Staining a new gunite pond   10/9/08
Dear Crew,
<Dana>
I looked through your excellent site but couldn't find a reference on how to stain a new gunite pond easily or inexpensively.
<Mmm... this is almost always done by applying a "cement/plaster coat" that is colored itself... over the Gunite shell... there are "jobs" where the gunite itself is pretty much waterproof... but not always. I have seen rebar rust through... over time, and this is very difficult to mask over after... Applying one of various "pool paints" (epoxies, "rubber", et al.) can be very expensive, not very wearing/lasting... and cementaceous materials (e.g. Thoroseal et al.) may also not be long-term successful...>
My husband estimates its size at 10,000 sq. ft.
<Good-sized>
They installed a liner and pad,
<Ah, good>
did the reinforcing and sprayed on the gunite, and it looks great except it's very light and bright and needs help to blend into the red and brown dirt we have around here, especially when the level goes down, as it does every summer.
<Mmmm...>
Before the pond was "improved", the yerba buena would bloom around the edges as it dried out, and it wouldn't look so bad.
<I see>
We need an inexpensive option, if there is one, as the pond has come in way over budget. Can we use black mason's stain or iron sulfate?
<You could... along with "biological staining" this might well "do it">
I read that the iron sulfate is cheap.
<Can be, yes>
We do plan to put some fish in the pond but no plants as our consultant says they will cause leaks.
<?... what sort of plants? None should be able to penetrate the Gunite>
We built the pond for late season landscape watering, as we have no rain for 90-120 days most summers, and the well and cistern can't do it all. So the water level will go down as we pump it out in late summer, and it would look so much better if it wasn't just pale gray. It's fairly steep, as well.
<Do take care that this area is safe... fenced to prevent children, stray animals from drowning>
The water will be used for swimming and to water plants, so water quality is somewhat important.
<... I would like to know a bit more re the filtration to be applied here... Usually there is an either/or choice to be made whether such bodies of water will be ornamental OR swimming "holes"... there are some health issues...>
We mostly need to stain the top portion that shows all the time, so we don't have to do the whole thing.
<Understood>
I'm hoping you have an easy answer, as this will be DIY. Also, does the surface have to be sealed after staining?
<Mmm, not likely. Depending on the method used ("cement plaster coating", staining, painting/coating...)
Another big expense we'd like to avoid, obviously, but not if the stain comes right off. We have to do it before the rains start and the pond fills up, which is pretty soon, here in the Northwest. Could you mention suppliers for the stain, also, if you come up with some ideas? We live in Eugene, OR, and although it's not small, it's not real big either.
Thanks so much for your help.
Sincerely, Dana Hansler
<Well... I REALLY wish I could have suggested applying a colored shotcrete shell (roughly... with small aggregate, maybe 3/8" nominal) over the Gunite along the entire edge (when it was new) and roughly tooling this to make it look more "natural"... this would allow for a better look for sure, and make it easier for life to get in and out (do take care when it is filled... treacherously slippery)... At this juncture, I would go a Thoro product route myself. Bob Fenner>

This n' That... Gunite, waterproofing ponds, surrounds...  7/18/08
I am so glad you guys are there. We had a pond gunited 3 weeks ago, it measures 33' long 22' wide 3+' deep. Around the whole perimeter is a shelf for boulders, rocks, plants, safety shelf.
<Mmmm>
I do not know of another way to seal this other than plaster,
<Does need to be sealed... gunite is NOT water proof>
clear to the top edge, the boulders will set down in the water about 4" on this shelf. What do I seal the top shelf with?
<Likely more "cement plaster" with color/oxide...>
What about clear Herco rubber?
<Not if I were doing it... expensive, not really an appropriate application>
After whatever I uses dries I figured mixing mortar or cement to fill in the back of the shelf,
<Well... I do wish we were starting from "go" here... but as the shell is already shot out... I would cement plaster (or otherwise... see WWM re... Thoro et al. products) seal the entire basin, including the "bench", then place the rocks (I'd use bits, swatches of "old carpet" to set them on... over the plaster... and seal about these in turn... and behind them a bit, to over the real water level of the berm... I do encourage you to get/use a water level... to assure this>
where the void would be, set the boulders that varies 1' to 2' boulders wide on this shelf, mortar in-between the boulders and seal this with the clear Herco?
<Mmm, no... won't work, or last>
I am also wondering how to leach out the lime in the plaster?
<No big deal... easily done over time, or through acid-washing... again see WWM re>
No hurry for fish. I have 3 sequence pumps
<Ahh! Very good products>
pulling water from the 3-3" bottom drains, from the pumps the water is pushed up hill 25 feet away, up 12' to the 3- 15' long 3' wide 2+ feet deep biological filters,
<Nice>
lave rock, white filter media, brushed, returning down the 12 tall water fall. I have u.v.s for this pond, taking into consideration this pond will be in direct sunlight 6 hours a day.
<Do get, record values for pH, alkalinity, perhaps DO and RedOx... and time of day readings were taken>
I am also concerned about the water heating up, I am thinking of the plaster (white) coloring
<? Don't do this... it won't stay white anyway... do mix some color in with this... even something other than sharp sand... e.g. crushed rock... to make stepping into the basin less treacherous... and to promote useful growth of micro-life there>
it with a tint of blue/gray but keeping it on the lighter side.
<Nah... again, won't stay this lighter color for any period of time... choose "something more natural"... a brown or tan perhaps>
I am also concerned about algae bloom. My initial fill of water will be from filtered water, the water running through solar salt, we live in the country our water from the well has a LOT of iron in it, my neighbor is going to fill this from their system, us being concerned about to much draw on the pump in the well.
<Mmm... a bunch to state... but I'd be looking into "bio-amelioration" here... using some, likely floating and "grass" plants to remove a good deal of the ferrous, ongoing available nutrient to the algae, harvesting (removing) this periodically during the sunnier, warmer months>
to keep this pond topped off, I will be using a float valve, the water will be coming from our filtered water system, the water running through solar or potassium first. I do need to get the lime out of this plaster, what do you rec for doing this? (vinegar? how much) sealing the top edge of the pond to set the boulders on and topping the pond off with our systems water? thank you very much Judy
<These and many more important issues are covered in a general sense in articles, FAQs files archived here: http://wetwebmedia.com/PondSubWebIndex/Pond%20Sub%20Web.htm
Learn to/use the search tool (linked on the left shared border) and/or indices. Feel free to write me re specifics. Bob Fenner>

Cheap pond coatings   3/12/08
Mr. Fenner,
I'm looking for a cheap pond coating. I've looked at roof coatings. (asphalt emulsion, acrylic elastomeric, etc) Are these products safe to use in the pond?
<Mmm, yes... all are... once totally cured... therein lies the real issue... Some of these are not easily... totally... cured>
Will they leach chemicals into the water?
<The asphalt-based ones, yes... to degrees... depending on... how "cured", batch, product type...>
What would you suggest? I don't want to go spend lots of money on other coatings if asphalt emulsion will do the job for less than 1/2 the price.
<Mmm, do you need a coating at all? What for? What are your basin/s composed of?>
Is there a paint I could put over the emulsion to avoid leaching?
<None that I know of, no>
Any suggestions would be great.
<Read here: http://wetwebmedia.com/PondSubWebIndex/thoroselart.htm
and the linked files above. Bob Fenner>

Fish safe pond coatings   2/13/08
Hi,
My question is about asphalt emulsion use for a pond (concrete) liner/coating. Is it safe to use? If so, what type do I need? Henry's 107, 201, fibered, nonfibered, any brand, etc? I've heard that some folks have had success with Drylok. Please give me your thoughts on the subject.
Thanks so much.
Simon
<Years back we used a great deal of asphalt emulsion of the Henry's and Marvin's brands... and IF cured thoroughly rarely had troubles. However, nowadays I urge caution re their use... as these products have proven very inconsistent... and am worried re their possible failure and toxicity. Please read here re pond coatings: http://wetwebmedia.com/PondSubWebIndex/thoroselart.htm
and the linked files above. Bob Fenner>

Leaky pool, convert to pond
Mr. Fenner, We have bought a 70 yr. old property that has a rectangular pool (15' x 25') at least that old. It is a concrete pool that was deep enough to have had a high dive and was filled in with additional concrete years ago. It is now leaking about 3 feet down on the sides. It has been painted before with Pool Paint. I am tired of dealing with a pool and would much rather convert it into a pond, very natural and with an Asian look. Can I use a liquid pond liner, rubber paint or some sort of waterproofer?
<Yes>
I have read about Neoprene Paint and DryLok Waterproofing.
<The former is ghastly... the latter much better>
I have also looked into fabric liners. We don't want to simply fill it, just repair it to be water-tight and add some fish. Do you have any suggestions for me? Susan Morris
<I do. Please read here: http://www.wetwebmedia.com/PondSubWebIndex/thoroselart.htm
and the linked files above. Bob Fenner>

Pond wall sealer  12/12/07
Hi:
I have a pond that has been excavated out of coral rock in Homestead, Florida.
<Ahh, will be visiting a friend there in a couple of weeks. He has many such ponds... two cichlid farms...>
This pond is 140' long and 80' wide with two islands inside. As you know the coral rock is not able to contain water and has large holes and cracks.
<Yes>
Is there a substance I can spray on the walls to contain the water inside.
<Mmm... possibly>
I can not spray the bottom of the pond as I am in the water table. So my pond is currently partially full but can not be filled further unless I seal the upper portions of the walls. Most substances are designed to go over concrete. What can I do. I have heard someone mention fiber coating. where can I find this.
<Mmm, not fiber-coating... You could fit, have fitted, a liner here... There are other techniques... even just constantly filling, allowing to percolate... What is it you intend to do with this basin? If it were me/mine, I'd have some contractors (see the phone directory, under "ponds", "landscape") come on out, bid on what they advise might be done here... In the meanwhile, please read here: http://www.wetwebmedia.com/PondSubWebIndex/pdconst.htm
and the linked files above. Bob Fenner>
David

Pool to Pond Conversion, sealing the old plaster   12/5/07
Dear Bob: I have an old pool that came with a house that I just purchased. I am trying to convert it into a fish pond. The pool, as far as I know is solid and does not leak. The plaster is old and I plan to knock off any loose stuff and put a color sealant on the entire surface.
<Do take care here... eye protection, heavy gloves, Levi-type pants... the cement plaster is sharp! And heavy at times>
Unfortunately, I verified with Thoroseal that it requires a concrete surface and cannot be applied to pool plaster.
<Correct>
I am looking for a dark color sealant that I can apply to the current pool plaster, do you have any recommendations? And how long would these sealant last? I am in San Diego and wonder if there is such a product available. Thank you, Theresa
<Mmm... I do have suggestions... but expensive... W/o seeing the state of the current plaster, the work behind it (no re-bar shows through I hope/trust) my carte blanche advice is to have the pool re-plastered... in a color of your choice... but will cost some thousands of dollars... On the extreme other end of the spectrum, I would leave all as it presently is... the algae/overgrowing the present poor plaster will not matter in appearance... In-between, you might look into Thoro's other consumer products like Water Plug... or similar from the fine Dry Lok product line... for partial or total re-coating... Do mix only small batches. DO get some help if doing this yourself... as it is very tiring to apply. And, of course, do feel free to write back if you have concerns, further questions. Bob Fenner>

Sealing toxic effects of hydraulic cement  10/19/07
Robert,
<Dana>
I read with zest (and hope) your articles, FAQs, and related links regarding leaky ponds, but I could not find a solution to solve my dilemma. You're probably going to laugh hysterically when you read about my problem but here goes...
We have a very old and small (<500-gal.) above-ground fish pond. Three large goldfish and one river perch have called it home for years. It's base construction is river rock, concrete, and a thin coating of gunite (leftover from an in-ground swimming pool installation). We used to run a 3/4 hp pump for circulation but over the last few years the pond lost so much water daily that we no longer had to aerate the water.
<... for 500 gallons? I'd very seriously look into more/modern pumping here... Will save you a bundle in electrical cost>
We let a garden hose trickle into the pond to replenish the water. [Are you smiling yet?] Anyway, we were recently given a large supply of left-over building materials, including about 80 lbs of Quikrete Hydraulic Cement. Sooo, you guessed it, we lined the entire pond with hydraulic cement. Yes, you read correctly, the entire pond was meticulously hand-lined with concrete plugging material. [Are you laughing aloud?] It should be waterproof, yes?
<Hopefully... if the basin itself is not "moving", badly cracked...>
My dilemma is this... we want to neutralize any toxic effects of the hydraulic cement by applying a safe non-toxic top coat or paint. Therefore, please recommend a suitable Thoro product. Do you think their waterproofing paint would be safe for the fish and sufficiently block any toxic effects from the hydraulic cement? Please advise.
<Mmm, their Thoroseal should do it... You can color this if you want... with an oxide/coloring agent... available most everywhere. Though will be about what it's going to be in time with algal growth>
Many thanks for your invaluable information.
Dana
<Welcome. Bob Fenner>

Thoroseal - Potable Water Tank Application  9/20/07
Dear Sirs:
In true appreciation of your dedicated help site, I am trying to submit my question as crisp & short as possible.
I hired a local professional contractor to waterproof underground potable water tank (concrete cast-in-situ). The contractor proposed using Thoro products - Waterplug for corners & Thoroseal coating for all walls with a 72 hrs water hold test after completion and application as per product data sheets.
The present stage is that his application is complete and is asking to start the water test and pay his final installment. I asked for the saline wash / scrub mentioned in Thoroseal datasheet for potable tanks / swimming pools / fish tanks. The contractor stated that he has not done this for the last 20 years in business and that Thoro seal is non-toxic and does not require a saline wash.
Please enlighten me because I do not want to insist and hold his payment for something too theoretical but also would not like to get the children living in the house to acquire irritants / diseases.
Thanks & Regards - Anwar
<Hello Anwar! I'm not sure I can answer this question with any degree of certainty. I'm not familiar with the product or the technique. But my recommendation would be this: if the manufacturer says you need a saline wash before the pond is safe for fish, then have the contractor do the saline wash! If you don't, and then have problems, you will regret it forever. Doing the saline wash presumably won't add much time or cost to the thing. It may even be something you can do yourself. Sincerely, Neale>

Re: Thoroseal - Potable Water Tank Application  7/22/07
Respected Neale:
Many thanks for your reply, but you are saying that you are not familiar with the product whereas your Mr. Bob Fenner recommends and describes many Thoroseal applications.
Please can we have a specific answer as i believe that the work should be done by the party responsible and not just that it is low cost / less time so i should do it myself.
High Regards & Waiting - Anwar.
<As I said before, if the manufacturer says you should do the saline wash before using the pond for fish, then do the saline wash. It seems to me a non-question. I have no idea why your supplier says the saline wash is not necessary. It is like having a can of beans that says "Cook thoroughly before eating" on the can, and then asking someone "Should I cook these beans"? I can't speak for Bob Fenner's opinions since I'm not Bob Fenner! He'll read this message before posting it, and if he has comments to the contrary of mine, I'm sure he'll add them. Cheers, Neale.>
<<Heee! I have seen this material used in potable situations... I would lightly acid wash the surface for it to be applied to and apply per directions on the bags. Cheers, Bob Fenner>>

Re: Clear waterproofing for ponds, repairs  11/10/06
Hi Bob, In regards to clear water proofing sealer for ponds, we manufacture exactly that - Pond Shield Clear.  It can be used right on top on non-glazed tile to water proof it.   As I discussed with you before, it's completely non-toxic and fish safe.  For people with glazed tile, it can be applied behind the tile, sanded with 60-grit to give it tooth, and the tile can then be set with Ultraset tile mortar.  We have thousands of clients using Pond Shield epoxy and they all have great success.
<Ahh! Will post your note next to the queriors...>
You may still not be a believer in epoxy coatings, but they do work and every time you answer one of your web site visitors and tell them you do not know of a product that works, you are restricting their knowledge and ability to research the market further.
<As you might pre/as-sume, this is in reality all I can do, having no direct or near direct successful experience here>
  I do not expect you personally to give us some sort of endorsement, but when someone like the visitor whose text is below, specifically asks you, you could at least tell them Pond Shield exists and let them make up their own mind.  To do otherwise is a disservice to the public.
<... please>
B.
<Not to belittle your products, efforts, or be misunderstood here, I'm so feeble of mind/memory re such things that it simply did not occur to me... the vast majority of our input/output here is aquarium-related... not ponds/water features... My "help" is limited to years back work on these projects>
Clear waterproofing... for submersed tile in pond...  - 04/26/06 Hi crew, As always... great website and help. Straight to the point, I have a client with a strange request: Indoor pond with white tile to be kept 99.99 % free of algae (lots of brushing). The major problem is with algae growing in the grout. I have thought of using a clear waterproofing product to provide a smooth surface. Any suggestions will be greatly appreciated. Samuel Toscano
<<Oh! To just ask you for your URL, link/address to send folks to your site for further input. Bob Fenner>
//<I do hope there is something... I would contact tile manufacturer rep.s here first... then the products rep.s they in turn suggest... There used to be nothing that would work well or for long for this application. Two very important notes however... To use the best frost-free tile available for the install period (we used to install Latco/Europa as our first choice here). Secondly to be careful in the EXTREME to not scratch the tile and/or whatever coating you end up applying... as this will greatly expedite algal and mineral accumulation... Bob Fenner, who sees trouble>//

Asphalt Emulsions as Pond Coatings - 10/22/2006
Sorry to bother you with my troubles, but I am a first-time pond builder and am learning by trial-and-error.  I recently built an  above-ground Koi pond by first purchasing a pre-cast EPDM pond liner from Home Depot. Liner is approx. 5 x 9 x 3 ft. kidney shaped.  I then built a stone retaining wall in the shape of the liner, dropped it in and filled the gap with sand.  The liner and the wall were roughly level, so I then laid a thick layer of mortar and placed a cap stone ring around the top so the caps all extended a few inches over the pond ( to give a more natural look).  I was hoping to fill the pond all the way to the cap stone, but after filling it, I found that the mortar leaked profusely and I could only fill the pond to the top of the liner, also the mortar cured almost white and looked terrible atop the black plastic liner. Then, (after a raccoon family attacked and ate all the Koi one night) I had the opportunity to drain the pond and fix the issue.  After a very short and not very thorough research, I decided on roofing cement (tar, essentially) to seal the 3 inch layer of mortar and the crack that had formed between the liner and the mortar.  I allowed it to cure overnight,
<Mmm, not long enough... takes at least a day for the varieties (some lines of Henry's, Marvin's...>
and then filled it and put in another 7 Koi I bought.  The tar worked perfectly for what I had wanted, to water seal the gap and mortar, and provide a nice-looking black finish that blended perfectly with the liner.  The next day, the Koi were all floating, though amazingly not dead, and the surface of the water was coated with an oil slick, all the pond plants have a black oily residue on them and the white marble pebbles on the bottom are black.
<Yes... the emulsion/tar>
In retrospect, I see how universally stupid my actions were, but now I need to fix the issue as quickly and cheaply as possible.  I don't want to rebuild the pond unless there is absolutely no choice, so removing the tar is pretty much out of the question.
<Mmm, actually... I'd drain the pond. let air dry for a week or two... this may do it>
I looked into possible solutions for coating over it with something that would seal in the tar from seeping into the water and still have nice slick black look.
<There is nothing as far as I'm aware>
The other concern is finding something that will also stick to the tar and the EPDM liner.  I was wondering what you thought of marine epoxy paint.  I read that it has been used over roofing tar successfully (apparently roofing tar is used sometimes to seal boat leaks), and it does claim to be non-toxic.  Do you think this is a good idea? If so, what brand would you recommend?
<I do not think this will work... no material will permanently bond, long-term to the emulsion>
If not, is there a product you would recommend?   I am willing to pay the outrageous $120 per gallon (I think I only need 1) if it works, but I can't afford much more trial and error. My main concern is making the pond non-toxic and safe for the fish. Thanks for your trouble,  -Sean Edmondson
Boise, ID.
<I would try air drying the present coating myself... if this is unsatisfactory, another cementacious material/coating may need to be applied and this in turn sealed/painted. Bob Fenner>

Thoroseal Use in Koi Pond   9/30/06
Dear Mr. Fenner:  Thanks for having this info on the Web.  Just a clarification:  Is Thoroseal (and other Thoro products) safe for Koi?
<Yes, once cured>
What are the "curing" procedures?
<For most of their line, including Thoroseal, simply washing down, draining such rinse water... after the requisite (usually a day) period of time has passed... to "set up">
It's just not clear in any of the text I've read.  Thanks in advance for any info you can give.
Sincerely, Rose Marie Reynolds
<Clarity is pleasurable. Thank you for asking/writing. Bob Fenner>

A cmu reflection pond... sealant?  9/21/06
How do I waterproof a cmu
<? Carnegie Mellon University?>
pond with a concrete foundation.  ½” plaster finish?
<Mmm, no>
What product should I use?
<Is this to be a biological system or poisoned in some fashion? Is there a concern with the present material somehow mal-affecting the water?>
  Is there suppose to be a waterproof membrane below the plaster finish?
<I would not install one at this time... this should be installed first if used...>
   Any help would be greatly appreciated.
Thank you very much.
James
<There are a few brands, classes of materials that can be bonded to new/ish cementatious materials to render them waterproof, chemically inert... Please read here: http://www.wetwebmedia.com/PondSubWebIndex/thoroselart.htm
and the linked files above. Bob Fenner>

Clear waterproofing... for submersed tile in pond...  - 04/26/06
Hi crew,
As always... great website and help.
Straight to the point, I have a client with a strange request:
Indoor pond with white tile to be kept 99.99 % free of algae (lots of brushing). The major problem is with algae growing in the grout. I have thought of using a clear waterproofing product to provide a smooth surface.
Any suggestions will be greatly appreciated.
Samuel Toscano
<I do hope there is something... I would contact tile manufacturer rep.s here first... then the products rep.s they in turn suggest... There used to be nothing that would work well or for long for this application. Two very important notes however... To use the best frost-free tile available for the install period (we used to install Latco/Europa as our first choice here). Secondly to be careful in the EXTREME to not scratch the tile and/or whatever coating you end up applying... as this will greatly expedite algal and mineral accumulation... Bob Fenner, who sees trouble>

ACRYL 60 & THOROSEAL    4/4/06
Where can I get these in Orlando, FL?
<Independent "sand and gravel", stucco et al. outlets. Look in your local "Yellow Pages" and call them re. Bob Fenner>

Resealing a concrete pond    2/17/06
Hello Robert,
<Helen>
I have found your site very helpful and interesting. I am repairing a pond that has been sealed with swimming pool paint that still leaches lime.
<... then it is not sealed>
The pH was unreadable (it was so  high). The paint had several bubbles and was peeling.
<Very typical... I don't know that the conditions exist for such paints real application>
I proceeded to drain the pond and scrape as much as of the paint off . I plan to power wash and give it an acid wash before I reseal the
pond. Now I am wondering if Thoroseal will be the product to use if I can get it here in Barbados or if I can use a product called asphaltine
recommended by the manufacturer here.
<Mmm... likely a "tar-based" material (commonly labeled as roofing materials here in the U.S.)... not really good technology... and a mess to try and remove>
I am also looking at another clear sealant.
<These are feeble... don't have enough "body"... almost never work>
If not I may have to import the Thoroseal from Miami if push comes to shove. Any advice??
Many thanks,
Helen Knighton
St. Lucy Barbados
<Either Thoro's product or something equivalent. Ask about at a local "stucco", cementacious product supplier... They will know what can be used. I would go with something like Thoroseal here. Bob Fenner>

Re: Pond sealing   2/23/06
Hello Robert,
<Helen>
I finally found a product here in Barbados SBR bond which I mixed with white Portland cement to seal a concrete pond. I discussed this with the chemist
at the manufacturing plant. I asked him about Thoroseal and he knew about it.
<Yes... such products are "mixed", not made and shipped about long distances...>
He says that with SBR bond and white cement made into a slurry and applied to the damp concrete (keeping it damp is tough in a hot climate like
ours) will work. Well I have applied several coats of it and am wondering if it will really work and if is toxic to fish. The chemist claims not, due to
the low toxicity and once it has cured. Can I give it a saline or vinegar wash to remove any residue before filling the pond after a week of curing?
<Yes, a very good idea>
Many many thanks,
Helen Knighton
<Do test the resulting pH, alkalinity once you're filling the newly coated and washed pond as well. Bob Fenner>

pH of mix water and Thoroseal  11/11/05
Another websites dealing with Thoroseal indicate that it is not to be used to contain water that has a Ph of less than 7.2.  What has been your experience with this recommendation?
<Mmm, don't even recall... if I/we ever met up with this... the water out here in the Southwest U.S. is pretty uniformly hard and alkaline...>
This information is shown on the Rubberoid website which is distributor in Great Britain.  I called Thoroseal in the States, they confirmed this information.
<... then I would likely bolster the pH of mix water... Easy to do with simple sodium bicarbonate (baking soda)... Cheers. Bob Fenner>

Question.. Statement?  Purchase Question 11/2/05
Where can THORO SYSTEM PRODUCTS be purchased in Gloucestershire.
Thank You.
<I'd contact the company directly re: http://www.thoroproducts.com/  Bob Fenner>  
 

Your Thoroseal article and acid wash  9/1/05
Bob,
<Charles>
I enjoyed your article on Thoroseal and pond repair at
http://www.wetwebmedia.com/PondSubWebIndex/thoroselart.htm.
You mention an acid wash before introducing livestock.  Does this include koi?
<Yes>
I could not find the article on acid wash.  Do you have a link?
<Here: http://www.wetwebmedia.com/PondSubWebIndex/acidblchpds.htm>
I read as many of your pages as I had time and could not find this
information.
Thanks,
Charles
<Is on the Pond subweb index, can be found by using the search tool... Bob Fenner>

Water garden coating  8/16/05
When constructing my home, I had an above ground enclosure built on a sloping side, so I could add a water garden.  It's approx. 7 ft by 4 ft by 3 ft deep. Two walls are brick and two are foundation concrete blocks.  I plan to coat the inside surfaces with Dri-Lock for a water seal, but it is white.  I'd like the inside to be black.
<Mmm, you can add color/pigments to the Dri-Lock...>
Is there a "simple" paint that would be safe for fish and aquatic plants?  I've read about neoprene coating and epoxy paints, but they sound like more than I need.  The surface will be waterproofed by the Dri-Lock.  I just want it to be black. Thanks for your help.
Ojay
<There are a few routes to go here... the simplest, cheapest are asphalt emulsions... a bit messy to apply, and need to be completely cured before immersion... but beautiful, inexpensive. As you mention, there are rubber, epoxy "pool" paints... these need to be carefully investigated, applied, using the manufacturers thinners, instructions to the letter. Bob Fenner>

Re: water garden coating 8/17/05
Thanks for your quick response.  You mention that the Dri-Lock can be
pigmented.  True, but only slightly, yielding light colors.  About the
asphalt emulsion, am I looking for a certain type?  One I just checked out
was for patching asphalt drives, but it said not to use it on concrete.
Ojay
<Mmm, can't recall the numbers... for Henry's or Marvin's... I think 104 or 107... Need to read the cans, maybe visit these companies websites. Bob Fenner>

Pond Armor, failing product, leaking pond 7/16/05
Hello,
<Hi there>
We found your site too late. We also had a bad experience trying to seal our
pond. Can I still use Thoroseal if I already have something on the concrete.
<Depends on what that/this is...>
We bought something called pond armor. It is a two part mix in quart cans.
<Is it this: http://www.pondarmor.com/>
It seems like an epoxy of some sort. I have put several cotes on and the
pond still loses water rapidly. The concrete pour done by the contractor was
not good. I had to fill a lot of cratering in the walls as well. He
disagreed that the pour was... well poor. It was too dry and set up before
packing down smoothly. I suspect I'll have to re-construct in a few years,
but I need to get by for a while on this build. I cannot afford the time and
expense of jack hammering and re-pouring right now.
<...>
This was a new build with new concrete that is now totally covered by the
failing material. Should I try to use another coating of something that will
stick to the coating I already used?
<From reading this sites spiel... what terrible pix!... am not hopeful that much of anything will "stick" to it... Am back to my usual advice here... to pretend that you just have a hole in the ground... and build a new pond (with a liner et al.) inside it>
Thanks for your page.
Please help.
Talon
<Good luck with your project. I wish you well. Bob Fenner>

Re: Pond Armor 7/16/05
Robert,
<Talon>
Thanks for the quick reply. The link you found is the stuff I used. The
biggest problem is that it does not cover as much square footage as
reported. We had to re-order another two applications at $75 a pop.
<... what a rip... there are times when I wonder whether the premise of "original nature" of humans is off... That is to say, whether this is "good" or "neither" good/bad... To the point, would I be willing to sell people this stuff with the spiel listed? No... too many ponds built, failed coatings seen... even if this material covered the purported sixty square feet... ten mils nominal... for $75... I wouldn't be able to look folks in the eye>
The
pigment part is a full quart. The activator or catalyst is about half a
quart. You end up with less than a quart and a half when you get it mixed.
They claim sixty square ft. at 10 mils. That simply does not happen. I
estimate I got through about 40 sq. ft. at maybe three mils. A lot gets
wasted trying to get it out from under the lip of the can and out of the
mixing bucket.
<Oh, should have read your input first... Scam!>
I thought I would share this info with you in case anyone else asks about
it. I think the product would have been fine if we could have gotten enough
on the surface. It is just too expensive for the sq. footage. I figure I'll
just have to abrade it and goop it up with some kind of less expensive
product.
<What if the basin "moves?" or folks have rock et al. elements penetrating same?>
To their credit, the staff was quite willing to consult and had great
follow-up. Now, if they would just send enough to finish the job we would be
in luck.
T.
<Am still not a buyer. BobF>

Re: Pond Armor 7/16/05
Robert,
<Talon>
I have one last question and I'll quit bugging you. Since the Thoroseal is
not an option, do you know anything about a product called Sani-Tred?
http://www.sanitred.com/WaterFountain.htm
I may try this next unless you know something better.
T.
<Says is "liquid rubber based"... I would definitely chat with someone there re its adherence to the epoxy before purchasing... try out a small area... Bob Fenner>

Re: Pond Armor 7/22/05
Mr. Fenner,
<Butch>
My name is Butch Kuhl.  I am one of the owners of Pond Armor, producers of Pond Shield.  I know from your Daily FAQ over at Wet Web Media that you are at least familiar with our name.
<Yes, just recently... from a query, reading your website>
Let me start off by saying that there was a bit of a debate between my business partner and myself as to whether or not we should contact you.  Frequently, when exception is taken to advice given on a FAQ/Q&A site, the moderator will take it personally and use specific quotes out of context to distort the intent of the message.
<Mmm, I try not to misconstrue... nor give "advice" re anything I don't have first-hand experience with... unless this is stated emphatically>
In the end, all one can do is hope that the person being contacted is reasonable and is open to listening.  We hope that you are this type of person.
Recently you answered an email from a person who had some problems trying to seal their pond.  After reading the details about this pond, I recognized it as one I dealt with just days before.  When customers call in and speak with us about our coatings and how to best proceed with their project we take a lot of notes and record as much detail as possible so that we can guide them through the use of our product for their particular project.
<This is wise. Know that I was a contractor, designing, building water features for two decades... did forensic work... re folks suing people... among the complaints, most often for failed sealants>
It's in this way that we can try and help them not miss or skip steps in the process of preparing and applying Pond Shield.  For now, I'll move on to product details and we'll come back to this project afterwards.
<I do re this>
I'd like to spend a little time here explaining to you what Pond Shield is and how it came about.  As you know, there are a great many coatings for the pond enthusiast on the market today.  Each has at least one advantage and in most cases several disadvantages such as; poor color choices, high price per square foot, installation ease of use issues, life span, toxicity, hidden costs, aesthetics, or material composition.
<Well-stated>
  There are many more disadvantages but those I listed are probably on the minds of pond owners more than most.  Now if you couple that with the fact that not all ponds are created equal, you end up with huge variety of issues regarding pond projects being built today.  Let's face it, pond owners are some of the more creative people in the home and garden world and are willing to go to great lengths to create their dream ponds.  The problem is that the majority of typical end users may not be ready to perform many of the so called "do it yourself" tasks required to get that dream pond from conception to completion.  This can either stem from a person that skips or skimps on required steps or in some cases to the lack of knowledge to perform a particular step needed to finish a project properly.  So the responsibility of a coating manufacturer, like Pond Armor, is to try and keep the coating system as simple as possible to eliminate or minimize as many of the negative factors that can arise during a typical end users pond project.
<Agreed...>
This in turn means that someone, like a professional pond builder or contractor, who already is knowledgeable about this sort of work, can perform the tasks needed much more easily than consumers not in the trade.  What it boils down to is that if a product is designed around a consumer with minimal construction skills in mind, then everyone from that benchmark up should be successful with their project as long as they perform the necessary steps indicated.    
With the creation of Pond Shield, every negative factor we could conceive of was discussed and dealt with before the coating was released to the general public.  For instance, it is possible to spray our epoxy but we made sure that in a worse case scenario, a roller or a brush could be used to apply it.  The instructions we give out with the product offer the best and easiest possible explanation for preparing your pond and eventually applying the coating.  Customers that call in and ask questions get even more assistance because they can chat with us about their specific projects.  In some cases our customers even send pictures of their ponds in so we can assist them.
Our epoxy is derived from a more industrial version of an epoxy we have been using for the past 15+ years on projects like trout hatcheries in Canada and water treatment facilities.
<Yes>
With proper care, our epoxies can last that long and longer.  As I mentioned earlier, one of our concerns was toxicity.  Instead of dealing with this issue by testing cured samples of our epoxies, we tested uncured samples!  We figured the worse case possible would be the customer that didn't mix the epoxy thoroughly and had spots that hadn't fully cured before he/she filled their pond with water and added fish.  So the tests were performed and our epoxies were deemed non-toxic, ensuring us that poisoning would not ever be an issue.  One of the other great concerns regarding coatings has and will always be price.  We have priced our epoxies so that they are very competitive in the current market.  We made sure that ease of use keeps our prices low when comparing them to materials and installation of products like Polyurea or CIM.  It's common knowledge that Polyurea sprayed pond liners are cost prohibitive and coatings like CIM are indeed very finicky and troublesome for anyone not familiar with their application.  In comparison to a product like Herco, Pond Shield does not require thinners or special primers (that amount to a hidden cost) to complete a project.  In fact, even though Hecht Rubber Company's web site states you need to thin their material and apply a primer, you won't find those instructions on a can of their neoprene rubber coating.  I know you have recommended that people use Thoroseal as an option but like many other coatings of this type it can be troublesome for end users.
<Yes... to be clear, specific here... Thoro products have as you state so well, only limited application... not useful for basins with substantial cracking, shifting...>
I have spoken to many people that were considering the use of Thoroseal but had no idea how to apply it anyways.  I'm pretty sure that if you compare skill sets, applying paint on with a roller is considered easier than floating a plaster type of material.
<Mmm, can be applied with a brush...>
In fact, I have contractors that tell me how thankful they are that they don't have to waste man hours on Thoroseal anymore and have switched to using Pond Shield.  In any event, you get the idea.
<I see the point you are trying to make>
Now as far as the person mentioned above, I'd like to point out what the problem with that pond actually is.  After the home owner contacted us indicating a problem we had them send us photos.  It is clear from those photos that the concrete was poured poorly.
<Happens... all the time>
What happened as a result of that was that many holes in the surface - that ranged in size from minor imperfections to holes big enough to stick your finger into up to the second knuckle - were created.
<...!>
  Unfortunately for the customer, the only way to take care of the problem was with some sort of surface render prior to coating.  We were not made aware of the how drastic the surface imperfections were at initial contact. Instead of referring to the surface area as pitted in any way, the customer referred to the concrete as being porous.  All concrete is porous
<Yes>
so we never even realized there was a potential issue.  Hence the first coating that was put on the pond failed.  After subsequent emails (one containing a picture of the home owner inserting a finger directly into the wall of the pond) it was discussed that the best course of action would be to fill all of the holes and recoat.  As our epoxy systems allow other plastic type materials to bond to it,
<A very good feature>
we decided that plastic fillers with thickening agents be used after the Pond Shield was abraded with at least 60-grit sand paper.  Once the filler had cured, a fresh coat of epoxy could be applied to finish seal the pond.  As it turns out, the second coating failed (due to the fact that the home owner did not adequately fill the hundreds of pitted and large holes throughout the pond) and you were asked for advice.   Your response on your daily FAQ has led me to contact with you.
<I appreciate it/this>
Advice and opinions can come from varying sources and we understand that.  However, advice and opinions offered by persons or organizations should be done with knowledge gained through experience and/or due diligence rather than just casual observation - especially when those asking for information are truly in need of assistance.  Frankly, we believe that some of the comments you made in this discussion were not made with the benefit of anything other than casual observation.
<Mmm, let me take a look
  We believe that this lack of due diligence on your part has caused you to give poor advice
<I don't give advice... only tell folks what I would do in similar circumstances... My comments are only in direct response to the input provided... Here: http://www.wetwebmedia.com/PondSubWebIndex/thorselfaqs.htm>
to your readers and given a completely false impression of our company and its product.  In the specific case that began your comments, I do not believe that the person asking for help was given the most responsible advice.  Really, telling the person to start over without knowing the specific details of the issues?
<... please read my comments, responses again... Given the scant information... it is my abiding opinion that this person should actually "start again"... treat the hole they have as such, use a liner, reinforcing wire... Not try any coating, plug...>
I think referring the person back to the coating company would have been a good first start.
<As... you'll see was done...>
  As it turns out with this customer (in asking the home owner for more specific information) I requested more pictures of the pond after the second coating failure.  As stated above, there were still more unfilled holes.  Holes that had not been fixed, thereby causing the same leak issue it has at present.  Now, restating what I stated above, if the pond is prepared properly and the coating is applied properly as we explain in our instructions, failures like this won't happen.
<If the basin/s are otherwise stable...>
  To have so casually blamed our company and disparaged our product (as well as calling us a scam and a rip) was reckless and unfair on your part.  Particularly so, given that we created this company with a real desire to make a better product that would be beneficial to pond enthusiasts.
<Sir, the cost of your product, the stated coverage... is what my reaction is/was based on... I would not use this technology period>
Does this mean failures will be nonexistent?  Of course not, I make it clear that while our epoxies are designed to be flexible in nature and resist mimic cracking of things like mortar joint cracking or hairline cracks that can form in concrete,  this does not guarantee that cracking cannot occur.  Usually, when cracking occurs, it is an indication that something may be happening with the surrounding substrate.  In which case, if you have severe movement or a root pushing up through your pond, you have worse issues than a coating failure.  Regardless of the coating used, even a bare concrete pond will not withstand that sort of abuse.
<In S. California where the ground moves a great deal, we always utilized underlayments (liners). Our companies installed many such features, of several million dollars total cost, over decades of time... We "lived through" the use of asphalt emulsions, chlorinated rubber paints... and epoxies as yours...>
Just as you educate and inform your readers I hope that you will give me an opportunity to do the same for you regarding our product.  We have many contractors and sophisticated pond hobbyists who praise our product and enthusiastically use it.  I invite you to contact me at any time to chat about our products and become more familiar with them and with us.  We are people who love ponds.  We are also people who love helping our customers achieve their goals.  On a final note, in response to your posted answer, we are quite able to look each of our customers in the eye knowing we have made a major improvement to the lining choices available to those people who use our product.   
My phone number is 1-800-716-1545.  We are moving into our new manufacturing facility beginning Friday and will have operations shut down while setting everything up next week, so if you have to leave me a voice mail please be assured that I will return your call as soon as possible.  If after talking, you are interested, we can get you a sample to try out and see for yourself that we are offering a quality product like none you have ever used before.  It is my hope that after reading this, discussing the issues with me and using a sample, that you would take it upon yourself to post a retraction of your statements on your site.  Who knows, perhaps you will find that using Pond Shield truly is the advancement we believe it to be when compared to older linings/coatings.
<... you are welcome to contact me through the Net... I have a title coming out soon re Water Feature Design, Construction, Stocking & Maintenance... I will gladly send you a copy. Thank you for proffering your side of this instance, offering your input/side, being forthright re company, it's re-packaged product. I wish you well. Bob Fenner>

Re: Pond Armor 7/25/05
Mr. Fenner,
<Bob is fine Butch>
I appreciate your reply and the time you took to take a look at our letter.
Please excuse me for replying so many days after your response but as
discussed earlier, we are in the process of moving.  I would like to clarify
a couple of points if I may.
<Please do>
First, Pond Shield is not a repackaged product.  It is derived from an epoxy
we already had.  That is to say we took one of our existing more
industrialized epoxies and modified it for hobbyist use and pond application
in specific.  It is a new product.  In fact, we believe that using this new
product in it's non-pigmented form (Clear Pond Shield) for one, will allow
hobbyists and contractors alike to build PH stable ponds never dreamed of
before with materials such as exotic woods, metals, tile, and stone.  This
is a new product for people with a new vision of ponds.
<... after being in the trade for many years, I am doubtful as to all other technologies than liners>
As for the stated coverage, if you do the math, you'll find that our epoxy
works out to only about $1.24 per square foot for consumers (less for
contractors).  That's far less than other epoxies, plastics or rubber
sealers on the market today - especially if you take into account hidden
costs for primers or thinners that are required for competing products.
This, amongst other things is why our epoxies are unlike any other epoxies
on the market today, so it's unlikely you've used something like Pond Shield
before.
<... liners are about a quarter of this cost... last forever>
Finally, I believe that the information given to you by the poster led you
to make inaccurate statements in response that have put out company and its
product in an inaccurately unfavorable light.  Given the circumstances, I
hope that you feel, as we do, that it would be appropriate of you to remove
any references form this post and it's thread from your site archives.
<No...>
In any event, I still welcome you to contact us and use a sample so you can
better evaluate what we have to offer.
Thank you,
Butch
<Mmm, thank you again, but no... I am long-since retired from actual practice in the field. I do believe you, your company have some future, application... but given my knowledge of the past... for all coverings... of all make-up, and the public's use thereof... I would not continue... it's a litigious world here in the west Butch... though your product may work fine as stated... Bob Fenner>

Thoroseal Use
Wed, 16 Mar 2005
Good Afternoon Mr. Fenner Robert:
<Buenos dias Carlos>
I am thinking of using the Thoroseal Waterproofing cement on my concrete pool deck.
<Bueno>
May I ask if you recommend this and what concrete dye did you use?
<These are made for the stucco and concrete business... Come in powder form... one and five and larger pound size containers>
Where did you purchase this?
<At/through local concrete et al. companies. Mainly Expo Stucco here in San Diego>
I live in Southern New Jersey. 
<I would look in your "Yellow Page" directories under "concrete", make a few calls... You'll soon have what colors, accents you're looking for. Bob Fenner>
Thank you for any assistance and advice you may offer.
Best Regards,
Carlos M. Ingravera 

Re: Thoroseal Use
Robert:
<Carlos>
May I ask 2 more questions. Hope this is not bother.
<Never a bother>
1-Do you think it is wise to apply the Thoroseal on a pool deck, making it impervious to water? The concrete won't "breathe"?
<Good question... actually, if the concrete is "more" cured... a few weeks to months old... this is not really a concern. What IS important is to make sure the surface is absolutely clean... likely to "acid wash" it... and if there is any biological material (e.g. algae) to bleach wash it before, make sure it's dry and then acid-wash/etch it ahead of time>
2-Should I apply a sealer after coloring?
<Mmmm, I would ask the folks selling the Thoro product... am thinking there may have been improvements in this technology since I used it (last some fifteen years back). There may well be good sealers nowadays... Back when they weren't worth a hoot>
I am originally from New York, but I love Jersey, though I was conceived in Los Angels....
Carlos
<Ahh, and I was born in Rhode Island, but have lived outside the U.S. more than half my life... currently reside about half the year in San Diego, California. Bob Fenner> 

Appropriate paint
I'm repairing a crack in a concrete fish pond that came with our house. I chipped out and filled the crack with Thoro Waterplug, and now I looking for a paint/coating I can use to match what is already there. The pond is dark green, but the only suitable paints I can find seem to be so light (white, blue, gray, beige) they cannot even be tinted to match. Can
you suggest something?  Thank you,  Bill Crowell
<I hope so... depending on the rest of the basin coating... hopefully it can be acid-etched... after being bleach-cleaned... see WetWebMedia.com re... can be coated with another cementatious material, like Thoroseal... that has been colored with pigment/oxide... take a sample of the color you're looking for into where you bought the WaterPlug... and they should be able to match it... If this is, or you want (I would NOT in a biological system) to coat this basin with an epoxy or chlorinated (pool) paint... Nelson, et al. do make such. These should be able to be procured through a large swimming pool supply. Bob Fenner>

Re: Appropriate paint
Thank you very much for a most helpful answer.  Bill Crowell
<You're certainly welcome. Do take care if/when applying the CR or epoxy paint's... and follow the directions for application, preparation "to a T"... these are "finicky" products... Bob Fenner>

Thoroseal for rock pools
Would you recommend Thoroseal for the pool gunite sealer as well as
different colors for the actual concrete structures?
Thanks
Respectfully Submitted,
Glenn Vodhanel
<Mmm, actually... IF you've paid for gunite installation (almost always
Union), I would go ahead with having the same contractor arrange for "pool
plastering" for color and seal... though, yes, Thoroseal or similar could be
employed. Bob Fenner>

Pond Sealing
Hello:
I found your write-up regarding foundation coatings for water features. We
have a 10-15 year old pond in Carlsbad (part of San Diego where RMF lives as well). I plan to take your advice and use
Thoroseal to refinish it.
The pond has a waterfall and is decorative only. We do not have fish.
Do you have a suggestion for color for the finish?
<Something dark... as it will become so (and quickly this time of year) with algal growth>
I'd like to minimize the
impact of dirt that creeps into the pool, so something dark would be good.
Does Thoroseal come in colors other than gray? What kind and how much color
pigment should I add?
Thanks,
Curt Yaws
<Can be easily colorized with oxide agents... do call on Expo Stucco (in Miramar area still I think) re their selections... and they are a big distributor of Thoro products. Bob Fenner>

Re: Pond Sealing
Bob:
Are you available as a consultant. I like to do projects myself, but prefer
to get good advise before I mess something up. I have just water blasted my
pond to clean off the old Thoroseal and have several cracks. Also, the
concrete is quite rough now. I'd be happy to pay for a short visit.
Curt Yaws
<Do occasionally get out and about... reminds me, I've got to call the folks out at Lakeside re a water feature they're putting in... but am out of town till the end of the month and then back out soon for another week. Are the cracks "expansive"? If they're small (less than an eighth of an inch across) and old (years) you might be able to effect a repair with a non-elastic fix (e.g. cementatious materials)... if not, the liner repair route is suggested. Bob Fenner>

I found your article on Thoroseal...
We have been looking everywhere for a how - to and which products to use to
resurface our 3 year old cement pool slide. Do you have any recommendations?
Would this work?  Is it sleek after it's dry?
Thanks so much, Cheryl Foster
<This is a very good product (line) for biological pond repairs, sealing...
Not really smooth though, and that's what you want for a slide. I would
enlist the help of a pool plastering co. here... and roughen, and re-surface
the slide with a cement "plaster" coat... of good plastic cement, sharp
sand... and good white "glue". Get some help if you've never done this
before. Bob Fenner>

Acid Wash (for ponds)
>From your article on Thoroseal.....
10) The coating should be lightly acid-washed per the Section of the same
title, to reduce alkalinity, before introducing livestock
I can't find a section on acid wash.
<Tis here: http://www.wetwebmedia.com/PondSubWebIndex/acidblchpds.htm>
I have completed my Thoroseal Foundation Coatings and now need to know the
acid wash procedures.
<This is the protocol we used. Please contact me if you have questions, concerns. Bob Fenner>
Thanks........
Carl Hopkins

Thoroseal
Hi,
I just stumbled upon your website which includes a "how-to" for the use of
Thoroseal. We appreciate you promoting Thoro products (which along with
Hydrozo and ThoRoc became part of ChemRex in 1999), but giving out correct
information as to their use would be even more beneficial.
<Mmm, hopefully I can find what you're referring to as "correct information". Would you state categorically what you mean?>
Below are
technical data guides for Thoroseal and Acryl 60 (not Acrylmix 60). If you
would like to visit our website, you could obtain current tech data guides
for other products as well. If you have questions concerning the use of
our products, please contact our Technical Service Department and we would
be glad to help you.
<Thank you for this input. Will make corrections, and post your note. Bob Fenner>
(See attached file: 87916 Thoroseal TH145.pdf)(See attached file: 87913
Acryl 60 TH101.pdf)
Joan Kaufenberg
ChemRex Technical Services
www.chemrex.com

Re: Thoroseal
Since receiving your memo, I had our IT Department scan the network for
viruses and it was clean. I also scanned my own PC and it also is clean.
You could have a problem at your end.
<To be clear/er here. On attempting to open your .pdf file, the MS software that is Hotmail stated there was an unidentified virus there...>
You can easily get the tech data guides I sent you by going to the website
I previously gave you.
Joan
<Very well... Will likely just post your comments, link. Bob Fenner>

Questions about Thoroseal
I would like to use Thoroseal on my pond cracks that run alongside the
top perimeter (after I patch them with waterplug).
<Good idea...>
I had planned on draining the water in the pond to the level where I
can work on the pond, but I cannot empty and remove the fish for the
process.
<Hmm... I would get/use a kiddie wading pool, shade, cover/net, aeration, filtration... and remove the livestock...>
My concern is that I won't be able to acid wash the pond because of the
fish. Do you have any suggestions of a non toxic rinse or a wash that
would not affect the fish?
<There is none as far as I'm concerned, aware... best to settle on the fact that you will be removing all from the pond to do the job properly... Bob Fenner, who has "been there, tried, done, re-done that many times">
Thanks!
Maria, Baltimore, MD

Thoro products
Hello,
I am in Atlanta, GA, USA, searching the internet for references to a
product I have used successfully in the past, and with no competition -
Super Thoroseal concrete waterproofing material (powder form, mixed with
water, then applied to concrete surfaces in need of waterproofing).
I am having difficulty finding a U.S. distributor or retail outlet for
that product, and am currently in need of it for a construction project.
If you can provide any information, my appreciation in advance. If not,
please pardon me for your time.
Best regards,
John Vassar
<Hmm, was able to trace down the company that now owns Thoro, and their site to get you where you want to go: http://www.afsonl.com/homes/1651/
Bob Fenner, who really likes these products, and has used tons of them.>