Can you please help me cure my ich. 1/6/07
<<Hello, Chris. Tom with you this time.>>
Can you please help me cure my ich.
<<Likely your fish have Ich, Chris. If you’ve got it, we’re in trouble. :) >>
I have a 10 gallon tank that we purchased the day before Christmas. We have 1
Oranda, 1 calico fantail and 1 gold fantail.
<<The tank’s too small for these fish, Chris. Aside from that, it’s highly
unlikely that your tank could have “cycled” in this short period of time. In all
probability, they’re dealing with high levels of ammonia and/or nitrites.
Potentially both. Not a good situation.>>
The 2 fantail’s came down with ich and the case seems pretty severe. It is all
over their bodies. As soon as I noticed the bumps I went out and got Quick Cure.
I have been adding 10 drops once a day like the instructions say, but nothing
appears to be getting better. I have changed out 20% of the water yesterday
which was day 3. Today is day 4 and the instructions say to not use but 3
times. What should I do? I have taken out the carbon filter and left it out.
<<Skip the Quick Cure for the time being and do a massive – 90% - water change.
If you have a heater, slowly raise the temperature up to 80 degrees. If you
don’t have a heater, get one. At the same time, purchase some aquarium salt. In
conjunction with the water change, add aquarium salt to the new water, along
with a good water conditioner. The final destination here is to have a ratio of
three tablespoons of salt per gallon of aquarium water and a temperature of, at
least, 80 degrees. The salt will kill the juvenile parasites and the elevated
temperature will speed up the life-cycle of the Ich so that the salt can do its
job. (Only works on the juvenile stage of the critters. The adults – the ones on
the fish and the ones encysted at the bottom of your tank - are immune to
anything.)>>
The 2 fantails are only active when it is eating time now. That is not usual
for them. 1 of them appears to not like the light and hides out often…then came
the ick so I think the light stressed the fish out and it spread. I don’t have
a vacuum for the tank. Should I get one?
<<Absolutely. When you do the water changes, you’ll need to vacuum the bottom of
the tank heavily to try to get as many of the parasites before they break out
and go searching for a host, i.e. your fish. Much to be learned, Chris. Wish I
could offer you a “silver bullet” here but you’ve gotten yourself, and your
fish, into a bit of a pickle. You need to get this tank cycled and, not to
impugn a Christmas present, upgraded to, at least, 30-40 gallons if you want to
keep the Goldfish. Two tanks are better anyway, and we can help make sure the
ten-gallon tank won’t be wasted. As a final recommendation (as if you wanted
one!) get yourself a water test kit and test your parameters religiously. You’re
“flying blind” right now and can only guess at what’s going on in the tank.
Guessing ain’t good. You need to know what the ammonia and nitrite levels are
along with pH and nitrate levels. The first two are most critical as these will
stress or even kill your fish. Hang in there, Chris. These things just got out
of order. Otherwise, you’d only (casually) be looking for an upgrade to your
current tank.>>
Thank you,
Chris Dickert
<<Please get back if you have further questions. In the meantime, I wish you
success and good luck. Tom>>
Re: ich... How do I control the ammonia & nitrate levels? 1/7/07
<<Hello, Chris.>>
How do I control the ammonia & nitrate levels?
<<Let’s do this first, Chris. The nitrogen cycle goes like this: ammonia ->
nitrites -> nitrates. So, it’s actually the ammonia and nitrites that you need,
immediately, to be concerned about. Those are the serious toxins in the tank.
The nitrates are the “caboose” of the nitrogen cycle, so to speak, and will be
handled with regular, small water changes after the tank cycles. Normal
maintenance stuff. (That’s down the road, though.)>>
When I do the massive water overhaul what do I do with the fish? Do I leave
them in the 10%? Will this shock the fish? Should I take them out and clean
the entire tank and start over?
<<All of this can be simplified to where you wondered why you were worried to
begin with (beyond the “obvious” problem, of course). Purchase a five-gallon
bucket from your local hardware (Home Depot, Lowe’s or even the LFS). Give it a
good cleaning in hot water with a little bleach and rinse it thoroughly. Siphon
five gallons of water out of the tank. (The fish will be fine for this very
short time.) Add in the fresh, conditioned water and you’ve just cut the
polluted solution to 50% of its original toxin level. Repeat. You’ve cut it to
25% of the original. Repeat. You’ve cut it to 12.5% of the original. One more
time and you’re at 6.25% of the original toxin level. In short, with four
five-gallon changes, you’ve effectively performed a 93.75% water change.
(Rigorously speaking, this isn’t 100% accurate. It presupposes that the ammonia
and nitrites remaining after each five-gallon water change instantly mix into
100% of the tank water. Real people terms? Close enough! ;) ) Now, assuming
we’re starting from scratch on the aquarium salt, If you dissolve in 4-6
tablespoons with the last five-gallon change (completely dissolved, by the way),
you’ll bring the cumulative salt level to 2-3 tablespoons per five gallons in
the tank. Lots of labor but no ‘rocket science’ here.>>
I took some water by the local wet pets and they said the ammonia was high but
it was normal since it hasn’t cycled thru.
<<Uh huh. Same as saying it’s normal for all of your bones to be broken because
you dove, head-first, into the Grand Canyon. Ammonia and nitrite poisoning kill
fish in a painful and ugly way. Plain and simple. At the low end of the
spectrum, this contributes to stress promoting infestations like Ich due to the
lowering of the fish’s immune system. Sound familiar? I’m not picking on you but
the fact that the folks you spoke to didn’t give you the same information that I
just did “bothers” me! On the lighter side, I guess it would put me out of work,
eh? :) >>
How do the ammonia levels get out of hand?
<<In your case, they haven’t gotten “out of hand”, Chris. Just part of the
natural process of cycling an aquarium. The beneficial bacteria that feed on
ammonia, and nitrites, just haven’t had time to populate your tank adequately to
keep the levels where they need to be, which is at zero. Can take some time,
weeks, in fact, depending on how you go about it. Once things get squared away
and, you’ve taken some time to do some research, this will all seem like a
no-brainer. Trust me. In the meantime, keep me posted, if you will. Tom>>
Re: ich 1/7/07
<<Hello, Chris.>>
Before I received this email back from you I completed the 90% overhaul of the
tank. I went out and purchased a vacuum along with a ph balancer, ammonia
stripe test, a heater, and something called "cycle."
<<Chemically treating for a specific pH level is a crapshoot, Chris. It’s
generally considered best, by today’s standards, to acclimate the fish to the pH
of the water you have readily available. The thinking here is that keeping the
pH stable is far better in the long run, whether it’s “optimal” or not, than to
tinker and potentially send it swinging back and forth. Changes in pH are what
endangers the fish far more than holding it steady above or below the ideal. As
for the Cycle product, it’s not going to do the deed for you. There’s only one
product of this type that I or, any of the rest of us here, would recommend for
“instantly” cycling a tank and that’s BIO-Spira from Marineland. This product
must be kept refrigerated as it contains live bacteria, Nitrosomonas bacteria to
control ammonia and Nitrospira bacteria for the nitrites.>>
I took 1 gallon out of the tank and put it in a 1 gallon bowl with the 2 fish.
They are really looking weak.
<<Sorry to hear this but it doesn’t come as a surprise given the
circumstances.>>
I added 2 tablespoons of salt to the tank (as the directions said to add 1
rounded tablespoon per 5 gallons) and I added 90% of a teaspoon of aqua safe
(for the chlorine).
<<Okay. No real need to be too precise on the conditioner since you can’t
overdose the tank with it but, so far, so good.>>
I went ahead and installed the heater and added a dose of cure all (for the ich)
even though the fish are in the 1 gallon tank.
<<The medication and/or salt only works on the parasites in the juvenile stage,
anyway, i.e. the ones that have burst out of the cysts at the bottom of the
tank.>>
I lost the Oranda yesterday.
<<Sorry, Chris.>>
I tested the ammonia in the 1 gallon bowl and it is on the "danger"-worst
mark.
<<Understandable.>>
I tested the new water in the 10 gallon tank and it says "stress."
<<An improvement, anyway.>>
By the way, my wife won't let me get a bigger tank than 10 gallon. She about
freaked when I got it for Christmas. She was thinking a Betta in a bowl.
<<If we can’t get this squared away…fast…she might just get her wish.>>
One of the fantails appears to be sloshing the white stuff off her coat, but
they are definitely looking like sloth's....hardly moving...just breathing.
Should I introduce them back to the tank or hang it up.
<<Into the 10-gallon ASAP! Do NOT dump the water from the bowl into the tank.
Likely it has parasites in it that have dropped off the fish. The salt will
assist their breathing though there’s no way to tell, from my end, what kind of
damage the ammonia may have done to the gills. It will also help in the healing
of the wounds on the fish where the parasites were buried in their flesh.
Whatever kind of “math” you have to do to keep the salt levels, at least, where
they are now, along with the Ich medication, you’re going to have to perform
additional water changes, the way I suggested in my last e-mail, to get the
ammonia levels down to as low a level as humanly possible. Three a day if that’s
what it takes. (If the salt levels go high, this won’t be a problem as you
probably noted from our last correspondence.) As long as those fish are alive,
“hanging it up” is not an option. Tom>>
Re: ich 1/8/07
<<Hi, Chris.>>
Thank you, Tom, for all the feedback you have given me.
<<Not a problem at all.>>
Unfortunately the 3 fish have now passed. It's very sad to see that happen.
<<Agreed. No life is “disposable”.>>
I emptied the tank out and washed off the rocks and every item in the tank with
hot water.
<<Sounds good.>>
I put everything back together and am now in the 24-hour break-in period.
<<”Break-in” period for what, Chris?>>
I am not going to introduce any fish until tomorrow.
<<No, Chris, you’re not going to introduce any fish tomorrow! That tank is,
effectively, brand new. It needs to cycle! The fact that it didn’t is what
killed your Goldfish. We’re going to do this right this time.>>
I was thinking about a couple of tetras. What do you think?
<<I think that you and I have to talk about how to properly cycle an aquarium so
that “any” fish you introduce don’t die. I want you in the hobby for a very long
time and the fastest way to leave it is to keep losing fish unnecessarily.>>
I want to break the tank in the right way this time without any fish that might
stress like the gold fish.
<<Good start, Chris, and it means cycling the tank “without” fish. When you put
your next “guys” in there, it’ll be ready and safe for them.>>
My little boy keeps asking about Nemo and it is wearing me out.
<<Understood. You can’t imagine what I put up with around my house!>>
I have to get it right this time.
<<You’re going to.>>
Do you suggest that I get that cycle stuff that you have to refrigerate?
<<If you’re speaking of the BIO-Spira, absolutely. Get a small filter, if you
don’t have one already (an AquaClear Mini would do well), and add the BIO-Spira
according to the directions. Do this in the morning, and, by the afternoon, you
can add your Tetras. A few Corydoras (itsy-bitsy Catfish, for lack of a better
way to put it) will also do very well in your 10-gallon tank. No salt, though.
Catfish (scaleless fish) don’t tolerate salt well.>>
Any other advice?
<<Yes. Add your fish sparingly. Once your tank is established, the beneficial
bacteria reach a type of equilibrium with the ammonia and nitrites produced. Too
many fish at one time (you don’t have that much room, anyway) will upset the
balance resulting in what’s known as a “spike”. (Back, potentially, to the
Goldfish situation.) Take your time! This is for the long-haul. Beyond that,
teach your little guy the right way to care for fish. So very much to learn,
Chris, and very rewarding.>>
Thanks for all the help.
<<You know where to find me, Chris. My best to you. Tom>>
Re: ich
1/9/07
<<Hi, Chris.>>
Would you recommend putting the Bio-Spira in before I add any fish?
<<Yes, but the irony (if you want to call it that) is that you’ll need to add
fish almost immediately, within 24 hours of adding the bacteria and preferably
within about 12 hours. The fish will continue to feed the bacteria with ammonia
or else you’ll get die-off of most, if not all, of an expensive dose of
BIO-Spira.>>
Can the tank cycle without fish?
<<Oh, heavens, yes! Any source of ammonia will help to seed/feed the
bio-colonies. Many folks use raw seafood, for example. Shrimp are probably the
most popular of these sources. Regular old fish food will also do the trick. If
you’d like to take this to a higher level, you can add pure ammonia – not the
typical household cleaner variety. Should be able to find the pure stuff at a
hardware store. (For our purposes, the cheaper the ammonia is, i.e. no special
additives to drive the price up, the better. If it isn’t 100% pure ammonia,
don’t get it. Might also go by pure ammonium hydroxide, for what it's worth.)
You’ll want to spend some money on a decent test kit, though. The progress of
the cycling is rapidly increased using the pure ammonia method and if you don’t
test the water regularly it’s like trying to lose 10 pounds of weight without
ever weighing yourself to see when you accomplished your goal. On a parting
note, if you count yourself as a patient guy, this is a much cheaper way to go
than the BIO-Spira (sorry Marineland). Still pretty quick, however. Be talking.
Tom (P.S. Chris, if you would, toss my name in at the beginning of posts you
want directed specifically to me. Makes the mail easier to direct on our end.
Thanks.>>
Re: ich
1/9/07
<<Hey, Chris.>>
Thanks Tom.
<<No problem.>>
I was told that you had to let the tank sit for 24 hours before bringing any
fish into the environment.
<<By folks who haven’t stayed on top of their game, Chris. “Old school”. We’ve
learned to cycle without taking/endangering life in the process.>>
I will look for the Bio-Spira before I even consider bringing home some
tetras. I already added aquarium salt figuring that if there was any leftover
Ich in the rocks that it would hopefully kill the left over.
<<If the juveniles don’t find a host in a short time, they’ll die, Chris. I like
the addition of the salt, anyway. A little “payback”, if you will. :)>>
I will wait until you give me the go ahead for the new fish. Where can I find
some Bio-Spira?
<<Any good fish store should carry the product. I wouldn’t bother with the
“chain stores”. BIO-Spira is pricey (sorry) and I know, for a fact, that my
local PetSmart, for example, doesn’t carry it. My regular LFS does,
however…which is why it’s my regular LFS, among other reasons. You could buy it
online if all else fails.>>
Will it by in the local wet-pets fish store?
<<Could be, Chris. Give them a quick phone call.>>
I have checked the pH a couple of times and it is in the safe area right now.
<<Good.>>
I would like to eventually get back to a couple of goldfish because my son takes
to them, but for now and the next while (months) or however long it takes to do
this right I will go with whatever you recommend.
<<I don’t like to seem like I missed something since we last spoke but did we
lose the Fantails, Chris? (I suspect, sadly, that we did. If so, I’m very
sorry.) Okay. The bottom line is that we have to get the tank cycled. Plain and
simple. Best to get a test kit to keep an eye on this yourself. Easy way to go
about this? When you start to detect nitrates, things are moving in the right
direction. It means that the bacteria are doing their job. Get the ammonia and
nitrites to zero, nitrates <20 and we’re “golden”. (Eventually, the nitrates may
hit zero as well but that will come with time. No need to wait that long.) The
nitrates are going to be the key for you. When those are detectable, it means
that both sets of bacteria are working in your tank. From there, you can slowly
add your new fish. Now, wasn’t that easy? :) Best of luck, my friend. I’ll be
here if the need arises. Tom>> |
