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FAQs on Marine Water Quality involving Nitrate Importance

Related Articles: Nitrates in Marine Aquariums, NitritesAmmonia, Establishing Cycling, BioFiltrationPhosphate, SilicatesNutrient Control and ExportDeep Sand Beds

Related FAQs: Nitrates 1, Nitrates 2, Nitrates 3, Nitrates 4, Nitrates 5, Nitrates 6, Nitrates 7, Nitrates 8, Nitrates 9, Nitrates 10, Nitrates 11,  & FAQs on: The Actual Science Re: NO3 Compounds, Sources, Measuring, Means to reduce: NNR (Natural Nitrate Reduction, Anaerobic Bacteria), Algae, Other Biota, Physical Filters, Chemical Filters... NitritesAmmonia, Phosphate, Silicates, Biological Filtration, Fluidized Beds, Denitrification/Denitrifiers, Bio-Balls, Wet-Dry Filters, R.O./Distilled/Treated Water Chemical Filtrants Deep Sand Beds

Excessive nitrogenous analog is deleterious to all aquatic life. Forcipiger longirostris (Broussonet 1782), Yellow Longnose, Long Longnose Butterflyfish.

Nitrate...      10/6/17
For Neale Monks and Bob Fenner
Hello again friends,
<Byron>
I’d appreciate your comments and reasoning about a question involving lowering nitrate. I will start by saying that I understand that nitrate like ammonia and nitrite is toxic to fish, though at much different levels/exposures and depending upon species or age of the fish (fry being more susceptible) [please correct me if I am incorrect here or anywhere else].
<This is correct; though the mechanisms, pathways if you will, for poisoning/toxicity of these nitrogenous compounds are different. NO3 in particular can be accommodated; i.e. much higher concentrations can be tolerated with long exposure>
Consequently, if one discovers nitrate levels in an aquarium are high, say 160 ppm [I am using an actual case from my work on TFF, and this is a stable state not something sudden], immediately reducing the nitrate to safe levels (under 20 ppm) is not in itself going to harm fish.
<Usually; yes>
I have been challenged on this, with the suggestion that the nitrate should be lowered gradually over days or weeks, similar to other adjustments.
<Mmm; no. Immediately lowering NO3 concentration is advised>
The idea apparently is that “old tank syndrome” is dangerous and rapid changes can be fatal; but I would respond that the danger with this is due more to pH, and ammonia being ammonium in acidic water and the sudden change to basic pH (pH shock, plus ammonium converting to ammonia) is the problem, not nitrates decreasing. My argument is that nitrate is not like other adjustments (GH, pH, temperature, or whatever) and being toxic the sooner it is lowered the better.
<I concur>
I maintain that any toxin in the water, be it ammonia, nitrite, very high nitrate, substances released from wood or rock that are detrimentally affecting fish, etc, are best corrected rapidly via significant water changes.
Comments please, with thanks.
Byron Hosking.
<Will ask Neale for his separate response here. Bob Fenner>
Re: For Neale Monks and Bob Fenner: Nitrate         10/7/17

Byron, Bob,
<Neale>
I don’t have any real insight into this. But I do wonder if there are differences between species and when comparing marine with freshwater fish. My point being that generalist freshwater fish are able to handle bigger water chemistry changes than more specialist species (or most marines) given they’d be exposed to such in the wild. For example, the pH of a pond can vary between around 7 to as high as 9 once photosynthesis kicks in and dissolved CO2 is used up.
<A useful point/speculation. I do think there are differences between salt/fresh, young/old, acclimated and not species, specimens. Have been to public aquariums that fed huge amounts of food to very large animals... that had thousands of PPM of NO3>
I’ve read before that the idea we can meaningfully acclimate fish to slight pH changes is actually erroneous anyway. The “float them in a bag for an hour” or “drip water into a bucket for an hour” approaches sound good, but supposedly the actual physiology works far more slowly than this. So for fish to actually adapt their blood chemistry (or whatever) actually takes far longer, and what we’re really dealing with is the degree to which fish can tolerate abrupt changes (i.e., shock) and then slowly adjust across days or weeks. Does this sound familiar to either of you?
<Yes; it does>
I do believe, Byron, that there’s a hierarchy of stress factors, and sometimes to minimise a severe stress (such as nitrite, ammonia or extremes of temperature) you may have to increase a mild stress (such as small pH or hardness changes) simply through doing water changes. Of course the standard advice should remain that water changes need to be made with water as similar to the conditions in the tank as practical.
So far as I know, nitrate toxicity hasn’t really been studied across a wide range of ornamental freshwater fish, but experimentally with things like goldfish you really do need quite high levels (100+ mg/l) to cause immediate health issues. In such situations, I think doing moderate water changes across a few days, rather than one giant water change, might be safer in terms of minimising sudden pH, temperature or hardness changes. But that said, if the new water was similar enough to the old, doing 90% water changes has been demonstrated to be perfectly safe in and of itself.
Anyway, keep me posted with what you learn!
Cheers, Neale
<And you, BobF>
Re: For Neale Monks and Bob Fenner        10/7/17

Thanks Neale and Bob.
<Welcome>
So what I take from both of you is that with the proviso that parameters (GH, KH, pH , temperature) are close enough to be called the same, a large water change to reduce nitrate from 160 ppm down to 10 or 20 ppm is not going to harm the fish, and is more advisable than doing smaller changes over weeks. I will assume my understanding is correct unless you say different.
<This is a good summation>
I do appreciate the benefit of your experience and knowledge on these issues.
Byron.
<Welcome. BobF>
Re: For Neale Monks and Bob Fenner    /Neale        10/7/17

I would 100% agree with this.
Triage of any kind is about balancing the big dangers against the minor stresses.
Cheers, Neale

Reef Tank Nutrient Balancing     11/11/14
​​Dear WWM Crew (Bob),
<Hey Wes>
First of all, with the advice you provided some time ago (http://www.wetwebmedia.com/movaqfaq5.htm, 9/1/14 post), I safely transferred over all my livestock and rocks to their new, roomier home (although now I see what a difference this makes, I now wish my new tank was 240 gallons instead of 240 litres). Although it is still early days (2 weeks), everything survived, is currently alive and my corals are beginning to calcify: my corals, critters and I would thus like to send you our collective gratitude for your help.
<Ah, welcome>
I wonder if I could trouble you for some more advice? My basic situation is that despite starting regular feeding, my reef-tank setup appears not to be accumulating measurable levels of nitrate and my phosphate has additionally remained low.
<Happens>
I guess the available advice (including on WWM) about this appears to be quite conflicting, but would I be right in thinking that even for more autotrophic corals, a low, measurable level of both would be advisable over undetectable levels?
<Yes; almost always so>
My question thus relates to how I should manage nutrients in my tank.
<Need to ask a question in return... is "all okay?". IF all organisms appear to be doing fine... I would not fret here>
A summary of my (hopefully relevant) tank conditions are as follows:
It is a 240l tank with 35kg live rock and 0.5in SSB + 80l refugium containing a 4in DSB (total water volume is approximately 285l-295l). LR is well established with populations of various microfauna, filter feeders and macroalgae (although the latter is not currently growing excessively). The system is 2 months old from the end of cycling right now, but half the rock is from my previous system and at least 9 months old. I think the tank is understocked (6 small captive-bred "SPS" colonies, 5 Lysmata shrimps, 10 trochus? snails and 3 Cerith? snails, no fish) although I have been feeding a home-made meaty ration for my corals/filter feeders every night for the last 10 days. I am running a Tunze 9006 skimmer (rated to 600l) full time but this appears not to skim all that much (no more than 200ml of dark skimmate per week).
<Again; fine>
There has always been a certain amount of detritus in the tank, particularly in the refugium, which has become a settling tank of sorts. I currently aim to change 5-10% of the water or thereabouts once every 2 weeks. Regular testing over the last 14 days has shown no ammonia/nitrite, nitrates consistently undetectable, and phosphates decreasing from 0.1mg/l to somewhere around 0.03mg/l (both relatively new Salifert test kits). I challenged the system once with about 0.25mg/l NO3 using potassium nitrate (apologies for lack of subscript),
<No worries>
but the level fell to undetectable within 6 hours and I dared not add more. The nitrate kit appears to be relatively accurate based on testing the diluted stock solution in RO water.
<Ok>
Otherwise, the main tank circulation is temporarily reduced to 8000l/hr from 16000l/hr as a snail broke my Vortech mp40 yesterday by going inside it while it was off and jamming the propeller when I started it up (ironically, said snail is completely fine. Grrrr!!!). Lighting is a custom LED build definitely sufficient for at least macroalgae if not corals. I dose using a three part system for Ca, Mg and alkalinity to advisable levels for a reef tank, although may also now add some Kalkwasser occasionally to counteract the high CO2 levels/relatively low pH (8.0-8.1 sometimes, rises on aeration with outside air) in my tank water.
So, broadly then, the question: What method(s) would you recommend to maintain a sufficient, yet healthy level of nitrate and phosphate for stony corals, and what levels would you aim for?
<Just what you're doing right now...>
From my reading, there are a number of different ways to accomplish this (and of course, most marine tanks have the opposite problem), so what is your opinion on the following strategies?
1) Increase feeding (gradually) to a level that generates detectable nitrate. If I do this, would I need to use GFO to remove phosphate if it starts to rise too high (say above 0.1mg/l) compared to the nitrate?
<Could do>
2) Decrease removal of the detritus from the LR and sand beds. Would this set a dangerous precedent in terms of building a nutrient reservoir that may later on cause the tank to crash?
<I wouldn't do this>
3) Put a small mechanical filter in to catch detritus and deliberately not clean this (although detritus is still removed as normal from the LR and sand bed).
<Nor this>
4) Reduce the amount of time the skimmer is running. Would increased levels of DOCs as a result of this be harmful to stony corals?
<Could try; not likely harmful at all>
5) Dose nitrate directly in the form of potassium nitrate.
<Unless there was a demonstrable reason to do this... I would not. Instead I'd rely on your feedings>
6) Increase the bioload with more livestock (I guess option 1 would do this by increasing LR microfauna, but I don't know if this is comparable to say, a small fish).
<Food in... excess energy... has got to go somewhere>
7) Reduce water changes or only change when nutrient levels rise. Would I theoretically be risking micronutrient depletion from the water over time?
<I'd stick w/ your current regimen>
8) A combination of some of the above (it's probably this, if anything, but hopefully you've already suggested your preferred methods in the individual feedbacks above).
<As stated above>
9) The opposite of all of the above: try to maintain water quality (aim for undetectable nitrate and phosphate), export as much as possible, keep a low bioload and feed minimally to a non-polluting level. In this case, it implies feeding provides sufficient levels of bio-nutrients for corals and microfauna and you don't want additional free inorganics in the water if this can be avoided, since this is the situation in the wild.
Any other suggestions?
<Just to enjoy your system, investigating the processes there in>
Also, I appreciate the anecdote in the last email you sent to my other address post-donation; it would be a dream come true if one of my relatives owned a successful marine aquatics business, but I suspect I'm not closely related to the owners of All Seas Marine, and we're of course separated by the Atlantic, which is inconvenient. That said, one can dream about it. Maybe if my career in medicine doesn't work out, I could go into professional coral-keeping and propagation. :)
<One never knows... as in soccer/futbol, best to keep ones passing lanes open>
Many thanks for your time,
Wesley
<And you for your sharing. Bob Fenner>
Re: Reef Tank Nutrient Balancing
     11/11/14
Dear Bob,
<Wes>
As before, your response speed is crazy. I guess you're at your computer, but still, I can't even get to my LFS and back in this time. I really appreciate it.
<<My question thus relates to how I should manage nutrients in my tank.>>
<Need to ask a question in return... is "all okay?". IF all organisms appear to be doing fine... I would not fret here>
As far as I can see, yes, everything that can move is actively out and about at night, and my corals are showing polyp extension/mesenterial filaments particularly on food addition.
>Ah, good<
<<So, broadly then, the question: What method(s) would you recommend to maintain a sufficient, yet healthy level of nitrate and phosphate for stony corals, and what levels would you aim for?>>
<Just what you're doing right now...>
<<Any other suggestions?>>
<Just to enjoy your system, investigating the processes there in>
LOL. A very polite way of saying I am worrying too much about my tank.
Advice taken.
Thanks for the helpful feedback.
Wesley
<Cheers, BobF>

Nitrates    8/24/13
Hi Wet Webbers: my problem is that I can't seem to get my nitrates to zero.
<Zero is not desirable (nor realistic)... you need a few ppm to support much of the life in/on your LR, elsewhere; that is desirable>
They range between 5 and 10 ppm
<Fine>

 and I have tried adding additional live sand and cutting back on feeding.
We do a 10% water change weekly. Tank details: 125 gal, FOWLR, approximately 125 lbs of live rock, Remora skimmer, Fluval G6 Hydrotech, Fluval 205 and 2 hang on the back Emperors (I removed the BioWheels from the Emperors because I read where they are bacteria breeders). Fish: lawnmower Benny, cleaner Wrasse (rescue), ruby red Hawkfish, royal gramma, raccoon butterfly, clown fish, flasher wrasse, powder blue tang (small), long-nosed Hawkfish, yellow tang, flame angel and Picasso trigger - all get along great.  Also have a hermit crab and several snails of various sizes.
Any suggestions to get the nitrates to zero?
Thanks, Diann
<Mmm; I wouldn't do this. Please read here:
http://www.wetwebmedia.com/nitratesci.htm
Bob Fenner>
Re: Nitrates      8/24/13

Hi again - think I might be a little confused about your last comment. Did you mean I should put my BioWheels back in?
<If all you have is 5-10 ppm [NO3], I well might>
Read the link and am still confused. My sand bed is about 1 1/2 to 2 inches.
<... Am a huge fan of fine sand DSBs... somewhere; a tied-in sump/refugium perhaps>
 There seems to be a lot of conflicting info out there on BioWheels so I welcome your expert advise. Thanks.
<Our information is rarely conflicting... Seek to understand the underlying science to decide for yourself. BobF>

Cycling - Nitrates too high for live rock?/Nitrate Control 3/1/12
Hi Crew,
<Hello Dave>
Is there a nitrate level that is too high for even live rock?
<?>
I acquired a tank recently, and saved as much of the water as  possible. Base rock came with the system. I am guessing the water was very neglected at the end of the last owner's tank maintenance process, and the base rock was also left to dry for a few days.
<Are you using the same substrate that was present in the tank?>
The tank has been up and running at my house for a week, with full circulation but no skimming yet.
I plan to seed the base rock with a few new pieces, to hopefully bring the base rock back to life. I also will restore the skimmer functionality.
I tested the water with a kit that only read nitrates up to a ">100ppm" reading. I hit the highest reading.
Please let me know what level you think is too high for live rock, and I will test and change water to reduce the level to what you believe is acceptable (i.e., with a more precise test kit that shows exact readings over 100). Then, I will add more seed pieces of live rock.
<A nitrate level of 100ppm is too high for a system, period.  It will lead to excessive algae growth and most fish will not tolerate that level of nitrate.  If you are using the old substrate
which likely has never been vacuumed/cleaned, I would discard and start anew. I also suggest replacing at least one half of the water with newly mixed salt water and get your skimmer up and running. 
Do read here as well.  http://www.wetwebmedia.com/nitratesmar.htm>
Thank you!!
<You're welcome.  James (Salty Dog)>
Dave
Re Cycling - Nitrates too high for live rock?/Nitrate Control 3/1/12

Salty Dog,
<Dave>
Thank you for the comments, and the link.
<You're welcome.>
I did give the substrate a (heavy) cleaning before putting the whole setup back together. I will follow your advice, and understand that the tank is not ready for my first fish entry until Nitrates are reduced as low as possible (and not exceeding 20ppm for my hardy fish only system).
<Might also want to see if your kit is reading total N or NO3.>
That said, do you think I should do the water change before the new live rock seed is added, or after? In other words, is there nutrient benefit to getting the live rock system re-established from the seed by allowing the high nitrate levels for 5-10 days at the beginning of the cycle? Followed by big water changes, possible vodka dosing, etc?
<I would remove one half of the water before doing anything.  Then remove the rock and substrate and siphon the remaining water out and discard.  You can then rinse the new sand, place in tank with the saved water and continue on with topping off the system with new salt water.  I would hold off on carbon dosing until the tank gets stabilized and has a functioning
denitrification filter along with a couple of hardy fish such as Yellow Tail Damsels.   You are using a reactor for the  bio pellets, correct?
James (Salty Dog)>
Re Cycling - Nitrates too high for live rock?/Nitrate Control 3/2/12

James,
<Dave>
Progress continues. I discovered today that I had a bad, old nitrate tester. Using a new kit, I found the nitrates to be 40ppm. Wow, a far cry from 100+. However, I will get nitrates managed way down before the fish are added.
<Good.  I suspected something may have been amiss with your test kit.>
 I did put fresh carbon and a live rock seed in the tank (covered with coralline algae etc). Tomorrow, I will leave on a 2 week road trip, and will have someone watch the tank, empty skimmate, etc. I will also have lighting cycle on the rock.
<I would not do this with nitrates at that level.  You will just be promoting nuisance algae growth and may keel over when you get home.>
When I get back, I will do a 30% water change to start...and continue at that level until the tank readings are consistently low.
<Sounds good.>
Tonight, I noticed some life springing from it, including a brittle star and a clam. Do you think the rock's life will survive the 2 weeks of nitrate levels?
<Yes.>
Also, do you think I should put a small piece of raw shrimp in the tank before I leave?
<No, you have enough waste in the system as is.  If anything, put a Yellow
Tail Damsel in there to fuel the denitrification bacteria.  They are rather peaceful fish and you will not have to remove it when you begin stocking the tank.>
Finally, I don't see that the skimmer has been pulling any brown skimmate from the system over the last several days. Why do you think that would be?
<Several possibilities; dirty reaction chamber/neck, blocked air line, pump too small for skimmer....
Quite often, venturi inlets become clogged with calcium deposits and can easily be cleaned out with a
proper sized drill bit.  May want to skim through here. 
http://www.wetwebmedia.com/skimmaintfaqs.htm>
Thanks...Dave
<You're welcome.  James (Salty Dog)>

Diatoms and low nitrates - your opinion? (Anything to add Bob?) 1/19/10
Hi Crew,
<Hello>
Just a quick question. Do you feel there is any validity to the theory that low nitrate levels in aquariums encourage diatom growth?
<Not in my opinion.><<Nor mine; may be a contributing factor... in so much as a lack of some necessary nutrient for competing organisms might serve preferentially to promote diatoms. RMF>>
I am of the opinion that diatoms occur when tanks are new, tanks that are new are low in nitrate, so it is more of a guilt by association thing.
Just wondering your thoughts on this...
Thanks!
Nicole
<My personal opinion is that it is more of a case of diatoms being a simple and fairly undemanding life form is best able to colonize the relatively barren environment that is a new tank, along with Cyanobacteria. As the environment stabilizes higher forms usually come about and outcompete the diatoms and limit their numbers. I don't think Nitrates plays a big role in it, but Bob can/will comment if he has anything to add. Generally for Diatoms silica/silicon is the limiting growth factor.>
<Chris>

High nitrate's effects on Naso's skin? Naso Tang/Health 3/26/09
Hello,
<Hello Dee.>
I have recently began lowering my very high nitrate levels, I was dangerously overfeeding my tank. My Naso's skin has gotten blotchy, kind of looks like it's orange-peeled in texture along with dark grey small patches. Her eyes & fins
are all clear. Eats great, swims and acts the same. If this is stress markings from the high nitrates, what's a ballpark figure on how long before it clears up?
<Depends on how long before your "high" nitrate levels drop to a safe range.  It has been 5 days since these markings first appeared. I have done large water changes in my 300 gallon tank. Employed some activated carbon, Seachem's De-nitrate
in filter bags in the sump, next to the 40 gallon 'fuge. I will add some Chaetomorpha to refugium tomorrow to help lower the nitrates even more.
<A start.>
I feed less, water is much clearer now. I have removed the filter sock,
<I'm not a fan of filter socks as they trap debris in the micron size and the water is constantly flowing through this and creating high nutrient levels.>
and employed Poly-Filter in the slot of the second chamber. I am too afraid to post the nitrate numbers, your jaw would
hit the floor.
<Would have been better if you did post the numbers, gives us a realistic idea of how high the levels really are.>
I am very upset, I should have tested weekly, I did not. My 8" Naso is my special fish.  No other inhabitants' skin is affected, just hers. Can you please help my nerves with this one? With consistent 15% water changes every other day for a week, then back to my regular regiment of 10% a week, can I hope to see her skin condition improve in time?
<Weekly water changes will help, but the use of a quality protein skimmer will certainly speed up the process and further prevent nitrates from rising provided an efficient skimmer, and one sized for your tank is used.  You mention nothing of using one so I'm assuming you're not using one.>
I have read through the FAQ's, and have seen the above remedies help in lowering nitrates.
<In your case, you would be better off using Chemi-Pure, a high grade activated carbon combined with scavenging resins. In your size tank, we would be looking at using six units of the product and to be effective, the water needs to pass through the product, not around it. Seriously, do consider purchasing a protein skimmer, will create much better water quality for
your animals.  Have you read here and related articles?
http://www.wetwebmedia.com/nitratesmar.htm>
Sadly, Dee.
<And I James, not being in Cozumel with Bob and Scott.  Cheers. James (Salty Dog)>

Re: High nitrate's effects on Naso's skin? Naso Tang/Health 3/26/09
Fantastic feedback, thank you James. I have learned so much from your responses to others.
<You're welcome.>
Okay, here's the nitrate numbers. It was at 200 last Sunday, yes, you read that right.
<Yikes, what kind of test kit are you using that will read that high? Is your kit measuring total nitrogen or NO3?>
After one water change, and added filter media, it went down to 80.
<A big improvement.>
The next day, another water change, it went down to 50, where it has remained for the past 3 days, even with another water change.
<You are at a point now where you are importing more nutrients than the skimmer/system can export.>
So sorry, I neglected to mention that I am running a ASM G1 skimmer, and my LFS said I need more like a G3 instead for my sized system. He suggested I run the skimmer "WET" .....he came over and raised the tube with the black sponge around it higher, I now have less foam. Do you agree that running it wet will help?
<I like to set up skimmers so the skimmate is on the dark side. I'm thinking the skimmate your skimmer is producing now is
tinted more like tea. Your dealer is correct, the G1 will not do it, and either will the G3 which is rated for 250 gallons max.
If you like this brand of skimmer, go with the G4 which is rated for up to 350 gallons.>
If so, how long until I push the tube back down below the neck of the skimmer?
<Let it run awhile, see what color and amount of skimmate you get out of the tank in a day or two. If it is light in color, push the tube down about 1/2", then evaluate again. When you get to a point where the skimmate isn't any darker, then that is where I'd leave it.>
I have seen that Chemi-Pure and am on my way out to purchase it right now.  I have your recommended dosage for my sized system, and will get that plus more. How often should I change it out?
<Well, they say every six months, but I've never found that to be true.  With your present nutrient level, I'm thinking about one month and with the next change, likely two months. It is important to have some type of mechanical filter ahead of the Chemi Pure to increase it's useful life.>
Salty Dog, thank you just isn't enough. This issue has caused daily nosebleeds, I need help, and was just too afraid to put the numbers here.
<We are here to help you Dee, not criticize you. We all have been down that road before and have learned from our mistakes and/or lack of knowledge.>
I have also read that adding a Mangrove plant in the 'fuge will help, as well. I am searching for one.
<Put your money toward a skimmer that will handle your tank, will do much more good than the mangrove will at this stage.>
The Naso began with black blotches all over, face, gills, body, etc....I thought it was Black Spot, but tested my water, saw the nitrate numbers and quickly realized it was probably stress markings. All of the blotching has gone away now with the exception of her back and sides. Face, gills are all smooth and grey again, like normal. Yes, that filter sock was packed with
debris/uneaten food. Thank you so much.
<Yes, a double edge sword here.>
I await your response re: the duration of running the skimmer wet, the Naso's approx. recovery time,
<I couldn't begin to estimate recovery time, too many variables. Most importantly, it is better to feed more often with smaller portions per feeding than to put out the grand buffet a couple of times a day.>
and the frequency of changing out the Chemi-Pure. You are my lifeline right now. Please help. I have seen some of the articles in the link you provided, but not all. I will read through once I return with the Chemi-Pure.
<Great. What you need most right now is patience, this didn't happen overnight and it isn't going to go away overnight.
Thank you.
<You're welcome, and you will get through this. James (Salty Dog)>
Dee.

Re: High nitrate's effects on Naso's skin? Naso Tang/Health 3/26/09
James, is the Chemi Pure product you recommend by Boyd's?
<Yes.>
That is the only brand I've seen with this name on it. There are two versions, a regular one, and one that's labeled "elite", which removes phosphates and silicates as well as what the regular one removes. Which do you recommend?
<In your situation, the standard Chemi-Pure will do more for you right now than the Elite, more carbon and resins will be present to better absorb excess nutrients. James (Salty Dog)>
Dee.

High nitrate's effects on Naso's skin? Naso Tang/Health 3/27/09
Salty Dog,
<Dee>
what a lifesaver you are. I hate to hog up so much of your precious time, but please walk me through this like I'm 5 years old, I will not be offended. I will purchase a mechanical filter tomorrow. Honestly, what is it? What kind, brand, size do you recommend? Where do I put it?
<Dee, you are scaring me now, you do not know what a mechanical filter is? A mechanical filter is any filter that can trap debris, uneaten food etc. Your filter sock can be identified as a mechanical filter but would not work in this application.>
I will put it ahead of the Chemi-Pure as you suggested, but please tell me where to put the mechanical filter as well as the media bags. Do I use the carbon along with the Chemi-Pure?
<Not necessary to use carbon with Chemi-Pure, it contains carbon.>
I have a 40 gallon refugium, separated into 3 sections. First section, water from the main tank pours down into it. The skimmer is there. That is where I've placed the bags of carbon and SeaChem's De-nitrate.
<For now, remove the bags of carbon and place the Chemi-Pure bags in their place. I'd also like you to send a couple pics of your sump. We may be able to devise a way of using the Chemi-Pure more effectively without you having to purchase a filter.>
The second section is where the sand, live rocks, algae plants and sponge are growing.
<Good, a refugium is incorporated here.>
Third section, 2 return pumps, nothing else. I paid the local guy in my area thousands of dollars for this set up. He brought everything out, I never questioned the size, brands, anything, just trusted he'd keep his word and give me top of the line everything, in sizes appropriate for my system. Two years later, I am learning that one thing after another is too small and inadequate for my tank.
<Is the exact reason you need to educate yourself more, don't assume or trust everyone's suggestion(s). I would think that after two years you would be a little further down the road.>
So this skimmer <ASM G-1> is what was installed on it,
<Don't understand why your LFS would install an undersize skimmer on your tank. I'd be a little skeptical with him.>
I have no preference for the brand, I will replace with whatever you recommend, please.. Yes, the skimmer had light colored liquid in it, not dark as usual. I pushed it back down. Please explain what that does, moving that tube up and down.
<Basically, the higher the water level in the skimmer, the lighter the skimmate. You "pushed it back down", why not follow my suggestion in the previous email? Don't go from one extreme to the other. Read again and read the instructions that came with the skimmer.>
You said with my 3 water changes I am now importing more nutrients than I am exporting.
<No, I did not say that, go back and read again. I said you are at a point where the skimmer cannot export the nutrients at the same rate they are being imported, simply said, the skimmer is too small for your tank.>
I should now then go back to my weekly water changes, rather than every other day?
<Yes, do 10% weekly, right now you are wasting your money with every other day changes. You need export help by way of a skimmer sized for your tank.  Changing water helps by dilution but can get expensive in the long run, and is time consuming as you well know.>
<I should have asked this earlier before this turned into a saga, but how many fish, and their approximate sizes do you have in this tank?>
I don't understand. I use 2 different test kits, both strips, and both are the 5 in 1 types, measuring pH, hardness alkalinity, nitrite, nitrate, and ammonia. One is by Jungle. It measures nitrate is quantities of 0, 20, 40, 80, 160, 200 ppm. I Googled it, there is no specific mention of it measuring total nitrogen or just NO3. So, I'm not sure. I also use a test strip kit by Mardel, same 5 in 1 style. This one specifically says it is measuring NO3 ppm at levels of 0, 20, 40, 80 and 200.
<Well, that's some relief, a kit measuring N-NO3 would have to be multiplied by 4.4 to get the NO3 (nitrate ion) level. I'd do away with these 5 in 1 strips and get a kit dedicated to measuring NO3 only. Aquarium Systems, Salifert and a few other companies have inexpensive nitrate kits that will be easier to read than the strips. Better yet, get kits that are dedicated to measuring an individual water parameter. My personal preference are the Salifert Kits.>
I am terrified here.
<You are scaring me also.>
Thank you for the reminder that you all are here to help us, and that this did not happen overnight, nor will it straighten out overnight. Indeed, I was laying out the buffet 3-4 times a day. That is under control now. Please advise.
<Right now, follow the above suggestions and do send photos of the sump and other items I've asked you for above. It would be beneficial to me for you to send a photo of the tank, I'd like to see what I'm dealing with. Also, measure the length and width of the skimmer section in the sump. I cannot recommend a skimmer without knowing your available space. Skimmers vary in footprint dimensions and we want to make sure we get one that will fit in the area provided. I will then link you to a LFS/etailer than can provide you with your needs and save you some money to boot. Where are you located. I also feel that you need to learn/read more about this hobby.  Here is a link to our marine index which will lead you to most any topic dealing with marine aquariums. Do spend some time reading/learning here.
http://www.wetwebmedia.com/marine/setup/marsetupindex1.htm
When replying, do not break up the entire thread as you have here, always "reply to". Doing so prevents me from going back to all the previous emails if I need to.?
James (Salty Dog)>
Thankfully, Dee.

High nitrate's effects on Naso's skin? Naso Tang/Health 3/26/09
Fantastic feedback, thank you James. I have learned so much from your responses to others.
<You're welcome.>
Okay, here's the nitrate numbers. It was at 200 last Sunday, yes, you read that right.
<Yikes, what kind of test kit are you using that will read that high? Is your kit measuring total nitrogen or NO3?>
After one water change, and added filter media, it went down to 80.
<A big improvement.>
The next day, another water change, it went down to 50, where it has remained for the past 3 days, even with another water change.
<You are at a point now where you are importing more nutrients than the skimmer/system can export.>
So sorry, I neglected to mention that I am running a ASM G1 skimmer, and my LFS said I need more like a G3 instead for my sized system. He suggested I run the skimmer "WET" .....he came over and raised the tube with the black sponge around it higher, I now have less foam. Do you agree that running it wet will help?
<I like to set up skimmers so the skimmate is on the dark side. I'm thinking the skimmate your skimmer is producing now is
tinted more like tea. Your dealer is correct, the G1 will not do it, and either will the G3 which is rated for 250 gallons max.
If you like this brand of skimmer, go with the G4 which is rated for up to 350 gallons.>
If so, how long until I push the tube back down below the neck of the skimmer?
<Let it run awhile, see what color and amount of skimmate you get out of the tank in a day or two. If it is light in color, push the tube down about 1/2", then evaluate again. When you get to a point where the skimmate isn't any darker, then that is where I'd leave it.>
I have seen that Chemi-Pure and am on my way out to purchase it right now.  I have your recommended dosage for my sized system, and will get that plus more. How often should I change it out?
<Well, they say every six months, but I've never found that to be true.  With your present nutrient level, I'm thinking about one month and with the next change, likely two months. It is important to have some type of mechanical filter ahead of the Chemi Pure to increase it's useful life.>
Salty Dog, thank you just isn't enough. This issue has caused daily nosebleeds, I need help, and was just too afraid to put the numbers here.
<We are here to help you Dee, not criticize you. We all have been down that road before and have learned from our mistakes and/or lack of knowledge.>
I have also read that adding a Mangrove plant in the 'fuge will help, as well. I am searching for one.
<Put your money toward a skimmer that will handle your tank, will do much more good than the mangrove will at this stage.>
The Naso began with black blotches all over, face, gills, body, etc....I thought it was Black Spot, but tested my water, saw the nitrate numbers and quickly realized it was probably stress markings. All of the blotching has gone away now with the exception of her back and sides. Face, gills are all smooth and grey again, like normal. Yes, that filter sock was packed with
debris/uneaten food. Thank you so much.
<Yes, a double edge sword here.>
I await your response re: the duration of running the skimmer wet, the Naso's approx. recovery time,
<I couldn't begin to estimate recovery time, too many variables. Most importantly, it is better to feed more often with smaller portions per feeding than to put out the grand buffet a couple of times a day.>
and the frequency of changing out the Chemi-Pure. You are my lifeline right now. Please help. I have seen some of the articles in the link you provided, but not all. I will read through once I return with the Chemi-Pure.
<Great. What you need most right now is patience, this didn't happen overnight and it isn't going to go away overnight.
Thank you.
<You're welcome, and you will get through this. James (Salty Dog)>
Dee.

Nitrates:), reef maint.    7/31/08 Hi Bob/Guys hope you are well, I have started reading your sight alot <... no such word> of late and have found it great and informative reading, but however has raised a few questions which I hope you can answer. My set up consists of a 125G tank 30G sump, I have 55 Kilos of Fiji/Tongan liverock , <What is going on with the grammar in this msg.? Do you run your writing through a grammar checker?> Instant ocean 1200 skimmer in sump with a Deltec pump set up for ROWAphos, PolyFilters etc,Deltec Kalk stirrer,wavebox set alternately powering 4 1000lph powerheads <Lots of gear> My tank is just over 2 years old and consists mainly of my favourite stony corals including G.Stokesii,Branching Alviapora,Elegance,Frogspawn and Hammerhead Euphyllia,several Caulastrea,one Acanthastrea and a lovely now softball sized red Closed Brain. I also have several rapidly growing species of Caribbean Gorgonians( strictly Photosynthetic ones of course). Fish include a 5" Zebra Lion, 4" Sailfin Tang, Pair of Leopard Wrasse, pair of Emperor Cardinals,3" Marin Beta. Now to my problem, well actually its only been a problem since reading your site but pretty much from the word go my Nitrate readings have been 30 ppm I do 12% water change per week with r/o and test water weekly keeping a log of readings typically 1.024 salinity 430 calcium 1300 Magnesium 0 phosphate/nitrite/Ammonia KH 10,PH 8-8.3My nitrate has been 30 or sometimes slightly less for well over a year even though I have added no fish or Coral in more than 16 months and to be honest the tank looks great. I understand from a fair bit of research that quite a few stonies like more lagoon like nutrient rich water, <Relatively... yes... and the poritids you have need such... the other Scleractinians fine with this> the question is is this why they all seem to be growing and happy or am I awaiting disaster ? <... no worries> Assuming disaster is around the corner I have 14 x12 x 10 space in my sump which I could either turn into a Mud refuge I think I have read every faq on this site) or I could fit about another 15kilos of rock in the sump. So in short am I playing with fire with nitrates and if so which is best use of the sump in your opinion. Thanks for your forthcoming reply and your great work on this site. <I wouldn't "sweat" the NO3 concentration here... as all is/seems to be functioning fine. Cheers, Bob Fenner>

Snails, Stars and Nitrate 03/15/2008 My tank's ammonia and nitrite's level is always zero but my nitrate is stuck at 0.05. I just did a 25% water change and it is still 0.05 ppm. What can I do besides water changes to lower the nitrate level? <<there is seriously nothing to be concerned about with a level of nitrate of 0.05>> pH: 8.4-8.6 <<fine>> Also, in my trash I found a turbo snail that I accidently threw away two days ago (thought it dead, I was proven wrong just now). Amazingly, it is alive in my marine aquarium after two days in the trash (good thing the garbage was moist :) . Another hitchhiker is a small starfish. Very small starfish (few mm across with three long arms and two stubs). <<Yes, its amazing how hardy they can be. I have a couple who regularly spend time above the water line on my tank>> What is the maximum ppm nitrate these animals can tolerate? <<I always think around the 20ppm MAXIMUM kind of level>> As for the starfish, I have a 20 gallon and I know they get very big so I am pretty concerned with how fast they grow. Do I have to feed it often when it stops eating algae? It is very small at the moment. <<Sounds like an Asterina star.. More info can be found here on these and by reading the linked articles and FAQ's http://www.wetwebmedia.com/asterinafaqs.htm >> Thank You. <<Hope the above helps, thanks for the questions. A Nixon>>

Maroon Clown Acting Strange, Very High Nitrates 9/12/07 Dear Crew Member, <Hello> I have a 4" gold-striped maroon fish who I've had in my 40 gallon salt water aquarium for well over a year. He has always been healthy and loves to nestle in his bubble tip anemone. The anemone has shrunk over time and now the clown fish avoids the anemone and consistently shimmies in almost a vertical position as if he is struggling to reach the top. <Clowns do have strange behaviors, the concern here is what is wrong with the anemone?> He has no outward signs that I can detect such as ulcers; however, his dorsal fins are noticeably clamped down. The only redeeming quality is that he is still voraciously eating with all my other fish. <A good sign.> Once he finishes eating, he resumes his behavior of shimmying. I've never noticed this behavior before. Is this behavior symptomatic of "velvet"? <Does not sound like it to me. http://www.wetwebmedia.com/amylloodiniumart.htm > All my parameters are within range except for my nitrates which are 100 PPM. <Very high, dangerously high, this is your problem.> I change 5 gallons every two weeks but I have neglected to use my Pura NitrateLok packs because I haven't regenerated them yet. <Set up the water changes and find the source of the nitrates, NitrateLok is just a band-aid. Are you overfeeding, overstocked?> Please advise whether you suspect some underlying illness or whether this behavior is typical or atypical with clown fish. Thanks in advance for your prompt response. Sincerely, Tom <Get those nitrates in line and I bet you see an improvement in the anemone and overall happier tank. The clown's behavior on its own is not terribly troubling, most likely it just found a new place to host since the anemone is no longer viable.> <Chris>

Please help me! what are the symptoms of high trates on Acro's?   9/4/06 Dear Mr. Fenner, <"Ralph"> after going nearly insane for months, it "appears" that I have found my problem with my Acro tips receding, bleaching, or sloughing, & then, eventually dying. The test kit that I was using over the past year was showing 0 trates for the last 9 months. (It was showing nitrates in the 5-20 range the first 3 month, however). I tested trates about 3 weeks ago with Salifert, and it showed 25!!!!!! So for the past 6 months, I can only guess that my trates were between 25-80!!!!!! trates are down to 5 right now, & I expect them to be 0 soon as I am using AZ-NO3. other params are as follows: temp: 80 Salt: 1.26 <Missing a zero here> phosphates: .008 Calcium: 440 Alk: 9.0 / 3.2 Mag:1500 2 questions: 1) would sky high trates cause the tips to do that? <Mmm, could... or perhaps better put, whatever the cause of this high nitrate reading might well be involved> 2) if you have used AZ-NO3 before, what do you think? Also, were all fish, Acro's, inverts ok? <Maybe... is a good product... generally "works"> Thanks A lot for your feedback! Ralph Scheriff Hobby Experience: 08-23-2005 Current Tanks: 55 gallon Reef, AGA mega-flow II sump, ASM G-2 Skimmer, 2 x 150 HQI & LED, fuge, 65 #LR, reactor w/ ROWA, Tunze 6060, Seio 820, Seio 620, Various SPS, 1 Pagoda, 2 Clowns, 3 Chromis, Gamma, Talbot, & YWG. <You should see some improvement in your SPS within a few weeks if the high nitrate was a direct cause. Bob Fenner>

Naso Hunger Strike and High Nitrates   2/2/06 Hi again, <Hello Mordy, Adam J with you this time.> My 6 inch Naso, who has been with us for about 5 months (in a 125 FOWLR with some other friends) has gone on a hunger strike. When I first got him it took me nearly three weeks to get him to eat after which he ate anything I fed, like a pig. Feedings are daily flake, frozen and Nori. Past week he has not been eating, wandering aimlessly, swimming through food and hanging around the Nori but not eating. <Hmm, any obvious stresses that would have caused this? How long has the hunger strike ensued?> Belly is starting to get noticeably pinched but still swimming actively. Does not appear to be sick nor do any tank mates. I have three things that I think it may be related to; 1. recently added about 45lbs of LR to the 130 already there (changed his living space no doubt), 2. Higher nitrates 40-50ppm <Mmm, yes surgeons are quite sensitive to high levels of wastes/dissolve organics in general, in a FOWLR you need to get this number no higher than 20, 10 and less is preferred.> 3. elevated phosphates. Any of these things sound like a good enough reason? <See above.> What can I do to rectify the situation? <Large water changes and possibly try adding a nutritional supplement to the food like Selcon, also consider some fresh algae (such as Gracilaria) or even live brine; yes I know it's not nutritious but better than nothing.> Thanks for all your help, past & present. <Anytime.> Mordy <Adam Jackson.>

High Nitrates in a Nano System - 05/14/06 Hello everyone, <<Hello!>> Thanks in advance for your help and all the great information on your site.   <<Quite welcome...glad you find it useful>> I have a 12 gallon eclipse system that has been set up for a little over 4 months with about 15 lbs of live rock and 1 1/2-inch sand bed. I've also upgraded the stock light to a 32w SunPaq 50/50 and added a sand shark internal filter for extra flow.  After reading about the bio-wheel I took it out and am now running the stock filter with Chemipure and some filter floss changed every few days.   <<Great!>> My inhabitants are: 2 firefish, 1 percula clown, 2 feather dusters, 1 open brain, 4 crabs, 1 red foot snail, 1 sand sifting star, <<The star will not live in this small system...please do some reading here and among the links in blue: http://www.wetwebmedia.com/sndsftstrfaqs.htm >> 1 skunk shrimp, zoanthids, and 4 mushrooms.  Even with  twice weekly 1 - 1 1/2 gallon water changes, I am constantly battling high nitrates. <<Mmm, your source water maybe?>> They stay around 60 ppm. <<Yikes!  This should be having deleterious effects on your livestock.  Check your test kits...use new/kits of a different brand to confirm>> My ammonia and nitrite levels are at 0.  My feeding schedule is as follows: 2 or 3 flakes of Formula One broken up into edible pieces, 4 times per week, 1/4 inch of Liquid Life Marine Plankton, 3 times per week, <<I would suspend feeding this product (any/all liquid foods) until you determine/correct your nitrate problem>> 2 pellets of Formula One, twice per week, hand feed brain one small piece of frozen scallop twice per week.  All the inhabitants seems to be doing well.  The Zoa's are multiplying, the brain is nicely colored and eats well, and the fish do not seem to be distressed at all.   <<Which makes me suspect your test kit all the more>> My question is, would it be beneficial to also add Purigen in the filter with the Chemipure?  Any suggestions in battling this nitrate problem would be very helpful. <<The Purigen could prove useful on this system...but more important is determining the source of your nitrates.  If the nitrate reading is true, it will soon start to malaffect your livestock.  Firstly, confirm the validity of your test kit, if accurate, check your source water (are you filtering your water?)...if both test kits and source water check out, start doing 50% water changes every other day to bring the nitrates down until you can determine/eliminate the source...and have a read here:  http://www.wetwebmedia.com/nitratesmar.htm >> Thanks, Debra <<Regards, EricR>> 90 Gallon Reef Tank, nitrate 7/23/05 Hi Guys, I have a 90 gallon reef tank that has been up and running for over a year. All is well other than my feelings about my livestock and a possible overstocking issue. I currently have 5 small Green Chromis, 1 Neon Dottyback, 1 Lawnmower Blenny, 1 Malaysian Clown, 1 medium Hippo Tang, 1 Medium Sailfin Tang ( I know, but they seem to get along just fine :), 1 Six Line Wrasse,  1 Jawfish, 2 Black Ocellaris Clownfish, 1 Blackcap Basslet, and 1 Blue Chromis. That's right 16 fish in all. My corals include 1 HUGE Toadstool Leather, Ever reproducing POM POM Xenias, 1 Devils hand, 2 clusters of Sun Polyps, some star polyps, 1 Large Sebae Anemone, 1 Leather finger coral, Several Ricordea rock and mushroom rocks, some Seamat, and 130lbs of coralline encrusted liverock. I also have a cleaning crew of several Brittle/Serpent/Sand Sifting Starfish, many hermit crabs, a Sally lightfoot, Porcelain crab, Turbo Snails, 2 Cleaner Shrimp & 20 or so Nassarius Snails. (Hope I got that last one right :) <Quite an assemblage> I change 10 gallons of water every week religiously using R.O. only. My Ammonia and Nitrites are 0. PH is 8.4. Alkalinity is in the 200 range. Nitrates are currently in the 30ppm range most likely due to the bio load. I use the quick dip test strips several times a week. The corals are acting normal, Sun Polyps open in the P.M. all others in the A.M. when the actinics kick on. I feed sparingly, maybe too sparingly but I want to keep my water as good as possible. My question is, are my Nitrates too high? Should I downsize my bio load or change more water weekly. What do you think??? Thanks in advance..... Doug- <Sounds like a very nice, well-maintained/operated system... Nitrate concentration, as an abstract, concept... is "over-rated" in terms of its "importance"... I don't think its presence here is indicative of trouble, much stress. I've written re, following up on Tom Frakes (now out of Aq. Systems) piece/ideas re "Nitrate Menace" (in their qtrly. infomercial SeaScope)... not to worry. Cheers, Bob Fenner> Goin' On A Hunger Strike - 08/11/2005 I have a 150 gallon marine tank.  My dwarf lion (D. zebra) has not eaten in a month (frozen krill).   <Disturbing....> Have tried many ghost shrimp, crab, shrimp, etc. to no avail.  My 8" snowflake eel seemed to be having trouble eating also and recently died.   <A major concern....> He did not seem thin and actually seemed swollen.   <An excellent clue....> My 5" porcupine puffer quit eating for 3 days but now is eating fine. frozen krill).  My powder blue tang and other herbivores seem to be unaffected.  No change in appetite or behavior.  The lion appears to try to suck in the food but cannot.  My water quality seems good.   <Seeming good is not enough info....  Be certain ammonia and nitrite are ZERO, pH 8.3, salinity 1.021-1.024....> But my nitrates are high.   <Also of concern.  How high?  Above 20ppm can be an issue.> I have done additional water changes (more than normal), I run a UV sterilizer, protein skimmer and do regular filter changes.   <Try to find the source of your nitrates....  I would be concerned that the tank may be overstocked if you cannot keep nitrate down with reasonable water changes.> No fish in the tank have bad fins, color or any abnormalities.  And there have been no recent illnesses or fish additions.  I would appreciate any suggestions. <My first guess is purely environmental issues.  Get more water changes done, pronto, if anything is mildly amiss there.  Try feeding foods soaked in garlic extract to stimulate an appetite.  If still unsuccessful, you might want to consider the possibility of internal parasites....  the swollen eel, after having not eaten, may be an indicator, here.  Are any of the fish excreting long, clear-ish strands of poo?  You might consider offering a food medicated with Metronidazole or Praziquantel, or treat these fish in a quarantine tank with either of those in the water.> Thanks. <Wishing you well,  -Sabrina> Nitrates/coral  10/19/05 Hi team, Can nitrates at about 20ppm cause coral to develop a fungus and die? Thanks     Mohamed <Mmm, generally not... though, depending on what the underlying cause of nitrate accumulation is/are, this stress can/does contribute to lowered vitality, resistance. Bob Fenner> Nitrate or Nitrate-Nitrogen?  (4/3/2004) Hi, I was wondering, what is the top line of NO3 level that is allowable in the fish only marine tank. <Not more than 20 ppm Nitrate Ion, lower if keeping sensitive species>  I have Fastest and Salifert Nitrate Test kits and the Fastest kit says that up to 20ppm NO3-N is ok for fish only tank.  <An uncommon way to test...measuring Nitrates as Nitrate-Nitrogen is usually misleading, as the vast majority of hobbyist test kits measure Nitrate Ion> So, that means about 80ppm of NO3 is ok. Am I right?  <Not at all.  As previously stated I would not allow N03 Ion to rise above 20 PPM or less if possible, depending on the species being kept>  My tanks' nitrate level is about 6ppm NO3-N (Fastest) and about 25ppm NO3 (Salifert) <closer to 27 ppm>. I see people who have NO3 level going up to 100ppm in your site.  <Definitely NOT recommend> I wanted to set a target Nitrate level and keep that going in my tank by setting water changes schedules and using chemical media like Seachem's Purigen.  <As low as possible, but realistically for a fish only tank without a DSB would be 10-20 ppm.  I just recently started using Purigen, we should share results> I have this MS Excel sheet that calculates and predict nitrate level in the future with given parameters like gallons of water changed and past nitrate levels in the tank.  <send us a copy :) > I know that 0ppm is best Nitrate level but I don't want to over do it and have the fish all stressed out.  <In a fish only tank it's best not to be obsessive over it, zero would be hard to attain with many of the messier fish and without a DSB> I learn lot of stuff about marine aquarium maintenance from your site. <As do I> Thanks, -hsk <No problems.  M. Maddox>

Nitrate production I have a saltwater tank that is 10 months old. Everything is fine except I am worried about the nitrate levels getting out of hand in the future. I use a Fluval 404, Tide Pool 2 wet dry filter with overflow box and Berlin protein skimmer. I did read before hand about the problems with wet/dry filters but really it was the best option for me at the time to use to start up the tank. I know that you have recommended to others with wet/dry filters to just remove a little bit of the biomedia at a time until it is all gone. The Tidepool has a wheel so all the media would have to go at once or all stay. Nitrates are at about 10ppm now and all other levels are within normal limits. I am just worried that the nitrates will climb. I have a 110 galloon tank and change about 20-30 galloons every week. Will I face a nitrate problem and how should I adjust the Tidepool and biomedia to prevent this problem. Thank you for your help. Abby <You don't mention what you keep in this aquarium. Sounds like fish only, so no worries! Just stay on top of the water changes. If it's a reef tank then you may need to address this soon. In either case you can't remove biocapacity (filter media) without replacing it with another or you will overload your tank. Removing biomedia usually involves adding a nitrate reducing media like Live rock and deep sand beds first. These need to be cycled and well established before removing anything from the wet/dry or the Biowheel. Hope this covers it! Craig>

Re: E. quadricolor Hello All, Thanks for the good advice in the past! <You are welcome.> I bought a green tipped bubble anemone yesterday and put him in my FOWLR tank (50 gallon). My nitrates tested around 20. Too high? <Closer to zero would be better.> What do I need to watch for in the animal to see if it is affecting him? <Once you see symptoms, it will be too late.> I plan to do water changes to get this level down. <This will help if your new water is free of nitrates (RO or DI water with a good salt mix).> Would a refugium setup be a good idea here to keep it very low in nitrates? <Yes, another part of the equation along with the water changes, other nutrient export processes, proper feeding, and all other aspects of good husbandry.> My lighting is 2 55-watt Custom Sea Life Smartlamps. The tank is only 16" deep and the tallest live rock is 10" from the bottom. Is the lighting adequate? <It does not sound like it. I would ballpark this as about half to three quarters of needed light.> I plan to feed him Formula One and Mysis a few times a week. Let me know if there is anything else I need to know. I have read through the website and some of the FAQ regarding this animal. Thanks again for your services. Michael <You are welcome. -Steven Pro>

Hardy Inverts Hi. My tank has a nitrate level of 25 ppm. Which invertebrates are rather nitrate tolerant? <Mushroom anemones would be ok.> I would like to add algae grazers and scavengers but have good growths of Caulerpa and Halimeda as well as coralline red so I would rather not have too much eaten. Which herbivores could now be added to control other algae but which would leave most of these introduced species alone? <Various algae eating snails would leave the macroalgae and coralline alone. -Steven Pro>

Nitrates HI bob, I have a 240 gal. FO tank with 100lbs liverock, under the tank wet dry system, plus a protein skimmer. My nitrate level is 25mg/L. This is with a Tetra test kit. I cant seem to get the nitrates any lower. All of the fish are doing well. Is 25mg/l of nitrates too high of a level?? Thanks <Good question... some nitrate is inherent in almost all systems... indicative of too crowded, overfed, under filtered/aerated/circulated conditions... Aquariums with Wet-Dry filters have much more nitrate as a consequence of over-driven nitrification... But 25 ppm is no problem for a fish only system... and the reality (or at least in my opinion and experience) the state of health of your fishes is not just more, but all-important, compared with any given test/s. I wouldn't worry, and don't believe 25ppm is a problem here. If you want to lower this, the use of live rock, a refugium/sump, macro-algae, a deeper sand bed, perhaps a plenum... even pulling out/discarding the plastic bio-media in the wet-dry would all accomplish this. Please read over our site re these ideas starting here: http://wetwebmedia.com/no3probfaqs.htm Be chatting my friend. Bob Fenner> Lee

Nitrates and Substrates Hi bob- <Anthony Calfo in your service while Mr. Fenner has hit the road with the traveling Bob Show> Your web-site has given me info overload....in a good way. <now try browsing the site with only actinic lights on in the room and Pink Floyd music playing in the background> For starters, I have a 55 gal salt tank. Assorted tangs, choc. chip star, green brittle, 2 peppermint shrimp,2 small urchins and a feather duster. Tank is about 5 years old. <just curiously...how many tangs and what kind in the 55gall?> The substrate is a crushed coral, average size is about that of a bb. I have a big double wheel emperor filter on the back, a Prizm protein skimmer, a magnum 350 canister that is full of bio-balls and covered with a floss filter and 1 powerhead. Lighting is 2 55w compact flour. daylights and 2 55w blues. The stronger lighting and protein skimmer are new additions in past few weeks. <excellent...you'll appreciate them ever more in time> I did a 15 gal water change with the nitrates between 25-50mg/l. I use a vacuum siphon and dig down into the coral .  <the phrase "dig down" into the gravel is a bit scary... if you aren't already doing it, gravel siphon the top inch of a three to five inch substrate and no more than that. Particulates shouldn't make it much deeper if you are not overfeeding or have enough detritivores, and you stand to do more harm than good by compromising the fauna> On recommendation from my LFS I rinsed out half of the bio-balls in tap water because they were very packed with muck.  <I'm glad you rinsed them (although I would have used aged water from the tank from a water change before discarding it). However...for future reference... they should not accumulate any such muck. Either the pre-filter isn't working properly, there is a design flaw or perhaps you got busy or forgetful on prefilter maintenance> I was not sure water was getting through them. Anyway, The day after the water change the nitrates were off the scale, 100+, and the fish were puffing quite rapidly. I changed another 5 gal the next day and it may have brought nitrates down a bit. But the poor fish look like they are suffocating. I use tap water that is conditioned with a chlorine/chloramine neutralizer. It checked ok when tested for nitrates. I have had this tank for years with no major problems and my routine has not really changed.  <if the gravel siphon was aggressive, you may have liberated noxious elements. The fact that your bio-balls accumulated any matter at all on them suggests that you a problem with nutrient export processes (which are on the mend in part with the skimmer<smile>> The bio-ball rinse after 4 years was a first though. <not the immediate problem... couldn't produce nitrate that fast (takes days to weeks)... it was a necessary evil> And the recent addition of skimmer and new stronger lights. When I was siphoning the bottom this time I moved some of the larger rocks and some large amounts of dark green or brown matter came out. I have a feeling that it was good stuff. <not sure I follow you thinking...sounds like accumulated detritus/sediment (bad stuff most often)> My thinking (after long conversations and lots of time on your web site) is that the increased flow in the bio-balls is producing more nitrates and that I destroyed some (or a lot) of the good bacteria in the substrate that convert nitrates.  <I disagree on the first count if the time frame is hours to a couple of days, but I agree on the second count> But the LFS tells me that nitrates are not that harmful <Wow...a very broad statement ... more false than true. Small amounts of nitrate harmless or necessary for marine life, large amounts fatal... beginning with tangs, angels and butterflies> and something else must be causing the increased respiration. I feel that I am a bit out of my league on this one. HELP!!!! <it simply sounds to me like the misapplication of course substrate which easily traps detritus (as you have noticed) has finally caught up with you... you are making good changes to help the water quality> They also suggested that I push the coarse crushed coral towards the back and put a layer of finer coral on top of that and then top it off with a thin layer of sand. And then never vacuum the bottom again. Is that a good idea? <quite frankly the idea horrifies me. I am glad you are seeking second opinions. Crushed coral by virtue of its size is inherently going to trap detritus. The rule of thumb for many aquarists with a static bed of substrate (no flow trough) is 1/2 inch or less OR five inches or more. And with a deep substrate you'll need finer sand and/or adequate detritivores to keep it serviced properly. The advice of your LFS will only trap nutrients in this case> What are your thoughts? This is a new problem for me and I want to make sure I can correct it as soon as possible. <if it isn't now or going to be a hardcore reef tank, you do not need or want a deep substrate. You might consider siphoning most of the gravel out and only leaving a 1/2 inch behind. Any more will trap sediment too easily, but shallow media can be cleansed with good water movement which keeps sediments in suspension for nutrient export (skimmer, etc.) The poor fish are really working the gills I hope I provided enough pertinent info. I am sorry this is so long winded but I thought it would make it easier for you to help me. Thank you in advance Dennis <keep reading and asking questions, bud. Best of luck, Anthony>

Snowflake Moray, Nitrates, Clown Trigger Hi Bob, I have a 28" Snowflake Moray in a 180 gallon tank. I have had him for six years, during which time he has grown from 16". His appetite is great, eagerly eating silversides and supermarket-bought squid, scallops and shrimp. He is also pretty active for a moray, swimming about in the full light of the tank during the day. He gets along well with his tankmates, which consist of an 18" Jewel Moray, 4" Bursa Trigger, and 7" Clown Trigger. About four weeks ago, I noticed a white spot on the outside of his eyeball. I assumed it was the result of a scratch from the usual tussle at feeding time, or perhaps from accidentally scraping up against a rock. However, the spot has not gone away. It is covering 25% of his eye, and is the color of "whiteout" you use on typewriter paper (not really grey or cloudy). The shape is irregular. His behavior is still very good. He never scratches and isn't breathing heavily, nor has his appetite diminished. But, I'm puzzled as to how to rid him of this. The only step I have taken is to lower the SG to 1.017, hoping to discourage/ kill possible parasites. I'd rather not medicate if it is not necessary, and I don't have a quarantine tank large enough to house this bruiser should I decide to pull him out & medicate. Suggestions/ ideas on what this is? <Probably a bacterial infection from some sort of physical damage. Try using one tablespoon of Epson salt per 5 gallons of water. It will help to remove fluid from behind the eye and allow the eel's immune system to rid itself of the infection.> Also, considering the hardy yet heavy feeders I am keeping (with the probable addition of a fifth fish, likely a grouper or large angel), <The grouper would be a better choice.> what should my nitrate ceiling be? I'm consistently struggling to get it to 40ppm. Is that unrealistic? Is 60-100ppm acceptable long-term with these fish? <I do not think anything over 40 to be acceptable. Try increasing the frequency and/or amounts of your water changes, aggressive protein skimming (with these guys you should have a full collection cup of skimmate the color of hot tea to coffee daily, and possibly the use of purified water.> Also, how large and aggressive do you think the clown trigger will get in this tank? <Fairly large and fairly aggressive. I am frankly surprised you have had not trouble with him and the other trigger, yet.> He has a moderately bad trigger "attitude", ok with his present company, but with some temper tantrums (biting the glass when unfed, tossing shells around, etc.), and has killed a 7" Harlequin Tusk added to the tank. Thank you for your advice! You are a great resource! Steve <Thank you for the compliment. I will be sure to pass it along. -Steven Pro>

Nitrates Harmful I have just read several posts on your website regarding nitrates and thought I would throw in two cents from a couple of sources. <Okay, thanks> First, I called the maker of Novaqua and Amquel regarding the use of their products. Dr. Rofen (sp?) <correct> said that nitrates do not harm any aquatic life. Nitrates USUALLY are accompanied in the water by other organic compounds that are harmful to aquatic life. The scientific community do not have tests for these "other organic compounds". Therefore, we test for nitrates and assume that other harmful organic compounds are also present. <This is an approximately correct statement... Nitrates by themselves are rarely harmful to captive aquatic life> He did say that it is possible for the water to test positive or high in nitrates and not have high concentrations of the other harmful organic compounds. <Yes> I have read a similar comment attributed to R. Shimek (sp?)<Shimek> - nitrates are not harmful to aquatic life. <Again... in a manner of speaking, yes> Could this explain why my 65 gal saltwater tank regularly measures 80ppm in nitrates and the tank looks clear and free of algae? <Could be, but there are several other possible "reasons/explanations" that would account for this> It has been set up for years. No matter how many water changes I do, the nitrate level never comes down. Maybe, I do not have these other organic compounds. Maybe I'm lucky? <Could be either, both or neither> Maybe something in the new saltwater encourages nitrate growth? (The tapwater tests 0 for nitrates). <I do agree, concur with your conjecture re "something in new seawater" does encourage the accumulation of the end products of nitrification... on the one hand more "complete" sources of inorganic molecules... on the other a more noxious mix of chemicals that selectively poison/favor some groups of competing and bacteria-predatory organisms...> Just some info that may be helpful. <More outwardly leading. Bob Fenner>

Fix the env. first... Mr. Fenner,  thanks for the response, I do have another question if you do not mind. I am very concerned with the 160, I have huge angels, and all seem to be slowly getting worse (scraping on rocks, jerky movement). I have been treating the tank with light doses of Maracyn, but I think the high trates are the source of stress (i.e. plastic bio-balls, fluidized bed, and feeding them VHP food). After performing a 30 gal water change, the trates are right at 80ppm, my ultimate question is this, SHOULD I COPPER THE TANK? Or should I try Maracyn2 first? It is FO tank, with some live rock (not worried about that), but I am concerned I might kill off the bacteria bed, and ultimately kill the fish with high trites as the tank recycles. I am afraid to try fresh water dips, would they help? thanks >> No to coppering the tank, using any more/other antibiotics... look to the causes... you know what they are... and solve the source of the high nitrates themselves... See our previous interchange below... Do you know what I'm getting at? Work at reducing your nitrates... remove the plastic media, put in a denitrating bed, Siporax beads, Macro-algae... more live rock... Bob Fenner   Nitrates Bob, I just started my saltwater aquarium three weeks ago. I introduced 45 lbs. of live rock and 2 lbs. of live sand 2 weeks ago. My ammonia level is a little high  <How high? More than 1.0 ppm?> and the nitrate level is real high. <Again, imagine you're a pet-fish type of guy, wishing to help folks like yourself over the Net... receiving this sort of information... How much is "real high"? tens of ppm?>  I was told I needed to do a 20% water change and this would help. Guess what? It is still the same.  <This would have been my guess...> By the way I have 5 snails in the tank and they are fine. What can I do to correct this problem  <What problem? Some ammonia? At three weeks this should be... going... and I would only "do" something like a water change... if "it" was over 1.0 ppm or much of whatever life (on/in the rock, sand) was obviously dying... otherwise, such changes only forestall complete cycling (i.e. marked by the absences of ammonia)... If you're only seeing some single digit, or even a few tens of ppm of nitrates, don't worry... We can talk about this topic on and on... but this is not of/by itself dangerous, problematical... in point of fact, this is a desirable, expected result of new set-ups of your kind...> where I can introduce fish to my aquarium? <When the ammonia is gone...> Richard Pierce "New hobbyist" >> <Please try to be patient... "things" are progressing in your system... the die off of some of the life that is producing the ammonia will cease soon... Do check over what reference materials you have, and try to understand that (here's something easy to state that for once everyone CAN agree on), there are MANY, disparate opinions on how to go about most all procedures in the marine aquarium hobby... You will need to become an informed hobbyist, and make your own decisions (as in "nothing is decided till it's done) re alternative opinions (mine inclusive). Bob "too philosophical this AM" Fenner>

NITRATE hi bob, how are you doing? <Fine> I have emailed you previously about a sea anemone of mine. I really am grateful for your advice. I have a few questions about steps I need to take. in my tank right now I have 3 percula clowns, 1 maroon clown, 1 high fin cardinal, 2 red shrimp, 1 starfish, 1 purple pin cushion, 1 snail, 10 small hermit crabs, 1 medium hermit crab, and 15 pounds of live rock. I did a small water change this weekend. the nitrate rose from 20 ppm to a raging 60 ppm. <Yikes> the make up water test negative for nitrate. ammonia and nitrite are at 0. my angelfish died two days later. I have only lost three animals in five months. the question that really intrigues me is, the fish and anemone lived for three months before dying? do you think this is because of the nitrate explosion?  <Yes, or related more definitively to the cause/s of the nitrates...> do you have any ideas on what made it rise so dramatically? <Possibly a massive die-off on nitrifiers... or an infusion of proteinaceous material... food, some off-set by your livestock... An overactive imbalance between aerobic/anaerobic microbial life... for instance, wet-dry plastic media, fluidized bed filter, clogged particulate type... mis-supplementation with sugar-based additives...> currently I add Phytoplex for the live rock and essential elements to make up for the skimmer and carbon filtration. do I need to start adding calcium or any other water additives to help the live rock? <Who knows? You may not need to add anything... do you test for biomineral, alkalinity concentration?> if I do, how should I start? what speed should I start at? what does it mean when the product says for fish, invertebrate and reef tanks only? <Take ten (or more) giant breaths... and get ready for a bit of "brain sweat"... you need to step back a bit... from the situation and your current understandings... Do read over the set-up, maintenance sections posted on the site: www.WetWebMedia.com... esp. those on pH, Alkalinity, Calcium... in part. the FAQs areas... And avail yourself of a read through Baensch Marine Atlas v.1 and v.1 of The Modern Coral Reef Aquarium... no sense proceeding here not having a thorough grounding in what you're doing...> I only run two 18" 50/50 at this time. I do not plan on adding anything else until I get a new lighting system. I plan to go full reef in the future. I appreciate any advice you can give to me. Thank you for your time. James <Read, reflect, understand James. Bob Fenner>

Re: tank problems/ Induced Nitrates Hi Robert, I wanted to give you an update on my tank problems. I've been doing 50% water changes daily. I borrowed my brother-in-laws wet dry from his 55 gal. tank, set that up, have the Magnum canister filter going with carbon and a Poly filter in it. I'm using the "New tank set up" dosage of Cycle. I've been taking a turkey baster and squirting the live rock a couple of times a day loosening any dead debris or sucking up any obvious areas that are disintegrating. I'm cleaning all filters twice a day. As of last night the Ammonia, Nitrites and Nitrates were within tolerable levels for the corals and inverts. <Ahh, does sound like you've been industrious, likely have "saved the day"... congratulations.> I'm going to continue doing 20% water changes according to the levels and how they're maintaining and using the Cycle. I've also added De-Nitrate in my wet dry to try and keep the Nitrates down as they convert. Does it sound like I'm on track for a full recovery? At this point the corals, especially the elegance is looking much better. Any other suggestions that would help? Am I doing too much? <Not too much, and yes... stay the course you're on... intelligently, and all will be fine. Bob Fenner>

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