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Possible improvements to the look, functionality of WWM... and you! Miguel... please take a look here: http://saltaquarium.about.com/ Though it has not been my/our wish to make WWM look, or be this commercial... I do like some aspects/features of this site. For one, the tracing/recording navigation bar/tool at the top... Could we have something like this? Unfortunately, from inception I have used file and folder names that "suited me"... that may not make much sense to the less initiated... But... what say you? BobF.

Re: We Need a Plan! > YES YES! > This is something I had proposed in the past, I'm not sure what happened... Which will let you know whose changes you're about to overwrite, instead of it always seeming to be Bob. It's not really a "check-in board", certainly not concurrent modification ability, just more information about whose doing what - AFTER the fact... better then nothing, but still crap. <Okay... Bob> -Zo

Re: We Need a Plan! Here is what Jason brought up and the link to the Microsoft website on how to get it to work.--> Microsoft FrontPage 2000 has integrated a light version of Visual Source Safe technology. This is a very useful tool when you have multiple users authoring against one web. If you want to work on a specific page, simply check that file out. While your file is "checked-out", no other authors will have the ability to make changes to this page. This will prevent the loss of data in instances where multiple authors could have a file open at the same time while saving in different intervals. Go here--> http://support.microsoft.com/default.aspx?scid=%2Fsupport%2Ffrontpage%2Ffp2000%2Fss%5Fcontrol%2Easp Mike <Shall we have a vote as to whether to turn this on? Bob F> Robert Fenner <fennerrobert@hotmail.com> wrote: Well... actually - the Microsoft SCS called Visual Source Safe can be brought to bear on FrontPage. I do believe DataPipe even offered to turn it on once... reef, admin, biz... parts of the root web... Bob, not looking fwd to it> J --

" The Conscientious Marine Aquarist" Hi Bob, Bob here, from The Aquarium, in Concord. I guess Anthony was here recently, and I am sorry to have missed him.  <Yes, just this last week we were both up in the Bay Area, Sacto> I was spending a day off doing that tank maintenance gig. Ah, the life of a fish dude. <I/we understand> Anyway, I have a customer who wants a hardcover copy of "The Conscientious Marine Aquarist". Can you provide that animal, sir?  <Actually, yes. Di bought the last of the HD...> Autographed, maybe? <Surely/Shirley... I know> If so, I'd like one as well, since you seem to be the only place I end up turning for answers that make sense. Yer crew rocks, the sense of humor is understated, yet very fluid, <Like some of their bowel... let's not go there> and I must say, I sure wish I could go diving with you, sir. There's a minor health issue that make that impossible. <A shame. Operable?> At any rate, please get back to me when convenient, and let me know what we can do. Kenny is as impressed with the book as I am! Softcover will do, but I'd like to have all you guys sign it because you are what an info site should be! Of course, I want nothing for free, or any discounts. I just want to make my customer happy, and preserve a bit of history that only a book can do. You should feel very proud that in an industry fueled on mistrust, you stand out as a no-bullshitter! (pardon my French) <Moi?> I congratulate you for being so non-commercial, and damn right, I send customers your way all the time. I realize that you are not a non profit organization, but you exhibit class. Kind of like the 30 phone calls I answer everyday. <Very good> From one industry professional to another, Thanks to all of you! <Thank you> By the way, I just turned my "young Jedi" on to the site. He's in awe, and that says a lot, since he lives on the machine. A smart 16 year old, with the heart of a lion. Future fish geek from hell. Days like this make the bad ones go away. <Agreed, very encouraging> Please get back to me on the book thing ASAP. <Do contact Diana at Di's Aquatics (on WWM)> Thanks, Bob <Be chatting my friend. Bob Fenner>

Re: Calcium Reactor Both of you (Bob & Anthony) have been so good at answering my questions <thank you my friend. There are many folks here at WWM that make it all possible...seen and unseen faces that keep this enormous site chugging along <smile>. All with similar resolve and passion for this hobby as you have.> I am buying "Book of Coral Propagation" and "The Contentious Marine Aquarist" My only regret is that I didn't buy them earlier as I have many other books such as Delbeek & Sprung's two volumes.  <its all good... all such information can be helpful. Please continue to learn share and grow> Thanks Larry <kindly, Anthony>

Yo petfish boyeeeeeeeeeee! From mail I was working on this morning - proof positive: And you guys have a wonderful site, I have learned so much about fish from it you guys are INVALUABLE. Thank you SO much, without you guys I would have been out of the hobby already, with out a doubt. <<WOW! Am really glad to hear that.>> Woot! <Ahhh, the pleasure. Bob F>

Photo FAQs I realize that this site is a constant 'work under construction'  <I'll say!> and appreciate the time and effort you all put into this. Thought I would let you know that the 3 page document on aquarium photography says page 2:3 on both pages 2 and 3. I look forward to when you get time to finish 'fleshing' this FAQ out. <Fixed. Thanks much for this correction (there are many more I'm sure... and MANY more pieces to add to the sites)... Bob Fenner> Bye.

Some pix now! Sorting, identifying the Red Sea photo work Sorry re the lack of go gettiveness re WWM projects... other than the fun and putting tog. of Red Sea pitches from the last trip... Amazingly, it is Di's doing mainly... she (likely largely unknowingly) took many macro shots of organisms that are taking quite a while to sort through... many are new to me... a few just new to science from their i.d.'s Bob F

Aquatic Science Bob, I would like to make up a new oval image for the Aquatic Science section on the home page of the WWM. <Okay> Everyone I have shown the website to asks me "what the heck is that", and I have to admit that I have never cared for the present image of the hand with a sore on it either. Is there something we can put on there that represents the Aquatic Science better?  <Maybe a microscope... a drop of water with the symbol H20 in it? Some other chemical formula?> I was thinking of maybe a water test kit or somehting like that. What do you think? <Sounds fine. Bob F> Mike

Finding WWM Hi guys, <Howdee!> Was looking into ways to increase our exposure by having WWM appear earlier on a Google search. For example when I typed in "marine aquarium", we didn't appear until page 10. As you can see FAMA is the 1st one. Potential sponsors will use this as an objection. <I can imagine> "freshwater aquarium", we are #2 on page 4 "planted aquarium", we are #3 on page 2 "ponds" got up to page 27 and didn't see us "brackish systems" #2 on page 1 LIKE IT! What's our advertising budget with "Google"? http://www.google.com/ads/ <Zip, nada, nothing... we don't have a budget or advertise per se> What program are we using? <Frontpage 2000 by MS> Would like to be #1 on page 1 for all....... <Would be nice... but... am leery (Not Timothy) re such... we (maybe I should make this first person singular), I am fearful/hesitant to popularize the sites too much, too fast... the volunteer help can only do so much to answer questions, build content... It takes up all my time as is... so are we facing something in the way of a "Catch-22", wanting more sponsors/advertisers, but not being able (w/o paying?) to "move-up" in the search engines, directories listings w/o their money...? Bob F> Thanks PD

Re: Finding WWM Are you already using meta tags? If you are good. If not- look into them. Here's a good start: http://searchenginewatch.com/webmasters/meta.html (first hit on google). <Thanks Dave. Bob F> -Dave

RE: Finding WWM This has varied results, and will pale in comparison to weighting given to paid sponsorship... wah! Good idea, though. J -- <Yes, Bob F>

search engine rankings Before investing a bunch of time embedding meta-tags, I'd like to mention a couple of things... <good> Sadly (or not?), Google could barely care less about meta-tags.  <Yes... figured as much... they're "pay as you go"> Due to rampant and silly abuse by "webmasters" many other search engines (there are others!?) outright ignore them now. Google at least treats them like searchable page content - though they don't effect page ranking or 'placement' in any way. When search engines are also smart enough to ignore text that has the same color as the background - that'll really be something. Those pages really get me PO'd. But anyway, back on topic, there are only two ways to get better visibility in Google: get more sites to link to ours (primary factor in Google placement, especially for those generic search terms Pattie demonstrated)... or pay money. <Mmmm> I'm not sure what sort of stats the WetWebMedia/Datapipe server offers, (I know they're nice, but haven't looked in a while) but WetWebFotos and the chatforum stats for May are here: http://wetwebfotos.com/stats/usage_200205.html <Interestante> Take a scroll on down near the bottom of the page, and see our top 20 search strings ("Freshwater Lionfish" is a monthly winner for some reason). Weird, <Not unusual> and also kinda off topic, since it has little to do with increasing site rankings... Cheerio, Zo <Thanks for this. Bob F>

Bob's mail problems...should be fixed now. <Yay!> The hotmail 'junk mail' filter was set to immediately delete all junk mail, and messages sent by certain mailers or mail routers were ending up in junk mail, after being forwarded on by WetWebMedia/DataPipe. Then of course, they were deleted before anyone ever saw them. <I noticed the filter on MSN was set to one notch below high, and changed this a couple days back...> I solved this by adding a 'custom filter' that states that all incoming mail with BobFenner@wetwebmedia.com in the 'to/cc/bcc' be placed in the 'inbox' -luckily, these custom filters are applied before the junk mail filter, which I have left 'as-is', to keep the mailbox clean... <Great> Anybody else having their user@wetwebmedia.com email forwarded to an outside address (like yahoo.com), should take a minute to check for similar settings. <Thanks Zo. Will post this "mystery solved" tomorrow on the FAQs. BTW, our RR online svc. has been kaput all day... Bob F> -Zo

Yikes! Hi Bob, I just finished updating the daily q & a and as I pasted the last one which is at the very top (Freshwater Flounders)...everything shifted in that the intro paragraph listing all crew members is in one long line as opposed to paragraph form....as is the question and long urls given in the flounder answer. Help! Barb-- <Ah, I do know "the answer" to this one... something about the URLs themselves makes this so... I just truncate the URLs as if they were (because they are) simple Links... or you can/could unlink the whole URL and it can be split up by a line break. Anywho, I'll fix. Bob F>

Thank you! You guys are really super!!!! Do you sell something or just answer questions all day? Thanks again, Sue <absolutely nothing to sell... heehee... that's why you get good service. Bob has assembled a gaggle of dedicated industry professionals, aquarists and friends to support this enormous site full of free (all and only) content: pics, articles, FAQs, now movies/video coming online (yippee!). A little advertising money trickles in from merchants... but this enormous site (and expense to operate it) is the product of Bob's vision for supporting and promoting conscientious aquarium keeping by aquarists and dealers alike. Thanks kindly for the recognition though! Best regards, Anthony>

Re: Revised FAQ(s) - (was Re: Parrotfish help) ParrotFAQsI liked the one best where the questions were in black and the responses in blue. <Thanks... one vote in! Bob F>

Revised FAQ(s) - (was Re: Parrotfish help) Hi Bob, It took me a little longer than I thought it would, but I got a couple examples of a revised faq done. <Yes, a very time-consuming process> I did all the variations to the parrotfish faq, just because that was the one I was looking at. :) Anways, Let me know what you think, if there are any changes I should make, or if there is a style of the ones I included you'd like me to use for revising the faq. I didn't change any information outside of the text area where the faq was, which is why the images are broken, (unless you look at them on the server). That way, I keep the integrity of the site the same and am only changing the text formatting. <I see> Here is what they are: -parrotfaQITALICS.htm The questions are in italics, the answers in regular text. -parrotfaBOLDnospace.htm The answers are in bold, no extra return spaces between the questions and the answers -parrotfaCOLORnospace.htm same as above, except that the answers are in blue - the same blue that is used in the bar of the page -parrotfaCOLOR.htm same as parrotfaCOLORnospace.htm, except that there are extra spaces separating the question and the answer. -parrotfaITALICS.htm The answers are in italics -parrotfaBOLD.htm answers in bold. It differs from parrotfaBOLDnospace.htm in that there are extra spaces between the questions and answers -parrotfaMENU.htm this has a menu at the top of the faq so that you can just click on the email subject and have it go down to the message. I used it with the same formatting as the parrotfaBOLDnospace.htm, but it could be used with any of the layouts. There are two drawbacks to this system I can think, though - One, the subjects are not always very accurate. Two, if there are a lot of email questions, the menu could go down the page quite aways. Let me know what you think. If you want something done differently or have any suggestions, or would like me to try more styles, let me know - I just did these as a guideline of what some possibilities are. I tried to keep it simple so more can be done in a shorter amount of time. <Mmm, unfortunately, your examples/attachments didn't survive the movement to this "bin". Can imagine what you did though.> I figure once you decide on a style, I'll just work my way down from the top of the index to the bottom, keeping each page I do exactly the same except the main faq text that I need to change. <Okay. Thank you for your patience. Am going to ask the WWM crew folks who "do" the FAQs as well what they consider better format-wise. Will cc you re alls input. Bob Fenner, just returned from travel>

Re: idea (Yet another WWM possibility for fun and profits) Did a little research re printers of calendars, see the Microcosm Reef Life units were printed in S Korea, unless you order in the magnitude of 10,000 don't think you will get anywhere near a buck for the printing of pics on heavy quality paper. Even the 'standard' pics e.g. Norman Rockwell and your own logo go for close to $1,and they must print a gazillion of those, maybe the overseas printers are the route to go, also note mrp is $11 for the Reef Life calendar, a bargain at $2.Wonder if the Tackett's were paid a royalty for the images, they do also have great pics, and their web site is worth visiting. Will keep looking. Pete. <Thanks for checking. Bob Fenner>

Re: questionnaire (virus alert) Bob, <Hello Karin> I realize that you are not sending these... however they are being sent to people who you have in your address book in your hotmail account. Perhaps you need to open a new account with hotmail. At least that is what I would do. I know how frustrating it is.... believe me... <I'll bet! Hard to change this account address... it is posted in a few tens of thousand places... and referred/redirected to by other addresses automatically... sigh> Our virus protection software automatically sends the alert that you received when an email comes to us with a virus attached. To eliminate that happening again, perhaps you should remove our "webmaster" address from your address book and just type it in if you are going to send us something. <Will do, check... Actually, it is not in my/our address books... Only Tom Frakes address that has anything to do with A.S.> We'll at least see if that stops the problem. Let me know if you do this... <Nothing to remove...> Sorry for the alert email... but that is the way we have our protection set up. This way unsuspecting "virus senders" can become aware of what is happening. <Not a bother. Would like to send same to all who are "forwarding" such to me/us... or better, eliminate such mis-use of bandwidth, time, effort. Will send your note to our friends at WetWebMedia who know about coding, computer security. Be seeing you my friend. Bob Fenner> Karin Lohiser MIS Aquarium Systems/JungleTalk Int.

Tie that bot down sport. What is it w/ WWM, mail, Viruses? Am concerned with the abrupt drop-off of email to and through WWM... nine pieces today and yesterday. Have test-sent and rec'd email through BobFenner@wetwebmedia.com but am wondering if the virus of late is having its day with us? Is our email being otherwise re-directed to elsewhere? Bob F

Re: Tie that bot down sport. What is it w/ WWM, mail, Viruses? Ya... if we are really getting so little mail without a virus, I it would make me self-conscious...heehee. Sorry to scare away traffic, Bob. Ha! Sheesh! <You may have been implicitly involved by providing so many outstanding inputs that all now are reading them! See you soon... Bob F>

Re: Tie that bot down sport. What is it w/ WWM, mail, Viruses? How wonderful that would be if it were true!!! Ha! Be drinking beer with you soon <G>! <Bier, yes... now, what were we chatting about? Hey! Are you going to lug Steve's biz cards about Europe? Should I send them post wise? Bob F> Alf Weenersane Fw: questionnaire Bob, The klez virus was not sent by you or your hotmail account, it only affects users of Microsoft Outlook Email (which you do not use), and sends mail TO everyone in the infected address book - FROM everyone in the infected address book, and randomly chooses subject lines as well, from the infected user's mail folders. So in fact, you had nothing whatsoever to do with this - the virus is on the computer of some common associate of yours AND aquarium systems, who has both email addresses in his/her infected Outlook address book. Insidious, to be sure, and nothing you can do about it, sadly. Cheerio! Zo <Argghhh! Thanks Zo... am hoping the negative Karma effect is acting just as insidiously on the "jokers" who produce such "work". Bob F>

Re: questionnaire Karen, I went through my Virus protection and am still convinced I am clean. My Norton is up to date with all online updates and has been for months. However I found some interesting addresses in my address book that I did not put there. Basically they are something like " www .marine aquarist .org @ concentric .com " However I found them prefaced with SEA., MorganLidster., MAR., and fcortez. I also found a bunch of SEA. club members and MAR club members in the list. These member names were not intentionally added by me and each time after the list of SEA members or MAR members was an address with the "@concentric.com "address. I will continue to look but these clubs could be a mutual contact to AquriumSystems , Bob, and I. Regards, Tom <Mmm, bizarre... do hope, trust the perpetrators will be strung up by their keyboards. Thanks Tom, Bob F who's got a couple of articles to send you... by USPO!>

Problem on Q&A page Bob, While looking into the e-mail problem, I did find something that needs to be fixed right away. I can't do it from here so I'll describe what to do. On the Q&A page, your e-mail address which is in the JPEG (see below) looks like a live hyperlink, because it's blue. It's dead though. What you need to do while in FrontPage is right click on the JPEG, and make the thing a hyperlink to your e-mail address. I think people are clicking on that hoping to automatically get your address and it's not working. That's the only problem I can see. <Done! Thank you for this help. Bob Fenner> Mike

Re: questionnaire/ computer virus This email message had an attachment that had a virus. The virus name is W32.Klez.E@mm . The attachment is A bie.bat It was sent to webmaster@aquariumsystems.com. There was no message just the attachment. It was received on 5/3/02. This is the 3rd time we have rec'd the same virus from you. Please check with your provider to see how to eliminate this. <I receive maybe five to ten of these per day... through our firewall, Black Ice... don't know how to stop... am not sending. Bob Fenner>

Idea What would it take to produce a WWM wall calendar or two for year 2003?? Perhaps we should start the process in time for Christmas. I bet it would get eaten like ice cream. What says you? <A great idea... have been involved in providing images, writing captions for same... Miguel has made a bunch... Do want, think that "posters" (printed goods period) are "in our future"... Calendars might be a good place to start... Even if/as a "freebie" to and through our sponsors, giveaways at trade shows, ersatz bday gifts... Bob F> J --

I've lost the coelacanth... Yo... I was just passing time here at the office and I checked the page for the Coelacanth, and the page is now showing up, giving the 404 error. I didn't move this page anywhere... has it been accidentally deleted? <Arggghhhh! Pls check again. I moved the page to the new FW SubWeb, and now re-linked it (discovered today through the Reports View), to the old broken links elsewhere... This group of fishes "was" originally freshwater... prob. of where to place in WWM scheme of things... better that all groups be divided... e.g. (though not very pleasing): the "puffers" family Tetraodontidae occur in three pages, sets of FAQs, cuz there are totally FW, brackish, AND marine species in use in our interests. Who would like to take a stab at the reports view corrections? I thought so. Will try to catch up a bit every day. Bob F> J --

Thanks and Strippers Hi Guys! <Cheers, my dear> Just wanted to say that I have to read something off your page everyday.  <anything useful? <smile>> You guys are a bunch of witty, practical jokers, and I like it!  <ahhh... humor. A very therapeutic medicine. Recommended daily> You've also helped me with a bunch of questions, so, thanks! <You are very welcome, glad to hear it... send money: preferably small bills for the dancing girls that we entertain nightly at the WWM crew parties> -Becky <with kind regards, Anthony>

WWM Server Service FYI, FWIW, FOL (fish outta luck) Think Datapipe is going through another stint of undeclared "routine maintenance"... have gotten "bumped off" a few times this last hour... trying to make/re-do links w/in and between subwebs... some fun Bob F

Re: WWM Server Service FYI, FWIW, FOL (fish outta luck) Bob, I was putting the calendars onto the site last night and it was intermittently doing the same thing to me. I found a couple of sites chock full of freshwater links today--> http://www.animalnetwork.com/fish/web/linksview.asp http://www.geocities.com/Heartland/Plains/3515/vault.htm http://www.fishlinkcentral.com/links/Freshwater/index.htm http://www.aquarank.com/ It's been busy here at work today, (they know I'm leaving next week so they're piling it on), if I get some time I'll try and work some more on the links. I'll call you first so I don't overwrite any changes. Talk with you later. <Great! I will stay off the Freshwater and Planted Links pages entirely. You should be able to write, save to w/o difficulty. Bob F> Mike

New Calendars Bob, I just finished putting the new calendars on the site--> http://www.wetwebmedia.com/calendars.htm I also removed a few megs worth of old stuff on there. Talk with you soon. <Ahh, "the progress of extraction continues" (Dune), not from the planetologist Kynes. Bob Fenner> Mike

Re: YOU and WWM Bob, I will put some time into this today. I also think I need to add some keywords to the subwebs. Hope you had a good weekend. <Yes... very productive, educational. Heard you and others had a good time down south. BTW, am decided (at this point) to list, sell the subweb ad space for half the root (Marine/Reef)... i.e. 250 per mo. for each of the subwebs (pond, FW, Brackish, Planted Tks.) per top space 100 per each subweb for the shared right border... Please prepare your sales tools/documents for the Net, phone, tradeshow visits accordingly. Bob F> Mike

Re: Parrotfish, WWM help First, thanks for all the parrot fish information! I'll keep you posted if he does well. I know its not likely, but I'll still try to do my best. <Good> As for trying to work on reformatting the faq's, I can most certainly download what's there and send you the updates as attached files. I'll try a few different styles and send them to you and you can tell me if you like any of them, or have any suggestions. I'll try to get a few examples by the end of the week. <A pleasure. Looking forward to the collaboration... A long time coming to have such areas re-ordered, edited... I and many others thank/will thank you. Bob Fenner> Take care, Tami

Re: Have no fear! (a visit from Barb.T within WWM) <surprised at the arrangement of WWM?> Yes, it did actually cause me to say 'Wow!' There was never a doubt that WWM has a tremendous amount of material...but when you see all the actual files, it really sinks in that you've been a very busy man! <We have just begun my friend in fish> It just dawned on me that it was almost exactly a year ago that I found WWM while patiently awaiting...make that impatiently pacing, for my tank to be built/delivered. I came across your site and distinctly recall yelling out loud "I've found marine info heaven!" I do believe I read each and every marine article prior to the tank arriving and am happy to say [boy, I hope I don't jinx myself here] that I have yet to use the hospital tank. As a quarantine tank, absolutely... but am thrilled that there have been no sick/diseased fish. I don't dwell on this because if/when something should develop, I'll probably revert back to true newbie panic! The good news is while in this panic, I could write the crew an SOS! message and when I calmed down...I could go in, reply to myself with "Please read the Marine Disease section of articles at ________" ;-) Ciao, Barb-- <Which you'll likely have edited, appended by then. Bob Fenner>

Have no fear! Good Morning, Bob <Morrow to you Barbara> Well, the 'behind the scene tour' of WWM went quite well last night with Zo. I moved a few sent messages to the dailies and filed a couple old ones as well to get a feel for the system. (I didn't spot your message to us on the dailies until after the fact but had already surmised that if not sure where to file something....gently place it in the 'To-Do' file and retreat!) <Yes... surprised at the arrangement of WWM? It will be "logical" to you... easier than your devising accounting charts... movement of data> I plan to give Steve a hand moving/filing when the 'Zoo Crew' is gone... or is that the 'Crew does the Zoo'? <Hard to state, discern. Think we easily transcend both the keepers and displays.> Take care, Barb-- <Will do so. Bob F>

idea (publishing, yes, retaining e-mail addresses, no) Bob... forgive me if this is a disgustingly capitalistic idea... but: <Mmm, something I haven't proposed already?> Since you are likely/already jumping into the self-publishing/distribution gig... would you like to consider us saving all e-mailed quizzers e-addys with that up-until-now irritating new feature of Hotmail asking if you want an untagged addy (after every reply) added to your address book? <Mmm, no... If we go this route, let's try the TLF bit of "pre-selling this or that" through ads in FAMA... along with other ad possibilities.> I'm thinking if someone cares enough to seek out Bob Fenner and ask him a question, then they wouldn't mind a future notification about a new title or announcement from him. To put the SPAM sensitive (as we all are to the inevitable deluge) at ease, you will of course invite and honor any request in reply/followed link to unsubscribe an unwilling party from seeing a second notice from you. In all likelihood, though... few if any people will be unwilling. <Too much to maintenance... would rather I, and any, everyone else do more productive work> I'm just thinking that you could amass a list of many thousands of names in the 2 year picture and beyond that favor your wisdom/content  <Ha! The only sagacity I'm common with is the spice> and will be very willing consumers to hear of your next work and beyond. Poised and ready, hmmm? Say the word and we will start clicking over there instead of over here as we muck and grind through e-mail. <A good suggestion... but as I state, don't want to offend folks, incur their fear that such a "list" might be sold/distributed. I save no one's e-mail address other than close friends, associates. Bob Fenner>

And another thing ReefkeepingOnline (Reef Central promoted) pays $200-400 per submission up to 4,000 words. Seems quite generous and like a nice online publication. They would love to see something from you no doubt! How about... those magnificent Aussie Inverts...heehee <That's a lot of words! But about going rate per the national fish mag.s... Have a bunch of pieces to other outlets due, and would rather post them to our sites in addition. Bob Fenner>

Re: And another thing Ahhh... my fault, bud. They offer $200 for 2K, $300 for 3K, $400 for 4K. Still the same I suppose.  <Very similar> And yes, point well made and taken that it is better/easier to have your goods available for pasting/posting without other obligations/restrictions. Duh for me <No worries. You are yourself, and vouchsafe choose to share yourself with me, others. No one can/should ask for more. I thank you. Bob F>

Zo And Barb - advance warning (afternoon) Barb and I will be working this afternoon/evening on "The WWM FAQ Process" with happy, happy FrontPage. <Ho boy...> I'll send out an email a little while before we're active. Please leave a few Q/A's hanging around in the 'sent' for us to place on the daily q&A, and a few older ones at the bottom of the daily page for "filing practice"... <Okay... fini'ed the new Planted Tank SubWeb and am going to try to make progress on the new Brackish one today> I'm anticipating we'll be in there between 4 & 6 (EST), and then maybe again after dinner... <Now, not too much pasta you! Will do, Bob F.> Ciao! Zo

Re: WWM help, M/TFH book issues << Very much appreciate the possibility... At this point to "fill-in" responding to our queriers (daily!), while some, a bunch of us are out traveling, diving... And have you join us (where we spend the big moolah from WWM efforts) on same outings >> tell me more? <<<It's our route web's ongoing onslaught of questions (mainly marine) re gear, set-up, livestock, maintenance... Folks you know, principally Steve Pro, Anthony Calfo and I share the answering, moving around of these "Daily FAQs" on www.WetWebMedia.com... and spend the current incoming monies (from sponsors on the shared borders... but soon am hopeful from image sales on our companion site, WetWebFotos...) going on travel adventures... And when some of us are gone, there is a real need to have competent help taking up the slack>>> <<I have written, though not as often, and did hear James was out of town... but have called, left msg.s and... no response. Did get (finally) some news of the grand sum from my 15% of what M gets from TFH (34 cents per copy...)... Di "took" this as part of an A/P she owes for books purchased for resale... I have stopped, not slowed, any/all projects for "them". Am still interested in producing... CD's? Print works on my/our own... and doing the sales, distribution/fulfillment as well... as our friend in common Anthony.C was fortunate in time to have done>> Still no response from James, or a royalty statement or check. I am sending the letter certified on Monday. So, you are buying books from TFH? How's that work? That's what I want to do, too. <<<My wife Diana does some e-tailing (mainly to promote the Knop line, which she distributes in N. Am.... the M/TFH books are a side-line... the big $2,100 (sold some 6,500 or so copies some half year period past) was allowed to her (never sent to me, check or notice) in an invoice on sent books... Do contact JML re... they should be more than happy to send you books to sell... a promotion and better deal for M or TFH. Be chatting, Bob Fenner>>> Eric

FYI: Your site chosen as an Open Directory Cool Site This is to inform you that the website http://www.WetWebMedia.com has been designated a Cool Site in the Netscape Open Directory Recreation/Pets/Fish_and_Aquaria It is very rare that a site comes along with the quantity of consistently high-quality information of Wet Web Media. Despite a few dead links buried in the site, it's a true standout. I'd like to thank you for your efforts in putting such a resource together for the aquarium and W^3 community. This is a site which will truly contribute to the advancement of the aquaristic hobby. Yours, Ben Kalafut Volunteer Editor: Open Directory Project Recreation/Pets/Fish_and_Aquaria Webmaster: Chicagoland Aquarist Society <Thanks much. We're working to improve (make it less dead-linked, more content-filled) every day. Thank you for the acknowledgement and encouraging words. Bob Fenner>

Re: Need new Jpeg boxes for new SubWebs We need to think up a color scheme, I'm thinking softer colors than the ones on there now.  <Okay> I would like to take a look at the color chart with you and come up with something everyone likes. <No need, time> Just throw something on there for now and we can always change it later. <Will do, have done... the present work just not linked, the old not-deleted/supplanted yet> I was looking at the site through AOL the other day and that stinkin' browser really screws things up. I'm also a little worried about Google not being able to see and index the Subwebs. <They're "refresh" rate is the issue here... Their "crawler" (and MSN's... and who knows who else's? Will catch up next pass... In the meanwhile lots of incomplete and dead links> I'll check that out right now. Try and put in a couple of searches and see if the subwebs pop up. <Okay. Bob F> Mike

Walk In/Out Whitsunday's WWM Bob, I just read your humorous article on the Whitsunday's adventure---> http://www.wetwebmedia.com/whitsart.htm <Some fun now!> I would like to forward it on to the Hash as they need something that is actually entertaining posted on there. <Okay with me. Will cc Pete and Jack here. Bob F> Mike

Stat.s server on the fritz Howdy, Would you please give the stats2.datapipe.com server a look-see. For WetWebMedia.com the count has stopped as of about mid-day yesterday. Thanks Bob Fenner

Re: visiting San Diego this weekend Hi Bob -- More details... We fly in on Friday and get there around 12:30. Friday afternoon, we're working. Saturday from 2-8 we're at the product release party at the boss's house. Sunday we fly out at 1:50. Realistically, how long does it take to tour the Birch Aquarium? <Mmm, two hours... There's a bunch to walk around in the area... the S.I.O. Library, NOAA's SWFC (you pay for it, you may as well visit), the North American Tropical Tuna Commission (hold be back, am getting overly excited!)... and the beaches are fab... and then, there's food and drink!> I would have preferred a longer trip, but that will have to wait until some other time. --Ananda <Give me a call when you get settled in. Bob Fenner>

hello WetWebMedia crew (pet-fish career paths) this question is for Bob! I have been in the aquarium hobby/trade for about 8, years, I really enjoy the hobby.  <Me too> I also started my own aquarium maintenance service. IM knowledgeable in freshwater and marine aquaria! I have my own business license and resale permit. I am just a one guy crew, which is me by myself. IM trying to come up and get big in this industry, but the problem is that I don't have money or enough clients to expand myself in the industry! <Ah, another "Catch-22" situation... Best to go slow, build step-by-step... Steve Pro here has his own service business as well... I will cc him here for his input> I would really like to get into exporting my own livestock, so that I can make a profit. or importing if that's the correct phrase?  <Mmm, depends on which end you want to be on... But, I assure you, this aspect of our trade is not simple or easy... Much to discuss, many potential problems, pitfalls... You would be much better off developing aspects of your present business that reward you> im a real enthusiast in this hobby! I met bob at the western marine conference in seaside, California. at the embassy suites. he knows who his buddy is :0) anyhow I was wondering if you could give me any leads in to contacting importers/exporters?  <Many... but... marine, freshwater, koi... live clams, corals... what do you want to do here? Who will you sell to? Do you have a holding facility?> im in Salinas, California. I would also like to ask if you know of anybody that can use me in their company that works solely in aquaria and fish.  <I don't... but would check with the local retailers and other companies in our field for leads in the area> I would like to get my foot in the door and make a career out of this kind of job because it is my passion and I strive daily to put my aquarium skills to good use. bob, if you know of anybody willing to help me out and lend me that helping hand, so that I can help myself, I would be very grateful to you. IM hoping that they will be close to me in Salinas, California. sincerely, your fish friend Carols! <Do read through the WetWebMedia.com Business Index articles: http://www.wetwebmedia.com/indarts.htm including the FAQs files... and chat with the local retailers re possibilities in the trade they're familiar with... Your path will become more defined with your seeking. Become yourself. Bob Fenner>

Re: hello WetWebMedia crew (pet-fish career paths) hi rob yes I do have a holding facility. I am interested in clams and corals. <Ahh, a good area, group of species to get involved in. A friend in the local hobby club just started a clam business. Please read here: http://www.wetwebmedia.com/tridacnidfaq.htm> any input would be appreciated.  <Whom do you buy from now? Do you know of Sea Dwelling Creatures, Walt Smith/Pacific Aqua Farms in L.A.?> one more thing bob, can I be part of your WetWebMedia crew? or do I have to be in san Diego?  <No need to be in Southern California. No "space", need for more help right now, but do keep us in mind... as WWM continues to grow, expand. Bob Fenner> thanks in advance, Carlos

Re: hello WetWebMedia crew (pet-fish career paths) one more thing I am gonna sell to retail outlets, or persons with aquarium service licenses. <Good markets. Bob F>

May sound a lot like Willie Nelson, "on the commode again" "There's so many times I meant to tell you, I'm so happy that you're mine..." Oh, just a big thank-you to all for their complicit involvement. Do really appreciate the co-work, sharing that is WWM. Kudos, thanks, and onward and upward, Bob

Re: May sound a lot like Willie Nelson, "on the commode again" Right back 'atcha, babe...er, bub. It is wonderful to be able to share, learn, guide and be guided in the process. Thanks for just being you! <All I can do my friend. Be seeing you (soon!). Bob F> Antoine

Re: May sound a lot like Willie Nelson, "on the commode again" I wanted to say that I do enjoy the work. Particularly when we are all around. Then there is a lot less for each and a lot less like real work. You also underestimate how honored Anthony and I are. Ask the WWM Crew a Question- Do you have any questions or problems regarding your aquarium or anything aquatic? For answers, send your question to Anthony Calfo, Steve Pro, Bob Fenner. E-Mail us here > WWMCrew To have our names associated with you and to have such clear and bold promotion is certainly a boost to our professional lives. Sincerely, Steven Pro <Man! Am I pumped up! Thanks Esteban. Bob F>

Website Idea Gents, I know yoose guys are already busy, but what about adding a section to the site that provides examples of "good" aquariums (inhabitants and equipment)? <Gosh, what a great idea! This was the most popular part/section of "Aquarium Frontiers"... and was/is an ongoing topic/title for a book...> I know there are a gazillion combinations, but some examples of properly stocked (readily available) and equipped tanks that range from the nano- to the large, with fish only to reef would be interesting and informative. You could even put notes on what additives are necessary and special considerations. Those getting started could have a firm foundation with which to begin. You could make use of all those cool pics Mr. Fenner takes (between sips of beer) <Make that pints> to illustrate the proposed inhabitants. Just a thought....Thanks, David <Thanks for this. Will send around to the "Crew", try to get someone/s to help, make into "for sale" pet-fish articles as well as posting on/to our sites. Be chatting, writing, drinking, Bob Fenner>

Re: Website Idea I have always had this thought in the back of my mind since you mentioned it years ago. It is definitely something that should be pursued. I envision something like the Amano plant tank books with slightly more information. The same thing is being done currently on ReefCentral with the "Tank of the Month". I would be willing to help compile a few examples for any work in the future; my 55 and Bob Nell's fabulous 450 spring to mind. Also, I was going to do something with my new 120 from the ground up. Building the stand, plumbing the tank, filling, stocking, and perhaps a log book. -Steven Pro <Great! I offer to aid you, others who may generate such surveys with editing, images (or spiffing up theirs), and forwarding to hobby magazines for publication and all that goes with same. Let's start with your first effort. Bob Fenner>

RE: Strange... Both work fine for me from the outside.  <What? Even more bizarre...> I've seen this happen before at times when I'm editing, and I just take it on faith that even though I didn't make that change, that everything is in fact fine - and it usually is. I can't explain why this happens, but I think it has something to do with local file caching. <Okay... here's where my faith in faith comes in> Don't know if that helps, but for certain it looks fine from my house via Internet Exploder. <Okay... or I'll have to hold you underwater! Another addn. to the entourage today. Ken Wong of Marine Depot is schlepping along with us on the big tour! Oh yay! Bob F> J -- Subject: Strange... Jas, take a look at the Gobioid survey pc.: http://www.wetwebmedia.com/gobioidmars.htm from outside the system... the dartfish image is gone... and when I try to replace it with one that is in the system... it still looks blank from the outside... as do a couple on the dartfish page: http://www.wetwebmedia.com/dartfish.htm Any idea of what gives? Bob

Hey am I getting discriminated against?! Hi guys, <Howdy> I just wrote a question re: Midas Blennies. For some reason no one answered it. Or posted it. I know you guys have lots of questions. I still feel it was a legitimate question and one that got a fair amount of response. A lot of people like this fish too. And gosh this one probably wouldn't have taken lots of "answering". <Mmm, don't know myself... I generally look at the ones dated a day back and try to respond... otherwise do get to the ones forwarded to me by Steve, Anthony...> I know I write long posts, but I haven't even written in that long. Besides there are longer questions. There are also questions that are more statements. So what gives? <Don't know. This isn't the WWM Crews "real job"... as you are likely aware... Suspect there is just a lag in catching up... do see it in the "in-box" here...> Or perhaps I am expecting things the way they used to be when only one guy was answering and he got back to everybody the same day. And he always answered everything. This is, btw, the second time this has happened, though the other time the comment was short. I don't really expect you put *this* one up there, but I think it deserves an answer, because my feelings are really hurt. <Please do be patient. Am sure no slight to anyone is intended... I have made (I would hope) most all the knucklehead blunders of deleting image work, whole messages, lost addresses... that have "dead-ended" mail on the Net over the years... but don't think this is/has been the case here... Time, patience my friend. Bob Fenner> --des/Jane

can't save to WWM If somebody would like to move the daily pic from email to the daily Q&A, that'd be great. I can't get it to save, and have to run this morning. I got the big one to go onto the main daily image page... <Hotay Zo. Will do so. Bob> -Zo

RE: can't save to WWM <Sigh... do you remember when "gas stations" were called "service stations"? Where is the service in our ISP...? Bob F> Subject: RE: can't save to WWM The image saved as far as I can tell. Did you get that spurious message "authors contact your webmaster; webmaster check your logs?" If so, I'm going to have to do like someone we know and call Data Pipe and give them a second piece of my mind. Yesterday morning [as late as 11] the site was on and offline, so I called: J: "Why is our server down?" DPE: "Oh, I'm doing some maintenance - adding some software. Should be all set in 10 minutes." J: "Was there any announcement for this maintenance?" DPE: "No" J: "Wouldn't you normally do such things off hours?" DPE: "Well, I was going to but it was too early." Personally, having had to do more late-night maintenance sessions than I can count, decided not to lose it at this point, and just said, well thanks for the info and moved on. Today, if we're having similar problems, etc, I'm going to have to reach the neck of someone higher up the DataPipe food chain and explain to them how to run a data provider. This is absolutely A1 shit-ass service we are getting at this point, and certainly something I would be embarrassed to charge money for. I'm gonna get them suckas. So anyway. I'm having a nice day, you? J --

More fun/work on WWM Feeling like doing something necessary for the folks at WWM? Run the Reports View and take a gander at the pyramid of lost/broken links... click on them and Oh Ho! you too can fix what you find. No waiting, and I do thank you. Bob F

WWM Bob, I was just checking out hyperlinks on WetWebMedia and by my 4th click away from the homepage I came upon another one of those blank pages with a title but no content. See here--> http://www.wetwebmedia.com/coldshkfaqs.htm <Thanks for this... of all things, I made this file just yesterday (as you'll see by taking a look at the incept. date)... it will have FAQs placed into it when I get around to finding the time to move them from other files...> I have found numerous pages like this. Is there any way to not have these pages active until something is put on them?  <Not as far as I know, or am aware> I'm just worried about users getting confused by the perceived lack of content on these pages and then bouncing off the site. <A valid concern> Other than that I think things are working well. I will put out a new WetWebNews this evening. <Ah, good> I am also going to mail out a few sponsor pleas, after I rewrite the current one. <Very good> It needs to be shorter and more concise. Talk with you soon. Are you going to the run tonight?  <Not to the run, but Pete and I are off to Bushtrimmers at six thirty, then Gay Boy's moms in LJ for the first RDR "mtg."... want to go?> It's a block away from where I live. Mike <Oh, I'd go to the run... Bob F>

Re: More fun/work on WWM Bob, Believe me, if I had access here from work, I could put a couple of hours a day into this task. <Believe me, if I had some way of gaining you that access, or alternatively accessing that gain to you, I would. Bob Fenner> Mike

Amazon Honor System Payment Information Another 10 bucks in the till. <Cha ah ah chahing! That's about ten biers in Deutschland! Or about 1 1/4 of one at the Marriott in Sharm... not to worry though they have an "Infidels Outlet" for ex-pats (who line/queue up daily for their fix) in town... and we very likely have fridges in the room (woo hoo!). Be spending with you, Bob F> Mike

Almost caught up! Just 63 seconds worth of old FAQs to be placed. Honestly, some are so good they have (just have) to be placed in 3, 4 places... And finding, adding Jas.C's new files, adding them to the Nav. View and Indices... reminds me of Easter Egg Hunts (where's the chocolates!?). Very enjoyable... can't wait for the Germany/Egypt trip- away from this two-dimensional representation of the pet-fish universe. Bob

Re: Pictures from website Tina, I will forward your request for images to Robert Fenner, who owns the rights to them. Thanks for visiting WetWebMedia. Mike Kaechele <Tina, you are welcome to use these images for your presentation. Miguel, we need to pen and place a standard "rights of use" statement re our content on WWM... and a link to same (with your other ongoing notes) on the Homepage. Bob Fenner>

Berghia and Belgium Hello Anthony, <Greetings, my friend!> Well, please do accept my apologizes if I didn't explain myself good. <no worries at all> Indeed it goes over how to get them in quantities for sale as retailer). I thank you for the rapidity you have yet answered me and you may say to Bob from me "he is a lucky man to have holidays now". I wish him all the best a man can wish and to you all who come to Europe in a while, a good trip and a nice stay here. <I will do so and thank you!> I see (no offense) that as a lot of Americans, you are not a great geographer, ah, ah, ah. because Belgium must be two or three hundred kilometers nearer of America than Nurnberg is. At the other side, Belgium is a little country, more little of Germany but it is good to live here. <alas... it is true that many Americans are not at all well schooled on world geography> With all friendship. Claude. <In answer to your question, my friend. I am not aware of many places that wholesale the Berghia nudibranchs. Their production is still so low with a demand so high that most if not all are sold at retail prices. One such place is on the web at http://www.inlandaquatics.com/ you might look them up to see how their availability is. There is a very nice fellow there named Morgan Lidster who perhaps can advise you if they cannot serve you. Otherwise, I will post this request on the WWM board and perhaps some daily readers might write in with knowledge of a farmer with a large supply of these nudibranchs for sale> By the way what do you think of the WWM in French? It begin to take scope, is it not? <very exciting indeed! With kind regards, Anthony> Claude Declercq

Hi Anthony/Steve, Thanks for your email of the Fenner situation. I received some photos in today's mail and thank you for that. Yet, text mail is a problem with my old apple computer. I may checkout some freeware at Barebones.com that could translate those PC text files coming my way, unless you know of some that I can download. One other thing, I know a company owner that needs a good website person that will care for and update as needed his present website. If interested I'll give you his name and phone number (he lives in Florida) and you can take it from there. Thanks again, Bob Goemans <Hi Bob. Hope/trust is all well there. Will be back in the States on 4/5. Bob Fenner>

Fw: virus (Bob F off to the Free Clinic) Tom, I just received an email from Robert Fenner (fennerrobert@hotmail.com) that was infected with a virus. Our virus software caught it and it was deleted without incidence. However, I just wondered if you had a different address for Bob Fenner??? Would you write to him and let him know that a virus infected email was sent. And DO NOT open any email from him if there is a .bat or .exe or .scr attachment to it. There did not seem to be a message... just an attachment. Let me know what you find out. <Yeeikes! I hope not... we have hard and software firewalls. Do try BobFenner@wetwebmedia.com (not case sensitive). Are you going to Interzoo? Want to join our entourage to the Red Sea, diving for a week or two? Tom or Karin... Bob Fenner> Thanks Karin <Karin, do I know you? As far as I know have not sent an e-mail your way. Sorry re viruses... do receive the 40k bit most days... do delete any executable file from anyone... whether you know them or not... unless you want to take a risk on a "off-line" (from your intranets) machines. Do send mail through BobFenner@wetwebmedia.com... we have software and hardware firewalls to prevent such outside attacks... Bob Fenner> Virus, etc. Bob, Karin did not specify what it was that her scan caught, but I wanted to let you know to beware. <Appreciate this> I will not be at InterZoo. Marineland and Aquarium Systems do not send consultants to it, in fact not many from Marineland are going. <A shame. Seems short-sighted to not even attend> I think Ed Mowka may still be going but that may end up being on his own. The booth we always had there was actually a combination of Aquarium Systems France and the Italian electrical company NEWA that made the VisiTherms so we actually were only visitors. Obviously I won't be going on to the Red Sea and with the politics I probably would be holding off anyway. <More the reason for me to go> I am planning a week in Bonaire this July and would still like to get to Pohnpei or possibly back to Fiji as an alternate sometime this year although August is about the only good time left after late May. <Mmm, please keep me informed here. All great places to visit, dive... if there is room, interest, I may well join you> With MACNA back on for late Sept. and possibly the AZA meeting in early Sept. and some family conflicts in the later fall, I am running out of good travel times. We do need to get together for a week diving one of these days. regards, Tom <Agree. Be seeing you my friend. Bob Fenner>

email and virus warnings... Hello Bob, I work for Aquarium Systems, but I don't think that we have ever met. However, I am the person who puts together the SeaScope for Tom Frakes, so I've seen your name many times before. <Ah, yes. This is where I've seen your name> Let me say that I am also MIS and Web Master for Aquarium Systems and therefore filter all the mail that comes in to our published email address for Aquarium Systems and Jungletalk International.  <Wowzah... that's a few full-time jobs> I also filter mail that is addressed to webmaster@aquariumsystems.com. We get mail almost every day addressed to info@aquariumsystems.com or info@jungletalk.com or webmaster@aquariumsystems.com that have a virus attachment. I am quite aware of safe emailing protocol and our software warns me if there is a suspicious attachment and those emails are deleted before their virus can spread. Most of them come from unknown addresses or unknown people. <You are much more aware than I then> In regards to the one that had your name on it.... I only sent this warning to Tom because I didn't know if he had virus protection and I knew that he corresponds with you and might be getting email from you. <I see, and understand> I also wanted him to warn you... as obviously he did. The email we received from your hotmail address was addressed to one of our published accounts... not to me personally. Tom usually gives out the webmaster@aquariumsystems.com or info@aquariumsystems.com to people who are sending photos for SeaScope so it is not unusual for me to get email from known people at those addresses. Perhaps that is how it came to be on your list. The point is, however, that an email DID came here from your "hotmail" address and it HAD a suspicious attachment which our virus protection alerted us to. There was no message in that email which also made me suspicious that it actually came from you. <Me too... I receive a few of such "stolen e-address" messages a week. In querying their supposed senders, they assure me they did not send them> One can only guess how it came to be sent to us... ???? but I wanted you and Tom to be aware that it did happen. This email, that I am answering right now, came to me just fine and with no attachments. So perhaps it was just a one time occurrence...??? Let's hope! <Agreed. Can't remember the name of the virus-group, but this is/was a common (two files, one about 40 kb, the other empty or so), a few to several months back...> Karin Lohiser MIS, Web Master Aquarium Systems/JungleTalk International <Thank you for the heads-up. Bob Fenner, WetWebMedia.com>

Re: WWM  Called within the last 60 mins and was assured that it was in the queue, and would be worked on. While it doesn't seem to be occurring, I'll probably call them between three and four EST. <Rootin' for ya, and us! Bob F> J --

Fw: ticket #111108: Polite request Hmmm.... interesting. J -- <After reading, re-reading this... and chatting w/ you on the phone... am wondering if Don.P is calling Billy.G and selling "his" great idea/s on how to save MS from financial ruin... Bob F>

WWM back and downloading... and slides from Austr. done first pass... Gang, the server is "live"...  Re: the upcoming trips... do be practicing your photo techniques puhleeze (Just about tore a ligament lifting my desk trashbin tossing the first pass slides that are bunk). Want to optimize our experience visual stimulation and recording wise... will be bringing cameras, video cameras for all who lack otherwise, and instruction materials... Fish tanks, specimens therein, and the ever so self-educational taking pix underwater... Be seeing, diving, photographing with you. Bob WWF

Re: WWM back and downloading... and slides from Austr. done first pass... Bob, Glad to hear, the problem is solved. Thanks for righting that sinking ship, Jason. I'll buy you a beer in Germany.  <Hey! You cheapskate! It's a real bargain there!> When will I be able to gain access to the site? <Name them and I'll do for you... faster here> I need to pull the 2 deadbeat advertisers off there to make room for some new ones. I'm looking forward to diving in and taking pictures of fishes in the Red Sea in about 31 days and counting... <Can't wait. Bob F> Mike

Re: Dedicated Server, WWF/WWM FAQs amalgamation, the future Bob, no problem. I wrote a few of your guys back without all the cc's. No need to clutter everybody's mailbox. I understand there are some issues the tech guys have to work out. No big deal, and no hurt feelings by choosing someone else. Since I run the ISP, I have a lot of flexibility there. Just trying to return a favor from you guys answering some of my more esoteric questions. <I understand and thank you> As an aside, I always wondered why don't you guys answer questions in the forum ?  <Mmm, we all do at times. Am mainly a simple browser there... as is more important for me to learn, enjoy others efforts and be part of offering the platform only> Not answers posted there, but why don't you take those email questions in the hotmail account, and your answers, and post them to the Robert Fenner forum. When someone clicks, just draw them their. It would make follow up threads much easier to follow along from top to bottom (multi-day responses). You can keep the forum closed to new posters (or open, if you want outside contribution), and just make it part of the board that only certain people can post. That way, you increase activity on the board (which later translates to some $$$ later (even though banner ads are difficult to make money at)), allows searchability in the forum for people who want to search old questions (rather than waiting for you guys to classify the questions into the FAQ that take forever), and is much cleaner. <Sounds like a very worthwhile addition... The only real "answer" I can/will proffer is that "there's no time", make that something in the way of interest perhaps. If there was someone who wanted to do so, or some "magical" (Zo) way of migrating all there, that would be fine, and fine with me... Will cc the WWM Crew here.> You'll lose the google searchability, but then again you can replicate important threads/topics back into the corresponding FAQ's anyhow so that they'll be x-ref'ed. But it allows a much broader search in the forum to be done and much broader informational value from the entire repository of answers. . . just a thought. <A good one. Mmm, our intent in building all the present content into one "WetWebFotos" designated nomen is to actually do about what you suggest, PLUS add graphics (photos, drawings, video)... and more going forward. Do hope to have more discussion, involvement with you on this in future. Bob Fenner> regards, Ed

Cleaning House Hi, I would like to add information to the feedback page--> http://www.wetwebmedia.com/WWM/MikesFolder/wetwebmedia_information_page.htm by listing all of the contributors to the WetWebMedia website. Give me your info and I'll put it on there. Or I can pull it from the WWM Crew page and combine them. I'm just looking at redundant information on the website and clearing it. <Neat. Looks good. Bob> Mike

Hi Bob Just to say that I appreciate all your hard work. I have never come across a site with so much information anywhere. It is a great site, please keep it up. By the way I am from the UK and although a lot of the equipment etc. you talk about is unavailable over here I still believe your site is the most comprehensive around. Thanks again. Tony <thank you very kindly for saying so... do keep learning and sharing your wisdom>

greetings, programs! Yo yo... been on the phone with DataPipe four times already today. Give me a nudge when you are online and we should talk. <What is going on here? Who killed the Kennedy's? Bob F> J --

Just when you thought it was safe... I've gotten "the message" again this morning. Because it's time for me to get scooting, I'm going to make an attempt at fixing one thing quick and then I have to dash. <Arrggghhh> Zo, don't be surprised if you get the message while doing the image of the day, and also don't be surprised if that file is saved, even if it says it can't. <Am finding it harder and harder to be surprised here> Bob, et al... I will contact DataPipe upon my arrival in the office and see what we can see. With any luck, the number of repairs in a 24 hour period will wear them down and they will be more willing to look into why this continues to happen. Perhaps we can make a case for some free service or something, or at least credit for a month. <As mentioned to Miguel, am not interested in more "free svc." we can't use from DP. Am inclined to take site elsewhere or drop. Bob F.> Questions - comments? J --

Wednesday morning theory Question for Bob and Mike: Did either of you ever try to create a new "Search Page" in FrontPage, thereby activating the FrontPage Search Bot??? Anyway, this little item does... guess what, builds lists of words. And it is access to these lists that is giving us grief. At this particular moment, I can't get to the back end of the server to see what little this "bot" might have left behind, but I have a strong feeling I am on the right track. I'm going to work on how to perform a search-bot-ectomy and with any luck, we can pass this procedure on to DP and help them help us. At least buy some pain-free time before we move to another provider. So... what says you? <A possibility... I also want all to consider whether they've allocated enough server space to WWM (300 megs is s'posedly what we pay for, and the last save I have is 303 mil. bytes plus...). Last time we had these sorts of problems all was solved with addition of more space. Bob F> J --

Re: Wednesday morning theory Bob, Over 300 Megs? It was just 200 a month ago. I wonder what happened? <Mmm, think a bunch of the byte-age has to do with the FP side... but do look at the last save you have... the actual site is about 130 megs., the "bytes used" 303 plus mil.> We couldn't possibly have put that much more content on the site, or could we? We need to go through the site ASAP, and get rid of large files that aren't being used, namely images. Has anyone been adding large image files lately? <Done daily with the daily image. Obviously someone (Zo likely) has been periodically cleaning out the old ones. I did the same a couple days back, thinking space was the problem... The Reports View does need to be run and someone (you?) put in a bunch of time cleaning this and other issues up...>Those FAQ's don't take up that much space. Hopefully the reports view will be functional again so we can clean house. <Agreed and agreed. Bob F> Cheers, Mike

RE: Just when you thought it was safe... Actually, I cannot connect at all this morning, via FrontPage. "The server could not complete your request..." WWFotos has 'simultaneous update protection', by the way, ever since the last visit to San Diego, and Bob said such functionality was an obvious "necessity". If two people try to modify an article at the same time, it'll tell you who else has saved before you, and ask if you want to overwrite. <Sounds reasonable> Just thought I'd mention that... not to plug my work too much, you know. Shouldn't mention that WWFotos is equipped to handle a million articles and 30,000+ photos... no, wouldn't want to appear too proud... wouldn't want to appear that I'm making hints or anything... -Zo <What happens if Zo goes away? If he sells his software?... I'd rather not go on. Bob F>

thoughts What if Zo signed the software over to you, so it was legally owned by WWM? <What? On the one hand, what would I/we do with it w/o his ongoing help in making it run? On another hand, why would I want such license? I am not in "the computer software biz", nor want to be. On a third hand, why should he want to do so? On the last hand of this Hindu god spanking, why would you suggest such?> I mean... what's the conspiracy here for Zo to go elsewhere and sell this? <Mmm, don't know, actually do know what you (might) be getting at here. I do hope that "we" can all get ahead (financially among other ways) by our individual (and even collective) efforts... You two are "in the biz" so to speak, and such a tool as WWF really seems like head-on course for real use, sale in a very big market... really> In my opinion it has never really been on the table. I mean sure, the package could be re-used for something else, but Zo and I, we keep fish so... and if Zo gets hit by a bus, well I can support it - hell, I've already been in that code up to my elbows. <Agreed to an extent> I don't know, it's just odd to think that you would rather drop the whole thing rather than proceed with something stronger and better. <And different.> Somehow I think/hope you have projected mine and Zo's motivations are somewhere beyond WWM which is in fact not the case. We love WWM, and we love Bob Fenner, and we want to continue this effort. <In part, a very large portion, my misgivings with the current WWM problems are a direct reflection of misgivings re "wasting" your time. I do strongly feel that all the parties involved dearly care for the projects... as evidenced by the unceasing efforts on their behalf, their statements...> I also feel very strongly that the panache of any stock photo selling will be enhanced by the WWM brand name, which would be in jeopardy if we canned the whole thing. Any initial take on the WWF as a product would be generated almost entirely via WWM. <Agreed... and was the intent, design... I thought we would be able to link the two sites via their pix mainly...> Honestly, in spite of what Slick Willy might have said about LLC's and Type-C/S, profit is not the most important thing going here - promotion of WWM is. Don't get me wrong, profit is good, but only if it keeps WWM going. Don't know... what do you think? <Do agree the vehicle comes a priori, ahead of any consequent concern, considerations> And another thing... I'm really anxious to put together WWM as an ongoing concern, for book publishing, photo selling, and the sky's the limit. I'm on board, Zo's on board, and we want you on board too... in fact, the whole thing falls down if you aren't. I mean really, we want to help <I appreciate this. Am, was just downhearted today (the root has gone off line three times already) by DP's lack of diligence, apparent difficulties, lack of java.> Is like Japan - the WetWebMedia concern. I'm somewhat shaken that you would abandon WWM at this point, it's only just getting going. <Perhaps abandon, yes. Not w/o more input, information, tries at reconciling problems, no> Will call later - need to go meet with "the man". <Good luck there. Be chatting, Bob F> Cheers. J --

FP2K I've been researching the website hosting jungle and am formulating some ideas. Check this link-->http://www.rhyton.com/products/virtual-v-hosting.htm I will continue looking into this and I plan to talk with Datapipe later today to put the heat on them to offer us a solution. I really don't think the problem is with FP2K. I think it's on Datapipe's end and we may have to switch hosts. <Am interested. Bob F> Mike

Yet Another Original Idea/Save from DP! http://www.ipswitch.com/support/WS_FTP/index.asp Don Perry of DP suggested going with FTP rather than http to keep WWM going... along with DreamWeaver perhaps... What say you? Otherwise, the site cannot be added to, changed currently. Bob F

WSFTP in, FP le boot? Jason, Don Perry gives you the nod (and likely the club) re switching out/abandoning FP in place of WSFTP. Can, will you explain how this works (simply) and whether we should "go with it". We, WWM are dead in the water with FP. Bob F

Re: That's another work around... not really the same as petitioning MS for their input. <Okay... sadly, Bob F>

Re: Bob,  I've been using FTP through FP2K, with the Larrikins site and it works well. You will lose your Nav view though and all of the other tools you are used to in FrontPage. Switching over to DreamWeaver will require us to get re-educated with new software. I think you can see the difficulties there. We can try a practice migration from FP2K to DreamWeaver using their migration wizard, just not quite sure how to approach it, as I don't have any DreamWeaver experience. Again, these solutions only open up more questions. Mike <Mmm, let's see if Jas has any more, real luck/fortune with switching to another host. Bob F>

Re: FP2K This is the key phrase in the following article- "a term apparently invented to confuse consumers". I'm sick of all of this confusion. I am starting to believe that we won't even get straight answers from Microsoft. I've seen about 1000 different explanations for these on-going problems and I suspect there will be thousands more. I will keep researching. Mike <Eloquently put. I am of the same consternation. Bob F>

Re: FP2K I'm not convinced by that marketing blurb that our problems will not follow us... Main problem here is getting DP to make a tech support call to Microsoft on our behalf, detailing the problems and getting some reasonable solutions, no work arounds - which is where we are right now. <I just hung up with Don Perry/DP. To my question of whether they would be calling MS re... he said no... that "the" problem was the size of the site...> The issue here is that the "design" of WWM is bringing these problems on itself. I'm sure when you talk to DP, they're going to wield that like a dull knife. Cheers, J -- <Bob, bludgeoned>

Re: FP2K Also, as long as you are looking, you might want to check out the following: http://www.cervalis.com/index.htm - have actually visited their data center, is a top notch operation. http://www.pair.com/ - have several friends who use these guys. <Jason, please make the decision... as our carbon-based GUI you are best choice to do so. Bob F, who will credit card number to who you choose, and call, dismiss DP, upload this AMs back up of WWM, sub-webs>

Re: FP2K How about this... I've just set up another box - this one is all alone, no one else is on it - it's set up for FrontPage, and is what we are using to "sell" the same service that DP, et al do. Now, this being a fresh, clean install on an under [non] utilized box should be a good platform for a fresh start from scratch. My request would be that Bob [please] copy your most recent backup of WWM to the tuskfish web server. Once in place, I can beat the tar out of it and make a determination pretty quickly - are we doomed to use FTP [huzzah!] to move files around or is the root really that DP doesn't want to try and make us happy. <Am sending this AM's copy right now. PLEASE do not open till I send you notice that it has gone all the way through the routine> I am sticking with my original suggestion that the flat architecture is what put us in the position that we are in now, and as such, that must be addressed, no matter who we use for a hosting provider. No "virtual-server" voodoo, mumbo-jumbo is going to change the fact that WWM represents over 1,000 pages and 10,000 images, all in a flat structure. Imagine if these were all real pieces of paper on your desk... <I can do so... easily. Throw in a couple thou slides, a couple of light tables, cold pizza and a flat seven-up and you gotta deal> What this little experiment will allow me to do is accurately determine if DP is short changing us, and as a result giving out mediocre advice. <Okay... in the meanwhile find us another host> So... copy that sucker up there and let me wail on it. If the server holds up, then we'll meet at that juncture and proceed from there. At that point, it's probably going to boil down to two things - a hosting provider that gives us a warm/fuzzy, and some major work on the folder structure to approximate something that will scale better than what we have today. If the server blows up, then... well... then I make a mad dash for the directory structure that I am promoting and start the test all over. <Sounds good... in fact, like the only game in town> Again, just to reiterate, DP is not the core of our problems. I suspect that their hands are tied to a certain extent, and may even be fed up. Screw them, they're getting paid to do this... if I can present compelling proof that they can fix the problem on the server, then we can present that to them or move on. No matter what happens next, if WWM is to continue, FP or FTP, that directory structure has to change. Questions - comments? <None at this time. Bob F> Cheers, J --

Zo speaks up Jas started with: "What if Zo signed the software over to you, so it was legally owned by WWM?" Bob's replies (chopped into answerable tidbits): "what would I/we do with it w/o his ongoing help in making it run?" You'll always get more help from me, Jas, and who knows who else, than you get from DP, BillieG, or anyone else who'll sell you a shrinkwrapped box. <Maybe I can go out suitably attired> "why would I want such license?" A license would give you, Bob, dba WetWebMedia, the legal right to run and modify the software as you see fit, for as long as you see fit. <Oh? Oh!> You would not own the Intellectual Property, any more than you own the IP for FrontPage, though you do own a similar license. Such a license does not allow you to slap a new label on the product and sell it. With WWFotos, at least you have source code that someone like Jason, AND ME, FOR CHRISSAKE, can actually fix - vs. waiting and hoping for the mysterious "next version", scheduled for 2004.  <What would same software "look like" to me/us as actual users? Will/would we have "views" as now with FP (when/if it works)?> "why should he want to do so?" Because I give a damn, dammit. I'm willing to do just about anything to make WWMedia/WWFotos into everything they could and should be. I don't even see why such 'legalities' should exist between us, I call you friend. I call Jason friend, and I mean that. Forever. The idea of a formal license is just one (desperate?) front, in the battle to get Bob to accept WWFotos for what it is. <Mmm, actually... my point exactly. Am not interested in, worried about issues of "ownership"... just ongoing functionality and the first three words therein... id est "fun"> WWFotos is the ultimate vehicle for BobContent. WWFotos is the ultimate structure to build an online community of people like us. And WWFotos is just barely underway, less than 1/3 of my ideas actually implemented. <Okay> "On the last hand of this Hindu god spanking, why would you suggest such?" Because I told him he could on the phone, and he already knew it anyway, because he knows me rather well by now. "such a tool as WWF really seems like head-on course for real use, sale in a very big market... really" Not so big as you think. But sure, I'd like to think that WWFotos "The Portal Software" really has such potential. But today, it's just that - potential. The software isn't even remotely ready for "shrink-wrap". And without a big, successful 'client' (WetWebMedia) such software NEVER gets off the ground. Oh, and trust me, WWPortalSoftwarePackage has PLENTY of competition. No, none are as well tuned to a visually oriented, biology/taxonomy-structured audience, plus the killer media database, and all that. But that power only further limits WWFotos applicability in the vast market called "Internet Portals". Jason: "if Zo gets hit by a bus, well I can support it" YES. In fact, ANY capable Java/database programmer can support it, and there are more than just two of us in the WWM 'fan club'. Jason is intimately familiar with the inner workings of WWF, and Barb is quite experienced with the GUI. It's really not black magic. Really. That's just a load of shit from programmers determined to keep their fat salaries. <Comforting, but would rather stick with the present grp. of cohorts, pet-fish types... and maybe add a few more going fwd.> Bob: "In part, a very large portion, my misgivings with the current WWM problems are a direct reflection of misgivings re "wasting" your time."It will indeed be a waste of all our time if you drop the project, you grouchy bastard. If you never, ever get into WWFotos, that's fine - Barb and I can run it 'on the side' of WWM, forever a secondary sister project. And it will eventually (probably rapidly) evolve into an unstoppable, undeniably attractive "destination", as it was originally envisioned by ME. I know that vision is shared by Jason, and Barb, and I *thought* we were, at one time, -all- sharing that vision. But one day, Bob suggested that Barb ought to stop inputting articles to WWFotos. <What is "inputting"? I thought it would be better to (re)direct our collective efforts to selling image work (the original intent sez me) and likely link the present WWM/FP work to it (WWF), that's all> Well, WWFotos is a great shell, but without the BobContent - it's lame, lame, lame. A taco without any filling. In fact without Bob, the number one content provider is a certain forum participant. That should speak volumes. <At least a leaflet> Jason: "Honestly, in spite of what Slick Willy might have said about LLC's and Type- C/S, profit is not the most important thing going here - promotion of WWM is." BINGO. On the nose. I wholeheartedly agree. Sure, I want to travel, dammit. I want my family to see the world, the tropics, etc - I won't deny that. And I think WWM/F is a very legitimate and promising way to make that happen. If that's profit - (and it surely is) then GREAT. I don't want a Ferrari, that's for sure, I'd be too embarrassed to own such a thing, I think it's unethical. Jason: "I'm really anxious to put together WWM as an ongoing concern, for book publishing, photo selling, and the sky's the limit." Thank you, Jason. Those words could/should be right out of my mouth. Bob: "was just downhearted today" Well... put it behind you, PLEASE - it's very, very disturbing for me. I believe Jason said he was "somewhat shaken" but I'm sure that was a serious understatement.  <And am sure you know "when I mean it", whatever mean, it, is... Am not "going away", but looking for better ways to share, not mis-use further my friends, associates time, efforts. Am just, very earnestly, seeking "answers" at this point. See below> I'd like to see Jason's plans for rescuing WWM work out. That just buys me, Barb, Jas, (the WWFotos Triumvirate?) a little more time to bring our baby even further up to speed - and it's a very formidable speed, trust me. -Zo, in rainy Michigan. <What sort of time frame till WWF could be made into WWM? What looks, functionality can we expect? Can we use the current name/IP? Others input please. Bob F>

WWF Hi Bob, Regarding: <What sort of time frame till WWF could be made into WWM? What looks, functionality can we expect?> Currently there are 354 articles transferred from WWM to WWF. These include all of the marine fish articles [page 1 & 2] Articles have been edited, <<Thank goodness... A huge, and much-appreciated task>> linked and include 99% of the pictures. [Those pics I wasn't able to 'easily' find were marked *To do*] Also, the *Non-fish* section under marine on WWM-----all articles have been transferred/edited/linked and I am one day away from having all invertebrate pics posted. [2 articles need pictures] <<Almost all the articles really need more, updated pix... the process continues, and will have to... indefinitely... This is one of the most fun parts of the whole schlemiel> All *Coral* articles have been transferred/edited to WWF---still need to link to other articles and post all pics. This will be the next area I tackle along with intermittently working on the *Pond* section on WWF. I have transferred, I believe the first 13 pond articles and they've been edited and linked but need pics and to then continue transferring the remaining articles. Tis the season for ponds so this will be done a.s.a.p.  <<As a "sub-web" of sorts? I do want to sub-divide the parts...>> <When will WWF be complete?> Depends...like I said, I want to get the pond section complete [2 weeks?] and then finish the last marine sections [set-up and maintenance]. Slow but sure is the motto. <<A time-honored approach>> *One* of the things I see the format on WWF providing is: The selling of pics is a priority and will be a great service. Consequently there is the 'impulse buy' scenario. Someone reading an article on WWF and comes across a pic they 'just have to have'. Whamo! They see it, they buy it, they got it! <<In the world of what I thought was the Web, it doesn't matter if there is another linked site, server doing this... but all in one place (stipulated the software, hardware, people-wear work) is highly preferable to me. Thank you for your work, input here. Bob F.>> All for now, Barb--

Re: Dial-Up upgrade costs, WWM Yeah, the dialup connection was killing me when using FrontPage. It costs me $49.99 per month. I was going to expense it to Pro Aquatic Services Company. Anything you or WWM could contribute would be greatly appreciated. <Hotay, hold onto those receipts. We'll figure out something fair> Sincerely, Steven Pro Dazed & Confused about all the WWM, Datapipe, FP, et al stuff <Uh, me too. Don't know what we might do... but something has to give, quick. Bob F>

WetWebMedia.com Net Host Our site: www.WetWebMedia.com continues to be non-functional. We have called support numerous times the last four days re ongoing difficulties, error messages, with varying "fixes" and suggested changes from you. The current situation: the site won't even load to our machines from your server. "The server could not complete your request. Contact your Internet service provider or web server administrator to make sure that the server has the FrontPage Server Extensions installed. For more specific information, click Details." Are you able to fix this on your end? If not, please make this known ASAP. We have thousands of "customers" daily, sponsors that pay for the updated content of our site and sub-webs. Robert Fenner

Outside help with NT I see your conversations about setting up user accounts to make editing easier on yourselves. If you are using NT (which I am guessing at) it's not as hard as a person would think. The permissions are set up with each person in regards to what they can or can not access. Or you can just lock everyone out and let them work between certain hours. :) But you all seem to share in the work of answering questions. (You are so quick in your response times) But I could help you answer any question you have since college was suppose to prepare me for networking. :) Let me know if you would like more info. Keep up the good work, I have found many answers on this site. Ann <Thank you for the offer. We are at a juncture in development, continuing at this point. Will gladly ask for your assistance if/when can use. Bob Fenner>

Re: Polite request <Jas, will you please follow-up to see if/when this routine, fix-try has been applied at DP? And report to us/WWM? Thank you! Bob F> Greetings, Since this past weekend we have had repeated issues with our site, www.wetwebmedia.com which is hosted with you. After many, many phone calls to your organization, the advice handed down to us has been, "Try DreamWeaver." or "Try FTP." Honestly, this was not the correct answer, and was much easier to interpret as "Go away, you bother us." Frankly, for the $120 monthly reoccurring charge, we expected a little more effort on your part. After much research, I have nailed down the problem and have a solution in hand. The entire issue revolves around the fact that by default, your servers do not use the Windows 2000 Indexing Server for the FrontPage Search Bot. Rather, the only other option is to use WAIS based searches. With this enabled, every time the task "Recalculate Web" is performed, the WAIS index files are rebuilt. It is these very files which are causing our problems. Here is the multi-step solution, some parts of which we need to do, and some of which we would politely request that you do: 1) Delete all HTML files containing a reference to the FrontPage Search Bot [our chore - completed]

2) Delete all files in the path \ROOT\_vti_txt\default.wti [our chore - completed]

3) Delete the directory default.wti in the directory _vti_txt [our chore - completed]

4) Re-enable the FrontPage extensions [DataPipe, please, if you wouldn't mind]

5) Recalculate Hyperlinks [DataPipe, please, also if you wouldn't mind]

Now, the only way this will "not work" is if I have missed a file referencing the Search Bot. During the recalculate task, all files are read, and bots are acted upon. As long as I've kept up my part of the tasks, the "All.*" files will not be replaced into \ROOT\_vti_txt\default.wti\  Please expedite this request. On normal days this site is updated continuously, and at this point we are several days behind. Additionally, you might want to add this to your bag of tricks as no one to date at DataPipe was able to come up with a meaningful solution such as this. Thank you for your help. Sincerely, Jason Chodakowski

Re: Dedicated Server Yeah... visi.net is also in the list, but those two that I sent up yesterday - Cervalis and Pair are pretty much the preeminent players. Visi.net looks to me to be a lot like CTTEL, smaller competitor... not really completely equipped to go toe-to-toe with a Cervalis-type, but surely not lacking in spirit. Let's ride out the day and see how DataPipe responds. I'll probably follow them up with a phone call here shortly... <Hotay... am hoping. Bob F> J --

Re: WWM Daily Image <Zo, how were you able to log-on to WWM server? FTP, bro.> <Mmm, how can I, should I do so? Dangers? Bob F> Best consult with Jason on that, he might better know what's going on over at DP... Jason?<Jason... any luck with the dark wanna-be "heroes" at DP? Any advice re FTP'ing stuff to/from WWM? Am downloading all Hotmail responses, saving off/modifying images from same for later publishing to WWM... Bob F>

Re: Dedicated Server Jason, et al No problem guys. We're a decent size(several K customers), but not on the same level of dellhost, verio, etc. Obviously the easiest way is if you guys can resolve your issues with your current provider. I was just extending an offer from one fish enthusiast to another (actually you guys are a bit more than enthusiasts :). I'm just extending an helping hand for assistance. Drop me a line if we can be of any. regards, Ed <Thank you again for your offer of assistance. And do keep on us... some of the folks here are "real computer types"... Myself, not much. Bob F>

front page problems, 4/8 Bob... et al. Checking in - it's 6:56am, EST on 4/8 and I am still getting the same error message about saving files. <Do check with Zo re the time, files he is "on"> "An error occurred accessing your FrontPage web files. Authors - if authoring against a web server, please contact the webmaster for this server's site. WebMasters - please see the server's system log for more details." <Same msg. I get, keep getting> I suggest we ask DataPipe what the log says - I for one would really like to know. I'm not going to bother with much more this morning as it would appear I'm not going to get very far, or at the very least see that message over and over again while the document is actually being saved. <Mmm, will you call this time? 1-877-773-3306> Also, if you'd like to discuss that folder structure at some point today, I'd be happy. I can even build a demonstration for you, on a second server. I can call from work. <Changing the folder structure will forestall these sorts of errors? I know, recall you have suggested this before... Bob F> Cheers. J --

might I convince you To post your latest backup of WWM to http://tuskfish.wetwebfotos.com/ ??? This is a server in my data center which I set up as a backup. It should have the same username and password, excluding your most recent change to the password. If you put up the latest version of the site, I can work on it locally, and with any luck get you a better example of what I mailed you about yesterday. I still stick with my 'guess' that this problem is being caused by the number of documents in the main/root directory. Give me a shout if problems are bad - the work number is 800 922 XXXX - dial 8 to get to extensions, and dial 6495 to get to me. Cheers, J -- <Jas... "Jim" at DP says "no problem" on his end... Suggests we/WWM switch to something call MS Inderdev, available from their Visual Studio... "more robust"... Do you, Zo, know about this upgrade, software for website authoring? ONE LAST TIME: DO NOT LOG-ON TO THE SITE W/O NOTIFYING ME. Bob F> Re: might I convince you InterDev is infinitely more complex than FP, I'm quite familiar with it, but you might find it a steep cliff to climb, not really like FP at all. <Am oblivious, totally, at this point... can/will learn to use whatever tool/s necessary, or abandon this project> In the interim, please consider humoring me with that copy of your most recent backup, I'm just going to use tuskfish to test something. <Being done as we key/read. Check in about half hour. Bob F> Let me know. J --

Re: might I convince you Do have access to InterDev, the M$ 'Professional Development Suite' - not sure what it'll really do for us, as I do indeed suspect the problem is server-side. However, if it'll appease DP, we should give it a wing. I've not used InterDev in several years, so have no familiarity with what it does and how, but will give it a look-see, and spread the joy... <Sounds good, err, better... let's settle on your stmt. to "try and see". Bob> -Zo

Re: might I convince you > InterDev is infinitely more complex than FP Right, truedat - when I said 'spread the joy via postal mail' of course I really meant 'spread the misery' - Interdev is MS's Enterprise Programming Suite - a very big deal, and though I've not seen the web-authoring facilities (web hardly existed last time I used Interdev!) I'm sure he knows whereof he speaks... <Jason is trying an experimental fix with FP2k today... Let's wait, hear his input re Inderdev. Bob> -Zo

Re: WWM Woes Bob, I'm having trouble understanding exactly what is going on here. Haven't the folks at Datapipe been able to explain the problem and recommend some solutions that will work? <No valid, real, useful explanation... at least as far as I can gauge... have been recalc.ing and re-booting server... and some (talked with six folks/tech.s) have suggested going with other software/MS...> Maybe we need to find a new, more reliable, host. I will start doing the research on this. I think we need a dedicated server, with just our website on it. I'll send along some options and I will contact Datapipe and grill them for information. <Do grill whoever you deem worthy. Jas.C is going ahead w/ my full support, in clustering, building folders, folders of folders to tree-out the thousands of files that are the WWM root-web... I am hoping and hopeful that this will make the current problem go away for quite a while (Jas said maybe the whole year), and will do other work (time allowing, have mercy, to make the other sub-webs real and delete their files, folders... from the root-web... which may get us out to FP2004 update... and then who knows... sub-divide the root-web, sub-webs further? Am sure that "other fixes" will be forthcoming with the growth of the Net, time going forward. Bob F> Mike

Re: WWM Woes The house cleaning is a great idea. I have been doing a bit of this already. Stream lining the site can only help. I've actually had a hard time bringing up the reports view to find unlinked stuff. I have also found numerous pages that Bob has put on the site which don't have anything on them, other than a title. I think Bob said he was using these pages as place holders for future articles. I think all of them should be removed too. What else can we do to improve this situation? <Don't remove any of these "place marker" files... most are unlinked by design... used for "treeing-out" files and folders for my use in the Nav. View. Truncating this tool by deleting the files may be just the sort of thing that is causing us trouble. Again DO NOT DO ANYTHING TO THE SITES IF YOU DON'T KNOW WHAT EFFECT/S IT WILL HAVE. Do delete your own defunct work. Bob F> Mike

Re: WWM Woes Bob, I haven't deleted any of your files. I didn't realize these empty pages had a use. <Yikes... of course Miguel... I wouldn't just make them up> Some of them are linked, I have found them while bouncing around the site looking for FAQ's for the WetWebNews page. I think I understand what Jason is up too, and that may clear up a few of these problems. I'm not sure about the idea of using some different software, I think that will require every single file to be transferred one at a time. <Not in the MS or MacroMedia cases... but no worries... see below> This would take someone a long time. I think splitting the site up into subwebs will cure many of these problems too. <Yes. Jason, on delving into the matter on the phone with DP, found that their FP extensions were corrupted. On re-loading them, the present problem/s have been solved/resolved. Bob F> Mike

I second that Michael voiced the opinion the other day, that having more usernames would be a help... and I'd like to second that. I think we should each have our own user names for using/editing FrontPage. Why, you ask... quite simple, actually: You may or may not have noticed a message in the past, "So and so page has already been saved by Bob, on " and so on... ever wonder who Bob was? Would it not be easier to see a message that said "So and so page was modified by JasonC so suck it up" and you'd have an epiphany. You could call me and say, "Hey, dammit, I need to work on that page." <Mmm, make that Mmmmm> Well - there's other impetus. I have a sneaking suspicion that for the most part, our server and FrontPage can easily deal with multiple users, and their work - reason being that often, they are working on opposite ends of the earth. A couple other practices, like the "DO_NOT_TOUCH_THIS_FILE.htm" can go a long way to not only reminding one to do something about it, but for others to avoid it. Of course, all common sense stuff, but sometimes it pays just to document/agree to it... :-D - Yay! Questions, Comments? Cheers, J -- <Make it so... if the "permissions" bit can be made to actually work. Bob F>


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