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Re: updated pond diagrams
Hi again bob,
<Andy>
I hope you are having a good day...
<Thus far... I haven't woken up!>
I revised my diagrams this morning and thought I should get you to take
another look:
http://www.dingfelder.org/photos/public/pond.htm
<Got them!>
In this new version, I put the pumps into a pump box and added details
for where shutoff valves should go etc. I am not 100% sure if I have
the backflow preventers in the right place but I am getting close.
<Schematically this looks good, complete>
The other thing I did after researching how some Koi ponds have been
built is to split the waste line into 2 branches...
<Ah, yes>
one line goes from the bottom drain directly to the waste line, the
other one can be directed through the waterfall pump if needed.
<Sometimes a good idea... AFTER initially venting what water is there of
course>
The situation I have is that the bottom drains are lower than the waste
line, so if I use the normal (un-pumped) waste purging,
<Yes, I understand this... saw your conversation with Trigger-happy on
WWF... his comment for a drain "box" is a good one... but can't be done
practically due to this fact>
the level of the pool can not (via gravity) empty the entire pool, it
will only empty it up to the level of the waste line. IMHO this is good
because it prevents me from un-intentionally emptying the entire pond,
but it is bad because I can NOT empty the entire pond, if I need to for
some reason.
<I understand... but you could pump it...>
That's why I forked off a line (which is usually closed off) from the
bottom drains, that goes to the waterfall pump. So, if I ever really
need to empty the whole thing, I can flip the waste line switch, and
flip the output lines from the pump to go to waste instead of the
waterfall, and can then empty it all.
<Yes... am starting to wake up>
Also, would you make the sub-ground pump housing out of a plastic
container?
<Mmm, no... almost certainly either out of pre-formed concrete (is this
what you've settled on for the basin construction?) or block on a good
foundation on a type II... water proof coated...>
I was thinking of doing it out of brick and having the input lines
permanently cemented in, then having flexible lines screw into them, and
these lines can connect to the pumps. In that way I could more easily
remove the pumps.
<I would not use flexible... some annealing with solid issues... but DO
use true-union couplers for this purpose... secure the intake and
discharges from your volutes with cut schedule 80 nipples and a bit of
silicone sealant...>
What do you think, does that make sense?
Cheers,
Andy
<Thus far... a bunch more that could be discussed, perhaps will. If/when
in doubt, get out and start digging! REALLY... and consider building
next, the filter vault... that will likely be part of the (next)
waterfall apex, trough... You'll see. BobF> |
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Amusing pond info
Bob,
<Andy>
I thought you might be amused by this email I got from a supplier in
Australia. I asked them for advice on what pumps etc I need. They responded
with what they felt was "appropriate" equipment
Note:
I have estimated that my pond will be somewhere around 6000 liters in volume,
which means I should pump 3000 l of water per hour (if I'm calculating it
right).
<This is... about right... if it were not too expensive, doubling or even
trebling this might be better... depending on your livestock (if plants only...
it can trickle... if lots of Koi, kick up the volume), but your filter
volume/surface area needs to be considered, possibly partially bypassed if there
is too much flow... to accommodate your falls...>
The waterfall head will be about 3, and assuming the worst case, of a 24" wide
waterfall at 3/8" thick, I assume I would need something like 9000 lph.
<Yes, once again, possibly more aesthetically>
So a 12000 lph flow should be enough right?
<Yes>
and with a smaller (12" wide) waterfall, that could be more like 7000 lph.
<Okay>
They are promoting a 32,000 LPH pump below... :-)
<And likely with tremendous head/pressure to boot! I suspect they have stock in
the local utility/electrical supply! Bob Fenner>
Cheers,
Andy
__________________________________
Thank you for your enquiry.
Your pond will certainly be an attractive feature when it is completed. We would
like to suggest that you do not concrete the pond at all, but use Xavan pond
liner on a sand base as the waterproof membrane. This will not be subject to
cracking and is not affected by soil movement, the pond liners are especially
designed for this application and are chemically inert.
We have calculated from your data that you need a pump of 10,500 LPH capacity to
circulate and filter the pond water. Your proposed waterfall needs a pump
capacity of 32,000 LPH.
To achieve good filtration you should consider the OASE Dual Aquamax 8000 pump,
this pump has two inlets and should be installed into the bottom of the pond as
the Aquamax is designed as a filter pump which draws water from 360° and allows
solids up to 10mm dia to be pumped into the filter. The second inlet can be
fitted with a skimmer if needed. Ideally in your pond the main pump and 2nd
inlet should be placed 1/3 of the pond apart with the filter return at the other
1/3 position, this will give good circulation of water. The filtration system
should run 24/7.
<I do agree with the time frame of operation>
The waterfall needs 32,000 LPH and if you want one pump you could run a Messner
M40000 pump which has an output of 38,700 LPH. 8000 LPH can be diverted to run
the filtration system and the remaining 30,000 LPH run over the waterfall with a
diversion valve to bypass the waterfall water to the pond when the waterfall is
not wanted.
<Good point>
We suggest the Blagdon Cyclone 20000 UV-C pressure filter as the most suitable
for your application.
<Mmm, not for a biological pond>
The following prices are in Australian Dollars ex our showroom, but will give a
good indication of pricing.
Blagdon Cyclone 20000 UV-C $779.00
OASE Aquamax Dual 8000 $799.00
Messner M40000 $2,349.00 (this pump is not on our web site as yet, it is about
to be. German made)
OASE skimmer $125.00
Hope that this is of assistance, have a look and let us know what you think.
<Nice gear, but not for your application. Bob F>
Re: pond advice. Plumbing, waste lines
Hey Bob,
I posted this on the forums but thought you might be
curious to see it as well.
Have a good weekend !
Andy
________________________________________
ok, I had a brainstorming session with a neighbor,
and it seems that if I get a permit (and IF the city
allows it) I may be able to plumb the waste line into
the sewer instead of the storm drain.
<Mmm, I wouldn't involve the city, permits if you can avoid them, using the
sewer line... If possible, practical, I dump my waste water on the landscaped
(it's dry here)>
If I am allowed to do that, it opens up new
possibilities, because the level is way lower (1
meter?) so it would be lower than my bottom drains.
<As you and I have hinted around, being able to pump the water down is just
about as valuable... a trade off in safety vs. turning a few valves instead of
lifting riser pipes>
IF I can use this approach, is there ANY need to have
a pump connected to the waste line? I assume no.
<No>
The only negative to this approach that I can think of
is that if I flip the drain, the whole pond will
empty... bad if I do not intend on it.
<Yes>
If I am willing to lose water during purging (since I
am not using a vortex etc) I think it would make sense
to just plumb straight from the bottom drains to the
waste line. (note: I do not pay for water :) )
<... well, could do...>
While I was modifying the diagrams to have this new
update, I made a big change to the pumping method... I
went to a single pump, which flows to both the filter
and the waterfall, then has ball valves to control how
much flow goes to each, so most of the flow can go to
the waterfall
<A definite plus... however, it is "nice" to have an alternate pump for the
chance of the other going out. Bob Fenner>
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