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FAQs on Centropyge Angelfishes Disease Treatment 

FAQs on Dwarf Angel Disease: Dwarf Angel Disease 1, Dwarf Angel Disease 2, Dwarf Angel Disease 3, Angels and Butterflyfishes & Crypt,
FAQs on Dwarf Angel Disease by Category: Diagnosis, Environmental, Nutritional, Social, Trauma, Pathogenic, Genetic,

Related Articles: Centropyge Angels, C. loricula/Flame Angel, Lemon/y Dwarf Angels, A Couple of Lemons; the True and False/Herald's (nee Woodheadi) Centropyges, Potter's Angels, Reef Safari! Keeping Multibarred Angelfish By Alexander Thomasser,

Related FAQs: Best FAQs on Centropyge, Centropyge Angels 1, Centropyge Angels 2Centropyge Angels 3, Centropyge Angels 4, Dwarf Angel Identification, Dwarf Angel Selection, Dwarf Angel Compatibility, Dwarf Angel Systems, Dwarf Angel Feeding, Dwarf Angel Reproduction,

The industry continues to use copper compounds for treating Protozoal complaints. I encourage you instead to look into quinines.

Angelfishes for  Marine Aquariums
Diversity, Selection & Care
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by Robert (Bob) Fenner

Help with a new Potter’s Angel      8/24/19
Hello WWM Crew,
<Hey Gil!>
Hope you all are well!
I am contacting you today with regard to a new Potter’s Angel. I purchased it from Live Aquaria Diver’s Den, and he will be going in a 90 gallon Hawaiian endemic SPS tank.
After doing some research on this site and elsewhere, I’m wondering if my normal quarantine procedures need to change for this fish.
<Let's see>
I typically only treat with Praziquantel, and observe the fish carefully for ich for another two weeks after completing the Prazi treatment. This is done in a 2’x1’x15” tank, with a seeded sponge filter from my sump, and the smallest piece of live rock I can safely remove from the DT. If I dose anything other than Praziquantel, I know these are both gone forever but the live rock makes too big of a difference in the fish’s health for me to ignore. There’s also a couple pvc elbows for hiding in.
I know this is not enough space for my new angel (2.75”) and Potter’s are prone to sudden stress related deaths. He appears healthy after 24 hours of observation, other than attacking his reflection most of the day. Do you think it would be wise to truncate the QT procedure and move him straight to display in this particular case?
<I do count this Centropyge as one of the species that is generally better to "expedite" through quarantine. UNLESS there is/are compelling reason/s otherwise (apparent damage, disease), the majority of times it is better to use a simple pH adjusted freshwater bath to reduce the possibility of external pathogens and place new Potter's directly to the display/main tank.>
<Some background re here: http://www.wetwebmedia.com/dips_baths.htm
and the linked files above. Bob Fenner>
Re: Help with a new Potter’s Angel     8/25/19

Hi Bob,
Thanks for the quick response!
I heeded your advice and the Potter’s is now in my DT.
Unfortunately, now I have a second issue- my Kole tang is rather furious about his introduction. Seriously, I haven’t seen aggression like this since keeping Mbuna Cichlids years ago. I’ve added tons of fish since having the tang and there was never an issue- frustrating it targeted such a sensitive fish!
<Happens... do occur in same areas, are competitors for space, algae... >
I’ve already tried rearranging aquascape to no avail. Any other tips?
<Catch the Kole (two nets, maybe two people) and place it in a floating plastic colander (yeah, a pasta et al. strainer) for a day... with the lights out. Likely will allow the Potter's time to become established, take some of the vinegar out of the Ctenochaetus. BobF> 

Lemon Peel Angel Treatment 11/10/12
Hello WetWebMedia Team!
I have a question concerning my Lemon Peel Angel. It has been in quarantine for a few weeks now. I had noticed that around its eyes they were getting very dark and appeared to be pushing out from it's head.
<Mmm, not good>
Usually you could see the beautiful blue around its eye, but the black was appearing to be pushing its eye out. I also noticed that its mouth had turned white, rather than its yellow color. It almost appeared like its mouth had worn away or was deteriorating.
<This too>
It didn't appear to be any growth on its mouth. I didn't know if it had hurt itself from bumping into the glass, because it does bump the glass very often.
<Am wondering, why?>
My LF said it sounded like it may be a bacteria so they suggested I soak its food in Metronidazole.
<I wouldn't do this... better by far to seek out or just do what you can to "solve" probable water quality issues, perhaps nutritional deficiency>

They suggested its food be soaked in a "measure" or small scoop for 5 days.
I have noticed that the eyes are looking much better and its mouth is looking much better. Its mouth is actually turning yellow again. Do you feel the 5 days is good enough to treat this?
<Yes I do. Metronidazole is quite toxic in successive exposure>
I also was not sure where to go from here? How much longer should I keep it in quarantine?
<I would move this fish post haste to the main/display>
It looks great besides this issue. Once it is ready to transfer to the main tank, how long of a bath should I give it?
<A few minutes>
Should it just be a freshwater/ph/temp adjusted bath or should I do another type of bath?
<The former>
When I do the bath, if I was to see parasites in the water, should I feel safe to continue the transfer or should that signal I should put it back into quarantine?
<For flukes, back into quarantine, for treatment>
I'm getting a little confused on the key things to pay attention to when giving a good dip/bath. I wanting to make sure I am paying attention to the key signals along the way that tell me to stop and turn back. I appreciate your insight. You have helped so many times. We are learning so much.
Brent Wells
<Ah, good. Bob Fenner> 

Clownfish/Hammer Coral and multicolor angel questions   12/30/08 Hello and Happy Holidays - Thank you for your website, knowledge, and assistance! I read, read, read and then can still not believe that I missed an important piece of information or still don't understand something. I guess that's why this is a good hobby for me. Never boring. Always something new. <Agreed> I have been in the hobby 5-6 years and recently revived my saltwater tank after a home remodel - tank ran with a heater, rock, and sand for almost a year. Now I have been re-stocking and re-learning for a few months. My 100 gal tank (black sand, lots of live rock, 30 gal sump, ASM skimmer, very small and young HOB CPR refugium) has good water parameters (SG 1.025, T 79, Amm/Nitrite/Nitrate all zero, PH 8.1-8.2). My two primary questions: 1. I have 2 black clowns (with orange faces) that are in the process of pairing up. Overall, they seem to have settled down, but I still see them nipping at each other now and again. They have elected to host in my Hammer Coral. The Hammer seems quite tolerant of this and looks actually very well. They have been living in this coral constantly for the past 3-4 weeks, took to the coral about a week after it was introduced to the tank. Days 1-3 very happy and in the hammer coral most of the time Day 4 fluffy cotton hanging from both fish Day 5 or 6 cotton resolved Days 6-8 very happy Day 9 Small slits in fins on both fish Day 12 or 13 slits healed entirely Days 13-15 very happy Approx Day 16 both clowns had more severe reactions to the coral. The smaller could not close his mouth. The larger developed a very swollen and puffy-looking face. Small clown moved away from the coral and resided in another area of the tank. Day 18 Smaller clown can close his mouth but has a very puffy face. He has a split lip with red around it. Extra vitamins given in his food. Day 23 or 24 lip heals but face still quite puffy and clown moves back into coral Days 25-27 very happy (in coral constantly, nip at each other occasionally, eating well) Day 28 Split caudal fin with cotton on the smaller clown, face more puffy (1/2 is paralyzed?), moves away from hammer again. Still eating well. Larger clown face still puffy (maybe a little less?), living in coral always, eating well. (Is this too much detail? Sorry if so). <Not too much... good to have complete picture> My thought has been "Hopefully this will sort itself out", <And it generally does... Percula/Ocellaris clowns do establish relations with Euphyllias in captivity... often course through the sort of process you relate so well here> since they are eating well and the smaller seems to be managing his illness to some degree on his own. The swollen faces have been for more than 10 days now. They look very much "allergic" and not infectious. I would like to continue to watch it and hope eventually that this will resolve on its own. Is there a time limit for how long I should allow this to go on? <Mmm, no, not really... Till the two species either "agree" or not to associate> Also - the day of the open mouth and swollen faces was the same day my peppermint shrimp was picking on that coral and pulling on its polyps. Would the hammer have been potentially more toxic that day? <Interesting to speculate...> (I have since removed the pep). 2. My multicolor angel (in quarantine day 11) developed 3 white spots (2 on the caudal fin, one on a pectoral fin). These remained for 36 hours and then vanished. Debating on what to do, I coincidentally broke a heater in the tank and had to remove him in order to clear the tank of glass. Therefore, I cleaned out the quarantine tank and have placed entirely new water in the tank. The angel is in a smaller 4 gal holding tank waiting for the water to fully heat and aerate. (I didn't have quite enough water ready for the whole tank). This angel is extremely skittish, <A sign of good health> and I question whether or not he would tolerate a FW dip as he attempts to jump out of the tank upon any slight stressor, although he really looks well otherwise. (During acclimation, he tried to jump out several times, even with a lid on - also tried to jump out when I had to net him to remove from the QT and clean the class out.) I am on the fence of "Oh no I need to do something" and "Let's see what happens" due to my lack of experience overall. <I would, do default to the latter... non-action in cases of doubt> Trying the minimal approach when possible. Do you have any tips for doing a FW dip in a skittish fish, or would you just skip it altogether? <As you hint at, to be in constant attendance, make sure the dip container is covered...> When I dipped my coral beauty angel a number of weeks ago (since then I killed her with copper despite my attempts at careful dosing, thus my aversion to any intervention unnecessary) I was amazed at the things I saw coming out of her and falling off of her (flukes and such), so I do think FW dips can be helpful. Sorry for the long descriptions. Thank you for your assistance. Lynn M <Thank you for writing so well; completely and clearly... There are some "extra" ideas, methods that might be added to my long-stated dip/bath protocol. For instance, the use of practical anesthetics (akin to "doggy downers" for canines that need to have their nails trimmed let's say)... "Hypno" by Jungle Labs is "over the counter", and there are other materials that might be profitably employed... Bob Fenner>

Flame Angel will not eat while being treated... coppered  3/1/08 Hi guys, I bought a flame angel fish and placed him in my 10 gallon quarantine tank. He was doing well and eating every type of frozen meaty foods that I fed him in addition to eating algae from a clip that I put in the tank daily. He was eating voraciously for over a week and now unfortunately he has come down with a case of Ich. I am treating the tank with Copper but now he has stopped eating. He hasn't eaten for 3 days and he seems to be hanging in with the copper treatment but I'm afraid he'll die from starvation while I am trying to cure the Ich. Do you have any advice for how I can get him to eat? I have tried putting some food in the tank but he just lets it float by and does not go after it like he did before. I'd hate to lose this fish! Any advice you could offer would be much appreciated! Thanks, Lynne <The copper... is mal-affecting this fish... causes it to go off-feed... I would NOT pre-emptorily copper Centropyge, Angels period... See WWM re Copper use, poisoning... I would summarily dip/bath and move this Flame to the main/display tank. Bob Fenner>

Parasite Identification... Flame angel... perhaps env.  12/10/07 We are very new to marine aquariums, we started up our first tank 3 months ago and have found lots of very useful information on your site! First off our water perimeters: <parameters> Ammonia-0, Nitrite-0, Nitrate-around 20, <Borderline high> KH-9, SG-1.025 We haven't had any problems so far until today when we noticed our flame dwarf angelfish has a visible raised white spot near her tail fin. <I see this> She has been in the tank for two weeks now and is eating well, behaving normally (as far as we know), she is not itching at all and is very active all day swimming around the tank, breathing seems normal. We have attached a photo, maybe that will help, the slight white patch you see above the anal fin is just a reflection of light, the only patch on the fish is the big one at the top of the base of the tail fin. We do not have a quarantine tank, as we live in a very small apartment in Amsterdam and don't have any space but we recently got a 15 gallon tank that we were planning to turn into a refugium today but maybe we could turn that into a hospital tank if necessary?? Do you think we need to treat our fish immediately? <Mmm, I would not. I would go ahead and add this tank as a/the refugium though> And what with? Freshwater dip? We have invertebrates in the tank (shrimp, crabs, feather dusters, cocoa worms) and don't want to harm them by using any copper based medication in the main tank. We have searched on the web for identification and cant find clear information or a definite identification. What do you recommend we do? Thanks for any help you can give us, much appreciated!!! Jess P.S. Your website is amazing, thank you guys for getting us this far!! <This mark does not appear to be pathogenic-derived... Perhaps is resultant from a physical injury some weeks prior... very common. If it were me, mine, I would strive to improve the environment (e.g. eliminate the NO3) via the refugium... mud/sand, macroalgae culture, DSB there. This spot will clear in time with improvement of the system. Bob Fenner>

Angelfish and white spot, spare the formalin   7/7/06 I purchased a Coral Beauty Angelfish 2 weeks ago.  He is in QT.  Yesterday, I saw what looked like a white pimple on the front of his pectoral fin.  This morning the white spot is gone but his fin is frayed.  I thought he might have Ich but I am not sure since it was one spot and was gone today.  He is eating normally. Should I treat with Formalin or observe longer? <The latter. Is not likely parasitic/pathogenic... the formalin is far likely a source of trouble than help>   If I treat with Formalin, do I just do a dip or do I also treat the QT?  Or is there something else I need to do?   I have looked through FAQ's but still was not sure what I should do. Thanks much for your help, Jana Gibbs <I would not use the formalin here. Too toxic, too stressful to be catching, manipulating this Centropyge. Bob Fenner>

Bicolor angel/disease?   3/4/06 Hi Bob <James today> I'm a huge fan and love your book. <Bob thanks you.>  I have a 125g FOWLR tank that's been running for almost three months now.  My bicolor angel just started to rub his face against some of the LR yesterday and has no physical signs of any parasites. <May be too early to see.>  He's  looks good and has been eating fine though.   Do you think this is the beginning of ICH ? <Don't know> What should I do right now ? <I'd watch closely and at first sign of disease transfer to QT.> Leave him there or give him a dip and QT for several weeks? I was thinking of doing a five minute Methylene blue  dip and QT with Cupramine for two weeks. <I really don't like treating fish unless I know for sure that they are infected.  Was the fish in QT before going into the display?>  In the main tank I also have: 1 blue throat trigger, 2 Clarkiis, 3 Chromis Your help is highly appreciated.   It's a tough hobby, <Not so tough, as long as we don't make it tough.>  buts it's people like you who keep us going ! thanks <You're welcome.  James (Salty Dog)> Peter 

Re: Ich treatment for dwarf angels  8/27/05 FYI... dwarf angels don't do well with a full dose of rid Ich.  all  three are now dead.  ph, salinity, ammonia, nitrite, and nitrate were all  very good.   after two weeks of treatment Ich was not totally gone.   maybe it was the Ich...maybe it was two weeks of formalin.  none the less,  very unsuccessful. <Beware of formalin... a biocide. RMF>

New Flameback angel (Centropyge aurantonotus) fat belly Hi. I bought a Flameback 2 days ago and noticed that he has an enlarged belly and that he has a white patch at the bottom of his belly, near his anal fins. <From stretching?> Should I treat him with antibiotics - I'm thinking he got infected because he may had been decompressed with a needle. <May be...> Or should I treat him for internal parasites? <No> If I do both, which treatment should I do first? <For "blockage"... add a level teaspoon of Epsom Salt per ten gallons of system water...> Thank you for website and the great advice that you give. Oh...water parameters in my 10g QT are all good. NH3=0, NO3=0, SG=1.025, temp=78F. <Hopefully, this too shall pass. Good luck, life. Bob Fenner> 
Re: New Flameback angel (Centropyge aurantonotus) fat belly
Thanks Bob, but the little guy did not make it. I found him dead this morning.  I am curious on how to determine if a Flameback has internal parasites vs. "blockage" or internal infection.  <Can be necropsied... cut open for investigation, microscopically examined. Can do, or have done, a histological work-up. Bob Fenner>

A useful, instructive case study of Centropyge keeping/disease 8/1/05 Salutations all.     This morning I noticed several white spots around the mouth and eyes and on the fins of my coral beauty which I believe to be Ich.  I dipped the fish in freshwater and moved it to a 10 gallon bare bottom quarantine tank with sponge filter, in which I am lowering the salinity to the 1.010 to 1.012 and raising the temperature to 82.  Is a product of such as Aquarium Products Quick Cure safe for Cent. angels [it is the only non copper med at the LFS], or is it even necessary?   <Mmm, you might want to read re this product (copper and formalin) on WWM... useful, but with a narrow range of efficacy>       I am struggling to identify the source of the Ich.  The tank is 9 months old and approximately 45 gallons.  It has 50 pounds of live sand, 30 of live rock, an Aqua C Remora skimmer and an Emperor 280, ph is 8.2 and ammonia, nitrite, and nitrate are at 0.  6 months ago I added a lawnmower blenny, yellowtail damsel, and the coral beauty after month long quarantines each, during which I observed no disease.  There is also a skunk cleaner shrimp, and various Nassarius, Cerith, and Astraea snails, which were added after the tank initially cycled.  The only source I can think of is when the fish themselves were introduced to the tank, <Most likely, yes> but I have again not observed the disease until now, and now only on the angel, and am under the impression that Ich cysts can only remain dormant in the tank for 1 or 2 months.  Am I mistaken? <Mmm, no. There are instances of such "new" Ich occurrences with longer dormancy, but they're rare>   The angel eats readily and does at times swim furiously along the back glass. <Not atypical behavior... may be seeing a reflection...>   I am sure that it does occasionally scrape itself or hit its head on the glass, could this have stressed the fish, making it more susceptible to the disease? <Yes> Any ideas? <Mmm, this tank is too small a volume... Please read here: http://wetwebmedia.com/marine/fishes/angels/centropyge/index.htm Am hopeful that postings on the linked files above will be useful. Bob Fenner> Much obliged. Patrick

Quarantined dwarf angel Greetings all.  <Hello, Jim.>  I have had a flame angel in a ten gallon quarantine tank for ten days. The tank is bare bottom, with a sponge filter, MaxiJet 1200 powerhead, and a piece of PVC for shelter. The fish looks very healthy; it is active and will eat nearly anything that is put in the tank. Anyhow, I have always had problems with high ammonia levels in quarantine tanks, and have measured increasing levels to about .25 to .5 as of this morning. I have been doing one or two gallon water changes every other day, with tap water treated with Prime and mixed with Oceanic salt. I also added a packet of BioSpira on the fourth day after testing ammonia levels of .25. Ammonia went down to 0 for a couple of days, but is now steadily increasing again. Would it be okay to do a freshwater dip and move the fish to the main tank, or is there something else I should do? Thanks to you.  <Jim, to be on the safe side, a minimum of 21 days @ 80 degrees to be sure. Preferably 28 days. With the sponge filter, keeping 3 to 4 hermits (feeding them of course) in there on a continual basis should maintain a decent bio filter that would readjust quickly with an added fish for QT as long as copper isn't necessary. For now, I'd add the BioSpira if levels exceed .25. James (Salty Dog)>

Flame angel ill I have had my flame angel for almost 6 months.  I came home today and noticed what seems to be white mucous on its gills, fins and tail. <He could have a slime coating from something irritation him> He is also swimming about quite fast so I'm having a real hard time getting a good look at him.  I don't know what it could be (I've read ick looks like salt, this doesn't look like salt, I don't know what ick looks like I've never had a fish that's had it or anything else for that matter). <First thing I would do is a water change. That's the first thing I always do when I have a fish that appears to be having problems.>  I have no idea what it is or what I should do. Any advice on helping Tigger would be great! Thanks. <The other possibility could be Lymphocystis. But it looks more like cauliflower growing on it. I really believe something in the tank has irritated him and he has a big slime coat. You need to figure out what did this AFTER you get him back under control. A water change is the first step to getting the water conditions correct.  Good luck Kelly from MacL> Kelly  

LEMON PEEL SCRATCHING Dear Bob, <Hi Brenda, MacL here to try to help you. I think Bob is off diving, where I'd like to be I might add.> Please Help!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! I have had a Lemonpeel angel in a 10 gallon quarantine tank for 2 weeks and she is doing some scratching. Before I go into my fishes illness, I wish to say that setting up and maintaining my quarantine tank has been a real challenge. The only reason I kept with it is because of all the pro-quarantine info. <It truly does make a difference.> I have read. This last time ,I attempted to cycle my tank, everything seemed to go better (I cycled my tank with 2 green Chromis for 2 months then returned them to the pet store when done). My QT has a small powerhead and the Marineland 125 BioWheel, no substrate, and a fake rock thing she can hide behind or in that is made for saltwater aquariums. Well with everything appearing fine, I did small water change and then went to get my angel. I knew she would be a challenge but I did as much research as I could.  After having her in the QT tank for a week, my levels started going funky again( ammonia levels going up, nitrite levels going up etc.)<The addition of the food and the fish caused a mini cycle.> I did some water changes to pull my levels into the correct ranges, used Kent Ammonia Detox a few times, and cut back on my feeding. Levels at this time are: Ammonia 0, nitrites<.3 but the color is not a strong yellow, Nitrates 20ppm, pH 8.0-8.1 ( I am having to add a pH buffer every day to get pH to 8.1),KH 14,Calcium 420,salinity 1.021,temp 77-78 degrees.  I use Tetra tests do all my testing. <Something seems off, if everything else is up there your ph should be as well. Do you have a friend or a local fish store that could check your tests?> Well I think the combination of water quality and stress from water changes has stressed my fish and she has started scratching. She does not flash along the bottom of the aquarium but scratches around her eyes and gills. She has clear eyes and does not have any white spots or discolored marks on her body. Her two side fins have some spots on them but she has had that since the first day I have had her and that has not changed. <Could be a variety of things causing it> She is still eating well (she loves romaine lettuce, spinach, and Ocean Nutrition number 1, and will munch on Ocean Nutrition frozen Angel formula )is very personable, but she will periodically go into a fit of scratching on something and twitches as if she has something in her head. <There are multiple things that could cause that.> I went to my local pet store and they told me so many conflicting things I am confused. I know I need to get my water quality under control (all water changes done with RO/DI water). I have heard about dipping a fish and inquired about that at the pet store but they did not advise that because of the barbs on each side of her gills. <It works for parasites but its possible that something is just irritating her.> I tried to pull up articles on dipping but my computer is going funky, I just hope this letter reaches you. I did read an article that stated you should do a water change with half salt water from your established aquarium and half fresh water, would this help keep things more stable in my QT? <Putting the water from the tank in would also put the established bacteria into the tank and that might help some.> Also, I read some of your articles on lowering the salinity in the QT tank but once again, I am afraid to do that because of my water levels. <Hyposalinity works great for Ich but its possible what you have isn't Ich. Usually with Ich you do get the white dots.> Also, I am scared to treat with copper because of this type of fish and because my levels are so touchy. <I really hate copper, I think its done more damage then help. But there are cleaner shrimps and neon gobies etc that help with parasites.> Should I do a fresh water dip, if yes, please tell me the appropriate procedure. Lastly, when I did a water change I rinsed my filter pad in saltwater and there was a whole bunch of little crawly things in the rinse bucket. <That's curious> I have never seen anything like this before.  Could this be something that is making her sick. <Depends on what the little crawly things are.> I used a small piece of live rock from my main aquarium to attach food to in the QT. <In that case could be copepods and they are a good thing.>I have not seen anything like this in my display tank.  Thank you for any help you can give me. P.S. Can you recommend a good product that would help pull my pH up? I personally like the HGH blocks they seem to help stabilize the tank but I think its a good idea to double check your tests to be on the safe side.> Sincerely, Brenda

Sick Flame Angel (4/12/04)  Hi. Thanks in advance for taking the time to answer my question. <You're welcome. Steve Allen tonight.>  I have a 90 gallon FO with some live rock (1 Chromis and 1 flame angel). I have had the flame angel for over a week now and has been eating well (Mysis shrimp, formula 2 flakes, plankton, and just got some pygmy angel food because my tank has brown diatoms but no green algae for the flame to graze on). <Oops! No quarantine?>  Recently I noticed that the flame's color has paled quite a bit since I got him (especially his lips which are whitish), his fins look frayed and is swimming slightly erratically at times (up and down the side of the tank). His gill area is slightly gray in color as well, but no white spots or other signs of Ich. I know he's sick, but what is it? Ich? <Doubtful--the little white spots are classic.> He's still eating well <a good sign> and I'm unsure how to treat him. I know flames are copper sensitive. I thought it might be a water quality issue but all parameters are fine (ammonia 0, nitrate 0, nitrates 20). I just did a 5% water change in case. <Always smart. Sometimes bigger changes (30-50% or even higher) are best if a true toxic crisis is suspected.>  If I treat him, do I need to put him in QT along with the damsel (who looks fine; my QT is a 10 gallon set up a week ago) or can I dose Formalin into the main tank (will that kill the live rock?). <Will kill many desirable things. Never treat the main tank.> I guess I can't bear the thought of stressing him out by moving him into QT. <It's not really stressful. You can keep it darker in there and have some PVC fittings to hide in.> Do I need to then leave the tank fallow for 4 weeks if it's Ich? I'm really unsure of where to go from here. Thanks kindly, Angela  <well, this is a tough situation that could have been avoided by proper 4-week quarantine prior to introduction into the main tank. Again, I doubt Ich. Amyloodinium would be another consideration. Do look at some pix. However, this disease usually causes rapid breathing and is quickly fatal. I'm more worried about a bacterial infection. You really need to move this fish out of your display. I'd consider treating with an antibiotic. Keep the water in great shape & feed adequately, but not too much. It's OK to leave the Damsel behind for now if no signs of illness. If you suspect parasites, both fish need to be treated in QT and the display tank left fishless for 6-8 weeks. Unfortunately, a lot of Flame Angels have been doing poorly in recent years, especially for certain areas where cyanide is used, so it is not uncommon for them dwindle & die over the first few weeks. You can read more about this on WWM. Hope this helps.>
Sick Flame Angel 2 (4/13/04) 
Steve, thanks for your advice. <My pleasure> After reading more of the FAQs and articles, I suspect a bacterial infection as well, and not marine velvet. <OK> The main tank water has been slightly cloudy (which I attributed to the brown diatom algae growth) but now I suspect it is bacteria (?). <Could be> There seems to be a fine dust on the water's surface which the skimmer hasn't filtered. <A common occurrence in SW tanks. Try skimming it off by running a paper towel over the surface--it should stick to the paper.> I will move the flame to my QT, but which antibiotic medication should I use and where do I get it (Checked out marinedepot.com and they don't carry it, neither does my LFS). Please advise. My flame (his name is hot lips;) is still eating  but looks paler today;( -a <Sorry to hear. You might want to try Melafix, which is a natural tea tree product with antibacterial properties. Treating with actual medications is a bit of a problem because you don't know for sure whether is a gram-positive or a gram-negative bacterium. A broad-spectrum antibiotics such as Kanamycin or Nitrofurazone (available on the internet--search with Google--may be your best bet. Another option would be to start with Maracyn (gram-positive) and add Maracyn 2 (gram-negative) if a rapid improvement is not noted. These two products should be available at your local PetSmart or Petco. If not, try www.drsfostersmith.com  and search under fish for "antibiotics." Hope this helps. Good luck, Steve Allen.>
Sick flame Anger 3 (4/14/04) 
Hi Steve. Thanks for the reply again-your help is invaluable. <You're most welcome.>  I went to another LFS and Kanacyn was recommended to help with the frayed fins, pale coloring/lips and grayish gills. <Glad to hear that you found some. I gave the flame a freshwater dip but had to cut it short-at 30 seconds he twitched and keeled over. <Would not try again. This treatment is only of value for parasitic infestation.> I don't know if that did him more harm than good. I put him into the QT (10 g.) right away last night and administered the dosage of Kanacyn. The only remaining fish, a b/g Chromis is still in the main tank for now and still disease free.  My dilemma now: The QT has never cycled completely and so I had to siphon 10 g from the main tank to replace toxic water. Also, I was told the medication might destroy beneficial bacteria, which would hinder cycling anyway.<True> This morning it was (borderline) ammonia free and did a 20% change from the main  tank. I plan to do a 50% change tonight, but I'm really worried that the fish will suffer from the ammonia more than anything. <Yes, there is little possibility of establishing biofiltration in a medicated tanks. Water changes are key. I would measure ammonia daily and do 50% water change daily.> He looked good this morning (better color, and was still eating but hiding in pvc pipe). <Glad to hear this.> When I conduct daily 50% water changes, should I take this water from the main tank, and then replenish the main tank with synthetic saltwater, or should I use freshly made saltwater for the QT water changes? <I would use freshly mixed to avoid any possible contamination of the hospital tanks.> Due to lack of space, I only have 2 5-gallon buckets, so the saltwater will have aged for 1-2 days only (I usually age the water at least a week, but can't with such a high volume of water changes). <2 days with aeration should be plenty.> Also, do I need to re-dose meds accordingly with these frequent water changes? <I would simply give the recommended dose shortly after the water change. This should preserve its activity against bacteria.> The treatment recommends 5 day of antibiotics, but I'm assuming I should keep the fish in QT at least 2 weeks. (I recommend 4 weeks after completion of therapy to be sure that the fish is truly healed and to watch for other infected fish in the display tank that might need treatment too. Thanks for the help, -a very worried and stressed out (maybe more than the fish!) Angela <You are doing very well and have every reason to hope that this fish will recover. Good luck. Do keep us posted. Steve Allen>
Sick Flame Angel 4 (4/16/04) 
Hi Steve (thanks again for all the help) <Well, I hope it's really helping.>  It's about the flame again! To follow up, he looked better when I first started the Kanacyn treatment, but now he seems to have developed a whitish clump on his fins, and I did see him rub up against the pvc a couple of times and twitch a bit. <Possibly a sign of parasites.> He has some raised dots on his gills (one kind of looks like a white pimple). <About how big are these?> Did he develop Ich now? <Possible.> I don't want to put him through a freshwater dip again (see below). <Understood.> It's day 4 of the treatment, and I have one day left. Should I continue? Or start treating him with something else after changing the water? I am still constantly battling ammonia levels by doing 50-75% water changes daily; he's still eating well, has clear eyes, and has good color. Really confused <It can be very confusing at times.>  <Check some pictures of Lymphocystis to see if you think the whitish clump could be this. The white spots are suspicious for Ich. I hesitate to recommend a stressful treatment like copper or Formalin. Another option would by hyposalinity by gradually dropping SG down to 1.010 and keeping it there for a while. With the Kanamycin gone, you can build up your biofilter, possibly with Bio-Spira Marine. Read about these issues in the Ich articles & FAQs on WWM. The fact that your fish has better color, is active and eating is very encouraging. Keep working with it. Steve Allen>

Bloated Beauty (2/2/04)  I'm resending this b/c my images were too large, sorry for that! <No problem.>  Hi all, <Steve Allen tonight.>  You guys and gals have been so helpful in the past now I am calling upon your expertise for a fish I believe is at risk. I have a Coral Beauty that has become excessively fat (bloated) over the past couple of days. <Yikes. Does look very uncomfortable.> He/She is in QT and has been for the last week; in which I have lowered the salinity from 35ppt to 17ppt, I was going to go down to 14ppt  tonight but "alarm" my prize fish is in trouble. <Is he in the QT for this or for something previous?> This coral beauty is ~5 years old and was big before the bloating but now it is enormous and looks like it is having trouble breathing. I have attached some pictures so you can see the girth. Should I add Epsom salt, or do I need something else. Thanks in advance from me and the fish. - Ryan  <Epsom salt is helpful for simple constipation. Lowering salinity is good for external parasites, but not internal. What is the purpose of your hyposalinity treatment? I'd be a bit worried about internal parasites or even a tumor. Consider treating with an antihelminthic. You may even want to consult an exotic animal vet in your area. Is the fish pooping? What is the poop like? I think that saving this fish is going to be an ongoing, intensive-care process. I recommend that you start a thread in the 911 forum at www.wetwebfotos.com to seek input from a number of experienced aquarists. You can more easily maintain an up-to-the-minute dialogue there. A lot of great folks there would love to help. I'll follow along there too. Hope this helps. Steve Allen>

- Ich on Flame Angel - Hello Crew, I really appreciate you looking at this for me! I brought home a 3" flame angel last week.  It looked great in the store, but as is often the case developed Ich spots a couple of days after I brought it home.  I have looked through the Centropyge FAQs, but am a little confused. Should I dose with copper, should I fw dip?  Opinions seem to be mixed about this regarding this genus. <As long as the fish is in quarantine, I would dip first, Formalin later if things don't seem to be on the mend. These fish are sensitive to copper so a weaker-than-normal dose is what's in order, or Formalin will work against Ich. Do not medicate the main tank.> He is currently in a 20H bare bottom QT. <Excellent.> I have been treating with RidIch, which is a Formalin/malachite green mixture for the past 3 days. <Then after 14 days, should be Ich-free.> I have been able to bring quite a few specimens back with this stuff. However, this fish seems to be getting more spots everyday. <Do check the water quality - likely need to be swapping out about half that tank every other day to keep the water quality in check. You'll need to add your medication after the water changes to keep the therapeutic level of the Formalin in an effective range.> I am feeding him Mysis soaked in Selcon and a little garlic. <Ahh... good on the Selcon, I've about lost my faith in garlic to do anything but load up the skimmer.> He is eating pretty well.  I also have some Nori in the tank for him.  He nibbles on this from time to time.  What is the best coarse of action for this situation? <You are on the right path.> Any advice is very much appreciated. Thanks, Jeff <Cheers, J -- >

Lemon Peel Angel I have had this Angel fish for almost two years.  It is in a 29 gallon tank with a Percula clown.  Recently the angel has gotten a hole in the tail fin and its fin on its back seems to be eroding.  I do regular water changes and monitor the ammonia and nitrate levels.  Any ideas? <A very small world for this species... it might be that its puny dimensions are manifested by the current development... or that what you're seeing is due to an ongoing nutritive lacking... Do you have much live rock in this system? I would add more/new... and try boosting the vitamin content of other offered foods by soaking them in a prep. like Selcon. Any chance that Santa might bring you a larger system? I hope so. Bob Fenner> Claudia Dimercurio

- Coral Beauty Problems -  Good evening gentlemen,  I am having a real problem with my Coral Beauty. He will not eat at all, and there is some mucus looking material on his head. It also looks funny where his fins connect to his body. <Funny how? An actual description of this would help... it's not obvious from the photo.> I have had a problem with really bad hair algae lately and I am pulling my hair out trying to control it. <Please read here and the FAQs beyond: http://www.wetwebmedia.com/algaeconMar.htm > For some reason the fish are hiding all the time and I do not know why. I checked all the water parameters and they all seem in line. <What does that mean? What is 'in line'?> I did a 20% water change anyways and they seem to be doing a little better. <Sounds like your water quality may not be as 'in line' as you thought.> Any thoughts at what is wrong with the Coral Beauty? <Sounds like issues with water quality.> I want to help him but I do not have a hospital tank setup yet. <Time to get one... not much to set up. Get it running, have plenty of new saltwater made up and ready to do daily to every other day large water changes. No need to cycle a quarantine tank.> Any help would be sincerely appreciated. <Please read here: http://www.wetwebmedia.com/mardisease.htm > Below is a link to a picture of the coral beauty if that helps. > Tank Setup:  55 gallon tank  1 Clownfish  1 Coral Beauty  60 lb live rock  4" sandbed  Power compact lighting  Marine Life Aquatics AVS-90 Skimmer  Emperor 400 Filter  2 powerheads  1 heater  Thank You For Your Time, Jim - Pittsburgh, PA  <Cheers, J -- > 

What Happened to My Flame Angel? Cu poisoned - 08/24/03 <Hi Luke, PF with you tonight> I bought a Flame Angel two weeks ago with 3 other fish (clown, banner fish and raccoon b-fly). I've quarantined them. The fish got minor Ich a few days ago and I've added Cupramine as prescribed. Ammonia levels 0, nitrite 0, Ca 460, ph 8.3, high alkalinity, salinity 1.023, temp 26C. Ich disappeared after 2 days. Today I have noticed that my flame angel was turning white and was swimming kind of on the side near the surface. This was 4 days after adding Cupramine. The other fish are fine. There are no external signs of anything... no bacterial infections, Ich etc... nothing... What has caused this? IS the fish going to die? I've changed most of the water to fresh, but after 3 hrs there's no improvement. <Well, this could be a side effect of your use of copper. When you use copper you should always test it, and be sure and research the fish and their reactions to it. Clowns for example, are very sensitive to copper. How big is the QT tank you're using, and have you placed some pieces of PVC in their to act as an artificial reef?> Thank you, Luke <Good luck Luke, hopefully your fish is doing better.>

Dwarf Angels, Copper Treatments I'm sorry to keep bugging you.  <<No worries.>>  Do I need to adjust copper dosage for dwarf angels or just proceed with normal dosage.  <<I wouldn't unless this particular fish is especially small and potentially a juvenile. Even then, I wouldn't reduce it by much.>>  Thanks Rich. <<Cheers, J -- >>

Treating a Flame Angel for Ich Hello.  I have a flame angel in quarantine that I just got two days ago.  The fish looked and acted fine at the LFS,  with no signs of illness.  But yesterday he developed Ich and wouldn't eat any flakes or frozen brineshimp.  Your site seems to recommend the use of copper as a treatment, but I have heard that flame angels do not do well with copper because it eats away at their internal organs.  I can't seem to find any information on the procedure for using hyposalinity effectively.  Since the flame angel isn't eating, I don't think that garlic would work.  Should I go ahead and treat with copper?  I'm at a loss... any help would be greatly appreciated. Thanks in advance. Lisa    <Hey Lisa, good call using the QT tank.  You are correct, copper is not good for dwarf angels.  Try treating with a formalin based medication and freshwater dips.  -Gage>

SICK FLAME ANGEL I just purchased a flame angel from the most reputable fish dealer on the net. Fish looked great in the bag, very bright red. Unfortunately, I had to move the aquascape after I released him into the tank. I did not quarantine the fish because it is the only fish in the 75 gallon tank and based on where the fish is from I've never needed to<You always need quarantine even if it is the only fish in the tank. > I now see where I was wrong. After 24 hours, the fish is pale white on the sides and scratching against rocks like a madman. It has no apparent Ich spots on fins. Do I need to set up a quick quarantine tank, stress him out further, or is there a chance that him being the only fish in a tank that big he can kick it on his own with time?< Leave him where he is for now but if he does start to show spots he will need to be treated in a separate tank and your main tank will need to go fishless for at least four weeks, a cleaner shrimp would be beneficial > All levels are zero, and he has absolutely no competition. He picks at the liverock, but won't even chase Mysis shrimp. I'm really in a bind because this fish is so beautiful. It's a tiger striped variation of the flame. HELP! <Try feeding him an angel preparation such as the one made by Ocean Nutrition.  Please read through the pages highlighted in blue below for more info on quarantine and the flame angel. http://www.wetwebmedia.com/quaranti.htmad http://www.wetwebmedia.com/marine/fishes/angels/centropyge/loricula.htm Hope this helps, Cody>

Lemonpeel Angel and dipping Hello Guys, <Salute, goombah! Anthony Calfo in your service> Just one question on giving a Lemonpeel Angel a Methylene Blue/Fresh Water dip. Is it safe to give a Lemonpeel a 5 to 10 minute dip? Read the FAQ's and your page on Centropyge but didn't find my answer. I am planning to purchase this fish and just not sure if I should dip the Lemonpeel. Thanks very much! Ron <a properly conducted freshwater dip of at least five minutes (aerated, buffered, temperature adjusted, etc) is fine for the angel... towards ten minutes with discretion. The problem is the Methylene blue. Centropyge angels are sensitive to metals (like copper) and organic dyes (like Methylene blue). Do consider Formalin instead for the medicated bath and follow mfg dose. Freshwater alone is fine too if you believe the fish to be in good health for starters before going into quarantine (you are putting him in quarantine right?!?) Kindly, Anthony>
Re: Lemonpeel Angel
Anthony, you are a good Dude.  <yes. thank you... when I'm not being a strict marine Nazi (remember the soup Nazi episode on Seinfeld?), hehe...> Definitely going into the Q-tank. Thanks Again, Ron <excellent! Best of luck to you, Anthony>

Coral Beauty trouble (Bob's turn) Bob, I have a Coral Beauty I just purchased Saturday and placed in a 20 gallon quarantine system. The fish seemed healthy at the store; bright colors, active, clear eyes, nice plump shape, etc. I have it in a 20 gallon long by itself with a set of barnacles for cover, a heater, thermometer, and Tetratec 300 filter seeded (for 4 weeks) with bacteria from my 55 gallon tank. I have tried to get it to eat everything I have, frozen krill, frozen plankton, frozen Formula Two, flake Formula Two, and Nori. It won't touch a speck of food and now has very cloudy eyes and is not very active. Any ideas?  <Perhaps "just shock" from collection, being moved about... some Centropyge species are consistently like this... I would either move this animal prematurely (as in not waiting for the whole two weeks quarantine interval) to a stable live-rock equipped tank (through a freshwater bath process), or place some thoroughly cured LR in the twenty with it (as food source and to stabilize water quality)> My water parameters are 78 degrees, 0 NH3, NO2, NO3, and 1.023 salinity. I have the fluorescent light that came with the tank on for twelve hours a day. I don't know what could be the problem so I don't know what to do to try to help this beautiful fish. Please help by suggesting what could be wrong and what I should do. Thanks again, Amy <Please read through the parts of WetWebMedia.com re "Quarantine", "Dips/Baths", and the genus Centropyge for more background. Bob Fenner>
Coral Beauty trouble (Anthony's turn)
Bob, <Bob just got back from Indonesia and I'm praying to the gods of long term vision that he has not returned with a thong tan. Anthony Calfo in your service> I have a Coral Beauty I just purchased Saturday and placed in a 20 gallon quarantine system.  <good job!> The fish seemed healthy at the store; bright colors, active, clear eyes, nice plump shape, etc.  <for future reference too... play Bob's "deposit game" with them by placing money if possible down to hold the fish and let it sit on import for at least a week if not two. A quick turn around is otherwise hard on a fish> I have it in a 20 gallon long by itself with a set of barnacles for cover, a heater, thermometer, and Tetratec 300 filter seeded (for 4 weeks) with bacteria from my 55 gallon tank. I have tried to get it to eat everything I have, frozen krill, frozen plankton, frozen Formula Two, flake Formula Two, and Nori. It won't touch a speck of food and now has very cloudy eyes and is not very active. Any ideas?  <the no eating is not a surprise and not that much to worry about. The cloudy eyes is an issue. Do medicate with Furan based drugs to play it safe. Look for secondary symptoms of parasites too> My water parameters are 78 degrees, 0 NH3, NO2, NO3, and 1.023 salinity. I have the fluorescent light that came with the tank on for twelve hours a day. I don't know what could be the problem so I don't know what to do to try to help this beautiful fish.  <consider a FW dip if parasites seem evident. Else the antibiotics for at least 5 days. Find an algae covered piece of rock for it to nibble on too> Please help by suggesting what could be wrong and what I should do. Thanks again, Amy <best regards, Anthony>

Lemonpeel Angelfish Hi, I have a Lemonpeel Angelfish that has a white wart looking thing on his  anal fin. What kind of disease is this and how should I treat it? Thanks. <I would leave it alone... maybe try a cleaner shrimp (Lysmata species) to clean up this biological blemish. This sounds like either a case of Lymphocystis or a tumor of internal origins... in either case, manipulating the animal, treating it with chemicals won't help, but hurt. Bob Fenner >

Well, I think problem is something else.. (Sick Fish... knowledge value...) Well, as I told you last Thursday, my lionfish died. My angelfish (Bicolor Angelfish) seemed alright. I got a coral beauty on Sunday. <Hmm... so soon... and two Centropyge in how large a system?...> Later in the day however, I noticed a small grey sore-looking mark on his back, right in front of the dorsal fin, and above the eyes. Well, its day two now, and it's grown a lot. This white-looking material has spread. I looked it up, and its supposed to be "fungus" or a bacteria. <Supposed to be?...> Anyways, I got Saltwater Maracyn to hopefully cure whatever was inside the tank affecting the coral beauty. Well, it turns out that body-fungus, which is what I suspect my coral beauty has, also has symptoms of "body scratching" which I believe I told you my lionfish did, and also cloudiness of the eyes (another thing my lionfish had). Unfortunately, I wish I could of treated the tank when I first noticed the lionfish acting odd. Also, my Bi-Color angel fish is "scratching" himself along the coral, and the bottom of the tank. <Uh, oh...> I read that low water quality can affect fungus too.. helping it grow.  <Yes, well put> I have 0 nitrites, 0 ammonia.. as for PH however, I'm a little confused. Normal range is between 8.1-8.4 I have 3 saltwater PH test kits. One said my PH is 7.4, another said it was 8.3, and the last said 9.0! <Have someone with a working kit test your water... and test your kits against known pH samples... junk the bad ones... look to the brands mentioned on the piece on pH, test kits and FAQs on the www.WetWebMedia.com site> Well, I'm going with the one that said 7.4 since that's the 'newest' one I got, and it tests for nitrites, ammonia, and nitrates. Well, if my water is really 7.4, I never knew, since my other two PH kits told me different, so I added some buffer to the tank to raise the ph <See above... Don't "go with" a given kit because of its age...> I hear that having crushed coral as a bottom substrate is bad for a saltwater tank, since it's a refuge for fungus to grow. Well, I have roughly 3 inches of crushed coral on the bottom of my entire tank. <What? No... where are you getting this mythinformation?> Basically, I'm hoping the Maracyn can cure whatever is affecting my fish, but I now know (I think anyways) that the lionfish most likely died to whatever is affecting my only two fish right now. Any suggestions you have to help keep a "fungus-clean" tank? I feel like I've done a lot, but maybe something I'm missing. <There is no such thing as a "fungus-free system"... only ones that are more/less optimized to host a minimum of decomposing organisms/populations... You need to find the real cause/s of the apparent problems here... It is entirely likely that the Coral Beauty Angels appearance is due to "stress" in general (shipping, handling...), and little to no value in treating the system with Minocycline (MarII)... Do read over the archives of some of the listservs on the net re disease, environment...> So I'm treating the tank right now, and I plan to do a 30% water change in 3 days when the Maracyn treatment is over with. <The water change will definitely help... as might "environmental manipulation"... lowering spg, raising temp... see the WWM sites "Disease" sections under the Marine area...> And, I'm also removing the crushed coral as a bottom, and putting in normal sand. Any suggestions you have would greatly be appreciated. <What is... "normal" sand? Please read over the "Marine Substrates" area and FAQs on the WWM site as well... I would NOT remove the current substrate while your livestock are having problems... Do you have a sophisticated marine aquarist friend who can come over, look over your shoulder and check your system, maintenance protocol out? Bob Fenner>

Vertical angelfish Bob, I have a Japanese pygmy angelfish that was until a few weeks ago. The problem is that she swim almost vertically all the time, head up. Her pectoral fish are going like crazy and her tail only moves in small quick wiggles. <Not good... sounds very much like internal problems... maybe from decompression during collection...> Is this a swim bladder problem or something else? She has been eating all the Ocean Nutrition foods but just looks very odd. <I do hope the fish "straightens out". This does happen at times> Do you have any recommendations on what to do with her? The system is fish only with a few invertebrates, all the other fish are fine and eating good, the clams and anemones I have are also doing good. Please let me know what you think, thank you in advance. Dave Wilson <Wish I had more to tell you, but this sort of complaint either solves itself of its own accord or... not. Bob Fenner>

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