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FAQs on Centropyge Angelfishes Systems

Related Articles: Centropyge Angels, C. loricula/Flame Angel, Lemon/y Dwarf Angels, A Couple of Lemons; the True and False/Herald's (nee Woodheadi) Centropyges, Potter's Angels, Reef Safari! Keeping Multibarred Angelfish By Alexander Thomasser,

Related FAQs: Best FAQs on Centropyge, Centropyge Angels 1, Centropyge Angels 2Centropyge Angels 3, Centropyge Angels 4, Dwarf Angel Identification, Dwarf Angel Selection, Dwarf Angel Compatibility, Dwarf Angel Feeding, Dwarf Angel Disease, Dwarf Angel Reproduction, Marine Angelfishes In General, Selection, Behavior, Compatibility, Systems, Health, Feeding, Disease.  

Large/r systems... lots of live rock... not too much disturbance going on...  Centropyge multicolor

Angelfishes for  Marine Aquariums
Diversity, Selection & Care

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by Robert (Bob) Fenner

Hi there Bob

My husband and i have been keeping marine fish for a few years now, we've got a 300 hundred litre system with a mix of common fish species, yellow tang, coral beauty, clowns and so forth.  We'd like to set up another system, but it would have to be smaller to fit into the space in our house.  We'd really like to keep a Vrolikii Angel.  We understand that it might nip corals so we are OK about having a FOWLR system.  What would be the minimum size you'd recommend for the Vrolikii and what would you suggest for tank mates? 

Angela Dickinson, Derbyshire 

            This Centropyge Angelfish is one of my personal favourites Angela; and of the genus, I place it toward the 'more reef safe' end of the spectrum'¦ To put this in another way, given sufficient purposeful feeding and not too much crowding, Vrolikii Angels tend to leave most all corals and relatives alone.

            Now, as to what I'm referring to in size/volume, a good four foot length and as much width (even at the expense of height) is a good minimum for one of these Angels to live singly; yes, about the same as your current 300l. As important as the space is providing caves and swim throughs for the Angel to be able to get out of eye-shot and feel comfortable. So, careful planning, stacking and possibly drilling and pinning of rock-scape are de rigueur.

            Good tankmate possibilities abound, but I'm partial to smaller, not-too active choices. Smaller schooling groups like hardier Cardinalfishes and Fancy Basses (Anthiines) are great'¦ and I'd definitely have something in the way of bottom fishes here; perhaps a Sand Sifting Goby or other Gobioid, Blennioid of choice. I would avoid most all Tangs, as too likely competing for food in the same ecological niche as the Angel; but would definitely look through the many smaller sized Wrasses for a bit of colour and action.

            'Corals' I'd start w/ might include ones less likely to be palatable, like Mushrooms, Zoanthids and Pulsing Soft Corals. Adding others as time goes by as small frags would be the route I'd go.

Lemon Peel Angel Treatment 11/10/12
Hello WetWebMedia Team!
I have a question concerning my Lemon Peel Angel. It has been in quarantine for a few weeks now. I had noticed that around its eyes they were getting very dark and appeared to be pushing out from it's head.
<Mmm, not good>
Usually you could see the beautiful blue around its eye, but the black was appearing to be pushing its eye out. I also noticed that its mouth had turned white, rather than its yellow color. It almost appeared like its mouth had worn away or was deteriorating.
<This too>
It didn't appear to be any growth on its mouth. I didn't know if it had hurt itself from bumping into the glass, because it does bump the glass very often.
<Am wondering, why?>
My LFS said it sounded like it may be a bacteria so they suggested I soak its food in Metronidazole.
<I wouldn't do this... better by far to seek out or just do what you can to "solve" probable water quality issues, perhaps nutritional deficiency>

They suggested its food be soaked in a "measure" or small scoop for 5 days.
I have noticed that the eyes are looking much better and its mouth is looking much better. Its mouth is actually turning yellow again. Do you feel the 5 days is good enough to treat this?
<Yes I do. Metronidazole is quite toxic in successive exposure>
I also was not sure where to go from here? How much longer should I keep it in quarantine?
<I would move this fish post haste to the main/display>
It looks great besides this issue. Once it is ready to transfer to the main tank, how long of a bath should I give it?
<A few minutes>
Should it just be a freshwater/ph/temp adjusted bath or should I do another type of bath?
<The former>
When I do the bath, if I was to see parasites in the water, should I feel safe to continue the transfer or should that signal I should put it back into quarantine?
<For flukes, back into quarantine, for treatment>
I'm getting a little confused on the key things to pay attention to when giving a good dip/bath. I wanting to make sure I am paying attention to the key signals along the way that tell me to stop and turn back. I appreciate your insight. You have helped so many times. We are learning so much.
Brent Wells
<Ah, good. Bob Fenner> 
Re: Urgent DT Exposed to Internal parasites, Lemon peel...    11/11/12

I called LiveAquaria where we got the fish. They seem to agree it sounds like internal parasites. They seem to think that since the Lemon Peel Angel has been in the tank since late last night that the DT has been exploded,
<Exposed? To what? To what that might affect other livestock...?>
 so to remove the Lemon Peel Angel doesn't seem to make sense. They recommend we should treat all of the tank mates with the Metronidazole for a week and then monitor very carefully for 8 weeks. They recommend a daily 20% water change.  It is my understanding that WWM recommends this is too long to treat with this medicine.
<Usually, yes>
Is this the best treatment? Should treat the whole tank?
<I wouldn't treat this fish, system period... IF I believed there were "some sort of internal parasite" issue here, I might feed the one fish (in a treatment system) w/ foods laced w/ this anti-Protozoal AND an anthelminthic>
 How long should I treat at this point. Should they all stay together since they have been exposed?
<... internal parasites of fishes tend to be species, genera specific...>
If they must be quarantined, I can only image how tough these guys are going to be to catch, so I'm concerned with the stress created by this effort. My DT has been a very calm happy tank for the most part, so I can only hope their immune systems are good.
They also suggested I could go with a PraziPro treatment. I am also not sure how this will impact my biological filtration.
<It won't; but will mal-affect to kill most worm/groups>
 I don't want to totally screw up the hard work up to this point. How do I protect the biological?
<... best not to treat in the main/display tank>
 I have a Fluval 400 with BioMax, BioFoam, Water Polishing Filters, and Carbon. I'm really stressed right now.
<I sense this>
I always say, "you don't know, what you don't know." Which means I don't even know if I should be asking some different questions? I'll stop rambling. You urgent help is needed. Thanks as always.
Brent Wells
<When, where in doubt, do nothing. BobF>
Urgent: Lemon Peel Angel Fish with Tubeworm?    11/11/12

Hello. I need your urgent help. Last night I finally introduced my Lemon Peel Angel to my DT. We did a quick freshwater/ph and temp adjusted dip. It is a 55 gallon tank
<I wish folks would keep the larger Centropyge species in bigger volumes... really too stressful to be in a four foot wide, 13" wide space>

 with one pair of orange clownfish, one pair of black/white clownfish, green wrasse, Banggai Cardinal fish, Golden Head Goby, and a Yellow Watchman Goby, and two turbo snails. I noticed today a long string of white poo. I assume a worm. Not sure how I should treat the fish and not sure how to treat the other tank mates. I'm so concerned. Your help is really needed. Thanks.
Brent Wells
<... I would do nothing treatment-wise here... the "poo" is not necessarily indicative of a pathogenic disease... Treatment is very likely more damaging. BobF>
Re: Thank you & Stocking & Setup Questions, C. flavissimus sys. KevinK    11/12/12
Hello WetWebMedia Crew,
I have a comment and then some questions about stocking and tank setup. If you have time, I would really appreciate it. First off, thanks so much for the information about the Lemonpeel Angelfish (Centropyge flavissima). You recommended, "<I wish folks would keep the larger Centropyge species in bigger volumes... really too stressful to be in a four foot wide, 13" wide space>". I feel bad. We are so new to this and feel like we do some research into making sure we stock with fish that will be compatible and happy. We speak with our LFS and with what we know to be a respectable online fish supply store about our set up and stocking plans. The online site says the Lemonpeel Angelfish (Centropyge flavissima) is good for a 30 gallon tank,
<... no my friend. This is way too small a space for this species, any of its similar-sized congeners>
so we felt we were doing good with a 55 gallon tank. Here's the link:
<Well, their site, link is down temporarily; but this is likely one of the (albeit few) differences I have w/ this division of Dr.s Foster & Smiths... Am BCC'ing the mgr. (and friend) Kevin Kohen here for his input. This company is excellent generally; and was a long-time sponsor of WWM in its early years>

.  It is evident every new aquarist needs to first identify and locate trusted information resources, especially some that aren't motivated by selling you something to help balance out all the other often inconsistent information found on other sites. The new aquarist then needs to have a clear understanding that when they read the forums
<These, the bb's, I am decidedly NOT a fan of... though WWM has its own (I don't participate); too much "noise" w/o reason>
 and individual tank setups, they must take into account the many variables. Often you aren't comparing apples to apples. It is more likely you are comparing oranges to apples.
<... both are fruits eh?>
Just because someone was successful at having a certain species of fish in their setup, doesn't mean it was right or that you can emulate it and get the same results.
<Ah yes>
 Once that is clear in your head, then do your research on what type of fish you want to have then build the tank set up around them. I feel this would have saved me so many stressful moments.
We have also run into an issue with what to do with our Kauderni Cardinal.
We purchased one, but you had suggested they were social and really needed another one. It is frustrating for a new aquarist to know where to find good information about stocking questions and information about the individual species.
<Books by and large are far better (more accurate, significant, meaningful information) than "net" experiences. Sites that will offer the reasoning behind their opinions are worthy>
 I just ordered your book in hopes that it may provide some much needed insight into this. Unfortunately, we found out about you and your site too late. My goal is not to kill or make an unhappy tank inhabitant. We want to get another Cardinal but are in a dilemma with how to go about this without creating a bigger mess.
<A much smaller specimen... an inch length or so; should get along>
 Since we don't know if the Cardinal we have is a male or female.
<Easy enough to sex at size>
 If I would have known I would have bought a bonded pair. Now, if I buy a bonded pair, what will that mean for the one we have?
<Perhaps antagonism in the four foot tank. It may be better for you to just stick to the one here>
If it is a male, then he is likely going to have a fight to the death. If I'm lucky enough to possibly get a female Cardinal then I may have a chance for a happy tank inhabitant. Or, I do nothing and the one I have is lonely. I'm open to suggested solutions. What would you do and what are some sources you would recommend?
<See above... wait till the one is sex-able, or just keep it singly>
We are also considering some cleaner shrimp to help set up a cleaning station for our other inhabitants: two pairs of clowns (black/white and orange/white), green wrasse, Kauderni Cardinal, Yellow Watchman Goby, Sleeper Gold Head Goby, and two Turbo Snails. Our plan was to have the Lemon Peel Angel, and a Carpenter Flasher Wrasse, a One Spot Foxface,
<Mmm, this too, Siganids period, need more room>
  and a Flame Angel, and possibly two Firefish Nemateleotris magnifier. Seeing this Motley Crew -LOL- are there some cleaner shrimp better for this group?
<A (solitary) shrimp of the genus Lysmata is about all I would place here (in a 55)>
Right now, I honestly couldn't ask for a better community of fish presently in the system. They all get along with each other and even seem to really enjoy hanging with each other. I hope it stays this way.  
Re: Thank you & Stocking & Setup Questions- From Kevin Kohen LiveAquaria (Centropyge flavissimus sys. f')     11/12/12

Thank you for bringing this to my attention, as it appears we missed an entire category on our site! 
As you probably know, Scott W. Michael's A Pocket Expert Guide- "Marine Fishes", along with his more recent publication "Angelfishes & Butterflyfishes" recommends and lists a 30-gallon minimum tank size for ALL Centropyge spp. angelfish.
<Fine for the dwarf-dwarf species as a bare minimum... C. argi, C. flavicauda et al...>
 We initially prepared LiveAquaria.com's recommendations from Scott's book as well as from a few other resources many years ago.
<I see... Well, ScottM and I's minimum size requirements for species do vary quite a bit; particularly for sharks, rays, eels...>
I have spent quite a bit of time over the last year re-evaluating and adjusting each species minimum tank sizes based on my experience rather than what is listed in a book. Most have doubled from what was listed previously. 
As you know, I have the utmost respect for Scott Michael and consider him a great friend, but his minimum tank size recommendations are far too small on almost every single fish I look at in his publications in my personal opinion.
<I see; and agree>
 I am wondering if Scott was thinking "if this is the only fish in the tank and there is not much rockwork then ________ would be the minimum recommended aquarium size????  Obviously that would exclude 98% of the hobbyists out there, as its rare to maintain a species specific display. 
(I guess I should ask Scott someday eh?) 
I agree with you Bob, as most Centropyge spp. (excluding the Fisheri/Argi complex fishes) need a 48" x 18" space in order to thrive for many years to come and live a long and happy life in the confines of any aquarium.  I have changed ALL of our larger Centropyge spp. today to a 70 gallon minimum tank size (48" x 18" footprint), and also increased the minimum tank size of the Fisheri/Argi complex fishes to 55 gallon (48" x 13" footprint).
Just like you, I really want to see hobbyists be successful for many years to come as that is what it's all about.
<Ah yes>
  I would rather consumers pass up fish that may be borderline appropriate for their specific tank size or environment and loose a sale before seeing someone try something that doesn't work and they fail attempting to make it work.  
Please pass this along if you wish <doing so> and thank you very much for bringing this to my attention. 
Kevin Kohen
Director of LiveAquaria
Drs. Foster and Smith
<Thank you for your up-front, first-hand input Kevin. Be seeing you about.
Bob Fenner>
Re: Thank you & Stocking & Setup Questions- From Kevin Kohen LiveAquaria, Centropyge, C. flav. sys.  – 11/13/12

Hello Bob,
Thanks for passing the recent communication along between you and Kevin. I hope I didn't cause any issue.
<No; quite the opposite: This is exactly how such issues are rectified,  improved. KevinK, ScottM and I are long-time friends and professionals in the trade... Our goals are confluent if not identical: to provide accurate, significant, meaningful information in a timely manner; to help others be successful in the hobby>
I am happy to hear Kevin's desire to do the right thing based on your recommendations. I had felt they were a credible source, so I'm happy to hear of the changes. I also appreciate your efforts in being an instrument of change for these beautiful creatures that so often fall prey to those of us who are not so aware. Unfortunately, it was too late for my situation.
I appreciate all you do.
Best wishes,
<Cheers, BobF>

Can you assist with a tough choice?!/Centropyge Systems/Compatibility 2/15/12
Good afternoon.
<Hello Carl>
Well, I finally managed to convince the Mrs. to let me upgrade my nano-reef to a 120 L aquarium. I'm really quite chuffed! Although I will be peeling the spuds for weeks to compensate.
<You will eat good as well.>
Anyway, the current occupants are a pair of Orchid Dottyback fish, a couple of cleaner shrimp, 1 blue hermit and a mixed bunch of snails. Lots of live rock. Water parameters are all nice and stable. Some nice corals, Duncan coral, sun coral, Blastomussa species and some mushrooms and Xenia. Some really funky algae too.
So, getting to the point. I'd really appreciate your experienced point of view with regards to the adding of either a multicoloured angel, or a golden angel. I have read as much as I can find about them and I believe that I have enough knowledge to cater for their needs. I realise they'll be quite reclusive but I like that. The Dottybacks come out infrequently and it's a pleasure. Sorry. I digress, I am Willing to take the risk that either may nip my corals. But, I wondered, if you might be able to advise on the most appropriate choice to live with the Dottybacks?  If appropriate at all. These
Angels are very expensive in the UK. (£155).
<I'd avoid these fishes with your present aquarium size of 30 gallons.  Dwarf angelfish do much better in tanks 50 gallons and up. With the semi-aggressive Dottybacks present, which aggressively defend their hiding places, the Golden Angel is likely not going to come out to feed or find a safe refuge.  The Multicolor Angelfish isn't quite as shy as the Golden Angel and is a little on the aggressive side.  The bright lighting would make matters worse as the Golden Angelfish is a deep water swimmer.>
Also, the lighting is relatively strong, for the coral. There are plenty of shaded caves etc, do you think this would suffice or are there likely to be issues for the angel long term with bright lighting? I know they are deeper dwellers.
I would not be adding anymore fish to the system which is nice and mature with loads of hiding places etc.
Much obliged to you.
<You're welcome.  James (Salty Dog)>

Multicolour Angel/Re Can you assist me with a tough choice? 2/20/12

James, as promised a very poor photo of my new addition! I won't hold my breath for national geographic contacting me, but it shows his colours off.
<Does appear to have nice color.  Thanks for sending.  James (Salty Dog)>
Regards, Carl

Can you assist with a tough choice?!/Centropyge Systems/Compatibility 2/20/12
Hi there James,
Unfortunately I had already purchased a multicolour before I managed to read your reply. I would have refrained otherwise. On the bright side, the angel has been with me for 2 days and he is absolutely marvelous. He is eating pretty much everything I put in the tank, Mysis, brine, flake, algae and freeze dried cyclopese <Cyclop-eeze>. He is not at all shy, and already comes to the front when I'm about. I think the rock work has helped him feel more secure.
<For sure.>
I am particularly pleased that the orchids have, so far paid no heed. I put a few Chromis in as target fish at the same time to distract them. Seems to have worked...
I do however, plan to upgrade when we move house in about 4-5 months time as I take on board your expertise. I'll send you a couple of dodgy photos in a minute to show him off.
Thanks for the advice.
<You're welcome.  James (Salty Dog)>

Centropyge Multicolor/Systems 10/17/09
<Hi Jason>
I have been searching the forums high and low regarding the Centropyge Multicolor and have found nothing but positive remarks about it. Yet, My Fenner has labeled it a 2 out of 3 in survival under it's profile in the "Centropyge angel" section (It is also not listed in the "The best marine angels for aquarium use"). Does anyone know why that is? Is this fish delicate or is it really a hardy pygmy angel once acclimated like most of the "experienced" say? I really trust Mr. Fenner's judgment/opinion, he has helped me with my success in the saltwater fish hobby. If possible, I'd like to hear straight from him....or anyone else who may know the answer to my question lol.
<This fish is moderately difficult to keep due to it's natural habitat in the wild. This fish is generally found in waters 50-200 feet deep, prefers subdued lighting, plenty of caves/crevices, and temperatures in the 72-75 degree range. Being the fish is found in deeper waters, it is more likely to suffer from decompression related maladies.
In lieu of the difficulty in collecting these fish properly, expect to pay upwards of 100.00 for one.
If you can provide the requirements this fish needs, and are successful in acclimation, then the fish can be relatively hardy.
Due to it's requirements, it is not a fish for our warmer water FOWLR and reef systems, and the odds are 2 out of 3 that the fish will not do well in such settings.
I do believe that is what Bob based his statement on. Bob may comment here.>
Thanks much,
<You're welcome. James (Salty Dog)>
Re Centropyge Multicolor/Systems 10/17/09

Thanks James.
<You're welcome Jason.>
So, have you personally ever kept Centropyge Multicolor in captivity? And how did it thrive?
<I did not for reasons stated in the previous email, but I have kept several other species of Centropyge with a good track record.
James (Salty Dog)>

Pygmy angels, comp./sys.  03/19/2008 Hi, <<Hello Marianne, Andrew today>> I'm learning just by searching your site. I checked out the questions on dwarf angels, but didn't get a definite on this. I was told I can have multiple dwarf angels if I introduce them at the same time. I'm thinking (and was told by the shop owner) I could add a flame angel, dusty, and coral beauty if I add at one time. <<I have seen these together in the same system before. Your tank is a good size. All 3 are territorial, so ensure plenty of hiding places / cover is available. Do add them at the same time.?? The flame is about 2 1/4 inches and the other two are closer to 3 inches. I have a 115 G live rock tank (135 lb rock) with a powder brown tang, sailfin, foxface, and 2 fairy wrasses, blennies (1 scooter, 1 lawnmower), 2 starfish, and 2 diamond gobies. Also have a few Zoanthids, 2 anemones, 2 clowns, and 2 small blue green Chromis (original fish from set up--they lived through it all). The angels would be my last addition. Reading your site, I am wondering if I have too many, but I would really like at least 1 or 2 angels (I should say, my husband wants all 3!). What do you think? <<In my opinion, at best, add one. You are very borderline on your stocking levels. Read more here including linked articles and FAQ's http://www.wetwebmedia.com/marine/fishes/angels/centropyge/index.htm>> My husband takes care of the tank. I don't know the numbers, but he said all is where it should be. Filter-wise, we have "mud filter" with protein skimmer ( sits underneath main tank), and extra pump for water circulation, and 10K (2 white, 2 blue) lights, and blue moon lights for night. Marianne <<hope this helps, A Nixon>>

Two Centropyge Species In A 30g Tank? - 03/05/08 Hi Guys, <<Victor>> Your website is super great. <<Is a collective effort…thank you>> Just one question, I have a Pygmy Angel in my 30 gal tank <<Mmm, several Centropyge spp are referred to as "Pygmy" >> and the store where I buy the majority of my livestock has a Bicolor Angel for sale. The owner told me that I can safely introduce the latter to the aquarium with no problem of fighting between the two angels. <<I disagree…the tank is much too small…even for your single specimen, really>> I have my doubts, can you advise me on this matter. <<As stated…you should not add the Bicolor to this tank>> Thanking you in advance and keep up the great service that you provide to all who read your articles. Victor <<Happy to share, Victor…and please do have a read here (http://www.wetwebmedia.com/marine/fishes/angels/centropyge/)  and among the linked files. Regards, EricR>>

Japanese Fishes. Centropyge interruptus, Enchelycore pardalis sys...   6/30/07 Hello and thank you for your extremely valuable site. I have searched and not found references to my questions. I'm a long time owner of a 200g reef setup and have learned many lessons first-hand and from sites like yours. I'm now embarking on remodeling my house around my dream setup. A 500g reef tank and a 170g eel tank (one specimen). <How nice!> I have one question that affects both tanks. I would very much like to keep a Centropyge interruptus in my reef tank. Also, I have planned the eel tank entirely around a Japanese Dragon Moray (Enchelycore pardalis). My understanding is that the dragon moray has more stunning color when collected from Japan than Hawaii. <Mmm, yes... or the Marquesas... though both/all "color morphs" are gorgeous...> My LFS has told me that both fish require significantly cooler water than other fish. Is this correct? <Mmm... define "significantly"... My answer is no... both are tropical fishes, both collected in warm water... though the small Centropyge does occur in water in the upper sixties F. in places> I can cool the eel tank easily as it is a separate system, but the angel will be mixed with fish from all over the world. I have not been able to find a recommended temperature range for these animals. Will a warmer tank temp (~80F) affect the viability of the angel? Any suggestions? <Should be fine... You can find, see, infer this information by looking up these species on the site fishbase.org Cheers, and good-life with your projects. Bob Fenner>

Re: Wrasse as final addition; Centropyge issues  3/3/07 I have about 10 snails and 7 hermits including 2 Astreas, 2 Turbos, 2 Margarita, 3 Nassarius, 1 Cerith snail, 4 blue leg hermits, 3 red leg  hermits. I also didn't think that the tank would be too small for the angel. I  thought I read they can be kept in 30 gallon tanks, but only heard once or twice  they need like 55g. <Depends on your sources someone trying to sell it to you will give you the lower number, where realistically for the animal to thrive the latter number is much better.> Will this be a problem in the  future? <Ideally you don't want to hold a Centropyge it's entire life in a 30 gallon aquarium ,no. Adam J.> <<RMF wouldn't do this period.>>

Fisher's Angel   11/19/06 Hi Bob, I hope the evening finds you well -- certainly a good chance in the tropics. <Yes, thank you my friend> You are certainly envied by my wife and I. <Mmm, please join me> Just a quick compatibility question I thought I'd shoot by you, as I'm planning out my aquatic purchases about 6 months from now, once I get my treasure trove of salty goodies from Santa (T5 lights and Tunze skimmer, here I come!) <Heeeeeee!> Now I know that any angelfish is a calculated risk in a reef, however you and many others say that the dwarf angels, specifically Centropyge fisheri are a calculated risk often worth taking. <Ahh, saw a very nice specimen a few days back... am out in HI> Next to possibly the astoundingly beautiful Centropyge interruptus, it is one of my absolute favorite gems I've found since my treks into this hobby. Would you believe that a 40 gallon tank, with dimensions of 32.25" x 14.5" x 19" would be of enough size to permit proper growth for the life of this species? <Yes... though close to what I consider a minimum limit> Obviously adequate filtration, live rock, and an in-line refugium will be incorporated as well, and I would like this to be the show species for this tank, regardless of if I get a larger setup in the future (you know that itch ;). <Oh yes..> Do you believe this to be a permissible home for one of my dreams? <Yes> Also, I was curious if your previous offer to assist the crew in daily responses still stands. I think I'd like to try my hand at it, if you still feel my knowledge adequate. Thanks, Justin <If you believe, you want to try, please be welcome to our association... Please write back with a brief bio. to post, and I'll send along the log-in info. BobF> > > >
Fisher's Angel   11/19/06
> > <<<Had intended to attach this to the previous correspondence, lets try > this again... Thanks, Bob. -Justin>>> > <<<<Last question on this one, back to the original purpose of the email.. Do you have a source that would be a good read-up on a biotopic setup to display the C. fisheri? Thanks again, Bob. -Justin>>>> <I wish... best to read about HI reef slope environments period... as a side-note, a friend, fellow WWM'er, Scott Fellman, has been laboring on a book re biotopic presentations... And lived in HI for quite a while. Am going to cc him here. Bob Fenner>

Filtration, SW, Centropyge sys., sel.   9/2/06 Firstly, I appreciate all of the information available on your site. I may be suffering from a certain degree of volume overload and am trying to determine an optimal set-up for my system. I have a 40g (12" X 48" x 16"h) with 130W PC lighting, 20lbs liverock and a SeaClone150 protein skimmer.  I plan on adding more live rock, and realize that the SeaClone is not an optimal skimmer. The tank has been cycled and currently houses a blue damsel (that is rather submissive and was being abused by a Basslet in my established 20g), ~15 hermit crabs and 15 snails. I would like to add a flame angel, <Mmm, not really enough space for this here> then another compatible fish over time (any suggestions would be welcome), as well as a cleaner shrimp and perhaps a Fromia sp star. The ammonia, nitrate and nitrite are all 0. pH is currently 8.2 and calcium 450. The skimmer produces roughly 10-20 ml of a dark green suspension daily. There has been rather aggressive brown diatom growth, <This will "go" in time> but many of the snails and crabs were recent additions and this seems to be stabilizing (I have also recently decreased the time the light is on).  My reading leads me to conflicting opinions on whether the current set-up will be adequate, whether it might be adequate but I'll have to see how the system works over time, or whether it is obviously insufficient. <For a "full-size" Centropyge species, the latter> I   would appreciate suggestions regarding the current filtration set-up, and stocking plans. Thanks. Scott <Thus far you're doing fine... take your time... "when in doubt, count it out" might be a working philosophy to adopt, adapt... Keep reading, gathering data points. Bob Fenner>

Nitrates 8/28/06 Hi Bob, <Hi Aaron, Leslie filling in for Bob this evening> You're a great help to me and my fish. <Glad to hear and will pass it on.> I have a 55 gallon marine, SeaClone 150, Emperor 400, 18 watt Turbo Twist UV, 50 lbs. live rock, with 1 small Saddleback Clownfish, and 1 small Blue Tang, a couple small snails, and crabs. I am having trouble keeping my nitrates down below 10 ppm. <10 ppm is not a problem.> I do 10 gallon water changes every two weeks.  I just put the Tang in about 4 weeks ago, and I have a small bicolor angel that I have in my QT, that I am wanting to add but I don't want to if my nitrates are to high. <They are not to high> I know <30 ppm is acceptable but I don't want to kill my fish by adding another. <Should not be a problem.> Should I get some kind of nitrate remover media for my emperor, or do you have any other suggestions. <No, would not recommend any of those. Small frequent water changes, some additional live rock, live sand if you do not have any and some macro algae should help. Please do have a look at the following article and FAQs http://www.wetwebmedia.com/nitratesmar.htm Thank You, Aaron <Your most welcome, HTH, Leslie>
Re: Nitrates... (follow up 9/1/06)
Hi there, Hi Aaron> Continuing my letter I added my bicolor angelfish, and every since I added him he has been underneath a piece of live rock and not coming out. I can see him, he is not breathing heavy and is swimming in place fine. <Good signs> Is he just being shy. <Most likely> Everything else is fine. All of my levels are ok.<Great> Nitrates are at 10 maybe a little more ppm. Way less than 30.  everything else is just about at zero. <Excellent>   Is there anything I can do to make him feel safer and come out. <Give him his space and a little time.> Leaving lights off for a day? <Sure, can't hurt and may help.> I tried putting a lettuce clip in front of the rock. <That's fine as well.> I am just concerned he's not eating. What is your opinion. <He is most likely adjusting to his new home. If he was eating and in good weight before you brought him home a couple/few days without eating should be fine. Mine snacks on goodies in the sand and rock, so he may very well be doing that when you are not peeking.> Thank You, Aaron <Your very welcome, Leslie>

Dwarf Angels, sel. sys.  6/29/06 I'm in the process of stocking my 240 marine tank, and would like to add two or three dwarf angels. On some sites, they say you should not do this, on others, they say the dwarf angels will get along in a 75 or larger tank. <Centropyge of all species are better housed in large/r quarters> I like the Coral Beauty, Bicolor, Eibli, Flame, and Half Black. Would two or three of any of these get along in a 240 with lots of caves and hiding places? Teresa <Likely so... though you might not see much of any of them so kept. I would leave out the Eibl's and Half Black myself from this list. Bob Fenner>
Re: Dwarf Angels, sel. sys.   7/2/06
Hello Bob, <Teresa> Thanks for taking the time to write. Disappointed to hear that, so will decide on only one for the tank. Just setting up the tank, so you'll probably get another question or two over the summer. Great website you have, a wealth of information. Teresa <Thank you... and don't be too discouraged. There are many other wonderful choices to consider, sort through. Cheers, Bob Fenner>

Just a tid bit... re Success with Centropyge potteri  - 05/13/2006 I wrote to you guys a while ago about keeping a Potters angel, and do realize that this is not an easy fish to keep. Just wanted to say that it's going on ten months now and this fish is doing wonderful. <Ah, good> I really believe that adding a refugium and setting  up the tank with live rock and good lighting made the difference with this guy. His colors are unbelievable. the other thing that I think was important is to give this fish a lot of room, he's in a 75 gallon tank and no other dwarf angels, I just hope he stays healthy for a long time. wanted to pass this along to others Ron. <Thank you for this. You have likely saved many individuals of this Centropyge species. Bob Fenner>

Aggression Towards Its Reflection - 04/03/06 Hi everyone. <<Hello!>> I've had a rusty angel for about 2 weeks now and he's been doing great. <<Ok>> Today, for the first time, I put a "seascape" background on the back panel of my tank.  It's dark blue with plants, etc. <<Mmm, yes...know the type.>> Next thing I know, the rusty angel is "attacking" his reflection and bumping into the back and side walls of the tank.  I think that the darker background on the tank has heightened his reflection in the side walls as well. <<Possibly>> I read on your site that I should tape paper to the sides of the tank to lessen the reflection.  I've done that, but he still is bumping against the back wall.  This has only just started happening within the past couple of hours (and I just put the background up around the same time this started).  My questions are: 1.  Is this behavior dangerous for the rusty and could he hurt himself? <<If the fish is not "slamming" itself against the tank wall it should be fine.  I have seen this behavior often (my wrasses/Anthias go through this most every evening as the lights go dim) and rarely have I seen it result in injury to the fish.>> 2.  Will he eventually outgrow this behavior, or do I have to remove the background paper (which I had thought was beneficial to the fish psyche)? <<I would leave the background if you like it...the angel may or may not "adjust".>> My other fish seem to be experiencing no such ill effects. <<Indeed...likely less territorial than the angel.>> Thanks as always for your expertise.   Pam <<Always welcome.  Regards, EricR (not an expert <G>, but a mere student of the hobby)>>

Centropyge argi in a 20H - 2/26/2006 Would one of these guys be healthy and happy in a 20H?  The only other fish would be a black ocellaris or a true percula.  The tank would have lots of hiding places because of live rock and a little bit of filamentous algae for him to munch on. <<I wouldn't do it.  Too small of a system for adequate grazing, lateral movement, and living room.>> Thanks for the help today and in the past. <<Glad to help.  Lisa.>> Best regards, Travis

Centropyge Potteri (Second name of species always in lowercase, mate) Centropyge potteri 11/3/05 Hi Bob, it's Ron from your native R.I,  <Hi Ron, actually not Bob with you tonight, Adam J.>  I picked up a Potter's angel about six weeks  <<Proper name, capitalized, possessive means an apostrophe is to be used before the 's'. MH>> <That's a tough one.>  <<Possessive, use apostrophe before 's'.>> ago and it's doing very well by itself in a 20 gallon tank with a refugium and skimmer on the tank. I know this fish will need a larger system soon  <Yes.>  and my 75 gallon tank is already full with a flame angel that is two years old. My question is to keep this potters (Potter's) healthy could I put him in a 30 gallon tank with maybe one two other fish.  <In that size tank I would leave him alone, even then this fish require at least a 55-gallon tank as an adult with lots of LR to roam, that refugium you mentioned is a great asset to this fish as well.> I really believe it's doing so well because of the refugium and natural setting i have provided, i kept two others some time ago one faded away slowly the other was lost to a power head when the prefilter fell off. , what's the best way to go with this guy. Thanks Ron <Adam J.> 

Possible fin or tail rot?  9/7/05 Hi <Hello Jeri> I have a coral beauty angel that is having some issues. We have a 46 gal tank. <Too small...> Wet/dry filter, 2 powerheads, and a penguin bio wheel power filter (to acclimate the wet/dry). We have 2 clowns, 1 coral beauty, 20 red leg hermits, 7 turbo snails, 1 emerald crab, 1 cleaner shrimp (Super cool), and a Condylactis anemone. And about 20lbs. live rock. Water conditions are ammonia & nitrite 0, nitrate 30ppm, Salinity 1.022, <I would raise, keep this near 1.025> Ph 8.2 & Temp 80 degrees. (which is high, we normally run at 76 - 78 degrees). We just got back from vacation and will remedy that problem. My Coral Beauty has what looks to be fin or tail rot now.  We thought the fish had Lymphocystis and let it run its course. We just tried to keep water quality good and fed healthy diet. <Good... this is what I would have done> Now the spots have fallen off and it looks like in most of the places the spots were he has holes. When we left him on Friday he had 2 holes in his tail. LFS asked if he was eating, which he is better than ever, and if the holes looked frayed. At that time they were not. LFS said it could be one of the clowns and that usually when you have a complete hole in the middle part of a fin that it is usually a bite from another fish. Said to watch fish for changes. <Mmm, no... very likely is water quality directed... from your wet-dry type of filtration, stress from being in a small system...> Well we just got back from vacation and the holes are frayed in the tail, the right side of his mouth is white (looks swollen and discolored), and he seems to have a nasty sore or ulcer on the ridge of his back. Also where he had the largest of the white spots. He is eating and swimming better than he ever has before. We are not sure what this is or what to do for him. <Could, can modify the wet-dry, add other filtration moda... DSB, Refugium, macro-algae... more live rock...> We do have a hospital tank available for him, but we just don't know how to treat him and our LFS is closed for 2 days. Our QT is 20 gal tank with a blue damsel in it. We have a separator net we use when quarantining a fish. Not sure what to do in the case of treating a fish. This tank has a penguin BioWheel power filter as well, powerhead, airstone, and some PVC. I guess my questions are: Do you know what is wrong with the Coral Beauty? <Environment mostly, likely nutritional, social aspects secondarily> What should we do about it? <Consider improving the above> If he needs to be treated in the QT, do we need to remove the biological filter? <Mmm, no benefit in moving this animal, not a pathogenic disease...> I think that is everything. Sorry for the long email, but I did searches on the FAQ about fin rot, white mouth, & Lymphocystis couldn't find the help I needed. Thanks, Jeri <No worries re length. State what you think is important (you have done this well). Please start reading here: http://www.wetwebmedia.com/mardisease.htm to gain an understanding, more holistic view of what "disease" is... then here: http://www.wetwebmedia.com/marine/fishes/angels/centropyge/index.htm for the linked FAQs files above on Centropyge "Systems", "Disease/Health", and "Feeding". Bob Fenner>
Re: Possible fin or tail rot?  9/8/05
Thanks for great advice. I will start raising the salinity slowly. There is one sore on his back that seems to be open and I can see some pink. It is where the largest white spot was. I know you said to improve environment, but would he benefit from PolyAqua? That was recommended from LFS and to improve his environment. <The PolyAqua will not improve the environment or benefit this fish> We are looking to get more live rock for the tank. Also I have heard about putting small pieces of Live Rock in the wet/dry instead of bio balls. Does that really work to keep the system clean? <Yes...> I had no idea that our tank would be too small for this fish. <You can read re... on WWM, books> I don't know what some LFS are doing. You ask for advice and assume it will be good. <My real "advice" is assume nothing in this world indefinitively> Glad I found you all here to double and triple check any other advice I get. We are saving up to buy a Tenecor Marine ready 150 gal tank. We may be buying sooner than we thought. I will check out the articles/FAQs that you recommended. Thanks! <Real good. Cheers, Bob Fenner>
Re: Possible fin or tail rot?  9/8/05
This morning the Coral Beauty is not eating, breathing very hard, laying vertical against a rock, and letting the hermit crabs & emerald crabs eat away at his fins. He is swimming into them and staying there like they are cleaner shrimps. Water parameters all same except temp is 78 and salinity is about 1.023. Clowns are eating and doing well.   <...> We are going to remove him from the tank so the crabs can't do anymore damage. What else can we do for him? Jeri <... read... what is your take on the size, type, quality of habitat... its suitability for this species? Bob Fenner>
Re: Possible fin or tail rot?  9/8/05
Our LFS has been testing our water quality every time we are there. They do not sell fish to people with unsafe water conditions. I was told by them and from things we have read that 40ppm nitrates is not toxic. <Depending on the "cause/s" of nitrate accumulation... In general, more than 20 ppm. is to be avoided...> We are trying to improve the water quality by adding more live rock, on the recommendation of WWM. <Good... takes time> I had read that dwarf angels need to be in at least 30gal tanks. <Only the "dwarf dwarfs" can be housed in such small quarters... most Centropyge require a minimum of sixty uncrowded gallons (not tank size, volume of water) for one specimen... Others here would say one hundred gallons> 1 angel per 50 gal of water because they can be aggressive toward each other (even when they have lots of room). They like to eat off of live rock. They are not the hardiest of fish, but not the most sensitive angel. <Yes> It was my understanding that he would do fine in our tank as long as we didn't overstock it. We were told that we would not have a problem with the 2 clowns and the Coral Beauty outgrowing the tank. And like I mentioned earlier we are looking to get a much larger tank by the time these fish are full size. <Need it now> We are trying to make more informed decisions by using all different types of references. A lot of the information we are receiving contradicts each other and as a saltwater novice it's hard to figure out what is best. We are doing the best we can and are not purposely setting out to kill fish, as that would be a very expensive & cruel hobby. <Agreed> I do thank you for all of your help and will continue to read your site and learn as much as I can. Thanks, Jeri <Jeri, it may seem self-serving, but I encourage you to "step back" here, read a "complete" book on marine aquarium keeping to gain a firm overall understanding, basis. I encourage you to visit your local library, check out what they have. I will state that I am the author of one of these works, "The Conscientious Marine Aquarist"... Bob Fenner>

Flame Angel in a 20 gallon? Thanks for your earlier advice.  Off the top of your head, would you think I could put a Flame Angelfish in this tank (it would be alone in there, except for the small crab)?  Tom >>>Hello again Tom, There are a few factors that determine whether or not a fish is appropriate for a given tank size. Not only the size of the fish comes into play, but it's activity level as well. Flame angels are VERY active fish, and use very inch of a 200 gallon aquarium. For this reason alone I would discourage keeping one in such a small tank. An argi angel (Centropyge argi) or C. acanthops would be much more comfortable in this system. They are also much more reliable in the hardiness department. Good luck! Jim<<< 

C. argi System Size Requirements? Hello, <Hi, Ryan with you today> I have tried looking through all of your information but cannot seem to find the answer. <No problem> I was wondering what your opinion is of putting a pair of Cherub Pygmy angels (Centropyge argi)  together in a 55G tank, I have read different information concerning this specific species and introducing them as pairs. <I have had no issues with this combination in the past.  They can, however, be a little nippy with some LPS.  Good luck, Ryan> Thanks for all of your help.  

The Shy Angelfish? I bought a Multicolor Angel on 2/8.  Right out of the bag, it swam around the tank and ate. <Good to hear! It's a neat fish! Do quarantine in the future, though, okay?> On 2/13 I cleaned the lens on my pc lights .  I have 260 watts of pc lighting on the tank.  Now it stays behind the rocks and will not come out into the open.  When I feed, it eats what the current takes behind the rockwork.  I can get good looks at it and see no signs of anything physically wrong.  I am curious if the intensity of the lights has scared it into the subdued light behind the rockwork?  I know the tank inhabitants are not harassing  it.  I also know the multi-color angel is a deep water fish.  Any suggestions would be appreciated. <Well, that is a very interesting observation and question. There are a lot of thoughts on this- if you ask 10 people, you'll get 10 different answers. I believe that the fish, being a deep water species, does need a period of acclimation to adapt to a higher light intensity (another good case for quarantine!). It is also a somewhat shy fish, coming as it does from a rather cryptic, rubble-based environment, 60 -180 feet down. It may be a simple coincidence that the "shyness" started after you cleaned your lens. On the other hand, the fish simply might be settling in, and sort of "learning the landscape" of the tank. I'd venture to guess that, in time, the fish may start to overcome it's shyness and aversion to being out in the open, as many of my friend's specimens have. In fact, WWM Crew member Ian has a specimen of the notoriously shy Centropyge aurantius ("Golden Pygmy Angel") which he reports now swims in the open with his other inhabitants. Keep observing the fish carefully, and enjoy the show! Good luck! Regards, Scott F>

Where Angels DON'T Fear To Tread! Thanks for your time and assistance, it's truly valued out here in reeferland. <And we really enjoy corresponding with our fellow fish nuts! Scott F. with you tonight...> I have been preparing my tank for the last few months to display a Centropyge multicolor and, as this fish costs about 5x any other living investment I have made, I am a little paranoid about my preparation. <I Don't blame you! It's a great fish, and can live a long time once it's settled in> I've written here a few times so a Google with broh will bring up my past questions - The tank is MUCH more grown out than these older pics show http://www.skimmerless.com/content/rig/12/. The quick of it - I had a pump failure about 6 months ago, and the consequent death left me saddened, but excited that I could restock closer to my original stocking plan. <Looks like a nice Centropyge environment to me!> The tank has gone about 3 months now with a school of 9 Chromis viridis as the only fish. The tank is 30x30x30 with a 55gal refuge. I have let the macro grow like wild, removing only the algae that interferes with the corals by shading, or growth. My parameters are the best they have ever been, with all levels at zero except Nitrate which tends to hang out a little below 5 ppm. <Still quite acceptable, and can drop to undetectable levels with continued good husbandry procedures> I have been reading through the FAQs here and whatever I could find on the web about this fish. I am curious about specific algae that this fish will take. I'd feel awfully silly if all the Caulerpas (racemosa, mexicana) Dictyota I grow are not of interest to the fish. <Well, this fish is usually found among rubble on steep outer reef slopes, so macroalgae may form a more limited part of its diet. However, if well maintained, the macroalgae can perform other valuable services, such as serving as a fine nutrient export mechanism, and acting as a haven for useful food items, such as amphipods, etc.> The only other question I have is about lighting. The tank was aquascaped with hiding in mind - so there are lots of caves and almost completely dark areas, however, there is still close to 1000W pouring into this tank. Should I reduce my 10000k lamp schedule and rely on the 20000k more to simulate a deeper environment? <It certainly couldn't hurt...It will certainly lend a more "realistic" look to the tank> The only other fish in the tank will be the Chromis, a blue spot jaw, and possibly a fairy wrasse in the future. Thanks. Bill Roh <Sounds like a nice mix. I like your approach to keeping this unique fish! It's very cool to plan a biotope around a fish's special needs. Good luck! Regards, Scott F>

Angels (system) the "Rusty Angel" in direct comparison to the Coral Beauty for my 29g tank? <Both species need more room. Please read here: http://www.wetwebmedia.com/marine/fishes/angels/centropyge/index.htm and the FAQs beyond. Bob Fenner>

Rockin' In The Rubble! (Creating a Rubble Zone For Centropyge) Crew: Current setup: 55gal FOWLR w/inverts (snails and hermits), 39lbs. LR, 4-6" DSB, 800gph flow, 10gal QT. I am interested in two Centropyge Angels: loricula and flavissima.  I have formed the opinion that they could both work in my aquarium (feel free to insert rebuttal here). <Rebuttal: It can work in a large tank, but in a tank less than 5-6 feet in length, it could be a constant battle between the two fishes...I'd be hesitant to try this in a 55> On your Centropyge pages it is written: "Habitat: Consists of coral and rock rubble, with lots of caves and crannies."  I would like to add some rubble to benefit these fish (if not for the sheer joy of saying "rubble" every time I show someone my tank ;D). <Dude- you're speaking my language! I always refer to one of my tanks as a "simulated rubble zone" (yep- I'm a fish geek...)> Should I: a) buy it packaged? <Nah!> b) "hammer" out my own from live or base rock? <That's what I'd do, or get smaller pieces of LR from your LFS- they'll love you for it when you buy 10lbs of 2-3 inch pieces of rubble...you'd be surprised at how much rubble it takes to get a pound of live rock rubble) c) use crushed coral that I already have? d) don't bother, it's a waste of time/nothing but trouble? e) none of the above? <Again, I'd either buy some smaller rubble-sized pieces, or take out a hammer and smash out some on your own> Also, what is a good "rule of thumb" (not that again!) for number of "caves and crannies" for my aquatic animals?  Is 1 or 2 hiding places per fish good enough?  Thanks a million, Rich. <I'd create as many nooks and crannies as you can to offer numerous territories and hiding places for your fishes, even if you're just going to keep one Centropyge (I'd go for the Flame Angel myself..). And I DO encourage you to keep just one in this tank...but you could add some cool blennies and other small fishes for an interesting rubble setup. Rock on (I couldn't resist that one)! Regards, Scott F>
Centropyge Rubble & How Many Crannies, Granny?
>Crew:  Current setup: 55gal FOWLR w/inverts (snails and hermits), 39lbs. LR, 4-6" DSB, 800gph flow, 10gal QT. I am interested in two Centropyge Angels: loricula and flavissima.  I have formed the opinion that they could both work in my aquarium (feel free to insert rebuttal here).   >>Be certain to add the lemon peel first.  I'll be honest, though, and tell you that you should expect interspecies aggression.  Be prepared. >On your Centropyge pages it is written: "Habitat: Consists of coral and rock rubble, with lots of caves and crannies."  I would like to add some rubble to benefit these fish (if not for the sheer joy of saying "rubble" every time I show someone my tank ;D).   >>LOL!! >Should I: a) buy it packaged?  b) "hammer" out my own from live or base rock?  c) use crushed coral that I already have?  d) don't bother, it's a waste of time/nothing but trouble? e) none of the above? >>By coral and rock rubble, I believe Bob means that you should have good amounts of live rock that has lots of "hidey-holes", not necessarily bits of rubble on the tank floor.  Use a minimum of 1lb./gal, up to 3lbs./gal as a start. >Also, what is a good "rule of thumb" (not that again!) for number of "caves and crannies" for my aquatic animals?  Is 1 or 2 hiding places per fish good enough?  Thanks a million, Rich. >>No, one or two per fish isn't going to cut it.  Use the amount of live rock I outlined above, then arrange it so that there are not only the hidey-holes, but lots of openings for the fishes to swim through.  This will help the hapless avoid aggression (though this *is* your job to ensure they don't have to work hard to avoid aggression) and give them lots of exploring places.  This is good for them mentally.  Good luck!  Marina

Questions about Bi-Color Angels Hi Bob, <<JasonC here, Bob is away diving>> Had a quick question: I have a 25 Gallon mini reef, that's been going for over a year, and I just picked up a Bicolor Angel, I was wondering if this fish might be too big for my tank, or do you think it would be fine? Thanks! David <<well, I suppose the simple answer is yes - these can grow to 6" and that's a pretty big fish for a 25. Additionally, angels require top water quality and as such, a 25 is of a size small enough to have accidental/drastic changes that could do-in your angel. Do read up, if you haven't already on Bob's thoughts on the Dwarf angels: http://www.wetwebmedia.com/centropy.htm - Cheers, J -- >>
More on the Bi-Color
So, yes I should return it? <<Uhh, or plan to upgrade to a larger tank in the near future, sure>> sorry, got a little confused, I asked a 2 part question,  <<looked for the second part in your earlier email - didn't see it, now you're confusing me...>>  I think that might be too big,  <<the bicolor, you mean?>>  I had a pigmy angel for about a year, and he just died, I thought this guy might be a little big.  <<perhaps... did you check out that URL? Research before buying, is best way to go for you and your marines.>>  I just added some live sand an wanted to get a new fish in while my Skunk Back Pseudochromis was trying to figure out where it was, its been a bit territorial, and mean to new fish!, So I think I'll bring this guy back tomorrow.  <<probably best>> David <<Cheers, J -- >>
...and More on the Bi-Color
Ok, I just returned the Bi-Color, I hate when I get too impulsive with fish purchasing...  <<yeah, impulsive fish-buying often turns out wrong, even with the best of intentions>>  Anyway, so these guys will order me what ever I want, I've had a Pigmy angel, and while I like it a lot, I'd love to try something different... which small dwarf angel would you suggest? how are these rusty dwarfs? any suggestions? <<it's all laid out at http://www.wetwebmedia.com/centropy.htm and as a quick aside - Bob's rating system is 1/2/3 - good/medium/poor. Check that page.>> thanks! DAVE <<you are quite welcome, cheers. J -- >>

Advice on Stocking a 20 Robert, <<Not Robert, but JasonC filling in while he's away diving.>> Hi, My wife and I are new to this hobby of saltwater aquarist. We currently have a jewel damsel in our 20 gallon Eclipse tank. The invertebrates consist of a red-legged hermit crab and 4 live rocks. Would it be wise to introduce a Flame Angel (Centropyge loricula), since the damsel seems well established in his surroundings. <<You could house a flame angel in this tank for a little while, but I think that would be about it and you'd need to upgrade at some point if you wanted to keep the angel happy. Things can go awry pretty quick in a tank of this size, and angels are quite sensitive to water quality.>> Later we are thinking of adding a Coral Beauty (Centropyge bispinosus) and these three fish would be all we would have due to the limited space. <<Due to your limited space, I don't think you could house both these fish and expect them both to live.>> Your response to these questions would greatly be appreciated, since we are new to this hobby, <<You should read up on Pygmy Angels: http://www.wetwebmedia.com/centropy.htm >> Thanks, Chris and Cheryl <<Cheers, J -- >>

Dwarf Angel in a dwarf system... big problems? Hello, <Hi there> Quick question for your Q&A board- I have recently purchased a Bi-colored angel- I watched him eat in the store before purchasing. I brought him home and he ate the day I put him in the tank and the 2 days following that- He was eating Krill, bring shrimp and Caulerpa (plants). A few days later I tested the water (which was fine) and added a Royal Gramma. Since then the Angel has not eaten- He picks the rocks a little but stays hidden- His color is good and he doesn't look sick but he hides often and won't eat. The Royal Gramma doesn't seem to bother anyone in the tank so I don't think that it is a Quarrel. <Might be bothered just the same> Since then I have tried smashing Angel food (formula???) into the cracks in the rocks near his hide out but he won't come out and look at me, much less eat in front of me- Any suggestions? Could it be grazing enough to stay full? <I hope so... see below> One more thing- was it a mistake to add a Bi-colored angel to a 30Gl reef tank in the long run? <Yes. Too small a space to culture enough food on live rock etc... I would trade this fish in for something smaller. Perhaps one of the dwarf-dwarf Angels of the tropical West Atlantic... Centropyge argi, C. aurantonotus... Please read here: http://www.wetwebmedia.com/marine/fishes/angels/centropyge/index.htm  and the linked FAQs files therein. Bob Fenner> Thanks, Hank

Dwarf Angel, Marine question A few days ago I purchased a Coral Beauty to add to my 50 gal. fish-only tank. To make my other fish (three-striped damsel, yellow-tail damsel, niger trigger, two cleaner wrasses) less territorial, I rearranged the tank at the time of introduction. Since then, the Coral Beauty has tended to hover in about three places in the tank, tilted back (head up) at about a 60 degree angle - when swimming from place to place, it does level out. It has also not eaten readily when I placed veggie flakes or lettuce in the tank. <A very bad sign... likely this specimen was "damaged" in collection, handling, shipping from the wild... And your tank... is too crowded... and likely frightening to the Angel... with the Trigger, two cleaners...> The other fish are not being aggressive towards it and quite often the trigger casually passes right beside or in front of it. The wrasses have picked at the sides of it from time to time. The damsels are much smaller and have left it alone. Should I be concerned about this unusual (to me) hovering angle of the fish - it just looks like it's having to swim harder to stay in one place. <Yes, very concerned... if you had a more aged, live-rock-containing system that this fish could be in by itself that would be ideal... Otherwise, only time will/can tell whether the specimen stays alive, resumes swimming normally. Bob Fenner> Thanks, Shawn

Re: Revised Stock List Thanks for the input, A few questions however: 1) Instead of the Butterflyfish would it be possible to add a flame angel? <To the same forty gallon? No... I wouldn't place one of these Centropyge in anything smaller than a sixty> If I add the angel after the tank is running for a long time (months at least) would there be enough to eat if I also provide supplementary veggies? Would the angel pick on the anemone (probably not with the clownfish) or the soft coral? If yes, would this cause too much damage to worry? Also, would the flame angel become too aggressive with the other fish listed below?  <If this system were larger, probably, maybe, doubtful and not to me> Lots of questions in one. 2) Would you recommend more than one neon goby? <In this size system, no> 3) How would a blackcap Basslet (Gramma melacara) go with the other items below? <The tank is too small... you'd have to leave most everything else out... Bob Fenner> Thanks again, Kevin

Angelfishes for  Marine Aquariums
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