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FAQs on the
Freshwater Hatchetfishes
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Hatchetfishes,
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Hatchetfish with ich? - 02/08/09
OK...we bought three silver hatchetfish 5 days ago, they've been in our
quarantine tank which only has a few cherry shrimp and snails in it. They seem
vigorous and as of this morning are still hearty eaters. But two days ago I
noticed a few white spots on the fins of one of the hatchetfish, now he's got
about 7-8 spots and one of the other fish has 2 spots. They look like grains
of salt and I'm pretty sure it's ich. Glad they are in the quarantine tank.
I've read your faqs about ich and the consensus seems to be that the heat/salt
combination is less abrasive and works best, is that correct? Will my cherry
shrimp and snails be ok with the heat and salinity? I have read snails and
shrimp are not susceptible to ich, but they can carry it on them, correct? What
would be the best way to handle my ich problem given the snails/shrimp are in
the tank? Should I give them a salt dip and move them? Leave them with the
hatchetfish and do salt/heat? Or use something like Ich-X or Rid-Ich? I am
hesitant to use chemicals as they seem very harsh? Thanks, Melissa
<Hello Melissa. Hatchetfish are very prone to Ick/Whitespot, which is why I
recommend quarantining them for at least two weeks before putting them into a
community tank. As you correctly suspect, copper-based medications that will
treat the Ick will also kill shrimps and snails, so can't be used. (This is, by
the way, why you don't add other livestock to a quarantine tank: doing so
defeats the whole object of the exercise.) But you are where you are, so let's
deal with things as they stand. Salt/heat won't harm shrimps or snails. Snails
and shrimps can indeed carry the free living parasites on the water "stuck" to
their bodies if moved from one tank to another. The parasites can't live on them
shrimps or snails, so you can QT both by putting them in another tank for a few
weeks. This will break the life cycle as the free living (= juvenile) parasites
die if they cannot find a host within a set period of time (around 24 hours, but
depends on temperature and other factors). Salt dips won't work: you MUST expose
fish, shrimps and snails to the salt/heat combo for the requisite period of
time. Cheers, Neale.>
Re: Hatchetfish with ich? 02/09/09
Hi Neale, <Unfortunately "out"> Thanks for your reply. Hatchetfish don't
have any more (or less) spots and are still eating well. <Ah, good> They
are tolerating the salt dosed as recommended but I am having trouble getting the
temp about 82, I guess I need a stronger heater because it's been turned up to
max temp and it doesn't get any hotter. <Ahh, perhaps another heater of
similar wattage in tandem> I took the shrimp and snails out and put them in a
old tank we had from a Betta long ago, it's only 2.5 gallons but has a
heat/light they seem fine. <Good> Our local fish specialty store said salt
doesn't work, heat is fine but recommended ParaGuard by SeaChem, they said it is
less abrasive and works well. I hate that I get different advice everywhere, I
never know what is best. Have you heard of it? <I have, and this is a good
product. However, the heat alone should effect a cure here> Or in your
opinion should we just stick with the heat/salt? <This last is what I would
do. Bob Fenner> Melissa
Hatchet fish deaths in 55 gallon 11/14/08
Hi Crew-- I (and my fish) appreciate all the time and work you put into this
site. I'd like to know if any of you can answer a question I have about my
55 gallon tank. I just put it back up (was on the porch after its previous
inhabitants outgrew it and moved on to a larger tank). I wanted to try an Amazon
biotope, so I used "play" sand for my substrate, planted some Amazon swords, and
put some wood (bought from fish store) in it. I cycled it with BioZyme and some
minnows (I QT minnows for my gars, so I was fairly sure nothing icky was getting
introduced to the tank). Filtration is an Aqua Clear 110 with carbon removed and
extra media in its place. There's also a Coralia air circulation pump that
doesn't produce a really strong current; it just ruffles some of the leaves of
the plants. The tank cycled pretty quickly, in about two weeks, and after my
levels all returned to zero, I purchased 18 Cardinal Tetras, 8 Swartz's Cory
Cats, and 12 Marbled Hatchets. The minnows were removed right before the new
fish were done acclimating and added to the tank, so I know the cycle wasn't
interrupted. I thought I was safe adding fish since the tank was cycled and
the fish were all an inch or smaller --maybe this was my mistake. Since putting
the fish in the tank, I have lost one Cory and five hatchets. All the fish have
died at night, and we find them the next morning. My levels are: Ammonia -
0, Nitrites - .5, Nitrates - 10, and pH - 6.5. The temperature is 78 degrees,
and the light runs on a timer for twelve hours a day. I ordered my fish online,
and I expected to lose one or two, but these numbers have me worried. As you can
see, my levels went up slightly upon introducing the fish, but nothing has ever
gotten higher than the figures I mention above, other than nitrates, which are
coming down from 20. The fish never "look" sick, though my Hatchets have never
really been the "top swimmers" I expected them to be. They stay more in the
middle with the Tetras. I'd really appreciate your opinion on what could be
going on here, so that I might save the rest of them in time. If I've missed
something on the FAQ's regarding this problem, please direct me to it.
Thanks again for all you do. --Melinda <Hello Melinda. A few things may be
relevant here. To start with, you probably didn't cycle the new tank properly:
two weeks is an awfully short period of time to cycle a new aquarium. BioZyme
(and indeed most every "bacteria in a bottle" product") is not nearly as
effective as the marketing suggests. In the case of that particular product, my
understanding is that it isn't meant to mature filters but to help with nitrate
reduction. In any case, a good rule of thumb with bacteria cultures is this: if
it isn't kept in a fridge and doesn't have a short shelf life, it's probably
useless. Plants have no real effect on the speed at which cycling occurs, though
fast growing plants (as opposed to Amazon swords) can consume ammonia directly
fast enough that a well planted tank can support a small number of fish without
the filter being fully mature. Next up, while the minnows will produce ammonia
and are hardy enough to tolerate the cycling process, if the tank was being
filtered with these fish, I'd expect cycling to take at least four weeks,
perhaps six weeks. Regardless of how long cycling takes to finish, there's a
danger period afterwards during which the tank is not completely stable. So
delicate fish -- such as Hatchets -- should not be added to the tank for a good
two or three months after cycling has finished. What you're concerned about are
things like pH instability and short-term spikes in ammonia or nitrite. Since
you have a nitrite level of 0.5 mg/l, I'm pretty confident that your filter
hasn't completely matured and may well be in the "shaky" post-cycling phase
where ammonia and nitrite levels can fluctuate. Now, the next thing I'd be
worried about is pH. You mention having a low pH of 6.5, which is great for
tetras and Hatchetfish, but you say nothing about hardness. One of the very
common mistakes people make is to change the pH (e.g., by adding pH buffers
bought from the pet store) without changing water hardness first. Be clear about
this: pH doesn't matter, except insofar as it is stable. What fish care about is
hardness. Marble Hatchetfish need very soft water to do well, and to be honest
they're pretty finicky fish at the best of times, so if you aren't 100% sure
about how to soften water and how to stabilise pH in low hardness environments,
they're best avoided in favour of the much sturdier Silver Hatchetfish.
http://www.wetwebmedia.com/FWSubWebindex/fwsoftness.htm Finally, let me make
the point that your shouldn't be feeding minnows to Gar (by which I'm assuming
you mean Lepisosteus). Minnows (and Goldfish) are very fatty and contain a
chemical called Thiaminase that breaks down vitamin B1. So even putting aside
the animal cruelty issue, it's just not a very clever way to keep your fish. Gar
will eat just about anything, dead or alive. They will readily take chunky
seafood. Frozen foods are good because they're safer: anything sold for human
consumption will be safe for your fish. Squid is particularly good because it
contains no thiaminase at all, and is not very fatty either. Crustaceans
(prawns, etc.) do contain some thiaminase so should be used sparingly. My Gar
loved oily fish like mackerel, but these make a complete mess of the tank, so
while highly nutritious, use such fish meats sparingly and just before doing a
big water change! Among the thiaminase-free white fish are flatfish and gadids
(cod, pollack, etc.). If you must use live feeder fish, grow your own
livebearers, and gut-load them beforehand with algae-based flake food. These
are the ONLY safe feeder fish. Goldfish, minnows and "feeder guppies" from the
pet store are nothing other than parasite time bombs. Cheers, Neale.>
Re: Hatchet fish deaths in 55 gallon 11/14/08
Hi Neale--
Thanks for your reply. So, I had no fish deaths overnight. If the problem was
indeed that I cycled too quickly, and not completely, hopefully this is a sign
that I'm on my way. The "danger period" was something I wasn't aware of, but in
the future, I'll wait longer to make sure it's passed before adding sensitive
fish. I had no idea that one hatchet was hardier than another; thanks for that
information. If I replace the ones I lost, I'll look into silver hatchets
instead. Also, I'll look into water hardness. We have tested for it before, but
not recently. It was my understanding that since that we have trouble keeping pH
up in our other tanks, it meant our water is soft, but now that I'm reading
about water hardness, I see that other things could cause drop in pH as well. I
completely understand your concern for my feeding the gars minnows, but we've
tried squid and night crawlers (which our catfish eats) and the gars aren't
interested. One of them does, however, eat algae disks placed in the tank for
the snails, which is fun to watch. I will continue to try to move them onto
non-live food; it would eliminate the time (and tank space) I expend to QT
minnows. Thanks again for all of your help.
--Melinda
<Hello Melinda. Yep, there is this indistinct phase post-cycling during which
environmental conditions can vary. I'm not sure about the science, but whatever
the reasons, it's best to wait a few months before adding anything delicate.
Marbled Hatchets are indeed notoriously sensitive. The relationship between pH
and hardness is not quite as simple as people sometimes think, which is why
measuring pH (or buffering to a certain pH) isn't the same thing as changing
water chemistry. By default, it's always best to go with medium hard water
because this tends to buffer the pH quite well by itself (usually around 7.5)
without being so hard and basic softwater fish get unhappy. Ironically, it's
easier to lose fish in a softwater aquarium than in a hardwater aquarium,
despite the fact most tropical fish come from softwater areas! As for feeding
gars: hunger is the key! These fish can go weeks without food. My specimen,
Lepisosteus oculatus (the Spotted Gar) loved Hikari Cichlid Gold pellets. These
are excellent staple foods for carnivorous fish. There's really no point at all
using Minnows or Goldfish because of the long-term problems the fats and
thiaminase cause. This has been discussed over and over in the fishkeeping
press. Bob Fenner has made the point that the #1 cause of mortality among
Lionfish is the use of Goldfish as feeders. Nutritionally, Goldfish and Rosy Red
Minnows are essentially the same: high-fat, high-thiaminase animals. Anyway, if
predatory fish *think* they're going to get live food, they'll ignore other
foods. Leave them without food a week or two, and they should eat just about
anything. Cheers, Neale.>
Mysterious repeated hatchet fish death II – 10/18/07
Hi,
I hope you can have an answer.
<We'll try.>
We have a 10 gallon tank with live plants, 3 platys and 3 hatchet fish.
two day after we introduced the hatchets, we found one of them dead.
Went to the store bought another one, next day dead.
<Hatchets aren't the easiest of fish. Which species are we talking about here?
There are two common types, Marble hatchets and Silver hatchets. The Marble
hatchet is Carnegiella strigata and it is small, mottled brown, and quite
delicate. It needs to be in groups of 6 or more to have any chance of surviving.
In ones and twos they just die. Not recommended for your tank simply because
they will feel trapped and get stressed. When stressed, they jump at the glass
lid or lamps, and damage themselves. The Silver hatchet is Gasteropelecus
sternicula. It is larger, silver, with a blue horizontal band on the flanks. It
is basically hardy once settled in, but mortality during the first few weeks can
be very high. Given its adult size and high activity level, not really an option
for a 10 gallon tank.>
The water is fine, Ph between 7 and 7.2 temperature around 76-78. The community
is fine and the plant are thriving.
We are feeding them with Spectrum the small fish formula.
We thought they might be jumping and hurting themselves on the hood.
<Happens.>
The deaths happened during the day.
Thanks a lot
Emanuela
<Give up with Hatchets. Your tank is not really suited to hatchets. While lovely
fish (I keep Silver hatchets) they are far from easy fish and best suited to
expert fishkeepers or aquarists prepared to set aside a large, quiet, thickly
planted tank where they can be kept in large numbers. If you want a surface
dweller of some type, look at something like Sparkling gouramis (Trichopsis
pumila) which are hardy, colourful, and do well in small tanks. Cheers, Neale.>
Just A Thanks (Oh, and a question) -
10/06/2007
Hello y'all!
I just wanted to drop a quick "thank you" note to you for (generally) having a
wonderful site and (specifically) for helping me out with an issue I was having.
I have as my centerpiece tank a 60 gallon hex (FW). I really wanted to have
angelfish, so after cycling the filter on my established 55, I purchased 6
angels and 4 Cory cats. The cories (Corys?) behaved properly, but the 6 young
angels wouldn't come out from their hiding spot behind the driftwood. They
wouldn't even come up to eat. This is my first time with cichlids, but I knew
that when they aren't going for food, something's wrong. I was getting more and
more concerned... so I went to work with the searcher. Dither fish do work, it
seems. Three hatchet fish, and now my little angel school is all over the tank,
and swimming hungrily to the top, constantly telling me they're starving, and
basically brightening my room (and life) for the past week.
Thanks again,
John
<John, thanks for taking the time to write. It's appreciated. The use of dither
fish is very useful with dwarf cichlids as you've discovered, and yes, they do
help. Hatchetfish are lovely animals, though they seem to have a constant
appetite, and perhaps need a little more food than you'd imagine to stay
healthy. I find a mix of Spirulina flake and small carnivore pellets does the
trick admirably, but once in a while I hand-feed mine with small earthworms and
the like. Hatchets are skittish at first, but settle down quickly. But always
keep the tank covered, as they love to jump! Cheers, Neale>
Getting hatchetfish to stay at the top
9/26/06
Hello Crew
<<Hi, Tim. Tom>>
I got some hatchetfish primarily to make use of the top area of tank. However,
it seems that mine prefer the middle of the tank, where traffic is already quite
dense.
<<Just what you need. More traffic congestion.>>
Any idea on how to improve this situation and actually get them to stay at the
top. They do go to the top for feeding and when the lights are out. I presume
it's a matter of the amount of light it is comfortable with, is this correct?
<<I think you've hit on the answer to your own question, Tim.>>
How have others handled this situation, e.g. floating plants (which doesn't seem
to have helped), etc.
<<Floating plants may help diffuse the light, Tim, but they'll also block the
"clear shot" that Hatchetfish want when they hang out near the surface. (Little
buggers don't wait for insects to hit the water, they jump out after them. No
patience, I suppose.) If possible, lower the lighting levels, which I might
assume you've already attempted. I would also feed them foods that don't readily
sink such as Daphnia. Floating foods might condition them to stay near the top.
Beyond that, I'm at a loss, like you, to offer much of a solution to this.
Honestly, I've not heard of Hatchetfish "not" staying at the top of the tank. A
new on me.>>
Thanks
Tim
Hatchet Fish Question 30 Jun 2005
Hi Mr. Fenner,
<Patty>
I was hoping you'd be able to help me with this fish question. My hatchet fish
is doing something very strange. For the past few weeks, it has been swimming
vertically and looks almost like it's doing a River dance jig.
Do you know if it is suffering some kind of ailment?
<Possibly... damage to its gas bladder... from a parasite? Maybe from too much
dry food...>
Once in a blue moon, it'll flop down at the bottom of the tank. The first time,
I thought it was dead or dying and was about to scope him up when it flipped
back up and started doing it's jig again.
It has been eating and seems to be aware of it's surroundings. I personally
think it might have hit it's head trying to jump out of the tank or something.
<Another possibility, yes>
Unfortunately, I think it's freaked out the other two hatchets in the tank, who
are swimming normally.
Appreciate any thoughts about this.
<You might want to add another specimen or two... these are social animals. Keep
your tank covered! Bob Fenner>
Thank you,
Patty
Hatchet Fish
Hey to all, Got a Q about some hatchetfish, but first a little background. I
bought 4 panda Corys 8 days ago and dropped them into my quarantine tank. Three
died pretty promptly (2-3 days), and #4 is still alive and well.
Yesterday, I went back to the store and cashed in my credit for the corpses. I
got one more panda and 4 marbled hatchets. The pandas are friends and two
hatchets are doing their normal hover-just-below-the-surface thing. This leads
to my question: the other two hatchets are hovering about 3/4 of the way down
the tank (about a 10-inch tall tank). Is this normal acclimation behavior, or
should I be concerned?
Data dump: 10 gallon QT, well cycled by adding water from my display. Temp
77-78F, ammonia and nitrite zero, nitrate << 10ppm. pH ~6.8. Sponge filter. 50w
heater. Plastic plants and decorations. No substrate, just a little scattered
gravel, covers ~10% of the bottom. I've left half of the plastic plants floating
for the hatchets, and half weighed down for the Corys. Thanks a lot, Chad
<Hatchetfish are schooling fish and like to be left in groups of at least 6 or
more. When kept in smaller groups they fight among themselves to establish a
pecking order. In the wild their food comes from the surface, so the ones closer
to the top are more dominant and probably keeping the others down. In larger
schools they get tired of chasing the other fish and give up so you see them all
at the surface.-Chuck>
Hatchetfish II
Ahhhh, that makes sense. So let me ask -- should I:
(1) See if there are more of them in stock somewhere in town, and try to get a
couple more, at the risk of overloading my QT tank's biofilter, (Already 4
hatchets and 2 Corys in a 10 gal QT)
-or-
(2) Wait until the first four come out of QT and then get 4-6 more? (This was my
original plan.) Thanks again, Chad
< (2)-Chuck>
Mysterious repeated hatchet fish death
I have an ongoing mysterious death problem with common (silver) hatchet
fish. They are in a 24 gallon 5year old community tank with congenial tank
mates. Temperature is 79 degrees, good top water agitation, chemistry is
consistently within specs (PH between 6.5-7). I buy them from a local store
with an excellent reputation with fish maniacs.
<Hee heee! Good so far>
The problem: One by one they just quit working. They show no signs of damage or
disease and everybody else is doing just fine. If I introduce 4 of them, 1 will
die within a week or two, a month or so later another will go down and so on,
leaving 1 survivor. This process has repeated over years (for a while I just
gave up on them entirely)
Obviously I'm missing something they need.
Thanks for your time!
Peter
<Might be a lack of nutrition... for such seemingly small, inactive fish/es
"gastropelecids" are pretty high metabolic animals... that eat a lot of insect
larvae in the wild... need a good deal of high protein food, frequent feedings
to do well in captivity... Otherwise, I fully suspect that their internal
parasite fauna (all are wild-collected) are showing themselves in your
mysterious losses... If you and I had a "hatchetfish farm" and were in dead
earnest re keeping our herd alive, I would lace their food with
Metronidazole/Flagyl AND a broad spectrum antibiotic (Tetra and HBH used to sell
foods pre-made with these... but I don't know if they're still about), and feed
the new arrivals for about a month once a day with same... in an effort to rid
them of problems... BTW, this is a not-so-uncommon source of anomalous mortality
in quite a few groups of non-cultured fish stocks... e.g. "wild" angels, dwarf
South American Cichlids, Discus... Bob Fenner>
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