WWFFAQs2

Wet Web Fotos/bb.WetWebMedia.com Input 2

Please check out the fruit of some very hard labor from the rest of the WWM crew...
WetWebFotos!!! is here
It's up.
http://wetwebfotos.com or
http://www.wetwebfotos.com if you're picky.
Whew. Here we go. -Zo
<BANZAI! Bob F.>

Re: What WWM's bb is not... currently... 7/20/08
Hi all,
I don't mean to be a downer, but maybe we should take a minute to consider if the forum is really all that important. There are already dozens of reef/marine aquarium oriented forums that are well established for years. I'm sure everyone has heard of Reef Central, but there are also, so so many others (Reefs.org, Reefland, Marine Depot, Reef Monkey, Reef Sanctuary, Nano-Reef, Reef Frontiers, etc, etc... the list goes on and on, really) The way I see it, there are soooo many of these forums and only so many hobbyists (most of which typically seem to stay "loyal" to one or two forums).
Personally, I greatly prefer WWM's query/answer format to the forum format. I think evidence of its/Bob's genius is in the fact that WWM gets significantly more traffic than any web forum (even more than RC). So... I know not all would agree with me, but I'd still rather see would-be forum posters send their queries to the crew (as this has been a big part of what has built the whole site into what it is).
Just my $0.02
Best,
Sara M.

I was thinking it would increase traffic, or at least increase page views, thus increasing ad views/revenue. If this isn't the case, then you're right, there are many forums (though rife with inaccurate information).
Mike Maddox

I respectfully disagree here; I believe wholeheartedly that it's as simple as some folks preferring one format over the other. And, as was the case for me personally, many just "get their feet wet" on the forum, learn the subject matter, while making long-lasting friends at the same time. Of course there's pros and cons to both formats, but the queries, IMHO, do not necessarily foster the camaraderie (is that how the word is spelled?) aspect which is a definite part of this, and any, hobby. Further, while there are indeed many alternative forums, none have the unique and intimate aspect that WWM somehow manages to maintain. I do agree that some things can be improved upon, but that's the case with most everything. Moreover, not to be difficult and point fingers, I do find it interesting that Adam was the one to bring this issue up. Although I have not been as active over the past year, year and one half as I would have liked, I've been involved enough to know that certain repeat behavior on his part caused serious problem, specifically a decline in membership. Adam, I do not want to turn this into a "bashing session" in any way, but I do want to point out again that though you have valuable input on the boards, your lack of appropriate demeanor has on several occasions caused much issue. Perhaps I am wrong to question, but I do somehow wonder about the sincerity of your motives in stirring all this up. Anyways, as most have suggested, there are indeed things which could be improved upon, no doubt. And, I think it valuable to brainstorm upon them. However, I do take issue when people who have repeatedly been a large part of the problem sit back and "pontificate" in this manner- somehow rubs me wrong. Sabrina and Lynn, among others, have put a lot of effort into transitioning to the new forum, and I for one thank them for their efforts. Only thing I can think of is to have some sort of management "staff" (Admins and moderators), and to try to have semi-regular "meeting" to discuss points, etc. Of course this is hard when dealing with time constraints of life, but perhaps it would help. It led to development of much-needed ground rules, for instance...a humble but necessary beginning. Just my thoughts as I take a break from the books. Regards to you all, Jorie ------

Jorie, all--
Just to be clear, I would certainly not discourage anyone from taking it upon themselves to make the most of this forum if that's what they want to do. Absolutely, if you, Lynn, Sabrina, Mike, etc... whomever else have the spare time/effort to put into it, I say knock yourselves out (and enjoy!) I'm just personally not so interested because it just doesn't seem so worthwhile/important to me (imo).
Best,
Sara M.

I'm still with Sara on this.
As it is, I do a sizeable chunk of the freshwater queries that come into WWM. I can't say how long it takes, but I'm sure across the week its several hours. Given time is limited, I just feel Bob gets better value from me doing that stuff, rather than the forum.
I have no objections to the forum at all: enjoy!
Cheers, Neale

Hello everyone, After reading some of the comments today regarding the forums, I have to admit to being more than a bit disturbed and disappointed. Are the forums considered so lacking in merit, so hopelessly outclassed by other established online sites, that they're not worth working to improve? Not surprisingly, I don't see it that way at all. I see the forums as new, yes - in need of work, most definitely, but the site is not without promise - and certainly worth preserving and supporting. I believe that the forums have a real potential to *add* to the vast amount of information at WWM, as well as serve as an additional venue for helping people. Isn't that what our site is all about? The forums allow us to help even more people, but they could never, in any way, compete with the value and importance of the daily Q&A's. There's also no way that they can compete with forums that have been around for much longer than 6 months. The forum section simply supplies a different venue for sharing information that I believe could help us all. I can't see how its presence could be a negative. If it's not as large, popular, or deemed as valuable as some of the other sites, well let's work on that and make it so. Rome was not built in a day. What I absolutely do not want to see is the forum site relegated to a sort of outcast status, where it's not supported and only barely tolerated. I'd like to know right now which it's going to be. Take care, Lynn -----

Hi Lynn,
<Hi Neale>
I know I'm not saying this, and I don't think others are either.
<That's good to hear, because it would be a real shame.>
Certainly forums are attractive to people who like interaction and group activities. The FAQs on the other hand are a way for one person to get a tailored response to their query from someone nominally an expert in the field. Not everyone likes using forums for that sort of thing.
<That's true and I completely understand. That's why I think it's so great to offer both, and why I respond in both areas.>
The question is specifically whether WWM *needs* a forum; I'd argue no. But that doesn't mean I have any ill-will to the thing. If you see a posting there you think I should comment on, then by all means e- mail and I'll stop by.
<Thanks, Neale. I can't tell you how much I appreciate that.>
But in the 30-60 minutes per day I spend on WWM, I'd sooner go through the incoming Freshwater mailbox helping Bob keep that sorted.
<Absolutely understandable and I agree that answering the Daily Q&A's should always be *the* priority. That's why I've never asked for help, because I know it's asking too much. The support I mentioned extends only to those who have the time and want to be involved, whether it's suggestions, moderating, or answering the occasional question.> There appear to be more marine fishkeepers on the Crew than freshwater, so my instinct is to stay working where I can do the most good.

Cheers, Neale
<Thanks Neale. Take care, -Lynn>

Darrel B chimes in:
Well, no one has directly asked me MY opinion on the forum situation yet. Usually this is because a lot of people feel the need to wash their hands or even shower after reading my opinions. One person alleged that one of my opinions was so bad it caused her IQ to drop precipitously and permanently, so consider yourself warned!!!
<... here it comes...>
I like the WWM site very much, but mostly for content, not so much for style. It's packed with enough information that it's sometimes hard to decide where to look first. It's MUCH better than it was before, but still we miss the simple things: For example, if you miss a day reading the FAQ's, there's no link to "yesterday's" faq (where that one has a link to the day before, etc.) so if you miss one day it's not hard to be out of the loop so to speak, since more than a few letters are follow-ups, etc.
<Yet another poss. improvement...>
There is a convention for doing that in web-based time sensitive materials and we just don't follow it. I always assumed that it was because this was a low profit, volunteer-based site and every time someone has a "wouldn't it be nice IF" idea ... it means someone will be expected to give up a few more precious minutes of that fantasy of a "personal life" that we chase.
<"Lordy ain't got no more bricks">
If I am incorrect it this .. if WWM is in fact a high profit commercial web site and Mr. Fenner is creaming enough money off the top to live a life of decadence beyond the wildest dreams of Croesus,
<Well... Mira Mesa...>
then I DO have a few suggestions. And an allegation that I am his love child and entitled to my share.
<Hotay!>
I think that an active forum would be an asset to the site in general and although there are many existing forums I think it's always in our interest that people come here first for everything and only leave when it's a level of specialization beyond our scope. But a primary key is ACTIVE forum. When someone hits a forum on the web, finds a topic that interests them and click in -- only to find that the last post was a month or more ago, people tend the leave the ENTIRE SITE faster than changing stations when they accidentally tune their car radio to a foreign language station.
<"There's a place in France where the ladies...">
Getting it jump started can be very easy or very hard -- there are no fixed rules. But You need section leaders that keep topics going -- even if it comes down to talking to themselves, writing min-articles, etc. It has to be active in order to draw people in and keep them in -- when the forum falls into disrepair or disuse it tends to drain the entire site (don't ask me why).
<Why not?>
Another issue .... and I don't want to tread too heavily on this one .. is that this is an information & education site where lateral information exchange is very often counter-productive. I would take issue with anyone suggesting that Alligators DO make good pets, so should someone post that in a herptile subject we can't make a "debate" out of it -- we make an entry stating "No they do not. That is the official position of WWM, every single state's Fish & Game department, the US Fish & Wildlife Service and Bill Rivers, a friend from college who though he knew best and is now know to his close friends as 'stumpy." And then LOCK DOWN the subject ..... sometimes even the poster, if necessary. Our "Police" force (Moderators) can't simply police person #1 calling person #2 a doo-doo head. They have to be fact police as well.
<Agreed>
So first things first -- given how hard it was to simply keep up the FAQs last months while Bob went to far off exotic places (even I, the turtle guy, was trying to help Sara out by answering Gourami worm questions!) ... so do you/we have the resources of intelligent, educated people who can make the commitment? (Notice how I added 'intelligent' into the requirements and therefore removed myself from the potential list of candidates????)
<You sly devil you>
Second, someone has to spend the time and/or money to replace the "skins" so that it matches the professional tone of the rest of the site. Again, for reasons beyond knowing, only fan sites can get away with just placing Wonder Board on their site and getting away with it.
So dear reader, in closing -- it is my opinion (also known as the "right" or "correct" opinion) that a BBS on an information & education web site is a significant commitment of time and energy and that we, collectively have the experience and intelligence (not withstanding the drain that I and a few others pose) haven't shown the ability to produce the man hours on a consistent basis.

Personally, I'd look for ways to make the site more profitable first, so that the needs of it's administration could be contracted professionally before I would tend to expand it in more directions.
<Oooh, am all ears... well, some other parts as well... "Some" more money would be nice... not the linqua Latina derivative for "un- or not known", but actually what this largess would/might get us>
That's all the help I can be right now ... but when the 250 million dollars from that Nigerian Banker comes through I'll be in a position to do a bit more.
<I'll be joining you with my mighty tool. BobF>

Well hello again all,
<Howsit?>
First off I have to say I’m vaguely disappointed in some of the responses here and I apologize for inadvertently throwing Lynn under the bus and not being present to defend her /the forums. Before I give my rebuttal/suggestions I would like to get the un-pleasantries out of the way by saying that to my knowledge WetWebMedia has always been built around the volunteers that contribute the FAQ’s and articles, key word in this sentence was volunteer just incase anyone missed it. Point being I’ve never seen Bob force anything on anyone,<Wouldn't, likely couldn't have it any other way> if you do not desire to participate in the new extension of WetWebMedia, my suggestion is that you don’t, that part is simple. What may be challenging to some egos is to not make divisive comments to those of us that do find the format of a BB forum. My understanding is that the forum does not compete with the articles and FAQ’S/Queries generated by our crew. It’s an entirely different interaction process altogether. Personally, like Lynn, I enjoy all of the mediums that WetWebMedia offers. I like to write, and when I want to share, help I answer queries, when I want to be challenged or want an exchange rather than a one-way communiqué I go to the forums. The forums are meant as a supplement and not the inevitable replacement some of you fear it to be.
For those that are not forum regulars, the following is something you should know. While the website bb.wetwebmedia.com is relatively new, the idea of a forum supplement to www.wetwebmedia.com is not, www.wetwebfotos.com/talk has been around since 2000-2001. Yes it was mismanaged, yes it was inflexible and outdated but that does not diminish the flow of information that occurred there. In fact we often discover talent there who eventually go on to be veteran crewmembers, Lynn and myself included. There is a very loyal and very regular group of core members who transferred from here to the new BB forum which was more or less a replacement for Zo’s forum, if you want cut out the political correctness we’ve been dancing around with here (which as someone without much tact I always like to do).
My suggestions were simply made as a starting point to improve the forum (and Bob for the record I have only the access of a regular member, am not a Mod nor Admin, the only Mod who is an active crewmember is Lynn and perhaps Jorie soon). I think that more integration is key here, as Sara mentioned WWM has a large reader base and draws a lot of traffic, there is no disputing that. Where I disagree with her is that we should allow this traffic to be fleeting and wander off into other forums (most of which, I nor the current BBWWM members can’t stand *cough* reef central *cough*). Why? Exploit what we have. WetWebMedia is in my eyes the undisputed source for aquaria related knowledge, I say make it the undisputed leader in aquarium forums as well. If you don’t care to participate I would respectfully ask you to bow out of the conversation, because I do plan to help and I am sure there are others that do as well.
-Adam J (crewmember since 2004 but forum member since 2003)
<Thank you for sharing. BobF>

Hello Everyone...Just some initial observations I have seen from all the responses to the email / summary that I wrote and Bob posted via email...It shows to there is a distinct divide between crew members on whether they should take part on the forum, and some, whether it should be there at all. As I see it, I think it would be nice to have a show of hands on who does want to be part of the forum, and who does not. I think this will give a clear indication on where we all stand with staffing the forum. What are peoples thoughts on that?
<A fair summation of current sentiments, activity>
I have to agree with a point Lynn raised about who is in charge of the forum, and who should be making the action calls (Sabrina and Bob)
<Mmm, to be clear, IS up to SabrinaF... until which time she chooses to relinquish mgmt., she is in charge of the bb, period>
...That's very true, as I feel that is the Admins role on a forum, and not really the moderators...A point raised by Jorie is something along the lines of what I was thinking about.. Getting a proper staff structure setup.....Admins, Globals and mods...Admins have their meetings, and pass their info to the Globals and its discussed at a global meeting. and so on for the moderator meeting....all from above is filtered down, discussed and all feed back / discussion is documented.....That's how we do it on the forum I work at, and it works very well....Its all about structure in my opinion....hold meetings every month, or even every two months....sometimes this is where ( holding meetings ) new idea's / inspiration comes from and its all tabled in the open....My opinion on the forum, is that its a very important part of WWM, or rather, it could be / should be....Its another tool for us to disseminate information to the masses....Some people prefer the forum based communication over the personal email touch....so, why can we not give them that? it wont take away anything from WWM, as the people who prefer the personal touch will always be in the majority. Yes, there are LOADS of aquaria forums out there on the net....heck, my forum has over 88,000 registered members...and the other two sister forums a fair amount too.....BUT, my point is, why should that stop WWM BB being successful? Why should that stop us from channeling resources into the forum to MAKE it a success?? I believe we can do that, I believe we CAN make it a booming success as people will automatically know its the other side of the coin to WWM email service...Reap from the reputation WWM has, let it flow into the forums..Ok....you've all probably fallen asleep by now, so, I'll go back to my intravenous caffeine... :O)- Andrew
<Thank you for your further input. B>

Re: What WWM's bb is not... currently... 7/19/08
Completely agree that the forum is not as active as it should. One thing I have noticed is that it does not really show up when some google searches the net for a specific issue, its only really the WWM site FAQ’s or another aquatics forum. Maybe we could look into getting the forum itself submitted to search engines so it is indexed on the web like most other BB forums.
Regarding off topic chit-chat, I actually believe this is a good thing for a BB to have as this promotes a friendly atmosphere. Its promoted by providing a place on the forum for people to relax and chat non fishy...get to know other members...learn aspects of other peoples lives.....However, the main emphasis is on relaxing and enjoyment....To keep people on a forum, you have to provide diversity. not all fish related. There are plenty of area’s on the forum which encourages fishy talk...So, I think its fine as it is...
A point I do disagree with is the Admins issue. Staffing a forum is not about Admins.. It's all about moderators and global moderators. Moderators should be assigned to the specific forum sections, and global mod.s to cover all area’s. This allows certain staff members to concentrate on the promotion, change of their specific forum area, like Freshwater Topics or Marine Topics. I come from a strong staff forum background on the Monstreraquarianetwork.com and currently a global moderator, and have been admin on a couple of other popular BB forums. I spent a long time as a Marine moderator and really concentrated on promoting the marine area...introducing competitions, promoting member input for helping other, writing articles etc etc. As I see the forum at the moment, there does not seem to be any structure on the staff...just a small selection of Admins and globals...I believe this does need tailoring and I think it will have a positive impact on forum promotion. Admins role on a forum is to maintain the structure and overall site, not the specific forums themselves, that's the job of the moderators ( normal and global).
As mentioned by Adam, and its a VERY good point, more linking is required in the FAQ’s sections of WWM..There is really no direct link between WWM and the forum, as we currently run it. I feel this does need to be more integrated. Easily done by directly linking people when we answer the dailies.
I believe a new section should be created called Article Section. This area would be moderated by an assigned mod and they have control over the articles submitted. A separate hidden article edit section in the staff area where the specified mod will review submitted articles, get input from other team members and shape the article with more input from the submitter prior to posting on the forum. Then simply lock the article and provide a discussion thread so people can ask questions to the writer about the content.

"I have been wishing the forums were more active as well, but have been on a severe time constraint. I think Adam's idea of more Admins is a good one, though time is always an issue for everyone. More activity by a few Admins (myself included, I'd like to participate more if given admin/mod status) would definitely help readership IMO.
Also IMO, the front page should be rearranged just slightly (the left hand side, perhaps?) to allow for the forum link/pic to be "in your face" as well as to move the google search function up to the top and perhaps inside the frame. A little "retouching" of the front page would do wonders, and I could possibly find the time to do so if there is no objection/I am given access. I'm a huge fan of this website, and I think continued work to the site's navigation and accessibility is a good thing, though obviously easier said than done. While I am on the subject, I would like to retouch the main "branch sites" (the site you're shown when you click "marine and reef aquariums" for instance, to make it a little more visually appealing and easier/faster to find what you're looking for. This would be a work in progress, and may take me a few weeks (also working on a 'photosynthesis for the average aquarist' article among my many "let me into med school!
projects") but it's something I'd like to do.
Any thoughts?
Mike Maddox "

Mike, as always raises some important points.. Making the specific sections on the WWM front page more attractive is great.. it will channel more traffic into there.

"Hi everyone,
Unfortunately, I don't have the time right this second to get into this topic with any real depth, but just know that I'm more than willing to help in any way I can. After I'm finished with the crab query (probably tomorrow sometime) I won't be so busy. If it means taking on admin duties, then bring it on. I love the new forums, but unfortunately they've been very slow lately and I'd like to see that pick up. I don't think the problem has so much to do with people gabbing about non-fish related subjects as much as it's about people just not knowing about us.
I'd also love to see more interaction from the crewmembers (and Bob as well!), but I understand all too well about people's time constraints, and have never wanted to put anyone in the position of feeling obligated. By the way, we have had some members drop by, and I can't tell you how much I've appreciated it. Obviously, Adam is a regular that has contributed some terrific articles to the site. What I think is particularly important about these mini-articles is that they allow us, as a new and less established site, to kick-start the amount of information we offer people, and thus hopefully create a draw.
One last thing before I go is that the lag in attendance could also be somewhat seasonally related. I remember seeing such ebbs and flows at the previous forums during the summer as well. The bottom line is that Sabrina, bless her heart, did a terrific job setting everything up, but now we/I just need to figure out how to kick it up a notch!
Take care and have a great weekend!
-Lynn "

On the whole, I feel the whole staff which is on WWM answering dailies should be used as staff on the forum (if they want too). There is a good selection of us there, and between us, we cover all time zones, so, this means that there is always a good section of staff members available on the forum to help with member direction, give input etc etc. I suppose what I am seeing is no team work between WWM crew.
I have offered a few times to be part of the forum staff as I have plenty years under my belt in forum management at admin and global level, however, my offer has never been utilized. I do wonder why this is, when the forum itself is quiet, in its infancy and new heads are a good thing to introduce more input. We do need to pull together as a crew to work the forum, run new things, explore new avenues...
This all may come across to you all in a little bit of a negative light, but its not, its simply how I am seeing the forum because I am part of a very successful aquaria forum network, and all I simply want is for the forum to be 200% successful as I KNOW it can be.
That's my thoughts on the matter, simply just my opinion of course..
Andrew Nixon

Further input re chatting by the WWM Crew being posted, ScottV 7/25/08
<On another note, probably better for the whole crew. The last day or two there has been much discussion regarding keeping crew correspondence out of the dailies. I for one am all for keeping the conversations in.
<Ahh!>
From my point of view it is just this, conversation. I have never seen anything I would regard as and malicious argument, just those articulating their points of views. Some readers may view it as malicious, there will always be someone, oh well. As a crewmember of less than one year and previously an avid reader of the dailies, I found the most astonishing and refreshing thing joining the crew was/is the openness of what goes on. This is one of the alluring aspects of WWM, and what separates us from the particular forum that has been referred to the last day or two. The particular forum is fine with your post so long as it does not impugn them or their high posters.
People truly know who we are, where we come from, how we interact and why we give the advice we do. To me the interactions are part of our credibility.
The ability to question each other, in public, is priceless. Take this away and you limit the public's view to who we truly are. My 2 PSI, take or leave. Anyway, I cannot wait to meet up in HI, gear ready and waiting,
Scott V.>
<Thank you for this input, sharing. I too am happy to show/express the human sides of WWM... it IS a community of individuals... working in semi-concert to all's benefit... and the public DOES actually benefit from awareness of our being also "just folk". Cheers, BobF>

I don't necessarily disagree with crew correspondence being put into the dailies, however if they are to be put there I think everyone should be made aware (which I assume they now are). It seems a lot of us/them were not aware.
-Adam J.
<Mmm, really... the "choice" of inclusion is just a matter of my briefly saving most all... not excising before posting to/as the Dailies... Oh, anyone want to come fwd and do this for a while? B>

I agree the screening of every email that ends up in our outgoing box would be too much to do.
<Heeeee! We do agree... I try to review while checking for spelling, formatting issues, but often "find" items to comment on while re-posting... or splitting up FAQs files in SubFAQs... or... when folks write in to say summat's amiss. B>

I think ScottV makes some great points... agreed. -Sara M.

I'd like to just publicly thank Lynn for the hours of work she has put into the forum in the last day or two. Each topic forum now has it's own thread "stickied" to the top with the related WWM article and Faq's linked within the thread. This is a first and important move in integrating the forum to the main-site and improving it.
Thanks Lynn!
-Adam J
PS Please post in dailies :D
<Ah, will do... Thank you both. BobF>
<<Bob, Adam, you're very welcome. We're just doing what we can to improve the site for everyone. By the way, I also included the "Ask the WWM Crew a Question"/search engine link as well. Between those options and the associated WWM links, we should be able to effectively help a lot of people. Take care and have a great weekend. -Lynn>

What WWM's bb is not... currently... 7/18/08
Bob,
<Adam>
I’ve been thinking a lot a long the same lines as the lady who sent you this email but kept the thoughts to myself, as I felt they could seem ungrateful though they certainly are not intended that way. My suggestions have to do with the BB forum itself, there is a reason it is not attracting the crowd that it should be. It's just that as a crewmember I would like to see our site represented in a positive manner, and I feel the forum isn’t doing that right now.
<Oh? I have not "been there" much myself>
WWM has the largest reader base of all aquarium sites including reef central, ect.
<Etc.>
We need to figure out why that base is not transferring to the forums (even when it was WWF). My theory is to
<too>
much non related aquarium talk, I'm NOT saying to stop the bar and grill style chatting just encouraging real "fishy" content as well.
<How to do this?>
We need the Admins (Admins I said not Mods) to take a more active role, because right now they are not.
<Are you one of these? What is lacking in your opinion?>
The software on the new forum is VERY flexible in comparison to the old forum, yet a lot of the “bells and whistles” have yet to be exploited or even turned on.
<Will send this, and encourage you as well, to SabrinaF, as she picked up that proverbial gauntlet (at my urging) to bring this new bb to life>
Simple things like linking the forums to the main-site would be a big start and to take that even further, linking the related WWM articles to the related forum topics (FW, BW, INVERTS, and so on) with a “sticky” at the top would go along ways. These suggestions are not something that would take a long time, I can and would do these easily in half a day.
<Good. This outline of topic/headings was actually what I thought would work as well>
There are more in depth issues/suggestions too. Right now a lot of aquaria related questions go answered, which is why I have been spending a lot of time there lately and quite honestly lacking in the dailies (I apologize but I feel since the forum has the WWM name it represents us and our work ethic as well).
<It should, does>
Which, while it would be asking a lot, is why it would be nice to have crewmembers as the main or designated moderators.
<We're all volunteers Adam... we can only ask...>
Me and Lynn have tried to help out there with aquaria content (posting mini articles weekly or biweekly),
<Ahh, I have seen Lynn's... excellent. I am so out of a/the loop that I didn't realize you were doing these as well>
but two of us can only go so far with the limited access we have on the forums, admin wise. The ideal situation in my eyes, and it’s one I would definitely be willing to devote time to, is to have a new set of threads/forums, "author forums" sort of like the set ups as Marine Depot and RC and where Anthony Calfo and Eric Borneman are the Mods of their own forums, and have an ask and question set up.
<Good idea>
We could do this with “less famous” crewmembers who are willing, (like me and Lynn, though I don’t mean to volunteer her, she's just the most active crewmember on the forums). With the ease of navigation the forums has, I think if it’s developed it will eventually begin to alleviate a lot of the questions in the dailies and eventually give way to a lighter work load. There’s also a lot of people on the forums who have a lot of potential as it goes towards being an eventual crewmember, and I think if the “real” WWM were to get involved that process would speed up and we would see them volunteer, many of them have already made it known they would like to try their hands in writing articles. I think it can, eventually, be a very good investment for all of us, it just needs some love.
-Adam J.
<Thank you for coming forward... stirring the pot so to speak. I am going to give it a twist further and share your valuable input with the WWM Crew proper. Cheers, Bob Fenner>

Re: What WWM's bb is not... currently... 7/18/08
I have been wishing the forums were more active as well, but have been on a severe time constraint. I think Adam's idea of more Admins is a good one, though time is always an issue for everyone. More activity by a few Admins (myself included, I'd like to participate more if given admin/mod status) would definitely help readership IMO.

Also IMO, the front page should be rearranged just slightly (the left hand side, perhaps?) to allow for the forum link/pic to be "in your face"
<MikeK sent along a new graphic... will try to place...>
as well as to move the google search function up to the top and perhaps inside the frame. A little "retouching" of the front page would do wonders,
<Please send along specifics here>
and I could possibly find the time to do so if there is no objection/I am given access.
<Better to lift, change what is there and send along for now>
I'm a huge fan of this website, and I think continued work to the site's navigation and accessibility is a good thing, though obviously easier said than done. While I am on the subject, I would like to retouch the main "branch sites" (the site you're shown when you click "marine and reef aquariums" for instance, to make it a little more visually appealing and easier/faster to find what you're looking for.
<Very good to hear, read... have thought of "taking a class" in web-authoring, the software for such... hiring "someone" for such>
This would be a work in progress, and may take me a few weeks (also working on a 'photosynthesis for the average aquarist' article among my many "let me into med school!
projects") but it's something I'd like to do.
Any thoughts?
<Focus... outline... one at a time... produce! BobF>
Mike Maddox

New bb launch/ed! And soon... CA! 3/17/08
Sabrina... I did put a brief/permanent link on the WWM Homepage, and all left shared borders to the new BB... Would you please draft a small introduction to the service, you as moderator, perhaps some of the folks that are helping... And whatever else you'd like to announce in conjunction?
Neale and Andrew, would you think a bit re something similar?
Thank you all, BobF.

Where did the forums go? WWF 12/27/07
I haven't been on the site for a couple months as I have been busy with other tasks, but I'm just wondering where the forums page (that used to help me a lot) went. Maybe I'm not looking in the correct place, but it used to always be on the left hand side of the web page, and now its disappeared. If you could help me it would be great.
Dave
<Got tired of folks writing us saying that the SysOp (LorenzoG) was remiss in fixing this and that, inability to register, log-on... Bob Fenner>

Forums on WWM... the end of WWF 11/06/07
I tried to contact Mike regarding the site, but each of my emails were returned with a "failure to deliver message." Anyway, the reason I'm writing has to do with the Forums. It seems that option has disappeared from the Homepage. I regularly read and post on the "Anemone/Clownfish" forum.
<Mmm, yes... Zo (the originator of the BB and the "sysop" has flaked out on us entirely. We/WWM have deleted all links to alienate ourselves... Tired of hearing/reading that no one can sign up...>
By the way, thank you so very much for creating this website. There is no telling how many aquarium occupants are alive right now because of information disseminated by you and the WWM Crew.
<Thank you my friend. BobF>
Thank you,
Gary

Re: Forums on WWM 11/07/07
Thank you for your response. I'm sorry things didn't work out with that flake guy--must be from up here in LA,
<! Actually is...>
we definitely have our share. The forums were somewhere I enjoyed going, making suggestions, etc. C'est la vie.
<Great attitude>
Wish all the best and keep up the good work there. Love "The Conscientious Marine Aquarist" too, btw.
Gary
<Thanks. BobF>

Registration, WWF 10/2/07
Hi everyone
this is Chris, ive tried to register to this forum a few times and i always
get an error message. I sent Mr. Fenner an e-mail about this but it was
returned. I would like to help out in anyway i can here at WWM. im very
interested in tridacnid clams and am currently a moderate at Clams Direct
(screen name, Chris&Barb) and a team member at RC (screen name Mbbuna). so
first if there's any way someone can help me register here i would
appreciate it and secondly if i could be of any assistance regarding
tridacnid clams i would be much obliged
<We don't have access to WWF admin... You'll have to keep trying there. BobF>
<Chris... are you offering to help respond here on WWM? Are you willing to fix your English before responding? Have the time? BobF>

Website forum error... we can't fix WWF 10/26/07
Hello. I've been using your website as an invaluable resource, both for fresh and saltwater information. We've recently decided to dive into the saltwater side of things and have learned much from your site. However, we've run across some questions. I'd like to be able to post them on your forum, but I am unable to register for it. I emailed your Lorenzo person and included a screen shot of my problem, but have not received a reply.
<... dismal. I apologize for his laxity... if I can. Mr. G. is going through a "growth process"...>
Here's the problem. When I click, register, the screen where I sign up is missing a field for User Name. The field does not exist, though I can see where it is supposed to go. Can you please tell me if he received my email and if he's working on it? And if not, is there another way I can register, maybe by giving you my info and you sign me up?
Thanks for any help,
Trina Werkema
<I'll cc him here re. Cheers, Bob Fenner>

WWF chat forum - registration – 06/11/07
I've been interested in registering for your chat forum, but when I try to create a user account, the first box (Username) states, "Sorry! Registration is temporarily unavailable." (see below). It looks like the chat forum is operational, so I'm wondering if there is a glitch?
<You are the Nth person to send this along... Have sent repeated notices to the formerly competent Lorenzo Gonzalez... methinks he is "becoming mature"... Coming to grips with the realization of his limitations... Let's hope so. BobF>
Thanks,
Andy
User Edit - (*) denotes required fields
Username*: Sorry! Registration is temporarily unavailable. Password*:
Real Name*: Confirm Password*:
Email: Okay to show real name?
Homepage: Okay to show email address? *
Location: Occupation:
Notes: (Tell us all about yourself! There's no real limit, but please be VERY careful with any HTML!)

New WWF/BB Registration Won't Work 2/2/06
> I have tried to register with two different names and passwords and it returns
> invalid name\password. I know for a fact one of the name\password
> combinations I used could not possibly be used on this site.
> What, if anything have I done wrong?
> Thanks.
> Roger Clark
> <Don't know... will send to Zo... builder/mgr. there. BobF>
Hi Roger!
Make sure "cookies" are enabled in your web-browser, and if you are running a
firewall, that it is also set to permit cookies. This is how the forum
software keeps track of who's logged in and who isn't.
Thanks!
Lorenzo

Where did WWF go? 9/30/05
:(
I'm rather bummed out... I can't get to the WWF homepage or the chatforum no
matter what link I try! Will it be back anytime soon?
Jen
<Mmm, thanks for this notice. Will notify Zo here... the originator, manager of WWF. BobF>

Forum Woes
Dear Don: Just wanted to let you know that I am unable to get into the Forum again. I'm trying to get the names of the meds that Vintage advised me about. I'll keep trying but wanted you to know.
Thanks - Robin (Bellablue)


Buying Pix, WWF
JasonC here, I apologize for the delay in my response. To answer your query,
the medium resolution images are free for personal use and can be had by
simply write clicking the image in the pop-up window and doing a "Save
Picture as..." to save the image to your local disk. The hi-resolution
images are available at a price $10 US per image. If you are interested in
the hi-resolution versions, we can process a credit card order over the
phone and then set the password on the images to give you access to them.
If you have interest in the hi-resolution images, please send me your phone
number and I'll give you a call and we'll get this done.
Cheers,
J --
Dear Robert
I would like to download about 5 of your pics from WetWebFotos so that I can
print them out and put them on my office walls. I tried to download them
from the site but it would not let me. Is there a charge for this kind of
use? If so how much would that be.
Best regards
Jonathan Mills

Chat Room Down?
Hey - Guys!
Is chat room down? keep getting error message -
" Can't contact servlet runner at localhost:8914" -
Please let me know what's happening - I have a dilemma in the general category and wanted to see what was an answer -
It's Not A 911 (LOL)
Thanks - Alane AKA - redlady69
<Thanks for this. I sent a note to Zo this AM re. Bob Fenner>

Re: WWF Forum
Unfortunately, I do not have sufficient permissions on the server that hosts
this forum to fix the problem. Zo is in fact on vacation in Utah and think
will be back next week. If "super" lucky, he will take a peek while he is
there and perhaps fix or give me permissions to fix.
Wish I could help here, but I'm not sure what else I can do.
Cheers,
J --
<Thanks Jas... this is basically the response I have been giving people who
are asking re... man! Bob F>

More Forum Worries - 07/26/2004
Moderator, WWF
I've been trying to get into the web site all day now, (Sunday). I was just wondering if my failure to get on is because of a post that I put in in regards to Sabrina. It wasn't even rude ... I was just stating the facts about a post that was old. I'm thinking it's not because of that, surely. If it is as a result of this post .... it really isn't very professional.
<Mmm, nothing like that>
<<As Bob said, nothing like that at all. You're ALWAYS welcome to your opinion, and to voice your opinion, in the forums. In fact, I daresay I doubt I've even seen the post in question - heh, I can't get to the forums, either :) Don't stress about it, Angie; all is well.>>
I've been trying all day to no avail. If there's a reason other than technical problems on the end of the web site I would appreciate a note or something rather than just nothing.
<<Unfortunately (er, 'fortunately', rather), there's nothing to give you a note about. Please don't worry over this issue; as far as I'm concerned, it's a non-issue. You'll have access to the forums as soon as the rest of us do (sigh!)>
Nichzmom
Angie
<I emailed Zo a couple of times re the WWF server being down... he's on a vacation... and is the only person who has the password (and likely capacity) to fix whatever is wrong. I will cc Sabrina here for more direct input. Wish I knew how to fix WWF. Bob Fenner>
<<Wish I knew, too. Either way, I hope this has at least eased your mind some, Angie. Wishing you well, -Sabrina>>

Forum Downtime - 07/26/2004
Sabrina
<'At's me!>
Just wondering ...I've been trying to post a question on the web site all morning with no avail. Is the web site experiencing problems or have I been banned?
<Indeed the forums are "down". Unfortunately, with 'Zo on vacation, they'll be remaining down until his return. No worries regarding being banned; you'd have to make very many people very, very angry to accomplish that - and somehow, I don't think you'd do that :) WWM/WWF is very much supportive of one's freedom of speech, so you'd really have to work at it to try to get banned, no need to worry over this, m'dear. -Sabrina>

Forum Downtime - II - 07/26/2004
Good to hear!! I really really miss the web site.
<Us, too. No worries, I'm sure the great 'Zo will rescue us upon his return!>
Thank you.
<Any time. Wishing you well, -Sabrina>

Forum Fixed! 7/27/04

Aqua-Zone Magazine Hong Kong
Date: Mon, 12 Jul 2004 06:58:42 -0700 (PDT)
Hello Robert,
<Hello Miki>
This is Miki Chan from Aqua-Zone Magazine. We are publisher and our magazine Aqua-Zone is the only pint magazine in Hong Kong with content about aquaculture. We have just started 2 issue and hope to continuously bring the latest information and new about marine and fresh water fish to the Hong Kong and China readers.
We have visit WeWebFotos via the internet and find all the photos are extremely brilliant and vivid. We wish to get your approval and re-print those photos in our magazine and let our readers to have chance to appreciate them. All printed works, of course, will indicate copyright reserved to WetWebFotos. Please consider our idea and let us know whether this is possible.
Thanks very much for your kind attention and look forward to hearing from you soon.
Regards,
Miki Chan
Aqua-Zone
Editorial Department
Tel: +852 2793 2582
E-mail: miki@aqua-zone.com.hk
Website: www.aqua-zone.com.hk
<Thank you for your interest and kind words. We are a media company in actuality and so we do sell the use/rights to our photo and text work. I am referring you to Jason Chodakowski who handles such sales. Cheers, Bob Fenner>

Pet fish stuff for sale message boards
There used to be a place on your site where people could post on message boards if they had stuff to sell. Do you still have that somewhere? I'm in need of selling my 75gal saltwater tank. I live in Mars PA (actually Steven Pro moved it when I moved 18months ago) I'm just wondering where that spot on your site went or if you know of another site I can post it on? Thanks all
Colleen Cuda
<Mmm,, we do: http://wetwebfotos.com/talk/
Bob Fenner>

Frustrated, but don't think we don't care - WetWebFotos
>Have tried for hours contacting hewleyy pacard, jive forums and you but STILL can't chat on your site!
>>I don't know "who" hewleyy pacard is, but "Jive Forums" is simply a script or language, a type of template used to create the forums. You can contact them, and they can't do a thing about accessibility to the site. Most likely a server issue, however, once I pulled my pass out of my own memory banks I'm in just fine.
>Getting about half upset and was wondering if anyone cares enough to help me out.
>>We can only do so much, especially when, chances are, the servers are likely very remotely located. Not all that influences the world wide web is under our control my friend.
>I have ten years reefing experience and many insightful responses, and a genuine desire to help others in this hobby to make it work but am stumped by this problem/situation.
SOMEONE PLEASE HELP ME!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
>>Absolutely no need to yell, that won't help a thing. Even if NOT logged in, I'm sure that you can see who's who in the forums, and expect that by contacting Lorenzo Gonzalez or Ananda Stevens (both of whom most likely are well-aware of the problem) you may be able to find an answer, if not a release. Participation IS desired, I'm sure. Ultimately, however, I personally cannot help you out. Even if I had direct access to the server, I may or may not know what the problem is, or even if it is with the server itself, many, many possibilities here. If it helps, know that you're not the only person who's had a problem in the last 24 hours, and if you can, please be patient. Marina

Posting photos on WetWeb forums user pages
Hi, How do I post photos so they are linked to my name? Pufferpunk
<Click on your user name, and you should get to your user page... you should see "WWM User" and your user name, then "main user menu" and "edit". Click the edit link, scroll down the page, and fill in the blanks... --Ananda>-

Forum Signup Problems -
Hello,
I've tried registering to the marine message board but it won't allow me to do so. After I enter all my info it takes me to "page unavailable" with a link to WetWebFotos. Are you experiencing problems with new signups. <Yes, we are aware of this problem and working on a solution.>
Thank you, Rob
<And thank you. Cheers, J -- >

- Forum Problems -
Hi there, I have tried to sign up become a user so that I could post a question on your forum, but for some reason I can't. I keep getting the blank page which says the web page I am trying to reach is unavailable/been moved etc... Anyway, I need help... can I ask you a fish question directly, or can you help me get to the page where I can get registered???
<We are aware of the problems with signing up on the forums and they are being worked on post-haste. You can absolutely send your question in here, we'd be happy to answer it.>
Thanks in advance for your speedy reply! Jody
<Cheers, J -- >

Your Web Site (actually the WWF chatforum)
There is no need to reply to this e-mail as it will be my last contact with wetwebmedia.com. Several weeks ago I became disappointed with the tone, tenor and personalities of several individuals administering the forum pages. I chose to look for another site that is more comfortable and have, in fact, found two. I wanted to let you know that the forum participants were, in relative terms, less that informative/helpful and were in fact spiteful in several instances. This may be whining on my part and if it is construed as such, then so be it, but it cost wetwebmedia.com and it's sponsors three users. It also prompted the return of the most recent Fenner book.
I would like to thank you for your time and attention.
Regards,
Arthur Murton
<Thank you for your consideration in taking the time to compose and send the above input. It is regrettable that the WWM chatforum has offended you. Jason.C is sending your note along to all the volunteer administrators and the common progenitor, Lorenzo, for contemplation. Personally, I have an abiding regard for the "service-orientation" of such BB's... and have been leery of being associated with same for the very tendency toward rancor and abuse you list. We are, after all, fellow hobbyists in a common bond of sharing, aiding each other... there is a "central tendency" I would remind all (borrowed from the "doctrine of the mean", Confucius) that what we utter/state should be accurate, significant and meaningful. I don't see where spite, meanness, derisiveness, cost to intended "audience/s" fits in here. Again, my apologies for the misbehavior of others. Bob Fenner>

Re: Your Web Site
To all,
This would be a bit more helpful if the actual..."culprits"(?) could be identified, and what was written that this person found so objectionable. As I'm sure many have noticed, I personally haven't been able to spend much time actually on-site, so to speak. However, I have noticed that, indeed, there is some truth to these assertions. It won't be helpful to point fingers, but it *would* be helpful to contact them privately (if we've been allowed that possibility via email) and simply express the wish to continue a positive and caring net-community.
I think that this problem can possibly be addressed in such a manner as to help foster an atmosphere that is less "possessive" (we can include the adjectives that Mr. Murton has used) and steer the users towards being more helpful, as evidenced by particular members (Freckleface and Ananda are two who immediately come to mind). I don't think we'll be able to get this person (or the other two) back "into the fold", but we most certainly *can* prevent this in future. This might be done by posting a thread, possibly in the Bar & Grill, speaking to what our goals are, and why this site exists at all.
As some may (or may not) have noticed, I have been working very hard to steer folks to the site, as well as to the other site I am now associated with. I firmly believe this is of positive benefits for all involved, *including* the hobbyists. I hadn't thought to keep any numbers, but I know that each week my efforts have garnered positive results.
I'm very sorry to read this, but I'm very glad it's been passed on (and I'd *really* like to know what sites this person found that he finds to be so much better).
Marina
<Well-stated Marina. Thank you. Bob>

Image for Saltcreek
Becky, Pam, I am responding to Chris Turk's request re an image he says Saltcreek is looking to place in their trade show booth. Chris didn't say for certain what it was you were actually looking for... something with fishes, the reef... Do you have a spatial format (vertical, landscape) or colors, texture in mind? Some "dead space" for inserting a label? Please find attached a few Red Sea images to help with sorting out what we may have that you can make use of.
Bob Fenner, WetWebMedia, WetWebFotos.com

Re: copyright infringement?
Hey bob! I was researching a fish I just bought, and went to flying fish to look for basic info, and I found a pic.
http://www.ffexpress.com/images/fish/gobies/10632.jpg
now, on this page:
http://www.wetwebmedia.com/shrimpgobies.htm
there is the exact same pic. Flying fish claims ownership of the pic, but I am kind of skeptical. Who exactly does the pic belong to?
<Mmm, me. I/we sell rights to the use of image work... One of the ways we pay the bills. Thank you for the notice. Bob Fenner>

Re: quick question about images
Mr. Fenner,
<Howdy>
Thank you for taking a moment to look at my email and answer a question for me.
At the suggestion of a fellow aquarist I'm contacting you to ask for some advice and possible favor. The marine fish store I work for is having me design them a website to sell livestock and drygoods online and I'm having a problem finding good quality images of fish, corals, and inverts and my friend thought you could help me.
<Yes>
He said a lot of the e-tailers seem to use images that are copywritten by you, and I wanted to find out if there was a way that I could use some of your images. We could of course pay you a royalty or work out another arrangement, such placing links to your books or website on our homepage for you.
<We do sell use of images (about ten dollars per in quantity) for website use>
The site is in it's final phase of development and this is one of the last things that we have holding up our deployment. If we can work something out that would be great, and I would appreciate it greatly.
Thank you for your time and consideration.
Guy Wozniak
<Thank you for your interest. Do make it known what you're looking for especially. Bob Fenner>

Archive of aquaristic photos
Hippocampus
Bildarchiv
Dear Sirs and Ladies,
if you need some aquaristic photos for your productions, I would like to invite you to visit our Homepage under :
www.Hippocampus-Bildarchiv.de!
With more than 30 000 pictures of renowned authors, we offer you one of the largest aquaristic archives of this world.
Our pictures are stored as prints, negatives and slides. In addition we can offer them in digital form too.
You can search through our online archive selecting the coloured data files. To avoid longer download times, you find JPEG pictures of low resolution.
Digital pictures can be obtained in all standard formats and desired resolutions. Our standard format is a PICT data file with 3072x2048 pixels and a size about 17 MB. We can deliver our pictures by normal mail, courier service or e-mail.
We would be pleased, if you were interested in our archive.
We hope you'll find exactly what you are looking for,
Happy surfing
Your HIPPOCAMPUS Bildarchiv team

- Server not Serving -
Hi guys,
<Hello, JasonC here...>
Sorry to be a pain, I have been trying for the last two days to get to wetwebfotos.com but each time I try I get a 504 Gateway Timeout message. I can access other sites, Like WWM no problem, but cannot get to WetWebFotos.
I just wanted to know if it is a problem your side, or a problem on mine? <Yes, there is a problem on our end. The server which hosts the WetWebFotos and the adjoining forum is down at the moment and being worked on. The WetWebMedia server is not the same machine, so not affected by this outage. Will hopefully be back online soon.>
Many thanks for your time
Lee - Durban South Africa
<Cheers, J -- >

Re: WWF, reporting loops, things between cracks (Connie.C where are you?)
Erf. I don't recognize this. What do you want me to do with Constance? I'm writing/converting (from WWFotos code) an online photography database/shopping
system to do what you originally wanted with WWFotos - but it's a few weeks off.
<Wow, WOW! Yay! Can't wait... wait, I guess I can, will have to... I can contact her (yikes, actually, will have to wait, see if she re-contacts us... tell her of your intention, time-frame, ask if she wants to wait, or send scans over the net or USPO... Bob F, excited>
In the meantime - I take it you want me to handle Connie's requests somehow?

Subject: Re: Pictures
Date: Fri, 4 Oct 2002 08:55:52 -0700
Dear Bob & Lorenzo:
Please let me know what's happening re pics mentioned below.
<Ahh, good to hear back from you. If you read through the Daily FAQs: http://www.wetwebmedia.com/daily_faqs.htm you'll see a note addressed to you re this issue. Zo didn't get my msg. re arranging somehow to provide you (automated) with the images... but you've stirred us on to making this possibility, eventuality so! In the meanwhile, how large do you want, need these pix? Will either send along on the net (up to hundreds of kilobytes per) or re-scan, burn on a CD and mail to you. Make your desires known. Bob Fenner>
My thanks to you.
Connie Cavan

Re: Pictures
Dear Bob:
Wow! You must have been sitting on top of your computer - I got your
clownfish message too!
<Nah, just in front... as usual!>
Thanks so much. Will get a dither fish when my
other fish is out of quarantine.
<Sounds good>
About the pictures. Zo could send me a .jpg image or my husband says he has
a zip drive he'll attach to my computer and you can send that way. The
first I know works, the second way I'm not positive. an 8 x 10" size would
be great.
<Zo is this possible on your end... or should I re-scan to bigger than 2.3 megs?>
Until you get something worked out financially, I will make
another contribution to your general fund on your website of $10/per.
<Okay>
How
does that sound, Bob & Lo? Please don't got to all the trouble of burning a
CD, etc., I think Zo can get them to me. The other image he sent was
beautiful and big.
<Zoster? Bob F>
As ever,
Connie

Pictures
Dear Bob:
<Hi Constance>
I would like to purchase the following picture from you. It is in the tang section of WetWebFotos.com, but does not say if it can be downloaded or not.
<Geez, I don't know how to "do this"... let's ask Zo... otherwise, I'll send you large enough scans over the Net, or snail mail, or?>
It is the Acanthurus triostegus on the first line of The God, The Bad and The Unknown. You show it again later. I would like to make a painting of it.
Also, still under genus Acanthurus you have two pictures of the same fish Acanthurus dussumieri. Eye stripe. The picture on the right is gorgeous and I would like to paint that as well.
Please let me know how I go about paying for and receiving these two pictures and if they are for sale, Zo notwithstanding. You have put a lot of yourself into many of these pictures and I am duly impressed.
Thanks for your help,
<Zo-ster? Bob F>
Your fan,
Connie Cavan

The location of Cover Submissions on WWM
David, haven't forgotten those thumbnails for your perusal for TFH. Pls see here:
http://www.wetwebmedia.com/coverimages.htm
storage on WWM site for just this purpose... these are only the portraits thus far scanned from two weeks back Cozumel trip.
Many more to come. Bob Fenner

Re: a certain picture
I'm sorry, Connie, I'm afraid I don't remember which fish was sent out on
Thursday, and the old files have been deleted from the server, so I can't just
look it up. Bob, if you remember, I can send her the daily-pic image again - I
just don't know what it was.
<... do have the name (from the rotating archived WWM saves... It was/is Amblycirrhites pinos COZ2... from Cozumel... a Hawkfish species found in... the Virgin Islands! Bob F>
-Zo
> Dear Lorenzo & Bob:
> I would like to access the picture that was used on Thursday for the
> desktop so I can paint it. It looked sort of like a fancy bass, golden in
> color with a great background. How can I do this. Lorenzo, I would be
> happy to buy anything I use. I am not trying to freeload, I swear.
> Connie Cavan

RE: Can't wait to get to the Coz corals!
You know... makes me want to pick up a macro rig like that... just seems too
easy to put that framer down... Di takes some really nice - and I mean
really nice shots with that thing. Those previous ones of the feather
dusters were just amazingly detailed...
<Agreed... the Nikon with framers set-up is a very sweet tool... does have that small focal plane depth limitation... but that's what the housed 35 mm with tele-macro, diopters, magnifiers is for! Man, more gear!>
Anyway - go get an ice-cream bar - I'm on my way to the grocery to get
ingredients for the gazpacho and etc... speaking of which - got any recipes
for mangos?
<Do I!? Yes... a fave tropical fruit... Umm, I see you growing and consuming them in the tropics in the not-too-distant future>
They had them buy two, get three free last week - probably won't
be there this week, but... if they are, I might have five mangos looking for
a home...
<Can peel and eat... or make fab mango chutneys... and how 'bout a mango chicken marinade (YUM!) that you can/should oven-bake? Squeeze a lime over (or other citrus if not avail.), you'll see. B>
J --

Your photographs of fish
Dear Robert:
I am an artist and avid fish freak.
<A great combo.>
I just signed a contract with a gallery in St. Thomas for a year as their abstract artist.
<I'll be somethinged! We're headed out to St. Thomas in November...>
Have just started painting fish, and it's only the beginning. I am sending them earlier work, but when I go there in January will bring fish paintings.
I need your permission, I think or feel, to paint from some of your marvelous photographs. If I use any of them I would be more than happy to attribute the painting to your photograph on the back of the painting.
<You're very welcome to their use. Please make it known if there are particular images, species, studies you'd like more scans of... there are many... that aren't on our sites>
I need your input, please let me know how you feel about this. Your book has been my bible, by the way.
Best wishes
Connie
<Hope to meet you in the Virgin Islands later this year. Bob Fenner>

Downloading photos from WWFotos
> Also, I registered but was not recognized and could not download
> one of Bob's fabulous photos.
Connie, passwords to download the hi-resolution images on WetWebFotos are
available individually upon request to non-profit/educational agencies, and
publishers who have negotiated a license with the photographer. They are not
intended for the "community users".
Best Regards, and good luck with the clowns (you need about 400 gallons worth
of territory to keep both pairs in the same aquarium) -Lorenzo
<Hey Zo... just got talked to by Denny Crews of Omega Sea for a half hour... he's looking to buy an image of size (maybe soft coral) for new marine product, packaging coming up... am having to send him all over WWM and then make thumbnails... Wish I could send him, everyone to WWF! Bob>

Re: Downloading photos from WWFotos
> <Hey Zo... just got talked to by Denny Crews of Omega Sea for a half
> hour... he's looking to buy an image of size (maybe soft coral) for new
> marine product, packaging coming up... am having to send him all over WWM
> and then make thumbnails... Wish I could send him, everyone to WWF! Bob>
Yes, a real shame you never explored WWF. For example:
<Oh yes I have... Denny is emailing you re>
http://wetwebfotos.com/Home?actionRequest=mediaSearchByKeywords&ID=Alcyonacea
http://wetwebfotos.com/Home?actionRequest=mediaSearchByKeywords&ID=Scleractinia
Discovered by typing in the keyword in the 'Quick Search' box... he could just
tell you the filename, if he finds one he likes... sure, it's not a credit card
and a download, but it beats the hell out of browsing through WWM.
-Zo
<Okay... we'll see... both beat the heck out of my having to scan, re-scan, send CD's... Bob F>

Omega pix
I think this shot is actually on 35MM - Bob?
<It's a 2.25 digital pic from Fiji... Taveuni earlier this year>
It doesn't mention LL in the
filename, but it also kinda has that digital "look". What is it?
<You're right... digital>
It might be
perfect for their needs... if it can be rescanned to hires.
<How large do you think this can be expanded before it looks pixelated? Bob>
-Zo

Re: Pictures to buy
Denny! That's pretty BIG. To print at 12x18" you'll need new scans from the
original slides, only available from Bob. Unfortunately, the LL pics were shot
on an older digital, and the TIFFs are only about 2.15MB (about 1000x800
pixels) so are pretty much useless at anything bigger than about 4x6 inches.
<Wowzah... I endorse such pix up to 8 1/2 by 11" for verticals... am way off>
Bob leaves for Indonesia on Monday - you'll have to get this worked out with
him ASAP! Any of the other pics (numbered, on WWF) he can pull from the
cabinets and rescan. (Bob, off the top of my head, for 12x18" prints, about 20-
30MB is right, with 15MB the minimum. Aim for a -minimum- of 200ppi at the
final print size.)
<Okay... can do very large scans... of up to 4000 dpi... Bob F>
Regards!
Lorenzo
> Lorenzo,
> Thanks for the e-mail. I am still looking at pictures on the Web site, but
> the one I really like is the picture by Laura L. (Soft Corals FJLL). Did I
> understand you had a tiff of this picture ?. If so would that work for an
> ad or package approximately 12" by 18" ?. If you could let me know soon I
> would really appreciate it. Unfortunately, and as usual, I am in emergency
> mode and need something by today.
> Thanks - Denny

Re: pictures to buy
Denny,
I've set the password on all of those so you can download them right away. Once
you've fiddled around with them and hopefully found one you can use, you can
negotiate the usage license with Bob. He can also scan them again at a higher
resolution if necessary. (quick-elbow-to-Bob's-ribcage)
<Yowch!>
The jpeg's you sent me from the Daily Image mail outs - I only have the JPEGs,
at the same size as I sent out. If you decide you want one of those, perhaps
Bob can dig up a bigger one for you. Worth noting, "Soft Corals FJ LL 5.jpg"
was shot by somebody else, and I believe "Dendros FJ.jpg" is only available in
a fairly low resolution (digital camera) so may not be too useful.

> 3030 Dendro's
> 3032 "
> 3033 "
> 3186 Acropora
> 3626 Pocillopora
If you go to "Photography/Video" on WetWebFotos.com there is a special search box that let's you punch in the ID# and jump straight to the photo.
<Some fun now!>
As for "having as much fun as Bob does" - I'm working on that one myself,
<Yay! 'Bout time>
and
when I figure it out, I'm going to make a zillion dollars selling instructional
cassettes on late-night infomercials... you can buy the COMPLETE SET then, I'll
even cut you a special break, if you call within the next 10 minutes... ;-)
<Can I be three to four inches (bigger) by morning? Bob F>

Re: Daily pix daily
Gorgeous! I hope you'll start scanning at a slightly higher resolution, say
600ppi, for the new Travel & Wildlife photo library site - coming soon to a
world wide web near you.
<Yikes... more detail pls... what output size (inches or cm.), what saving fmt... no, let me guess... the new zop.fmt.
Really, when, how big, what sort? Bob>
-ZoPhotos

Re: Mo pix ala COZ
Boy oh Bob, I'm sure enjoying the Coz pics! Are those a couple of different
shrimp in the Bartholomea? One looks "sexy" - the other two look like miniature
Lysmata... those are the Alpheus?
<Man! You have great vision! Yes to both... Periclimenes yucatanicus on the barber pole antenna/e... and Alpheus sp. on the two in the foregd. Bob F>

Fw: Daily Pic from WWM
Date: Fri, 30 Aug 2002 12:02:27 -0400
Bob,
Lorenzo thought that you might have a 35mm picture of this one.
Is this the case and can this be one we could use ?
<Please check your email... I responded to his query re the same earlier this AM... we have this only as a tiff of 2.25 megs... digital... Dendros off Taveuni, FJ. Bob>
Thanks - Denny
Subject: Daily Pic from WWM
> Dendronephthya sp. - The outrageous colors of a soft coral party in Fiji.
Might be too distracting as a desktop background, for the
productivity-minded folk in the audience...
<< DendrosFJ.jpg >>

Fw: Your photographs of fish
DEAR Bob:
Thank you for your kind note. I cannot access your pics, however, as your website will not recognize my code name: farleysmom.
<Mmm, will send this note along to Zo, Jas.C who ARE WWF... they will likely be diving in St. Thomas... so you can hold your thumb over their snorkels if they don't come fwd... or pour beer into them... more to their liking>
Would you please ask someone to fix it so that I can do my artistic thing???? Thank you so much.
The gallery in St. Thomas is called The Ninth Life - sounds interesting and I think it's new. I know it's not downtown but I hear from other artists that they sell, which is what I am interested in.
Best regards,
Connie Cavan
<Bob Fenner, WetWebMedia.com>

Subject: Your photographs of fish
Dear Robert:
I am an artist and avid fish freak. I just signed a contract with a gallery in St. Thomas for a year as their abstract artist. Have just started painting fish, and it's only the beginning. I am sending them earlier work, but when I go there in January will bring fish paintings.
I need your permission, I think or feel, to paint from some of your marvelous photographs. If I use any of them I would be more than happy to attribute the painting to your photograph on the back of the painting.
I need your input, please let me know how you feel about this. Your book has been my bible, by the way.
Best wishes
Connie

Re: Fw: Your photographs of fish
Bob, are you telling me to give Constance a password for full access to
download any/all of the high-res images on WWF?
<No Zo. I hope to be clear/er... no one other than our crew should have access even to my crummy scan efforts... of size... Was her concern that she couldn't work from smaller sizes? I thought we were "just" talking being able to download the few kilobyte size images>
This is not current practice -
a user's normal password (the one she's already got) just authenticates them to
their settings, forum, etc. I thought I already replied to Constance, along
these same lines - ? Whatever you want me to do, kein Probleme, mein Freund,
just say the word! ANYBODY can access the previews, and easily save them to
local disk, like any other image on the WWW.
<Sounds like you're on it>
OT - Jason - Bob said to Constance that you and I will "likely be diving in St.
Thomas" what the hell is he talking about? Do you guys know something I don't?
<The trip in November... please see the... yikes, unlinked, unsearchable admin subweb for crew travel plans (suggest perusing the Nav. View). It's a done deal in terms of Di and I... hotel already pd. for... hope you can make it. Bob>
-Zo

Potential sponsor question
How should we respond to this request for more information on sponsoring the WetWebFotos website. Is WetWebFotos part of Wetwebmedia or is it it's own entity?
<A little of both. Zo?>
Hi, could you give me more information about sponsoring wetwebfotos.com? I'm representing That Coral Place, and have been posting on your boards for quite some time now. Thx in advance, Greg++++++++++++++++++++++
Mike

Re: Daily e-pix send out, Coz trip pix
> Zo, did you receive my query re the daily pix send outs?
Nope. Did you send to this email addy?
<Am getting on so much (in years, beers) that I don't/can't recall. Is this still Zo? Sigh>
> Are you sending them still?
I broke the software trying to fix the problems with AOL and Mac users. I'll
probably just go back to the flaky version for now, and send those poor souls
there pic-fix separately, as before. Priorities - ah well. Eventually I'll
have time to tinker with the mailer again. One day.
<Yowzah! Is there some software product we can buy that might "do" all this? Am still amazed at the webshots.com folks here in town (selling to Excite@home for 82 mil., then buying the biz back for 2 mil. a couple years later)... is what they have so hard for us to emulate?>
> Are you interested in seeing/getting pix from last weeks trip?
Hell yes! Especially those mysterious Hippos I never saw!
<Me too... am literally going blind trying to sort through the pix... in a hurry to put a slide show tog. for tonight>
Tim and I are scheming madly re: where we can dive next and how soon we can get
there...
<Wish you could make it to the KBR/Sulawesi go... it's a real bargain, and being right on the Wallace Line an incredible wealth of biodiversity and abundance... Perhaps some of the other upcoming trips?
Bob>
Ciao,
Zo

admins only
Hi,
Some of you will recognize me but a lot of you probably will not.
Over the last 6 months of having my own Message Board I have noticed that
there are problem members on most Boards.
I thought it would be a handy addition to have one board on the net that we
could all go to and inform each other of ongoing problems so others would be
prepared.
A list of Banned IP’s and Reasons.
Technical Issues.
Compare Boards.
Just chill out and have a chat with other people in the same situation.
Please do not divulge this address to any other person (unless they are
admins of other sites) so we can keep the board 100% private.
<Interesting possibilities... will circ amongst our crew. Bob Fenner, WetWebMedia.com>
Clothahump
http://www.eheim-uk.com/adminsonly/phpBB2/index.php

help with username/registration
hello bob,
this is marina. I am having a problem logging back in
to the forums. I registered yesterday (this looks
like a real good place to quickly find extensive
information on many subjects aquatic), with no
problems. but today I tried to login and got the
"invalid username or password" message. I'd like to
keep the username, but can't re-register with it,
apparently not case-sensitive.
thanks in advance,
marina
<Hmm, our chatforum? http://wetwebfotos.com/talk/
You don't have to log in... I frequently just browse... or you can re-sign up... I'll send this msg. off to Zo, the fellow who produced the software, keeps the BB going. Have you looked over our root web: http://www.wetwebmedia.com/
Bob Fenner>

Time to switch to PWM not WWM!
http://www.underwaterphotography.com/Shopping/Subscribe.asp
Sixty nine dude! 69 bucks a year to subscribe to U/W photographer? Say what? What vegetable truck mustn't I fell offa?
Bob F

Re: Time to switch to PWM not WWM!
Check out their ad spiel-->
http://www.underwaterphotography.com/Advertise/Default.asp
Mike
<Winner... spiel needs some-Anglish work... but says what it does well. Bob F>

WWF, moolah, my pal Zo
http://www.larrysizemore.com/gallery/tnli.htm
When can we have this capability, huh, huh, Zo?
Bob F

RE: WWF, moolah, my pal Zo
By the time you get back from Africa.
Of course, I hope we won't be using that ridiculous, manual hack, PayPal, that he's got setup...
<No, the boot to PayPal or otherwise... Let's go! Bob F!>
-Zo

Re: Scanner
> <would you rather wait till after the next batch (IZoo, Red
> Sea) images are run-through? >
Hmm. When is that, sometime in June?
<Yes... if I hustle!>
I guess it doesn't matter to me. Now or
later, whatever. Maybe if we wait until after the RedSea trip, the Sales
portion of things will be operative by then,
<Yes, Di said she thought all you needed to do was "add the shopping cart"...>
and we can roll it out with a
beautiful new batch of photos. So I guess that would be okay.
<The sooner the better. Pete, Di and I were chatting about your software today. Will cc them... Let's go big boy! Bob F>
-Zo

Re: Picture
Hello again!
Thank you for the fast reply.
I will link my costumer to your site.
<And ours to yours>
I think it would be pretty good anyway, and I wouldn't need to search after picture of the fish and corals I'm writing about. (It would save me a lot of time, never thought it took so much job, to set up a homepage).
Anyway, maybe I have to start studying English again, but did you mean that you sell image to company?
<Yes, exactly>
If so, I would be interest of buying some in time. Right now, my budget can't afford to much and the Swedish crown, now called pesetas by our Norwegian neighbor, ain't worth much.

Finally, about the filtration, I think I know, from your article, how it should look like, but, if you should have some graphics "laying around", I would be very thankful if you could send some by mail or fax.
Best regards
Patrik Karlsson
Email:PKarl45@hotmail.com
<Will put on my ever-growing list of projects. Be chatting. Bob Fenner>

Reply to Bob Goemans... in stereo
Hi Bob,
<Cheers, Bob G... Anthony Calfo in your service while our good friend Bob F is traveling. His e-mail access is sporadic so I thought to chime in and let you know that you are not forgotten <smile>.>
I have not received 'any' new mail from you since your response noting your geekmo was contacted about problems with some of your files. Could someone update me as I miss your photos and comments. Thanks, Bob Goemans

Hi Bob,
I have not received 'any' new mail from you since your response noting your geekmo was contacted about problems with some of your files. Could someone update me as I miss your photos and comments.
Thanks, Bob Goemans
<Bob is off in Australia right not, but I will CC this reply to Zo who should be able to correct the problem. -Steven Pro>

Re: Mo' pix
This batch of pics is just incredible - pretty different from the bulk of
what's loaded on WWFotos.
<Am trying to send you rough material that you can/will make into desktop "natural art"... Much of what we have already are relatively simple two-dimensional "identification" pix... what they were selected for/to be>
When do I get the Real Thing, to upload to the
system? (Hmm, the Real Thing is swimming off Queensland, I suppose!)
<Agreed on the latter. A very good question in many ways, levels... I/we really need help... with doing scans and all else that goes with image work on WWM/WWF... or to somehow change my "lifestyle" (have no style, really)... give up sleeping, going pottie (a fave activity, maybe I could arrange another computer outfit in the toytoy...) to get more time to put into our efforts... There really is a need to (re)prioritize much of my life (sigh)... as there just really is getting to be no "extra" or "disposable" temporal resource>
Coming soon: Photography on the Web, for Real People - WWFotos is growing -
perhaps even spawning...
<Mmm, shedding our gametes out into the environment? Doesn't sound bad. Bob>
-Zo

Picture Use for Aquarium Service Business in Sweden
Hello!
My name is Patrik, and Im from Sweden.
I have I question to you regarding the pictures on your site. But first, I just have to say, what a great site you have done!
<Thank you my friend>
Right now, Im restarting my aquarium business again, and your articles about central filtration, has helped me a lot. But it would helped me much more if you could put up some diagraph (I now, not correct spelled, hope you understand anyway).

Now, back to the question. I am having big problem to find any good picture of marine fish and corals, to put up on me homepage.
So, I wonder if I could take some of yours, until I have taken my own? Or, if I just could link to your site?
<The link approach is best at this time. We actually make a good part of our revenue from supplying image-work to commercial interests>
The problem with just linking the customer to you page, would be the language as some of them is having problem with "technical" English.
Best regards
Patrik Karlsson,
email:PKarl45@hotmail.com
<Please detail what sorts of images you are looking for. We can likely make an arrangement. Bob Fenner>

daily images
I need some new source, man! Send me the goods!
<You got it bud whale oh! Will send a few as I scan 'em... had a daydream about you and this very issue while driving tonight... Sigh, I used to go on about wimmen and money, oh well>
I've got one lined up for tomorrow, but that's about it (well, I've got WWFotos
at my disposal, true...)
-Zo
<Will entertain m'self and you by sending a few along as I make'm. Bug ya soon. Bob>

WWM, WWF, WWWhatthe?
Pete: Bob, did you realize there is no link, announcement on the WWM Homepage re WWF?
Bob: Oh, I'm sure there must be. I'll check when we're back from the land down under.
Bob: Oops! I'll lift Zo's hail and taksan hyaku!
Please see here:
http://www.wetwebmedia.com/

RE: WWM Login announcement
Bob,
I can do the images between 6-10am EST each day. Is that too large a window? I guess that's the problem with 'flextime' in the workplace! Let me know what you come up with.
-Zo
<Mmm, this should work out fine... 7:00 PST... I'll sleep in, drink more Java (west of where?). How/should I send you a bunch of the new pix from Aus? Bob F>

new pix, scanner
> < How/should I send you a bunch of the new pix from Aus? >
Yeah. Actually, you should send me the whole disk again, and I'll manage
the 'what's new' procedure, and get "everything since January", or whenever
you last sent me the disk, uploaded to WetWebFotos.
<Will do so, sending when (shudder...) the whole process of sorting, scanning et al. is done for the couple of k images are done... including seeing what is already scanned, on WWM...>
If, as a stopgap, you just want to email me a few photos for daily pics,
that's okay too.
<Will do so... the interaction with you will be greatly cheering>
Christine was wondering about borrowing the old HP slide scanner, for a bunch
of B&W negatives she just processed. She finally cleared out and developed
some 15 or so rolls that had been hibernating in the refrigerator. What say
you?
<Will send it, cords, software, what have you along tomorrow, along with some Aqua-C skimmers and pumps to Jason.C...>
-Zo
<What is a/the word re the "for sale" status-potential of pix on WWF? Any likelihood of having some such completed animal anytime soon? Bob F>

Re: new pix, scanner
<What is a/the word re the "for sale" status-potential of pix on WWF? Any
> likelihood of having some such completed animal anytime soon? Bob F>
I'd like to chat with you on the phone regarding that 'feature', and what
really needs done, what really doesn't, and what you'd like to be able to do
first.
<Okay. Are you available now? Later? Tomorrow? Number to call? Oh see it below.>
Aside from the Image sales, WWF is up and running like a champ, and I keep
getting more ideas to improve it.
<Have looked, it's a winner thus far>
However, I'm trying to convince myself to
forget all that - and build the photography 'sales' functionality as a semi-
integrated 'adjunct' and get the ball rolling ASAP. ... bah - heck with this
email biz. Let's chat. Give me a ring?
248-601-2566 (home)
-Zo
<Got Di's free long distance phone ready to go. Bob F>

Hard Disk Woes
You had a problem formatting the 40GB disk?
Ughh.
<It's the same problem... failed commands at some point, I've had from day one with the ding dang thang... should've ret'd it pronto. Any who, am sending you the Acom unit with the pix on it instead>
Do you still have purchase information/receipt for it? If not, Maxtor is quite famous for an excellent warranty policy, they will replace based on serialnum/mfg date, and will even advance a disk, with a CC#, charge contingent upon timely return of the dead one.
<Okay... will... oh, I see, you have more posted below>
Barring all that, I'm sure only the disk itself is damaged, and the case and firewire electronics are worth almost $100. The disk itself can be replaced by any generic IDE/ATA hard disk.
<Mmm, don't know about all this... but bet you, Miguel do>
Let me know, and do have a safe and enjoyable trip/adventure...
-Zo
<Will do so... be back soon with pix, stories. Bob F>

Florida Aquarium
I was reading your May2001 article in Aquarium on jacks. I noticed the photo of the permit was taken at "Florida Aquarium, Miami". The Florida Aquarium is in Tampa. The Miami Seaquarium is in Miami. Which is it?
<Ah, thanks for this clarification. The Miami location. Bob Fenner, who must devise a better system of labeling his slides, scans.>
Kevin

We Want a Web Site like You!
<<Hey, Bob's not here, Man. He's away diving until 12/7. JasonC here answering WWM mail.>>
HEY BOB, HOW'S IT GOIN? I DON'T KNOW IF YOU REMEMBER ME
OR NOT, MY NAME IS ANTHONY AND I WORK AT THE FISH DOCTORS IN
YPSILANTI MICHIGAN (I WENT OUT WITH YOU AND TOM ONE NIGHT TO
CHECK OUT SOME TANKS). ANYWAYS, TOM PUT ME IN CHARGE OF OUR
WEB SITE AND I WAS WONDERING IF YOU COULD GIVE ME SOME HELP
FINDING NICE QUALITY PICTURES TO PUT ON IT. ALL OF THE GOOD
PICS THAT I HAVE FOUND BELONG TO SOMEONE ELSE AND IM WORKING
ON A LIMITED BUDGET. WE HAVE A FEW PICS THAT WE HAVE TAKEN
HERE AT THE STORE BUT WE NEED A LOT MORE. WE ARE WANTING TO
HAVE AN EXTENSIVE LIST OF FISH THAT PEOPLE CAN CLICK ON AND
BRING UP A PIC OF THAT FISH. IF YOU KNOW OF ANYPLACE THAT
WOULD HAVE SOME PICS THAT THEY WOULDN'T MIND LETTING US USE
COULD YOU LET ME KNOW? WE WOULD REALLY APPRECIATE IT, OUR
WEBSITE REALLY NEEDS SOME HELP! MY E-MAIL ADDRESS IS
DRAVEN@PROVIDENET.COM, MY HOME PHONE # IS (734)481-8121 OR
YOU CAN CALL ME HERE AT THE STORE (734)434-1030. THANKS
A LOT
<<Have forwarded this email to Mike K. who is the WetWebMedia webmaster. He'll be able to answer some of these queries in Bob's absence. As for Bob - give him the weekend to recuperate and you should be able to tag him for some pictures. Cheers, J -- >>
ANTHONY
AKA "THE A-TRAIN"

A Buddy Album for you, courtesy of AOL's "You've Got Pictures"
<The one Condy is very nice... but I don't "use" Cookies... so another lost tool and customer to AOL. Bob Fenner>

re: ok.. lets try this again I guess
Are you trying to say that you couldn't see the pictures or what?

I don't quite get what you mean. anyway I will attach the pictures.
Also, I wasn't trying to make you a customer of AOL I just thought it would
be easier/faster for you. I hope the download doesn't take too long.
Sorry...
any assurance of type would be appreciated...
Thanks,
Greg
<Very nice anemone pix. Thank you. Bob Fenner>

RE: Itinerary Update? (and video help)
Bob,
I really want to take Bro Edward with - he can't find sufficient funds, and is hocking off his Olympic Performer medallions on Ebay to raise moolah - but wants/offered to edit WWM videos to earn some modicum of sponsorship.
<A definite possibility. Turns out the getting there (Germany and back esp.) legs are much cheaper than thought/planned... and stay gets cheaper per person with N increasing... and the videos are a very important part (at least of my dreams) of WWM content... and beyond>
Just to the Germany leg, maybe stay with friends in Germany while we're in the RS - what say you?

Also, the weekend in San Diego, editing mucho video, fixing eyes, etc, is all still potential...
<Is this a question or expository stmt.? At any, all lengths, let's schedule all... Have you had your ophthalmologist contact Peeps? Sent along your latest and greatest exam stuff? Pls do so, contact Di re the coming, staying part for you, your bro, and let's get on with life! Bob F>
-Zoi

videotapes to Edwardo
Fellas,
How 'bout sending a tape or two off to Edward for editing?
<Pete, send them all, or at least all of Di and mine on whatever format. Pls give the bill for freight to me. Bob F>
Edward XXXX
-ZoRoastrian

RE: video editing
Right - I'm guessing we just want short (1-2 minute) 'flics' that are a summary/overview of the best footage from one tape or one outing... ?
<No to flicks my friend flicka... just five, ten, whatever second footage that can be shown, labeled...>
Perhaps one or two longer 'special editions' that roll for a few minutes and cover more of a given destination?
<No... not at this point... we don't have the footage, stories...>
Music? Narration? Chat it up folks...
-Zo
<"Just the clips, ma'am". All we have decent footage of/for, or can hope to currently post, use on WWX. Bob F>

Oh, yeah? Two can play this game ;-)
Gee Bob,
There I was, reading the daily Q&A's when.... there it was! My little,
just-goofing- around/not finished article for the whole world to see! #$@%
[very creative Sicilian expletives here, lol]

So, I feel I have no choice but to 'make-a you an offer you no can-a refuse'!
Either I contact 'My Cousin Finny' to either A) Track down your old 3rd
grade teacher and post one of your book reports from way back when or B)
Simply have him put a jar of itching powder in your wetsuit! [ouch!} or:

C) All can be forgiven if you could find the minute to change that nagging
metallurgist typo, already! Barb aka 'The Don-na of Deeeetroit'
<Oh! Sorry re delay. Done! Where's the first of your articles, huh? Bob F>

Re: Oh, yeah? Two can play this game ;-)
I'm very busy transferring your thousands of articles to WWF to have time to
write any of mine. [sigh]
<My real advice. DON'T transfer, translate, move ANY of the articles... not what I have/had in mind for WWF at any length (really). And instead do what reveals, restores, enthralls you... if writing for the pet-fish mags (and by way of this possibly for our websites) so be it>
On a serious note:
I'm kinda sad at the moment...I'm working on Tom Walsh's article and am truly
sorry you lost such a special friend. B--
<Yes. A fine gentle person. Bob F>

Re: Oh, yeah? Two can play this game ;-)
Seriously, Bob?
<Yes... Zo's idea... I can only surmise... thinks this will sell more pix? Give folks some-framework to work in/out of images? Am cc'ing him re>
What do you have in mind for WWF? I was under the assumption that all
data/articles were to be...needed to be... eventually moved from WWM to WWF
so all the other nifty new things/options can be under one site.
<No to moving all as far as I know... And real troubles there/here... as in how in Dickens name will anyone know what, when the files have been modified that have not been moved... >
Really a little confused as I've been focused on getting as much data over to
WWF for when it goes public.
Barb---
<Let's e-chat this over with all. I initially wanted to have a vehicle for showing, selling image work... In meeting with Zo and asking him what he "wanted" (directly) out of his involvement with all of this I thought he had said that he wanted to produce software... maybe sell same, lease it as a service? Zo? Bob F>

Re: Oh, yeah? Two can play this game ;-)
<And real troubles there/here... as in
how in Dickens name will anyone know what, when the files have been
modified that have not been moved... >
"Bob's Latest Articles & FAQ's" is the ideal place to post the new articles
and any modifications, whether they've been moved yet or not. It will then be
a matter of me/someone checking this area based on the dates posted to
transfer or update. Barb--
<Yeeikes, the FAQ files and some parts of the articles are modified daily... with hours of input, changes by Steve, Anthony, myself... some clever switching now! Bob F>

RE: Oh, yeah? Two can play this game ;-)
<<Let's e-chat this over with all. I initially wanted to have a vehicle for showing, selling image work... [snip] >>
Barb, if Bob feels you shouldn't transfer any more articles, I'd advise that you stop. I can handle it from here out, I suppose. It's not too hard to find out which articles have been updated on WWM and need to be updated on WWF, if that's what eventually has to happen.
As he said himself, in the long run, Bob really just wants WWF to sell photography, and has been sort of 'hinting' in his gentle way, that I'd gone overboard with the project, and he really just wanted a catalog and shopping cart for photos.
<Yes... but it's more important (to me) that whatever "work" WWF (or other projects) are/become be satisfying/what the people want who are working on them>
The problem was that I saw so much more possibility, knowing what I can do as a professional programmer. I envisioned the potential synergy of photographs, articles, interactive features... and a community just waiting, really waiting, for a REAL website to come along, and displace RC, WWM, and all the other sloppy, slow, limited sites currently out there.
<A HUGE dream/ambition... one that should definitely be enlivened... but isn't this why Billy.G has tens of thousands of employees? I mean, can such a product be developed "expediently"?>
But when it comes right down to it, Bob (and maybe others) is neither committed nor convinced, regarding WWF as a full successor or replacement for WWM - despite our demonstration, discussions during the last visit. I do see some point - the lack of focus - indeed, a site that does nothing but index and search through photographs, and allow their purchase - could/would have been completed some months ago.
<And if it can/could be, the monies used to "purchase" folks time (back) and even hire some more help... I do want to be understood here, and not be an obstructionist or remover-of-dreams... It is my opinion, admittedly knowing little of what is involved, that we should focus on the above goal (a software/hardware device) that can/will generate sufficient funding to pay for image work... and in a longer term lead to financing other ventures, including a more comprehensive Net tool/service>
And I do intend to make a 'stripped' interface into the WWF catalog, geared toward photo shoppers, art directors, for example. I've promised this functionality, I think it's a GOOD functionality, and I will deliver it. In the meantime, development on WWF has been slow, and I keep saying "we'll make it public" - "soon" - and Bob keeps saying "now" - because he wants that photo library out there, and with good reason.
<Yes, and sorry to appear/be impatient. I hope all realize my regard for their time, efforts... and burning desire to make progress, enjoy our time on the planet, with each other, the projects...>
But with the current code base, this is my battle: to bring WWF up to speed as a resource and a community, AND as a commercial vehicle for photography. I/we can do it using Bob's content, and his photos, to get it all rolling, and rolling fast. The problem has been a serious lack of time (I'm at work even now, on a Sunday evening), and until Barb and Jason came along, a serious lack of help. But at this juncture, due to recent conversation, activity - I do not foresee WWM going away ever, which really doesn't move me much, this way or that. It used to - but I had much more vim & vigor then, now I'm tired.
<There is time my friend>
When Jason and I were last in San Diego - the discussion really centered around what each of us (all involved) want to 'get' out our collective efforts around the website, photos/video/articles, forums, WWF software, etc. When the topic of "WWF as Software Package" came up, I admitted that I had thought about it (even at some length), and felt the code had potential as a re-saleable, customizable package - and as such could be very valuable.

This does NOT mean resale is my focus or goal, and most certainly NOT my original motivation, for writing it. My original motivation was to provide a system to showcase 'Pet Fish' content and photography, and a structure that allowed an online community to grow around it.
Selling software was (and still is) an afterthought. Selling underwater photography is very much "on the front burner" in my mind, top of my list of short term goals.
<... my friends... we live in a world of "exchange economies"... I am a bit older than (say nothing Barb) all of you... and for my love of you and the good we can do... yes, even in/through the vehicle of "pet-fish chatting" (remember Chaucer and the Decameron) do seek the practical and attainable goal of making a sum of money for all. Please do understand me... I don't consider myself a "money-grubber" (live in a modest home, drive a not-so-new but paid for truck, cook own meals, clean own house...), but am driven by concerns for what funds can get all of us.>
What else to say? Not much, but plenty of work to do. I want this thing out there.
-Zo
<Me too! Don't know what else I can, could, should do on my end... Would like the chatforum/listserv/daily pix/WetWebMail... all to run "smoothly" in whatever ways possible/practical... Do make your ideas, dreams known to me. Bob F>

Get your new issue of WetWebNews here-->
http://www.wetwebmedia.com/wwnews.htm
Mike
<Great... am hoping Zo is also sending these folks the pix of the day... or maybe building a database (listserv addie) to augment same... Do we have a ready "sign up area" for this? Bob F>

RE: Another pic for manana?
<How about this pic of Bryopsis? Winner!>
Very good. I'll be sure to scale it up to 20-30 Megs or so before posting to WWM... :-P
<That'll frighten all those algae-phobes! Bob F>
-Zo

RE: Re-sizing tool/protocol on FP
<Gimme a call if you want assistance... and keep track of all costs/WWM...
We need expenses as charge-offs. Bob>
Jason and I have spent at least a couple/few hours on the phone discussing WWM/WWF, mostly on his dime, some on mine... Jas? Ready to expense your (portions of) phone bill to WWM?
<Please do collect, send along. I do all the in/out of moolah for the sites on about the mid of each month. Bob F>
-Zo

WWF changes, blocked mail?
Howdy Bob.
I apparently 'blocked' your incoming Email accidentally yesterday....didn't mean to. Don't stop sending me mails in case you received an error in trying to do so.
<Hotay. The pix have a new "out protocol"... so Zo's new WWF was likely blocked. Be chatting. Zo, are we able, sending these images to all of Miguel's WWN recipients? Want to? Want to add the WWM name/logo? An e-watermark? Wanna win the lotto? Bob F>
Regards, from
David A. Bell

Re: weblink change of address
Hi Bob,
Believe I recv'd this message by accident unless all aol members
automatically get copied for everything ;-) Barb--
<Weblink chg of addr....? Got me. Bob F, who will cc Zo, Jas... maybe from chg. of Zo doing the MMF Images of the Day send outs?>

RE: Calcium Reactor FAQ
OK, ok... what exactly should I be taking a picture of?
<Oh! The units themselves... home-made, store-bought... a nice looking install/tank... some of the media, a gorgeous gal in a teeny tiny bikini... gosh, what interests you and what you think would interest your intended readership. Bob F>

WWM Expenses
I would very much like for WWM to cover Barb's AOL fees for this month, potentially future months as responsibilities evolve - she has spent many, many hours online, building up the content of WetWebFotos (Barb alone is responsible for at least 130 articles transferred, and many more every day). If this is not directly feasible, then something else ought to be worked out - I know she's in the market for a Calc Reactor, and I'll happily cover the (distributor's) cost of such a compensation, out of my 'share' (such as it is, semantics) of WWM, or my own pocket.
<Argghhh, I'll gladly offer compensation to Barb, though I am repulsed by the thought of using AOL. Bob F>
-Zo

RE: WWM Expenses
<Argghhh, I'll gladly offer compensation to Barb, though I am repulsed by the thought of using AOL. Bob F>
Oh, me too, by all means AOHell/TW is the evil corporate empire of this decade, shadowed only by M$. I'm trying to get her to switch to cable (Comcast around here) - she'd get a lot more done that way as well, speedy, and with never any hourly fees, etc... hmm, Barb?
<Send all on! Does Barb feel comfy answering, cutting and pasting with Steve.P in my absences? Mmm? Bobapalooza>
-ZoiPolloi

Re: WWM Expenses
.Zo says: 'I'm trying to get her to switch to cable
(Comcast around here) - she'd get a lot more done that way as well,"
EXCUSE ME! lol...but just how much more could I get done? ;-) I'm getting
real close to wearing out a couple of keys on the old board here....not to
mention a right hand on an old broad that's resembling a claw from cutting
and pasting. But it's worth it!
<Mmm, I have "more work" questions for you... Am again considering self-publishing a couple of book titles... Want/need help with editing, lay-outs... Now that you've become more than familiar with my (lack of) writing style... "you're it" (as we used to say in tag games as kids). What do you think?>
Anyways, I have been all in favor of switching to cable for some time now,
it's my kids that prefer aol. I know, I know...some people's kids!
<Some people prefer them... to what?>
Regarding helping Steven on cutting and pasting...you bet! As for answering
queries...uh, I'm afraid I would simply be telling people to "Go to section
_____ on wwm and read my friend". In any case, I'm more than happy to help
him in any way I can.
<Hey, this is what I do!?>
BTW Zo, I got the latest picture....bryopsis never looked so good! Take
care, Barb--
<And Hey number II, that was s'posed to be a yoke mon... Barb, are you familiar (susceptible to becoming?) with Frontpage? Jason, got time for more lessons? Barb, do you like to travel, go diving, lug camera gear about? Bob F>

RE: More WWM questions, re: upcoming times away from the Net
Cool, I'll bring the beer... oh, wait. I mean, sure I'll move the dailies
into the site.
Actually, let's do it like this. Just take the Daily Q&A page and paste it
wholesale onto the "To Be Posted" page where I will then do the do.
Happy to start anytime.
<Wow, with friends like this... I could go diving all the time! Oh, wait, then they wouldn't get to be there out diving, discoursing with... Oh, more friends will solve this. Yeah, that's the ticket. Bob F>
J --

Apogon macrodon (actually conventions used in WWM, life... at least Bob's)
Good Morning Bob,
I'm working on the Cardinalfish article for WWF. Wasn't able to locate a pic
for Apogon macrodon but found it under cheilodipterus macrodon.
Checked with fishbase but didn't want to change it's name in the article
without checking with you. Thanks, Barb--
<Mmm, the genus here has been changed (not to protect the innocent...). How to state this Barb?... Most often I/we "go along" with fishbase as the grand arbiter at the genus and species levels of name changes (Nelson, 1994, 3d ed. Fishes of the World for higher taxonomy by and large... on WWM, my hard drives, analog writing and photographic archives/files)... and "mirror" "common" notions of naming, labeling to aid users (and ourselves) on replicate postings, notes in files... Anywho, in this case the name really is Cheilodipterus macrodon... Bob F, probably making things more rather than less confused>

WWM/Bob Endeavors
That's a cryptic email Bob - perhaps you can pen an all-new-original email to clarify?
<Oh, sorry. Will try here>
Editing/layout help with upcoming self-published titles?
<HELP! Calling for serious assistance. Am more than tired of waiting for editors present and at large to wake up, sniff the caocao and get around to making books... Want HELP putting same together. Anyone in the WWM crew presently or soon who is able, willing to give this a go, come forward. Clear?>
Bryopsis as comedy?
<Yes... well, in a sad sort of way. Like showing a ball of fur, a spot of poo on a carpet as a cat, dog companion animal pic...>
Kids are preferable to AOL?
<To some... and vice versa>
What the heck?
<More coffee for you! And less for me? Again, apologize for too much, too soon arcane referencing. Bob F>
-Zo

RE: Yikes!
Yo Barb,
Frontpage is the program we boyz use to edit WetWebMedia.com - Bob's asking if you'd be willing to help answering emails, and/or moving questions/answers from email-to-dailies-to-topical FAQs. It doesn't hurt, Jason taught it to me a coupla nights ago so I could wrangle the 'daily pic', and schooled Anthony a coupla weeks ago so he could school Steve and together they could 'play Bob' while Bob frolics in tropical waters around the world... [! - we'll all be doing that soon - !] I can come by and eat Lasagna and teach Frontpage.
<Yeah, that's the ticket! And you can all take turns coming out, diving et al. BTW Zo (this is important), do ask your eye-doc to send along your recent exam records to Frank (fax 760-943-0371), and chat w/ Di, Christina, your son re when you can be here (SD)..