Goldfish troubles and woes...    3/27/06 Hello to the WWM Crew, <Michael> This is sort of a last result- since I know you specifically ask for people to do a lot  of searching before approaching you on a fish question. Alas, I searched and scoured the internet only to come up with waaaaay too much information on "Solving Ick" which has sort of left me spinning in circles and even more confused- considering how many Ick remedies there are in the world and how every fish situation is tragically different- poor fish- I think people need a fish license to own... I even asked the caveman at my local pet store who only replied in a series of grunts thrusting a bottle of Maracide in my direction. <A good product... and safe> AnYwHo- my quick background: I have recently (cluelessly) joined into the mighty world of fish obsessed people. A month ago  I purchased 1" fancy goldfish in a little bowl for my partners "Golden" Birthday. I figured "a goldfish goes in a bowl!" ~ how common sense" <By the same token, what is "star" or "fish" have to do with the commonly nomened asteroids?> This was before I went online and realized the horrors of goldfish bowls and the complete misconceptions about the sizes and life spans of these little creatures general. <Ah ha!> It's like a goldfish Holocaust out there! <Well put> People shouldn't be aloud to sell these little guys with out educating people to know how to properly take care of them. <We do our best...> What started as something that would be a cute decoration on my desk has now escalated into two fancy goldfish (Rupert & Marlin) in their very own 20 gallon mansion (10 gallons per fish). <Ah, good... great even> I have become quite the goldfish crusader- educating everyone I know about how to take care of goldfish- and defending the fact that they need the space I have given them ( basically People think I have completely lost my mind and can't fathom two tiny fish in a large tank- until I forward them links online) I've really have grown to love my little Rupert (And I'd like to try and raise him to his 5 to since inch potential size) - I'm going about all the best methods and research to do so. My Dilemma: Which is why I was very upset to see after all my hard work- he has now broken out in a case of ICK (small little white specs on his tail fins and back body) The minute I realized this- I ran out and got Maracide- and placed 4 cap fulls ( 2 per ten gallons)  into the tank. The fish seemed to be swimming at the surface of the tank afterwards- breathing the surface air.  I'm curious if this is the best way to treat this disease since they seemed to react badly to the medicine. Marlin (who I bought and added one week ago- did he cause this out break?) <Maybe so> has no signs of ick yet- should I Quarantine Rupert back to his bowl? <All need to be treated, including the system itself> Won't that stress him more? <Better that than the alternative> Some people have suggested Salt treatment- Others Raising the temperature (which doesn't seem to be appropriate since I read Goldfish like cold water. <You are correct here> which leads me to another small problem I'll ask about next) My most important question is- how long should I use this product? <Two weeks or so> It says I should only use on "day one, day three, and day five". Could you be anymore ambiguous than that?. <Mmm, I used to help/respond to Mardel's  1 800 calls...> Do I do it again on day 7? <Yes I would> It also doesn't even say how to administer this medicine into the tank- should I change the water frequently or not at all? <I would monitor water quality, ammonia and nitrite, keep these under 1.0 ppm maximum, and if/when doing water changes, re-add the treatment> Another note- I live in a pretty warm  pre-war apartment building in Forest hills, Queens. <Holy WPA!> I have no control over the heating of my apartment which stays at around 72-75 degrees- mainly due to an infestation of tiny constantly cold old ladies. <Watch this...> The thermometer in my tank says the water temp is about the same- is this too warm for my goldfish? <No, tis fine> Is there anyway to cool the tank? Open the window near the tank? <Definitely not> I appreciate any help you can give me- I'd like to try to have these little guys stick around for a while. I am an illustrator who creates my own kids books- in fact I even copyrighted an Idea on creating a little kids books that teaches little kids how to take care of goldfish! <Ahhh! I do encourage this>   Maybe help goldfish out across the country- wouldn't that be cute, funny, and educational? <Home run!> Goldfish bowls will only be used to hold spare change. <A worthy utility> Below is a link to my website where you can see some of my artwork- and I've also attached pictures of my little friends (pre Ick) and their new home. <Thank you for this> I thank you for your help and advise in advance (AND for educating countless of other clueless fish owners life myself) And I also apologize in advance for my ..lengthy.. cry for help- I hope it was at least somewhat entertaining. Cheers, Mike DiMotta www.michaeldimotta.com Ps. Will you respond to my email or will my email be added to your website? <Both. Mike, do add Aquarium Salt here as well... Cheers, Bob Fenner>

P.P.S - Can you Tell by the pictures whether Rupert and Marlin are Male or Female? <Mmm, nope... Have to be much larger, and "in the mood" so to speak. See WWM re Goldfish Reproduction FAQs. BobF>

Re: Bob F: Goldfish troubles and woes...  - 03/27/06
Hi Bob,
<Miguel>
(My original letter below) -
I appreciate the Quick Response and advice- I'm sure Rupert would thank you
too if he ... well... wasn't a fish.  Curious about the "Holy WPA" though..
<Oh, an acronym: "Work Progress Administration"... likely built through their auspices>
I'll keep an eye on his water levels and the little old ladies- both could get pretty out of control.
<Agreed>
I shall keep you posted on his recovery and my story- I may have further questions- is it ok if I continue to direct them your way?
<Shore>
Thanks again!
Cheers.
Mike DiMotta
<Welcome. BobF>

Re: Bob F: Goldfish troubles no more! - 03/29/06
Hi Bob,
<Mikael>
(Past Correspondence below)
I just wanted to let you know Rupert is doing just swimmingly (literally as well as figuratively because he is a fish)
<Sounds good>
The last of the ick seems to have fallen off of him during the night- he now seems to be ick free and proud to be. I vacuumed the tank this
morning to see if  I could suck up any of those ickers before the hatch and re added the treatment and some salt- which I will keep up
for another week or so -as suggested.
<Ah yes>
All water levels seem to be fine and Marlin is also still ick free (though he keeps going after the bubbles that come out of the aerator
which he thinks is food... not the brightest bulb in the batch but we still love him).
We were also very proud to see that Rupert has become the star of "FAQ About Goldfish Diseases, page 19"-see now that is a fish with
Charisma! True star quality. I knew Rupert would go places, the minute I found him in "Petland Discounts"!
<These are actually quite nice quality Ryukins>
Thanks again for all your help, we'll be in touch!
Mike
<Real good. BobF>

Red Spots on Bubble Eye Goldfish Sack    3/27/06
Hello,
<Eric>
I have a bubble eye goldfish that has been in a 55 gallon aquarium for approx 8 months.  Recently he has developed something on one of his cheek sacks.  It is a reddish thing that is hard to describe.  It looks like it could be a blood vein that runs for approx half of his cheek.  However, closer to his body it is bigger and looks like a large amount of very small red spots.  These appear to be on the outside of the sack but it is hard to tell if they are or are part of the sack.  Since I can't get a good look, I can't tell if it is something normal, like a vein, or an infection of some type.
<Good description>
The fish itself seems to be healthy, eats fine and has plenty of energy.  Despite what I've read this evening about keeping bubble cheeks in large aquariums, he does fine and has no problem swimming to the top to get his food.  For now, I've isolated him in a one gallon setup with an air stone but don't want to keep him there long.  
I've given one dose of an anti-bacteria medicine (Formalin, Benzalkonium Chloride)
<This is more of an "anti-life" compound... dangerously toxic to all protein-base... including you>
the guy at the fish store thought might help.  I'm just not sure if the fish is actually infected or if this streak/spotty thing is normal on the sacks.
Any advice would be greatly appreciated.
<These bloody markings are common in such bulbous eyed varieties of fancy goldfish... come and go with waning/improving water quality, nutrition, mood... and mainly physical traumas (bumps in the night). I would return this fish to the main tank and not expose it to biocides... and not worry. Bob Fenner>

Black Moor Goldfish    3/27/06
Hi guys
<Tash>
I recently saved two black moor goldfish from a guy who was treating them very badly indeed, they were in a tiny little tank with no air pump, the water had not been changed for at least 6 months, and they have white spot (I think), so I took them home with me and put them into a lovely new home, and they seemed so much happier.  However, the bigger one of the two has started to bully the other little one, it chases it, bites its fins, pushes it around etc etc.  
<Quite common... aggression, mostly due to crowding, lack of decor>
I have separated them both but they don't seem to be very happy!!  Any advice on what I should do would be much appreciated, is this actually bullying, or are they trying to mate?? I really don't know!
Many thanks
Tash x
<Mmm, nope. Need larger quarters... likely twenty gallons now, forty plus in time. Bob Fenner>

My goldfish friends Mauricio and Damian... define friend   - 03/26/2006
I have two young fan tail goldfish. The problem is that I did everything wrong for the first couple of weeks not knowing it. I kept them in bottled water and in a 1.66 gal. tank. originally I had had three goldfish but I already lost one he was the big guy of the three. So I've been trying to get things right for them, like, finally. I put them in a ten gallon tank, at first they seemed to be happy, now they just sit at the bottom of the tank all day.
<Takes a while (weeks, months) to recover from the previous insults/challenges>
It seems they only come up when it's feeding time. Problem #2 is that they seem to be losing their appetite to top it. they are starting to behave like the big guy did just before he passed away on me.
<This system is not cycled...>
They had started to develop fin and tail rot, I put them on meds and it stopped, now they seem to be losing the color of their fins and tail, it's getting whitish. I hope you guys could help me out here.
<Only you can... read here: http://wetwebmedia.com/FWSubWebIndex/gldfshsystems.htm>
  One other thing is that I don't seem able to get rid of ammonia. I use up to 5 times the dose of prime, but the ammonia levels never get down to 0ppm they stay at 1ppm, the water I prep for their water changes promises nothing better than what they're in at the moment as far as ammonia levels goes. I feeling pretty desperate about this.
  I try to feed them peas but either they don't know how to eat it or I don't know how to feed it to them. I don't want to lose them But it already looks like they're going, please help.
   <Read... and soon. Bob Fenner>

Fish are dying everyday... Poor Grammar and just not reading   - 03/26/2006
I bought a 20 gallon tank and six goldfishes.  bought the start-up kit, let it run for 48 hrs, had filter, bubbles, gravel, and then added the fishes.  the very next day morning one of the fishes was missing!!  it was gone.  we searched the gravel, the decorations, even the filter.. no signs. could the other gold fish eat it?  I did not know.  anyway, it is still a big mystery.  then, everyday one by one three other fish have died.  now, I have two left, inactive, lying in the upper corner of the tank, not moving, not eating, and they have some white substance on their bodies, and one of them tries to swim they shed something white too.  they have lost the shine, and look so ill. I feel so bad n guilty.  also, the bubbles we have set up is leaving an inch of bubbles on the surface of the water. is this normal?  I think I may have overfed as I don't know what else is the reason and its been only a week.  there is also some white web like things forming on the gravel, which I guess could be from the food flakes remaining.  I don't know and feel bad as I got this for my daughter on her b'day as a gift.  if all the fish dies, what do we do?  how do we restart?  clean the tank, from first, set it up for 48 hrs or do what? really really need help.
<.... Your English is atrocious... and your answers are posted on WWM... Please see/read: http://wetwebmedia.com/FWSubWebIndex/gldfshsystems.htm
and the linked files above. Bob Fenner>

Goldfish With High Nitrates   3/24/06
Hi Bob Fenner,
< Chuck, this time.>
I have two gold fish (one's a common gold fish and other is a comet) in a 40 gallon tank.  I've had them since early 2003 and they are both a fairly good size (say 7 plus inches.
My concern is that my nitrate levels are sky high and I can't seem to get them down regardless of doing frequent water changes, adding buffers as directed, reducing food amounts, and just regular tank maintenance.  I'm now changing 10% of the water weekly and changing the carbon filter every 4-5 days. The common goldfish now demonstrates this floating behavior.  When he rests and is not actively swimming he floats with his fin up.  He was flipping right over but he seems to do it less now but is still imbalanced.  This has been going on for just over three weeks now.  Some days he seems to get better.  The folks at the pet shop said I should feed them sinking pellets so that way they don't swallow too much air and get it trapped in their bellies.  I'm wondering if this is really the case since I haven't seen anything to that effect on the website FAQs section.  Can you help me sort out what is really happening in the tank?
< The high nitrates have stressed you goldfish and they may be starting to get an internal bacterial infection. A big feeding of floating pellets could cause this condition too, but I think it would go away after awhile. Start by doing a 50% water change, vacuum the gravel and clean the filter. Check the nitrates in your tap water. Agricultural areas tend to have high nitrates in the ground water from years of crop fertilization. Feed once a day and only enough food so that all of it is gone in two minutes. If they don't improve after a couple of days then treat them with Metronidazole.
I read about introducing plants into the aquarium but the two fish are rather aggressive with plants and won't let them grow.  Is this another symptom?  Please advise. Thanks,
Christine
< Goldfish are not really aggressive but rather hungry and continually nibble and tear plants up.-Chuck>

Black Moor Goldfish ... dis.?   3/24/06
Hi guys
<Tash,>
I recently saved two black moor goldfish from a guy who was treating them
very badly indeed, they were in a tiny little tank with no air pump, the
water had not been changed for at least 6 months, and they have white spot
(I think), so I took them home with me and put them into a lovely new home,
<Very noble, but let's make sure that you're doing everything right in their new home.  First of all, how big is it?  Goldfish need about 10 gallons per fish, believe it or not.  They are heavy waste producers, and anything less is not enough to properly dilute all the waste they produce!  Second, is there tank cycled, are you able to test their Ammonia, Nitrite and Nitrate levels?  Here are a few articles, one about cycling an aquarium, one about Goldfish tanks and one about goldfish feeding that should help you out:
http://www.wetwebmedia.com/FWSubWebIndex/fwestcycling.htm
http://www.wetwebmedia.com/FWSubWebIndex/gldfshsystems.htm
http://www.wetwebmedia.com/FWSubWebIndex/gldfshmalnut.htm >
and they seemed so much happier.  However, the bigger one of the two has
started to bully the other little one, it chases it, bites its fins, pushes
it around etc etc.  I have separated them both but they don't seem to be
very happy!!  Any advice on what I should do would be much appreciated, is
this actually bullying, or are they trying to mate?? I really don't know!
<Def. their environment.  Read the articles above, Goldfish will turn aggressive towards each other if they are in too small a tank, if their water quality is very bad, if one of them is sick, or lastly if they are trying to breed.  They usually aren't of breeding age until their bodies are 3-4 inches in length.  Typical breeding behavior includes the male nudging/pushing the female's vent; I don't think this is breeding behavior.  Good luck!>
Many thanks
Tash x
<Jason N.>

Stressed Goldfish/Perfect Water Conditions   3/23/06
Hi,
<Hello there>
I have so appreciated your help in the past, and I need some more advice.  We have a 20 gallon tank with Whisper 20 filter that's been cycling for over 10 weeks.  We started with two very small fancy goldfish, an Oranda and a fantail.  We started growing lots of algae by week 3, and although I never observed an ammonia or nitrite spike I believe cycling has occurred because of the algae growth (I test for ammonia, nitrite and nitrate weekly.)  Because of what I had read on this site and others, we fed very sparingly at first and I probably cleaned the tank too much.  I did 20% water changes with vacuuming every three days for the first couple of weeks, then went to once a week.  I always treated the replacement water with conditioners and made it sure it was temperature matched.
<You sound very conscientious>
From the beginning the fantail was always very energetic, constantly scrounging for food and acting almost manic.  After three weeks it started to act listless and to keep its upper fin clamped.  Fearing poor water quality, I did two water changes with a couple days in between, but we suddenly lost the fish a few days later.  The Oranda seemed perfectly happy so we decided to carry on and wait several more weeks, to make sure the tank had cycled before we added another fish.  We did add a mystery snail, who has been having a great time feasting on the algae.
At around 8 weeks we added another fantail, this time a much larger fish (body is two inches long).  Like the first fantail, it has been very energetic, almost manic in its quest for food.  It also looks like its gills are a little irritated, and it tends to open and close its mouth almost constantly.  But for the past two weeks it's looked pretty healthy (top fin always up), and the Oranda has been much less shy now that he has a tankmate.  We feed flake food once a day, and have also given steamed peas (pinched out of their shell,) blanched spinach, and steamed lettuce a couple times a week.    
<Good>
Our problem is that the large fantail started looking ill a couple of days ago.  He's swimming in one place, top fin down, and looking depressed.  He seems to be constipated.  From time to time I've seen large dark feces trailing from his behind, and he seems swollen in that area like he's having trouble digesting.  I don't know if he's having problems passing the spinach we fed last week, which I thought was supposed to be much healthier for him than the fish flakes.
<Is... and should pass>
My eyes are going bleary from reading your website, and I've concluded that the only things that might help are to discontinue feeding fish flakes for a while, feed some more roughage and try adding salt.
<Yes, this is what I would do>
Here's my questions:
1)  Should I add some salt?
2)  Do I use aquarium salt, or Epsom salt?
<Yes, a bit of both>
3)  What is the dosage?  Do I add it all at once, or work up to a specific dosage having added it gradually?
<Is posted on WWM: http://wetwebmedia.com/FWSubWebIndex/saltusefaqs.htm>
4)  How do I add the salt to the aquarium?  Should it be added directly, or only in the replacement water?
<Pre-dissolved is best>
I am confused -- if the dosage is 12 teaspoons for a 20 gallon tank, for example, do I add that full amount to my 4+ gallons of replacement water, or just 3 teaspoons each time I change water (which is only once a week?)
<Only replace with water changes.>
5)  Will the salt hurt the other fish or the snail?
<Might harm the snail>
I don't have the resources to set up a quarantine tank.
5)  I also picked up another product at my LFS, a water conditioner called Stresscoat.  Any experience with this?  Should I use it instead of salt, or if the salt doesn't help?
Thank you so much for any advice you can offer,
Fish Mama
<Use this AP product with new water changes only. Do know that goldfish are not "quite" what folks tend to believe... That is, they're not good "beginner" fishes... Though they've "put up" with humans for centuries, today's are not often strong, well-handled and cared for... and are very often lost within days to weeks of being acquired by aquarists... from simple cumulative stress and consequent challenges. Bob Fenner>

Goldfish disease enquiry   3/21/06
Dear Sir/Madam,
<Karthik>
My name is Karthik, I'm from India. I have a goldfish aquarium of dimensions 3ft(length)X 2ft(breadth X 2ft(height). My aquarium was pretty good and the fish were in very good conditions. I have 5 orandas(1.5 inches long), 1 ryukin(1 inch long), 1 Oranda (3 inches long) and 2 fantails and 2 Veiltails (all 1.5 inches long) and a pair of Pearlscales (both about half an inch long).
  From the past 3-4 months, I had started observing a few problems- My fish were found scratching and flashing, and some had developed a mucus coat and reddish patches near the base of the caudal fin and one more thing that surprises me is that they are lethargic and sit at the bottom only during the daytime from say 11am to 4 pm or so), but the fish are eating properly and they also sort of become normal during the night and they even beg for food typical healthy goldfish behaviour). I have not introduced any new fish or new plant for almost a year and hence the chance of infection from some contaminated fish store goods can be ruled out. One more thing I forgot to tell you was that almost all the affected fish have a reddish patch along the sides of their bodies between their bellies and the base of the caudal fins.
<Environmental...?>
My initial diagnosis was that the problem was skin flukes but after going through some articles on the web,
<But where would they come from? Live food? Plants?>
I am now puzzled because even Trichodina apparently has similar symptoms. Could you tell me what exactly could be the problem with my fish and what could be a reliable and safe treatment?
<Only way to tell for sure is to examine samples of slime under a microscope>
I have tried a salt bath to remove the mucus coat and then treat them with potassium permanganate for 2-3 days. The treatment seems to work and the fish become normal, stop scratching, and the reddish patches disappear. But after I put them back into the main tank, the problem reappears in about 2-3 days and the same saga repeats. Please Help!
Expecting your reply soon,
Thanking you,
Karthik Kashyap
<Mmm, well, you could treat as it the Protozoan Trichodina were present, and/or for flukes... But I would first try to discern if you have a problem with your water quality here. Do you have tests for this? I do encourage you to start a series of good-sized water changes, add aquarium salt as well. Bob Fenner>

Re: Goldfish disease enquiry   3/23/06
Dear Sir,
<Karthik>
The ammonia, nitrite and nitrate levels are all in control. Let me clarify that this is a well established aquarium for more than a year. The gravel is vacuumed once every week and during this time,  25% of the water is replaced with 25% of fresh, de-chlorinated water and the required amount of salt is added along with this fresh water. As far as the filter is concerned, it is a power filter with sufficient power to keep the aquarium clean and this filter is rinsed (sponge part) during every water change mentioned above.
<I see>
And for the feeding part, the fish are all still as competitive as they were before and they all eat as much as they were eating before so I have no problems with feeding. I feed a varied diet of flake food, Spirulina based flake food, freeze dried Tubifex and  blood worms along with green peas and lettuce occasionally. I am pretty sure it is not a problem with the diet because I have fed one of my goldfish (a big red Oranda-he's 3 years old) this diet since the time he was about 3-4 months old (when I bought him) and he's grown into a big fish now- I have also included details of the other fish I have in my previous mail to you.
<Okay>
After going through the articles on the web, I'm confused between Trichodina, Skin Flukes, Costia and Chilodonella because I have never
experienced these before and also because most websites show similar symptoms for all of these and my fish seem to have all the common symptoms mentioned here.
<Without microscopic examination it is not possible to discern these protozoans and trematodes... Symptomatically they are very similar>
I do not possess a microscope and it seems rather impossible for me now to make a correct diagnosis. Could you please tell me any
alternate way in which it would be possible to diagnose the correct parasite other than the mucus test under the microscope?
<As stated, not possible... Perhaps a larger fish store has one and will help you, or a college with a zoology department. The alternative, as mentioned, is to treat the system as if these were at fault>
I'm perplexed ! And time's running out ! How much longer can I keep giving repeated treatments of Potassium permanganate?
<I would not exceed three doses of KMnO3 in any given run of treatments>
(it's dangerous) and one more thing is that some sites prescribe a repeated treatment for skin flukes at intervals of 4 days each. Could you shed more light on this procedure and also tell me what could be the parasite and what could be the potential source of the infection?
<I would assume for now that this problem may be flukes... and treat with a vermifuge... Praziquantel is one of the current favorite materials and seems to be widely available. Please look about for this locally, and if not available search on WWM for other vermifuges. The protozoans I'd risk treating for with Metronidazole/Flagyl, if the vermifuge doesn't cure the issue here. Bob Fenner>
Expecting your reply soon,
Thanking you,
Karthik Kashyap

Re: Goldfish disease enquiry    3/24/06
Hi,
<Hello>
The chemical that you mentioned- Praziquantel is not available in my fish
store (the store guy apparently knows nothing about it). I also tried a few
pharmaceutical stores in vain to get this chemical. I would like to ask you
if you could please specify the complete chemical names of the substances in your next reply to me, so that I may try in bigger stores.
<These are gone over on WWM... or links to them may be found thus, or through the Net>
As far as the status of my fish is concerned, I would like to tell you that
some of my fish had started developing pop-eye after sitting on the bottom,
and two of them had actually proceeded to get the dreaded dropsy.
Fortunately I have devised a treatment a few years ago that has  worked
almost every time for me- I put the dropsy patients under antibiotic
treatment for 10 days with Oxy-tetracycline hydrochloride(200 mg to 5 litres
of water) and Epsom salt and change 100% of the water every 2 days.
<... am still at a loss here... don't understand the root problem/cause of these symptoms... Something is very wrong, and having to make such massive changes is not good>
Even now, there is steady progress and the dropsy-affected fish are recovering
pretty fast. I have even put the pop-eye patients under this antibiotic
treatment because I know that 4-5 days after pop-eye (in both eyes), there
will be a dropsy infection. The dropsy I believe could be caused by an
internal bacterial infection because now for the past few days the poop of
some of the fish has started becoming white and thready (another indication of internal infection).
<But... from what?>
What I would like to ask you is whether this sudden dropsy outbreak could have any connection with the fluke outbreak in the tank?
<Possibly... but more likely consequent from "medicine exposure">
If so, how do I prevent these kind of internal infections from occurring in the future?
<... Quarantine mostly, careful purchasing... prophylactic treatments if necessary>
One more thing, the gills of the fish are all clear and shiny, and I can assure you the infestation is not that of Gill flukes, because gill flukes
are much more lethal and kill the fish in lesser than 20 days even with effective treatment I have experienced this before).
<This is often the case, yes>
Some of the websites state that skin flukes lodge themselves in the gills of the fish, so is there any way of identifying skin flukes in the gills or can I rule out skin flukes because my fish have clear, shiny gill covers without any heavy mucous build-up?
<One cannot rule out skin flukes w/o... microscopic examination>
Expecting your reply soon,
Thanking you,
Karthik
<Bob Fenner>

Goldfish dis.   3/23/06
After reading for hours, I'm totally confused as to diagnosing  this fish. I'm having difficulty deciding which disease she might  have.  
TANK:  29 gallon tank
FISH:  2 in tank  ( size 4 inch - Ryukin  Fish)  
FILTER:  Over the Wall
LIGHT:  Grow Lite
WATER : cleaned every seven days - 50 per cent each time changed
WATER MAINTAINED: with water chemical tester regularly .  No  Nitrates, No Ammonia,
<Nitrites?>
FEEDING: Goldfish floating pellets daily and cooked zucchini  squash twice weekly.
( I have tried them on English peas and Romaine lettuce and they  refuse to eat it.)
<Withhold the pellets on days when you feed them greens.>
SYMPTOMS:  Fish turns upside down
BELLY:  Larger than usual, appears to be swollen (size of a  Medium Chicken Egg)
EYES:  Looks like the eyes are protruding more  than usual.
SCALES:  Not lifted
RECTUM:  her white pearl scales are NOT lifted around the  rectum. Between the scales, you can see a reddish tint on one size, forming  
internally (like blood)   From her rectum, a tiny brown pellet-like object (looked like a  rat dropping) came  out of her tonight.
I have not seen a regular stool movement from her today.
<What of behavior?  Does the Goldfish seem to be breathing very rapidly?  Does it try to right itself from its upside down position?  A Goldfish with swimbladder problems usually makes attempts to come down and swim about, forage in the gravel, beg for food.>
(not sure if this information will help at all)
OTHER FISH IN TANK:  Other than scratching himself on the rocks on the  
bottom of the tank his belly is normal size and he doesn't seem to have any problems.
<This sounds like a parasite like Ich or Velvet.  For these, I tend towards the use of aquarium salt and heat as a treatment.  A bit of Googling will find you a few examples of how this treatment works and there are always several in our forum.>
The fish that is sick does NOT scratch herself on the rocks at  all.  
<Perhaps it did at first?>
I did a 50 per cent water exchange tonight AND added  some Aquarium Salt to the tank in hopes of helping her.   She swimming a little better but still continues to turn upside down.
She is still eating.
QUESTION: Also, should I separate the two fish, if I have  to medicate the one who has the problems?
<Yes.  Do you have a suitable QT?>
Can you please help me decide how to treat her?  
I will appreciate any suggestions, as I am in fear of putting the wrong medication into the tank.         
<A good fear to have; too many people medicate first and do research later.  Aa you may guess, I believe that your fish may be showing signs of dropsy.  The reason why I believe this is because you can see reddish marks under the scales; hemorrhagic septicemia commonly accompanies Dropsy.  Dropsy is caused by bacterial or protozoan infections that typically linked to water quality.  Keeping your fish in very clean water is the key to any bacterial disease.  Daily water changes are in order for the sick fish.  Adding 1 TBSP/5 GAL Epsom salt may help the fish rid itself of some of the fluid it has built up.  You should be aware that fish showing dropsy have a very low survival rate, and if this is the case, you may not be able to do much more than make your pet comfortable.
There is a slight chance that your fish may be suffering from swimbladder disorder.  This is almost always caused by mal-nutrition, and is on rare occasion an irreversible genetic trait.  Read here: http://www.wetwebmedia.com/FWSubWebIndex/gldfshmalnut.htm .  Epsom salt will also help a fish in this condition pass the blockage that is causing SBD.
Jason N.>

Brown/black patches on goldfish  3/22/06
Hi there from New Zealand,
I fell over your website trawling the web looking for possible answers for
what is going on with my fish. Seems a lot of good advice given so hopefully you can help me too.
I have 2 large red comets and 2 medium sized lionheads in a 127L tank - one
lionhead developed a dark stripe along his tail, which looked split  -
thinking this was fin rot I treated using Melafix but with no improvement.
<I am skeptical as to the benefit of this stuff.  I do know accomplished aquarists who stand by it, but in my opinion, it doesn't do much.>
Since then (6 weeks ago) the 2 comets have developed patches of brown/black
pigmentation on scales near gills, on their noses, sides, along fins...everywhere is patchy.
<My first guess would be Ammonia burn.>
  Also a small amount of red veining on one comet's tail, which I read in your page could be septicemia?
<Possibly. Septicemia, which is a bacterial infection of the blood, is typically linked to poor water quality.>
All seemed too patchy and sudden to be simple pigmentation change - also under
recommendation from the vet I treated with Furan-2 for black spot, which did
clear one brown patch on a comet. I have retreated using the Furan-2 but with no further improvement.
<Please stop medicating these fish.  Adding meds is dangerous and only should be done carefully when you are sure what ails your fish.>
The fish seem happy enough, eating fine, with regular water changes from a
local spring bore (the bore supplies our local brewery! The tap water here sits at pH 6.2,
<Remarkably low, but not too low for Goldfish to adjust to, in my opinion.  If your water is very soft your pH may be crashing days or weeks after you add it to the tank.>
which appeared too acidic for my last batch of fish that suddenly died last year, after the council upgraded our water supply... :))
Could there be something in the water?
<Possibly...  What does a water test say about the Ammonia, Nitrite and Nitrate levels in your tank?  How do they compare to that of your tap water?  How often do you do water changes, and how large are they?>
I am out of ideas, as is my vet, and would love to keep these fish alive and happy.
Any help much appreciated.
Thanks, Nerida
<No problem!  Check your water, write back.
Jason N.>

My goldfish  3/22/06
Dear WWM,
I won a goldfish at a fair and took it home to put in my empty fish tank. We waited a week to make sure it was healthy before we bought another goldfish to keep the first one company. A couple of days later my mom realized that the goldfish we had just bought died. She found him wedged between a plant and the bottom of the tank so we assumed he had gotten stuck and died. After we had removed the body we noticed that the remaining fish from the fair had developed black spots on his back around his top fin and a large black dot on his head. I don't know if he's sick or this is something that naturally happens. Please reply soon.  
<Your fish is suffering from environmental disease.  It's tank is still cycling.  Please read here about cycling an aquarium and about proper Goldfish care.
http://www.wetwebmedia.com/FWSubWebIndex/fwestcycling.htm
http://www.wetwebmedia.com/FWSubWebIndex/gldfshsystems.htm
Jason N.>

Large fancy goldfish question ... beh., dis., sys.   3/21/06
Hi,
I have two red cap Orandas in a 29 gallon tank. One is almost 5 inches long
including it's tail and the other is a little over four inches, including
it's tail. In the past week, I've noticed the smaller fish has been swimming
kind of strange. She seems to have a bit of hard time swimming forward and
when she tries to make a turn, she goes over on her side completely.
<Might just be the influence of the small tank size>
At first I thought it might be something wrong with her swimbladder but then
after looking into it more, it sounded more like constipation/bloating. So I
stopped feeding for a few days and there was a little bit of improvement
then started feeding a little bit of goldfish pellets because they're lower in protein.
<Need other foods...>
Normally, they are fed ocean nutrition, formula two, I seen it recommended somewhere on your site, they also eat pellets and have plankton and brine shrimp for a treat once in awhile.
<More greens...>
Anyways, the main reason I'm writing is because since yesterday I've noticed that this fish sometimes
goes and lays down on the gravel. Which I've never seen them do.
<Yes>
Sometimes they would rest right over the gravel but never on it. Every time I try to go
closer to the tank to look at it, she notices me coming and starts swimming
around. So, since yesterday, I started feeding them baby food (peas).
<Ah, good>
I was always scared feeding them actual peas because I was worried they would choke on them. :)
<Won't, if blanched, the skins pinched from them>
But I know they wont choke on the baby food. But I was just wondering if you could tell me anything about it laying on the gravel?
<...Mmm, age, boredom... need larger quarters>
Is this normal for a fish who is constipated/bloated?
<Not atypical>
I didn't want to start trying to treat it without knowing if it even needed any medications but
then again I figured I better write to you in case it might be more serious.
I really wouldn't want to lose my fish. Oh, and I forgot to mention, I tested
the water and the ammonia is 0, nitrites are 0 and nitrates are about 10.
Did I forget anything else? Oh, when I feed them the baby food, they both
seem to really like and both of them are eating very well. So if there's
anything you can tell me about whether this might be something more serious,
as in parasites or something, or what else I could do if it's constipation/bloating...I thank you in advance.
Lindsay
<I'd "step up" your water change schedule... maybe 10-20 percent twice a week... but really, they need more space. Bob Fenner>

I'm sorry to bother you with goldfish questions again, but this is an emergency.   3/21/06
Last night I purchased a beautiful large blue Oranda about 4.5 inches from PetSmart. He looked very stressed and listless in the store, breathing very rapidly and sitting on the bottom, but showed no physical signs of illness, until I got home. I noticed that his mouth appeared very swollen and slightly pink.
<Likely just from the move...>
It wasn't raw or anything, just very swollen. He also has about three thick white spots on his tail and three on his scales. It doesn't look like ick. He seems to be in very bad shape.
<Also likely simply from the recent handling>
He is just sitting on the bottom of the tank breathing rapidly opening and closing his mouth. He won't eat anything, which terrifies me for a goldfish. I put him in a quarantine tank and he was never exposed to any of my other fish. This morning his mouth was less pink but he was spitting out what looked like a white clump of tissue from his mouth when he was breathing. It looked like it was coming from inside his mouth and when he breathed out it would spit out and when he breathed in, it would suck back up. So far I put a small amount of Melafix, some Quick Cure
<Be very careful with this. Toxic to the fish and you>
and some Maracyn Two. I went to the store to purchase Maracyn Plus, but they didn't have it. Maracyn Plus sounded like what I needed, but I had Maracyn Two on hand. Should I get Maracyn Plus?
<Hypochondria...>
I bought some Fungus Clear Tabs, and I plan to use them tonight when I get home. What do you think he has with the white spots, swollen mouth and tissue coming out of his mouth? This is very sad to see. I bought him because he looked like he desperately needed help and I thought I could help him. Now I'm not sure if he will make it because he won't eat and that is a very bad sign. Please help!
Thanks.
Adrienne N. Duque
<First... be careful re buying large goldfishes... from general retailers... they know little re their selection and handling. Second, don't buy damaged goods... as much as it pains me to see animals, plants mis-treated, the "lesson" to the businesses involved is contradictory. Lastly, you did well to quarantine this animal... in your good care, with time, it will improve of no. Bob Fenner>

Good News for a Goldfish - 3/21/2006
I sent an email yesterday about my new Blue Oranda rescued from PetSmart two days ago. Well he is doing so much better!
<<Great!>>
He started to swim around and got excited to see me. He was also very hungry. He would not eat a thing the day before and would not move at all. I fed him some shelled peas, freeze dried krill and only 3-4 pellets. He perked up a lot! I seriously thought this fish would be dead when I got home. I guess the Maracyn Two kicked in just in time. He's not breathing as heavily either, still a little faster than normal for a Goldie though. He's not spitting any tissue and his mouth is only slightly swollen and a little pink. Can I take him off of the Maracyn Two or do I have to finish it?
<<Finish it!>>
I think it says to treat for five days and this will be the third day. My quarantine tank is very small for this size Oranda. I am changing the water though. I would like to get him into one of my big tanks ASAP. If you guys have any tips for him, that would be great.
<<Thank you for sharing this.  I hope he lives a long, healthy life with you.  Do finish the medication, and search WWM for goldfish systems, for more information.  Lisa.>>

My bubble eyed goldfish has red streaks in one bubble, can you help?   3/21/06
Thanks
<<Theresa, there is not enough info to respond properly to your question.  Please read on WWM regarding goldfish systems/diseases.  Also, I re-typed your email, as it was very short, but please try to type in complete sentences in the future.  Thanks.  Lisa.>>

Black Moor damage    3/19/06
I noticed today that my Black Moor’s left eye was completely red, almost like it was bleeding.  I’ve never seen anything like this before and I’m concerned.  I was wondering if you had any suggestions of things I could do to fix this. I would really appreciate it.                                                                           Thank you,                                                                                  Ashley
<One side only? Likely damaged from "swimming into something) (hopefully you don't have sharp objects in the tank). Can/should be treated with Epsom salt. See WWM re. Bob Fenner>

White Spots on Shubunkin's Operculum   3/18/06
Hi there, I have two young Shubunkin goldfish, who have both begun to develop small, slightly raised, white spots on their operculums.  I have counted about 7-8 of these spots on each operculum.  I have had the fish for about 3 months and keep them in a bowl with no cycling system,
<This is the root here>
fresh plants, and a pebble base.  There have not been any other problems and the two have always seemed very healthy and are vigorous swimmers.  They eat very well, twice a day.  The water is changed once a week:  I let the fresh water sit for a day in a clean bucket,
<Needs to sit for a week or more>
scrub out the tank with fresh water (no soap) and rinse the plants before putting the new water and fish back in.  Could the spots be linked to a parasite infection?
<Not likely... just environmental>
If so, how would I go about treating this problem?  Thank you very much for your time and help.  Lauren W.
<Fix their environment and these "mucus reaction areas" will disappear. Please read here: http://wetwebmedia.com/FWSubWebIndex/gldfshsystems.htm
and the linked files above. Bob Fenner>

Goldfish turns yellow! No news at eleven   3/18/06
Dear WWM Crew,
<Teti>
Many Greetings from Nottingham in the UK.
<And salutations from Kailua-Kona, HI... north of the place of death of James Cook...>
We are in a Laser Lab in the University of Nottingham and because our life as scientists is boring (just
joking) we have an aquarium in our central office which is shared by many people.
<Sounds good>
The previous aquarium we had (fairly small ~10 gallons, I think) hosted only by 1 Shubunkin goldfish. About a year and a half ago
when I joined the group, I thought the fish looked very lonely in the fish tank so (after asking permission) I bought a Comet goldfish. The new -much smaller then- fish proved to be very hostile towards the old big (twice the size) goldfish to the point
that we had to separate them because the old fish was heavily injured and bleeding from the small fish's bites.
<Likely from crowding...>
About a month ago we bought a new aquarium for them (96 litres or 25 gallons) and they now look much happier. The small fish (which has caught up in size with the big fish) has stopped attacking the big fish. However, during this last week, the Comet goldfish has
started becoming progressively yellow!!
<Yep. Happens>
Their food run out recently and I bought a new batch of the same goldfish food (King British-Goldfish flake food, if
you've heard of it!). What is wrong with the fish?
<Nothing>
I hope that you could help.
Many Thanks,
Teti
<No worries here... may change back to more golden... even mottled... Do read here re improving nutrition: http://wetwebmedia.com/FWSubWebIndex/gldfshfdgfaqs.htm
Cheers, Bob Fenner>

Re: small white raised lumps on goldfish tail  - 03/17/06
Dear Bob
You're Wonderful - I've been watching them all day and fed them some peas and I think, everything is working itself out alright!
Thank You so very much
Deirdre
<Welcome my friend. Bob Fenner>

Goldfish With Pinkish Fins     3/17/06
Hi, My daughter has a small five gallon tank with three large goldfish and a snail.
They have been doing great for about a year, very active, always
reacting to feeding time, and in generally good health.
Yesterday they started acting very very lethargic. They all were just
hanging out in the lower part of the tank and barely moving. They also
seem to have a reddish tint on their fins that was never there before. Also the snail is
acting VERY strange. It also has a pinkish discoloration on its flesh
and is acting very active, like its trying to get out of its shell.
I tried changing the water in the tank, but that had no effect.
What should I do? Robert
< Sounds like the start of a bacterial infection. Do a 50% water change, vacuum the gravel and clean the filter. If they don't get any better in a couple of days then try treating with an antibiotic like Furanace or Kanamycin. After treatment you need to add some carbon to the filter to remove any medication. The treatment may affect the biological filtration so you might need to add Bio-Spira to prevent ammonia spikes.-Chuck>

Bubble eye Goldfish Help needed!    3/17/06
Hi my name is Stacy!
<Mine's Bob>
My boss has a bubble-eye goldfish and for the last week one of its eye sacs has been milky-white. If there anything we can do to help it or is this an common issue?
Thank you
Stacy
<Often these enlarged areas are torn... by something sharp in their environment... and do get "contaminated" with water, microbes... and can be difficult to cure. Do remove any sharp processes in the tank... and read over WWM re Goldfish Disease, Systems... there are some S.O.P. posted there that you can utilize to speed up the healing. Bob Fenner>

What's wrong with my Orandas? Please Help!!    3/17/06
I got a new 20 gallon tank about a month ago. Everything was going perfectly
fine and then my goldies suddenly came down with these white bumps.
<Is this tank cycled?>
It seemed like this started after I brought home a baby Oranda from PetSmart. I
noticed that he had 2 white bumps on his head (which was all bright orange
except for the bumps) but I just thought it was new growth to his "wen", so I bought him anyway. Now, several
<... this tank is too small for several goldfish>
of my Orandas have suddenly developed these white, pimple-like sores on their heads. The sores appear and stay for
a few days and then go away, but then another one or two will appear a few
days later. It started with one Oranda, but soon enough, it spread to most
of the tank. The sores are only on the head and the white spots look like
little white pin heads, then they go away or sometimes turn red and then new
ones will appear. They seem to start as a thick white spot and it will get
bigger and bigger and then disappear or fall off and a couple of new ones
will appear. One of my Lemon head Orandas got one in the middle of his head
and it left a small hollow opening where it was and it looks like it is gray
where the spot had been. So many parasites and diseases have the same
symptoms, so I'm not sure which one they have and which meds to get. I have
tried to research it on the internet, but I can't find the exact same thing
that is going on. I am so confused! Is there a parasite found in goldfish
that shows up as white spots only on the head growth?
<Mmm, here and on the body... but I suspect this is "simply" an environmental response...>
Could this be "hole in the Wen"? This has been going on now for about two weeks. They are acting
spunky and excitable as usual and are not showing signs of stress; however,
I know that these symptoms can prove deadly. I talked to a local fish store
about this yesterday and they said it could be lymphocystis and not to worry too much.
<Mmm, not Lymph>
But looking at that disease on the internet, it doesn't seem like that disease because this is strictly on the head growth only. Could these
bumps spread to their organs and kill them? Also, not all of them are catching this, only a couple.
I take good care of the water and follow all of the golden rules for goldfish keeping. I am not just an average idiot who has goldfish. These are very healthy and very spunky fish. Not to mention very expensive. Some of
them are from Hong Kong and China. They love to be pet and they like to
splash and kiss fingers and play. I am always very careful when petting them
and make sure that my hands are safe and don't have any perfumes or lotions
or anything else on my hands. I have always done this, and have never seen the white bumps, so I don't think petting is the cause.
<... you could increase filtration, aeration, circulation, but the root problem and cure here is space... You/they need more of it>
I currently feed them Hikari Lionhead and Oranda foods. I also supplement
their diet with peas, Spirulina flakes, krill, bloodworms, and oranges. What
is the best food for Orandas? Also, I like to give them treats every now and
then, any suggestions on different kinds of treats?
<Perhaps some frozen/shelled peas>
These are very, very spoiled Orandas.
<Sounds like it!>
I have already tried Copper Safe (Mardel) and Parasite Clear Tank Buddies
(Jungle). I bought some of the Jungle brand Anti-Parasite Medicated Food. It had Metronidazole, Praziquantel, and Levamisole.
<Best to avoid these... toxic>
I don't know what that means, but it had the Metronidazole and since I suspected hole in the head,
I bought it. Well, the only problem is, they wouldn't eat it! As a matter of
fact, I thought they were going to puke after they tried it! They looked miserable after eating just a couple of bites.
Right now I am going back and forth to PetSmart in an effort to save my
precious pets from these diseases. There are no experienced goldfish experts
to turn to. Almost every fish store in Houston specializes in Tropical and
Saltwater/Marine fish. And I am tired of following their bad advice and
buying the wrong products. These fish are my beloved pets and I would die if anything happens to them. Please help!!
Adrienne N. Duque
<Do take a read on WWM re Goldfish Systems... the Related FAQs there... and a read over Goldfishinfo.com.
Bob Fenner>

Re: What's wrong with my Orandas? Please Help!!    3/17/06
Thanks so much for the timely response. I was very worried. When I got home
yesterday, only one Oranda had a faint white spot on his head, so I think
this problem is hopefully going away. You guys are probably right. I do plan
to upgrade to a larger tank in the near future. Right now there are only
babies in it and they are pretty small.
<Mmm, yes. Do fix their environment and all will likely be well>
Thanks for the great advice and
Happy St. Patty's Day!
<Thank you. Bob Fenner>

Disease  on goldfish.. help    3/17/06
I do have aquariums for the last 5 years.  This time, I bought a brand new
Aquarium,  and put goldfishes on it... Now I do have a problem with my goldfish, or maybe with all my aquarium...
First, I noticed than one of my Goldfish, has like a hair hanging from de
lower part of his tail, exactly by the anus...I thought it was like a way to
defecate.  It was exactly like thinner than a hair, but with very little
pearls, really tinny....like a kind of pearl collar, but really tinny and
thin... I noticed the same pattern in 3 other fish the following 4 days... I
also noticed like the fish has like "tense" tail...it does not look, like
other fish whit its vail, it is like the tail became, like if the fish has received a shock or something like that....
<Mmmm, does sound like a possible "Anchorworm, Lernaea" infestation>
Today I took off the fourth fish, with the same pattern.  I checked the PH
of the water,  and it is o.k. also add some kind of stress relief, in
order to keep water environment ok... But I don't know what could it be and how could it be treated...
I also has one with like an eaten tail.. but I found what could it be, and
right now is under medication... But with the "pearl collar" I don't know what to do, or what could it be....
<Please look up the above in-quotation terms... on the Net... does this look like what you see? Bob Fenner>

Goldfish Disease. too little info - 3/16/2006
Hi. I have an orange ranchu, and I noticed a raised white bump on the right side right behind the gill. I was wondering if this is a cause for concern.
<<Too little to really go on here, but do search WWM for freshwater parasites, and compare to what you see on your fish.>>
Please let me know. Thanks.
<<Hope you find what you are looking for! Lisa.>>