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FAQs on Centropyge Angelfishes Disease/Health 1

FAQs on Dwarf Angel Disease: Dwarf Angel Disease 1, Dwarf Angel Disease 2, Dwarf Angel Disease 3, Angels and Butterflyfishes & Crypt,
FAQs on Dwarf Angel Disease by Category: Diagnosis, Environmental, Nutritional, Social, Trauma, Pathogenic, Genetic, Treatments

Related Articles: Centropyge Angels, C. loricula/Flame Angel, Lemon/y Dwarf Angels, A Couple of Lemons; the True and False/Herald's (nee Woodheadi) Centropyges, Potter's Angels, Reef Safari! Keeping Multibarred Angelfish By Alexander Thomasser,

Related FAQs: Best FAQs on Centropyge, Centropyge Angels 1, Centropyge Angels 2Centropyge Angels 3, Centropyge Angels 4, Dwarf Angel Identification, Dwarf Angel Selection, Dwarf Angel Compatibility, Dwarf Angel Systems, Dwarf Angel Feeding, Dwarf Angel Reproduction,

Angelfishes for  Marine Aquariums
Diversity, Selection & Care

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by Robert (Bob) Fenner

- Treating Pop-eye - I have a coral beauty with pop eye. Having read up on this it seems to be an injury. He is eating well and behaving normally.  <Ahh good, good signs.> I have read your FAQ's and just want to ask some specific questions.  I do not have a separate tank and would like to treat in my main tank. its a 55gal.  <Should be able to treat in place provided no one is hassling this fish. He needs peace and quiet.> I do a 20% water change every 3 weeks and my water quality is good. In my tank I have A bubble tip Anemone, several kinds of shrimp, flame scallop live rock, yellow tang, cinn clown, damsels, several varieties of star fish hermit crabs, feather dusters, snails, clams, will the Epsom salt harm any of these???  <No, should be safe to use in small amounts.> Also would I add the Epsom salt right to the tank or do I need to dissolve it first????  <I would dissolve it first in a glass of tank water.> Once added will it effect my Specific gravity much???  <I can if you add too much.>  & Should I compensate for this???  <Not for now, but good to run the tests anyway. Cheers, J -- >

- Coral Beauty Questions - Hi.  I would like to thank you with the info I needed for my 1" baby regal tang. Well anyways, I have a Coral Beauty that I had for maybe 3 or 4 months now its doing great. Not until this evening where I saw the fins on the angel seem to be like tiny rips on its fin. He is eating and all and also I saw on his anus that there was a green spot that had "bubbles" on it. I'm not sure if it was his poo or whatever it is. <You are most likely correct in this assessment.> There is only a coral banded shrimp is it possible that the shrimp is nibbling on it. <Possible, but not likely.> Are these kind of shrimps aggressive? <Among shrimps, yes... but rarely against fish.> And I spotted that sometimes the shrimp is near the Angel. <Wouldn't be concerned. Fish often abrade a fin or two while swimming in and out of places. Will heal in time... you can aid by adding good fish-vitamins to its food. Boyd's Vita Chem seems to really help torn fins heal.> I checked all of my water parameters and everything was great checked the temp same as usual 76F. He has never had this problem before and I hope he doesn't do it again. <No worries.> Thanks bye
<Cheers, J -- > 

Large white spot on Coral Beauty 12/16/04 Can you please tell me what this spot is on one side of my coral beauty?  It appeared today and he's now swimming awkwardly - often on his side. <It looks like a physical abrasion.  Most heal fine of their own, but do watch for signs of infection.  If it appears to get worse or infected, consider moving the fish to a hospital tank for treatment.> FYI, I have a 75 gallon, 25 lbs of live rock, 2 dozen scarlet reef hermits, 1 sand sifting star, 1 coral banded shrimp, and just added a clarkii with an unidentified anemone (my wife surprised me but doesn't recall what is was called, oh boy).  I'll attach a picture of the new additions as well.  Thanks in advance, you seem to be so much help to so many people! Matt <The anemone could be a "Sebae" or Condylactis, it is hard to tell from the pic.<<Is very likely a Sebae, Heteractis crispa. RMF>>  If it is a Sebae, it is bleached.  Recovery is about 50/50.  Be sure to feed it a marble sized piece of fish, shrimp or shellfish every few days until it regains color.  For a quick guess on the ID, consider cost.  Condylactis usually cost less than $10, while Sebaes are usually over $30.  Do consult "Anemone Fishes and Their Host Sea Anemones" by Fautin and Allen or some other good reference to confirm the ID. Best Regards. AdamC.>

Coral Beauty Sick. Hey Bob <<Hi Javier>> I have a 50 gallon saltwater tank running for over a year now and have not had any problems after a rough start. The tank has now stabilized and have not lost any fish in 9 months. The levels are good and I do bi-weekly water changes, keeping the temp @ 81 degrees and salinity at 1.020. I have 70 lbs of live rock and sand, a canister filter and protein skimmer.  <<What are the test results, this might help.>> The my stock consist of a yellow tang, a maroon clown, a coral beauty and some small fish (Chromis/Firefish). I feed them brine shrimp (frozen & live), formula 2 flakes, Wardley's marine flake food, Sera iodine enriched granulated food and Nutrafin Max food to keep their diet varied. About two days ago I noticed that my Coral Beauty was acting kinda strange just hovering near the LR without much movement. (Very unlike him). But I went about my routine of feeding them. Normally at feeding time all the fish dart around and head up to the surface and a frenzy takes place once I drop the food in. Everything went as expected except for the Coral Beauty. He did seem to be interested in going after the food, but once near it he just went for it, looked at it and just swam away.  Later that night I noticed him in the bottom right of the tank under some rock covering just chilling. (Having a private party). Having my tank for awhile I know each of my fish's behavior at feeding time, at night, w/light on or off, when frightened, during a territory dispute. and where each turns in for the night. Yesterday he was in the same spot at the bottom right of the tank under the LR covering pointing up and tail down. He looks like he has some white film forming on his mouth/lips? A fungus or bacteria?  <<Likely bacteria, but could be fungus. Please see: http://www.wetwebmedia.com/infectio.htm>> Please help. I did add some Melafix to the tank. Does this stuff really work, a waste of money or bad idea? What is your recommendation? Setting up a hospital tank for quarantine or let him ride it out and not stress him more? Javier <<Melafix is likely not necessary or useful. These problems are the result of poor water quality, nutrition, overall environment. I suggest water changes, green herbivorous foods daily (live rock with algae/microalgae is ideal). Please do follow and read the link above and also go to the FAQ's. Best of luck, Craig>> 
Re: Coral Beauty Sick. T
hanks, <<You're always welcome Javier.>> I'll check the water parameters again. I did one a week ago and they were normal. None of the other fish seem to be bothered or show signs of illness. I do a water change every two weeks. How much of a water change to you recommend? (Currently 75 lbs of LR & LS). So in volume I may have about 35 gallons? <<Depends on load, type of inhabitants. You have quite a few fish so likely somewhere in the 25-30% range, but this is dependent on many factors, husbandry, feeding, etc. I would assume your volume to be 40 gal.>> On a separate note, I notice strange creature in my tank. I have never seem it before in my tank and have not added any LR or LS since my initial set-up, which was cured. It is the size and of a quarter, flat and somewhat of a circular shape. It is black in color and moves like a slug or snail with two small tentacles/feelers. In the center of the body it has a small white slit, cat eye in look. Once I hit the lights if moved to the dark under the live rock. <<Hard to tell w/o a photo, and maybe not then either! Likely a snail, Trochus, Nudibranch, or limpid. Try this: http://www.tcnj.edu/~maughme2/faq.htm  Yours, Craig>>

Acclimating Coral Beauty Hello Bob, I have on four occasions now tried to stock coral beauty's in my store but have always had very limited success getting them to feed. I have tried pretty much all of the prepared foods we stock. Do you have any recommendations on getting these guys started? <Yes... in well-established systems with plenty of healthy live rock... and a live sump/refugium in addition if possible. They nibble on algae, sponges, sea squirts in the wild...> All of the ones we received have been from QM and looked great on arrival. I have had great success with other supposedly less hardy dwarf species and am close to putting coral beauties on my "Do Not Order". <It may be that you're spot on here... the source your supplier is using may be "bunk" for this species. If you can, avoid ones from Indonesia and the Philippines... pay more for better specimens from elsewhere in the West-, South-Pacific. Bob Fenner> Thanks, Richard

Dwarf Angels, Copper Treatments I'm sorry to keep bugging you.  <<No worries.>>  Do I need to adjust copper dosage for dwarf angels or just proceed with normal dosage.  <<I wouldn't unless this particular fish is especially small and potentially a juvenile. Even then, I wouldn't reduce it by much.>>  Thanks Rich. <<Cheers, J -- >>

Re: Coral Beauty trouble Bob, Thanks for the advice yesterday, your advice was comforting. Could you tell me what I should feed the Coral Beauty once he is back to health? I know it will eat algae off of my live rock but could you tell me if it will eat meaty foods or if it needs Nori and/or Formula Two. Is the Coral Beauty like the Yellow Tang in the way of having getting HLLE if not given enough greens? <Not so susceptible to this largely nutritional complaint. This Dwarf Angel does eat a great deal of algae and assorted sponges, ascidians (hence the use of live rock in their systems), and do learn to take many types of prepared and frozen foods in captivity. Please read through the Centropyge Angel sections posted on WWM including the FAQs files, starting here: http://www.wetwebmedia.com/marine/fishes/angels/centropyge/index.htm  Bob Fenner> Thanks again, Amy

Stocking densities... (wrasse selection, and Centropyges, dipping, life) Bob, Thanks for the quick reply. I had a few follow-up and unrelated questions. In the smaller tank, I'm thinking of keeping a derasa clam. Which one of the three (Wrasses/dotty) would you recommend for parasitic snail and/or Bristleworm control? <Please read here: http://www.wetwebmedia.com/pseudocheilinus.htm and the FAQs linked beyond, the sections on Tridacnids...> In the larger tank, I was following the capacity outlines of M. Paletta in the new marine aquarium- 2" of fish /gallon of capacity.  <I think this may be way off... Mike may have offered the "rule of thumb" of 1/2" maximum per gallon...> Given that I should easily be able to keep a 12" angel and tankmates. Is it a territory issue or is Paletta wrong with what he is saying? <You are interpreting a generality beyond it's utility... think of two versus three dimensionality... a given length of organism needs more space than its inches subdivided into increments... e.g. 12 one inch fishes are metabolically less than one 12 inch individual...> Also, with a six foot long tank, would I be able to keep 2-3 Centropyge angels?  <Likely so... of most species... they will interact, but given enough nooks, crannies, shouldn't cause any real damage to each other> I know they tend to fight, but I figured with that size tank, and enough rock work it should be O.K. I was thinking of a Hawaiian/Polynesian biotope with a flame and a potter's along with a Centropyge to be named later.  <Sounds like you've been doing your investigating> I would add native tangs, butterflies, a Picasso trigger, and a snowflake moray- any general problems with the design so far? <Not as far as I'm aware> Now for the unrelated questions- Can you recommend a good livestock source in the St. Louis area?  <Mmm, not familiar with the town, but do have a suggestion: post your question on the Chatforum: http://wetwebfotos.com/talk/ under the "Internet/Local Fish Store" category> They all seem to contradict themselves, and I don't know who to believe.  <Only yourself> One of them told me that you cannot use protein skimmer with the miracle mud product. Any truth to this?  <No... no truth... as in "what has been done"... The owner of this company (Leng Sy) and I are friends and discuss this "to be or not to be" issue quite often... mud/muck systems can be run with skimmers... better to under skim, or run in a punctuated fashion (on/off a few hours per day) IMO/E> He also told me that he has never been able to carry out a successful fresh water dip, and that quarantining is a bad idea as you stress the fish out twice. <Some validity to these statements as exceptions... but, by and large, these techniques/practices are of tremendous utility. Put another way, the vast majority of cases, individuals benefit tremendously through their employ> So far, he's somewhat low on the credibility scale. However, another shop told me to always dip my live rock in fresh water to eliminate bristle worms, crabs, and other pests. I would think you would ruin the rock by doing this. As you can see, I'm in a bit of a quandary. <But you're thinking... very exciting. Do consider all these opinions and ours/mine... and look further at the base rationale, factual understanding to all's points in making up your own mind.> Thanks again, and the website is great! Chris <Thank you, Bob Fenner>

Coral Beauty Currently I have a Coral Beauty that I have acquired about a week and a half ago.  Two to three days after, I noticed that the fish had Ich and so I had treated it with something the fish store had recommended.  Looks like the Ich went away within a day or two after putting in the medication in the tank.  Now its eyes look kind of bulging and cloudy.  I'm still treating the tank for the Ich but what would you recommend for the eyes? <It is probably a secondary infection of some sort. When you have both eyes bulging and cloudy, it is most likely the disease known as (no surprise here) Popeye. This malady is usually caused by bacteria, and usually is indicative of water conditions which need to be improved. This can also be brought on by parasites, but is less likely.  There is even the outside possibility that the "treatment" has caused this problem- but not likely. Treatment can be as simple as improving water quality in the treatment tank (you are treating in a separate aquarium, right? If not- you should be!), or, in many cases, treating with medication such as Maracyn. I never advise the casual "dumping" of medication into the tank-sometimes this does more harm than good! Do check the FAQs on disease on the WetWebMedia.Com site and verify if the fish does indeed have this disease, then take appropriate action. You should be able to save this fish with prompt treatment. Good luck! Scott F.> Is there something I can do to save the fish? Thanks, Mary Gonzalez

Coral Beauty Woes Hello crew member of the day. <Scott F. this evening> I have several  questions regarding a Coral Beauty I just lost.  I have a 55 gallon FOWLR with a Fluval 304, a protein skimmer, two cleaner shrimp, three fish (purple Pseudochromis, percula clown, and tomato clown, {and a late Coral Beauty}) and a few snails. My water parameters are pH8.3, temp 79, NH3 0, NO2 0, NO3 <10 ppm, Alk 10,salinity 1.023. <All sound okay> I bought the Coral Beauty a few weeks ago and kept it in a 20 gallon long quarantine tank by itself with a three pound piece of cured live rock for grazing.  I had no treatment in the Q-tank but the fish looked healthy with no spots and no trouble breathing and was eating the Formula two food I was feeding it like a monster. I put him in my main tank after two weeks of quarantine and he looked healthy for the first few days. <I'm very happy that you quarantine your new arrivals! But please make it a minimum of 3 weeks from now on, okay? This allows times for many diseases to manifest themselves before getting into your main system> This past Thursday, I noticed one small white spot pop up on his side.  I watched him very closely and he did not change his behavior and no more spots arose so I thought no problem that this may just be a piece of sand or dead skin. Yesterday, my cleaner shrimp jumped on the Coral Beauty and the fish opened his gills and mouth and the shrimp helped him for about ten minutes. The fish actually laid down in the sand while the shrimp worked.  Today, the Coral Beauty would not eat and would just drift over on its side. After observing this, I put CopperSafe in the bare 20 gallon quarantine tank and moved the Coral Beauty to try and help but I was too late.  I was shocked how quickly this Coral Beauty went down with no white spots showing up on the exterior of the fish.  I was cautious about premature treating for one spot and now feel terrible. Do you think I can conclude this was a work of Ich with the fish having one white dot show up and the fact that the cleaner shrimp spent so much time in the fishes gills? <Very hard to say from here, but your keen observation of the cleaning process leads me to believe it was some sort of parasitic malady. As you can see, diseases can manifest themselves even after a couple of weeks of quarantine, and don't always show dramatic signs. The reason for his death could have been something else entirely, for all we know. I think you did a great job of taking prompt action with him when he looked ill. Sometimes, despite our best efforts, a fish can die all to quickly?> I also have a few more related questions.  Now, my quarantine tank has 20 gallons of water treated with CopperSafe this morning and had a fish I presume died from Ich in it for several hours. If I go buy another fish tomorrow, add it to the quarantine tank, and let it stay there for 28 days, can I assume it will not be able to contract Ick and will be safe to add to my main tank?   <Good question, but please don't assume that a new fish cannot become ill in this tank. After every use, whether medication is used or not, you should break down the quarantine tank and disinfect it and any equipment used with it. Then you can set it up again. Remember, a quarantine tank need not be a permanent feature. Simply set it up when you need it.> Also, should I move my three fish from my 55 gallon tank that was shared with the sick Coral Beauty to the quarantine tank for preventive treatment with copper since it is already set up, or should I observe their behavior and move them only if needed? <Another excellent question! If you are convinced that Ich was the cause of the Coral Beauty's death, then you would be wise to isolate your remaining fish in the quarantine tank. However, I would observe them in quarantine rather than just medicate. Copper is effective, but it can be hard on fish; don't use it unless absolutely necessary. I'd break down and reset the quarantine tank, then place the remaining fish in it for observation. The main system will go "fallow", free of potential hosts for the Ich parasite for 3-4 weeks, and the parasite population (if present) will most likely "crash" during that time for lack of hosts. Better to err on the side of caution, IMO- Ich can be tough to get out of your tank once it establishes a foothold.> Is it true that as long as they were healthy when I added the Coral Beauty and I do not stress them now, they will not be attacked by Ick? <Likely, but not guaranteed- hence my recommendation to quarantine/observe them.> IF I buy another Coral Beauty, should I quarantine them with copper as a preventative? <I would not use copper as a preventative. I like the idea of properly executed freshwater dips and observation for 3 weeks. Medicate if necessary.> I also have a question about a Yellow Tang.  I would love to buy a yellow tang but am confused about how to quarantine them.  In The Conscientious Marine Aquarist, Bob says for the yellow tang just do a freshwater dip with no copper or medications.  Does this mean no quarantine at all or do a freshwater dip and then quarantine for several weeks with no treatment and then go the main display tank? <No- he does mean quarantine the fish- just don't use copper as a preventative. Use the dip in conjunction with quarantine.> Can you use copper with the Yellow tang as a preventative? Is that bad news? <As above. Tangs have digestive fauna which can be damaged by prolonged exposure to copper, which is why Bob recommends only using it if the fish is actually ill. If the digestive fauna are damaged severely enough, the fish could die. Tangs, as you know, are big eaters and need to graze continuously.> Thanks for all your help.  I just don't want to lose any more fish! Amy <Your questions, observations, and attitude are outstanding! Just make the minor changes that I suggested and you should be fine! Don't let the loss of the Coral Beauty discourage you. Learn all that you can from this sad episode, and you will continue to be a successful aquarist! Good luck!  Scott F.>

Needles, Fish Bob, What do you know about treating fish which have been needled instead of decompressed?  <No real difference... it is hoped that the small puncture through the animals' integument, muscle, body cavity, gas bladder will heal of its own accord (which is generally the case... given no other damage... to organs...)... just "excellent care, good water quality"> I am particularly curious about this subject in regards to C. Joculator. Is there anyway to combat the miserable survival record of this fish? <Am curious... this is Canthigaster you're referring to? This genus (Sharpnose Puffers) actually has a very good survival history from capture to shipping... and is rarely needled... most are caught in shallow waters, brought to the surface with minimal decomp. time. What data do you have to indicate otherwise? Bob Fenner> Thanks, Josh
Re: Needles, Fish
Bob, Sorry...I was referring to Centropyge joculator.  <Oh... different species, spelling> Everyone has been telling me that their Jocs have been dying one to three weeks after being imported, usually from some sort of bacterial infection. <Not unusual... this isn't a very tough dwarf angel from the wild... Bob Fenner, who suggests wholesalers (and most retailers) run their Centropyge through a furan bath on arrival, and isolate/quarantine all for sale for two weeks> Thanks, Josh

Strange Angel Color Change Dear Bob and Crew: <Scott F. with you this evening> I am sad to report that my pygmy angel is losing his  dark blue coloration on his body and the yellow "under color" is showing through.  It's like he is shedding - that's what I'd call it if he were a dog or cat.  We have had him for nine months, got him full grown so I don't know how old he is.  He is eating and swimming as usual and this color thing just started this afternoon.  His tankmates appear to be fine. Water stats: Salinity:  28  (specific gravity 1.0215),Alkalinity 3.2, Ammonia 0,Nitrates 0, Calcium 450 ppm Please let me know if **he is sick or what.  He has no spots on him, but as he is from the sea and not tank bred he could have parasites that I don't know about.   Connie Cavan PS =: As I finish this note, his color appears normal again.  What is going on.????  Hope Bob, you can help, he is named after you.!!! <Wow, Connie, any fish named after Bob deserves our best...! I'm a bit curious about this color change; there could be a number of reasons and causes. First, I am assuming that you are referring to Centropyge argi, the "Cherub Angelfish", or Centropyge acanthops, the "Flameback Angelfish" (Do check the wetwebmedia.com site for FAQ's and articles on the genus Centropyge for a firm ID on your fish)? The reason that I ask is that both of these fish are basically dark blue with yellowish "faces", and, in the case of C. acanthops, a yellow dorsal region. As such, these are normal color variations. However, a sudden color change could be anything from a stress reaction to the onset of "Head And Lateral Line Erosion" ("HLLE"), which is thought to be a "disease" brought on by dietary or environmental deficiencies. Without seeing this for myself, I'd have to go out on a limb and say that it's probably some kind of stress or fright reaction, especially when you consider that he was eating well and that the color returned quickly. In the absence of other obvious disease symptoms, I'm going to suggest that you continue to observe him, provide excellent water conditions, and a varied diet rich in vegetable matter. Monitor the environmental factors regularly, and be prepared to act should some more serious disease symptoms arise. Let us know if we can be of any further assistance! Good luck! Scott F>
Angel Shifting Color (Pt. 2)
Hi again Bob and crew: <Scott F. here this afternoon> Bob is a Centropyge argi and when we got him nine months ago we didn't know that he was an adult.  He hasn't grown at all since we got him.  He is swimming and eating today, but is no longer speeding around the tank.  As I don't know how old he is, I can't be sure, but isn't it possible that he is dying from old age? <Always a possibility, but I think that you'd notice a gradual decline in health and activity if this were the case> He has slowed down tremendously in just one day and his mouth is open slightly. He still shows interest in chasing the dithers, but not like before.  Our tank is in prime condition, we have live rock and all sorts of critters that have grown from them.  I do a 10 gallon water change once a week and it's a 60 gallon tank.  I don't see any signs of lateral line disease. However, I feel it's possible that he has parasites, as he is from the sea. <Well, the fact that his mouth is partially agape is of some concern. I think that some type of parasitic infection is possible, but hard to tell from here. I assume that he showed no signs of infection during quarantine?> We have a royal Gramma we got about the same time from the same place and she was also fully-grown, so we have no idea how old "she" is either. I don't want to stress him further by removing him (HA) from his environment, but if you think I should be treating him for that I don't know how to do it except to remove him.  I don't think he is strong enough to weather removal into our "emergency room" 10 gallon tank. Catching him would be something else, but certainly would remove all rocks etc. if you think he should be treated.. <Wow- tough call here. What I would do is pour over the disease FAQs and resources here on wetwebmedia.com and see if there are any pics of a fish with the condition that you've noticed. I certainly don't recommend just throwing medication into the tank (or QT tank, for that matter), so I think that, in the absence of other disease signs (i.e.; rapid breathing, obvious spots, fin tears, etc), I'd observe him a little longer. If these unusual symptoms persist, and the fish appears to be on the decline, you should remove him to your hospital tank for more observation, and possibly treatment for whatever condition you get a positive ID on. I am always concerned for the other fish in a tank where one might be Ill.. sometimes everyone needs to be removed for observation or treatment, as is the case with Ich.> You can see our test results of our water in my first note.   I should add that we use ROWAphos, along with 2 carbon filters in our Fluval 404. We >have been using it for 3-4 months and it has really helped the quality of our water. I'd appreciate any comments you have on this. <Not familiar with this product, but your H20 quality seemed high last time> >We also have a CPR skimmer and two powerheads. Am not crazy about the CPR, but aside from wanting to replace it in the future, everything in the tank is fine except Bob.  We have a low bioload and have never had water problems since we got the phosphates  well under control. <It sounds like he may need to be removed for some TLC in the QT tank soon. You'll have to make the call on this one, unfortunately! Sorry to be so long-winded, but nothing has scared him, he is king of the tank, and with his color back he looks fine,  but he really has slowed down. Thanks for your time and effort. Connie Cavan <Thanks for writing, Connie-keep me posted...Wish that there was more I could tell you at this point...Regards,  Scott F.>
Angel Losing Color
Dear Scott: It's me again re: Bob.  He seemed to pick up energy as the day went along, but tonight during feeding he lost his color, but it almost immediately came back. This is the second time this has happened (that I have noticed). He was in quarantine for about a month and he was fine.  Several months later I noticed a long white fecal kind of thing coming out of him and he scraped it off on a rock. I have read Fenner's book and picked up from that book that most wild fish do have some kind of parasite. This was several months ago and he has been fine ever since.  His mouth is no longer agape but his color fading and then returning so quickly is really weird.  His tank mates, the royal Gramma, 2 immature clowns and 3 baby Chromis, all seem fine.  The clowns are tank bred but all the others are from the ocean. I guess this will play itself out, but if you or any of the crew have any ideas on this I would appreciate hearing. Thanks much for your concern. Connie Cavan <Well Connie- this certainly is interesting, to say the least! It seems unlikely that a parasite from the wild would still be manifesting itself this far down the line...Not impossible, but unlikely. With regard to the "color loss and return" thing, I still think that there is some sort of stress or mood related color change going on here.  Could even be a day/night color shift...If this is a regular occurrence, you might look for some type of factor here- like harassment from one of the other fishes, a territorial dispute. anything that could trigger some sort of stress reaction in this fish. Again, in the absence of further, or obvious, disease symptoms of some sort, I'd still be inclined to keep an eye on him, with the intent to take immediate action if disease does manifest itself. Hang in there-keep observing! Good luck! Scott F.>

Treating a Flame Angel for Ich Hello.  I have a flame angel in quarantine that I just got two days ago.  The fish looked and acted fine at the LFS,  with no signs of illness.  But yesterday he developed Ich and wouldn't eat any flakes or frozen brineshimp.  Your site seems to recommend the use of copper as a treatment, but I have heard that flame angels do not do well with copper because it eats away at their internal organs.  I can't seem to find any information on the procedure for using hyposalinity effectively.  Since the flame angel isn't eating, I don't think that garlic would work.  Should I go ahead and treat with copper?  I'm at a loss... any help would be greatly appreciated. Thanks in advance. Lisa    <Hey Lisa, good call using the QT tank.  You are correct, copper is not good for dwarf angels.  Try treating with a formalin based medication and freshwater dips.  -Gage>

Potter's Angel Hi, all, Thanks to Bob for his quick reply yesterday about possible disease on a potter's angel at my LFS. Moving on to potter's angels in general, WetWebMedia's information on them lists them as very difficult fish; I was curious specifically what the experience with them was. Scott Michaels actually lists them as hardy as any of the Centropyge. <He's wrong here. Less than one percent live more than a couple of months from capture> However, word of mouth indicates that are one of the touchier Centropyge species but I was curious as to just how touchy. In your FAQs, there are hints that these fish seem to do well and then just keel over. I'm familiar with two kinds of "touchy" when it comes to fish: the basic type where the fish just never does well from day one (like leopard wrasses ;-) and the second kind where they may seem to be doing reasonably well but long term there is a chance they will drop dead for little apparent reason or go into irreversible decline after seeming to do well for months. <This species falls into both categories> I had thought that the potter's fell into the first category but your FAQ suggests but isn't explicit that it is more the latter. I ask specifically because the fish we discussed yesterday seems to be behaving quite well (active grazing, aggressive eating of Mysids and Formula II) which suggests that he will probably make it short term but if the risk with these fish is more long term health, that doesn't necessarily mean anything. I've kept a number of Centropyge in the past (argi, fisheri, flame, coral beauty and others) but never a potter's so I have no direct experience with them. Marc <Once again, hopefully with more clarity. If there was a person to take on this apparently very good specimen, it's you Marc. Bob Fenner>
Re: Potter's Angel
Hi, Bob, <Marc> Thanks for the comments about the Potter's angel (and the kind words). I saw a response in your daily FAQ but never got the email for some reason. <Bizarre...> In any case, I've purchased the Potter's angel and will try to see if I can make a good home for it. I'll let you know if the nodules turn into anything interesting or fade quickly. <Real good> One of your FAQ entries indicated a survival rate for these guys after a few months in the single digit rate so from an ethical point of view this was a bit of a conundrum. I don't doubt that the fish is better off in a more experienced hobbyist's hands but if the survival rate is really that low, it makes some sense to never purchase them period, to discourage retailers in stocking them. But I've always loved the look of the fish and don't have the heart to pass on it so here goes. <Understood. And agreed... if some folks didn't take risks, try "difficult" species we would be nowhere... Am so old (relative to the hobby, okay, the planet as well) that I can remember when no one could keep "wild" angels (Pterophyllum, freshwater) alive, then discus... corals... Bob Fenner> Thanks again, Marc

When Life Gives You Lemonpeels.. Hello, I recently purchased a 2 inch lemon peel angel, a medium size powder blue tang & an arch eye Hawkfish. I put them all in my 20 gallon long QT. <Great procedure!> All three fish began eating well after about 2 days, especially the tang. I noticed the lemon peel rubbing itself on the bottom of the tank, but I didn't see any signs of spots on any of the fish, so I disregarded it until it continued for a couple of days. There were still no spots, but fearing Ich (at the encouragement of my local supplier) I treated the tank with copper, SeaCure to be specific. <Well, if it is Ich, it was not a bad move...but may have been premature> Almost immediately the lemon peel stopped eating. The very next night I read an article about lemon peel angels being hyper sensitive to copper. <Centropyge angels do tend to be sensitive to copper treatment. You should monitor copper levels very carefully when using this treatment with any fish, of course> I didn't do anything initially thinking it might be ok, but the angels eyes became hazed over. I immediately did approximately 35% water change and put in a poly filter to try and draw out the copper. I added the copper on Saturday, did the water change on Monday & by Tuesday his eyes were back to normal, but today is Wednesday and I haven't seen him eat since Saturday and he seems to stay in the top corner of the tank near the heater all the time. He looks fine and is not even rubbing any longer, but I wonder how long he can last without eating. I've tried Spirulina pellets, marine supreme, flakes for angels, even brine shrimp. The other 2 fish are eating fine, however I did notice the tang rubbing on the bottom today. I guess what I'm asking is what would you do concerning the angel not eating and treating for Ich and for how long. They've been in QT for 10 days and no visible spots. I was thinking of using formalin, but how long should I wait because of the copper. I also now know I should have never tried to introduce 3 fish  at one time !!!! Thank You, Gary <Well- Gary- you're sure learning a lot from this! At this point, I'd continue to execute regular (2 or 3 times a week) small water changes in the QT tank. Keep trying to get this guy to eat. It may take a while. You also might want to introduce a vitamin supplement, such as Vita Chem, into the QT tank. Since marine fishes do drink, this may provide some nutritional "encouragement" for the angel, until he comes around and start seating. I'd hold off on any further medication unless the need arises. Keep a very close eye on things, and I'm sure that the fish can recover. Best Regards, Scott F>

SICK FLAME ANGEL I just purchased a flame angel from the most reputable fish dealer on the net. Fish looked great in the bag, very bright red. Unfortunately, I had to move the aquascape after I released him into the tank. I did not quarantine the fish because it is the only fish in the 75 gallon tank and based on where the fish is from I've never needed to<You always need quarantine even if it is the only fish in the tank. > I now see where I was wrong. After 24 hours, the fish is pale white on the sides and scratching against rocks like a madman. It has no apparent Ich spots on fins. Do I need to set up a quick quarantine tank, stress him out further, or is there a chance that him being the only fish in a tank that big he can kick it on his own with time?< Leave him where he is for now but if he does start to show spots he will need to be treated in a separate tank and your main tank will need to go fishless for at least four weeks, a cleaner shrimp would be beneficial > All levels are zero, and he has absolutely no competition. He picks at the liverock, but won't even chase Mysis shrimp. I'm really in a bind because this fish is so beautiful. It's a tiger striped variation of the flame. HELP! <Try feeding him an angel preparation such as the one made by Ocean Nutrition.  Please read through the pages highlighted in blue below for more info on quarantine and the flame angel. http://www.wetwebmedia.com/quaranti.htmad http://www.wetwebmedia.com/marine/fishes/angels/centropyge/loricula.htm Hope this helps, Cody>

Re: Lemon peel Is it common for these fish to lay on their sides. Mine keeps going between the live rock and lays down on it's side. At first I thought it was cute now I'm concerned. Thanks <I've kept dwarf angels before and have found that some of them "rest" leaning on live rock.  But never for long, they are mostly active.  Is yours breathing heavy?  Is it eating/what are you feeding it?  What else is in the tank?  The Lemon peel Angel needs a tank with established live rock.  As they like to graze it looking for food.  If it's laying flat on its side I take this to be a sign of distress and would test the water to see if everything is really in order.  Hope this helps!  Phil>

Fading Angel? Hello guys: <Scott F. your guy today!> Thanks for the great site (I'd like to rant on, but I really need some advice quickly.) <No problem!> I have had a Centropyge eibli (about 3") for about a month now.  I really love her (well it acts like a "her" to me!!)  spunk, intelligence, and beauty. <Yep- definitely a chick...LOL> Unfortunately, I have not been able to get her to eat enough of the food that I offer.  I have tried Formula One, both of the major Angel mixes that I know of, flake food, and my own formula of fresh seafood and Kombu/Nori.  I even tried the "freshly opened clam trick" from Bob's book, but she was not interested. My tank has been set up for about seven months and has some algae and detritus accumulation that she munched on during the day, so I thought she must be getting enough to eat that way.  Now, I'm not so sure.  Tank water parameters are good as far as my test kit will read.   <Well, if she is nibbling on some detritus and algal material, that's a good start, but she probably needs to get some other, more nutritious foods for long-term health> This morning I could not find her and she had jammed herself under an overhang and wouldn't come out. I finally coaxed her out, but she is acting totally lethargic (kind of swimming as if she were a little drunk).  I don't see any other marks on her (yesterday she looked and acted fine except a bit more shy than most days).  The other fish seem fine.  I moved her to my refugium earlier.  It is completely overgrown with all kinds of goodies.  But now she is not nibbling on anything.   <Not a good sign here. Observe her carefully now.> The only other real change has been that I added some "Fiji frilly" Corallimorphs. <I doubt that there is any correlation between the addition of the Corallimorphs and the behavior that you are witnessing> I am afraid that she is dying and was wondering if you guys had any advice for emergency action that I might try?  Could the new 'Shrooms have poisoned the tank with something that does not show up on the ammonia testing?  Are Centropyge particularly sensitive to this in some way?   <Always a possibility, but seems unlikely. In my opinion, Centropyge angels do not appear to be any more sensitive to metabolic poisoning than any other fish, but that does not mean that they are invincible! Do re-check water parameters regularly> If it is lack of nutrition, is it too late? <Well, it's never too late, if you can get him to eat. You may even want to use some liquid vitamins in the water, such as Vita Chem, which the fish may absorb by drinking...Perhaps this may provide some supplemental nutrition and stimulate the fish to eat> Sorry if these are silly questions, but I don't know how else to ask.  This is so sudden!  Damn I hate to think of losing this beautiful fish!  Please let me know.  Thanks again for all your help and this incredibly valuable resource. Greg PS:  I'm not sure where she was collected from.  Could this be cyanide poisoning, or would that have shown itself earlier? <Well, if it is cyanide poisoning, the fish would have probably died shortly after its first meal, and would have displayed some disoriented behaviors, and unusually bright colors, too. It could, however, be a delayed result of collection trauma, or some type of internal disorder. Check all environmental parameters again, and correct any that need it. I'd suggest removing her back to the quarantine tank for further observation, and possible treatment, if it becomes necessary...Good luck with this fish! Regards, Scott F>
Fallen Angel (Pt. 2)
Scott F. (or whomever for the follow-up): <Scott F. again today> Thanks for the response.  Unfortunately, she died sometime last night. I tried adding a bit of vitamins and a little Selcon to her water, but to no avail. <I'm really sorry to hear that> I really wish I knew what was wrong for sure and whether the other fish might also be in danger.  I rechecked all the water parameters and they seem good (0 amm. -0 nitrite -5 nitrate).  She had no outward sign of illness (at least nothing overt that I have encountered or read about). I think that her overall body color (aside from her markings) may have been a bit darker gray than usual yesterday, if that tells you anything. I feel terrible because I believe that she probably starved to death, but I tried to get her to eat everything that my experience/reading told me she might like.  (With/without garlic...with/without Selcon.)  She would never do more than eat a bite or so.  More often, she would "sniff" the food and turn away.  (Except that she did munch on the live rock/detritus.) <So many possibilities...really hard to ascertain exactly what the cause was. Many times, as mentioned previously, delayed traumas resulting from the rigors of transport and acclimation to captivity result in the fish refusing food...You did your best, which, although unsuccessful, is the most that anyone could have done> Anyway, the reason that I went through all that is to ask whether there is anything that you guys would recommend for me to try in the future that I did not do this time.  Or, whether this may be some illness that I missed the signs on...?  I know that last one is hard to answer, but...?   <Well, it sounds to me like you did a good job on this one. Just remember to quarantine for at least 3 weeks, provide a good mix of foods, and a stable environment, and your fish should be fine. You may want to verify where the specimen was collected from, to ascertain that it was not collected from a region where drugs or chemicals may be common. You may want to try Marine Center, which offers fishes from collectors who use proper techniques to assure healthy specimens> At a minimum, I think that I will let my tank grow in a lot more before I try the angels again.  Losing them is like losing a work of art...that was alive! Thanks for trying to help!!  Take care, Greg. <Good idea to wait for the tank to "mature" a bit more. Hopefully, this unfortunate occurrence is an experience that you will learn a lot from. Good luck!  Chin up! Regards, Scott F.>

This Beauty Is Acting Goofy Hey guys, <Hi there! Scott F. your guy today!> I tried to get to the chat room to post this question but it seems to be down this morning? <Not aware of any problems...I'm sure that we'll check it out> Anyway I got a question about my coral beauty. She seems to be acting a little out of the norm the past few days. She cleared out a area in the back of the tank and won't let any other tankmates go near it. She also has been acting grouchy with the other tank mates and not feeding as well as she used to. This is really unusual for her because she is normally very peaceful. The only signs of anything is her fins are a bit frayed probably from her clearing this nest like area. There are no signs of any parasites or anything and all my tank levels are normal. Thanks for any advice you can toss my way. Rob. <Well, Rob- as far as the "nest" is concerned-this is somewhat unusual for a Centropyge angelfish to do, but certainly not unthinkable. This fish may just be trying to establish a "home base" of sorts to retreat to when he/she feels that it is necessary. I would not be overly concerned about this behavior at this point...Just keep an eye on her to make sure that there is no injury resulting from the "clearing" behavior. Regards, Scott F>

Hyper-beauty (Dwarf Angel on speed) 4/2/03 Probably a strange question, but here goes....!! How active are Coral Beauties?  Mine, who's about a week old in the tank, has become Speed Racer and zips around!!   <not at all normal for the reclusive dwarf angels... most any fish. Often caused by stress (low pH, e.g.) or even excessively bright lights (MH) or a mirrored reflection in the glass (causes pacing back and forth with reflection). Many possibilities here> No aggression with the other fish (who seem mildly appalled from time to time at his antics), looks great, eyes clear, eats like a horse, and is very personable when he catches me watching.  He doesn't look ill, and water parameters are fine.  Other fish in tank (only 2 smaller guys) look great and are eating well too.  Is this just normal behavior? <not really> Also...odd little story. have a very small tank-raised Common Clown (adorable little guy) who for the three months I had him in the big tank seemed a little retarded.  Never saw him eat, hung out in a top corner, sometimes head down like a vampire, sometimes floating on top of the water with one fin waving feebly.  Every day we thought was his last.  Finally, one day he actually went after food (we were shocked) and apparently caught the attention of the Yellow-tailed Damsel (nasty thing) who began to chase and nibble on him.  I promptly took him out and had him in a fishbowl w/ airstone until he went to the Great Reef in the sky.  Well.....he loved it....swam, ate, interacted with me etc.  So, now he lives in a 5g tank with BioWheel, live rock, and a blue claw hermit for company...and is healthy, eating like crazy, and very cheerful.  Go figure!!! <rather shy it sounds <G>> Anyhow, thanks for any info on above question...I'm still fairly new to this, but am reading everything I can find, and thoroughly enjoy your website!! Allison <no worries... you are very observant and conscientious... kudos to you, my friend. And best regards, Anthony>

Bi color beauty mark? <Hi Mike, PF here this PM> I just ran across your site and could not find specific info on my dilemma with a newly acquired bi-color angelfish.. this beautiful fish was introduced to my 60 gallon tank last Thursday and was healthy looking to my untrained eyes.. I covered the tank with the lights off for the first 24 hours. <Good procedure> I did not attempt to feed this fish until the next day... it has been one week now and this fish still hides in the live rock and only eats algae, or so it appears... my most urgent problem is a pink wart like growth by one of its gills, size looks to be about 4mm in size. I have since noticing this growth added MelaFix, a Melaleuca tea tree oil as this has always helped the fish's skin to retain bacteria resistant "oils"?. do you have a name for this growth and possibly a solution for this most elegant fish?? in advance, thank you for your help... mike <Well Mike, digging through the FAQs this is what I found: (here's the FAQ btw www.wetwebmedia.com/marine/fishes/angels/disease. tm ) From Bob on a wart like growth on an angel: (Sound familiar?) <Well, thanks for the last comment... and thanks for causing me to get out all my older and latest "fish disease" reference works... To sum up: Idiopathic epidermal proliferation (i.e. the type of tumor you're describing) have no direct cause-effect relationship... many authors cite water "contaminants" as probable cause... and yes, there are incidents and suggestions that when such "neoplasm's" occur on the outer surface of a fish that some sort of surgery might/has proven worthwhile... If it were me though... I'd just attempt to improve and hold steady your water quality, and if (I know the species and it is a good feeder) the animal is still feeding, apply a vitamin, iodine mix (these are made for fish foods as well as humans) to its food immediately before offering it. I wouldn't "try" anti microbials, or anti-Protozoals... And I would try to be upbeat. Bob Fenner > <Hopefully this helps. You may want to feed it Mysis, or perhaps live brine (this is basically water flavored shrimp, but they love it, it's ok as an occasional treat - think of it as fish junk food) to get it feeding. You can gut load the brine with vitamins such as Selco, that wouldn't hurt to add it to it's diet. Have a good evening, and good luck. PF>

Potter's Angel Problems... Thanks for getting back to me so quickly. <My pleasure! Scott F. here again today!> I have a couple more questions, so I'll cut down your reply: I'm using an aquarium pharmacy tap water filter (you know, the big tube thing with carbon, and green stuff that turns to blue) as my source.  I assume this is a DI unit. <Yep> BTW, do I need to always use this to make new water, or will tap water in a bucket suffice?  I've been erring on the side of caution  and always using the filter for source water. <I'd continue with that practice...Quality source water is a key to long-term success> I checked the water coming out of the filter, and, the output of the alkalinity/hardness test (good thing I was in PetSmart and bought one of these yesterday, purely by accident :) was: hardness 25 ppm alk 20 ppm So I assume I need to add buffering. <Deionized water does need some buffering, due to it's inherent instability (lack of carbonate hardness)> <Ok, how do I do that?  Arm and Hammer, Seachem 8.3? I'd tend to use the commercial product for this. Seachem and some other companies make "reconstitution" products to stabilize purified water.> B) Given that both eyes are cloudy, although not at the same time, how long do I wait before I have to assume it's disease, and what else should I look for? <I would not give it more than a week. Keep on the lookout for other potential problems/symptoms, like "scratching" behaviors, excessive amounts of body slime or mucus, "shimmying", clamped fins, or any other signs that something is not right> <I wouldn't wait too much longer, frankly. I'd keep up the water quality and monitor for a few more days, before beginning treatment> <That sounds fine to me> Ok, should I remove the live rock in the QT to the display tank before treatment, or just assume I'm gonna lose it from the medication (the display tank is fallow). <Well- a minor correction here...Do not put live rock, sand, or other natural materials in a quarantine or hospital tank. They can "absorb" (for want of a better word) medications, making it difficult to maintain proper therapeutic levels. Also, these items have no place in a quarantine tank, for many of the same reasons. A quarantine or hospital tank is not a permanent feature, and should be broken down after each use. I wrote a piece on the quarantine process that's on the WWM site and which was in the March issue of FAMA, which may answer some of your questions on this> c) Are Epsom salts warranted yet? <Sounds like you're dealing with a disease, rather than injury, so I don't think that Epsom salts are the best course of action here> Ironically, the buffering in the tank is 300 ppm.  Maybe I shouldn't have changed the filter so soon. <Keep monitoring the water chemistry, and adjust as you need it> Thanks for all of your help and encouragement. I'll let you know how it comes out. Rob <Please do, Rob- I'm sure that things are going to go just fine! Keep up the good work! Regards, Scott F>

Potter's In Peril? Hi again, crew <Hi there! Scott F. here today!> thanks for your response. The Potter's seems to be eating its angel food and grazing off the live rock. <Good to hear that> In response to your reply: A) I put the live rock in based upon the QT setup in Michael Paletta's book. I even let the QT cycle (stupid newbie, I know :) b) Fishbase didn't help me with determining the sex of the potter. Since there were pictures of just brown potters, and ornate potters, I'm gonna assume that since my Potter's is ornate, it's a male. <Well, according to several texts I've read, the most reliable external indicator is that males seem to have more blue> But, I have a more important matter. Last Thursday (3/27), I noticed that the left eye was getting white and puffy. After reading through your excellent website about Popeye/cloudy eye, that it could be caused by a) running into things (sort of like a black eye in humans) b) poor water conditions c) disease. Please correct me if I'm wrong! <Nope- you got it right...!> The next day, the other eye started to puff (although not as bad). <Hmm...sounds like Popeye, perhaps?> I had been removing salt and adding fresh in an effort to turn the QT into a low salinity quarantine, especially after reading about how susceptible these fish are to Ich, velvet, etc. (BTW, what are your thoughts on that?) <I think that hyposalinity is a potentially effective preventative/treatment for parasitic diseases (Paletta also touches on this in his book, BTW). I'm not convinced of it's effectiveness on bacterial or fungal diseases. Just my opinion, of course, but I'd prefer more "traditional" methods. Potters, like many Centropyge species, are susceptible to the gamut of parasitic and fungal diseases. They require highly stable water conditions, and a varied, healthy diet. Stability is very important> From my notes: 3/20 added Potter's Angel, performed H20 change every 3 days of approx 1 gallon (QT is 15 gallons) to reduce salinity) <Good procedure, if you're using this technique. Changes should always be made gradually> 3/27 (after I noticed the puffiness): Replaced Biomatrix filter (polyester/carbon) 3/28:temp 79 ph 8.0 (yikes!) ammonia > 0.8 mg/l (yikes!) nitrite > 1.0 mg/l (yikes!) nitrate ~ 20 mg/l SG 1.018 3/30: temp 80 ph 8.1 SG 1.015 ammonia 0.4 mg/l nitrite 0.8 mg/l nitrate 20 mg/l 3/31 (6 hrs after 5.5 gallon H20 change, 50% salt, 50% fresh): temp 77 SG 1.015 PH 8.0 (yikes!) Didn't do all the tests this morning because I was in a rush to get to work. I added a little less than a teaspoon of Seachem 8.3 marine buffer. Haven't done any tests tonight. <It's good that you're testing regularly...> So, my questions are: a) I assume this is a combination eye contusion/water quality issue. What do I do to fix it? Will adding the SeaChem/doing partial water changes every day or so will help. <Well, as mentioned previously, stability of water parameters, including pH, is of great importance with these fish. I'd take whatever measures are necessary to assure stability. Is your source water buffered to an acceptable pH? Just a thought...> b) Given that both eyes are cloudy, although not at the same time, how long do I wait before I have to assume it's disease, and what else should I look for? <I wouldn't wait too much longer, frankly. I'd keep up the water quality and monitor for a few more days, before beginning treatment> c) Are Epsom salts warranted yet? <Epsom salts are effective if you're dealing with an injury (usually in one eye). If it's in both eyes, it's likely Popeye, and requires medication to treat, IMO> And, finally, what happened to cause the tank chemistry to get so out of whack (so I can avoid this happening again if it's the root cause). <I'm going to hazard a guess...Perhaps the biofilter was not fully established yet (hence the measurable ammonia and nitrite levels)...Really hard to say...The other thought is that the source water is not buffered sufficiently (RO/DI?)...> Again, I'm a newbie, so be gentle in your answers :) I'm just trying to learn/fix my mistakes. Rob <Rob, you're doing fine, questioning and learning...I'm pretty certain that you'll keep doing the right thing with this fish...Good luck! Regards, Scott F>

New Coral Beauty Angelfish I brought home a coral beauty a day or two ago and I have him quarantined. <Good idea.> He has not eat any Mysis shrimp as of yet so he has me a bit worried. I was doing some reading and I came across this: "Dwarf angels are susceptible to the common parasitic scourges of Ich (Cryptocaryon), and velvet disease (Amyloodinium), and unfortunately sensitive to conventional treatment (copper with or w/o formalin formulations). " My angel doesn't appear to have a disease but I do maintain a small amount of copper in my tank to remove any disease on his body or anything that could infect my main tank. He has no problems other than not eating. My quarantine tank doesn't quite have the macro/micro algae growth that my main tank does so I was hoping he would get by on Mysis until introduction into the main tank. Should I be worried, remove the copper by doing a massive water change, or is his not eating just from being new? I've always read not to be worried if your fish doesn't eat for a day or two. but in my own short-lived personal experience I've never had a fish not eat after the first 24 hours. (notice I prefaced it with short-lived.) <I always recommend that people quarantine their new fish and perform daily, small water changes (10% everyday for the two to three weeks of quarantine. This helps to promote the fish's immune system and helps to remove any parasites. I would start doing this now and allow the copper levels to diminish. -Steven Pro> thanks for the help!!

Centropyge Angel Concern  Yo... would it be Anthony, Steve Pro or Bob?   <Oh wise Web publishing Garoo... you have Anthony Calfo here by the grace of your guidance and instruction (smile)>  I have a potters which has been in quarantine now for about a month,  <bless you for the discipline to run a full quarantine!>  and is a very enthusiastic eater. Anyway... this morning, it's quite faded... but still excited to eat and doing normal things around the tank. Water checked out normal. Given their propensity to crap-out before your eyes, I am concerned... any thoughts as to what this might be?  <singularly, the symptom on this fish that has demonstrated stability and acclimation otherwise is no cause for concern yet>  I've always though fading was either age and nutrition induced, or signs of impending doom.  <the former certainly not applicable with consideration for the short time that you've had it since import, the latter always a possibility for the very same reason>  I suppose attitude/psyche could be another. He's got a cleaner shrimp as tank-buddy, should I get him something else to interact with?  <if it was me... dancing girls would make me feel better. For your angelfish however, the suggestion of dither fish could be helpful but not recommended with due caution on the chance that we could be looking at a pre-curser to a pathogenic condition (although unlikely in my opinion)>  Thoughts?  <No worries yet... I'd suggest an observation period (3-5 days) looking for any evidence of repetitive or escalating symptoms. A fish that has gone through a month of quarantine, eats very well and shows now other or pathogenic symptoms should not be subjected to non-specific, prophylactic medication for example. It would not serve the greater good. Keep us posted>  Thanks. J -- <truly...thank you sir for the excellent education. We're carrying on smoothly, I believe, thanks to you. I may join up with you in San Diego later too... what dates are you and Zo going? Anthony> 
[regarding Centropyge fading]
Follow-up Uggh... doesn't look good. I guess it's good he's been eating for the month because I do believe we're about to "go through it" He was in his den this morning, chillin' which is abnormal - very gregarious most times. On observation from the opposite side, the fading was more pronounced and one of the fins looking ragged, eyes are quite clear and he is alert, albeit subdued, and perhaps a little bit of slime-coat slough-off?? Only guess on the fin was perhaps a run-in with the intake of the trickle filter... nothing else in that tank but a cleaner shrimp and [well inspected, quarantined] live rock. So... amazingly enough, decided to come out and eat/nibble - didn't feed very heavily, but it certainly had the energy to get around the tank for food vs. swim and sink, swim and fall over. Tossed in some live macro from one of the fuges as a day-nibble, see if that is interesting to it... not interested in the live rock fauna that is there it would seem. So... I have an idle 25w UV I can bring to bear on the system, but I'm thinking it might be a too-little, too-late type augment.  <agreed... but for posterity, perhaps add it anyway> In any case, will be stopping by HD on the way home to get some tubing and clamps so I can get this moving... anything else? Eye of newt? Will also be doing a double check on the water chem. tonight.  Cheers, J <bummer dude (my professional and technical opinion in a nut shell)... furthermore, please evaluate the fish head-on (narrow view, face-to face) and tell us if you are seeing any irregular or asymmetrical respiration: either gill closed or favored while the other pumps? seem faster than normal.  (say...1/sec)? any sloughing from gills? We're looking for evidence of parasitic organisms. Bacterial infection seems highly unlikely after a month of demonstrated good behavior in good water quality. Unfortunately, you may realize why a full thirty days is necessary for screen for disease... day 29 does not mean home free. Very sorry and hoping for the best. Again...keep us posted please. Anthony>

Dwarf Angel Woes Bob, You were so helpful to us when we opened our store 4 months ago. Things mare going better than we could ever have hoped for. The people, customers and suppliers, we have met have made all the hard work worthwhile. <Outstanding. Glad to hear> Here's my questions: Why is it that we cannot seem to keep dwarf angels alive. We have lost more of these than any other family. Is there a trick to these? <A few... careful, lengthy acclimation is key... oh, more below> I have tried 3 separate suppliers and still they die. It bothers me as I truly do care about the fish under my care. <Yes... as is careful selection, choice of sources, locations... Do look over the individual comments posted on species on WetWebMedia.com here, and look into Fiji, other locales than the Philippines, Indonesia for Centropyges> Second, what do you suggest by way of water changes for our store? We did a 10% water change this past weekend and lost all fish out of two tanks. One tank is on a system of 4 and no other fatalities in the other 3 tanks! The other tank is one of 8. The other 7 house corals and inverts and they are all doing fine. Was this just one of those things or did we do something to cause their demise. <You likely have enough "water change" going on from water replacement from selling livestock... I would definitely pre-mix and store new water for a week or so ahead of use... have mucho live rock in the circuit...> Any words of wisdom would be greatly appreciated. <Do give the WWM site a read over... Especially the sections on marine disease. Bob Fenner

Lemonpeel Angel and dipping Hello Guys, <Salute, goombah! Anthony Calfo in your service> Just one question on giving a Lemonpeel Angel a Methylene Blue/Fresh Water dip. Is it safe to give a Lemonpeel a 5 to 10 minute dip? Read the FAQ's and your page on Centropyge but didn't find my answer. I am planning to purchase this fish and just not sure if I should dip the Lemonpeel. Thanks very much! Ron <a properly conducted freshwater dip of at least five minutes (aerated, buffered, temperature adjusted, etc) is fine for the angel... towards ten minutes with discretion. The problem is the Methylene blue. Centropyge angels are sensitive to metals (like copper) and organic dyes (like Methylene blue). Do consider Formalin instead for the medicated bath and follow mfg dose. Freshwater alone is fine too if you believe the fish to be in good health for starters before going into quarantine (you are putting him in quarantine right?!?) Kindly, Anthony>
Re: Lemonpeel Angel
Anthony, you are a good Dude.  <yes. thank you... when I'm not being a strict marine Nazi (remember the soup Nazi episode on Seinfeld?), hehe...> Definitely going into the Q-tank. Thanks Again, Ron <excellent! Best of luck to you, Anthony>

Coral Beauty Dip/bath Hi Guys! <Howdy> I am bringing home a Coral Beauty from the LFS on Monday. I am very excited and want everything to go well with this beautiful fish and my other fishes. LFS sold me Paraguard for my dip, I asked for Methylene Blue as per your suggestion but this is what they had. Is this safe, I have not opened the bottle yet?  <Safe, yes... but not the same general purpose> Also this is my first time at attempting the dip/bath and am quite uneasy about it. Q&A says to start with system water, than add fresh water and Methylene Blue. Do I have it right. I thought about a half gallon of my system water and fresh water, and use the directions off the Paraguard to see how much to add. I have another question that does not pertain to the dip/bath so will send another e-mail, so you can place them in their proper Q&A. <Okay> Thank you in advance for your advice. Sincerely, Lori <Be chatting, Bob Fenner>

Help!!! Sick Bicolor Angel I came home today, to find my Bicolor Angel lying on its side at the bottom of my QT tank... It looked like he had some black spots around the gills. He had been swimming and feeding yesterday. There were no signs of infection or parasites. He was not eating much, but he was eating. The damsel that lives in this tank is healthy. <hmmm... not symptomatic of anything specifically pathogenic but this species is notoriously still drug caught. If you bought it for under $30 in most big cities in the US then it is a strong candidate for drug poisoning. Quality hand-caught Bicolor's from Fiji and elsewhere are significantly more expensive than the cheap Jakarta and Philippine specimens. > I did a water test last night. Ammonia and Nitrite 0.. PH 8.3... Nitrate 60 - 80 ppm. I changed 2 gallons out of this 10 gallon tank while he was getting the FW dip. I scooped him out and gave him a 6 - 7 minute FW dip. I returned him to the QT.. He not lying on his side yet. What should I do? Continue FW Dips?  <hold off on the dips unless you see a specific indication of parasites (scratching, spots, sloughing possibly)> I looked closer, and his pectoral fins have a slight dusting of white spots.. Great!!! Ich!! I guess, I need to use Formalin II, along with the FW Dips. <Ok...fair enough... I agree <smile>. That will be $50 for the service call...hehe> Please let me know if there is anything else I should be doing... <singing in the rain is always delightful if it is warm enough outside> Thanks, Glenn <kindly, Anthony>
Re: Help!!! Sick Bicolor Angel
Hi Anthony, Thanks for the advice. Unfortunately, my Bicolor Angel did not improve. He became more lethargic. His respiration was very high. I was sure he would not survive the night, so I decided euthanasia was the only humane thing to do.. I froze him.. <alas... I am sorry to hear about it> He had been in my tank for almost two weeks.. He appeared healthy. Unfortunately, he only cost me $25, so I guess he suffered cyanide poisoning..  <it is certainly a strong possibility. Take a look at the gill color as well... should be richly red/pink. If pale pink in color... another indication of an unsound collecting technique> That will be the last Bicolor I buy.  <or let it serve as a reminder that many such "difficult" fish are difficult because of prevalent collecting or shipping practices. You may just need to research and buy from a different source. Case in point... common Regal Angels are all but "impossible" to keep alive. But aquarists have found that the race called "orange throat" Regals from the Maldives and Red Sea are quite able to live in captivity. Unfortunately, they are much more expensive and generally need to be special ordered. Many other such examples (Moorish Idols from Hawaii, Coral Beauties from Fiji (mostly purple body... not orange dominant)). Indeed, many subtleties to research or look out for>  Not to mention from now on, I'll research ya'lls site before buying any new fish.. Thanks Again, Glenn <excellent... information is power as they say. Anthony>

Coral Beauty trouble (Bob's turn) Bob, I have a Coral Beauty I just purchased Saturday and placed in a 20 gallon quarantine system. The fish seemed healthy at the store; bright colors, active, clear eyes, nice plump shape, etc. I have it in a 20 gallon long by itself with a set of barnacles for cover, a heater, thermometer, and Tetratec 300 filter seeded (for 4 weeks) with bacteria from my 55 gallon tank. I have tried to get it to eat everything I have, frozen krill, frozen plankton, frozen Formula Two, flake Formula Two, and Nori. It won't touch a speck of food and now has very cloudy eyes and is not very active. Any ideas?  <Perhaps "just shock" from collection, being moved about... some Centropyge species are consistently like this... I would either move this animal prematurely (as in not waiting for the whole two weeks quarantine interval) to a stable live-rock equipped tank (through a freshwater bath process), or place some thoroughly cured LR in the twenty with it (as food source and to stabilize water quality)> My water parameters are 78 degrees, 0 NH3, NO2, NO3, and 1.023 salinity. I have the fluorescent light that came with the tank on for twelve hours a day. I don't know what could be the problem so I don't know what to do to try to help this beautiful fish. Please help by suggesting what could be wrong and what I should do. Thanks again, Amy <Please read through the parts of WetWebMedia.com re "Quarantine", "Dips/Baths", and the genus Centropyge for more background. Bob Fenner>
Coral Beauty trouble (Anthony's turn)
Bob, <Bob just got back from Indonesia and I'm praying to the gods of long term vision that he has not returned with a thong tan. Anthony Calfo in your service> I have a Coral Beauty I just purchased Saturday and placed in a 20 gallon quarantine system.  <good job!> The fish seemed healthy at the store; bright colors, active, clear eyes, nice plump shape, etc.  <for future reference too... play Bob's "deposit game" with them by placing money if possible down to hold the fish and let it sit on import for at least a week if not two. A quick turn around is otherwise hard on a fish> I have it in a 20 gallon long by itself with a set of barnacles for cover, a heater, thermometer, and Tetratec 300 filter seeded (for 4 weeks) with bacteria from my 55 gallon tank. I have tried to get it to eat everything I have, frozen krill, frozen plankton, frozen Formula Two, flake Formula Two, and Nori. It won't touch a speck of food and now has very cloudy eyes and is not very active. Any ideas?  <the no eating is not a surprise and not that much to worry about. The cloudy eyes is an issue. Do medicate with Furan based drugs to play it safe. Look for secondary symptoms of parasites too> My water parameters are 78 degrees, 0 NH3, NO2, NO3, and 1.023 salinity. I have the fluorescent light that came with the tank on for twelve hours a day. I don't know what could be the problem so I don't know what to do to try to help this beautiful fish.  <consider a FW dip if parasites seem evident. Else the antibiotics for at least 5 days. Find an algae covered piece of rock for it to nibble on too> Please help by suggesting what could be wrong and what I should do. Thanks again, Amy <best regards, Anthony>

Dwarf Angels Thank you for the quick response to my last question. Your valuable advice makes the hobby so much easier. It's nice to finally find a source of helpful information. <You are welcome.> I was reading your section regarding dwarf angels. You mentioned their sensitivity to copper with or w/o formalin, but in the flame angel article it said to be prepared to use copper if needed. Will flames tolerate copper, or formalin. <Their are several people who write for this website and we all bring different experiences to the table. Bob probably wrote the Flame Angel article with Anthony writing about the dwarf angels sensitivity to copper and/or formalin. IME, I try to minimize any and all medications. There are instances where you have to medicate, but there are other options; quarantining, daily water changes for Cryptocaryon/Marine Ich, and lower salinity treatments.> Thanks, Rich. <You are welcome. -Steven Pro>

Coral Beauty Hello Everyone, Hope all is well. I am in the process of saving a coral beauty from the freezer at the LFS. It is missing an eye and cannot be sold, so I will be taking it home and trying to rehabilitate it. <Good for you.> One eye looks to be gone and is kind of white and slightly fuzzy, not a big nasty fuzzy spot, but kind of fleshy, like when you just lose your eye. It will be going into a quarantine tank <Excellent!> and I was wondering if I should add anything to the water to help the healing process. <1 tablespoon of Epsom salt per 5 gallons of water and a medicated food for bacterial infections would be great.> The tank will be a 10 gallon with a Penguin 125 back filter for circulation, I will not be adding the carbon insert. Should I add some medication, or wait and see if she heals on her own. <I would wait, but be prepared to add a broad spectrum antibiotic if it does not respond to or eat the medicated food.> I know the odds are not in her favor, but she has a better chance in my med tank than she does in the freezer. Thanks a lot, and best regards, Gage <Good luck to you and your fish. -Steven Pro>

Lemonpeel Angelfish Hi, I have a Lemonpeel Angelfish that has a white wart looking thing on his  anal fin. What kind of disease is this and how should I treat it? Thanks. <I would leave it alone... maybe try a cleaner shrimp (Lysmata species) to clean up this biological blemish. This sounds like either a case of Lymphocystis or a tumor of internal origins... in either case, manipulating the animal, treating it with chemicals won't help, but hurt. Bob Fenner >

Coral Beauty's eye and Naso Tang Bob, this is the first time I am writing you. I have been reading your FAQ on your website and found it very informative.  <Good to hear> I have a couple of questions that I am hoping you can help me out with. I recently upgraded my 50 gallon aquarium to a 125 gallon aquarium. I initially had a Dragon Wrasse, Tomato Clown, Coral Beauty, and a small Blue Angel. Everyone was doing fine after I moved them into the 125 gallon aquarium and after a couple of weeks I went out and bought a small Naso Tang. I started noticing that one of my Coral Beauty's eyes was starting to get cloudy. I didn't want to catch it and put it into a quarantine tank right away because I thought that maybe the Coral Beauty had gotten scratched or something when I netted it and moved it into the 125 so I just left it alone and kept a close eye on it to see if it would just heal on it's own. <Doubt if the Naso introduction had anything to do with the cloudy eye... suspect the cause is what you state... and would have done the same...> I didn't want to stress it out any more especially since I had just gotten done moving it a couple of weeks earlier plus the Coral beauty was swimming around normally and actively eating as usual so I didn't think that it was infected with anything. While I was keeping on eye on the Coral Beauty I was tending to the new Naso Tang and trying to get it to eat. For the first few days it would pretty much hind behind rocks only coming out if I threw in some brine shrimp in there. <Typical... they're actually big algae eaters in the wild> That seemed to be the only thing it was interested in, pretty much ignoring everything else I tried to feed it. After it would eat a little brine shrimp, it would just go back and hide behind some live rock. Initially, I thought it was just shy and not yet accustomed to the tank and was expecting it to become more active when it felt more comfortable. That hasn't happened yet. What I have noticed though is that his fins have started to look like someone has been nipping on them. I have been observing the fish for quite some time and I haven't noticed any signs of any of my other fish being aggressive towards the Tang. <Likely the fraying is from being caught, moved, lack of nutrition...> I have finally moved my Coral Beauty into my hospital tank because it has been about a week and her eye has gotten worse. It is not only cloudy but now has swelled up and gotten very big. I'm not sure what this is and what might have caused it or how to treat it.  <Still believe the root cause is mechanical trauma... a possible infection, secondary.> I have also moved my Naso Tang into a hospital tank because I now think that it might have tail rot or something. I haven't noticed any of my fish picking on him so I don't know what else would cause his fin to look like it has been getting nipped. His lack of swimming around has made me think that it is sick but I am not sure what he has and thus have no idea on how to treat him.  <I would probably have left the Naso in the main/display tank and hoped that it would have "rallied"... otherwise, a percentage don't adapt to captive conditions (more than half)... and the quarantine system is likely compromised by such an active tankmate... and this fish will unlikely (re)sume eating there.> If there is any advice you can give I would greatly appreciate it. I really liked my Coral Beauty and would have to lose her and I had high expectations of seeing the Naso Tang owning the upper part of my 125 gallon aquarium since all my other fish hang out pretty much in the bottom half of the tank. Thank you. Gianluca <I would wait yet another week on the Coral Beauty to see if the eye will resolve and start to show signs of curing (the cloudiness will dissolve first, but the swelling may take several weeks. The Naso... I would likely place it back in the main tank (be careful of the sharp processes on caudal peduncle) and hope for the best (You do have live rock with some algal material growing on it I trust... in both the display and quarantine systems). If the eye continues to dis-improve I would likely daub it with a cotton-swab and a mercury-based medicant (mercurochrome, Merthiolate, Merbromin) that is used on children. I would wait a good week on this decision as I state... and weigh the damage of handling against the hope of repair of the eye. If the eye appears smooth on its surface, wait. Bob Fenner>

Well, I think problem is something else.. (Sick Fish... knowledge value...) Well, as I told you last Thursday, my lionfish died. My angelfish (Bicolor Angelfish) seemed alright. I got a coral beauty on Sunday. <Hmm... so soon... and two Centropyge in how large a system?...> Later in the day however, I noticed a small grey sore-looking mark on his back, right in front of the dorsal fin, and above the eyes. Well, its day two now, and it's grown a lot. This white-looking material has spread. I looked it up, and its supposed to be "fungus" or a bacteria. <Supposed to be?...> Anyways, I got Saltwater Maracyn to hopefully cure whatever was inside the tank affecting the coral beauty. Well, it turns out that body-fungus, which is what I suspect my coral beauty has, also has symptoms of "body scratching" which I believe I told you my lionfish did, and also cloudiness of the eyes (another thing my lionfish had). Unfortunately, I wish I could of treated the tank when I first noticed the lionfish acting odd. Also, my Bi-Color angel fish is "scratching" himself along the coral, and the bottom of the tank. <Uh, oh...> I read that low water quality can affect fungus too.. helping it grow.  <Yes, well put> I have 0 nitrites, 0 ammonia.. as for PH however, I'm a little confused. Normal range is between 8.1-8.4 I have 3 saltwater PH test kits. One said my PH is 7.4, another said it was 8.3, and the last said 9.0! <Have someone with a working kit test your water... and test your kits against known pH samples... junk the bad ones... look to the brands mentioned on the piece on pH, test kits and FAQs on the www.WetWebMedia.com site> Well, I'm going with the one that said 7.4 since that's the 'newest' one I got, and it tests for nitrites, ammonia, and nitrates. Well, if my water is really 7.4, I never knew, since my other two PH kits told me different, so I added some buffer to the tank to raise the ph <See above... Don't "go with" a given kit because of its age...> I hear that having crushed coral as a bottom substrate is bad for a saltwater tank, since it's a refuge for fungus to grow. Well, I have roughly 3 inches of crushed coral on the bottom of my entire tank. <What? No... where are you getting this mythinformation?> Basically, I'm hoping the Maracyn can cure whatever is affecting my fish, but I now know (I think anyways) that the lionfish most likely died to whatever is affecting my only two fish right now. Any suggestions you have to help keep a "fungus-clean" tank? I feel like I've done a lot, but maybe something I'm missing. <There is no such thing as a "fungus-free system"... only ones that are more/less optimized to host a minimum of decomposing organisms/populations... You need to find the real cause/s of the apparent problems here... It is entirely likely that the Coral Beauty Angels appearance is due to "stress" in general (shipping, handling...), and little to no value in treating the system with Minocycline (MarII)... Do read over the archives of some of the listservs on the net re disease, environment...> So I'm treating the tank right now, and I plan to do a 30% water change in 3 days when the Maracyn treatment is over with. <The water change will definitely help... as might "environmental manipulation"... lowering spg, raising temp... see the WWM sites "Disease" sections under the Marine area...> And, I'm also removing the crushed coral as a bottom, and putting in normal sand. Any suggestions you have would greatly be appreciated. <What is... "normal" sand? Please read over the "Marine Substrates" area and FAQs on the WWM site as well... I would NOT remove the current substrate while your livestock are having problems... Do you have a sophisticated marine aquarist friend who can come over, look over your shoulder and check your system, maintenance protocol out? Bob Fenner>

Lemon peel angelfish Hi, I have a 3 month old 50 gal reef tank. I recently purchased a Lemonpeel angel fish to add to my 3 other clown fish. They all seem to be getting along, however I never see the angel eating the frozen shrimp that is fed to the other fish. I bought some formula one today and it seemed to begin to peck at it. However, the thing that concerns me the most is that the angel has developed black areas around its eyes, and a small red bump right in the middle of his side. <Not good signs...> I will get another water check soon, however my last one indicated that my water is in good condition. My temp is ~79 and salinity is 1.023 at that temp. Any ideas or suggestions? The behaviour of the fish is the same as always, no scratching or anything like that. <Still... I would try expanding the food menu, using some types of algae (live, prepared), add a vitamin prep. directly to the water about once a month. Hopefully this specimen will rally. Please do read through the various FAQs on the genus Centropyge posted on our site: www.WetWebMedia.com... sometimes this species turns around... and is best kept in this sort of setting... though a larger system would be a plus.> Thanks, Deniz <Bob Fenner>

Vertical angelfish Bob, I have a Japanese pygmy angelfish that was until a few weeks ago. The problem is that she swim almost vertically all the time, head up. Her pectoral fish are going like crazy and her tail only moves in small quick wiggles. <Not good... sounds very much like internal problems... maybe from decompression during collection...> Is this a swim bladder problem or something else? She has been eating all the Ocean Nutrition foods but just looks very odd. <I do hope the fish "straightens out". This does happen at times> Do you have any recommendations on what to do with her? The system is fish only with a few invertebrates, all the other fish are fine and eating good, the clams and anemones I have are also doing good. Please let me know what you think, thank you in advance. Dave Wilson <Wish I had more to tell you, but this sort of complaint either solves itself of its own accord or... not. Bob Fenner>

Disease or parasite on a Keyhole Angel Hi Bob, I'm hoping you may be able to provide some insight here to my sketchy description. I have a 12 Eclipse tank set up in my office, containing 2 ocellaris clowns, a 6 line wrasse and a keyhole angel, <This tank is too small for this species> a cleaner shrimp, and approximately 10 lbs of live rock. The tank has been set up for approximately 1.5 months. My specific gravity is about 1.24. I do weekly water changes using water from my reef tank at home of 1 gallon per week. All of the fish, aside from the angel are healthy to the eye, and all fish including the angel are active and take food normally. The problem with the angel (I believe we've had him for 4 weeks) seems to be restricted to his mouth. The mouth appears to be "corroded" and white. It does not seem to be cottony. The mouth appears to always be open - I'm not sure if this is normal for a Keyhole angel since I've never kept one before. He does seem to eat normally and does not seem undernourished. I feed the fish OSI marine flake food, and put in a strip of seaweed selects (green) once or twice a week. The condition seems to vary, I honestly can't remember if there was any trace when we got the fish, but last week it seemed to be lessening, while this week it appears to be as bad as ever. <Hmm, this specimen may have some sort of genetic defect... or more likely issues continuing with damage... collecting/shipping or from physical trauma in the tank... with infection waxing/waning> Any ideas as to what may be going on here? And what would you recommend for treatment? Having the shrimp and liverock there, I assume my options will be limited without a hospital tank. Thanks, Rich Scheulen <Really... to trade/return this fish, and pick out something more suitable for your size/shape system. There are many choices... perhaps an Engineer Goby? Comical and intelligent... Bob Fenner>
Re: disease or parasite on a Keyhole Angel
Hi Bob, Thanks for the quick response. I have to take the blame for the fish being in the tank - the guy I share the office with jumped the gun and bought the fish because it looked cool, and I guess I didn't stress not buying things without checking with me first. Anyway, I'm wondering about the possibility of transferring the fish into my tank at home. The problem of course is that I do have a number of corals in the tank and am hesitant to risk the Centropyge/coral problem. Is this particular angel a big risk with corals (some polyps, and slipper coral, a disc coral, and a toadstool)?  <Small risk... maybe 10-20 percent chance of some nibbling in your scenario> And do you think the fish is a disease risk in my tank (75 gallons)? Any treatment if I do go ahead with this idea? <Perhaps a dip/bath in transit. Please read: http://wetwebmedia.com/dips_baths.htm> As long as I've got your ear, I want to run 1 more thing past you. I have a slipper coral in my tank as well as 2 ocellaris clowns (in the 75 gallon tank, that is). Both have been in there for a good 2 years. Recently one or both of the clowns have been picking at the slipper to the point of it being stripped bare on one portion of the coral. I don't have an anemone for the clowns, but they've bonded with a nice sized conch shell that I have in the tank - the coral is fairly close to their shell. I've been thinking of buying a bubble anemone in hopes of distracting the clowns (that's all I can think of). Do you have any possible explanations or suggestions? <I'd move the Fungiid> Thanks a lot, and sorry to take so much of your time.-Rich <No worries my friend. Bob Fenner>

Another Cloudy Eyed Angel!! Bob, I lost a flame angel about 3 months ago when my return tube started putting out  fine bubbles and probably caused the flame to have an air embolism (a sudden unexpected loss on night) <Yikes. A bummer for both of you> I replaced him with another about 8 weeks ago and his eye got cloudy, bulged and he developed a white blotched appearance on his face and subsequently died. <Time to look into another source, or your source in turn to look into theirs...>  I replaced him with another flame about a week ago. Everything was fine, he was eating OK and this morning I noticed this one developing a cloudy bulging eye. I don't see any white facial blotches yet. He's still eating for the time being. I also have a very listless lemon peel that I put in the tank a couple of months ago. No outward signs on this guy. I have two clowns a small 2 1/2' wrasse, Longnose  hawk, yellow tang, Kole Tang and a hermit crab. Any ideas or suggestions? Nitrites are bit elevated, very slightly. <Nitrites? Should be zero concentration> I have a 90Gallon Salt Fish only tank, Protein skimmer, UV, AMiracle Trickle Filter, Ozonizer with a RedOx controller, s.g. of 1.022 and temperature of 77 degrees. I bleached my Coral about a week ago and can't get the RedOx above 260 at this point?? <Get rid of your wet-dry media, if not the wet-dry itself (can use the "guts" as a sump instead...). Many sources of possible trouble here. Please read over this section: http://www.wetwebmedia.com/mardisease.htm of our principal site, and on to where the links, FAQs lead you... Consider the contributing causes that are potentially impacting, impinging on your livestock's health, your success. We'll be chatting. Bob Fenner> Lewis M. Kirschner

Saltwater Question Hello Bob, Very informative website you have and I enjoyed reading many of the articles. <Ah, good> I have a question....I recently purchased a 55 gallon tank from a friend with an emperor 400 filter, Visi-jet protein skimmer and the normal gear. The tank is about 3 weeks old and although I wish I waited, I jumped in and bought 2 fish. 1 is a "half-black" angelfish who has a cloudy eye which I am treating with Melafix and the other was called a "silvertip shark". I have searched high and low for information on this fish with zero luck. Do you know what the real name of this fish is? He is about 3 inches long with a silver body and black fins, he has whiskers like a catfish as well. I appreciate any help you have to offer. <Thank you for writing... with improving water quality, time, perhaps a better skimmer, your dwarf Angel should improve. The "shark" you so well describe is indeed a catfish. Please read here: http://www.wetwebmedia.com/ariidcats.htm  Bob Fenner> Regards, Derrick S.

Lemonpeel Angel and dipping Hello Guys, <Salute, goombah! Anthony Calfo in your service> Just one question on giving a Lemonpeel Angel a Methylene Blue/Fresh Water dip. Is it safe to give a Lemonpeel a 5 to 10 minute dip? Read the FAQ's and your page on Centropyge but didn't find my answer. I am planning to purchase this fish and just not sure if I should dip the Lemonpeel. Thanks very much! Ron <a properly conducted freshwater dip of at least five minutes (aerated, buffered, temperature adjusted, etc) is fine for the angel... towards ten minutes with discretion. The problem is the Methylene blue. Centropyge angels are sensitive to metals (like copper) and organic dyes (like Methylene blue). Do consider Formalin instead for the medicated bath and follow mfg dose. Freshwater alone is fine too if you believe the fish to be in good health for starters before going into quarantine (you are putting him in quarantine right?!?) Kindly, Anthony>

Angelfishes for  Marine Aquariums
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