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Pond building, liner ap.
7/9/08
Hi hope you can answer my question
I have a sunken garden pond 11'x6'x3' which is home to around 12 fish including
4 showas and 2 19"+ orf's.
The thing is i want to build a raised pond standing on a hard standing patio i
have which measures 23'x18'x10", half of which is taken by my decking.
The pond i want to construct a pond 11'x6'x3.5' with a liner, would this hold on
the concrete.
thank you
<Mmm, better to best to "finish" the shell... a monolithic cast of concrete? Or
block... and "trap" the well laid in liner in a cap of some devising... can be
formal... or mortared rock of some sort. I would NOT try to stick/adhere the
liner to a structural wall, base... Best to use liner type, thickness as per:
http://wetwebmedia.com/PondSubWebIndex/Pond%20Sub%20Web.htm
the second tray... "Liners..."
fitting through puts (drains, returns...) loosely with some liner around them
for movement... Bob Fenner>
Sealing toxic effects of
hydraulic cement 10/19/07
Robert,
<Dana>
I read with zest (and hope) your articles, FAQs, and related links regarding
leaky ponds, but I could not find a solution to solve my dilemma. You're
probably going to laugh hysterically when you read about my problem but here
goes...
We have a very old and small (<500-gal.) above-ground fish pond. Three large
goldfish and one river perch have called it home for years. It's base
construction is river rock, concrete, and a thin coating of gunite (leftover
from an in-ground swimming pool installation). We used to run a 3/4 hp pump for
circulation but over the last few years the pond lost so much water daily that
we no longer had to aerate the water.
<... for 500 gallons? I'd very seriously look into more/modern pumping here...
Will save you a bundle in electrical cost>
We let a garden hose trickle into the pond to replenish the water. [Are you
smiling yet?] Anyway, we were recently given a large supply of left-over
building materials, including about 80 lbs of Quikrete Hydraulic Cement. Sooo,
you guessed it, we lined the entire pond with hydraulic cement. Yes, you read
correctly, the entire pond was meticulously hand-lined with concrete plugging
material. [Are you laughing aloud?] It should be waterproof, yes?
<Hopefully... if the basin itself is not "moving", badly cracked...>
My dilemma is this... we want to neutralize any toxic effects of the hydraulic
cement by applying a safe non-toxic top coat or paint. Therefore, please
recommend a suitable Thoro product. Do you think their waterproofing paint would
be safe for the fish and sufficiently block any toxic effects from the hydraulic
cement? Please advise.
<Mmm, their Thoroseal should do it... You can color this if you want... with an
oxide/coloring agent... available most everywhere. Though will be about what
it's going to be in time with algal growth>
Many thanks for your invaluable information.
Dana
<Welcome. Bob Fenner>
Concrete pond specification
6/25/07
Dear Sir, I am about to undertake a pond project.. If I can give you a bit
of background to the situation you could possibly advise if this project would
be viable and assist with the technical specification to make this possible..
Having recently purchased a building plot we uncovered a former bomb shelter
under what we thought was a mound of earth.. Now with house complete and ground
works underway we are about to embark on the pond..
What we have done is take the top of the shelter with all debris pushed inside
to create a base. What we have now is a structure 4.9mts x 2.4mts with an
undetermined depth..(4brick thick at ends 2bricks thick at sides) My thoughts
were to form base with 150mmsub base DPM and 100mm concrete to finish , line
internally with concrete block, render and tank internally..
My uncertainty surrounds what materials to use with regard to waterproofing/
what size pump/filtration etc.. finished article would be approx 4.6mts length x
2.0mts wide x 0.75mts deep.. Any advice in this regard would be gratefully
appreciated.. Dave Greenland
<Mmm, well... there are a range of ionic-sold/non-elastic coatings one might use
(cement "plasters" for instance) which are fine for "original grade", solid
foundation applications... for vertical-sided, formal ponds... Some more elastic
(e.g. chlorinated rubber based) materials... but I do encourage you to consider
(moving all the way ahead to unreliable settings where the base may indeed move)
to use a liner here... Please read:
http://www.wetwebmedia.com/PondSubWebIndex/Pond%20Sub%20Web.htm
the pieces in the tray under "Construction" re Liner Use. Bob Fenner>
Chemical impact from gunite 12/1/06
We are having a pool built, the plumbing and gunite are complete and the
decking has been formed. We recently discovered or uncovered the dirt around
the pool plumbing and noticed that gunite has been mixed in with the dirt and is
resting on and near the PVC pool plumbing. During this discovery someone told
us that gunite has a chemical that will eventually get into the PVC plumbing,
contaminate the water and potential erode the PVC pipes.
<Mmm... this is news to me... look up gunite on the Net... is basically a very
dry mortar of sorts... a concrete without aggregate and just enough water
added/entrained to allow it to be "worked", accelerated to "stick"... is
alkaline but not that corrosive...>
Can this be true? I am concerned for my health and also for the potential
damage to our decking surrounding the pool.
<I would not be concerned here... As long as the gunite underwater itself is
"cement plaster coated" (to make it smooth and water-proof) there is no need to
worry. Bob Fenner>
Cementacious construction inside biological ponds 9/7/05
Robert, Have sandy soil for my pond, have question about using mortar and
flagstone on inside to make walls. Can the mortar be toxic to fish.
<Is to a varying extent, depending on make-up>
I have heard of a plastic cement but can't find any info .
Bill Oglesby
<Use of plastic cement/s is advised. Are less caustic, toxic... still better to
lower level of the basin/s while doing, curing this work. Bob Fenner>
New pond, owner 8/21/05
Dear "Crew":
<Jarvis>
I just finished building a 220 gallon pond in my back yard, and
is wanting to add koi ASAP, I'm not sure what to do though.
should I add any baking soda or salt?
if yes, how much should I add?
<... what for? I would test the water quality, at least pH, alkalinity and maybe
add an inorganic acid to the water, or "wash" the sides down with a dilution of
this... if the basins are new, cementacious... alkaline. Please read here:
http://www.wetwebmedia.com/PondSubWebIndex/conclnrconstpd.htm
and:
http://www.wetwebmedia.com/PondSubWebIndex/acidblchpds.htm>
should i but any water testing kits?
<Yes, I would. :
http://www.wetwebmedia.com/PondSubWebIndex/tstkitspds.htm
and the linked files above... Bob
Fenner>>
thanks: Jarvis
Pond construction... mainly 6/31/05
Just recently we added a cement pond to our back yard. And before putting
water into the pond I need to know what measure should be taken to prevent
leakage.
<...?>
A few question I have is how long should I allow the cement to cure
before cleaning it with a solution? And what type of solution should I use?
Thanks for your help!
Diamondmind
<The basin/s shouldn't leak if they've been constructed properly... some folks
seal concrete with a coating that aids in protecting the material and rendering
it less likely to affect water chemistry. Most installers use an acid wash to
reduce alkalinity... some people just utilize vinegar here, but professionals
often dilute Muriatic (3M HCl) and brush this on, rinse, pump out... These
issues are covered on WWM:
http://www.wetwebmedia.com/PondSubWebIndex/Pond%20Sub%20Web.htm
You might avoid a good number of future issues by studying now... Bob Fenner>
Pond Construction Sat, 2 Apr 2005
Greeting,
I have been reading several of your excellent articles on the web.
I am looking for specifications for a pond with a concrete (or gunite) topping
over a liner.
<Specifications? Your installer (I strongly suggest "going Union" here) will
know what these are... depending on depth, slope... if you're going to "plaster
coat" the gunite (I would with something)...>
I also need an installer for a client in the Palm Springs (Indian Wells)
area of Southern California.
<Mmm, I'd consult the "Yellow Pages" under "Swimming Pool Construction"... get
at least three bids, talk with whoever they give you references for their recent
work>
I would appreciate any direction or references that you might have.
<Unfortunately it's been many years since doing actual jobs in your area... but
there are likely still a few excellent companies out your way... There are MANY
pools and water features out that way as you no doubt are aware. Bob Fenner>
Rick English English Pool Consulting
Waterfalls and mortar
Bob,
I am building a waterfall for my fish pond and would like to use mortar to
set my rocks onto the liner so the water will go over the rocks instead of
under them. I am concerned about the mortar leaching out into the pond. Is
there anything I can do to the mortar to prevent this? I've tried
the black biofalls foam and found it very difficult to work with.
Thanks,
Gail
<Yes. Make sure and use "plastic cement" in your mortar mix... much less
alkaline than "plain" Portland cements... Mortars are just cement, sharp
sand, water and possibly a coloring agent... and easier on your skin in
working with it as well. Bob Fenner>
Pool slide
I have just shotcreted my pool and in ground slide. Do I need to
browncoat the unleveled areas and rough spots before Thorosealing the slide or
will Thoroseal fill in all these voids?
<Not unless the current surface is very rough>
Will Thoroseal provide me a smooth
sliding surface;
<Not enough to likely suit you>
if so, how do I achieve this. Do I trowel it on or use a
paint roller or brush? That you for your response.
<Look into smooth mortar "plaster coating"... can be done by
oneself... but if this job is very big (like a swimming pool), better to have
professional "pool plasterers" trowel it out. Bob Fenner>
Acid wash acid for ponds
Hi I just read your article on Thoroseal I just used it to reline my koi
pond
you mentioned a light acid wash before introducing live stock What product
can i buy to do that. Thank-you for your time Danny Fitzgerald
<Hydrochloric, as three molar concentrations sold as Muriatic Acid is your
best bet here. Sold in swimming pool supply shops, concrete et al. businesses.
Please read here re doing such acid washes: http://www.wetwebmedia.com/PondSubWebIndex/acidblchpds.htm
and follow carefully the cautionary remarks. Bob Fenner>
building concrete pond???
Robert,
<Jim>
I am constructing a pond with the inside dimensions of 6 x 10 by 3 deep.
I am planning 6" wall and floor thickness. It will have a 3" bottom
drain line and a set in concrete wall skimmer, like a pool.
<Do make the "casting" around this skimmer assembly a good six inches thick all the way around as well>
The walls
(sides) are vertical 90°. I have a few questions and am hoping your
experience will shed some light on them.
<I'll try>
1. I am using a 6-1/2 bag mix with ipanex admix for waterproofing and
will plaster the inside with black plaster, is a liner still needed.?
<Not needed... but good/worthwhile insurance... especially in areas where the ground moves (earthquakes, freezing...)>
2. I am tying rebar and will hang the inside wall forms as one 4 sided
piece (suspended 6" above the floor.
<Make this 3" on your stand-offs... cast in about the middle>
Can I pour this all at once,
floor first then walls....or will it try to seek it's own level. also do
I need a vibrator wand for the walls (trapped air).?
<Best to pour all at once... the floor first... how are you forming up the walls? If they are vertical... are they being molded somehow?>
3. If the slump is low enough can I just pump the walls starting at the
bottom and building then vertical. or will it all sink without a form.
?? I hope this will work.
<Not exactly... even with an absolute lowest slump the mix will compact, compress>
3. Don't I need a hydro-static valve in the bottom drain to protect
against the pond raising out of ground when emptied for
maintenance.?????
<Yes! Or other provision...>
I would love to use gunite except the job is too small.
<Mmm, not necessarily too small... Have you checked with the pool sub's in your area? Do take a read through the "Pond Index": http://www.wetwebmedia.com/PondSubWebIndex/Pond%20Sub%20Web.htm re construction methods on our sites before actually initiating construction. I encourage you to go with an underlying liner, and for us to chat re the forming of the walls, bottom of the system. If your design calls for vertical walls, either reconcile yourself to making them of block or forming them with plywood and snap-offs... Let's keep chatting if I'm not being clear. Bob Fenner>
thanks
Jim brown
Re: building concrete pond???
bob,
thanks for the assist. a ready mix co. quoted $370 for the concrete and
$170-$200 for the pump...
<Mmm, about right>
check this ! today got 2 replies from gunite guys,
one at $1,600 and one at $1,900. think I will stick to working out the pour
version.
<... the difference isn't as much as you might think here... the pour option includes having to hand-pack, move around... even with the pumper, about seven yards of concrete... at about 2 1/2 tons a yard... yes, about 35,000 pounds of material... so, you'll need a few friends, for a few hours... the gunite folks will probably finish the shooting, leaving you with only cement plaster coating to do... something (my back's starting to ache) to think about>
I think your right about the liner. I will sketch my idea of the
form for the pour and .PDF it to you early next week. got a lot of rebar to
do this weekend.
<Real good... the progress will be well worth it... and give you a much better idea of what you're up against. Bob Fenner>
have a good one.
Jim
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