My soap fish won't eat 2 weeks now!!  6/3/07
Hi there! I have a soap fish (5.5 in) that is about 1.5 years now, and he hasn't eaten anything in two weeks! I cannot figure out why. We usually feed him silver sides since that's all he every has any interest in eating.
<Trouble... nutritionally incomplete by itself>
In the tank with him is a fox face( 4in), Niger trigger( 4in), porcupine puffer( 7 in)
<These last two tankmates might be an influence here as well>
and a snowflake eel( 12+in). The tank is 75 gallon (long).
All of the other fish are great, they never refuse any food! We do 1/3 water changes every month and have a wet dry filter system
<What is your nitrate reading?>
along with a protein skimmer. The tank has live rock as well. Although I did add a lava stone about four months ago( not sure but it is a red stone, long, with two holes in it ) I read up on it before adding it to the tank and there was no sign of it being hazardous to the salt water tank. Once every two weeks I add 2 tablespoons of Fiji Gold Coral and live rock supplement to the water.
Now in the past we have had trouble here and there getting him interested in food, but the longest he went w/out eating was ~5 days... This past week and a half I have tried, pellets, shrimp, scallops, silver sides, and snapper bits. He will not show any interest in any of these. Do you have any suggestions as to what to feed him?
<Perhaps some live ghost shrimp... If you have other circumstances (like a sump, refugium...) I would move this fish as well>
Is this normal behavior? How long do they usually live?
<No and for several years>
The past couple of days he has been swiming slower and seems to be sluggish (probably from lack of food) but there are no other outward signs of distress.
I would appreciate any of your thoughts!
Thank you,
-January
<Reads like either metabolic accumulation, aggressive behavior, and/or nutrient deficiency is at play here... Bob Fenner>

Sixline GROUPER - Needs a good home !!!   10/30/06
Hi crew, I am taking my fish only system apart and am almost not able to do it just because of how much I like my grouper. This goes out to Bob F and crew only or other expert aquarist alike. I will give him away to the right home. Which to me means a large tank 150 gallons plus and someone who wants a grouper that likes to get petted not kidding). He is approx 7". Let me know, have a great day/night crew.  -daN
<don't know if anyone is interested in this Soapfish. it would probably be better to post in a forum somewhere ...then you can arrange local pickup, etc. good luck, IanB>
He is also the most non aggressive fish, except when you feed him.

Copper, basses/soapfish  - 05/29/06
Hi again, I have another quick question for you. Can you treat the sixline grouper with copper safe?
<Yes>
Have a feeling you can't. I already dosed my 60 gallon tank with 75ml as per instructions, but I do not think I did the
right thing as the sixline is getting some white on him "draping". Should I get this stuff out of the tank ASAP? It has only been in the tank for two days. I have some poly filter I could put in. Thanks Again
<Please see WWM re whatever you're trying to actually treat here, copper use... Bob Fenner>

Soapfish Copper Treatment...Panic - 05/30/06
Hi, I need to know if you can treat the Soapfishes with Copper Safe.
<<As far as I am aware, yes...though I would proceed with caution/observe the fish closely for adverse reactions/distress>>
I have a clown grouper and sixline that are in a tank I have treated with Copper Safe and think I may have done the wrong thing.
<<If this is the display tank then yes, you have damaged your biological filter if nothing else>>
They just ate a good meal - so maybe I am wrong, but with the threads on your site make me think otherwise.
<<The result of a knee-jerk reaction.  You don't state why you thought you needed to medicate the fish...but is obvious you didn't research beforehand>>
Should I Poly-Filter out the copper?  Not trying to rush you, I
know it is a holiday and all - but my groupers are really cool and I don't wanna lose them.
<<Understood...Yes, I would do a 30% water change and add carbon/Poly-Filter to your filter flow path...and move the fish to a hospital/quarantine tank if they truly need medicating>>
I really appreciate your info.
Thanks - Dan
<<Regards, EricR>>
Also, my water is in good shape - barely any nitrate, but I don't think you can get it to zero while feeding groupers.
<<Indeed...a nitrate reading below 15ppm is generally considered "acceptable" on most FO/FOWLR systems.  Keep a close eye on this and perform water changes as needed as you will likely see a rise in nitrates until your bio filter recovers.  EricR>>

Soapfish Copper Treatment...Panic II - 05/30/06
Thanks for the reply, I woke up this morning and everyone looks better.
<<Ahh, good>>
I added the CopperSafe on Friday and it's been in a little over two days.  I initially treated the fish this way because they have Ick that I think was brought in by two damsels.  I did the old pour the water in the bucket and dump the fish in method.
<<I see...>>
I know, big mistake.  Shows you healthy looking fish are not always what they seem.
<<Indeed>>
Anyway... I put the CopperSafe directly in the tank because I am starting a new system in a couple of weeks and figured it doesn't really matter.
<<...?>>
So I had about 30lbs. of live rock and 20lbs. of live sand in the tank, is it all doomed or will it recover?
<<Will likely be fine>>
I also did not take the carbon out of my filtration when I added the CopperSafe, so in affect...did I weaken the treatment?
<<Mmm, yes>>
The carbon was only a couple of days old.  Don't mean to go on, it's just  that I can't really get good answers anywhere else.
<<I hope I'm being helpful>>
So I am going to take your advice and do a 30% water change and add a new Poly-Filter.
<<Excellent...the Poly-Filter will/should show some blue coloration if there is any remaining copper in the system>>
Thanks -Dan
<<Regards, EricR>>

Soapfish Copper Treatment...Panic III - 06/01/06
Hey Eric thanks again...
<<You're welcome>>
You are definitely being helpful; while on that subject... let me pick your brain some more.
<<Okay>>
The reason I said it didn't matter about treating the whole display tank was actually thought out.  1 - I am planning on getting the copper out via water change and Poly-Filter, and 2 - I just purchased a 135 gallon (to make fish only) tank with wet/dry, sump deal.
<<cool!>>
I decided now though that I would like to take my 25 gallon reef and transfer it to the 60 gallon.  I am wondering if the live rock that was treated in the 60 gallon will be ok left in as I make it into a reef set up.
<<There's a good chance the rock is fine...but this is a great opportunity to use new rock for its fresh mineral content/bio diversity>>
I have a really awesome 25 gallon reef tank and things are growing too big for the tank.  I want to transfer the whole tank, but wonder even after water changes and Poly-Filter if that is enough or will my reef stuff be in danger?
<<Mmm, may not me worth the risk for you then...>>
I am thinking the CopperSafe will be gone or mostly gone and it should be fine? I think.
<<Considering the single dose was quickly diluted/removed by the presence of carbon in your system there's good chance all will be fine...but the final decision is up to you mate>>
Thanks again Eric - Dan
<<Cheers, EricR>>

Soapfish poisoned tank   1/31/06
I've had a yellow-lined grouper (Soapfish) for 7 years with no problems.   Several weeks ago I had to do a rather large water change (60%)
<... too much>
and introduced some new smaller fish.
<Oh oh...>
  Sadly, it seems I've had to basically start over with balancing the tank.  The grouper stopped eating, my new Huma trigger and yellow
tangs died two weeks later, even after treating with copper (for parasites) and later an antibiotic for my 10-year old maroon clown who appeared to be
suffering.  A few days ago, the Soapfish/grouper developed some sores which secreted puss.  I briefly took him out today and treated him with wound control (BIG
MISTAKE) and put him back in.  Immediately, he emitted a white cloud of toxins (grammistin?)
<Yes, likely>
that I was unaware could happen until my online research tonight.  Two damsels died, clown is barely hanging in, and the grouper is weak.  
Treated the tank with Prime and added a poly filter...is there anything else I can do to save the fish and tank (it's been healthy for so many years)??
<Keep changing water... add good quality activated carbon in the filter flow path...>
I cannot find any information on treatment, and I'm worried about doing another water change so quickly.  Any advice would be appreciated.
<I would if at all possible, resist changing more than about a quarter of volume in any system at one time... and that with pre-mixed/stored synthetic (if not using natural). Sorry to hear/read of your travails. Your note has likely saved many people similar anguish re keeping of Grammistids. Bob Fenner>

Re: Soapfish poisoned tank   1/31/06
Thank you for your response, Bob.  Sadly, the grouper died last night; however, the others seem to be doing okay (we think the Prime & PolyFilter helped) and did a 25% water change this morning and pulled the filter (should I add it back in even though I'm told it pulls the "good stuff" out too?)  
<Sorry for the delayed response... was out giving a pitch over the weekend, and we are evidently being crushed with queries>
The reason for the large initial water change was a tank location move and complete cleaning.
<Ah... better to return, replace much of the previous water in these cases/scenarios>
Looking back, the new fish probably introduced bacterial and parasites (it has been at least 3 years since any new fish have been introduced to the tank) -- even though I treated for both of these, the combination probably just stressed the old guy out too much.  Unfortunately, I was completely unaware of his toxicity.  Thanks again.
<A good way of putting all this. Thank you for the follow-up. Bob Fenner>

S.O.S. Pogonoperca punctata 8/23/05
Hello Bob,
<Hi there>
I'm João Prata from Portugal. I hope you are fine.
Some time ago, (maybe a couple of years) I found this site. I was having a problem with two angel fishes. One Apolemichthys trimaculatus and one
P. annularis. After some days, treating them like you suggested (formalin baths) they recovered completely :)))
<Ah, congratulations on your success>
Well time past by and, between corals and fishes, here we're with Centropyge, Ltd. :)) I hope that soon Centropyge can, some how, retribute your availability.
<I look forward to this>
I'm also writing to you, because I'm quite worried with one Pogonoperca punctata. She came to Centropyge about two moths ago, and, when I was
thinking in finish the quarantine, I noticed a little white area at about 2 or 3 cm behind the pectoral fin.( the fish has about 10 or 12 cm length)
<Mmm, this is a tough, hardy species, that usually ships well... likely this mark is resultant from a physical injury... getting whacked with a net, being dropped on the floor, running into a part of a holding tank...>
This area is like a white circle with 2 or 3 mm diameter. I tried to take a little to see it in the microscope but it is some kind of mucus
and it is very difficult to take out. The rest of the fish is really fantastic. She was eating live food and now she's already accepting frozen shrimp, etc.
I tried with iodine in local, nothing...  Some days after with sulfathiazole in water (0.5g / 100l), nothing.....  some days after Metronidazole in
water, permanent bath, (25mg/l), does not make any difference... I was thinking in neomycin but it really don't seem bacterial infection....
<I don't think this is actually a disease per se... and it will likely heal over, color-up with time (weeks to months) going by>
3 or 4 days ago, I saw a little eruption on the skin, just 1 cm away from the white mucus, and today, that eruption has gone but in its place, there
is now another white area...about half  the first but, with the same kind of mucus . Should I try Metronidazole in food 1% (250mg/100g )?
<Yes, this is worth a try... as is Praziquantel. Just one dose each for both>
I hope you can help me like the other time
Best regards,
João Prata
<Life to you my friend. Bob Fenner>

Soapfish question
My Soapfish is the lone member of my 135 gallon aquarium. He has not eaten for more than 1.5 weeks, which is unusual. 
<How long have you had him?> 
Also, when I am not looking, he will lie on his side and breathe feebly. Sometimes he swallows food then spits it out about 1/2 an hour later! 
<Eek that doesn't sound good.>
This may be due to the following reasons: 1) He was caught by cyanide. 
<Once again? How long have you had him? Do you know he was caught by cyanide? Do you know the area he came from?>
2) There is contamination in the aquarium of excess aluminum sulphate, magnesium sulphate and/or 2-Chloro-4.5bis(ethylamino)-1,3,5-triazine. 
<Okay this one puzzles me? Did you test for this? Do you know there is contamination and if there is then immediately the first thing to do is a large water change to get this stuff OUT of the aquarium.>
3) Unknown cause or liver damage. 
<Liver damage? Are you seeing any kinds of marks or signs on your fish whatsoever?>
Water parameters: Salinity: 1.025
pH: 8.2
Temp: 25 degrees Celsius
Nitrate and nitrite: negligible (Water is treated with water purifying powder and nitrifying bacteria.) <How long has the tank been up? What is the water purifying powder? What exactly does it do? Have you had your water tested at all?>
Someone please diagnose the problem and help me treat him ASAP!!! 
<Hopefully you can help me by answering some of these questions and we can get him on the road to recovery. Good luck, MacL>

Soapfish question follow-up
I have had the fish for 6 months and he was caught from Sri Lanka the shopkeeper also said that he was not caught by cyanide, but I may not be able to trust him now.
<As a general rule if he is caught with cyanide it usually causes problems within a couple of weeks in my experience. I would think that after six months we are dealing with something else entirely different.> 
Should it be best if I transferred the fish to a new tank, to eliminate the supposed causes mentioned while the fish takes time to heal itself (if it will)? 
<If you are asking about a quarantine then let me ask you this? If you think the fish is poisoned HOW do you think the poisoning occurred? Cyanide from six months ago? Do you think he is releasing poison?> 
How I think that he has liver damage is because 2-Chloro-4.5bis(ethylamino)-1,3,5-triazine which is positively present as an algae killer is now found to potentially cause liver problems. 
<Did you dose the tank with some type of algae killer? If so get the fish out of the tank immediately and get the water out of the tank. At the very least do water changes to dilute the pollutions.> 
The poor fish may be releasing toxins around the main tank at the moment, as it is rather cloudy all of a sudden. 
<Did you check your water parameters? Nitrites, Nitrates? It sounds more to me like you are having some type of tank issue.> 
As a note, there was no infection present anytime except now that resembles what has happened. 
<I understand.> 
The water purifying powder is possibly made of aluminum sulphate which removes non-filterable matter (Not sure what the ingredient actually is as it is not stated).
<Water purifying powder shouldn't be a problem as far as my research tells me. Its just to clean the water for human and animal use. Maybe you need to do some water changes and get his water as clean as possible and then offer him food? See if he is just having some problems with water quality and if improving it helps him? Please let me know if I can help you in anyway, MacL>

Soapfish question follow-up - II
Now that my Soapfish is in a new tank, how should I go about cleaning up the tank? 
<If you use Clorox you can take away the chlorine from it with basic chlorine remover.> 
Carbon was suggested, but do you think I should just throw all the water away (after all it is contaminated). 
<If you believe it is contaminated then toss it all.> 
What about the gravel, bioballs, filter matting/pads etc? 
<I personally would toss it all if you believe it is contaminated because you might never know if you got it all or not. Good luck, MacL>

Soapfish sick, come quick... Another Answer?
Gosh, it really seems that my aquarium hobby is falling apart. Just a few days ago, I had a virus and bacteria attack (I am still down with a fever).<I have not been completely healthy either. The weather has been crazy.> 
I am afraid that the pathogens in me might have infected my Soapfish.
<I don't think that it is possible for a fish to get infected with a virus that has infected you.> 
A few days after giving him food, which I obviously had to handle, I noticed a day later that he had spat it out. Now he is currently lying on his side (while he thinks I am not watching) and will suddenly straighten up when he sees me. Also, his movement is awkward, as it comes and goes in sudden bursts. Occasionally he will make unexplained sharp turns for nothing. What should I do? Should I treat him with this brand of medication called ocean free? They have a product called general aid special which is used to cure unexplained problems in fishes. However I suspect the medication might contain malachite green or some copper compounds which may be harmful to Soapfishes. Someone enlighten me. 
<<Hello, MikeB here. I would say that the first thing to do is to test your water. If the ammonia or PH are out of whack it will cause the behaviour found in your soap fish. Second, Check for spots. Scratching is a sign for flukes or external parasites. I am not familiar with the medication that you mentioned but if it is broad spectrum anti-parasite medication that would work but test your water first. Always treat your fish in a quarantine tank. Good Luck. MikeB> >
It seems that the water quality is fine. Also, no symptoms of the sort you mentioned! How?
<I am sorry, but I need more information. When you say that the water quality is fine can you please tell me the parameters? I would like exact numbers. Also, darting is another form of scratching. I did not make this distinction when I was replying to your email. Fish will generally dart around in the water for two reasons (there can be other ones but these are the 2 most common) being chased by another fish, or trying to remove something on their body. Remember, they don't have hands to scratch themselves with. Also, I don't know what kind of medicine you are taking. Unless you are taking a topical skin medication it should NOT have an effect on your fish. I know of a great medication to fix the problem if it is flukes but either way you need to remove the fish from the tank and put it in a quarantine. It will cover the situation if something is picking on it and it will cover the water quality issue. Then you can treat it with either a parasite medication or bacterial medication. There is also the possibility that the fish has contracted an internal parasite and that would explain why the fish doesn't want to eat. Here are the medications I recommend...For flukes=Prazi Pro; For Bacterial= Quinsulfex; For Flukes= treat water and food with Metronidazole (Hex-a-mit). Good Luck. MikeB> 

A new  8 - 10 inch Soapfish - white line grouper - not eating
I just recently acquired an 8 - 10 inch white lined grouper, or so called
Soapfish.
<Grammistes sexlineatus? This is a BIG specimen if so>
He was originally in a show tank at a furniture store along with
other huge groupers and a starry puffer.  Anyways, he was sent to the local
aquarium shop for sale.  I bought him for 60 dollars - what a steal!
Anyway, I have a 125 gallon tank and he is swimming around with no problem.
I have had him since the afternoon of Friday 11/26.  I feed my smaller fish
everyday.  The first day, he didn't even look at the krill.  Second day, he
swam by the krill that the other triggers and groupers were eating.  
<Triggers and groupers in a 125? Might well just be intimidated by the new tank, tankmates... Did you ask the shop if they know what the original owners were feeding this fish? I would>
Tonight, he swam right up to the krill, looked at it, then swam away.  I
tried feeding squid - got the same result.  My last resort is trying live
fish.
The aquarium shop told me he ate krill the entire time he was there, for
about the last month, in a tiny 40 gallon tank with two other groupers.
Any suggestions how to get him to eat?  If he doesn't eat live fish, then
what?
<Any way to partition the tank to just have the new fish by itself for a few days, weeks? Or do you have another system to move it to? Soapfishes are decidedly NOT in the same league as your other fish groups when it comes to aggressive feeding... Bob Fenner>