Pump Plumbing, Pond 4/7/08
I've got a 10,000 gallon pond that I'm re-plumbing. Here's what I have to work with so far:
Atlantic Tidal Wave Pump (9,000 GPH) Submersible
Large Savio Skimmer
Large Savio Filter Falls (with 22" weir)
The pump is in the skimmer now and feeding the Filter Falls which feeds an upper pond and two streams. The pump is also feeding a large waterfall. I want to put in a retrofit bottom drain in the pond and pull from the drain using an external pump (Sequence 1000 series) with between 4300 and 5800 GPH capacity.
<OK>
Can I feed the pressure sides of the Tidal Wave and Sequence into the same 3" manifold that would then feed my waterfall and filter falls unit?
<I would not, the larger pump will likely out power the smaller. Ideally each pump will have its own plumbing.>
The pond is about 5 feet deep, the Sequence would be level with the pond surface. The water fall is 4 feet high and about ten feet from the manifold. The filter falls would be about 5 feet vertical and 20 feet of
pipe. I'm planning on 1.5" going from the manifold to the filter and 2" going from the manifold to the water fall. I'll have 2" going from the Tidal wave to the manifold. I'll have 1.5" feeding the sequence and 1.5" from the Sequence to the manifold. Does this all make sense, or should I consider a different configuration?
Thanks,
Neil
<I would plumb the Sequence output up with its own dedicated line. Also, if the input of the pump is not at or below the water level of the pond it will need to be primed each time it starts up. It is better to place this pump a bit lower in relation to the water level, these are not suction lift pumps. Be prepared for fairly frequent cleaning with a bottom drain configuration. Welcome, I hope this helps out. This sounds like a very nice pond. Scott V.>

Pond Filtration system... lost prime  - 12/13/07
Hi, I just bought a house and inherited a pond, it doesn't have any fish or anything in it. The filtration system in the pond was working when I bought it, but it suddenly stopped working.
<... can you describe this filtration system? What stopped "working"?>
I got into the pond cleaned out the filter in there, checked the filter next to the pump and cleaned it out, and I also checked to make sure the pump is working. I started the pump after cleaning and the water is not pumping through. I can hear the pump churning but the water is not pumping. I think its an upward filtration system. I was wondering what do I need to do re-start the system, do I have to fill it with water to pressurize the system ?
<You may have to prime the intake, pump line... Can be tried in a few ways... jamming a pump hose/hose pipe up an intake line with someone to turn the pump on while you're doing so... filling a pump intake trap... pressurizing a line in a skimmer/box intake... I would NOT leave the pump running without water going through it for any period of time... IF necessary call in a pool or pond company and have them show you how to re-fill the plumbing lines. Bob Fenner>
. Thank you
Mal

Re: Pond Filtration system  11/13/07
There is a filter in the pond just a plastic cover with holes to keep debris off
<Ahh... this is most often called an "intake screen">
and there is a pipe that flows upwards, and it reaches my pump where there is a second filter before the pump.
<All above water level I take it>
and from there another filter on the other side of the pump before the water empties out into the pond through a water fall. The pump I believe stopped pumping because it had debris in it. so I cleaned everything and fixed the filter( the one in the pond let debris in). I took out the pump cleaned it, turned it on and saw it spun.
<Good>
so I put the system back together to see if it will work at which point it didn't. so I stopped the system. I was worried I might damage the pump without pumping water, but I think its okay. There is a few tubes on the water fall side of the filter, and I also need to check the filter before the water fall. I think I will be able to use a hose to pressurize the system before I turn on the pump, thanks for your input.
Mal
<Welcome. Please do read here re the use of check valves:
http://wetwebmedia.com/PondSubWebIndex/chkvalvpds.htm
and the linked files above. Bob Fenner>

Jebo Pump  8/28/07
Good Day:
I would like to purchase a JEBO PP-355 pump for a small fountain I have. I need a 3 prong grounded plug. Do you have that pump or a direct replacement for it? Thanks in advance for your help. You can email me or call toll free at XXXX
BR,
GP
<We have nothing for sale. Please try your search tools. BobF>

Waterfall Pump Selection   1/3/07
Hello-
<Hi there>
Was wondering how many and how big of pumps OR how do you determine how many and how big of pumps would be needed for a waterfall 30 feet wide by 8 feet tall.
<Mmm, there are "performance curves" for any number of pump and impeller combinations... available through suppliers... from their manufacturers>
The fall will be constructed from larger rocks and will be wider at the base so the water can crash on the rocks.  We are looking for white water and noise, lots of noise.  
<Ah, yes... our old business got to the point of bringing recordings of noise from a few types of pumps... to help the customer gauge how much pump... and cost to operate...>
The top pond will be about 400' x 180' and @4' deep.
<Only four feet deep? May be difficult to maintain...>
  It will also be lined.  
The bottom pond is not lined.
<How will it be rendered waterproof then?>
So I just want to pump water from the bottom to the top and have enough water (2" ???) to make it crash.
<... okay>
Any response would be greatly appreciated.
Thank you
Cameron Marcelle
<Umm, Cameron... I would call on a pump engineering firm near you here... The cost of operation of this device is of paramount importance to the end-user/s in the long/er haul... Will be considerable. Bob Fenner>

Pump for pond, main drain and pond repair - 06/01/2006
Hi,
  I have to replace my old swimming pool motor pump system about 10 years old, I have been told a whitewater 6400 gph would be my best bet, they sound expensive but I think he said it was only 2.6 amps to run, are you familiar with this?
<Mmm, nope... neither is Google evidently. I generally plug Sequence series pumps... maybe this is one of theirs. The amp draw sounds about the same>
  Also I have a tree root puncture up close to the surface on rubber liner, I was told I could cut root out behind and fill in with concrete then put the rubber sealant on the pond side since it is close to the old skimmer and would be hard to patch.
<Yes to the last>
  Another thing when my husband put the main drain in it's probably 2 " the wire basket collapsed over the years and since he is no longer here fix what can I put there to keep the leaves from going down the drain, the pond is about 2' deep.
  Thanks
  D
<...? Need to retro-fit some sort of screen here... I'd visit pool/spa supplies re. Bob Fenner>

Is this a good pump? For ponds... not SW    4/20/06
Hi guys!  I was in a store the other day and came across these pumps, an Aqua surge 3000, and an Aqua force (2000 GPH). They are both under the name, NurseryPro by Aquascape Designs.
<A pond gear re-seller>
  Do you know if these are good pumps for a reef system?
<Mmm, nope, but I doubt it. Likely there are metal components that you don't want seawater to come in contact with here>
I am in the process of building a 72x24x22 tank (150 gallons) with a 50 gallon sump underneath.  There is 5 2" holes drilled across the top of the back, three overflows and two returns. Would one of these pumps do the job for this system?  If nothing else maybe i could use it for pumping out my town, since we are in the middle of a flood here in Manitoba:)  Thanks again for your time, your advice is muchly appreciated!!!!  Steve K
<Please read here: http://wetwebmedia.com/pumpselmar.htm
and the pertinent linked files at top. Bob Fenner>

Pond Pump Sizing For A Small Waterfall - 04/10/06
I have a 100-gallon pond with a preformed waterfall, about 2 feet tall.  The little pump that came with the waterfall only gets me a trickle for flow.  I'm looking at Beckett model submersibles.  Can you recommend horsepower and max head?
<<"Horsepower" is not really a concern/consideration here.  Look for the 'output' rating on the pump in 'gallons per hour.'  For a nice 'waterfall' effect...allowing for head-height and friction/restriction from the small diameter tubing usually associated with these systems, look for a pump with a rated output of 'at least' 500 gph...and install a small valve on the output side of the pump to regulate/reduce flow if needed.>>
Thank you!
<<You're welcome, EricR>>

Waterfall Pump  10/20/05
Bob,
<Mike>
I left a message on your answerer but perhaps you did not receive it.
<Mmm, am out in Hawai'i this month>
Since earlier this year we've been living in a house in Fairbanks Ranch that has a waterfall about 20' high.  It has a 230 volt pump that's approximately 8" in diameter and 12" high.  I can't read the labels, so I don't know any more about it.  I would guess, however, that it's about 20 years old!
Now to the problem.  
In order to control this pump with a 110 volt light switch, it was connected to an overload relay.  The overload relay is only a year or two old.
The pump suddenly quit starting with the light switch.  The relay is not "tripping".  However, when I push the upper "switch" (which I believe excites the "heater" device in the overload relay), the pump will run.  Thus, I know that electricity is at least reaching the pump.
<Yes...>
At  present I'm trying to find someone who can look at the pump and its connections and determine whether the pump and/or the relay need repair or replacement.
<Could be either, both... the pump may be re-wound, otherwise repaired for less than replacement cost. I would call "Barrett Engineered Pumps", and try to talk with Craig there (please say hi for me)>
I also need someone to suggest what we can do to filter the water.  We would prefer an above-ground filter if possible.
<Many things to discuss here... Have you read over the survey articles on WWM re pond filtration?>
A few more details.  The pump is submerged in a pond at the bottom of the waterfall and the water is discharged into a smaller pond at the top of the waterfall.  There are trees all around the waterfall and leaves are a problem.  I have now pumped out all of the water and cleaned the upper and lower ponds.  They were filled with guck.
I hope you can help me or at least refer me to someone who can.
Thanks so much,
Mike Glass
<I would have some of the pond maintenance folks out to bid the filtration, get you ideas on what your options are. Cheers, BobF, Kailua>

Looking for Cal Pump  8/27/05
Hello,
How do I order a Cal Pump plastic 80GPH pump, 115 v?  Thank you.
Eve Breitung
<Mmm, you can look up and contact the manufacturer at: http://www.calpump.com/
or use your search tool with the name Calvert Engineering. Bob Fenner>

Pond pump selection 8/22/05
I was reading your article on constructing concrete ponds. I was wondering
if you could recommend an above ground pump brand?
David Blacoe
<The Sequence series of pumps are excellent for continuous duty on ornamental, biological water features. Bob Fenner>

Pond Pump 8/9/05
Bob- I have a 7000 gal pond. I want to change from a submersible pump to an external pump.
<Good>
The current submersible is a 5000 gph nursery pro that sits in a skimmer box, 70 ft away and 5 ft below the biofilter box it feeds at the head of a 30 in waterfall and stream.
<Wowzah!>
I would prefer placing the external pump near the bio filter but that would place it 70 ft away and 5 ft higher than the source.
<Mmm, can still be done... with careful plumbing work... maybe two swing type check valves in front of the skimmer basket...>
The problem is that the pump would then have to pull water 70ft and 5 ft up.
<The lateral is no big deal, as long as the pipe diameter is sufficient...>
Can you recommend a pump for that job. Thank you.
R. Hankins
<Mmm, I would contact the folks at Sequence and/or Jacuzzi Pumps re... the engineer folks at these companies will be able to best advise you... If you run this pump for very many hours, do look into multi-phase, higher-voltage possibilities... and the need to possibly trim/tune the impeller... Well-worth the initial expense. Bob Fenner>

Pond pump search 6/29/05
Hey Bob,
            I've dug myself two new ponds, both roughly 20,000ltr each. One of the ponds is 12 inches higher and joined to the other with a waterfall. I've built a rockery with a waterfall which will be the water feed from the bottom pool at the opposite side to the other waterfall. could you recommend a filter pump set up for this? Vie tried everywhere and haven't had any joy. If you could help it would be much appreciated. Thanks.
<The best manufactured pumps by far currently are the Sequence series... use your search tools on the Net to locate a dealer near you... You want something that will deliver relatively low pressure, but high volume... and be minimally expensive to operate. Be careful not to get "swimming pool" technology... higher pressure, lower flow rate... the pumps may look cheaper, but in not too many months... Bob Fenner>

                                                                        Adam Chatterton.
JEBO submersible pump
Hi Wet Crew,
<Jenni>
My fountain pump light bulb has gone out and the store where I bought this fountain has recently gone out of business. I want a new pump with a working bulb and would like your help in locating one. My pump reads: JEBO Submersible Pump, PP-33L, AC12V 60 Hz 2W, Bulb 10W, Head: 0-50 cm, Zhongshan Jebao Electrical Appliances Co. Ltd. I write from Portland, Oregon, and will appreciate any information that you may have regarding local distributors.
Many thanks,
Jenni Lockwood
<You might write, otherwise contact their distributors... Please see here: http://www.wetwebmedia.com/pumpselmar3.htm.  Bob Fenner>  

I want a pond!!
Hi all!
I have this very large hole on the side of my house that was used by the former owners as a pond. I would like to resurrect it and use it for the same. I don't want any fish; I just want a waterfall about 3ft tall. I am going to line it with a simple snap together child's pool. I would estimate that it is about 500-700 gallons (ok it may not seem that big to you, but give me a break, I am new at this LOL). 
Anyway, I priced pumps and they were like $120, so I went on a hunt and was given (for free I might add!) a Walchem/Iwaki magnetic drive pump model #530128 at least that is what the box says, on the pump itself it says Fasco Hydrothrustor). I have searched and searched for info to see if this will work for my waterfall/pond idea. I can't find anything. I don't even know if it is submersible; I don't know how to set this pond up or anything. 
I thought I could just find a pump, put it in the bottom of my pond and hook a hose to it and run it up to the top of my waterfall and then have the pump pump the water through the hose to the top of the waterfall and have it circulate in that manner. Apparently, it is going to be a little more difficult than that. 
Can you give me some ideas on what the pump is? Is this pump appropriate for the size pond I have? Is it submersible and if it is not how do I set it up to work how I want it to work? Thanks for the info. I think you guys are great!!!!!
<Mmm, you can, could use this pump... but it is not designed, engineered for this purpose... It won't produce much flow at this head... If you want you can utilize it for continuous operation (not too bad in terms of energy consumption, you can either measure the wattage, calculate per your energy bills... cost per kilowatt hour, or measure directly)... But for the waterfall you will want something much more powerful in terms of flow rate. Please read here: http://www.wetwebmedia.com/PondSubWebIndex/pdpumps.htm and on to the linked files... and re filtration, livestocking, maintenance... Bob Fenner> 

Partly thought out pond plan
Hi, we are making a backyard pond in a 3 leaf clover shape and it will have a waterfall at the top <highest ground> of the pond. Appx size is 14' wide by 14'long with a shelf that borders the pond appx 12" deep, then onto the deepest section, appx 3-4'  deep. We plan on taking our 3 sliders out of our indoor aquarium they are rapidly outgrowing it and introducing them to the pond, perhaps just for spring, summer and fall and maybe bring them back inside for the winter. My question is about keeping the water clean. I have an extra pump/filter from a swimming pool and have read about converting it into a pond pump/filter. We are doing this on  almost pennies, so I can't afford to go out and buy an expensive pump.
<False economy... this pump will cost you much more money in not too long a while... in electrical expense>
The finished ideal <in my head> will have a waterfall facing you as you walk up to it and I'm thinking the intake should be placed on the opposite end of the pond the waterfall is on, then run the return hose back up through the ground to the waterfall to a outlet box I'm sure I will have to make. Other than knowing we want a small fountain to shoot from the middle of it with a few lights to accent the beauty at night, that is pretty much where I'm at. I am currently pricing the wide black burlap to lay down as a pre-liner before ordering the actual liner. Please, any and all suggestions / advice  would be great...........thanks for your time, Mike K.
<Keep reading... on WWM, elsewhere, re pond design, filters/filtration, maintenance, learn to use your grammar checker. Bob Fenner>

Amusing pond info
Bob,
<Andy>
I thought you might be amused by this email I got from a supplier in Australia.  I asked them for advice on what pumps etc I need. They responded with what they felt was "appropriate" equipment
Note:  
I have estimated that my pond will be somewhere around 6000 liters in volume, which means I should pump 3000 l of water per hour (if I'm calculating it right).  
<This is... about right... if it were not too expensive, doubling or even trebling this might be better... depending on your livestock (if plants only... it can trickle... if lots of Koi, kick up the volume), but your filter volume/surface area needs to be considered, possibly partially bypassed if there is too much flow... to accommodate your falls...>
The waterfall head will be about 3,  and assuming the worst case, of a 24" wide waterfall at 3/8" thick, I assume I would need something like 9000 lph.   
<Yes, once again, possibly more aesthetically>
So a 12000 LPH flow should be enough right?    
<Yes>
and with a smaller (12" wide) waterfall, that could be more like 7000 LPH.
<Okay>
They are promoting a 32,000 LPH pump below... :-)
<And likely with tremendous head/pressure to boot! I suspect they have stock in the local utility/electrical supply! Bob Fenner>
Cheers,
Andy
__________________________________
Thank you for your enquiry.
Your pond will certainly be an attractive feature when it is completed. We would like to suggest that you do not concrete the pond at all, but use Xavan pond liner on a sand base as the waterproof membrane. This will not be subject to cracking and is not affected by soil movement, the pond liners are especially designed for this application and are chemically inert.
We have calculated from your data that you need a pump of 10,500 LPH capacity to circulate and filter the pond water. Your proposed waterfall needs a pump capacity of  32,000 LPH.
To achieve good filtration you should consider the OASE Dual Aquamax 8000 pump, this pump has two inlets and should be installed into the bottom of the pond as the Aquamax is designed as a filter pump which draws water from 360° and allows solids up to 10mm dia to be pumped into the filter. The second inlet can be fitted with a skimmer if needed. Ideally in your pond the main pump and 2nd inlet should be placed 1/3 of the pond apart with the filter return at the other 1/3 position, this will give good circulation of water. The filtration system should run 24/7.
<I do agree with the time frame of operation>
The waterfall needs 32,000 LPH and if you want one pump you could run a Messner M40000 pump which has an output of 38,700 LPH. 8000 LPH can be diverted to run the filtration system and the remaining 30,000 LPH run over the waterfall with a diversion valve to bypass the waterfall water to the pond when the waterfall is not wanted.
<Good point>
We suggest the Blagdon Cyclone 20000 UV-C pressure filter as the most suitable for your application.
<Mmm, not for a biological pond>
The following prices are in Australian Dollars ex our showroom, but will give a good indication of pricing.
Blagdon Cyclone 20000 UV-C   $779.00
OASE Aquamax Dual 8000   $799.00
Messner M40000   $2,349.00 (this pump is not on our web site as yet, it is about to be. German made)
OASE skimmer   $125.00
Hope that this is of assistance, have a look and let us know what you think.
<Nice gear, but not for your application. Bob F>

Re: pond advice. Plumbing, waste lines
Hey Bob,
I posted this on the forums but thought you might be curious to see it as well.
Have a good weekend !
Andy
________________________________________

ok, I had a brainstorming session with a neighbor, and it seems that if I get a permit (and IF the city allows it) I may be able to plumb the waste line into the sewer instead of the storm drain.
<Mmm, I wouldn't involve the city, permits if you can avoid them, using the sewer line... If possible, practical, I dump my waste water on the landscaped (it's dry here)>
If I am allowed to do that, it opens up new possibilities, because the level is way lower (1 meter?) so it would be lower than my bottom drains.
<As you and I have hinted around, being able to pump the water down is just about as valuable... a trade off in safety vs. turning a few valves instead of lifting riser pipes>
IF I can use this approach, is there ANY need to have a pump connected to the waste line? I assume no.
<No>
The only negative to this approach that I can think of is that if I flip the drain, the whole pond will empty... bad if I do not intend on it.
<Yes>
If I am willing to lose water during purging (since I am not using a vortex etc) I think it would make sense to just plumb straight from the bottom drains to the waste line. (note: I do not pay for water :) )
<... well, could do...>
While I was modifying the diagrams to have this new update, I made a big change to the pumping method... I went to a single pump, which flows to both the filter and the waterfall, then has ball valves to control how much flow goes to each, so most of the flow can go to the waterfall
<A definite plus... however, it is "nice" to have an alternate pump for the chance of the other going out. Bob Fenner>

7000 gallon pump, pond, electrical cost, winter
I have a 7000 gallon pump (biofilter, etc.) and have about 15 fish in my pond.  This pump is very costly to run.  Can I turn it off for part of the day during the winter.    It gets cold in South Carolina but I don't think the pond would freeze solid.  What if I run it through the night and turn it off during the day?  I don't want to hurt the fish nor do I want to damage the pump.  Any suggestions?  Thanks for your help.
<You can turn this pump off during the winter (when water temperature is less than 55 F. nominally... BUT your biofilter will DIE... unless there is some water going through it... IF it's possible though, you might drain the filter (all the media dry) and rinse well before re-starting the pump in Spring... I would add something in the way of mechanical aeration to your main pond basin (maybe a Tetra Luft air pump and good glass airstone... AND take care to vacuum, net out most unconsolidated biological "crud" and net out leaves before turning the pump off... AND drain the water out of the pump, the plumbing during the time it's off (to prevent rupture from freezing)... And one last note... do look into a more cost-effective pump... there is a HUGE variation in energy consumption here... perhaps a Sequence series (Baldor motored) pump... about the best for pond use. Bob Fenner>

Jebo Submersible Fountain Pump AP-355A
I have just blown up a very small  Jhongshan Jebao Electrical Appliance (motor) fitted to my frog water fountain Q01113  IPX8  Jhongshan Jebao Electrical Appliances Co. Ltd.  Would you know where I can purchase another one in Melbourne, North Fitzroy area please.  I can see on the web page that it is manufactured in China.
Please advise
Helen
<You might have some luck tracing down the manufacturer through the Net and in turn contacting them re who their master distributor is in Australia, and them in turn re retail outlets... but if it were me, my fountain I would just seek out another suitable size (pressure, flow rate) and suitable diameter discharge line (or adaptor, tubing to fit what the fixture has now)
from whatever source there is in town (or online). Bob Fenner>

Pump selection for a fountain  8/2/04
Hi, I am building a fountain for the front yard of my house. I'd like it to work similar to a fountain that I saw inside the Bellagio hotel in Las Vegas.
<Me too!>
I am looking for water pumps that work as follows:
The pumps shoot a stream of water into the air. The water stream shoots in an arc and lands on the ground 10-12 feet from the pump. The pumps can be turned on and off instantaneously via an electric signal, a command from a computer or some other way, such that the stream of water suddenly stops and starts.
<Yep... a few Disney (as in Walt) patents here>
In the lobby of the Bellagio, the pumps are turned on and off to the beat of music. I'm not sure if we'd use music but perhaps we would.
I called the company that built the Bellagio fountains and they told me that their products are proprietary and they can't tell me who makes them.
Do you know who makes such a pump and what it's called?
<Do a bit of looking under the terms "fountain" and "imagineering" and "Disney">
Thank you. Kerry Schwartz
<Welcome. Bob Fenner>

Waterfall sans pump
It is possible to recirculate water within a waterfall and pond without a pump by using high mounted remote sealed reservoirs, can you please send me some info on size of tanks and hoses.
CHEERS
Simon Curnow
<Mmm, I can imagine what you might have in mind here... to move much water though, it would be easier, simpler, cheaper to build/buy a generator, pump et al... Bob Fenner>

Koi Pond - Do I need a pump?
Dear WetWebMedia crew:
<Hi there Brad>
I am a reef aquarist who has lived in apartments my whole life.  I wanted a Koi pond, so I bought a house (ok, there were other motives too).
<I'll bet!>
WetWebMedia has lots of good info, but:
Do I need a pump?  I would never consider setting up an aquarium without one, but most articles seem to connect having a pump to having a waterfall or fountain.  I don't want visible moving water, but I don't want a dead/dying/stagnant pond either.
<Almost assuredly yes... you will need/want to circulate, aerate AND filter your system>
WetWebMedia (and other sources) always mentions a drain at the bottom of the pond.  For those of us on level ground, where should the other end of the drain go?
<To waste>
  The bottom of the pond will be lower than anything else.  Do I need to put water up and out of the pond if I drain it?
<If you have no drain, yes>
Thanks,
Brad Bellomo
<Do look into all of these issues more... make a check-list and draw up plans for your pond now, not later. Investigate your pump options... and get one that won't run you into the poor house...they can be costly to operate in the long haul... and need to run 24/7. Bob Fenner>

- Jebo Pumps -
just got a fountain with a Jebo submersible pump pp-399 120V .23A 60Hz. Can anyone tell me how much water this unit will pump? I am connecting several small ponds together.
Thank you
<I'm afraid I do not have any specs on this pump. Would suggest you enter the model number into your favorite Internet search engine and go from there. Cheers, J -- >

Pond pump installation question 
I ran across a concern as I was designing my 6000 gal bottom drain pond. 
<Okay> 
I want to have both skimmer and bottom feed inlets to the suction of the pump 1/3 performance pro pump. 2" inlet and 2 " outlet. to get the proper feed without loss on the suction part of this pump I want to make sure that the pump location is below water grade...this way there is only water weight or gravity feed into the pump when it is running. 
<Mmm, actually... the intake need only be at or about water level to receive "full benefit"... placing the pump/intake lower makes little difference otherwise> 
With the pond at a 3 ft depth where the bottom drain is attached and keeping the 3" suction PVC line level as it enters the pump inlet...I will need to put the pump around 3 ft below the water grade. this is not a submersible pump and can not get "wet" 
<Again, no need to do this... think about this situation in this way, with lowering the intake you also have the equivalent "head" in air to pump through...> 
Question is what kind of water proof container can be used to make sure the pump does not get flooded by rain or have ground water rise up and flood the motor from underneath. I've been told cement box.. to size I need or just cover with heavy polymer box with lid and keep 1 ft of stones underneath. What do you recommend? 
<A pump "vault" of a few types of construction can be employed... made of block, pre-made of plastic... with a cover and provision for flooding (gravel on the bottom, a drain of good size running off to waste... maybe the use of a sump pump with a float switch... Do make sure all are GFCI wired... and a good service switch nearby (within code) to switch all on/off. Bob Fenner> 
thanks, Jack

- Looking for a Pump -
Hi, I have a cat fountain and the pump stopped. I was wondering if I could get another one. It is a JEBO Submersible Pump PP-333LV 12V 60Hz 2w Head:0~50CM  
Paul
<Paul, I'm afraid we don't sell pumps but I was able to find several places that do by entering the phrase, "JEBO pumps" into Google, my preferred search engine. I suggest you begin your search there. Cheers, J -- >

Gravity driven water using no electricity
Hello WWM Staff,
<Hi there>
I want to build a gravity driven waterfall or fountain, without using electricity!
I know that it can be done, look at ancient cities with fountains! Not all had a Spring. Please help Me! I want it to work self perpetuating, and without any kind of 'Hardware' like pumps and such.
<How about plumbing?!>
Water goes down...forces water back up. I saw something like this in Science class.....We won't discuss how many Years that's been! I know Someone can help Me!!!
Many Thanks Ariana
<What do you have in mind exactly? Is there sufficient water "upstream" from you to power such a water effect? And space that's safe downstream to vent the water after? Bob Fenner>

Re: Gravity driven water using no electricity
Hello Bob,
What I want is a Perpetuating system that carries the water (like in a Windmill) Uphill and deposits the water back into a Trough that sends the water back to the Wheel, and that pushes the wheel to carry more water to the top of the trough, and so on .......
<There is no such thing>
I just can't find any blueprints or plans on ancient water driven windmills that do this.
I know that the force of the water coming down the trough can push more than it's height....
<Umm, no>
I just need some basic plans! Can You help???
Thank You,
Ariana
<Like "cold fusion", the second law of thermodynamics is yet to be misproven... you can't (as far as I'm aware) get more energy out of a system then you put in. The potential (gravity in this case) energy, converted to kinetic (1/2 mV squared)... water going downhill so to speak, will not generate surplus to somehow "pump" it back up... unless maybe you can convert the water via fusion? Bob Fenner>

Re: Gravity driven water using no electricity
Hello Bob,
<Hi! Ananda here, with her husband Mark the physics nut...>
What I want is a Perpetuating system that carries the water (like in a Windmill) Uphill and deposits the water back into a Trough that sends the water back to the Wheel, and that
pushes the wheel to carry more water to the top of the trough, and so on .......I just can't find any blueprints or plans on ancient water driven windmills that do this.
<The phrase "perpetuating system" sent up a red flag in my mind. While inventors have been trying to create one for centuries, there is no such thing as a perpetual motion machine (which would be a machine that keeps going in a completely closed system, with no outside energy being added once you start the thing). However, if you're looking for ancient mills driven by water or wind, check out the books here: http://www.windmillworld.com/shop/bookshop.htm -- perhaps you might find something you could adapt to your needs.>
I know that the force of the water coming down the trough can push more than it's height....
<Ah, now that is not the case. The amount of force needed to move the water upwards can be calculated by multiplying the mass of the water times the force of gravity which must be overcome. The force of the water going down is the mass of the water multiplied by the acceleration of gravity. Some of the force on the way down is lost to friction (and heat) between the water and the sides of the trough, and more of the force is lost to friction and heat on the axle of the water wheel itself. Since you are losing force to this friction, the amount of force you are left with is not enough to move the same amount of water upwards. You have to add additional force/power through some other means. Ancient fountains probably utilized *additional* water power from nearby streams, or aqueducts, or perhaps cisterns that would need to be refilled occasionally. They might also have used wind.>
I just need some basic plans! Can You help???
Thank You,
Ariana
<I'll leave this for Bob in case he has any further ideas for information sources. --Ananda>
<I had already tried to respond to... methinks this may be a "perpetual motion" jag... gravity fed systems need a "lot of water" and someplace to allow that same volume to go after use. Bob Fenner>

Pond/pool question for you...
I'm putting in a waterfall/pool in the backyard and I have a question for you...
<Neat, okay>
I've read a lot of the information you have on your web site about pond construction (good stuff). It's going to be mostly for aesthetics, but also for dipping in the summer months (not going to be a living/natural pond with plants/fish). It's about 8' diameter round, about a 3 or 4 foot high fall.
I'm looking for about 50 GPM flow over the fall.
Anyway, I'm looking at pumps and I'm looking for the best fit - quiet, efficient (cheaper to run), self-priming (pump will be a foot or so above waterline), enough flow.
<Well put and researched>
I've found a couple of options - a "pool" pump, and a "pond" pump. I don't really know what the differences would be.
<Mainly a trade off in head (pressure) (pools) versus flow (ponds)... in terms of energy consumption, design, engineering...>
- Hayward Super Pump (pool pump) (SP2605X7), 3/4 HP, about 4500 GPH @ 8', about $240
- Sequence 1000 series (pond pump) (5000SEQ22), 1/4 HP, 4226 GPH @ 8', about $380
From those I've seen, it seems like the "pool" pumps are cheaper than the "pond" pumps... but it looks like the pond pumps are more efficient (to get the same flow). I'm thinking of spending $150 more on the pond pump to spend half as much on the electric bill forever.
<Yes... you can do the math... watts consumed times cost per kilowatt hour of electricity... doesn't take too many months at many hours use to make, pass up the difference in initial costs of acquisition>
Unless there's some reason why I shouldn't use the "pond" pumps in a "pool" installation - like the fact that it will be chemically cleaned/maintained water, will use a cartridge filter, etc.
Any thoughts??
Thanks!
Bryan
<Good question... a shame our trade can't/won't afford ability as yours... no real functional reason that the pond pump won't work... it won't rot any sooner... actually lasts longer... the fine Sequence Pump series are often employed by marine livestock holding systems>
(pics of the progress are here: http://community.webshots.com/user/bultar )
<Very nice (as usual). Looking forward to seeing your project in person. Bob Fenner/Dogfish>               

Re: pond/pool question for you...
Thanks for the info!
Stop by anytime to check out the progress! (Will be out today laying more block.) There's always a beer here with your name on it.
>Woo hoo! You betcha. Am over in HI till 2/11 or so<
So I'm focused now on a "pond" pump, and the only factor that I really can't find info on is how quiet they are (I've only found one pump that actually gives a dB rating). Sounds like Sequence is a good item, so will probably go with that.
<Yes... the Sequence line are about as quiet as they come... With the bit of freeway noise you have you will not be able to detect the pump... and the movement of water will do a good amount of masking of the road>
Thanks again for the advice!
Bryan
Bryan F. Butler
<A pleasure. On on! Bob/DF who with Pete/Impy is determined to start up the Kona Gold HHH this year... maybe have a bunch of folks from S. Cal over for the inauguration!>

Water regulation (for a wall fountain)
I just purchased a indoor wall fountain and the flow of water into the base is too strong I would like to know if there is a way to modify or restrict the flow so that it has a more tranquil effect instead of a roar. My husband states that the installer used the lowest setting.
Thanks for your help,  Mrs. Moreno
<Yes, there are a few ways to slow the pump flow down. The best may be to switch out to a smaller unit... to save on electricity in the long haul, but you can restrict the discharge (outflow) end with a length of tubing, a clamp of sorts or an all plastic valve. Take the pump with you into a Lowe's or Home Depot and go see someone in plumbing... they will be able to show you your options. Bob Fenner>

Low cost operating pond pump 750 gal.
Hi!
I'm new in ponds matters, and I'm building a pond of approx. 750 gallons. I need your help.  I need the best cost efficient pump for this size pond and the best liner EPDM or the Tetra Pond Xavan liner?
Thank you for your help.  
<I'd look to the fractional horsepower units offered as "Sequence Pumps" here if you can use their smaller size/s... And the Tetra product is not inexpensive, but is an excellent choice. Bob Fenner>

KOI Pond Construction
Bob,
This is Keith Slinkard, Eric's Father-in-law.
<Hello Keith!>
I have some question about the mods that I am going to make to the design and enlarging my fishes habitat.
1. I purchased Firestone EPDM liner and I am concerned about the wrinkles that I think I will have . I think that I want to shot crete over the EPDM ,but can not find directions as to what to do with the wrinkles prior to applying the crete .
<No worries... on a nice warm day (careful not to lay the liner on your grass!) the material becomes much easier to make folds in then>
2. The size is as follows , 18' long X 8' wide X 2' deep with a 1' X 1' plant ledge around the perimeter. All walls are completely vertical . I think this will add to the wrinkles and make the shot crete application difficult. Should I angle them somewhat ?
<No. Best to try and make as vertical as possible... the wire and shotcreting will conspire to make the walls and corners more sloped... In fact, a good idea to use a lower slump concrete/shotcreting mix... and "lay a bead" on the bottom corner seams in an attempt to "build up" the mass of material... much easier than "pushing up" the material after the concrete truck, applicator is gone>
3. I am going to change to a pond filter to like the one you exhibit in fig.10 of your Aquatic Gardens book on page 10 . With the volume of water that I need to move , do you suggest a dry pump, and if so what size ?  
<Yes, not a submersible, and one with as small an electrical current as you can get by on for the volume (at the head) you're shooting for. Please ask Eric to show you the "Sequence" series pumps... if memory serves they have a nominal 1/5 HP unit that should work nicely on your application>
4. Where do I place the supply line to the filter and how do I install it through the liner material to insure a water tight fitting .
<Mmm, best to run the plumbing "inside" the liner, and up and over the side of the system (a bit tricky to prime the first time but worth it). Water for the intake should come from as far away from the return as practical... and from the bottom as well as a side intake (a foot or so down in the water), these with a Valving manifold to isolate one or the other (to vent water occasionally)>
Thank you in advance for your expertise and direction . Keith Slinkard   
<Glad to help. Bob Fenner>

Stream velocity
Hi,
<Hello>
I am a consulting engineer working a restoration of a historic landscape that includes a stream that varies from about 24 to 36 inches wide.  The owner wants to put in a pumping system to recirculate water during periods of low natural stream flow.   I was wondering if you have any thoughts on:
a reasonable/realistic average stream velocity so I can calculate a flow rate
evaporation and leakage rates so I can size a make-up water tank
Any thoughts you have would be appreciated.
Thomas Newbold
<Mmm, the depth of this stream? Your intent? To move, recirculate all, part every so minutes over what sort of run, slope? There are "power curves" that approximate a given flow at given head pressures/heights per a given pump/motor... these can be had from pump supply houses. The "water tank" you're referring to is for transit volume? There should be no appreciable loss of water from evaporation or leakage... Can you characterize your application a bit more quantitatively?
Sometime, later, Bob Fenner>

Stream velocity
Hi,
What I am interested in knowing is if there is any data on water velocity in a natural stream.  For example, a stream characterized as slow moving moves at X feet per second while a fast moving stream moves at XX feet per second.
<Yes... if memory serves (Stuart Hurlbert's Limnology class back in the seventies)... 1-2 foot per second I'd class as slow... above this faster... You might have a go at "Treatise in Limnology" by Hutchinson. Bob Fenner>>
Thanks, Tom

High-head Pond Pumps
>Hi again Guys,
>>Girl Marina with you today.
>Any ideas on a "very high head" pump... somewhere in the neighborhood of 30 meters? I'm working on plans for a four pond and waterfall system on the side of a large hillside. The overall water volume is about 10,000 gallons.
>>I will direct you to http://www.eponds.com and am going to do a quick Google for you.  I believe you will need more than one pump for this job.  Try this site for larger capacity pumps, too -- http://www.littlegiant.com  Best of luck and have FUN!  (Also, should you be so inclined, some pics or link to site showing progress and final results are nice, too.)  Marina

Fish pond pump
>I have a pre-formed pond (shell shaped). I believe it is about 250 gal. For years I have been using a Beckett pump (350 gal/hr); it keeps the water clean, but tends to be high maintenance. I have read that OASE pumps are considered one of the best on the market. Can you recommend which particular pump/model would be best for my situation.
>>Going through their site I've come to the conclusion that you can go with one of two pumps, the Nautilus 10: 1/2" outlet; 660gph; 630@3'head; 550@5'head; $215.85 (Wowee, that one ain't cheap, but you can probably be assured of good quality).  There is also the Aquarius 660: 1/2" outlet; 660gph; $93.68 (no head listed, so not as much "push" if you're requiring something to push a waterfall or similar feature).  Neither pump comes with filtration, though I can see that the Aquarius pumps are easily plumbed inline w/filtration.  I am pointing you towards these larger pumps because we *really* want to see a turnover rate MINIMUM of 3x/hour.  I, too, have a 250 prefab, and I went with a 900gph Laguna (ordered from eponds.com) to be certain it could pull through the filtration and push just under 2' head.  I couldn't tell you it's a long-lasting pump because I've only had it set up less than a year.  I do hope this helps!  Marina
>Much obliged,  Hal Dusen

Pond pump problem
Dear WWM crew,
<Howdy>
Thanks for the great website!
<You're welcome>
I have a 10,000 gal Koi pond with a Aquadyne 4.4 bead filter.
I originally had an external Sequence pump rated a 4800 gal/hr and this year added a Sequence 6000 gal/hr pump. One pulls off the bottom drain, the other of the skimmer.
The pumps feed to the filter in separate 2 inch PVC flex pipe and connect with a "Y" fitting just prior to entering the filter. Overall head is about 4 feet.
<Feeding the filter with one pump is a better arrangement>
It appears that the pumps are working against each other and the overall flow is only minimally improved.
<Yes>
Should I plumb the pumps in series rather than in parallel (and which should be first)?
<I would either alternate which pump is on (one at a time) and install one way check valves (Please see here: http://www.wetwebmedia.com/PondSubWebIndex/chkvalvpds.htm) ahead of the "Y" so the water flow/pressure is directed to the filter, OR divert (likely the smaller pump) flow simply to recirculation>
Do you have any other recommendations?
<A few... but need to know more about your set-up, livestock, your desires. Bob Fenner>
Thanks for your help...again!
Sean

New pond builder takes on new construction of 6000 gal pond- help with filtration (pump sel.)
Hi,
I wanted to tell you that I have spend many evenings reading your great information. It cuts through the "marketing" and gets to the real details of how a pond works. naturally.
<Very glad to hear you find the site worthwhile>
My situation is:
I've calculated my estimated head loss for all the items in my "future" pond except for the pressure or head loss through a 40 watt UV ( I don't think I will need but will pipe in a splice incase) and the additional head loss going through a up-flow bog filter. I understand that I will have static loss of the height needed, and that I will be using these bog filters as the top of the water flow starts. The pond size will be about 5,500 gallons 2 to 3 ft deep. I tried to link to the section you mentioned in a FAQ on material size shape and type...etc but it does not link to the page.
<Really? thank you for this... will check... what is the link name? Is it something to do with pond filter material: http://www.wetwebmedia.com/PondSubWebIndex/pdfiltmedia.htm
Pond Size, Shape?: http://www.wetwebmedia.com/PondSubWebIndex/pddessize.htm>
I've been told if I make it too small then it will clog too fast and if I make it too big that I will not get the surface area needed.
<Ah, filter media... yes, these are general factual statements>
I plan to use a 230 gallon 60x 30x20 round waterfall bog style and a 100 gallon 30 x 30 x 18 same style for the other water fall. Can you direct me to where I might find these additional pressure or head loss answers. I know it depends on the size and shape...but I can not size my pump until I get this info. Especially since I think that there will be a large increase of head loss through these up-flow filters. I could be wrong and all I have to contend with is the static head.
<When, where in doubt do look for larger pumps (multiple phase motors if you have such power at your site), and have them "trimmed" back (generally the impeller, but within reason just restricting the discharge...) There are printed works (Escobal's comes to mind) on induced drag in plumbing, turns... and each manufacturer should be able to supply you (do look into the "Sequence" line for sure... real savings in the real costs: operation) with such data... Please see here: http://www.plumbingsupply.com/sequence.html
and: http://www.sequencepump.com/
Be chatting, Bob Fenner>
Please give me an idea.
thanks again,
Jack Schaub

Gorman Rupp Pumps
Dear Rob,
I was wondering if you know where i could get different models of Gorman Rupp pumps, i noticed that they do not sell to end-users (below 100 units).
<Mmm, Gorman-Rupp Company, http://www.gormanrupp.com/ is distributed by many other companies in turn... I would likely first use the "Yellow Pages" for your town/region under "Pumps" and on their ads will likely be listed GR's symbol... if they carry same... barring this, I would still call them and ask if they can/will order a pump for you. Otherwise there are dealers who will ship within their country...>
Is there any dealers you know that have taken orders for aquarist or are familiar with it? Went to some recommended dealers website, but mostly heavy duty stuff.
<Yes... we buy from Barrett Engineered Pumps, http://www.barrettpump.com/ 
here in San Diego... or at least used to years back... Ask for Craig Barrett, an old friend/accomplice. Bob Fenner>
Thanks in advance
John