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Small Marine Aquariums
Book 1:
Invertebrates, Algae
New Print and eBook on Amazon:
by Robert (Bob) Fenner
Small Marine Aquariums
ook 2:

New Print and eBook on Amazon: by Robert (Bob) Fenner
Small Marine Aquariums
Book 3:

New Print and eBook on Amazon:
by Robert (Bob) Fenner


Hi there from a fan, setting up my first saltwater reef aquarium. Stkg. Plans!      4/15/20
Hi there, WWM staff / Bob, I’ve been a long time fan of yours and I am a Chinese hobbyist who is about to set up his first ever saltwater aquarium.
It’s been a long-time dream and passion of mine since I was 7 or 8 (I am 23).
<Ahh! Pleased to meet you Andrew>
So, I am planning to go for a 4 foot tank that’s 120cm by 60cm by 55cm which would give me about 105 gallons to work with. My proposed stocking plan for fish is as follows, and my corals will only be soft corals. I would love it if you can suggest some easy and very bulletproof soft corals for me.
Here is my most ideal stocking plan for fish:
x2 Marine Bettas (I will give each of them a cave on opposite ends of the tank, with the hope they will eventually pair up. I will get a small one that’s 6-8cm and a somewhat larger one that’s maybe 10-12cm, and have my LFS observe them for two weeks. First week will be with a divider, and second week if they haven’t killed each other and are still co-existing alright I will observe for another week without a divider and see how it goes. If everything’s OK I will buy both. Of course I can still get one at a later date, a larger or smaller one, depending on the size of the one I get first.)
<Okay... have rarely encountered this Plesiopsid as anything but solitary in the wild; or seen folks keep more than one specimen per system. This species does hide a good deal of the time>
x2 Captive-Bred Ocellaris or Darwin Ocellaris Clownfish (these are some of the few fish I can find captive bred in China, and I will be introducing them at the same time)
x2 Flame Hawkfish (it would be really cute to have a pair, though I am not sure how to pair them.)
<Start them small... like 2" overall (5 cm.) maximum. Do occur in groups in the wild, though Neocirrhites are territorial. As long as they're not damaging one another...>
x1-2 Aiptasia Eating Filefish (I find these guys interesting and I can sex the males and females, I know the males have a couple of hairs on their backs.)
<Yes... need to be food trained>
x3 Pajama Cardinalfish
x3 species of Chrysiptera (3 Azures, 3 Talbot’s, 3 Springer’s, or 3
Chrysiptera rex-King Demoiselle, I can’t really find Tracey’s Damsels)
<Ahh, a fave Damsel genus. Lots of color, hardy>
x1 fish chosen from the following: Royal Gramma, Blackcap Basslet, Swissguard Basslet, an Assessor (if I can find one), a dwarf angel chosen from the following species (Flame, Multicolor, African Flameback, Brazilian Flameback, Atlantic Cherub, or Joculator), or a butterfly (Burgess, Tinker’s, Mertensi, Klein’s, Double Saddle, or Mitratus)
<Do place this/these last in your order of introduction>
This is my most ideal stocking plan. If I could remove a fish I would only get one Marine Betta, or I would give up on getting a dwarf angel or butterfly and just put a Basslet.
<All good choices IMO>
Also, to my great curiosity is, what are the lifespans of the fish I’ve selected?
<The damsels and cardinals a handful of years, all else possibly 10-15>
In case I am not able to do a 105-gallon tank, I’d do a 90cm by 60cm by 60cm tank. That would give me 85 gallons to work with. In that case my proposed stocking plan would be:
x1 Marine Betta
x2 Ocellaris / Darwin Ocellaris Clowns
x1 Flame Hawkfish
x3 Pajama Cardinalfish
x1-2 Aiptasia Eating Filefish
x3 Azure’s / Talbot’s / Springer’s / King Demoiselles
x1 Royal Gramma / Blackcap / Swissguard / Assessor Basslet (or MAYBE a pygmy angel)
What do you think of my plans?
<I think they're good; well-thought out>
I am a complete beginner and I would love your time and patience. I plan to feed my fish a mixture of flakes, pellets, freeze dried foods, frozen foods, live Mysis (occasionally), and chopped seafood. Maybe the very, very occasional live seafood like small shrimp or small fish, or even red worms like the ones used for fishing bait, or larvae worms. Will this be enough to give them all the nutrition they need?
<Yes; though again, I want to emphasize that other than the clowns these are highly likely going to be wild-caught fishes and you'll need to food train them, especially the filefish>
<I look forward to your further comments, seeing pix of your set up! Bob Fenner>
Re: Hi there from a fan, setting up my first saltwater reef aquarium.     4/15/20

Also, I am worried as many of these fish are caught in SE Asia where the use of cyanide is prevalent. It would make me happier than anything else to see the fish under my care live to a ripe old age. :) If I have listed any very difficult or sensitive species, let me know and feel free to suggest alternatives. :)
<I see; and agree. Well, the Banggais, even filefishes you might find captive bred/reared... I would take great care in sorting through any that were captured in the Philippines, Indonesia, Vietnam (most notorious countries for use of cyanide). DO read on WWM (the search tool on every page) re each species for notes on practical captive husbandry, including selection and likelihood of mortality>
My LFS does not mix water between different tanks. Each tank uses its own water and only its own water, that’s what they’ve told me.
<Wow, old school>
They’ve also agreed to “hold” my fish and other livestock for me for up to a month, so I can observe it or they can observe it for me.
<Great service!>
It’ll cost me more once I buy it but I’m willing to get a healthier fish that way. They’ve also agreed to
temporarily hold my livestock for me if I move house someday, but I wonder if all of that stress back and forth, out of my tank and into one of their tanks, then back into my tank, will kill them.
<This also is commendable of them. BobF>
Re: Hi there from a fan, setting up my first saltwater reef aquarium. Stkg.      4/15/20

Hey there, Bob! I am really happy at how quickly you’ve replied!
<Ah, good>
I have compiled a list of where my fish are going to be from, as told by my LFS. Unfortunately, I have contacted ORA and Quality Marine and neither have gotten back to me. I’m not sure if I can find any of their products in China as most fish stores here think it’s too expensive to import them when they can just import a wild-caught specimen for a much lower price.
<Yes; the same in Singapore et al... >
It’s really unfortunate and LFS including mine, estimate that a large number of fish are caught using cyanide or other poisons but they can’t do much about it.
<I disagree. They are doing themselves, their customers and the planet a disservice by furthering the practice, poisoning all>
It’s sad how not enough people care about how their fish were caught. I am personally 100% supportive of the captive breeding of saltwater fish, as I believe it would go a great way when it comes to conserving coral reefs while giving us hobbyists healthier fish.
<You and I concur>
Even my LFS has warned me that species such as dwarf angels are hard to keep when they’re from Indonesia or the Philippines. That’s why I’ve left out the Coral Beauty and Half-Black, two traditionally hardy species of dwarf angels, in the list of species I’m considering.
<Ahh! When I was younger than you these Centropyge were very tough... So glad to find you looking into the set up, stock ahead of time>
Of course, if I could get a Biota (which I’ve also contacted to no avail) or ORA bred Coral Beauty that would be my dwarf angel of choice since I’m a beginner.
Ocellaris Clowns will most certainly be captive bred specimens.
The Marine Betta will be from Indonesia or the Philippines. From what I’ve read on WWM and other forums there seems to be a general consensus that these fish are about as bulletproof as a fish can get, they’re hardy and disease resistant as it comes, so maybe they’ll be fine?
<Likely so. Have you seen Wen Ping Su's Bali AquaRich offerings? Maybe your local fish stores can put together an order of his aquaculture fishes>
Flame Hawkfish my LFS gets them from Fiji or the Marshall Islands, but they’re treated and shipped via Hawai’i.
Flames, Multicolor angels my LFS also gets them from Fiji, Marshall Islands or Christmas Island (for the Flame Angels), but they’re also treated in and shipped from Hawai’i as I’ve been told.
<? To China? Don't think shipments would go east, then back west>
Joculator angels are collected from Cocos Keeling but my LFS gets them through a dealer in Hong Kong.
<Very expensive here in the USA>
African Flamebacks are collected from East Africa (not sure where in East Africa).
<Most all along S. Africa coast>
Brazilian Flamebacks and C. argi (Atlantic Cherub), as well as the Royal Gramma, Blackcap, and Swissguard Basslets are all collected in the Caribbean and my LFS told me they’re shipped from the continental US.
<Yes; likely so>
Matted Filefish (Aiptasia Eating Filefish) will be from Indonesia or the Philippines.
The Chrysiptera Damsels will also be from Indonesia or the Philippines.
Pajama Cardinals will most likely be from Indonesia.
Double Saddle will most likely be from Indonesia.
<I would leave off with this Chaetodon here... too much even in the 105 gal., 4 foot long tank>
Klein’s are mostly from Indonesia but sometimes my LFS gets Hawaiian specimens.
<A fave species from there>
Burgess I’m not sure, but maybe the Philippines or Indonesia or Fiji.
Tinker’s most certainly from Hawaii.
Merten’s from Fiji or Indonesia.
Assessors my LFS rarely gets and usually just the Yellow Assessor, the McNeill’s Assessor they’ve had once or twice. Both they get from the US, they might be getting them from Quality Marine (MAC certified, perhaps) or even ORA, but I’m not sure.
Most wrasses they have are from Fiji.
As you can see, and I’m sure it’s not surprising to you that unfortunately they DO get a lot of fish from the Philippines and Indonesia.
<These are the principal source countries for marine livestock for the entire world>
This makes me seriously concerned about my fish dying from cyanide poisoning despite the fact that I’ll most certainly do my best in caring for them. In the worst case scenario I might have to give six months for any fish I buy that’s from Indonesia or the Philippines before I can consider it “safe”. This depresses me, really. Perhaps my only consolation is the fact that the species I’ve chosen are some of the hardiest ones and not the fragile ones, but even then I’m not sure if that will be enough.
Interesting comments on the lifespans of the species I’ve chosen. I’d imagine the clowns to be able to live past 20 years (from what I’ve read),
<They can>
for the Marine Betta to live possibly over 30 (since it’s a grouper and a bigger fish), damsels from what I’ve read on other forums can easily live 10 years or more, and again from what I’ve read on other forums people have kept Pajama Cardinals for over 10 years also. I’d imagine the smaller butterfly species that I’ve listed to have more or less the same lifespan as Centropyge angels? (10-15 years, maybe 12-13 on average? Some can even make it close to 20?)
<Again, possibly, though far likely that 90 some percent die within a year, 95% within two-three>
I have heard from one hobbyist that the “dwarf” dwarf angels live only 6-8 years, but I’m not sure if that’s true. I’d also be very curious to know how long the Filefish and the Basslets can live.
I’ve read that Hawkfish can do 10 or more years without too much difficulty. I don’t plan to have one for now but it seems from what I’ve read, the Cryptocentrus Watchman Gobies including the Yellow Watchman can do 10 or more years without too much difficulty. Maybe that’s pretty unusual for gobies or Blennies as I heard most other kinds of gobies and Blennies live no more than 4-5 years, with the really small Neon Gobies or Clown Gobies doing 2-3 years on average. I don’t like short-lived fish.
I’m not too sure about the lifespans of all genera of Wrasses, though from what I’ve read the Fairies and Flashers are quite short lived averaging out at 4-6 years, while the really small ones like the Pink
Streak and Possum Wrasses do no more than 3-4.
Of course, your experiences may be totally different. It would make me really happy to have my fish for a long time and if they can live that long they’ll become part of my own family in the future. :)
<Well; captive records are one thing... and these are often longer than wild (one can gauge such by rings on ear bones...)>
Getting live foods won’t be an easy task for me, which makes me worried as some have told me live foods are necessary for the optimal health of carnivores and omnivores, maybe even herbivores once in a while.
<Mmm; most all can be trained onto frozen/defrosted, prepared diets>
I’ve also decided to get an acrylic top for my tank. I’m not sure if any of the fish I’ve mentioned as candidates for my setup (though the Clowns, the Marine Betta, the Cardinals, the Flame Hawks, and the damsels are more or less confirmed) are notorious jumpers, but I have decided to treat all fish as jumpers just to be extra safe. :) I’m not sure if the material (acrylic) may hurt fish should they decide to leap and hit the cover of my tank.
<You are wise here>
If I’m only able to do the 90cmx60cmx60cm tank which only gives me 3 feet instead of 4 feet in length, would having a Marine Betta (I think I’ll only get one after all) AND a dwarf angel (not just a pygmy angel) or a butterfly be viable?
<The first two, yes; I'd skip the Butterfly>
Or would it be too tightly pressed for space? I don’t my fish to get stressed and ill from the lack of space, and I also want to prevent the territoriality issues that may arise from smaller spaces.
As for the Filefish, I’d like to know more about why you feel they may need to be trained to feed.
<Look these up on the Net. A friend (Matt Pedersen) bred them...>
From what I have read they’re omnivores that will eat just about anything. I’ve read in some places (including here) that the Marine Betta may need time to wean it off from live foods, so my hope is to get a specimen that’s already taking frozen and flake / pellet foods at the LFS before I purchase it. If it still needs a bit more help, I’ll feed it some freshly chopped shrimp and clams / mussels or even live Mysis shrimp from time-to-time. Are any other fish I’ve listed hard to feed?
<None as species; some can be problematical as individuals>
Are the species I’ve selected disease resistant species?
<Most all but the BFs>
What would you suggest for the order which I put my fish into the tank?
I’m thinking of putting in the clownfish pair and the Marine Betta as my first three fish due to their hardiness, and if the Marine Betta needs help feeding I’ll let it adjust to captive fare and even feed it using my hand.
<As you've listed them>
And finally, what are some corals you’d suggest for a total newbie like me? :) I’m cycling my tank with cured / scraped live rock. Would 4 weeks be enough, or maybe I’ll give it 5-6 weeks? Would that be enough to keep ammonia and nitrite down to 0, and nitrate at low levels of 5-10 ppm (that’s what one hobbyist has suggested for a softies only tank).
<Do read on WWM re... there are MANY choices... I'd start with some simple soft corals, Zoanthids, mushrooms>
I’m really, really sorry for one heck of a reply :) I hope this doesn’t bore you and once again I’d appreciate all your time and patience! :)
I will definitely send photos once it’s up and running.
<Cheers Andrew. BobF>
Re: Hi there from a fan, setting up my first saltwater reef aquarium.    4/16/20

Hey there, Bob. Thanks for another informative reply.
Bali Aquarich is yet another company that I have contacted (I messaged them directly in Chinese) but again, I have heard nothing from them.
<... a bunch of the outfits you've mentioned, including this one, don't sell to the public Andrew; and they don't have much time to email folks>
I might be able to negotiate with my LFS on getting a shipment of fish from them, but I’m not sure if they’ll agree to import. Also, the last time I checked their website they did not seem to have fish other than some clowns and large angels (too large for my system) available.
<... STORES themselves will likely have to buy from a local wholesaler, whom the collectors, breeders you've listed WILL sell to... NOT directly to hobbyists, nor stores. The STORES need to contact their wholesale distributors and THEY in turn need to contact Wen-Ping Su >
I have decided I won’t be getting any Butterflyfish until I have at least a 5 foot (150cm long) system, because they love to swim so much.
<Ah, good>
I’ve also decided to put the Aiptasia Eating Filefish at a “Maybe” because after doing some more research they’re not the easiest to feed. For now, I’ve decided to stick to a Basslet in place of the Filefish.
<A wise alternate>
Are you sure a Marine Betta can thrive in a 3 foot system (90cm or 100cm long) in the long run once it’s fully grown to 8 inches? I’m asking because in your article on the website, you said even a single specimen needs at least a 4 foot tank to thrive.
<Four foot is better than 3... five or six... even better>
I’m just weighing my options here, right now for me a 4 foot tank would be the most ideal, but if it takes up too much space (after further contemplation) I might have to settle for a 90cm or 100cm long tank that’ll be 2 foot (60cm) wide and tall.
And are you sure a dwarf angel (not just a pygmy angel, one of the slightly larger dwarfs that get to 4-5” long) can thrive in a tank under 4 foot? :)
<Yes... width, amount of decor, other livestock are all factors>
I’ve read in some places that a tank below 120 or even 150 gallons is a bit risky for a pair of Flame Hawkfish or any Hawkfish. Have you found that to be true?
<... no; DO just search, read on WWM>
I think I’ll give what you have told me a try, I’ll try to get two juveniles (no more than 5cm or around 2” long) at the same time and introduce them at the same time.
I also wonder if any of the fish in my stocking list are particularly prone to diseases, often come with diseases / parasites, or ship poorly? It was certainly reassuring to read that Marine Bettas generally ship quite well. Not sure about the other species though. I would love your insight on that.
Ideally I’d have a QT tank, but I’m afraid with the amount of space in my apartment, a QT tank may or may not be possible. My LFS does medicate their fish for flukes and internal parasites as well as Ich, not sure about velvet or Uronema. They generally don’t sell fish until they’ve been treated (their length of treatment depends on the condition of the fish, for them they usually quarantine their fish up to 2 weeks and try to make sure it’s eating) and they’re taking captive fare. However, like I said they allow me to place orders on them and have the fish observed for 2-3 weeks, maybe even a month before I buy. I’m willing to pay more.
So, after some revision, here is my updated stocking list:
x1 Marine Betta x2 Ocellaris or Black and White Ocellaris Clowns (First three fish)
(Wait for about 2 weeks)
x1 Basslet and maybe the Filefish (Basslets I am looking at the Royal Gramma-peaceful, Blackcap Basslet-semi aggressive?, Swissguard
Basslet-Semi-aggressive?, or am Assessor-I know they’re semi-aggressive, the Randall’s and McNeill’s are but the Yellow one is peaceful)
(Wait another 2 weeks)
x3 Pajama Cardinalfish
(Wait about a month)
x2 (a pair is ideal) Flame Hawks
(Wait 1 month)
x3 of the Chrysiptera damsels I mentioned
And then, 6-7 months after my tank has been set up, I’ll add a Centropyge angel.
What do you think? Am I going to stock my tank too quickly this way? would love your insights.
<Should work>
If only I could persuade my LFS to investigate wholesalers from Southeast Asia, but.... they also have their business concerns. I hate how people do so many things or disregard other things for money. The two guys that run it seem to be pretty nice and decent guys, they’ve had their store for 4-5 years.
<Not an easy business. DO realize that you're an "unusual" customer. The vast majority of customers are likely mainly cost oriented>
I really, really don’t want to have any fish die from cyanide poisoning or disease (if dying for any reason other than old age).
I know I can write a lot, so I’ll say sorry!
<Cheers, BobF>
Re: Hi there from a fan, setting up my first saltwater reef aquarium.    4/16/20

One more thing. I’ll be taking a look at corals soon. How many species and how many frags do you suggest I begin with? :) I don’t want to overload my tank’s bio capacity.
<Just reading for now. Also, is there a local reef club near you that you can join, get to chat w/ other hobbyists directly? VERY useful for help (as in a reef guru), and often the clubs have folks, connections to frags>
And are any of the fish I’ve mentioned prolific jumpers?
<All are capable of leaving the system... only seahorses and their relatives aren't really. Leaving water level down a few inches or using a screen top is recommended>
I want to know just in case, though I will certainly have the acrylic top.

Re: Hi there from a fan, setting up my first saltwater reef aquarium.     4/16/20
Hi Bob, once again. Thanks for all the great info. I’ll try my best to get the 4’ tank then. Would having a 3’ tank somewhat reduce the lifespan of my fish?
<Likely not much>
Also, I read that if I keep fish in trios (which I plan to do for my Pajama Cardinals and my Chrysiptera Damsels), would it be very likely for either or both species that one will be singled out and killed off?
<Might happen, better to have small odd numbers>
I’m also very curious as to what this fish could be. I’m pretty sure it’s a Chrysiptera
<No; another genus>
damsel but I cannot identify the species. I’d be glad if you could identify it for me and tell me what you know about it.
<A Pomacentrid of some sort. Perhaps review all genera, species listed on WWM>

Re: Hi there from a fan, setting up my first saltwater reef aquarium. Centropyge beh.    4/16/20
Also, I read somewhere the pygmy (“dwarf” dwarf) angels have shorter lifespans than the medium and larger (4”+) Centropyge angels. Have you found that to be true?
<Mmm; yes. >
Re: Hi there from a fan, setting up my first saltwater reef aquarium.    4/17/20

Guess I’ll just stick to 3 Cardinalfish and 3 Damsels then.
Re: Hi there from a fan, setting up my first saltwater reef aquarium.    4/17/20

Hi, Bob. Would an Australian Stripey in place of the angel or the Cardinalfish or the damsels work in a 4 foot tank?
Do you know anything about the longevity, hardiness, and feeding requirements of these fish?
<Are usually quite hardy, eat most anything. To me, sort of like Scats/scatophagids>
Also, if I really want to try keeping a pair of Marine Bettas in a 4 foot tank, can that be done?
<... Please don't keep asking the same questions>
In that case I plan to get a smaller one and a larger one that’s about 50% larger, I’ll observe them at the LFS for two weeks. I’ll also provide a cave for each in my tank. Can it be safely done, having 2 Marine Bettas in my tank?

Re: Hi there from a fan, setting up my first saltwater reef aquarium.    4/20/20
Thanks Bob! I don’t think I’ll get it for my tank as I already have a Marine Betta as the large fish. I’ve decided to go with the 4 foot tank and I found out that I can collect these Stripeys really easily from the coast
near where I live (southeastern China).
My new stocking list will be:
x1 Marine Betta + x2 Ocellaris / Black and White Ocellaris Clowns (First
group of fish to go in)
(Wait a couple weeks)
x2-3 Stripeys
(Wait a couple weeks)
x3 Pajama Cardinals
<These may have a hard time competing for food w/ the Stripeys>
(Wait a couple weeks)
x1-2 Flame Hawkfish
Will this work? Will it massively overstock my tank and impact the bioload?
<Should be fine. B>

Re: Hi there from a fan, setting up my first saltwater reef aquarium.       4/21/20
> You’re great as always Bob! By the way, I watched your lecture on YouTube
> about Butterflyfish, and yes I thought it would be a good idea to hold off
> getting one until I have at least a year or two of experience and a system
> that’s 130+ gallons and at least 5 foot long (I’ll be getting one of the
> smaller species up to 6”, 200 gallons might not be possible for me for a
> long time to come). I was indeed eyeing an Atlantic Longsnout (if only I
> can find one here) but it looks like I’ll be sticking to one of the Roaps,
> Merten’s, Dot-Dash, or a Double Saddle instead should I choose to get a
> butterfly for a future setup. Thanks regardless. For now I’ll stick to the
> “1” category in general when it comes to marine fish.
I did learn something useful though, which is to transport fish by putting the bag horizontally rather than vertically. I’ll definitely keep that in mind!
Is there anything to keep in mind when collecting the Stripeys from the coast near me? I’ll be going for the smaller ones that are 4-5 cm. What kind of net and bag should I use to capture them, and how do I acclimate
fish that I caught on my own to my tank?
<You'll likely find a fence/barrier/mist net useful... can build or buy one... with a float and lead lines. See WWM re>
Would these fish be at particular risk to any diseases or parasites? I don’t want them (the diseases or parasites) entering my system.
<Not likely>
Also, would my Marine Betta and Hawkfish have trouble competing with them for food?
<Could be in time>
How do I make sure the slower fish are well-fed in the presence of the Stripeys?
<Search, read re on WWM>
Thank you Bob and once again I’d appreciate your time and patience.
Re: Hi there from a fan, setting up my first saltwater reef aquarium.       4/21/20

Finally, Bob. Sorry to bother you again. What would be the expected lifespan of these Stripeys in captivity? Thanks.
<Don't know... likely years>
Re: Hi there from a fan, setting up my first saltwater reef aquarium.       4/21/20

Never mind about collecting my own Stripeys or other fish in the future. :)
I found the article on WWM. Would appreciate you taking the time to answer my other questions though. :)
Re: Hi there from a fan, setting up my first saltwater reef aquarium.       4/21/20

Thanks Bob. If I get 3 or 5 Pajama Cardinals, will they likely be aggressive towards each other, resulting in attrition?
<It's a possibility.. hence starting them small/ish and as a trio>
If I keep them with some damsels, would the damsels cause them any trouble?
<Not likely, but depending on the damsel species, they can be the same way w/ each other. >
I came across this fish called the Barred Soapfish on WWM. It looks pretty cool. However, do you feel it would be suitable for my 4 foot system? I’m imagining it’s a big but fairly sedentary fish like the Comet,
though I could be wrong.
Can it be trained to eat flakes, frozen foods and pellets?
Is it very hardy, disease-resistant and long-lived? I’m worried about their poison but, according to WWM they rarely excrete it.
<Am not a fan of Soapfish species in small captive systems. Bob Fenner>
If I can include that Soapfish, my build could possibly be:
x1 Marine Betta
x1 Barred Soapfish
x2 Ocellaris or Black n White Ocellaris Clowns
x1-2 Hawkfish
x3 or 5 Pajama Cardinals
Also worried about the Barred Soapfish eating my smaller fish (does that usually happen?) and having a big bio-load.

Re: Hi there from a fan, setting up my first saltwater reef aquarium.     4/22/20
Thanks Bob. No Soapfish for this setup then. Even though you said the risk is small, I’d rather not have to deal with their toxin (not for this setup) and I’d rather give it more room. If I ever think about getting a Barred Soapfish again it’ll be for a tank at least 5 or 6 foot long (or maybe even that’s too small?).
I’ll stick to a trio of Pajama Cardinals, get them small, and otherwise sick to my original plan with the Marine Betta, Clowns, Cardinals, a trio of Stripeys, and some damsels for my 4 foot system.
I appreciate all the help you’ve given me.
<Welcome. B>

Re: Hi there from a fan, setting up my first saltwater reef aquarium.    4/23/20
Would it be OK to mix Cardinalfish species? I’m thinking of mixing my Pajama Cardinal trio with a trio of these red Cardinalfish (Apogon fleurieu?).
<... if there's room, decor/habitat... I wouldn't mix Banggais w/ other apogonids in a four foot long system>
Furthermore, for my Stripeys, would a simple float acclimation of 1 hour be enough for the ones I’ll get directly from the sea?
<Should, though quarantining them for a few weeks would be ideal. B>
Thanks Bob!

Re: Hi there from a fan, setting up my first saltwater reef aquarium.    4/23/20
Would two trios of PJ Cardinals work in my tank?
<I would stick w/ a single trio here>
Two trips for six fish.
Thanks. My other fish will be 2 Clowns, a Marine Betta, 3 Stripeys, and 2 Flame Hawks.
Just curious. Is mixing Hawkfish species okay?
<Can be done; again given.... space, habitat. B>
Re: Hi there from a fan, setting up my first saltwater reef aquarium.    4/23/20

Dear Bob,
After some deliberation, I feel it could possibly be a good idea to stick to only a trio of PJ Cardinals after all. They’ll either be the first group or the second group of fish to go into my system. If a Marine Betta’s
available at my LFS, the Betta and my Ocellaris pair will be my first fish in the tank.
If they don’t have a Marine Betta, the three Pajama Cardinals will be the first fish in my tank followed by the Betta and the Clownfish pair (or the Betta before the Clowns). My rationale behind this change is that I want my slow-swimming, slow feeding fish to have time to adjust and settle into some kind of feeding regimen before I add the fast Stripeys.
The Flame Hawkfish (or Flame Hawk pair) will go in last because they’re the most aggressive fish, or if I opt for 3 Chrysiptera damsels (in which case they’ll be the second most aggressive / territorial) the Flame Hawk/s will be my second last fish to go in after the Stripeys.
What do you think of the Pinecone Fish?
<... an "advanced" choice; best for a "species tank". NOT for you here>
WWM does not have much info about it. I found a seller who occasionally dives and collects these fish,
I think it’s the Monocentris japonica. Are they suitable for a beginner at all? Thanks. It’s another interesting looking fish to me.
I would appreciate your patience as always.
On a side note, I’ve opted to go very easy in terms of corals. My tank will be softies only, with only Mushroom and Leather corals. I find the Green Star Polyps and Xenia too much of a threat because of their rate of growth.
<Ah good. B>

Re: Hi there from a fan, setting up my first saltwater reef aquarium.    4/27/20
Your replies are always so insightful and they give me confidence with the choices I’ve made.
Regarding the Bannerfish, I read in a WWM thread where you were answering another hobbyist’s emails. In that email, the hobbyist mentions that even the Bannerfish is not a true beginner’s fish. That it’s somewhat hard to
keep and doesn’t beat in a tank that’s been up and running for at least six months. Have you found this to be true? Are they a very hardy species?
<... Andrew; did you get your tank installed, up and running? My opinions re Heniochus BFs are archived on WWM>
Are they the hardiest among butterflies, or even among marine fish in general?
<As stated>
Setting up a quarantine system would be difficult for me to do due to space constraints in an apartment. Are the species I’ve mentioned generally exceptions to the need for a quarantine regime? Just in case you don’t
remember, I will include them in the order I plan to add them:
One-Spot Foxface + x2 Ocellaris Clowns
(Wait 1 month)
Either Marine Betta or x3 Pajama Cardinals (3 juveniles 3-4 cm, add them
(Wait 1 month)
Add the fish I didn’t add last time
(Wait 2 months to let tank stabilize a bit)
Add x3 Stripeys
(Wait another 1-2 months)
add Bannerfish
(Wait 1 month)
Add Flame Hawk pair
(1-year mark- maybe a Centropyge angel)
I will make sure to only buy healthy, alert, and feeding specimens from my LFS. They will be observed in the follow-up period between adding each new fish or group of fish.
My LFS does treat most of their fish using copper.
From the research I have done, a tank around my size would be 2000-2500 pounds after being filled with live rock and water to the appropriate amount. That’s a lot of weight My building is a typical service apartment
that was completed in 2016 or 2017, should it be able to sustain that weight without too much difficulty?
<I would have a certified structural engineer come, assess your situation... need to spread the weight out, place near/against weight bearing wall/s>

Also, I will be putting my tank near the corner of the wall. I heard that’s where structural strength is the greatest.
<Ah yes>
As for pairing my Ocellaris Clowns, I’ve read pairing a smaller clown with a bigger clown is the way to go (is it the same for all clowns? Even captive bred?). This is to ensure the larger one becomes the female and leads the smaller one (which will become male) into submission. Not sure how much aggression there is involved, but I plan to get one in the 4-5cm range (1.5-2 inches) and the other around 2-3cm (or 1 inch to slightly over 1 inch).
I’ll be cycling my tank using clean / cured live rock. I plan to let it cycle for 4-5 weeks, maybe a sixth. I’ll ensure ammonia and nitrites are exactly zero, and nitrates at an acceptable level of about 2-5 ppm (though I heard soft corals like “dirtier” water)?
For me feeding regimen I plan to feed 3-4 times a day, the Marine Betta will be fed 3 times a week. I plan to feed a combination of dry (Ocean Nutrition Formula-1 and Formula-2 flakes and pellets, Hikari A and Hikari S, Omega One Shrimp Pellets, Hikari Seaweed Extreme, Hikari Algae Wafers), frozen (Dr. Basler Caviar, First Bite Fish Eggs / Calanus Liquid, Hikari Frozen brine and Mysis, Hikari plankton / Rotifers / Gammarus, First Bite Copepods). Also frozen bloodworm cubes that I can get locally. Nori strips, Julian Sprung’s Sea Veggies will also be crucial for my herbivore (Foxface) and omnivores (Bannerfish, Stripeys, Clowns).
Live foods unfortunately aren’t an option for me. Marine Betta- I am a bit worried. The closest I can get to live are fresh / frozen seafood and seaweed which I plan to include in my fishes’ diet once a week, every Sunday.
I always write such long emails, must bore you. I apologize, but once again I’d like to tell you how much of a help you’ve been to me now taking steps towards making my childhood dream a reality.
<As much fun as it is to dream, plan for livestock arrangements, you should (again) focus on the system itself at this point. Hoping this is clear. Bob Fenner>

250 gallon reef tank        3/15/19
I have 5 clownfish, 2 cleaner shrimp and 2 conch in QT tank for 4 weeks and was wondering if I can move them all to the DT/250-gal tank. No signs of ich and eating well.
<Well, it seems that they are ready to go;... I advise you to mix slowly the QT and DT water to minimize stress and ease the acclimation / adaptation process to the new environment.>
All tanks water parameters are perfect
<It would have been better if you had sent the exact numbers… >
Pls advise…Dan/Georgia
<Cheers. Wil.>

Flasher Wrasse Question      11/10/18
Good morning crew!
A quick question on stocking Carpenter's Flasher Wrasses. My current system is a 75 gallon reef (plumbed in line with a 30 gallon mangrove tank and 20-tall sump) - so total system volume around 100 gallons. My current fish stocking list is as follows:
Desjardinii tang

<Yikes; will get MUCH larger in time>
Potters Angel
Helfrichi Firefish
pair of Ocellaris clowns
Tailspot blenny
I've been planning to add a small harem of Carpenter's Flasher Wrasses - 1 male, 2 females.
<Mmm; I wouldn't w/o re/moving the Zebrasoma first... not enough psychological/room here>
I finally found someone who has females in stock. I wanted to clarify a couple of things:
1 - I've read in 1 or 2 places that it is best NOT to quarantine these fish. I wanted to get your opinion on this. My usual quarantine is 6 weeks for all new arrivals. Thoughts?
<IF the fish/es are in good (apparent) shape, full-bodied, feeding, they may benefit from quarantine... THEY ARE JUMPERS! A small opening may find them out on the floor; more so in small/er volumes. IF they were mine, I'd likely utilize a dip/bath (see WWM re) and simply place them in the main/display>
2 - I've read that I should add the females first. Is that advisable, or would it be ok to add the females and male all at once. My concern is one of the females turning male while the male is in quarantine if I wait.
<For a trio... this setting, I'd place all at once>
As always, your input is greatly appreciated.
<Again; I'd trade out your Tang in advance of introducing the Wrasses. Bob Fenner>
Re: Flasher Wrasse Question     11/11/18

<Hey Charles>
Thanks for the prompt reply. I do plan to upgrade to a significantly larger system in the next couple of years (though I’m well aware of the danger of using that as a plan for fish size). Are there any particular signs in the tang’s behavior I should look for to indicate it has reached a size that is “too big” for its current home?
<"Jousting" so to speak... chasing other fishes, swiping at them w/ its caudal peduncle>
If I were to remove the tang and replace it with, for example, a purple tang, would there be enough space for the wrasses, or is this a case of either the wrasse harem or a tang?
<More time; yes. Z. xanthurum is "more calm" and doesn't get as large as the other Sailfin sp.>
Am I just all full at this point with species space in the tank?
<Per the livestock you list fish-wise, yes. Again... you can review what I stated earlier. >
I’d like to have one more species in there to provide additional movement and color.
<For me; I'd go w/ the Flashers, maybe switch the tang out for a Ctenochaetus species. BobF>

Question: C. Argi with P. Fridmani - order to add?       2/6/18
Hello My Wet Web Media Friends,
<Hey Forrest>
I down-sized to this little 50 gallon (36"x18"x20") tank (too overwhelmed to set up my 120 after moving). I put my corals in it over a month ago, but still have no fish in it. It is a mixed reef of SPS, LPS, mushrooms, and Palys/Zoanthids.
I am mostly okay with the little tank size (for now), except that I can only fit half of my liverock in it, and even more importantly, I can't keep my favorite sunshine fish (yellow tang) in it. This means I need some kind of little fish that eats algae. I decided I should get a cherub angel to do the job. I have had these angels (one at a time) a couple of times many years ago, and I found them entertaining, pretty, and "reef safe".
<I agree>
Both times, even though I loved the angels, I ended up getting rid of them because I wanted to have some fish which were not able to deal with the typical flamboyant and intrusive antics of the very narcissistic cherub
angelfish (they didn't chase or try to nip other fish, but liked to put on a big show; they taunted and provoked anger from a nesting clownfish pair, and they intimidated Dartfish into hiding and starving).
Getting the cherub angel means tossing out my original plan to get a pair of purple Firefish. The first cherub angel I had, had an orchid Dottyback tankmate in a 65g (36"x18" footprint like this 50g, just taller).
Dottyback and the angel didn't seem to interact at all, and the Dottyback was out in the open quite a bit (for a fish that people say is sometimes a hider). I had (and have) a lot of liverock with a lot of dart holes, so perhaps that made the Dottyback feel more confident, being able to have a hole to dart in regardless of where in the tank it wandered.
The problem is, I have looked a lot on various forums for a couple of days, and discovered what seems to be an even split between people who saw no problems, people who saw angel aggression toward Dottyback, and people who saw Dottyback aggression toward angel (the last situation makes me wonder if people mis-identified the Dottyback species, because I have seen mis-labeling of more aggressive species as orchid Dottyback, at 2
different LFS and at a chain pet store). Along with that confusion, is the fact that some say to put the angel in first, and others say to put the Dottyback in first.
<I'm on the positive side here>
I am pretty much decided on just getting the cherub angel, the orchid Dottyback, and some currently unknown species of little yellow fish (I will take suggestions, but no yellow gobies).
<Tropical West Atlantic Gobiosoma/Elacatinus and/or Coryphopterus are my choices>
I would greatly appreciate your insight and advice on the order I should follow in adding these fish.
Thanks so much for your help!
<Thank you for sharing. Bob Fenner>
Re: Question: C. Argi with P. Fridmani - order to add?       2/6/18

Thanks, Bob. Can you clarify the "I'm positive here" statement? Does it mean Dottyback first?
<Yes to these two getting along together. I don't think the order or introduction is very important.
Bob Fenner>

90 Gallon Stocking        1/2/18
Hello Bob and Crew,
Do you see any issues with the following fish in a 90 gallon Zoa garden with a 20 gallon refugium? The only existing fish is a Yellow Watchman Goby. I have an Aiptasia infestation, so I'd like to add a Copperband
Butterflyfish. I realize a 90 gallon is on the small size, and I plan to move the Copperband Butterflyfish to my 180 gallon if/when she outgrows the 90.
The other fish I'm considering are: Pink-Streaked Wrasse, Yellow Coris Wrasse (Halichoeres chrysus), Royal Gramma, and either a Bicolor Blenny or a Tailspot Blenny.
<Good choices>
I've read through the FAQ's, but I'm confused because my fish list contains similarly-shaped fish which I've gathered could be a problem.
<Mmm; considering the tank size, shape, and likelihood of many nooks and crannies, I think these will/can all fit here>
If all these fish work together, would you consider this a fully stocked tank, or could I place a Coral Beauty in the tank as well? I appreciate your site and your input! Casey
<The Centropyge would fit as well. Bob Fenner>

Stocking question; SW,  mixed reef      11/18/17
Hello Crew!
First I want to thank everyone there for all the advice you have given me over the last five years. Just made a small donation to the site and encourage everyone else to do so also!
<Ahh, I thank you>
I have a 180 that has been running for about five years now. I have fish, inverts and some LPS corals in the display. I recently lost my red headed solar fairy wrasse when he literally forced the glass top open by jumping
into it, got stuck between the lid and the rim, jumped again freeing himself and landing on top of the glass cover. I immediately got him back in but he died about 5 days later, probably from injuries during the ordeal.
<Ugh! So/too common w/ Cirrhilabrus>
The fish left in the tank are an 8 inch female Naso Tang, a 3 inch Flame Angel, a 4 inch Melanurus Wrasse, a 4 inch Magnificent Foxface, a 3 inch Cleaner Wrasse and a tank raised Clown Fish.
I would like to add a replacement fish but I think I am limited with the Tang and Angel in the tank. I was thinking of a Blue Hippo Tang, that would probably not be welcome, two Heniochus Butterfly fish, that might be bullied, or maybe a few blue Dartfish or Anthias. Would any of these work or should I just leave the community alone?
<I think any of the choices would work here. My fave pick is the Blue/Hippo, but I'm also partial to the idea of a nice grouping of a sturdy/sturdier Anthias in addition! If you're going the Heniochus route, I'd get two of the less-schooling species, or three of the more (H. acuminatus, H. diphreutes); please read here:
Bob Fenner>

Species tank; fish stkg. ideas for a 50 gal. reef      9/24/17
Hello all, I'm writing for a suggestion if you don't mind. I have a 36Lx18Wx10H shallow reef, with sump included comes to about 50 gallons, I'm looking to add a single fish to the tank for activity. I want something active and of course pretty but active is more important. If a single fish is too tough to narrow down a pair or trio of the same species could also work. Thanks. - John
<Gosh; so many choices, possibilities. For me, maybe a single Ctenochaetus species Tang; both active, attractive and functional as an algae picker. A singleton wrasse would do well here... one of the mid-size, less-digging
species. Perhaps a Cirrhilabrus or Halichoeres species. You could have a small school of Cardinalfishes... not super active, but out and about most of the time. See WWM Re here. Bob Fenner>

Information about stocking our reef aquarium      3/5/17
Hello - Not sure how fast you typically respond. Just thought I'd forward again. Thanks for your time.
<Glad you've re-sent; I never saw come through here>
Hello - This is my first time writing, however I have been reading information on your site for many months and appreciate all of the information that is available. My husband Damon and I are relatively new to this hobby (not quite a year yet). We would like your opinions about the stocking of our tank and that is the reason for reaching out to you. I apologize for the length of this but it seems that more information is better for you and considering you are not familiar with our setup. This is the information about our system:
Started: April 2016
Size: 280 gallons - acrylic - 6' wide; 30" deep' 30" tall (custom made)
100 gallon sump with refugium
240 lbs CaribSea Arag-Alive Reef Sand (about 2-3")
320 lbs live rock in two formations with large space between and space all around each formation
We use Red Sea Coral Pro salt.
The tank is visible from both long sides (built in the wall between rooms).
(3) EcoTech Marine Radion XR30w Pro LED
(2) EcoTech Marine Vortech MP60WES Quiet Drive Pump EcoTech Marine Vectra Water Pump
Simplicity 800 DC Skimmer
Ideal H2O Classic Series 200 GPD RO/DI Water Filtration System (top-off tank to sump)
(2) JBJ True Temp Titanium Heating System 500W with controllers
(2) EcoTech Battery Backup
Aqua UV 57 Watt 2 inch UV Sterilizer
Skimz Calcium Reactor with Milwaukee MC122 pH Controller
APEX Next Generation controller
SpectraPure MaxCap RO/DI - 180 GPD (in garage for 100 gallons each of RO and SW)
2 Generators (for DT and QT/Frag tank) just in case!
Water Parameters:
Ammonia - 0
Nitrite - 0
Nitrate - 0
Phosphate - 0 to trace
<Know that corals and kin you list are chemo-autotrophs. REQUIRE SOME NO3 and HPO4; else no growth, color, health>
Calcium - 410 to 440
Alkalinity - 8 to 8.6dkh
Magnesium - 1280 to 1320
Ph - 8
Specific Gravity - 1.025
Test weekly
Add reef color and fuel supplements on a regular schedule.
For Our Fish QT Tank we have:
28 Gallon Nano Cube with LEDs; 2 wave makers; and filter (carbon/media/sponge)
The tank is bare bottom with PVC only inside
JBJ True Temp Titanium Heating System 150W with controller For frags and coral QT we have:
JBJ 20-Gallon Rimless Frag 20 gallon Tank
JBJ Orion LT-120 LED Light Fixture 24", 120W
Cobalt Aquatics Neo-Therm Heater 75W
Includes live rock and sand
Our current livestock includes:
Inverts and Corals:
Approx. 12 hermit crabs
Red stripe/Red banded Trochus snails (they spawn so have many of different sizes)
2 Sand sifting starfish
4 Tiger sand sifting conch
1 Florida fighting conch
<Conchs can become bulldozers; keep your eye on them>
2 feather dusters
1 Pincushion urchin
1 Red tuxedo urchin
2 Skunk shrimp
2 Blood red fire shrimp
3 Bubble tip anemones
8 small Zoanthid colonies
2 Frogspawn
3 Hammers
1 Torch
1 Short tentacle torch
5 Candy cane
2 Bubble - green and silver
2 Elegance - green and a purple tip
1 Duncan
5 various Chalice
13 various Acroporas
8 various Montiporas
Long Polyp Turbinaria
4 various Stylophora
1 Sympodium
9 various Acan brain
2 Wellsophyllia
1 Scolymia
1 Green polyp leather
1 Sinularia
2 variety Mushroom
Most of the SPS and LPS corals are small. Several LPS have been in the tank the longest and are larger. We are not planning on adding anymore corals or inverts (except if replacing from a death). Now it's just time to watch
them grow!
We do supplement the corals with food (frozen varieties such as coral gumbo and plankton). We give our inverts krill on occasion and obviously they eat what the fish eat as well.
4 Pajama Cardinalfish
Added next:
1 Banggai Cardinalfish
2 Firefish
Added next:
1 Chromis Viridis (5 died in QT from Uronema - the survivor was in QT for 8 weeks plus tank transfer)
Currently in QT - to be added in March:
1 Scissortail Dartfish (2 died upon arrival) I got these specifically because they are a different species than the Firefish and therefore should get along OK
<Yes; agreed>
1 McCosker Flasher Wrasse (wanted 2 females as well but couldn't get them)
<Can and should be added; later/when you can secure them.>
We feed the fish a variety of frozen foods such as mysis, mega marine, brine, etc. None of the fish like flake or pellets it seems.
The following fish are what I'm interesting in adding and the order in which they would be introduced. I would get smaller fish of the large varieties and only QT 2 or 3 at a time. I have done a lot of research on how peaceful they are, size requirements, being reef safe, dietary needs, etc. Our goals are:
1. Peaceful tank where everyone gets along for the most part
2. Is not overstocked
3. Reef safe
4. Everyone has room to grow and do their thing!
5. Don't cause unnecessary deaths because of territory issues or conspecific problems
1 - Linespot or Filamented Flasher Wrasse OR Exquisite Fairy Wrasse OR Lineatus Fairy Wrasse (my understanding is having a 2nd wrasse would be good, however I cannot seem to get any females so I'm thinking 1 other male)
1 - Orange Stripe Prawn Goby
1 - Tail Spot Blenny
1 - Gold Assessor Basslet
1 - Royal Gramma Basslet
Third (if I can get them or later if not available but before any Tangs):
2 Schooling Bannerfish (Heniochus diphreutes)
1 pair Yellow Pyramid Butterflyfish (male/female) OR pair Bellus Angelfish (male/female)
3 Ignitus Anthias OR 3 Fathead Sunburst Anthias
1 (or 2?) Ocellaris Clownfish
1 Kole Tang (small)
1 Yellow Tang or Convict Tang (small)
This would be 25 fish when all done.
1. What is your opinion about a 2nd male wrasse being added assuming the McCosker will have been in the DT for 8 weeks or so before it is added?
<Should be fine in this size/shape system>
2. Could I add a couple more scissortail Dartfish since the original 3
only 1 made it? Would that be a problem adding since I already have the one?
<Could be added; s/b no problem>
3. Do you feel 25 (or a few more if I got more scissortail) fish with
all of the other livestock is appropriate for our size DT?
<What you list should do well together. The Henis may quarrel with each other>
4. What are your opinions about a single clownfish vs. 2 to avoid some of their territorial issues or do you feel two would be OK with them being added almost at the end?
<Better to have two all the way around>
5. Do you feel like anything on my list would not be appropriate to meet the goals or have any issues that I might not be aware of?
<Other than the BFs as mentioned, all should learn to get along. Some of  the smaller species would fight territorially if the system were smaller>
6. If I cannot get these fish in this order how problematic would it be to add them in a different order as long as we keep the clownfish and tangs near the end?
7. Do you have any other fish you think would be particularly nice and fit with this group or replace any?
<Way too many. Some schooling Cardinals would be nice... >
I thank you very much for your help and all of the advice I have read on a large variety of topics.
<This is obvious. Nice gear and a good assortment: Knowledge gained by much study and deliberation>
Holly Tindall
<Bob Fenner>
Re: Information about stocking our reef aquarium       3/6/17

I thank you so much for your quick reply! Please see a couple follow up questions below:
1. What are your suggestions for having some Nitrate and Phosphates? What levels of each are appropriate for our system? Will they naturally go up when the fish load goes up over the next year?
<I'd be less than fastidious re what is being processed here; less chemical filtrants, perhaps the addition of more meaty foods. Yes to aging, more biomass>
2. On the Henis - I zeroed in on this particular schooling Bannerfish as my reading indicated they are peaceful and also reef safe where other Bannerfish are not. Would it be better to get just one?
<Yes; in terms of them not bickering, fighting amongst themselves>
Or would you stick with the pyramid butterfly fish pair and no Bannerfish?
<Hemitaurichthys would be a better choice in terms of getting along together>
3. Would a pair of Pyramid BF and a pair of Bellus Angelfish do OK together?
4. Is it best to have Pyramid BF and Bellus Angelfish in male/female pairs or do they do OK singly?
<Can't sex BFs, the Genicanthus, yes, better in pairs or one male harems>
4. What do you think would be a good variety of schooling Cardinal Fish that would do well with our others? We have the 4 PJ and the 1 Banggai (I just got one as I understand once they grow up they are not schoolers and don't get along great)
<See WWM re Cardinals; I'd stick with what you have w/ the species mentioned>
5. Of the two Anthias I listed do you prefer one or the other as being more peaceful, difficult, attractive, interesting etc?
<Fatheads are very individualistic (not a schooling species); hide under rocks, in caves... The ignitus? I'd choose another species; Pseudanthias squamipinnis is about the hardiest, mid-size available>
6 . I would love to hear 1 or 2 other variety of fish you feel would be great if I can't get what is on my list that meet our goals.
<Take your time here... I'd go w/ what you have planned for now>
Thanks again for your time. It is much appreciated.
<Welcome. Bob Fenner>

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