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FAQs about the Koran Angel

Related Articles: Marine Angelfishes, Pomacanthus Angels, Koran Angel

Related FAQs:  Koran Angel Identification, Koran Angel Behavior, Koran Angel Compatibility, Koran Angel Selection, Koran Angel Systems, Koran Angel Feeding, Koran Angel Disease, Koran Angel Reproduction, Marine Angelfishes In General, Angelfish ID, Selection, Behavior, Compatibility, Health, Feeding, Disease,   

A Koran in Australia

Angelfishes for  Marine Aquariums
Diversity, Selection & Care
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by Robert (Bob) Fenner

Koran Angel, Bacterial?   8/4/06 Good Morning Everyone, <Dave> I have a Juvenile Koran Angel that I have had for about 6 weeks.  He was in apparent perfect health when I bought him.  I quarantined him for 30 days, and everything looked good so I introduced him to the main tank, a 110 gal FOWLR.  Within 24 hours, his left eye had developed a cloudy and torn appearance.  I decided that he must have scraped on something (but I could be wrong so I'm including this little tidbit), left him alone, and it healed on it's own. <Good... did likely rub on a/the net, perhaps something else> After a few days in the DT, I noticed that his body had lightened somewhat.  His behavior seemed completely normal otherwise, eating, grazing, etc, and the eye was healing, so again, I just waited.  Eventually, a white sore appeared near his dorsal fin. <Might be related to the same incident> This spot seemed more like a lesion, and was coupled by the rapid, severe fraying of his right pectoral fin, so I double checked my water parameters and found out that I had been using the wrong reagent to test and my nitrates were sky high... near 50-60. <Yikes... too high> I suspect that a heavy cleaning of the sand bed a week earlier disturbed algae that had grown on the top, causing it to die and DOCs to spike. <Too likely>   A series of (3) 30% water changes over the next 4 days brought nitrates down to 0.75. <Wow!>   I have observed no physical aggression towards this fish on behalf of his tankmates. 48 hours after the water changes were completed (last Thursday), I noticed that this large white lesion appeared behind the frayed right pectoral fin, along with the tissue joint between the pectoral fin and body becoming discolored as well. After many repeated attempts to get the little bugger to hold still long enough for my slow camera to get a picture, I got one of the spot.  It's attached, sorry it's not a better quality photo.  I am worried that this is a bacterial infection spreading to the body from fin rot of the right fin. <Maybe>   I have isolated this fish into a QT and have been medicating the QT with both Maracyn and Maracyn-II since Sunday evening.  I have not seen any progression of the problem, although I have seen no improvement either.   <Takes time... weeks> I am feeding the angel nightly with Ocean Nutrition Angel Formula, giving him 30 minutes to eat and siphoning the waste/leftovers from the bottom, topping off, and re-medicating.  Again, even in the QT, his behavior is completely normal. My questions are: Do you believe I have diagnosed this correctly? <Good guesses> Am I performing what you believe to be the correct treatment? <Mmm, maybe... I might have left the fish in the main display, might replace it there, "for what it's worth"> How long with these products until I can expect to see a visual result? <Weeks> I can treat for up to 10 days according to the directions... Should I be doing any other treatments?   <I would not> Can any of these other treatments be done concurrent to the Maracyn/Maracyn-II treatments, or should I stop these treatments?   <I would run out their course and then stop> If you've provided alternate suggestions, how long before I can expect to see a visual result?   Thanks in advance, Dave <Same time frame. Again... likely physical trauma and poor environment are at principal cause here... Improving the second, avoiding the first is about what this fish needs. Bob Fenner>

Koran Angel/Health  - 05/22/2006 Hello Bob, <James with you today, Bob is probably charging his tanks in HI as we speak.> <<Not quite yet today. RMF>> I always read the post and questions people have on WetWeb.  quite helpful. <It is.> I bought a Koran Angel yesterday and he looked well, ate well and I have been watching him at LFS for a week now. I  got him home and he seemed to  adjust well, in with my Porc. puffer. this morning I woke and found him to have  a blotchy appearance. he is eating well. I have no ammonia, nitrites or nitrates ( very low 5ppm). my pH is 8.2 sg. 1.01 , temp 79 he is eating well and swimming  around even bullying my puffer a little. Is this a mood thing with them? Very normal behavior.> Also  sometimes swims kinda leaning a bit/ should I be concerned?? <A normal trait.> I am! <Lori, sounds to me like a water quality issue to me.  Do read here. http://www.wetwebmedia.com/marine/fishes/angels/pomacanthus/koran.htm thanks, <Lori, in future queries, do cap all "i"s and beginnings of sentences.  Saves us much time if we do not have to edit/correct.  James (Salty Dog)> Lori Re: Koran Angel/Health  - 05/22/2006 Thank you James for answering my email so quickly. Sorry about the "I" . I did notice on my mail that I said my Sg. was 1.01. It's 1.019-1.020. I  have a protein skimmer going, a hang-on power filter and a canisters filter that  is for 150 gallon tank, Mine is 75 gallons. If I'm testing for ammonia, nitrates, nitrites and they are not really detectable then what would be wrong  with my water quality? Is there something else I should be testing in a fish  only system? <Excess organics in the water is one thing to look at.  With the use of a canister filter and a hang-on power filter, you need to ensure that the pads/sponges be changed or cleaned on a weekly basis.  Not doing so creates nutrient traps which lead to increased organics in the water, something the Koran Angel does not like.  You do not mention the model of skimmer you are using.  A good, efficient skimmer is quite necessary here.> I did notice yesterday after I wrote to you that as the day progressed his blotchy appearance seemed to have gotten less noticeable. I did look on the WetWeb info about Koran it makes me nervous because it says blotchy can lead to bacterial and or parasite infection. I also have a UV sterilizer going in that  tank. Sorry to pester you but I am looking for any other advice you can offer.  <A good healthy diet is very important to keep this angel thriving.  Ocean Nutrition has a frozen food called Angel Formula which is excellent for this family of fish.  It does contain the items these fish forage on in the wild.  Do read the FAQ's on feeding.   http://www.wetwebmedia.com/marine/fishes/angels/feeding.htm> Thanks in advance. <You're welcome.  James (Salty Dog)> Lori Re: Koran Angel/Health   5/23/06 Hello James, <Hello Lori> Well I have a Seaclone 150 skimmer, the canister is new   it's a Cascade 1200 and I rinse the sponge in the power filter in the water that  I siphoned out while doing water change. Is this correct? <Is fine.> I have that Angel Formula and believe it or not he likes flake food better. Loves flake food so I soak it in Zoe. <Good, keep offering the angel formula.  Try soaking that in Zoe, might trigger a response.> Back to the filter. Can you ruin the good bacteria in the sponge  by touching it with your hands? <No.  When replying, always reply with original message(s).  We get many queries here and I cannot remember who is who with what.> Thanks <You're welcome.  James (Salty Dog)> Lori Zoanthus/Angels  12/16/05 Hi Crew, <Hello Steven> Quick question:  I read on Mr. Fenner's article regarding Zoanthus that most living creatures give this <sic> species wide berth with the exception of a particular snail.  I bought a couple of rocks containing Zoanthus polyps on them in hope of adding some color to my FOWLR aquarium.  When I put the Zoanthids in the main display I saw my Chrysurus angel take a few "nips" off of the polyps.  The polyps closed immediately when they were nipped by the angel and every now and then I see him taking a nip.   In the article by Mr. Fenner he mentioned the toxic nature of the Zoanthus being the reason they are given their space, so my question has two parts. First:  will my prize angel get sick or poisoned?  Second:  will my newly purchased Zoanthids become a treat for my angel fish?  <Angels are not to be trusted with corals, etc.  Your new zos will more than likely be a treat.  As far as poisoning, I wouldn't worry about that, very unlikely that your angel will become sick.  I've seen Korans plucking the tips off anemones with no ill effects to the fish.  James (Salty Dog)> Your comments are greatly appreciated. <Thank you> Best Regards, Steven

Koran Angel Juv Stuffed into a 50  12/8/05 Hi,  A simple question although it's too late already as my poor Juvenile Koran has died :( Anyway here is the scenario.  Had a 50 gallon tank that had fully cycled so ph =8.3 nitrate, nitrate ammonia etc... or undetectable. So generally my water quality isn't a problem as I frequently test them. <These species of angels do require excellent water quality along with a larger tank. Your 50 is too small. I'd be looking at a 100 gallon tank minimum.>  My tank only consist of about 5 other fish (2 clowns, 2 firefish/Dartfish and a small eel) with 2 inch of sand and a couple of bits and pieces of rock and clam shells for shelter. <Eels should not be mixed with fish such as the angels as they create huge amounts of waste. Your tank is too small for the fish you are keeping especially if the clowns are the larger species such as Tomatoes and Maroons.>  Anyway I bought a small juvenile Koran angel about 3 inch in length. For the first week he was fine, eating and reacting great. Even bullying my clowns at times. As I have the tank for only about 1.5 month,  <Too short of a time for keeping angels in it. At least six months and by the sounds of your decor, not nearly enough rockwork to make the fish feel comfortable.>  I thought I'll change it to a QT as I'm planning to get a larger tank.  I therefore removed all the sand and rock etc..... in a time of 2 days. Replacing the shelters with PVC pipes.  After the removal, the water had of course became cloudy during the 2 days of removal from the sand being removed. Anyway the little Koran became very patchy and pale in colour and over the course of the next week,  <I'm sure enough hydrogen sulphide gas was stirred up to cause the problem.>  he began to not eat, then started to linger at the bottom of the tank and eventually this 2 days he's been lying on his side at the bottom of the tank. Before he was lying on the tank, when he was just lingering at bottom of tank I have noticed that the fin joints and gill cover was a little red in colour. Anyway today he has died unfortunately. When I first bought him he had 2 pale dots on his tail fin (I was thinking it might be ich but he didn't scratch and it didn't really manifest itself) but I think its not the cause of death. What I wanted to ask was, could he had died from stress  <Sure>  (although I dunno why fin joints are reddish - I was thinking it might be parasitic or bacterial) if not what other causes may have caused his death.  <Too small a tank, water quality down, lack of proper diet, no weekly water changes all lead to reducing the immune system of the fish, and they have a very low immune system to start with. You also didn't mention your means of biological filtration. Do research future fish you may purchase to be sure you can meet their requirements/needs.> Secondly, I've only bought a heater today as the weather became cool, down to about 15 degrees and all my fish stayed at bottom of tank not wanting to eat this morning. I've subsequently bought a heater now, hope it'll do better. The clowns are eating now. My firefish/Dartfish are always hiding beside the pipe not coming out. I also wanna know why are they doing this.  <Firefish do best when kept with members of their own kind and not with fish that have aggressive eating habits. They spook easily in this regard and will hide. It also sounds to me like you have not been in the hobby very long. I suggest you search our Wet Web Media site which provides answers to most questions you may have.> Thanks for your advice in advance.  <You're welcome, James (Salty Dog)>

Sick Koran Angel 10/11/05 Wet Web Crew: We have a 55 gallon tank with a Koran Angel and a Puffer fish in it. The Koran is about 3-4" long and the puffer is about 3-4" long. They get along very well. The tank has some live rock in it and also some decorative rock.  About two days ago we noticed that both fish had white spots all over their fins and bodies. We thought it was Ich and treated them for it. It did clear up, but when we read about the symptoms of Ich, it did not sound like that is what they actually had. The Koran Angel now has cloudy eyes, a swollen pink mouth and white blotches over his body. He has been stressed over the last few days due to tank changes to treat the ich a fresh water dip for only a few seconds, and a lack of appetite.  The tank he was in when we thought he had ich was dirty due to overfeeding, something I did not know could be so harmful and the water had a bit of a high nitrate level, but not too bad. We did a water change, cleaned all the equipment and put the puffer and angel back in.  Today, one day after being returned to the tank, the angel developed these symptoms. I had noticed him swimming on his side sometimes over the last few weeks, but he was eating and acting healthy. Do you have any idea what this disease could be and what would cure it? I'm afraid that if we don't know something for sure soon, the angel won't make it. We would appreciate any help. Thank you. By the way, we view your site a lot and find it very helpful.  <David and Heather, I cringe when I read queries such as yours. A picture comes into my mind of very poor diet, poor water parameters, and poor maintenance which includes weekly 10% water changes and add to the fact that your 55 is too small for keeping these types of fish as they do grow quite large. I'm seeing a rise in ammonia due to excess waste and a biofiltering system too small to recover. All this leads to severe stress of the animals in question making them highly susceptible to disease.  I can suggest that both fish should be separated for the time being either in separate Quarantine tanks or using a tank divider if QT's are not available. Then you need to get a product such as SeaCure Copper Treatment along with a FasTest Copper test kit and maintain a dose of 0.015-0.020 for a minimum of 21 days. The test kit is necessary especially if you are going to treat in the main tank.  Hopefully you can save the fish. You didn't mention what you initially treated the fish with and for how long. In the future do more research on the fish you are buying so you know its requirements/needs. James (Salty Dog)>

Re: Sick Koran Angel 10/12/05 Actually, our biofiltering system is larger than what we need for the tank and when these fish outgrow the tank they are in we are transferring them to an 80 gallon tank.  <Good news. The Koran alone would require a 70 gallon tank when it is full grown and this is borderline, preferably a six foot long tank.>  I appreciate your advice and assure that we take good care of our tanks. <Great>  We have three of them. something just went wrong in this one. We did a 25-30% water change before putting the fish back in the tank and the nitrate level was never high. We checked it very regularly. At this time, they are both small and the tank seems big enough for the two of them.  <Agreed, now it is but won't be for long.> Can you tell me if this is true? Do they need a bigger tank now, even though the puffer and angel are not full grown?  <A rule of thumb I use is one cubic (not length) inch of fish per five gallons.>  It sounds like you are not positive we can save the fish - which would break my heart.  <I'm always on the positive side. Problem is if treatment is delayed the fish only gets worse and then to the point where the copper treatment even adds further stress.> The puffer is lethargic this morning and I don't know if he was sleeping or whether he is not developing symptoms as well - can the disease be spread?  <Most definitely. Do you employ a quarantine tank to put new arrivals in? Read here. http://www.wetwebmedia.com/QuarMarFishes.htm> I really am sorry about all this. Our other two tanks are fine.  <Great>  One is a reef tank and we have lost nothing from that tank in months. We did introduce a Petco baby tank  <baby tank or tang?>  into the tank with the puffer and angel - it died in two days. Could this possibly have been the start of these diseases. <Yes, tanks/tangs are ich magnets and should definitely be quarantined.> If I treat the angel with copper, does it have a better chance of living? I have read that angel fish are extremely sensitive to copper treatments.  <Correct, that is why it is a must to use a copper test kit to insure copper is at a safe and effective level.> I'm sorry that the tank was not better cared for,  <You don't have to be sorry to me, but it sure sounds like you are a caring person that will do whatever it takes to keep your stock healthy. Please read more on the WWM. FAQ's allow you to learn from other peoples mistakes. Again, research a fish you are interested in, especially care level, compatibility and size of tank required. www.liveaquaria.com  has a chart for every fish indicating the above.>  but I assure you that we did test the water and because of the filtering system on the tank, everything always seemed fine. However, our test kit cannot test for calcium and some of the more advanced water test items.  <Wouldn't be too concerned with calcium in a fish only tank, although too low a level can cause the ph to drop somewhat. Do test for dKH, 8-12dkh is recommended.>  I honestly thought I was doing the right thing and would hate to lose these fish over my lack of knowledge.  <All the knowledge you need can be had for free on the WWM.>  Any additional advice you can provide would be greatly appreciated. Thank you very much. I know I asked a lot of questions in this e-mail and hope you will be kind enough to answer them.  <We are here to help. Most if not all of the questions you ask can easily be found on the Wet Web by just typing in the keyword.> The angel does seem a bit better today and I got both fish to eat some Krill last night. Their diet is now more varied than it was, and I hope it is not too late. Losing these fish would break my heart because it would be my own fault for lack of knowledge.  <Again, Heather, definitely read about what you are getting. Korans are not that difficult to care for. They do require clean water, low nitrates, 10% weekly water changes and a good and varied diet. Read again here. http://www.wetwebmedia.com/marine/fishes/angels/ - Good luck, James (Salty Dog)> 

Koran Angel health concern 8/1/05 Hi, <Hello there> I have been referring to this fantabulous site for various kinds of information and I have never failed to find the same, this is the first time 'am asking an question. <Welcome, you are a stranger here but once> The other day I bought myself a Koran Angel...the Angel is doing great and it is quite active and eats quite well but I have noticed some white patches on its body and it seems to rub itself surfaces. Ich is ruled out because it does not look like ich as in there are not dots or spots on the body just a general discolouration i.e. white patches. Any help will help. Regards Rajeev Menon <This medium sized species of angelfish is prone to such behavior, displays when new or stressed... I would not panic, treat the water with chemicals. Bob Fenner> Koran Angel I've done a thorough search and can't find any article about the symptoms similar to that of my Koran Angelfish.  Everyone talks about white spots or fuzzy cotton spots.  What about red bumps?  My angel is in a 55 gal and was doing fine the first week in his new home.  He then developed red bumps, irregular in shape, looking similar to a mole, on both sides of his body directly behind his fins.  One grew quite large and the other side of his body looked as if it was going to clear up.  No such luck.  While the bump on one side isn't as big, it is larger in diameter, flat, and almost a little bloody looking.  The only other fish in the tank is my little "Nemo" Clown, yellow Tang, and 2 green Chromis.  I have moved him to a quarantine tank of 10 gallons.  I should mention that his appetite is hearty as ever.  I really hope you can help with this.  I am quite attached to this particular fish as he is very sweet and tame to the point of being friendly when my hand goes in the tank and even lets me touch him.  Help!!  Thanking you in advance for your consideration, Bobbi  <Bobbi, without seeing it, I'm thinking these spots are ulcers.  I would start be treating with saltwater Maracyn.  Water quality is of the utmost importance for these fish.  Weekly water changes of 10% is highly recommended.  I would also add an iodine supplement to the aquarium.  James (Salty Dog)>

Koran Angel eye problem, needing to read WWM I have searched your site for days and haven't found a solid answer to my question. I have Koran angel, when bought he had a cloudy eye. I was told it was like a black eye and it would get better, which it started to. After 2 weeks it was slowly getting better. Today I checked and both eyes are cloudy. They are not bulging, just cloudy. The other fish in the tank are fine, and my water quality is great........What is going on??? Please give me some advice <Trouble... please read on WWM re Angelfish disease... you will find many references to your situation, proposed and actual cures. Bob Fenner> 

Cloudy crystal ball, Pomacanthus semicirculatus eyes My Koran Angel's eye's are both cloudy. He/she is in a quarantine tank and have been adding Maracyn 2, for 3 days now. How long until I can see some results?? <Perhaps weeks, maybe never. Bob Fenner> 

Penalty box for a rambunctious Koran Angel Hello, My large juvenile Koran has become so intolerant of new additions, I've had to take him out of my 180 gallon tank and place him in the quarantine tank while I acclimate my newbie. In your opinion, what is an adequate time away from the tank before re-introducing him? The tank is mainly aggressive, and he's been in charge for four years. Thanks for your thoughts. Steve <About a week should do it... Bob Fenner> 

Koran Angel Hello again, just a quick question for you. I have a 135 gallon tank, with 120 pounds of live rock, lots of open swimming room and so on, I was thinking of a larger angel as a show piece. I really like the Koran but realize he gets too big for my tank.<Hello Sharon. I personally think a 135 is large enough for a Koran as long as the tank is not overstocked with other fish. Most Korans for sale are no more than four inches long. It takes quite some time before the Koran will outgrow this tank. I have had one three years and in that time it only grew about three to four inches.> Is there any other semi large angels that you can recommend?<Outside of the pygmy family, I don't know.> I don't plan on getting a larger tank. Maybe a Genicanthus? I hope to turn it into a semi reef, I already have a coral beauty <Good luck. James (Salty Dog)> Koran Angel Hi Bob, <Travois>     Sorry to bother you, hope you aren't too tired of turkey yet!! <I REALLY like Turkey> I am a newbie at marine tanks and I bought a juve Koran Angel about 2.5 inches today along with a 3 inch Naso (lipstick) Tang. I know they (Koran's) like to "nip" inverts. My question is this. I have a new 75 gallon tank (approx. 6 wks old), no real corals, one nocturnal sessile anemone, and some tube worms (also an apparent outbreak of feather duster/ tubeworm larvae upstarts all over my LR). <No worries> Can this one small fish devastate my inverts, or will he just take a taste now and then and allow them to continue to grow as long as I sell him, or upgrade my tank to a much larger one before he matures? I appreciate you time on this one. Sincerely, The Newb Travois <Likely no trouble whatsoever. Bob Fenner> P.S. I'd still like to get some established soft corals and a clown

Koran in Reef? >Howzit guys? >>Itz goin' a'ight.  Snowy, chilly, but pretty cool all in all. >First off I just wanna thank all of you running the WetWebMedia.Com site.  Keep up the great work knowing that without this site a lot of marine aquarists, including myself, would have made big expensive and shame full mistakes. >>And freshwater aquarists, and brackish water aquarists, and the odd herp fan or two.  Then there are the school kids and teachers and people wondering about cures gained from aquatic specimens and so on and so forth.  So, what's up? >Now onto my question.  I recently purchased a 2 inch Koran Angelfish from my LFS.  He had been in quarantine for about 2 weeks @ the shop and has been in my quarantine tank for about 1 week. >>VERY cool.  30 days total disease-free, and he's on his way. >I have given him 1 freshwater dip but otherwise no medication. He's eating Nori, Spirulina, algae and Artemia daily. >>Fantastic, but I think he needs a better variety of meaty foods.  Add some chopped krill, squid, octopus, and the like, and soak the Nori/dried foods in Selcon and MAN he'll be righteous in no time! >My question is would he be all right in my 135 gallon reef tank? >>Hhmm.. full reef?  Softies, stonies, LPS/SPS?  Clams..? >This tank currently houses 2 black clowns, 2 ocellaris clowns, 1 cleaner wrasse (that I've watched change coloration from baby to juvenile and now coming on adult) and 1 Regal tang, 1 Cleaner Shrimp, 1 Pot Wine Shrimp, Hermits and Turbos. >>I'm sure you've heard this before, but the cleaner wrasse will have trouble doing well in a system that is not only small, but has a very real dearth of LARGE fishes upon which to perform its duties.  Hopefully, whatever prepared foods he gets will be good enough, but this is often not the case.  (This note is for other readers' benefit as well as yours.) >All these fish are babies and have been doing fine for quite a few months now. >>Likely they will/should, but all will grow, and grow a great deal if your system is in top notch shape.  Do be prepared to pull the tang, the cleaner wrasse (possibly donate to public aquarium if such is nearby and suitable), as well as the Koran in around two to three years.. maybe less if you're REALLY good! >I've also got a mixed variety of LPS, SPS, 1 Maxima Clam and 1 Radianthus Anemone. >>I would not put a large angel into this mix.  I would expect LPS, clam, and quite possibly the anemone to all be sampled to death. >I'm still looking to add a Flame Hawkfish, 2 Neon Gobies, 1 Yellow Tang and 1 Flame Angel. >>In my opinion, when including the large fishes, you may quickly see them become overcrowded.  Those numbers and types of fish would be better in a system approximately double the current size.  Things to watch for are disease, infighting with lethal consequences, and a failure to thrive. >Will this be a tall order and if so which would be the best to leave out? >>I would really be careful with the angel and those LPS corals, the clam, and the anemone.  Really.  I'm glad you're adding the Z. flavescens later.  As for the neon gobies, I would use THEM for cleaner duties instead of the wrasse.  I really love these diminutive little fishes - they're colorful, peaceful, hardy, easy to feed, and just plain neat-O!  In a system that size you could easily put in a rather large group, 5-10. >I could take the Ocellaris clowns out at a later stage if need be cause they're also harassing my black clowns. >>To be expected.  You may wish to go ahead and get it over and done with. >I'm running an Aqua Medic T1000 Skimmer. >>I think that animal should be performing well for you.  Have you mentioned a refugium?  I think that for the animal numbers you have and are looking to acquire, you could use a 40-50 gallon 'fuge.  Increases water volume, AND you can culture cool macroalgae to feed the tangs! >In the long run the Koran will out grow the tank but by that time my 3.5m x 1m x 1m fish only tank will be up and he'll be moved. >>Excellent!  This still may not prevent him from enjoying the table you've set, but in a large system he'll really enjoy him/herself. >Bearing in mind somebody else took home a Koran the same size from the same shipment and he's doing fine in the reef set-up he's being kept in. >>Keep their bellies full and you may have a greater chance of fewer upsets, but be prepared for the worst.  A balance needs to be struck.  What is worth more to you?  Many folks are simply unwilling to take any risks with their reefs, others have frags practically growing out of their ears.  Just be aware.  Oh!  Also, I can't remember the thread (DO search!), but someone on http://www.reefs.org started a thread asking about large Pomacanthids in reef settings some months ago; who's done it and succeeded, or what were your results sort of thing.  There are those who have had success, but I honestly cannot recollect their system specs. >Any information will be greatly appreciated.  Thanks in advance - Daniel >>I'm assuming you've already searched our site for whatever information we have to offer, including the angel faq's.  Not too long ago.. alright, I admit, it's getting on to twenty years, but to ME it's not too long ago.. where was I..?  Oh yeah, not too long ago the 'rule' was NO large angels in any reef of any kind.  Of course, at this time the 'rule' was also that it was impossible to keep SPS stonies, so, there ya go.  I'd like to ask you to keep us updated, though, on what results you have, behaviors observed, etc. with this angel in your system.  Photos would be nice, but we do ask that all photos submitted be limited to around 300 pixels a side (for space/bandwidth constraints).  My point is, it would add to the data/knowledge base, and thus be helpful.  Whatever you decide to do, good luck!  Marina

Koran in Reef? Follow-up >Thanks for the quick and accurate response. >>Quick, yes, I'm not so sure how accurate it is.  There are always exceptions to the rules. >I haven't really heard exactly why cleaners don't do well in the marine system. >>It is at least hypothesized (if not yet proven) that prepared foods don't provide full nutrition for them.  The same can be said for animals such as mandarin gobies in immature systems.  Natural food selection means the animal can essentially choose its nutrition according to needs, whereas with prepped foods it doesn't have that choice.  Since yours is doing so well, I'd guess that you're feeding quite well, and/or there are some other needs being met. >All I know is that I've had mine for about 6-months and he's about double the size he was when I got him, he's also eating and is rather plump at the moment. >>You're adding to the knowledge base, if you got yourself a young individual and he's acclimated nicely to prepped foods, and lives out a natural lifespan, then your techniques and information could be invaluable to helping prevent needless deaths.  Should you wish to share this information with us, as well as long-term follow-up, it would be placed in our database. >I'm currently running a 100 litre sump with natural aragonite, liverock and Caulerpa.  At the moment I'm going to do more research until the quarantine is over. You can never know too much. >>Indeed, or be too prepared, or have too big a refugium! >Should I place some coral into the quarantine tank and see if he samples them. >>My goodness, well, my friend, if you've got frags to spare, I honestly don't see why NOT.  I think it's a good idea, actually. >One of my friends placed a large regal angel into his 1.5m x 60cm x 1m reef and in the beginning he sampled everything and finished a xenia or two. But now he's not touching anything and is eating flakes. >>Wow, now that's impressive, seeing as how they're commonly considered corallivores.  I know of one other person (personally) who's got Regals that are doing well, but they're FOWLR, not actual reef settings.  His fish do look pretty good. >It seems like the fashion overseas, I'm situated in South Africa, to try and wean large angels of corals and keep them in the reef. >>Hhmm.. it's been too long since I've kept my own fish or had any customers for me to speak intelligently on what's *de riguer*, here or in Europe, etc.  Whereabouts in S.A.?  Durban?  (Had a friend who was living in Durban, now in southern Holland if I recollect.) >P.S. Do you think I should go for a natural quarantine tank with cleaner shrimp or a synthetic one with copper etc.? >>It is my opinion that a q/t system should not be stressful, but really must be ready for meds IF they're warranted.  That means a bare tank (but with hiding places made of easily sterilized PVC pieces).  There are others who disagree.  In any event, I personally don't advocate the hobbyist using copper prophylactically.  If it's not obviously necessary, there's no reason to stress the fish with it.  Just have it on hand if it does become needed, and with the tank bare (no live rock, or other porous materials) you can treat immediately. >Thanks again. I'll tell you what's happening in about 3 weeks when quarantining is over. Does it need to be 30 days in my quarantine alone or 30 days in mine and the shop's? >>30 days, under YOUR observation, disease-free, mate.  Then you're golden, Daniel.  Marina

Koran in Reef - Z. flavescens Didn't Make It >Hey! >>Hello from way up here to way down south there!  How are you doing, Daniel?  (I've been in Chicago, I had another message from you that I was saving to put along with this, but it's nowhere to be found.) >A few days ago I added a Healthy Yellow Tang from an established system where it had been 4 years. >>Uh oh.. this sounds as though you didn't qt this fish. >It was eating algae and flakes almost immediately. >>Ok, that sounds fine. >Then on the 2'nd day it stopped eating. On the third day in the  morning it was breathing really fast and it seemed that he had a really obvious red mottled kind of splotch on his one side. >>This is so common, but I haven't yet read/found a definitive cause for this.  Usually, and especially in a healthy system, they can recover after a time.  Normally this takes some weeks, though.  The rapid gilling is a bad sign of stress, infection, or possible parasitic infection, though. >I then had to leave for school and when I got back it was dead. >>JEEZ!  That fast?  Not even a day?  Could another fish in the system possibly have been harassing it?  Something's going on there, and I feel I must assume that you know full well how to acclimate, about pH shifts, etc., to have not been diligent in putting him into the system (except for skipping quarantine - this is simply because you haven't mentioned it). >P.S The Koran seems to be chowing the Pulsing Xenia. >>Heh, I know some people who would like to have him in their systems, their xenia have exploded to plague proportions! >Monitoring the situation but I think he may have to be removed. >>Hm, too bad.  What about the person with the other Koran that came from the same batch?  Are they having the same problems? >P.P.S I've got a longnose hawkfish in quarantine. How long will he need to be in for? He's looking really healthy. >>Repeat the following mantra - "Thirty days DISEASE FREE, and this little fish will please me."  <insert silly grin> >Thanks in advance. >>You're welcome, and sorry for the delay, Daniel.  Marina

Angelfish size, age, metamorphosis and tiny stars I have a Koran Angelfish. I have had him for 6 months. He seems to be growing fairly fast. When do they change to the adult color.....is it age or size? <A bit of both... Korans will change at a smaller size as they grow older... or vice versa> He is around 3" now. I also have had little animals that look like star fish. I have had them for 3 years. I keep on getting more and they are increasing in size. The biggest ones are 3/8" . Some have 5 legs and some have 6. The legs seems to get longer as they get bigger. Are they small star fish or is there another animal that is small the looks similar to starfish? <Likely are seastars of sorts. Please review the Seastar ID sections on WWM re> They are white-cream in color and like to attach themselves to my glass and live rock. Thanks,      Cheryl <Sound like Asterina sp. to me, Bob Fenner> Kooky Koran Color Change? I was wondering if you could put my mind at rest. <I'll try! Scott F. here today!> I have a Koran angel approximately 4 inches long that has started to appear a little pink. The nearly black/dark blue areas on the fish between the white semi circles appear to be fading and becoming pink all over the fish. The water quality tests for ammonia, nitrite and pH all appear to be fine, as are the other tank mates. The Koran is active and behaving normally and eating well. Is it undergoing the change or should I be concerned? <At this point, I would not be overly concerned, provided that the water conditions and overall health seem to be in order. If the skin appears to be healthy, it may just be a "variation" on the color change process. Keep water quality high, and the feedings up...Observe the fish continuously, and be prepared to take action if it becomes necessary. Good luck! Regards, Scott F.> It is my favorite fish and I wouldn't want anything to happen to it.<With good water, good food, and careful observation, if something DOES happen, you'll be ready to intervene before a problem gets out of hand! Regards, Scott F> 

Sick Koran Angel (4/28/04)   My Koran Angel has been with me for many years. <How many? IS it just getting old?> Recently he has gone off eating and his eyes are very puffy. They look like they have been blown up. One of the eyes seems to have a raised bubble on it. I do not have a hospital tank. Any suggestions? <This sounds like a bacterial infection. If you want to save this fish, you need to set up a hospital tank. This can be a Rubbermaid container with a sponge filter and a heater. I'd suggest treating with an antibiotic such as Maracyn. Read the FAQs on Popeye & bacterial infections. Hope this helps. Steve Allen.>

Hand-caught semicirculatus acting strangely... survival value? G'Day recently i caught a juvenile semicirculatus, about 2cm long (with my bare hands - no net - how clever am i!) and about 2 weeks later noticed it suddenly swimming erratically, almost as though it was paralyzed on one side, swimming towards the surface only to float back to near the bottom, bumped into my anemone twice during this then came to rest on its side on the gravel at the back of the tank - this all took about 1-2minutes. I was sure the fish was toast (despite seeming happy, fed & fat just prior) but gave it a poke - it struggled up and swam feebly to its favourite hiding spot & hovered - 1 minute later was swimming round the tank like nothing happened!!?? ever seen anything like this?? has been a month now and fish is as happy as ever! thanks Jeremy <I have heard and discussed the "acting gimpy" survival value of juvenile fishes with others... as well as the possibility that their "lack of neurological development" at small sizes, early age might account for these seemingly odd episodes... Does seem that "acting odd" might have some survival value... in that predators might not recognize you as a prey item, or de-select you as one unfit to consume. What do you think? Bob Fenner>

Semicirculatus behavior... theories That's an interesting theory - I have a few problems with it though. 1. I chased the fish for 2 hours when catching it and it didn't exhibit this behaviour. 2. As all good fishermen know, an injured fish is a tasty fish (to larger fish) <Not necessarily. I can cite many examples of predators avoiding prey that is exhibiting odd behavior> 3. Swimming into a large anemone can't be pleasant - my fish did it twice in a minute. I'm going to go with the neurological theory. Maybe he had a transient ischemic event or something?? <Perhaps. Bob Fenner>

Tangs And Angels Hi Scott How are u? <Hi there! Getting over a lingering flu, but raring to go today!> I am thinking of purchasing a Yellow Tang in the near future what is the best food to feed this guy. <Well, these fishes are renowned for their vegetarian preferences. The ultimate food, IMO, would be some fresh Gracilaria macroalgae> I had a look at your site and everybody has their own opinions. Can you tell me what you think would be the best way to go. <A varied diet, with a heavy emphasis on vegetable matter (of marine origin- NOT lettuce or terrestrial greens)> Also how big does one's tank need to be to house a Semicircular Angel. and how difficult are these guys to keep? <If you are referring to Pomacanthus semicirculatus, you'd need a very large tank, IMO. Like hundreds of gallons, and at least 8 feet in length. These guys can easily attain an adult size of 12-15 inches or more, and range over a wide range in nature. Quite honestly, I don't like to encourage people to keep large angels like this species in captivity. They are gorgeous, and reasonable hardy, but trying to keep a fish like this in a typical sized tank would be like condemning yourself to a life in your living room! It may be okay at first, but in the long run, it would become a miserable and agonizing experience for the fish. I would rather encourage you to investigate many of the gorgeous, small Centropyge angelfish species. These "smaller models" are usually much better suited for captive care, IMO> Thanks Again Ziad <Always a pleasure! Regards, Scott F> Regards Ziad Limbada

Carpet Munching Angel >Is it normal for my juvenile Koran angelfish fish to continually nip at my new (approx 1 week old) green carpet anemone?   >>The angel isn't one week old, he's been in your system one week, yes?  (Oh, I do hope quarantine has been done first!).  Short answer, yes, it's normal.. well, not exactly normal, but not unusual.  Of course, I have honestly never kept a Koran with a carpet anemone. >How is he doing this without getting stung?   >>Not all fish are as susceptible to nematocysts as others, though those of a carpet do pack a punch!  I would either remove the anemone, or the angel.  Do expect the fish to continue until the anemone dies. >He is nipping right at the tentacles.  My Percula clown will not go near the anemone yet.  Do I need to do anything to protect the anemone?     Thanks, Brian F >>You really can't, short of removing one or the other.  The clown WON'T go near the anemone if it's too small to have any hope of driving off the angel.  A tomato, maroon, or skunk clown pair, now they might have something different to say on the matter!  Marina

Aggressive Koran Angel Hi WWM Crew, <Hi, Don with you today> I need some of that knowledgeable advice you guys are so wonderful about giving. I?m just starting out with a newer 55 gallon with 4" of live sand and 75# of live rock. All water parameters are great, Ricordea Mushrooms are thriving and the snails have been happily doing their jobs for about 7 months. The problem is my very aggressive Koran Angel. (He was an impulse buy ? so pretty?and now after doing research I know the tank is to small for long-term ? Hoping he will be OK for a couple of years ? if he makes it?) He was one of four fish added when the water was safe, and is definitely the king of the tank. Mated Ocellaris Clowns, and a strawberry Pseudochromis were his tank mates. The female Clown jumped out after 3 months , and I had to put the Pseudochromis in the quarantine tank for safety as she and the Angel were so hostile towards each other. I rearranged the rocks and added a tiny little Ocellaris Clown (after a month in another 20 g quarantine tank), which the other clown seemed to accept, but was harassed by the Angel. I thought they would adjust, but in the morning the little clown was no where to be found. Besides the Angel, there isn?t anything in the tank that could have harmed the little one. Now the Angel is taking shots at the male Clown ? besides the cleaner shrimp and snails, if anything moves in or even goes close to the tank it gets attacked. Seriously, the Angel attacks the glass if anybody sits in front of the tank ? this behavior occurs even after he is feed. When you move back he stops, when you move back up he?s biting the glass in front of you. I really do not want to return the Angel, but I can not allow him to misbehave so terribly and he seems to be getting worse. I don?t know, maybe he is board and needs some dither fish? Following is the plan to expand my reef and hopefully settle down the Angel, please let me know your thoughts. <It needs more room and fewer other fish in this small of tank> Quarantine Angel for about 6-8 weeks in 20 gallon tank (this should allow enough time for the new members to established territories) Rearrange rocks Add Royal Gramma, False Percula Clown, Flasher Wrasse, Midas Blenny, Purple Tang, Purple Blade Gorgo, Toadstool Leather, Cabbage Leather, Lobophytum Leather, Blue and Red Mushrooms Reintroduce Angel I?m hoping since he hasn?t bothered the Ricordeas, the other corals will be fine ? I am really worried about the little fish, although I think the Tang would be OK. I am attached to the little psycho, but if I want other fishes, maybe I just have to cut my losses? After 2 years, if I did wait and set up the 125 ? what other fishes could get along with him? <I understand you position and anguish but I would not reintroduce the angel. I would not introduce the purple tang (or any other tang) for the same reasons as the angel (aggressive and too big for a 55) The rest of the list, with the Pseudochromis, looks good. Personally, I would stop there as there are many benefits to a small load on a system. Hope this helps, Don> Sorry for the length, but I?m really torn - any input would be greatly appreciated.

Koran Angel with white patches G'day guys. <Good day Stu> I have a 3-4 inch Koran Angelfish in my reef tank. He is a lovely looking fish and is a big eater. In the last few weeks I have noticed that he has been getting white faded patches on his body and fins. Not everywhere but just small circular patches. Can you advise what this is as I don't think is has to do with the maturity process. Also how can rid it off the fish if necessary. Any medication or treatment in a reef tank?? Also are UV sterilizers a worth while purchase as they do get rid of the pathogens and algae. But doesn't the algae help sustain the environment and help feed the corals, fish and inverts and therefore use of the nitrates. Stu <The "blanching" you describe might be indicative of sliding water quality or some other sort of stress (even simply psychological), otherwise maybe just the fish reacting to your presence. Unless you see other symptoms of infectious or parasitic disease I would not treat or move this fish. UV's can help in promoting overall health by improving water quality and reducing populations of water-borne microbes. They will not eliminate the possibility or absolutely cure biological disease. Bob Fenner>

Waiting for Change...  3/8/03 I know my tank is overstocked and within the next 6 month I have plans to build a new box that will be about 8 feet by 3 feet by 3 feet or around 300 gallons I think.<538.5 gallons to be exact... A very large but nice tank.  Will be better for you and your aquatic friends.> I do have an oversized sump with an oversized protein skimmer so I am able to keep my water chemistry under control.<Good good good!>  I have had the Koran Angel about a year now... when will it change color?<Adult coloration patterns are attained at a size of six-seven inches plus. Please see here for more info... http://www.wetwebmedia.com/marine/fishes/angels/pomacanthus/koran.htm Hope this helps and good luck!!  Phil>

Koran Angel question Hi, we have a Koran angel fish that is about 2 years old and is trying to reach its intermediate color phase of life, However, he?s not doing so well, his face has turned a whitish color, he has a slightly high breathing rate (approx 108/min), and some whitish stripes are near his tail fin and streak inwards on his body. These whitish streaks on his body and face are not bumps or leaches. Also, he?s not eating and tends to just stay in his rocky cove where he sleeps. Any ideas what might be the problem and/or cure? <Mmm, sounds much like the beginnings of HLLE, likely triggered by poor water quality and/or nutrition.> Thanks, we have really grown fond of our Koran Angel and want to see him obtain his adult colors someday. <Please read through the HLLE FAQs here: http://www.wetwebmedia.com/hllefaqs.htm and re the species on our site: http://www.wetwebmedia.com/marine/fishes/angels/pomacanthus/koran.htm and the related FAQs (in blue, at top) and check your water quality for nutrient accumulation aspects, spiff up your skimmer, consider augmenting your fish's diet with vitamins, iodide. Bob Fenner>

Koran In Trauma! Hi guys I have a question on my 2 inch Koran angel that is not eating and has a hole in his body that has a red ring around it any information on this disease would be greatly appreciated thanks! <Well, hard to say without a good picture, but it almost sounds like you are dealing with some form of parasite, or even an infection brought about by some trauma (injury, bite, etc). In the absence of other obvious disease symptoms, I'd remove this fish to a separate aquarium for observation and/or treatment. You should keep water quality in the treatment tank absolutely pristine, to prevent potential greater infection. If there does indeed to be some form of parasite, I'd use some freshwater dips, followed by a broad spectrum antibiotic, such as Maracyn, to prevent even greater infection during the healing process...Do refer to the disease FAQs on the wetwebmedia.com site, and confirm what it may be that you're dealing with here! Let me know if we can be of any further help! Good luck! Scott F>

Re: Koran Angel Problem Hi, Thanks for your reply! I checked out that website and it was really interesting. It didn't say much about disease though, do you have any idea to what his problem might be or what I can do to help. The people at the petstore suggested he might have a throat tumor but I can't find anything about fish getting them online so I wanted to see if it was possible that it was anything treatable. Could this behavior be associated with the color changing? To answer your questions: Yes it is a tank full of live rock, I have two millennium 3000 filters one on each side, I have a protein skimmer and a power head. The salinity is at 1.022, temp is at 81F. The tank mates are: a small Chromis, two chalk Basslets, a small target goby, two cleaner shrimp, a green abalone, a pencil urchin. a maroon clown, and a bulb anemone. Thanks! ~Neosha~    <Please read here: http://www.wetwebmedia.com/MarInd3of6.htm skip on down to the marine disease area, and read starting from the top articles, FAQs. Bob Fenner> Re: Koran Angel Problem Hi Mr. Fenner, I checked out the FAQ and I did gain a lot of valuable information from it but I did not find anyone with a similar situation to mine. All of the other fish that wouldn't eat had problems but my fish has no white spots, no cloudy eyes, no gill flaring, nothing I saw on the site. So what I really want to know is...have you heard of any problem that might make a fish not be able to physically eat even though the have the appetite for it? <Yes... there are several cases like this noted on WWM> Do you recommend a freshwater dip for the fish? <No, won't help here.> Many thanks, Neosha PS I just noticed you are the author of  "The Conscientious Marine Aquarist" which I just bought a few weeks ago, well done, great book! <Thank you, Bob Fenner>

Help! blotchy faced Koran Angelfish Hi, I am hoping you can give me some advice. I have a Koran Angelfish that looks like he is experiencing early male pattern baldness.  His color was solid all over when I bought him.  He picked up ich about 2 weeks after I brought him home, but freshwater baths and the addition of a scarlet cleaner shrimp did the trick.  A few weeks later after he was all cleared up the color on his face area started to look blotchy and turned white in a very evenly matched pattern on his face.  He was about 3 1/2 inches when I first bought him and now he's almost double that so he's starting to go through the change of life to adulthood coloration.  I have had him for over 6 months now.  Water is great, he's happy and eats a balanced diet.  He's the master of his own tank (no one is terrorizing him and stressing him out).  Any advice as to what this is and what I can do to even out his skin color again? Thanks for your expertise. Jen <Very often, well often enough, the blotchiness you mention in this species is indication of the beginning of HLLE: Please see here: http://www.wetwebmedia.com/hllefaqs.htm I would look into augmenting this fish's diet with iodide and vitamins A and D... there are products sold pre-made for this in the pet-fish interest. Bob Fenner>

Important fish question Hi Zo I had written to you a couple of months ago about my 33 gal FO tank. I am writing again because I need some advice and you have not been writing on the forum, and I kind of need your advice in this matter. I have a yellow tang, a coral beauty, a cinnamon clown, and a flame goby in my 33 gal. All around 2-3 inches in size. I have a sea-clone 150, a Fluval 204, and 25 lbs of live rock (or what could be dead since I used copper). I saw this baby Koran (1-2 inches) and I fell in love with it. It is not too expensive ($20), and I just can't resist thinking about it. I know that my tank is no where near the size this fish needs when full grown, but what are my chances given its size right now? I know I am going against all fish-keeping rules on this matter, but please do try to understand :) I do consistent water changes and feed quite a lot of seaweed (which this fish needs). I keep the salinity at 1.019. Do I even have a chance in hell?????? please say yes :) Thank you in advance and I am sorry to bother you. Sincerely, MO <Mohammed - I'm very sorry to disappoint you, but the Koran is a challenging fish to keep, it can be prone to HLLE (head and lateral line erosion) and often, the root cause cannot even be ascertained. The aquarist can have apparently perfect water quality, feed an excellent variety of the necessary diet, and still the fish will waste away.  In such a small tank, already crowded by a fast moving tang, busy angel, and one of the more aggressive clownfish, you are really, really asking for trouble. The Tang and the Koran can reach more than 10 inches, and both are very active, curious animals - 33 gallons is not enough for the Tang you already have. Dream of the beautiful Koran angelfish - and start planning and budgeting now for the 150 gallon (minimum) system you need to do justice to this incredible animal. (Your Yellow Tang needs this as well, and is certainly almost as deserving as the Koran) Best Regards, Lorenzo>

Koran Angel in small space Zo, I know I am not even supposed to ask you this, but humor me please: What is the worst that could happen? What if this Koran is a hardy one and can live for a year or two before outgrowing my tank? Is this even possible/doable? I sincerely thank you for your help and prompt reply as well as your clear concern and willingness to help other fish-hobbyists. Thank you MO <Mohammed, a Koran Angel in your crowded 33g will be dead within several months, no matter how hardy. I know you'll do the right thing!  Plan, wait, save - for your bigger tank! Best Regards, Lorenzo>

Koran Angel Change of Life Hey again guys. I wonder if you've been asked this before...I couldn't find an answer here. How can I tell if my Koran Angel is in the changing process or if he's sick? The coloration is still bright, but he's starting to look "smudgy." I don't know if this is cause for concern or if it's time for him to go toward his adult coloration. All other fish seem fine. Thanks as always for the input. Matt <Hmm, they do look "smudgy" (muted, lighter toward mid-flanks) as they are changing... If all the other livestock are okay... I'd assume the fish was just undergoing the transformation. Bob Fenner>

Angelfish Questions Love the website. I'm considering a juvenile Koran Angelfish for my 80 gallon tank. I have plans for a larger tank in the future. What is the minimum size for this species? <This fish gets to 15" long. A six foot tank in the 125 gallon range would be an appropriate minimum.> Will the Koran and a dwarf angel (Eibl's, or coral beauty) co-exist? <Given enough room, one larger Angelfish can be safely housed with one of the dwarf varieties.> Or is it one angel per tank, period? Thank you, Rich. <Have a nice day. -Steven Pro>

Koran Angel Hi Anthony, one quick question with my 90G FOWLR. My Koran angel gets what I will call smudges on his pectoral fins. This makes the fins look cloudy without and detail such as a Cryptocaryon pin spot. In a day or two they disappear. sometimes they are gone for two weeks, other times they come back two days later.  <sounds like mucous from irritation. Could be parasitic... I'm wondering if you don't have 3+ F degree temperature swings between day and night. Do check> Today, this "bacterial infection" (guess??) is back but just on one side. Any idea what this is?  <very unlikely bacterial> Should I worry? Thanks Larry  P.S. I've attached a picture, but I don't think it will help.....I need to capture just the correct angle, or else the fin looks fine. <if the fish will eat try medicated food for a spell but do keep a close eye in case QT is necessary. Angels are so prone to full blown parasite infections that we cannot take this lightly. Anthony>

Re: Koran Angel Thanks for the quick response. I will start feeding medicated food. This fin problem has been ongoing for more than two months. I should have told you that my Purple Tang has never shown any signs of this (but his pectoral fins are yellow not clear)... <no matter... every fish has indeed different immunities/sensitivities to various pathogens by species and per individual... just like people> however my Coris Gaimard did show the exact same fin clouding (only pectoral fin, not on any other fin that I can detect) with it disappearing in a day or two. I don't think it comes back as often as the Angel, maybe because the Coris swims so fast it's harder to see? I will check the water parameters as well as I don't test this tank as closely as my 125g. However the water changes are up to date so I don't expect any surprises. The temperature is very constant at 82 degrees, <excellent> it may dip to 81 when I open the window on cool nights.  <surprising the open window only affords a one degree dip> I have a Mag 12 return in sump on the 90g... something I would not due in the future as it put too much heat in the water. Thanks Larry <not too much heat if the temp is steady. 82F is quite fine. Best regards my friend, Anthony>

Re: Koran Angel Thanks Anthony, your reassurance with temperature is removing some of my frustration with the what I would call high temperature (82). My 125 is constant at 77-78 so my 90 at 82 I thought was high.  <higher temps (82-86) are not very dangerous in tanks with good aeration and if the temp is steadily high. However, a jump from 78-82 is just plain dangerous if that is occurring. Anything over 3F between day and night is scary> I will see if a few cooler nights will lower the temp more than 1 degree, but so far it's been so hot, the air conditioning has been running for the last week or so again. BTW my 125 within hours it seems of putting the air on drops its' PH (or it refuses to rise)  <heehee... yep, the subject of much debate every summer. Pressurization in the house and lingering CO2> I just read the PH in my 125 reef and it is 7.9 at this time of day. With the air off and the windows open it would be at 8.3 by now. Pursing a window open doesn't seem to help, I need a full blown air exchange for almost a day before it returns to normal. <wow... bummer> Oh yes I did have a question, ...My Coris Gaimard disappears for three to four days about once per 6 weeks or so.  <yep... I've seen him in Vegas playing Poker. You should see him, he's quite good> This is the second time this has happened...he is just gone. Just when I think he is dead, out he comes and is swimming with the other fish...and looking at me for food. Is this normal for them to (I assume) bury them selves and reappear a few days later? <Yep... very wrasse-like> Thanks Larry <best regards, Anthony>

Koran Angel Hi WWM crew, <<And hello to you.>> Recently I purchased a Koran angel which is about 8 inches. I have quarantine the fish for 2 weeks with frequent freshwater+ Methylene blue dips .It looks in good health and seems to be swimming around fine. <<Good stuff.>> But it doesn't seem to be eating the food pellets which I feed it. <<Time to try some other foods.>> Also, I have introduced the fish to the main tank and almost immediately it started chasing a 6 inch Naso tang and subsequently other fish. Luckily there is enough live rock to provide cover for the other fishes. <<Luckily...>> I had a smaller Koran before about 4.5 inches and it seems very calm and just grazed around the live rock looking for food. But the current Koran doesn't seems to exhibit this behavior. <<Well... such a large fish [read as older] would be well-set in its ways.>> What can be done about its appetite and do you think it will stop chasing the other fish once it has settled down? <<Try any/everything you can get your hands on, perhaps try to tempt it with live brine and once it is eating, switch to other foods. As for the end of the chasing, is very hard to predict, but I would say no, it won't settle down, or at least not very much - large angels need to be the boss.>> Regards, / ragu <<Cheers, J -- >>

Re: Koran Angel Hi there, <Good morning!> Since the last email, the Koran Angel seems to have somewhat adapted to the environment. It seems to be swimming calmly, started grazing the live rock & doesn't chase tank mates as much as did when introduced. <Good> The problem is it is still not eating. <Bad> I have tried spinach and live tiny shrimps, but to no avail. <I would try some other foods. Please search www.WetWebMedia.com for additional foods.> It hasn't eaten for almost 3 weeks now. <I would try anything and everything at this point to attempt to get it to feed.> I am just wondering if it is hungry it should eat something, if it doesn't like the food it should at least take it in and spit it out. <Not necessarily. It may not recognize the foods offered or the method of offering as food.> What do you think? Something wrong with the fish? / ragu <Good luck to you! -Steven Pro>

Angelfish Help <<Hi.>> Hi, I'll make this as brief as I can. I've been keeping saltwater for 4 years now. Right now my 1000 gallon has been running for 2 years. The water is great. There's about 700 lbs of live rock, not much life to the rock except a very large Heteractis crispa. It's home to 5 Latezonatus Clowns. For the past two years the fish stock has been the 5 clowns, a juv. Koran Angel bout 5 inch, a 6 in Blue Lined Angel, a 5 in Griffis, a 5 in Scribbled and an 8 in Conspiculatus. 3 Months ago I added 19 Fathead Anthias, all of which have lived. They mostly hide out in a cave in the center of the tank except at feeding times. <<According to Bob, this is pretty normal as these Anthias tend to live under rocks and overhangs in the wild.>> My Koran has been about half changed to adult for about a year now since I got it. How long does the change take? <<Hmm, very good question - I think within a year, but have read several accounts of this process being arrested in captive Korans. Not sure there is any hard science as to why this happens.>> From my pictures it doesn't seem to be changing at all. <<I'm sure with a system of this size and age, that I won't need to go on a long dissertation on nutrition, but what little I've seen about this problem is often anecdotally tied to nutrition; something you might want to consider.>> Also, anytime a fish ventures to the far left of the tank they basically get ravaged by the clowns. Is there anyway to stop this? <<No, they do this in the wild too... "Get away from my anemone.">> My Griffis tail has become a bit raggedy as a result. I'm thinking of putting a divider in until I find a home for the clowns. Any other suggestions? <<No, you have the best solution for that one ;-) >> Thanks <<You are welcome. Cheers, J -- >>

Marine Fish Questions Dear Bob: Thank you so much for answering my questions - I do greatly appreciate it. <You're welcome> I am having some trouble. My tank used to have a 9 inch clown trigger who beat up my 8 inch Koran Angel for awhile - I realized the combo was not going to work, so I finally got rid of the clown trigger. The Koran got nipped up a bit and I thought he had a bacterial infection. I have read your section on parasites, but I am still confused about what I might be up against. If you would can you see the link: http://www.ringing.com/sickangel.jpg <I see... an abraded area behind the Koran's right pectoral, cloudy eye.> He started the rubbing and scratching against the bottom of the tank, his eyes are cloudy and swollen, and now this patch on each side (looks somewhat bloody inside). Any info would be appreciated. <Likely just the/a continuing action from the Trigger abuse. I would not specifically treat the system, move this specimen. Do augment its foods (HUFA's, Vitamins) and do your usual best to keep water quality optimized and stable> Also, will this pass to my leopard shark? Yellow Tang? Or Green Moray Eel? <Not likely, but the presence of the Shark, its movements and wastes are likely a contributing cause as well. Bob Fenner> Alex

Koran -what is it? Hi Bob, I have a quick question, I have one fish only in a new (one month) old 90g tank seeded with 15 lbs of gravel from a 5 year old reef tank. It has 50-60 lbs live rock and 50 lbs reef rock that was in the reef tanks sump 1/2 for a week and 1/2 for three weeks. Water parameters all within spec. My only fish a Koran Angel has been in for about two weeks after two week quarantine. He eats well, everything looks fine except for some "stuff" on him that I will call brown algae or slim/velvet. (I hate to use the "V" word) This may be normal coloration except I'm sure it wasn't there in the quarantine tank. It is not getting worse but I want your opinion on if I need to take any action.  <Mmm, no... not as in a chemical/medication treatment. I have seen similar "transition" coloring/markings in small specimens... these almost invariably "cycle out" with time/growth. Do your usual best to care for this animal... good water quality, varied feeding... and this will work itself out> I have enclosed a picture, you can see the brown interrupts one of the blue lines just above the fin. Any ideas? Thanks Larry. BTW this site/email has been very quick and responsive to my questions...you are excellent, I would pay for this service! <Thank you my friend. Your success, involvement is what we desire. Bob Fenner>

Adult Koran angel Fish hello WetWebMedia crew!  <Hola! my friend. Anthony Calfo in your service> my adult Koran angel fish does not like to eat anything other than flake food? I've tried everything.......etc. he just like's flake food's? He's very healthy and alert, and just gobbles up the flake's! just wondering what your feedback would be. Thanks in advance, your fish friend in Salinas, California. Carlos! <Carlos... your angel will need to eat a great variety of food if he is to survive long in captivity. Assuming you have tried frozen Angel formula and other frozen meaty foods, do consider adding live rock with some plants on it for him to graze with the hopes of weaning him onto new foods. Then bring some seaweed (Nori) and frozen foods back into the picture. Kind regards, Anthony>

Angel Questions Hello again, <Cheers, Anthony Calfo in your service> Went to my fish store today looking for a Koran angel and was informed that the juveniles of this and other "changing" species don't change into their adult coloration in captivity. Is this true?  <not true at all... they do change> I've done a lot of looking around on these fish and had never heard that before. They said if you buy one in its juv. coloration it pretty much stays that way. <they are very mistaken> Also, I am following your advice on being able to place a Koran in a 90 fish only tank. I would like to know if it is possible to instead place a small (4") Queen angel in a tank that size in its place. I saw some in the store and find them hard to resist. The store owner said it would not be a problem at all, but thought I would again seek your guidance. Thanks again for your help. Tim <a 90 gallon is hardly a palace for an adult queen or Koran, but admittedly it will work for quite a while. They are great and hardy fishes. best regards, Anthony>

Adult Koran angel phish Hi, Dr. Robert Fenner, <You got Steven pro this morning taking his turn answering questions as part of the WWM crew.> i have a quick question, i have an adult Koran angel phish. my question is that he only wants to eat formula flake food? is this ok long term? i tried frozen formula, he doesn't want it? he's constantly grazing all day on whatever's at the bottom of my phish tank. i have a 240 gallon FO tank with fake corals, a banana wrasse and a lookdown. i also put a clip of romaine lettuce in the tank and he seems to pick at it deviously. I'm just hoping that you will tell me he will be ok on just flake food! please respond soon. thanks in advance, Carlos! <Carlos, no one food makes a complete and well rounded diet no matter how good that food may be. Try Ocean Nutrition Formula I, Formula II, Angel Formula, frozen Mysis shrimp and bloodworms. Surely, he will find something else your fish will eat. You can also try soaking his foods in Boyd's Vita-Chem and Selcon and added nutritional value. -Steven Pro>

Koran Angel Bob, Thank you so much for answering all the questions that come your way. You are a valuable resource to the hobby. I have read your CMA book (many times) and browsed the site (many times).  <Mmm, maybe more than me> My question is regarding a new 2.5" Koran angel that I added to my 40gal tank <You know this tank is too small, and is becoming smaller...> about one week ago. He spent two weeks in quarantine following a dip with Methylene blue, problem free. He has been eating and socializing well with his other tankmates, which consist of a 3" Bennetti puffer, 1" percula, 3" yellow tang, 3" cowfish, cleaner shrimp (not bothered at all by puffer - weird).  <It will be consumed in time> Tank parameters are all ideal, nitrates are at 20, nitrites and ammonia at 0, pH at 8.2, temp at 80, salinity at 1.023. Have an eclipse hood with a Remora pro skimmer & 25lbs. of live rock. The tank has been up and running for about 9 months. Just this afternoon, I noticed four or five spots about the size of a pencil eraser or smaller on the side of the angel that are pale, like they have been erased a little. I am a bit concerned because I had a majestic that started off with this problem after several days in quarantine. It progressed and looked as if the scales were sticking out of the fish instead of laying flat, no eating, hiding, and death. I know now that this fish was not a great choice, and an now trying my luck with the Koran. My guess is that water quality may need to be improved (I change 5 gal every two weeks now), vitamins added to food, and time. Is this OK or am I way off target? <Other than the small size of the system, no real worries... The markings are not unusual for this species... more of a "mood" thing than absolute health> Any input is greatly appreciated as I love the large angels, but am becoming discouraged quickly. <Come on a dive trip with us... And/or get a much larger system... Bob Fenner>

Koran angels Greetings again Robert, I'll cut to the chase, i can't keep Korans for toffee, I've bought three young adults in the last two years all healthy and feeding when purchased but all dying in less than six weeks . <Time to look for a new source... or your system for something wrong. Pomacanthus semicirculatus is one of the toughest angel species> I've noticed they do seem susceptible to a cylindrical eye and body parasite that is only killed by a fresh water bath but then so are most of the Angels i keep' I currently own, Queen, Blue Queen, French ,Black, Blueface, Majestic, Six-Bar, Chrysurus, Asfur, Passer, Maculosus and Cortez Angels and apart from the two Cortez's and one of the Six-Bars I've owned them all for six months and more ,in fact some for nearly three years so why can't i keep Korans ? <Look into buying them from Marine Center... someplace else than where you've been getting them> could it be that it is one of the industry standards like Powder Blues that despite being common in the hobby really do not do that well or knowing that they are hardy am i subconsciously not keeping them as well as i should ,anyway i hope you could shed some light on my plight...Thanks Graham.H <Read and heed: http://wetwebmedia.com/korana.htm Bob Fenner>

Koran Angel Hello Bob, First I would like to thank you for putting up this great site, it has helped me so much. My question is that I noticed that one of the gill spine on my Koran is missing, Will the gill spine grow back? I think that the missing spine was caused by rough netting. Thanks again Peter >> <Thank you for your encouraging words, and allow me to reciprocate: It is likely that the opercular spine of your Koran will indeed grow back... and you are correct (at least we're in agreement) that this defensive mechanism is often broken, damaged by handling. Bob Fenner>

Compatibility Question Hey Bob, I put my Koran Angel, (2 inches) in the 55. It's the 1st time its in there. And there are 2 Percs in the tank. The Koran Angel is "herding" the Percs into the corner. I don't know what to do. I still have a yellow tang waiting to come in. Should I just put the tang in so it controls the Koran? Please help, however, the Koran doesn't really fight the Percs just scares it. Its weird i had a flame angel that was about 3-4 inches and it was having troubles w/ my perc too, but not like this. The Percs don't' even put up a fight. I think when I put my yellow tang in, it might help. What do you think, and what do you think i should do? THANKS. >> I would leave these fishes together at this point IF there is no apparent damage being inflicted on the clowns... and would add the other fishes and some live rock. Ultimately you will need a much larger system for these. Bob Fenner

Hello, first of all thanks for the help. I have another question. My Koran Angel doesn't seem to be getting better, maybe it is, maybe its not. Its in a treatment w/ copper since it has ich. It also has another ectoparasite like bumps. what could it be. thanks. >> Either a type of external parasitic/infectious agent, its effects/response by your Angel, or possibly just a reaction of the fish to something disagreeable in your water. You might consider scraping a bit of this material off and looking through a simple microscope... the QVX Intel/Mattel unit that hooks up to your PC works great for this and is cheap... 100X should do... To reveal whether there is a critter involved or no... And in any case, do check what you can re your water quality... and do the default water change/gravel vacuuming, cleaning your skimmer, adding a unit of activated carbon in the filter flow path... To see if this has a discernible effect. If the specimen is eating otherwise, perhaps time just has to go by.... Lastly, if the copper treatment has run its/a two week course, do discontinue it... this may be harming the animal more than helping as well. Bob Fenner

Hi Hi bob, I haven't emailed you in a while. Hope all is well. Hope you have a good holiday. I went on the wetwebmedia site (love the improvements/additions). I might be wrong but I think that the middle juv. angel on the Koran angel page is actually a juv. emperor angel. I might be wrong but it does have a circular white patch.  I have so far encountered no real problems with my tank and I thank you once again for recommending the maculosus angel. Its grown a full inch and its gorgeous! - Yaron >> Ah, thank you for the heads up Yaron. Yes to your correct i.d. Have changed the images at your urging. Be chatting my friend, Bob Fenner

Three weeks ago we purchased a Koran angel from a chain pet store, and noticed  that this gorgeous fish was in a 20 gallon tank with four other fish, so we wanted to save it from these horrible conditions. The Koran's juvenile colors were dull, and we assumed that maybe he was beginning to change to his adult colors. But after two days in our tank (65 gallon), his colors became vibrant and he was eating very well. For the past couple of days, the Koran has stopped eating, his colors have become dull once again, he has developed some corrosion around his fins, and his eyes are so glazed they look white. All the levels in the tank seem to be normal, we did just add a sea anemone and two clownfish, but all of them seemed to be coexisting fine. We do not want to lose the Koran, so if you could provide us with any solutions or ideas to what is ailing him it would be appreciated! We do have two invertebrates in the tank, but they can be moved to another tank if necessary (The Koran cannot be moved because of his size in proportion to the other tank). Please respond immediately, we don't want to lose him. >> Unusual... and maybe related to the presence of the anemone... but, if it were me, and especially if I had no other place to move the animal I would leave the Koran in the tank it is now and hope for the best... this species (Pomacanthus semicirculatus) often does seemingly miraculous turn-arounds... Subdue the lighting for the next few days, add a biological cleaner organism if you can (my fave, a Lysmata amboinensis Shrimp) and try to be patient. Bob Fenner, who's article on this favorite Indo-Pacific Angelfish can be found archived at the URL: www.wetwebmedia.com

Koran Angel Hi,  I recently had written to you about the Koran angelfish. I finally bought one that was in prime condition. (He's a changeling, he has a yellow strip on him now.) The problem is his right eye has clouded up a bit and his left one is normal. What's going on? The water is good and he's eating really well. (I feed him 6 small servings a day, each serving is finished in under 2 minutes). What could be wrong???  Any insights would be GREATLY appreciated. Thanks. David. >> If it's only the one eye, the cause of the cloudiness is likely some sort of mechanical injury... like a brush with a rough net when the fish was moved... And it will self-cure... That is, you need only do your best to optimize and stabilize the animal's environment. If the cloudiness were on both sides, there might well be a real issue of poor water quality or infection... Be patient, the opacity may take a few weeks to heal completely. Bob Fenner

Koran Angel thanks, Now that you mention mechanical injury, I think he might have bumped really hard into a rock when I turned on the lights when I thought I heard a mantis shrimp in my tank. Thanks for the reassurance. David. >> Ah, I suspected as much... take it easy always on the sudden lighting issue... turn the "house lights" on and wait a good ten minutes before turning on any/some of the tank ones... a big deal, yes.  Bob Fenner, glad to render reassurance.

Koran Angel Now there is a bigger problem, His eye is swollen now too, and looks as though it may explode. You can't see it's pupil anymore. All you can see is he out side of the eye and looks damaged. David. >> And a tough call... if the eye is totally damaged to the point of loss... this may happen... if it is intermediate... it may warrant a swab of antiseptic (much the same as humans)... if it is only slightly damaged (not possible to assess at this point), it isn't worth the further trauma of netting, handling the animal... The long and short of the situation: I would wait a few days to see what transpires (not surprisingly Latin for "looking through" or across) Bob Fenner

Koran Angel Umm, have you seen a condition where the eye looks as though it's swelling out of the socket? It's taking the eye cover with it. So it may be grim right? Thanks for all our advice. David. >> Not necessarily... hang in there... the eyes of fishes like ourselves are highly vascularized... lots of blood vessels... and subject to similar edema/swelling with physical trauma.... give the animal time. Bob Fenner

Koran Angel This is David again, Recent developments in my fish are: Both eyes are now cloudy, I suspect that he is really skittish and might have bumped into another rock. His eyes haven't exploded yet. There is skin like material coming of his eyes. (I'm suspecting a type of fungus.) Any ideas? David. >> Hmm, well, I would at least consider moving the distressed animal to a quarantine/hospital tank... if you have one... and keep the lights low... If the problem continues to progress/worsen... I would further consider applying an antiseptic to the fish's eyes (with a "q-tip")... and if it looks even worse... and persistent, consider mixing in antibiotics into its foods... the eye discoloration is not fungal... maybe bacterial...  Bob Fenner

Koran Angle I have a Koran Angle it is about 11/2 in size. I have had it for over 1 year it has started to lose its color on its face how should I treat it >> Really? A Koran (Pomacanthus semicirculatus) that you've had for more than a year... and it's only one and a half inch long?... The color loss is due to either poor water quality, or more likely in your case, to a lack of nutrition... Make sure the fish is getting its share of food, twice daily... and soak/treat the food with a commercial vitamin/iodine prep....  Bob Fenner

Koran angelfish I'm really interested in purchasing a Koran angelfish, Pomacanthus semicirculatus. I've been doing my reading on the angelfish and realize that they get really large and require a large tank with good water conditions. They are grazers in the wild and eat corals and sponges too. I'm willing to provide it with seaweed for it to graze on, and have some live Caulerpa for it to feed on. I will also provide sponge in it's diet.  When doing my reading I learned that they are probably one of the least difficult of all full sized angels. I would like a Imperator (Pomacanthus imperator), but I've read that they are very sensitive to water conditions. Now I must admit at times I don't do my regular water changes. I've never had nitrates above 25 ppm. I don't think i would have a problem taking care of a Koran angelfish. Now my questions are:  1. Are there any insights that you have on this fish as to care or special requirements? 2. I've read that it's rare to see this animal's adult coloration in it's adult stage, why? Should I be worried? Is there anything I could do to get it to change or aid it in changing? I actually like it's adult coloring.  3. I've also heard that these fish are susceptible to HITH and HLLE, other then nutrition how to I prevent it? Does grounding work? How do I ground a tank then? Thanks for your help.  David.  >> The Koran is one of my favorite large marine angelfish species (too)... 1) The Koran has no real special care requirements... you have listed some of the general caveats... varied, veggie-containing diet, good water quality...  2) I think the lack of adults, coloration and otherwise is a matter of economics and mistakes. The dollar part of the equation has to do with people importing juveniles (freight is much less), and the mistake part refers to aquarists bumping them off before they reach adult/color proportions. 3) The semicirculatus angel is susceptible to HLLE more than most fishes... the best approach is twin-pronged: optimized nutrition (even supplementing the foods with vitamin and iodine prep.s), and consistent/high water quality... I discount the "stray electrical potential" hypothesis. Bob Fenner, who has a piece that never ran in the hobby mag.s on the species posted at www.wetwebmedia.com and will put up the images there if there is a call for same.

Question: I have a 55 gallon reef tank with several Brain corals, Torch, Galaxy, Xenia, mushrooms, Bubble coral and sponge. The Koran angle fish is about 1" long. Is it safe to put it in my reef tank? I currently have it in my 20 gallon tank. Is there something I can do, If I decide to put it in the reef? Bob's Answer: One inch? You can try it and see as the Angel grows to a few inches whether it is bothering your corals too much. Keep looking for a bigger tank...

Angelfishes for  Marine Aquariums
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