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FAQs about Livestock in Business 3

Related Articles: Business Livestocking Stocking a Business, Open Letter to the Trade re Quarantining Livestock, Growing Reef Corals For Profit, Pond Service Business, Don't Sell Non-Aquatic Plants!, Live Plants & Macro-Algae (IZOO 98 Report), Marine Macro-Algae, Ornamental Marine Algae/How to Raise & Market It, Compatible Marine SpeciesMarine Fishes, Selection, Display in the Industry, Damsels, Clownfishes, Hawkfishes

Related FAQs: Livestock Business 1, Livestock Business 2,  & FAQs on: Marine Wholesale,  & FAQs on: Wholesalers, Transshippers, Jobbers, & Sources For: FW Fish & Invert. Livestock, FW Plants, Pondfishes/Comets, Marine Algae, SW Invertebrates, SW Fishes, & From/By Source Countries, & Facilities: Collecting Stations, Holding Systems, Breeding/Aquaculture, & Research, Tradeshows, Crooked Dealings, CITES, Tariffs, Permits, Other Confiscatory Conventions, Moving Livestock, Growing Reef Corals, Tridacnid Clam Biz

You want to be an "A" player... ONLY deal w/ A players.

Thalassoma sel., captive fish mortality      7/26/17
Thanks bob, i will shy away from that wrasse.
I did pick up a wrasse people don't encounter often in aquaria, but I've seen you talk about while diving in Hawaii, a Coris venusta. Subtly beautiful, and ate everything the lfs had to throw at it.
<Hardy, like most Coris spp.>
I wanted your opinion in fish mortality. I've been told a trip to a wholesaler during receiving can be an absolute living nightmare. Garbage cans full of dead fish.
Without any real, honest empirical data out there, what percentage do you put on the number of fish living a week after they leave the ocean (capture, transport, acclimation at first facility), versus one year post capture (the hobbyist home aquarium)
<Losses likely exceed 10% for some shipments; perhaps more. Highly variable at times>
And lastly, how would you rank in order of most common first, reasons fish perish:
<Largest source of mortality: trauma/stress in collecting, handling, shipping>

1. Not suitable for captivity (ribbon eels, Moorish idols, mandarins)
<On a scale of 1-10, this is a 5>
2. Improper set up (seahorse in fish only set up, Achilles tang on too small of quarters, coral eating species kept in tanks absent of coral, Garibaldi damsels kept on tropical set ups)
<Again, about a five>
3. Disease (flukes, ich, velvet etc)
<Maybe a two>
4. Environmental ( bacterial, harsh water conditions)
<A six>
5. Incompatible tank mates (too many tangs, triggers with lion fish)
<A four or so>
And lastly 6, the mysterious fish just die whether it be stress, some type of genetic defect (heart issue, liver etc)
<A one>
Any others I didn't think of. (I'm sure chemical interaction, stray
and others play a part too)
Thanks bob
Re: SW fish mortality... more GIGO, generalizations in, g out. Now water chg. %   7/27/17

Thanks bob. Always wished there were more hard science when it came to this, more in the direction of cat and dog understanding.
<Google the names Andrew Rhyne and Kathleen Wood. These two have been gathering such data>
I will throw one more in there, misinformation, taking ideas from others and thinking they will work for you.
Was just told by someone at a reputable online fish e-ticket that more than a 25 percent water change at a time is harmful and removed beneficial bacteria. I always thought and still believe organic build up in a fish only set up is bad, and the good bacteria existed on rock, sand tank, and very little in the water.
<Mmm; am leery of generalizations... Would require information on how the replacement water was made, how the old water was removed...>
Never heard of too big of a water change in a fish only set up, as long as temp, salinity and other spec param.s are close.
Thanks again Bob.

Exporting live tropical fish     11/4/16
Dear Sir,
<Howsit Anton?>
As a reputed exporter of live tropical marine fish, fresh water fish and brackish water fish, having buyers over the world, we are on a promotion with 20% discount for Marine fish and 30% discount for, Fresh water fish.
The offer includes our imported Red sea fish too.
Our fish is <are> healthy because, our well planned storing tanks equipped with fitted purification filter systems, continues inspection, laboratory testing and maintenance.
Other advantage of Sri Lankan live marine fish is the catching method used by divers. They do not use chemical to catch fish. This is the reason that fish is healthily.
<Are mate>
Our buyers all over the world, report almost no DOA: it is not only because our fish is healthy but also our packing staff is well knowledgeable and dedicate, also they are experienced for optimum water quantity even for long distance.
So start with a trial shipment.
Please find the attached price list and our inventory for you to place an order for a trail shipment. Although the price list contains our terms and conditions, we are always flexible to listen and negotiate to change to suit to customers.
We are looking good response from you.
Best Regards,
Sri Lanka.
<Tel:-+94> Tel:-+94 31 222040
WhatsApp: - 0094 765477851
E-mail:- <mailto:sudeeraaquarium@eureka.lk >
<Will post, share on our site. Bob Fenner>

Exporting Red Sea Fish, Maldives Fish, with Sri Lanka fish       9/21/16
Dear Sir,
We are exporters of Marine and Fresh water live tropical fish for more than 20 years, operating in Sri Lanka.
<Ahh! I'd like to come out, visit, and FINALLY dive there... in the many places I've read Rodney Jonklaas, Arthur Clarke, Helmut Debelius.....>
Now we extended our business for import and re-export of Red Sea Fish and Maldives fish in view of expanding our
international "buyers network". To achieve our sales targets, we built good stock of Red Sea Fish, Maldives Fish, with Sri Lanka tropical marine fish and fresh water fish therefore we will be able to offer you attractive promotional discounts.
<I see>
At the same time we can guarantee almost "Nil DOA" because our modernized facilities in our aquarium along with our 20 years experience in packing for long destinations, and maintaining healthy sanitary aquarium. Please refer attached stock list with promotional prices, for you to enjoy the special offers such as, 20% discount for marine fish and 30% discount for, fresh water tropical fish. Also, we offer special net prices for large quantities.
<Good practices>
In order to see the condition of our fish, we propose you to start with a trial shipment. Please feel free inquire any further details of our company, international references as well as flight information to your destination etc.
<Am no longer active in the trade; but will post your letter and contact information for others on our website>
We are available for your service at any time because we are customer oriented company.
Aquarium Marine Fishes.
197/1, Padiri Pio Mawatha,
Thaladuwa, Negombo,
Sri Lanka.
Tele: - 0094 31 2223512
Whatsapp:- 0094 77 4345752
E-mail:- <mailto:amfishes@eol.lk > amfishes@eol.lk
<Good fortune to you, Bob Fenner>

saltwater import   4/26/14
Thank You Mr. Bob for writing me back. I m from Armenia. I started marine import about 3 years ago (first one in Armenia).I had a lot of trouble with knowledge as no other one to help. Now I was trying to find the commercial acclimation on the site, but couldn't. please help.
<Hey Andranik. The commercial acclimation input can be found here:
and Re livestock suppliers, here:
http://wetwebmedia.com/AqBizSubWebIndex/marlvstkwhlefaqs.htm and the linked files above.
Congratulations on being the first outlet in your country. Bob Fenner> 

Re: Help Needed!! SW lvstk. whlse. to Greece     7/27/12
Hello Mr. Bob
No I will not be able to handle a container.
<Ahh, then much better to buy from wholesalers...>
I was planning for some boxes twice a month or more , or even more boxes once per month.
I wanted to discuss it with a supplier. If I could add some freshwater fishes then it could about 60 boxes per month.
<Wholesaler boxes are far less densely packed than collectors, transhippers>
But if we stick only to Marine , then about 5 boxes per week , or 10 twice a month , or even 20 once a month would be ok.
Best regards
<Does TMC in the UK, Quality Marine ship as far as to Greece? Do you buy from Germany currently? BobF>
Re: Help Needed!!    7/28/12

Hello Mr. Bob
Ok , do you have any wholesaler to suggest??
<For Greece? De Jong in the Netherlands: http://www.dejongmarinelife.nl/
is a fave>
I do not know about TMC and Quality Marine. I have bought from Germany before , especially from Stendker. So I believe they ship to Greece.
Best regards
<I'd ask others about you in the trade who they use, and avoid due to issues... try the former. Bob Fenner>
Re: Help Needed!!   7/30/12

Hello Mr. Bob
<Hey Mr. Z>
I have contacted De Jong before but no reply.
<Takes time>
I will try TMC UK and Quality Marine.
If you have any news please let me know
Best regards
<And you, BobF>

Fish Merchandising cards? 8/5/11
Bob and Crew,
About a year or two ago I saw an ad in one of the pet industry mag.s for a company that had sets of labels or cards for fish stores with the fish name, picture, info and a place for price. These were made to keep behind the counter and when you had the certain fish in stock you'd go through the hundreds of labels and find the fish you ordered and put on the tank for the customers to see.
<You likely mean Quality Marine and their label program:
I've been searching for this company or product for awhile now, does anyone over there know who this company was or know of a product like this that pet stores can buy?
<Mmm, and there was an outfit, I think in Omaha or Lincoln/NE named Pet Connection or such that sold these separately. Don't see their link>
Also, any suggestions for the best ways found to label the tanks for prices?
<"Ink pens" and someone with good script>
Everything seems to wipe off too easily, and the ptouch is just so expensive for the labels... What have you guys found to work
<The above... Distinctive, easily changed>
Thanks guys,
<Welcome. Bob Fenner>

What Type? Cichlid sp. sel. for breeding, selling   3/10/11
I've read the reply and I was probably going to turn my 40 gallon into a cichlid tank.
Only 5-7 fish.
<Not a good idea for breeding; single pairs are what you need, possibly with dither fish in midwater in the case of dwarf cichlids, but most other cichlids will eliminate anything else kept with them.>
Since I have the time to breed fish (I'm not into chores and work I'd like to do something fun)
<Good plan!>
I was wondering what type of fish local stores would by the most of.
<Without question, nice (single breed rather than crossbred) Angelfish are by far the easiest cichlids to sell. Discus can also be easier to sell profitably, assuming you can produce good quality youngsters. After these, good choices would include things like Apistogramma species; the smaller Julidochromis like Julidochromis ornatus; and, if you can produce equal numbers of boys and girls (which requires exactly pH 7) Common Kribs, Pelvicachromis pulcher. Do also look at breeding other popular species; Corydoras and Ancistrus catfish are both easy to spawn and always popular in pet shops. Danios, Barbs, and a few of the Tetras fall into this category too. Livebearers can be viable, but it goes without saying "junk" livebearers are routinely cranked out by casual hobbyists, so retailers tend to only pay for really good quality, pure-bred varieties.>
I only have a limited types of fish from PetSmart right now, but as I get more money I'll have better equipment and stock. And what other compatible fish would be high priced at dealers.
<Don't for a moment imagine you'll make a profit. Breeding fish is difficult and requires lots of tiny foods, water changes, spare tanks, and sometimes medications. Spawning is easy; rearing fry is difficult. Unless
you can breed fish on a farm-like scale, or are ready to produce very high quality livestock such as Discus or F1 descendants of wild-caught Angels, you will almost certainly lose money on any fish you breed. But yes, it's tremendous fun, and one of the very best things about the freshwater side of the hobby. Breeding fish is a proof you're a skilled fishkeeper, especially when the species in question isn't routinely spawned.>
Thanks again.
<Glad to help. Cheers, Neale.>

Store help needed... Livestk. losses... not ready for prime time  2/1/2010
I have always been impressed by your site, knowledge, and desire to help the community. I have always has great success with tanks of all sizes. I recently started a saltwater store. everything is doing great with the exception of the fish system. the die off rate is higher than I would like.
it appears to be after they are in the system for more than 3 days. the Yellow Tangs do well, and so do the wrasse, but the Chromis, Clowns, and Damsels dont do as well. here are some spec.s that you'll want to know...
<Mmm, could be one of a few critical steps/things here. Do you buy your livestock from just one source? You might want to look/shop around>
1500 gallon system, 30 tanks that drain individually into the sump, Aragalive sand in each tank, 400lbs of live rock in the sump, RK2 fluidized sand filter and skimmer w/ ozone (set at 25% of 200mg),
<Mmm, what is your ORP?>
0 ammonia, 0 nitrites, nitrates are at 10ppm. salinity 1.022.
<A bit low... do you have invertebrates in this same system?>
each tank has a turnover rate of 10X. Prime and Stability from SeaChem is added with every shipment. is there anything more I can do to reduce loss.
I was debating on keeping Kick-Ick in the system. what are your thoughts?
<Are posted re this scam product... See WWM re, as well as this piece on acclimation: http://wetwebmedia.com/AqBizSubWebIndex/acclimlvstkbiz.htm
and the linked files above>
thank you
<And have the courtesy to run your writing through a spell and grammar checker before sending it to us. Bob Fenner>

Two things: Hawaii exporter question (and an answer, sorta), Mmm, livestock ordering... overseas...   2/25/09 Hey Bob (et al), two things: <Andy> 1. In response to the question recently posted here: http://www.wetwebmedia.com/AqBizSubWebIndex/marlvstkwhlefaqs.htm My friend and I co-operated on an import shipment from Xanh Toui Aquarium <All the way from 'Nam: http://www.xanhtuoi.com/vn/> approximately two weeks ago. Each of us is stocking a 90g reef (established for 3-4 months) in addition to our other marine aquariums. <Mmm, okay... takes a bunch of volume to justify the "one time costs"> We're both experienced aquarists, and we were trying to fill our tanks cost effectively. (no worries: we're not ramming a ton of livestock into newly established systems... we had ~350g to accommodate the order in addition to the two new 90g reefs) I can report that the shipment arrived, although it was not exactly what we ordered. The order was partially filled, and where they were unable to fulfill an item on the invoice, they simply substituted more of something else (of equal price/value). <A very common practice in the trade> DOA is averaging around 20%, among both fish and coral (we ordered various leathers and LPS). For example, we ordered 12 Saddleback clowns and 12 Clarkiis, as well as a few triggers for a predator tank. We received 5 saddlebacks, 32 Clarkiis, and none of the other fish we ordered. Needless to say, they might be lacking the variety of selection they otherwise claimed to have. Another example: we ordered a couple Octobubble Euphyllia and received 14 of them. All 14 were the same colour. <Mmmm> They demanded 100% payment up front, via wire transfer (refused PayPal), <Yes... PP can be reversed> and they demanded to handle all shipping costs (and charge us accordingly). <Again S.O.P.> We took a leap and sent them the money. I guess we're glad they didn't rip us off too badly. After all, at least the shipment arrived. Would I order again from these guys? Probably not. However, I'm not dissuaded from continuing to try to import as I like the attractive pricing and am hoping I can sell off the extra Clarkiis in a reasonable time frame... <Ok> 2. Which leads me to my next question: are you familiar with this gentleman's business or his contact information? > Sam S > Samm Ocean Resources Company > 85-549 Waianae Valley Rd > Honolulu, Hawaii 96792 > TEL:(808)699-7380 <I am not. I don't even see them cited on Google> He and I have been in contact re: shrimp, hermits, snails, and I'm in the process of doing my due diligence to determine the extent to which his outfit is responsible or reputable. He is not a member of OFI, <Mmm, neither am I... too expensive...> and the only relevant Google result I can find for him or his business is this underwhelming note on a crummy webpage: http://www.hiwtc.com/company/1756490/ When researching Xanh Toui, we found remarkably little about his business on the web as well... apart from an older webpage and some listings at various trade websites. This is partially why I wanted to respond to the person's inquiry above; there's relatively little information about this guy floating around, and I'd like to see that improve. <Looks like they're really situated in Christmas Island... a long way away> I have read your website extensively over the years, and am familiar with your question/answer policies and your usual responses to queries of this nature. I've read numerous times that you don't give referrals or recommendations to people you don't know, but I am earnestly asking for your graciousness in pointing me in the right direction for dealing with this individual. <I would tell you what I know... in this case this is zero> As I know you have experience with folks in Hawaii, I'm writing to ask A) do you know him/of him/his company/of his company? B) could you provide me some contact information for someone who would, so I can follow up with them? <I would ask them/him for referrals here> C) is there someone else you'd rather recommend for fulfilling my small order of various Hawaiian items? (100-150kg order size, even split between: crabs/shrimp/snails - fish - coral) <Yes... Randy Fernley... Coral Fish Hawaii... 808-488-8801 ph 808-487-1167 coralfish@vhawaiiantel.net> I have noted and followed up with many of the recommendations you've previously given on the site, however I'm finding that most insist on dealing with retailers... <And for good reasons> I'm not a retailer, just a (over?) zealous enthusiast...although I suppose I can dispense with the portions of any order I decide I don't need via the online community resale market From one enthusiast to another, and many thanks in advance, Andy Goodridge P.S.: Have you given much consideration to creating/administering some sort of web-based industry ratings system for marine import/export market participants? Alibaba and other wholesaler portals seem to be lacking the features that inspire confidence among eBay users... I think it'd be somewhat simple to establish, and your authority in the marketplace might lend credibility to such a system for the ornamental fish trade, especially if it were run under WetWebMedia's umbrella. <Mmm, a good idea... but, who to administer it? Am glad to share what little I have, know. Bob Fenner>

Wholesaler Using Dips 05/19/08 Hello Bob <Frank> We are a Tropical Marine Fish Wholesaler and Caribbean collection station located in South Florida. Always looking to improve our stocks quality and health. <Ahh!> We have seen our share of parasites from fish collected from our waters (backyard) and the warmer gulf side of Florida. We always dip fish entering our facility except non scale fish and goby/blennies receiving a half dose dip. <Good> We started using your suggested Dip of freshwater and formalin 1 oz to 4 gal with no apparent harm (except the occasional jumping). <Ah, yes... deep buckets and nets, constant vigilance...> Question: In an another article Dips/Baths listing many types of dips - you stated the best dip is Methylene blue and fresh water. Also I was recently in Philippines and noticed the better wholesalers used Methyline blue/freshwater also. which one works better --- or safer??? <The better (more efficacious) involves the biocide formalin, the safer excludes it/this> The reason this has come up is we were thinking that formalin baths strip the protected slime coat. Your thoughts? Frank <What you state is so. Some shipments, where the stock seems "especially beat" or absent much body slime (the fish seem "dry"), a bit of PVP (polyvinyl pyrolidone) material (I like carboys of Novaqua... have used AP's Stresscoat as same...) "a capful" per couple of gallons of dip... really can be of service. Cheers, Bob Fenner, out in Egypt till tomorrow, then the Interzoo in Germany.>

New LFS owner seeking advice on stocking XXL maintenance account 5/13/08 Hello Mr Fenner! Like many others, I have really enjoyed and appreciated your educational articles. I am a co-owner of a new reef specialty shop in NW Washington that is finally taking off after 4 months of refining our retail and fish keeping techniques. <Ahh! This is quick! Congratulations!> Responsible reef keeping is a paramount tenant at the shop and it is paying off with impeccably healthy fish, corals, and inverts as well as a growing and devoted customer base. <"This" is the route to go; assuredly> (We look forward to getting your Conscientious book in for sale on Friday!) <Is a beauty> We are also doing tank maintenance which is consequently presenting us with new and unusual questions to address. Like this one: what do you stock in a 400 gallon blank-slate burgeoning reef tank when your customer has a sizable budget? <Best to still "go slow", be very communicative with the customer, their representative/s, re the rationale, possible avenues...> They would like a couple big ones along with lots of colorful, varied, and low maintenance fish (with us visiting once a week, they cannot have fish dependent on daily additions of frozen food). I've been researching a bunch of articles on different surgeonfish populations and this family seems like an interesting option. <Perhaps the related Rabbitfishes as well> They have a tank full of live rock and two large sumps with bio balls underneath (two XL Euro Reefs special ordered coming soon). Their levels are... ok (Sera tests--> NO3=35mg/l; NO2=0; NH4=0; PO4=1.0mg/l) We're doing 40-80gallon water changes weekly until they get back in line. <The skimmers will help tremendously here> They still have some fish that their previous maintenance guy dumped in that I am not fond of (de gustibus non est disputandum) <Honto des> including a 6" green bird wrasse, a couple large blue velvet and 4 stripe damsels, a snowflake moray, and then some relatively harmless reefers like Cirrihlabrus rubripinnnis and a flame hawk. Oh, and we added 3 bicolor goatfish as a trial run for stocking. As much as I'd like to remove the more belligerent inhabitants... moving 400lbs of live rock seems prohibitive So, what would be your dream population of reef fish in this system? Possibilities that have crossed my mind include: a school of undulated triggers, pinnatus batfish, moorish idols, and an orange spot tilefish. :-) <Heee!> Just kidding of course. Seriously, we do try to be conscientious with focus on sustainable collection practices, captive breeding, as well as a week or two of quarantine for fish going to maintenance accounts and getting them eating prepared diets before leaving the store. <You are wise here> Some ideas for the tank are: a big school of chromis atripectoralis; a couple cleaner wrasses; squirrel fish; two captive bred dottybacks (one per 200gallons); a couple or a school of ocellaris clowns, maybe even nakeds, blacks and picassos; and maybe a marine Betta once the small fish grown up. What about a school of anthias, are any hardy enough to be appropriate for this account? Maybe squamipinnis? <A good choice... am currently out where this is by far the dominant reef fish species... in Egypt's part of the Red Sea> Are small snappers appropriate? <Mmm, not really> I'm lusting for a big one, Symphorichthys spilurus, but I hear they're not hardy. <Can be... but may well ingest the smaller fishes, definitely shrimps...> I am also yearning to do several rabbitfish their tank: doliatus, punctatus, unimaculatus, puellis, uspi, etc. <Good choices... I'd toss in a stellatus for algal control as well> I hear mixed opinions on stocking them in pairs and schools though. But my big question for this tank is in stocking it with tangs. We've had great luck with tangs in the shop thanks to quarantining in copper systems. No ich and a thriving purple, sohal, powder blue, and a powder brown. All active, healthy, and great eaters. Extending our shop's ability to keep tangs healthy, perhaps we can do so in this 400 gallon as well after quarantining for a week or two. <Two, plus> First thought, really show off the tank with a school of purple tangs. But, upon researching this in several resources, nobody says this is possible... <This species (Zebrasoma xanthurum) is generally much more solitary... than others of the genus> but they don't even address a school of purples. I'm wondering if they have not bothered to address this potential in such a large tank due to the typical hobbyists tank size. Second tang idea: I read that desjardinii tangs roam the reef in pairs. <Yes... am seeing these out here as well> Our wholesaler had a pair of XL desjardiniis. Good idea? <I'd start with a couple of smallish ones...> Third idea was simply doing a school of yellow tangs. Does the keep-em-in-odds still apply nowadays for tang schools? <For this species, yes> The rest of my ponderings consisted of keeping a smattering of all different kinds of Zebrasoma, Ctenochaetus, mimics... whatabout a A. vlamingi, or a A. guttatus? <Mmm, too big for here IMO> These customers have expressed repeatedly the desire for a couple large show specimens (pre-baked, i.e. already XL). I was thinking the desjardiniis or something, though they mentioned a small shark or ray (not ok, right?) <Correct. I would dissuage this use period> Alrighty. I can't wait to get your feedback on this. Hopefully it will be helpful to other stocking XXL tanks as well.Take it easy! LauraP.S. Heniochus acuminatus + reef = no good. Right? <Actually, this genus would do fine here. Bob Fenner, out for a few weeks in Egypt and Germany (the Interzoo show), who apologizes for the delay in responding)>

Marine Exporters   4/24/08 Hi Guys <Michael> I am looking at importing marine fish/inverts here to New Zealand. I was wondering if it is possible for you to tell me where I can easily find contact details of exporters around the world. Here in New Zealand, it is very hard for us to get rare and unusual specimens as well. Cheers Michael <Mmm... a few important things to state. You would do best to seek out and actually visit with these suppliers... not saying that contacting them distally, arranging relationships can't work out... but best to go to their respective countries... Better but not best is to meet up with these folks, press the flesh at large/international tradeshows... the greater of these is occurring next month... the biannual Interzoo in Germany, in alternate years, the Aquarama shows in Singapore... the "okay" method you can do by joining or looking through guide references like OFI's member list (on the Net) and trade periodicals... Are you as yet "set up" to receive much (how many boxes, a full "can"?)... Bob Fenner>

Re: Marine Exporters  4/24/08 Hi Bob <Michael> Thanks for the response. We are in the process of sorting out all of the paperwork for an import facility. The big difference between New Zealand and many other countries is our government imposed quarantine period (3 weeks for saltwater and 6 weeks for freshwater). <Mmm, there are some reasonable reasons for this...> This really bumps up our prices. <Ah yes> For example, a damsel which would cost 3USD overseas, would cost upwards of $20USD here. We also have an "approved" list of species (found here - http://www.biosecurity.govt.nz/imports/animals/standards/fisornic.all.htm) <Ho buoy! There have been a few attempts at making the U.S. a "clean list" country (as opposed to the current dirty-specified species one... nation and state-wise)... What a mess for folks/civil servants to do the ID's! More gov't... less freedom...> Also, there are very few marine keepers in New Zealand. Out of a population of 4 million, probably no more than a 1000 will have marine tanks. That means our imports are very small and is not practical to visit suppliers in their respective countries. The quantities that America receives in a week, we would not probably receive in a year. <Understood> Do you know of any good websites which list such suppliers? <Mmm... for general species? Am given to encourage you to just buy from large west coast (U.S.) outfits... Yes, and suffer the cost of shipping from t/here... Is there a particular range (geographic) of livestock you'd like to emphasize? Could you get along with western Indo-Pacific alone? Fiji/Vanuatu/Solomons/Tonga?> Also, what is the website for OFI? <http://www.ornamental-fish-int.org/> I have the details of a supplier in Bali called /Bali SeaWorld/ , have you heard of them? Experiences? <Mmm, yes... mixed> Kind Regards Michael <BobF> Re: Marine Exporters  4/24/08 Hi Bob <Michael> It is possible for me to get to the Islands to look for suppliers. It is only a 3-4 hour plane ride. Also, what companies would you suggest of the West Coast of America? <Mmm... Quality Marine, Sea Dwelling Creatures, Underwater World, Pacific Aquafarms (all on/off 104th near LAX)... I would order from Walt Smith in Fiji if this area could supply you well enough. Bob Fenner> Regards Michael

Re: Marine Exporters  4/25/08 Hi Bob <Michael> Thanks so much for your help. One last query. In New Zealand we get very few of the rarer species (black and gem tangs, multi-colour angels etc) <Very few gemmatums in the U.S. as well... you're much closer to the Mascarenes...> come through because hobbyists generally do not want to pay the $$$. However, on occasion some do. I was wondering if it would be best to purchase the rarer species from Quality Marine, Sea Dwelling etc, or would it be best to buy from the source. <If it were me, I'd definitely NOT buy these direct... Too much likelihood of not saving anything in the way of cost, health, overall value. Better to have other, larger outfits do large ordering, hardening/acclimating... screening, and send you the few, fit, sale-able animals you're looking for> If it is best to buy from the source, what are the names of the companies (if you're willing to give them out). <I would... if I knew them, and you better... Please understand that I'm not trying to slight anyone in/directly, just don't know the parties well-enough to at all, to introduce as legitimate players. The people (and by causation, the companies they run) that I do know to be honest and competent I will gladly "plug".> Kind Regards Michael <Bob Fenner>

RED SEA SHIPMENT & HAWAII  4/17/08 Dear Bob, I happen to come across the wet web media and I am just wondering if you could help me on this ? We are sourcing for the abovementioned for a while but unfortunately ,not much response. Its quite weird writing hehe , but I would be most thankful if you could help us on this. Thanks & Best Regards Ginelle I Aquarium Singapore <What are you looking for specifically Ginelle? General livestock suppliers? Particular specimens, species? Are you a member of the OFI? Bob Fenner>

Qs about the Business of Livestock By Countries To/From 04/22/08 Hi there , I am just wondering if the above links still have any updates ? <Mmm, no... but the links are still good as far as I'm aware> We are trying to source for reliable Exporter from Red Sea to Singapore. Need your kind guidance. Best Regards Ginelle <Much to state. Will you be at Interzoo next month? I'll gladly meet and chat with you re. Bob Fenner>

Re: Qs about the Business of Livestock By Countries To/From 4/23/08 Dear Sir, Thank you for your email ! I sure do would like to meet up with you but , Interzoo is located in Germany , I am afraid , I am not flying there as I will be in Bali . <Ahh!> I am happy that you have reply to my message. I be very frank with you as I have seen the Q & A posted by others and also how you have help them. I am not experience in Importing and Exporting of Marine Fishes and Corals as we are new and not new. I have been in this business for like 4 years and I only do Importation fishes from Bali. The seller or local Importer in Singapore would try to arrange shipment from USA Hawaii , Red Sea and also Bali fishes and corals to Singapore but of course I have to pay a very high price for the shipments. <Yes... or "piggy-back" a shipment with others... to reduce/share costs for CITEs et al. paperwork and get the best/container price for freight. I'm sure you understand this> What makes me feel sad is the pricing is gradually growing and I have difficulties floating here in Singapore therefore, I would want to source for Exporter and Importer which hopefully can increase my revenue to sustain my passion for marines. I write with a lots of hope and I sincerely wish that you would help me in one way or the other ! Sincerely , Ginelle <I would seek corals from/through your Bali/Indo. connection, and first try a smallish shipment from not too far away... Maybe contact Walt Smith in Fiji re... Can you handle ten-twenty boxes at one go? Bob Fenner>

Re: Qs about the Business of Livestock By Countries To/From 05/14/08 Hi, Apologize for the late late reply. Was busy with some setting up and coordination. I am looking for red sea Purple Tang , Yellow Tang... I do not know the capacity till I will be able to have a look at the stocklist . :) thanks ya ! <Read on WWM re such arrangements... http://wetwebmedia.com/AqBizSubWebIndex/Biz%20Index/Biz%20index.htm I will/would help you IF I knew you to be reputable... Hope to meet you in a week or so at Interzoo. BobF>

Livestock Sales. Retail mark-up structures  -03/17/08 Dear WWM Crew, <Myk> I would like to ask you a question today regarding livestock sales and profit margin. I value your opinions and experience in this industry and hope that your input will help guide me in decisions made for the stores model in the category of livestock. You're crew has always been very helpful to me and I thank you for your time. <Okay> Based on the store owners model we have what I believe to be a standard industry mark up on livestock for the store at cost X 3. <Mmm... a bit of slip and slide here... Typically, low/er priced organisms, common Damsels let's say... can be marked up like this... more expensive life... for instance, something costing a few tens of dollars, may only be able to be keystoned (doubled). More expensive organisms still... may only be marked up half again or so... Have met folks in the retail part of the trade who "roughly gauge" their pricing based on what they see offered on the Net... plus a margin for the in/convenience, costs to them for housing, displaying... allowing the customer/hobbyist the well-worth-cost of viewing purchases first hand before acquiring> Based on the report that I received from the owner for last month the actual numbers for profit come back at about 1.5 against the cost of livestock for same month. <This is... about "right"... considering what one might take all into account> To me the numbers seem pretty good, but the owner's do not like what they see. <Heeee! Having been one... I fully understand> Mortality rates for livestock in the store are extremely low. We do occasionally offer weekend discounts and we have a discount program for local aquarium clubs that go up to 20%. <Generous> The General Manager has also put a no guarantee policy into effect as a result of the numbers. <Mmm, am a bigger fan of being more flexible here... requiring a water sample, the body... and receipt... within a reasonable period of time. Is/can be a strong selling point> As I mentioned, based on my 14 years experience in this industry the profits compared to cost look good for livestock and our losses are minimal. Is there something that I am missing or forgetting to factor in? <Perhaps the huge increase in costs of doing business. What hasn't "gone up" in direct and not expense?> My impression has always been that livestock in a given store was more for customer draw and that the main profits were brought in by dry goods sales. <Mmm, well... there are some stores, chains that have a good deal devoted to the livestock portion of their physical lay outs... a good idea to intend to make money in all segments> Am I wrong in this? If so, what steps can I take to improve? <Much to state here... For one, constant vigilance in sorting out ones... assortment! Delving into ones loss/replacement data (see here re: http://wetwebmedia.com/AqBizSubWebIndex/lvstklscredsys.htm), sales/margins... Seeking out the better deals from your suppliers (always ask re weekly specials), ferreting out what lives and sells best... Culturing relationships with local folks who might well supply you with higher margin, better-lived frags, algae et al... Again, I thank you very much for your time and respect your advice in this difficult yet wonderful industry! Regards, Myk. <A pleasure to share! Bob Fenner>

Re: Livestock Sales. -03/17/08 Hi Bob, Thank you very much for your response. As always you've been a tremendous help. Regards, Myk. <Ahhh! It's friends like you Myk, that make me wish I were still actively involved in the trade. Cheers, BobF>

May you help me? 2-12-08 Hi Bob, I had find you in your web site Wet Media). I am the trader of Coral business in Hong Kong. Now I had some problem of my business. That is too many many shops to sell Indonesia Coral, so the retail price set very low even no benefit. And the aquariums want some new items to buy. Vietnam, China & Indonesia Coral are very hard to sell. May you give me some suggestion for this problem? I really need your help. Thank you for your kindly. Regards, Jacky <Mmm, well... good to have a "niche" to sell to... and from. Do you do service installs and maintenance? Are you looking for suppliers from elsewhere? Bob Fenner>

Re: May you help me? Unknown SW retailer in HK, looking for livestock suppliers    2/13/08 Hi Bob, Yes, I hope find new suppliers other from Indonesia, maybe Tonga or India, Caribbean. But Smith company is need 1000kg order, I had not ability for this capacity. May you introduce some suppliers to me? Jacky <Not w/o knowing you better... are you a member of the OFI? Bob Fenner>

Re: May you help me? Do you think if I want the South Pacific Coral, who can help me? and the South Pacific coral quality and items must better than Indonesia? May you help me? J. <In general the folks, product are better from the S. Pacific than from Indonesia or Vietnam... but again, I will not refer you. I do NOT know you. BobF>

A question for Mr. Fenner, FW store... lvstk. sel., sys.   2/1/08 Hi Bob, <Niki> Hope this message finds you well. We are building our freshwater system and are in the process of making 5 or 6 beautiful individual rows. Right now, however, we only have one row up. The issue is that we have several different kinds of fish that require different ph and I'm not sure where to put my chemistry to best suit all of them. <Mmm, from the list provided... there are some brackish water animals... the mollies and dragon goby... that should be put in such... And some broadly more soft, acidic and harder, more alkaline distinctions you could make... Though, if there is insufficient desire/room to have more separated sumps to service them, all others (than the brackish) listed here could be accommodated in near neutral (7 ish pH) and moderately hard water... I would make a few comments... I'd drop the Chinese Algae Eater (Gyrinocheilus)... both the natural and golden variety, too much bad news with its aggressive nature... Am assuming you're aware of differences in temperaments in some of these fishes, the large size of the Pseudoplatystoma... I'd have larger tanks in the upper rows... and likely no smaller than 15-20 gallons below...> Once we have our separate rows up we can make individual systems, but in the meantime would you take a look at my list of fish and make a recommendation? The koi and goldfish are in another system, so they are not in the equation. Right now the parameters are: Temp-78.5 Ph-7.9 <Mmm, a bit high... I'd blend in some "cleaner" water here. Perhaps an R.O. device above/near the sumps...> Salinity-0 DO-101.2 <Dissolved oxygen? Is this a percent of saturation?> NH4-<.25 <Should be 0.0> NO2-0 NO3-25 <I'd keep this under 20 ppm maximum> Thank you so very much for your consideration. Warm Regards, Niki Englerth <I am going to share your list, note with my friend and colleague Neale Monks for his able input here as well. Cheers, Bob Fenner>

Fish Death...Whats Normal/Acceptable ? -11/27/2007 Hey Howdy Bob !! Scott from Blue Marlin again... <Hello Scott!> I have a question for you and all the other crew members. What is considered normal or acceptable for the rate of fish death? <... Mmmm, a bunch to state here... Some for sure... not too much, for economic consideration... And variable, by species, size, source/location... a few percent...> I know that that question is pretty loaded and depends on many variables, however, I take every fish death that any one of my client tanks may have very personally and have spent many sleepless nights thinking/worrying about what I did wrong... <Mmm... we should chat here... A very important "point", bench-mark in ones time on the planet in determining (by action) in their life what is ones domain, what is beyond... and delineating personally between these two... "Grant unto Caesar..."> to the point that I want to give up on my business. <Mmmmm, again...> I spend weeks or months quarantining all new fish, agonize over water quality and go to ends of the earth to educate my clients on proper feeding techniques and things to look for before there is a death. But much to my chagrin, there are still fish that die for what appears to be no good reason. <Correct... and I assure you this would be the case if I, my other advanced aquarist friends, public aquariums... anyone were in the same position. Many aquatic organisms do "simply" die... mysteriously. A good deal can be understood from the point of view of their general "reproductive strategy" in space and time... the production of a maximal number of sex products, juveniles... and the long "neotenous periods" of much of the life under the sea... even vertebrates... They're just not "ready for prime time"... and their world/s are fraught with many and changeable challenges... Hence many do "just" die... w/o apparent cause... NOT to be taken personally. Do your best, keep learning... and press on... IF possible/practical, practice ameliorative activities... like writing/sharing your experiences... for fish mag.s, BBs, local fish clubs...> I've been in the hobby since I was 13 and have been doing it professionally for the past 8 years. Im pretty sure I already know the answer to this issue, but is it possible to have 100% of all new stock survive? Or is that a pipe dream that is just not attainable? <The latter my friend. Won't happen... we're mere people working in a/the real world, not Mohamed/Buddha/Jesus...> I go to all my LFS and see sick or dying fish all the time and think to myself that there is no way that I would ever let that happen. <IS the nature of the beast/business... much is done in this world that is a matter of "economic expedience", apathy, ignorance... Witness the invasion of sovereign nations, oppression and heedless murder of civilians...> However, I also think that it is inevitable that a certain percentage of fish just don't survive being taken out of the ocean and crammed in a box full of water. Waiting sleeplessly for your input. -- Scott C. Wirtz Owner <Further Scott... come out and go diving, visiting with me... We'll chat and you can hope to gain perspective... at least share mine. Cheers, Bob Fenner>

Red Sea Exporters 9/26/07 Hello, <Hi there> I have been running my Saltwater fish import business for about 1 1/2 years. <Congrats> Right now, I import strictly fish, and some inverts. I am looking for a reliable exporter of Red Sea fish, now that the main ones are shut down. Can you recommend anyone that is still shipping? I would greatly appreciate any help you could provide. Michael Stern <I suggest you peruse and perhaps join the OFI: http://www.ornamental-fish-int.org/ Bob Fenner>

Re: Red Sea Exporters 9/26/07 Thank you for your reply. I am going to join OFI. However, they don't have any Red Sea countries on their site. I have spent a lot of time searching the web, your site, and OFI. No luck. Any specific recommendations? I would very much appreciate it. Michael Stern <Mmm, unfortunately I am not active in the field... so don't know who is in this area any longer... BUT I do encourage you to attend the CIPS get tog. in China in May and/or Interzoo in May of 08... and you will know much more... Bob Fenner, who will be at these> Re: Red Sea Exporters 9/26/07 Thanks anyway for your reply. If you know anyone who might have this information, and can pass on my contact information, I'd appreciate it. <Ah, good. Will do so here... and post on the Aq. Biz subweb. Cheers, BobF> Michael Stern Michael@NYAquatic.com 914-661-3128

Supplier/Tranship question -- 09/08/07 Howdy folks, I own a small marine LFS in Salisbury, NC. Generally all my stock comes through vendors I've done business with in the past (managed other stores, now opened my own in July '06). Recently I was contacted by phone and asked if I would like to receive a price list for livestock. I said yes and was sent a huge list, what I didn't realize until getting it that it's for a transshipment, not from wholesale distributor. My question is multi-part: Does anyone have any personal knowledge/experiences with these guys (good, bad, whatever), is the savings of transshipment worth it from perspective of cost/stock mortality/cargo hassles? <All sorts... I've been one... been their customer, their supplier... Can be a worthwhile approach IF you have the knowledge, expertise, capital to risk AND the facilities to accommodate the volume AND the sales to make all make sense...> In past stores I always purchased from MAC certified wholesale distributors and local aqua-farmers which out of habit if nothing else I have continued to do. I haven't had to perform a transshipment before, what are the ins and outs? The prices are outrageously low compared to my normal wholesalers...BTW, the company is " Fish in the Bag, Inc."... Cheers, Logan ps. feel free to edit <Please read here: http://www.wetwebmedia.com/AqBizSubWebIndex/Biz%20Index/Biz%20index.htm The files linked in the fifth tray down under "Livestocking". Bob Fenner>

Looking for supplier from Hawaii    5/7/07 Dear Sirs, <Rita> I work in Pet Business in very popular company in Poland - Europe. We are on the market for 25 years. We import fresh, ornamental, reef and coldwater fish and plants. We are looking for supplier from Hawaii - especially interested in Zebrasoma flavescens.  Destination Warsaw. We are interested in wholesale 200-400 kg per one shipment, minimum 1 shipment in month, form 7 to 13 and more boxes per one shipment. Can we please have your stock list? If you company can help me please contact me any time. Best regards, Rita Tomaszun A.ZIARKO company Poland www.aziarko.pl <Rita, do contact these folks re: Coral Fish Hawaii, 808-488-8801 Island Marine Exports 808-329-1898 www.kaiohi.com Mr. Fish at 808-334-0123 Yankee Divers 808-329-3125 Bob Fenner>

Fishes, FW, West African (Nigeria)   12/31/06 Dear Sir, I am Mr. Gilead Uzoma, Assistant Aquarium manager of (CYNDI TROPICALS LIMITED). we are exporters of live tropical fishes from West Africa (Nigeria). I got your e-mail address on the net and I'm sure you deal on ornamental fishes fresh water fish precisely. So I'm writing you to introduce our company to you to know if you will be interested to see our price list with references both in USA and Europe to be sure we are in the business truly. So i can forward you our price list. Thanks and hope to hear from you soon. for: CYNDI TROPICALS LIMITED Gilead Uzoma Asst. Aqua. Manager www.cynditropical.com <We don't sell livestock, but will place your listing and email address on our site for others use. Bob Fenner>

Wholesalers   12/24/06 Bob, <Jeff> I spoke to you at MACNA and Next Wave in Dallas. <Ah, yes> I own a small custom aquarium installation/service company in Tyler, Texas. I'm in Dana Point, ca right now and I want to get some livestock from the local wholesalers. Who do you recommend I visit in either LA or San Diego??? <There is nada in San Diego... a treasure in Los Angeles... I'd call on Quality Marine, Sea Dwelling Creatures, Underwater World, and Pacific Aquafarms on 104th Street in LA for sure... and a few other friend's places, depending on the specifics of what you're looking for... want to do in your biz... for instance, Tideline on Isis... for coral skeletons, sand, shells... Bob Fenner, who may go with you (live in San Diego half the year or so)... Do send along your itinerary of when you'll be in S. Cal.> Thanks!, Jeff Morley Lone Star Aquariums Re: Wholesalers   12/24/06 I forgot to mention I'm looking for some great looking saltwater corals, fish and clams. <Mmm, hit/drive 104th next to LAX. BobF> Just wanted to clarify thanks again! Jeff Morley Lone Star Aquariums Custom Aquariums & Service

Seahorse - H. kuda. Wholesale from Vietnam    12/9/06 Dear Bob, <Trung> I am from Vietnam, who has own breeder seahorse farm in Vietnam. I can supply for 5-7 thousand heads per week. My seahorse has CITES Permit approval. If you know somebody are looking for it to forward me please. <I have heard that the syngnathids from your area are subject to having high parasite loads and concomitant large incidental mortality...> Kind Regards, Trung Tel/Fax: +84 58 836 335 Mobile: +84 913 471 795 Email: vthatrung@dng.vnn.vn Website: www.liveseahorse.com.vn < http://www.liveseahorse.com.vn/> <Will post your contact info. on our site. Bob Fenner>

Payment problem... w/ livestock importation   12/14/06 Dear Bob, <Trung> I have read on your web to know that someone never sent fish to the importer after they have received monies ahead of the shipment. <Ah, yes> It is very bad new for the serious live shipper. So I hope you will be warning every body only to send payment when you see the Cites Permit to export. <Having CITES permits in hand won't assure one of actual shipment...> I have been done same with my buyer when I ship live seahorse H. kuda to the over world. Best Regards, Trung <Best to do wire transfers enroute IMO... even better to work through known/established intermediaries here... as in transshipping. Bob Fenner> Re: Payment problem   12/15/06 Hi Bod, <...?> The info is put on Cites permit to be truly. You can contact the Cites Office in the country to get credit the info. It is be surely the serious company. Thank you, Trung <...? The permitting process of the Convention has naught to do with payment of one party to another... Nothing. BobF>

LR Wholesaler Sel.   11/26/06 Justin, would you send me Eric Rood's email with his addy, placed currently in the Trayless Query folder? Bob F. <No problem, Bob. His email is XXXX@bellsouth.net, and the body of the letter is as follows... -JustinN> <<Thanks much Justin... Hey Eric! Am in Kona presently... in Holualoa> Bob, Your old friend Eric Rood here. A friend of mine is looking for a quality live rock connection for his retail store. Any advice? I told him I'd   check with you, I thought you & Peter were once working on something. Let me know. All things are good here, Tam says high and she misses you. Eric J Rood <I'd contact either Walt Smith or Dave Palmer at Pacific Aqua Farms and see what they say re becoming something of a regular customer... Otherwise, Eric Cohen at SDC has some spectacular quality, consistency in LR nowadays. Cheers, BobF> Research funds  11/20/06 Do you know any organization which might help fund some ornamental saltwater breeding efforts? <Mmm, I'd start with the most local Sea Grant program near you. Can be searched on the Web. Bob Fenner> Saltwater retailer systems   11/19/06 I'm having a heck of a time find info on saltwater retail systems. What I'm really after is an efficient system for growing out various saltwater marine species with low maintenance. I have a list off about 30 species which are either breedable or I'm going to make breedable. =) Do you have any info, pictures, or contacts who could help me out?? Seems like you have to be in a secret society to get info on them. <Heeeeee!> Thanks Brandon <There are a few folks that will/can fashion you such a system... or needed components for such... TMC in the UK, Advanced Aqua Tanks in LA... many others that fabricate "parts"... However, I strongly encourage you to "make your own" holding tanks themselves and devise (design/engineer) your own mechanicals and controllers... with some help... Best for you to set out, visit folks in the trade... Perhaps Dick Perrin... Carol and Craig and other folks/companies in HI... where do you live? Are you adverse to travel? Cheaper, better by far in my estimation to take this DIY route... as am sure you'll agree in the not-so-long time frame. Bob Fenner>

Re: saltwater retailer systems   11/19/06 I was going to use 130gal polyethylene troughs <Mmm, for what species? Or class of species? Fishes?> with HDPE baskets all draining to a common sump <... I would not mix the water from all...> with skimmer etc. <... skimmers on culture systems?> that would allow me to just lift the juveniles out without catching/injuries them all day. I don't wanna <...> pay a small fortune for tanks to be drilled except the broodstock system perhaps. Maybe I'll look into a retailer system for that. <A bit more delving, investigating re what has been done, is being done per the types of organisms you wish to culture... including foods... is strongly suggested here. BobF> Re: saltwater retailer systems   11/19/06 Going to have a broodstock system and a separate grow out systems. both will have a common sump with a large skimmer and a suitable UV Species to culture will be Ocellaris Percs GSM WWM tomatoes cinnamon B&Ws <Pomacentrids... can be bred in much smaller systems, grown out in the volumes you list> Various gobies which I'm hopefully more then yellow watchman's can be breed. Hope to breed longnose hawks as I find them quite interesting. <Neat!> Inverts: peppermints sexy shrimp CBS Nassarius snails <Quite a project list. Excelsior! Bob Fenner>

Swimming pool to pond conv.  11/16/06 I own an outdoors swimming pool, I would like to put it and it's filter system to good use. <Mmm, may have to do some cleaning... and modification to the filter> Can I turn this pool into a koi farm? If so what is necessary? I live in Wichita Falls which has moderate to warm climate. Richard Dalton <Let's start here: http://wetwebmedia.com/PondSubWebIndex/poolpdconvart.htm and the FAQs file linked above. Bob Fenner>

Wholesaler Recommendations - 10/18/06 I have a store in the Carmichael ,ca I'm looking for a good Hawaiian wholesaler for marine fish and coral any suggestions? <I think Bob and company always have good things to say about Quality Marine. I also have person experiences with JSEA. http://www.jsea.com Good luck, MacL>

Discus farm... RMF NOT a directory  9/25/06 Hello, I have a 88000 sq ft. land at a prominent place on National Highway 4 in India. I want to set up a discus farm. I'm an amateur in the field but am looking forward to seek guidance from experienced person like you. I have read a bit about Lo Wing Yat the discus breeder from Hong Kong. I have plans to visit Hong Kong in the coming months as you have been making your purchases from him I would like to visit him. Please provide me with his address and contact number. Also I'm looking for financial partner from any part of the world for the project. I hope to receive your guidance and kind co operation. Thank you, With Best Regards, S. D. Desai < http://www.google.com/search?sourceid=navclient&ie=UTF-8&rls=PCTA,PCTA:2006-31,PCTA:en&q=Lo+Wing+Yat+the+discus+breeder+from+Hong+Kong BobF>

C-Quest new Toll free number. Note, this is a wholesale marine livestock supplier, not selling to consumers  9/21/06 Bob, <Hi Barrie!> It is Barrie here, from C-Quest.  I just wanted to drop you a quick note to give you some updated information.  I've set up a new telephone number for people to contact us at.  The number is 1-888-4-TANKRAISED.  Which is 1-888-482-6572.  I'm trying to get this info out to as many people as possible and if you have the opportunity to pass it along that would be great. I'm actually down in Puerto Rico visiting the hatchery right now and having a blast.  I've been to do quite a bit of really amazing snorkeling right off the coast.  Fun Stuff! <Oh yes!> I'll be back in California some time next week and I plan on making a road trip down to San Diego to visit some stores.  I'd be interested in meeting up for some ribs. <Oh! Do please call me: 858 549 XXXX for this and I'll show you about (we only have a few stores that deal with marines unfortunately... but two or three might be your target customer. I'll call about, make sure the decision makers are about... BobF> Take care, Barrie

H-town livestock wholesalers, SW  - 09/10/06 Bob, do you know of any wholesalers in Texas other than Reefsavers? Will be going down for MACNA and would like to pick some fish/corals for our shop, but RS doesn't allow walk-ins. thanks, Joe <Mmm, don't know much of anything re the folks there since way back when Fritz tanked with all their operations... See you then/there though... and we can ask around re. BobF, in Jamaica presently or would look in the industry mag.s "Buyer's Guides" re>

Pre-paying for intl. livestock... Don't  - 09/02/06 <... Thank you for sending this note along. Will post with the original on WWM... A note to all re such transactions DO NOT send funds ahead of shipment to any company you're not familiar with. Unfortunately there are crooks and incompetents in the ornamental fish trade... Some long-time established... Bob Fenner> Murray, Sorry to hear of your troubles with this company. Can you tell me where on our website the link or reference to this company is? We will gladly remove any bogus companies from our website. Sincerely, Mike Kaechele mike@wetwebmedia.com www.WetWebMedia.com Hi Mike -      Several months ago I visited WetWebMedia and found a listing for an export company in Brazil.  I e-mailed the company, received a price list, and then sent payment to them through Western Union.  I am attaching the e-mail that I received from them after my payment was received.  Unfortunately, I never received any fish, nor did I receive a refund.  I believe now that this company is a sham, and I would be gratified if you explained this on your website which still  includes information about this bogus enterprise, R.L.C. Export & Import. Orig. email Thank you, <Seems odd they would take the time to write if they were stealing...> Murray Meeker Subject: payment arrival Date: Wed, 15 Feb 2006 17:46:14 -0300 Dear Murray; How are you ? hope fine. Finally i received your payment; Many thanks for this. I already started to clear the paperwork and paid the taxes and imposts. Soonest i have news i will contact you back. Best regards; Leandro

West Nigeria/NYC Fish Source   8/1/06 Dear Sir / Madame, We {CYNDI  TROPICALS PLC} are export different types of tropical live fish (freshwater fish ) from the  west Africa Nigeria.. We'll be glad if your company, could give us trial. chance to supply our tropical live fish please just try us and u will gain it. our price list is available for any importer that is interested to buy. Hope to hear from u urgent. best Regard Uche 234-8058-239904 tropical_fishsupply@nyc.com <Will post, share your note. A note to browsers to take care when dealing with countries outside the U.S.. Bob Fenner> Banyu Biru in Indo.  7/10/06 Bob,   <Barry>   I am the owner of Kahuna Corals and I was lucky enough to meet you at me store in Renton Washington and here you speak about Algae for a talk you gave to the Puget Sound Aquarium Society.      <Ah, I recall>   I am looking into ordering direct from a exporter in Indonesia.  Currently I am considering doing business with a supplier named Banyu Biru and I did not know if you had heard anything about this company good or bad.  The exporters require you to send payment before they ship and the last thing I want to do is send a couple thousand dollars to Indonesia and get nothing in exchange.      <Mmm, am not aware of this outfit directly or otherwise... but share your concern, caution. Is your volume of business "sufficient" to warrant such dealings? You might well be better off going with a knowable quality in the way of a transshipper... Bob Fenner>   Thank you in advance for your time.      Best Wishes,        Barry Katz

Re: Banyu Biru in Indo.  7/10/06 Bob, <Bar>     I don't know how much volume I will do. <Mmm... there are definite "margins as function of volume" to consider here... Customs, air-freight, CITES permits... and much more are cheaper by far in greater/larger shipments/dealings> I will be the first to admit that my shop is a hole in the wall, but contacting an exporter is related to my plans of shortly moving into a larger nicer retail storefront on a busy street.  I believe I can move the volume required especially since live rock can be put towards the minimum.        Also ordering direct will give me the pricing I need to compete on price as well as quality. <Mmm... no, not necessarily so. The "becoming ones own wholesaler/importer" versus dealing through others... not what it is all cracked up to be... believe me. Delayed flights, large percentages of DOAs, systems filled up with unsaleable animals... and as you stated, little to no avenue for redress... You can read my further opinions here: http://www.wetwebmedia.com/AqBizSubWebIndex/bizlvstkfaqs.htm and the FAQs files in this series linked above>   If you know of any exporters you can recommend especially in Fiji I would be very grateful.      Much Thanks,        Barry Katz <I cannot emphasize this enough... Until you are really READY to take a full container (LD3)... forty or more boxes, do NOT embark on this possibly crippling practice. I do encourage you to contact Dave Palmer at Pacific Aqua Farms (near LAX) re transshipping five or ten boxes... this is a LOT of animals... may cost a couple of thousand dollars en toto... but is the best route for you to go presently. "Walk before you run"... I speak from painful and not self-experience. Bob Fenner> Wholesale Business in Midwest Ohio?  - 06/30/06 Good morning Bob, <Another hot one here in San Diego, Rob> Hopefully you can help me out here. I might be crazy.... <I might be a butterfly/fish, dreaming I'm a petfish guy...> I've been in the hobby for quite a while now and have really enjoyed it. <Is a blast, eh?> I have run a small basement hobby shop for a while and have expanded to doing some e-tailing.  Due to my size, getting quality live stock at a good price is not easy. <Yes... "economies of scale/s" definitely exist, impact here> I have been dealing with wholesalers off 104th st with some success, but I feel better service is possible. <Mmm, and worse if you catch my drift/plankton> In central Ohio we have a decent amount of local fish stores, a few high end establishments.  With the retail market tapped out I started looking at the wholesale market. There are a few wholesale locations in the near area; Dayton, Lansing, Michigan, Illinois and a few other locations. While I have not visited all of these wholesale locations the few I have seem to be running a somewhat shoddy shop.  I feel with the right relationships with exporters a higher quality livestock can be brought into this location. <I am in agreement... though... see below please> The main issue, is import locations.  To my knowledge Chicago is the nearest location live stock can be imported. <This is correct... need Customs, brokering facilities and numerous International Air-freight flights...> I heard a rumor that Detroit also allowed FWS imports?  Do you have any info on this? <I don't know for sure, but have heard this rumor as well> Am I completely out of my mind to think it would be possible to setup a wholesale location here that will cater to local retail outlets in the tri-state area? <Is possible>   Do you have any recommendations on importing? Dealing with customs brokers, freight forwarders? <A proverbial "zillion"... Not an easy business to do, be involved in... I must (just cuz it's in my nature) hasten to mention a/the "Opportunity" costs involved in such an enterprise... that is, what one might otherwise do with ones resources (e.g. money, time, patience... and so much more). My fave way of putting this, "what else might you do" that would likely grant you as much/more "return on investment", "effort" with as little acceptable "potential for loss"... at least disaster-proof large losses?  This is a germinal question... I truly enjoy our interest, both hobby, business and scientific, but chose (decidedly, as in "nothing is decided till it's done", to go another full-tilt investment route (securities and real estate) and was able to "retire" (as folks say I now can't imagine having time for a job) back in '94 as a con/subsequent possibility... I have been a part of helping design, build-out, otherwise establish such wholesale facilities (and collecting stations, retail outlets...) around the world these last four decades... and so still have sensibilities re what is involved, the players, the relatively low ROI and high risks entailed... Is the potential for "fun", enjoyment, self-satisfaction "worth" the trials, noise, trouble of such an enterprise? Each/you must decide for yourself. I would (at this juncture) only wish that you engage yourself with full knowledge of what is entailed. I would definitely visit first-hand all the wholesale operations in the area... as well as those on 104th/LAX... for ideas on their set-ups, operations... I would read (thoroughly) the brief offerings on WWM's Aquatics Business subweb, detailing for yourself the "5 critical elements" (Go Rin No Sho)... and start looking for those key personnel, set-up, location, finance, stock/sources... as well as your "operations manual" of how you intend to do what you'll do...> I plan on working on developing direct relationships with the exporters by visiting them each personally prior to selection. <In their countries of origin... a good idea>   Hopefully this will give me a small edge when it comes to the selection of livestock. <A huge and necessary one... Plan on re-visiting them annually.> Thanks for your time and I really appreciate your help. -Rob <Am very glad to help... Your and others success is critically important to me, my/our goals in aiding others in their respective success in our fields of interest, business. Bob Fenner> FW Commercial fish DOA rates  06/14/2006 Bob, <Jeff> I look up to you as an industry icon! <Heee! Thank goodness... someone shorter in stature than moi!> I have a question. When receiving shipments from domestic (within the U.S.) suppliers of freshwater fish, what percentages would be normal in terms of DOA and what percentages would indicate a clear out of the norm or atypical result due to netting stress, bagging, shipping stress? Thanks, Jeff <What a good/difficult question... Well... let's see/state that with some "lighter" packing, preparation of livestock, such mortalities could/would be reduced appreciably. That said, there are going to be some incidental losses due to the vagaries of handling, collection... many variables. But how much is tolerable/acceptable? Many folks in the trade have a policy of shipping a few percent more specimens than ordered to make up for such losses... For others there is a contractual limitation, requiring calling, documentation, perhaps photographic evidence to verify substantial (whatever this is) losses for credit/replacement consideration. Okay, all this being qualified, I do think more than a few percent in any given number, species lost is too much. Large/r losses foretell more trouble coming... What's worse than "trying to sell out of an empty cart?"... having ones systems filled with up with obvious or not sick, unsaleable livestock! Anywho, "things" happen order to order, shipment to shipment, so tis necessary to be communicative (not the disease) and talk with your suppliers should there be troubles or no.     Well, in retrospect, the question itself was rather easy... it's the response which is hard to understand. Bob Fenner>

Help Needed in dealing with wholesalers 5/14/06 Bob, <Steve> I am reaching out to you in hopes that you could provide some insight or direction.  I currently operate an "e-tail" business selling corals, fish and invertebrates.  I am facing two issues that if I can not overcome - I fear there would be no way to continue operation.  I am located on the east coast in Pennsylvania and am struggling to find quality wholesalers that will deal with me.  When I got into this business I promised that I would maintain the highest quality of livestock or I would not exist at all. <Not an easy biz... a good, long "learning curve", small margins... and many marginal players...> Unfortunately due to not having a brick and mortar location many of the quality wholesalers will not do business with me, which has lead me to deal mainly with transhippers. <Can be a real proverbial "crap-shoot"... many long hours, highly variable vitality/survivability-mortality, quality...> I am only able to obtain wild colonies which with methods for collection combined with shipping all the way from places like Tonga to Philadelphia international airport, there tends to be very high levels of loss - sometimes up to 2/3rds of an order. <At times even higher...> I would like to deal with wholesalers and perhaps even employ a jobber to assist in the selection of my livestock.  I wondered if you were aware of any that work with e-tailers? <Have you tried FishHeads as a jobber? I would ask the folks at Sea Dwelling Creatures and Underwater World, Pacific Aquafarms... all in/about 104th street, LAX...> I abide by any and all minimum order levels that a retail location would be held to.  If you could assist me in this matter I would be forever grateful. Best Regards, Steve Fauth 6 Feet REEF <I do hope/trust these fine folks will deal with you (have known all for many years). Contact info. can be found in Buyer's Guides, the Net... am out in HI, away from my ref.s. Bob Fenner> Wholesaler seeking info. re Sri Lanka supplier/s  5/11/06 Hello Crew, I am a new owner/partner of an aquarium store and was wondering if any of you august personages have done business with or heard about a wholesaler based in Sri Lanka named Wet Pet International?  The name of the contact person is Shan J. Meemanage.  Any information you could provide would be greatly appreciated. Thank you for your time, Eric Fishy Inc Bay Shore, NY <Mmm, they "come and they go"... am sending this msg. off to Anthony Calfo, who is on his way thereabouts for a consultancy job in the trade, in the hope/s that he will know more of this outfit currently. BobF>

Local SF Bay area wholesalers    5/3/06 Hi Crew,   I am currently ordering my stock from LA, I have accounts with SDC and Quality, but I would like to order locally if possible. I am only aware of Pan Ocean, but I'm suspecting there may be others. Any input would be greatly appreciated. keep up the great work!   Regards,   Alan <Am not familiar with sources in your area "well enough" to direct you. Do you have current editions of industry "Buyer's Guides"? You can order such, e.g., Pet Business Magazine's... via the Net. There are also possibilities, consideration due to considering transshipping with others in/about your area... Bob Fenner> Statute (perhaps height?) limitations, retail ad. campaign idea to share, selection service sought for marines    5/2/06 Hello Mr. Fenner     Crazy to think that someone of you statute will be actually corresponding with me!  :) :) <Heeee!> couple of things... but before background... am a LFS worker/manager in a salt only store. 1)   For the summer time slumps my company does a "frequent fliers club card" every $10 spent on livestock gets customers 1 stamp after 20 stamps $20 off any live stock... keeps profit margins and keeps customers coming back for more ... stamps that is :):) maybe pass it along. <Neat. Will do> 2) My employer is currently seeking a cherry picker as the companies that we have been dealing with for 12+ years is not meeting the standards of our competition ... any personal contact info would be appreciated sincerely Brian Borate     <Mmm... do you know the folks at Fish Heads? Bob Fenner>

Re: Marine livestock selection services    5/2/06 We do business with fish heads and they seem nice and selection is decent but not really as nice as a lot of things we see online and at other stores. If you do know someone if I can be picky Id like someone who deals with MAC certified stock.  Love the boxes from F.H. thanks for the quick response... Brian <Do you buy from Quality Marine? PAF? UWW? Bob Fenner>

Re: Marine livestock selection services  - 5/2/2006 our main wholesalers are Under water world, Exotic reef Imports, Sea Dwelling, Fish heads, ORA. Don't know who PAF or quality marine are Ill look them up but just in case can you send some contact info?   thank you so much Bob and not just a simple thanks a real one!  :) Brian <Mmm, both companies have websites... are located off of 104th near LAX... both good outfits. Bob Fenner>

Does SoCal have any good wholesalers? Is the Sky Blue? (AdamJ's much better title, resp.)  4/21/06 I do business here in Greenville, SC for the past 8 years I have  been in saltwater aquarium installations and maintenance, with only a few holding tanks to sell from.  My problem is that the suppliers that I deal with (Sunpet, in Atlanta, and Segrest Farms, in F) have been letting me down.  A quality shipment has been rare.  Maybe 10- 30% of the order seems up to par. <Sorry to hear that.> When I have gone in person to these wholesalers,  I always recognize that there are great finds, but these seem to be snatched up by the local stores who send someone in person, I guess before the shipped orders are filled. <Usually the case.> Are there any west coast companies that you can provide email, or phone #'s  for? <Your in luck I am familiar with the Southern California Wholesalers (as I live about 5 minutes from  them) and they are among the best if not the best: http://www.qualitymarineusa.com/home.html http://www.waltsmith.com/ http://www.seadwelling.com/ -These are all located on 104th street off of aviation, literally across the street from LAX airport in Westchester/Los Angeles, California, contact can be made via e-mail through their web-sites.> Any help is greatly appreciated <Sure-thing.> Keith <Adam Jackson.>

I'm looking for west coast wholesalers or suppliers (Bob's go)  4/21/06 I do business here in Greenville, SC for the past 8 years I have  been in saltwater aquarium installations and maintenance, with only a few holding tanks to sell from.  My problem is that the suppliers that I deal with (Sunpet, in Atlanta, and Segrest Farms, in F) have been letting me down.  A quality shipment has been rare.  Maybe 10- 30% of the order seems up to par. <Bunk!> When I have gone in person to these wholesalers,  I always recognize that there are great finds, but these seem to be snatched up by the local stores who send someone in person, I guess before the shipped orders are filled. Are there any west coast companies that you can provide email, or phone #'s  for? Any help is greatly appreciated Keith <Sea Dwelling Creatures, Quality Marine, Pacific Aqua Farms, Underwater World... or a few good selection services would be my choices to try here. Their contact info. can be found on the Net, industry "buyer's guides". Bob Fenner> Hawaii fish exporter   4/10/06 Greetings, <And salutations> I am writing to ask if you could possibly recommend a reliable exporter of marine fishes from Hawaii. We would be very grateful for your help. <I would contact Randy Fernley of Coral Fish Hawai'i here... I know him to be honest and competent. There are others: http://wetwebmedia.com/hifwgfaqs.htm> Thank you and Best wishes, Myra Ohara Marine reef sea creatures jpn. 0262955567 <Bob Fenner>

Summat about possible thievery, opinions, the Net   4/4/06 BOB,    <MICHAEL>   This Is Mike Phalen from Aqua-Direct!! You should have gotten all the facts before you decided to place this info that's is below my message on the internet for the world to see!! <... "It's the Net Mike"> In regards to allegations from Peter Savona this has been in court for 18 months now and Peter has shown the courts no proof whatsoever and has violated court orders about the proof!! He is notorious for frivolous lawsuits and has never really won a case yet!! He is not the guy he claims to be and quite frankly it is him trying to screw his partner and if you ask Walt he will verify Peter's behavior!!   In response for your posting ,I now have no choice but include you in the case of Libel and Slander that will be in the courts real soon due to his posting of my picture on his website!! Not a very bright person!! You seem like a very intelligent guy so why would you not have wanted to hear my side of the story   first!!! I will be in further contact with you soon!! <... please send along "your side of the story"... will gladly post. Bob Fenner>     Hi From Fiji Dear Mr. Fenner, Thank you for your kind words and support, and for such a prompt reply, sometimes I get the feeling of an orphan!. I am originally from Malta, in the Mediterranean, I have been keeping freshies since I was 10, and when I migrated to Australia I got seriously into marines, it was actually a spear fishing accident, I shot a small bottom dwelling shark and when I started to clean it up, 10 pups with egg sacs popped out, so I quickly tired to setup a tank, of course not knowing anything about nitrifiers etc, LOL, from there, to trickle filters coral and so on. <Ahhh, a quintessential experience> Somehow some years later, by which time I was a telephone linesman by trade, I landed a job as an aquarist at the Underwaterworld at Manly's in Sydney, I was lucky to have a Boss that was a walking encyclopedia, Chris Warner, and I learnt so much stuff from him, about a year later I also worked under him again at the Mooloolaba Underwaterworld in Queensland for another 6 months, an even more interesting setup. <Another fortunate series of incidents> Since 1990 I got involved with Waterlife Exporters (Fiji) Ltd, becoming the second eldest company in our industry in Fiji, the first is Tony Nahacky of Aquarium Fish, another extremely knowledgeable man, with incredible diving and collecting ability, I then resided in Fiji permanently since 1992, and now am the principal owner of Waterlife. <Tony is indeed an amazing individual, and a tremendous asset to the trade> I'll be honest I came here to catch fish, but since Ocean 2000/SDC and WSI, it became necessary to export Live rock and Coral or simply not survive, there was also the Segrest's for some time with Tropical Fish (Fiji) Ltd which went out of business, their Pilipino divers did terrible damage to our fishing area, fortunately the reef has incredible ability to recover. <Am familiar with these folks, troubles... am surprised you and I have yet to meet> For some time I depended solely on live rock and dealt with a Mike Phalen, of Aqua Direct, he is what I think they call a "jobber", ( I don't know if that is  a good or bad term in the USA, so forgive my ignorance), i.e. he has no facility etc. Unfortunately he still owes us US$34,000.00, this nearly wiped me out, but somehow we survived. <I... will make inquiries re this... It is my desire that the trade be rigorous in its dealings... and I do not condone thievery> We have a 7000 sq foot building with three separate systems, fish coral and live rock, and we used to ship 4.5 tonnes of live rock into LA for 4 or 5 years, and not to boast were told it was the best rock around, now unfortunately the price war with my big competitors is so ferocious, and they have counterpart facility's in LA that support them, I don't, and still have to freelance for buyers, and after being bitten three times in the US, I now require pre payment, and I can't get a foot into LA!!. <I am a huge fan of Fiji rock (and Fijians)... as you will find from my writings. And I can see from your website that you employ similar excellent practices in your dealings with local people, techniques of cleaning, curing. The LR product from Fiji is largely responsible for the growth, size of the hobby worldwide...> I'm sure you must also know how complicated life has become for us with CITES, and the new quota system, between you and I, it is really arbitrary, and it is really hurting. <I agree... had a short conversation with Dieter Brockmann vis a vis Kirby's involvement in a writing project and the "evolution" of this bit of "law"... unserving to anyone> The only consolation I have is that I brought in a consultant from Australia 3 weeks ago, his name is Paul Hough, I think he has Dr in front, he was responsible for the Great barrier Reef Aquarium in Townsville, and he also agrees that CITES is being rather heavy handed . <We might start a club...> We are kind of struggling a bit, I have been trying to sent up an ocean based coral farm, we have already spent around US$15,000.00 on it, but somebody tried sabotage it, ( you guessed it, a competitor), it is a pity really because it is for better sustainability, and a good education tool, specially since we are located in Suva, the capital. we will try to get it going again once finances permit. Although I know that propagation is a buzz word, but I really am interested in it. I am actively looking around for funding, and yes if you happen to know anybody or organization to apply to please let me know, I do need the help, and would be thankful for any advice. <Kudos to you and your company for seeing into the future> If you do happen to come to Fiji, please do let me know, it would be wonderful to meet you, Thanks again Peter www.waterlifefiji.com <Will do indeed. Thank you for sharing your insights, experiences. I look forward to our meeting and chatting further. Bob Fenner> Less veiled threats, no more facts  - 04/05/2006 BOB    <Mike...>   Not for nothing but is this all you can say about this!! Yes it is the NET as you put it but there are laws about what you can put up on it !!! <Mike... what is it, factually... that you object to. I don't know you or the other person who sent in the original... Is it my stmt. re Tony Nahacky? I am not judging you or anyone... or identifying the stmt.s made by others as being truthful...> I am not going to send you my side as you put because I explained that in the email about what he has done and I will not slander him in reply in order to play his immature game!! <Okay... but this isn't useful data either. "Who said what, when..."> That would be the same thing he did !!  You need to ask your web designer about internet posting laws!!! <Am not interested... have been about in the trade, self-employment, the Net long enough to know what needs to be known...>   I am 49 years old and have been an aquarist/ aquarium curator/designer/ hobbyist for over 30 years and had one of the first reef systems in the USA many years ago!! <"I am 53 and have been at this for more than forty...">   Ask anyone in LA and although they might say I am tough to deal with, I am 100% honest but my NY Italian  upbringing  gives me the " No nonsense attitude" which is why I am doing well but have been burnt a few times myself!! <I say "right on" to this information and attitude. I likewise have always dealt with people honestly, fairly and consistently. Not easy to do in our trade as am very sure you and I will agree> This business has gotten way out of hand!!! "!!  You need to remove that right away and I will let it go but if not I have no choice!!   <... am not sensitive to veiled threats... > Regards   Mike Phalen <I don't remove material/s from our site w/o "good" cause... What is your gripe Mike? Specifically. Bob Fenner> Ongoing: The trade, reality, the Net - 04/05/2006 Bob    <... Mike>   I am having a difficult time believing that you don't understand or if it is really you responding to this!! Maybe we need to talk about this on the phone!! <No thanks>   You don't seem to understand that you posted a slanderous accusation from Peter Savona on your website!! <... we post most all... If I/we don't make the slander... please refer to people who have> My threats are not veiled as you put it!! Do you not understand that is against the law both internet wise and legally not allowed? Is that really hard for you to see!! I don't have to really explain it further to you as you feel I have to!!  You have a slanderous item that needs to be removed, if you don't do it as you put it  that you won't then you will be held responsible!! You need to ask a lawyer about this so it doesn't go any further and some of your responses are very childlike and I am beginning to think it is not really you responding to this as the answers are very short!!   You are not allowed to just put whatever you want on the internet!! Do you not see how this attacks my character and good name along with my business? <Mike... address the facts please. If you feel you have been slandered... please show me where. So and so states something about so and so... if it's not factual, I/we will gladly post a rebuttal. I am not "taking sides", saying you/he/anyone is at fault. I simply don't know>   Or are you trying to help Walt too? <...?> He is constantly running his mouth about me to the wholesalers in Los Angeles with out any provocation whatsoever!!! <Facts please... not hearsay> Only because I stopped him and Tim from trying to screw a exporter there who barely has $$ to survive each week!! I was there when it happened in Fiji so I know it first hand!!! <Will cc Walt Smith here re>   I am the one who put an end to it and will do so to anyone else that feels that its a common practice in this business to make others suffer!!  There are way too many thieves that are allowed to practice in this business unnoticed or allowed to change their company name and do it again to others!!! <Bingo! You state the reason/s for my putting in the resources for reproducing others input here> I am in the process of putting something out along with a black list with proof of ill dealings!!!  As far as Peter is concerned ,I will say this !! I have proven 3 times to him that I don't owe him money and according to his site and the way I paid him why would he allow me to owe him for 2-3 shipments!! makes no sense to anyone!!!! <Do you really want to discuss this? I can relate many such "multiple transactions" where folks have stolen, continue to steal from people in our trade... sad but so> I am not trying to make any enemy's in this business, you included, so why not be fair to me!! I will say no more because I don't know if you might actually be questioning me for Peter's sake <Not for anyone's particular "sake", but alls> and I would appreciate you being a little more humble in your responses please!! If you review the last email you will see the 1-2 word responses seem like your trying to outdo me for some reason!! <Also not interested> Anyway I would appreciate very highly if you can remove that info from your website within 7 days ,it serves no purpose but to hurt me and help Peter!! I can't allow that for business purposes which I am sure you understand!!   Respect me as I respect you!! <Please send along a/your definition of "respect"... your threats are less bilious as time goes on, but still...>      Regards   Mike Phalen      Ps Why was the response from crew and not your email? <... Don't know. Found it here? Mike, unless you have something substantive to state, please don't write me. Bob Fenner> Marine exporters worldwide   3/15/06 Hi Bob <Derby> Long time no see! Remember this is Derby of DerbyAqua (HK) and we had been some chats in the email. We have been in this business for over 5 years now and we open another shop "BrianSealife" now. We have many potential buyers but unfortunately we cannot find good enough fish for them. So that I would like to have your assistance to suggest me the suppliers of the followings:- fish:- Holacanthus limbaughi Holacanthus africanus Holacanthus clarionensis Desmoholacanthus arcuatus Chaetodontoplus conspicillatus Genicanthus personatus Genicanthus semicinctus Centropyge resplendens Centropyge boylei Centropyge hotumatua Centropyge nahackyi Centropyge jaculator Centropyge debelius St Paul's Rocks Queen Angels Chaetodon falcifer etc.... Suppliers of marine ornamental fish in the area:- Oman Christmas Island Vanuatu East, South and West Africa Mauritius Madagascan Mexico New Caledonia St Helena Isolated Island in the Pacific   etc Your assistance to this matter is very much appreciated. Best regards Derby <Are you folks members of OFI? http://www.ornamental-fish-int.org/data-area.asp?aid=11492&gid=4838 I would join... peruse their member list for contacts... get on out to Interzoo (coming up in May), and Aquarama in Sing., in the intervening years. Hope to see you there. Bob Fenner> Re: exporters worldwide   3/16/06 Hi Bob Many thanks for your prompt reply. I'm not the member of OFI. I have browse the sites already for times but non the information of my expected. You know that all my requests are hard to find species. So I would like to have your assistance. Many thanks. Best regards Derby <Unfortunately I don't know you well enough to refer you to friends/associates in the trade... Hence my suggestion for you to come out, join us at the international meetings. The animals, locations you list are "all over the planet"... no one supplier will be able to offer you these at competitive pricing... Bob Fenner> Local Live Fish Supplier  - 2/15/2006 Hello Bob: Again I want to express my appreciation for all the information you have made available. As my business has grown I have often used your WWM as a great reference as well as your articles and books! Last I wrote you I was looking for a few more local suppliers for Live Marine fish. I am already hooked up with SDC and others in Los Angeles ( mostly great! ) though would much prefer to hand pick my fish when possible. <Agreed, much better> You mentioned ( fish heads) which apparently is not near us at all as once thought. I am in Northern California near San Francisco. ( Bay Area ) I am only aware of Pan Ocean ( The first company that would not deal with me as I do not have a retail storefront )though I know there are several others around. I have had little success finding them. Checking the Yearly Pet Guide, only listings etc. .  If you could do some checking or direct me this would be so helpful. Sincerely, Jonathan ( TDP ) <Mmm, I will BCC them here. I don't like to give out folks contact info. unless they specifically say so. And see if they are looking for another customer. It might be time to co-op, "piggyback" your orders, possibly overseas, with others in your area. Are you friendly with a store front operations? Cheers, Bob Fenner>

Saltwater only fish store  ... livestock and much more to go 2/13/06 Hello crew,    <Tom>   I have been a fan a long time.  I think I may be ready to take the plunge into a saltwater only fish store of my own.  I live in the Cleveland suburbs and believe fish store resources are severely lacking around here.    <Not for the feint of heart/conviction... or unprepared>   I was hoping you might provide some information on wholesalers etc.. in the Cleveland area.  Also, any other info you feel might be pertinent for my geographic area.      Thanks   Tom <Don't know of any in your area... All livestock transits through Customs facilities... mainly Los Angeles, New York, Miami... hence, most dealers', facilities are clustered about these... Do take a read through the materials posted on the "Aquatics Business" subweb on WWM... much to know before you go... spending money here. My "five critical elements of retail" are of use. Bob Fenner>

Interest import your marine fish   2/8/06           Dear Sir/Madam,    <Hi there>   Hi ! How are you? I am really interest for the Marine fish, so would you mind to give me some details of your company, shipment details, Price list for the fish and the fright charge for my reference.    <Mmm, we don't do this. I would try the OFI company listings>   My details as below if you have any of the information, pls. also fax or e-mail to me.   Desmond Ng   Fax : ( 852) 2341 7508      Thanks for your attention,   Desmond Ng   Man Hoi ( HK ) Aquarium <Bob Fenner> Your WWM Rocks! Looking for hand-selection service, marine livestock  1/13/06 Thank you! Thank you! Thank you! I will be contributing!!!! <Me too... daily> I have been sitting here for the past three hours  since I happened onto it & am Loving every moment! <Wowzah!>     Questions: Several years back I was ran a successful Tank Rental & maintenance Service north of San Francisco. I often drove to the SFO area & hand selected my fish!     Now finally eleven years later as I get back into this business which is really what I have wanted to do for so long as it is  "what I Love" I am a bit lost? I have kept up on most everything as I own several systems myself but all the places I used to buy fish from are long gone and all my research directs me to Los Angeles   ( Sea Dwelling.. Underwater.. & Quality etc.... ) Are you aware of Anyone up here still holding , importing or distributing marine fish? <Yes> #2 If not would you suggest hiring someone to hand select fish for us or just trust the machine & have shipments sent to us blind? <Mmm, there are such selection services still about...> Also any recommendations of specific companies which have ethical practices or are best to deal with! <The three companies you mention I am very familiar with... are excellent> I know this has been answered before but, it has been a couple years & maybe your advice has altered? <No my friend... same folks/friends involved... still honest, competent>> My Sincere Thanks, Jonathan Comras TDP <My similar welcome. Bob Fenner> Mmmm, have you tried Fish Heads? What are you looking for specifically? BobF> Good morning Bob: I am looking for fish exclusively. Thanks, Jonathan <Mmm, I would try Fish Heads... or make a firm deal with someone specifically at WM, SDC, UWW to hand-pick yours... BobF> Indian FW Livestock Breeder/Supplier  1/4/06   Dear Sir,    <Hi there>   We would like to introduce our self as a breeder or cultivator of different kinds of fresh water fish, based in Kolkata (India). We have our breeding center on various districts of West Bengal depending on climatic conditions for proper breeding and high quality.      We would like to know your requirements so that we can send you our detailed rates and broachers for export from India. Our port of loading is Kolkata (CCU).    Thanking you and aiming our best services always with an anticipation of your prompt reply.      Yours Sincerely,      Ayondeep Ganguly <We don't sell livestock... or anything else for that matter. But will post your company's offers, URL if you'd like to send this along. Cheers, Bob Fenner> Acanthastrea Lord's  11/10/05 Hello - <G'morning> I have a small business in Chicago, IL USA and was looking to import Acanthastrea lordhowensis like the pictures I have attached. I was wondering if you could help me or point me in the right direction. Thank you, Michael Kleist Dark Lord Coral Company <Mmm, how big an operation are you? That is, how many pieces, boxes can you accommodate, afford at a go? If not many (not ten boxes, five thousand dollars...), I'd buy these from the "usual suspects"... Quality Marine, Pacific Aqua Farms, Sea Dwelling Creatures... others in Los Angeles. Bob Fenner>

HI exports, interesting translations 11/3/05 Hello: me gustaria to contact a business of Hawaii (Island Marine Exports ) <<"Hello, I would like (know how) to contact a business in/of Hawaii, Island Marine Exports.">> <Mmm, you might try:  Email: hitropfish@hawaii.rr.com   Island Marine Export Ltd.  Tel: +1 808 328-1898  Fax: +1 808 326-2528.  Ocean Fish of Hawaii  Tel: +1 808 929-8294> or to another business that export fish since that pies.  <<"Or another fish exporter/business to export fish of the same type and species.">> do not I find this data in it paginates.  pardon by speaking badly the groins. Many thanks <<"I cannot find the data as it paginates.  Pardon me for speaking through my.. ar**?" Not so translatable.  Marina>> <I would also search through OFI: http://www.ofish.org/mainpage-banner.asp?aid=9580&gid=4790  

Shipping question 10/28/05 Hello, <Hi there> First of all, thank you for reading my question and giving me so many advices  <much advice>  in the past. I am opening a new business and I'm planning to import corals and fishes in small scale (10-15 box). The problem is that the supplier that I found (From Bali, Indonesia) never shipped this far before (To Toronto, Canada) and they asked me whether to use any special method to deal with the winter condition in Toronto (It should be between 3-6 Celsius when the shipment arrive). <... need to pack light (less animals, more water), use heat packs...> Could you please tell me how does it usually done when shipping livestock this far away (we're talking 36+ hours). <Can be done> I suggest them using a heat pack (Heat source 35+ or 60+, which one do you think is better and how many should be used in one normal sized Styrofoam box?), <They should ask about... their competitors re what make/model of heat packs they have, are using... some are better than others... I would use at least two pieces per box, on top of newspaper, on top of the bags... all individual bags sealed in one box bag. They should "practice" with a given volume of water, time (36 hours) in a refrigerated setting to see how this works out> but they told me it may overheat the box since the weather in Bali is relatively hot already. I already read the information about this heat pack and it mentions that the heat pack will heat up to 130 degrees! I'd like to know what will the temperature be inside the box if it is placed on the lid of the box and double wrapped with newspaper. I would really appreciate your help on how to ship livestock this far and dealing with different weather condition. Thank you very much for reading my email. Thx Jony <Only way to tell is to experiment... try a given number of heat packs under similar timed conditions... Bob Fenner> 

Quarantine and Copper - PLEASE Stop Sending Emails in html!!!! 10/25/05 Hi, I have a two part question for you guys. The first is about quarantining using copper. I know that a quarantine tank is helpful to fish because it allows them to adjust to captivity in a controlled peaceful environment. It also allows them to treated for parasites separately from the main tank.  But what I don't understand is why you should not immediately place the previously infected fish in the main tank after two weeks of being in copper. It seems to me that this would be the only way to insure the fish is disease free if your copper levels were at therapeutic during the transition. And by leaving them in the quarantine tank after bringing down the copper would allow the fish to potentially be reinfected without notice.  Could you explain to me why this isn't recommended? <Brandon, it takes anywhere from 21 to 28 days (depending on temperature) to completely eradicate a parasitic disease. During this time copper levels must be maintained. A fish may appear to be cured, but there may/will be hundreds of cysts laying on the bottom waiting to hatch. The cysts are unaffected by copper until they hatch. At this time they will need to find a host quickly. It is at this stage that we want to destroy them. Once embedded in the skin of the fish the copper also has little or no effect.> The second question I have is do you know what the name of the marine livestock distributor is around Florida? I'm starting a store up and the only wholesalers I can find is on the west coast. If you're not sure of the name in Florida, could you direct me to a link that lists livestock distributors? Thanks, Brandon  <Bob/Marina, can you help here? James (Salty Dog)> <<These lists are not usually available to the public, and many shops won't share this information with competition.  Has Brandon tried asking the distributors on the left coast who they know on the right coast?  Justin may also know better, I believe he's a Florida guy.  MH>> <<<Look in the Miami Yellow Pages... can find in large public libraries... call Millie at All Seas there... BobF>>>

Marine Wholesaler trouble  10/6/05 Hello, My name is David, we are wholesalers here in Costa Rica Central America, and in the past months we have had difficulties importing fish from the USA. We use to purchase in Bangkok fly to USA and have delivered here, and like I said we had difficulties with the company that did this, now we are looking for other options. Please send me info and a phone number were I can call you. Thank you. <How might we help you here? Are you familiar with the OFI? I would check through their directory re dealers. Bob Fenner> Sell soft corals  9/11/05                                              Cirebon city, we are from Indonesia, in west java. we want to sell many kind of soft corals. If you interesting to buy, you can call to my email : valerian@indosat.net.id thank you.                                              VALEN AQUARIUM                                                     GUNAWAN    <Will send your note along, post on WWM re. Bob Fenner> ZAINAB aquarium 7/7/05 Dear Sir,      We are Aquarium plants sellers from West/Africa, We exporters Anubias plants, Bolbites heudilotii, Tiger Lotus Bulbs, And Crinum natans Bulbs, We want to send our Price List to you if you could accept shipment of Aquaticum plants from us in Sierra-Leone, We await to hear from you the soonest, Best regards, Zainab, (miss) <We don't sell livestock, but will post your address, URL if you have one, for others to find. Bob Fenner>

Quality Marine 7/4/05 Dear Mr. Fenner, <Roberto> I am Roberto Lara, from Manila, Philippines. I was searching the web for fish importers in the US and found this website. I and my partners presently own a facility in the Philippines that deliver about 36 boxes a week of saltwater fish to Philippine exporters. We however would want to be able to ourselves export directly to US importers. <I see> I read in your article about Quality Marine. Is there any way you could help us hook up with them i.e., QM's telephone number or email address? WE offer only quality saltwater ornamental fish and are willing to guarantee a 5% (DOA) mortality rate upon arrival in the US. Our group includes the ONLY Philippine licensed marine veterinarian as well as a well-known and respected supplier of all marine products. We are also willing to make a test-shipment at our expense so that our potential customers may evaluate our capabilities and the quality of our fish. It would be sincerely appreciated if you could find the time to respond to this email. Thank you and God bless. - ROBERTO LARA   Manila, Philippines   (632)6365826/6365832 (office)   (63917)8954444 (mobile) <I will gladly send your note along to Chris Bruenner, owner/operator of Quality Marine. Bob Fenner> From Indo. to the U.S.... learning the freshwater livestock biz 30 Jun 2005 Hi Bob, <Nicky> I have got you mail at wetwebmedia.com, and I hope it is OK to email you for questions since you are quite an expert in the fish industry. My name Nicky Ferdyan.  My parents own a freshwater fish farm back home in Indonesia (a pretty big one). <Ah, which part of Indonesia? On Java, about where?> They have quite numbers of species including the rare ones. So far their business is limited to supply only to local exporters. They know what kind quality fish that the exporters want. Since I am in United States, they have been urging me to learn how to sell our fish here. Now since they are farmers they can really compete with the price. Do you have any advise where I should start from? <A Big question... I would start with talking with a friend of mine (who called "out of the blue" last night), Steve Lundblad of Dolphin International, the premier supplier of freshwater livestock in this part of the world. Their site, contact info. here: http://www.dolphin-int.com/> I have no clue at all. I am thinking of getting my import license, and import the fish my self but where do I sell the fish? <There is a huge number of issues to address here. I strongly encourage you NOT to proceed until you've worked with some other businesses here in the States... For one, there are some folks that don't pay their bills... For two, there are numerous laws one must be aware of, documents to file, arrangements with airlines, likely a holding facility (even if you're just transshipping) to build out... I'd "get your feet wet" on other folks time for now> This very risky. Anyway Thank You for reading this email, and looking forward for the reply. Nicky Ferdyan <Do call Steve... ask his opinions on how to proceed, ask where you might work for a few months. Bob Fenner> Fish Breeding Business... you've come to the right crewmember I have been searching all over trying to get information about starting a wholesale freshwater fish breeding business.  Could you direct me to where I might locate some information? You seem to have all the answers. Thanks for a very informative site! >>Stacy, Not sure what species you are planning on breeding. Because of the costs involved few species are worth breeding for a profit in North America. The  thing to start with is to identify what species you want to breed, and check to see if you can produce them at a competitive price. You will compete with places that have free heat and very cheap labour, mostly in Asia. So it is not easy. Some larger cities have a good market for locally raised angelfish, but unless you are able to produce large numbers and sell for cheap it may cost too much to heat the place and provide food and labour for your "product". Good Luck, Oliver Coral color change and Etail advice 4/28/05 I bought 3 blue ridge corals. At the time of purchase they looked baby blue, but now they are turning brown. Are they dyed? I sold one of them to someone because I had 3, and they were furious with me when they received it. They said it was totally brown. Mine in my tank looks brown over the top and blue underneath. They were all blue when I bought them. I refunded the money because they think we did it on purpose and threw a terrible temper tantrum. <I don't think these corals were dyed. Blue ridge coral never has blue tissue. It is always light to caramel brown. The skeleton is blue, so I suspect you saw some blue skeleton that was visible where tissue died.> We're trying to get started in a saltwater online business. We have accounts with Sea Dwelling, Underwater World, Segrest, and many others. The quality really varies in what you receive. <This is absolutely true. It takes time to build good relationships and to learn what each supplier does best. Hiring a "jobber" to go in person to pick your animals helps a lot!> For dry goods we have champion lighting and a few other but I don't think they offer very good wholesale prices. Any suggestions on dry and live good suppliers?  <You are dealing with some of the biggest already, but you may want to check Custom Aquatic for dry goods and Quality Marine for livestock (there are many others).> Also, we have tried no ick and kick ich for marine ich. Do you have any recommended brand? We have ordered more UV sterilizers. <The drugs/chemicals in No Ick and Kick Ick are not effective at the recommended doses. UV is the better solution in a commercial setting, however proper FW dips on arrival and quarantine are the best way to prevent outbreaks. UV is only effective when they are kept clean and the lamps are replaced often (every 6 months).> We got some corals in such as blue carpet and bright pink finger leather sold as purple hairy finger leather, and I\u2019m sure they\u2019re dyed because the water in the bag its colored! How long will the color stay in the coral will it fade soon? <The blue carpet is probably natural, but the pink leather is very suspicious. On future orders, tell your wholesaler that you won't accept dyed animals! The dyed colors usually fade fast, and the dyed animal often dies. Keep an eye on it so that it can be removed if it starts to fall apart.> I wouldn't want to sell something and then have a customer get furious, because some people are less than understanding. I want to try to have the best quality I can have and represent it honestly. Thanks. Any ideas and links to point us in the right direction are very much appreciated. Thanks again. Your site has got to be one of the most informative on earth! Right up there with an encyclopedia!  <Glad you appreciate the site and more glad that you have a desire to run a stand-up business. Beware that this business is very difficult, even for very knowledgeable and experienced people. Please do see here: http://www.wetwebmedia.com/AqBizSubWebIndex/Biz%20Index/Biz%20index.htm for good information about this business. Best of luck. AdamC.>

HI livestock sources Thanks Bob <Welcome> I once had a male Bellus with a similar problem, but after 3 weeks it disappeared ( the illness, not the fish)   Wasn't too worried as I get them locally at 3 bucks each. <Cha-heep! Sometimes these encysted worms do just dissolve> BTW   I used to get great service from Yankee Divers, but Ken has sold up now.   I am now looking for a really high quality supplier who can provide 50 box shipments at least once a month.  My shipments are not just for Yellows and Flames, I always need Griffiths, Goldflake, Tinkers, Declivis, Black Tangs, Bandits etc <You might try Randy Fernley at Coral Fish Hawaii on O'ahu. Bob Fenner> regards JD

HI sources Hi Bob <JD> Did the search, but didn't come up with the number. Came up with 3 other numbers, one is Yankee Divers with whom I had great shipments every 2 weeks until he sold up recently.  Steve/Mr. Fish phone keeps going to answer phone....am waiting for some details from Island Marine. <Keep trying him... great fish> Would still like to get hold of Randy, as he is mentioned so often on your site. <Sorry re... I was out for biz this AM and did look up his/CFH number in an O'ahu directory: 808-488-4401> Will you be at Aquarama in Singapore at the end of next month?? <Yes... we're planning on just the two non-public days to attend, the 26, 27... and I think staying out on Sentosa Island. Hope to see you there. BobF>

Business up soon Thanks Bob, You did not sanction me asking a couple of questions.  I am taking the freedom here to do it anyway, so you can just ignore me and I apologize. 1. I am looking into shipping the best way possible and wonder is there really any reason to blow oxygen into the shipping bag for corals? I have shipped successfully before with just air. <There are a few very good reasons to use oxygen... the animals use such in the dark, and it really helps with pH stabilization. Short answer, I would definitely use oxygen...> 2. Do you have any wholesale contacts you might want to send me to? The trend is against ecommerce only stores on 102nd street, but I have to start somewhere. <Mmm, I would definitely make friends with the folks there... particularly SDC, PAF... but otherwise, I don't actually know other folks looking for business/distribution of your sort. BobF>

FISHY BUSINESS? I would like to breed my freshwater tropical fish but don't know were to sell them. Could you please help? < The first place to start is the store that sold you the fish initially. If they will not buy them back then they will usually suggest a trade in. Then try the other stores in your area. If you are breeding cichlids then the American Cichlid Association ( Cichlid.org) offers a publication where members can buy and sell cichlids. This service is free to members. Local aquarium clubs usually have fish auctions where they will take a certain percentage of the auction fish proceeds. You could ultimately start a web site and offer your fish for sale there. This has become very competitive lately but still worth a try. Look at Aquabid.com. Here you can put your fish up for auction to people all over the world. Be prepared for some shipping.-Chuck> 

New stuff! from Eric at Sea Dwelling Creatures Hey Bobbie! <Eric> We are getting some really cool stuff.....please try to find some time to browse the website http://www.seadwelling.com and check out the photos. <Very nice... are those Dottyback species new tank-raised varieties? Your site is fab and continues to get even better. Cheers, Bob Fenner, in Quito, just back from diving with friends in the Galapagos (one, Marty Beals, from Tideline, around the corner)> Come by soon. <Will do so... hello to Scott and Bob!> Eric 

Brazilian Saltwater Angel Distributor  WATER BLUE CO., LTD Praia de Itapoã, Rua C14, Salvador, Bahia. Telefone: 71 - 22462537 Dear Importer , I have obtained your e-mail address on Internet. WATER BLUE Co. is the largest exporter of Tropical Marine Fish. Located in Salvador, Bahia on coast [of] Brazil, our Main Fish Facility is fishes [we] are catching on region [of] Angels of Brazil. We can ship to Japan, Singapore, US and Europe. Can you tell me if you are wholesaler/Distributor or Public Aquarium? Can you please send me you complete address, tel./fax numbers etc? Thanks and kind regards, Dinorio Machado Manager <We are not sellers of drygoods (other than the books we produce) nor livestock, but will post your message, email address and URL if you have one, would like... on our site. Bob Fenner>

Just to let you know!! Re: Songnam co in Vietnam Bob Just to let you know, Songnam co in Vietnam are crooks!! They took $2000.00 from me and sent dead or dying clams to me(200) and promised to replace them!! I have been getting emails for 4 months now with excuses!! I don't recommend you tell others about them!! Mike Phalen Aqua-Direct <Thank you much for this Mike... As you likely or will know I am a BIG fan of stamping out crooked practices, people in our trade. Bob Fenner> 

Songnam... another data point... Crooks and/or Incompetents Bob You might want to take these guys off your list here!! They do not have a clue about collecting or shipping and sent me $2000 of dead clams!! They rip the clams from the rocks and they die!! I would not recommend them to anyone!! Mike Aqua-Direct Giant clam source Dear Sir/Madam, <Hello to you> We are from SongNam Co., LTD in Vietnam. Our company specializes in supplying kinds of Tridacna, Crocea, Maxima, Squamosa..that have two main colors :green& blue. Besides we have a lot of Marine Fishes, Soft Corals anemone, live rock, sea-star &trifling-coral-Trifling-coralish used to filter water in tank At present We have a large farm to be located in a Island. We can supply them with the large quantity, beautiful color &strong. If you need to buy them, please contact us by mail: info@songnamco.com Best wishes to you <Thank you for your note. Will share, post on WetWebMedia.com. Bob Fenner> Huy Khanh <Thank you for this Mike... will accrue. BobF> 

Victor from VM Aquatics Says, "Hi Bob" Hi Bob, <Victor> This is Victor Loo here from VM aquatics. I wanted to get in touch with you but I have seemed to misplace your card. Could you please send me your telephone number, so that I may give you a call later during the week. Thanks, Victor <Got your phone msg...Will try to call you back... it's our usual Thursday night dinner party this eve if you can make it... a dozen or two friends for Indian food this time. Here in Mira Mesa... the addy is on our biz card... sevenish. We have a visitor coming who has just been out in Madagascar and Mozambique the last few months... she's a marine bio. type... going to show pix. Hope you can make it. Bob Fenner>

Japanese Distributor Hey Bob, It was nice talking to you earlier today. Just wanted to send this reminder email to you regarding any possible Japanese fish distributor connections you might have. Any help would be greatly appreciated. Thanks Victor <Am BCC'g friends/associates in the trade in the hope that someone may have knowledge of such contact/s. Do you know of people in Japan who are shipping to the U.S. west coast? If so, please contact Victor re. Bob Fenner>

Re: Japanese Distributor Bob, <Hey Eric.... BarryN says Scotter is back!> What's up buddy! <Same ole' petfish madness> I have been shipping and trading with about 4 Japanese company's over the last year or so.... Whatcha need? Eric <Oh, this is actually for a fellow (these guys have a few retail shops in S. Ca., one here in San Diego> P.S. Just did a really cool project with the Toledo Zoo for some cold water Japanese animals.... starfish, lobsters, crab's, sea bugs (look like big lice) and some pinecone fish and Dragon eels....all in the exciting daze work at SDC. heheheheheheheehehehehe <Neat... Hope to see you soon. Bob Fenner>

Re: Japanese Distributor We just started supplying LSS Laboratory Co., Ltd. in Tokyo with our tank raised fish. Our contact is Hideaki Okabe  Not sure if they send fish to the US. David Gross <Thanks much David. Hope to see you out and about. Are you attending Aquarama in May? Bob Fenner>

Re: Japanese Distributor We are not doing many shows this year, due to the hurricane that knocked down our facility. We will be at the Global Pet Expo in Orlando March 13-15. <Yikes, had forgotten re your location and those four big blows...> We're in the process of rebuilding - currently a slab. <Wowzah!> Fortunately we operate C Quest in Puerto Rico, so we did not have "all our eggs in one basket." <... am familiar with Bill Addison's windy adventures there as well...> What is Aquarama? <Oh, the second largest trade show in ornamental aquatics... I REALLY suggest you/the company attend if not display at the biannual Aquarama and alternating Interzoo shows... As time's gone by, Aquarama has become more dry-goods oriented, but it was originally mainly livestock... and marines as well as freshwater... Here's a link: http://www.aquarama.com.sg/ Amazing to find in our interest that so much goes as un-discussed... Do try to make it on out if you can... Do you enjoy dive/adventure travel? Do consider coming out with us for some time after in N.E. Sulawesi... with some pet-fish types mainly. Bob Fenner>

Re: Japanese Distributor Maybe when we're operational again.  Not much point when all we basically have is clownfish. David Gross <I see... well, hope to see you out and about. Am giving pitches at the two larger "club of clubs" petfish get-togethers this year (IMAC, MACNA), so perhaps at these. Bob Fenner>

Re: Japanese Distributor cheers Victor/Bob I/we do know of a fab fish seller in Japan: Koji Wada at: http:// www.blueharbor.co.jp he sells the big $ fishies too... Kingii and boylei angels, etc. lately has been doing a lot of retail though. FWIW :) Anthony

Exporter of fishes, live plants We are exporter of live fishes/, We export world wide, pleas if you are interested in buying our live fishes/ Plants do not hesitate to request for our price list today.  Thanks TERENCE WIJETUNGE WIJETUNGE AQUA <We don't sell livestock (or dry goods for that matter), but will gladly list your company, URL on our link pages, refer others to you for your review if you'd like to send along your address, a brief description of what you offer, what countries you ship to... Bob Fenner>

Looking for supplier of Indo. and Fiji corals Hi Bob Wondered if you could help, looking for a supplier of Acropora, Goniopora corals etc. either in Fiji, or Indonesia. Thanks Best Regards  Tropical Reefs Hassan Shabir <Hassan, as I don't know you, I will contact friends, associates in the trade here, and ask, if they're interested, that they contact you. Bob Fenner> 

Business: Merchandising Corals Hello Friends at WWM! <Hi there Matt> I am looking for a way to more effectively price our corals. What we really want is to do underwater tags, but we're not sure quite how to go about it. <U/W? Me neither> Have you ever done this, seen it done, or simply have any brilliant ideas that would be relatively simple and effective? <Mmm, maybe labeling a "stand" of PVC pipe section... or color coding same... and sticking the coral bits, colonies on these... with a legend outside the systems?> We clean the glass on our tanks daily and no solution that requires writing on the glass is a desirable option for us. We have tried bulletin boards but naming proves difficult, and customers aren't pleased with their ability to find the price of the coral they are interested. <Good points... a common gripe> Currently, we have tags that we Velcro around the tanks, which are nice because we can provide a lot of information about the coral, but its a very difficult system to maintain and changing price based on size and health is very difficult after a tag has been made and printed.  Thanks! Scott Johnson <Will ask Antoine here as well... as he has been a retailer too. Bob Fenner>

Coral Distribution - Pitfalls and Perils Bob, <Brandon> Hi my name is Brandon Hill. I saw some of your posts in regards to owning your own business, and coral distribution. I am a small business owner for a coral company here in Utah. We are currently using PAF to get all of our livestock that we distribute. We are interested in spreading our wings just a little more though and using a transhipper or even contacting divers direct, and piggy backing the orders into the US. <A worthwhile consideration... though fraught with danger, hassles... You have enough room to store, business volume to justify this I take it> We, as in my business partner, Nolan Dobson and I are quite lucky to have access to acrylic tanks however large or small in size we want them, since Nolan owns Proplastics an acrylic company. I don't want to make this long because I know that you are SWAMPED with emails, but I was hoping that you could lead me in the right direction with some transhippers and divers, that we could go with, that have served others well in the past. Dave Palmer is a close friend of Nolan's, and has helped us out thus far tremendously. If you could help out in any way it would be much appreciated. Best Regards, Brandon T. Hill <I want to be understood here, and am fearful, as not knowing you, that I may be seen as being offensive (this is not my intent), but are you sure you want to do this at this juncture? As stated, there is MUCH to go wrong... with bad shipments, CITES trouble/s, air freight delays... And, I would have to know you MUCH better to make referrals as this... Please don't take this personally... as this would be my statement to any/all... Introducing you is tantamount to an endorsement in our industry (overseas)... Do we know other people in common? For instance, are you friends with Dave Palmer or Walt Smith of PAF? How to re-start, re-state what I'm getting at here?... IF your volume can justify this "savings", DO make it known how many boxes you might be ready to handle... and that you know how much actual money you'll have to outlay for a shipment, co-shipment... This IS a very big step... and I do NOT want to be part of hurting your business. Bob Fenner>

Importing Marine Fish 2/15/05 Hi Anthony <cheers> Thanks for your previous emails......I need to ask you if you have ever heard of ( good or bad) of a company called Aquatlantic in Brazil......... <I have no experience with them... seem to recall they may be one of those folks that e-mail heavily to solicit new biz> Just to update you since our last correspondence ( attached ), that I have been importing weekly from various countries, and selling mainly to 2 wholesalers, as I have 1 of the 2 valid import licenses here in Indonesia....Trade has been good, and revenues of over 20k US$ per month, at a healthy profit. I am ready to open my new store now, where the emphasis will be on imported rather than local fish and equipment. <do know that your long term survival in the industry may depend on dry goods... livestock alone is a very hard and volatile business to depend on alone> Hope you can help, as I am expecting a shipment in 3 days, and no-one has answered their phone in the last week. Only a small trial order of 1500 bucks. JD <alas, no my friend... no experience with these chaps. Have you "Googled" them? Anthony>

Wholesalers in Canada 1/29/05 Thanks for taking the time to read my email. I am starting a new coral and clam retail business, and am desperately trying to find wholesaler of clams and corals in Canada. Any help or direction would be greatly appreciated.  <I just replied to a similar question for a chap overseas... do see my reply below> There is a lot of demand in Canada for quality clams, and I would love to be able to bring some in. Also do you have any idea what the general minimum orders for clams are? <extremely high... several thousand clams often so. The clam farmers are protecting their biggest distributors (rightly so) by strong-arming the small dealers into heeding industry price points. This keeps everyone in business and doesn't hamstring the big wholesalers by selling at the same prices to their (retailer) customers> Thanks, Mike <my best advice if for you to subscribe to some trade journals like Pet Age, Pet Business or Pet Supplies Marketing... you will get indices of industry merchants in them and can pick from many of the wholesalers in the US and around the world that may be able to supply you. Best of luck, Anthony>

Looking for Livestock suppliers 1/29/05 Hi Bob <Anthony Calfo in his stead>  Found your website just yesterday , We are a importer trying to find a supplier of maxima clams and Acropora Corals ,would be grateful if you can help.  Thanks very much. Best Regards, Hassan Shabir <my best advice if for you to subscribe to some trade journals like Pet Age, Pet Business or Pet Supplies Marketing... you will get indices of industry merchants in them and can pick from many of the wholesalers in the US and around the world that may be able to supply you. Best of luck, Anthony>

Coral for Canada 1/19/05 I am in Canada and am interested in purchasing a large quantity of zoos and SPS corals (preferably aqua cultured) from a reputable wholesaler. <Aquaculture Wholesalers are hard to find on the East Coast. I think ORA ( http://www.orafarm.com/) and maybe Blane Perun's store "Farms at the Sea": ( http://www.farms-of-thesea.com/catalog/index.php)might be able to help you out if you haven't tried them already. Although you didn't say that you were on the East Coast now did you =) There is always the Walt Smith ( http://www.waltsmith.com/) and Sea Dwelling Creatures ( http://www.seadwelling.com/index.php) or Quality Marine ( http://www.qualitymarineusa.com/) on the West Coast.> I have yet to find a wholesaler in Canada and was wondering if you could recommend one in the US that would consider exporting to Canada. <There are some e-tailers in Canada. One in Vancouver, BC but I can't seem to remember the name off hand. Maybe they will write in. Good luck. Maybe Bob could add something here? ~Paul> Thanks. Nathan Myhill NGM Exotics

Coral for Canada 1/19/05 - Follow up Thanks a lot for your quick reply. I have been looking at Walt Smith's site, but there is no way I could possibly fulfill his minimum orders. Do you know anyone in the US who distributes his corals? Thanks. <I would contact them directly... or Pacific Aquafarms: http://www.pacificaquafarms.com/  to be more specific... ask them if they know someone (within easy driving distance of you or your airport) and ask them to contact that party re "piggybacking" an order... sharing freight costs. This is the best route to go. Bob Fenner>

Looking for feesh I'm looking for a marine fish transhipper I was wondering if you could help   me out thanks <... uhhh, from where? To where? Are you a large/small operation? Are you familiar with CITES laws, regulations? Have airfreight relations, an airport nearby? Please read here: http://www.ornamental-fish-int.org/mainpage-banner.asp?aid=9580&gid=4790 Bob Fenner>

Offer of tropical fish Indonesia Hi... My name is Tita (Ms), I am marketing division of Aquatic Indonesia. on 2002 I received your mail about tropical fishes. are you still import live tropical fishes ? We have very large stock of freshwater fish, marine fish, coral and aquatic plant. And we have special offer price for some fishes. Please feel free to contact me for further information, we are ready to send you our stock list available. We are interest to make business with you and hope we have good relations business in near future Thanks and regards TITA Marketing division CV. Aquatic Indonesia aquatic@indo.net.id phone: +62-251-360715 / mobile : +62-813-10-58-58-35 Fax : +62-251-333786 <Thank you for your note. We will place your information on our site, www.WetWebMedia.com in the hopes others will contact you. Bob Fenner> Coral Farming questions 1/4/05 I perused what I believe to be most of the FAQs on the WWM site, and didn't find too much not of the retail/service side of the business.  I was specifically looking for more information about Mr. Calfo's previous business. If I am just another schmuck who did not find the site for all the answers to my questions, I am sorry for stupid questions.  Else could you please point me in the right direction? <no worries... here in your service> Such things as why'd he quit? <many reasons, not the least of which was a desire to travel, write books and spend more time photographing.> How much was he making at his peak? <working only four days per week (wanting to always spend more time with family, versus 5 or 6 day work weeks), I netted over 100K annually with a profit margin that peaked around 52%> How many employees did he have if any? <a one man band only> How many square feet? <1000> How long did it take to make ANY profit (I read in the FAQs a couple years, but I'm just curious)? <exactly that> How many gallons were his systems? <8,000 on the high end> Greenhouse construction (I've been reading, but most books focus only on plants)? <do check out the references in the back of the "Coral Propagation"  book... it's what they are there for my friend: where I bought sand, salt, greenhouse supplies, etc. For starters, you can try XS Smith for GH structures.../ and places like atlasgreenhouse.com> I am soon to be finishing my undergrad and will probably shoot for earning an Ms in Mariculture.   <you'd be better off getting a business degree, mate (seriously). But at any rate, please do take some business courses and be sure to complete a thorough business plan before making any fiscal move. There is great software out there to help you like Business Plan Pro> As of now a coral farm/import business is my dream, and has been growing for around 4 years now. <forget about importing as a long term option... you cannot rely on a living from it in the 10 year plan if even the 5 year plan. Focus on farming corals wholly... better profits, better for the environment, and more control over your project/income> Thank you very much for your time. Adam Beem <best of luck and life to you, Adam. Please feel welcome to share your completed business plan with me for a shared opinion. Anthony>

Source of fish. Hong Kong looking for Trop. W. Pacific and Madagascar Hi Bob I'm an importer of marine ornamental fish in Hong Kong. I would like to have your assistance for the followings to see if you can spare some time to help me with:- 1) Suppliers from West Australia, South/West Africa, Mauritius/Madagascar, New Caledonia, Coco and St. Helena; 2) Any Divers who can supply me with rare and special fish for export 3) Any body can supply me with rare, hybrid and special area fish Your assistance in this matter is very much appreciated. Thank you. Best regards DerbyAqua (HK) Derby T. The Manager Tel: (852) 9868 2820 Fax: (852) 2399 7006 Shop: (852) 2399 7007 <I will do as usual here: send your message out to friends/associates in the trade in the hope they will respond to you, your company as BCC'd recipients. I hope to meet you, perhaps visit your facility in future. Bob Fenner, presently in Hawai'i>

Re: Source of fish I'm sorry, but I cannot help, nor would I be likely to do so if I could.  I do not approve of the collection of rare fish without ecological surveys to ensure their populations are not impacted by collection. Best, Eric Borneman <Thanks for the input, referent Eric... wish this were a perfect world... Who would pay for it? Am content to try and make it better... and though I do encourage impact studies, surveys to determine what's there, optimum sustainable yields... am very sure that given crude collection techniques, the pet-fish interest has minimal relative impact (in comparison with other human and non-human aspects). Bob Fenner>

Request for Assistance Dear Bob     I would like to seek your help to introduce me to reputable/established suppliers of 1. Hawaii Fishes 2. Caribbean fishes & Inverts. , Especially Ricordea Florida 3. Fiji, Tonga, Solomon, Vanuatu -CITEs certified corals & live rocks We are a member of members of OFI & SAFEA. Since 1975 have been a major exporter of fresh water fish and plants to WW market. As part of our company expansion of livestock distribution into Marine Fish & Corals. We have also several different collection sites in various parts of Indonesia and group on experienced divers. I would like to seek your help and appreciate if you could kindly advise/introduce me to your supplier contacts in Hawaii, Caribbean & Fiji or etc. Kind Regards Peter Peh Aquarium Iwarna Pte Ltd Business Registration no: 199402607N Loyang Agrotechnology Park 70 Pasir Ris Drive 12 Singapore 518234 Mobile: 9755-7784 Fax: (65) 6583-3036 <Peter, as you appreciate I am leery of giving references to people, companies I am unfamiliar with. I am going to BCC a bunch of folks that collect in the areas you list here and hope that if they are interested, they will contact you. Hope to see you about, perhaps at the upcoming Aquarama in May. Bob Fenner>

Re: Request for Assistance Hi Bob,     thanks for your prompt reply. I saw Mr. Perry in the cc list, I believe he work in Sentosa Under Water World? <Actually... maybe a volunteer there at times> ........assuming the same Perry I came across.  If you happen to be in Asia, do let me know, probably can catch up over coffee. Kind Regards, Peter Peh <Will do so my friend. Perry helps another friend (Leng Sy of EcoSystems... makers of "Miracle Mud", there in Sing.) and am hopeful he might contact you... re a "character reference". I will be out in May for Aquarama, and hope that we might meet, chat. Bob Fenner>

Marine fish exporter? Hi Bob, <Alan> Very nice to meet you! <Likewise> I am a guy from China that wanna start my marine fish business recently and found your website is full of useful information. Thank you very much. However, may be because of some reason, you will not post the exporter or transhipper out. So, may you pls kindly forward my info. to the exporter from Cook Island, Hawaii, Costa Rica? Your help is highly appreciated. <Will do... I hope to make myself understood here: Am leery of making introductions when I don't know the parties well... Are you a member of OFI? I would check their directory and contact folks in these countries directly as well. Bob Fenner> Thanks and nice day! Alan Impact fusion from Hong Kong, China Fax: 852-30072717 Email: nickcwl2@yahoo.com.hk P.S. Capacity: willing to import more than 300kg per exporter from all over the world, twice a week.

Re: Marine fish exporter? Hi Bob, <Alan> Thank you for your help. I am not a  member of OFI and wonder if a small scale of company like me can join? B. regards, Alan <Am very sure you can, and encourage you to do so. Will you be attending Aquarama in 05? Hope to see, meet you there. Bob Fenner>

Re: Marine fish exporter? Hi Bob, Surely I will check with OFI website to register and hope to see in 05 fair. B.rgds, Alan <Real good. Bob Fenner>

Importing Marine Fish 10/23/04 Hi....great site <thanks kindly> I called Steve in Hawaii as recommended on Faq's,  but he was not interested in 20 boxes a time to Indonesia. <a small order indeed by industry standards... need to talk "containers" as in plane bellies> He recommended Underwaterworld or Golden Generation in LA  to supply <Hmmm... OK. I like Golden Generation very much. High Quality stock and systems> Unfortunately I cannot obtain their numbers....any suggestions <yep... be resourceful. Google searches on our site and abroad on the Net. And if that doesn't work... better still, if you hope to succeed in this/any industry... subscribe to the trade journals. There you will get a barrage of industry contacts and information including annual indices. If you'll take the time to read through the business pages of our archives... you will see repeated references to Pet Business, Pet Age and Pet Supplies marketing magazines. And speaking of being resourceful... you could simply call the Los Angeles chamber of commerce for their numbers> Just launched my site  www.aquarium-laut.com <best of luck> Please help as I urgently need to import Hawaiian , brazil and Caribbean fish. JD <slow down, my friend and get the information and experience you need first BEFORE importing live animals. Else you will be a statistic of (failed) business very soon (2-5 years). Buck the trend, snappy! Lets see you flourish by being the rare sort that is patience and heeds good advice <G>. Speaking of that... have you done a business plan? Truth be told... I know the answer :( A business plan/model forces you to ferret out the information you seek above and more. Please save yourself by doing a BP. There is fine software for it that can click you through with little effort. You will be amazed :) Anthony>

Importing Marine Fish II 10/26/04 Hi Anthony....thanks for your reply <very welcome> I was encouraged by your comments.  Regarding the business plan etc., I have been doing business here for 5 years,  it is a hobby that has turned into an operation that makes profit. <all the more reason to write and revisit a written business plan> I have been supplying 2 local wholesalers of  Indonesian fish with imported fish that I bring from Singapore, for a while now,  and 75% of my stock is pre-ordered.  The remaining 25% for my own loyal customers and display. <OK> The reason I want to go direct to the suppliers, is that I have calculated I can make another 30%,    <if they survive the transship/extended transit. The lure of money <sigh>> and also have a wider range of fishes, and not be dependant on an erratic supplier in Singapore. <OK> I spent many thousands of dollars to get the relevant licenses here, as I have the only one.  I would like to make the most of it. <OK> The reason I have been looking for direct supply is also to gain a feel for the pricing, so I can update my business plan. <ah... confused, but OK> Thanks so much for your advice though. Please take the time to look at my website, you will see some system photos in Complete Systems, as well as the Gallery. JD <interesting. Anthony>

Future transshipper/wholesaler I am beginning my transition from military to civilian life...I am sure of one thing I do not want to work for someone else.   <Everyone should be self-employed at least once... and married at least twice> I am interested in beginning a fresh water/marine transship/wholesale business in southern California. I wanted to have 100 freshwater tanks and 100 saltwater tanks.   <Okay> That I am sure about.  One of the things that is troubling me though is the tanks...I was quoted from SD Plastics each tank would cost me around $174.  Is that reasonable? <Mmm, how big are these? You REALLY should visit (you're welcome to come with me (we live in San Diego) and look over some existing operations... you do want "flat" tanks of a particular size (natural cuts of  4 X 8' sheets of acrylic make this so)... and your drains, stands that are sumps... made carefully> I don't think it is.  Is there a place where I could find equipment used? <Very possibly yes. Once again, the place to look, ask here is Los Angeles... the places still in business buy companies out who have closed, know folks who are going> I am trying to do this without financing any of my start-up costs. I hope you can answer my questions... Thank you for your time and help Ray Newlan <Let's keep chatting Ray, till you feel absolutely comfortable with this proposition. There are many critical things to know. I can/will help you. Bob Fenner, out in HI for the month diving for shells, running, drinking...>

Re: Future transshipper/wholesaler Ahhhh...Hawaii...the drunken sailor memories... The tanks from SD plastics were 24*24*12...that quote was actually from like the beginning of the year. <These tanks are too small to be of use. You will find that twice the gallonage can more safely accommodate three times as many organisms> Their quote kind of took my interest away from getting into the business. I would love to see how some of the operations here in the U.S. work.  You let me know when and I'm there... <I will be back in S. Cal. in early November> My wife and I have about 60 freshwater tanks in Tijuana, we run a wholesale business there.  A friend in Mexico City got us started.  Our set-up, in my eyes primitive, uses sponge filters where the fish don't pollute the water too much.  And my goldfish, guppy, molly set up is not a central filtration system but the water is constantly changing. <This latter is best> I am really eager to learn more and am all ears to whomever is willing to teach me something.   Thanks Ray <Help is available. Bob F>

Questions about importing Hello Bob. How's it going? My name is Brahm, I met you a while back at Octopus's Gardens down in San Diego (Before Jason moved to Florida). <Ah yes... and he may be coming back... maybe just flying with the hurricane winds!> We talked about my thoughts on opening up a store, well things are looking like they are moving in the right direction, but I had a question, and I was wondering if you might be able to help point me in correct direction.  I met somebody online, in Melbourne, Australia. Who came across some very nice Favias, and Acanthastreas lordhowensis & hillae. They are going to ship them to a friend of mine in New South Wales who can hold them for. She is also willing to ship them to me, but we aren't quite sure what we need to do on the Australian side to obtain the proper permits for a one time shipment if such a thing exists. <Yes... they do... there are some Customs forms to file and CITES permits... that hopefully can be filled out on the Australian end and used all the way through to (LAX?) here. A very good idea to actually see, ask around to see if you can "piggy back" your small order with someone in the area (LA likely) who will umbrella your few boxes with their "can" (airfreight container)... otherwise the cost for individually doing this is going to be quite high. I am going to cc a friend in the trade, Barry Neigut of Clamsdirect.com (who is, or has just opened a retail outlet in SD) and ask him for input here. Maybe he knows someone who will co-op your shipment.> What would be the best means to export these pieces from Australia? <The best? Don't know what you're looking for here... doubled 4 mil poly bags, clip closures, styros, cardboard liners... in cargo container quantities, with you receiving ASAP from customs, your freight forwarder... IF you have NOT done this before, DO go, chat with people in the trade who DO on a regular basis. Am going to cc another friend in the trade, Eric Cohen, who owns and runs Sea Dwelling Creatures in LA, and ask him if he'd help you here... Importing aquatic livestock is "not for the feint of heart" or "light of wallet" to put this mildly... "Things" go wrong... all the time... shipments delayed, re-routed, time lost and lost and lost... disputes with carriers... DOAs... You REALLY need a large, going business, holding facilities... to justify doing what you propose... unless you're "just experimenting" here or hoping to get some unusual specimens... all this is going to cost you a few to several times what these organisms will/would cost you by ordering, picking them up at a distributor...> Are there any coral export facilities that I might be able to go through (that are trust worthy with such rare pieces)? <Yes. Ask Eric here> Or would I be better of obtaining the permits on my own. I've talked to Dave over at Pacific Aqua, and I think I can use his Cities on Stateside, (or if you can point me to a broker). I would appreciate that... <This is very nice of the folks at PAF... if they will co-op with you and you feel comfortable dealing with them. They also definitely know what they're doing> Although I'm not too worried about the cost, I would like to look into maybe offsetting some of the expense by bringing over a larger shipment of other items (SPS, or hopefully more Acans if I can find them) which I can resale to diffuse the cost. <Bingo!> But my main goal is just to get the Acanthastreas lordhowensis as I have been doing quite well with propagating the current pieces that I was lucky to either trade for, or pick up at LFS mis-labeled as Blastomussa wellsi <I see> Included are a few pictures of the actual pieces. There are a total of 10. Thanks for your time. -Brahm Goodis. <Glad to be of assistance. Bob Fenner>

Re: Questions about importing Hey all, <Hi Eric, thanks for chiming in> From what I understand here, the corals are coming from Australia.  To  make this conversation brief, it's illegal to export corals from  Australia.   Unless you can get a cites permit from the government office  that works with cites permits...I think you are out of luck. If you find a way (a legal way), please let me in on it and we would be   happy to assist you and give you your best chances to get the corals here alive and economically. Best regards.....HI BOBBIE! Eric <Thanks mate. See you about. Bob Fenner>

Wholesaler Recommendation 9/8/04 Hi, Could you direct me to some reputable wholesalers for saltwater livestock and drygoods? Thanks Kelly -Corals and More <since any wholesaler is largely at the mercy of the variable nature of wild-caught organisms... its tough to say one is "best." They do not manufacture the fishes and corals they sell... and cannot assure which and what quality they will arrive in any given week. To the point... instead of looking for wholesalers, you should look for a professional "cherry picker" (AKA jobber) to select the best livestock from among the better wholesalers any given week for you. If you agree... do call Erik and Dennis Reynolds at Aqua Marines (www.am4fish.com). They are the oldest jobbers in LA... highly recommended by many folks, including me :). Aquarists looking to help their local shops and themselves in the process might pass this contact along. With kind regard to all, Anthony Calfo> TigerFish (HYDROCYNUS VITTATUS) Dear Bob I would like to enquire about a market for live tiger fish. Is there a market for live tiger fish? <Yes, but a limited one... do to their size, voraciousness, and difficulty in shipping (they don't move well)> Who would be the best candidates to purchase live tiger fish? Could you let me know if it is possible to export live tiger fish to the USA? <If I were a supplier, I'd try various freshwater wholesalers... or if you just wanted to sell to one, contact Steve Lundblad at Dolphin International (Los Angeles) re> Would it be possible to give me a couple of names of live fish distributors in the east (Japan, Taiwan, Thailand, China)? <Please see the O.F.I.s listing here> I heard from someone that there was a big market for these live tiger fish in the east, but after searching far and wide, I have not been able to get any detail ... Please can you help? Freddie <I don't think this market is large... I would look into selling at least other African species as well... Bob Fenner> Import question Is there a site, or a book, or a magic wand that gives ins and outs of importing marine species that doesn't take a PHD to understand??? <Mmm, no book or wand... but no need for a doctorate either> I'm trying to find out just what is holding up the importation of seahorses and seeing (since I cant get the cooperation from wholesalers) if its possible to just bypass the middle man and do it myself! <Possible, but expensive and time-consuming... Understand that the same sorts of economic restrictions apply to pet-fish biz as all others... the various governments are there to... control you and I, and pay for their civil servants through "taxes" (permits, fees...)... so, there is red-tape. And there are economies of scale at play as well... the wholesale sources need to sell a good number (usually hundreds) of organisms at a go to make the sale profitable... and the airlines charge much less per unit (volume, weight) in larger, regular shipments... and Customs is going to charge you a minimum fee whether you have one seahorse or thousands...> Can you point me in the right direction?? I've talked to my usual wholesaler, who blames it on Fish & Game. Fish and Game says its all about getting a license from the exporting countries..... <Fish and Game organizations at the state level have nothing to do with this... exporting countries/companies do need to have a few licenses to collect, export... e.g. CITES> .I know there is no easy answer but do you know who I can talk to either A) import myself or B) give the wholesalers a hand in getting it done?? Thanks! Jody Webb Frustrated Seahorse Addict <Do chat these issues over with the folks at syngnathid.com I suspect that the people there have much more pertinent information. Bob Fenner> Tropical fishes and reptiles from Nigeria Dear Sir/Madam, We wish to introduce ourselves to you. We are exporters of live tropical fishes and reptiles from Lagos Nigeria and are looking for buyers all over the world, so if you are interested, kindly contact me of advice me on introduce to me whom to export to. Thanks for assisting me. Emmanuel <Hello Emmanuel, we are not "in" the livestock part of the trade, but the information, education aspects. We will gladly post your contact information however. Please send along your URL if you have one, email address, physical address and a general description of what you offer. Bob Fenner> Opening a saltwater/coral store 7/1/04 hi, I am trying to find a trade magazine or shows on purchasing equipment  to open a store.  I also need the most local fish and coral suppliers  around the Jupiter, fl area.  thank you very much. Deborah <do look for Pet Business, Pet Age and Pet Supplies marketing magazines online (Google search). Also, membership in the trade organization PIJAC for demographic info and support on writing and revisiting your business plan as the years go by, market data, info, warnings, etc. HH Backer puts on trade shows along that have been popular for years although not very focused on fishes/marines. The MACNA hobby conference is also on of your very best places to network with other retailers and manufacturers along with advance aquarists from across the nation. Start with these leads and delve into our archives here at wetwebmedia.com with FAQs and info collected through the years (you'll see a link on the index page for "business" info. Best of luck, Anthony>

Rare marines, source, wholesale Hi Bob, Anthony, <<  Adam B. here >>        I have been working at a store for several months, and have had a hard time getting a few select reef fish. I know they come in, but it is not always possible to order Misc fish on the list, due to not knowing what will come in. I found one fish on a transshipper's list, but I'd prefer not to order from them($300 minimum) for just a few gobies($3 x 12 at most). Do you know any wholesalers who get from Leader Aquatics?  << Ooh good question. I don't personally know of any, but that is a good question for Bob, so I'll redirect this to him. >>        I have even tried contacting some retail etailers, such as the Marine Center, and have not had any luck finding the fish. The 2 fish I am looking for in particular, are the Pink Streak Wrasse (Pseudocheilinus ataenia) and Graceful Shrimp Goby (Lotilia graciosa.) Any help/leads are much appreciated. << See what I can do. >> Thanks. Joe <<  Adam B.  >>

Source for hard corals and marine fish Hi Bob I am a wholesaler/retailer from Singapore. <Ahh, we visit there a few times each year. A fantastic country, paragon of excellence> I have been trying hard to look for source to import CITES corals like Acropora, Ricordea mushroom, maxima clams etc and also Hawaii marine fish. <I see> I would appreciate if you could assist me by providing/recommending me some source that provide exportation of the above mentioned. <I am bcc'ing a number of friends in the trade who will hopefully contact you... the few Hawaiian collectors I know of are now retired, but I can/will look up contacts for you next time I am there (Please contact me re in mid August)> I look forward to hearing from you soon. Best regards Thomas Teo <A pleasure to help. Bob Fenner>

Hi From Fiji (and link to ad) Dear Mr. Fenner, We have a company in Fiji that has been exporting Live rock , Coral ,and Fish, sometimes all, or individually, for the last 10 years, we are quite small, and often go unnoticed, and our competitors are quite visible!. <Hee hee! Good way of putting this... some are indeed very large in size and ego!> I have seen your Wet Web Media and find it quite interesting, and I have seen and heard your name quite often, so I decided to write to you, I am not sure if you would like to know about us, just in case our website is, www.waterlifefiji.com, ( if you click on it I think it will take you there, I hope), if there is anything I can contribute to, please let me know, hope to hear from you Thanks Peter Savona Waterlife Exporters (Fiji) Limited PH(679)9930001 <Will gladly post your note and add your URL to the marine/reef links pages. In turn, do make it known if we may be of assistance... mainly in the realms of social introductions to individuals, business in the trade, content... And I hope to "run into" you, perhaps write up an article on you, your endeavors on a trip out to Fiji (I make it out there once, twice a year). Be chatting, Bob Fenner>

Hi From Fiji Dear Mr. Fenner, Thank you for your kind words and support, and for such a prompt reply, sometimes I get the feeling of an orphan!. I am originally from Malta, in the Mediterranean, I have been keeping freshies since I was 10, and when I migrated to Australia I got seriously into marines, it was actually a spearfishing accident, I shot a small bottom dwelling shark and when I started to clean it up, 10 pups with egg sacs popped out, so I quickly tired to setup a tank, of course not knowing anything about nitrifiers etc, LOL, from there, to trickle filters coral and so on. <Ahhh, a quintessential experience> Somehow some years later, by which time I was a telephone linesman by trade, I landed a job as an aquarist at the Underwaterworld at Manly's in Sydney, I was lucky to have a Boss that was a walking encyclopedia, Chris Warner, and I learnt so much stuff from him, about a year later I also worked under him again at the Mooloolaba Underwaterworld in Queensland for another 6 months, an even more interesting setup. <Another fortunate series of incidents> Since 1990 I got involved with Waterlife Exporters (Fiji) Ltd, becoming the second eldest company in our industry in Fiji, the first is Tony Nahacky of Aquarium Fish, another extremely knowledgeable man, with incredible diving and collecting ability, I then resided in Fiji permanently since 1992, and now am the principal owner of Waterlife. <Tony is indeed an amazing individual, and a tremendous asset to the trade> I'll be honest I came here to catch fish, but since Ocean 2000/SDC and WSI, it became necessary to export Live rock and Coral or simply not survive, there was also the Segrest's for some time with Tropical Fish (Fiji) Ltd which went out of business, their Phillipino divers did terrible damage to our fishing area, fortunately the reef has incredible ability to recover. <Am familiar with these folks, troubles... am surprised you and I have yet to meet> For some time I depended solely on live rock and dealt with a Mike Phalen, of Aqua Direct, he is what I think they call a "jobber", ( i don't know if that is  a good or bad term in the USA, so forgive my ignorance), i.e. he has no facility etc. Unfortunately he still owes us US$34,000.00, this nearly wiped me out, but somehow we survived. <I... will make inquiries re this... It is my desire that the trade be rigorous in its dealings... and I do not condone thievery> We have a 7000 sq foot building with three separate systems, fish coral and live rock, and we used to ship 4.5 tonnes of live rock into LA for 4 or 5 years, and not to boast were told it was the best rock around, now unfortunately the price war with my big competitors is so ferocious, and they have counterpart facility's in LA that support them, I don't, and still have to freelance for buyers, and after being bitten three times in the US, I now require pre payment, and I can't get a foot into LA!!. <I am a huge fan of Fiji rock (and Fijians)... as you will find from my writings. And I can see from your website that you employ similar excellent practices in your dealings with local people, techniques of cleaning, curing. The LR product from Fiji is largely responsible for the growth, size of the hobby worldwide...> I'm sure you must also know how complicated life has become for us with CITES, and the new quota system, between you and I, it is really arbitrary, and it is really hurting. <I agree... had a short conversation with Dieter Brockmann vis a vis Kirby's involvement in a writing project and the "evolution" of this bit of "law"... unserving to anyone> The only consolation I have is that I brought in a consultant from Australia 3 weeks ago, his name is Paul Hough, I think he has Dr in front, he was responsible for the Great barrier Reef Aquarium in Townsville, and he also agrees that CITES is being rather heavy handed . <We might start a club...> We are kind of struggling a bit, I have been trying to sent up an ocean based coral farm, we have already spent around US$15,000.00 on it, but somebody tried sabotage it, ( you guessed it, a competitor), it is a pity really because it is for better sustainability, and a good education tool, specially since we are located in Suva, the capital. we will try to get it going again once finances permit. Although I know that propagation is a buzz word, but I really am interested in it. I am actively looking around for funding, and yes if you happen to know anybody or organization to apply to please let me know, I do need the help, and would be thankful for any advice. <Kudos to you and your company for seeing into the future> If you do happen to come to Fiji, please do let me know, it would be wonderful to meet you, Thanks again Peter www.waterlifefiji.com <Will do indeed. Thank you for sharing your insights, experiences. I look forward to our meeting and chatting further. Bob Fenner>

Re: Steve Robinson... One of many dissatisfied experiences... You might want to ask Steve Robinson when he plans to pay his Asian fish suppliers the tens of thousands of dollars that he has owed them for years. There is a question of continued bankruptcies and letters of non payment. Is this something that might cause concern? I guess it depends on what you really care about. <... you might try addressing Steve directly re... I am not aware of where he is, what he's up to presently. Bob Fenner> 

Clean vs. Dirty lists Bob---Do you know anything about this???? Suze Dear Ms. Crews, I am a subscriber to your magazine, a long time reader and enjoy every issue very much. I recently received a seed catalog from J. L. Hudson Seeds and read an article in the catalog about the proposed "White List" that supposedly is a plan by certain groups within the US government to ban all importation and possession of fish, plants and virtually any living thing. I find it hard to believe. Please tell me, what if anything do you know about it. Thanks, David Noll Harlingen, Texas  <Mmm, well, there have been occasions... revisions of the Lacey/Black Bass Act... that have proposed a "clean list" (as they have in Australia) versus what we currently have (a "dirty list") of organisms specifically disallowed... much easier for extremist governments to allow in just a few... in the name of "environmental protection" (we need to get rid of most government actually)... But have not heard this nonsense sprouting back up again. Bob Fenner>

Fish business in Macedonia 5/1/04 Hello from Macedonia, <cheers, my friend> Carefully reading for several time Mr. Fenner and Calfo books (and normally some other authors), I have build and manage my own reef successful aquarium and finally here is a idea of an small fishy business in my country (there is no one with salty stores in my small countries). <wow! very exciting... glad to hear it> Generally problem is obtaining quality live stock. Indonesian exporters have no good relation to my country. <this is not a problem or concern. Due to the young/weak market for reef animals in your country so far, and your present inexperience with (ever) receiving raw, transshipped animals... you should not import directly from Indonesia or any such, likely. You will honestly suffer too many losses from the stressed, weak animals and your "newness" to the trade. Instead, you should look for a reputable wholesaler in a nearby country that can sell you stable, acclimated creatures at wholesale prices. They will be more expensive (slightly) than buying direct from Indonesia per item... but they will be far less expensive overall for the reduced losses (mortality and morbidity). Germany is the strongest market for our hobby near you. France after that... some in Italy and a little in Greece too.> Me myself is especially interested at captive raised corals and fishes. Maybe Antony can help with some information and contacts. <they are dealing a good bit of both in Germany and France, I hear. My advice would be to use a good search engine for each country (like google.de or google.fr) to find some big retailers. Then, send a polite request to some of them for advice on suppliers. Since you are in Macedonia, I am sure that some of these folks will realize you are no competition for them and be kind enough to recommend a regional supplier for you. Alas, I do not know of any by name in Germany or France> Thanks in advanced. Boris <I wish you the very best of luck in business! Anthony>

Macedonia business II 5/2/04 So glad to hear from you. BTW what happens with book of BOCP volume 2, come on, Tarantino makes movies volumes faster :) <true... but he makes them badly <G>. His films are almost as bad as his acting. Well... nothing is as bad as his acting , I guess :p Heehee.... seriously, though. I delayed BOCP2 so that I could work with Bob on the NMA series. We did volume one for last year, and are finishing volume 2 for this year. I will try to finish BOCP2 for early next year> Hope you will include some images for better references in next volume. <perhaps not much different, to be honest (although the Italians are working on a fully illustrated translation). The problem is that it is so expensive to produce these books and we make relatively little from them. As such, my first priority is to get the information/text out there... and then I'll illustrate it as best I can afford. Unless you know a wealthy widow that needs a pool boy? Ha!> About an Indonesian exporter, I have already experienced an bad live stock conditions, <ughhh... sorry to hear it my friend. Yes, please do not tranship... to save you money and save animals lives, this is not for you/me to do. Better for the big wholesale facilities> but unfortunately no company from Europe answer my calls (Amblard in France etc.). Still some recommendation or contacts will be very useful. Regards Boris <you can e-mail me after May 18th and I may have some answers for you. I'm going to Germany for the Interzoo conference. You really should consider going to such events if you can afford it. Really, if you can afford to be in business at all, then you must afford going to such trade shows for information and networking. I'll see what I can find for you there, my friend. Kind regards, Anthony>

Macedonia business III 5/2/04 Well... be sure I will look for help after an Interzoo Antony. How know, maybe will see you there. Best Regards, Boris <yes... that would be excellent my friend. A pleasure to see you there and good for your business and future success! Anthony>

Lithuania seeking corals and marine fishes  Dear Sir or Madam,  We writing from Lithuania from R. Januskauskiene Company. We would like to ask one kindness. We look in your region Company, which can sell by wholesale the corals and marine fishes and which can to transfer these goods to Lithuania. We have find some firms on the Internet but they can't prepare the customs documents and selling only in they country. We understand, that this question is not strange to you, but we don't know how we can in other way find partners to sell corals and marine fishes. If you think that we ask to much, please, excuse us, but we search the partners in other continent (Europe), so we can make to you competition.  Thank you in advance for answers and we wish to you good luck.  With best regards,  Director Enrikas Januskauskas  <Are you attending InterZoo next month in Germany? If you can, I would. Otherwise, do avail yourself of the OFI's directory: http://www.ornamental-fish-int.org/members/members-directory.asp   Bob Fenner>

Lithuania, InterZoo Dear Bob Fenner, We will be in the INTERZOO in Germany. Please, tell us how we can find you? <We are not exhibiting, but will be attending. I'll look for your booth and introduce myself then/there. Bob Fenner> With best regards, Enrikas Januskauskas

Going Big Time in the coral reef organism supply biz  G-Day Bob  My name is Chad Peters from The Reef Keeper. I have been in business for about 9 years. I have bought from everyone out their some of the best stuff came from Walt's place without any question of course. I have recently moved to Florida from Boston. I am in the process of setting up a outdoor greenhouse well actually it will look more like vats sitting out side no real greenhouse. Screened in not really covered. I have allot of connections all over the world Solomon's Bali, Jakarta, Indo, Fiji, Tonga, Marshals etc. I also know allot of people here in the U.S. Well let me get to the point. I am contacting you because I see you help allot of people with business relations. Joe Steble from? Brian from Holiday coral, Golden Ina and Wave Rider in LA. All get the best Indo. propagated coral and Vietnam Clams out their do you know where their getting them from?  <Some of their sources I am familiar with, yes>  also would it be in my best interest importing directly myself or working with someone else. that I have mentioned?  <Really depends principally on three factors... principally on whether you can justify the volume in terms of what you can handle, sell in a period of time... buying direct calls for large volumes (dozens of boxes, hundreds to thousands of organisms/pieces in a shipment... and Your knowledge, facilities and tolerance for dealing with troubles... CITES, Customs, the Airlines... MOST folks are much better off NOT buying direct from collectors, culturists... from the ultimate sources... too much hassle, too many organisms for them to handle, sell, lose>  Holiday is very expensive I did get nice stuff though. I will be selling as a wholesaler in south Florida so price is important. I also have allot of stores in the Northeast also. Allot will be shipped too. Thanks for your time will be waiting to here from you.  Thanks  Chad  The Reef Keeper  <I would think this move over very carefully... When you believe you are ready to try buying direct, re-contact me and I will help direct or re-direct you to someone who is honest and competent to try an order. Bob Fenner>

Re: Going Big Time in the coral reef organism supply biz  Hey Bob Thanks for the quick reply. I am serious about an order in about a month set up isn't complete. I would like to know who it is that is honest and good to deal with I probably have every supplier out their I just need to be redirected as you could probably imagine I have about 50-60 suppliers across the globe. The one I'm looking for is probably sitting right under my nose?  Thanks again  <Maybe... though everyone has to order from a few suppliers... please understand me re advising you in these matters... I must need be SURE that you are also a credible player... You have how many gallons to your set-up? It is subdivided into how many sub-units... for inverts, fishes, individual shipments? Bob Fenner>

Indo imports Hey Bob Chad Peters here, I e-mailed you a couple of days ago asking you questions about importers in Indonesia. You said when I was ready to take this on get back to you. You wanted to know what kind of setup we had in south Florida. We have a state of the are indoor holding facility here. Witch holds 10,000. gal. it is bran new. my partner has been importing from Indo for 8 years already. He does allot of fish to the Miami area and some coral. I am the coral guy I have 50+ stores throughout the east coast. I currently have a outdoor facility witch hold 2000 gal. This is where we will hold all out imported propagated coral. I am dealing with one farm in Java but there is another farm in Bali I would like the info on that farm. I just can't get enough from one farm for supply demanded. Weekly order is 1000 pc. per week I would like to get another 1000 from another farm. Thanks For Your Help. Chad Peters CORALZ, Inc. <Does sound like you're large enough, established, can justify the volume... there are a few farms in Bali... are you familiar with OFI? http://www.ornamental-fish-int.org/mainpage-banner.asp?aid=9580&gid=4790 Take a read through their members directory. Bob Fenner>

Living in Japan  Bob,  <Mike>  I had a couple of questions to ask and was also wanting any information that you can add to my questions in case I did not ask the right things or more help that you can provide me..  <Okay>  My job is transferring me to Japan next month and my wife is going to be giving up a very good job to go. We have 5 saltwater aquariums in our house now that we are planning on leaving behind. I do not want my wife to have nothing to do for a career in Tokyo and marine fish are a strong passion of ours so we were thinking of opening an aquatics store or maybe a wholesale business and importing fish from all over. My wife's family owned a couple of stores here in Texas before that they sold a few years ago, so she is familiar with the business. I am asking you these questions as I know that you lived in Japan before. My questions are:  <Ahh, a friend (James Fatherree) was just out visiting with me in Hawai'i... he has been teaching English in Japan this last year... and writes mainly about marine invertebrates>  1. How do the Japanese take to purchasing marine fish and invertebrates?  <Very well... they are the number one/ichiban source for the best organisms... all head to Japan first... as they pay the best>  2. Can you import corals into Japan from Indonesia and Fiji?  <Yes>  3. Are there many stores that sell marine fish?  <Depends on where you are... the larger towns have many good stores, the smaller ones none... BUT they are quite hard to find in any case... VERY important to emphasize that you two should learn as much conversational Japanese as you can, AND partner up with some folks who are facile in both languages>  4. Is there a wholesaler in Japan that you know of?  <None personally>  5. In your opinion how would a store or wholesale business do in Tokyo?  <Don't know well enough to state. Worth investigating however... if you will be there a good 3-5 years... would take that long to really develop>  6. If later on I was to maybe get into breeding clams would they sell good as I know the Japanese like to eat them?  <Uh, no... unless you mean "culturing them elsewhere"... better to import from Vietnam, the Philippines... as ornament... much more profit margin>  7. Is it a hard process to breed clams if we decided to get into that later on?  <Not difficult but demanding in terms of arrangements for location, power, human issues... these projects take a lot of cooperation with local people... years to develop to the point where they are going concerns. Travel around a bit and check out at least two such farms... many important lessons to be learned>  Any help or tips that you can provide me on these issues is greatly appreciated.  Sincerely,  Mike  <Glad to be of assistance... do visit with folks in the trade in and around the area where you hope to do businesses of these sorts... Your wife might enjoy working in a retail setting owned by others there... I did. Bob Fenner>

Re: Living in Japan  Bob,  Thank you very much for all of your help. It will assist me very much in the direction to go. As you already know you provide an awesome service to people so keep up the good work.  Thanks,  Mike  <Doh tashimashiite my friend. Bob Fenner>

LA Wholesalers Bob, <Adam> During my stay in LA, I plan on visiting some of the wholesalers. I remember hearing along the way that some are "WWM friendly". Can you recommend the best few to see?  <Quality Marine, Sea Dwelling Creatures, Underwater World, Walt Smith in various companies... all on 104th near LAX... maybe down to All Seas to the south... Freshwater?> I have been to and plan on returning to SDC and Pacific Island Imports. Do I need to let them know in advance that I am coming? Will I be able to make purchases? Will it have to be cash? <Not necessary to call ahead... unless bringing a group, maybe making a bunch of pix... Will be fine to just "show up", but do identify yourself if asked who you are... and you are welcome to mention my name. Buying drygoods, livestock? There may be a snag here, at least in terms of volume (most all places have a posted minimum purchase)... but do ask, and bring some proof of your involvement in the trade... It may be expeditious to have items shipped to a store in PA (piggybacking) instead of trying to haul then and there. Bob F> Thanks! Adam

Wholesale/transship question  Hi =)  Very short question (I'm sure you appreciate that).  I'm attempting to make contact with people who can import seahorses to the US.  I've dealt with some wholesalers in California, but its a rough road. I think I would rather see if I can attempt to get them straight from a catcher (I know I know, I have to order tons to justify shipping, but I'm working on piggy backing orders with people)  Can you help??  J.Webb  www.seasofseahorses.com   <From where, what mix of species are you seeking? Do you already have friends to break pack shipments with? Bob Fenner>

Wholesale/transship question Thank you for your quick reply Mr. Fenner =)  I have a friend that already transships corals and fish so yes, I have someone to break a pack with, though honestly, I have no clue just how big a "pack" is /grin  <An important question, criterion... if possible you want to have a "container" (usually an L3...) looks like a myomere/muscle segment in a 747 400 (Boeing cargo jet)... a certain number of boxes... depending on their size and shape (different in various parts of the world)... but this would be a quite large number of organisms>  As far as species, how about a few weedy or leafy sea dragons? /wink  <As far as I'm aware, these are "allotted" only to research and public aquaria... I realize you're joshing.>  Actually, as long as someone is already carrying corals and fish, and can offer a couple of different species of horses, I'm not picky, but if I have to pick a "best" I would say Brazilian species, since they are going to get very hard to come by soon, I hear.  <Yes... Hippocampus erectus... even Carol and Craig (had drinks and pizza with them a week back here on the Big Island) of Ocean Rider are having a time getting some>  My market is fairly open however, as people are simply wanting healthy, happy seahorses =) Any direction you can send me will be a great boon.  Sincerely  Jody Webb  www.seasofseahorses.com   <At this juncture I am referring you to the OFI, http://www.ornamental-fish-int.org/mainpage-banner.asp?aid=9580&gid=4790  Please see their Members Directory... and contact the companies listed that ship marines, including H. erectus. Bob Fenner>

Re: Wholesale/transship question /faints at the size of the list.... <No need to faint... do look at the Brazilian members... if you're looking for...> Actually, the Brazilian species I was thinking of was H. reidi =) but I wouldn't turn my nose up at a few H. erectus either. I was joshing about the seadragons??? Hmmmmm /grin  Thanks for the help, I guess I just spam the fish world with emails.  /wave <No need to spam... do look over the five or six Brazil businesses... some list seahorses I believe... Bob Fenner>

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