Odd colored Anthias  2/2/08
Hello Crew,
<Ben>
I was in my LFS today checking out the new stock, and I came across a batch of Lyretail Anthias. I am in the process of setting up a 36x30x26 cube (or close to cube) tank with a volume of around 115, with a sump/refugium. Anyways, I have been considering Anthias for this system.
<Mmm, most species of Anthiines really need more swimming room...>
There were a number of the regular orange-ish pink hued females, but mixed in were about four specimens that were very light in color... almost silver. When the light hit them at a certain angle they did seem to have a purple-ish hue to them. They had vibrant orange lines behind their eyes (instead of the purple-ish ones usually found on female lyretails) and yellow outlines on their tailfins. They were slightly bigger than some of the other lyretails, but resembled them in body shape and everything. At first I thought they were specimens that were doing very poorly and were showing extreme signs of stress, but they were swimming normally, alert, bright eyed, etc. When the tank was fed they seemed to eat a bit (the specimens just arrived yesterday so I wasn't expecting any of them to eat at all).
I guess I'm just wondering if you think these are
A) extremely stressed specimens
B) simply an odd color morph of the lyretails
C) not lyretails at all...
<Most likely C>
I wish I could have gotten a picture as I'm sure that would have helped tremendously... just wanted to get your thoughts and see if any of you in your vast experience had come across anything like this.
Thanks,
Ben
<I do wish I could show you about one of the international trade shows (business) in our interest... There are invariably new species of fancy basses, some of the popular Labrid genera (esp. Cirrhilabrus) that I've never seen... that are GORGEOUS... and unidentified as yet. What a planet! Bob Fenner>

How do I tell P. bartlettorum from P. evansi   3/4/07
Hi Crew,
<Jim>
Just one quick question: is there a clear way to tell P. bartlettorum from P. evansi?
<Mmm, yes... but they are close in appearance for sure>
  There are some beautiful purple Anthias with crescents of yellow along their backs at my LFS at a reasonable price, but after looking at all the pics on WWM and FishBase, I still can't see how to tell which they are.  There is a huge variety in the appearance of the pics on FishBase.
<Oh yes>
They look a lot like the evansi pics on WWM, but then they also look a great deal like the top center pic of bartlettorum on FishBase.  If they are bartlettorum, I would buy all three.  If they are evansi, I would prefer to leave them for someone better able to care for them (hopefully).  I have had 3 P. bicolor in my 150 LPS reef for about a year now, so I do have some experience with Anthias.
<These are one of my faves...>
The largest has just developed the elongated dorsal spines that tell me it is becoming a male.  (Actually, as I look at the second row of pics for bartlettorum on FishBase, they look exactly like my bicolors!  Yikes!)  Any suggestions on a good way to ID them?  And out of curiosity, do you think 3 P. bartlettorum could coexist peacefully with 3 P. bicolors, or shall I just plan to put them in my soft coral tank?
Jim
<I would keep these two Anthiines separated... Really not so much for compatibility reasons, as I think you'll enjoy both more if they're housed in two separate systems. I use the "more swooped" nose of Bartlett's and more extensive yellow toward the rear of the Evan's to distinguish these two... Much easier to tell when next to each other. Bob Fenner>

Anthias article pictures   10/2/06
Hello,
<Hi Peter>
I was just going over your article on Anthias. I think a couple of the pics are incorrectly labeled.
<Possibly>
The second picture of Pseudanthias bartlettorum doesn't look correct. Red dorsal fin, no purple at all, and the tail all look like something other than P. bartlettorum. Maybe a pale dispar? <<Mmm, nah... tis a female: http://fishbase.sinica.edu.tw/Photos/ThumbnailsSummary.php?ID=12719>>
<Maybe...>
The first picture under P. evansi I believe is a bartlettorum.
<<Again... don't think so: http://fishbase.sinica.edu.tw/Photos/ThumbnailsSummary.php?ID=7799>>
And the third pic under evansi looks to be either a juvenile P. tuka or P. pascalus. I just saw juvenile P. evansi at a LFS and the basically look like adults, except a solid line of demarcation between the purple and yellow, not the dots.
<<... Is also correctly identified as labeled IME. RMF>>
Hope this was helpful.
Regards,
Peter
<Will take another look... though there is a huge variation in color/markings for many Anthiine species. See fishbase.org for some examples. Bob Fenner>

Re: Anthias article pictures    10/3/06
Yes, very true...in fact I scoured fishbase.org while writing the original email to be sure :-)
P-
<I see... as did I... and took another look through Kuiter and Debelius... these IDs are correct as far as I can tell. Posted here: http://www.wetwebmedia.com/anthifaq2.htm
Thank you, BobF>

Poor English, Pseudanthias sexual ID  - 03/12/2006
hello to the crew, hope you are well,
could you tell me please if the female redbelted Anthias (Pseudanthias rubrizonatus) has a red belt like the male?
thank you,
Ben
<... Mmm, does not: http://filaman.ifm-geomar.de/Photos/ThumbnailsSummary.php?ID=7321
Bob Fenner>

Purple Queen Anthias   1/14/06
Bob,
<James>
Don't mean to be a pain in the ass today but looking through my reference sites it seems that Pseudanthias pascalus and tuka are both one and the
same.  Any input or am I going nuts a little too soon.  Just re a query I answered today.
Regards,
James
<Mmm, the common name "Tuka" is applied to a few Anthiine species, including
pascalus... BobF>

Anthias identification
Hello
<Aloha>
I was snorkeling at Aliomanu Bay on the NE side of Kauai the other day. I'm pretty good at id and saw what looked like an Anthias in shallow water --- rocky point on south edge of bay with strong current. The fish was about 50 to 60 mm and color pattern similar to bicolor Anthias with yellow dorsally and pink ventrally. But, it had a very electric blue (like blue on omilu) stripe from eye up to dorsal fin.
<Okay>
Any help on identification? Saw about five each of several days. with manini juveniles and variety of sergeant juv.s.
Thanks,
Ron Hirschi
<Is either Pseudanthias hawaiiensis or P. bicolor... though there are some other Anthiines in HI, they are much deeper water. Please see here: http://www.wetwebmedia.com/anthiina.htm
and fishbase.org, Google images... for species identification. Bob Fenner>

Re: Anthias identification
Many thanks for your help. It looked most like a female P hawaiiensis....based on the photos you took.
<A gorgeous species... and a good deal of fun to go visit, re-locate... usually under a ledge...>
Next visit, I will try to get a photo since the blue stripe behind eye on the fish I saw was very pronounced -- and I don't see that stripe on any of the Anthiines I see in the photos.
Thanks again!   Ron
<Mahalo my friend. Bob Fenner>

Evan's Anthias
Hi Bob and crew,
Pardon my frustrated e-mail but as you read on, I think you may understand. Two days ago, I bought an Evan's Anthias
<A very difficult species>
I believe, they look almost the same as Bartlett's so I get confused at times.
<The Bartlett's would be a much better choice.>
This is my second crack at an Anthias as my first Evan's perished suddenly after doing well for about a week or so. It began coming out less and eventually just sat at the bottom behind a rock and never fed and soon died afterwards. At that time, I blamed it upon my amateur status, my getting rid of a fairy wrasse which might have stressed the Anthias by either losing a dither fish or just re-arranging the
aquarium to get the wrasse. However, that is a while ago. This time around, the reef has been established for quite some time now.
<How long? Less than one year and it is not old enough.>
0 ammonia, 0 nitrite, and little nitrate. I have a skimmer, ample filtration, and good water movement. I just can't understand it! This Anthias is exhibiting the same signs of the previous one.
<Fairly typical for the species.>
It came out for a little while yesterday to swim and ate some dried ocean plankton by Hikari and actually looked quite good aside from being a bit nervous which was expected. Today, it only came out in
the morning and ate very little. Soon after that, it went back behind a rock peering out and breathing heavily. It continued to hide and breathe heavily the whole day and now deep into the night. Its only tankmates in this 50 gallon reef are two pink skunk clownfish. Please help me out guys.....is this the end for this Anthias as well?
<Quite likely.>
What am I doing wrong?
<Likely a probable with room, available food, and appropriate species.>
Would a different food help?
<Yes, live food from a refugium is needed.>
I was going to do a water change.....its been about 2 weeks but I wanted to wait till the Anthias got acclimated....should I do it now?
<Will not really help or hurt, I suspect.>
Does it need another one of its kind in there with it
<No>
as the fish store had three of them in the same smallish tank....much smaller then mine and it still lived and looked okay
<Living for a little while in the pet store is very different from living long-term in your tank. It usually takes fish quite awhile to starve to death. Many make their way into hobbyists tanks before the perish.>
Why would it not be as active and swim around in my tank which is much bigger with good water?
<Running out of energy due to starvation.>
Does it need a wrasse or a dither fish beside the clowns who are always out in the water albeit staying pretty much in the same place as clowns do. What is going on here guys? I just so confused and frustrated but look forward to hearing from you.
<If you wish to make a sincere effort at Anthias, get yourself a copy of Scott Michael's work "Reef Fishes: Volume 1." He has a very nice, detailed section on selecting Anthias and their care.>
Sincerely, Jimmy
<Good luck to you and your fish. -Steven Pro>

Bicolor Anthias
Bobster...
I was looking over the posted FAQs and saw one that raised a question for me: Regarding dimorphism in bicolor Anthias... are the extended 2/3 dorsal rays of the male soft or hard?
<The first dorsal is composed of hard/spines>
Tipped with yellow conspicuously too?
<Yes... quite bright in healthy, wild, or just caught individuals.>
I have very little experience with this fish... brought in a few tens of them over them years as special orders for aquarists that thought they were a "hardier" species.
<Mmm, a common misconception... actually a rather touchy species, quite shy and retiring... that needs lots of space... not a big shoaling species as many other Anthiines>
I just never looked or noticed much difference and always wondered: now wondering if we were just getting a preponderance of females and unsexed by the time they ran the gauntlet to make it all the way over here to the East coast :)
<Possibly... or immature males. Did you buy them out of Hawai'i? This is about the best location for this species>
I didn't see pictures of both sexes BTW on FishBase.org... indeed an awesome resource, just lacking a photo here.
<As I recall (having just glanced there yesterday) the pix by mainly Dr. Randall are of dead specimens...>
Ciao, bub
Antoine
<Be seeing you, Bob F>

Re: bicolor Anthias DANKE
> I have very
> little experience with this fish... brought in a few tens of them over them years as special orders for aquarists that thought they were a "hardier" species.
> <Mmm, a common misconception... actually a rather touchy species, quite shy and retiring... that needs lots of space... not a big shoaling species as many other Anthiines>
Yowsa...two strikes, not looking for three
<Steal home!>
<...Did you buy them out of Hawai'i? This is
> about the best location for this species>
Yessuh...a collector named Colin Young on Oahu. He's the chap who's name I could not recollect in SD when we were talking about the dubious collection of indigenous Zoanthids.
<Ah, yes>
> <As I recall (having just glanced there yesterday)
> the pix by mainly Dr. Randall are of dead specimens...>
Yah... they had a positively pickled look about them.
Thanks bub
<Wish he had done his usual (he wrote the paper re) trick of pinning up/out the unpaired fins... Bob F>

Fish Identity (Fancy Bass)
My LFS has a couple fish in that they have labeled "Pink Anthias". They don't really know what it is, and I cant find any pictures that resemble this fish. Could you help me identify it?
<Sure: try fishbase.org for the family (Serranidae) and the genera of the subfamily Anthiinae, and these latter are posted with our coverage here: http://www.wetwebmedia.com/anthiina.htm and the references there.>
Body shape similar to the purple queen Anthias.
The back is a light pink, and it lightens up as it goes towards the belly where it is very light.
The eyes are purple.
The dorsal fin is purple,
The pectoral fins are clear and very long.
<Ahh, good clues>
And at the very fringe of the tail, there is a reddish stripe going from top to bottom. The stripe is not clear, but the rest of the tail is very translucent.
Any ideas?
Thanks,
Bob
<Mmm I have a friend named Bob Smith... works with Leng Sy at Ecosystems... the Miracle Mud folks. Bob Fenner>

Re: Fish Identity (Anthiines)
Well, I looked at all fish that were Anthias or Pseudanthias.
I found a couple that could be it, but when I look at other images of the same name at the site, some look VERY different. 
<Yes... clicking on the main image (on fishbase.org) leads one to believe (at times) that "anything goes" in color, marking variations per species here>
It looks something like:
http://www.fishbase.org/Photos/PicturesSummaryV2.cfm?ID=8124&pic=Pshyp_u1.jpg
http://www.fishbase.org/Photos/PicturesSummaryV2.cfm?ID=46437&pic=Pstow_u0.jpg
I'm thinking that its a Pseudanthias hypselosoma. Could what they have be
a color variant of this species?
<Possibly... though I have never seen these with purple coloring in the wild. It may seem strange, but your "Pink Anthias" may be a species as yet undescribed, or so unknown, unpopular thus far as to be not pictured in reference works. Bob Fenner>
Thanks for all the help,
Bob

Re: Fish Identity (Anthiines)
I figured out what the fish is. :)
Turns out, the females of the species do not look like the males. Its Pseudanthias hypselosoma. Stocky/Silverstreak Anthias. If you look at this pic:
http://www.reefimages.com/cgi-reefimages/page.cgi?list=Anthias&filename=A2406.jpg
The fish that is nose to nose with the male. Looks just like that. So FishBase was correct, but didn't list things by gender.
<Ahh, thank you for this... saw a bunch of this species two weeks back in N. Sulawesi... a beauty. Do look at the "other" pix on FishBase (by clicking on the one identification image shown... and if the particulars are known (I'm one of those who rarely supply them... shame!), they will be given (like gender)... Bob Fenner>
Thanks,
Bob

Anthias engelhardi?
>Hi Marina,
>>Hi!  Is this "ReefVan" of the DIY fame?  Great to see you here.
>Saw you were hosting on WWM so I figured I'd ask a you an identification question on some new Anthias that a reefer buddy of mine just bought.
>Uh oh.. I haven't got an I.D. bible handy.  
>They were sold as Anthias engelhardi, yet trying to find a photo in reference books or on the 'net was very difficult. Now that I've seen some pics I have my doubts as to what these really are...
See attached ... Van
>>Boy, you weren't kidding when you said that it's difficult to I.D. online.  My results doing several searches would indicate to me that there is no such described species as Anthias engelhardi at this point.  I'm sorry I can't be of more help, but at this point I've exhausted every search engine I have.  How about posting the pic on http://www.wetwebfotos.com/talk (you'll have to register, but it's fairly painless) or on RDO (reefs.org), maybe Mary or someone has run across this critter before.  Marina

Re: Anthias engelhardi?
>Yep, it's me! I noticed that in your reply you spelled Engelhardi
incorrectly, was that the reason why you couldn't find it?
>>OOPS!  I'll give her another go, but I also did a general Anthias, Pseudanthias, and Serranocirrhitus search on the search engines mentioned, as well as searching Wet Web's photo gallery and database.  I'm wondering if this could be a recently described fish, because it's coloration and markings are different from the other Anthiines I've found.  I was hoping we'd net something on RDO, I'll be going to check after I'm finished here.  Marina
>quote: My results doing several searches would indicate to me that there is no such described species as Anthias "englehardi" ...at this point.  Van

Pairing up Highfin cardinals
Hello,
<HI>
yes I would like to have a mated pair.  How do you tell them apart or do they change sexes like clownfish do?
<You can't tell them apart and no they do not.>  
<<Actually... can be sexed at size. RMF>>
Anthias as well?
<really depends on what kind of Anthias (most of the time the males are different from females> Should I add 3 to my tank and see what happens?  Thanks for any help, Jeff
<the best way I have found is to take 5, (better odds of getting males and females) put them in a tank together and you will start to notice over time, that 2 will start to hang out together all the time. you will also notice them chasing the other ones all the time. remove the ones they are chasing and you have you self a pair. Good luck MikeH>

Sexing Bartlett's Anthias? 
Hi--one of the species that I'm interested in for my reef tank is the Bartlett's Anthias. 
<A beautiful fish!> 
I understand for Anthias it's important to have only one male, with multiple females. My question is, how do you sex these fish? Thanks, Beth 
<Well, Beth, one of the more reliable sex indicators that I am aware of seems to be an elongated, clear first or second ray of the dorsal spine in mature males. Color is also a possible indicator. Typically, you can buy a group of immature specimens and one will generally become a male. That would be my approach to getting a group together. Good luck! Regards, Scott F>