Large FW Catfish fed feeders...
I just found out you guys existed! Boy I could have used your help a long time ago. I didn't really have a question for ya, but wanted to tell you a story. I know you hear this a lot but I was also the victim of poor pet store knowledge (more than once) and ended up with a Pseudoplatystoma  corruscans (shovelnose catfish). <Cool cat, but very large with a larger mouth> The guy told me at the store that at about 6 inches the little guy was pretty much full grown. <LOL> I know now that that was completely false. Anyway we kept the little fella in our 33 gallon and he is was one of my favorites in the tank. Loved to eat and has really unique patterns. We were planning on keeping him till he got closer to a foot long. Unfortunately he never made it that far, he inherited what I think was a bacterial disease from some feeder comets, <Please, Please, PLEASE! No feeders unless you're willing to QT them. Garden worms and human seafood (shrimp, mussels, etc.) is far safer for these large cats.> even though we wouldn't have had him for very long I was really mad that he died so quickly (3 months). He quit moving around and had his feelers pulled back to his side. A usually quite knowledgeable fish keeper told us to just let it ride for a couple of days, thinking he might just be shedding, <Shedding??? Catfish don't shed there skin>> since he was the only one in the tank that was sick. He died the next morning. The other fish I was misinformed about is our fire eel. He lives in the same 33 gallon tank (don't worry I've treated the tank with Pimafix because whatever the catfish had it affected our leopard leaf fish, he got some body slime and cloudy eye but everyone is healthy now) and looking at your website I found out that he may get 2-4 feet long. The pet store told me he would be max a foot and a half. Right now he is just about a foot long and happily resides under a large piece of driftwood, coming out at night and to eat out of my hand, he loves frozen shrimp!<Great, safe food. But vary it somewhat.> I was wondering how long it will take for him to get too big for the tank and have to be given away. <Not really sure.> I'll miss him but it's not fair to cage him in such a small tank. <True> Will he really get 4 feet in captivity <possible, over 3 for sure.> or could we maybe get away with keeping him in a 100 gallon or more? <Would surely allow you to keep him far longer. Min. recommended size is around 80 gallons. Upgrade your plan to a 125 or 150 and you could have him for life.> Sorry to write you a novel. Pet stores should be forced to have accurately knowledgeable staff, the losers are the poor fish and pissed off purchasers.
Don't rush to write me back,
Amber <Don>

Lima Shovelnose not feeding and other questions - 7/20/07
Dear WWM crew -
<Hello!>
I recently bought a 6 - 7" Lima shovelnose (about 5 days ago) from a LFS and put it into a 125 gallon (long) tank with a 7 - 8" clown knife. While at first the clown knife would nip at it (only the first day), it has stopped and I have not observed it biting the shovelnose at all in the last few days.
<Ah yes, Clowns are famous for being intolerant of tankmates. Let's hope they've settled down now. Sometimes they do... sometimes they don't. So watch carefully. That poor Lima will be simply taken apart by an angry Clown Knife!>
In any case, as can be inferred from my subject line of this email, the shovelnose has not eaten anything yet.
<Not unusual with predatory catfish immediately after import and transport to a new aquarium. The lack of dither fish (e.g., large characins) will be making the catfish feel very exposed and consequently unsettled. They're also somewhat sociable, and on their own are definitely more nervous than otherwise.>
I have been offering it live earthworms dug from my yard (no pesticides, no herbicides, nothing artificial in my lawn).
<Sounds ideal. An "organic" garden is a wonderful source of live foods!>
Even when I drop the earthworm right on top of it, the catfish doesn't eat it.
<Give it time.>
Instead, it seems startled and darts away to the other side of the tank, or just ignores the earthworm as it falls by it, even when it brushes its whiskers.
<Sorubim lima is one of the more nervous of the Pimelodidae, and it isn't going to eat until it feels settled. Don't worry -- adult predatory cats can go many days, if not weeks, without food.>
I've tried feeding both with and without the lights on in my tank with the same result (when the lights are off, there is an external light on in the room). However, when I fed my clown knife a monster earthworm a couple days ago (literally around 5" long) and it was having a little difficulty getting it all down, the shovelnose did try to take the bit of earthworm dangling out the clown knife's mouth away from it. All subsequent attempts at feeding it have failed.
<Well, it sounds as if he is getting peckish. Try some alternative foods. Frozen bloodworms are always good value with catfish. Bits of prawn and white fish are also good. Mealworms are worth a shot. When I've kept predatory cats one food that always goes down well is a small bit of raw salmon or mackerel. The oils in these fishes sends them wild! The downside is they heavily pollute the tank, so schedule a water change right afterwards. Basically, try all sorts of different things.>
In regards to tank conditions, pH is 7.0, ammonia, nitrate and nitrites are all 0 though the water is a bit hard (well water from New England). I was wondering if there was anything that I could do to try and get this the shovelnose to eat.
<Add another shovelnose and some dither fish might be one good idea. But failing that, just be patient and persistent.>
The shovelnose also just sits there in the tank, hovering slightly above the gravel, though at times it will go up and down the side of the tank that it is on, which is a bad thing - I think.
<Completely normal. These fish are famous for resting at odd angles, even head downwards, with their bodies pressed against some solid surface. It's apparently what they do.>
Is this normal behavior for a lima shovelnose or am I just being a bit paranoid?
<A little from column A, a little from column B...>
Also, when I toss in the worms, if the clown knife or the catfish don't eat them, I usually remove them by hand. However, I am worried that this is stressful for the fish and so I was wondering if maybe you have a suggestion as to how to feed them the earthworms instead of just dropping them in or dangling them at the top of the water.
<Well, you should certainly try not to add too much food at once. But I agree, sticking your hand in a few minutes later may well upset a catfish in two minds about whether to feed or not. But if you add only small earthworms to begin with, then either the cat or the knife will eat them, so there's no real risk of pollution.>
I also have another question. I know that clown knives can get up to around 3' in an aquarium and I was wondering how compatible the shovelnose would be with the clown knife once they are fully grown.
<Clown Knives are notoriously unreliable as community fish. Some specimens are fine, others less so. The males (if I recall correctly( guard a nest in the wild, so possibly its the males that are more territorial. Really, all you can do is wait and see. Aquarium specimens of Chitala chitala typically reach about 60cm/2' in aquaria.>
I do plan to buy a 300 gallon long tank, for the clown knife at least, and if need be I always figure that I could just keep the shovelnose in the 125 gallon tank.
<Sounds like a plan. You can easily keep two or three Sorubim lima in the 125 gallon tank, plus a few midwater dither fish like spanner barbs to make everyone feel comfortable. Add some big plastic plants and a few bits of wood, and it'd be a really attractive aquarium as well.>
Also, in a 300 gallon tank, and before that the 125 gallon tank, would it be alright to introduce 1 silver / black arowana and 1 fire eel?
<Fire eel yes, though they are *far* from easy to keep. Arowana also possible, but although widely traded they are rather more demanding animals than people expect, and can be extremely territorial.>
I realize that an arowana by itself should have 300 gallons, but I figure that it's a primarily top swimming fish while the shovelnose and fire eel are bottom inhabitants and the clown knife is a mid to bottom level inhabitant.
<That's the theory, anyway. Certainly such combinations have been done. But there are no guarantees. Silver arowana are the least aggressive arowanas, so that's one thing in your favour. Fire eels generally keep out of everyone's way, but they do demand a cave to call home, so you'll need to find a way to create territories for the eel and the Knife.>
In any case, the shovelnose could be kept in the 125 gallon while the other fish are in the 300 if that would be too much fish.
<Indeed. I'd actually keep the Sorubim lima as a group in their own tank. They're relatively small animals and very gentle. Fire eels would work well with them. Arowanas, possibly. The Clown, I'm less confident about.>
Finally (I know, it's a lot of reading. Thanks for bearing with me), I was wondering if it would be alright if I took an uprooted tree trunk, probably pine or oak, from my backyard and put it into the tank (first the 125 and then transferring it to the 300).
<This is really, REALLY difficult to answer. In theory, you can put wood into aquaria without too much harm. Done it myself, primarily as a source of food for my Panaque catfish. But, wood that hasn't been "cured" rots, and the rotting messes up water quality and also reduces the pH significantly (both through normal decay and the release of tannic acids). So while I've certainly added small bits of wood lifted from streams and not had problems, I wouldn't expect a whole tree stump to be safe. This is one of those times where being cautious probably makes sense. A big bit of bogwood may be expensive, but at least its safe. For what it's worth, you can get some bargains on eBay and the like when it comes to bogwood. Artificial tree stumps are also worthwhile, and can look very realistic once a bit of algae has covered them up.>
Obviously I would soak it in water for a day or two first to get rid of all the insects living inside. The only problem that I could see is it slowly rotting in the tank, but I don't know for sure what this would do.
<Curing wood for use in aquaria takes more than a day or two! Even sticks an inch in diameter are leaching acids months after I've collected them. So a tree stump would probably need curing for a couple of years!>
Thanks in advance (and for reading this very long email),
- Raymond
<Hope this helps, and good luck. Neale>