Clown Trigger in a FOWLR? - 06/26/06
Hi guys,
<<Don't forget we have some really sharp gals here too!>>
Having become bored with the petty squabbling and incessant bickering that I associate with so called "peaceful" reef fish, I am finally seeing the folly of my efforts in "reef" keeping and think I will return to the ruff and tumble world of FO.
<<Ay...to each his own>>
I have come to the conclusion that you lose more animals, more sleep, more money, more time, and more effort messing around with a reef that you have no time to actually enjoy it.
<<Maybe for you this applies...but as a "generalization", I disagree>>
At least with "big" fish you either have them or you don't - they either live peacefully, or they don't, and that is about the extent of the decisions one has to make.
<<I hope this is truly not your attitude towards the life in your care..."they either live peacefully, or they don’t,"..."and that is about the extent of the decisions one has to make."!!!  Reef tank or FOWLR, you still have the responsibility to provide acceptable living conditions/tank mates for these animals...which means researching and choosing proper specimens for the environment in which you plan to keep them and providing proper care re.  Perhaps this is where you failed with your reef?>>
So ...... now that I have that off my chest, I am considering taking all the livestock (except the LR) back to the shop.  I am then thinking of something centered around something big, mean and nasty, like a clown trigger - which is at least honest in that it is a wolf in a wolf's clothing!
<<Agreed...and should be the only fish in the tank...else it will be before too long>>
I would buy a decent size juvenile clown trigger - 3 or 4" maybe, and grow him on.
<<A good size to purchase>>
My tank existing reef tank is a 180, so basically I would be looking at keeping him, and maybe one or two other decent sized tankmates, and that would be it.
<<The tank size is suitable, but I urge you to reconsider adding "other" tank mates.  Either keep this beast on its own, or choose a different animal>>
Any suggestions what these tankmates might be?  I was thinking along the lines of a lunare wrasse or passer angel, or maybe both.
<<Eventual trigger food in my opinion>>
If I were to introduce all three fish, all at the same time (don't forget the tank is mature a few years), all at the same size, what would you think the odds would be of peaceful co-habitation - or is it likely that the clown trigger just murder them all......
<<Ah, yes...murder it would be.  Maybe not right away...but is inevitable>>
I was sort of hoping that the wrasse would be too quick, and the angel too smart, and that there would be a good enough differentiation between species to diffuse any real battles (in terms of diet, geographic origin, colour, shape, size, and behavior).
<<In the expanse of the wild this may hold true...but not in the confines of a 180 gallon tank>>
I would really like your thoughts on this matter.
<<Indeed...you have them>>
Thanks,
Regards,
Matt
<<Cheers, EricR>>

Clown Trigger in a FOWLR? II - 06/27/06
Hi Eric,
<<Hello Matt>>
Thanks for the reply.
<<Your welcome>>
I think you got the wrong impression from my previous email, and I just wanted to assure you I take the welfare of my animals very seriously and have a huge respect for any animal that has been torn from its natural environment solely for my viewing pleasure.
<<Ah...is good to know>>
I think you got the wrong vibe from my email so I just wanted you to know that I go to great lengths to ensure the well being of the animals in my care - I will be relying quite a lot on you guys (and gals!) over the next couple of months, and I would hate you to think you were wasting your efforts on some twat who had no real care for his little fishy friends.
<<Thank you for this my friend.  And while I never consider this a waste of time (is seen, reflected upon my many), it is reassuring to know you are not so "cavalier" about our wet-pet's well being as I initially surmised>>
I can see how you would miss read "they either live peacefully or they don't"..... I meant that to read that if you put say an angel and a tang together, you will know in no uncertain terms if they get on or not
<<Indeed>>
- and in my view constant fin flaring and displaying is as bad as an out and out fight,
<<Agreed...stress>>
and not acceptable in my view....... so if they don't get on, you clearly know - and can easily separate them - read as "catch a 6" angel in a FOWLR is a lot easier than a 2" flame angel in a reef"......
<<Mmm, yes indeed>>
I didn't mean to suggest if they fight, just let the best fish win, and the other perish.......I suspect you interpreted my mail that way.
<<I did...thank you for the clarification>>
I wouldn't say I have failed with my reef as such; I have just grown weary......  I have had a so called peaceful sixline wrasse murder a royal Gramma and a blenny.
<<Ah!  I think if you were to search/ask around the reef forums (RC, Reefs.org, etc.) you would find that a sixline wrasse is generally considered anything "but" peaceful>>
I have had a flame angel maim my clown fish.
<<Again...Centropyge sp. is known to be pugnacious...as are the clown fish.  I have to say, your choice of fish thus far sounds "less than peaceful" to me.  Granted, in a large enough system I would expect them to "get along"...but I would not consider any of them as "peaceful">>
I have a "peaceful" mimic tang that terrorized my regal tang (both small 3" specimens).....
<<But...this would not be considered unusual or uncommon...very often "luck of the draw">>
and so on...... conversely, when I kept FO, so called aggressive species, I lost a goby, and that was it - and he jumped out.....
I kept FO for 5 yrs, and reef for about 3.  But truthfully, I am a very 'conscientious marine aquarist' thanks in no small part to Bob, the wet web media founder.
<<Has helped/enlightened many...>>
I have stayed up many nights until 3 or 4 am to rescue fish, despite getting up for work at 7am, I have driven an 8-hour return journey to my nearest LFS <<Yowza!>> to return a sixline,
despite him murdering two of my fish - and didn't even get a credit note for a $20 fish that cost me about $60 in petrol!
<<I'm sorry Matt, the character you used to denote your currency was not interpreted correctly by our email server.  I'm not sure of your country of origin based on your email addy so I'm inserting dollar signs ($) instead>>
And generally, I typically take about a year between getting deciding I want a fish, then actually going out and getting one.
<<And researching thoroughly in the interim I hope <grin> >>
Anyhow, suffice to say the clown trigger is out.
<<Really best if you want more than a single-fish display in my opinion.  Balistoides conspicillum is a spectacular fish and it is easy to see their attraction for hobbyists (myself included). But their nature/personalities demand much respect for how they are housed.>>
I like the idea of two or three larger characterful fish.  I know its a broad question, but would you have any suggestions?
<<Hmm, let's see... Since your partial to triggers, I would consider one of the Rhinecanthus species...much better temperament for a FOWLR/FO tank in my opinion.  In your 180 this species of trigger would likely do fine with the Passer Angel you mentioned, but a better choice of wrasse over the Lunare might be from the genus Halichoeres.  Much research/decision making ahead...>>
About the only big fish I do not like are rabbit fish.
<<Really?  I have a 7"-8" Siganus uspi (Fiji Foxface) in my reef system.  I find them to be very personable and "peaceful" fish>>
Thanks for reading, and sorry if I gave the wrong impression in the previous email.
<<No worries mate, all cleared up now <G> >>
Regards,
Matt
<<Cheers, EricR>>

Clown Trigger, Yay or Nay?!  5/12/06
I have a question regarding Clown Triggerfish Selection.
<Sure-thing.>
I ran across one at the LFS yesterday.  
<Okay.>
It is about 2" from end of the nose to the tip of the tail.
<A bit small, juvies of this species don't really acclimate or ship well in my experience.>
Its stomach is looks pinched and it seems to have general signs of lack of food.
<Not un-common.>
  My questions first should a Clown Triggerfish in this condition be passed on or can they recover quickly?
<Depends, is he/she eating now, is the animal alert, "spunky", and aware of the aquarists presence.>
  Also I couldn't find an article on the website that details the selection of a Clown Trigger fish, could you point me to it or help me out a bit as to what to look for regarding size and appearance when purchasing one?
<I'm not sure if we have a article specifically on clown triggers but here is a general article that may help you; http://www.wetwebmedia.com/marine/fishes/triggers/selection.htm ; Adam J.>

What?!?! Fish stocking levels- adding a titan trigger
I know about its aggressive nature. I am putting it in a 180 gallon with a 2.5 ft Tesselata eel and a 12 inch unicorn tang. I also have a 120 gallon reef and a 125 gallon fish only tank with less aggressive fish. thanks for the reply.
<George... please reconsider this. Beyond the aggression, you will have a dangerously overstocked tank. I have to believe that you simply did not know what the potential adult size is of these fishes, although that makes you no less responsible for it.
Your eel is one of the two largest species in the entire Indo-Pacific attaining an adult size of... 10 feet long!?! By any definition it is cruel to keep this eel in a 180 alone for even 5 years (let alone with other fishes!!!). Many ethical aquarists doubt this species should even be kept in home aquariums that are so small. See profile here
http://filaman.uni-kiel.de/Summary/SpeciesSummary.cfm?ID=5391&genusname=Gymnothorax&speciesname=favagineus
The Unicorn tang you mention is a fish which needs vast stretches of open water. (Even has the nose like billfishes). It reaches an adult size of over 2 feet long. See profile here:
And then you want to add an extremely aggressive trigger (titan) that approaches three feet long. And so... if we take the sum total of 15 feet of adult fish length and cut that in half because of overcrowding and poor development and stunting... that still leaves 7.5 feet of fish that will not live to see a healthy 5 years of age, let alone a potential lifespan of a couple decades. I sincerely hope that you find a 1000 gallon fish tank before you find a titan trigger. You wouldn't happen to be keeping three St Bernard's in another 180 gallon aquarium around the house? <G> I'll keep the ASPCA number handy just in case. Anthony>

Clown Trigger
Hi Bob,
The 2 clowns I mentioned earlier at the LFS, someone brought it before I
could get my hand on it. Funny thing was sitting there for month and when
you kind of interested its gone.
<More of so and so's rules, eh? Ah, human "nature", perception>
By the way, how big a clown have you come across at your place? Imagine
a 18" clown would be like ? I sure would like to keep it. Is it easy to
have a pair?
Thanks. David.
>>
<Only if collected as such and placed in a huge system... thousands, tens of thousands of gallons. A foot and a half is about all this species attains... have never seen them together for long in the wild... have seen many disastrous attempts at housing more than one in a system... Real War.
Bob Fenner>

Clown Triggers
Question for you... I've seen beautiful pics of clown triggers, that have a
"leopard like" print near their dorsal area and a distinct line near their
"nose" and mouth. The ones I see at the LFS, between 1" and 1.5" only have
solid yellow patches near their mouth and back.
<Yes... age/development and regional variations>
Does their coloring change with maturity or is the region from which they're
captured the main differentiator of coloring? I want to make sure the one I
get eventually looks as beautiful as the ones I've seen.
<Both... the ones from further into the Indian Ocean are "better" for what you're looking for... but don't get imported much into the west... due to relative costs>
Some have clear fins and other pics I've seen show a bluish coloring on
their rear fin... again... does this come with age?
<This part more with "quality", health, happiness (yes I will use this term) of the individual. Bob Fenner>

Christmas Island Clown Triggers 29 Jun 2005
WWM Crew,
<Hi there>
    I am in the process of trying to obtain a Clown Trigger.  When viewing
photos of Clowns in books and on the internet, you usually see this fine example
with radiant coloring.
<Does vary... with mood, health...>
More times then not you also will see an almost
fluorescent green on the tail area as well as a very bright blue on the edge of
their fins, however when you see them at the LFS or see photos of other hobbyist'
Clowns, they mostly just exhibit black, white, and yellow colors.  When
asking my LFS about this, they stated that the more colorful Clowns originate from
the Christmas Islands.
<Island... Kiritimati... in the eastern Indian Ocean...>
Any truth to this???
<The fishes from this location are exceptional... mainly due to the good practices of the folks in the trade there>
My Clown is going to be the
centerpiece of my aquarium and I would like to be able to obtain one with this
type of coloration.  Wasn't for sure if there was anything that you could do diet
wise to help the Trigger exhibit these colors as well.  Thanks in advance for
your reply!!!
                                                              Jeff K
<Much has to do with the environment the fish is placed, kept in subsequently... Lots of room, circulation, filtration... low organics... Bob Fenner>

Christmas Island Clown Trigger
Bob,
Is there anything special about a Clown Trigger from Christmas Island, other than they are more expensive?
<A little easier going than the ones from the Pacific... and sometimes with more, smaller "spots" on lower half of the body. Bob Fenner>
Thanks,
Kevin
p.s. I loved your book!!

Christmas island
Christmas island was the host (location) of a number of atmospheric nuclear
tests in the late fifties and early sixties. Maybe this trigger glows in the dark!
<You're making my day! Bob Fenner>
Rick Klages

Clown triggerfish
Sorry to bug you with another question but you are absolutely the best source in the world! I have a 150g tank with a yellow tang, Naso tang, Lunare wrasse, emperor angel adult), sea urchin and now a 4" clown trigger that I just added. 
<Yikes... am sure you know that the last can be... "unpredictable">
I've always wanted a clown trigger but I have been scared about what they can do to the other fish. I always bought the baby clown triggers so they could grow up with the other fish and not be so mean, but, they always died after a few months!? 
<Hmm, unusual... might have been the source.>
So, I decided to get a little bigger one and hopefully this would work. My Naso tang is about 7", yellow tang about 5", Lunare wrasse about 7", and my emperor angel about 5" . I put the trigger in last night and he wasn't too bad but I could see how the other fish were afraid of him and didn't mess with him. He nipped at the Naso and the wrasse-2 fish that are a lot bigger than him! Are there certain things I should keep an eye on or try to do to keep him more at ease. Feed twice a day instead of once or something like that. 
<Keeping an eye on him/her is key... More frequent feeding not likely helpful>
I have a lot of coral so there are a lot of hiding places. Also it was the first day he was in the tank he might just be trying to assert himself. Are the other fish that I have able to hold their own? 
<The ones listed are amongst the more able to do so. Only time can/will tell how well they'll "get along".>
Thanks for all your help-you're the best! Kevin Ballard
<You're welcome my friend, good luck. Bob Fenner>

Titan Trigger
Do you know where I can buy a titan trigger? thanks, George
<perhaps... but do you know that this fish reaches 2 feet long, requires extraordinary amounts of food... and is extremely aggressive to other life forms including people. I believe that you probably do. It would be nice to hear about the system that this fish is going into? Best regards, Anthony>  

Re: do you know where I can buy a titan trigger thanks George
I know about its aggressive nature. I am putting it in a 180 gallon with a 2.5 ft Tesselata eel and a 12 inch unicorn tang. I also have a 120 gallon reef and a 125 gallon fish only tank with less aggressive fish. thanks for the reply. <I caught those details the first time. It doesn't change my reply at all. Cheers, J -- >