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Chemistry, I guess...
Brackish and plants 11/9/07
Hi Guys,
<Greetings,>
I have a 40 gal. tank that has 5" of 50% Floromax and 50% Fluorite. I let it
cycle for about 6 weeks before adding plants. This eventually is to be a
brackish tank with the following flora/fauna:
(1) bunch Egeria densa
(1) bunch Cabomba fucata
(1) bunch Myriophyllum simulans
(2) Nomophila corymbasa
(1) Cryptocoryne ciliata
(1) Nymphoides aquatica
These plants were added individually a week ago in 2" net pots.
<Hmm... not a fan of pots. Most plants do better freed from pots even if
supplied in them. Gently trimming any damaged roots also helps stimulate new
growth and prevents decay.>
After these species grow and offer some shade, I'd like to add:
(2) Bacopa caroliniana
Some? Sagittaria subulata
(2) Microsorum pteropus
Some? Fontinalis sp.
(2) Anubias barteri v. Round Leaf
Then, when these species grow out, I will add:
(6) Caridina japonica
(2) Jordanella floridae (a pair)
Then I will need to slowly bring the SG to 1.006 and add:
(5) Poecilia sphenops (1 male, 4 females) [these are already at 1.006 at the
LFS]
Done!
<Raising the SG to 1.006 is overkill here and likely to stress the plants. While
some of these are brackish water specialists (Cryptocoryne ciliata for example)
most are not, and will not do well above SG 1.003. I tend to recommend planted
brackish water tanks be set up to SG 1.003 and then the plants left for a few
months to settle in. You'll soon learn which are flourishing and which are not.
Brackish water fish are fine at this salinity, so no harm is done. Acclimating
Mollies from SG 1.006 to SG 1.003 is something that takes 30 minutes in a bucket
via the drip method or similar. Likewise acclimating Jordanella to brackish
water from fresh. Amano shrimps are a bit tricky, because invertebrates on the
whole are less tolerant of rapid changes in salinity. There are exceptions of
course, the true estuarine invertebrates like Shore Crabs and Nereis ragworms,
but Amano shrimps don't fit into this category. Yes, they are common enough in
brackish water marshes, and yes, the larvae live in the sea. But Amano shrimps
don't live their whole lives in estuaries, and my guess is you'll need to
acclimate these over several hours.>
Lighting is at 192 W PC, half 6700K/10,000K "sun" light, half 420/460 nm
actinic with moonlight. Not ideal, I would like to replace the actinic with
another "sun" lamp. I'm not big on the blue lighting. maybe for corals, but..
<Plants are generally much more adaptable to different types of light than
corals (i.e., algae). Plants are, of course, far more advanced and sophisticated
organisms. Because plants have a range of pigments, they can adapt to whatever
wavelength is available. Up to a point, at least. So provided you have
sufficient light (around 2 Watts per gallon) most plants will adapt to whatever
lamps your hood contains. Something between 5500 and 6500 Kelvin seems to work
well.>
Temperature is running at 77* F, but I'm trying to get it to 75* F.
pH 7.7, but I would like 7.5
<Trivially unimportant, and probably impossible to do given the calcium
carbonate content of marine salt mix.>
NH4 0.00
NO2 .025
<Too much.>
NO3 2.5
dKH 3.3
<Ideally needs to be raised to at least 5 degrees KH, but water changes and
marine salt mix should take care of this.>
My tap water is hard (12 dKH extrapolated from GH) in SE PA and I add it after a
week or so of aeration and circulation.
<OK.>
I have a media bag with aragonite (an attempt to raise dKH naturally, I don't
like chemicals) and activated charcoal in my filter (converted skimmer) with 2
mesh pads on top of each other that I rotate (clean one at a time) for
continuous biological filtration.
<Carbon filtration is pointless in my opinion. Replace that part of the filter
with crushed coral. That'll take care of the hardness.>
10% water changes weekly.
<I prefer 50% weekly, but this does rather depend on water quality. If the
nitrates stay low, then your regime may well be viable.>
I would like my tank water to be in the neighborhood of 11dKH.
<Brackish water fish don't really care that much. The marine salt mix, and a bit
of crushed coral in the filter should maintain adequate carbonate hardness.
Unless you observe wildly fluctuating pH levels, then your hardness content may
well be sufficient.>
Do I just need more time/maturation, or is there something I'm not doing
properly?
<Seems fine.>
Does Fluorite/Floromax buffer to the acid side? It's hard for me to believe that
my tap water is that hard/alkaline (we lie on a limestone bed) and when it hits
the tanks it loses all that carbonate.
<Plants will remove carbonate if there is insufficient carbon dioxide in the
water. This "biogenic decalcification" is rapid and potentially serious.>
I can deal with the couple of degrees of temperature, but I need to lower the pH
by about 0.2 and significantly raise the alkalinity it would seem.
<Why? What do you think you will gain by such a small pH change? Carbon dioxide
fertilisation may well be useful in this instance. But otherwise the thing with
brackish water fish is to remember they are adaptable. They don't have narrow,
fixed chemical parameters. Provided you do adequate water changes an thereby
ensure the pH stays on the basic side (between 7.5 and 8.2) and the nitrate
levels stay relatively low (less than 50 mg/l) they will be perfectly happy.
Your Mollies, for example, can adapt between freshwater and salt water in about
30 minutes, and Jordanella do just as well in soft and acidic water as in mildly
brackish. This is obviously completely different to keeping a marine aquarium,
where maintaining water conditions within a very tight band of values is
essential.>
I would appreciate your thoughts.
Also, your site is fantastic. I've researched lots of aquaria here and have done
well with most of them. (My bad on the ones that went south.) Thank you so much
for your efforts.
Mike
<Good luck, Neale.>
Molly Fry -11/14/07
Hello Crew!
After conquering the black moor, I decided to move onto the black molly hybrid.
I have a twenty gallon brackish tank with four mollies (three female and one
male). The tank is approximately two months old, and has been cycled via help of
the common milfoil, java moss, and time. So far, the water tests have been
exceptional in general. Here's the problem. Besides the four adult fish, I have
21 brand new molly fry. They are currently one week old and in a well circulated
breeding net. What is the right size for the reintroduction of these fish back
into the aquarium?
Please let me know my best options, and also please direct me to more
information on other fun plants to grow in the tank! (Who knew that live plants
added so much?)
Thanks,
Megan
<Hello Megan. Rearing Black Molly fry isn't too difficult, though there are some
things to watch. Yes, the parents can eat very small fry. But if you grow the
fry on for 3-4 weeks, they should be easily big enough to go back into the tank
with their parents. To get good growth, feed the fry often but small amounts.
Experts recommend at least 6 meals per day! This obviously means you need to
give tiny amounts each time, or water quality will plummet. If you decide to
keep the fry in a large breeding trap (certainly do-able, if not as good as a
breeding tank) be sure and put some floating plants in the breeding trap. This
helps give the fry shade, so they don't overheat. Lots of plants work well in
slightly brackish water. Almost anything that does well in hard water can be
expected to do well at SG 1.002-1.003. Cryptocoryne wendtii, Anubias nana, Java
fern, Vallisneria spiralis, Elodea, and the Indian fern Ceratopteris are all
good choices. As you've spotted, plants have a great impact on aquaria,
especially breeding traps. They give baby fish a place to hide, helping you
rescue them. Plants also get covered in green algae and other microbes, and baby
fish love to eat all this stuff. Cheers, Neale>
Old Discussion on Dragon Goby, New Discussion on Glassfish, BW
plt.s 2/22/07
On 2/20/07, crew
<crew@mail.wetwebmedia.com> wrote:
Dragon Gobies Stuck in Aquarium Ornaments 2/20/07
[...]<Actually, that's exactly where my Dragon lives. The fake mangrove
root I have in my BW tank, has an end of one of the roots broken off & he
slips inside it & lives in there. He has no problem turning around inside
the ornament & comes out often, to eat.>
LOL how cool :) I'm such a worry-wart (my girls call him "Mama's little bog
monster.") - just had this vision of the poor little guy getting stuck in
something like that.
< [...]<Sounds like a happy life for your Dragon!>
So far so good! I've bought 2 glassfish (au naturale, no ink thanks) -
Chanda ranga, for the brackish tank They are still in quarantine, but for
all I've read, they should be good tankmates for him. I know that they were
eating flake food in the store but I can't seem to get them to eat anything
so far (have tried flake food, frozen brineshrimp, frozen AND freeze-dried
bloodworms, freeze-dried plankton). I've read varying accounts of
glassfish,
some say they are good eaters, others say they need live food. They are
very timid, I'm wondering if they would eat better if there were more of
them in my tank (5 or 6 total)?
<<A school of them would be nice. They may just be adjusting to their new
home.>>
I don't even know where to get live food - I tried to grow my own brine
shrimp for my livebearer fry but I'm filing that one under "failed
experiment."
<<I get blackworms from my LFS. Rinsed well in a brine shrimp net & stored
in a shallow container with a little water, in the refrigerator. My
dragon's favorite food!>>
Seems like I read that you have a planted brackish tank?
<Nope, I have a 90g planted discus tank. No surviving plants in my BW
tank. ~PP>
Heheh well that might be us pretty soon too, I have read it's very hard to
keep plants in salty water. What about marine plants though? Do you think
any of them could do well in BW?
<Marine plants won't fair well till a SG of around 1.018. There are many BW
plants that folks have success with, just not worth the trouble for me,
since I already have a FW planted tank I'm happy with. Here's a great
thread on BW plants:
http://www.thepufferforum.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=4792&highlight=brackish+plants ~PP>
Thanks again, Cathy
Brackish water aquarium 12/31/06
http://www.wetwebmedia.com/BrackishSubWebIndex/bracsetupfaqs.htm
I was just wondering if you could give me a better picture of the tank
<Mmm, nope... not our pic>
and also i
<I>
would like too know where you can find mangrove branches because i could not
find any at the LFS
<Try some of the big etailers... some are listed on our links:
http://www.wetwebmedia.com/BrackishSubWebIndex/bracsyslinks.htm
Bob Fenner>
Possible error... fix - 06/07/06
Hi Bob,
<Spike>
Was looking at your nice site and ran across a possible error. On
http://www.wetwebmedia.com/BrackishSubWebIndex/bracplants.htm
under the definition of Brackish, it says "...most seawaters have about 2.5%
salt content..." I think most sea water is about 3.5%, right?
<Yep... about 35 ppt... 'cept the Red Sea which is about ten percent higher.
Will fix. Thank you. BobF>
Best,
Spike
Brackish Plants? 3/7/05
<Hi Barret, Pufferpunk here>
Hello, I've got a brackish tank, and now I'd like to have LIVE plants. All the aquarium stores around here say that plants don't do well in them or they
don't have any plants. Can I order some from you? I've got 2 GSPs (green spotted puffers) and 2
Monos (1 of which is a
Sebae). I'm also upgrading the tank size to a 75 gal. Please e-mail me back if you could.
<The shops are right. FW plants will "melt" in most any amount of salt. Especially the high amounts of salt that the fish you have will need (even marine conditions as adults). In very low-end BW, you can try keeping java fern/moss, but your fish really need more salt than even those plants can tolerate. There are many nice silk plants which will look fairly realistic in your tank. You may find that as the puffers mature, they will pick on your
Monos. Monos really belong in a school & grow to around a foot. Here's a good article on your puffers:
http://www.wetwebmedia.com/BrackishSubWebIndex/gspsart.htm>
Thanks a lot, Barret
<Good luck with your fish. ~PP> Plants in brackish? 3/7/04
Right on man (girl :))... Looks like I'll get down to
scraping algae. Beautiful tanks by the way. I just
started adding live plants to my puffers aquarium. I
have one of those plants that have banana looking
roots and some other plants I have no idea but they
look a hell of a lot nicer then plastic. You suggest a
heavily planted tank for the puffer? I got a nice
little cave place for him, but your tanks look so dope
I may have to take those as an example and plant the
hell out of them.
<There are a few plants that will survive in low-end BW--java fern & moss
(up to around 1.005), but higher than that, there are no FW plants that will
live. As soon as you starting adding salt, all your FW plants will
"melt" & could foul your water. That's why I went for
the saltwater "look" (everything in that tank is fake).>
My GSP should grow to full size in a 20 Gallon if he
is kept solo, right? Even with a heavily planted tank?
<Yes, with the proper care & feeding, it should grow to
6". Have you read my article on GSPs? http://www.wetwebmedia.com/BrackishSubWebIndex/gspsart.htm>
Thanks for all your advice once again. I deleted all
my other bookmarks to fish pages because the advice
received from your crew has been right on for what I'm
looking for. Focus on a fish, not on some overcrowded
"show" tank. PEACE
<Thanks & peace to you too! ~PP>
Brackish Water Plants
I realize that there are many plants that can tolerate brackish water
conditions, but can you specifically recommend any that are ACTUALLY from native
brackish conditions and prefer brackish water? I have a G. Tile
"freshwater" moray eel who was originally kept in my heavily planted
freshwater tank. I sincerely believe that one of the main contributors to his
settling in and eating so quickly is that I originally placed him in a heavily
planted tank. I also got to view him more frequently then b/c he felt
comfortable enough w/ all the plant life around to stick his head out toward the
open more and even occasionally explore the tank a little while still in view
beneath the foliage of my plants. I am now converting my current tank to
brackish conditions (min SG 1.010, using a commercial sea salt mix) and my
formerly happy plants, which are listed as being ok for brackish systems, are
currently biting the dust. I am also using fertilizer, but I am limited as there
is some evidence that copper is HIGHLY toxic to G. Tile and must be avoided
under all circumstances. Any
suggestions for plants that are originally from brackish water conditions and
will thrive in them, rather than merely tolerate?
<Hey Keri, congrats on moving the your G. Tile to brackish conditions. Check
out the link below for some info on brackish water plants. Best
Regards, Gage
http://wetwebmedia.com/BrackishSubWebIndex/bracplants.htm >
Thanks,
Keri
Re: Java Ferns
Hello, On the website it says that Java is naturally brackish. Can it
survive
a brackish system with higher levels of salt than 1.005? And if so,
how much
higher do you think?
<I have had java ferns in a tank with a specific gravity of around 1.008, and
they grew fairly slowly. I actually raised the specific gravity in that tank to
1.015 for a brief period, and the java ferns didn't flinch. They didn't grow
much during that time, either.>
Secondly, a 55 gallon tank I have houses about 10 cichlids. I've
always used
an air-pump, a Fluval canister filter, and an AquaClear power filter. My
first question is, can I get rid of this air-pump with a lot of plants?
<You not only can get rid of it, but you should get rid of it. The air pump
will take the carbon dioxide out of the water column and away from the plants
that need it.>
I have a decent amount of hornwort, five large Java ferns (at least 8
full
leaves), and a few less developed Java ferns.
<Very nice.>
Also, I read in a book yesterday that power filters weren't so good, because
they leave no CO2 in the water. Should I think about going without
the
AquaClear, or is this bad advice?
<I've seen the same advice. I don't have any experience with canister
filters. I have a power filter on one of my planted tanks, and my plants are
still growing. If your Fluval is big enough to filter the tank by itself, you
could try it solo for awhile.>
Thanks,
Andy B
<You're welcome. --Ananda>
Moving freshwater plants to marine?
Hi
I have a salt water tank and also a fresh water tank. can I transfer a plant I have in the fresh water tank
into the salt water tank? or is that dangerous for the salt water fish thank you
bob
<Mmm, some "freshwater" plants are more brackish... but none can be
plunked from fresh to marine (or vice versa). Please read here:
http://www.wetwebmedia.com/brackishplts.htm
Bob Fenner>
Re: FW Puffer
Mr. Fenner,
I've been doing a little looking around for those brackish plants I asked about.
I found a web site http://geocities.com/Heartland/Fields/4541/salties.htm
It seems like a good list of plants.
<Yes, do agree with all presented... and would/will add a handful more
genera>
I will do some research to see if any match my water conditions. Just thought I
would pass it along. :)
<Do appreciate it, thank you>
I believe that the best rock I have found for my figure eight puffer tank (10 gallon) is
tufa. I have posted on wetwebfotos and hope for some feed back there
too.
Thank you again for your time!
Don
<Thank you my friend. Bob Fenner>
FW Puffer
Mr. Robert Fenner,
I enjoy your book CMA a great deal. It has helped me through the set up of my 80
gallon FOWLR system. Thank you for sharing your knowledge with so many through
your books and web site.
<Thank you for your kind encouraging words>
My question is not about my SW system but about a 10 gallon brackish system I am
going to set up.
<Am too tuckered out this eve or was going to key a piece I penned a couple
of weeks back, and place on WWM... on brackish system components... perhaps
tomorrow AM>
I have always wanted a puffer. Now that I know that I want to lean more heavily
on the invertebrate side in my SW, I thought I would attempt a small SW system.
Not a good idea from what I am reading. I now know that it would spell disaster
being that I have only been into SW for seven months. Too small of a system
anyway. :) So I went to the middle and thought that an attempt at a brackish
system with the figure eight puffer would be a good thing.
My question is how to aquascape the tank. I know from your web-site good
brackish plants (would like to see more.. hint-hint)
<Ah, yes...>
I could use. What I would like is to give as much of a biotopic environment as I
can. I have done a great deal of research online (not a very good surfer) about
water conditions but have never see pictures or even hints of their natural
environment. Could you point me in the right direction?
<Am in agreement with you re the paucity and quality of brackish
information... will augment, put together what I can from an old Braz Walker
book, many hobbyist and bulletin articles... and glean what I can from the
scientific literature...>
Rock, plants, wood work? More of one then the other?
<Depends on the species kept... but more plants in general... and rock/decor
that will lend alkalinity and biomineral content to the water for this
puffer>
Another question and I will leave you be. I want a SG of 1.011. I have the
equipment to measure that thankfully. I would like to know if it is the same
rule as SW, to top-off with fresh, not salt water?
<For fresh for intermediate maintenance, pre-made similar/same spg water for
actual change-outs>
Thank you so very much for your time and any help you can offer.
Don
<Be chatting (and writing!) my friend. Bob Fenner>
Re: FW Puffer
Mr Robert Fenner,
Now that was what I call a fast reply. All I did was go and clean out my skimmer
cup on my SW system and came back online to see your post. Wow, I commend you
for your level of devotion on answering your email.
<It's a "reflex defensive mechanism/exercise... If I don't
"keep-up" I get buried...>
I will look forward to you next brackish works! I am in the process of finding a
LFS that has or can acquire plants that will do well in my BW puffer tank.
<Will key the pieces I outlined then finish the one on "brackish
plants", key, place, send out to hobby 'zines. If you don't see this work
in a week or two, please contact/goose me>
>Rock, plants, wood work? More of one then the other?
><Depends on the species kept... but more plants in general... and rock/decor that will lend alkalinity and biomineral content to the water for this puffer>
Thank you for that suggestion! I thought crushed coral (aragonite) would be a
good Alk booster and ph stability helper. I will do the research on your web
site for the best rocks. :)
I will look forward to upcoming additions to you BW site. Take care and I hope a
good dose of rest is in you near future. :)
<Thank you my friend. Much better this AM. Bob Fenner>
Don | |
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