Flame tetra
Problem: flame tetra's bottom lip is quivering.
2/4/12
<Probably means he's breathing heavily. Fish gulp water in, and
expel "used" water through their gill covers. So the more the
mouth moves, as if panting, the faster the fish is breathing. Typically
this means they're stressed -- could be social behaviour like
bullying, but also water quality issues, excessively high temperature,
or sudden changes in pH.>
Looks like he wants to go belly up, but fighting it off a little.
Letting himself get blown around by the light flow of the water filter
circulation.
Tank specs:
10 gallon, (should have bought a 20 or 50) had a Betta
for 2 years in it added fish:
2 cory's
4 flame tetras (1 died over night, two going strong, one looks like
he's struggling)
I do partial water changes ever 2-3 weeks, trying to do a month.
<Sounds all okay. Yes, a 20 gallon is the best side for starting a
basic community tank (10 gallons being a bit too small for community
tanks to be easily done). But Flame tetras aren't big fish, and you
should be able to keep them in a 10 gallon tank without serious
problems.>
I recently moved, the tank was empty for 2 days, then I added the Betta
plus bought the flame tetras (4) then two weeks later added the
Cory's.
Whats do you think is the problem, what fish should I get, why is my
Betta always hiding now, will he be ok?
<On the Betta front, chances are he's been nipped a few times.
Virtually all Hyphessobrycon species can be nippy, especially if not
kept in sufficient numbers (i.e., at least 6, and really 10 or more is
best). Some are worse offenders than others, but few will turn their
noses up at a nice bit of Betta finnage! Bettas very rarely do well in
community tanks.>
Thanks a lot!
<On the Flame Tetra front, a few issues to check. First, check water
quality. You must have zero ammonia and nitrite. All tetras are acutely
sensitive to poor water quality, as well as low oxygen levels and
extremes of temperature (this species is adaptable, 22-28 C, but
don't expose it to sudden changes in temperature). Next, what's
the water chemistry? These are soft water fish and won't do well in
hard water, though hard water shouldn't kill them overnight if
already adapted to hard water by your retailer. If the retailer kept
them in soft water though, and you've placed them in hard water,
this could explain the fatalities. Likewise, sudden changes in pH can
have the same effect. Finally, they're social fish.
Groups of 4 are a non-runner frankly, and while they don't die
overnight from being lonely, if you keep too few, the dominant fish
will bully the weaker ones, and this in turn can indeed cause deaths
and visible stress.
If water quality is excellent (0 ammonia and nitrite) and water
chemistry is correct (2-15 degrees dH, pH 6-7.5) I'd be tempted to
get another 4 more specimens, and see what happens. With luck, the
struggling one will have been socially stressed, and by adding more
specimens, things will settle down. Cheers, Neale.>
Re: Flame tetra 2/4/12
HI,
thanks for your reply. I'm taking a sample of my water to the pet
store for sampling.
<Okay.>
I also have a heater in the tank, and the water temp is fairly
consistent.
Could you recommend a few fish for me that could live peacefully with
my Betta?
<Honestly, there's not much! The best bets are Corydoras
catfish, but these will need a reasonably big tank, at least 10
gallons, so they're not viable for "nano" tanks of the
sort often used with Bettas. A good all-rounder would be the Bronze
Catfish, a group of 5 specimens plus a Betta working adequately well in
10 gallons. Most everything else will either nip the Bettas (even
peaceful fish like Neons!) or will be viewed as a threat (small
Gouramis) or else will be eaten (if small enough). Corydoras catfish
are peaceful and stay at the bottom, so mostly, Bettas ignore them.
African Dwarf Frogs can work too, for the same reason. Shrimps
sometimes work, but some Bettas will eat them.>
Thanks a lot!
<Cheers, Neale.>
Tetras, sel.... not pairs... --
07/18/07 Hi guys! I recently bought a Von Rio Tetra
(Flame/Fire Tetra) and a neon tetra, oh and an Otocinclus fish. I want
to learn more about the Otocinclus but there's nothing on the web
about them, and was wondering if you could help me with all the
knowledge you guys have. Oh and I bought one of each with the tetras
and found that they needed to be in a pair. Are they fine with each
other and the community fish or do I need to get another one of each?
And also can they mate with each other like Platies? Thank you so much!
Derek <Hello Derek. First of all, you can't keep "a"
tetra in most cases. These are schooling fish. Both Hyphessobrycon
flammeus (the flame tetra) and Paracheirodon innesi (the neon tetra)
are schooling tetras that should be kept in groups of 6 or more *of
each species* i.e., 6 flame tetras plus 6 neon tetras would be the
*minimum* number you could keep and expect them to last long and be
happy. I don't know who told you they want to be in pairs, but
that's rubbish. Tetras do not normally hybridise and being
difficult to breed this isn't really an issue. Platies hybridise
because the fish in the trade sold as Platies are all hybrids already
of a single pair of closely related species. Now, as for the catfish,
you're probably drawing a blank on your web searches because
you're spelling the name wrong. Try "Otocinclus" instead.
Several species are traded and retailers make no attempt to identify
them. But they're all very similar. Otocinclus spp. are schooling
fish that should be kept in groups of at least 4 specimens. They are
herbivores, and green algae *must* be a major part of their diet. If
your tank doesn't have enough green algae (and it probably
won't) you need to add substitutes such as algae pellets, algae
flake, or strips of Sushi Nori held in a "lettuce clip" (you
buy these in aquarium shops, they're like plastic bulldog clips but
with a sucker and used to feed catfish, tangs, cichlids, and other
herbivorous fishes). Supplement this with sliced vegetables such as
cucumber and courgette, plus small amounts of small invertebrates such
as frozen bloodworm. Otocinclus spp. are delicate, and many aquarists
have no joy keeping them. They need very clean, highly oxygenated
water. Nitrite and ammonia must be 0 and nitrate as low as possible.
The water temperature should be moderate, no more than 25C/77F. Hope
this helps. Cheers, Neale>
| Diseased Flame Tetra 6/20/06 WWM Crew,
<Hello - this is Jorie> First, I would like to thank you for
such an amazing website. <Bob's the best - we all agree!>
I have read many of your extensive FAQs and find them to be
invaluable. <Me too!> Unfortunately, I found this flame tetra
on his side on the bottom of my 50g tank two days ago. I
moved him to a QT tank and added aquarium salt and QuickCure
(Formalin + Malachite Green). <QuickCure is a *very* harsh
medication - what prompted you to use this? To the best of my
knowledge, it is an anti-parasitic medication, and based on your
attached picture and description, I don't see where you are
concerned about parasites. let's start at the
beginning - what behavioral/physical symptoms have you noticed with
your flame tetra and how long have these symptoms been going
on?> He is able to swim freely but he spends most of
his time on the bottom of the tank. He seems to prefer
lying on the "front side" (see attached picture), but
sometimes struggles, and succeeds, to sit upright. For a
sick fish, he's really active. He's lost a lot
of his color, has a kink in his spine near the end of his tail, and
is missing some fin. The "back side" seems to
have a few red spots but this may just be residual
color. He is refusing food. All other fish in
the main tank seem to be healthy. <I'm glad you isolated
this fish. Could be a couple of things. The
crooked spine could be indicative of piscine tuberculosis - for
which there is no known cure as far as I know. Also, the
fish could be suffering from a swim/air bladder problem, which
could be bacterial in nature.> I'm wondering if this is
tuberculosis. <Could be - see above.> Should I
try tetracycline or erythromycin? <First off, I'd suggest
getting the QuickCure out of the water. Do water changes
and put in fresh carbon or other filter media. Then, I
would recommend using a broad spectrum antibiotic, such as
tetracycline or erythromycin, or even Maracyn I or
II. At the very least, an antibiotic such as this will
prevent secondary infections in the torn fins; best case scenario,
it may in fact alleviate the primary problem of a swim bladder
disease (if it is indeed that). Something
else? Can antibiotics put in the water (as opposed to
medicated food) help with internal infections? <You are very
astute in pointing out that internal ingestion of the medication is
the best way to deal with internal infections. However,
many fish refuse to eat medicated food like this. There
are a couple of brands out there - one is called "Pepso",
and the other I am aware of can be found at
www.floridaguppiesplus.com. If you don't have the
medicated food on hand, the powdered antibiotics in the water are
your second best option. Based on the fact that I
can't give you a 100% certain diagnosis and we are simply
trying a broad spectrum antibiotic, I'd say you're OK to
just use medication in the water.> I haven't been QTing fish
when I get them, but I will in the future. <Yes -
most of us have learned this lesson the hard way.> Aren't
there a lot of diseases that are often unnoticeable for a long
time, though (such as TB)? Is 2-4 weeks really a long
enough QT period? <I tend to keep my fish in QT for around a
month and have found this to be sufficient. This is
typically long enough to allow a close observation of the fish to
see if any parasites, diseases, etc. are present.> Main Tank
Parameters: pH: 7.0 Ammonia: 0ppm Nitrate: 0ppm Nitrate: 10ppm
<All good> Main Tank Inhabitants: 1 other flame tetra 1 neon
tetra 2 lemon tetras 2 blue tetras a few snails that materialized
out of nowhere (no additions of plants for 3-4 months before
appearance). They are flat on one side, any ideas on
what they are? <Do you mean a flat spiral? If so, possibly
Ramshorn snails?> The tank has been running for 6-7 months.
<Good - seems as though your tank is cycled and everything has
been going well. Again, I'm very glad you took the
affected fish out of the main system. Do keep up with
your water changes on the main tank, just in case something was
introduced prior to your moving the fish in
question. With regard to the QT, as mentioned above,
I'd recommend removing the QuickCure and medicating with a
broad spectrum antibiotic. If you still can't get
the fish to eat, you could soak food in Kent's Garlic Extreme
(or even McCormick's pure garlic oil), which can stimulate
interest in feeding. Aside from that, I'm curious to
know when you first saw the affected fish acting different, and
what, more specifically, you noticed. This might help in
a proper diagnosis - right now, it seems as though there's a
lot of different issues happening at the same time.> Thank you
so much! Jonathan <I hope I've
helped. Jorie> |
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Diseased Flame Tetra PART 2 6/21/06 Jorie,
Thank you so much for your reply! <You're welcome.> Bad
news. This evening I noticed that both of my blue
tetras in the main tank were ill. One of them is
darting around in circle like patterns. It seems like
he can't stop moving. The other one is behaving
more like the sick flame tetra... he has trouble controlling his
swimming and spends a lot of time on his side or in other awkward
positions, although he is quite able to move
around. Both may have one or two very small red spots
on their bodies but otherwise look fine. I've
quarantined them together separately from the flame
tetra. Neither show any interest in food. I
was concerned that perhaps the flame had been sick for a while
and I had simply failed to notice it. The blues were
acting normally, however, when I wrote to you yesterday morning,
so it seems that onset of acute symptoms occurs suddenly with
whatever is affecting my fish. <In reviewing the info. from
your previous post, I believe these fish, which were likely wild
caught, were infected with something when you purchased
them. Also, in looking again at the picture you
provided previously, it seems as though there is some spinal
deformity present, which supports our previous diagnosis of fish
TB. Unfortunately, the damage is likely done even
before symptoms present themselves. Basically, your
best bet is to take the "wait and see" approach, and in
the meantime, keep your tank as clean as
possible. Here's a helpful article I found on fish
TB: http://www.aquarticles.com/articles/management/Keefer_FishTB.html. I
know you have learned your lesson, but for others out there as
well, I do want to re-emphasize the importance of quarantining
newly acquired fish...> As per your advice, I discontinued the
QuickCure and started tetracycline. So, currently, the
flame tetra and the two blues are being treated with aquarium
salt (at 1tbsp/2.5gal) and tetracycline (at Mardel's
prescribed rate). <This is probably all you can do.> All
the other fish in the main tank (now down to 2 lemon tetras, 1
flame tetra, and 1 neon tetra) seem to be doing
fine. I'm wondering if I should quarantine them,
too? Perhaps I should treat them with the tetracycline
as a prophylactic? Break down the main tank?
<I'm not a fan of medicating w/o good cause, especially
when talking about antibiotics. Just like people, fish
can develop resistance to antibiotics, so it is best to save the
medication for when you are fairly certain it's
needed. If indeed these fish have TB, in all honesty,
there isn't much you can do. If you want to be
super-precautious, you could break down the main tank, bleach it
out and start from scratch, but that usually is a last resort,
for many obvious reasons! You may also want to look
into a UV sterilizer - there's conflicting information about
the usefulness of this device, but I can say from personal
experience when I was combating a mysterious Rainbowfish disease,
it seemed to help (in conjunction with other more traditional
remedies/preventions such as good husbandry, etc.)> Ramshorn
looks like a reasonable ID for the snails I asked about --
I'll have to wait for them to get a little bigger to be sure.
Thanks, Jonathan <Sorry I don't have better news for
you. Do as you are doing and keep a watchful eye on
everyone. If you have a good relationship with the
fish store you purchased these fish from, I'd suggest calling
and asking if they've had problems with the batch of
fish...can't guarantee you'll get an honest answer, but
you might, especially if you know the folks...Jorie>
Diseased Flame Tetra - Necropsy 6/21/06
Jorie, More bad news. This morning I found that the
blue tetra that was having trouble staying upright has
died. The other one that is swimming rapidly
in strange patterns is still doing so. <Oh, I'm
sorry. And, it doesn't sound good for the other
one.> I'm interested in performing an autopsy of sorts on
the fish that died to see if there are growths on the internal
organs which might confirm TB. Do you have any links to
information on technique for doing this? Fortunately, I don't
get the opportunity to do this very often, and I've found
that it is hard to avoid damaging the insides beyond
analysis. I assume that there is a proper way to do
this. <Some helpful sites: http://aquanic.org/real/necropsy/intro_fish.html
http://www.koivet.com/handouts/akcanecropsy.doc http://ag.ansc.purdue.edu/courses/aq448/diseases/necropsy.htm
Can't say as though I've done this myself, so I really
can't offer you any more specific advice! If you have a good
veterinarian, you may want to ask if he or she will assist you,
or in the alternative, provide you with another contact person
who may be able to help. Best of luck, and sorry for
your loss.> Thanks again, Jonathan <Jorie>
|
Single Flame Tetra 2/8/06
Hello,
I'm having trouble deciding what kind of fish to buy
to stock my tank. Here are the specs to my aquarium: 10
gallon tank Light hood Whisper 20 Power Filter Tahitian Moon Sand
(black) Mini Easter Island figure <A long or short ear?> 3 medium
fake plants 8 small fake plants Bubble wall Thermometer Right now I
have 2 Corydoras paleatus (had another 2 but they died) and 3 panda
Corys. I bought 5 flame tetras a couple months ago and all but 1 died.
I was planning on buying more flame tetras but the pet stores never had
them in stock since then. What other kinds of fish would be compatible
with my single flame tetra and my Corydoras? <Some other S. American
Characoids/tetras, small barbs, Danios, Rasboras... many other
choices> I'm afraid that another type of community fish would
pick on my flame tetra since there would only be one of him. I really
like flame tetras because of their color but since they pet stores
hardly ever have them in stock, I'm thinking about trying other
types of fish. Wayne <Look to other Hyphessobrycon species...
perhaps some Bleeding Hearts... will likely school/associate with the
Flame. Bob Fenner>
Sick Von Rio tetras? 9/13/05 Howdy WWM Crew,
I stumbled (serendipitously) onto your site
when I was looking for aquarium plant advice.
My 16 gallon bow front tank houses 8 Von Rio
Tetras, a few live plants, and a small number of snails that slipped in
with the plants. Together with weekly 20% water changes,
filtration is performed by a Whisper 30 filter (I'm also thinking
of adding some peat filtration.) The temperature is 80 F.
The tetras eat well, aren't breathing hard,
appear to swim normally, and have become much redder & more
iridescent since I got them 2 months ago. However, the edge
of the dorsal fin on all of my fishes is milky looking (not fuzzy or
spotty and the fin is not jagged. The fishes came this
way.) The milkiness doesn't appear to be spreading over
the rest of their bodies, but I am very worried. Does this
sound like a bacterial/fungal disease? <Mmm, no>
Also, pictures of these fish on the web show 2 dark stripes
on the body- mine don't :| . Thank you from a new fishkeeper, Anne
<A geographical variation in this species... I would not be
concerned re the lack of barring, the white on their dorsals. Bob
Fenner>
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