|
| FAQs on pH, Alkalinity, Acidity 4
Related Articles: pH, alkalinity 1,
In praise of hard
water; How hard, alkaline water can be a blessing in disguise by Neale
Monks, Treating Tap
Water,
A practical approach to freshwater aquarium water
chemistry by Neale Monks,
The Soft Water Aquarium: Risks and Benefits
by Neale Monks,
Freshwater Maintenance,
Treating Tap water for Aquarium Use,
Related FAQs: pH, Alkalinity,
Acidity 1,
pH, Alkalinity, Acidity 2,
pH, Alkalinity 3,
pH, & FAQs on:
FW pH/Alkalinity Science,
pH/Alkalinity Measure,
pH/Alkalinity Adjustment,
pH/Alkalinity Products,
pH/Alkalinity Anomalies/Fixing, &
Water Hardness,
Freshwater Aquarium Water Quality,
Treating Tap Water for Aquarium Use,
Freshwater Algae Control,
Algae Control, Foods, Feeding, Aquatic
Nutrition,
Disease,
|
Big fishes, wastes, alkalinity... pH drops! |
Alkalinity 2/209
Can you tell me the best way to lower alkalinity. My LFS is experiencing
the same difficulty, he says it is our tap water. I'm running a RO unit
that according to the LFS contributes to the problem.
<What? No...
reverse osmosis devices remove almost all molecular contribution to
alkalinity... given they are working!>
Any advice would be
greatly appreciated as always.
Thank you very much,
Pat
<Mmm,
dilution with water of lower alkalinity (GH, dKH)... Bob Fenner>
New tank; cloudy water, pH issues, some fish ideas 1/24/09
Hi,
I'm new to this site and i really do love it. It is so addicting to
explore it. However, i do have a question that i hope was not answered before.
<Thanks for the kind words.>
1) I just set up a new tank and it is being
cycled. How long will it take for the tank to start fogging up? I bought a 45
gallon square tank with a reasonable price. I also added filter media from
another established tank to help speed up the process. It has been set up for
about 3 days now.
<Can take some days. Cloudiness is caused by three things.
Most commonly, it's silt, meaning you haven't washed the sand/gravel properly.
The water looks milky or like cloudy lemonade. This is a really common problem,
and happens all the time. Water changes and cleaning/replacing the mechanical
media (filter floss or fine sponges) will help. There are products called
"filter aids" that are flocculants and cause silt particles to clump, making
them easier for the filter to remove. By all means use one of these if you want.
They probably shouldn't be used all the time, but in situations like this,
appear to be safe to both fish and filter bacteria.
The second most common
reason for cloudiness is a diatom bloom. This gives the water a brown-gold
colour. Again, this is usually a one-off problem, though it may come and go
through the first few weeks or months. Usually settles down by itself. Adding
fast-growing plants, particularly floating plants, will help because these tend
to suppress the growth of algae quite dramatically. Finally, there are bacterial
blooms. These can be various colours, but typically milky-grey. These are rare
and usually indicate some fundamental problem with the tank, e.g., overstocking
or under-filtering.
The solution is to fix the aquarium!>
2) What do you recommend i put in
there? My tap water is soft and very acidic. I believe it is 6.2-6.5.
<That's
pretty good water for fish from softwater habitats. So things like tetras and
dwarf cichlids will do especially well. On the other hand, fish from hardwater
habitats like Livebearers and many Rainbowfish will be miserable. Do have a read
of this:
http://www.wetwebmedia.com/FWSubWebIndex/fwsoftness.htm
In particular
understand that soft water tends to be prone to pH changes, so it is important
to either use a buffer (such as a "pH fixing" product) or else keep tabs on pH
and perform very regular water changes so that any drops in pH are minimal
between those water changes. If you have soft water, I'd perhaps be looking at
(among other fish) things like Cardinals, Glowlight tetras, Emperor tetras,
Lemon tetras, Silver Hatchetfish, X-ray tetras, Golden Pencilfish (Nannostomus
beckfordi), Corydoras aeneus, Corydoras panda, Corydoras sterbai, Kuhli loaches,
Whiptail catfish, Apistogramma cacatuoides, Glassfish, Peacock gobies
(Tateurndina ocellicauda) and Bristlenose Plecs (Ancistrus spp.). All these fish
are reasonably hardy, will coexist with one another, and can be maintained at 25
C/77 F safely. I've deliberately left off a few fish that either need cooler
water (Neons and Danios for example); warmer water (Rams, Mikrogeophagus
ramirezi); tend to be aggressive and/or predatory (like Three-spot Gouramis and
Angels); or are otherwise difficult to keep because of disease issues (Dwarf
Gouramis, Neons, and Mikrogeophagus ramirezi).>
I have kept fishes before and
i decided to give it another try. Thanks.
<Good luck, Neale.>
Re: pH problems 1/26/09
Good Evening Neale,
<Mmm, Neale
is unfortunately "out" till Weds.. I will try to help you here>
Thank you
very much for your excellent advice and your wonderful website,
I have been
reading about pH and KH and how it buffers and keeps the pH stable. The problem
is with a every water change KH starts to go down, haven't figured out why as
yet as the KH of the tap water is 120 ppm and after four water changes it slips
below 80ppm.
<This change is "natural"... Fish tanks/systems are typically
"reductive" (as in Reduction-Oxidation or RedOx)... they tend to "go acidic"...
By being more crowded, overfed, "unbalanced" relative to natural environs...
(too little plant life/photosynthesis mostly)... they do "eat away" at alkaline
reserve... One of the reasons for testing for KH, GH... and doing regular water
changes, perhaps adding buffer/alkalinity to restore, keep it within range>
But today we need advice on something different the Nitrites in the tank are
going up continuously. They are between 0.3-0.8 mg/l (now)
<Yikes!
Dangerously toxic>
after a week of every day water change and the second problem is our tap water
has 1.5 mg/l of Ammonia in it,
<Way too much!>
(hence we try to avoid
radical water changes as it is converted to Nitrites too). If a 25% water change
is done the ammonia contents go up to 0.25 mg/l and they disappear within half
an hour. We have water softener system and filters in the house but that water
is very low in KH and GH and has very unstable pH.
<I do encourage you to use
"outside water" here... perhaps from a spigot/tap on the outside of the house...
as you do likely want much of what the water softener is removing... and are
likely not wanting the extra sodium ion content the unit inside is adding>
Some thing has damaged our Nitrite eating bacteria and after a week fishes are
showing signs of stress becoming slightly lethargic.
<Yes... any detectable
nitrite is toxic, debilitating>
We have now 1Tbs of aquarium salt per 20
gallons and 1Tbs of Epsom Salt per 20 gallons of water and Seachem's Neutral
Regulator to adjust the pH as it keeps the KH in place. We don't have Bio Spira
available here in Canada only Cycle by Hagen.
<Mmm, you shouldn't have to add
anything... after the system is established. Please read here re:
http://wetwebmedia.com/FWSubWebIndex/fwestcycling.htm
and the linked files
above>
My question is how can we optimise the conditions under the
circumstances as we need to do 25% water changes every day due to fact that
Nitrites level reaches 1.6mg/l within a day and with each water change we add
Ammonia which is further converted into Nitrites. I wish I was doing my PhD in
Chemistry rather in Physics.
<Mmm, best to pre-mix and store all to-be-used
new water for a week ahead of actually putting it into your system... Please
read here:
http://wetwebmedia.com/water4maruse.htm
Though this piece is
mainly about making synthetic seawater, the principles apply to fresh>
Your
advice will be greatly appreciated, your website is a goldmine of information.
It is only because of it that many people are able to keep their fishes alive
and healthy.
Best Regards,
Midhat.
<And do read here:
http://wetwebmedia.com/FWSubWebIndex/fwmaintindex.htm
the third tray down...
Re Nitrite... You MUST assure that there is none, 0 present in a system with
livestock present. Bob Fenner>
pH problems, FW, Goldfish 1/14/09
Hi Neale,
<Hello Midhat,>
Thank you very much for your advice regarding the snail. Have
a question regarding pH, have been getting variable reading of the pH. We have
one 1.5 inches long red Oranda and 1 inch red cap Oranda in 20 gallon tank with
a filter, live plant (Red Ludwigia) and a decoration rock.
<Well, the
Ludwigia won't last long. Putting aside the fact Goldfish eat plants, Ludwigia
repens is a very difficult plant to grow. It needs a lot of light and a decent,
iron-substrate. Plants aren't easy to maintain, and once they start dying, they
pollute the water. I'd recommend you add no other plants to this tank other than
cheap pondweed (Elodea or Egeria) that you allow the Goldfish to eat. When these
plants start looking shabby, throw them onto your compost heap and buy some new
ones!>
Today in the morning checked the water it had a pH of somewhere b/w
8.5 - 9.0 according to the test strip, did a quick partial water change of 10%
(didn't want to bring it down very quickly), another reading was taken it was
7.5, at once took a sample to LFS and got the water checked, turned out to be
8.4. At the pet store they gave me 'Neutral Regulator ' by Seachem to adjust the
pH to 7.0 (whether high or low just brings pH to neutral value).
<Would
actually suspect the test kit is either [a] inaccurate or [b] difficult to read.
Dip strips can be notoriously inconsistent. Some brands are better than others.
Another factor can be the time of the day, though that depends on how strongly
the plants perform photosynthesis. I assume you don't have strong lights, so
this particular problem isn't likely.>
My question is should I use it?
<Will do no harm, provided you use precisely as instructed on the packaging.>
As on your website it has been mentioned several times that no tempering with
the pH should be done.
<Broadly this is true. It's much better for people to
get fish that "like" the local water chemistry, so that you don't need to mess
about with pH or hardness. If you live in a hard water area (e.g., your kettle
becomes furred up with lime or you need a lot of detergent in the washing
machine) then it is very unlikely that pH will vary much between water changes.
Hard water is really very good stuff for keeping tropical fish happy!>
I also
got a live pH monitor by Mardel and is showing the pH value of 7.4 continuously
and bought new test strips (API) they are giving the value somewhere b/w 7.5 -
8.0. Tap water has the pH of 7.5. I am really puzzled by this, as never had any
problems with the pH before.
<Honestly, my gut feeling is that you aren't using the test strips right, or
else they just aren't very reliable. The liquid test kits tend to be more
consistent, even if they are marginally more difficult to use. In any case, try
using the test strips every day for the next three or four days, performing the
tests at precisely the same time, to factor out any daily variation. If the test
results are essentially the same from one day to the next, that's really all
that matters.>
My fishes are not showing any signs of stress just some
yawning on behalf of red Oranda.
<If the fish aren't stressed, I'd not worry
too much. If pH changes suddenly, fish quickly react, often gasping at surface
or darting around the tank nervously.>
Your advice will be greatly
appreciated as don't know what to do, nothing is making sense. Thank you very
much.
Best Regards,
Midhat
<Good luck, Neale.>
pH/Ammonia Issue, barb sys., env. dis.
1/6/09
I have a 26 gallon bow front tank with 7 different types of
barbs (Rosey, long finned Rosey, ruby, Odessa) and 1 rainbow shark. I have a
whisper filter and an undergravel filter. The temp is set at 78 degrees. This
tank used to be for goldfish but has only had the barbs for about three months.
When I first started up I slowly added the fish and everything checked out.
After awhile the water was somewhat cloudy and the fish were swimming near the
bottom and not really eating which I think resulted in over feeding since I kept
feeding them.
<Do understand that "overfeeding" in itself isn't the issue.
When you put food in the tank, it pollutes the water. It doesn't matter much
whether it goes through the digestive system of a fish or not. The point is that
if the tank is too small, the filter flow too weak, or the biological filter
media insufficiently mature, the food ends up as ammonia. That ammonia stresses
the fish, and commonly this reveals itself as fish that are lethargic, nervous,
poorly coloured, or sick. Prolonged exposure invariably leads to disease and
ultimately death.>
I took my water to a local pet shop and they tested it and
said everything was ok (I never asked for the actual numbers). After talking
with a friend he suggested I buy a PH kit and test that since he thought the
water might be too acidic. It turned out to be very acidic and he told me to add
3/4 teaspoon baking soda every four hours. I did that and got the PH up.
<the
pH of the water is generally not a factor in keeping freshwater fish except
insofar as the pH is stable from week to week. All the fish you list will be
fine between pH 6 and pH 8. Adding baking soda (sodium bicarbonate) will raise
the carbonate hardness of the water and that in turn raises and stabilises the
pH. But it is critically important not to change the water chemistry rapidly.
I'd actually investigate a couple other issues before adding baking soda.
Firstly, are you using water from a domestic water softener? A very common
mistake is to do this! Secondly, how often do you change the water? Your tank is
extremely heavily stocked for its size, assuming you have sensible numbers (5-6
specimens) of each species of barb.
My guess is that you're in a soft water
area, which is fine by itself, but because the tank is overstocked, the pH is
unstable. Do see here:
http://www.wetwebmedia.com/FWSubWebindex/fwsoftness.htm>
However the water
stayed somewhat cloudy and the fish started dying. This time I went and bought
my own water test kits. The nitrate and nitrate were 0 but the ammonia was high.
I did a partial water change and got the ammonia down. However then the PH went
back down so I added more baking soda and the cycle continued. All the while I
was losing fish.
<Again, my assumption is not that the pH or hardness are
"wrong" as such, though they may be relatively low, let's say pH 6 to 7, 5-10
degrees dH, right out the tap. The sheer biological loading on the tank means
that the water volume just can't buffer against acidification.>
After reading
different things on the internet I am very confused as everyone I talked to or
everything I read keeps giving me different information. At present the ammonia
is 0.25 and the PH is 6.6. I have been doing 25% water changes every other day
and adding BioZyme every day.
<Water changes a good remedy for situations
like this, but clearly not something you want to do in the long term.>
So far
the fish are ok, although I am expecting to lose one of my Odessa barbs anytime
since its stomach is bloated and its scales are sticking out which seems to be
dropsy. Everything I read indicates there is nothing I can do to save my fish
and it will die.
<Indeed.>
Please advise me on what to do with my tank. I
need advice on the ammonia and the Ph in keeping them stable and getting my
water to clear. Anything at this point will help.
Kelly
<Rosy Barbs
(Puntius conchonius) don't belong in tropical tanks anyway (they're subtropical
fish) and get too big (15 cm/6 inches) for this aquarium. The Odessa Barb
(Puntius padamya) are a bit smaller (8-10 cm/3-4 inches) and a group of six or
so would be borderline acceptable in this tank. Ruby Barbs (Puntius
nigrofasciatus) are smaller still (5 cm/2 inches) and a group of 6 would be
ideal additions to this tank, though they are very feisty and best kept only
with other barbs and not with anything long-finned, slow, or nervous. In other
words, start by bringing us some actual numbers about the water from the tap: pH
and general hardness. Then think about which barbs you want to keep. Stock the
tank slowly, taking care not to overfeed, and to be honest, feeding once every
other day would be ample while the tank is unstable. Cheers, Neale.>
Re: pH/Ammonia Issue 1/6/09
You indicated
that you wanted the PH and hardness of the tap water. When I tested the PH of
the tap water it came out to be 7.6. I waited about an hour and tested it again
without adding anything and it was still 7.6. I do not believe I have soft water
as I do not have a water softener.
<From the pH, it does sound as if you
probably have moderately hard, basic water. When writing pH, note the lower case
"p", upper case "H".>
Also, I get water from the city sewer system.
<Eh?
How/why do you put sewage into your aquarium? Mains water -- i.e., drinking
water -- is just fine and dandy for most aquarium fish. Except in very specific
situations, you usually don't need to add or alter anything beyond adding a good
dechlorinator/water conditioner.>
Is there a way to test the hardness of the
water so I can give you those numbers?
<I'd heartily recommend getting a
carbonate hardness (or KH) test kit. Some test kits come as paper strips,
sometimes with multiple different tests per strip, so that each strip does pH,
carbonate hardness, general hardness, nitrite, and nitrate. Such test kits are
usually inexpensive and easy to use.>
If so, please suggest specific tests. I
guess I was not very clear when I said I have 7 different types of barbs, I
meant 7 total fish. I have 2 Odessa Barbs (one on its way to death), 2 rosy
barbs, 1 ruby barb, 2 tico barbs, and 1 rainbow shark.
<Remember when you were reading aquarium books and they mentioned how barbs
become aggressive sometimes, and nip other fish? This is how. They are schooling
fish. That means their whole psychology works around groups. Six is the minimum
number PER SPECIES. Keep less than that and they'll either be terrified or
psychotic. Barbs are wonderful fish, but you have to get the fundamentals right.
Stocking an aquarium isn't like putting a bunch of different cut flowers in a
vase. You can't just choose shapes and colours you like. You have to understand
the needs of each animal (yes, fish are animals) and work around them. Generally
fishkeeping is a very easy hobby if you do things correctly (i.e., exactly as a
good book or expert fishkeeper like me tells you!). But try to go it alone, and
things often get messy...>
I was told with my 26 gallon I could have about 20
barbs at some point if I can get things stable.
<Not a chance. For a start,
"barbs" covers a variety of species from one-inch dwarfs to giant barbs bigger
than a dog. So obviously "twenty barbs" has to be mediated by the size of the
barb species concerned. Since you need six of each species, at least, twenty
barbs would be, at most, three different species (seven of one, seven of
another, and six of a third). While you could keep twenty dwarf species like
Puntius gelius or Puntius vittatus, bigger species like Puntius conchonius (the
Rosy Barb) are right out.>
However I have never been able to add more because
the water has been unstable. You also asked how often I change the water and I
normally change 25% of the water once every 7-10 days and change the carbon
filter once a month. However with the ammonia spikes I have been doing it every
other day or so because it has been getting so high.
<The tank is almost
certainly overstocked relative to the maturity of the filter. If I were you, I'd
return all the barbs except the Ruby Barbs, since they're the only species that
make sense in this tank. Let the tank settle down. After 2-3 weeks of careful
management I'd fully expect the filter to mature safely and the pH to stabilise.
You can then add some more Ruby Barbs to bring the school up to a sensible size.
I'd make sure to keep six of them, three males to three females. While females
aren't so strongly coloured, they help the males settle in and dilute the
aggression. They also encourage the males to acquire their breeding colours as
they mature, in which condition the males are extremely handsome. Ruby Barbs are
pretty aggressive fish though, so don't expect to keep anything dainty or
long-finned like Guppies or Angelfish -- just isn't gonna happen! The Rainbow
Shark Minnow should be returned too, though you could try keeping it if you felt
like a challenge. Shark Minnows are aggressive and very territorial once mature,
and my assumption would be it will become a bit of a terror in a tank this
small! But that's your choice. All the other fish should go, period.>
So, I
guess I still need advice on how to stabilize the ammonia and PH and once I get
all that situated I will need to know which barbs can go together since I was
told all barbs can go together.
<No they can't.>
I will be happy to
provide all the information I can so you can provide me with the most accurate
solutions as all the advice I have been given so far has not helped me.
Kelly
<Do also check your filter is appropriate to your needs. Don't waste your time
with "ammonia remover" or carbon media; what you need is biological and
mechanical media, a good mix of sponge and/or ceramic noodles. Choose a filter
with a turnover of NOT LESS than four times the volume of the tank per hour (in
your case, at least 4 x 26 = 104 gallons per hour). The more filtration, the
better. If budget is an issue, it's hard to beat an undergravel filter.
Otherwise any decent internal or external canister filter should do the trick
nicely. Read the instructions carefully, but don't get distracted by sales
pitches that involve replacing sachets of carbon and what not every month!
Carbon is pretty useless in a tank like yours, and mostly a way for
manufacturers to make money. Read up on what each filter medium type does, and
choose accordingly. Take it from me: biological media is what makes or breaks
your aquarium! Hope this helps.
Cheers, Neale.>
Re: pH/Ammonia Issue
First off I want to thank you for taking the time to help me.
<Happy to
help.>
This whole process has been so frustrating as the people at the pet
stores seem to know little to nothing about fish. I spoke with the store where I
purchased the fish and they will not take them back (even for free). I explained
it was their bad advice but they still would not take them. I also called
several other stores but none of them have the types of barbs I have and won't
take them. They have a few have tiger barbs but not the other varieties so they
won't take them. So far it does not look like I am going to be able to get rid
of the fish and just keep the one ruby like you suggested. Any thoughts on this?
<I wish I had some magic solution to this. But there isn't one. Without "getting
on your case" too much, the lesson here is that it always pays to research the
fish first, and then buy them, rather than buy them first, and then find out
about them afterwards. Since you're stuck with these fish for the time being at
least, you can always hope for the best. But at the end of the day, the biology
of each fish species will be working against you, so there's no guarantees I can
give you that all will work out. Things might, but I just can't say for sure.>
In terms of filtration...I have a Whisper power filter for up to 30 gallons.
According to the packaging it has mechanical, chemical, and biological
filtration components and a turnover rate of 150 gallons per hour. I also have a
Perfect-A-Flo undergravel filter that is powered by an air pump and air stones.
<All sounds fine. The undergravel filter will be doing most of the work in
terms of biological filtration.>
I also left work and purchased a water test
kit and went home and tested the water. I tested both the current aquarium water
and the tap water without any chemicals added to it. (I stated before I got the
water out of the sewage system...haha, I meant the city tap. That would be
gross). The results are as follows:
Aquarium Water:
Tap Water:
Nitrate
- 0
Nitrate - 0
Nitrite - 0.5
Nitrite - 0
Total Hardness (GH) -
300 ppm
GH - 300 ppm
Chlorine - 0
Chlorine - 0
Total Alkalinity
(KH) - 40 ppm
KH - 180 ppm
pH- 6.2
pH - 8.4
<Ah, very interesting.
Firstly, nitrite is going up, which implies one of three things: [a] the filter
isn't mature (or isn't being maintained properly); [b] the fish are being
overfed; or [c] there are too many (or too big) fish for the tank/filter
provided. Secondly, the carbonate hardness (that's the KH measurement) goes
down. Carbonate hardness is the stuff that prevents acidification. In brief, all
tanks tend to become acidic over time for a variety of reasons. Decaying organic
matter produces acids, bogwood leaches acids, nitrate dissociates into nitric
acid, and so on. In a hard water tank there is usually enough carbonate hardness
that this process is so inhibited that any acidification (i.e., pH drop) is
minimal between water changes. Hence, while aquarists often bemoan hard water
because it's so different to the soft water of the Amazon, in reality it is
something of a blessing! Now, since your carbonate hardness is being
dramatically "used up" (i.e., goes from 180 ppm [10 degrees KH] to 40 ppm [2.2
degrees KH]) between water changes, this means one of two things: [a] you aren't
doing enough water changes to keep topping up the carbonate hardness; or [b]
there's an AWFUL lot of acidification going on in your aquarium. By default, do
25-50% water changes weekly, and make sure that there isn't any organic matter
in the tank likely to lower pH (bogwood, dead plants, uneaten food, etc.). If
the aquarium is honestly going from pH 8.4 to 6.2 between water changes, that is
more than enough by itself to kill your fish. In all honesty I can't imagine
what's happening to cause such dramatic pH changes, as water with carbonate
hardness of 180 ppm is essentially liquid chalk! You certainly shouldn't need to
be using buffering chemicals or potions. But one possible result is loss of
biological filtration: the filter media bacteria are sensitive to pH, and prefer
a pH above 7.0; as the pH drops below 7.0, they work less and less happily,
stopping entirely around pH 6.0.>
I also used a separate test kit to get the
current ammonia levels of the aquarium and the result was 0.25.
<These low
levels of ammonia and nitrite are pretty typical of tanks through their cycling
phase; by gut feeling is that this tank is either not fully cycled or else
dramatically overstocked. Some of your fish have the potential to get pretty
big: how big are they now? I've been assuming they're all babies under 5 cm/2
inches.>
I don't know what this all means except that my tank water is not of
good
quality for the fish which I already knew.
<Your tap water is
actually pretty good. It's on the hard side, but as mentioned, that's not a bad
thing. Barbs don't care about hardness really, and this water would be perfect
for livebearers as well as most catfish and cichlids.>
Seeing as I can not
return the fish I am not sure what you will suggest next, but I am willing to
try anything. Is there any possible way to stabilize the water with the current
fish in the tank?
<Here's what I'd do. Put the fish in a bucket, filled with
water from the tank. Drape a towel over it to stop them jumping. Switch off the
heater and filters. Remove the electric filter, and at the least place its
biological media (sponge/ceramic noodles) in a shallow basin of aquarium water
so it stays wet but well oxygenated. (Dry media is dead media!) Empty the tank
of water down to an inch above the gravel, all the while giving the gravel a
really good clean to wash away any detritus. Once you're happy the tank is
spotlessly clean, add fresh water from the tap, with dechlorinator of course.
Put the heaters and filters back, and switch them on. Check everything looks
good, in particular the temperature is where it should be, around 24-25 C/75-77
F for barbs. Now, slowly replace the water in the bucket with water from the
tank. The idea is to slowly introduce the barbs to the "new" water conditions
one small change at a time. I'd recommend changing one litre (about the size of
an ice cream carton) every ten minutes. So after an hour or two, your barbs
should be completely converted to the new conditions. Using a net, move the
barbs to the new tank. Don't put any old water from the bucket into the tank!
Over the next week, do a pH change each day. Don't feed your fish more than one
small pinch of food per day! (A small pinch is just that, and all the food
should be gone within 30 seconds. Each barb only needs a single flake to do just
fine.)
You might decide not to feed them at all this week. In any case,
check the pH daily, and with luck, the pH will not drop dramatically. After
seven days, change 25-50%; the smaller amount is fine if you find pH is steady
and nitrite/ammonia are at zero.>
By the way when I do water changes I add
NovAqua plus and AmQuel plus, both Kordon products. One other note, I get an
accumulation of crusty white stuff around the edges of the outside of the tank
hood. I am assuming this is cause by something from the tank, some sort of
deposit buildup, perhaps you know what it is?
<The white stuff is likely just
lime. Harmless. Can be brushed off. A little lemon juice or vinegar can be used
to safely work away at stubborn patches, but try not to get too much of these
into the water! Hope this helps, Neale.>
Re: pH/Ammonia Issue
Yes, all the fish are smaller, I
think the Ticto Barbs are the biggest and may be slightly over the 2 inches but
not by much. I am going to try your suggestion of draining out the water. One
thing you mentioned in your suggestion was "Over the next week, do a pH change
each day". Did you mean do a pH check every day?
<Oops. Yes, "check" or "test" was precisely what I meant.>
Hopefully this
will work and I just have too much acidification going on, perhaps from
overfeeding in the past and it not getting properly cleaned thus causing this
problem. I have been very careful about feedings lately so I now at least with
the past two weeks I have not been overfeeding. I also know it can not be due to
lack of water changes because I have been doing them every other to every two
days for the past several weeks and once a week before that. I am going to make
sure I take out all the plants and decorations when cleaning this time. If the
pH happens to crash I will email you right away. I guess all I need confirmed is
that you meant a pH check not change. Thanks again!
<Happy to help, Neale.>
Re: pH/Ammonia Issue 1/7/08
It seems your
suggestion has worked at least for the time being. We will see in the long run.
<Indeed!>
So far the water parameters in the aquarium are what I reported for
my tap water
(Nitrate - 0, Nitrate - 0, Total Hardness (GH) - 300 ppm,
Chlorine - 0, Total Alkalinity (KH) - 180 ppm, pH - 8.4).
<All sounds fine.
The pH is on the high side, but nothing dangerous.>
I will check the pH daily
as advised and let you know of any major changes.
I do have one question
though, the current level of my pH is 8.4 according to the all-in-one test (it
has a range of 6.2-8.4). I also have an API test but that only goes up to 7.6
(range of 6.0-7.6). If my water stays that high at 8.4 is there anything I am
going to need to do lower it?
<One battle at a time. Adjusting pH isn't
something to worry about unless you're an experienced fishkeeper. You see, what
kills fish is variations in pH within short periods of time. Broadly speaking,
most fish will adapt to a wide pH range, provided that pH is stable. While it
would be worth lowering the pH a bit, to around 7.5-8.0 eventually, I'd rather
you focused on keeping a steady pH and good water quality for now. If, after a
month, you find the nitrite stays at zero and the pH stays stable from week to
week, then get back in touch and we'll talk about some of the options. But right
here, right now, one thing at a time! Cheers, Neale.>
Re: pH/Ammonia Issue (RMF, never come across this, any
ideas?)
01/09/09
Well, the tank was stable for a day and a
half!
<Good stuff!>
Today when I tested there was an ammonia
spike. It went from 0 to 1.0. (I could tell right away something was
wrong because the water was slightly cloudy). I checked the pH and it is
7.6. I originally told you it was 8.4 but when I checked it yesterday it
was 7.8.
<Much more typical.>
I didn't know if it dropped or I
read the strip wrong
<<Strip type tests are notoriously imprecise
and inaccurate. RMF>>
so I checked the tap water again and the tap
water is closer to 7.8. (The strips I got can be tricky to read and when
I first read it, it was at night and when I read it during the day with
natural sunlight, it was a bit easier to read). At any rate the pH has
dropped a little from 7.8 to 7.6. The KH also went from 180 ppm to 40
ppm.
<Something is -- very rapidly -- consuming carbonate hardness.
For the life of me, I can't think what would do this in the space of 24
hours short of pouring in a bunch of acids! My suspicion is that the
water you have is "unstable" prior to use, and that the test kits are
giving misleading results. Try this: put a bucket of water out
overnight, and test the hardness and pH immediately after you fill the
bucket and then 12-24 hours later. If you can, add an airstone to keep
the water turning over, otherwise just stir every once in a while. I
wonder if your water is actually rather soft after the minerals or
whatever in the freshly drawn tap water have broken down. If that's the
case, you'll need to treat or store your water prior to use.>
Nitrate, Nitrite, are at 0. Last night I did give the fish a very tiny
pinch of TetraColor fish flakes. There was about 6 flakes total that I
put in the tank. I am not feeding today. So, I guess I am at a loss. I
have no idea what could be happening in my tank, but maybe you can shed
some light this situation.
<I'm confused too, and asking Bob for
advice.>
<<I concur... something is anomalous here... Does this tank
have a very large amount of live plant material? Driftwood? RMF>>
Is
there something I should do to get the KH/pH stable?
<Certainly, a
stable pH is what you want.>
<<Yes... I would use a commercial
buffering product myself, or advise it here... If this were a store
setting, we'd likely add a source of carbonate in the recirculating
water flow path... Perhaps dump in some baking soda on a regular (maybe
daily) basis. RMF>>
Is there something I should do for the ammonia
spike or will that take care of itself if I get the KH/pH under control?
<Ammonia should settle down once water chemistry settles down. I'm
guessing that variations in water chemistry are stressing the filter
bacteria, making it difficult for them to work properly. Cheers, Neale.>
<<I would make sure and have zero ammonia BEFORE fooling with pH or
alkalinity here... Too high in all these areas is synergistically very
toxic. RMF>>
Re: pH/Ammonia Issue (RMF, never come across this, any ideas?)
01/09/09
I will definitely test the tap water over the
weekend.
<Cool.>
When I emailed you last night I said there was a drop in
pH, but now I am not so sure. The strips I have to test KH and GH (as well as
nitrite and nitrate) are hard to read the pH readings. The KH and GH are easy to
read, but not the pH.
<Ah, would suggest buying a liquid test kit for pH.>
They are all a shade of pink. When I test the tap water and compare it to my
current water they look the same, right around 7.6 and 7.8. When I use another
pH only test kit and test the tap water and the tank water they also read the
same about 7.6 (however that test only goes to 7.6). But at least the shades are
the same.
<OK.>
So now, I do not think the pH is really dropping, but
there was a definite drop in KH and a definite ammonia spike. The pH was stable
this morning around 7.6-7.8 and the KH was still around 40. The ammonia is
around .50 to 1.0 when I test. I have not added anything to the water and I did
not feed yesterday and probably won't feed today. I will email over the weekend
and let you know the results of the tap water experiment. I do have an extra air
stone to add so I will do that.
<Starting to suspect a tap water issue: will
see what Bob says.>
<<Are you adding anything to this water period, before
testing it... a conditioner perhaps? A few of the common dechloraminating
products will give a false positive for ammonia. Otherwise there should be NO
detectable ammonia in mains/tapwater. Test just the raw source water. RMF>>
Since I do not think the pH is dropping anymore is there a chance my tank is
recycling?
<Quite possible the ammonia comes in the tap water. Or
alternatively, your dechlorinator doesn't treat chloramine (check!) and if this
is the case, produces free ammonia when it breaks the chloramine down.>
I
know this would cause an ammonia spike, but would it cause a decline in the KH
as well?
<Ammonia and carbonate can react, yes.>
This is the only thing I
can think of, but my knowledge is not as good as yours, but I thought I would
throw that out there.
<I'm in the dark, too!>
I will continue to check the
water daily to see if there is a major drop in pH and if there is a spike in
nitrite or nitrates (they are currently at 0). If it is recycling there after
the ammonia spike there will be a spike in nitrite then nitrate, correct?
<In
theory. But if the ammonia comes in the tap water, then the nitrite produced by
the filter will likely be used up quickly, without being detectable.>
Thanks
again for all your help. If you have any other thoughts or ideas, let me know. I
will try anything at this point.
<Cheers, Neale.>
Re: pH/Ammonia Issue (RMF, never come across this, any
ideas?) 01/10/09
Alright so here is the result of the tests
I did on the tap water. First off, I did get a new test kit that is
easier to read.
<<Ah, good. RMF>>
This test showed
different
results from the original tap water results I had given you.
Namely
the first time I told you the KH was 180 ppm but this test shows that it
starts off at 120 ppm. Anyway here are all the stats of the tap water
immediately out of the tap without any chemicals added:
Ammonia=0
Nitrate=0
Nitrite=0
GH=150 ppm
Chlorine=0
KH=120
pH=7.6 (keep in mind the test kit only goes to
7.6, the other strip test was between the 7.6 and 7.8 but closer to 7.6)
After about 18 hours of the tap water being in the bucket with an air
stone the results were the following:
Ammonia=0
Nitrate=0
Nitrite=0
GH=150 ppm
Chlorine=0
KH=80 ppm
pH=7.6
So
basically the KH dropped off from 120 to 80 in less than 24 hours.
<<Mmm, these test results are "fine", much more easily accounted for...
the "loss" of KH here may well be due to precipitation of material/s
added by your water supplier (flocculent and temporary hardness) to
improve (low) water supply on their end, protect pipes et al. in their
plants and distally... Not uncommon more and more... RMF>>
Now, I
keep my fish tank in the basement of our house, which is finished off
and very nice. But I dump the old aquarium water out in the wash basin
where the wash machine flows into. There are two sides to the basin and
I make sure when filling the bucket with tap water that is to go into
the aquarium I use the side the wash machine does not dump into. My
husband made a point of saying that the pipes down there are very old
and he suggested using water from the bathroom where the pipes are more
new. I was leaving the water run in the sink a bit when using the old
faucet, but he said it might make a difference.
<<It may...>>
So I
tested the water straight from the tap from a newer faucet and all the
numbers were the same except the KH came out to be 80 ppm, right out of
the tap. I guess I am thinking that this water might be more stable, if
this even makes sense. I put this water in a bucket and do the same
12-24 hour test to see if it changes. Right now the current KH of the
aquarium has dropped is closer to 80 ppm. But there is still a lot of
ammonia in the water.
<<Am thinking this is spurious... do you have
a DPD test kit, or someone about who does... maybe someone with a pool
or spa nearby... Something is up here.>>
But I am surprised to see
the pH staying steady. Is it possible that the ammonia level spiked
because the KH dropped from 120 to 80 in the course of 24 hours?
<<No>>
By the way I use Amquel plus to dechlorinate my water and it
says that it takes care of both the chlorine and chloramine.
<<This
fine Kordon product can/does yield a false positive for ammonia with
many types of test kits... Nessler's rgt. Again, you aren't adding this
ahead/before testing for ammonia I take it. RMF>>
Let me know what
your thoughts are on all this.
<Apart from the carbonate hardness
issue, your tap water is otherwise very good. Zero ammonia is obviously
what you want when doing water changes, and the moderate level of
general hardness (GH) suits a goodly range of tropicals including barbs,
tetras, catfish and South American cichlids.
It's a bit low for
livebearers and species from hardwater habitats like Mbuna, but
otherwise this water is good. Because the carbonate hardness varies --
for now obvious reason to me -- I think I'd concur with Bob's comment
that adding some type of buffer to each batch of water would be
beneficial. If you're keeping mixed community tropicals, then any
standard buffering potion that fixes the pH at 6.5, 7.0, or 7.5 would be
ideal.
There's not much to choose between any one pH value in terms
of community fish, so going for 7.5 would probably be the easiest option
in terms of usage, cost and usefulness. If you fish are skewed towards
hardwater species like livebearers (Guppies, Platies, Swordtails,
Mollies, etc.) I'd actually not use a buffer but instead use a Malawi
(African cichlid) salt mix. This will both steady pH and raise carbonate
hardness. You can buy Malawi salt mix from an aquarium shop, or else
make your own for pennies per water change. Per 5 gallons/20 litres,
stir in:
1 teaspoon baking soda (sodium bicarbonate)
1 tablespoon
Epsom salt (magnesium sulfate)
1 teaspoon marine salt mix (sodium
chloride + trace elements)
Once done, test the water chemistry of the
bucket of water to confirm everything is as it should be. If all your
fish are hardwater species, then use this "hardened" water entirely; if
you have a mix of hardwater and regular species, a 50/50 mix of hardened
water with tap water should do the trick. Hope this helps, Neale.>
Freshwater pH question -10/29/08
Hello Crew,
<Hi,>
I've emailed you guys in the past with questions about my tanks, and you
guys have always been great -- so thanks in advance for your help. My
question concerns water pH. I've just moved to a new apartment and I'll
be setting up a new tank, a 46g bowfront (I'm very excited about this!).
I'm planning on doing a planted tank with angelfish, as I've always
loved angels but until now have not had a big enough tank to keep them.
<In a tank this size, a school of six or more will be lovely!>
I'm a bit confused by the water in my new location, though, as it seems
to be slightly on the soft side but with a pretty high pH. With my home
test kits I get a KH of 6 degrees, and a pH of 7.8 (I don't have a
general hardness test kit yet).
<Easily accepted by standard commercially-bred Angelfish. Do please
check you're using water out the tap, not from a water softener. For
what it's worth, standard Angels are happy between pH 6-8, 5-20 degrees
dH and at hardness level up to around 10 degrees KH.>
I've looked up the municipal water quality report for my area, and the
values they give are pH of 7.9, total hardness of 109 mg/L, and
alkalinity of 96 mg/L (seems to be reasonably in line with what I'm
finding with my home test kits). So, my questions are: 1) why is the pH
so high even though the water doesn't
seem to be too hard,
<pH isn't solely dependent on the carbonate/bicarbonate salts measured
via KH test kits. In any case, pH doesn't matter. Hardness matters. So
long as the pH is stable from week to week, your water supply is fine.
Just add dechlorinator and enjoy!>
and 2) should I set about trying to adjust the pH in order to keep
angels?
<If we're talking about standard hybrid Angels from the pet store, then
you're going to be fine. They've been bred in a wide range of
conditions, and are essentially extremely adaptable animals. Wild-caught
Angels are a whole different kettle of fish though, as are carefully
bred species such as Altum Angels and Dwarf Angels.>
The water quality report mentions that the pH of the water supply is
raised in order to prevent pipe corrosion, but doesn't say through what
means.
<Shouldn't worry too much; good quality water conditioner should fix
things.>
As far as what to do about it, I'm considering doing something not too
drastic like adding a bit of peat in a media bag to the filter. Do you
think this might help? I don't want to undertake anything too drastic
with this tank (such as finding another source of distilled or softer
water for mixing in), but I'm concerned that a pH of 7.8 is too high for
angels, and also possibly for plants.
<It all depends on what you're keeping. Yes, wild Angels come from water
that is fairly soft, though not usually those really soft blackwater
habitats we associate with Discus. The tank-bred Angels are adaptable
and really more fussed about water quality. Likewise most plants adapt
well to hard water, and indeed some prefer it (Vallisneria for example,
and some Amazon Swords). Just as with the fish, pH isn't something to
lose sleep over except in very specific situations. Regardless, it is
ALWAYS better to chose fish and plants that will thrive in the water
chemistry you have, than to obsess over methods to alter the hardness to
suit the fish you see in books.>
thanks again,
Nicole
<Cheers, Neale.>
pH problems 10/9/08
Hello. I have a problem with the pH in my tank. I've had it for over two years
now. It's a 70 gallon tank, with three fancy goldfish. I do 15% water changes
every week, and I always use a chlorine/chloramine removing product
(stress-coat). My Ammonia is 0, nitrates are 10ppm, and the pH is now a very low
6.0.
<Much too low for Goldfish... stressing them for sure, and eventually making
them more prone to disease.>
It wasn't always like this, it used to be 7.0 (my tap water has a pH of 7).
<At the very least do more water changes: the more pH 7 water you add, and the
more frequently, the smaller the pH drop between water changes will be. Do read
these articles to learn about water chemistry:
http://www.wetwebmedia.com/FWSubWebindex/fwsoftness.htm
http://www.wetwebmedia.com/FWSubWebindex/fwh2oquality.htm
With Goldfish, you should be doing 25-50% water changes, weekly.>
I have no idea what to do. Could the problem be my filter?
<Not as such, unless there is peat or something else acidifying the water in
there.>
I have an emperor 400, but I never replaced the pads inside. Can that be causing
the problem?
<Well, any chemical media (e.g., carbon) need to be replaced at least monthly to
do their jobs. One reason I consider carbon a waste of time. Likewise ammonia
remover (zeolite). Both these products are incredibly cheap to make but the
"modules" the company sells are wildly inflated, so in both cases these things
are in your filter not to help with water quality but to extract cash from your
pocket and direct it into the coffers of the filter manufacturer. I always
recommend people get basic canister or box filters into which you can stuff
whatever media you want. In the case of Goldfish, all you need is some
mechanical media (such as filter wool) to extract solid waste, and then lots of
biological media (such as ceramic noodles) to process the ammonia. Nothing else
is essential, but you still have the option of removing some of either media to
make space for any specific media you need, such as crushed coral or peat or
whatever. For all these reasons, hang-on-the-back filters are, in my opinion, a
waste of money.>
Also, I have bought a big bag of crushed coral to try to buffer the water.
Should I use it, and if yes, how?
<Yes you should use it. Put some (say, a cup) of crushed coral into a media bag
(something that looks a bit like a sock but made from mesh fabric). Rinse the
bag under a running tap to wash away all the dust. Place the bag into the
filter. As the water flows through the crushed coral it will pick up carbonate
and bicarbonate ions, and this will neutralise the acidity gently but
effectively. Use a pH test kit daily for the first week just to make sure the pH
isn't changing too rapidly. If it is, remove some (say, 50%) of the crushed
coral and put the bag back in the filter. Keep testing, and adding or removing
crushed coral until you get a nice steady pH around 7.5 between water changes.>
My filter doesn't really have much room for a lot of it.
<That's why I wouldn't have recommended the hang-on-the-back filter.
Unfortunately there's not a lot you can do here. The best solution would be to
buy a cheap box filter (cost around £5 here in England) and an air pump (if you
don't already have one). Put the crushed coral in the box filter (no need for
the media bag in this case) and then connect to the air pump. As the air bubbles
through the box filter, water will flow past the crushed coral, buffering the
pH.>
Please help me. Thank you.
<Cheers, Neale.>
Re: pH problems – 10/10/08
Thanks Neale that was very helpful. Now let me just bother you with one more
question. Do you think I can just place the crushed coral in a fine mesh bag and
just lay it on top of my substrate and putting an airstone next to
it instead of using a box filter?
<Nope, won't work. Filtration -- whether chemical, biological or mechanical --
relies on moving water being moved past the media. This is why floating a sponge
in a tank doesn't turn it into filter -- the water has to be pumped through the
sponge. Moreover, once the chemical media gets covered with algae, bacteria and
silt, it becomes isolated from the water, and so stops working. You need to be
able to clean the media every few weeks under a hot tap to wash away this stuff.
Putting the crushed coral in a filter -- whatever type of filter -- is the only
way this system works reliably. Notions based on adding coral sand in the gravel
or putting tufa rock in the tank won't work for the same reasons. Without a flow
of water and regular cleaning, any chemical buffering offered initially will
fade away in a few weeks.>
Or do you think this could just trap a lot of waste and become a hazard to the
aquarium?
<Indeed.>
Your help is much appreciated.
<Cheers, Neale.>
Re: lowering ph in planted tank
7/27/08
Neale,
Well, I got a RO/DI unit (for a smoking good deal, so not sweating the cost, and
have a use for the runoff H2O), the output of which is currently 0 TDS, 7.0 ph,
and alkalinity is somewhere between 0-10 ppm. Just RO is about 16 TDS,
alkalinity is same, ph is same.
<All sounds promising.>
My tap water is 420 TDS, 8.0+ ph (kit doesn't go above that), 130ppm alkalinity,
and 210-220 calcium.
<Standard issue "liquid rock"!>
I mixed 50/50 tap and RO+DI, and I got 60-70ppm alkalinity, but the ph was still
8.0+
<It would be; acidity is created by the presence of acidic chemicals, not by
reducing hardness. There's a complex thing behind pH involving the relative
proportions of things that raise pH (alkaline chemicals, such as bicarbonate
salts) and things that lower pH (acidic chemicals, typically organics such as
tannins). What softening water does is reduce the abundance of the alkaline
chemicals, so that smaller amounts of the acid chemicals will lower the pH.>
I want to get roughly neutral ph with 70ppm alkalinity (to be safe...as you say
55ppm or so is a minimum target).
<Sounds fine.>
Seems like my main option here would be RO+DI and a neutral buffer to get my
alkalinity up. Am I heading down the right track?
<Yes, pretty much. I'd be using your 50/50 soft/hard water for starters, and to
be absolutely honest not messing with pH just yet. I'd want to see how the
background acidification of the tank affected pH between water changes (testing,
say, ever 2-3 days). Once I was confident that pH was stable, I'd then look to
using either carefully controlled amount of peat granulate in the filter to
increase acidity or else using a pH 7 or pH 6.5 buffer salt as required. I like
the Sera Peat Granulate; it's concentrated, so you can start off with tablespoon
or three in a media bag, pop it into the canister filter, and then see what
happens with pH across the next few days, checking pH daily. The water will turn
brown of course, which may or may not be a good thing depending on your needs.
Commercial pH buffers will "fix" the pH and keep water chemistry within a very
safe range provided they are used correctly. They are more expensive than peat,
but perhaps easier to use. But remember: pH itself doesn't matter much, pH
stability does. If your aquarium is medium-hard to slightly soft in terms of
hardness, it's already "optimal" in terms of fishkeeping. So medium-hard water
at pH 7.5 would be fine for a wide variety of fish without any further fuss.>
I am also trying to figure out how to mix some tap water in to get the calcium
and some
alkalinity help. Any suggestions on ratios?
<Experiment, and see what you get. A 50/50 mix is ideal (as well as cheap to run
in the long term) so I'd start there and monitor/adjust pH afterwards. Don't get
dazzled by the idea there's some "optimal" pH because there isn't; instead
understand the goal, creating water similar to the wild, by reducing carbonate
hardness and adding organic acids such as tannins.>
Thanks, as always, for the help.
Paul
<Hope this helps, Neale.>
|
ph, FW... modifying
4/16/08
Good day,
I have a pH question that I have searched for an answer on but have not found or
I may have overlooked. I know there is a ph range for fish that are listed, I
know that different water has different buffering ability and that aragonite,
peat, coral, etc can alter pH either up or down. What I am trying to find out is
that most literature gives the desired pH range for different fish/species, or
says adaptable but to avoid extremes....what would an extreme be, especially in
the alkaline range? Is 8.2 an extreme for a 7.5 fish even if it is a consistent
8.2? I really don't want to attempt to combat this with ph altering chemicals,
nor do I want to be restricted to African cichlids that will destroy my plants
:-(
K
<K, very simply, most standard community fish will do well between pH 6 and pH
8. The main exceptions are the livebearers, which absolutely must be kept at a
basic pH above pH 7. Now, having said this, pH isn't what you should focus on.
Fish don't really care about pH all that much; what matters to them is pH
stability. In other words, it's the carbonate hardness, measured in degrees KH.
For standard community fish you want a carbonate hardness around 3 to 7 degrees
KH, and for livebearers you want at least 5 degrees KH. Why don't I mention
general hardness (measured in degrees dH)? Well, while this is also important in
terms of accommodating "soft" and "hard" water fish, it doesn't directly steady
pH. Rather, general hardness affects the osmoregulation of the fish. So what
you're after for standard community tropicals is water with a general hardness
between 5-20 degrees dH, 3-7 degrees KH, and between pH 6 and 8. This range is
fine for species that are said to be adaptable, like Corydoras and barbs. You
might not be able to breed them, but they'll live just fine. Livebearers are
exceptional, and must have hard (10+ degrees dH), carbonate-rich (5+ degrees KH)
water with a pH around 7.5-8. Do have a review of this article:
http://www.wetwebmedia.com/FWSubWebIndex/fwh2oquality.htm
Cheers, Neale.>
Re: pH 4/16/08
Thank you. That was exactly what I was looking for. There is so much
emphasis (and products) revolving around actual ph that never mentions the
hardness or buffering, so it leaves a lot of uncertainty for non-chemist
hobbyists like myself :-) .
<Indeed so. Because pH is easy to measure and understand, people tend to focus
on it. But at best, what pH does is give you a first glance look at water
chemistry. It doesn't tell the whole story.>
So if my dh and my KH are spot on (11 and 6 respectively), a steady pH of 8.2 is
ok for fish that are known to do well do in ph 7.5-8.0?
<You should be fine; this sounds a lot like "London Tap Water" and provided you
avoid fish that explicitly demand soft and acidic water to do well (like Ram
Cichlids and Rasboras) you should find many species do well. Livebearers are the
obvious choices, but Rainbowfish, Barbs, Halfbeaks, Gouramis, Plecs, and
Corydoras can all be relied upon as well. Most hardy tetras are okay, but to be
honest Neons and Cardinals are of variable use in very hard water and are
perhaps best avoided. X-ray Tetras on the other hand thrive in such conditions.
So research your choices carefully. Cheers, Neale.>
|
|
High Nitrates after use of
Melafix – 03/20/08
Hello,
<Hi there>
First, let me say thank you for your wonderful site, which I return to every
chance I get. You have been kind enough in the past to help me; and I am hoping
for your assistance again.
<Will try...>
I have a 36 gallon freshwater tank, lightly stocked with 10 fish. When my tank
was new (15 months ago) it always had an alkaline PH of about 7.2.
<... Mmm, not "that" alkaline... In fact, some good reasons to have a slightly
elevated pH... NealeM has a nice article re:
http://wetwebmedia.com/FWSubWebIndex/fwhardness.htm
and the linked files above>
As my tank matured, I was told that it would probably become more acidic, which
it did. It has been around 6.6 for the past few months now. However, 2 weeks
ago, my Boesemani rainbowfish got injured in a castle ornament (which I have
since removed) incurring significant scale damage. I added Melafix
<...>
to the tank because I had heard great things about it speeding up healing. Well,
it worked. He was completely healed within a week.
<Might've taken seven days (or less) w/o...>
I was performing modest 10% water changes every other day for the length of the
7-day treatment in an attempt to keep the water pristine. During the course of
the treatment I only tested for ammonia and nitrite to ensure that my bio filter
was not being affected. Ammonia and Nitrite always tested at zero and continue
to do so to date.
After treatment ended, I put carbon in the filter (Eheim canister) and performed
a 25% water change. I tested my water parameters a few hours later and was very
surprised to find high nitrate levels of at least 40ppm, but could possibly have
been higher. It is very hard to differentiate on my test kit at any level higher
than 20ppm since the shades of red are almost identical.
<Mmm, often diluting samples by half (by adding "clean" water of the same
approximate volume...) can/will bring readings back "on scale">
My nitrates never exceeded 20ppm before this, as I religiously perform 25% water
changes every two weeks with a complete gravel vacuuming.
I theorized that the Melafix must have been responsible since it is a plant
derivative and probably contributed to the dissolved organics in the water.
Could this be the reason? Also, as I feared, my PH level has dropped to the
lowest range on my test kit (6.0-6.3).
<All are possible interactions, yes>
I have been doing daily 15% water changes since this occurred and the nitrates
seem to be dropping (hard to tell once in the "red" range on the test kit) and
my PH did go up temporarily last evening to 6.4, but had dropped again by this
morning. I don't wish to stress my fish, who all appear fine at the moment, so I
hesitate to do large water changes for fear of the PH rising too quickly.
<You are wise here>
Should I proceed with the daily 15% water changes, or do you feel that this is
insufficient to correct this issue in a more timely manner.
<I would continue as you are>
Is there anything I could have missed (besides the obvious of not using Melafix
in my display tank anymore). I thank you in advance for your assistance.
Michele
<Mmm, I think you're doing fine. I am NOT a fan of the "fix" products by API,
but there are folks here (WWM) who are a bit more charitable. Am a bigger
promoter of the use of real medicines. Bob Fenner>
Follow-up on High
Nitrates/low PH after Melafix use
Hello again,
<Michele>
I wrote to WWM earlier in the week regarding experiencing high nitrates
and subsequent low PH in my tank after using Melafix to treat a injured
fish.
<I recall>
For your reference, I have included my original correspondence which Bob
Fenner answered and was kind enough to assist me with. I have been doing
daily modest water changes to bring down the nitrate levels, which has
vastly improved (currently reading in the 20ppm range) but of course I'm
still working on getting it even lower. However, in tandem with the high
nitrates, my PH level dropped from 6.6 to the lowest range on my test
kit (6.0-6.3). Water changes have resulted in the PH rising to 6.4, but
this effect has been temporary, usually dropping back down within 24
hours.
<I would bolster the alkalinity here with at least a few teaspoons of
baking soda... or a commercial prep.... Covered on WWM>
I realize that larger water changes would yield quicker nitrate
reduction, but I don't want to stress the fish in case the PH does
increase too rapidly so I'm proceeding cautiously.
<You are wise here>
But despite the nitrates being reduced, the PH is not climbing back up
as of yet and stabilizing as I had hoped. I was somewhat puzzled about
this, so I went to your site and researched some possibilities as to
why. In doing so, I realized that I did not know what the KH or GH of my
source water was, so I purchased a KH/GH test kit to find out.
<Ahh!>
I live in New York, and we have very soft water, which has almost no
KH/GH, which I confirmed with the test (only 1 drop yielded a slight
tinge of color). I know now that this is not ideal, and that PH drops
can occur without enough buffering;
<Yes>
however I am very leery of adding any chemicals to the tank for fear of
rapid and/or wide PH fluctuations which can be much worse than a stable
but low PH.
<Best to make all such changes gradually, through/by way of the change
out water... modify it and add it to the system>
My father has been using the same source water for 30 years, and has
successfully kept tropical fish without the use of any chemicals to
alter PH or hardness. His philosophy is to keep fish that will adapt to
your conditions and thinks I am overly concerned about this.
<A valid concern; particularly if only keeping livestock that "enjoys"
softer/acidic water...>
I tend to agree with his philosophy but my real concern is the low PH
hindering the nitrifying bacteria.
<Also a valid concern>
I have read that at lower PH levels, the bio filter does not work as
efficiently.
<This is so>
Is this true, or does PH have to much more acidic for this to occur?
<Slightly alkaline is better... the forward reactions/nitrification are
reductive in nature... drive pH down... so having some biomineral in
place...>
If I continue with the daily water changes and get the nitrates down to
about 5-10ppm and keep them there with a more frequent maintenance
regimen (perhaps a weekly water change instead of bi-weekly), will the
PH increase to where it was a few weeks ago, or without sufficient KH
will it remain low no matter how many water changes I do?
<If there is no addition of alkaline material (esp. carbonate,
bicarbonate) from somewhere, the GH, KH will not change... If reductive
processes continue, the pH will drop...>
Forgive me if this has been explained somewhere on your site.
<An, no worries>
Be assured that I have been reading, but I find this issue of hardness
somewhat confusing and wanted to check with someone from the crew before
deciding on a course of action. Also, please note that prior to adding
the Melafix a few weeks ago, I did not have excess nitrates nor any
problems with a sudden PH drop so I am hoping that just keeping the
nitrate level extremely low will get my tank back to where it was a few
weeks ago. I had also read Neale's suggestions to some people about
using crushed coral in the filter to raise KH, but I don't want my PH to
rise by very much.
<Depending on how much, how soluble, this addition is very safe... will
not raise pH much, very quickly at all>
Since my source water is on the acidic side (6.6-6.8), my goal is to get
the tank PH as close as possible to my source water. Is it possible to
use the coral and only increase the KH and PH slightly rather than to
the basic side of the PH scale?
<Yes... could be placed in a filter, bag... in a container with your
make-up water... allowed to "soak" for a few days...>
I'm somewhat confused because I have been hearing/reading conflicting
information about their use. How do you suggest I achieve my goal of
increasing my PH to about 6.6 - 6.8 and stabilizing it?
<Mmm, the water changes you're doing... with the addition of a bit of
sodium bicarbonate (very safe) or a modicum of commercial aquarium pH
buffering product>
Once again, your advice is greatly appreciated and invaluable.
Michele
<Let's keep chatting this over till you feel comfortable with your
understanding of the underlying principle/s here... This aspect of water
quality (pH, alkalinity/acidity... "hardness") is too wordy in English
unfortunately... But once you grasp it... Cheers, BobF>
Re: Follow-up on Discovery of
Low KH after High Nitrates/low PH w/Melafix use 3/26/08
Hello Mr. Fenner,
<Just Bob please Michele>
Thank you so much for all of your assistance in explaining how KH factors into
maintaining PH. I have been doing some more reading and if I am understanding
correctly, the baking soda method needs to be replenished with each water change
(outside of the system in the new water) .
<Yes, this is best>
Since I'm not great at chemistry, and thus would be experimenting with the
amount to use to reach my goal, I fear that this leaves a lot of room for human
error.
<Actually, not much error possible. This practice, with Baking Soda is quite
safe>
So I think I feel more comfortable with a slow soluble carbonate substance such
as crushed coral or even crushed oyster shells and will experiment with a small
amount in the filter as a first corrective step to increase KH. The only crushed
coral I have been able to find however has aragonite mixed in as well. If I
understand correctly, this makes it more soluble, so is this still acceptable
for my purposes or would this make the tank too alkaline?
<No, not likely>
If not recommended for my purposes, I have also been able to locate crushed
oyster shells packaged as a "bird feed".
<Ahh! This material... usually some type of Dolomite ("Tapa Shell)... a compound
of calcium and magnesium carbonates CAN be very soluble... and a mess to
handle/deal with... too "cloudy" in preparation/use>
In the meanwhile I will continue with my water changes to further decrease the
nitrates and proceed from there. Thanks for the offer/opportunity to continue
chatting until I get a better grasp of the subject matter. I'm honored that you
would take additional time from your busy schedule to assist me.
Michele
<Am out in Malaysia currently... where am dreading the Net slow-down. Cheers!
BobF>
Re: Follow-up on Discovery of
Low KH after High Nitrates/low PH w/Melafix use 3/30/08
Good evening Bob,
<Mich>
I hope your trip to Malaysia is going well.
<Yes... but the Net is slow... and intermittent>
I did purchase the crushed coral and added a very small amount to the filter on
Tuesday. I figured I could always add more if needed. Since my nitrates are now
in 10ppm range, I've stopped the daily water changes and will continue as
necessary to keep them low. The PH was holding steady at 6.4 for a couple of
days without dropping.
Today it has increased to 6.6, so it seems that the coral is working. My KH test
kit still is reading very low (1 degree), but I'll give it some more time since
I seem to be making some progress. And speaking of progress, I actually managed
to talk my father into adding some coral to his filter as well.
<Ahh!>
I referred him to your site and our discussions; and I guess he realized that no
matter how long you've been in this hobby, there's always something to learn.
<Is so for me... and I am indeed an old timer in the trade, science and hobby>
Thanks again for your help. I have been enjoying chatting with you.
I will keep you posted on the progress of my tank, but I'm confident that the
coral will serve the purpose.
Michele
<Bob Fenner>
|
Fish suddenly sick, FW, pH
shock 3/3/08
Hi Crew,
This is unfortunately an emergency. I have been keeping my fish (6 zebra Danios,
3 Cory cats) in a separate tank for about a week and a half while their normal
tank cycles with added ammonia. The tank they're in now is a half-full 20 gallon
tank with a heater (temp has been constant at 74F) and bubbler instead of a
filter because the filters are in the normal tank, hopefully building up
bacteria. I have some "Ammo-Chips" in the temporary tank to soak up the ammonia
since there isn't any established bacteria. I've also been changing the water in
the temporary tank often with tap water conditioned with Amquel. I did this
yesterday (actually, I added about 20% additional water since there is extra
space in the tank) and I swished the net around to grab some of the floating
"gunk" and cleaned a lot of that out. All seemed to be well this morning, but I
came back tonight after being gone the whole day and my smallest Cory was dead
and the rest of the fish were looking very sick. Some were hanging near the top;
others at the bottom. They don't seem to be breathing hard, just very listless.
Ammonia and nitrite are zero. I don't have a nitrate test kit, but I change the
water regularly and I doubt it could make them sick this fast. It would seem
like it had something to do with the water being added or the "gunk" being taken
out, although I did what I always do (add Amquel and get the water to about the
same temperature as the tank water). I now have the fish out of that tank in a
Tupperware container with the bubble wand. I added some Prime and some Stress
Coat even though there isn't an ammonia or nitrite problem. (I didn't know what
else to do!) The water has been pretty cloudy in the tank, but I think it's
because there isn't a filter, only a bubbler for oxygen. If it were a lack of
oxygen they would have been showing signs of distress earlier. And if it was
poisoning due to the decomposing "stuff" in the water, wouldn't I see some
ammonia or nitrites? I have antibacterial food on hand and I'm going to feed
that to them, if they'll eat. I have no idea what happened, unless the water
wasn't dechloraminated well enough, but I feel like I always add more Amquel
than necessary just to be safe. I don't have any clues! They all look like
they're barely hanging on.. I appreciate any help you can offer.
Thank you so much,
Allison
Hey Crew,
I just realized the problem: pH shock. I tested the tank - pH 6.0 - and the tap
water - pH 7.8 or more. Basically, the tank and the tap are at opposite ends of
my testing kit's scale, I guess because of aeration in the tank bringing the pH
down. I guess all I can do now is just hope for them to survive. Please let me
know if there's anything else to do. I'm going to put them back in the tank
(since now they're in the Tupperware container).
Thanks,
Allison
<Hello Alison. Glad you figured out what the problem was. Yes, pH can make a big
difference to how well (or otherwise) fish settle in. Maintaining a steady pH
between water changes is essential. If the pH in your aquarium is dropping from
7.8 to 6 within a week, then you have a serious instability problem. Have a read
of these two articles:
http://www.wetwebmedia.com/FWSubWebIndex/fwh2oquality.htm
http://www.wetwebmedia.com/FWSubWebIndex/fwsoftness.htm
Essentially the problem is likely that your water has no carbonate hardness (use
the "KH" test kit for this) and so pH drops rapidly. One common mistake people
make is to use water from a domestic water softener: do not do this! However
hard your tap water might be, it's fine for most fish. In some ways hard water
is a positive asset.
http://www.wetwebmedia.com/FWSubWebIndex/fwhardness.htm
In the meantime, your fish should recover from the pH shock. Obviously don't
feed them, and don't fuss over them either, as that'll stress them. Leave them
somewhere dark and well oxygenated to they can recover at their own pace. If
they don't survive, at least learn from the experience and read up on water
chemistry. Note that everyone thinks they understand pH, whereas the pH value
itself actually doesn't matter all that much -- what matters is pH stability.
And for that, you need carbonate hardness. Cheers, Neale.>
pH drop, FW, no reading on
Alkalinity 2/25/08
I am having problems with my ph and don't know why. About two months ago I
got a new 45 gallon aquarium. I've had an aquarium for many years and never have
had a problem like this. I used much of the same water from my other tank. I got
a new HOT Magnum 250 canister filter. I used all the same decorations. The only
thing I added new was a banana plant. I took it out and threw it away after I
first had problems. The gravel I used is the same that I have in a smaller
aquarium. For about a month after I got it set up my fish were doing great. I
got some Blue Rams and they did good for about a week then died.
<!?>
I got some more and the same thing happened. The same thing happened with my
small new Green Severums after a few days (they didn't look good when they came
in so I didn't think much when they died). I just thought there was something
different with the fish because everything else was fine. Then suddenly
overnight my fish became less active, mostly Angels.
<... something very wrong here>
I checked the ph and it was about 6.2 and usually it is about 7.4 and our tap
water is around 8.0. Slowly I lost some bigger Angels that I had had for about 8
months and then the smaller ones died that I've had for about 3 months. Now I'm
only down to one smaller Angel. I was okay when the Rams and Severums died
because they were new, but when the Angels that I've had for awhile died I knew
something was wrong. I do a water change to raise the ph up. It goes up for a
few days then drops back down. The weird thing is everything else is doing good.
My Neon Tetras, Koi Swordtails, Boesemanni Rainbows, Green Tiger Barbs, small
Plecos, and Cory Cats are doing just fine. Why are just my Rams, Severums, and
Angels dying? Why is my ph dropping and what do I do to keep it up? Thanks for
your help.
Cole
<You have quite a mix of fishes... Perhaps the Cichlids are/were of "low
quality"... many imported ones are quite touchy. I suspect your water has low
alkalinity, and that you haven't read... Start here:
http://wetwebmedia.com/FWSubWebIndex/fwph,alk.htm
and the linked files above, part. Neale's piece "In praise of hard, alkaline..."
Bob Fenner>
Help!! Ph Crash??
01/13/2008
Hello WWM crew,
<Hello,>
This might be repetitive, but as always, got to congratulate and admire the
services you people do. If this question once again gets to Neale, I would like
to thank him very much for all the past help he has given me. Anyhow, I have a
very weird situation on my hands and hope that you could help.
<Weird away...>
I currently have a 170 and 55 gallon freshwater tank that I do a 50% water
change weekly with aged tap water (both tanks has been up for approximately one
year). As of last week, my PH value is at 7.6 for both my tanks (common stable).
As of today, I checked my water parameters and found that the PH for my 170
gallon tank is at 6.4!!!
<OK, that's a big swing and definitely not good. Not fatal, but not good. Does
suggest a lack of carbonate hardness, which is at least relatively easy to
rectify.>
I have two test kit that I verify with (API liquid test kit and Mardel quick
dips). This have never happened to me before. The only thing that I have done
differently since the last water change was change my brand of dechlorinator,
from Prime to Amquel+ and NovAqua+ due to the great reviews that they have
gotten.
<If one dechlorinator removes ammonia from the tap water but the other doesn't,
then the ammonia can result in a higher-than-expected pH reading. But a quick
check suggests that both Amquel and Prime remove ammonia. Not sure NovAqua
does.>
The tank does have a large piece of driftwood that has been in it for about one
year now.
<Bogwood will lower the pH by producing acids that neutralise carbonate
hardness. That said, a moderate amount of aged bogwood shouldn't have a huge
effect except in very soft water aquaria.>
I can't figure out what could be shifting the Ph so much. Could the new
dechlorinator be affecting my readings?
<Can't see why.>
This also seems invalid due to the 55 gallon tank reading normal as always. The
170 is currently equipped with three 405 Fluval canisters, and a Vortech MP40
powerhead, which apparently by itself pushes 3000gph.
I think I do have ample circulation. Total hardness for the tank reads
approximately 120ppm and total alkalinity at 0ppm.
<Ah, here's at least one issue. Alkalinity is essential to any aquarium. Total
hardness itself is of secondary importance, and is mostly about how fish
osmoregulate. Carbonate hardness (measured in degrees KH) is far more important,
as it tells you how well an aquarium prevents pH changes. As things stand now,
if you have zero alkalinity, which would suggest zero carbonate hardness as
well, your aquarium has next to no ability to resist pH changes. This is because
the other minerals in the water (the ones making total hardness) don't combine
with acids. All they do is float about in the water.>
Very awkward. Tank is currently stocked with one L25 Scarlet Pleco at 10" and
one 6" Flowerhorn cichlid.
Ammonia at 0, Nitrite at 0, and Nitrate at 30ppm. I have not seen any adverse
affect on the fishes as of yet. I plan on setting another batch of tap water
overnight tomorrow with dechlorinator and perform a change on Sunday.
Its early Saturday morning right now. Any ideas?
<Raising the carbonate hardness is essential for Flowerhorn cichlids, given
their Central American ancestry. I'd suggest making up a batch of Malawi Salts,
and adding these at a 25% to 100% dosage until you get the right set of pH and
carbonate hardness (i.e., KH, not total hardness) values for your needs. You can
buy these salts from stores, or you can make your own. Here's one handy-dandy
recipe for Rift Valley salt mix:
Per 5 gallons/20 litres
* 1 teaspoon baking soda (sodium bicarbonate)
* 1 tablespoon Epsom salt (magnesium sulfate)
* 1 teaspoon marine salt mix (sodium chloride + trace elements)
Mix well, dissolve into the bucket of water, and then add to the aquarium. Don't
do huge changes at once, but do water changes of 25% per day until the tank is
where you want it in terms of pH and carbonate hardness. I'd recommend at least
7 degrees KH, and ideally 10+ degrees KH, for most Central American cichlids.
You should find this prevents pH changes completely.>
Also, is it possible for water quality to remain cloudy due to insufficient
surface area for the bio load to attach to and stabilize and remain
free-floating? I really doubt that I am overfeeding since I feed usually once a
day and make sure all food is consumed. Right after a major water change, water
would be crystal clear for a day or two and would get cloudy again. It has been
like this ever since I started. No problem of this on my 55er.
<Curious. But no two tanks are the same.>
Lastly, any opinions on Prime vs. Amquel+/NovAqua+?
<None. Never used either.>
My only concern is the
concentration levels. Prime seems to be so much more concentrated, at 5 mL per
50 gallons of water. While, Kordon's product suggested dosage level is at 5 mL
per 10 gallons. Any thoughts on either product?
<Nope. All dechlorinators do the job, so I tend to buy whatever is on sale! This
sort of thing may matter more for fancy-pants marines, but freshwater fish
generally don't care so long as the chlorine is removed.>
Ok, that's all for now. All help is greatly appreciated. Thank you so much and
be safe. Andy
<Or as we say in England: "Be good, or if you can't be good, be careful."
cheers, Neale.>
Re: Help!! Ph Crash??
01/13/2008
Neale,
<Andy,>
Thanks so much for the help, again :) I will do as per your instructions.
Anyhow, any idea what could have caused the PH to shift so massively?
<All aquaria have a downward pH trend. What varies is the speed with which the
pH drops.>
My water at the tap (which I use for water changes) has a PH of 7.6, total
alkalinity of 120ppm, and total hardness of 250ppm. What happened to my
alkalinity and carbonate harness?
<If the pH drops, that means the carbonate hardness got used up! So you have two
options: do more water changes, so the pH doesn't drop far between water
changes, or else raise the carbonate hardness so the pH drops more slowly.
Simple, really.>
I do, do 50% water changes weekly.
<Clearly not enough given all the things going on in your aquarium. Every
aquarium is different, so all you can do is use test kits to monitor changes,
and then alter the maintenance regime to slow those changes down.>
Well, thanks for the help and hope all is well. Andy
<Hope this helps, Neale.>
pH Crash, fish symptomology
12/31/07
WWM Crew,
Happy New Year. Can you please tell me what are the signs and symptoms of fish
reacting to a pH crash?
<... often a loss of orientation, rapid to deep breathing, setting on the
bottom, death...>
And what causes a pH crash?
<Uhh, a loss of "buffering capacity" and action/substance to shift it (pH) in
one direction or t'other...>
How to save your fish when the pH crashes. Thanks in advance for your help -
Jean
<... please see WWM re freshwater, marine... pH... Your answers are there. Bob
Fenner>
Question on pH, FW
12/18/07
Hello, My water at my house is odd, it has a pH of about an 8.0?
<Ours is higher...>
and a carbonated hardness of around 2. I wanted to get a pH of 7.0 and a higher
carbonated hardness to stabilize the pH, so I set up a fake aquarium
<?>
and tried to obtain this. I had heard that sodium bicarbonate, baking soda
strengthens the carbonated hardness but increases the pH, so I thought of the pH
spectrum and came across lemon juice. I first used lemon juice to lower my tap
water pH of 8.0 to a pH of 6.5. I then proceeded to add some baking soda to
stabilize the pH by increases the carbonated hardness and at the same time
higher the pH to a closer 7.0 and it worked. would using lemon juice and baking
soda be a safe thing to do at the start of the setup of an aquarium to establish
a stable pH. It not like I used a whole lot of either of them as well, about 2
table spoons? of lemon juice and a teaspoon of baking soda in? a 10 gallon
aquarium made the ph and carbonated hardness perfect.
Thank you,
Jason
<Unfortunately the citrus has more to it than acid... I would start with more
"just water" here. Please read re:
http://wetwebmedia.com/FWSubWebIndex/fwmaintindex.htm
the second tray down. Bob Fenner>
pH and KH lowering, FW
11/26/07
hello! I have been struggling with PH and KH problems for 2 years now. I
used to keep African cichlids so lowering Ph and KH was never a problem-until I
decided to get tropical fish instead.
<Oh?>
In my 29 gallon tank, the PH rests at about 8.5 and the KH at 17. Something that
shocked me was that the GH tested at 2. (could high PH and soft water exist?)
<Ah, you're getting your wires crossed here. A general hardness test kit
measures calcium oxide. Some test kits translate the results into the equivalent
hardness in calcium carbonate for historical reasons (I believe this is
primarily in the US, but could be wrong). Regardless, the chemicals involved are
measuring calcium oxide. So, a general hardness reading of 2 degrees dH means
there is a low concentration of calcium oxide. Nothing more, nothing less. A
carbonate hardness test kit measures carbonate and bicarbonate salts, and gives
the result in a scale based on concentration of calcium carbonate. So, a
carbonate hardness of 17 degrees KH means there is a very high concentration of
carbonate and bicarbonate salts. Yes, you can have these two things happening at
the same time. Imagine a glass of water into which you'd added some salt and
some sugar. One test kit might measure salt, the other sugar. Simply because one
was high wouldn't mean the other would have to be low, because they're
independent variables. While it is *often* true that water with a high carbonate
hardness often has a high general hardness as well, there's no natural law that
says it has to be so. It's merely something that tends to happen for various
geological reasons.>
I also decided to test my tap water. The PH was a perfect 7, KH at 17 and GH at
2. I suspect my high KH to be altering the PH.
<Carbonate hardness does tend to raise pH, yes. But so too will ammonia, so
check that.>
I used to have rocks in my 29, but I took them out about a week ago.
They were boiled prior to, but I highly doubt this has anything to do with the
problem.
<Boiling calcareous rocks (such as tufa rock) will have precisely zero effect on
whether or not they raise the carbonate hardness.>
I have searched online a bit, and one recommendation was to mix water with
Hydrochloric Acid... sounds incredibly risky and dangerous, but could be worth
it.
<No, no, no. There's no point forcing the pH downwards if the carbonate hardness
is high. Try to understand this critical fact: pH doesn't matter, hardness does.
Fish (mostly) don't feel pH (though they certainly don't like rapid pH changes).
What directly affects them is hardness, because this controls [a] osmoregulation
and [b] the pH stability. Hard water, whether we're talking about high general
or carbonate hardness, is not intrinsically a bad thing, either.>
I understand that once the KH is at a stable level, the PH will lower and not
bounce back.
<No, quite the reverse. The lower the carbonate hardness, the less stable pH
becomes. That's why marine aquarists worry about carbonate hardness so much.
It's the "alkalinity reserve" that fixes pH. All tanks have a net tendency
towards acidification; tanks with a high carbonate hardness tend to resist this
extremely well between water changes, making the fish happy. Tanks with low
carbonate hardness experience rapid pH drops, and this makes fish very unhappy.
The art of soft water aquaria is finding ways to stabilise pH without relying on
carbonate hardness. This is not easy to do! For all practical purposes,
community freshwater tanks should be maintained at around 10 degrees dH and
upwards of 5 degrees KH where possible.>
Is there any product/chemical/other method you could recommend?
<None. First get a better understanding of your water chemistry and the
environment in your tank. For example, are the rocks calcareous? Is the
substrate? Then decide if there's really any point changing the hardness, given
hard water tanks are more stable environments. Livebearers (poeciliids and
Goodeids!), Central American cichlids, Rift Valley cichlids, rainbowfish,
Goldfish, Pufferfish, gobies and brackish water fish will all prefer hard water
conditions. The majority of barbs and catfish couldn't care less, and do fine in
hard water, including things like Corydoras, Plecs, and most hardy Asian Puntius
spp. Choosing fish from this list gives you masses of scope for fun, colourful,
weird, and challenging species. Since you won't be messing with water chemistry,
your life is much easier, and you can do big water changes to optimise
environmental conditions in the tank. A win/win situation.>
PS: RO/DI water is not really an option...
<Collecting rainwater works well if you want to keep a soft water tank. Cheap
and easy, and very 'green'.>
Thanks in advance
-Jon
<Cheers, Neale.>
High ph on FW aquarium
11/23/07
Hi, I only use RO water for my 55g which is very soft, but when I check my
aquarium water the reading is 7.0 to 7.2, what's wrong? My tank is planted and I
am trying to raise angelfish and so far only two are doing excellent. Other
fishes in the tank, tetras and one clown loach. Thank you, Edna
<Hello Edna. Why on Earth are you using just RO water in a freshwater aquarium?
No fish will thrive in pure RO water; you have to "cut" it with some hard water
so that it has at least some mineral content. Standard practise for community
fish is to mix RO water with hard tap water to get something with around 5-10
degrees dH. Generic Angelfish from the pet store (Pterophyllum hybrids)
certainly don't need particularly soft water, and even in the wild Angelfish
don't come from the same very soft waters that Discus do. They're more common in
the main Amazon river system rather than, say, the Rio Negro. Very soft water
also experiences wild fluctuations in pH unless you're taking specific measures
to prevent this, and fluctuating pH is much more harmful to a fish that a pH
that doesn't "seem" good compared with what they have in the wild. In other
words, Angelfish are happier at a steady pH 8.0 than at an acidic pH that keeps
bouncing around. So, please have a read of the article on Soft Water Aquaria
here,
http://www.wetwebmedia.com/FWSubWebIndex/fwsoftness.htm
. If you can tell me something about the general hardness (dH) and carbonate
hardness (KH) then we can try and find out why your pH is fluctuating. One last
thing: a neutral pH at 7.0 to 7.2 is absolutely perfect for just about every
common community fish except livebearers. So I'm not sure why you want to lower
it, and in any case, you should never fixate on the pH; what matters is the
general and carbonate hardness. Get those right, and the pH will do the right
thing all by itself. Cheers, Neale.>
Re: high ph on FW aquarium
11/25/2007
Thank you Neale for replying to my e-mail and for the information about the
water.
<Happy to help.>
I have a 5 in 1 test kit: Nitrate "0", Nitrite "0", Total Hardness (GH) 25,
Total Alkalinity (KH) 300 and PH 8.4.
<This is the tap water, right? Very similar to what I have here in Southeast
England. For most purposes, perfectly serviceable if you go with hard water fish
(e.g., livebearers and rainbows) and plants (Vallisneria, Egeria, etc.). Even
soft water fish like tetras, Corydoras etc will adapt just fine. But if you have
RO water anyway and want to soften the water a bit, then mix 50:50 with RO water
and you'll have something just about perfect. 10-12 degrees dH and 150 mg/l
alkalinity is an excellent target for a wide mix of community tropicals. Plants
will adapt to this very well, especially if other factors -- lighting,
nutrient-rich substrate -- are taken care of properly.>
My "concern" is that live plants: Amazon swords, mongo grass, Anubias and others
that I don't know the names and I keep in my tank, thrive better "in the soft
side of water" (I read this somewhere).
<Some Amazon Sword species actually prefer hard water so you need to check which
species you have. Most are adaptable and care much more about substrate quality
and lighting. Mongo Grass is a species of Ophiopogon, and will die underwater
anyway (it's a terrestrial plant) so I wouldn't bother with it at all unless you
like watching plants rot. Anubias spp. are all very adaptable and will happily
grow in quite brackish water, so they don't care in the least. Relatively few
plants actually prefer very soft water, and once you get below 5 degrees dH,
most will simply sit there looking unhappy. Something between 5-15 degrees dH is
just about perfect for a wide range of aquarium plants. Do buy/borrow one of the
many excellent aquarium plant books out there. Water chemistry is simply not an
issue for the vast majority of them. Most plants in aquaria fail either because
[a] they aren't aquatic plants to begin with, or [b] not enough light.
Everything else is icing on the cake.>
So much info out there and sometime it get too high tech and overwhelming for
me.
<I sympathise. One of the big problems with the Internet is that the sheer
volume of information published there isn't matched by the same level of
fact-checking or editing. Anyone can publish anything. So while books and
magazines might seem old-fashioned, they are at least offering a high standard
of information.>
Over all my aquarium looks very good and I love sitting for hours in front of my
tank enjoying my "little master piece".
<Absolutely! I don't have a TV set in my house, but I have to confess to
spending too much time gazing at my fish tanks just as if they were TV sets!
It's very addictive.>
Thank you again, Edna.
<Cheers, Neale.>
Low pH 11/8/07
Hi,
I am having a problem raising my pH. It stays at a 6.0. The alkalinity is at 40
and the hardness is at 300. I tried the pH increase but it didn't help and am
trying the proper pH 7.0, but read that it is bad for plants. I have several
bamboo, a short round leaf plant that I don't know what it is and an onion bulb
shaped plant. The tank has an assortment of community fish. What can I do to fix
my pH and will the treatment kill the plants?
Thanks so much!
Julie
<Julie, adding chemicals like "pH Up" to raise pH is generally pointless. Those
chemicals are really buffers. That is, they are designed to stabilise the pH at
a certain point once you've already brought it up (or down) to that pH level. So
if you have a Lake Malawi aquarium with lots of nice hard water, adding a "pH
Up" product will make sure the pH stays at the 8.0 value Malawi cichlids like so
well. But if your aquarium is way off base, these buffering potions will be
overwhelmed. In this case, you need to sit back and look at what's going on. You
aquarium has a low carbonate hardness. This means that the pH easily falls
towards the acid end of the pH scale. The way to remedy this is to add carbonate
hardness. There are multiple ways to do this, but the simplest is to make a
mixture of equal parts bicarbonate of soda, Epsom salt and marine salt mix. Add
a teaspoon to each bucket of water, and stir well. Test the carbonate hardness
and pH of the water. It should be much higher. If it's too high, repeat using
less of the mixture; if it's too low, repeat using more. What you want is
something around 100-200 mg calcium carbonate (6-12 degrees dH, 5-10 degrees
KH). This water should have a pH around 7. It will be perfect for a wide range
of community tropicals, with the exception perhaps of livebearers, which like
water that is more hard and has a higher pH. Tetras, barbs, Gouramis etc will
all thrive under such conditions, and the biological filter and plants will also
do their best. One thing: make these remedial actions slowly, changing no more
than 25% of the water per day. While aiming for neutral pH, moderate hard water
is ideal for the community tank, rapid changes in water chemistry can be lethal
to fish. As for your plants, the "onion" is probably Crinum sp., perhaps Crinum
thaianum, a lovely aquarium plant. Bamboo doesn't normally survive in aquaria,
especially when kept submerged. It might survive allowed to grow out above the
tank, but that's not really practical. Do be aware that many aquarium shops sell
non-aquatic plants to unsuspecting fishkeepers. It's a sad state of affairs
really. You need to know what plants you want, and THEN go shopping, and not go
shopping and come back with a bunch of mystery plants. Good luck, Neale>
Beginner needs help, FW... set-up... pH 11/08/07
I have been reading for days on your site. I appreciate all the information,
but have been unable to understand what is going on with my tank.
<Fire away!>
I have a small 10 gallon freshwater tank.
<Ah, too small for beginners in my honest opinion. Small tanks are unstable and
problems spiral out of control very quickly. Advice to other beginners: start
off with a 20 gallon tank if you want an "easy ride".>
I was using distilled water and had plastic plants with tetras and a guppy.
<Why? Distilled water is completely unsuitable for aquarium fish or indeed any
living creature. Tap water is much the best for beginners, though dechlorinated
of course before use.>
We kept the tank for about 6 months with no problems. Our guppy just died one
day.
<Surprised it took that long...>
We decided we wanted to have some ghost shrimp, an algae eater some live plants.
The ghost shrimp died right away.
<Not a surprise at all].>
We now understand they are not that hardy. We were told our water was soft when
they tested it at the pet store. they thought we could use tap water in our area
with some aquarium salt and prime.
<Sheesh. Pet store advice strikes back. Please, over the next few days remove a
portion (20%) of the water in your tank and replace with dechlorinated tap
water. Do not add salt. If your local tap water is soft and acidic, then don't
keep fish that need hard and alkaline water (such as guppies). Stick with
genuine soft water fish, such as tetras.>
Our ph seems to stay around 7.4 no matter what we do.
<That's a fine pH for most fish. And a stable pH is a GOOD thing.>
We added some sea shells as told to.
<Why?>
We drain and add every week and a half to two weeks. We have been doing about
the 20%.
<Change 50% per week. This is the cheapest and easiest way to keep a happy
collection of fish. Few problems can't be solved by dilution.>
Our tank looks beautiful, water looks clear, we ended up with 2 snails on the
plants.
<Water clarity is irrelevant in keeping fish. You can have clear water that
kills fish overnight, because ammonia (for example) is invisible. By contrast
the water most fish live in looks like milky coffee and yet they (obviously)
thrive.>
the water was running a little warm (80-82 degrees) but we changed our
incandescent bulbs out for the fluorescent.
<Good. Very few fish like water this warm, and some will have dramatically
shorter lives when kept thus. Aim for 25C/77F; no higher.>
There are some very strange tiny hair like, things for lack of a better word, on
the glass of the tank. They are tiny, barely can see them attached with one
piece with like three hair like things off them.
<If static and whitish, that's mould or bacteria. If static and green, it's
algae. If mobile and whitish, then nematodes. Not problematic in themselves, but
potential clues to other issues.>
Also we have sand in our tank instead of gravel.
<Sand is fine, just keep it clean.>
Do you have any advice for us?
<Read an aquarium book or this web site. Relying on local fish store advice can
be tricky. Shops want to sell you stuff, and largely don't care if your fish
live 6 weeks or 6 years, so long as you come back and buy more fish and other
products. Educating yourself is the key to solving your own problems, and using
your pet store as a resource for essential purchases.>
What do you think these little things are? Also, one of my tetras looks a little
stressed. His stripe does not look right like he has faded.
<Fish do lose colour when stress. Water quality, water chemistry, diet, bullying
can all be factors. Need more data.>
I am worried I have done something wrong. I did notice you said in many articles
not to overfeed. Our fish eat all the food at the top of the water when we feed.
We are very careful about that.
<Very good.>
Is my ph really messed up for another reason?
<A pH above 7.0 can be caused by two main things. One is good: calcium carbonate
in the water. This raises the carbonate hardness (measured with a KH test kit).
Guppies and other livebearers love carbonate hardness, and carbonate hardness
also buffers the pH in the tank, keeping it steady. The bad source of a pH above
7.0 is ammonia. So test for ammonia (or have the pet store do it for you).
Ammonia is a severe poison.>
Does the sand really mess up our tank?
<No. But not all sand is equally good. Some sand is calcareous (e.g., coral
sand) and will raise carbonate hardness and pH; other sand is non-calcareous
(e.g., silica sand) and has no effect on water chemistry.>
It seems like with plants we are reading a lot about gravel.
<Depends on the plants. Non-rooted plants like Java fern and Anubias couldn't
care less, and actually get unhappy (die) if stuck in the sand or gravel at all.
Most plants prefer sand to gravel, because the slightly anaerobic conditions in
the sand shift mineral ions into their reduced (as opposed to oxidised) states,
making them easier to absorb. By itself, plain gravel or plain sand aren't
really suitable for growing plants anyway, no more than land plants would grow
if you stuck them in a flower pot filled with gravel or sand. To get good plant
growth, you need to augment the substrate with something else, like aquarium
soil or laterite, that contains minerals like iron.>
Thanks for all your help.
L
<Hope this helps, Neale>
pH Level While Using Red Sea Floralbase 11/07/07
Hi,
I have recently set up a new 72gal FW tank. I have had water in it, Rena
xp3 filter, heater, and Corallife 65watt x2 for lights. I presently have
15 goldfish in it to help with the cycling.
<<A poor idea. Too much stress and likelihood of parasitic
infestation... RMF>>
My ph level has been at 6.0 from the start. I am using red sea
Floralbase, that's all, as I have a planted tank. I am wondering how to
raise the PH level to at least 7.0 for the types of fish I want (I have
a 10gal that has been established for 2 years now & I would like to take
those fish and move them over to the new one, that PH has been 7.0 - the
fish in the 10gal is neon tetra, black skirt tetra, 2 Danios and 1
Chinese algae eater). Is there some sort of PH up that I can use safely?
I do have several kinds of plants. My ammonia, nitrites and nitrates are
all within the proper range & are great.
Thanks
Kim
<Hello Kim. Two things here. Firstly, what sort of fish do you want to
keep? An acidic pH of 6.0 is actually very good for a wide range of
species. Most South American fish will thrive here, as will most of the
fish from Southeast Asia. Secondly, you need to clear up the difference
between pH and hardness in your head. Fish don't "feel" pH directly and
don't really care about it all that much; what matters is how much
mineral content the water has, because this is what has an impact on
osmoregulation (how they balance salt and water in their bodies). So,
what you want to check first is the hardness of your water now, and the
preferred hardness of the fish you want to keep. I'm guessing your water
is quite soft (i.e., a low hardness around 5 degrees dH). That's fine
for tetras, angelfish, Gouramis etc. But if you want to keep livebearers
or Rainbowfish, they need a higher level of hardness, at least 10
degrees dH and ideally well above that for livebearers especially. Once
you take care of hardness, then the pH will adjust itself pretty well
automatically. Hard water tends to have a high pH, and that high pH is
pretty stable. There are various ways to raise the hardness. The
simplest is to incorporate some calcareous material into the filter.
Crushed coral is one such medium. As the water washes past, the coral
dissolves, raising the hardness. Periodically you clean the coral to
wash away slime that coats it, and maybe once a year replace it with a
bunch of new coral. There are other methods too; any aquarium book
should discuss them, but if you want some more ideas, let me know.
Cheers, Neale.>
High ph and low alkalinity,
Discus sys. 10/22/07
Hello,
<Hi there>
I am a long time aquarium keeper who has been quite lucky over the years and
just let my tank be whatever way it balanced itself to be and have kept a
general variety of fish without any problems or turmoil.
That is until I decided that I want to keep discus. In talking to my LFS about
doing this it was recommended that I change some things within my tank before
purchasing discus otherwise I would just be wasting my money and their lives.
<Let's see>
All things recommended have been accomplished over the past year (not without
much appreciated help from you guys I might add) except one.
The main and most troubling change is "buffering-in" a lower pH. I have done
everything you have recommended; I changed to RO water to solve the liquid rock
tap water problem; I lowered my KH to 3dK; I incorporated several pieces of
driftwood; I began religiously changing out 20% of the water in the tank every
week; etc, but guess what? pH is still 7.4-7.6.
<This may not be an issue... Are the Discus you keep tank-bred and raised (i.e.
not wild-caught?)... If so, this pH range is likely fine>
I did try phosphate buffers which did a great job of keeping my pH where I want
it between 6.5 and 6.8, but caused an algae bloom, and dropped the KH to zero,
so no more phosphates for me thanks.
I have tried several other things to bring down the pH as well, including
allowing the detritus to build up in the gravel
<Mmm, not recommended>
which just brought about a blue-green algae problem and I have tried non
phosphate acid buffer which only chips away at the KH before disappearing and
allowing the pH to rise back up.
<Yes>
So this is where I am and I hope that you can help. I use RO water and add back
the minerals using Kent's RO right. I add 1.5 tsp to 15 gal, which results in a
TDS reading of 170ppm on an electronic probe, and an undetectable reading on a
calcium/magnesium GH titration test kit ( I don't know why GH is so low with
this product, nor do I even know if I should be concerned with it since the TDS
reading is high enough). I add KH by adding bicarb to attain a KH reading of
4dK. Then I use this water for my changes.
<Mmm, depending on the make-up (GH, KH) of your source water, I'd likely give up
the Kent's product and just add/blend some of this in with the RO>
I have heard much on alkalinity and carbonates to buffer against a drop in pH,
but what about buffering against a rise in pH?
<Is a/the same concept... a buffer "holds" or resists change in both
directions... depending on the "trend" in captive systems (most all are
decidedly reductive, as in reduction/oxidation... OILRIG, "oxidation is losing,
reduction is gaining...." electrons... Acids are proton donors, electron
acceptors... basic (not a pun) chemistry... Tanks tend to "go acidic" with
time... resultant from feeding, decomposition processes, crowding...>
What "stable" chemicals, and acidity buffering tests etc can be employed in the
fight against a rising pH?
<First, the discovery of alkaline/alkalinity sources... Likely substrate here...
perhaps more pre-eminently, the checking of your test gear as well....>
I already have my KH as low as anyone would recommend.
Thank you
SL
<Again, really... I would NOT be concerned with the mid 7's pH you state... IS
fine, esp. if the Symphysodon have been captive-produced... I would suggest
another 20% change of water (twice per week) to lower metabolites... Much more
of a likely issue than pH effects. Do please read this excellent piece by NealeM
here: http://www.wetwebmedia.com/FWSubWebIndex/fwhardness.htm
and the linked files above. Bob Fenner>
High Freshwater Alkalinity – 10/01/07
I work at a LFS, and lately, we've been having a significant problem with
our 900gallon freshwater system and super high alkalinity. We have done massive
water changes with both tap and R/O water in attempts to lower it, but to no
avail. We have even tried using club soda to bring it down!
The pH is staying at a consistent 6.9-7.0. We have drained each of the 36 tanks,
and nothing seems to be lowering the alkalinity. Please, if you have any
suggestions as to what may be the problem, I'm all ears! The tap water has
almost no alkalinity at all, so something, somewhere, in the system is keeping
it high. Thanks in advance for any help you can give!
-Erica
<Hello Erica. Assuming there's nothing in an aquarium dissolving into the water,
the water chemistry in a freshwater tank should be approximately similar to that
of the tap water. Regular water changes (say, 50% weekly) should dilute the
background acidification that happens as organic material (such as plant leaves
and bogwood) decays. So, there's really only two things that can be happening
here. Either there's something in the tank that's rapidly changing the water
chemistry, or your test kit isn't working. I can't see what else could explain
this. Obvious sources of alkalinity in freshwater tanks include the substrate
(coral sand for example), limestone rockwork, calcareous filter media, and so
on. Now, we're talking about alkalinity, but specifically what are the test
results? Marine aquarists use a number of methods of measuring alkalinity, such
as milliequivalents per litre, but in freshwater tanks the only measurement
widely used is degrees of carbonate hardness (KH). Is that what you mean? Let me
have the number and measuring scale, and we can discuss further. Finally, always
bear in mind that rapidly changing water chemistry -- even from "bad" to "good"
-- is potentially dangerous to your fish. Virtually all freshwater fish can
adapt to slow changes, and will prosper under conditions well outside those they
enjoy in the wild, provided they are given time to adapt. If all else fails,
take the "nuclear option" -- strip the tank down, remove all the substrate,
replace all the filter media, and re-cycle the aquarium. Assuming you do this
properly, the new tank should share the same water chemistry as your local water
supply. Cheers, Neale>
Can't win Alkaline/Acid battle
freshwater... – 09/29/07
We have lost 2 fish in the last week and believe it's high pH and/or high
Alkalinity.
<Unlikely. Most standard tropicals will adapt to fairly high pH levels,
especially if adapted over time. Better still, you can easily pick species --
such as livebearers -- that thrive under such conditions.>
Our store guy said our tank's pH "is as high as a saltwater tank (7.8)" It is
8.5 now.
<That is somewhat high. But even 8.0 is well within the tolerances of things
like Corydoras and domesticated angelfish.>
So he's caused us some concern as we cannot get the alkaline or acidity
measurements to go down.
<You should really fixate on the pH. It's a red herring. Find out what the
general hardness (dH) and carbonate hardness (KH) are, because these are the
critical water chemistry values. Then do an ammonia test -- ammonia will raise
pH dramatically. Ball park figures? For standard tropicals, anything up to 20
degrees dH and 10 degrees KH are fine. Above 25 degrees dH, 15 degrees KH you
want to concentrate on species that like hardwater: livebearers, Central
Americans, Rift Valley cichlids, brackish water fish, etc.>
Both are very high on the test strips we use. (I thought this was impossible?)
<Give me NUMBERS, not your opinion!>
About our tank, it's a 10 gallon, freshwater. We have no plants, coral, nothing.
<What's the water right out the tap? In a reasonably stocked aquarium where you
perform water changes on a weekly basis taking out 50% of the water at a time,
the water chemistry in the aquarium should be as close as Dammit to the water
out the tap.>
Has a filter/aeration system and fluorescent lighting.
<OK, but if the filter is underpowered, you'll have ammonia too. That'll raise
the pH very quickly.>
Everything I found on WWM seemed to say 8 to 8.5 is normal.
<Define "normal". As I say, a properly maintained aquarium should have water
chemistry essentially identical to your local water supply.>
What should we do?
<First, sit back and take stock. Water doesn't suddenly change water chemistry
for no reason. If you have hard, alkaline water out the tap, then nothing you
can easily do will change that. Buy hardwater fishes, and they'll thrive, and
you won't have to worry about anything. If the water is neutral and not too hard
out the tap, then your very high pH is coming from somewhere. Ammonia is the
common explanation -- either poor filtration, or from chloramine used to treat
the water by your local water board. Chloramine breaks into ammonia and chlorine
when treated with traditional dechlorinators, so check your dechlorinator
removes chloramine AS WELL AS chlorine. Not all do.>
Tank is my ten year-old son's and he is becoming discouraged
enough to give up aquarium which I think has been good for bldg
responsibility.
<Teach your son that things go wrong whatever you're doing. The way over these
hurdles is to study the problem, try out ideas, ask for help, and then move
forward.>
So I'm mostly confused at this point.
Thanks for your great website by the way.
Eric Jensen
<Get back to me with water chemistry measurements -- dH, KH, and ammonia -- and
we can perhaps solve this for you. Cheers, Neale>
Filters and pH questions 9/26/07
Our tap water here in Oregon is very very soft (dH 2-3), but they use sodium
hydroxide to raise the pH to 7.7 so as not to rust pipes.
<What a horrible set of water conditions... very soft, but slightly alkaline.
Nothing much really likes these conditions.>
It quickly drops to 7.2 or so in the tank.
<Well that's lucky.>
Is this OK for cardinal tetras, Apistogramma, Loricariids? Soft water Amazon
fish seem to be doing well.
<I'd be tempted to add a certain amount of a pH-down product to reduce the pH to
exactly 7, while increasing its buffering capacity. On its own, very soft water
tends to fluctuate in pH quite a lot. This is not good. Standard pH-down
products (usually sold as bottles, and you add a bit to each bucket of water
just like dechlorinator) stabilizes the pH at some value. In hard water they're
a bit of a waste of time and money, but in very soft water such buffering
solutions (as they're called) can be very helpful.>
Also, I have a Rena Filstar filter. Has the standard 2 layers of foam, a bag of
carbon (bio chem Zorb) and a layer of micro fleece pads. Was thinking of
replacing either one of the layers of foam or the carbon with either some
ceramic biomedia or keta peat nuggets.
<Bin the carbon. Total waste of space. In very soft water, the filter bacteria
tend to be less happy than in hard water (they like hard, alkaline water best of
all, and stop working completely below pH 6). So concentrate on adding as much
biological media as possible to get the best water quality. Choose whatever
according to your budget and preferences. The main thing is that the filter
should have not less than 4x the volume of the tank in turnover per hour. In
other words, for a 100 litre tank, the filter must have a turnover of 400 litres
per hour.>
That's a lot of foam sponge, and maybe the carbon is not so necessary. The peat
would lower that NaOH induced pH.
<Don't use peat. Peat is wonderful stuff in aquaria if you know precisely and
absolutely what you're doing. But peat can rapidly change the pH and its results
are completely unpredictable. In very soft water with practically zero buffering
capacity, you could easily drop the pH from 7.2 to 6.0 overnight if you added
too much, and this would kill your fish. Instead, use the buffering solution
mentioned above, following the instructions on the bottle, and performing pH
tests every day or two at first until you get a sense of how pH varies in the
tank. What you're after is 7.0 day in, day out.>
What do you think?
<Messing with pH is something a lot of aquarists get into trouble over. There's
a very good argument for not thinking about pH at all, and focusing instead on
general and carbonate hardness. Both of these have a much bigger impact on the
fish. With your very soft water, the KH value is likely to be very low, and as a
result water chemistry stability practically non-existent. So your job is to
stabilise water chemistry. Adding buffering solutions to the water will do this.
This becomes more important the more fish you add, because the loading of the
tank is positively correlated to water chemistry stability as well. In other
words, heavily stocked tanks experience a drop in pH more quickly than the same
tank would if lightly stocked (a process called acidification). So, move slowly,
research the water chemistry topics here at WWM, and measure pH regularly to
check that acidification isn't getting serious. Cheers, Neale>
High ph, hard water-Oscar – 09/14/07
Dearest Crew,
I have extremely hard water and have 5 freshwater tanks. I don't completely
trust dipsticks but I think this one is probably reasonably accurate. It says
total hardness (GH) is 300 ppm and total alkalinity (KH) is barely under 300
ppm. We have well water with no chlorine or anything. I took it all with a grain
of salt until I tried softening & lowering the ph with buckets of test water. I
didn't want to put anything in the tanks until I knew what the end results of my
bucket tests were. I've been reading extensively the past 4 wks on WWW about ph
(something I never understood until I found your crew). The more I read the more
concerned I became. I try so hard to feed the right food for each fish, give
them plenty of room, keep ammonia, nitrites and nitrates all always '0' by quick
3-4% daily water changes. I want to take care of them right because they're my
little charges and they only have me to do it.
My 'newest' fish is my now 4" red Oscar. I've him about 2
months. Lord, I love that wiggly little beggar fish. I care very much for my
Severum, Goldfish & Blood Parrots but I'm completely enthralled with this little
Oscar. I was lulled all these years by the idea that "stable PH is better than
unstable proper PH" but now I'm wondering if I shouldn't have been so
complacent.
After finally understanding PH & alkalinity I'm worried about my Oscar because I
adore him so and my Severum who needs a considerably lower ph. The ph of my 4
day old aerated water
is 8 to 8.2, the ph in the tanks runs about the same according to my Aquarium
Pharmaceuticals liquid test tube kit.
I use pea gravel and inert smooth aquarium gravel in the tanks I'm concerned
about, old driftwood, no limestone or dissolving rocks of any kind.
I used a 10 gal tub of the aged hard water and put a big handful of peat moss
tied in nylon with a bubbler. It's been 2 days now and still at 8.2. I left the
peat moss in there and added the recommended amount of "Beckett PH Lower" to it.
It says it has 15% citrus acid. The pH immediately dropped to 7 but after just 8
hrs it had already risen back up to 8. That's the reason I tend to believe the
test even though it was a dipstick test. This water is well buffered, I just
wish it was buffered at 6-7 ph. It's not about to give up and let go of the high
ph for any length of time. I can't subject fish to these swings, obviously.
Do you think an 8 to 8.2 ph is far too high for my Oscar? (I know it is for the
Severum). Your Oscar facts said "Freshwater: pH range: 6.0 - 8.0; dH range: 5.0
- 19.0 was acceptable for Oscars. Yet all the FAQ's always say they need 6-7 ph
and medium water. If all other factors in his care are optimal, am I worrying
too much or worrying for good reason? HITH disease scares me badly and I want to
avoid it at all costs. I don't want to shorten their lives in any way.
I read several of (mainly) Chuck's references to mixing 80% distilled water with
20% tap water along with leaving peat moss in the tank. That sounds like
something I could easily do with no
trouble at all if distilled is safe to use. If it were only my 45 gal Severum
tank I could also just as easily get water from my brother's house, no big deal.
But my Oscar now has a 90 gal tank and I've decided on a 125 gal long tank the
1st of the year. That's a lot of water to be dragging home for water changes. If
you think the situation is dire enough I'll do research on an RO unit if I need
to. I also worry that if something happens to me or I end up in the hospital and
my husband had to do water changes he'd never be able to understand complicated
water changes. He could easily do them by aging our plain tap water though (with
me shouting orders from my hospital bed-ha!)
Could you please let me know if my ph is unacceptable for my Oscar? If it is,
I'll do whatever I can to change it the right way. If it's not that big of a
concern I can quit worrying so much about it.
It seems far too many people start mixing, changing & switching with the "If it
ain't broke, fix it till it is!" mindset and I don't want to do that.
I apologize for the length of this email. What you're doing for the aquarium
hobby is above and beyond the call of duty. I'm so thankful for your website.
Sincerely,
Mitzi
<Mitzi, the first thing to understand is pH is not important. Fish don't feel
pH. What they react to is something called total dissolved solids, or TDS. It
just so happens that high TDS tends to go along with alkaline pH and low TDS
with acid pH. But because pH is "easy" to understand, and TDS is "difficult" to
understand, aquarists often focus on pH instead of TDS. The analogy is IQ.
People often think a high IQ means someone is smarter than someone with a lower
IQ, but the reality is that all IQ measures is someone's ability to succeed at
IQ tests. There are lots of very skilled, capable people like surgeons and
artists and engineers who don't have particularly high IQ levels, and lots of
people with high IQs that do incredibly dumb things and don't have particularly
impressive careers. If you want to change the water chemistry in an aquarium,
what you need to focus on is the TDS, not the pH. Adding magic potions that
raise and lower pH is really wasting time and money. Yes, you can add pH-down
products to an aquarium where the water has a high TDS level. And the pH may
well become acidic for a while. But what you're actually doing is changing one
set of mineral salts to another (through an acid-base reaction). You aren't
removing those mineral salts, so you aren't softening the water in any
meaningful way. If it really was that simple, people wouldn't be spending $100s
on reverse-osmosis water softeners! If you genuinely want to put a soft water
fish into a soft water aquarium, you have two options: use RO water or use
rainwater. I do the latter, because its cheap and easy, but RO has the
advantages of convenience and perhaps greater safety if you live in potentially
polluted areas. Like Chuck suggests, I mix rainwater with hard tap water to get
the water chemistry I want. But adding pH-down chemicals to the water IS NOT an
option, so don't bother. Now, there is some misunderstanding about the water
requirements for Astronotus ocellatus. Wild fish are found in a variety of
habitats with both soft and moderately hard water. They have also become
established outside their natural range (e.g., Florida) where they are living
perfectly well in hard, alkaline water. According to Fishbase, which is based on
wild, not aquarium, fish, Astronotus ocellatus has a hardness range of 5-19
degrees dH, which places your hard water well within its tolerances. I can also
mention at this point that Oscars are routinely kept and bred in very hard, very
alkaline water here in Southern England. Wild Astronotus ocellatus may be a
little more fussy, but the aquarium strains aren't at all fussed. Looking at
your other fish: Severums are found in a range of waters including brackish
water, so they don't care. Blood parrots are some kind of hybrid of Central
American cichlids, so they actually need hard/alkaline water and tend to be
sickly went kept otherwise. Goldfish prefer hard/alkaline water as well. As I've
said many, MANY times most fish will adapt fine to a range of water chemistry
values -- what matters is stability. In fact, very few soft water fish fail to
adapt to hard water; the problems are usually adapting hard water fish (like
livebearers and Mbuna) to soft water conditions -- they usually get plagued with
fungus or simply die. Changing water chemistry is something to do ONLY if you
want to breed a particular species, AND even then ONLY once you are satisfied
you understand what TDS, KH and GH are all about and how they interact with the
conditions in the tank. If you don't understand them, then don't try and change
them. For routine maintenance in display aquaria, stick with the water you have
and concentrate on water QUALITY. So, in short, put the bottle of pH-down potion
away, and just enjoy your fish. Cheers, Neale>
Re: High ph, hard water-Oscar – 09/14/07
Neale (and WWM),
Thank you thank you for the super fast informative answer! You've really put my
mind at ease with such a complete answer. I've no doubt your response will help
many people. What a relief, truly. They've all done so well, grown so fast and
been consistently active for several years, it was hard to wrap my mind around
the possibility that the hard/alkaline water was hurting them. But that's
subjective because my own fish are all I have to compare to on a day to day
basis. I feel very much relieved after your answer. Messing with their pH is
something I certainly didn't want to have to do.
I've got dogs, cats, pet sheep, a pet rat, a dove and my other fish but this
little $6 Oscar from PetSmart has given me more laughs and relaxation than
anything else money could buy. Such intelligence and personality they have! I
think doctors should prescribe an Oscar instead of Prozac and they'd have better
results :-)
Thank you again for your words.
Mitzi
<Mitzi, glad to be of help. Yes, people do get worked into a lather over water
chemistry, but the bottom line is that with freshwater fish at least it is
relatively unimportant. Oscars are wonderful fish, and seem truly to have a
genuine affection for human companions. There are many stories about people
teaching them tricks and games. And yes, the therapeutic value of fish tanks is
quite well known. They seem to slow people's heart rates and generally reduce
stress. And simply working with animals and plants is just plain good for the
soul. So enjoy your animals, and good luck. Neale>
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