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Salt as a preventative
11/5/07
Hello Mr. Fenner,
Great site! I am impressed by all
of the knowledge that is packed into this webspace. I however
note the lack (Did I miss it?) of mentioning the beneficial
effects of using salt for acclimating fish, especially Koi and
Goldfish. We have been using salt for about 16 years at our
facility and the difference in receiving and holding livestock
is amazing. My apologies if I did not see it mentioned at your
site.
Thanks
Jay D Doub
Blue Ridge Fish Inc.
<Ahh! So glad to hear from you... I
have purchased Blue Ridge's pond fishes, foods... for many
years... The last big go I brought them in for PetCo in the
early nineties. I do agree with your mention here of salt in
acclimation. And will add this note with credit to you. Cheers,
Bob Fenner, who can't remember the ladies names in the front
office I used to deal with, but somewhere have the old Christmas
cards with the staff on them>
Re: Salt as a preventative
11/6/07
I work for our wholesale division, the hatchery is on the
other side of the large Mecca of Kernersville NC. We wholesale a wide
variety of aquatics including saltwater while the hatchery sticks to
just coldwater.
<Ahh! Blueridge HAS expanded... I recall when "Butterfly Koi" was big
news...>
The lady you mention could be one of four: Brenda, Delores, Regan, or
Martha.
<Ah, yes... Brenda... How could I forget? The same name as my eldest
sister>
Delores and her husband Wyatt Lefever sold the hatchery to their eldest
son Randy.
<Oh>
He and his wife Karen own both the hatchery and our company. I have a
few of those Christmas cards as well! Give me an address and I will make
sure that a 5 lb. bag of Blue Ridge food makes its way to your door.
Since I only feed my koi between May and September you can take a
raincheck if you like. Make sure to specify regular pellet, small pellet
or blend (contains both regular and large pellet). It contains our new
formulation with ENCAPCELL a nucleotide product.
http://www.theroangroup.net/uploads/Media_Releases.pdf and here
http://www.blueridgekoi.com/Blue%20Ridge%20Fish%20Hatchery%20Fish%20Food.htm
<The very small would be appreciated... Though I write mainly about
marines nowadays, I keep goldfish... 8586 Menkar Rd., San Diego, Ca.
92126>
Also I sent you a couple of pics of Dotty, Foo Man Koi, and Tux
Butterflys. Enjoy! Jay
<Very nice. Thank you for all... Always great to hear from old friends,
companies in the trade. Cheers, Bob Fenner>
Salt as a preventative... and
adjunct to Pondfish acclimation. Neale's go 11/6/07
Hello Mr. Fenner,
Great site! I am impressed by all of the knowledge that is packed into
this web space. I however note the lack (Did I miss it?) of mentioning
the beneficial effects of using salt for acclimating fish, especially
Koi and Goldfish. We have been using salt for about 16 years at our
facility and the difference in receiving and holding livestock is
amazing. My apologies if I did not see it mentioned at your site.
Thanks
Jay
<Hello Bob, Jay. I'm not a fan of the routine addition of salt to
freshwater aquaria. For a start, aquarists often misunderstand its
purpose, and imagine adding salt improves the hardness of soft water. It
does not. When used thus, there's a lot of anecdotal evidence that fish
such as Mbuna become prone to 'Malawi Bloat', presumably because their
osmoregulation system ends up having to deal with a situation it hadn't
evolved to handle. It doesn't take a leap of imagination to suppose that
fish adapted to soft water environments, such as tetras, are likely to
be sensitive to salty water too. There's also this vague idea that
somehow adding tiny amounts of salt will prevent various parasitic
infections. While high concentrations of salt can be used as a
treatment, too many aquarists delay treating problems like Finrot or
fungus because they think adding a teaspoon of salt per gallon will do
the job for them and save them some money at the same time. Of course it
does nothing of the sort, and their fish continue to get sick and often
die because by the time they do spend the money on a proper medication
it is too late. The only scientifically grounded use for salt is in
reducing the toxicity of nitrogenous wastes. Salt is widely used thus on
certain sorts of fish farms where the fish are kept confined in ponds.
Salt may also be useful when used this way in retailer's tanks where
overstocking is common, and while fish are being shipped in cartons
without filtration. But in a well-maintained aquarium there shouldn't be
any nitrate in the water, and nitrate should be relatively low, so
adding salt becomes redundant. So just like activated carbon, aquarium
salt strikes me as Old School fishkeeping that provides no real benefits
other than handing money over to retailers and salt manufacturers.
There's nothing salt does that can't be done better by proper
filtration, regular water changes, and proper management of water
chemistry. I don't completely decry salt for niche functions like
treating whitespot on copper- and formalin-sensitive fish, but at the
same time I consider it Snake Oil of sorts as far as the regular
aquarist with a community tank goes. Cheers, Neale.>
<<Mmm, well... I do like "aquarium salt/s" (as in the mix of metals,
non-metals usually crudely derived from desalination via solar power)
for acclimation of pond fishes... I too have found them
to be efficacious in stabilizing "too dry" larger koi and fancy
goldfishes of size... and to some degree, eliminating the bulk of
external parasite fauna. BobF> |
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Is it safe for my 2 Labs to drink from pond with Pond Block? 8/5/05
Sales person who sold us Pond Block to get rid of algae said it wouldn't
hurt dogs even though package says "Hazardous to domestic animals." What do
you think?
Thanks,
Glenda
<I would direct your query to Jungle Products re... am sure they have MSDS
sheets re... Many years back (unless the formulation has changed) our company
used to make similar "bricks" of the same compound (Diuron, di-methyl urea
calcinate I believe)... was very safe. Bob Fenner>
Antibiotics recommendation? Pond treatments
Hello WWM Crew,
I am so glad I found your site. I've made it through most of the related sections and haven't found my answer just yet, so I'm trying the source.
<Okay>
With so many choices of antibiotics, can you assist me in selecting one? Story follows.
(Ampicillin, Tetracycline, Cephalexin, Ketoconazole, Amoxicillin, Erythromycin, Penicillin, Sulfamethoxine/Trimethoprin, Metronidazole)
<... these are not all antibiotics...>
Short version: Based on viewing from above, external fungus, potential parasites, possible internal bleeding...
Longer version: At least four years ago we started a pond of approx. 1000 gallons with about 13 goldfish/koi. During the life of the pond we have added depth and area, as well as filtration, to date it's about a 1500 gallon capacity pond shaped like a fat-bottomed number eight with about 2500 gallons of water actually flowing via a well/waterfall and two external filtration barrels. Remember the 13 fish? Each year we give away a growing number of them - first it was 50, then 80, I think last year we gave away over 120 fish and we still have over 60 in the pond. Even though we live in Eastern PA, the pond is maintained year-round (none of that "drain it each fall" stuff here) and it is maintained quite well. We recently hopped in to prep it for the spring by cleaning debris and re-introducing the plants. While doing this work we noticed that a
handful of fish were not in good health.
<From?>
We feel it would be impossible to quarantine (maybe even catch) all sick fish, so we are considering treating the entire system with antibiotics...
<Not a good idea... the utility of such compounds should be tested for... not practical for almost all hobbyists... their use in ponds is doubtful, due to many co-factors, principally mulm/biomass interaction... Much better to check, restitute water quality, add "salt", bolster immune systems through enhanced feeding...>
Suggestions?
Thanks,
Brian
<Keep studying, save your money on antimicrobials, don't blanket treat for something/s you don't understand the root cause/s of. Bob Fenner> Hydrometer (addition of salt to koi pond)
I need your help in testing how much salt I need to add to my pond. I
have done a partial water change and I need to know how much salt I can
add.
I bought a "SeaTest Hydrometer" and I need to know if is possible to test
my Koi pond water with this. If so, what should the reading be on the
meter for a pond with plants. Thanks for your help.
<Mmm, not really useful/practical to use a hydrometer for salt additions to ponds... the small amounts of salts in such applications are not easily, precisely, accurately measured by such a tool. The long and short of what I sense you want to know is "just how much" salt to add... as in per the volume of your system, end results of the addition. I would guesstimate how big (gallons... as in about 7.5 gallons per cubic foot... or by filling with a watch... and figuring how many gallons per minute in filling a "pickle bucket" of determinate volume), and add (incrementally, over a period of days), about a pound per one hundred gallons.
Much more to say/state... if you were interested in "how much" real salt you have already, and to augment you might look into a conductivity meter (rather than density measure with a hydrometer)or other "marine aquarium" salts measuring gear... Do take care in how much, how soon you add salt to your system... as the rapid die off of algae, sometimes beneficial nitrifiers, increased osmotic pressure... can be too stressful to your livestock (fishes, invertebrates and plants)...
And more to the point (at least mine) is "what do you hope to accomplish" by salt addition?
If any of this is incomplete, not clear to you, let's keep discussing ahead of application. Bob Fenner>
Re: Koi.... again
I wanted to get your opinion on a medicated food. It is called Medi-Koi. MEDI
KOI contains krill meal, fishmeal
<White meal I hope/trust>
, wheat germ, soybean meal, fish oil etc.
38% protein, 12% fat, stabilized Vitamin C plus many, many more Vitamins and
minerals. MEDI KOI contains four antibiotics consisting of the 2 in ROMET
(sulfadimethoxine & ormetoprim sulfa), PLUS Oxolinic acid and Kanamycin. (
copy pasted from the site).
Another thing is that Quality Koi in Philadelphia, PA says they can do the
swabs to see what it is.
<Ah, great>
The only thing is its about an hour and a half away.
<Worth the drive or expedited mail...>
They said dont feed him for a few days and possibly a battery operated pump,
bag him and put him in a cooler. Do you think this is more harm than good?
<Always a possibility... but an adventure! And learning experience par excellence...>
And please tell me what you think of the medi koi...thanks
<You can/could make your own... but it does sound like a worthwhile formulation. Very
valuable fish are often injected (if your vet. can get you some, the old standby: chloromycetin succinate...). Bob Fenner>
Fry shipping (koi juveniles)
No reef questions today. All is very well indeed.
<Ah, good to hear>
But a nice lady in Ontario
Canada noticed my pond on the web site and has asked for as many fry as I
can ship to her. She has even FedEx'ed a money order to pay for the
overnight delivery.
<Very nice>
I still have the insulated boxes from some of the
aquarium purchases and plan to use them for the shipment.
<Good idea>
My question: in a
typical quart LFS bag, how many small fry (2-3") can I safely put in each
bag?
<Better to ship these fishes all in double or even triple (if less than four mil) as-large-a-plastic bags as will fit in your boxes, in shallow water (unlike most marines that are best shipped individually), double or more tied closed on the top... Don't have bags? Oxygen? Ask a local fish store (LFS so called) to assist. Ask in my name even>
I plan on saturating the water with oxygen before bagging them, and
will time the delivery to FedEx with their shipping schedule.
<Good ideas, but do add pure oxygen as the "air space" in the bag... helps calm the fish down.>
Even the bridge I built over the holidays came out good.
<You're indeed on a roll! Do check the www.wetwebmedia.com pages... I will too, to see if I've placed any "shipping" sorts of documentation there under the "pond index" or "Aquatic business Index".>
Rick Farris
See our pond at:
http://www.koireef.cjb.net
<And best to only ship koi, goldfish in 55F. degree plus regular weather
days, times of year... Livestock very weak when cooler, stressed. Bob Fenner>
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