Fluffy fish. GF hlth.. Env. "classic"    9/17/09
Hi there
I have 3 goldfish, not too sure what kind, as have only had them for a couple of weeks, though now, one of them seems to be fluffy, it looks more like a blowfish than it does a goldfish,
<Likely Fungus and some sort of systemic bacterial infection. Not promising, I'm afraid. Both these things are caused by bad maintenance in almost all instances, so it really comes down to finding out how YOU made the fish sick. Once we've established that, we can talk about cures and prevention.>
also doesn't seem to be very happy, e.g., hiding in the plants and treasure chest in its tank, the tank is a 9ltr,
<Dismal. Look, a single Goldfish needs something like 25 gallons/90 litres.
You cannot, repeat CANNOT keep Goldfish, or indeed any fish, in a 9 litre tank. Just won't work. Did you read anything before buying these poor fish?
I hate being the person doing the scolding all the time, but if you had read anything about goldfish, you wouldn't have bought a 9 litre tank.
Here's how it goes. Person decides to buy a pet fish. Walks into shop.
Sales clerk sees totally ignorant person browsing 9 litre tanks, and thinks, "Sucker!". Sells that customer 9 litre tank, plastic plants, bubble-operated ornaments, and all the other junk he can think of. Customer
walks out, and a few weeks later all his/her fish are dead. Neale gets an e-mail via WWM, that exasperated wannabe fishkeeper is frustrated, and Neale has to explain that they did everything wrong. Neale, since he likes animals and cares for them, gets worked up, and writes a short-tempered e-mail back to that wannabe fishkeeper. Everyone loses, especially the Goldfish, who's dead.>
just changed the water and put water conditioner in two days ago, fish only came out with this yesterday, any ideas would be greatly appreciated,
<Read here:
http://www.wetwebmedia.com/FWSubWebindex/goldfish101art.htm
You need a MUCH bigger tank. No excuses; if you don't want a bigger tank, or can't afford one at least 90 litres in size, then don't keep Goldfish.
What you're doing is cruel and thoughtless. You also need a filter, and water changes should be limited to 25% per week so that water chemistry doesn't vary too wildly. Goldfish prefer hard water, so you need to think about that too. Hard water isn't salty water, so don't imagine for a nanosecond that adding "aquarium salt" will make things better. What else?
Oh yes, diet. These are herbivores, so if you're feeding just flake or pellets, you'd likely to end up with constipated Goldfish. See here:
http://www.wetwebmedia.com/FWSubWebindex/gldfshmalnut.htm
>
they belong to my 5 year son,
<No, it doesn't belong to your son. It belongs to you. Let's remind ourselves we're talking about animals here, not toy soldiers. Animals come with responsibilities, and a 5-year-old couldn't possibly handle them. So, let's get real here, it's your aquarium, not your sons. What are you going to do about it? Why not show to your son that animals have needs that have to met, and while they're fun to have around, they're also hard work. Don't want to teach that lesson? Then don't keep fish.>
Grrr, would hate for it to die.
<As would I. An anti-fungal medication (not salt, or tea-tree oil such as Melafix) will fix the cotton wool growths that you see. As for the bloating, if you're lucky, that's constipation, and proper feeding will fix
it. If you're unlucky and it's dropsy (in which case the scales will stick out from body, like a pine cone) than the fish is pretty well doomed short of a trip to the vet for antibiotics.
http://www.wetwebmedia.com/euthanasia.htm
Hope this helps, Neale.>

Cheers... GF? Sm. sys.  9/17/09
Thanks for email back,
<No problem.>
I actually didn't buy the fish or the tank, they were a gift to my son for his fifth birthday, I had absolutely nothing to do with the purchase of anything to do with either the tank or fish either, thank you for all the useful info, and I am sorry you got frustrated with it all
<Well, I'm not frustrated with you; if I was, I wouldn't have taken so long to write back. But I do get frustrated that people (for whatever reason, good or bad) buy small fish tanks, stick goldfish in them, and then see them die. It's senseless, it's easily avoidable, and yet it still happens.
All I can hope is that now you do know what to do, you'll listen to your better angels and make your Goldfish happier and healthier.>
Sent from my iPod
<Sent from my MacBook Pro. Cheers, Neale.>

Chocolate Oranda fish 5/17/09
hello,
<Hi,>
I've just bought two Oranda fish for my daughters and put them in a 21 litre tank.
<Uh-oh...>
While looking on your site to find out how to sex them I've discovered the keeping of them is going to be much harder than I imagined! Firstly I haven't got the room for a huge tank so what can I do to make their lives less miserable in pitifully small surroundings?
<Nothing. 21 litres (or 5.5 US gallons) is simply too small for Goldfish, full stop, end of discussion. Even a tank five times that size would be "adequate" for two Goldfish rather than "comfortable". I can't stress too strongly how many Goldfish are stuffed into too-small bowls and tanks, and then die shortly thereafter. It's a shame these small plastic aquaria are so inexpensive: they are basically a con, and despite being "cheap" in terms of pounds, shillings and pence, they're utterly useless for keeping fish, so the shops that sell them are essentially tricking people into wasting their money. If the tank had a heater, you could keep a single male Siamese Fighting Fish in there, but without a heater, that won't work. So you see my point about these tanks being useless!>
Secondly, what's this about peas, what kind of peas, and what else can I feed them?
<Cooked or tinned peas generally work. Beyond that, Goldfish aren't fussy, so if Petis Pois are what you have, they'll eat them!>
Thirdly it said on the box not to overcrowd the tank but I read that the wee things need hidey holes, help!
<Goldfish don't really care about caves, but they do like things like plastic plants that provide shade and structure to the aquarium. But otherwise, provided you don't use garish colours such as My Little Pony pink and blue, which will stress them, they aren't fussed. Just think about the colours/objects in a pond, and go with that.>
I've got a filter in my tank that I'll clean out regularly (but not too regularly because I don't want to stress them out) and I've got an air pump to put oxygen in the water, is this ok?
<So far as it goes, yes. These Orandas won't live long in 21 litres though. Grab a ruler or tape measure. Look at how big 20 cm/8 inches. That's the size of their bodies when mature; the fins are on top of that! Now, compare that size to your 21 litre aquarium. See my point...>
Oh and I live in Scotland so I think it's a hard water area although no clue about ph!
<Some of Scotland has hard water, but a lot of Scotland has soft water. Hence, as you may know, England brews beer (where hard water is required) while Scotland distils whiskey (where soft water is best). Since Goldfish need hard water, and never do well in soft water, this is a key piece of  information. If your kettle "furs" up every couple of months, then you probably have hard water.>
Lastly I'm sorry about being so fish ignorant I thought watching them swim about would relieve stress but I think this is a myth!
<It's not so much a myth, but rather fishkeeping is easier and cheaper compared with keeping, say, a dog or cat. But a fish is an animal, and like any animal, it has needs. You ignore these at your peril! Some folks assume fish are like pot plants, so that all you do is add water. They're not, and our post bag each day underlines the fact much can go wrong if you don't follow the rules.>
Please help me I don't want to be a fish killer or traumatize my children!
<Many of life's dramas can be read by reading a book about something before we actually do that thing...>
Sorry again
Yours Suzy.
<Cheers, Neale (who went to school in Aberdeen, no less).>

My goldfish (Pearlscales; big fish in a small tank)   4/22/09
Hi there,
<Ave,>
I read your answers to peoples' questions regularly as I have 3 tanks myself. One tank with 5 tiny Pearlscales - fully cycled - no problems; next tank has 3 larger Pearlscales - cycled media still waiting for full cycle - water changes every alternate day and use Prime and salt .
<Tiny = babies. Do remember Goldfish grow big, and quickly! These are very messy fish, so you will need a big tank.>
slight nitrite readings but fish very happy.
<These two facts aren't related. Nitrite, any nitrite, is dangerous. Even if your fish seem happy, they can still be biologically stressed, and you won't see trouble until its too late. Fix the nitrite problem.>
On the weekend on I bought 2 large Pearlscale ping pongs from LFS for $70.00 each.
<Yowser! Expensive fish! Hope you've got a good tank for them. Let me summarise briefly: seven Goldfish will require a large tank, at least 250 litres (66 US gallons) to do well. You'll need a reasonably robust filter,
something with a turnover around 6 times the volume of the tank in turnover per hour. So a 250 litre tank would need a filter rated at 1500 litres per hour. Sure, these fish aren't strong swimmers, so you'd use a spray bar and a few bits of smooth bogwood to break up the water current. But you will need generous turnover just to keep the ammonia out of the water and the silt from the substrate. Goldfish across the board need hard, alkaline water: pH 7.5, hardness 10+ degrees dH. If you aren't doing all these things, or prepared to, you'll have problems. And if you're spending serious cash on pedigree Goldfish, then you want them to last their full lifespan of 20-30 years!>
They looked o.k. at the shop, but when I got them home, after floating them for 15 min.s in bag, I put them in small QT Tank bought for purpose.
<"Small tank" and "Large Goldfish" should never go together.>
I had put in cycled material in filter and heater and airstone, checked ph, ammonia, nitrite and temp before putting them in - all good.
<Define "good". Are we talking about 0 ammonia and nitrite, pH 7.5, and a temperature around 18-20 C?>
The orange one just went to the bottom and sat there breathing heavily. he made a few attempts to rise over next day, but mostly just sat on bottom.
The white one looked more lively and was breathing ok. However, I noticed they were very pale around gills and gills were mottled.
<Uh-oh; get them out of the small tank, and put them in something reasonable; 100 litres or so for 2 large Goldfish, at minimum, even as a quarantine tank.>
Both their faces had a bluish tinge and eyes were a bit opaque.
<Mucous; this almost always means they're reacting to some negative aspect of their environment. Mucous production is the first line of defence a fish has against things like poor water quality or sudden pH changes.>
They both ate a little - i went to Uni next day and rang LFS to say one was not well. Came home and white one was not breathing well either gills were sunken, mottled red and white and noticed a couple of flat largish looking spots in rather than on their tail fins and dorsal fins but other wise not a mark on their bodies. Woke up today and both were dead.
<Unfortunately, I'm not surprised.>
Took them back to LFS with water from tank. They said I had an elevated ammonia reading - between 0ppm and 0.25 so there was nothing they could do.
<The tank was too small, the filter likely inadequate, and so ammonia accumulated in the tank faster than either the water could dilute or the filter remove. Completely predictable if you put these fish in "small"
tanks. I really cannot stress this enough: Goldfish need BIG tanks.>
I was mortified to think that something i had done had killed them, but they were never really well and only lasted 2 days - from Sunday to Wed.
<While I can't be sure, if the fish were happy at the retailer, and died within days or being brought home, then it is very likely you *did indeed* do things that caused their death. Review what Goldfish need, and act
accordingly next time:
http://www.wetwebmedia.com/FWSubWebIndex/goldfish101art.htm>
Help - what could have been wrong.
Regards
Xochi
<Hope this helps, but I'm sorry I couldn't help sooner. Cheers, Neale.>

Need Help (Another sick Goldfish, another 10 gallon tank...)  4/12/09
Hi All,
From Tyson & Jolene
We have just recently got started in to the aquatic world and have not had the best luck. Just last week we bought a 10 gallon tank and added about 40% cover fro the fish. We treated the water with Aqua plus which removes both Chlorine and Chloramine and let the water sit to become room temperature or the same as the previous water the fish were in.
We bought 2 Shubunkin goldfish both about 3 inches in length. All started out great the were swimming around and enjoying their new home or sow it seemed. We fed them once a day about 10 pellets of Hikari Wheat-Germ. On the second day we had the fish one (Drum-Stick) started acting strange always going to the surface and almost gasping for air. The fins seem fine, all standing and no deterioration but he was moving around rather slow but there did seem to be an almost spasm or twitch to his tail which we accredited to stress.
The other fish (Frout) almost seemed to get agitated and attack the side walls as if another fish. Both fish were opening and closing their mouths as if eating almost constantly is this regular?
On day 3 of owing the fish when we came home Drum-stick was floating on the top on his side and one of his eyes had turned red. When you touched him he would swim away but always float back to the top with the same side up.
What would cause this? The next morning he had passed.
I have taken a water sample and Drumstick back to the pet shop but I will no have the results for this email. I changed the water and Frout seems to be doing better but he now seems to be still opening his mouth constantly.
He ate a couple pellets but no many. Do you have any suggestions of what we might do to give this fish a good and happy home?
Tyson & Jolene
<Hello Tyson and Jolene. This is the third or fourth such e-mail today!
Must be a record. If you check today's (4/12/2009) FAQs, you'll find a number of messages about Goldfish:
http://www.wetwebmedia.com/daily_faqs3.htm
So please, save me from typing all that out again by reading those instead!
In particular, let me draw your attention to the fact 10 gallons is too small for Goldfish, and nothing you do will help short of buying an aquarium at least three times the size, assuming you want to keep multiple
Goldfish (if you were feeling particularly cruel, you could keep a singleton in 20 gallons I suppose, but they're social fish, so why bother?). You also need a robust filter, not some poky hang-on-the-back
unit. Do read my article on keeping Goldfish, here:
http://www.wetwebmedia.com/FWSubWebIndex/goldfish101art.htm
Let me summarise though: Goldfish are pond fish, not aquarium fish. If you want to keep them indoors, you need a big aquarium. The fact your fish is/are sick/stressed simply demonstrates that water quality is poor and you're nor providing the conditions this species needs. I cannot stress this strongly enough; whatever ideas you have about Goldfish coming from seeing Goldfish swimming in bowls on TV, that's garbage in reality. Any pet store that told you a "small" (i.e., baby) Goldfish would be fine in a 10 gallon tank saw you as being someone inexperienced enough they could "sell a bill of goods to" as the Americans say. I prefer to deal with reality, and with Goldfish, that means a 30 gallon tank and a reasonably powerful internal or external canister filter optimised for biological and mechanical filtration. Hope this helps, Neale.>

Telescopic goldfish, var., sys.  – 04/12/09
i just bought 3 telescopic goldfish and after i put them in my tank i noticed that one of them have a lot smaller dorsal fin is this normal ? is it bad ? and this is a stupid question will it grow back ?
<Assuming that these were store-bought rather than pedigree Goldfish, yes, this is probably nothing other than variation. Won't grow back, but not a problem either. I hope you have a nice big tank, and that it's already cycled and adequately filtered. Telescope-eye Goldfish get to about 20 cm in length and three specimens will need at least 125 litres/30 gallons.
Funnily enough, I've just answered a couple of queries today from people with sick Goldfish in too-small tanks. In the meantime, do see here:
http://www.wetwebmedia.com/FWSubWebIndex/goldfish101art.htm
Cheers, Neale.>

Re: telescopic goldfish – 04/12/09
have two more question. i only have a 10 gallon tank right now plan on getting bigger is this ok for now ?
<No.>
and my water wont stay clear why tank to small?
<Precisely so. Goldfish need at least 20 gallons when small, and 30 gallons or more as adults. They are schooling, messy fish -- so don't skimp on filtration!>
when should i get another tank ?
<As/when the pet stores open in your area. It's Easter Monday tomorrow here in the UK at least, and that's a bank holiday. But Tuesday the shops should be open. Buy a big aquarium with a heavy-duty filter. Don't get mislead by using small, weak filters just to save a few bucks; trust me, you'll regret it. Cheers, Neale.>

New Tank Set Up, Goldfish  5/1/08
I've had tanks in the past and miss them.
<Come on back to the fold...>
I am getting ready to start a new tank and at our local aquarium store, I found a 37gal tank but it is square and tall. It looks really cool and I wanted to see if that would be an issue in the long run with fish. I know that goldfish need longer, wider tanks to swim in, but if I were to keep smaller freshwater fish, would this be a problem?
<Not likely if kept circulated, filtered... carefully fed and maintained>
I am not keeping cichlids or fish that will grow large in size either.
Aquarium stores want to sell you something.
<Is their job>
I tested the guy by asking if this tank was good for goldfish, knowing it wasn't and he said "sure"! I appreciate your help and your honesty in answering this question for me.
<Mmm, as stated, these fishes do prefer more "squat" profiles than "show" for swimming, gas solubility reasons... Bob Fenner>

Safest way to introduce a new goldfish 10/13/08
Hi everyone,
<Hello,>
I'll start by thanking you all for the tireless work you do in answering everyone's questions and posting articles. It really is very generous of you and I know the info I have received on your site has made all the difference to my fish's happiness and my enjoyment. I have thanked you before but it's worth doing so again.
<Thanks for your kind words.>
I have an 8 gallon tank (currently empty) which previously housed a small Black moor for about 8 weeks. During that time it never really cycled and got stuck at the nitrite stage with me doing water changes every day to prevent nitrites getting to high (they remained at around the 0.5ppm level with water changes).
<Likely "cycled" as far as it could; in small tanks the supplied/installed filter may never be able to remove the nitrite and ammonia sufficiently quickly enough to cover the mess created by Goldfish.>
So, when the new 35 gallon tank arrived I moved the fish in almost straight away (after 3 days testing) as I figured if he was going to be stuck in a cycling tank he would much prefer it to be the larger and more interesting one with the decent filter which (thanks to Neale) is rated just over 6x water volume.
<Cool.>
I'll add now, for everyone else who reads this mail, if anyone wants to know the advantage of housing a goldfish in a bigger home (beyond the water quality problem - which is in itself a great reason to do the right thing) they should see how ridiculously happy my fish seems now he has space, real plants to munch and something to do all day. Despite him seeming "fine" before I swear now he's almost giddy with glee (perhaps I am anthropomorphizing to a certain extent but the different in behaviour really is remarkable).
<You get it! That's the point to upgrading Goldfish to bigger tanks -- it isn't that they won't survive in small bowls or tanks (some certainly do survive) but you don't see them at their best. Spending a little more money up front turns your pet from being a lingering fishy ornament into a happy, active pet.>
Anyway, back to my question... The final stage in the "Make Fat Tony Happy" plan is to get him a friend in the form of another fancy goldfish. I am now unsure how best to go about it. The options as I see them are:
1) keep the smaller tank going, keep feeding it and wait until it cycles then use it as a quarantine tank for the new fish before moving it to the 35 gallon.
<Possible.>
2) wait until the bigger tank has fully cycled then add the new fish straight in
<Also possible; quarantining is the ideal, but if there's only a single fish in the existing tank, and treating with anti-Finrot or anti-Whitespot is safe (as it is with Goldfish) I might be tempted to risk introducing diseases rather than expose a new fish to unhealthy (non-zero ammonia) conditions in the small tank. It's really 6 of one and half a dozen of the other.>
I would really prefer option 1 as it seems the safest option for everyone. However, I am concerned about the lack of cycling in the smaller tank when my fish was previously kept in there.
<Well, you'd certainly need to keep adding the odd pinch of flake to ensure the existing filter stays "alive".>
Perhaps 8 weeks wasn't long enough or perhaps in my concern for the fish I was keeping the nitrite levels too low and now that I can allow them to build up as they want the cycle will come with time?
<Most tanks cycle in under 6 weeks. Goldfish being Goldfish, short term exposure to ammonia and nitrite doesn't usually cause undue hardship to the more robust varieties (Moors, Comets, Shubunkins, etc.). It's the delicate fancy varieties that are most sensitive (Ranchus, Pom-poms, Celestials, etc.).
Or perhaps the silly small tank and silly little filter just never will be up to the job of housing a goldfish, even just for 3 or 4 weeks and even if I cycle it without a fish as soon as I add one we'll hit water quality problems immediately.
<This argument certainly has its merits.>
I guess I'm just asking your opinion on the safest, least stressful approach for both my existing fish and the new one? As I can now do water changes in my sleep I'm not looking for the easiest option at all, but the best one for the fish.
<I'd make sure the existing Goldfish and its aquarium is in good condition, and then add a new fish to that aquarium directly. The risk is small, and any potential penalties in terms of diseases shouldn't be difficult to handle. Do take care choosing tankmates: Moors are best kept with their own kind, classic Fantails, or single-tail Goldfish like Standard Goldfish and London Shubunkins that aren't quite so frenetic as Comets (these latter are best left in ponds). Moors they tend to be a bit hard on the more delicate Fancies, taking the food and asserting their dominance too easily in the "pack". Basically, don't combine them with anything [a] lacking a dorsal fin; or [b] with weird growths on its head.>
Thanks again!
<Cheers, Neale.>

Goldfish (BiOrb - the old, old story) 11/25/08
Hello, I was wondering if you can help me, I own a biorb tank ( the medium sized one) and I have had three fantails and a lion head living in there for over a year with no problems. Then all of a sudden they all seem to have got some mystery illness. They are all just sitting at the bottom of the tank with little movement; they hardly even come up to feed anymore. The worse symptom is that they are all covered with this white substance all over their body like a cobweb even in the gills, and the goldfish's tail seemed to just gradually disappear?? Two of my fish have already died and the other two have still got the disease rather badly. I have been looking around and I cant find anything to do with this strange white cobweb like substance all over their bodies. I clean them out once a week by doing a 2/3rd water change and they seem to perk up for about 10 minutes after I've done it. Thank you for your help x
<Hello! I never like answering questions about Bi-Orb tanks because I know they're expensive and people don't want to hear what I tell them. But the problem is that these tanks are rubbish. They are certainly of no use whatsoever for keeping Goldfish. They are too small, don't have enough surface area for oxygen to get in, and the filtration system is too weak. They are the wrong shape for Goldfish. Everything about them is wrong, except for the fact they contain water, which at least makes them better than trying to keep a Goldfish in a rabbit hutch. But that's the only "good" thing about them. In terms of usefulness, they have none. The reason your fish look happy after a water change is suddenly they're in good water conditions. After a while the water goes bad again, and they become unhealthy. The white "cobwebs" are likely Fungus, and will need to be treated using something like eSHa 2000 or some other proprietary formalin/copper-based medication. Avoid rubbish like Melafix, Pimafix or the use of salt. Finrot may also be present, and this will likely be why the fin membranes are dissolving. Medications for this include some of the formalin/copper-based ones that also treat Fungus, or you could use an antibiotic such as Maracyn or Furanace. It is possible you're also seeing excessive mucous production, which appears as whitish slime on the bodies of Goldfish when they are stressed. In any case, beyond treating for Fungus and Finrot (I'd encourage you to treat with a medication that cures both) your Goldfish will need a bigger, at least 30 gallon aquarium with a decent filter. Do remember NOT TO USE carbon in the filter when using medications. Your Bio-Orb is of no further value to you. By all means voice your frustration at your retailer for selling such a piece of rubbish, but I'm afraid your Goldfish don't have any options but to move to a new home.
http://www.wetwebmedia.com/FWsubwebindex/goldfish101art.htm
Cheers, Neale.>

Re: Goldfish (Bio Orb - the old, old story) 11/26/08
Thank you for getting back to me, sadly the last two fish died this morning. I did have an idea that it could be the tank, but then i thought why would anyone invent a tank for goldfish, that goldfish cant be kept in.
i did put them in another tank a few days ago with treatment but it must have been too late. don't worry i wont be using it again, luckily i didn't pay for it anyway i got it given (i wonder why).
thank you for the honest reply.
<Sorry to hear the bad news. By all means use the Bio Orb for Cherry Shrimps and so on. But I don't recommend their use with fish. Cheers,
Neale.>