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FAQs about Marine Angelfish Compatibility 2

Related Articles: Marine Angels

Related FAQs: Angel Compatibility 1, Angelfish IDBehavior, Marine Angelfishes In General, Marine Angelfish SelectionSystems, Health, Feeding, Disease

Some angel species as a whole are pretty easygoing, like Apolemichthys xanthopunctatus.

Angelfishes for  Marine Aquariums
Diversity, Selection & Care
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by Robert (Bob) Fenner

Re: Travis Carter’s Mega Angel Tank     1/2/20
Bob - I am getting mix views on this on the forums and i typically take what i read on the forums with a grain of salt. I would much rather defer to the caliber of experience such as yours. Could you answer this for me...
Do you think a combo of Annularis, French, Queen and Imperator Angles can coexist long term in a 650 gallon? 96x36x45.
<Oh, yes I do think these three Pomacanthids can, would likely get along indefinitely in a system of this size, shape. Bob Fenner>
Re: Travis Carter’s Mega Angel Tank     1/2/20

Thanks Bob for the information and vote of confidence!
<Ahh, glad to render it! BobF>

Queen Angel bullying, TWA period     11/5/18
Good morning Bob (and team),
Yesterday I brought a 3 inch French Angel out of quarantine, where it had been for 3 weeks, and put it in my main display (200 gallon FOWLR).
Immediately my 5 inch Queen Angel began bullying it, and the French has a decent amount of fin damage this morning as a result.
<To be expected, anticipated. The size difference, size (small for the wild)... better to have had either the species or size reversed in order of introduction>
I knew I had to put a stop to it immediately, so I removed the Queen Angel (boy was that fun to take out most of the rock in a 200 gallon aquarium)
<I'll bet! Hopefully two nets, make that four, with another/friend to help>
and drip acclimated it back to my 29 gallon QT system. Both the Queen and the French seem to be doing OK at this point.
My question is, how long do you think I should keep the Queen Angel in QT?
I want the French to recover from its injuries, eat well, and establish some territory in the new tank before putting the Queen back in. I'm just not sure how long that typically takes. 3-4 weeks perhaps?
<Yes to about this time frame>
Given the size constraints I know the Queen can't stay in my QT tank for a long time.
<Do weekly or more often water changes, additions in the 29 w/ water from the 200... this will help introduce (chemically) the two Angels. Cheers, Bob Fenner>
Re: Queen Angel bullying     11/6/18

Thanks Bob. Will do as you suggest.
The French is swimming much more freely and ate well this morning, now that its tormentor is in a different system. But he definitely got beaten up during the 16 hours they were both in the same aquarium. Hopefully no secondary infections, etc as a result.
Ideally both angels will get along well upon reintroduction. In the meantime, I'll use water from the main display to do the weekly QT water changes, as you recommended.
Appreciate your help.
<Glad to help. DO float the Queen... in a very large plastic colander in the 200 for a few hours ahead of release. BobF>

Clove and Green Star Polyp's with Angels       10/9/17
Hello Bob -
I hope that life is treating you very well! I continue to expand the possibilities within my reef systems. Currently, I am thinking about trying Clove or Green Star Polyp's with my reef set-up's (220 gallon or 265 gallon) where the 265 gallon (excluding sump volume) contains a 7 inch Grey Angel and a 4 inch bi-color angel and the 220 gallon (excluding sump volume) contains a 5 inch Queen Angel.
I've had these Angelfish for close to 2 years in these live rock reefs with soft corals, i.e.; Sinularia (finger leather), mushrooms (mostly hairy), toadstool leather, and devils hand leather with no issues to the coral livestock. Besides occasional treats of frozen food, ..etc., their primary diet is NLS Thera A. They've been very healthy and have grown nicely in a few years.
What odds do you give me if I were to introduce Clove and/or Star Polyp's into these systems as far as living without being eaten up by the angels?
Thank you,
<It's quite possible that the Angels will nip to eat the GSPs... and I'll admit, I really don't like Star Polyps, as they are way too invasive. IF you decide to try them I STRONGLY encourage you to isolate them on a rock bommie of their own. Please do write back w/ your further notions and experience/observations. Bob Fenner>
Re: re: Clove and Green Star Polyp's with Angels      10/10/17
Will do! Thank you sir.
<Certainly welcome John. Oh; do peruse the site/WWM for much more re "polyps". Bob Fenner>

Question. Emperor Angel beh., hlth.     11/22/14
I've been in the reef hobby for quite a while and have a 210 gallon tank with 75 gallon sump active for over 2.5 years. Plenty of LR, Live
sand, and clean up crew. I have a Skimz SM203, Calcium reactor, 35 gallon refugium (In sump), and great lighting (three 250 watt MH, T8's, and LED's).
As for my tenants, I have flame angel (2 inch), Blue tang (2.5 inch), yellow tang (4.5 inch), 3 Chromis (2.5 inch), pygmy angel (2.5 inch),
Bi-color angel (3 inch), six line wrasse (2.5 inch), 2 clowns (3 inch), neon Dottyback (3 inch), Blue angelfish (6 inch), and Emperor angelfish (5.5 inch).
Now that you have some background on what I have, my question is this:
I've had My Blue and Emperor angelfish over 2 years with no issue's.
Blue angelfish transitioned to full adulthood quite quickly however my emperor took much longer.
<Perhaps delayed/influenced by the Blue>

In fact my emperor is almost 75-80% changed from what I can tell however my question is that I'm seeing some white
blotches on the emperor however his breathing is fine, eating habits are the same (Eats like a horse), eyes seem fine (Can't tell if eyes
are cloudy or just dark from transition to adulthood?) Some days there are more spots and other days there are not a lot? Both angelfish
(Including all others) get along fine. Emperor is the king, Blue angel is the queen, and all others play along. I can't tell if this is an
issue or if its part of the emperor's transition to adulthood.
<Likely a bit of both; more the former that is of concern>
I did recently remove half of my LR and cleaned down and then did the same the following week along with a 40% water change. I usually do much smaller water changes weekly. I don't see any other issue's with any other fish besides emperor. Do you know if this is common for emperor's to get these blotchy spots during transition or do you think he may be stressing? Look forward to your response.
<Is not a part of transition... but as you suggest, stress-related. As long as the fish is otherwise eating, healthy, I would not be concerned to the point of moving one of the large angels. Bob Fenner>
Rick Geaslen
Re: Question     11/22/14

Thank you so much for your fast response. You definitely made me feel much more at ease about situation. I've always been the type of reefer that allows nature to take its course then to medicate.
<A bit of wisdom here>
That being said my emperor always looks much better during day and hardly shows any blotches. This issue has only been going on a few weeks hence exactly the time frame when I did complete clean out.
<Could be related as well>

I'm almost thinking I might have taken a lot of beneficial food from LR per clean down which I'm assuming emperor was probably snacking on. The only reason I cleaned down LR was because (I believe) after so many years
there are going to be a lot of spots you'll never be able to get to per the amount of decay build up. I never really have a lot of
nitrates (20ppm at most) however that's only when I have to go almost a month with no water change but I always catch up eventually. One other thing I forgot to mention was that when I did the complete clean down of LR I also added some phosphate/carbon pads to sump to help ease any nitrate spike when removing LR.
<These can also have adverse effects. You can search, read my cautionary statements re these media on WWM>
I've never used carbon with this tank until then so I'm almost thinking maybe that had something to do with it. I have since removed all pads.
<Ah, good>
Thanks again for your response and happy holidays to you and your family.
Rick Geaslen
<Thank you; and you and yours. BobF>

Stocking Question      4/28/14
I would like your opinion on a stocking question I have. Right now in my 150 gl. aquarium (FOWLR) I have a Pakistan Butterfly (3.5"), African Flameback Pygmy angel (2") and an adult Blue-Ring Angel (4.5"). I was curious if I could safely add a 4-5" adult Blue Face Angel to this mix?
<Mmm; not really... and this is not the adult size... more like a foot to a foot and a half>
My conscious is telling me "no" due to territoriality issues between the adult angels.
<Yes; this system is too small for both large Pacific Pomacanthids>

There is no fighting now and all fish are eating like pigs (both high quality flake and frozen foods and any nice algae they pick off of the live rock or back tank glass). There are alot <No such word> of live rock caves in my tank also.
I started in this hobby when I was 12 and am now 47 (my oldest fish was a 15 year old Blue-Ring that died in December of 2013 of old age; hence the purchase of the new one listed above) and my only concern is for the welfare of the animals in my tank now or any future livestock purchases, that's why I am contacting the professionals (you) on this matter.
Tank info: I do not use copper or any other kinds of meds in my tank.
Filtration is via wet/dry filter and a Reef Octopus protein skimmer, pH is a solid 8.2-8.3 and three biggies (ammonia, nitrite and nitrate) are all "zero". Normal light cycle is 7-10 hours a day.
Please advise and thanks! Gary
<I'd keep looking around for smaller species. Bob Fenner>

Angels Anemones and select Softies, incomp.    3/19/13
Hi Bob and Crew,
Thanks for your responses so far. I love this site! I have a new one for you now :)
To recap from my previous queries, I have a 500g tank with a lot of small fish a few tangs and a Bicolor and Flame angel (total of 33 fish). I also have a LTA hosting 2 Ocellaris and a GSP hosting one Frenatus.
What I am considering doing - moving all my softies to the fuge and sticking more with a FOWLR setup with anemones (I maintain good reef level parameters, so hopefully the anemones will be ok).
<Should be in a system this size/volume; as long as they stay put, don't touch/encounter each other>
 With my tank size I figure I can keep more fish varieties in harmony than smaller tanks. Also getting corals in the part of the world I live in is quite a challenge. So the only corals I think I'll retain in the DT are the GSP and mushroom colonies. So far neither of my dwarf angels bother the LTA. The flame bothers nothing and the Bicolor nips the GSP mat only when it is closed i.e. dawn.
So what i will be left with is a FOWLR with LTA, GSP and soon to be added BTAs. I am considering adding either an Imperator/Majestic/Regal angel to the mix. Do these nip on BTAs?
<Yes; all large angelfish species are known anemone eaters. Clowns may protect their hosts though>
 My dwarfs haven't touched my LTA thus far.
Which one or more of these 3 would you think is most compatible in this system?
<Mmm, the Imperator is my choice of the three>
Sorry if I bore you with more details than necessary, just want to make sure I cover everything
<Welcome. BobF>
Re: Angels Anemones and select Softies    3/19/13

Thanks Bob, quick follow-up question, would a Maroon clown hosting the BTA be a good pre-emptive measure for an Emperor. Or are all clowns equally defensive/not about their hosts
<See WWM re Premnas... I'd skip. B>

Rose Anemone, sys.     1/6/12
Hi there, I have a 180 Fowlr, slowly switching to reef tank. I have Emperor Angel, BlueLine Angel, Harlequin tusk, Naso tang, pair of tomato clowns, Moorish idol, porcupine puffer (I am thinking of getting rid of him), and some Chromis. Yes I do know they will need a new larger home in the next few years. I have been adding a few leather corals, mushrooms, and hammer corals. so far everything has been good. I keep them fed very well and seem to have no interest in the corals. I really want a rose anemone. I do know I take a risk at my fish getting ate by the anemone, but I think they are smart enough to stay away.
<Maybe if the Clowns occupy the Anemone it won't be consumed by the angels>

 My problem is my closed loop for the return. They are two foot tall screens, about 3" around. I am not sure what to cover them with, without damaging the pump. I have two dolphin external pumps. They are 1/3h.p. and pump a lot water through them. Maybe to <too> much? I think just from the flow of my main system I do not need the closed loop going, because there is plenty. I would love your advise for this. Thanks!
<You'll have to just take the risk of the Entacmaea drifting up to the pumps, the Pomacanthids nibbling it, should you choose to try this Anemone.
here. Bob Fenner>
Re: Rose Anemone; sys.     1/7/13

Bob, I got the Anemone. so far so good I think. I have had my closed loop off for a few days now before I bought the anemone to observe my fish and make sure nobody would be stressing. He is deflated at the moment only been in for 15minutes or so. My question is as soon as I put it where I think it would be happy, my tomato clowns were already trying to host it. Is this alright? This my first one and I am nervous. Thank you!
<Should be. B>
Re: Rose Anemone     1/8/13

Bob, My Anemone has not expanded to his regular size yet, Should I be worried, or give it a week?
<... wait, read (all) on WWM re Entacmaea>
Temp 78, Ph 8.25, Nitrate 10, Nitrite 0, Ammo 0. My calcium is high in the 520 range. Is that my problem?
<Could well be... read re this too, as well as Mg conc., bal.... B>
 Thank you for your time!
Re: Rose Anemone, Angel incomp.     1/10/13

Bob, I actually had to time to set in front of my tank and stair at it for few hours last night. Even my kids left me alone. (amazing!) My anemone problem is my BlueLine angel it nips at it,
<Not atypical... many Pomacanthids eat anemones in the wild>

 Not much, but enough to where its not happy. Getting a bio cube for my new friend. I love Fowlr not willing to trade it in yet for a reef. Thank you for your time. and happy diving!
<Thanks! BobF>

eel bitten by angelfish       12/6/12
Hello crew,
<Hi Amber.>
Yesterday I received a Skeletor moray eel (Echidna xanthospilos). My Bicolor angelfish (Centropyge bicolor) basically destroyed it. She bit the flesh off of the eel.
<What an evil angel.>
He is alive but barely. I was wondering if there was anything I could do to save it?
<Depends on how severe the wounds are. I've seen morays with incredibly large, but healed wounds such as missing jaw parts, completely lost tail.>
Any kind of dip or medication to help nurse him back to health, or is he a lost cause.  They are both now in holding tanks until I figure out what to do. Please help me.
<The most important thing is to keep the water quality high. If you notice signs of bacterial infections of the wounds, you may have to use an antibiotic such as Maracyn II (will treat many gram negative infections).>
<Good luck to you and the eel. Marco>

Angelfish Nipping Anemone    4/7/12
Hi there,
I have had a Cream Angel (Apolemichthys xanthurus) for well over a year now. The specimen was 2" long when obtained and is now a nice 4" and has developed a wonderful personality and eats from my hand. Contrary to what I have read the specimen I have is very peaceful and doesn't bother anyone at all. About five months ago I introduced a sea anemone (H. sebae), which has grown very well in the last few months and only a few days ago I was observing how the colour in the centre had become very intense and the outer tentacles which had been bleached were slowly regaining their colour.
Both the anemone and the Cream Angel have co-existed peacefully until three days ago.
I came home to find the anemone closed. After observation I found that the angelfish is nipping at it.

I am rather attached to the angelfish and do not want to get rid of it and I love anemones. I have taken out my autofeeder in an attempt to keep the specimen well fed through out the day.
Is there anything else I can do short from removing one of the two?
<You might try covering the anemone (with something with perforations, that's chemically inert... for a few days... Or add a Clownfish or two that will protect the anemone from the Angel>
 The anemone opens up in the night when the angel is asleep and is open for a large part of the morning also but suddenly I find it closed and the angel in the vicinity.
<Otherwise they'll have to be separated. Bob Fenner>
Re: Angelfish Nipping Anemone    4/7/12

Hi Bob,
Thanks for the great idea. Tomorrow I shall cover it with a perforated plastic container. I hope it stops. Otherwise I am considering setting up a 20 - 25g cube as a dedicated Anemone Tank which will be plumbed into the sump of the 55g display. Sad.
<Ahh... or the poss. of adding a Clownfish or two... for protection>
Went snorkeling today and saw some lovely fish. Fantastic.
<Wish I was out there w/ you>
Anyway thanks... And warm regards.
<And you, BobF>

Angel Compatibility   4/15/11
Hi there! My eyes are burning from reading the 2 pages of info concerning this very question :)
<Only two pages!?>
I have a 210g FOWLR tank with 150 lbs of live rock and the following inhabitants... False Personifer Angel 7", Flagfin Angel 5", Coral Beauty Angel 3", Flagtail Blanquillo 6",
<Not easily kept; you're to be congratulated>

Purple Tang 3", Dog Face Puffer, 5", and Maroon Clown 3". SG-1.019, pH-8.3, Temp-78 degrees, all controlled by a Reefkeeper lite for temp/pH stability.
The tank has been up and running for 1-1/2 yrs. with great success thanks to Bob's great book (my bible)... I've always loved the Blue Line and Annularis Angels. Being that these are of different genus from my current Angels, I'd like to try one of these in my current setup. Which do you recommend (if any) and what size should I be looking for to avoid any substantial aggression with my current stocklist? This would be the last fish introduced by the way...
Thanks so much!
-Jay Keel
<Mmm, I wouldn't add either, or actually any other Pomacanthid to your mix here. What you list will be more than this system/volume can handle safely in time, w/ growth of what you have already, and Angels don't generally mix when introduced at larger sizes. I'd be looking about for siting that 300 gallon system... Cheers, Bob Fenner>
Re: Angel Compatibility   4/15/11
Thanks Bob! Great advise... I meant to say "Angel compatibility 1 and 2" not 2 printed pages ;)
Following your advise <advice> has helped me immensely in getting this far, so I will not stop now... It's probably best to just not "f***" with it.
<I do hope/trust this is "fool">
Thanks again!
Best Regards,
<And you Jay. B>
Jay Keel

Saltwater Angels: More than two in a 108 gallon? 9/6/2010
<Hi Nikki>
I've searched the Internet for hours and can't find the answer to this question,
<Fire away.>
Can I put a Singapore angel in with a Lamarck angel and a African Flameback angel?
<Personally, I would not.>

The Lamarck and African have been together for at least 6 months with no problems at all.
I have several other fish as well. Tank size is 108 gallons.
<Angels can be aggressive, particularly with other angelfish. Traditional wisdom states that you should only have one angel in a tank. That said, you can get away with one big angel and one dwarf angel if the tank is large enough. In any case, 108 gallons is marginal for all but dwarf
Thanks for any input, Nikki

Angel comparability, please need answer by Sunday. 8/28/10
Dear WWM Crew,
My tank is 300 gallons, 42" circular tank with a 125 refuge and a 100 sump.
<Interesting shape>
Right now I have a pair of 7" Crosshatch triggers in the tank, they have been in the tank for 3 weeks. Decided to put them in 1st since I read that they are quite shy at 1st. Yes, they were QTed for 3 weeks.
They look great and quite healthy.
<Ah, good>
I now have a pair of Blueline angelfish (3.5" and 4.5")
<Let's call them two, not a pair at this size>

ready to go in the tank next week. I already bought an 6" Emperor angelfish but I can cancel the order by Sunday night if you think it's too risky to add him with the Bluelines.
<I do>

Will QT him for 4 weeks and also adding a pair of 2.5-3.5" Flame angelfish to be QTed in a 30 gallon tank at the same time as the Emperor. Planning to add them together into the display tank.
<I'd leave out the imperator>
After that I plan to add a 4-6" Regal tang and a 4-5" Yellow tang. They will go in my 55gallon QT together.
<Should be fine>
That will be it for that 300 tank.... maybe a Banana wrasse as a last fish.
<Mmm, I'd add some smaller, fast-moving fishes for interest here myself>
What do you think about my stocking list? My biggest worry is the Emperor and the Blueline pair, will they be compatible?
<Not likely, no>
They are from different genus but have the same yellow tail, same lines kind of and even shape kind of shape. I don't know if I want to chance it since I love my Blueline pair and the Blueline male is somewhat aggressive towards the female in the 55QT tank. He doesn't constantly chases her but he always like " get out of my way" kind of thing and when he is eating, he chases her out of his way big time.
<This might prove to be problematical in time>
Thank you for your time,
You guys are great!!
<Thanks, BobF>

Asfur... lg. Pomacanthid comp. period  8/4/10
Hi guys.
<And gals Thai>
I recently bought 2 fish, Asfur and Passer. They are housed in a 375 gallon with a large yellow tang, medium purple tang, coral beauty and a small niger trigger.
Naturally the tang's harassed the crap out of the 2 angels which are both 4-5inches. Day 2 and they all tolerate each other now. Now it's Day 4, the passer is eating everything.
<Ah, good>
The asfur hasn't ate <eaten> since he arrived. He is quite shy when I approach the tank but if I'm far away is out and about quite a lot. Should I be worried about the asfur not eating.
<Not quite yet, no>
I feed Nori, Spectrum 2mm and Ocean Nutrition Angel Formula. I've heard there quite hardy and will eat eventually. I also tried adding Seachem Garlic to the Nori but haven't seen it touch it.
<I'd switch the dry food to Spectrum brand... much more palatable>
I got have about 400 pounds of live rock. It doesn't really pick at it at all.
<As far as you've observed. Does it appear thin?>
Also thinking of adding a French, Queen and Blue Ring into the mix once the asfur starts being normal and moving the niger into another tank
What do you guys think?
<I would not add these other Angel species... this mixing of large Pomacanthids is a "slippery slide" of juggled psychological challenges that few win at for long. Bob Fenner>
Thai Pham

Angel Compatibility 6/27/10
<Hi Chris>
What would be the minimum sized tank recommended to house a Regal Angel, Majestic Angel,
<More commonly called the Blue Girdled Angelfish (Pomacanthus Navarchus)>
and Scribbled Angel together?
<I would not house these fish together in anything under 300 gallons. They get quite large with age and will require plenty of room to swim. They are semi-aggressive so plenty of caves/retreats should be provided in the display for quick getaways should the need arise.>
Within the next year or two I would like to set up a FOWLR tank and these are by far my 3 favorite fish. I know Regals can be tough,
<None are the easiest of large angelfish to keep, and the Scribbled Angel commands high prices, generally well over 200 bucks for a medium size fish. I would strongly recommend choosing something other than the Regal.
They are extremely difficult to acclimate and most will die within a month from starvation. Read here.
but I kept one for 6+ years in a 75 gallon tank back when I was a teenager some 20 years ago. Probably just luck, but I'm researching them extensively now. Also, if these 3 were to go in one tank, should they all be added at the same time and at roughly the same size?
<I would add at the same time if possible, and would not purchase specimens under 3" in length. Some good reading for you here.
<You're welcome. James (Salty Dog)>
Re Angel Compatibility 6/27/10 - 7/22/10

Thanks for the reply.
<You're welcome.>
I may just opt for the Majestic and Scribbled in a 200 gallon system. A guy at a LFS got me somewhat excited about the Regals .
He said he has very good success with the Regals he's brought in and sold in the past couple of years. He will only order ones from the Red Sea, and says that he can acclimate them to eating a particular pellet from New Life? that
supposedly gets them the proper nutrients for long term survival in captivity.
<Yes, a good nutritional food, use it myself.>
Like you, he recommended a tank in the 250-300 gallon range to support these 3 fish. He said he would quarantine the Regal for me for 3-4 weeks and get it eating the pellets, then I could add the other two fish after it has acclimated to my tank.
<Sounds like a great deal if you do not have to pay for it until you take it home.>
It's my understanding that the Scribbled and Majestic aren't as aggressive as most of the other large angels and shouldn't cause too much stress to the Regal, provided the tank is large enough and there is a lot of live rock with hiding places.
<Agreed, depending on your tank size.>
In your experience, what kind of success rate do Red Sea Regals have in terms of acclimation and long term survival?
<My understanding is that they generally fair a little better than the Indo-Pacific species, but will ask Bob for his
input here. James (Salty Dog)><<Compared w/ Pacific individuals much higher. Read here re: http://wetwebmedia.com/RegalASelF.htm
and the linked files above. B>>

Regarding Blueface angelfish - suddenly stop eating... reading  6/24/10
Hi Bob
I newly bought a 4" blue face angel,
<This species, the other two species in the subgenus Euxiphipops are not easily kept...>
from the day I introduce him in my talk he started eating well and was doing well. After 2 weeks time I bought a cream Angel fish about 5.5" size and introduce him in the same tank
<... not a good idea unless this tank is huge. 4-5 plus hundred gallons>

together with my blue face. The cream angel started to fight with my blue face and also bite him, Now my problem is after introducing the cream angel my blue face stopped eating and always hiding inside a rock cave. I feared and return back the cream angel to the store I bought him. Still after 3 days he is still hiding behind the rock and not eating. Please help. how to make him eat again and make him act normal again.
Thank you
<Uhh, you should remove one or the other, perhaps both Pomacanthids... Read here re: http://wetwebmedia.com/FishInd3.htm
Bob Fenner>

angels... Comp. of... Aq. Svc. Biz.    1/1/10
what do you think of adding a Multibarred angel to a 75 gallon reef type system with two percula clowns, leopard wrasse, and golden angel
<S/b fine if the Pomacanthids are different sizes>
all these fish are doing very well and have been in the tank for a long time , live rock, refugium, and protein skimmer . I really like these fish would like to try. Also can you give me any tips on starting a business , been in the hobby for 22 years , just retire from city of providence after 30 years would like to promote the fish service business, thanks Ron from R.I.
<Please read here: http://wetwebmedia.com/AqBizSubWebIndex/Biz%20Index/Biz%20index.htm
Particularly the articles, FAQs files in the first tray. A wonderful field... I "spent" nineteen years in. Bob Fenner>

Angel compatibility -- 11/27/09
Hello, thanks for all you do. I read here for hours, researching fish choices and learning so much from the fantastic articles written here. I am looking to add 2 Angels to my 300 Gallon FOWLR. I have a tang & 2 Banner butterflies in there now.
I have not seen this specific question just yet in your compatibility section. In your experience, do you think an Annularis can be housed with a Goldflake without the aggression or territorial traits often seen with large angels?
<In this size system, no worries>
I consider myself an intermediate fishkeeper.
Thanks again guys, Jeff. I saw that Bob supported someone's choice of a Blueline and a Goldflake together in a similar-sized tank.
<The Annularis is even more easygoing and hardier. Cheers! Bob Fenner>

Angel compatibility  10/27/09
Greetings, thank you in advance for your advice. I have a 300 gallon FOWLR, 50 gallon 'fuge, 2 Tuxedo urchins, snails, crabs, and just 1 fish, a 10" Naso. It has been up and running for 2 years now, and the Naso has been in there this entire time. I have placed ball and tree sponges in a corner several months ago in anticipation of adding an angel or two. My first choice is a Gold Flake, and second choice is a Blue Line angel (not the Annularis).
<The Chaetodontoplus... both gorgeous fishes>
I'd like to QT them together for 4 weeks, then add them to the main display together. Can these 2 co-exist in a 300?
The Goldflake is a definite, so if the Blue Line cannot co-exist with it, can you kindly suggest a blue/green moderately peaceful Angel instead?
<Mmm... likely another of the same genus, or a Genicanthus sp.... or one of the many "regular size" Centropyges. I rate all for general hardiness on WWM and books I've authored>
I like the adult size of the Blue Line, so I don't want a Mac or Asfur, they get too big for my comfort level.
I am looking for a blue/green fish of any species that will bring that missing contrast color to the tank of grey (Naso) and yellow/gold (Goldflake). I cannot add a Queen, I do not want that Holacanthus aggression.
<I understand these preferences>
I cannot add my ultimate wish, a Blue Hippo Tang; the Ich issue is too much. I'd love an Atlantic Blue Tang, but have learned from your site that they are aggressive towards other tangs.
I don't want my Naso bossed around. I have looked and looked for a blue/green color fish that is somewhat peaceful, and only grows to 10"-12" max. The Blue Line angel fits that description. So that is my question, can the Goldflake and Blue Line co-exist in my 300?
Thanks, Jeff.
<Indeed they can. Other "blue choices" I'd ask that you consider include Chaetodon fremblii, Caesio teres, some of the Anthiines... Bob Fenner>
Re: Angel compatibility  10/29/09

Fantastic suggestions Bob, thank you very much. I have seen your write up on the Caesio teres, but for some reason interpreted it as a wrasse.
<Mmm, the Fusiliers used to be "lumped" in with the Snappers/Lutjanids...
And/but this one species I'm very happy to report I've seen much more and more in shops the last two years... The group has some real stunners... are abundant in the wild, and appear to be not too difficult to collect, hold and ship>
Great to see that it is exactly the type of specimen I've been searching for, and have actually found one & will order it.
I'd never seen the Chaetodon fremblii before your suggestion here, and it's one I will also add.
<Is a great animal... really a "relic species" of Chaetodontid... endemic to Hawaii... Again, a fantastic aquarium choice, and real conversation starter>
Those two along with the Naso and Goldflake will round out the 300 nicely.
I don't want to overcrowd the system. Input appreciated.
Keep up the great job over there!
<Am trying Jeff. Cheers! BobF>

Angelfish tank, stkg. mostly... comp. f' as well   9/26/09
Hey there Crew. I have a quick and hopefully easy question for you.
There is an article on your website found here...
It deals with keeping a large volume of fish in a tank. I've read the disclaimers through the article and know it isn't exactly the ideal setup although it was working for the guy who has the tank. I'm curious if you have any more information on the status of the tank? The article is a couple years old, it looks like to me... do you know if things worked out long term for him?
<I do not have any further update, info. re status of this one set up, but can tell you that this sort of seemingly over-crowded, largely angel-system is not unique, has been used several times... mainly in the orient, but also a standard in some east coast U.S. service companies... And can indeed be "done". IF ones mechanicals (filtration et al.) and maintenance are up to par, packing such animals together appears to greatly depress territorial expression... Bob Fenner>

Angel compatibility  8/29/2009
Hi everyone. Fantastic site, what a lot of work to keep this thing together!
<A few hours a day, some fantastic friends...>
It is appreciated.
I have been researching the possible combinations of Angels in my 8 ft. long 300 gallon FOWLER.
All I have now is a 4" Naso Tang and 2 Schooling Banners. I also have mushroom rocks and 3 live paddle sponges.
<These may be consumed by the angels>
I know that 2 Pomacanthus Angels together, even added at the same time, could be asking for trouble compatibility-wise. Salty Dog commented he's seen them literally fight to the death before. So 2 of those together are out, at least, for my personal comfort level.
My question today is if it would be safe to add a Majestic and a Gold flake together at the same time.
<Likely so>
By safe, I am asking if either would be more territorial toward the other regarding its claimed space in the tank?
<I give you very good odds they'll ignore each other>
They will spend a month in a 40 gallon QT together, then go in the main display together. Each 3"-5" to start. Two different genuses.
Can that mix work without the fighting?
Thanks for helping so many of us.
<Welcome. BobF>

Butterfly And Angel That Will Not Eat Coral? 7/21/09
Hello Gang,
<Hi Becky>
Thank you all for the information you provide.
<You're welcome.>
I have a 155 gallon FOWLR tank that I'd like to add "something" to. I have a few angels and butterflies. Could you recommend a coral or polyp that is noxious enough they'll leave it alone?
<Yes, they would likely leave Fire Coral alone, but then you would have to be extremely careful while cleaning the tank, being better to wear long rubber gloves.
I'm sure Bob can attest to their sting.
The other issue in keeping these corals is lighting, they require strong light to survive.>
These guys pick at everything and I really enjoy them, BUT...I want a little more to look at. This tank is over five years old, however, the fish are not. I recently purchased a few small pieces of live rock from the LFS to reseed my scape. It had a couple mushrooms hanging' on to it. The fish sucked 'em off in no time. To these guys, everything is fair game, right?
-Flame Angel
-Bi-color Angel
-Lamarck Angel
<The Lamarck should be safe with corals unless you've got a renegade.>
-Vagabond Butterfly
-Saddleback Butterfly
-Royal Gramma
-Tomato Clowns (2)
<Pygmy Angelfish can go either way depending on their eating personalities.
I've got a Coral Beauty and a False Lemon Peel in my tank and they haven't touched a thing in two years. The butterflies are definitely coral eaters and should not be trusted with corals.>
My rockwork is set-up like a divider between front and back. This seems to work well and gives more swimming room. All the fish are great eaters. The one animal I do not want is an anemone. I really like LPS like torch and frogspawn, etc. I know these are all out of the question. Oh, as far as lighting, I has PCs on the tank now, but I do own two 175 MHs. I hope you have a few good suggestions.
<Other than Fire Coral, which would probably be hard to find, I have no suggestions as far as corals go. Bob or another crew member may chime in here.
<<No... if you're responding, answer completely. If a bb is the/an answer, refer folks to ours. RMF>>
Have you considered any of the very colorful cleaner shrimp and starfish?>
Please let them be something other than plants!
Thanks again,
<You're welcome. James (Salty Dog)>

Reef safe marine fish... Angels and Henis   7/2/09
Good day,
<And you>
I have a half moon angel and a vermiculated angel (both approximately 5 inches in size) and wish to stock my aquarium with Xenia, pincushion corals and feather dusters. I read that these fish are "reef safe, with caution" on other websites.

What does "with caution" mean in terms of reef safe?
<Is a largely subjective evaluation of the likelihood that an animal, species is likely to consume, have troubles with other livestock>
Will this be a good idea to stock my aquarium with the corals mentioned, or will it just be an expensive meal for these fish?
<Too likely a possibility of the latter... IF this system is "too" small (a few hundred gallons), otherwise doesn't house a good deal of "live rock"... that these Angels could/would otherwise peruse.>
The other question I have is whether the Banner fish are reef safe.
<Heniochus spp. are toward that end of the spectrum generally>
I know that the Banner fish is related to butterflies and that butterflies are not reef safe,
<Mmm, too broad a statement... there are some notable species that are almost exclusively zooplanktivorous... Please... search, read on WWM ahead of writing us>
but could not find out whether the Banner fish would eat these corals.
<Ahh! Perhaps the information is insufficiently specific. Your missal will aid in making it more so>
Your site has been a great help to me in the past and I personally think that you are the best.
Willie Deysel
<And thou, Bob Fenner>

Angel Compatibility 10/27/08 Can you give me some advice. <Will try.> I have a 240L reef system which inhabitants are, very large Malu with resident common Clown, 1 Brown Sailfin Tang, <Will need a larger tank> 2 x Blue Gold Damsels, 1 Foxface, <May also need a larger tank depending on the individual, you are at the "bare minimum" for keeping this fish long term.> 1 Bi-colour Angel, 1 large boxer Shrimp and some soft corals. I have seen a beautiful Coral Beauty Angel and am unsure whether it would cause conflict in the tank especially with the Bi-colour - I don't want to stress any of the fish. <I would not attempt to combine 2 Centropyge Angels in this tank, just not enough room for both.> There is live rock in the system with lots of crevices and hiding places. All tank inhabitants are feed live feeder shrimp at least once a week to hone their natural hunting instincts as well as give the freshest food and so far I have not had any conflict amongst any of the inhabitants. <Be aware that too much protein can be bad for many marine fish, encourage you to consider using a quality pellet food along with Nori sheets, especially for the tangs and Foxface which need a good amount of vegetable matter in their diet.> <Chris>
Re: Angel Compatibility 10/27/08
Thanks for the advice. Coral beauty will have to wait until 2nd tank established. <Very good, think that will be best.> With reference the tang and foxface. I do have some Caulerpa growing in the tank and put in vegetation every other day is this enough for them, and limit the feed shrimp to around four or five depending on size just once a week. Would you consider this too much? <As long as the vegetable matter is of marine origin (Nori) this should be fine. Do the fish eat the Caulerpa? For most of your fish the meaty food is best, just make sure the tang and rabbit get their greens as well.> <Chris>

Trigger/Angel-"safe" inverts  10/7/08 Hi, crew, I always come across questions such as "which triggers are reef-safe?" or "which angels are reef-safe?". <Neither really; while some species may work successfully in some tanks, both families evolved to eat invertebrates, so at least some of the things in your tank are at risk of becoming food.> I'll have an 8 foot x 2.5 x 2.5 foot tank, and am really interested in a Clown Trigger and an Emperor Angel. If I can't have both in this 375g tank, then at least the Imperator. <Clown Triggers are comparatively aggressive fish, and I don't really recommend any triggerfish outside one or two genera (Sufflamen, Melichthys) being kept in community settings. Does of course depend on the specimen. Emperor Angels can of course be kept in multi-species tanks, with the proviso that (as ever with Pomacanthidae) that they're "top dog".> So, my question is, what inverts/corals are most probably trigger or angel-safe? <Angels specifically go for sponges, so that's the main group to avoid; that isn't to say they won't have a go at other types of invertebrate, but provided they are well fed, and the tank is sufficiently large, any damage tends to be minimal. With triggers, shrimps, molluscs, annelids and echinoderms are all easy meat. Some triggers ignore cnidarians (corals, anemones, etc.) but many don't, and the Clown Trigger is one that will damage, likely consume, such animals given the chance.> The FOWLR does not appeal very much to me, and if I can't have inverts, then it will be a pure reef tank with reef-safe fishes only. <Would HIGHLY recommend that approach, perhaps building up experience of this aspect of the hobby generally before thinking about either a trigger or the Emperor angelfish. Do remember the Emperor angelfish has a poor survival record, in part because less experienced hobbyists are attracted to this animal without fully comprehending the demands it places on its keeper. There are many easier to maintain angels out there.> However, if I can have an Imperator as my "showcase" animal, and still have a reef, then that would be great. <Suspect it would be worth doing a bit more reading before anything else...> Thanks for any recommendations! <Cheers, Neale.>

Fish Tank Question, Marine Stocking 9/22/08 Hey WWM Crew, <Hello> I have a question regarding the following: I have a 46 gallon bow front aquarium that I am setting up for a saltwater tank. <I have had one of these for years.> I'm all good with that but a question has come across my mind for fish for in this aquarium. When placing fish into a 46 gallon bowfront is these fish that I would like to have fine together in this size tank. I would like to have, a pair of True Percula Clownfish, <Ok> a Raccoon Butterfly, <Gets too big.> a Coral Beauty Angelfish, <Needs a bit larger tank.> and a Koran Angelfish. <Also too big.> I believe that I have given enough area for the fish to be able to separate and enough spots to hide out, so I believe this number will be an okay amount. <I would disagree here, for comparison in mine I have a pair of clowns and a Gramma, plus a fairly large serpent star and I consider it fairly well stocked. The tank is smaller than you think, especially when rock, sand, and equipment is added in.> But if you don't think so please let me know. <See above.> And my second question that might already be answered in the first one is Will both a Koran angelfish and a Coral Beauty angelfish be able to go together, I know sometimes that 2 angels cant go together, but if I add them at same/similar times (please let me know if that is even necessary if fish are fine together) but will those to angels be fine together? <Not in this sized aquarium.> Thank you so much for your help Ryan <Welcome>

Angelfish in large aquarium... comp.    8/9/08 Hey "Crew". Thanks for all your hard work! <Grant> I've got a 210 gallon tank I'm currently slowly stocking, it has about 150 pounds of live rock. Pair of Semilarvatus B/F, Checkerboard wrasse and a Purple tang are the current inhabitants. I want to add a Naso tang, and then hopefully TWO angels. The angels in question are the Emperor and the Queen angel. <Mmmm> I know mixing angels isn't necessarily recommended, but with the current stocking plan and plenty of swimming space, do you think these two angels would be able to co-exist? <Ultimately... not happily likely> The Emperor is going to be about 3", still a juvenile and then Queen would be a 5-6 inch adult. For what it's worth, all inhabitants are quarantined and both angels would be added at the same time to the display tank, although quarantined in separate tanks. Grant <Oddly enough, were this tank a bit larger... hundreds more gallons, you could "crowd" more large Pomacanthids in with little concern... but... too likely to be territorial issues here in a 210. Bob Fenner>

Re: Angelfish in large aquarium, comp.    8/11/08 Alright, well thanks for the quick reply at least. I always hate getting "bad" news but it's good news for the fish so I cant fault that. <"No fight, no blame"> It's too bad that angelfish are like that, <... really? Am quizzical re either your intent, and/or frame of reference here... "Too bad" in what way? That this is not to your liking? That the behavior (incompatibility in small volumes) doesn't seem to have species survival value? What is, is... This "not getting along" IS of consequence, likely positive, in the wild... providing for... who knows (?), dispersal, preventing loss of genome from predation, reduction in resource over-utilization (for foods let's say), resource partitioning overall...> I consider them the most beautiful fish out of all the most commonly kept in home aquaria, I'd really like to be able to stick a couple in there peacefully. <Mmm, well... a risk, but... perhaps one worth trying... If you will, I "give you about 50-50 odds" that these two would "get along well-enough" for years to co-exist here... with pretty high levels of confidence (my feelings re my guessing are good)... Is this sufficient for your sensibility?> I always see videos of people on YouTube with multiple large angels in their tanks. The latest one I saw was a 210 just like mine, with 4 different large angel species. I think they were a French, Emperor, Blueface and Queen angels... They showed no aggression towards each other and this was during feeding time. I keep seeing other people's "success" and want to replicate it, but I guess what the guy is probably not showing in his video is all the times the angels fight among themselves or just the general stress it adds to the aquarium? <Yes and yes... though, again, there are means of reducing aggression... through layout (making "blocks" in the viewing across the tank (bommies, rock stacks let's say), using pelleted foods like Spectrum...> Now I'm not going to do the following, but I'm just curious. Let's say I did decide to keep a couple large angels in a 210 gallon tank. Do you think it would be better off with like 4 of them to spread the aggression around? Or would it still be better to keep it down to two? I'm thinking that is maybe why the videos I've seen lately come across as making the fish look peaceful, there is always 3+ angels in the tank, never just 2. <Actually... four would likely be a bit more risky... I'd shift my odds to 40-60...> Thanks again for all you and your crew do Bob, I've learned so much from your website it is honestly hard to believe. We've recently started up a saltwater fish club in my town of about 300,000 people <Ahh!> and I have to say I'm one of the most educated among the club. I'd much rather have the actual hands on knowledge as compared to book knowledge, but since I cant possibly have as much experience as the entire crew put together, I'll settle for book knowledge ;) But anyways, it makes me feel good to be able to pass on all the knowledge I've gained from your site and actually help people here to give their aquatic life a good existence. Grant <Indeed a pleasure. Thank you for further sharing. BobF>

Re: Angelfish in large aquarium   8/11/08 Yes, as far as "too bad" goes, it is only in my head. I'm sure it is working quite well as far as nature intended. I'd like to have 2 or 3 large angels in my tank and it seems to be something not worth the risk. <Mmmm... up to you> I'll cogitate further about it I suppose, I already lose plenty of sleep at night wondering about fish, this little bit more wont hurt :) I do feed Spectrum pellets like you mentioned. Tell me, is it something about the pellet itself that helps keep down aggression? <I too have wondered re... perhaps some weighting of them not being "animal appearing" and aspects of the formulation? Sort of like vegetarian humans?> Because I don't feed the actual pellet shape, I have a mix of scallops/shrimp/fish flesh and sometimes crab that I blend with the angel food made by the company who makes Formula 1 and 2 (high in sponge stuff) <Ah, yes... was I who goosed friend Chris Turk into making/incorporating when he owned/ran Ocean Nutrition> and then I mix Spectrum pellets into there as well. I buy the food fresh and make a new batch once a week, so everything stays good and healthy, hopefully not too broken down like multiple freezing and thawing would do. Anyway, the point being nothing is in pellet shape anymore. I don't blend it down to a fine puree, but more like 1/4 inch chunks of meat with pellet hunks stuck to them. The pellets help soak up some of the water content of the Formula sponge food, so it all stays bound together pretty well and I don't get a lot of waste blowing around the aquarium. And every once in a while I blend in some Formula 2 as well just so the fish get their veggies whether they like to eat from the Nori clip I always have in the tank or not. I figure it's like getting a child to eat vegetables, you mix it into something tasty and they eat it without knowing. Kind of like carrot cake ;) <Great idea, concept, practice> I might get some of the Tonga branching rock and make some tall tree stump looking things throughout the tank if I decide to go the two angel route, hopefully that helps break up their line of sight. <Yes... or Sanjay Joshi recently (last May at IMAC) gave a pitch (am wondering if this is on the Net somewhere) re his techniques for drilling, making "stacks" of rocky "towers"... very useful for wide/r tanks... which are... much more of use than "show" conformations> Right now I have 180 pounds of live rock which is stacked about 120 pounds on the right side, sloping off to just the sand bed before it even gets to the middle of the tank. Then on the left side, the other 60 pounds of live rock is stacked into a much smaller mound of rock. This leaves a lot of open swimming room on the left side of the tank and I have more vigorous flow on that side, the fish really seem to like going over to that side and swimming actively, then they will go back over to the larger stack of rock with a little less flow and sedately swim around. Then it's back to the carnival ride side of the tank again for a workout. Thanks again! Grant <Another excellent practice. I do hope/trust that there is room "around" these stacks. Cheers, BobF>

Re: Angelfish in large aquarium   8/12/08 Do you think a small school of Anthias would do anything to disrupt aggression between two angels? <Ah, yes. Might well do so> If I went with the Emperor and Queen angels and had a school of say 10 Anthias (maybe 2 males 8 females) along with my other fish (2 Semilarvatus B/F, purple tang, checkerboard wrasse, Desjardini tang ((I know, two Zebrasoma tangs in the same tank can be bad, but they seem to never fight that I see, and I watch the tank a LOT)) <The larger the volume, the less likely such negative interaction> would this help to reduce aggression having some sort of small dither fish? <Yes> If you don't think it would, then I wont bother. I like Anthias, but from past experience and reading about other's experiences, it seems they always dwindle down to just a couple or even just one left alive, so I'd rather not go that route if it wont make an appreciable difference in aggression. <"Dwindling" as individuals and numbers is often the rule, but Anthiines in captivity can be kept healthy with attention> The other thing I was thinking was maybe getting some of the common Heniochus B/F, the H. acuminatus instead of Anthias, maybe like 3 of those as opposed to 10 or so Anthias. <Mmm, these too could maybe work... I like the Anthias or larger species of schooling Damsels myself> Yes, I have about 4-6 inches on all sides of the bigger rock pile, then quite a bit more on the small rock pile. <Ah, good> I was actually thinking about thinning down my bigger rock pile, I might try the hole drilling and sticking PVC pipe through it to make a cool stack idea out. I did some Googling on Sanjay Joshi and found some interesting stuff, but nothing on rock towers or stacks. <Ahh!> I think I'll be able to use a small masonry hole bit, say 1" <Wow! Maybe half this diameter...> or so, and then fit PVC up through the holes I cut in the rock. Nothing too tall so the PVC doesn't have to work real hard to hold it up, maybe like 3 pieces of rock at the most, with the actual rockwork being balanced on each other so the PVC isn't actually the strength behind it, <Mmm, could be joined with Water Plug (tm) or such...> just something to keep it from falling from a freak wave (hey, they have proved rogue waves in the ocean, it might happen in fish tanks) or a over vigorous fish. Grant <Do please send along pix of your efforts. Cheers, BobF>

Angels and Corals (It's a Feedin' Time!) - 06/26/08 Hello, <<Howdy James>> I have a 900 gallon system with fish, live rock. <<Very nice…and I think I recall that we've conspired before re this system>> I have tried various corals in the main tank to give the rocks some colour and interest. <<Mmm…and likely not too successful re, depending on your piscine choices>> Unfortunately, whatever I try my Queen Angel eats. <<And this surprises you? [grin]>> I then move the coral to another tank in the system where they are doing fine. She even started eating a carpet anemone <<Again…should be no surprise>> In the main tank I have one leather coral which she leaves for some reason as she munched on the others. <<Perhaps this one is more noxious than the others>> I also have six or seven different mushroom colonies. She ate all the red ones and left the rest. <<Differences in palatability>> So, my question is, is there any types of coral you think I could try that she will leave? I won't take her out as my fish always come first. <<Few choices I think… You might try some very noxious Gorgonians as these are often left alone…some of the Zooxanthellate species from the genus Pterogorgia maybe. And, you may find that Pachyclavularia (P. purpurea, P. violacea), also known as Green Star Polyps, taste bad enough not to be bothered either. But still…no certainties>> Thank you, James Barclay <<Happy to assist. Eric Russell>>

Mixing Angelfish with Anemones, Reef Compatibility, 4/9/08 <Hello Brad, Brenda here!> I first off want to say think you for answering my last question it was very appreciated and helpful. <You're welcome!> I have a Medium Imperator Angel and medium Koran Angel that can't seem to keep their mouths off my anemones. <I'm not surprised. These fish are not reef safe. They need to be separated.> The Imperator was first to start nipping at my green carpet once my clown starting going in it so I finally gave it to a buddy of mine hoping it will live. Then when the clown started going into my rose anemone he started nipping at it. After watching the Imperator the Koran started following suit. Why are they doing it and why are they not being stung? <It is their nature. It may eventually be stung and eaten by the anemone.> Before the clown started going into any of my anemones neither even got close to them now that they see the clown inside the tentacles they want to start snacking on it? Any reasoning behind this? <More information found here: http://www.wetwebmedia.com/marine/fishes/angels/angelcompafaq.htm > Thanks for all the help. Brad <You're welcome! Brenda>

Adding Another Angel? (Stocking Considerations)   2/19/08 Hello all, <Hi there! Scott F. with you today.> Your thoughts on the following would be appreciated: I have a 180 FOWLR with a single angel at this time, a 3" Rock Beauty, which is well established for about 2 years. I would like to add a 4" subadult Annularis; other tankmates are two 9" Tangs, 3" butterflies and a half dozen damsels. I had a 12'' French in the system which has since been moved, and there were no issues, but I am concerned that the RB and annularis might be too close in size. Thoughts? Thanks. <Man, I'm sorry to be the "buzz kill" here. In my opinion, you're really taking a risk adding ANY other "large" Angelfishes to this sized aquarium. Stress and aggression may result from the addition of another one into the mix. I personally would not condone adding another full-sized Angel into any tank smaller than several hundred gallons, and at least 8 feet in length, if for no other reason than their need for lots of physical space. In fact, you've got a pretty full bioload in this system, so I'd be inclined to stop adding ANY additional fishes into the system. Two 9" Tangs is really pushing it as it is! IF you were going to add another fish, and IF an Angelfish was a "must have", at least consider a Centropyge species, as they are generally much smaller than the full sized versions. In the end, though, I'd evaluate where you intend to go with this system before entertaining any other stocking decisions. As you know, tradeoffs are always part of the game. Good luck! Regards, Scott F.>

Angel Feuds! Combining Marine Angels 2/4/08 'Lo Crew! <Hello> I was (mis?)informed by my LFS that I could keep a Cherub Angel in a tank (29g BioCube) that already has a Coral Beauty. <Yes, and really a 29 is too small for either fish alone.> The Coral Beauty is nearly full grown, and the Cherub is about mid size. <The whole tank is the CB's territory.> I got the Cherub yesterday (along with a Sally Lightfoot crab) and acclimated it smoothly. <Should start QTing your new additions.> However, when I added it to the tank, the coral beauty became aggressive toward it. I immediately turned all the lights off in the tank and the aggression died down. <For the moment, I bet it will return.> This morning, before turning the lights on, I rearranged the live rock (around 45 pounds in the tank with 10 pounds or so in the middle chamber of the filter. This has stopped some of the aggression, but anytime the Cherub goes on the left side of the tank, he is chased away. I turned all the lights out once again, and am planning to leave them off for another day. <A stand-off as you have now is probably the best that can be expected.> I haven't noticed any actual biting, simply chasing around a lot. <Establishing dominance.> Is there anything else I can do to help avoid the injury of either of these fish? <Both would appreciate a bigger tank, but lights off and tank rearrangement is about all you can do, now the fish have to determine if they will tolerate each other or not.> Thanks! <Welcome> <Chris>

Re: Angel Feuds! Combining Marine Angels 2/4/08 Thanks much Chris! <Welcome> My LFS quarantines fish for 3 weeks before they are up for sale, so I have never had to do that (and have never had a problem with their fish before) <Very nice, but I am guessing they are not able to it as thoroughly as necessary, although I commend them for their efforts.> The aggression has died down today, as the Coral beauty established the left side of the tank as his. <Good> He only chases the cherub away when he comes over to his side. Thanks for the help! <Welcome> <Chris>

Feather Duster, marine angel compatibility -01/05/08 Dear WWM Crew, I looked on your web site and searched feather duster looking for specific compatibility with an Imperator Angelfish and Coral Beauty, didn't find what I was looking for. I have in my 125 g tank with 180lbs LR. Will they eat the feather duster I want to purchase? <It might. It might not. It will likely depend somewhat on the relative sizes of the worm and fish... and the personal inclinations of the fishes. Personally, I wouldn't risk it. The longer the two share a tank, the more likely it is that one of these fish will get curious/hungry enough to nibble at the feather duster.> Thanks Steve <Best, Sara M.>

Angelfish Compatibility  6/9/07 Hello Crew, <Good evening, crew member Leslie at your service> I have a chance to purchase a 4" Majestic angel $40 (healthy, eating, store going out of business). My setup includes a 120g SPS reef with lots of swimming room/caves and a 60g refugium below, full of rock/Chaeto and a DSB. The fish currently in the tank are a 2" Bursa trigger, 10" Snowflake eel, and the fish in question...a 5" Flagfin/Three Spot angel. The Flagfin has been in the tank 6 months (eating all foods offered), fat and happy. < A very nice fish with a somewhat sketchy survival record...Glad yours is doing so well!> Can the two angels co-exist? <It is usually risky and rarely recommended to mix 2 such similar fish. I wouldn't even though passing up a great deal is a rough one for me.> Can't seem to find these two angels side by side in a compatibility chart (ha!). <If you ever find that chart please do let me know. > My concern stems from their similar body shapes and I'm assuming/ready for the initial posturing. Just not sure if it will go on indefinitely (ending in a demise). <Certainly a possibility.> Thanks as always for an opinion. <You're most welcome> I owe all/any of my success to you folks. Jeff <Thanks so much for the kind words! Leslie>

Mixing Dwarf Angel with Larger Angels.  2/28/07 Hi Crew, <Hi James, Mich here.> Great website, you guys rock. <Thanks!> My question revolves around a pygmy angel that I have in 125gallon fish and live rock tank. I wanted to add another angel (Koran, French or Emperor) down the road. I know you can't mix angels of the same family, but can I get away with this or does Mr. Pygmy have to go back to LFS. <Probably not the best idea to mix these two.> Other fish include small hippo, medium yellow tang, 2 purple fire goby's and a royal Gramma. Thanks, James <Welcome!  -Mich>

Comments on Angel vs. Angel vs. Surgeon…. Queen A, Sohal T comp.   2/20/07 Dear Crew, <Hi Chad….AJ with you this evening.> I thought I'd send in a comment on some behavior I observed when adding a 7" Queen Angel to my tank. <Okay.> My main concern when adding the Queen was my 4" Passer Angel. < A very valid concern.> I'd been looking for a large Queen Angel for a long time and pounced when I saw it. I'd seen other smaller Queens but passed because I was sure my Passer would not tolerate the addition of a similar sized Angel. <Adult Angel's usually don't tolerate the presence of other animals/fish let alone another Angel.> Well, suffice it to say, I had my fingers crossed on one hand and a net ready in the other (I have a refugium which I could've moved the Queen to if it got ugly). I was relieved to see the Passer ignore the Queen almost completely, he showed some irritation but there were no fights. <I would compare his irritation to that of a little brother, who is just biding his time until he grows up and can "thump" big brother…..he doesn't act now because it wouldn't be smart.> I'm positive the Queen's size was THE deciding factor in this. <Likely a very important factor in establishing the "alpha-role."> But to my dismay, my 4" Sohal Tang was utterly furious! <Unfortunately this is predictable behavior for the Surgeon.> He was actively chasing down and attacking the Queen. Which actually made him quite easy to catch, I simply put a net between the two and he swam right in. I tried separating them for 24 hours, didn't work, same exact reaction. <The Sohal is notoriously territorial….if they weren't…I would have one, hehe, they are beautiful fish.> So I moved the Sohal to another tank for two weeks. The other tank is only 55 gallons, he was acting strange, looked like he felt confined, so I thought I'd give it another try. > this I surmise the display is quite large.> I added the Sohal back to my main tank today and everything went smoothly. The Passer, Queen, and Sohal are all existing peacefully in my tank, at least for now. <Operative phrase being "for now" do keep an eye out.> I thought this would benefit some readers out there. <Yes, thank you for sharing.> It just goes to show that 1. nothing is guaranteed in this hobby <Agreed.> 2. heed the advice given by our friends at WWM, If you're going to take risks in compatibility, be prepared to separate if something unforeseen happens. Have an escape plan! I was glad I did. <Thanks…and planning ahead is good…impulses can really hurt you, as far as livestock goes, in this hobby.> And 3. Sohals, and fish in general can be mean! <Very True.> I just thought it was so strange that my Sohal had completely ignored EVERY other addition, and yet took on a fish twice its size. <For some reason (likely the size a factor) the Sohal felt that this addition was a threat to his dominance.> I was just glad I was prepared. If I'd thrown the Queen in and turned off the lights, I would've woken up to a very bad situation. Thanks <Thank you.> Chad <AJ.> P.S. I appreciate the work you guys/girls do for the hobby. Your web site is addictive! <Thanks again and good luck.>

Mixing Big Angels - 02/11/2007 Hi, Crew <Hi Mark, AJ with you tonight.> Thanks again for such a great site. <Welcome.> I have a slight dilemma about angelfish compatibility. <Okay.> I have a 125 gallon aquarium with a couple of black and white percula clowns (juvenile) and a 2 inch blue angel. I also have a 4 inch passer angel in a 75 gallon aquarium. Sadly, I feel that I will have to choose between them eventually as the 75 gallon <Understood.> cannot house the passer much longer and I am reluctant to mix such similar species. <I would be as well.> Is compatibility between these two angel fish totally out of the question <In this size tank the latter, even in large, public tanks 1000 gals+ it is rare that two angels of such common lineage and size can co-exist peacefully.> because of the similarity or do you feel it is possible to mix these two angel fish? <No, see above.> Also, If I can not co-habituate these two species would a small French Angel get along with one or the other of them better? <No I don't believe so, 125 gallons is in my opinion not enough for these animals at their potential size...let alone two together...not to mention aggression.> (for the 125 gallon eventually) Thanks again! <Anytime.> Best regards, Mark <To you as well AJ.>

Mixing Angels of Different Genera   12/22/06 Good afternoon, <Hi there! Scott F. at your service!> Kudos for your great site. I have checked your site and others extensively and can find lots of information about combining Centropyge species, but this is about putting in a Genicanthus (not sure if it would be melanospilos, bellus or watanabei) with a Centropyge argi. It is a well-established (6 years) 150 gallon reef tank. The Pygmy Angel is a feisty little guy but the players in the tank are probably the Purple Tang (I have had him 11 years!) and I have a couple Pakistani butterfly that are piggy eaters, but not at all aggressive.  I have Anthias, Cardinals, an Ornate Wrasse, Chromis, etc. The corals are mostly softies, because of the butterflies. It is a peaceful tank so I don't want a conflict. The purple tang handles newcomers well--swimming around rapidly but no outright aggression. Your advice would be much appreciated. Hope you are safe and warm--we are snowed in here!- Jeanne Boulder, CO <Well, Jeanne- I can speak from first hand experience in combining a Centropyge argi with a Genicanthus Angel. I had a G. bellus female with an argi in a 225, and there was absolutely no aggression whatsoever. Part of the reason for this success might have been that I had lots of broken up rock piles for territory, and the fact that the Bellus was considerably larger than the argi. Also, these fishes really inhabit different niches in the tank and the wild (the argi tends to stick towards the rubble/substrate areas, while the Genicanthus tend to be midwater swimmers), so there is not all that much interaction between the two. In captivity, the stresses of confinement could create problems, however. And, of course, just because it worked for me, that's no guarantee that you'll have similar results. You're describing a pretty full 150, from a fish standpoint, and I'd be a bit cautious about adding a Genicanthus at this stage. All in all, I'd enjoy your system as it is. With a larger tank and suitable aquascape/inhabitants, I would not hesitate to try this combination...Hope this helps! Regards, Scott F.>

Stocking/Compatibility, Lg. SW    12/18/06 Hi Crew, I'm saving up for a 265G tank and have developed my stocking 'wish' list. I wrote a few weeks back, but my wife has reviewed and thus the list has changed. <Heeee!> It will be a FOWLR with some ornamental shrimps. My concern lies with the compatibility of the angels below (2 pairs of the same genus) and whether the overall tank size for this list is appropriate. Are there any other concerns that you see with this? Scribbled Angel Chaetodontoplus duboulayi Blue Spotted Angelfish Chaetodontoplus caeruleopunctatus Flame Angel Centropyge loriculus Golden Pygmy Angel Centropyge aurantius Powder Blue Tang Acanthurus leucosternon Fridmani Pseudochromis  (2)Pseudochromis fridmani Yellow Tang Zebrasoma flavescens Golden Butterfly Chaetodon semilarvatus False Percula Clownfish (2)Amphiprion ocellaris Helfrichi Firefish (2)Nemateleotris helfrichi Your thoughts/inputs are greatly appreciated! Thanks, Ian <In a tank this size... starting with "mid-size" or smaller individuals, you should be okay here. Once these fishes are grown a bit, established... it may prove difficult to introduce much in the way of others in their niches. Bob Fenner>

Angelfish in a reef (semi) tank  12/5/06 hi crew! <PM> Many hours reading you faq's.  Great service. big fan of Fen & Calfo as well as Tullock.   <Reduced to part of a surname...> I have a 180g w/55g sump/refugium.  I was wondering if I could have some corals, etc. as well as some sort of big/showy angel such as a Goldflake or chrysurus. <Mmm, yes... is possible> I know I would have to be very selective w/inhabitants/if this is even feasible by any stretch of the imagination! <Have seen both these Pomacanthids in this sort of size, shape system with cnidarians...> If you have any suggestions, or if you think I am crazy, please give your opinion.  Have 190-200 lb rock and a good bit of hair algae after cycling. Coralline is starting to show up pretty good. Ca 450,Kh 10, No2 0, Phos 0 N03 <5. ASM 300 skimmer. Also a Ca reactor which is turned off at this time. Oh! PH 8.2-8.3.  Am in the process of starving the hair w little lights & H2O changes.  Tank running for 2.5 months. I really respect you guys & your Advice would have helped a lot if I knew of you before I set up my FO with an Odonus niger.  Just turned him over to the rescue shelter yesterday. It was a hard decision, but he was hammering my Harlequin Tuskfish.  He looks better today. Maybe he will make it. Roger Tisdale "THE" peacemaker     <Mmm, please read here:   http://wetwebmedia.com/reeflvst1.htm and the linked files above and in-text where you lead yourself... enjoy the process. Bob Fenner>

Hong Kong saltwater FOWLR's   11/17/06 Hi Bob,    <Chaidan>   As I am planning on my stocking list, I got a chance to see a very overstocked aquarium from Hong Kong where as many as 10 large angelfish was crammed inside a 150 gallon aquarium which I thought was cruel and not acceptable under any circumstances yet I hear it is the norm over there. <Is not an uncommon practice...>   Have you heard of this method of fish keeping in Asia? <Yes, have seen there, and some places in W. Europe and N. America... mainly amongst folks of Chinese background... and one large service company on the U.S. eastern seaboard... can be done> Are the people employing these methods having any long term success with them? <At least some of them, yes> what are you long term mental and physical damage from angelfish being crammed in an aquarium for an extended period of time and having to suffer from the locker-room effect? <Well-worded... and I don't know exactly. It seems that such an arrangement might well lead to psychological problems... but the examples I've witnessed first hand show little signs of such... and often quite vigorous, colorful specimens...> I know there is not a guideline of inch per gallon but should even 2 angels be stocked inside a 150 gallon much less 10 or am I overreacting?    <Sort of the situation with semi-compatible mixes of African Great Lakes Cichlids... either under crowded, akin to natural presence, or purposely over-crowded... With commensurate filtration, circulation, aeration... and feeding...>   Any information would be appreciated.      Thank you,      Chaidan <Mmm... I wrote a review of a book expounding, exemplifying this "technique": http://wetwebmedia.com/capmaraqbkrev.htm By Wayne Shang... You might read it... I am not a fan of this crowding... as it too often can/does lead to catastrophic loss, but it can be done. Bob Fenner>

Clams and Angels 11/15/2006 Hello Crew, <<Hello>> I have a 36 gallon saltwater tank with a flame and a cherub angel and surprisingly they have not harmed one another. I also have a fire shrimp, a yellow tailed damsel, a royal Gramma, and various corals and one clam. <<You do know that your tank is overstocked, right?>> When I first purchased the 2 clams, they used to be open all the time, such beautiful specimens! Then the angels were starting to pick at them, mostly the flame angel. <<Not surprising, but unfortunate.>> The larger of the clams was more brave and used to open somewhat despite the picking from the angels. But the smaller one closed up more and more and I was beginning to worry because the clams need light to survive. I tries moving the smaller one closer to light and in different locations but the pecking continued until yesterday when I looked in my tank the clam was a darker more dull blue inside and the shrimp was eating through it's flesh! <<Sorry to hear that. Next time, removal before death is advisable.>> I took him out and threw him away.... the poor thing but is there anything I can do to stop the pecking from my angels? <<Not really, but seeing as you need a larger tank anyway, setting up another tank and introducing the angels after the clam may work, but usually once a pecker, always a pecker!>> After the other one died, I moved the larger one up to the surface of the water and now he is open almost all the time and almost all the way because the angels rarely go up so high! The one concern from me is that I don't get to see the clams beautiful colors anymore because I cannot view the inside of him. How can I prevent my angels from picking on him when he is placed on the substrate in order for me to view his colors? <<Depending on the species, it may not belong on the substrate.>> It seems they pick on him more when he is lower because they pass by him much more often. <<Another issue a larger tank may solve.>> Any advice would help! Thank you! <<Glad to help. Lisa>>

FOWLR stocking question  - 09/14/06 Hi WWM crew,    <Chaidan>   I currently have a 200 gallon Oceanic with a lone dogface puffer.  In 3 weeks I will be replacing the 200 with a 600 gallon Tenecor (96Lx48Wx30H) <Neat!> that I have been planning for a few years now.  What is your opinion on my stocking list:      First in tank:  3 Addis butterflies.  Second in tank: 6" adult red sea imperator, 4" asfur and 4" chrysurus angel. <Mmm... if started at this size, likely all these angels will be fine>   Third in tank:  Australian harlequin tusk.  4th in tank:  3" blue tang, 5 inch blonde Naso tang (red sea), 5th in tank: pair of crosshatch triggers.      What is your opinion from a compatibility and stocking level standpoint? Thank you for your time and opinion and keep up the good work.      Chaidan <This will be a spectacular display... I would quarantine the incoming livestock in order. Bob Fenner>

Mixing Angels 8/28/06 I was curious what the compatibility would be of a Coral Beauty and a Sumireyakko venustus? I ask because I have been told that Angelfishes will usually be compatible if they are of different genera. However, I also saw on WWM (thanks!) that the Sumireyakko venustus used to be classified as a pygmy angel - the same as the Coral Beauty. Tank specs: 55 gal., 60+ lbs LR, Prizm Skimmer, 48" Satellite Dual lighting on timers, small sump, Lawnmower Blenny, Coral Beauty, 2 Percula Clowns. Also, if the Sumireyakko venustus is a possibility, would it be detrimental to soft corals/anemones/etc? Thanks, guys! WWM is second to none! Alex B. <I would not mix angels in this sized tank, the risk for aggression is too high.  The Sumireyakko venustus is most likely reef safe given a proper diet, however they will be more prone to sample if there is a nutritional deficiency.> <Chris>

Blue face angel, comp.   8/18/06 hi, Thank you very much for the wonderful support you have been giving me! <Welcome> I have a query, I am aware that the Blue face angel (Pomacanthus xanthometopon) is not reef safe, but i would like to know whether there are any corals (soft or hard) that can be housed with the blue face angel? <If the system is large enough... hundreds of gallons, can likely keep this Angel with most any/everything> If yes, will you kindly let me know which ones are those... Thank you very much, regards, Anup <Size of the system is the most important factor here. This Pomacanthid is found in intimate association with the reef, cnidarians... Bob Fenner>

Bi-polar angels   8/18/06 Hello crew,   I have an interesting story to share with you, and a question to boot! I have a 90 gallon tank which is home to a 3 inch one eyed eibli angel who is an extremely territorial fish. <Some Centropyge individuals can be so...> He even spikes my finger when i feed them. I was keen to place my 3 inch blue ring angel in the same tank <Not a big enough volume...> but after reading several FAQs i thought it would be a bad idea. <Agreed> Anyway i decided to give them a try knowing that i would probably have to remove one or the other shortly after. On the first night they were together old one eye was like an angel straight from hell-relentlessly attacking the poor blue ring all around the tank. That night i tried unsuccessfully to remove one of them, so i turned out all the lights and covered the tank with towels to completely black it out until i had time to have another attempt at catching one. The idea was that if they couldn't see anything, they couldn't kill each other (and I'm certain that if this behaviour had gone on, the blue ring would not have lasted 2 days). So when i removed the towels and turned the lights back on the next day,  the 2 angels were reasonably peaceful toward each other! <Interesting> As a few days have passed now, they have become even more peaceful. They have come within 2cm of each other and hardly noticed! It's amazing; and a nice feeling to be so lucky that these 2 angels can live together. Even feeding time is without incident. So my question is: is this unusual behaviour? why would these fish suddenly become friendly? Thanks! <Perhaps they became "friends through common adversity". Don't know... but a "hint", "bit of advice" I'll pass on to others to try with similar situations. Bob Fenner>
Re: Bi-polar angels   8/19/06
Hello crew, I have an interesting story to share with you, and a question to boot! I have a 90 gallon tank which is home to a 3 inch one eyed eibli angel who is an extremely territorial fish. He even spikes my finger when i feed them. I was keen to place my 3 inch blue ring angel in the same tank but after reading several FAQs i thought it would be a bad idea. Anyway i decided to give them a try knowing that i would probably have to remove one or the other shortly after. On the first night they were together old one eye was like an angel straight from hell-relentlessly attacking the poor blue ring all around the tank. That night i tried unsuccessfully to remove one of them, so i turned out all the lights and covered the tank with towels to completely black it out until i had time to have another attempt at catching one. The idea was that if they couldn't see anything, they couldn't kill each other (and I'm certain that if this behaviour had gone on, the blue ring would not have lasted 2 days). So when i removed the towels and turned the lights back on the next day, the 2 angels were reasonably peaceful toward each other! As a few days have passed now, they have become even more peaceful. They have come within 2cm of each other and hardly noticed! It's amazing; and a nice feeling to be so lucky that these 2 angels can live together. Even feeding time is without incident. So my question is: is this unusual behaviour? why would these fish suddenly become friendly? Thanks!      The fact that the eibli only has one eye doesn't seem to affect him, he looks very healthy and he doesn't swim on an angle, or bump into things.      I just put a new piece of live rock in the tank today and both angels are picking it over, completely oblivious to each other's presence. I can't believe my luck, and i hope it lasts. <Amazing... me too. Bob Fenner>

Angel Compatibility With Corals   8/3/06 Hi there, WWW Crew, Greetings from Portugal <Hello Joao.> I know this is the "million dollar/Euro question" and I've been reading all the info I could find (namely in your FAQs). So, I'm not hoping to get a final answer, but the best information available prior to decide (and take my chances). That's why I'm resorting to you. I've had FO tanks (since 1990) and reef tanks over the years. The thing is... I can't choose between having corals and a large angel and decided it's time to have a really mixed tank, knowing that's a much bigger challenge. I'll naturally have to avoid meaty LPS, clams and some softies, so the tank will be a SPS dominated (my favorite corals, anyway). Furthermore, I would also like to have (not a must, though; still thinking about the cons) an Entacmaea quadricolor anemone (BTA ?), which already has an isolated "island" for it. <Would not mix anemones with corals and/or fish other than clowns.  Larger angels have a tendency to nip the tips off anemones.> Bearing all this in mind, I recently (4 months ago) upgraded my 3 year 55G aquarium to an in-wall 210G with a 55G sump, 25G upper refugium (with 7inch DSB, LR and Chaetomorpha algae) and 25G quarantine tank. The system is running well with weekly (close to) 10% water changes, approx. 150 kg.s "old" Liverock, my stock from the old tank (4 fishes -  including a C. loriculus - and some corals), a substantial cleaning crew and, I believe, fairly good equipment (4x150w HQI + 3x80w T5 lamps; Tunze TS24 kit with multicontroller + Red dragon 6.5m3 as a return pump, for circulation; Schuran Jetskim 200 skimmer; Deltec KM 500 kalkstirrer; Schuran Jetstream1 calcium reactor - yet to be connected; IKS Aquastar, etc). <Sounds nice.> The large angel - only one -  will be added in approximately one year time to give the system some time to mature and the corals to grow. I'll try to find a 3-4 inch healthy specimen and give it a good quarantine. The thing is...which one. What I know: No angel is really reef safe; It's a hit and miss, depending a lot on the individual; Sometimes the transition from juvenile to adult causes disaster with a big change on feeding habits; What I would like to have: P. Imperator / E. Navarchus or Xanthometopon / Pygoplites diacanthus / Arusetta Asfur. I'm also considering one Chaetodontoplus (if the other are a no-no). I'm not thinking about Genicanthus, although admitting it would probably be the safest choice. (sorry for using the Latin names, but I'm not too familiar with the English ones, and I don't want to mislead you). What I would like to know: is it possible to rank these angels in a scale of less to more problematic, considering the issues mentioned above and my system? <No, angels will develop different personalities/eating habits.  No two will necessarily be the same.> Should I be asked, I would, probably say:  1st - Genicanthus spp; 2nd Chaetodontoplus spp (?), but 3rd....and 4th and....5th.... (the ones I want....) <I cannot recommend which angel would be a good risk with corals due to personality differences.  The choice will be yours my friend.  The pygmy angels would be the only ones I'd feel relatively comfortable with. Good luck.> Your help would be very appreciated. <You're welcome.  James (Salty Dog)> Best regards, Jo? Monteiro

Angel Compatibility    7/1/06 I'm about to click and order a juvenile French angel and a Flame Angel. Saltwater fish (btw, any opinion on this vendor?) <As for the vendor, I suggest you place this question in our forum under "Local/Internet Fish Stores".  Go here.   http://wetwebfotos.com/talk/> has a rather stern warning about placing more than one angel in a tank.  I have read extensively about the topic on your site, and it seems to me that combining a Pomacanthus and a Centropyge will not present a problem. They are a completely different genus, shape, size, and color.  They even come from different oceans so they have likely never seen one another. I ask you, the real experts, will these two fish get along? <Believe the warning is based on two or more Pomacanthus angels.  The Flame angel and French should get along fine providing living space and hideouts aren't going to be an issue.  James (Salty Dog)>

Mixing Genicanthus Angels  6/21/06 Hi Guys, <Hello.> I recently had a pair of Watanabei Angels die due to a power outage of 12+ hours. <Ooh, very sorry to hear that...especially with Genicanthus being my favorite genus of fish.> Since then I have added a female Genicanthus melanospilos.  My question is how compatible are these angels? <With what?. Other species each other?...Need to be a little more specific> Can I still get either a single female Watanabei or another pair or is it likely that they will fight with my current Melanospilos. <I would not mix species of Genicanthus, especially in home aquaria, which I am guessing is 180 gallons or less?> When I got my Watanabei pair at the LFS, they were in the tank with the female Melanospilos (same one I bought) and didn't seam to fight, but I understand that the LFS not an ideal environment. <Bingo.> If it matters, I only like to get them small, my Melanospilos is only 3" (head - tail). <Choose one species or the other, not both.> Thanks, <Good luck.> Craig <Adam J.>

Info's about big Mac and Asfur   6/12/06 Dear WetWebMedia, first of all i <I> want to thank you guys for the help giving me to solve the problem of my imperator. Now everything is solved! I have a Maculosus in my tank (around 600 ltr) <Will need more room> and i was wondering if it could be possible to purchase an Asfur too. <I would not mix these congeners in this sized system> I know it might seems weird, but i really love the little Arusetta! <These are gorgeous, intelligent marine Angels... but not compatible in any but huge systems> I've heard that the fishes from Red Sea area are downright friendly, surely less problematical than other specimens. <More so of the same species than elsewhere in their range in general... but not all by far> My question is: Can i purchase the Arusetta and store it together with the Mac without a massacre or a fish-carnage? Thank you very much! Best greetings Luke <Again, I would not do this. These animals don't associate in the wild... in fact, they are rarely seen "paired" with their own species. Bob Fenner>

Losing angelfish only  - 06/07/06 Hi Bob and Crew, <O & R>                         Thanks again for all the help you and the crew provide. Much appreciated! I've e-mailed before and you guys and gals were very helpful. I always try to find the answers to my problems first, before I take up your time. This time I've had a little trouble so thought I would drop a line. My problem has been with keeping queen and French angels. Both juvenile and adults. I have a 135g <Not large enough...> with powder blue tang, 2 perculas, black cap, bi color blenny, and mandarin goby. Have 150lbs live rock, Dual Bak Pak skimmer, and emperor 400. Aquarium is about 1 year running. Water parameters have always been excellent. All at 0. PH 8.2. Have 30g quarantine tank in place and use it wisely. I have not had any problems with my fish except for 2 queen angels and 2 French angels. Which I've read are very hardy and disease resistant. <Generally so> None of them have died right away, seems to be a couple of months down the road. No signs of disease other than minor lymphocytes here and there. <This is telling... a large stress component> One day they start breathing heavy or labored and then die a day or so later. I've read in your book about size range for each and all of them would be what you would call acceptable range. 4-5 inches. <In this small sized system, better to start with even smaller specimens... down to 2-3 overall inches> I do have corals in my tank as well and don't know if these are possibilities. <Are as well... material coming off/from these could be malaffecting these fishes> I recently pulled my bubble tip and Sebae anemones out thinking my angels may have come into contact with them and died from that. <A possibility> Is that a possibility that even a larger angel can die from an anemone sting. <Yes> Corals in my tank currently are torch coral (which my clowns hosted after losing their bubble tip), flowerpot, branching hammer, and frogspawn. Could any of these been the cause or am I missing something. <Not able to tell from here/this> All my other fish have not shown any signs of problems to date. After the fourth or fifth queen and French I'm quite frustrated. I feed them Nori seaweed red and green, formula one, angel food containing sponge (which they didn't take to very well) and Mysis. A good variety I thought. Any advice would be much welcomed. Thank you again for taking time out of your busy schedule.                                                         Sincerely,                                                                       Royce <I would look to a smaller Pacific, Indian Ocean Pomacanthid species here. Wait till you have a tropical West Atlantic biotopic effort to try one of these Caribbean angels. Bob Fenner>

More Than One Angel- A Long Term View ... Scotter's go  - 06/06/2006 I have a juvenile Queen Angel about 2 inches (been in the tank a week)  in a 150 gal tank. no other Angels...would it be safe to add another Angel of larger size, like a Personifer or Asfur, or  would it be better to add a Flame or another Dwarf Angel? Only thing that worries about adding a Dwarf Angel now is it would be relatively the same size as the queen... any other recommendations if you disagree with this? Thank you, Alan <Well, Alan- your approach is okay if you are planning on having more than one Angel. Always try to utilize Angels from different genera. However, you really need to think of the "end game" here: Your Queen Angel can and will hit close to 18" as an adult, and it will need a tank of 200-300 gallons or more (and 8' in length) to accommodate it for anything approaching its natural life span (may be up to 15-20 years!). Adding another Angel into the mix is potentially problematic in the long run, unless you'll have housing for both of them. If anything, try the Centropyge (Flame) Angel, as it is significantly smaller, and will generally mix okay with the Queen, provided the fish is added while the Queen is still a juvenile. Again, I caution you to think about the long term, and how much room these fish truly require. To live in even a 150 gallon tank for the rest of its life would be like you spending the rest of your life in your living room...possible, but miserable. These guys need lots of space to move around in, and they can be territorial in even large tanks. Unless you've got a much bigger tank in the future, I'd stick with one Angel. Best of luck! Regards, Scott F.>

Marine angels comp. RMF's annotated response...  - 06/06/2006 I have a juvenile queen about 2 inches (been in the tank a week)  in a 150 gal tank.. no other angels... would it be safe to add another angel of larger size like a Personifer or asfur or  would it be better to add a flame or another dwarf angel... only thing that worries about adding a dwarf angel now is it would be relatively the same size as the queen... any other recommendations if you disagree with this? Thank you, Alan <The Queen itself will outgrow this sized system... and before this dominate, become the alpha specimen... I would not consider permanently adding another large angelfish species, and only a smaller one temporarily. Bob Fenner> |

Chocolate Chip Angel Cookies - 04/02/2006 Hello, I have a question. <Ok.> My brother has a Chocolate Chip starfish and an angel fish that don't seem to be getting along. The angel fish is nipping at his starfish. <Mmm...tasty.> Is he just being mean or is the angel fish not getting enough to eat? <Hmm...can't say if its getting enough to eat, but likely wouldn't matter anyway, probably just has starfish on the menu. I would separate these.> The tank is about a 40 gal. Thanks <Welcome. - Josh>

SW Angels/Selection   3/28/06   James,  Jeromy> Thanks for the help......one more question......Any cool looking angel fish you would recommend that are reef safe and hardy. <None I know of that are reef safe.  James (Salty Dog)>    Thanks again, Jeromy

Angel fish problems ... systems, comp. - 03/12/2006 Dear WWM Crew, I'm having problems with my reef tank and would greatly appreciate your experience and guidance. By way of background I have an Aqua One AR-850 (about 50 gal), which I set up 11 months ago.  Unfortunately, I didn't discover your site until after I purchased my tank and equipment. The tank has 3 filters: (1)     Built-in AR-850 top filter with sponges, porcelain tubes and wool. (2)     Aqua One CF-1200 canister filter with: a.       Level 1/top - bio balls; b.       Level 2/middle - Porcelain tubes; and c.       Level 3/bottom - 2 sponges. <These last I would likely remove> (3)     Small submerged UV filter with built in air pump. I have a reasonable quantity of live rock and corals, large anemone, large clam, etc.  Until yesterday, the resident fish were: *         2 Ocellaris Clownfish; *         1 Royal Dottyback; *         1 Yellow Tang; *         2 dwarf Angelfish (Coral Beauty and Singapore Angel); and <... inappropriate for this size system> *         1 Pacific Blue Tang. <Ditto ultimately> The fish entered the tank in the order shown above, with the Blue Tang entering last, about 3 weeks ago - it's doing well.  The 2 Angelfish went into the tank in December (received as a gift).  Although possibly not that suitable for a reef tank, both angelfish had settled in and appeared to be doing well.   <Not for long...> Yesterday, I noticed the Coral Beauty was missing and the Singapore Angel (normally an active grazer) was hiding away - it had a very pinched stomach but otherwise looked healthy and didn't appear to be gasping.  The Singapore Angel passed away today. <...> I have tested ammonia, nitrite, nitrate, phosphate and KH.  All appear fine, except the nitrate is high (40mg/litre), <Yes> although it has always tested at that level since the tank stabilized and the algae/invertebrate don't appear to be affected - also, I understand nitrate kits tend to give exaggerated readings. <Not likely... and you want to reduce this> I normally do a 15 to 20% water change each fortnight.  The past few months, I have been collecting water from the ocean (which is possible a bit polluted - I don't know).  I assumed it was better for the fish that prepared water. I'm at a loss as to why both Angels died so abruptly when they seemed to be doing so well.  Perhaps my tank and filter set up is not good enough for angel fish - what do you think? <Not "the right" environment for these Pomacanthids... and not together> Also, I am concerned that the other fish might start to die and I would like to feel I have done everything I could to prevent that from happening. <I as well> Your thoughts/comments would be greatly appreciated. Kind regards, Cameron <Mmm, what to say? Where to start? Do read re Nitrates on WWM, remove those sponges... consider other means of improving water quality... and please read re Quarantine, the Systems, Compatibility of future purchases ahead of their acquisition. Bob Fenner>

Marine Compatibility, Stocking (Mixing multiple Tangs and Angels)   1/22/06 I have a 125 gallon fish only tank with a scribbled angel, majestic Foxface, gold spotted Foxface, red sea Desjardin tang, convict tang , Tomini tang, Pakistan butterfly, radiant wrasse, velvet wrasse, coral beauty angel and a few green Chromis. <Lots of fish…too many fish.> Total inches of fish is around 32".  I would like to add another angel.   <I wouldn't.> I love the personifers, Asfurs, emperors (juvenile). What would you recommend? <Neither, tank is already crowded and the angels will likely fight.> I can remove some fish if you think it will be too crowded.    <Even if you remove fish, the angels will not be compatible in a tank of this size.> Have about 175 pounds live rock. Thanks <Welcome.> Alan Kravitz <Adam J.>

Zoanthus/Angels  12/16/05 Hi Crew, <Hello Steven> Quick question:  I read on Mr. Fenner's article regarding Zoanthus that most living creatures give this species wide berth with the exception of a particular snail.  I bought a couple of rocks containing Zoanthus polyps on them in hope of adding some color to my FOWLR aquarium.  When I put the Zoanthids in the main display I saw my Chrysurus angel take a few "nips" off of the polyps.  The polyps closed immediately when they were nipped by the angel and every now and then I see him taking a nip.   In the article by Mr. Fenner he mentioned the toxic nature of the Zoanthus being the reason they are given their space, so my question has two parts. First:  will my prize angel get sick or poisoned?  Second:  will my newly purchased Zoanthids become a treat for my angel fish?  <Angels are not to be trusted with corals, etc.  Your new zos will more than likely be a treat.  As far as poisoning, I wouldn't worry about that, very unlikely that your angel will become sick.  I've seen Korans plucking the tips off anemones with no ill effects to the fish.  James (Salty Dog)> Your comments are greatly appreciated. <Thank you> Best Regards, Steven

Cleaner Shrimp Cocktails 12-05-05 Hello, <Hi> I am having a small problem and thought you might have an idea on how i might fix this. <I hope I can.> Presently I have a six foot long 180 gal marine tank. I am using it as a angel tank. I have approx 100# of live rock on a live sand bed about 4 inches deep. I have always had cleaner shrimp in my tank as a biological deterrent. I have a sub adult French (mid change) and a juv (2-3inch) passer. Well I found my cleaner was missing and figured that it died and was cleaned up by the snails and hermits.  I went to put another in and as soon as I did it was eaten by the French. I tried again placing him in as I fed the angels from the other side but as soon as the food was gone they grabbed the shrimp as soon as it was out of the rock enough. I have had a emperor angel on order from my LFS for about six months now and we finally found one that was just the right size and healthy and eating, and some of the most beautiful patterns on it (it's also just changed.) The new angel is in quarantine and will remain for at least 4 weeks. <Glad to hear you say that. The LFS will hold bigger angels in a quarantine tank they have, if specially ordered. <That is nice of them, but make sure that tank is on its own water line and that they are not adding new fish to the tank. All of those issues would make it so your fish was never truly QT'd.> How do I get shrimp back in my tank. <Remove the offending fish.> As long as I have had cleaners I never had a problem with Ich etc, plus my angels looked a lot better and would go get cleaned every day. I've used the gobies but they never even tried to clean. Any ideas? <Gobies are very hit and miss. I have not heard of any that live long term either.> I really like using the shrimp, natural way, but know that as soon as the new angel goes in there will be stress and I don't want to have a problem to get out of hand if it pops up. Any suggestions will be appreciated. <Make sure the fish is properly QT'd and if you need the shrimp then the angel has to go.> Is the 180 enough for the French and emperor? <Sure.> I will be putting the passer in my 100 gal I have. <Good Luck, Travis>

Coral trouble, Possible Angel Predation, and Their Little "i's"  12/10/05 Hi, <Hello.> I'm new to this hobby, <No worries, we all were once.> I only had my tank with live rocks but now I want most kinds of corals. <Most kinds of corals, that would require a VERY large tank, best to limit yourself to a few species in this water volume.> I have a 26g tank with I think it is a Starburst Polyp I got a few days ago, and I know that they take at least a week for them to come out of hiding, <Mmm, sometimes, though in ideal conditions I have had them open up for me within hours...this being after a 36 hour trip from the collection point.> but I see that most of its body is light red, and it has a spot or two that is darker red, I think it may be that is dying or it has a disease. <If these are star polyps we are talking about, its quite common for them have many color variations, its also common for algae to grow on top of them. Having said that they appreciate a spot with ample water flow to keep detritus and algae from settling on them.> But then again I think it is because of my Angelfish, I saw it nibble on it a couple of times. <Sounds like the culprit the coral will not extend and live with a fish using it as a food source, it will eventually die if this is the case.> Do you guys have any idea what it can be? <My guess is the angel, hard to say more since you did not list water parameters.> I will really be thankful with your answers. And is a 65 watts good enough for a 26g tank? <It is good enough for a wide array of many easy to keep photosynthetic animals, I would stay away from "shallow water"/light demanding critters, Adam J.>

Large Marine Angels in the Reef Tank (Uh Oh!  I'm Tellin' Mom!)  11/30/3005 Hello Robert, <Actually Adam J filling in this morning.> I have a question that I have seen answered several ways and really respect your opinion so I will ask it again. I have a 180 gallon soft coral reef that I am going to break down and move to another part of the house. I will be keeping my pair of true Percs and a pair of blue green Chromis and the rest of my fish and the soft corals will be given away to friends and other good homes. I will be upgrading the lighting (adding two 400 watt 20K MH to my three existing 175 10K MH and PC actinics), <That's a lot of heat be sure to keep it ventilated well.> bigger skimmer (with ozone), and going to an automated RO/DI top off system. I will also be adding a calcium reactor and a 55 gallon refugium to my existing 40 gallon sump (powered by an Iwaki 70 RLT) and will be adding two Tunze powerheads to the tank to ramp up the flow. <Those all sound like very worthy upgrades.> This system will be a SPS only reef and the only other invert will be a long tentacle anemone (besides my clean up crew and cleaner shrimps). <Honestly anemones are best left out of tank will sessile inverts, unless you already have it I would reconsider.> <<Also, it is not unknown for Pomacanthids to eat anemones.  Marina>> I want to add a large angel to this tank and am considering three species. My first choice is the Chaetodontoplus meredithi or Queensland yellowtail. I really like this fish and would love to get a pair but realize this may not be possible. My second choice is the Flagfin angel, Apolemichthys trimaculatus. <This second choice is notorious for succumbing to poor chipping and not adapting to captivity in general.> the other angel I am considering is the majestic, Pomacanthus navarchus. <This is often a very difficult but "do-able" species care wise.> Do you think any of these three angels might be a good choice for an SPS reef? <I have personally seen the last in a reef tank but have not observed the first two. One of these choices can work but it is still a risk. Though recent first hand reports (me talking to other people) have seen this arrangement (large angels in SPS reefs) growing in popularity and working out. The coral itself goes ignored most of the times, though Tridacnid clams (which are commonly kept with SPS) are another story….these angels love to nip at their mantels. While continuing your research in the above specimens I would also look into Genicanthus angels, they are planktivores and in my experience most are good reef citizens.> I have gotten mostly favorable responses but would really like to know what you think. Also what do you think of my choice of equipment for this tank, am I missing anything? <You mentioned big skimmer but I didn't see a brand….I can help you out with that if you would like.> Thank you for your time and consideration. -Mike Hahn <You are welcome, Adam J.> 
Re: Large Angels in the SPS Reef Tank  12/2/05
Thanks for the prompt answer Adam! <No trouble.> As far as the heat issues I live in the mountains and heat has never been a problem and with the new setup both the sump and refugium will now be on the other side of a wall and in a garage which can get quite cool. <Glad to hear you are on top of it, I suspected as much.> I was actually more worried about these getting too cold in the winter (summers don't get really hot up here either) but all my lighting is in a well ventilated hood so I guess I will have to see if a chiller may be needed with those 400 watters in the summer.  <Yes monitor carefully. Stability is the key with temperature.> I don't have an anemone at this time but was considering the LTA, Macrodactyla doreensis, due to its habit of staying in the sandbed and not wandering (at least my other one never did). I'm assuming the reason is the anemone stinging the SPS? <Yes and it (the anemone) being picked on by the angel.> If I keep it away from the corals do you still think this will be a problem? <Well I'm still not a fan of keeping anemones with sessile inverts. But that's not to say it can't be done. Have seen this mixture before….have done it myself regrettably.> I never had a problem with the LTA and any of my softies.  I know about Flagfins doing poorly but I have heard the ones from the Maldives or Fiji often do much better and I will pay a premium price for livestock if it means a specimen has a greater chance to live and thrive (especially a hard to keep fish like a Flagfin), <Well finding a good source, *such as The Marine Center) will increase your chances but still be aware of the odds so to speak.> I have just never heard how they might do in an SPS tank. <As mentioned in the previous email, it's still a risk but one that's growing in popularity so success stories are increasing, though I'm willing to bet there's a few horror stories out there as well.> I don't plan on keeping clams, LPS, zoo's or any of the other corals that angels have a real hard time laying off of, <Okay sounds good.> this tank will be SPS only. Another fish I have considered but forgot to mention is the scribbled angel, any thoughts? <You do like pricey fish don't you! Beautiful fish though I can see why you would want one. I have never had any personal experience with this specimen. Though the few people I know of who have say that the adults adapt poorly and that juveniles in the two to three inch range are your best bet. (This is true about many fish in general though) See here for some more detailed explanation: http://www.wetwebmedia.com/marine/fishes/angels/chaetodonoplus/faqs.htm  and here: http://www.wetwebmedia.com/marine/fishes/angels/chaetodonoplus/index.htm .> I am running a smaller Euroreef skimmer now and am happy with it's performance but to be perfectly honest I have been less than thrilled with the reliability of this unit and EuroReef's customer service has been horrible, to make a long story short I got jerked around when I tried to buy a replacement pump for this skimmer and I never got a satisfactory reason why.  <<Wow, an incredible difference from the experiences of many, if not most, others who have dealt with Euro-Reef.  Marina>> What do you think of the ASM G series skimmers? <I use one and love it.> Specifically the GX-4 model? <That's what I have, well the GX-3, same thing just a bit smaller.> Thanks again for your time Adam. -Mike Hahn <I enjoy helping Mike, you are welcome. Adam J.>

Big time fighting (with English?), and Large Angels That Bark!  11/20/05 Hi I got a problem that happened over night... I have a queen angel about 10inchs and (have had) her for five years... And six months ago I put in a emperor angel also 10 inches and they both got along great until today 6 months later the emperor is chases the queen and making barking noise and the queen is getting really stressed. <I'll bet> I love them both and they are in great shape.. They are in a 500 gallon tank with a fox face and a lion fish.... They have the best equipment and care. I don't want to loose <Or lose> them any help or suggestions would be great.. I hope this ends and is for today only.. I shut the lights off for the day.... Help please Jimmy.. I'm a big fan of the site... Thanks --jamgabby <Need to separate these fishes, pronto. Bob Fenner> 

Blue-in-the Face Angel - Which is Which, and Can We Be Friends?  11/18/05 Hello, <<Hello.>> I've been reading through your web site regarding angelfish.  <<I hope it's been informative and educational.>> They are beautiful fish.  <<They are indeed.>> I currently have a blue face angel in a 90 Gallon reef system.  <<Ok.>> Can I put an emperor or a queen angel in the same tank with the Blue Face?  <<Nope.>> Will they get along?  <<Nope. This is not addressing the fact that the Blue-face is about the largest fish one could safely put in a system this size, these other angels get larger, are much more aggressive, will put your system in the "GROSSLY OVERSTOCKED!" category.>> Also, are they reef safe?  <<Most often, no. I know there are some who've had good luck with Pomacanthids in reef systems, but these were incredibly large systems. Thousands of gallons, not tens of gallons.>> I purchased the blue face from the LFS which had it in a reef system for over two months. <<If you want to risk it, I cannot tell you don't, but I can tell you your system is full up with the angel you have.>>  Thanks, Brent <<I would expect one angel to try to beat the heck out of the other, whoever thinks they'll win will continue trying till the death or removal of the other ensues, in my experience. Again, this does not address the fact that your system is simply far too small (I think it's pretty tight for the fish you have in there, honestly, I wouldn't try it in anything smaller than 180 gallons, and you're doing it in half that volume).>> <<P.S. It would be helpful to know EXACTLY what species you're talking about - there are two species from different genuses (?) that are commonly called "blue face". Pomacanthus navarchus is what I think of, but there is also Pomacanthus xanthometopon (on FishBase called "yellowface" even though its face is primarily blue). There's a 10cm difference in size of these fishes, and slight personality differences (though neither could really be called "shy" or "non-territorial"). In short, I would not attempt to add another angel, simply because this size system won't allow it. Marina>>
Blue-in-the Face Angel - Which is Which?  11/19/05
Hello and thanks for the quick response.  <<You're very welcome.>> When you say my system is full up with the blue face angel that I have, does that mean I can't put any other fish in the aquarium with it?  <<Not knowing other specifics about your system, I cannot say that with any real certainty. I would not put in any other large fishes assuming you don't have an exceedingly large sump and/or refugium (something that might double total water volume. Swimming space is to be considered as well, as these fishes are territorial and aggressive with ANY perceived threat). For instance, I would probably avoid large tangs - poop machines that place large demands on the system, need scads of room to swim, and can be a bit of a crap shoot when it comes to sharing a small space with another large animal. However, lots of neon or clown gobies, smaller species of Pseudochromids, a few of the smaller cardinal fishes, etc. would be more appropriate - especially the neon gobies given their occasional propensity for cleaning duties (again, this is without really knowing anything else about your set-up).>> The exact species that I'm talking about is Euxiphipops xanthometopon. <<Ah, Fishbase's "yellow-face" angel, then.. the larger of the two species if I recollect. Gorgeous fish, and hopefully it won't decimate corals (LPS would be my biggest concern) or overtax the system.>> Thanks, Brent <<Again, most welcome. Marina>> 

Anemone Systems, Mixing Angels - 10/24/05 I currently have a 75 gallon f/o with live rock. I am considering upgrading the lighting system to two 150 watt halides and putting a bubble or Ritteri anemone or both anemones in the tank. <Well you would only be able to choose one as two anemones of different species in the same system will fight both physically and chemically. In this choice I would choose the Bubble (E. quadricolor) as the Ritteri has a dismal survival record.> The current fish are a yellow tang, a hippo tang,  <Two tangs will be too much for this tank long term.>  a xanthurus angel, a flame angel, and a Fourline wrasse. I also have a Potter's angel in quarantine tank for about one month and doing well , I would like to put him in this tank when I change it over , the flame will probably be taken out to avoid any conflict with the Potter's. The flame is two years old and very established.  <Centropyge potteri is another fish that has a very poor survival record be sure it is healthy and eating well before addition to the display, and yes you will have to remove the flame.>  Do you see any problems with the change over? <Not with your current stock, but be sure to research anemones before purchase, they are quite sensitive animals.> I would like to put host clownfish in this tank  <Keep in mind there is no guarantee that the clown will take to the anemone, and also keep in mind clowns have been known to host in things other than anemones such as Sinularia and Sarcophyton Leathers.>  Thanks Ron. <You are welcome Adam J.> 

Mixing my favorite angels  10/19/05 Hi there I visited your site for the first time and it's one of the best informative sites on the web for fish.   I plan to get a 220 gal tank next month and would like to put in several Angels. I primarily like the Pomacanthus and Holacanthus genera.  I would love to get a French and a Queen Angel. Someone even mentioned getting a third might be better for avoiding problems.  If compatible , should I get them the same size ?  Should they be mixed as in Juveniles and adults ?  I different sizes is recommended , which one should be the larger fish ? French or Queen?  Thanks <In a 220 you shouldn't have much problem.  I'd get them all the same size if it were me.  Read here also, Peter. http://www.wetwebmedia.com/marine/fishes/angels/    James (Salty Dog)> Peter I know mixing certain angels is risky but I absolutely love these fish and want no others in the tank.    thanks <You're welcome>

Maculosus angel reef safe 8/9/05 Hello, <Hi Rob, MacL here with you today.> Simple question for you - Is a tank-raised maculosus angel less likely to eat corals than a wild caught specimen?  I have a couple of brain corals, star polyps, lots of mushrooms, Zoanthids, two different leathers and various inverts.  I am moving the corals into a separate tank but not for a couple of months.  I have the opportunity to get a tank-raised maculosus angel now.  How bad would he be in my reef for a couple of months?  I have raised an emperor angel in this reef tank and he barely touched anything, he recently died after 4 1/2 years and I would like to try again with a different species. <I did this myself with a tank raised maculosus and the only thing I had problems with were sponges and tunicates. He just chowed down on them. I think with most corals you would be fine.> Thanks for the advice and as always - love the website. Rob Mancabelli

Regal Angel, Reef Safe? 8/7/05 In your opinion, is the Regal Angel a reef safe fish ??? I have 2 different opinions. one says it is reef safe provided that it is well fed and the other is that it is not safe in a reef setting. I have 150 gal, SPS tank with a few clams. Thank you, Ramy Banoub. <Hi Ramy - Ali here. As with any angel, the chance of finding a totally "reef safe" specimen is always hit and miss. It is impossible to say for sure whether your angel will go around systematically picking at your treasured "reef" animals or if he will act as a perfect 'angel'. From personal experience, I have had two Red Sea specimens: one which never looked twice at a coral and another which continuously picked at fleshy LPS corals and decimated the snail population. It is also not uncommon for them to suddenly change their behavior and acquire a taste for corals seemingly out of the blue. Additionally, this is also NOT an easy fish to keep. During the past year, from what I have seen at the wholesalers and retailers alike here in Southern California, is that not only is this fish is arriving with more frequency, but fortunately they appear to be more vibrant, alert and with full bellies. Perhaps better collection and shipping methods. Even with this said, I would only recommend this fish if you are an experienced reef/fishkeeper with a large aquarium with plenty of established live rock, who is able to locate a Red Sea/Indian Ocean specimen, under 3" that is eating prepared foods in advance. - Ali>

Asfur and Annularis Angel Hi, I have a blue ringed angel around 4 inches and still in juvenile colours. He has been in my tank ( 350 Gallons) for 10 months. I have 2 Red Sea Asfur angels to choose from. One is the same size as my blue ringed and the other an inch or 2 bigger. They are both in adult coloration. Will these fish get on and if so, which sized one will I buy? Many Thanks, James. >>>Hello James, Always mix sizes and color patterns when mixing angels. Get the larger Asfur and you SHOULD be fine. I've kept angel communities in the past with some success, but you never know with angels. The best advice I can give you here is to quarantine the new arrival for 6 weeks or so, and move the live rock around in your main tank before introducing the new angel. This will break up the resident angel's territory and put them both on more or less the same ground. Good luck Jim<<< 

Pomacanthus navarchus Angel Compatibility Hey. Well, I guess this question has been asked several times, but with the fact that idea that a different angel has been in the place of this one. So, here's the question. I have a 120g aquarium that has been running for a while and never been stocked. I have a 30g anemone tank that I was planning on emptying into this. The anemone tank has a green tip E. quadricolor (7" across), a rose bubble (10" across), purple haddoni carpet (16" across. I've had this one for 2 years and it looks just as good as it did at day one.. I hear carpets don't do well in captivity)..  <They don't. 2 years is but a mere fraction compared to 200+ in the wild.> As far as the fish, there are a pair of gold stripe maroons, pair of pink skunks, royal Gramma, 4-line wrasse. I was reading on the P. navarchus and I saw that it in some cases can be kept in a reef tank, with SPS but not LPS.. I know that angels are generally unpredictable, but I really would like to have one... <Everyone would like a Blue Girdled Angel> ...and I can't seem to find anything regarding this fish with anemones... <Anemones won't fare too well with this family of fish. The anemones will eventually be picked to death.>  ... but at the same time my clowns are really protective with their anemones, but not aggressive outside of them. They only bother fish who come within a couple inches or so, and even then it's not in the sense that they nip fins, but more so that they just get really close and kind of "push" the fish without biting at it. Does this make sense? <Yes>  Anyways.. I would like to know if the P. navarchus has any history of attacking bubble tips or carpets. <Yes>  Any info would be greatly appreciated. So in the end the extra bonus question is what corals would you definitely NOT put this fish with?  <I would not trust them with any corals. When the angels are juveniles they're not quite so bad, but as the grow they get worse in that regard. I also think your 120 is too new a set up to put an angel in. James (Salty Dog)>

Large Angelfish Compatibility Sat, 19 Feb 2005 Greetings. I just purchased a 400 gallon acrylic aquarium, with the works, it's my dream tank:). I have gone from 30, to 55, to 125, to 200 and now the big boy:). I have a 4" queen angel fish quarantined as a new purchase in my 30 gallon hospital tank. I will introduce him into the new tank in a month or so once it is cycled. I want to add a 4" passer angel fish to the new tank as well, simultaneously. Will this be acceptable, or is there any other large angle that will work better with the queen? I appreciate your input, and enjoy reading your many informative posts. Thanks in advance. <Paul, you indeed have a dream tank.  Your tank is large enough that no aggressive behavior should take place.  Putting them in together is right way to go, they both start off with the same amount of marbles.  Good luck with the dream system.  James (Salty Dog)> Paul

Reef safe angel Hi Crew, <Hi Greg, MacL here with you today.> Hopefully you can clear-up an angel fish question for me…  I have always read that angel fish (except for some Centropyge) are notorious coral nippers but I have recently noticed what appears to be a Regal Angel (Pygoplites diacanthus) in reef aquariums in Eric Borneman's book on aquarium corals. <Nice fish aren't they? BUT sadly I wouldn't call a regal reef safe, the reality is that angel fish are all over the reef because that is where they feed.> Is Pygoplites diacanthus generally considered reef-safe? <Nope.> Do you have an recommendations for attractive reef-safe angels, not of the Centropyge genus?  I had to remove my Centropyge argi due to it nipping my Lobophyllia. <I have heard that swallowtails are relatively reef safe, please note the word relatively. I currently have a Maculosus angel in my reef but let me stress this, as he has aged he has become less and less reef safe. It truly depends on what you keep in your reef and your individual fish. As a general rule the Genicanthus Angelfishes as a whole are considered fairly reef safe but they are also considered fairly delicate.> I would also like to keep a copper banded butterfly in my reef tank but, from reading the many postings on WetWebMedia, I still cannot draw a conclusion regarding whether or not these are reef-safe.  The answer always seems to be "That depends upon your definition of reef-safe".  <That is because some fish work just great and others are just terrors in the tank.>By  "reef-safe". I mean is a copper banded butterfly likely to cause stress or shorten the life of soft, SPS or LPS corals or of a bubble tip anemone (and possibly snails and cleaner shrimp). <They might very well eat the anemone. Its been known to happen.> What is you opinion or experience? One other problem could be the several tangs and the maroon clown pair in my tank.  Is a copper band butterfly likely to co-exist well with such fish in a 180g aquarium? <Usually that isn't a problem.> Lastly, I would like to add a few Heniochus if I could just locate any that are reef-safe <I loved my Heniochus.>(if I cannot add a copper band B/F). I can only locate Heniochus acuminatus but I have read that only Heniochus diphreutes is reef-safe.  Could you suggest where I might find Heniochus diphreutes (unless you disagree that H. acuminatus is not reef-safe)? <You can try www.themarinecenter.com, but I have never had any problems with any Heniochus. Once again though, its really individual fish.> Thank you, in advance, for the "butterfly brush-up"!  <You might take a look at Scott Michaels latest book on angel fish for more detail and please let me know what you decide. I could talk angel fish for days and days, they are truly amazing and gorgeous, glorious fish. Good luck Greg, MacL> --Greg

Re: Chrysurus angel... in a reef? hello there crew! I had a quick question about the Goldtail angel (Pomacanthus Chrysurus). Now I know no angel is "reef safe" but I have to ask...Can a Chrysurus be kept in conjunction with reef tank inhabitants? I know that some angels can get along in a reef such as Majestics and imperators. I mean I've seen it done before and was wondering if you think a Chrysurus could fit into the somewhat reef safe angel category. The tank will have mostly SPS corals with a very healthy fauna. It's a 70g tall tank (I know waaay to small for this fish but will be upgraded to the likes of a 180-300g system by the time it grows out of its juvenile phase) with a 20g sump and 20-50g refugium. All I'm asking is "can it be done" if I take the right precautions (quarantine, healthy eating individual, small initial size, etc.)? Thanks for the help and quick response :) Chris AKA Fishtank hey bob do you think you could give me the specs on Leng's tank?  I'm willing to bet he was using an ecosystem filter system, but were there any other key aspects in that tank? <Mmm, best to cc Leng here. Have done so. The specimen/s I saw in his tank... it was about five by five by two feet overall... had a BUNCH of soft and stony corals in it. Leng? Bob Fenner>

Lionfish Compatibility <Hi, MikeD here> I have a five foot long, one hundred gallon, fish-only tank.  It is home to a six inch Volitans Lion and an eight inch Snowflake Eel.  These two have gotten  along fine except occasionally at feeding time when all hell has broken loose.<Using a feeding stick or a long pair of tongs will prevent this if you "target feed" the eel in the LR.>   I recently added a three and a half inch Red Sea Angel which has adapted to my aquarium very well.  My only concern is that the Lionfish has made several unsuccessful attempts to make the Angel lunch.<I strongly suspect that he's merely attempting to drive it away from him, rather than making it "lunch".>  Just prior to adding the Angel I fed the Lion an ample amount indicated by his bloated stomach, yet once the Angel was in he went right after him.  Now I understand the Lion has a rather large mouth but after much discussion with my local fish guy we both concluded that the tall body would likely prevent the Angel from becoming an expensive snack.  Now either we are mistaken or the Lion is just not too fond of his new roommate and imposing his dominance.  Any thoughts on this matter would be greatly appreciated.<I suspect that you are correct in your assumptions, although territoriality is likely not the primary reason Many juvenile angels have body shapes similar to damselfish, notorious fin-nippers that are high on the Lion's list of fish to be kept at a distance.  In addition, some angels serve as cleaners while young, which would tend to re-enforce the lionfish's keeping it at fin's length out of self preservation.>

Nervous Red Sea Mac Angel Hi Everyone           Firstly I got to say you guys are the absolute best and I browse the site all the time, I need your advice though, yesterday after much thought I purchased my last fish for my 125 gallon FOWLR, A gorgeous red sea maculosus Angel, he or she is approx 5 inches long and in perfect condition, after doing a freshwater dip, I slowly acclimatized him and released him into the tank, only trouble is my 7 inch Lunare seems to intimidate my Angel, Max the lunare never bites the angel but just corrals the angel into a corner, after reading that Macs are hearty eaters I tried feeding with clam, squid, cockle even octopus and also tried to feed Julian Sprung's "sea veggies", My Mac shows interest but as soon as he starts to swim towards the food Max the Lunare swims past him slowly fins flared and my Mac hides, he seems to be picking a little at the food but I really don't think its enough imp worried that he will not eat and I am unsure of what exactly to do, this Angel was very expensive ?150, and I'm concerned for his welfare, the only other inhabitant is a 12 inch snowflake moray who is completely docile and well behaved, what can I do? <just let things play out...that angelfish will soon become the king of you aquarium. Don't worry> Is this normal?<yes> Or do I need to remove my Lunare, Please help , I feel like an anxious parent! Thank you Wet Web Media Crew you're the best :-) <keep the lunare in there with the angelfish...they will be fine, IanB> <<RMF disagrees; would move one out>>

Something to share I have kept a blue faced, majestic, and six striped angels in a 155 gal aquarium for over two years I just thought I would share this with you.   Thanks   Rob <Congratulations. I do hope for your/their continuing good health and happiness. Bob Fenner>

Regal Angelfish and Majestic Angelfish Dear Mr. Bob Fenner <Shahzad> Can a Regal Angelfish and a Majestic Angelfish be kept together in a 125 gallon tank?  The Majestic will be a Juv. and  the Regal will be a "small";  both will be about 1.5" to 3" or so.  Please let me know what you think. Thank you for your time! Shahzad <Mmm, not very long or very well... best to keep large Pacific (and Indo-Pacific) marine angel species one to a tank... unless the system is several hundreds of gallons plus. Bob Fenner>

Can I have two angelfish in a 120 gal? Good evening WW. Crew, << Blundell here this morning. >> I have a question about angelfish compatibility.  I have a 120G long FOWLR tank with a Tomato Clown, False Eye puffer, Purple Tang, Heniochus chrysostomus and a 4" Flag Fin Angel.  I am wanting to know if I can add a Navarchus Angel.  My feeling is that the tank is too small for the 2 angels but I thought I would get an expert opinion.  << I actually think you are okay. >Blunderall... NO<  My main concern is that I would make sure you have 150 pounds of live rock in that tank.  I think the physical tank size is large enough, but they need to make homes and feel safe. >> My flag fin is not a shy fish by any means.  He sparred with the purple tang for a few days and now the 2 fish get along.  If you do not think the 2 angels will get along then what about adding a dwarf angel or another tang such as a powder blue or a blue hippo tang. << I actually think all those fish are fine, in terms of tank size.  They aren't the easiest fish to keep, and I would probably go with the angel. >>  Thanks, Larry. <<  Blundell  >>

Two large marine angels may be too much 8/2/04 First of all I just want to thank you for providing such a great time consuming site with such useful information. <Thank you. We try>  My question is, Can you house 2 large angels in a 240 gallon fish only tank? <Not usually. If you were to try,  my suggestion would be to ad two small ones at the same time and as unlike as possible>  In my current stages of setting up <New Tank? MY suggestion is to hold off until the tank has been up and running for a full year before adding angels.>  I have an Arothron reticularis puffer, yellow Hawaiian tang, 2 Percs, zebra moray and a flame Hawkfish. I am interested in adding 2 or more of these large angels to my tank, either the Maculosus angel, Chrysurus angel, passer angel, queen angel, Annularis angel, imperator angel or Koran angel. Which do you recommend if it is possible that wont cause havoc with my current fish or the other fish I plan to add which is a white cheek tang, or blue unicorn tang, and the tear drop butterfly or the saddleback butterfly. Keeping all of this in mind which angels would be best coexisting in my tank? <Type is relatively unimportant, although the smaller species would seem most logical> Thanks

Marine Angels 8/2/04 <Hi, MikeD here> I have a beautiful pair of Bellus angels, they are fat and happy....  I have many other fish  in a 150 gallon reef. 4 squamipinnis Anthias 2 squarebox Anthias 1 purple pseudo 3 green Chromis 1 Firefish mandarin 2 clowns in host 2 Scott's wrasse (male and female) pair of Bellus Can I add a Watanabei? <I wouldn't the new addition is likely to promote an all out war>   Would the Bellus and Watanabei get along, do I have to many fish?<Sounds good as is>  I have had most of my fish 8 years, I believe in regular water changes and am a stickler for clean water and happy critters.  I feed only frozen quality food and most things thrive once added that is why I try to ask as many people as I can before a purchase.<Sometimes wise> Any help is greatly appreciated. <Good luck>

Friends For An Angel Dear Scott, <Hello again!> I went to the LFS on Friday and finally bought an angel. There were a few different varieties there but the most striking was a Grey Poma. I didn't really plan on buying this fish but they look so much better in "person" than all the photos I've seen and it showed so much more personality than the other dwarf angels on offer. <I love this species! It doesn't get too large, generally feeds well, and has fabulous colors (although not as flashy as some other species> It is about 4.5 inches long, very healthy-looking with bright colours. It was feeding in the shop and it has been pecking the live rock and happily snapping up whatever food I put in the tank (I have offered Nutrafin Spirulina flake and marine diet as well as chopped prawns and a tiny bit of Banana) as well as destroying a small native featherstars. <That's gonna happen with this angel!> She is still a bit shy but is slowly starting to come out of the rockwork and swim around the tank. <Really a great choice. I'm sure that you'll love her!> I also bought ten "boxing shrimp", they were 10 for $4 and the guy there said they would be good for eating leftover food. They are between 2 and 3 inches long, transparent, light brown with burgundy spots with elongated pincers. They readily consume any uneaten food and do not appear to hassle the angel or each other. I will be getting a pair of gold-banded maroon clowns next week but apart from them I am not sure what other fish would make suitable inhabitants. I assume the Poma will fight with other angels so what about some type of butterfly or wrasse? <I really like Halichoeres species wrasses, myself. Check 'em out!> The guy suggested a Bicolour Parrot but those fish grow to 90cm. <Yep...Really not a good long-term choice for most captive systems, IMO!> Do you have any other suggestions for fish that will cohabitate with as well as compliment these fish? <Well, there are literally hundreds of possible choices. I really encourage you to check out some of the many neat smaller wrasses, some of the more peaceful Dottybacks, blennies, gobies, and many, many others! How was that for unhelpful!> Thanks again for all your advice Yours Sincerely Adam Harbeck <My pleasure, Adam! I love your Angel choice! Have fun looking into the many other possibilities for companions for the angel! Good luck! Regards, Scott F>
Friend For His Angel?
Hello Scott, <Hi there!> Thank you again for your helpful replies. Well the Poma and the clowns have not shown any sign of Ich reinfestation since I started medicating. <A good sign!> However, I have dismantled my other tank (20 gallon )  and set it up as a permanent quarantine/hospital tank, and this meant transferring my unidentified (Chrysiptera?) damsel into the 6 foot tank. <You know- it is not necessary to leave a quarantine tank up and running on a permanent basis- just keep a sponge filter or other media in the display tank, ready to go at all times, add some water from the display tank, and there you go...> I did a big water change and gravel-wash before I introduced him and he was fine on the first day but the next day he had developed Ich (the others were unaffected). I have started treating the tank again  (the hospital tank is not yet up to scratch) and all the spots have gone. I am not going to add anymore fish for at least three weeks so that hopefully the Ich does not re-establish itself. < A wise decision> I do not think I would be able to get a cleaner goby as my dealer mostly sells Indo-Pacific and Red Sea varieties as Caribbean stuff is VERY expensive. <Just as well. Although cleaners can help, they are not a sure cure for parasitic infestations> I will probably get a pair or banded coral shrimp, I've had them before and they look nice and they might do some occasional fish cleaning. My  family thinks that I need a blue fish of some type in there as the rest blend into the rockwork from a distance. I like the regal tangs but they would get too large for my tank and I don't think I would take the risk when it comes to Ich, I think a Bicolour Angel would be more suitable but is it different enough in colouration to not fight with the Poma? <Well, you can usually keep a Centropyge with other genera of angels, but the Centropyge is usually added first. It will be an interesting dynamic-one that you will have to watch very carefully, so that you can intervene if required> I have read nearly all the FAQ's on Bicolours and the major problem seems to be getting them to feed. <In most cases, this is the problem. Careful selection of your specimen, and knowledge of its area of collection can help assure greater success. Hopefully, you'll be able to support the "home team" and get an Australian specimen, which, in my opinion, are of the best quality and are almost always properly collected and handled!> If I made sure to get one that was feeding and then isolate it for 4 or more weeks in quarantine would it make a suitable,  colourful addition to my tank? As always, your advice is greatly appreciated. Yours Sincerely Adam Harbeck <Well, Adam- as I mentioned before, it is certainly possible to mix this fish with the Poma in a sufficiently large tank. However, fish, like people, are individuals, and you never know how they are going to respond. It's just going to be one of those things where you'll have to roll the dice, so to speak. If your tank is large enough, and you have enough rockwork to break up territories, it may be workable. Id put the odds at about 60/40 in favor of it working...Just know what you may be getting into with this combination, and work out an "escape plan" should it become necessary to remove the Bicolor. Good luck! Regards, Scott F.>

Are Shark Eyes a Tasty Angel Treat? (5/26/04) Hello Crew <Steve Allen with you tonight.>, I recently purchased a Queen Angel and a Banded Cat Shark, both were in the same tank and the shark actually hatched in the tank with the Queen Angel. After I purchased them I noticed that the Queen Angel would try to nip at the Sharks eyes. I called the original owner and he said he had never seen this behavior before therefore I gave it some time, but now after a week I still see the same behavior, every time the shark is out and about the angel will slowly go up to it and then try to pick on his eyes which causes the shark to dart underneath a rock. <Very bad. If he gets them, your shark is a goner.> The Angel is 4" and the shark is about 10", they are currently in a 180 gallon tank until my 240 comes back from the shop. There are 4 tangs in the tank but they don't bother the shark at all. I'm afraid that the angel will end up eating his eyes therefore I've put him in my 92 gallon tank. <Yes, smart move.> Is it normal for Angels to do this or do you think the Angel will get over picking at the Shark and what fish would you recommend I keep with a banded cat shark? <Ah, just what is normal really? Sure it's normal. They pick at things that look edible. Most carnivorous animals eat eyes. Have you noticed that the first thing to go on a dead fish is its eyes? In fact, this behavior by large angels toward aquarium sharks is well-known. You should buy "Aquarium Sharks & Rays" by Scott W. Michael. There's a whole chapter about tankmates, including a warning about Queen & other large Angels.> I'm planning on putting a Golden Moray Eel with the Shark, do you think there will be problems? <Morays usually make good tankmates. Buy the book. No shark owner should be without it.>  Thanks. <You're welcome. I hope this helps.> 

Goldflake and Flame Angel Compatibility? 4/5/04 Hi guys ! <howdy!> Anthony....can't wait to see you in Boston.  I will be participating in your coral propagation workshop and hope to learn some good tips and secrets ! <excellent my friend :) > My Question:  I have a 300 gallon reef tank that is currently doing extremely well.  I want to add a Goldflake Angel but I currently have a Flame angel in the tank.  Are these two angels compatible, keeping in mind the size of my tank ? <they will quite possibly do fine together... different sizes, feeding preferences, colors, etc. But only try if you have a stable isolation tank to pull one to if needed> Do you recommend against adding the Goldflake ? <its not an especially hardy angel. There are much better choices, although aggressive <G>> Thanks, Chuck Spyropulos. MACNA Boston !!!!! <sweet. And we can swill some beers and chat about the fascist banning of some good people from various message boards <G>> Anthony>

Half Moon Angel with Cnidarians? Hello, Are there any corals and anemones I can put in my tank that my half moon angel wont eat! I saw a saltwater show tank at (the Sony store) witch had a 5 inch half moon angel and Mushrooms on the live rock together. All of my fish are reef safe in my tank but my angle. I did now this when I got him and I have NO regrets. thank you so much.... <Small, flat corals will be your best chance- such as mushrooms.  Mushrooms also have amazing regenerative properties, so a bite here and there may not prove lethal.  Bottom line is keep these corals cheap!  They may be breakfast.  Ryan>

Angels In A Reef? Hey guys <Hi there! Scott F. your guy tonight!> I am sorry to keep bugging you guys but I don't have access to any other experts!  And you guys are great!!!! <Well, we are hobbyists just like you are- but we are glad to be here for you!> I have an Imperator that has spots on him they look like little dots of lost pigmentation. It doesn't look like a parasite but loss of pigmentation.  He is very active and eats like a pig and is the dominant one in the tank for sure. I have seen this in many imperators that lived for years but what is it?  I have treated the tank lately with CopperSafe, Maracyn, and am currently treating the tank for a fungus (little   white tufts on the tails and fins) with Maroxy. <Quite a "cocktail" of medications in there. In the future, I'd treat with one medication at a time, and only in a dedicated treatment tank or container for maximum control> The infected fish are getting better. The imperator never showed any signs of the fungus but does have these spots!!! <Well, without photos, all I can do is guess, but I have a feeling that what you might be observing is Head and Lateral Line Erosion (HLLE), which is not a "disease: in the true sense, but possibly a response to less than optimal environmental conditions or diet. Theories abound on the cause and "cure" of this malady, and it often goes into a spontaneous "remission" on its own. However, the real "cure" seems to be high quality water conditions and an excellent, varied diet of both plant an animal matter. Other, more exotic theories point towards things like chemical imbalances and even stray voltage in the water. In the end, no fish has ever been hurt by good food and clean water, so why not work on that?> Also I am stocking My 80 gal reef and am wondering if you can put Pygmy Angels in a reef?  Will a fish like a Bicolor or Coral Beauty bother the coral or polyps or worms? <Well- that's the million dollar question in reef-keeping! There are simply no guarantees. Almost any Centropyge angel can begin picking at and/or eating coral polyps and worms. A lot of people (myself included) feel that the Coral Beauty is the "safest" bet in a reef system- I have had one for years and it has never picked on anything- yet! However, just because it is leaving things alone today does not mean that next month, or even tomorrow, the fish won't see your reef as his or her own personal banquet! In the end, I do not recommend keeping Pygmy Angels in a reef system, unless you are willing to accept some possible coral losses. I am a fish geek first, and a coral nerd second, and have access to a lot of replacement coral frags if I need them, so I can accept that risk. You'll have to make the decision as to whether or not it's worth it for yourself!> What other family of fish besides the obvious ones would be good in a reef like a lion? Looking forward to your help on these questions. Thank you. Kirt <Well, Kirt, I am a big fan of many of the smaller wrasses, such as the Halichoeres, Cirrhilabrus, and others. They are extremely colorful, interesting, stay relatively small, and have no interest in your corals! If your tank were larger, you could consider a Genicanthus species of angelfish, as they are planktivores, and will generally not bother corals, either. Lots of other possibilities of "reef compatible" fishes. Just search through the WWM site on various families, and you'll find lots of information. Have fun researching! Regards, Scott F>

Fish combinations (multiple angels) 2/24/04 Hello: I am starting a 120 gallon tank and would like to house a Flame Angel, Emperor Angel, Lemonpeel Dwarf Angel, and various damselfish (all juveniles).  Do you think this combination will work initially in a 120 gallon tank?  <A 120 gallon is big enough for these fish, but it would be a volatile mix.  Dwarf angels are generally intolerant of each other.  The emperor will quickly outgrow them both and could become quite aggressive toward them.> If so, for how long?  <I really discourage making stocking combinations that are predetermined to be temporary.  Often minor aggression is overlooked or removal of animals is delayed to the detriment of the fish.  If you make wiser choices up front, the answer to the question "how long?" should be many, many years.> If not, could you suggest an alternative combination of angelfish that could be housed together with some damselfish in a 120 gallon tank?  <Damsels can actually be beneficial since they act as "dither fish".  They are a distraction from other animals that may be the target of aggression.  I would limit stocking to one dwarf with the emperor.  If you have other specific choices in mind, you can research them here at wetwebmedia.com or ask the crew.> I really appreciate any suggestions you can offer. <Glad to. Hope this was beneficial.  Adam> Best regards, Anthony

Devil in Angel's Clothing?  (Pomacanthus Angel in Reef Tank) Hi Bob.....or Scott <You got me, Scott F.> Its been a long time, but I need you guys big time.   <Well, I'll do my best to help you out!) No one else can give me an answer that I'm happy with.   <Everyone has their own opinion, huh?  Keep in mind, my answer may not be what you want to hear, either.> I'm considering a 4" to 5" P. chrysurus angel as my "alpha" fish in my 180 gallon. <A very elegant fish, however, they do get pretty large and require a lot of space...> I have almost all SPS, clams, Ricordea, some rare zoos, as well. <And...you're actually thinking about putting this angel in your tank?  Oh man, I don't think that's a good idea.> I'm really concerned about the clams, 13 of them.  Lots of bucks invested, but I have always wanted a P. chrysurus angel. <Well, this species, like many large angels, will certainly sample your SPS, clams, and Ricordea.  It does vary from individual to individual, but I would have to say that attempting to keep this fish in a reef tank would be an ill-fated exercise.> Have you guys ever kept this fish with clams? <Honestly, I wouldn't even consider it.> I know each fish is different, but if you guys can help, that would be great.  I set up the aquarium 2 years ago, and thanks to your advice, my tank rules.  You guys rule.  Is it going to be a $1,500.00 bowl of clam chowder, or what?  Thanks a million!  Scott <Well Scott, I think this is an excuse to get another aquarium, dude!  How about a 500 gallon FOWLR for this fish?  Now, that would be something!  You could trade all your clams and corals for the tank.  hah!hah!  Seriously, I would pass on this species.  Have you ever considered a Genicanthus species?  They have no interest in invertebrates and clams.  Just a thought....Regards, Scott F.>

Compatibility of a juvenile emperor angel and an Indian yellow-tail angel I would like to ask about the compatibility of a juvenile emperor angel(2.5") and a 6"  Indian yellow-tail angel.  The yellow-tail angel has been the "king" of the tank and I wonder if I can add a 2.5" emperor angel to the tank of 180 gallons. <Best not to mix to species of angelfish, good luck, IanB>

P. imperator in Reef tank 1/26/04 HI guys......got a question for ya.....currently I have a reef tank with an imperator angel in it (a deadly but awesome combination of course)<Not necessarily.  I have the same and have had next to no problems (it has only bothered Zoanthids), although mine is still a juvi.> and I am  wondering what kind of corals you would recommend to keep with him that he will leave alone.  Currently I have a couple of small leather corals, assorted small mushroom rocks and a star polyp rock.  I am going to rule out SPS altogether assuming these will be picked at, along with most LPS corals as well. <Actually, I would consider SPS to be the safest.  Zoanthids and Xeniids are probably pretty risky as are non-aggressive LPS like Trachyphyllia, Lobophyllia, Blastomussa.  Aggressive LPS like Catalaphyllia and Euphyllia are probably moderate risk.  Most softies are probably 50/50.  The fish will look for the most meat with the least work and least sting.> I want to keep the tank as stocked as possible without buying the imperator a 40 dollar meal.  I bought a flower pot coral today, but I am taking him back tomorrow..........I know, kick me in the butt, impulse buys are the worst, this beauty is better of where he belongs.....in the  ocean...........Thanks for the help.............Jonathan <A good choice to return the Goniopora, not only for it's lack of suitability in captivity in general, but moderate risk with your emperor.  Best regards!  Adam>

Carpet Munching Angel >Is it normal for my juvenile Koran angelfish fish to continually nip at my new (approx 1 week old) green carpet anemone?   >>The angel isn't one week old, he's been in your system one week, yes?  (Oh, I do hope quarantine has been done first!).  Short answer, yes, it's normal.. well, not exactly normal, but not unusual.  Of course, I have honestly never kept a Koran with a carpet anemone. >How is he doing this without getting stung?   >>Not all fish are as susceptible to nematocysts as others, though those of a carpet do pack a punch!  I would either remove the anemone, or the angel.  Do expect the fish to continue until the anemone dies. >He is nipping right at the tentacles.  My Percula clown will not go near the anemone yet.  Do I need to do anything to protect the anemone?     Thanks, Brian F >>You really can't, short of removing one or the other.  The clown WON'T go near the anemone if it's too small to have any hope of driving off the angel.  A tomato, maroon, or skunk clown pair, now they might have something different to say on the matter!  Marina

Angels in distress <Hello! Ryan with you....Can you hear me now?  ;)> I have a 75 gal. tank  with live rock and sand and recently got ick from a new fish that seemed ok, even after 2 weeks. <OK> I lost two angels, but my hippo tang and Sailfin tang are fine , along with the new angel. <Surprising, generally Surgeonfish are more inclined to contract Ich> I want to get the other two angels back into my tank as soon as possible, so the new angel doesn't get too territorial. How will that affect my bio-load since all the fish were fine before this outbreak. <I'd need more info on your setup (biological, mechanical and chemical filtration regime) to give you good advice.>  Since it has been several weeks and the two fish are gone, does the bio-load adjust and putting in new fish is like they were never in there? <The beneficial bacteria you're speaking of diminish with the bio-load.  It's a fairly slow process, but the population is directly correlated to the food source.  This is relationship that you'll see in every body of water in the world!> Or does the bacteria (good) remain in the tank , even if a fish dies? <Yes, but not for long.  I would re-introduce the fish one at a time.  What truly worries me is the idea of three angels in a 75 gallon box of water.  Please read the FAQs concerning adult size of these fish.  In a 75 gallon aquarium, one specimen from a smaller angel would be appropriate.  Please be conscientious about re-stocking your tank!> Thanks for the info,            Cheryl

Adding a Queen? (1/4/2004) Mr. Fenner: <Steve Allen tonight.> Foremost, congrats on an awesome site. <Bob has certainly assembled a wonderful tool here.> I have never asked questions before, but constantly find myself reading different subjects here and have multiple links to this web site that I refer to frequently. Great resource. <I have learned something from it everyday for quite a while.> Now on to my question. I have a 360g tank with a 100g refugium and a 100g sump. <Sweet> The tank is 99% SPS dominated corals with multiple fish ranging from tangs to smaller fish like Firefish and such. <How many. Even this tank can get overstocked.> I have a rather large batfish (Platax tiera) that has been a model citizen in terms of not picking at any corals, fish, or invertebrates. <So far, may nip later. A beautiful fish for a large tank. Hope it continues to thrive.> I know someone that is tearing up his tank and I have the opportunity to inherit his 5.5" queen angel. He tells me he is very docile and does not bother any corals, but I want to know if this s a fish that I can trust to maintain such behavior as it matures. <No; also tends to get mean to other fish to.> Also, is he likely to get along well with my other inhabitants? Will he now or eventually pick on  invertebrates (have multiple types of shrimp)? <Tasty treats.> I read the information on the website, but it did not say anything about reef environments. <Most Angels cannot be truly trusted in reefs. Sounds like you have a wonderful set-up here. In your shoes, I would be careful not to upset the balance. You'll have an awful time trying to get that angel back out if it causes problems. Think carefully about this one.> Thanks, Alberto Perez DiMaggio, MD <Hope this helps.>

- New Half Moon Angel - Hello, Wonderful forum! I have a 210 gallon fish only tank. Stocked with 4 Clownfish, 1 Yellow Tank, 1 Starcki Damsel and assorted inverts. I just added a very healthy half Moon Angel. So far the angel has been picking on the Tang, nipping at her tail. Also had been picking at my Flame Scallop and basically has left the Starcki and the Clowns alone. <The flame scallop is a goner.> The Tang was the "boss" of the tank and has so far given in. Will this harassment likely continue? <No, it will likely even out in some time... the Angel needs to be the boss of the tank, and will take some time to assert this stance.> I have the option to return the fish, or should I just wait it out. <I'd keep it, if otherwise healthy... a very pretty fish.> Thanks you for your input. Best regards Kurt Cleveland, Ohio <Cheers, J -- >

Emperor Angel and Half Moon Angel Would a Emperor and a Half Moon Angel be ok together in a 280 gallon tank? <I would advise against it because I am a firm believer in housing "ONE" large angelfish per aquarium, I have seen to many beautiful angelfish fight to death> selling my tank and trying to find good homes for my fish.  I have a friend that has a 280 with an Emperor in it and I am wanting to give him my Half Moon.  His Emperor is about 4-5" and my Half Moon is 5-6".  Would they be compatible?<Again you could try it. But you would be taking a huge risk (these fish cost a pretty penny "retail"). Its ultimately up to you, But I personally would not take the chance especially if I paid a hundred dollars plus retail for either of these magnificent angelfish, Good luck, IanB> Thanks.

-Tossin' in an Imperator- hello, My LFS has a very healthy 5" adult Imperator Angel in stock now.  They have had it for 3 weeks now.  I am wondering how you think it would do in my tank.  I have: 3-4" Harlequin Tusk 3-4" Naso Tang 2-3" Yellow Eye Kole 2-3" Blue Cheek Trigger They are all housed in a 180 gallon tank.  I have about 200lbs of rock in the system, about 120lbs in the tank.  Any input would be great, even if you believe it is possible by removing one of the other fish. <I think it should work out, so long as neither the Naso or the trigger have become too aggressive. I would suggest a month or longer quarantine and fattening up before adding the angel. Be sure it's eating before you buy it!!! Good luck. -Kevin> Thanks,

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