at least...wow they must be a month old. Anyway, is my 10 gallon tank a suitable home for a Pleco?
<No... too small>
If so, is there any specific species I can get that won't get too big? I tried to look at PlanetCatfish but their site's hard to follow.. Thanks.
<Please read here: http://wetwebmedia.com/FWSubWebIndex/loricariids.htm
and the linked files above. BobF>

Re: hello, Pleco sel.  2/1/07
Hi again
<Amanda>
On the link you gave me it says that zebra Plecos are about 3 inches maximum, if that's true, are they much different that common Plecos other than size and color?
<A ten gallon is not likely to be stable enough for this species...>
Sorry I've been emailing you so much.
Thanks, Amanda
<I'd look to other families, scavenger groups... on WWM, elsewhere. BobF>

Discus Tank Stocking   8/14/06
Dear Crew,
<Eric>
Thank you for the wonderful resource you provide, and for answering my questions in the past. I have recently moved into a new apt. and have taken the opportunity to redo my tank.  Previously it was a planted community, but I would like to give a shot to discus. I do have about 10 years of experience with fish and have done much research but I would like to get some outside opinions on my plans.
<Okay>
I donated all of the fish and kept the plants, which are an assortment consisting mostly of various swords, java moss, java fern, and vals. The only other livestock in the tank are some mystery snails, as well as what I believe are small Ramshorn ( though I am not positive ). I don't mind the snails because as long as I feed them once in a while they leave the plants alone.  
<A good technique>
The tank itself is a 72 gallon ( nominal ) bowfront. The filter is an Aquaclear 500 ( though I believe their model numbers have changed )
using a sponge, carbon and Zeolite bags. Lighting consists of 220w PC (I don't recall the temperature offhand ). The substrate consists of regular gravel mixed with Eco-Complete ( I don't have it in front of me but that's what I believe it is called ) topped off with a thin layer of Tahitian Black Moon Sand for effect. There is rockwork and bogwood as well. Thankfully NYC tap water is good so I don't have to add much in
terms of chemicals besides fertilizer which is dosed every few days ( I use Seachem Flourish and Flourish tabs ).
Once the plants have taken hold, I am currently planning on stocking the tank as follows ( after proper quarantine ):
3-5 discus bought from a breeder ( who preferably uses tap water so that they are conditioned to my water supply )
<Good>
2 or 3 Bristlenose plecs ( 1 male )
1 or 2 pairs of Rams ( are the German and Bolivian Rams different species or breeds ? )
<Please see here: http://www.wetwebmedia.com/FWSubWebIndex/dwfsamcichlids.htm
and the FAQs file linked above. Different species unless the common names are getting switched>
I would like to have a group of a small schooling or shoaling dither fish but haven't decided on which. I will probably go for 10 or so cardinal tetras to keep with the biotype.
<Of good starting size>
5 hatchetfish ( I have a cover )
My main concern is the stocking density as I like to keep away from the crowded tank look because I feel it takes away from the natural behavior of the fish.
<You are wise here. It does>
I am very open to suggestions both as to species and stocking numbers. While I am not setting this up with any species breeding in mind, I do like to see the fish interact and behave as naturally as possible under the circumstances which is why I tried to pair certain fish.
Thanks again for your help,
Eric
<Unless you have plans to move out some of them, I would stick with no more than three discus here. Bob Fenner>

Re: Discus/FW (Rams, Pleco...) Tank Stocking   8/16/06
Dear Mr. Fenner,
<Eric>
Thanks for your quick reply. I choose to go with 3-5 discus because I have read that they better in schools
<If not too crowded...>
of at least 5 but I was worried that it would be too many. I think that I will get 5 small discus and wait a few months to see if any pair off, then return or sell the 1 or 2 that are at the bottom of the pecking order.
<A workable plan>
In regards to the rams, I have been told on a yahoo group, and read elsewhere, that the German rams are a breed of rams (I recall it being Bolivian )
<Mmm, no... are the same Microgeophagus... ramirezi, vs. altispinosa... The Bolivian Ram is a different species... http://fishbase.sinica.edu.tw/Summary/speciesSummary.php?ID=15902&genusname=Mikrogeophagus&speciesname=altispinosus>
that were developed in Germany to exhibit the better coloration. If I decide to not go with the rams, would a pair or two of another dwarf cichlid do
well in this tank, or should I stick with the rams?
<Possibly... there are quite a few species... some too shy, easygoing...>
Is the proper stocking of Bristlenose plecs 1 male to 2 females? Should there be any specific order of stocking?
Thanks again,
Eric
<Best to place whatever sex ratio here, and keep an eye out for possible pairing, remove others if they're being beaten. Bob Fenner>

Re: Imported Loricariid death/s  6/5/06
Bob,  off the record.. I got this Aulonocara from Cichlid Exchange in Portland.  My LFS orders from them (when they can't get stock from African Northwest in Seattle).  I'm furious after this Aulonocara and recently receiving a special order King Tiger Pleco from them last month with a severe case of sunken belly (take a look at the photo attached).
>Did you bring this up with them?< >
>I returned the dead Pleco and talked to the manager of the fish department.  He's worked there for years but was only recently promoted to manager when the previous manager graduated with his PHD in Marine Biology and left to pursue a career in environmental
ecology.  He has a lot to learn now that he's in charge of inventory and ordering and appreciates that I take time to do research and share it with him.  He hasn't placed an order with Cichlid Exchange since I got this Pleco with sunken belly and explained to him these are wild caught, not captive bred Plecos and that's the reason he's been having so many recent Pleco losses.  I told him what happened with my Aulonocara and my concern that the breeder's facility might have an outbreak of mycobacteriosis or some other serious bacterial problem.  He said after hearing this he doesn't plan on ordering from them again.  He has had a number of recent Aulonocara losses
and some were large expensive fish.   He thought the problem might be with the Aulonocara species in general and had even considered discontinuing stocking them.  Do you know any reputable breeders/distributors you would recommend for Cichlids and exotic Plecos?  He could use some help now, especially after receiving a shipment of saltwater with cyanide poisoning (? I know nothing about saltwater) that forced him to shut down half his tanks for a week.<<
<Am referring this question of supply to our most able Cichlid expert, Chuck Rambo. Bob Fenner>

Re: Pregnant Aulonocara died - could it be Mycobacteriosis? Finding A Source For Plecos and Cichlids 6/5/06
Dear Bob,/Cindy A few comments concerning this email.
1) Pregnant Aulonocara I know the cichlid exchange has been getting in many wild Aulonocara species direct from Lake Malawi. After getting this email I am sure that the fish was not pregnant and indeed died of Malawi Bloat. The stress of being shipped half way around the world takes its toll on many of the fish but especially the females for some reason. I don't know the area Cindy is in but it appears to be the NW area of the US where the water is usually very soft and somewhat acidic. Her tank may be set up for Malawi fish but I wonder if the store itself was set up for wild fish. Captive bred fish are much hardier than wild fish when it comes to water conditions and pH. I suspect that the store was not experienced enough to handle wild fish and did not modify the water as needed. Not ordering these wild fish would probably be a good move for the store, the fish, and their customers. Tank bred species would be better but stores and customers are reluctant to wait while these fish grow and color up. 
2) Hollow Bellied Pleco That was really bad. I would recommend that Cindy contact the Cichlid Exchange herself at their website and send along her photo to back up her story. It is true that they are wild fish but that particular fish should not have been sent out. The trouble is, that the suppliers that have good Plecos are very expensive because they hold on to their Plecos for awhile and the Plecos die on them. They make up for the losses by passing the additional costs on to the price of the living Plecos. Many times these prices are too high for many retail customers to buy. 
3) Finding A Source For Plecos and Cichlids. If you are interested in Aulonocara species then there really is no better source than the Cichlid Exchange. The owner is one of the most renown experts on this field in the entire world. Next time I would recommend that you order captive bred fry and grow them up. They are the best and are usually as good or better than wild fish without all the problems that wild fish come with. The wild Plecos are a crap shoot. I see these Plecos all the time at my local wholesaler. Some come in with nice full bellies while others right next to them are skeletons. Apparently when an order is placed it may take three weeks for the collectors to get enough Plecos to fill a box. At day one the first Pleco is caught and placed in a container. It stays their until enough Plecos are caught to fill the box. It has not been fed and so lives off its reserves. The recently caught fish look great. The first ones caught resemble the ones in Cindy's photo. There are many good Plecos from vendors at aquabid.com. But the pricing and shipping may make a purchase cost prohibitive.-----
<Thanks much for these insights Chuck. Will post/share. BobF>

# of fish after fishless cycle, and Pleco Sel.,   2/8/06
Hey gang.  Great website!  (Not to butter you up or anything.)  My little girl (age 5) got a 20 gallon aquarium for Christmas.  We set it up and fishless cycled it with a raw shrimp (fairly large one).  We have the ammonia and nitrites back down to undetectable levels and are in the process of doing water changes to remove the nitrates.  
So...it's fish time.  We have on the menu 4 angel fishes, 3 Kuhli loaches, 1 Oto, and 1 small Pleco (wanted a zebra Pleco until we saw how expensive the are...YIKES!!!).
My main question is with this fishless cycle, how many fish can we add at once?  
<Mmm, best to put in only a few at first... ones that are the hardiest... likely the Angels... though these will get too big for a twenty gallon... the bottom feeders would too likely go hungry at first...>
Couldn't find a good answer to this question searching the site (although with this much information, it's easy to get lost in).
Secondly, any recommendations on a Pleco that will remain small that is interesting and only cost and arm instead of an arm and a leg and 20 gallons of gas.  Oh, yeah...it can't have spots (remember, it's a 5 year old).  She really loved the zebra, but that's a lot of chores for a fish.
<There are a few Ancistrus, Hemiancistrus species to suggest. Do read over re these on the Net (pix on fishbase.org)... and ask specifically re at the store. Not commonly offered>
I'm real proud of how she has been patient with the cycling.  She got a Betta about 6 months ago and has been very good with it.  She makes sure that her Mom and I don't overfeed it.  Just want to get her started on the right track with as few painful memories as possible.
<I understand, and agree>
Thanks for everything and I'm so glad someone out there cares enough to put a great site like this together.  Carry on with the good work!  I'll be checking in again when I finally get my 135 gal saltwater setup soon (hopefully).
Phil
<Outstanding. Peace, life to you. Bob Fenner>

Odd Loricariid Suppliers   1/26/06
Hey crew,
   I like your site, jammed full of goodies. Thank you. I hope you can assist me, I am looking for a source for pleco's and other not so common fish. I can do a <7 box order without any trouble, but I do not need a container full. I would sooner buy from a broker, and not have to play with all the paperwork on the importation.
<I understand, and agree>
I understand that somewhere it is raining and the availability is not always there. But some where it is not raining. My local guys have struck out, shipping floaters, or have been reduced to the gouge.
<Good way of putting this>
Got anybody that is turning around some volume and needs a hand now and then hitting a minimum? Or better yet some one with live product that wants to sell it wholesale?
Thanks
Scott Bates
<What part of the world are you located in? Have you chatted with Oliver Lucanus (here) or at/through his site: Below Water (.com). He's in Canada, but is your best chance among us for a lead here. Bob Fenner>

Sand or gravel? UGF or not? Loricariid sel. 9/13/05
Subject pretty much asks it all.
Is sand better than gravel?
<In some settings yes, in general, no>
(or gravel better than sand?) I've read that sand is bad and is much more difficult to clean. I can understand the
difficult to clean part - since it's smaller grain the gravel cleaner would be more likely to suck it up along with the garbage. I got a bag
of Flipro #4 natural color 'gravel' (50 lbs) but I haven't opened it yet since I'm still undecided on the color. The LFS didn't have any of the
25# bags of SpectraStone I've been using recently (blue). I'm concerned about the #4 being too fine for a UGF to properly work.
<A valid concern>
Anything larger seems to build up algae too easily and would be harder on fry should they appear in the tank before I move 'mom' to the
delivery tank. Anything smaller would be even harder to clean. This is about 1/2 the size of typical aquarium gravel.
I'm leaning toward staying with dark blue (what my current tank is using) since most of my accessories are lighter color (clear plastic or
glass / white ceramic / light blue ceramic) and look better against the dark blue (light colors would 'wash out' against the natural gravel).
Also, I think it would be easier to see Guppies against the darker background - especially the females - when they are near the bottom.
They may be able to see the food more easily as well (as would I when cleaning). Comments? I know the color is more of my preference, but I'm
looking for other opinions on my practical reasoning.
<Please read here: http://www.wetwebmedia.com/FWSubWebIndex/fwsubstrates.htm>
Another consideration is that the dark blue tends to reflect less light. Would using a lighter color gravel (which reflects more light) make the guppies' colors stand out even more?
<If too light, will wash them out>
One more point: My stand is light oak. I was thinking that the darker gravel would add more contrast. But, would darker gravel make the stand
stand out more than the tank? I need a good aquatic designer's opinion! :-)
<Mmm, unfortunately you've crossed over into an area of subjective evaluation ("taste"), of which I am bereft>
I've read that UGF (Under Gravel Filters) are bad since they essentially store harmful bacteria. Is there any truth to that?
<Mmm, some...>
I have one for my 30 Gallon tank, but I haven't added any gravel or sand for it yet, so this is the time to decide to leave it in or remove it. How do you clean the
UGF debris that is sucked to the bottom?
<Please read here: http://www.wetwebmedia.com/FWSubWebIndex/fwugfiltr.htm and the linked files above>
BTW, I was going to buy some plants, but the only tanks I saw with plants had snails. I refuse to buy plants in tanks with snails since
you're no doubt buying snail eggs along with them. I don't want snails. (nothing against them - I just want guppies and the Pleco)
Sabrina suggested a Ancistrus "Bushynose" Plec that would only get 4-5" long rather than my current standard Plec (I was looking for a smaller
size Pleco). I asked a LFS but they only had a "Rubberlip" Pleco. They said it too would only grow to be 4-5" long. Is anyone familiar with that one?
<Yes... a bit different, not as hardy as many other Loricariid choices>
I couldn't find any that wouldn't get to be 12" long when I was buying one :-( so I bought the regular one.
Thanks yet again,
Joe M.
(my post #5 for reference)
<Take a look under the family name on WWM, fishbase.org
Bob Fenner>

Chilly Plec and an Ichy Bluegill? - 08/07/2005
Hi crew,
<Hello, Andrew.>
I have a 30 Gal tank with one 2 inch bluegill, which has ich on its tail. I've looked through your site, but couldn't find any info on salt baths as an after-the-fact treatment,
<Probably because such a method is quite ineffectual.>
but I've seen it mentioned briefly in some places. I don't want to add salt to the tank because the water changes would be extremely difficult.
<.... Why?  It's just for a couple weeks or so.>
Would a salt bath be effective?
<No, not really.  If the fish definitely has ich, then you can be 99% certain that you have ich in the tank.  Getting the parasites off the fish just to toss him back in an infected tank only stresses him enough to help him contract more.>
If so, what kind/dosage of salt should I use and how long should I keep the fish in the bath?
<If you wanted to put him into a clean, uninfected hospital tank after the dip, I would use water with a salinity of seawater (SG 1.022 or so) for up to five minutes.  Be absolutely CERTAIN the water is of the same pH and temperature as that of his tank.  Still, I don't think this is an effective or useful method at all, unless followed up by treatment of one form or another.  I have only used a salt dip as a last resort for a Plec whose gills were so heavily infested that he needed relief immediately or die.  I don't think it is necessary or beneficial in your case.>
On a different note, I want to add a Pleco to the tank for algae control and for more diversity, but I am not sure if it could deal with the temperature (as low as 65 degrees in the winter).
<Just saw a talk last night on collecting fish in Argentina - there were a great many plecs in a river that was colder than that.  I think it would be fine, if you're cautious.>
I also am not sure that a Hypostomus (all that PetCo has) would be right for my tank because of its size. Do you have any suggested species? If so, where could I get these?
<I *think* the "bulldog" or "rubberlipped" Plec is happier in cooler waters.  The talk I saw did include some Ancistrus, as well, so you might look to the commonly tank-bred Bushynose.  Both of these are relatively small algae eating plecs.  Of course, do NOT add any fish until you're certain the ich has been eradicated, and be sure to quarantine newcomers.>
Thanks, Andrew
<Wishing you and your bluegill well,  -Sabrina>

Smaller Plecs
Hello, I have a 37g freshwater aquarium with 4 green tiger barbs. The decor is intentionally that of a "toy" aquarium, with dark-blue substrate and a couple very obviously fake plants. For a filter, I have an Eheim 2026 with ceramic noodles, Eheim Ehfisubstrat, and an "activate carbon sponge" deal replaced every other week. The tank is cycled. I filled it with tap water, but am doing 15% weekly water changes with RO water.
Is this a sufficient setup for any sort of Pleco, and if so, which? Most of the Plecos available locally grow to be at a minimum 5.5", which I feel is a bit large for the tank. Is my decor going to be an issue, as there are no great hiding places? Will the barbs be nipping the pleco's fins?  Also, is my filter + media setup acceptable for a freshwater tank lightly stocked as mine?
Thanks!
Chad
<If the only other fish are the Barbs then you have plenty of room for one of the smaller Plecos. Stay away from the Common or Sailfins. They get huge. If you are looking for algae control then any of the many Bristlenose (Ancistrus) plecs would be a good addition. A Clown Plec would also fit, but you would need to add natural driftwood for him to eat. And there are many meat eating plecs (i.e. Hypancistrus species) that stay small. The Zebra Plec is one of the smallest at around four inches. But this is a very expensive fish. Please research whatever species you get and feed the correct food after lights out. Planetcatfish.com is the keeper of all catfish knowledge. A great place to start your research. You would need to add a cave for any Pleco to call home. Your tank and filter are fine. Don>