FAQs on Butterflyfish
FAQs on Butterflyfish Disease:
Butterflyfish Disease 1,
Butterflyfish Disease 2,
Angels and Butterflyfishes &Crypt,
FAQs on Butterflyfish Disease by Category:
Butterflyfish Foods/Feeding/Nutrition, Butterflyfish Compatibility,
Erratic behavior; bloody marks, raised scales,
cloudiness of the eyes... Trouble.
Check and correct your water quality, WATCH your other
Butterflyfishes for Marine
Diversity, Selection & Care
New eBook on Amazon: Available
New Print Book on Create Space: Available
by Robert (Bob) Fenner
Ailing Pearlscale Butterflyfish 7/18/17
Thank you in advance for "listening" to my sick fish problem.
<What we're here for!>
Back in May (`24th) I picked up a group of Butterflyfish for my FOWLR tank (2
Pakistani, a Longnose, a Saddleback and a Pearlscale).
<Ohhhh, all faves of mine>
I have been using a three 50gal tank QT system with hyposalinity (1.01 SG) (I
have since read your recommendation of skipping the QT and just doing a FW dip).
They stayed at that level for 3 weeks. Everyone did well except the Pearlscale -
he would not eat. Since the QT tanks were all one system I took 3-4 days to
raise the salinity to 1.021 which is where my display tank is at and moved
everyone but the Pearlscale into the display tank. I was tempted to move him to
but then I noticed he had a patch of darker scales on his side (pic
1). After a few days I noticed there were a few dark dots near the base
of his tale - I thought - black spot disease?
<Mmm; no; not this. Likely simple trauma; damage from collection, handling,
I didn't see how that could have
survived the hyposalinity but nonetheless I tried a treatment of PraziPro.
After 5 days I remembered I had some Chloroquine Phosphate in the house.
So I did a 20% water change and treated him with that. I spoke to the
manufacturer and they suggested giving 2 treatments 3 days apart. If that had no
effect to try erythromycin. There was no change - in fact the dark
area on his side was getting larger. I added carbon and a 20% water change.
Then I went to the LFS and he didn't have erythromycin so he have me two
treatments worth of CLOUT tablets to try. I tried two treatments.
<Mmm; I wish you would have written sooner. None of these treatments is
of use; will help. I'd move this fish into the main/display and not worry re
biological disease here>
No improvement (Pic 2). By the way it had now been 6 weeks and I still haven't
seen him eat. I added carbon again and did another 20% water change and figured
I would let him live out the few days he had left in peace. A few days went by
and I found some OLD (probably ineffective) erythromycin (it still has a 'Mail
Order Petshop' label -so real old). I figured the worst it could do is hasten
the death of a lost fish so I treated him with that.
Still no change. I put carbon back in. Now I am out of options (I probably
poisoned him with too many drugs). Unless you have any other suggestions I will
just let things lie. But from the pics, do you have any idea what this might be?
I would appreciate any insight you can give.
<Move this fish. Bob Fenner>
Small brown lesion on new butterfly
Hi WWM Crew, As always, thanks for your great service to the community!
I just received three lemon butterfly fish for my 200 gallon Hawaiian
<A fave species>
They are in the quarantine tank and all eating very well. On the third day,
I noticed on one fish a small, brown lesion at the attachment of the left
anal fin. Today is day ten, and it seems to be slowly growing. The fish is
somewhat more timid than the other two, but is eating well, and swimming
about the tank with the other two.
When the fish arrived I performed a fifteen minute freshwater/Methylene blue
dip. At first, I thought the lesion might be a flat worm. Since the fish was
swimming about so quickly, I could not get a good view of the sight for long
enough to evaluate. I therefore started treating with Prazipro this morning,
but now I am not so sure it actually is a flatworm.
I finally was able to get a photograph. It is not as clear as I would like,
but I have attached it. I have searched your site and others, but have not
been able to identify the lesion with any degree of certainty.
Are you able to tell what this might be, and recommend an appropriate
<Well; this appears to be a sore... resultant from collection likely... got
whacked by a hand-net or struggled against the barrier net or such>
As background, the QT is currently running at 1.024 spg, with an on-the-back
filter, and an air stone for increased oxygen, as well as a skimmer, with
the collection cup removed while I am treating with the Prazipro.
<I'd not continue the Prazi... of no help here and likely debilitating to an
Thanks for any help you can provide.
<Good conditions and time going by will tell here. Bob Fenner>
Re: Quarantine question
I have a Threadfin Butterflyfish that looks like it is hemorrhaging and some
of the scales seem to be separating.
<Mmm, I see this>
Attached is a picture. It is especially evident near the dorsal fin and down
the side of the fish. Any idea what this might be?
<Yes; this fish is classically "breaking down"... can't tell exactly from
what from the pic (need more information re the recent past... system,
handling... AND sampling and microscopic exam to be sure re ext. parasitic
involvement. HAVE seen Uronema, Cryptocaryon... Mycobacteria almost
always.... w/ such fishes. I would tell you that w/o immediate action (I'd
lower spg drastically; like to 1.010) this fish will soon perish. I WOULD
remove it, or all other fishes from the same system. There are blitzkrieg
type treatments... that attempt to treat all likely pathogens... A poor
avenue to take.... Do you have time to study, NOW? Bob Fenner>
Re: Quarantine question. Auriga BF
Hi Mr. Fenner,
Thank you for the input and analysis. Unfortunately, the fish perished
yesterday. All of the other fish appear to be healthy - eating very
well, behaving normally.
<Ahh; yes to the early demise of the BF. As prev. stated, DO KEEP AN EYE on your
other fish livestock. It may well be that they will be similarly stricken....
and COULD perish in likely soon order>
As you can see from the email string, I have had unbelievable challenges trying
to get the last two fish in my main tank. I was trying to get a Yellow
Long-nosed Butterfly fish and the Threadfin. Per your advise, we had been
bypassing the QT and doing a freshwater dip and placing them in the main tank. I
have lost two sets of each of these fish with this Threadfin being the last -
having survived for 41 days. I purposely chose these two fish because everything
I read said they are the easiest Butterfly fish to keep. I am now ready to throw
in the towel on trying to add these two fish to my aquarium.
<I'd look to other families of fishes>
I currently have the following in the 220 gallon tank: 3 orange Ocellaris
Clownfish, 2 Black Ocellaris Clownfish, Flame Hawkfish, Tailspot Wrasse, Yellow
Tang, Hepatus Tang, Blond Naso Tang, and a Coral Beauty. I would like to add two
more fish. Do you think this size tank will accommodate two more?
<Yes I do>
All of the fish I have are small except the Blond Naso Tang which is about 7".
If you think I have room, I was thinking about adding a Blue Throat Triggerfish
and a Royal Gramma. What are your thoughts?
<These are good choices. >
Thank you as always.
<And you; Bob Fenner>
Re: Quarantine question 9/16/16
<Certainly welcome. BobF>
Sick Spotfin Butterflyfish 06/18/11
I am hoping you can help me nurse my Spotfin Butterfly back to
health. I caught this fish myself off the cost of New Jersey five
years ago and raised it since it was the size of a dime.
<Neat, and you are to be commended. This BF is not easily
About a month ago we had a long power outage. The next day the
fish developed white film over both of it eyes.
I let the fish be for two weeks and did frequent water changes
thinking this would cure the problem.
<A good approach I'd warrant>
The fish than proceeded to get these white attachments that would
hang on the tail. I attached a picture and hoping you can see
what I am referencing.
When none of these symptoms cleared and the eyes still remained
cloudy I decided to treat for a bacterial infection.
I treat with Maracyn which had no effect and most recently with
Nitrofurazone. I have not seen any improvement in the fish and am
kind of lost on what to do next. Does this look or sound familiar
<Yes... "just" stress, mucus...>
Is there a treatment you can recommend?
<Yes... just time going by and good care. Should clear of its
own accord in a month more or so>
I appreciate any advice you can provide.
<Welcome. Bob Fenner>
Stumped.... Forcipiger hlth., troubleshooting
I am quite confused about medicating a Long nose Butterfly.
I recently treated my long nose with Quinine Sulfate for Ich and after
about three weeks it's finally gone.
<In Quarantine? Or in-tank? If you did this in tank, then the Crypt
will not be gone>
From a previous email one of the representatives from WWM recommended
that I treat with a product called PraziPro because my Butterfly was
flashing (he said, based on what I told him, he probably has gill
I started treating with the Prazi and ever since then my BF has
increased rapid gill movement and twitches a lot.
If in fact he did have flukes, I thought the Prazi was supposed to help
kill them.....why are they getting worse?
<Are they flukes? If you remove the fish and freshwater dip him, you
might see one or both of two things that would give you a better idea:
If he stops flashing afterwards, then it is probably flukes. If you can
see specks on the base of the dip container (usually white, so a dark
dip container might be prudent), then they also could be flukes.
Removal of these and placed under a cheap microscope will confirm. If
neither of these happen, then it is probably not flukes>.
He has been clear of spots for over two weeks
<Could have just cycled off... the fish may still be infested with
Crypt.. in the gills, thus the heavy breathing & flashing>
and I proceeded with the full treatment recommended for QS. Please
<Another possibility here... medication in the water can/ does
irritate fishes, to the point where they exhibit 'flashing'
behaviour. You might find that with the removal of the medication and
improved water quality this will ease off>.
Thank you folks
<No problem, Simon>
Stumped.... Forcipiger hlth. 2/28/10
Yes he is in a 40g quarantine tank.
I am going to lose my long nose, this morning I woke up and his gills
are moving very fast and he's just in the middle of the tank
gliding in the water.
<Mmm, don't give up hope. What are your tests for ammonia/
nitrite? Is the fish feeding?>
I also have an Auriga BF in the same tank which I previously treated
for Oodinium and he is fine but my long
nose is not.
<Mmm, you have been treating for three different things? Likely only
one was the cause/ problem here.. a pointer to the fact that correct
diagnosis is vitally important to do BEFORE any fishes are
Seems like ever since I dosed with PraziPro a second time, all things
got worse. What do you think?
<I think you have been using too many medications, without certain
knowledge of what you are treating. I would remove all with some carbon
& a skimmer, keep ammonia/ nitrite down and try to get the fish
feeding, see if he can recover while you consider your next
I also use baking soda to buffer the water and ever since I put it in,
there's like a smoke in the water.
<You've used too much, this will not help the fish breathing -
can irritate it. This should precipitate out and the water will clear.
. maybe a large water change w/ out the baking soda might be
appropriate. I never do this in quarantine anyway, because a higher pH
means that any ammonia in the water is in it's more toxic form.
Just standard salinity will be fine, maybe in this case lowering it a
couple of points might help the fish w/ osmosis>
I can see this in the flow from the filter
under the tank light. Is this unusual?
Re: 27/02/10 Re: Stumped.... 2/28/10
Ok. My nitrite and ammonia are zero.
<That is good news, and makes this much easier to manage>
Both of them were feeding but now only the Raccoon is. The Auriga looks
at the food and grabs it but doesn't swallow it.
<Mmm, maybe some damage from the medications..>
I am going to do what you said but I just don't understand why
they're breathing fast constantly.
<Why do you have these separated from the main system? Are you some
way into a 'fallow' period for crypt? If not, if there is no
improvement with the removal of the meds from the system I would
consider returning the one
at least to the display>
And they both had one gill closed at certain times. I've done
everything I could at this point. Hopefully it's
just the baking soda and it's harmless.
<You might find with the removal of the med from the water and a
water change things improve>.
<No problem, Simon>
Re: 27/02/10 Re: Stumped.... 3/1/10
Yes I'm letting my tank be without any life.
<Ok, don't put the fish back yet then>
And I did remove the meds and that's when I noticed both fish only
using one gill to breathe.
After a freshwater dip they seem to be full of life for a good day.
Then the rapid breathing starts again.
<So the dip provided some relief? This is a clue.. I would dip
watch, and see if anything identifiable comes out in the dip
The Prazi pro did not work so I am assuming this isn't a fluke.
So the only other possibility this is leaning toward is the start of
Ich or Velvet right?
<No, there are others... as posted.. incl. the meds themselves, the
I just dosed another of Quinine yesterday morning. Do you think I
should keep this up or just skip on the dosing and leave the water
<You have not yet diagnosed the problem, and you state these meds
have not yet worked, so I would cease for the moment. Your nitrite
& ammonia are zero, so you have some time here...I would cease the
medications, do the
water change, try to nurse the fish back to health..get it to feed.
Freshwater dip the fish and watch.. if this provides relief then it is
likely not crypt or velvet as these are too far embedded for freshwater
to have an effect. You may have already treated the initial cause here
with your previous administrations. Simon>.
Re: 01/03/10 Re:
Stumped.... Forcipiger hlth. 3/2/10
Ok thanks a lot for getting back, I am going to do this now.
<Please write back with your results, Simon>
Stumped. Multiple medications, no diagnosis, not listening, QT tanks.
Forcipiger, other BF hlth.
My Raccoon is better and swimming around more. <Good> My Auriga
will not eat no matter what I do, the tank was left medicine free like
you suggested for three days and no change.
<Impossible. I suggested this on the 26th Feb, and again on the 1st
of March. You then dose QS on the 1st of March AFTER I suggest you
remove it. It is now the 3rd and you posted this yesterday on the
He's wasting away and I just feel it's something more than
<Yes, the fish is stressed out. It is probably your own actions, NOT
some unknown and mysterious pathogen causing this. People always want
to find some other solution that means it is not their own fault, but
invariably there is no other solution. What size is this quarantine
About five days ago he was eating like a pig then all of a sudden his
bones start showing (the time frame in which he went from healthy to
unhealthy was unbelievable, I almost felt like I was seeing things). I
have tried Mysis, algae sheets, algae tabs, brine shrimp,
angel/butterfly formula, Spirulina and omega brine, you name it. He
still goes for it but he doesn't swallow it.
<Damage from all the medications you've been chucking in, probably.
Keep trying to get it to feed, with just Mysis, and try to keep
yourself as small as possible. A giant hovering over a small QT tank is
enough to stress anyone out>
And I also can't understand for the life of me why it still looks
like there's smoke in my water. I didn't add any baking soda
like you suggest and I STILL have water that looks like someone took a
drag of a cigarette and exhaled into my tank, lol.
<? Your own actions.. and a clue as to why the fish is not feeding.
Perhaps set up another QT tank with clean water and move the filters
and fish over, acclimated>
Is this harmful to the fish? What could it be from?
<You have been using multiple medications...>
My ammonia is zero, nitrite is
zero and nitrate is below 30ppm, ph is around 8 and salinity is at
about .019. <1.019, ok for the minute> Any ideas?
<Posted, or perhaps moving the fish back to the display>
After seeing how the fish reacted without medicine
<When? Never. They have not been without medication for any length
I realize that there is definitely something going on. <Me too>
So I went ahead and treated with PraziPro again because at this point,
all symptoms lead to gill flukes.
<?? Did you freshwater dip these like you were advised to try and
check? I told you that chucking medications willy-nilly into the tank
could easily be your problem here, and what do you do? You chuck some
more in, and not just one but two! Problems are not always unseen
parasites or bacteria but quite often are the result of aquarists own
actions. And you wonder why your water is smoky. Would you have much of
an appetite if the air you were breathing was full of chemicals? Right
now you have a starving Butterfly and a mixture of Quinine Sulphate and
PraziPro in your tank. This is madness, and a pre-cursor for
Since PraziPro is considered a very non-stressful medication I figured
it would be ok on the fish.
<But your fish are sick, and you don't know why. You are taking a
crap shoot approach here, and this approach more often that not kills
fishes. I warned you about this>
Before I did this I went ahead and called the specialist at the company
listed on the PraziPro bottle and he was also
convinced we are dealing with gill flukes.
<Did you put one under a microscope and send him a photograph? No.
Did you tell him that you have already tried treating with this twice
before and it has not worked? I doubt it>.
The fish have no spots, they're not flashing and the Quinine
Sulfate did not help any with slowing down gill movement.
<Why would it?>
At this point, the only symptoms are rapid breathing and
<They will do this anyway in a QT tank because of the stress,
especially in the presence of chemicals! It is likely there are no
parasites in there, especially with the cocktail of drugs you have been
Simon, after two weeks of these symptoms, by this time I would see some
spots or body slime if this was Velvet or Crypt. Right?
<Oh, dear. I repeat my previous advice to you and well see where we
go. The biggest danger to this fish here (since ammonia/ nitrite are
both zero) is the lack of food. This should be your priority. Fishes
often will lose their appetite in conditions of stress and in the
presence of meds. You need to remove this stress from the fish and get
it to feed, otherwise it will die. It is that simple. Do this by
stopping the medications, giving it some more space if possible, maybe
moving back to the display via a freshwater dip. I repeat, again, the
presence of medication in the water can also show these symptoms on
fishes. You are your own worst enemy here. Calm down, think clearly,
improve the conditions for the fish and get them to feed>
When my fish had velvet before it's almost like they "go
nuts" and after about four days of that they die rather fast. This
just doesn't seem to be similar to that of Velvet
symptoms.....through my experience anyway. I'd like to have your
<Please stop thinking about parasites, YOU are the problem. This
fish needs food. Feed it>.
Thanks so much
<No problem, Simon>
Re: 02/03/10 Re: Stumped. Multiple medications, no diagnosis,
not listening, ...
Wow, way to go Simon! With all that pessimism in the last email I feel
hopeless and all motivation has gone down the tubes. I guess the thin
Auriga will just have to die, I refuse to buy another QT tank.
<I have given you a couple of options that do not involve buying a
new tank. Shall I repeat them again? Ok, here we go... 1) Remove the
med, improve the conditions and get the fish to feed in QT. 2) Move the
fish to the display and get it to feed there.>
I didn't pay enough money for the fish to put more money into
another tank. I did everything I could do (for me).
<No, you did not. First, your lack of quarantine in the first place
has introduced the parasites, followed by your 'shotgun'
approach to treating with various meds without a diagnosis, followed
lastly by your failure to take the advice you were given>
Thanks for the input, next time be more optimistic with someone whose
asking for your advice.
<Jay, I spent a long time giving you advice here, and was happy to,
over a period of days. This advice you have ignored. I have to ask
myself, and you, what is the point in coming back for advice time and
again if you don't bother to follow it? Am I wasting my
Otherwise, like this particular situation, all goes down the tubes with
your showering of negativity.
<Negativity, no. I was trying (in a blunt manner, since you had not
listened up to then) to get you to see the truth of what is happening,
since tip-toeing around the subject is no good for anyone. I/ we are
not here to molly-coddle and be nice to you. We are here to help you
with your fish problems.>
Have a good one
<Thank you, Simon>
Disease Diagnosis 11/14/09
Hello WWM Crew,
I am embarrassed to have to write you under these circumstances
but I am looking for help diagnosing the problem I have going on
<No need/cause for embarrassment>
First, the background information. I have a 160 gallon tank with
120lbs live rock, a purple tipped anemone, two tank raised clowns
and a purple tang. I have had all of this in the tank for about 3
years with zero problems. I felt it was time to add to the tank
so I set up a QT tank (not sure if you can call it this, as I put
live rock in, fed it with water and some substrate from the main
display and let it cycle for over a month now. so really it's
just a small 'other tank'). I then went to the LFS and
a Saddleback BF and a Raffles BF. After staring at them for
almost too long in the tanks at the LFS and talking with an
employee (here is where the problem starts), he convinced me that
they have had these fish for a few weeks, the water isn't
shared with the other thanks, they are eating just fine
<Did you see this?>
and are essentially quarantined right there in the store. So I
took them home, fresh water dipped them and plopped them in my
160 gallon tank, totally ignoring the fact that I had a perfectly
good QT tank beside it (yes I know. lesson learned.).
Here we are a week later, with the Raffles doing wonderfully -
eating happily, swimming around with personality, picking at
rocks. even happy to see me when I come around with some food.
The Saddleback, however, is doing some things that I am not sure
about. Last night, for the first time, I saw him rub on one of
the rocks -
<Some rubbing behavior is fine>
he would line up his fin / gill area, press against it and then
do a swoop off of the rock. I only saw him do this twice at that
moment, and after watching them for hours, he hasn't done it
Another thing he did last night was move his mouth open and
closed quite a bit, and do some very heavy fast breathing while
staying still in the water.
He also once in a while does a body shake / shiver.
He isn't nearly as active as the Raffles, and doesn't
pick at any rocks.
<This is bad... this specimen is very thin... has a low index
of fitness as we say in fisheries>
He also won't eat (I have been feeding Mysis). There are no
signs of white specs on him, and he looks totally fine, other
than maybe his gills look a little red (see attached photos).
I'm thinking I am going to move him to the QT tank, treat the
tank with copper
<I would not do, use this>
(obviously move the LR out before doing this) and if you think it
would be a good idea, do 3 - 5 formalin dips on him.
<Perhaps one enroute to quarantine>
However, I am looking for some sort of confirmation that this is
<Is not. If so, all your fishes would have contracted it, and
likely be dead by now>
as I am now thinking that even though all the other fish are
fine, they are going to eventually come down with it too.
<And your system would be infested>
Oh, and one thing I forgot to mention is that when I decided his
gills were slightly red, I couldn't believe it as I can't
remember the last time I have had water problems in the big tank,
but I figured my ammonia or nitrite levels were high. so I did
that check and everything is perfect (0 and 0). Nitrate is even
fine at just above zero.
So this once again confused me (if the water was bad the other
fish would be complaining too I would assume).
So first things first, based on the pictures and the actions
described above, what do you think I am looking at here?
<For one, a "bad" specimen... IF it is not too
inconvenient, I would simply return it to the store
Is it a parasite I can be rid of by copper and formalin
<This regimen will almost certainly kill this fish in its
present condition. Even when Chaetodon ephippium, actually all
Chaetodontids are in excellent shape, they fare poorly if exposed
to copper, formalin>
If so, I assume this means the other fish are infected as well
and I should treat everyone and leave the main tank fallow for a
month or two?
<Again, I don't read or see in your pix evidence of
Or should I just treat the Saddleback and see how the others fair
in the meantime? Or, maybe I should see how it plays out, which
means I should concentrate on getting the Saddleback to eat?
<If you can't return the B'fly, I'd try interesting it
in other foods, soaked in a vitamin & HUFA prep. (liquid
stimulant) like Selcon... Try adding some new/er live rock, try
frozen/defrosted bloodworms, a small opened shellfish (from the
human food store or Gamma brand), try even some live brine
shrimp. This "upon the horse": ephippium (which for
humans is a saddle) is likely just stressed from capture,
starved from lack of nutrition through the process. In future, I
would demand that such potential purchases be fed in my presence.
Please read here:
Thank you in advance,
P.S. I apologize for my dirty tank - I haven't cleaned it
since the arrival of the BFs as the Mag-float stresses them out
and I am trying to avoid any unnecessary stress!
Unknown Fish Disease? Chelmon spots 11/12/07Hello there, Love
the site it saved my sick sand sifting star fish (he's now in
a MUCH MUCH bigger home) not to mention research here prevented
me from buying a horse shoe crab my LFS was trying to push on me.
Hopefully you can help me with my most recent problem for
starters I'll run my tank info at ya. 50 Gallon Tank about 4
months running Remora C Protein hang on Skimmer 2 Hydor Koralia
Pumps #3 850gph each 1.5" Dolomite bottom <Mmm, do
replace this in time> 2" live sand bed on top of the
dolomite would this be considered a plenum of sorts? <Of a
sorts... but do you have the defined "gap" water space
alone underneath?> probably 40 or 50 lbs of live rock good
coralline coverage on pumps and back wall Water parameters: last
tested 10/26 at LFS <I'd get your own kits... water
chemistry changes with movement, time...> Ph 8.1 Ammonia 0
nitrite 0 nitrate 10 (was told this might be due to a 350 magnum
canister filter that I have removed from the system) KH 9 Calcium
450 Salinity 1.023 Live Stock: 10 Blue leg hermit Crabs 6 Red Leg
hermit crabs 3 zebra striped Astrea snails 1 turbo snail 1 gold
ring cowry 1 queen fighting conch 1 Pencil Urchin 1 Cleaner
Shrimp 1 long tentacle Anemone 1 anemone crab 2 emerald crabs 1
brittle starfish brown How's the cleaning crew look? light
heavy? <A mix... I'd keep your eye on the Mithraculus>
1" colony of star polyps 1" colony of Zoanthids 1"
Florida Ricordea Fish: 1 green mandarin (he eats live brine,
frozen Mysis, and chilled ArctiPods along with the live pods on
my LR) My current worry is my only other fish a Copper band
butterfly <Hard to keep in small tanks like this> he has 3
black spots on the very edge of his pectoral fin and one black
spot on the farthest back edge of his dorsal fin I've
searched your site for black spots but all I can find is black
Ich these spots are about the size of #2 pencil lead seemingly
MUCH larger than the pictures of black Ich I've found they
haven't spread or moved but just hold on. He hasn't shown
any signs of rubbing against anything or discomfort he's
still eating an lot of Mysis shrimp he never ignores it so I just
feed him a few minutes worth and leave it at that. <I would...
do nothing overt here... The spots could be "just
coloring"... melanism from?...> He won't stay still
long enough for my cleaner to go near him I don't think
it's a lazy cleaner because it loves to pick at my fingers.
I'm nervous that these black spots have the potential to
spread to my mandarin I haven't set up a QT tank yet Any
ideas what these might be? Please help <Not likely at all to
be a spreading problem> I'm also considering in the future
a black false percula clown and a flame angel I don't want to
overload the system though does it sound ok to you? Thanks, Very
nervous <Don't be... Do start planning re where you're
going to put the new, larger system... You've got the bug,
not the Chelmon. Cheers, Bob Fenner>
Re: Unknown Fish Disease? Chelmon spots
11/14/07 Hello again! I didn't properly proof read my
E-mail and there was a miscommunication here on the Copper band
spots. I'm terribly sorry... They aren't really spots but
have the size of small black ants attached to the fins. <I see
them...> 3 on the pectoral and one on the tip of the dorsal
I've enclosed two pictures hopefully they're high enough
quality and yet small enough to meet your standards. <Yes...
good images... Don't appear to be
"organismal"...> here are some interesting bits of
info that might or might not help. The fish seems to have a very
minor case of Ich on the fins that do not have these black things
on them but no sign of white spots on the pectoral that has them.
I can't seem to get a closer shot then the one I'm
sending you and they have shown no signs of movement it might be
my imagination but it seems like one has actually "fragged
itself" with 3 tiny spots next to it that I did not notice
before but I might be more paranoid now than before. Please help,
Sincerely Confused <Again... I do think these are random bits
of melanization... perhaps this specimen was physically whacked,
as with a net... even dropped to the ground at some time. They
could be from an accidental run-in with the Zoanthids. I would
leave it as is... not subject the specimen to medication,
moving... the marks will likely fade over a long period of
time... though a purposeful cleaner might well remove them post
haste... Maybe a Lysmata species. Oh! I see you list a cleaner
shrimp below. Hopefully these will partner. Bob Fenner>
Scratching 9/27/07 Hello Bob & Co, I come to you guys
more often than I take my kids to the doctor!! My Auriga which is the
only fish in my 60gal/60lbs/skimmer/FBD tank is scratching a lot and
shaking her face. She tries to scratch around the area behind her eyes.
No sign of white spots and she eats very well. I have a cleaner shrimp
in the tank as well. I have a 10 gal QT tank. What should I do? 1.
Dip/Bath and then to QT? 2. Lower SG of QT and then let him sit there
for a while? 3.Copper etc? 4. Other? As always, thank you for all your
help. -Gans <4... just observe for now. Bob Fenner>
Re: Auriga Scratching
9/30/07 Hi Bob, He was still scratching as of yesterday. Today he
is acting very lethargic. Just hanging out in one place or the other
without swimming much. Not his usual self for sure. Still takes food
and eats it all. No spots or anything else in the body that I can see.
Should I still stay put and observe? Thanks! Ganz <Yes.
Re: Auriga Scratching
10/1/07 He didn't make it Bob! Found him dead this morning. I
am 2 1/2 months into this hobby and am off to a rough start. Killed 2
Henis by having them in a 10 gal qt tank, now the Auriga . Pretty
depressing! Not sure if I should continue. If I do, should I wait a
month before I add anything to the tank? <A good idea, yes> I
just have snails, crabs and a shrimp in there. Thanks for all your
help! Cheers Gans <Convert, re-direct the energy, feeling into
progressive activity... READ before buying... BobF>
|Need Help with Diagnosis: Copperband
Butterfly 09/17/07 I purchased a Copperband Butterfly fish on
Friday (9/14) from an online vendor. I noticed some redness on the
bottom right and left sides of this fish today (Sunday, 9/16). The
eyes and fins are clear. I have pics of this fish located here:
http://www.flickr.com/photos/7329275@N05 <Bad scrape... likely a
thrashing with being roughly netted in the wild...> The fish is
not eating yet, prolly still recovering from his trip. Is this a
viral or bacterial issue? Is this something that can be treated? If
so, with what? <May become bacterial... No "treatment"
suggested other than good care...> The other fish in the tank
<... this fish was not quarantined? Mistake> are a pair of
cinnamon clownfish and a gold spotted Rabbitfish. The clownfish
have been in the tank for 2.5 months and the Rabbitfish for one
month. they are healthy and are eating vigorously. Salinity- 1.024
Nitrates-0 Ammonia-0 Nitrites-0 Calcium-420 Alk-3.43 Temp 80.6 Any
advice and suggestions are appreciated. Thanks
<Read... on WWM re Chelmon care... Bob Fenner>
|My Copperband, a new addition, has developed two white
patches 2/1/06 on its left side. Please see
attachment. Please advise if you can identify what this may be and
how to treat. Thanks, Tom <Is trouble... could be protozoal
and/or bacterial/pathogenic in nature. This fish is (too) skinny,
and this is likely a factor here as well... There are a few
"things" you might do to bolster its immune system,
indirectly curing the apparent complaint... Soaking foods in
vitamin et al. prep.s... offering foods with more caloric content,
adding purposeful cleaner/s... Without these changes this animal
will perish (sooner). Bob Fenner>
Follow-on from sick Chelmon 2/3/06
Contagious and or a risk to fellow tank inhabitants?
<Potentially... yes. Depends on what the root cause/s are,
what "it" actually is... Copperbands "break
down" much easier... on a sliding scale than other fish
groups... the hyperinfectivity this inspires can be trouble,
contagious... Bob Fenner>
Re: Lemon Butterfly only
using one gill Can't find the exact answer to my question in
the faq's, if that's what your trying to tell me
<Strange...I remember typing...Well here goes again.> Yes
he's brand new and he's in a 20g QT tank with malachite green.
<Ah, good!> Should I do something else, or is this medicine
good? <A good start and possibly all that you will need> I
should be concerned? <Safer than assuming all is well.> Is
this fatal? <Possibly. I don't mean to scare you here, but that
is what the QT is for. Now you've noticed something worth
monitoring. I would advise you to research all of the possibilities
here as you will need a positive ID to know what you need to do.
Without this you can mistreat/harm your fish through good intentions.
Some things merely start in the gills, then get worse; others stay in
the gills and cause suffocation. Check here and the links, http://www.wetwebmedia.com/parasiti.htm
. Much to review but it should help.> Thanks again <Welcome and
sorry for the blank response earlier. - Josh>
<<Editor's note: This does happen from time to time - if
you receive a blank reply, do look in the next day's FAQs to see if
it's been posted there. This query and response was posted
yesterday, click on the TBPFAQs page and you might find the original
response there. Marina>>
Re: Lemon Butterfly only
using one gill Hey Josh no problem man, I appreciate your
competence! <I hope I deserve the kind words, and thank
you.> I have formalin, malachite green, and Cupramine at home.
Obviously, I don't have much time as I just read on the FAQ's.
<Can't give up. Remember to keep a cool head and not get
"too experimental".> So, which medicine would be
most beneficial and work the fastest in killing these parasites?
<I must confess here that I've been beyond lucky in this realm.
Despite all of my ignorance starting out, I've never had one sick
fish! Hence all I say here now is from my "studies". This is
important to get right so I will ask Bob to confirm/correct
this.> Seems B/F's are more sensitive to these gill
problems (flukes, parasites, one-gill movement, etc.). Any suggestions
on trying new things, I don't want him to die.<People beat this
all the time.> If you were me, what would YOU do in this situation?
<Here goes... if this fish hasn't worsened then I would probably
do a f/w dip/bath. Praziquantel @1ppm is the other popular choice I
believe. After these I would just observe and hope that it was over
before trying more. Sorry I don't have more hands on experience
here but hopefully someone else will chime in.> Josh, thanks again,
greatly appreciated!!! <Wish I could do more. - Josh> <Mmm, I
encourage you both to peruse the Butterflyfish Disease FAQs... I do
agree with Josh's input here. Bob Fenner>
Unexplained death... rates of mortality, expectations
9/25/05 Hello all, <Mark> I am having a very difficult time
'getting the hang' of this saltwater aquarium
thing! I have been reading your many articles for many weeks
now and thought I was making good progress - until this
morning. I awoke to find my 3.5" Punctato
Butterfly at the bottom pretty motionless except when
he dart about from time to time without any equilibrium. I
have had him for 19 weeks to the day. He has
always eaten well. I feed him Formulae 2 and
Mysis shrimp. <Like most all Butterflyfishes, this one does often
"die mysteriously", usually overnight> I watch my fish
regularly and he was acting normally the
night before. His coloration is still
perfect. I cannot see any signs
of disease. The only thing out of place is his
tail fin with a very small tear. The only other
fish in the tank is a Firefish. I was just getting ready to
begin purchasing live rock to slowly add before buying
more fish. <Mmm, would have been better to have had the
LR first/ahead of time> My water parameters are all near
perfect (nitrite, nitrate, ammonia=0, Ph=8.2, 79F, SG=1.22)
<Better to keep SPG near 1.025> I use RO water. I have a 75 gal.
tank with Eheim 2217 filter, Aqua C Remora Pro and UV
sterilizer. I have 1.5" of
aragonite substrate. I set the tank up about 9 months ago.
<Some folks would say to keep the substrate thinner or decidedly
deeper> Possible problem(s). I bought 10 very small (pea
sized) hermit crabs, 2 snails and a 1.5" emerald crab
last week as a cleaner crew to help with my
algae. I netted them and placed them directly into my
display tank as I was told they do not carry any diseases
that can harm my fish. Could they have brought a
disease that could kill this quickly? <Possible, but unlikely>
Could the emerald crab have done something to the butterfly
overnight to injure him in such a way to cause this
condition? <Probably not> I am having serious doubts whether I
can continue trying to get things right and spend additional
dollars on live rock etc. as I have over $1700 invested so
far and essentially nothing to show for my efforts or
expense. Can you tell me something to encourage me or
explain what might have gone wrong? Help, Mark <Mmm,
general stress... but/and something very important to impart to you re
the "general survivability" of marine fishes... period, this
BF in particular... Most fishes don't live for a month or two...
BF's likely less than a month (really... though most are
"bumped off" rather than dying from pathogenic causes)... 19
weeks is a good long time relatively... Bob Fenner>
Re: Unexplained death... rates of mortality,
expectations... 9/26/05 Thanks for your Saturday reply (do
you ever take a day off?), <Mmm, not often> A few follow up
questions. I want to slowly increase my salinity
from 1.021 to 1.025 per your suggestion. I figured I would
do it during regular 15% water changes. Is there an
accepted 'formula' based on tank size and current
salinity that will guide me on knowing about how much and what
salinity I can replace to rise the overall tank salinity by
one one-thousandth? <A proportionality problem... V1/spg1
= V2/spg2... > I suppose I could just replace with 1.025 each time
but if you have a different method I would be interested to
learn. <Easy to "do the math"> Since my tank only has
the one Firefish and one emerald crab I decided to add live
rock as my budget allows (10 lbs per month or so) after
curing according to WWM's recommendations before buying
any new fish. During this painfully slow process,
I will be researching various fish for the future FOWLR
tank. <Good> Is there software, website or a database of some
kind available that tabulates many of the more basic fish
criteria for quick sorting so I can more easily isolate the
kinds of fish I can keep and exclude ones that are not an
option for me (i.e. minimum tank size, food types, and
gross compatibility - <None that I've seen that are
accurate, useful> I understand there is a large gray area regarding
compatibility but there are also lots of absolutes that need
to be avoided). Information like this would be
very helpful while deciding about the many, many options
out there. I keep falling in love with a fish
only to find I can't keep it due to my tank size,
overall capability (i.e., beginner) or other fish
I want/have etc. <This "data accumulation" is
(actually, for me) some of the "most fun" part of the
hobby... I like to "find things out"> Finally, I was very
surprised to read your statement about general
survivability of marine fishes - specifically "most
fishes don't live for a month or two". <"Is
a fact Jack"> Are you saying that even if I were to approach
your knowledge of marine fish keeping (LOL) I will still
experience regular die-off every couple of months? <Mmm,
perhaps a few to several months...> This will be a hard sell to my
spouse and potentially a deal-breaker. Any
help/clarification on this topic will be very appreciated!
Mark <Just a historical fact that I thought was
pertinent. Bob Fenner>
Cyanided Copperband? - 03/31/2005 Hello, <Ahoy,
thar, Rob! Sabrina here, this fine evening.> A couple of months ago
I emailed you about my success with a Copperband butterfly in my 90
gallon reef tank. In fact you guys posted on your website, very
cool. <We do try to post everything! Thank you for sharing
your experience with us before; I hope we can be of service now....>
I have a question though. How do I determine if a fish has been caught
by cyanide? <This can be extremely difficult to determine with any
certainty.... Location of collection may shed some insight; I believe a
fish can be necropsied after death to discover if cyanide poisoning did
it in or not....> <<Editor's note: In general, not
always, Indo-Pacific fishes may be suspect. If not collected with
cyanide, may have been exposed via run-off, downstream of mining
operations.>> For the last two months this same Copperband
has been eating everything in sight, Mysis, bloodworms, squid, clam -
pretty much whatever I put in the tank but for the last 2 weeks he
seems to be getting thinner by the day. <So, he's eating
heartily, but he's losing weight? A few possibilities here,
including cyanide poisoning.> I feed my fish 2-3 times a day and I
vary their diet. I have quite a variety of fish in there. My water
parameters are pretty much where they need to be, ammonia - 0, nitrites
- 0, nitrates - 0, ph - 8.3. <Salinity? Alkalinity? Tank size?
Other fish? Most recent addition? Were all additions quarantined?> I
have been observing the tank for several days and nights to see if
other fish are harassing the Copperband causing it stress but none seem
to be. There are no signs of parasites, fungus or bacterial
infection. <Mm, actually, the fact that the fish is losing
weight despite an obviously hearty appetite is a strong sign of
internal parasites. Can't see 'em when they're on the
inside, after all. It might also be an indication of mycobacteriosis,
an essentially incurable internal bacterial complaint. Other signs of
mycobacteriosis are deformations of the spine, possibly clouded/frayed
fins, small lumps/granulomas, or bloating. Let's hope, for now,
that it's not mycobacteriosis, and not cyanide poisoning, as
there's not a whole heck of a lot you can do about those. Let's
turn to the possibility of internal parasites, and explore that a
bit.> I have many years experience with saltwater fish and inverts
but I have not seen this before. This Copperband seems to be wasting
away no matter how much he eats and he eats a lot. What should I be
looking for? <At this point, let's hope for the best. If
you have access to a high-powered microscope, collect a fecal sample
from the fish and take a look. You will probably need help from a
university biology professor, or a veterinarian, with this, unless you
have a lot of confidence in making a diagnosis. If you don't seek
the help of someone of that nature, then try to get a hold of
"Handbook of Fish Diseases" by Untergasser, "Fish
Disease: Diagnosis and Treatment" by Noga, or other book with
good, accurate microscopic photographs of what to look for in the way
of internal nasties. Mostly, you'll want to determine first if
there IS anything in those guts, and secondly whether it's
protozoan or a nematode, trematode, or cestode taking residence in the
fish. If it seems that you're dealing with a protozoan, I would
suggest treating with Metronidazole in food, as the fish is still
eating. If you find signs of nematodes, Trematodes, or Cestodes, I
would try treating with Piperazine or Levamisole in food. Now, if you
DON'T have access to a good microscope, or vet, or good book, or
you simply don't feel confidant with your findings, you could treat
with Praziquantel in food, which should handle any of the above nasties
- but you'll probably need a vet's help in obtaining this.
Metronidazole, Piperazine and Levamisole are easily available in the
aquarium trade, and can even be purchased already in foods. You might
take a look at http://www.flguppiesplus.com ; I
know they have some medicated foods available.> I have to admit I am
getting ticked off at the thought that he may have been caught with
cyanide. <I would be, as well. I'd be infuriated.> The
fish store that got him in for me guaranteed he was not but you never
really know do you? <Unless you feel you can trust the fish
store, and they the wholesaler, and they the transshipper, in
collection location, and you know that location does not permit
collection via cyanide, then no, you really can't know. And even
when the stars ARE in alignment, and you DO know the entire history of
the fish, well, I'm sure it's just not possible to be
absolutely 100% certain. Sadly, it is entirely possible that this IS
the problem with your fish. I've still got my fingers crossed that
it's a perfectly fixable situation, though.> I would appreciate
any thoughts on the matter. <And there you've got 'em.
If you need further treatment information, the two books that I
mentioned have great suggestions for treatment and dosages. Do try to
look the books up, if you have the opportunity.> Thanks, Rob
Mancabelli Syracuse, NY <Wishing you and your Copperband well,
Butterfly With Cloudy Eyes Hello. <Hi there! Scott F> I
just purchased a Raccoon Butterfly and noticed after putting him into
my tank that he has cloudy eyes, in both eyes. The dealer I bought him
from just got him in yesterday. <Yikes! Next time, please be sure to
quarantine ALL new arrivals without fail, okay...?> I've read
cloudy eyes can be symptoms of general stress, water poisoning or even
fish lice. <Usually, they are positive signs of some sort of
parasitic infection. Ich and Amyloodinium come to mind. Of course, this
could also be a sign of the fish being kept in very poor water
conditions. If you see other symptoms, do take immediate action>
I'm gonna just let him be for a few days before even thinking about
a freshwater bath or medication. Any other thoughts, suggestions,
comments??? <I do like your idea of not rushing into a treatment
that may be more dangerous than the illness that you're treating.
I'd observe for a couple more days. If further symptoms don't
arise, then you might have dodged a bullet! On the other hand, if the
fish is deteriorating, do take appropriate actions to treat it.
Maintain very high water quality in this tank, make sure that the fish
is eating regularly, and observe him carefully. Good luck! Regards,
|Re: Identification of problem with Klein's
butterfly.... >Hello, >>Hello Melissa, Marina here.
>I purchased my Klein's (butterfly) from reputable LFS on
3/8/03. I took it home on 3/15/03. The transfer was
slightly traumatic as the LFS employee dumped fish onto towel
instead of transfer bag. >>OOPS! >It was
quickly put into large transfer bag (with plenty of room to turn
around and taken home. However, fish calmed and has been eating
regularly after being transferred to my QT tank. >>I
absolutely, positively LOVE hearing that folks are using quarantine
tanks! Good on ya. >Yesterday, my spouse noticed an
abrasion (?) just under rear dorsal fin on right side
only. It is slightly pinkish in color. These
are current tank conditions: 20gal Long 28 Watt 50/50 Coralife
Compact Fluor (12 hours daily) Fluval 304 Canister 301 Powerhead
Bare bottom tank w/2-3 lbs. well cured live rock 1.022 Gravity
Ammonia 0 Nitrite less than .2 but not clear
Nitrate less than 10 ppm Alkalinity 5.0 meq/l PH 8.2 3
Green Chromis tank mates. >I need some help to diagnose this
problem as abrasion (treat w/stress coat product), fungal,
bacterial, parasite? I appreciate your help. Melissa
>>Ok, I've seen the picture, it's not clear, but it
does appear to be an abrasion. Because you're still
getting nitrite and nitrate readings the fish will have a bit more
difficulty healing. You can help by doing more water
changes till you at least get those nitrites to zero (you
didn't mention which test kit you're
using). Also, if you're not already, begin soaking
the fish's food in vitamins, I like Selcon. If
you're really worried, you could begin a broad spectrum
antibiotic such as Melafix or Spectrogram (this is the broad
spectrum antibiotic used at the LBAOP as a matter of course, for
both fishes and inverts--go figure!). You'll have to
remove any carbon, should you be using it, when you
medicate. Good luck! Marina
Re: Identification of problem with Klein's butterfly....
>Thanks for the prompt reply which prompted another comment and
questions. >>You're welcome. Lay it on
me. >I am using Fastest tests by Aquarium Systems. Since
I have slight readings on Nitrites/Nitrates (I thought under 10ppm was
acceptable for Nitrates) should I feed less (currently they receive
just enough for them to clean up 1 - 2 times daily). I will
do more water changes as well. >>No, I wouldn't feed
less. Also, I'm not too familiar with the
quality/reliability of this test kit, I am very comfortable with
Salifert or SeaChem, though. Zero nitrates is the goal no
matter what fish you're keeping. >>Also, since Butterfly fish
need excellent water quality should I add a protein skimmer to the
quarantine tank since he must be in residence another 3 weeks?
>>If you're getting one of the two species known as Longnose
(Forcipiger longirostris or F. flavissimus) they aren't as touchy
as some species. Also, Copperbands are
forgiving. You could add the skimmer, or go with frequent
water changes instead. >I appreciate your help! I love
your site. >>Glad to be of help, Melissa. Spread the
word! Marina (One of my sisters is named
BF In Trouble My Punctato butterfly doesn't
look OK he is breathing fast and he has what looks like blood on his
mouth and he is swimming with his face up struggling and bumping into
everything what should I do is there a way to save him or is he a
goner? <well- I hate to be overly pessimistic here, but the blood in
the mouth is indicative of several possible problems, including
malnutrition (starvation), metabolic poisoning, and possibly some sort
of collection or other trauma. In general, Butterflyfishes that display
these sort of symptoms are difficult, if not impossible to
save. Review all water chemistry parameters, husbandry
techniques, and possible sources of trauma. There could be a heroic
effort on your part, utilizing a separate aquarium, administration of
vitamin preparations, intensified feeding, and possibly, antibiotics,
if you're dealing with possible disease symptoms as well. More
often, unfortunately, these types of symptoms usually indicate that a
fish is beyond saving...Don't give up on this fish, though...Keep
trying, and maybe you'll have some success! Good luck! Regards,
Raccoon scratching face on rocks? My newest addition (a
lunula) has been scratching just his face area the last couple of days.
I have had him 5 days and he has not eaten yet. <a quarantine
tank is the single most important piece/assembly of equipment to have
for good husbandry... all new fish and sick fish go into it for 2-4
weeks. It saves money and lives. Could have helped this situation. Do
research the articles and FAQs on this site for guidance> I tried
the variety of foods you recommended, I will just have to be patient. I
did a 5 minute freshwater dip when I first got him & I see no other
fish scratching, yet? Steve Tilotta <very glad to hear about the FW
dip. Scratching can be from water chemistry or gill parasites. If water
quality tests OK, do more FW dips with the assumption of an impending
parasite outbreak. A QT tank would be best in case meds are needed. Do
try Sweetwater Plankton (glass jar) or a live freshwater mussel
(cracked open shell) to entice the feeding. Best regards,
Help - what kind of fish disease is this? Mr. Fenner,
Yesterday evening when I came home from work, I found my Threadfin
(auriga) Butterflyfish has something strange - the "root"
part of both of its pectoral fins (the joint between the fin and the
body) is very red. I've had this fish for about a year. It is
swimming and eating as usual. This occurred overnight. What is this?
What should I do about it? <Very likely an indication of infectious
activity (bacteria) from a physical trauma (if one sided... if both
pectoral bases affected would be inclined otherwise). I would do your
best to keep the system optimized and stable, and supplement this
fish's foods with a vitamin and iodide preparation (such are
made/sold for the purpose, or you can make your own). Please read over
the "Tank Troubleshooting" and especially "Three Sets of
Factors That Determine Livestock Health" sections and beyond on
our site starting here: http://wetwebmedia.com/mardisease.htm Bob
Fenner> Thanks, Jason
Re: Help - what kind of fish disease is
this? The red is on BOTH sides. uniform around the joint. like you
said, it doesn't look like physical injury. What others could this
be? <Sorry about the mis-read. Would look into water quality
first/foremost here. This and most Butterflyfishes are often the first
fish livestock to show the affects of something/s anomalous. Bob
Fenner> thanks, Jason
Re: Help - what kind of fish disease is this? I checked water
parameters: ammonia = 0 nitrite = 0 nitrate = 40 pH = 8 temperature =
82F alk = 3 meq/L as I haven't done water change for a while, I did
a large water change (10g of 55g tank). I read your web site. It seems
like some internal infection. I have antibiotics Furan-2 (for both
gram-positive and negative) and a 10g hospital tank. But I am debating
whether it's best to treat the fish: The fish <for
browsers a Chaetodon auriga, Threadfin Butterfly> swims and eats
fine, no other symptoms. Given the stress of catching it, moving a
4" fish to a 10g tank, and the danger of antibiotics killing
biofilter and cause ammonia spike which could indeed kill the fish, is
it better off just to stay in the main tank? <IMO yes> What's
the chance of the fish fighting off this disease by itself? <Some...
depends really on the root cause/s... your nitrate is a bit high, might
be contributing to the problem... do you have live rock, some
macro-algae you could place in the system to reduce this, improve water
quality overall?> Please help me make this decision before it's
too late. <I would do what was stated before: I would do your best
to keep the >>system optimized and stable, and supplement
this fish's foods with >>a vitamin and iodide
preparation (such are made/sold for the >>purpose, or you
can make your own). And add a biological cleaner. Bob Fenner> Thank
Butterflyfishes for Marine
Diversity, Selection & Care
New eBook on Amazon: Available
New Print Book on Create Space: Available
by Robert (Bob) Fenner