Tank Cycling Question (Guppies) 4/22/08
Hi
I've spent a week reading up on keeping guppies before setting up my tank and I just found your site yesterday. I've been reading up on cycling, and I think I understand it all now (or maybe you'll prove me wrong).
<OK.>
I've got a 40 gallon tank which has been running with the sand, heater/filter/light for a few days and I'm off to the LFS today to buy a large mixture of plants (partly to hide the hideous looking filter!). If I then add a pair of male guppies will the cycle be more 'gentle' than most?
<Guppies are an appalling species for cycling tanks; Fancy Guppies at least are flimsy at the extreme. Feeder Guppies are arguably better, but in any case, you should cycle the tank with a fish-less method anyway. Set up the tank, and either use ammonia dosed sufficient to maintain around 0.25-1 mg/l or else just add a portion of flake food every day or two and let it rot. After 3-4 weeks, the tank should have cycled adequately well you can add the first hardy fish.>
I'm hoping that 2 small fish in a relatively large, well planted tank won't cause huge levels of ammonia/nitrites.
<If you have two tiny fish in a giant tank, the amount of ammonia they produce will only develop filter bacteria adequate for two tiny fish. As soon as you add a big fish, like a Plec or Cichlid, there will suddenly be a new ammonia crisis as the bacteria are totally overwhelmed. So you may as well cycle the tank using ammonia/food at a level where it mimics the foreseen loading in terms of fish.>
Thanks for any help, I really appreciate the time you guys put into answering all our questions. Jef
<Thanks for the kind words. Cheers, Neale.>

Nitrogen Cycling Process and Timing – 04/1/08
Crew,
Thank you for offering such a fantastic service. I believe I have spent a couple dozen hours searching your pages for help and general tips. But I haven't found anything that answers this question regarding timing. With that I would like to raise my concern. As a fairly new hobbyist, I've probably made some mistakes. My current setup is a 10 gallon freshwater tank. The *current* parameters and stock are as listed:
Average Temp: Heated to 74-75 (I have 2 therms in there to check)
Ammonia: Safe (an indicator, not a test)
Hardness: ~200 (GH) ppm
Alkalinity: ~200 (KH) ppm
pH: 8 (I add TopFin pH Decrease about everyday, but it never goes down
according to my test strips)
Chlorine and related chemicals: 0
Nitrite: 7 ppm (mg/L)
Nitrate: 17 ppm (mg/L)
Stock: 2 African Dwarf Frogs (gender unknown), 1 Male Guppy, and 3 Female Guppies
Plant life: 1 Anubias (don't know exactly what kind) and 2 Anacharis
Substrate: Medium sized gravel (definitely not big enough to be swallowed by any critters I'll keep)
Tank Lighting: None (room and natural light)
Filter: A generic TopFin 10 gallon hanging filter
<Without actual aquarium lights, it's unlikely the plants will grow. Certainly not the Anacharis, so you may as well remove that before it rots. Anubias isn't fussy about lighting, and will do well even with a mere 1-1.5 Watts per gallon.>
Here is where I made a couple of mistakes. This setup is only about 3 weeks old (I know, too many too fast). It was up and running for 24 hours after being treated with Prime and Cycle before I added any critters. The first critter was one frog. I keep the lone frog for one week, doing about 3 water tests (with those multi-test strips). The parameters seemed fine.
So I bought the 1 male guppy and 2 female guppies (I anticipate them getting pregnant, but don't plan on actually raising the fry. If they become food for their parents, I won't complain. I plan on raising later broods). I also added more Cycle, per instructions, and do 25% water changes once to twice a week. The water tests revealed that everything was still OK. Since everything seemed ok, I bought another African Dwarf Frog another female guppy (also too quickly as I found out). I fed the frogs a mix of frozen bloodworms and frozen brine shrimp (primarily bloodworms) twice a day. And the guppies 2-3 times a day with flake food. I hand feed the frogs and if I notice that the guppies eat some of the frog's food, I will count that as a meal for the guppies and accordingly feed them less that day. Within a couple days of having purchased the guppies the ammonia indicator changed to "Alert" which I expected while the bacteria was still catching up to having 5 new critters in the tank. The Nitrites and Nitrates have also risen (as I also expected). I just figured that it was most likely the tank doing it's own cycling process since I, in my novice-ness, didn't do a good job cycling. The rest of the parameters seemed fine, with no real changes.
Well now the ammonia indicator is saying that the ammonia is back down to safe (which I am very pleased about). But the nitrites are still high and the nitrates are rising.
<Nitrite always lags a couple of weeks behind ammonia, so if the ammonia is now zero, the nitrite will be declining pretty soon.>
I've cut back the feeding. I feed the frogs once a day and the guppies twice a day. I also keep the light off a little more (but am also concerned that the plants might not get enough light). I also have not bought a vacuum yet for my tank, so I imagine the substrate is getting kinda dirty. I've budgeted for a vacuum soon.
<Lay off feeding entirely while you have ammonia/nitrite problems. Or at least, feed no oftener than once every 2-3 days. The Guppies at least will eat algae, and Frogs certainly don't need a lot of food.>
Here is my question. In a normal cycling process, does the ammonia level drop back to 0 before the nitrites do?
<yes.>
Is it a domino effect?
<No.>
I'm concerned that the nitrites will continue to rise, thus increasing my nitrate levels to less-than-friendly levels. Or should I just give the tank a few more days and another water change to see where the parameters stand?
I test the water daily and actually record the data collected on an excel spreadsheet. I have graphs that show exactly where the levels are and have been, which then provide me with indications of where the parameters might be heading. This document is available if you would like to see it.
<No need. Nothing here is terribly unusual. Patience, water changes, reduced food, constant monitoring will help you get through this phase. I suspect you already know this since you're doing mostly the right things and asking the right questions.>
So in sum; will my nitrite levels naturally decrease with time, just like my ammonia levels did? And is there a cost-effective way to reduce nitrate (other than my weekly 25% water changes)?
<Nope.>
I'm sorry that I'm so new at this, but I have learned a lot and am still learning. Thanks again for the wonderful work you guys accomplish here in helping us. Hope to hear from you soon and keep up the good work.
Very Respectfully,
Dan
<You will need aquarium lights, and a 10 gallon tank is too small for Guppies in the long term, but beyond that, "the light is at the end of the tunnel". Cheers, Neale.>

Fishless Cycle.   3/12/08
Hello Neale,
<Hello again!>
you might remember that I had the intention of starting a 46-gal tank. Well, that tank is now stocked of plants and currently undergoing a fishless cycle. In particular, the cycle started 20 days ago and I'm now in phase 2 with Nitrite stuck at 2, Ammonia is 0 and Nitrates 10. I have few questions:
1) How long do you think it's going to take for the cycle to finish?
<Varies, anything up to 6 weeks. Increasing temperature and oxygenation can help, within the tolerances of your plants of course, as will adding pinches of fish food to give the bacteria something to "eat".>
2) The water turned cloudy and has a green color. Do you think I should do a partial water change or it's better to hold off and wait until the cycle is over?
<Do the water change. It is quite common for water to turn cloudy early on in an aquarium's life. Settles down by itself eventually.>
I never did a partial water change so far in that tank, but I'm a bit worried that the green water could affect plants growth.
<Shouldn't cause any long-term problems; once the plants become established and actively growing, they will suppress the growth of algae across the board: on the glass, in the water, on the leaves.>
Thanks for your help,
Giuseppe
<Good luck! Neale.>

Question on mini-cycle after fishless cycle, FW    2/19/08
Hello Crew,
<Allison>
I started a 30-gallon freshwater aquarium on a fishless cycle and got ammonia and nitrite readings down to zero after about a month. I then purchased six zebra Danios and three Cory catfish. I've had the fish for eight days and am now detecting 1ppm ammonia.
<Ah, yes... perhaps a "little too much, too soon" life being placed here>
I'm hoping that the fishless cycle did some real good and that this is just a mini cycle.
What should be my next move?
<Mmm, reading and perhaps the use of BioSpira or such... and cessation of feeding with ammonia this high. Start here: http://wetwebmedia.com/FWSubWebIndex/fwestcycling.htm
and the linked files above>
Today I changed about 10% of my water using tapwater conditioned with Amquel. I have chloramine in my water so I know I need something that neutralizes both the chlorine and ammonia, but I'm concerned that the Amquel, even though I added it only to the new water, will remove the ammonia in my aquarium and leave my bacteria to starve once I add the conditioned water to the tank.
<Mmm, good question/concern... Shouldn't remove all, so much that it causes a loss of nitrification>
I've read conflicting things about whether the ammonia left from Amquel can actually be eaten by the bacteria or whether it throws off your biological cycle. I read Bob Fenner's article (http://wetwebmedia.com/FWSubWebIndex/taptrtmnt.htm) on treating tap water but I wish he listed what the "real" dechloraminators and the "pseudo" dechloraminators are. I.e. is Amquel the real thing?
<It is indeed... as are all such products that contain PVP (Poly vinyl pyrolidone)...>
I also have a product called Stress Coat by Aquarium Pharmaceuticals which says it neutralizes chloramine but I have a feeling this product falls into the pseudo category because of what Bob wrote about coating the fish so the chloramine doesn't attack them, even though it's not neutralized in the water.
<This is also a fine product... by API, the other by Kordon...>
Summary of my questions: what do I do in this mini-cycle, what is a good ppm to shoot for both ammonia and nitrite to reduce harm to my fish but keep the biological filter growing, and what is the best tap water conditioner for getting rid of chloramines but not disrupting the cycle? Thanks!!
Allison
<Move the livestock to an established system if possible, cease feeding period if ammonia is near 1.0 ppm., make massive water changes if beyond this... Seek out means to bolster the nitrifying organisms (covered in the citation above)... Bob Fenner>

Fishless-Cycling Unwanted Snails off of Plants (How about some Dwarf Puffers?) 12/18/07
Hello WWM Crew,
<Hi Bill, Pufferpunk here>
I've just set up a new aquarium (29G) in the last 2 days and am in the process of fishless cycling, using 4-5 drops of additive-free ammonia per day based on recommendations I've gathered from around the web.
<4-5 drops won't be nearly sufficient--you need to add enough ammonia to get it to test at 5ppm. Waaaay more than 5 drops! Keep that up daily, until you see nitrite & then half the amount of drops until you see nitrate & the ammonia & nitrate remain 0 at the end of the day. Then do an 80% water change & add fish. Simple! Don't forget to "seed" the tank with some gravel from an established tank.>
I love aquarium plants and I plan on being able to support livebearer fry (got my eye on some platy fish and maybe guppies) so I've been acquiring plants like hornwort, java moss, etc. with lots of tiny hiding places on them. Research
I've seen on the web leads me to believe that plants will grow and thrive in the presence of fish-toxic ammonia levels, so I've bravely placed them in the tank while it cycles, along with some driftwood. I got them at local
fish super-stores and unfortunately, that means pond snails. Brown, football shaped pond snails. There are little juvenile pond snails sliding all over my new plants, hiding in very tiny places of both moss and driftwood!
I just dropped them into the cycling water last night. My question is: Will Pond snails survive the ammonia cycle?
<Probably not.>
Can/Should I cycle the tank with a little extra ammonia to eradicate them en-masse as a convenient side-effect?
<You definitely need to add more than you are now, for a successful fishless cycle. That should kill the snails & actually aide in the cycling. I'd try to remove as many as the carcasses you find.>
I clearly want to avoid hurting my plants with excess
ammonia. There's no charcoal in my tank at the moment but my water is a little under PH 7 which will reduce the ammonia toxicity (to fish!). Temp is usually 74-78 F.
<Why the such large fluctuation in temp? You're going to try to keep that steadier, around 78.>
I'm having trouble locating data on ammonia toxicity to
plants (and ammonia-eating bacteria) and I'm worried about being too clever for my own good because after all ammonia is still a household disinfectant.
<Your plants should be fine.>
As an alternative, I've thought about using Clown loaches or some Dwarf puffers (among others) for snail removal once the tank finishes cycling but I have no intention of keeping them in my tank permanently and it seems a little selfish to "rent" a fish from a pet store (buying then returning
it).
<I strongly agree!>
If I buy a sick fish, the rest of my tank could get sick too. Also, I'm not sure how effective fish (even the tiny puffers) would be at eliminating snails completely from the middle of a mass of java moss, how long I'd have to keep them in there to wait for remaining snail eggs to hatch and be eaten, etc...
<Puffers & loaches are very efficient snail eradicators. Maybe you'll fall in love with the puffers though! They are very easy to breed too. You could keep 5 of them in your 29g but be sure to get 1-2 males & the rest females. Here is how to sex them:
http://www.thepufferforum.com/forum/library/puffers-in-focus/sexing-carinotetraodon-travancoricus-the-dwarf-puffer/ just in case...>
Last resort: snail killer. I don't like the idea of putting pesticides in my tank *at all* but if there was ever a time to nuke the tank with chemicals, the best time is when there aren't any fish around to get caught in the crossfire. Since I'm already planning on doing a big water change
before adding any fish, removing snail killer chemicals would conveniently fit into my plan.
<Don't do it!>
One final question, slightly related. I have another established tank in addition to the new one. I would like to have a breeding colony of ghost shrimp and the breeding colony of livebearers mentioned above. Should these be in separate tanks or could they both go into the new tank once it's done? Platies seem to like nibbling at rocks, leaves, plastic and I'm worried about them eating all the baby ghosts.
<I think the fish would eat the baby shrimp.>
Thanks a bunch, Bill
PS: Love the site!
<Thanks! I know I gave you more info on those puffers than you asked for but I thought you might be interested in breeding something a little more challenging & personable than platies. I could be prejudiced though... ;) ~PP>

Re: Fishless-Cycling Unwanted Snails off of Plants (How about some Dwarf Puffers?) 12/29/07
Hey Pufferpunk,
<Bill>
I started re-reading general plant information and strayed off into the business of livestocking articles, not searching but perusing. There I happened across Bob's 20-minute Alum solution recipe for killing snails on plants. Now I feel like I rushed it by adding the plants at all! Oh well, it went into the favorites list.
<Good, keep researching!>
Wow, 5ppm ammonia? I squirted some extra in last night and it tested at .5. The snails are barely affected, Grr! If my math is correct, a 29G tank is going to have around... 105,000 ML in it. So if I add two ML's of ammonia (and it's pure) then that should give me around 5 PPM, right? Hmm,
will have to run a test on that!
<Definitely. You can start in a gallon/liter jug & see how much ammonia it takes to get that to 5ppm.>
Keep temperature under control, ok. (I wasn't too concerned yet without fish).
<I was more concerned about your future fish.>
On the subject of puffers, 3-5 gallons for a one inch fish seems like... kind of a lot of open water. More than I was planning on, anyway.
<Puffers are territorial (prefer lots of plants/decor to investigate), messy eaters & high waste producers. They make up for it with personality though!>
Perusing that link you sent me quickly, I see that Dwarf puffers are often fin nippers on just about everything, big or small. Any suggestions for compatibility? Do you they usually suffer from an overcrowding issue more than a compatibility issue?
<A little of both. Folks have success keeping them with Otocinclus & larger species of shrimp. Stocking your "breeding facility" is totally up to you. Just thought I'd give you my preferences. Don't get me wrong, I also love breeding my mollies too!>
Thanks again, Bill

Re: Parrotfish (gone, now trying to fix tank) 12/25/07
Hi Jeni,
<Shana>
<<Unfortunately, it can be a difficult to find product. I'd call around first--save gas $$$>>
I found another product that claimed to have "live" bacteria, but as you said it was bunk, I didn't buy it. I will call around and see if I can find some. Is it worth it to order it online considering the delivery time with the holidays and all?
<Good call! Your best bet is to try www.drsfostersmith.com. At least you'll know it has been refrigerated correctly. Do daily water changes until it arrives & another large water change, before adding it directly to your filter.>
<<You need to know what your ammonia level is too. No need really, to test hardness or Alk>>
Ok, I will have to get a tester for that then. I sent my husband to get a test kit and he came home with the strips.
I gave you the information that the strips gave me.
<Try the Aquarium Pharmaceuticals liquid test kits from the same site.>
<<There is never any reason not to do large water changes on your tank, unless it has Old Tank Syndrome, which means there hasn't been a water change done on the tank in a very long time. Since you are dealing with New Tank Syndrome, large water changes are the only thing you can do right now to keep the fish from poisoning themselves with their
waste. You must try your best to keep the ammonia & nitrite at 0 (any amount is toxic) & nitrate below 20. I would do 80% daily water changes, until you can return most of those fish. Add Prime to dechlorinate the water, it will
detoxify some of the ammonia/nitrite in there. Be sure to try and match the temperature of the water you remove.>>
Ok, all of that makes sense to me. Unfortunately I lost my eel this evening. However, since the tank change this evening (80%, close to matching temp, like you said), all of the others are FAR more active and all of them ate well.
<Sorry about your eel. :o{ Glad the water change is helping though.>
When I drew out the water though, I was surprised to find it far cooler than it had been the day before. I put it in warm, did a 20% change and suddenly it was cold. I thought my heater had gone on the fritz but I burned the F......eathers out of myself when I touched it. I am certain the cooler water temp didn't help anyone, much less my injured eel but am a loss as to why it was cooler than it was when I put it in.
<Maybe the heater isn't strong enough for your tank? Be careful changing the temp too quickly, stressing the fish further.>
<<Where did the parrot go? The tiger barbs will nip at the long fins of the Betta, guppies & angelfish Common Plecos grow to 18">>
I took the parrot back on Saturday (along with the red tail shark they sold me). They wouldn't take the angel or eel back as they weren't a danger to anyone in the tank (according to them) and they would be fine in the tank (according to them). They wouldn't issue a refund or certificate for later purchase for the fish they did allow return on--all they would do is trade, so I ended up bringing more fish back home.
<Oh no! The tank still is not cycled. Last thing you needed was more fish. I can't believe they wouldn't have just given you a credit for later. Not the way to do business in a fish store AT ALL!>
She assured me over & over that the barbs would be fine with the angel and Betta (and my guppies were in a bag waiting for me at that moment). I kept thinking I had read they were nippers but she repeatedly assured me they were not and so I came home with a couple. They do the weirdest thing though: kind of a do-se-do with each other. They do something that looks like "kissing", then they twirl around with each other, then one pushes the other (they take turns at that). I can't tell if they are fighting, mating or playing. They are oblivious to the rest of the world when they are doing it though.
<Schooling fish will chase each other (sometimes to the death), if not in a school of at least 5-6 fish.>
I found out that my husband knows the actual owner of the store (he doesn't run it or have much to do with it other than financing it, I guess). I have been dealing with a manager and an employee. So, my husband is going to try to reach the owner tomorrow and work something out with them. If nothing else, maybe we can get them to foster my brood until my tank is up to par for them (this is a very small, local store).
<I hope so! I also hope you print out a copy of our correspondence & tell him about the horrid advice his employees are giving out. I can guarantee you they are selling everyone tank fulls of fish for uncycled tanks & killing a LOT of fish.>
All options are with the exception of the barbs. Even if I have to give those back at a loss, I will. Hopefully they will trade with me but if not, they still aren't coming back here. I'm ticked that twice now, in 3 days, I have been talked into buying an aggressive fish that will harm my Betta or angel. Those are the 2 primary fish for me, with the Betta being in the lead. I feel so bad for Bettas and they are such beautiful, friendly fish that are loaded with personality--the Betta is the reason and center of the tank. If it doesn't get along with a Betta, it doesn't belong in my tank. Angels are my next favorite as they are so beautiful, calm and laid back. They just cruise and are just a mesmerizing joy to watch.
<As long as you only keep one though. If keeping 2 & they try to spawn, they turn into beasts!>
Those are my 2 fish, anything else is an additive that I will attach to later. (I am rapidly becoming very fond of my bubble mollies). The guppies are like watching a couple of kids--you just never know what they are going to do, lol.
<Bettas & guppies won't work. Bettas don't like competing with other long-finned fish.>
The barbs are beauties and they interest me in their activities but they need to go if they are going to be harmful to the others, as I now don't doubt they will be.
Now, I have a couple of other questions: I am keeping the Betta. He is not going back, even for fostering. They sell their Bettas in these little 4 oz condiment cups with no air holes in the lid and barely enough water to cover the fish. I don't know if they think these guys are indestructible or what but he isn't going back there. I have a 1 gallon fish bowl that I can keep him in until he can go back into the tank. But my question is: if a Betta can live under the conditions most put them in, then wouldn't he be an ideal "scout" fish for cycling?
<Any fish you put into a cycling tank is under extreme stress & danger of permanent damage to it's gills, eyes & skin from ammonia/nitrite burn.>
Second, I have been concerned about my Pleco and whether he is eating. As per your site, I put some Nori (about 1/3 of a sheet torn into about 3 pieces and placed around the tank) and a bit of zucchini. I've seen the mollies eating on the Nori and zucchini but not him. Sooooo, I got him some algae wafers and put one in. I haven't seen him touch that yet either. Since the water change he is far more active and is making quite the spectacle of himself halfway up the glass (right in the middle with the light on).
<This is not normal behaviour for a Pleco. He sounds stressed. Does he have enough cover? Common Plecos grow to 18", BTW.>
Do you think he is eating ok? Will he find the food on his own?
<Plecos are nocturnal eaters. Try adding a couple of algae wafers after lights out.>
I bought some freeze dried shrimp and replaced the bloodworms with them in tonight's feeding. Everyone cleaned up. (I can't get fresh or frozen locally, so have to go with freeze dried). With so many food options, should he and the rest be ok as long as I can keep the toxin levels in the tank down for a few days until I can get them out? Like I said, the Betta I can put in a bowl. It isn't ideal but I know how to do a Betta bowl and can keep him healthy and semi happy. The rest are at the mercy of the tank.
<As long as you continue to do 80% daily water changes, while monitoring the parameters. Try to keep ammonia & nitrite as close to 0 as possible (any amount of either is toxic) & nitrate below 20. If you need to do large water changes more often, go ahead. Just keep using Prime for dechlorinating. Also, I would feed as little as possible. Feeding a lot causes more waste to an uncycled tank that can't break down waste.>
Thank you so much for your help. I know I'm being a PITA right now but honestly, I do learn. I have just gotten into a bad situation because I have a hard time telling people they are wrong when I know little about a subject myself. I basically let myself get bullied into my current situation and have no one to blame but myself.
<This is quite a learning experience for you then--in more ways than one. :o) Nothing wrong with being a strong woman who stands up for what she thinks is right or wrong & doesn't let people bully her.>
We are working on getting the fish out of the tank (I even have a 911 out to all of my friends and family to help me find someone with an established tank that can either take or foster the fish). I am not taking what you tell me lightly or thinking it will all work out ok in the end. I made a terrible mistake and know I need to be aggressive in correcting it. But I do need your help in keeping these fish alive until I can get them some place else. In that light I will sign off with my heartfelt thanks and ultimate gratitude. I've been lucky in that I've only lost one so far, I don't want to add to that number. :)
<I can tell that you have quickly developed into a loving, observant fish-keeper. We need more like you in this hobby. Just continue with those water changes until the Bio-Spira comes in & all will be well. Check that site I gave you for test kits & other varieties of foods.>
Merry Christmas and Happy Holidays!
<Same to you & good luck! ~Jeni>
Shana

Establishing Discus tank   9/20/07
<<Hi. Tom here.>>
I would like to establish a discus only tank.
<<An enviable project!>>
A site online mentioned that it is better to intro other compatible fish first to establish a bio load.
<<If the site is speaking of using other fish to cycle the tank, I’d be very reluctant to use any other information it provides. That practice had its “sunset” at least a decade ago and ‘fishless’ cycling has been around the hobby for much longer than that. Now, in fairness, Discus are very sensitive to water conditions so it could be that the site you’re referring to is recommending adding compatible fish AFTER the tank has cycled to try to minimize the impact on the Discus when they’re introduced. Rather wishful thinking if this is the case since any additional fish will always affect the bio-load to one degree or another. (I highly doubt this is what they were getting at but I’m feeling generous this afternoon. :) )>>
And that the discus should not be introduced for six weeks.
<<That would depend totally on the results of water testing. Six weeks may be more than enough time or, it could just as easily be premature. I doubt there’s a single member of this Crew who’d suggest a specific time frame without benefit of some specific information about the water conditions. Ideally, you would be testing regularly to monitor the rise and fall of ammonia/nitrites in the tank. When only nitrates are detectable, you’re “golden”.>>
Is it possible to obtain the same effect by purchasing bacteria from the LFS?
<<Yes, but I’ll qualify that by saying that the product needs to be BIO-Spira from Marineland. Many off-the-shelf products are largely ineffective at cycling a tank quickly and some are outright wastes of your money.>>
If so, how long should I wait to introduce the fish?
<<No longer than 24 hours and better if within 8-10 hours when using BIO-Spira. The Nitrospira bacteria responsible for nitrifying nitrites are quite slow to reproduce – dismally slow by bacterial standards – and need a source of nitrites rather quickly to remain viable and propagate. The upside, however, is that the tank is about as “instantly cycled” with the use of this product as you can reasonably ask for. However you choose to go about cycling your tank, using live fish for this purpose shouldn’t even be considered an option. Potentially sacrificing life when there are quick, safe and effective methods to accomplish the same thing would be completely irresponsible and cruel. Now, my “soapboxing” aside, I wish you the best of luck with your Discus tank. I’m sure you’ll enjoy the results! Tom>>

Re: establishing Discus tank   7/21/07
Hi again,
<<Greetings again.>>
At the risk of sounding stupid, I need something clarified. After adding the bottled bacteria, can I introduce discus fish?
<<Not a “stupid” question at all. Yes, you can introduce the Discus after adding the bacteria. My apologies for not being clear on that point. Tom>>

New Tank Problems Debating the Next Step... FW... mis-mix, new tank, ammonia...    9/9/07
Hello. I've done quite a bit of research in these last two weeks and have found your site to be the most informative and hopefully helpful. Our situation is probably not an uncommon one, but knowing that doesn't make it any less stressful. Two weeks ago my husband decided to invest major money in a 20 gallon aquarium. Of course since he had kept a few goldfish alive in a small tank years ago, he thought he knew what he was doing. I tried to research, but he didn't give me any time. He bought the tank and set it up on a Saturday night. He wanted to get fish 24 hours later and I tried to convince him to wait but the most he would wait was 48 hours.
<Mmmm, hmm>
During that time I researched the fish he wanted to get and found out that they were cichlids who would need a larger tank or to be an only child virtually. This did not jive with his idea of a tank full of pretty fish so without consulting me he decided to change to buying what he thought would be smaller more peaceful fish, and he bought 9! Mistake number one over stocked tank. Mistake number two, too many fish introduced at once.
Mistake number 3 fish that didn't necessarily go together,
<Yikes!>
2 Kissing Gouramis, 2 Tiger Barbs (which I discovered need to be in a larger group to get along well and not stress out each other or others) 2 Silver Dollars, 1 Bala Shark, 1 Albino Rainbow Shark and 1 Silver Tip catfish.
<Some mix now! The last fish isn't even freshwater...>
We then proceeded to Mistake number 4 overfeeding, he fed them everyday and probably more than he should have. Mistake number 5 was probably the wrong testing kit. Although he wouldn't listen to me and anything I found out on the web, he completely believed the LFS people. They sold him a little testing strip kit,
<Notoriously inaccurate, imprecise>
and although we read about the nitrogen cycle in the tank info, and knew we had to test for ammonia, since ammonia wasn't listed on the test strip we assumed that the PH and ammonia must be the same thing. Not once did the LFS people mention ammonia or testing for it.
<Dismal>
For several days the fish seemed okay, and according to the little strip nitrate and nitrite were okay and PH was 6.5. We did do a small water change and added the conditioner again on day 4 and all was fine. Then we began to notice the one Tiger Barb constantly bullying the other to the point of him hiding and shaking. The gouramis also seemed occasionally stressed by this fast aggressive little guy. Finally we started seeing little white spots on the gouramis and dollars and the more aggressive barb started floating funny so we removed him for a day or so and treated him with Melafix,
<...>
which perked him right up. I researched the spots and discovered it was ICH so we bought copper safe
<!>
and dosed the tank once but had to remove the filter so that the medication would absorb. During the removal of filter for the first time it ripped. Have you noticed I've stopped counting mistakes at this point.
<Yes... and I must commend you... for being so level-headed and such a good recounting>
The white spots did seem to fall off the fish but in my reading I knew that we needed to continue to treat the new water we added for up to a month and to raise the temp to 82 to shorten the cycle of the ICH and catch it at it's most vulnerable. Since we were treating the ICH and Mr. Barb seemed better we added him back to tank.
The next day though (this is by now day 8) we noticed the water started getting murky.
<Cycling...>
We weren't sure if it was the treatment we added or no filter to keep things moving or the natural cycling process. We then noticed the fish sitting on the bottom from time to time not moving much.
However the apparently ineffectual little strips we had from the pet store kept telling us that the nitrate and nitrite were zero and the PH was in normal 6.5 range. We did a small water change and decided to not add any more CopperSafe just in case that was the problem.
<Has to be tested for (copper) to prevent poisoning from overexposure>
We also added the filter back but had to replace the pad that had ripped (Mistake Number ???) because there went any good ammonia eating bacteria we might have accumulated. At this point my husband actually started asking me to see if I could find out what was wrong.
<Yay!>
Apparently research could have a use after all. The fish were starting to gasp, alternating between laying on the bottom and hovering under the surface. With some more research I found from some helpful people that the ammonia was probably our biggest problem. ICH could be worried about later but the ammonia would kill our fish quick. This person finally informed us that the PH and ammonia are NOT the same thing and we needed a separate kit, all of $5.00. We bought this kit the evening of day 11 and found our ammonia was halfway up the chart on 1 By this time our fish were really gasping, even our catfish and Bala were swimming funny when they had seemed the least affected. On this site I found a recommendation to do a huge water change so my husband did that and also siphoned some of the gravel as he had just bought a siphon for the first time as well. That's when he could really see the amount of waste and food that was contributing to our ammonia. He also added AmmoLock to the water as well as the conditioner this time.
The fish perked up a little, but within a few hours were listless again.
However it was late at night and I was gone out of the house, so he didn't do another check like I would have suggested. When I got home at midnight I thought I would ask him about it in the morning and he would tell me he had done another check, and then I would have him do another water change.
However, when I woke up he had gone to play golf. I also discovered one of the fish was missing, which, when he returned from golf he told me was due to a power outage we had in the middle of the night. He things the albino made his way near the filter when it was turned off and somehow got out of the top because he was on the floor this morning.
With him gone and no information I did a test myself and found ammonia still at .50, and the fish were gasping, so I did a 30 percent change adding the conditioner and AmmoLock. Two hours later they weren't looking any better.
Ammonia still said .50 so I attempted a 50 percent change. Then he came home. I told him that I had done a 50 percent change but he thought I meant that morning, so about 2 hours later, while I was gone, he did a 50 percent change. I think all of this change and the ammonia finally drove the fish over the edge, because within 2 hours of this last change, the 2 dollars, the Bala, the catfish, and one Barb all lost the fight.
The 2 gouramis and remaining barb didn't look so well either so he removed them for awhile and decided to do another big water r change, still with the AmmoLock and conditioner, and clean the gravel really well. He then waited and checked the ammonia and it was down to .25. I did finally buy a separate nitrite kit so will test that too instead of believing the zero the little strip test tells me.
So now for the questions.............
Do we put the 2 gouramis and one barb back (even though they are iffy)?
<Mmm, can... I would... along with a fresh pack of a product called BioSpira...>
Do we try to continue to cycle with this tank as is if even one fish makes it and then let it go for a good solid 6 weeks before we even think about adding another fish as we should have done originally?
<Likely a good routine>
If all fish die do we put a new fish in immediately to keep the tank cycling or do we not subject any fish to this crazy toxic tank and clean it our and start fresh?
<Perhaps the latter would/will be best for peace of mind>
Thank you for reading this novel. This aquarium was not my choice, and if it had been or if I had been able to have any input, I would have thoroughly prepared ahead of time and hopefully sidestepped most of these mistakes.
But either way, I can't stand to see a living creature suffering and I really don't want to waste such a huge investment financially and emotionally. Any help is greatly appreciated.
Rea
<Your husband... and the aquatic livestock in both your care is indeed fortunate to have someone as yourself... Intelligent, curious and caring... to look out for their welfare. Unfortunately by the time you discovered the ammonia issue (to be expected) in this small, crowded, ich-infested, mis-stocked mess... doing water changes to dilute the metabolite also forestalled/forestalls the establishment of cycling... Do please keep reading, culturing that husband... and put together a more sustainable mix going forward. Bob Fenner>

Ceramic media, & air pumps FW  – 08/26/07
Hello Neale,
I bought the ceramic cylinders yesterday to be used as filter media. I wanted to ask you how should I place them inside the power filter and how many of then I'm supposed to use? Should I also bury some cylinders in the gravel and use them to jump start an eventual new tank?
I also wanted to ask you if using an air pump inside the tank is really beneficial or not.
As always, thanks a lot for your helpful insights.
Giuseppe
<Greetings Giuseppe. How you use the ceramic media depends somewhat on the design of your filter. Some filters have "compartments" that you stuff with the media of your choice. If this is the case here, place the ceramic media in the last compartment (i.e., the one that water enters last of all) for best results. This will stop it getting clogged with solid waste quickly, allowing the media to perform as biological media better. If your filter doesn't have compartments, then place the media in a media bag (or something similar, like the "foot" from a pair of stockings) and stuff it somewhat after the mechanical filter media (again, so that it doesn't get clogged too quickly). There's no "wrong" way to use media, just more or less efficient ways, so if this all seems to complicated, just cram the ceramic hoops in wherever you can. The filter should have some instructions explaining this. You likely can't use "too much" or the filter won't go back together. As for burying them in the gravel -- pointless. If you have spare, buy another filter and put them in there. Otherwise, leave them somewhere dry to use at another time. The gravel in a tank without an undergravel filter is basically "dead" as far as biological filtration goes, and the ceramic media won't do anything useful and won't get significantly colonised with bacteria. Better to remove 50% of the media from the filter after a few months, and use those to "seed" a new filter in a new aquarium. You can replace up to 50% of the filter media from a mature filter and not lose too much biological filtration capacity. Obviously you add new media after you do this. This process is called "cloning" a filter, and it's how I set up all my tanks, and totally removes the cycling process. Now, as for air pumps: here's the deal. Air pumps don't put oxygen into the water. That's a myth. What they do is improve circulation. By doing this, de-oxygenated water at the bottom of the tank is brought to the surface, where CO2 diffuses out and oxygen diffuses in. That's really all air pumps do. Obviously, an air pump connected to an airstone at the bottom of the tank will be more useful than the same pump connected to an airstone that's bubbling away at the top of the tank. Do you need an airstone? Generally not. A decent filter should be providing adequate circulation on its own. This wasn't always the case in the past, where air-powered filters were common, but modern electric filters generally offer a lot of circulation. The ideal for regular community fish is 4x the volume of the aquarium in turnover per hour. For goldfish, cichlids, plecs, etc. this goes up to around 6-8x per hour, and for marines anything from 10x upwards is required. Your filter should have a "gallons per hour" or "litres per hour" quote on it somewhere; compare this to the volume of the aquarium, and draw your own conclusions as to whether you need to add extra circulation. Cheers, Neale>

Re: Ceramic media, air pumps 9/5/07
Hello Neale,
I checked my q-tank values this morning and I found PH 7.2, Nitrite 0, Nitrates 0 and Ammonia 1. This means that the tank is cycling.
How often should I change water and how much water should I change?
Also, one of the neons is very tiny and doesn't seem to eat. It chews small pieces of flakes and then spits them. All the other fish eat very well.
What do you suggest to do for the small neon?
Thanks in advance for your help,
Giuseppe
<Greetings. Maintain the quarantine tank in exactly the same way as a regular tank, i.e., 25-50% water changes weekly. Obviously don't change the water if you're medicating, at least not unless the instructions say you can. As for the neon, it is normal for them to chew and spit, it's how they process large food items into smaller ones, given they don't have hands! He may well be eating some small bits and spitting out the rest. Regardless, don't stick with one brand of flake. I find having 3-4 different pots of flake food works best. Try and make one pot a vegetarian flake food, such as Spirulina. Alternate between them. Better yet, get some live daphnia or brine shrimp, or use some frozen substitutes. One last thing: flake food loses its "savour" quite quickly. After a couple of months it may be tasteless as far as the fish are concerned. In which case, buying fresh flake might help. Cheers, Neale>

Re: Ceramic media, air pumps 9/5/07
Neale,
I usually feed the fish by changing the type of food at every meal. I use TetraMin flakes, TetraColor flakes, Spirulina flakes, frozen Tubifex worms, freeze dried krill and freeze dried blood worms. As for the neon, I decided to return it to the store and get a healthier fish because all the other fishes eat very aggressively while this one does not seem to eat at all and it's very skinny. So far, except the weak neon, I'm enjoying the new batch of fish and I'm very happy about the Pristella.
Have a great day,
Giuseppe
<The diet you're offering them all sounds very good. You will continue to enjoy the Pristella tetras -- they're very underrated fish with subtle colours, but lots of character and remarkable hardiness. Good luck, and since it's gone 8 PM here in England, it's more a "good night" than "great day"! Cheers, Neale>

Re: New 46 gallon bow front - strong support for fishless cycling method! – 07/23/07
Hello Jorie,
<Hi Robert>
Thanks for the advice, I'll try out the fishless cycling.
<I'm glad to hear that! There's lots of information to be found on this...try a google search and you'll soon find more information that you know what to do with!>
Once that completes I am thinking 4~6 Gourami to start with.
<Sure. My advice regarding stocking is to pick out the one species you really want in the tank, then stock the rest accordingly, based on matching environmental conditions, temperament, etc.>
By that time my books will have come in and I will have read MUCH more of your
website and others.
<What books have you ordered? Hopefully a copy of David E. Boruchowitz's "A Simple Guide to Freshwater Aquariums", as well as the Bailey and Burgess "Tropical Fishlopedia" are both on the list. The former is a great starting-up book, and walks you through setting up the tank pre-cycling on (although, if I remember right, he does advocate using fish to cycle with, which we've already discussed:-)>, and the latter is invaluable for diagnosing/treating disease, when the inevitable does happen...>
How about this time I send links to the plant pictures?
http://www.doryweather.org/~rberry/fish/plants.jpg
<Not sure exactly what that is - some sort of Spathophyllum perhaps?>
And the happy Betta in his heated and filtered tank with a 2" Pleco hiding in the "cave".
http://www.doryweather.org/~rberry/fish/betta_tank.jpg
<Ummm, this is not quite what I had pictured when you said heated/filtered tanks, I hate to say. I was thinking along the lines of a 3 gallon aquarium, complete with wet/dry filtration, a 25 watt submersible heater, etc. Honestly, this setup is not conducive to fish; there can't be more than a half gallon of water. A Betta needs a minimum of 2-3 gallons of water, and the Pleco, obviously, much bigger than that. I do realize that the Pleco situation is temporary, but do get going on the cycling process in the 46 gallon ASAP.>
So, there is the mystery plant from before. The closest I can come is some species of Green Taro. A bog plant which explains why it likes both above and below water.
<You might be correct on this ID...>
Thanks for the link, it got me pointed in the right direction.
<I'm glad to hear this, and glad to help. Keep on reading, researching; you're on the right track!
Best,
Jorie>
--
Robert

Re[2]: New 46 gallon bow front - strong support for fishless cycling method! Plus, unsuitable Betta environment... – 07/23/07
Hello Jorie,
<Hi again,>
One of the books I have ordered is "A Simple Guide to Freshwater Aquariums" and the other is about planted aquariums.
<Excellent. By any chance did you order the Peter Hiscock "Encyclopedia of Planted Aquaria"? That's a great resource...>
Fishless cycling: I am at 1ppm ammonia and 0.5ppm Nitrite, so cycle is proceeding.
<Sounds great. Nitrogen cycle should complete anywhere between 2-4 weeks; just keep testing the water parameters. Don't forget to check for nitrates, also...>
Betta tank... the picture size is misleading I suppose. The glass is 22 inches tall and 12 inches across. With the rocks in there it takes about 8 gallons of water to fill it.
<Better than it looks, I suppose, but still not an ideal setup.>
<Regards, Jorie>
--
Robert

The Nitrogen Cycle isn't Happening   7/13/07
Hello, WWM Crew:
<<Hi, Pete. Tom here.>>
First of all, you have a great informative site that I have found very useful and entertaining to read through.
<<Thanks for this, Pete.>>
I have recently got back into the hobby after an absence of a few years, and things have changed a little bit in that time. Anyway, I set up a new 55 gallon long glass tank about a month ago. It came with a HOB filter that filters 150gph (a bit underfiltered for this system).
<<Sounds nice, Pete, and I agree that it’s underfiltered. If the “claimed” gph is 150, you can figure an actual gph of, perhaps, 70% of that, or about 100-105 gph. Not more than a couple of changes per hour. A bit short of what you want.>>
I waited a day and then added 2 platys to cycle, and then I added 3 more about a week later. Ironically, the next day I came to your site and read about fishless cycling (dang).
<<Well, Pete, now you know. :) >>
About a week ago I put in a small piece of driftwood with an Anubias plant growing in it. Okay, here's my problem: the platys are, of course, doing their part to supply the tank with Ammonia, and boy are they ever. However, the Ammonia just seems to keep going up and up, and I don't think any of the beneficial bacteria is converting it to Nitrite! If I let the tank go without a water change for more than, say, 3-4 days the Ammonia will reach a *way high* 1.0ppm! So here I change about 25% of the water every day, which keeps the Ammonia at a rather steady 0.5ppm (still bad). And through all of this, my Nitrite and Nitrate levels remain at zero, as if the Nitrogen Cycle never even started!
<<Pete, since you’ve investigated (or, at least, come across) fishless cycling, you discovered that one method calls for raising the Ammonia levels to 5 ppm via the addition of pure Ammonia and holding it there until the Nitrites are detectable. Fishless cycling, in its purest form, i.e. no additives but what Mother Nature contributes, can take up to several months. Though Ammonia is one of the largest constituents in our air, there isn’t enough to speed this specific process up much more than this. While I, and your fish, commend you for the water changes, it’s slowing the process. Score yourself some BIO-Spira (Marineland) and you’ll be done in hours. (Don’t you wish you read that first? :))>>
I am rather confused by this and am having trouble figuring out what went wrong; every website I go to assumes that the Nitrogen Cycle WILL happen, and there is no "what if the Nitrogen Cycle never gets started?" section.
<<Not possible for it “not to happen”, Pete. Fire a naked aquarium up and walk away from it for a few months, or so, and BINGO!, you’ve got a cycled tank, more or less. Now, don’t get me totally wrong here. Three Guppies might cause an Ammonia spike, but the beneficial bacteria will have established itself based on the supply of “natural” Ammonia.>>
My filter has those biofilter pads for the bacteria colonies to grow on, and if I look closely at the glass by the filter output I can see fuzzy clearish stuff that blows in the current (small bacteria colonies or algae?).
<<Or, micro-fibers washed from the pads? A bacteria “colony” in the tank normally displays itself as “cloudy” (milky-colored) water. Not what you want to see. Nitrosomonas bacteria won’t be visible to the naked eye, however.>>
And yet, my Ammonia remains sky high with no Nitrite or Nitrate production. The water is clear and my fish act normally, but I
know that they must be suffering silently!
<<Almost assuredly. Half of your levels can be lethal.>>
I am stumped at this point. Surely there should be some indication that the Nitrogen Cycle has at least started by now! Am I missing something glaringly obvious?
<<One thing, in a kick-it-around vein, might be to check out your pH levels. Most kits test for “total” Ammonia. A combination of NH3 (Ammonia) and NH4 (Ammonium). At low pH levels, a “high” reading of so-called Ammonia might be detecting almost insignificant levels of NH3 but high levels of NH4 (less toxic to fish). The reagent doesn’t differentiate between the two. In fact, actual Ammonia levels might be next to undetectable (if tested for this specific) while the presence of Ammonium could be giving you your high readings. (Based on charts that I’ve seen, true Ammonia levels are almost ridiculously low compared to Ammonium levels – depending on how low pH levels are.) Thinking out loud here.>>
Should I just dump some Bio-Spira in there and be done with it?
<<I would, unless you’re really intent on the “puzzle”.>>
Please let me know; I am as curious as I am impatient about what is going on in my tank!
<<Since you mention “impatience”, Pete, go with the BIO-Spira. Save the research/investigation for another time.>>
Thank you kindly,
Pete
<<Interesting post, Pete. Nice “chatting” and welcome back to the hobby! Best regards. Tom>>

Re: The Nitrogen Cycle isn't Happening   7/13/07
Thanks, Tom!
<<You’re very welcome, Pete.>>
As accomplished as I would feel if my tank were to cycle on its own, my impatience and compassion for my poor fish wins out.
<<Completely understood.>>
I will attempt to locate some Bio-Spira after work today. By the way, my pH is actually rather high (7.6) so I'm thinking that my Ammonia tester is indeed picking up on the bad kind of Ammonia (NH3). I am surprised that the fish seem so unaffected by what is clearly a toxic environment.
<<As am I but, the water changes are, no doubt, aiding the cause.>>
To my surprise (during yesterday's water change) I noticed several tiny platy fry swimming around by my driftwood. They feed and dart around actively, and hardly seem to be dying of ammonia poisoning.
<<I’m not very often surprised, Pete, but this one does it! Given that fry, of any species, require optimal water conditions, it’s nothing short of amazing.>>
But anyway, this all seems a moot point now, since I plan on getting the Bio-Spira today.
<<Excellent. You won’t be disappointed.>>
Thanks again for your help; I'm sure I will have an opportunity to investigate this type of situation in the future.
<<Happy to help any time, Pete. Best regards. Tom>>

Water Changes Affecting Cycle, FW  – 06/15/07
Hi Crew,
<Hello.>
Just a quick question about water changes and cycling.
<OK.>
I was on a forum the other night and someone asked a question about cycling his freshwater tank. The L.F.S. he had purchased the tank from had unfortunately sold him 4 fish at the same time as the new tank.
<Common problem. Actually, depends on the size of the tank and the fish being bought. Four mollies to mature a 55 gallon fish-only marine tank would work rather well. But four mollies in a 20 gallon freshwater tank would be a disaster.>
The person had to his credit, realised he was in trouble and read up on cycling. He had then managed to source a mature filter pad from one of his friends.
<In theory this works very well. It's called "cloning" a filter, and it's my preferred method. But you do need to be moving the mature media from one tank to another without killing the bacteria by drying them out or shocking them water chemistry changes.>
He said that he had seen a nitrate spike after ammonia and nitrite had appeared and was wondering whether this confirmed his tank was cycling.
<Nitrate (and indeed ammonia/nitrite) levels are almost never the nice smooth curves you see in aquarium books. There's fluctuations to them for a variety of factors. In other words, provided the ammonia and nitrite stay at zero, and your nitrate level stays below some danger value (realistically, around 50-100 mg/l for most freshwater fish) then there isn't any real reason to worry about the precise value or how it compared to the reading you got last week.>
I replied telling him that indeed this did mean his tank was in the process of cycling and it was a good sign. I told him to carry on performing his scheduled water changes, and gave him a list of symptoms of stress to watch out for.
<Very good.>
I told him to observe, and if he noticed any signs of stress, perform a large water change.
<Correct.>
This is where the question comes. I then told him that the emergency water change may slow the cycle slightly, but was not significant and was preferable to sick or even dead fish!
<Absolutely.>
I checked the post a few hours later and one of the moderator's had posted a reply after me stating that 'water changes will NOT AFFECT THE CYCLE'.
<Almost certainly correct.>
I replied stating that a large water change would decrease the available nutrients for the bacteria and therefore would marginally affect the cycling time.
<Hmm... not convinced. The multiplication of bacteria depends on other things than just ammonia/nitrite availability, such as time, temperature, pH, oxygen, surface area of the media, etc. In other words, there's the biological law that processes are restricted by the thing in least supply. If the bacteria haven't had time to reach maximum population size, then it doesn't really matter if they have 0.25 mg/l ammonia to play with or 25 mg/l ammonia. Fundamentally, you're looking at a process that is constantly changing. The ammonia and nitrite in the water are the stuff the bacteria *haven't* had time to use. They're "leftovers" if you will. If you remove 50% or 75% of the water and so dilute these leftovers, the bacteria aren't going to starve. The fish are constantly producing more ammonia, and the nitrifying bacteria are producing more nitrite in due course. Think of it like a conveyor belt in a sushi bar: even if you take away most of the dishes on the conveyor belt at once, the sushi chef will be adding new ones all the time, so before long the belt will be filled up again, and the diners won't be hungry. They might have to wait a little longer to get the exact dish they want, but they won't starve.>
He replied stating that the bacteria have a limited reproductive rate, and that a concentration of 0.25 ppm ammonia, would be no different than a concentration of 3.00 ppm ammonia, with regards to cycling speed.
<I'd be dubious about actual values, but in terms of theory, this makes sense.>
I decided to leave it at that as I didn't really want to enter into an argument. However I am interested to know whether I was right or wrong.
<I'd tend towards agreeing with the moderator.>
I have seen members of the WWM crew state that water changes will slow the cycle and was wondering if any of them have a reasoning behind this statement or whether it is from gathered experience.
<Water changes are good, even during cycling, and are critical if you're cycling with fish. Anything above ammonia = 0.25 mg/ is lethal to fish, so you have to do water changes at that point anyway. Any possibly benefits of leaving the ammonia at higher levels will be more than offset by the sick fish. So while an interesting academic discussion, in sheer practical terms somewhat irrelevant.>
I look forward to your views/opinions.
Thanks and keep up the good work,
Matt.
<All very interesting. Thanks for sharing. Cheers, Neale>

5 Gallon Tank... set-up, cycling...  03/25/07
Dear WWM,
Thanks for all of the valuable information provided on your website.  I've learned soo very much!
<<Happy to be here.>>  
My fiancé and I have decided to have a small 5 gallon tank for our kitchen bar area.  We purchased the eclipse hex 5 (hexagon), set it up about a week ago and let it run with conditioned water.  Then we purchased two small zebra danios at acceptable ammonia levels as tested at PetSmart.
<<The reason you had no ammonia reading is that your tank had not yet begun to cycle. It needs an ammonia source first to begin the cycle. I never recommend using fish for this.  Please read on WWM re freshwater nitrogen cycle.>>>>
After having them in the tank for two days the water tested slightly high on the ammonia but I was assured that if I used the ammonia remover as directed adding an additional fish would be fine.
<<Wrong.  Ammonia remover is dealing with ammonia you have in your tank due to it being uncycled, does nothing to improve the health of your tank, and certainly does not make it ready for the addition of more fish.  Large daily water changes are needed until the tank cycles, along with adding seeding media to the filter.>>
We had decided eventually to add one Dalmatian molly and three male fancy guppies.  A pleco wasn't advised as its waste would override its cleansing abilities per what seemed the extremely helpful and educated PetSmart rep.
<<Not to mention most get feet in length.  I don’t know that your stocking is well thought-out.>>
Anyways, the Dalmatian molly went in yesterday and today (after one ammonia treatment yesterday and one again this morning...as directed)...the ammonia levels are at 0.5 on the color card, which I've been told is on the lower side and ok.
<<No, that’s not ok.  In a cycled tank, ammonia and nitrite are ZERO at all times.>>
In a few days, we are considering adding either 3 male fancy guppies OR two platys...not sure whether to get males or females.
<<No more fish for this tank, please.>>
Also, our one Molly is very active.. swims up and down against the aquarium often.  He (I say this because there is a gonopodium.. as learned on your site) shivers for brief periods so I've tried adding some aquarium salt...literally an hour ago so haven't seen any difference yet.  I had only added about a teaspoon previously but read that for mollies, more may be helpful, so another two teaspoons have been added.
<<Other fish may not appreciate this.  Do reconsider how you stock your tank, making sure all are compatible.  A schooling species is not recommended for such a tiny tank. >>
Please advise... two platys or three guppies?  Which gender is more appropriate?  Does this Molly's behaviour indicate we should not add any more fish??
<<The fact that your tank is not cycled is why you should not add any more fish.>>
Thanks so much for your insight!  We look forward to keeping our fish for long and healthy, happy lives!
-Lisa and Rich B
<<Good luck with your pets. Lisa Brown.>>

Re: 5 Gallon Tank  03/26/07
Hi Lisa,
Thanks for the prompt reply.
<<My pleasure.>>
We researched online at various professional websites and also discussed the stocking of our tank with three people who seemed to be well educated in fish, one at an aquarium shop and two at PetSmart before stocking our tank.  The only consistency was that danios, mollies, and guppies were compatible fish and that these three were the best for our sized tank.  We also considered tetras but found that they tend to bully the others.
<<I stated no more fish due to the fact that it is not cycled, and commented on schooling species as there is not enough room in a 5 hex.  They are compatible, but the danios are not a good choice for this tank.>>
We also have a biofilter which was supposed to get things going. is there a brand of seeding material you recommend to add to this?
<<A bio-filter piece in a filter is simply a spot for the nitrifying bacteria to grow.  Seeded filter media from an established tank, Bio-Spira and large water changes are the only things I would recommend here.>>
Also the first test did indeed show low ammonia, prior to placing the fish in...at least that's what they told us.
<<No fish should be placed in a system reading ammonia.>>
Im very disappointed in the reply as we love watching this molly and looked forward to giving it the chance to interact with one or a couple others.  This is the third fishtank I've owned and have always done well in the past without doing water testing at all (a miracle I guess).  Its amazing how much goes into this when your trying your best to do it right....  and yet Im still wrong after weeks of reading/researching.
Sadly, LB
<<No need to be sad, just get on the water changing/testing. Lisa Brown.>>

Re: 5 Gallon Tank  3/30/07
Hello again,
I did the first partial water change last night (about a third) and the ammonia levels have dropped some...test color closer to yellow.
<<Do these everyday until it stays at 0.>>
  Will pick up some seeding material (Bio Spira) within a few days, and do another change tonight.
<<Seeding material is something like a filter from an established tank. Bio-Spira is a great product too.>>
  Again thanks for your help.  Once I get the tank properly cycled, would it be ok to add a few fancy guppies or a couple platys?  If not what would you recommend?
-LB
<<No problem.  I think a few fancy guppies would be a nice addition (in time) to your tank. Lisa Brown.>>

Re: 5 Gallon Tank 7/4/2007
Our water has tested at 0 for about three days now without the bio Spira.
<<Without, as in you did not add it at all?>>
I did two water changes (about half the tank) with new treated water.
<<Wait a few days without doing water changes to test your water.  Be sure you are testing for nitrites, as they rise after ammonia.  Very important.>>
Our fish already in there are doing fine except the zebra danio bullies the other danio (blue something).  The other danio is always hiding in the plants and anytime he/she peeks out the zebra chases him back into the plants.  Since this zebra guy is such a butt...would the platys be better?
<<As I said before, a schooling fish like Danios is not a good choice for your tank.  Please do heed advice :).>>
I don't want him/her to pick on little guppies...  Or would having three guppies (outnumbering the danio) be ok?
<<Guppies are a better choice than Danios.  Try to get more females than males.>>
Thanks for all your help...
No longer sad,
LB
<<Glad to help.  Lisa Brown.>>

Cycling a Freshwater Tank  3/22/07
Well this seems to be a unique situation...
<Well Kevin, Pufferpunk here, lets see if we can remedy this.>
I started a new 75 gallon tank (freshwater) less than two weeks ago.
Substrate, rocks, fake plants, water. Treated the water with Amquel to remove chlorine (back to that later) according to directions on the container. Waited a couple of days to make sure temperature and pH was stable and within target range.  Went to a reputable fish store, bought 9 Head and Tail Light Tetras to cycle the tank with. Put them in a bucket and added a bit of aquarium water every few minutes, then netted them into the tank. Didn't feed them for a couple of days. After some initial fear they now seem quite
content and healthy. Now feeding them a little, twice a day.  I've been measuring the ammonia level every day and every day its
0ppm. I use a liquid test kit (salicylate based I believe). So I'm not getting my cycling going! Wondering if I put too much Amquel in to start and that keeps breaking down the ammonia? I have no other explanation.  Fish seem fine, but I'm not accomplishing what I want to do (i.e. cycle the tank!). Help!
<First of all, it is not good to be cycling a tank with fish at all.  It is harmful to the fish & takes much longer than fishless cycling.
See: http://www.thepufferforum.com/forum/library/water-filtration/fishless-cycling/
The few fish you have in there will not produce enough ammonia in a large, 75g tank, to test anything.  When you fishless cycle, you can fully stock your tank when it's done.  You can fully stock your tank when you instant-cycle with a product called, Bio-Spira, too.  Also, you may have messed things up by adding an ammonia-remover, like Amquel.  Better to use Prime, as it detoxifies the ammonia but leaves it usable for the bacteria to eat.  ~PP>
Thanks, Kevin

Freshwater lighting for tall tank; other planted tank issues. Not to mention, a plug for fishless cycling!   3/2/07
Hi there.  
<Well hello!>
I have a 20x18x30 47gallon column tank I've almost got ready to get cycling (freshwater), and the last issue I have is lighting.  
<Yes, these taller tanks can prove challenging in this regard. I myself have a 44 gal. pentagon shaped tank that is 23" high. I had a heck of a time finding a suitable power compact (PC) fixture for it, but I eventually did.  JBJ makes a fixture that's 20" wide, and holds 2 36-watt PC bulbs. That's the best solution I was able to come up with.>
I'd like to keep some live plants in it (6-8 plants maybe?), both at the bottom and at various heights on a rock wall I've built up.
<Keep in mind that generally, the more plants you have, the less algae you'll have - the plants use up the nutrients before the algae get a chance to! But, of course, and as you realize, it's challenging to find the right plants for such tanks.  I've had success with anubias, Aponogetons, crypts and swords. For a great planted tank resource, check out Peter Hiscock's Encyclopedia of Aquarium Plants" - this will tell you everything you wanted to know (and more!) about proper substrate, lighting, fertilization, etc.>
The tank came with a cheap light fixture housing one 16W bulb.  I'm assuming this will not be appropriate for any kind of variety of plants, especially ones at the bottom, correct?
<You are correct. If you want to grow anything, you'll have to  upgrade to at least a power compact fixture.>
  Everything I've read says generally 3-5 watts per gallon, and/or 30 watts per sq. ft. of surface space.
<3-5 watts per gallon (WPG) is a pretty broad range, as aquarium plant lighting is concerned.  Generally, 1-2 WPG = low; 3-4 = medium, and 5+ = high.  The plants I named above (most species of them, at least) are all have low to medium-low light requirements.>
  Obviously this column tank throws all that out the window I'm sure, but using that as a rough guide, I would need anywhere from 75-235W, if not more because of the depth, and I just have no idea what exactly I would need.  Also, I don't need to be keeping plants that require the most light, but maybe ones that are at least the middle of the road in that regard.  I'd like a decent variety to be able to choose from.
<I understand, but honestly, it's a bit of a challenge.  In retrospect, I probably wouldn't try to plant a taller tank, but sometimes you just work with what you've