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FAQs on Freshwater Diseases 3 Related Articles: Freshwater Diseases, FW
Disease Troubleshooting, Ich/White
Spot Disease,
Choose Your Weapon: Freshwater Fish Disease
Treatment Options by Neale Monks,
Related FAQs: Freshwater Disease 1,
Freshwater Disease 2,
Toxic Situations,
Aquarium
Maintenance, Freshwater Medications, Freshwater
Infectious Disease, Freshwater Fish
Parasites, Ich/White Spot Disease, Worm
Diseases, Nutritional
Disease, African Cichlid Disease 1,
Cichlid
Disease,
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 |
Black pom poms... no data of any
sort ID 5/26/08
My freshwater fish tank has been afflicted with numerous black balls like pom
poms the size of the eraser on the end of a pencil. What are they and how can I
get rid of them?
Thanks
<... gots me... Any chance for a pic or two, water quality tests, history and
make up of your system? Bob Fenner>
Re: got prob again 5/16/08
hello,
dear Neale, thank you so much that u answered my question even you were busy,
thanks a lot.
<You are most welcome!>
May God blesses you and ill medicate them until they become fully active and
fresh but until I use medicine should I introduce more fish or not?
<Medicate the fish until healthy. Once you are happy the fish are in perfect
condition, and the water quality is good, then think about adding another fish.>
thanks
ALI
<Have a good weekend, Neale.>
Sick fish in distilled water- yikes! -05/07/08
HELP!!! My fish is floating at the top of the tank. It is sideways so I can see
it. Some scales are missing and it is hardly breathing.
<Sounds to be on the way out, to be honest.>
It looks normal apart from that but it is very skinny.
<Suggest starvation... have you been feeding it properly?>
I've put it in a separate tank with clean, distilled water.
<Distilled water will kill your fish. Remove. NOW!>
What is wrong with it and what do I do? Please help me save my fish.
<No idea. Need you to tell me what the fish is, how big the aquarium is, what
the pH and nitrite measurements are. Describe the symptoms. Then we can do
something (perhaps). Cheers, Neale.>
Question about disease/illness in FW 5/6/08
Hello,
<Hi>
What is the most likely diagnosis for a fish that breathes rapidly and stays on
the bottom of the tank. There are no physical signs on an illness on the fish's
body. I have had this happen a few times and find it hard to diagnose and treat
in quarantine. Both times it happened was when the fish was in my quarantine
tank after purchase.
Thanks for your help.
Zach
<By far the most common cause of these symptoms is water quality issues.>
<Chris>
Black calvus breathing really
hard for air 03/19/2008
I bought a black calvus and it is breathing really hard for air.
<... Mmm, all fishes (in fact all livestock) is damaged, stressed in
shipping/moving... hence one part of the suggestion to quarantine, allow it to
"rest up" before being placed in a community setting where it may be harassed,
have to compete too hard for food...>
I put him in well established tank, 80 degrees PH 7.9 nitrites and nitrates are
in a normal parameters.
<... need data, not subjective evaluations>
The other cichlids he is with are doing fine and breathing normal. He just sits
on the substrate doing nothing. He does not have any signs of
disease no white spots or no cloudy eyes all fins are good he sits right side up
no swaying or anything what do you think
Troy
<... Read more widely on the Net re fish physiology, husbandry, particularly the
value of quarantine... there is very likely nothing "wrong" with this Cichlid
than that it's new. Bob Fenner>
Re: Fish suddenly sick
3/17/08
Hi Neale,
<Allison,>
Unfortunately, all my fish died over about a three-day period (after the pH
shock I wrote to you about a few weeks ago, see the email below).
<Not entirely surprised, but I'm sorry anyway.>
I don't feel up to trying to do another community tank, and after all that I
don't even think I believe in the pet aquarium business anymore, but I have a
beautiful 30-gallon aquarium set up and don't want it to go to waste, so I am
thinking of just getting a male Betta.
<Ah, don't give up! Figure out what went wrong. My recommendation would be this:
go hard water! A hard water aquarium is easy to set up, and chemically VERY
stable. Put plenty of calcareous media in the filter to act as a buffer, and
maybe mix some coral sand in with the plain gravel or silica sand substrate. Use
limestone or tufa rock for decoration. Skip live plants or at least use plants
that like hard water (such as Vallisneria, Egeria, Anubias, and Java fern). What
fish? Livebearers are the way to go! Other good hard water fish including
wrestling halfbeaks and Australian rainbowfish. Plenty of scope between these
for size, colour and temperament. The big "score" for hard water tanks is they
intrinsically buffer themselves, so wild pH changes shouldn't happen.
http://wetwebmedia.com/FWSubWebIndex/fwhardness.htm
Trust me on this; such a tank will be easy to maintain!>
I don't have any bacteria left in the tank. Do you think I can get the singular
Betta and the cycle won't be too bad, or should I do a fishless cycle?
<Do a thorough clean-out of the tank and filter, start from scratch, and use a
Fishless cycle product of your choice. Bio-Spira is popular, but I'm Old School
and simply grab some established media from another tank.>
I'm only going to have this one fish and there will be a lots of dilution for
his pollution, but I've read that the bacteria won't build up until the ammonia
spikes. Do I really need to have a big spike or can the bacteria get started
even without lots of ammonia?
<Bacteria DO NOT need a spike in ammonia. Just a little. 0.5 mg/l or less is
ample.>
Thanks,
Allison
<Cheers, Neale.>
|
Various issues with guppies,
Gourami, molly and giant Danio- Itching, not eating, fungus, White "poo" the
list goes on- Please help! Iatrogenic issues... – 03/10/08
There are so many different possibilities on what's wrong with my fish the
100's that I have read are doing nothing but confusing me more- So, I turn to
you and Thank you in advance for your assistance and your extremely
useful/informative site- Now, where do I begin?
Yesterday I had one of my male FT guppies die- this was in my 10 gallon tank
<Hard to keep such small volumes stable, optimized...>
and about 1 week prior a piece of his tale came missing- then a few days later
he started "shimmying" then a day before he died his back tail got "clamped" and
yesterday he succumbed...I had just bought a used 20 gallon (so I can convert my
10 to a hospital/quarantine tank) and after his death I moved all the fishies,
gravel, fake plants, and filter media only to the 20 gallon.
<Good>
The light is much better in there and I saw that on my other male guppy he has 2
fairly large scaleless patches on both of his front side fins and its white
where the scales used to be. my sm/med Molly and guppy are noticed to be
scratching on everything- but no other visible symptoms
Just scratching seems pretty vague- No white spots, and still eating- but I do
assume that this is related to the death of my other male guppy
<Likely so>
and possibly the male Betta that I just took out of the tank yesterday (thinking
maybe he was the one who caused the missing piece of fin,
<Could well be>
but he's still healthy)-
One big problems is I went to the LFS store today and they gave me Organi Cure
<Uhh, don't use this... too toxic>
and said to use it and it was safe- dumb me put it right in and then noticed
that it was for MARINE FISH-- ugh...So about a half hour after putting it in I
re-inserted the carbon and am now about to change half of the water....is it
safe after this to put quick cure for FRESHWATER fish in after this??
<NOT safe to use formalin period...>
And is it safe to add aquarium salt to this tank to aid in the medicine with
neon tetras in there?
<Mmm, Neons don't "like" much salt...>
My next issue is in my 100 gallon- this as of yesterday is now completely
cycled- the day before my Nitrites were still reading about 1.0ppm but now its
gone completely and my Ammonia has been gone for at least a week- One of my
dwarf Gouramis is acting "ill"-
<... it wasn't present during the nitrite...?>
and I have a Giant Danio that has had a white spot on his lower lip (maybe
"fuzzy") for at least a week but no other symptoms (still swimming and eating
like crazy!)
Gourami (100 gal)- "hiding" either on ground or upper back corner of tank- not
eating or moving much- going on for at least a day and I did notice that him and
one of my other blue dwarf Gourami's have "white stringy fecal matter" (haven't
noticed anyone else though)
<The species of Dwarf Gourami, Colisa lalia is notorious for ill health
issues... see WWM re>
pH: 8.2 in both (has remained stable)
ammonia: 0 in 100 gal (20 isn't really anything since all new water today 2 days
ago it was around 1)
nitrite: 0 in 100gal (20 now irrelevant 2 days ago around .5)
<Any present is toxic>
tank temp: 78 in both now but before I changed the 10 gal to 20 I realized the
heater was broke in 10 and the water temp was about 70-72
Volume and Frequency of water changes: 100 gal about a week ago 25%
20 gallon all of it yesterday (when moving everyone from 10) and about to do
half since I think it might be over medicated
Chemical Additives or Media in your tank: Charcoal in both- (double dose Prime
with all water changes
In 100- Aquarium salt (about 15 tablespoons), aquarium fertilizer for plants
(safe for fish) but only half dose, Bio-Spira about a weeks ago
In 20- While everyone was in 10 gal I had 2 tablespoons of salt (is it safe for
tetras?) and in the 10 gallon yesterday morning(?) I did put one of those
Lifeguard tablets in for about 20 min (about half dissolved) then took it out
put in the charcoal and my husband then put a "fungus tablet" by jungle in there
(it was only in there for about a hour and half before I found out and put the
charcoal filter back in- Since yesterday after changing everyone into the 20
gallon (with all new water) and just added the Organi Cure (which contains
formaldehyde and Copper)
<Yes... both toxic...>
It was in there for about an hour that not only was it for marine fish but I
gave the marine fish dose (1 drop per gallon) so I put the charcoal filter back
in-
Tank inhabitants:100 Gal- 3 male Gouramis, 5 Mickey platies, 3 Bala sharks, 2
mollys,2 giant Danios, 3 bloodfin tetras, 2 med/lrg angelfish- 1 rainbow shark
and 1 albino rainbow shark
20 gallon- 5 neon tetras, 4 molly fry, 1 sm/med molly, 4 FT guppies 2 male
(1just got today(oops))
<Ummmm... see below>
2 female
Recent additions to your tank: 100 gallon - plants- always rinsing and adding
more plants but I do take out ones that look anywhere near bad and added the
albino rainbow today and new bubble wand
20- just added replacement male guppy today and new tank/filter/heater/water
yesterday
I finally ask how should I treat these itchy fish that are scratching their
scales off?? Should I QT them and/or treat the whole tank and with what and
Should I treat the old tank prior to putting anyone else in there (could it be
in the gravel that's left) (whatever "it" is)
What should I do about my Gourami- I want to put him in my hospital tank but I
am afraid that there is something still in there from yesterday....AND should I
worry about the Giant Danio? Maybe QT and treat him also?
Thank you so much for following all this and I am sorry about the length I just
wanted to make sure I had everything covered in order to get the most accurate
advice....I am ever so grateful to all and any assistance I receive...Thanks
again!!
V/R a newbie that needs to stay away from the meds and stop buying and stocking
so many tanks!!! (but I just don't want my fishies to suffer by being in cramped
quarters or being ill and want to help ASAP!!)
<We, you, need to skip back a few steps... a very good deal, okay, all of the
problems presented could/should be avoided through simple use of
isolation/quarantine of new specimens... Posted on WWM... the sudden loss of
your Guppies... may well be infectious... see the Net re Chondrococcus
columnaris... the treatment you list (OrganiCure) ingredients are dangerous to
use, should NOT be placed in main/display tanks (only in controlled treatment
ones)... and the mixes of livestock... Neons and some of the livebearers (e.g.
Mollies) are poor... too wide-differences in temperature and water quality... I
strongly encourage you to stop buying livestock (for a few months) and instead
going to the public library or online and buying/borrowing a few standard books
on freshwater aquariums, reading them at your leisure, taking down good notes...
The many and grievous errors you are making will just kill more livestock... Bob
Fenner>
Re: Various issues with
guppies, Gourami, molly and giant Danio- Itching, not eating, fungus, White
"poo" the list goes on- Please help! – 03/18/08
Your advice about stopping the increase of my fish load and educating myself
on aquarium care and each species requirements is perfect and I honestly have
been trying to do just that.
<Very good.>
I don't plan on having the mollies in with the Neons much longer- only until
they are big enough to not get eaten in my main tank (they are 4 fry and its
taking forever for them to grow)
<Fry should take 3-4 months to get big enough to return to a community tank.>
My husband and Dad both seem to think all this carefulness is a bunch of "bull"
and it was my dad that started this whole thing in the first place by buying my
5 month old son a 1 gallon quickly followed by a 10 gallon fish tank and
overstocked them with inappropriate fish, which in turn guilted me into buying a
100 gallon (used) tank so they could spread out- (and then a 20gallon so I could
use the 10 for a "hospital" or QT tank and have a tank for the non aggressive
fish).
<I'm sure your Dad has many wonderful character traits and personal skills, but
when keeping animals of any sort, you DO need to be careful. It's like raising
kids: some people make very little effort to raise their kids, and the kids turn
out nice as pie. But often times when people are neglectful parents, the kids
get ruined. If you want to raise great kids with the most chance of success, you
need to make an effort. Same with fish: some people have great fish tanks but do
nothing more than change the water once a month. But most folks who take this
approach end up with dead fish. So here at WWM we advocate a "best practise"
approach that delivers the highest likelihood of success.>
Dad has had a 55 gallon for quite sometime now and has never paid attention or
attempted to learn anything about the Cycle process, water quality,
compatibility, or health of fish- His method of fishkeeping is buy em put em in
the tank feed 4 times a day and when one dies flush then get a replacement.
<Flushing fish down the loo may well be breaking a law in your state. In any
case, his approach is about comparable to parents who say children should be
beaten on a regular basis. Might have been acceptable in Victorian times, but
not any more.>
I am trying to take a more educated approach- even though fish don't have
"nerves" (according to him) and cant "feel" I still find it important to take
the best care of them I can providing my resources.
<Your Dad is out of step with the science; there's increasing evidence that fish
can feel pain, though perhaps not in quite the same way as mammals. At least
some of the argument against fish feeling pain is a way of rationalising
fishing: if we discover that fish do feel having a hook placed in their mouth
and then dragged by it out of the water, can we really treat fishing as a
harmless sport? I say this as someone who quite enjoys angling.>
Luckily I've finally got both men to stop stocking the tanks for now ( it took a
while there have been quite a few additions since my last email) and taking care
of what I have is what the majority of my time has turned into- Of course with a
5 month old the only time I can do anything is when he's sleeping which leaves
me no time to sleep myself :). I am trying to educate myself as quickly as
possible and I have even tried to return some of the fish but the places they
bought them from won't take them back.
<Very good.>
I have initiated the use of the QT tank and have treated a couple of my fish
with great success thus far- My only ongoing problems - not surprisingly to you
I am sure- Is my dwarf Gouramis.
<Total waste of space, these fish.>
My first one finally passed and I can't help but think it was only because he
wouldn't eat- I didn't see him eat a thing for well over a month...after
treating him with Fungus clear (I thought it was worth a try because he was
swimming and "resting" on his side and/or upside down and it treated swim
bladder) he became right side up within 24 hours and no longer seemed ill aside
from the not eating (when I fed him he always appeared to try to get the food
but couldn't aim right or something) At any rate he passed a few days ago and my
2nd one (a reminder I have 3) started not eating and seemed to have a bubble in
his belly. My husband put him into QT but we haven't done any sort of treatment
except trying to get him to eat (peas included). My 3rd still seems fine however
I did move him from the 100 gallon to the 20 because I noticed today that my
Angels were nipping and chasing him away from the food (and as soon as I put him
in the 20 gallon he pigged out)
<Angels can be bullies at the best of times. Anyway, re: Dwarf Gouramis, see
here:
http://www.wetwebmedia.com/FWSubWebIndex/dwfgdis.htm
>
Anyways- my new questions are solely related to DGD- I have read that this
disease stays in tanks after the sick is gone- now, is this only if the infected
actually dies in the tank or if they show symptoms in it?
<It's a viral disease, and no-one really knows whether it "stays" in tanks. Some
viruses can lie dormant for ages, other viruses die quickly if they have no
hosts. No-one really knows how it is transferred between fish, either. I'd tend
to avoid Dwarf Gouramis anyway, hence for me it's an academic question, not a
practical one.>
Also, the one symptom none of my Gouramis have had is the skin lesions. I've
looked very carefully at all 3 and did not see any abnormalities at all. Does
this mean that they do not have DGD or is this not a necessary symptom to
classify it as such.
<May be other things. Dwarf Gouramis do get sick from Finrot, constipation, and
all the other things aquarium fish can suffer from. It's just that in my
experience here in England, most of the sick Dwarf Gouramis I see in shops have
symptoms of the viral disease, so when I hear/read stories about sick Dwarf
Gouramis, I tend to put the viral disease at the top of the list of suspects.>
I guess that's not my only problem because I have noticed that almost all of my
fish have had the white sometimes even clear and/or tape-like segmented feces.
Does this mean I should be treating them all for parasites?
<Unless you actually see worms (tapeworms or thread-like worms poking out of the
anus) likely not; constipation or lack of fibre is a more likely problem.
Hexamita and Hole-in-the-Head will also cause similar symptoms, though this
disease is most often seen (in FW tanks) with cichlids. Do see here:
http://www.wetwebmedia.com/FWSubWebIndex/fwwormdisfaqs.htm
http://www.wetwebmedia.com/FWSubWebIndex/fwfoods,fdg,nutr.htm
http://www.wetwebmedia.com/hllefaqs.htm
>
Its a come and go thing and other than these issues they seem perfectly healthy.
Thank you so much for your extremely informative and helpful website and your
time and dedication you give to us new hobbyists. I am sure its frustrating when
so many people jump into these things feet first without any previous education
or forethought and then have to come to you when the inevitable problems begin
to arise.
<Ah, you "get it"! Yes indeed, if people researched before they bought their
fish, we'd get a lot fewer messages! But even if people do make mistakes, what
matters is that they learn from them. I've done some really stupid things in my
time... for example putting a too-small male halfbeak with a female (she ate
him!). When stuff happens, figure out what went wrong, come up with a better
plan, and move on.>
Thank you again for your time and this amazing resource. Very Respectfully, A
dedicated student.
<Good luck! Neale.>
|
FW... disease, learning
2/15/08
Hi Guys.
<John>
In the last two days, 4 of my 13 fish have started flashing.
<Mmm... have you "done" something recently to the tank? Added any new fish, live
plants or foods?>
Sterba's Cory
Albino Cory
Juvenile Black Molly
<Mmm... a brackish water animal...>
Juvenile Red Wag
I've looked hard but at this point I do not know whether it is velvet or ich.
<Or...?>
I want to protect the other fish but I can't take the flashing fish out of my
30G as my 10G quarantine tank is being used right now.
The only meds I know that treat both velvet and ich is Coppersafe but half my
fish are Corys and I had a bad experience with Coppersafe
before.
<I would not use copper...>
I feel like I should be doing something now but am I supposed to wait until I
see obvious signs of what it is before I use any meds? The
flashing is pretty regular so I know something is wrong but at what point would
one normally use meds?
<On more assurity of their need, usefulness>
I'm still pretty new to this so please forgive my ignorance. I did try to find
an answer to this by hitting a lot of the forums and
google searching but I couldn't find anything that was specific enough hence my
bothering you guys.
Thanks.
John Murphy.
<Raising temperature may be enough here to effect some relief... Read on WWM
(again) re Ich... and re the Molly:
http://wetwebmedia.com/FWSubWebIndex/fwich.htm
and http://wetwebmedia.com/FWSubWebIndex/mollies.htm
and the linked files above. Bob Fenner>
FW... Ich, Guppy dis., using
WWM 2/13/08
Exactly 2 weeks and a day ago, I bought 4 fish from PetSmart. 2 Fancy
Guppies (Male is, I don’t know about female) and 2 Chinese Algae Eaters.
<Do read re this fish, Gyrinocheilus... very mean... don't eat much algae...>
I put all four fish in Wardley Essentials Ick Away in a 3 gallon tank
<Mmm, too small, and why the medication?>
for 3 days. At the end of the 3 days,
<Not long enough to treat an actual case of ich...>
the male guppy and C.A.E.’s were moved to the community tank (10 gallon; four 1
inch swordtails
<Will need more room than this>
and some sort of snail) The female was moved into a 1 gallon hospital tank and
treated for Ick
<If one fish has ich... they all, the system does...>
with the medicine I mentioned. For 2 weeks and 1 day now, she doesn’t get better
or worse. Her top fin is clamped and her color has faded. She eats A LOT.
<A good sign>
All the fish food and frozen bloodworms and everything. She is also pregnant.
She swims like normal, but breathes rapidly. She’s always breathed fast, opening
and closing her mouth. The swords don’t breathe with their mouths open, but
maybe guppies
do. (These are my first guppies) I’m totally out of ideas.
<I'd be reading on WWM re...>
This doesn’t look like any disease people have ever mentioned. They say that the
fish stops eating. Mine doesn’t. (Oh, and the edge of her tail looks like it was
traced with something white.
<... reads like a case of Columnaris... Chondrococcus...>
(The edge of her tail is white)) When she swims all fins are erect, but when she
drops down her top fin droops. I don’t see any parasites on her body. I’ve also
heard something about giving egg yolk to fish. (I can’t find the website again.)
Please help. Any help at all will be much appreciated.
<Read, on WWM, the Net re... Bob Fenner>
Freshwater Aquarium Issue,
dis... env.? 1/27/08
Hello,
<Ave.>
Your site is a great resource. I read the faq's nearly everyday and have learned
a lot. I have a problem with one of my aquariums that has me pretty much
stumped.
<Hmm...?>
The aquarium is a 55 gallon that has been set up for about 6 months. It has a
Marineland HOB filter (rated at 350 gph) and a new Fluval 305 Canister filter.
<Sounds good.>
Its inhabitants are 3 Congo Tetras, 2 Geophagus Surinamensis, 1 gold Severum and
a Rainbow Shark (all less than 3 inches).
I do weekly water changes of about 25%. Ammonia 0, nitrites 0, nitrates around
.20, pH 7.6, temperature 76.
<All sounds fine. G. surinamensis is a superb fish, though notoriously sensitive
to nitrate, so keep an eye on that.>
Now, to the problem: The canister filter was added about 3 days ago (replacing
an old Marineland HOB (200 gph)). All was well until about a day later when I
noticed slightly clamped fins on one of the Surinamensis. I then noticed the
Severum had some redness above its mouth. Within hours, everybody (except the
shark) was breathing heavier than normal and generally were listless.
<Uh-oh.>
I tested for water quality problems but all tests came back as normal, just as
previously noted. I started suspecting that somehow something toxic might have
been introduced with the new filter (I had rinsed out the inside of the filter
and all media before installing), since there have been no other recent changes
(fish, diet, hardware, etc.). I changed 50% of the water and added Quick Cure (I
know I am medicating without knowing exactly what is wrong but I have had
success treating unknown maladies with this product on more than one occasion
and have never had any negative consequences).
<OK. You seem to know what you're doing, so I'll let this slide...!>
I followed-up 24 hours later with another 50% water change, more Quick Cure and
rinsed the canister and its entire media with very hot water. I am now seeing
some improvement. The redness has disappeared from the Severum and most of the
fish have started to behave normally, albeit, they all seem to be breathing a
little more rapidly than normal.
<Does sound as if there was something in the water. Did you clean anything with
soap before running it in the tank?>
The most worrisome problem is the Surinamensis, who continue mostly to just sit
on the substrate instead of doing their normal foraging throughout the sand.
<This is what they do when water isn't 100% perfect. They are among *the* most
sensitive cichlids out there. All the Geophagines are. They're better than
Tanganyikan goby cichlids I suppose, but not by much.>
I am not sure what else, if anything, I should do at this point.
<Do consider whether water chemistry changed; pH is often overlooked. The
absolute value is relatively unimportant, but changes can be dangerous. Do also
think if anything might have got into the water, e.g., paint fumes, beverages.>
I feel like the situation has improved overall and I am tempted to just let
things sit and see if the improvement continues.
<Agreed. Provided water chemistry is sound, you should just leave things be.
Water changes are always a good idea when things like this happen, so feel free
to do another 25-50% each day for the next 2-3 days just to make sure anything
nasty has been flushed out. Adding some carbon to a bubble-up box filter might
help, and can be removed after a week. A left-field thought is Velvet, which
often attacks the gills before anything else. Perhaps you had an outbreak of
that, and the QuickCure helped, and now things are better. Velvet often
irritates the gills sufficiently you see distressed breathing long before you
see the cysts.>
Any thoughts/advice would be greatly appreciated.
Thanks,
Michael
<Cheers, Neale.>
Re: Freshwater Aquarium Issue
1/27/08
Neale,
Thanks for your very quick response. In the few hours that have elapsed since I
first wrote, ALL of the fish look much better.
<Good news.>
The Surinamensis are out and about and I would like to declare victory, except,
I've been fish
keeping for about 45 years and know it's a bit premature.
<As you say. But I suspect you're over this problem at least, and things should
settle down.>
Thanks to you and WWM I knew that dilution (since I've seen parasitic,
bacterial-type problems, etc., in the past), via big water changes, was a key
element to resolving this particular problem. It should be noted that your
advice concerning awareness of soap residue (or any foreign chemical) on
aquarium equipment and external toxicity issues are imperatives and we all need
to be vigilant concerning these.
<Agreed. I confess to using soap from time to time to clean things, but that's
always followed by serious rinsing and soaking of said ceramic ornament or
whatever. An "Old School" trick after soaping or bleaching items is to stick
them in the cistern of the loo. With each flush, it gets rinsed a bit more! The
safe alternatives are lemon juice/vinegar (great for removing lime scale from
things, while being harmless to fish; brine (great for generally killing algae
and bacteria, also non-toxic); and hydrogen peroxide (for serious grime removal
and disinfecting, but breaks down so quickly as to be harmless after a quick
rinse and dry).>
In hindsight, I would have to blame something with the new filter (every time
I've checked the pH it's been about the same) and in the future, I'll be even
more aggressive in rinsing/cleaning anything I add to my tanks.
<OK.>
Thanks again for your quick response and dedication to helping others in our
hobby.
<We're happy to help. Enjoy your fishkeeping!>
Michael
<Cheers, Neale.>
?... Neale... FW...
nitrogenous... 01/14/2008
I had my water checked about 2 weeks ago. The lady said the ammonia levels
were a little high and to change 1/4 of the water which I did so I'm doubtful
that it's the water, but I'll go get it tested again.
<You should have, at minimum, a NITRITE test kit at home, so you can do this
test whenever something looks amiss. Regardless, ammonia levels are never "a
little high" -- the only safe ammonia level is ZERO, and everything else is
somewhere on the spectrum of dangerous to fishes and likely to cause disease.
High levels kill fish outright, lower levels trigger Finrot, fungus, etc. You
should also be changing not less than 25% of the water per week, and I'd
heartily recommend 50% per week if you're observing problems. Nothing helps fish
health more than regular water changes. Just from your use of words here, I
suspect you aren't maintaining your aquarium properly, and you have water
quality issues, and this in turn makes me assume the problem is Mouth Fungus or
similar.>
It's nothing like a wart, well it's not distinct. Its kind of a milky white
color but nothing actually sticks out of his skin, but you can tell the mouth is
swollen. Here's a picture, its kind of blurry but you can still kind of see what
I'm talking about.
<Can't see the picture, but assume Mouth Fungus (actually a bacterial
infection). Get a combination Finrot/Fungus medication and use AT ONCE. Follow
the instructions on the package carefully if you've never used a fish medication
before. Removing any carbon from the filter is essential.>
View full size
<Picture didn't come through.>
as you can see there there's kind of a milky color on the top of his mouth, and
its swollen which you cant really see from the picture
<Sounds like Mouth Fungus.>
View full size
<This picture didn't come through either.>
this was how he looked before with nothing around his mouth But thanks so much
for your help and fast response!!
<Over to you. The problem here is two-fold: likely poor water quality through
inadequate maintenance, and then the Mouth Fungus infection itself. Fix both of
these! Cheers, Neale.>
Sudden FW
angelfish death... & Epistylis/Protozoan f' 11/25/2007
Hi,
<Hello.>
I've been reading and reading your site looking for answers to the
sudden death of one of my Leopard Angelfish.
<Hmm... sudden deaths are always signals to check aquarium conditions:
water chemistry, water quality, correct functioning of heaters,
filters.>
I've had these 5 Leopards ( none larger than half dollar size and most
between half dollar and quarter in size) for about 4 weeks in a 12 gal
QT.
<Quite a small tank even for juvenile Angels, and small Angelfish do
not, in my experience, always travel well. I recommend people buy them
around half-size, say, 5-6 cm.>
The fish arrived just after an outbreak of ich in my 55 gallon cycled
tank and so I had to move the worst victims of ich into the hospital
tank leaving the 12 as my only resource and not cycled. I have been
doing twice weekly 25% water changes ever since to the 12 gal QT and
checking the levels of ammonia, PH 7- 7.2 , nitrites and nitrates and
all were kept at zero or nearly so.
<When it comes to nitrite, "nearly zero" isn't good enough. Cichlids
generally, and Angelfish especially, are sensitive to dissolved
metabolites.>
The nitrate being the only one ever over 0 and not over .25.
<0.25 mg/l of nitrate is safe. But do you really mean this? Not many
test kits are this accurate! Most seem to measure on a scale of 0-100
mg/l. Nitrite, on the other hand, is commonly measured between 0 and 1
mg/l.>
Is this enough of percentage of a water change each time?
<No. 50% per week, minimum.>
This tank also has a Bio Wheel and I added a small pouch of charcoal-
ammonia absorbent in addition to it's regular filter material.
<Well, bin the charcoal for a start. If this is an uncycled tank, then
you may as well use Zeolite (ammonia remover) exclusively. I'd
personally skip any sort of fancy filter for this. Just go with a plain
vanilla bubble-up box filter stuffed with Zeolite. Replace the Zeolite
every week. You can usually recharge Zeolite, so get two "batches", and
use one batch while recharging the other. There's absolutely no point
cycling a tank with Angelfish -- they will die long before the filter
bacteria come on-line.>
They've been healthy and lively and voracious eaters, but not overfed I
think. This morning I noticed one of the larger angels staying low in
the water near the heater. Tank heat is kept at 80 degrees. I have just
seen on your site that I should probably vary their diet more than I
have been doing. They've mostly been on flakes and freeze dried worms.
They ignored my attempts at adding an algae pellet though.
<Angels will eat anything... if hungry enough. They are easily overfed.
I'd use a mix of plain flake, Spirulina flake, and
live/frozen/freeze-dried insect larvae. Because they willingly gorge
themselves, you have to be careful not to put too much food in the tank.
One or two flakes per day is plenty for Angelfish this size. Since
they're young, feed perhaps twice per day. Do watch the nitrates though,
and try to keep below 20 mg/l and certainly no more than 50 mg/l.>
I went ahead did my regular 20-25% water change this morning, and by
this evening the lethargic angel was worse, lying or hovering near the
bottom seeming to gasp for air. The other fish were fine, acting
normally
and active except for one other large angel that seemed to be chasing
the other three away from the sick fish.
<Indeed. Angelfish are schooling animals when young, but become
territorial as they mature. All too often people end up with a single
big Angel that rules the tank.>
I did another water test and the levels were the same, Ammonia 0, Ph
around 7- 7.2 and the nitrates and nitrites 0. At about midnight my poor
angelfish died.
<Oh.>
There were no signs of any battering, discoloration in fins, skin, not a
mark, but I did notice a tiny speck of red near the outer edge of the
eyeball on both eyes, but in different placements. I'm totally baffled
as these fish were tank raised and extremely healthy from the minute
they arrived and showed no signs of any distress or illness whatsoever.
I've grown quite attached to them to the extent that I don't even want
to put them into the now healthy 55 community tank and would like to
upgrade to a 30 gallon tank for just them. I considered them so
"pristine" and didn't want to take any chances on them being exposed to
diseases.
<Quarantining new stock is always a good idea.>
What do you think happened? The only thing I can think of after all the
reading I've done is water quality and ammonia, nitrate or nitrite
poisoning, but that doesn't make sense with the readings I took. The kit
is fairly new, but I'm not exactly sure of the expiration date since it
was marked on the covering of the kit which I threw out a while ago. I
hope this is enough information.
<To be honest, I have no idea what precisely happened here. Sometimes
very young fish don't travel well, and one or two in the batch will die.
This is less of a problem with big fish because people tend to bag them
up sensibly. Profit margins on big fish are proportionally smaller, so
everyone along the distribution chain takes more care. But small fish
are often overcrowded. Individually each fish makes a proportionally
larger profit, so if a few die, it doesn't matter. Mass-produced fish
also tend to be produced for a quick sale rather than quality, and
there's free use of antibiotics by the farmers and wholesalers, and by
the time they arrive at your house these drugs have worn off and the
results of overcrowding become apparent. For now, I'd not blame
yourself, but simply focus on water quality and correct diet.>
Thanks for your wonderful site. It has the best tips, help and advice
I've found anywhere on the internet.
<Thanks!>
Thanks you in advance for any insight you can give me.
Polly
<Good luck, Neale.>Re:
Sudden angelfish death 11/25/2007
Neale,
<Polly,>
thanks for some answers to water quality, tank size and feeding. Good
advise.
<Cool.>
This morning the remaining 4 Leopards are still fine and looking
unaffected by whatever killed the other one. These fish came from a very
small breeder in Michigan and I was worried about them travelling when I
bought them via Aquabid, but they were well packed, double bagged and
in Styrofoam qt. size cups, with oxygen, a mild sedative and an ammonia
blocker and when I acclimated them to the QT they moved in and bounced
back like champs almost immediately. I think I was very lucky there. The
breeder/seller communicated with me and wanted to know how they arrived,
talked me through any questions about acclimation and general
appearance, behavior, etc. A good man who was into his fish, which he
bred himself, rather than the moola, I think.
<This is indeed the best way to buy Angels, and it sounds like you've
dealt with a very decent supplier. My comments were really more about
the mass produced fish farmed in Florida and Southeast Asia, primarily
for the low end of the market.>
So you think a 50% WC once a week is better than 25% twice a week?
<Yes.>
Not to sound dumb here, but why is it better?
<Many reasons. Primarily a question of dilution and reducing the effect
of acidification. So, your filter removes certain pollutants, but does
nothing about nitrate, phosphate, organic acids. These accumulate.
Nitrate is a known toxin to cichlids generally, being at least one of
the factors behind hole-in-the-head as well as a general lack of vigour.
Diluting by 50% each week is the cheapest, easiest way to get good water
quality. Works better than carbon for a fraction of the cost.
Acidification is something that happens in all aquaria. The longer the
interval between water changes, and the smaller those water changes are,
the more acidification takes place. This is one of the reasons why new
fishes put into an old tank sometimes fail: the existing fish have
adapted to the sub-optimal conditions, but the new livestock are
shocked. Again, water changes are the cheapest, easiest way to maintain
a steady pH.>
I never intended to use the angelfish to cycle the QT tank, just got
stuck because of the Ich in the 55. I've been looking around for a good
price on a 30 gal for them, but since I'm running a 30 with 7 female
Bettas and 5 Corys, the 55 community and two 10 gal with guppies in one
and 6 baby Pearl Gouramis in the other and three 5 gals with single male
Bettas I have to tread softly with my husband who is strictly a dog
person! lol
<Indeed! Perhaps keep Dogfish, so you'll both be happy. (Note to
Americans: a Dogfish is British vernacular for small sharks,
particularly Scyliorhinus spp., which for some bizarre reason Americans
called Cat-sharks!>
Also, do you think I should switch over to a sponge filter in the 12 QT
instead of the Bio Wheel? I have one spare hanging around.
<If both are being used as purely biological filters, then stick with
the one that is most mature. But in quarantine tanks, using a box filter
filled with Zeolite is invariably easier, cheaper, and more reliable
than any biological filter. You have a zero run-in time, and you can
sterilise it between uses.>
Thanks again, Polly
<Good luck, Neale.>
Re: Sudden angelfish death
11/25/2007
Neale,
<Polly,>
all makes perfectly good sense to me and thanks for the answers to my
questions.
<Good-oh.>
We always called those small sharks, Dogfish around here in Maine too
and they are nasty guys. Like to go for the bait in the lobster traps
and will follow the traps up while they are being hauled. Just hoping
for the bait or a nice fat Lobster to fall out I suspect. VBG
<Ah, I guess that's why they call New England 'New England'... because
you speak English rather than Americanese! And yes, ours steal food from
Lobster Pots too. They're actually pretty amazing animals. Live for at
least 30 years, and perhaps as many as 100 years. The eggs take 2 years
to hatch. Not something for the impatient aquarist!>
I will switch to a 50% WC in my tanks once a week from now on and just
rotate the days when each tank is scheduled, add to the diet for the
angels and follow your advise.
<Sounds good.>
I'm going to look into the Zeolite too.
<Yes, Zeolite is definitely a good idea in temporary tanks or any sort
of tank where you don't have time to mature the filter. Cheap and
effective, provided you start off with enough to deal with the ammonia
produced by your livestock.>
Thanks, Polly
<Cheers, Neale.>
Re: Sudden angelfish death
11/26/07
Neale,
<Paula,>
when it rains, it pours!
<Indeed?>
The Leopard Angelfish are still fine, but when I was doing the WC in the
Betta/Cory tank, I noticed that my largest Cory had some spots on him,
def. not ich or velvet. They appear to be oval-ish and are concentrated
on his spine and the base of the dorsal fin and tip of dorsal.
<Hmm... sure this isn't Ick? Do also cross off silt particles and air
bubbles. Both of these can stick to fish and be mistaken for parasites.>
I QT'ed him in the hospital/baby tank, promptly discovered that the Gold
Platy was starting to give birth, moved her into a breeding/bearing net
hung over the side of the community tank where she lives and went to do
some research on the internet to see what was up with the Cory.
<Not a great fan of breeding traps, so do take care not to stress her. I
prefer to use floating plants, and then remove the fry as they're
discovered hidden among the plants, either to a trap or to another
tank.>
It sounds like Epistylis from the descriptions given. Can't seem to find
any pictures that show it though. I went back and took a magnifying
glass and flashlight and checked him out and the spots are not ich-like
in appearance at all, not moving and one spot, near the end of the
dorsal fin, is tufted a bit. The other spots are oval, greyish-white in
color as well and as I said, concentrated in two or three areas. He has
a space missing on his tail fin, but no growth or spots on that area.
<Does indeed sound like Epistylis.>
If indeed it is Epistylis, do I treat him in the 2.5 gal tank with
something like Jungle fungus meds?
<I'd treat the tank with the anti-fungus medication of your choice.
Corydoras generally tolerate these medications well.>
Do I treat the Betta/Cory tank as well or just keep and eye on the
others and see if something develops?
<Treat the tank.>
I did noticed that some of the other Corys have a few ragged fins!
<Fins sometimes get ragged when Corydoras are mixed with aggressive or
nippy fish; otherwise can be a prelude to Finrot.>
I try and spend time each day sitting and closely looking over each fish
to see if there is anything different in their physical appearance or
behavior. Yesterday this sick Cory was just a tad underactive. Think
it's a female from the size and width of the body, but not positive. I
didn't notice any ragged fins on the others until today either.
You must think I'm a bad fish mamma at this point. Sorry to keep
bothering you.
<Don't worry about that.>
thanks, Polly
<You're welcome, Neale.>
BTW, the Platy has had three babies since I moved her and then stopped
giving birth. Stress from the move most likely. Babies look good.
<Good-oh.>
Re: Sudden angelfish
death -11/27/2007
Neale,
<Paula,>
Just went and looked at the Cory in the QT and the lesions/spots have
reduced in number, but some are still present. Are they going into
another reproductive phase, something like the ich spores do?
<No, I don't think so. Epistylis is a ciliate protozoan that mostly just
sits there on a fish. It's not a parasite as such; as I understand it,
it's more a fouling organism than anything else (i.e., like barnacles on
a boat).>
That brings up lots of questions in my mind, secondary infections etc.
but .... I then checked the Betta/Cory tank and three of the Corys have
no signs of fin damage, color good, very active and looking for food.
The fourth is looking a little lethargic, fins ragged and no spots or
lesions, nada, just out of sorts and not active or looking for food,
similar to how it started with the sick Cory. Should I haul him out into
the QT with the sick Cory and still treat the Betta/Cory tank as well as
the QT tank?
<Definitely treat both tanks with anti-Fungus/anti-Finrot. Trying to
target one particular fish is probably a waste of time here because the
pathogens are in the aquaria generally.>
BTW, Bettas are fine and active, eating, clear of anything on their
skin.
<Good.>
As of midnight last night, I did another 25% WC on the Betta/Cory tank,
bringing the total WC for yesterday to 50% on that tank. There was some
uneaten stuff and crud underneath an aquarium decoration and around the
roots of some of the heavier planted sections of the tank .
I removed the large decoration and tried to really clean up the crud,
for lack of a better description, and left the decoration out afterward
to make it easier to do WC in the event of doing treatments to the tank
for any length of time. Did a 50% WC to the QT tank as well.
<Good.>
As for the weapon of choice in treatment. Here's what I have in house
right this minute. Will any of these do any good? I have been trying to
buy meds every time I go to the LFS to have them on hand, but as you can
see I am still way under stocked on what I imagine are all the basics.
Ich Attack by Kordon, for ich, fungus, protozoans, and dinoflagellates
<Might work; Epistylis is apparently sensitive to Formalin and Malachite
Green.>
Ick Guard II by Jungle
<Ditto.>
Fungus Clear Tank Buddies by Jungle (tablets, 1 tab per 10 gallons)
<Won't fix the Epistylis, but will help with the ragged fins.>
Pimafix
<Useless.>
Melafix
<Useless.>
Bettafix
<Useless.>
Aquarium Salt
<Might help if used in the same way as for treating Ick, but not my
weapon of choice here.>
Erythromycin and another antibiotic...it's downstairs at the moment and
I forget, but I tried to get one gram positive and one gram negative
when I bought them.
<Useless. Antibiotics are for bacterial infections only.>
I do live on an actual island. No bridge, and therefore can't just pop
into town willy nilly. My husband is going to go over to the mainland
this afternoon and if there is anything he could pick up this would be a
good time. What meds should I have him get if none on hand are
appropriate?
<See above; you may already have the tools required. Check the
ingredients lists on the medications, or simply test them out. Epistylis
isn't doing the fish any direct harm -- the problem is that they open a
wound that can become infected, and furthermore that they occur at all
is a sign of middling to poor water quality.>
To sum up, still treat the Betta/Cory tank as well as the QT with a
fungus med? Move the second Cory exhibiting signs of Epistylis to the QT
, OR treat him in the Betta/Cory tank?
<Treat both tanks. There's no mileage in isolating diseases caused by
environmental issues, since all fish are likely subject. So treat all
fish up front to prevent further infections.>
Much thanks once again. You are very patient with all the questions and
problems I've thrown at you in just two days time. Let's hope the rain
stops pouring ASAP.
<It will.>
BTW Angelfish still fine.
<Double-plus good.>
Thanks, Polly
<Cheers, Neale.>
Re: Sudden angelfish death
11/28/2007
Hi Neale,
<Polly,>
well, I lost the first sick Cory in the QT .
<Too bad.>
I had started treating both tanks with the Jungle Tank Buddies for
Fungus as I hadn't heard from you and I thought I needed to do something
quick. (The time difference between us. ) I didn't go with the Kordon
Ich Attack as it doesn't contain anything but botanicals, no chemicals
like formalin or malachite green.
<This is a somewhat unwelcome trend: eschewing proven pharmaceuticals in
favour of ingredients that may be safer and less toxic if overdosed, but
are of questionable usefulness in some cases.>
I probably waited too long for the first sick Cory or he was traumatized
by the move and being alone as well. You know how Corys are. They look
like little tanks that can take anything, but they are so social.
<Indeed. With schooling fish it is normally best to treat the tank
rather than individual fish. Lone Corydoras don't necessarily die, but
it is one more stress factor on an already sick fish.>
I did a water test before I did anything to treat the 30 gal tank or do
the WC that brought me up to the 50% WC total, forgot to mention this
last post. Everything read as it should. Ph was between 7.2 and 7.6, I
have high PH normally from the well water, the ammonia was 0, nitrites
and nitrate 0 as well.
<All sounds fine. Corydoras are relatively indifferent to water
chemistry, and tolerate hard, alkaline water just as readily as soft,
acidic water. What matters to them is stability and quality more than
anything else.>
That didn't make sense to me since the problem is an environmental one,
so I did a test on the 55 and got the same results except the PH being
different from the 30. The 55 gal was at PH 7-7.2 and nitrate and
nitrite 0. Could the test kit be getting old and need to be replaced?
<Possibly. But it also important to remember that aquaria have a
background acidification process. So as soon as you put water into any
aquarium, it gradually becomes more acidic unless something acts to stop
that. The key factor is decay of organic material, which produces
organic acids, and these lower the pH. The speed with which the tank
acidifies depends on its size, its loading of fish, the amount of
organic matter (including plants and algae), the presence of alkaline
buffers such as tufa rock, the nitrate level, the ammonia level, the
amount of carbon dioxide, aeration, and the frequency of water changes.
In other words, no two fish tanks will acidify at the same rate, so it
is entirely possible that these two tanks will have very different
environmental conditions despite receiving the same type of "new" water
each water change.>
I bought it within the last month, but it was the last one for FW on the
shelf at the LFS and didn't know about expiration dates for tests.
Didn't check to see what the date might be and it was apparently on the
outer clear packaging cause I can't find it anywhere in the actual test
kit.
<Test kits can and do go "bad", but this is rare unless the kit is
extremely old. The chemicals are largely inert, and provided they are
stored somewhere cool and dark they should be stable for many years.>
Since I wasn't sure of the test kit's accuracy, I did a 50% WC on all
the other tanks that hadn't been done over the weekend, except the guppy
and baby tank (did 20% on that ) because that tank seems to always be
fine, totally knackered me, but done. I'm so completely paranoid now
about the other tanks that I see cilia and parasites in my sleep. lol
<Ah, the joys of fishkeeping.>
Obviously, my problems are directly linked to poor water quality and my
husbandry. My question ( will they ever stop you think?) is... are water
parameters not always linked with cleanliness, are the two not one and
the same?
<Interesting question. Most disease is directly or indirectly linked to
water quality and water chemistry. Provided those two factors are
appropriate to the fish being kept, the incidence of disease should be
very low. While disease can sometimes happen for other reasons, such as
genetics or the introduction of unquarantined livestock, at a first-pass
there's a lot of wisdom in assuming any unexplainable sickness was
caused by water quality and/or chemistry issues. Now, cleanliness can be
looked at two ways. Oddly enough, visible waste tends not to be a major
problem. Yes, decaying plant material and fish faeces contribute to
acidification, but "the wild" is full of decaying material that the fish
don't seem to be harmed by. Indeed, many fish, such as catfish and
loaches and cichlids, positively revel in the stuff, extracting
significant parts of their diet from the decaying material or
micro-organisms living therein. Invisible waste, on the other hand, is
the killer: nitrite and ammonia in the first league of dangers, and then
nitrate somewhere below them. On the other hand, regular water changes
undertaken to remove solid wastes in the tank invariably dilute the
invisible wastes, and a good mechanical filter with plenty of current
will not only remove solid wastes but like have plenty of space for a
good biological filter as well. So while the two things are not
identical, they do tend to go hand-in-hand as far as practicalities are
concerned. It's too simplistic to say a clean tank is a healthy tank:
after all, a brand new aquarium may look spotless and yet have high
levels of ammonia and nitrite because the filter isn't mature. But
established aquaria that are kept clean through water changes and
adequate filtration tend to have zero/low levels of ammonia, nitrite,
and nitrate as well.>
Can there be too much goop or pollution in the bottom of the tank that
never show up on a test kit's results and should water from testing be
from the lower regions of the tank? (why the Corys were the first
affected?)
<Not normally, no. But if the sediment at the bottom of the tank becomes
anoxic because it isn't regularly cleaned somehow, it can house bacteria
that can, in theory, cause problems. In practise this is an easy fix. If
you're using sand, for example, keep it thin and install some burrowing
snails (such as Malayan livebearing snails) which will aerate the sand
in the same way as earthworms on land. Catfish and loaches generally
like to dig and will keep sand very clean anyway. Gravel can be more of
a problem to keep clean (surprisingly to some) but when stirred once a
week at water change time cleaning gravel shouldn't be too difficult.>
Hypothetical question.....say the second sick Cory makes it and has some
open wounds from the Epistylis. Should I then treat the tank for
possible secondary bacterial infection problems?
<Yes.>
What would be the med of choice? If antibiotics, gram positive or
negative?
<I can't really answer this from experience, since antibiotics aren't
available to aquarists in the UK. But my expectation would be a product
such as Maracyn would be appropriate. Really anything to treat Finrot,
as that will get the Aeromonas/Pseudomonas bacteria likely the problem
here.>
The more I write, the more questions I have and the guiltier, to the
fish and you I feel. Is there a book you can recommend that I should buy
that you consider the best reference for fish disease and treatment?
<Many, many choices. I happen to like the 'Manual of Fish Health' by
Chris Andrews et al.>
Thanks Neale, You Da' Man,
Polly
<You're welcome.>
Angel fish fine, mother Platy ate the 3 babies, you are right about
breeding nets!
<Indeed. Trust me: floating plants work much better. Simply check the
tank once or twice a day and scoop out the babies as you see them. Any
floating plants will do. Even bunches of pondweed or algae. Plastic
plants even. The baby fish instinctively go into them, and the parents
tend not to notice them.>
Re: Sudden angelfish
death 11/28/07
Once again, thank you Neale for the detailed answers to my
questions.
They are extremely helpful and make me want to do more reading on water
chemistry, acidification, substrates, different types of filtrations
systems, aeration, etc. Lots more reading! VBG
<Very good! Once you understand the basics of water management,
everything else in fishkeeping is easy. But if you're muddled about
water management, then things become more dicey. An hour or two spent
reading around this topic is time very well spent.>
The second Cory is still with us and shows improvement. He never
developed the full blown growths on his body and after spending most of
yesterday on the bottom hiding in some plants, came out in the early
evening to hang out with the other three and actually start to actively
ferret around on the gravel for food.
<Good stuff. I find that once a sick fish starts feeding again, you're
almost always home free.>
On further examination of the hype on the Jungle Fungus Tank Buddies
box, it states that it also contains something to fight secondary
bacterial infections, but I will probably also treat with something else
for the fin damage that he displays. The other three Corys still seem
unaffected.
<I have never used that medication so can't speak from experience.>
The substrate in this tank is a combination of an under layer of
Fluorite with some gravel over it to keep the fluorite in place and make
cleaning easier. The fluorite is great for the plants, but I've found it
hard to deeply vacuum without causing major cloudiness.
<A problem with sand. The trick is not to vacuum. Instead, let the
catfish and plants and Malayan livebearing snails do the hard work for
you. Also lower the sand on one corner so detritus collects there. You
can then siphon or even pipette waste as required. Much easier.>
There is probably an inch of Fluorite and a 1/2" of gravel over it. In
our LFS it's is very hard to find small/ medium uncoated gravel for our
FW tanks.
<I sympathise. I tend to buy my substrates from garden centres. Easier
and cheaper, provided you choose smooth, lime-free sand or gravel rather
than, say, sharp sand.>
I like the Fluorite for the plants, but am not too sure I like the
substrate for the fish. I have just Fluorite in the 55 gal tank , about
1" deep. The Betta/Cory tank is running a Bio Wheel filter, minus the
media right now. I will be adding Zeolite, which my husband found for me
on his mainland trip the other day, to all the tanks.
<Zeolite is completely redundant on tanks that have biological filters.
Serves no purpose whatsoever other than wasting your money in these
cases. Zeolite is exclusively for tanks with no biological filter, e.g.,
quarantine tanks or tanks with strongly acid pH.>
I love planted tanks, but have decided that too many decorations such as
rocks, caves, artificial tree trunks, etc. are too hard to clean around
if not lifted at least every other time I do a WC, so have removed quite
a bit of the aquascaping add ons and will try letting the plants and
maybe one cave for the shy fish, suffice.
If you're finding too much silt and detritus, it is likely you have
insufficient water movements and/or mechanical filtration. In a tank
with complete circulation, there shouldn't be any solid waste on the
plants or gravel. Well, maybe a bit, but not enough to be unsightly. So,
do check water currents around the tank, and if required, add another
filter. If the bottom of the tank has poor water flow, this will mean
higher levels of ammonia and nitrite down there, and this could be a
factor for your catfish's ill health.>
I went to amazon.com to see if the Manual of Fish Health was available
and found there seems to be a revised edition. The Interpet Manual of
Fish Health by Andrews! I assume it is a revised edition anyway, and
will order it.
<My copy is from '88. It's a good book. Good level of science, but lots
of photos and charts explaining what's going on.>
As for snails......I had one hitchhiker on a plant and now have what
seems to be a million in the Baby/guppy tank, Yikes! No sure I want to
introduce them on purpose as I'm sure they will appear, as if by magic
in due time in the tanks they haven't yet. LOL
<Snails can be a mixed blessing, but do remember they turn waste into
snails. In a clean tank, their numbers tend to be very steady, and
removing them by hand works fine. Snail plagues almost always follow
over-feeding and under-cleaning.>
I'm cultivating a Java Moss like type plant in the baby tank and will
move some of it into a birthing tank. Will save those breeding traps for
brief isolation and examination purposes. VBG
<Enjoy the babies! Best bit of the hobby, I think.>
Thanks again,
Polly
<Bon chance, Neale.> |
Tropical fish disease... FW,
no useful data 11/15/07
Hi please help with a long term problem
we have variety of tropicals in a large tank, not overcrowded, water quality
consistently fine,
<Need values...>
plenty of plants doing well, Dry and live food given. Platies doing well and
unaffected by disease (several batches of babies) BUT other fish suffering from
sores often with white fibrous material in center also some have white material
in mouth and gills some become very bloated 12 fish have died in last 6months
Treatment with Medifin hasn't helped. Hopefully, Dot.
<... need data... re the set-up components, maintenance, what IS doing well
here, actually all livestock... Bob Fenner>
FW? Dis.? 11/13/07
hi my fancy tail has suddenly turned black and being bullied . it looks like
his tail has been eaten too. please help
<Hello Lisa. Fancy tail what? Guppy? Goldfish? Angelfish? Fish normally change
their colours to black when stressed, and the fact his tail is eroding would
suggest Finrot. I'd be checking the water quality before anything else in this
situation. So, let's have the name of the fish and some information on the
aquarium: it's size, the hardness, the pH, and a nitrite test result. Cheers,
Neale.>
Tropical Fish possibly sick?
10/3/07
Hello WWM crew,
<Hello!>
My boyfriend and I have gotten into aquariums within the last 3 years. I love
how peaceful fish are and there little personalities they all have. So of course
it really is a bummer to see them ill. (especially to think its probably due to
something we may have forgotten)
<Indeed.>
Problem #1 (26 Gal. Tropical tank-1 black molly, 2 blue dwarf gouramis, 3
Corydoras catfish, 1- Boesemanni Rainbow *temporarily until he gets to big* and
a female guppy) This problem is only with our dwarf blue gouramis and our
mollies. The mollies seem to have black speckles on them, very tiny ones, and
they are also flat...they don't seem to be raised. (and the older molly has a
cut on her nose (from our aggressive black molly...who is REALLY aggressive and
am beginning to think there's some sort of...problem? anyways, the cut on the
balloon mollies nose never healed. Its still bright red and seems to have gotten
even redder.) I've looked at many different bacterial infections, parasites, and
other information online. I can't seem to find out what it is, and I don't want
to treat for the wrong thing. Also the gouramis have dark spots on them but
these aren't like the "speckles" found on the mollies, these look more like dark
"patches" on the fins. The only thing I've heard on the black patches is that it
could be cancer? or nerve damage.
<Hmm... black spots can be caused my a variety of things. Cancer and nerve
damage are not among them though, or if they are, they've most unlikely. The
most common reason is the fish are infected by parasite worms (flukes). Long
term, it isn't anything to worry about, because once the worms try to move to
the next stage of their life cycle, they leave the fish. Because the life cycle
can't be completed in the aquarium, the worms die, and that's that. So for now,
simply monitor the condition of the fish, ensure they are eating properly, and
treat the water with something like anti-Finrot medication to ensure they don't
get secondary infections (which is what the red or grey patches most likely
are).>
Problem #2 (80 Gal. Tropical tank- 3 mollies, 2 platy's 2 pearl gouramis, 1 gold
ram, 1 blue ram, 2 Bolivian rams 2 emerald green Cory cats, 2 swordtails, 4
tiger barbs, 8 cherry barbs 3 bleeding heart tetras, 1 boesemanni Rainbow and 2
keyhole cichlids....)
This problem is driving me NUTS. We "adopted" the 3 bleeding heart tetras *whom
are doing very well* one of the emerald green Cory cats and the 2 keyhole
cichlids and ever since we put them in a few of our fish seem to be getting
sick.
The Emerald green has a curved spine...and I recently noticed that 2 of my
albino tiger barbs are now developing slight curves by the base of there tails.
I've been asking around and it seems it could be a mineral deficiency? I went
out to by the frozen foods and minerals that I was told, but I would LOVE to
hear what you think.
<Bent spines are very common. I have at least one peppered Corydoras with a bent
spine at the moment, and I've seen similar situations with halfbeak and cichlid
fry. Typically inbreeding (or at least bad genes) are at the root of the
problem, but trauma when the fish is young appears to cause similar problems. I
suppose diet could be a factor, but it's unlikely for something as omnivorous as
barbs and catfish. Usually, diet becomes a critical factor when specialist fish
are being kept, because they have adapted to eating a certain sort of food not
easily provided in the aquarium.>
I've read through your forums most of them) and spent many hours browsing,
trying to find tips or solutions. I'm really worried about my little guys, any
tips or info. you can provide would be much MUCH appreciated. The more
information I can get, the better homes the fish will have. I enjoy this hobby
as long as the fish stay happy :)
Thank you very much
~Crystal
<Well, I hope this helps! Neale>
Sudden dying fish advice! 10/3/07
Hi
<Hello.>
I hope you can help me, am a bit of a novice fishkeeper and after a promising
start am slight concerned about the goings on in my tank!
<Oh dear.>
I have a 35gallon freshwater aquarium, which I've had for three weeks (originally
my brothers and kept for 6yrs). It had 5 Malawi's and one Plec and I added
another 8 Malawi's, another Plec and 5 red claw crabs (about 2cm each).
<Red-claw crabs are brackish water animals, and shouldn't be kept in a
freshwater tank. They are also amphibious animals, and keeping them permanently
submerged is cruel. Kept properly, they are more like frogs, rooting about on
land, but dipping in the water to moisten their gills periodically.>
Everything was going fine but then in the last 24hrs both my catfish and the
alpha male (a 2.5inch blue zebra) of the tank have died!
<Check water quality when two fish suddenly die.>
I have checked all the levels and everything is normal.
<Define "normal". I'm assuming you aren't using brackish water, so the
conditions aren't normal for your crabs at least. More specifically, have you
tested the nitrite level? Also, what's the pH and hardness? Malawi cichlids need
fairly hard water to do well (at least 10 degrees KH, and a pH around 7.5-8). I
don't know what Malawi cichlids and plecs you are talking about, but 13
Pseudotropheus zebra and two common plecs such as Pterygoplichthys multiradiatus
simply cannot be kept in 35 gallons of water. There is no way water quality will
be acceptable for them all. Even a single common Plec needs around 50 gallons of
water, at least.>
My concern is that, could this be the work of the crabs and should I really get
rid of them? The shop said they could live together but now am not so sure
<Crabs shouldn't kill most fish, though they will certainly catch and kill very
small fish like guppies. But unless you are keeping them in a brackish water
vivarium with a sand-bank and wood for them to climb about on, then no, this
isn't an acceptable home.>
Advice would be most grateful as I don’t really want £80 stock all to die off!
<Indeed.>
Best regards,
Lester
<Lester, you need to sit back and review the aquarium conditions. A 35 UK gallon
tank is simply too small for all the fish you are keeping. What will happen is
that the fish will die, one by one, until the aquarium reaches its "carrying
capacity". You can delude yourself into thinking the aquarium is fine, but
Science doesn't work that way, and until the population reaches a sensible
level, fish will keep getting sick and die. For 35 gallons, you should be
thinking about, say, one or two Ancistrus Bristlenose catfish along with maybe
three cichlids (one male, two females). Nothing else will work in the long term.
Hope this helps, Neale>
Sudden loss of half of our fish, FW...
nitrate, nutritional deficiency effects likely 9/27/07
Hi,
We're (my 9-yr-old daughter & I) fairly new to the land of tropical fish keeping
(we started in January); I've read your website a lot and have learned so much,
and we wrote you a while back about a sick fish.
All had been going well with our aquarium for a couple of months, then in the
last few days we had 5 fish die. We are so sad. I'm hoping that if I describe
the situation, you might have some insight as to what happened/what we can do to
keep the remaining fish alive. I'd gotten some ideas from your website but I'm
really not sure what to think of all this.
We have a 12-gallon Eclipse system that has been cycled since last January (we
did fish-less cycling ?worked great), and we've had a few different inhabitants
along the way but we'd been stable for the past 3 months or so with:
5 platies, 3 danios (2 zebra, 1 leopard), 2 Otocinclus, 2 panda cories.
The tank has one Amazon sword plant that is not robust but sends out new baby
leaves and hangs on.
We do 25% water changes every 2 weeks; though we've only been siphoning the
gravel once a month, the other time we just change out the water).
<Mmm... a dangerous, too-changeable approach... Best to make more frequent,
smaller change-outs. Please read here:
http://www.wetwebmedia.com/FWSubWebIndex/fwh2ochgs.htm
and the linked files above>
We feed with a tropical fish flake food,
<Mmm, may want to mix in some more substantial fare... frozen or dried,
freeze-dried foods...>
and once a week or so an algae tablet. We had ended up with not an ideal
male/female ratio with the platies, 2 females and 3 males, and our oldest male
(a 1 ½ inch Mickey Mouse) was rather an alpha male when we added his 4 friends,
he chased everyone, but after a couple weeks they all seemed to get along with
minimal chasing.
A couple weeks ago, the platies starting dying, one by one; we have only one
left (the Mickey Mouse). The platies showed no sign of illness that we could see
(spots, growths), but, each time a couple days before they died, they stopped
eating. They would try to eat, but spit it out. Then they would start swimming
with fins clamped. They would lose that nice round platy shape, and die.
In the middle of this, one of the zebra danios got a really fat belly all of a
sudden and the next day it was dead.
<Yikes>
So, once this started happening, we did a water change
<How much and how?>
and started looking on your site. We have a test kit, our measurements were:
Ammonia 0, Nitrite 0, Nitrate 40.
<Much too high... You want to keep NO3 under 20 ppm>
Temp is 78. One other idea I saw was malnutrition ?
<Yes>
so I bought some frozen Emerald Entrée which has veggies in it as I thought it
possible they weren't getting enough veggies.
<Or protein>
I put an algae tablet in too, and the platies did go after that. They didn't
much go for the Emerald Entrée. Another idea I saw was internal parasites, but
as nothing new had been introduced in the tank I hated to just medicate without
some more of an idea of what it might be?
<Good>
I did add 1/8 tsp. salt which isn't much but I read that the cories don't
tolerate salt well.
<Correct>
So, we're very sad and I'm thinking we should've done something else but I don't
know what. From this description, can you offer an idea of what we might do at
this point?
<The nitrate, nutritional deficiency effects likely...>
The Mickey Mouse platy is looking very sad on his own, and the 2 remaining
danios are wildly chasing each other around ? I know we should not introduce any
new fish until we are stable again but we sure would like to not lose these guys
too. The oto's seem fine, they are a bit skittish but they always have been. The
panda cories are extremely shy, they will not come out if we are nearby and I
only get a glimpse of them every once in a while (like when we do a water change
and move the furniture to siphon) and they seem OK. Any ideas you have would be
appreciated.
Thanks,
Jana (and Jenny)
<Bob Fenner>
Re: sudden loss of half of our fish... FW
cycling 9/28/07
Thanks for your reply. We now have 2 different kinds of flake food, some
TetraMin crisps for tropical fish, the frozen emerald entree, frozen brine
shrimp, and the algae pellets. I hope a combination of these foods will be
better nutritionally for our fish. If you have any other suggestions they are
welcome.
<Posted...>
We will also start doing 2-2.5 gallon (17-20%) water changes once a week.
<Good>
How long do you recommend we wait before adding new fish?
<At least two weeks>
And, I know you recommend a quarantine tank; we have a 6 gallon Eclipse system
that a neighbor gave us when they moved, however it is currently dry except the
BioWheel has been kept in a jar of water and fed a couple drops of ammonia every
2-3 days. But I have no idea if the good bacteria would still be around on the
wheel -- is there a way to keep a BioWheel "alive" if we can't keep the tank set
up all the time?
<Mmm, well... they're "in the air"... will get there in time...>
That is a side question -- the main question is, if we set this tank up with
some gravel and water (how much water?)
<A gallon or two>
from our current tank and put the BioWheel in, are we likely to have a cycled
tank 'soon', or will we have to start from scratch with our fish-less cycling
schedule?
<Siphon some gunk out of the present tank, place it in the new... Will likely
instantly cycle>
We have a test kit so I can monitor for ammonia, nitrite, nitrate...
Thanks,
Jana
<Read on my friend... http://www.wetwebmedia.com/FWSubWebIndex/fwestcycling.htm
Bob Fenner>
Curved Spine TB? 9/11/07
Hi WWM Crew,
I've read and read and now have become confused. Is a curved spine a definite
telltale sign of TB or could it be a symptom of swim bladder disease or
something else? I have a convict cichlid. She is very tiny 2 inches at most.
She's about 3 years old. She was fine and a spunky little fish. There is another
adult pink convict (a male about 4 inches) in the tank who is sometimes a bully.
Most times they are compatible. They are in a 10 Gal. tank with water changes
every week. Yesterday I saw her floating on her side in a curled up position.
Her fins were moving and it seemed she was trying very hard to right herself.
When I noticed this I put her into a breeding net to keep the male away from
her. I didn't notice any visible signs of trauma. No bloating or bleeding or
missing scales/fins. I did a 75% water change and cleaned out the filter and
treated the water with Epsom salt. I didn't know fish could get TB until I
visited your site. She is very thin, no appetite and curling up as if in pain. I
feel really bad for her and want to ease her suffering. The male isn't showing
any signs of illness (yet). He keeps swimming past her outside the breeding net
though and she tries to move toward him. It's very sad. I am hoping you can help
me try to diagnose my little girl. Do you think it may be contagious and is it
possible the male will be infected too? Please help!
Thanks,
Maureen
<Hello Maureen. Just as in humans, physical deformities can be caused by any
number of reasons, and it's important not to assume that because something is
symptomatic of a particular diseases, that it's ONLY caused by that disease.
Also, Fish TB isn't the same thing as the TB humans get. Fish TB is caused by a
bacterium called Mycobacterium marinum, whereas human TB is caused by a number
of closely related species including the appropriately named Mycobacterium
tuberculosis. Fish TB is very uncommon in freshwater aquaria, and almost always
when freshwater aquarists blame fish deaths on Fish TB they're really making it
up and have no idea what killed their fish. A bit like those "internal
parasites" people mention for similar reasons, citing Fish TB amounts to nothing
more than a scapegoat alternative to actually admitting their tank was
overstocked, they used live feeder fishes, they didn't quarantine new stock, and
so on. In your case, you have a couple of problems that are likely factors. To
start with, a 10 gallon tank is not nearly big enough for convicts. I'm assuming
you're talking 10 US gallons (= 8 UK gallons, 38 litres). Even for a matched
pair of convicts you wouldn't be able to keep them in a tank that small. While
you might consider them to be small specimens, the fish don't know that, and
adults in the wild are anything up to around 15 cm long and defend territories
something of the order of 1-2 metres in diameter. Males are notoriously
belligerent to unreceptive females when kept under aquarium conditions. You have
to remember that evolution hasn't needed to come up with a "play nice" gene; in
the wild, if a female enters a male's territory but she doesn't want to breed,
she just swims away. In the aquarium, she has nowhere to go, and the male's
natural territoriality (which, in the wild, is a good thing by making him a
reliable father) ends up becoming destructive. It is entirely possible she's
received internal damage from being attacked by the male. You don't say anything
about water chemistry or quality either. Convicts need moderately hard to hard
water with a pH somewhere in the slightly alkaline range; pH 7.5-8, 10-20
degrees dH is what you're aiming for. Water quality needs to be excellent, as
just like any other cichlid, dissolved metabolites in the water do harm over the
long term. Water changes must be of the order of 50% weekly, and given your tank
is so tiny, I'd be doing two such water changes a week. Regardless, you're after
0 ammonia, 0 nitrite, and nitrates ideally 20 mg/l or less and certainly not
more than 50 mg/l. Finally, diet is an issue. Convicts are omnivores, and that
means you need to include green foods in their diet as well as flake or frozen.
Algae pellets and flakes are probably the easiest things to use, but tinned
peas, Sushi Nori, spinach, blanched lettuce, and so on can all be tried. Very
few cichlids don't eat greens in the wild, and for many it provides important
vitamins as well as fibre. You may want to send along a photo so we can better
diagnose your sick fish, but in the meantime, I'd encourage you to review some
of the factors mentioned above and act accordingly. Cheers, Neale>
Sick fish, FW 9/6/07
Hi
<Hello Kristi,>
I'm a novice with a new freshwater tank. As with most novices, I added
the fish before it cycled and are now working to get this done (with
Neale's guidance and encouragement).
<Very good.>
Here are current parameters:
20 gal freshwater ? been going for about 4 weeks (fish for about 3 of
them)
Temp 78 degrees F.
Gravel substrate, artificial plants moderately used, and couple of cave
decorations
Power filter ? just changed to Bio-Wheel yesterday along w/ adding
BioSpira pH 7.6, high alkalinity
Ammonia ? nil
Nitrite - ~ 1.5 (I know ? yikes. This is actually better than before and
I'm working on it w/ emergency water changes, BioSpira, sea salt for
short term decrease in toxicity, etc. A huge THANK YOU to Neale for
helping me on this!)
Nitrate ? 5.0 (still high, but better than before)
<Everything except the nitrite is fine. Nitrate of 5 mg/l is practically
perfect, and suggests you have very low (no?) nitrate levels in your tap
water. As for the nitrite, that's way over the red line, and you should
be doing water changes as often as it takes to keep it well below 1
mg/l, and ideally below 0.5 mg/l. Because you have zero ammonia, it's
apparent that the nitrosifying bacteria have become established, but
you're still waiting on the nitrifying bacteria. So you're about "half
way done" in terms of cycling.>
Inhabitants: Started with 1 MM platy and 1 dwarf Gourami about 3 ½ wks
ago (along w/ 1 swordtail and 1 sunburst platy ? both died). Added 5
glass fish, 1 ADF and 1 black molly about one week ago (none in QT?
didn't know about this). Let's say I was less than patient (along with
my 3 year old daughter) to get going on our new friends. All look great
except for smallest glassfish and the platy (symptoms described below).
<Hmm...>
Let's first state the obvious ? water quality is waaaaaaaaaay less then
optimal and is the most likely contributor to illnesses. Knowing that I?
slowly but surely working on this, I need your help to do some damage
control in terms of treating the illnesses of 1 glassfish and 1 platy.
<Well, the first thing is to simply do more water changes. It isn't
glamourous or high-tech like adding potions, but more than anything else
it improves fish health. It's kind of like human healthcare: to improve
your health across the board doesn't take a gym membership and bottles
of vitamins with breakfast, but simply things like walking instead of
driving and eating more fruit and vegetables instead of meat and starch.
There's no secret to keeping fish healthier either: more water changes =
healthier fish.>
The glassfish ? noticed white specks last night on the smallest of the
five.
The specks are about the size of table salt and suggested ich based on
WWM reading.
<Indeed. Very common in glassfish under poor water conditions. That
said, they can be relied upon to recover very quickly. Medicate the
water with a good quality treatment of your choice.>
However, the fish is otherwise fine? eating like a pig (literally) ?not
scratching against anything? not lethargic, etc. Today those specks have
clumped at the base of his fin which made me consider Lymph.
<Lymphocystis is very common in glassfish, especially ones that have
been dyed. In fact lymphocystis is really only found on "advanced"
freshwater fish that have evolved from marine ancestors, e.g.,
glassfish, cichlids, and gobies. It's almost never seen on "primitive"
freshwater fish without marine ancestors, i.e., catfish, characins,
barbs, etc. Now, it doesn't typically appear out of nowhere, and is
rather slow growing. So I'd assume it's whitespot by default, and treat
accordingly. If it is lymphocystis, as you probably realise this isn't
treatable, but does at least go away by itself. Lymphocystis is a viral
disease, but studies on wild fish have show that the trigger is poor
water quality. So again, improving water quality is the way to avoid
lymphocystis and, in part, fix it should it appear.>
I'm attaching a picture for your review. It may be hard to see in the
picture, but the largest spot on the base of his back tail fin is about
5 small specks clumped together. No other fish ? including the other
glassfish ? are showing ANY of these spots. Thoughts?
<It's almost certainly whitespot. Whitespot/ich is, well, white, whereas
lymphocystis tends to be cafe-au-lait colour and has a distinctive
texture often likened to cauliflower florets.>
The platy ? Continually getting bigger and bigger and bigger. I know
pregnancy is a possibility, but want to rule out bloat. Dropsy doesn't
seem to fit because her fins are not extended like a porcupine (see
attached picture).
<It's the scales, not the fins that extend, and it's like a pinecone
rather than porcupine. But regardless, I agree, not dropsy. Just fat,
really. Platies are very messed around with genetically, and in every
batch there seem to be some that, in some way or another, are mutants.
Provided the fish stays healthy otherwise, I'd ignore. Naturally, factor
out constipation by feeding more greens, and take care not to overfeed.>
She also eats like a pig ? including non-natural foodstuff like the
frozen blood worms meant for the glassfish and ADF. Her activity level
and mannerisms all seem normal. Constipation seems likely, but unsure as
to how to treat this given freshwater vs. marine tank. If this is the
case, than how can I get the ADF and the glassfish their blood worms
while keeping her away from them?
<Very difficult, but what I'd do is feed in the morning with only green
foods. The frog and glassfish will ignore. Use blanched lettuce,
squished cooked/tinned peas, Sushi Nori, algae wafers, livebearer flake
food, etc. Let the platies eat these. In the evening, feed the meaty
stuff.>
I've had a difficult time wading through freshwater vs. marine guidance
and need your treatment suggestions.
<Fundamentally very similar, especially for fish like glassfish and
platies that have evolved from marine ancestors. The only real
difference is that in a marine tank you need to use medications that
won't harm invertebrates, whereas this is rarely an issue in freshwater
tanks (snails are resistant to medications, and shrimps/crabs/etc are
rarely kept).
I am prepared to set up a hospital tank if need be, if suggested.
<Probably not required at this stage.>
Clearly I will convert from hospital tank to QT when adding our next
fish (plan on final add of a dwarf Bristlenose Pleco for algae control).
<As I've said elsewhere this week in the FAQs, fish don't control algae.
At best, they eat algae but at the cost of increasing the rate of algal
growth. At worse, they simply increase the rare of algal growth
dramatically. The only thing that "stops" algae are fast growing plants.
They do this through one of two things, allelopathy and by removing
nutrients from the water faster than the algae. No-one really
understands the mechanism, but it seems to have evolved to allow plants
to remain algae free in the wild (which, largely, they are). Cabomba,
Hygrophila, Vallisneria etc are what you want. Things that grow so fast
(under good light) you're trimming them back weekly. Under such
conditions, tanks stay remarkably algae-free. All that said,
quarantining Loricariid catfish is an excellent idea. Wild-caught
specimens especially arrive rather emaciated, and giving them optimal
conditions and plenty of food is the best way to ensure their success in
captivity. Once fattened up, they can then be placed in the community
tank.>
If the glassfish warrants a treatment tank, would I just transfer him
and hope his loneliness won't negatively affect him further?
<Yes, but I don't think you need to. For whitespot, you have to treat
the tank, not the fish. Indeed, you can't treat the fish -- the parasite
isn't killed by the medication. Only the free-swimming infective stages
are killed by the medication, and they're in the water and on the
gravel. If it's lymphocystis then obviously no treatment is required or
possible.>
Or would I transfer the whole school?
<No.>
In terms of a hospital tank, the smallest I can get away with the better
(budget wise). I know 10-gal is ok, but could I get away w/ a 5-gal? Or
would the water quality in a non-cycled 5-gal be too variable?
Suggestions?
<In US gallons, it would have to be a 10 gallon tank. A 5 gallon tank
would just be too difficult to keep constantly good. There's really no
mileage to having an unsafe, unhealthy quarantine/hospital tank, for
obvious reasons.>
Thanks for your help!!!!
Kristi
<Hope this helps, Neale> |
|
|
3 dead 1 left... FW trbleshtg...
9/3/07
Hello,
<<Hello, Lxxx. (Interesting name, by the way. :) ) Tom here.>>
We bought some fish about a month ago.
<<What type of fish?>>
We’ve treated the water for a week before we bought them and had the water
tested by the pet store.
<<Treated the water how? The vast majority of “cycling” products found in stores
are of questionable effectiveness at best. (There’s some evidence that, contrary
to what we’ve believed in the past, there are bacteria (Nitrospira) contained in
these products that do, in fact, deal with nitrites, as well as those dealing
with ammonia, but only because these are “naturally occurring” bacteria and are
contained in the product far more by accident than by design. By bacterial
standards, these bacteria reproduce extremely slowly, however, and the
populations of the bacteria can’t be guaranteed from one container to the next.)
Recognize, too, that early in the cycling process ammonia may be undetectable
with our common test kits. This may give the false impression/indication that
all is well when, in fact, the process has yet to really begin.>>
I hoover the tank every week, but still we’ve lost 3 fish. Each one’s dorsal fin
has gotten flat then they become sluggish and die.
<<Too little information for me to be very specific on the cause for this other
than to suggest to you that the behavior is indicative of poor water conditions
and/or quality. This doesn’t necessarily mean that the water’s “bad” but it may
not be right for your fish.>>
We have three real plants in the tank. I can’t see any spots or fungus on the
fish. There is also a shoal of the little fish in the tank!!!
<<Well, now you’ve given me a little to work with. Almost certainly you’ve got
livebearers of some type (Platys, Swordtails, Mollies, Guppies, et. al., fall
into this category) at least one of which is/was a female. Fish in this group
require relatively hard, alkaline water conditions. (Mollies are a brackish
water species requiring still a different environment.) Without knowing what the
current ammonia/nitrite, nitrate and pH levels are (hardness would be another
good reading to have), nothing I can offer to you would be more than a wild
guess on my part.>>
Please help. I don’t want this one to die and its fin is starting to
deflate!!!
<<The best generic approach I can suggest is to stay on top of water changes.
From what I can gather, the problem is largely, if not completely, environmental
which can be addressed with these changes. Change out at least 50% of the water
a couple of times each week. In the meantime, get yourself a test kit so that
you know – without relying on the sometimes questionable results that the pet
store may give you – exactly what’s going on in your tank. I understand that
you’re very concerned here and likely wrote to us in a hurry but we need some
detailed information the next time. Type of fish, tank size, type of filtration,
heater (if any), water temperature, type(s) of food you’re providing and, most
especially, the exact water parameters. I specify “exact” here because ‘good’,
‘fine’, ‘safe’, ‘within limits’, etc., are too subjective to be of any real use
to us. What certain fish may be able to tolerate over a brief period of time
might kill others in short order.>>
Many thanks
Lxxx
<<Well, I don’t think I’ve been able to give you much more than a place to start
but if you’d like to write back with the information I’ve suggested, perhaps I
can be of more assistance. Cheers. Tom>>
Fish rubbing on rocks - a sign of something
other than disease? 7/25/07
Hello WWM,
<Didi...>
I have another question, unrelated to the fish disappearances :) The question is
about the same fish - molly, 2 swordtails and a guppy in the 3 gallon tank. I've
had them since February, and they haven't been sick yet (except the latch-on
worms that the molly came with from the store... but we got rid of those early
with CopperSafe).
<Mmm, Lernaea? Not treatable with such>
Anyway, so my fish have been healthy and happy and I've never seen them rub on
rocks for any reason. However, recently I decided to make their life a bit more
interesting and changed the decoration. I took them out, cleaned the tank
<Describe this process... Not too thoroughly I hope>
and put in new rocks, shells and plants, organized in a different way. I put the
fish back in (with a portion of the old water, to keep the bacteria and
everything). At first the fish looked confused, not recognizing their home. Then
they started exploring the new decorations, and vigorously rubbing themselves
against everything - rocks, shells, even the plants. All of the fish did that
for a while.
They would approach an object, look at it for a moment and with a swift motion
rub the side of their body against it. They weren't exhibiting any signs of
illness - no white spots or patches on their skin, no worms, etc. They did the
rubbing for a while that evening, and by morning the next day they were fine
again. That was several weeks ago.
They haven't rubbed since, and none of them has gotten ill. They look as
healthy, active and stupid as always :D
<Trouble with all the too much, too soon changes here... Very likely you've lost
bio-cycling...>
My question: is rubbing a sign of anything else, that is not a disease?
<Can be indicative of a few challenges... though some rubbing is "natural">
If those were cats, I'd assume they're marking a new territory, hehe, but who
knows what fish mean with it... The marking is the only thing I can think of.
Please let me know.
Thanks,
Didi
<Please read here: http://wetwebmedia.com/FWSubWebIndex/fwestcycling.htm
and the linked files above. Bob Fenner>
Re: Fish
rubbing on rocks - a sign of something other than disease?
Wasting time... 7/28/07
Hi Bob,
<Didi>
I've mixed in my replies with the previous message:
>I have another question, unrelated to the fish disappearances
:) The question is about the same fish - molly, 2 swordtails and a
guppy in the 3 gallon tank. I've had them since February, and they haven't
been sick yet (except the latch-on worms that the molly came with from
the store... but we got rid of those early with CopperSafe).
><Mmm, Lernaea? Not treatable with such>
--> no, ours were tiny, fat white worms. Lernaea are long and
thin, and darker in color. Anyway, one of the fish experts at
our PetCo has 30+ years of experience and knows a lot;
<I built their program in the early nineties before the first
time the co. went public...>
he looked at the fish and said CopperSafe would kill the worms
it had (CopperSafe should kill anything that's invertebrate).
<... no... Please... don't waste our time writing... Read a
reference book or two... You attend college? They have a life
science dept. I take it...>
The latch-on worms never came back. I occasionally see Planaria
worms crawling on the glass, but that's all.
> Anyway, so my
>fish have been healthy and happy and I've never seen them rub
on rocks
>for any reason. However, recently I decided to make their life
a bit
>more interesting and changed the decoration. I took them out,
cleaned
>the tank
><Describe this process... Not too thoroughly I hope>
--> Okay, the process. With this small tank, I do 1/3 water
changes
every week. Then once a month I take everything out, rinse the
tank,
gravel and shells with just water (scrubbing the nasty layer of
algae
off the walls and washing the mountain of crap out of the
gravel),
reassemble and let the fish back in with about half of the old
water +
half fresh water with conditioner, plant enhancer drops and a
bit of
salt. With the bigger tank hopefully I won't have to take
everything
out, but this small one gets very dirty very fast. I got a
"gravel
vacuumer" hoping to be able to suck the waste out of the gravel
instead
of taking the gravel out and rinsing it, but it doesn't work
with such a
small tank. By the time I've vacuumed a third of the bottom,
I've
already sucked almost all the water out of the tank. With the
large tank
there's more water and I'll have more time to clean the entire
area, so
I won't have to take the gravel out.
<Please see WWM re... FW maint... I would not switch out this
much water...>
> and put in new rocks, shells and plants, organized in a
>different way. I put the fish back in (with a portion of the
old water,
>to keep the bacteria and everything). At first the fish looked
confused,
>not recognizing their home. Then they started exploring the new
>decorations, and vigorously rubbing themselves against
everything -
>rocks, shells, even the plants. All of the fish did that for a
while.
>They would approach an object, look at it for a moment and with
a swift
>motion rub the side of their body against it. They weren't
exhibiting
>any signs of illness - no white spots or patches on their skin,
no
>worms, etc. They did the rubbing for a while that evening, and
by
>morning the next day they were fine again. That was several
weeks ago.
>They haven't rubbed since, and none of them has gotten ill.
They look as
>healthy, active and stupid as always :D
><Trouble with all the too much, too soon changes here... Very
likely you've lost bio-cycling...>
--> I cleaned the tank just as I had done every month, and as I
described above. The fish never reacted this way before though.
The only
difference now was that I had new shells and two new plants
(same
gravel). The fish never rubbed after cleaning sessions before.
<Tapwater is not a consistent product... could be that your
livestock were poisoned with sanitizer...>
Seems
like they were reacting to the new decoration itself. What I
noticed
before is that they were aware of the particular decoration I
had in the
tank before, and after putting them back in after cleaning, they
recognized the tank as the same space (I put the decoration back
exactly
as it had been) and knew they were at home. They would return to
their
usual sleeping places, feeding places, etc. What threw them off
was the
change of setting - the familiar rocks were gone, so now it
looked like
they were in a new space. That's how I explain it. The parts of
the tank
that are in the same locations, like the filter tube and
cascading
water, they recognized right away. I used to always feed them
right in
front of the cascade (so the water can spread the food around),
and when
I leaned over the tank after the big move-around, they all swam
up to
the cascade in a cluster and started vacuuming the surface in
search of
food.
Anyway, my point is that fish have a memory for landmarks as
they need
to navigate in the water in the wild, so in this case they must
have
interpreted the change of landmarks as a change of location
altogether,
and acted confused because they were in unfamiliar territory.
<Possibly got used to it though, and now they're not rubbing
anymore.
With that in mind, I still wonder if the rubbing was indeed a
response to the change of scenery, and if, behaviorally
speaking, the rubbing has a particular message and purpose.
Let's assume that it's not a matter of health, because none of
them have gotten sick or exhibited any signs of weakness or
dullness. Is there a behavioral explanation?
<Interesting... but I know naught>
>My question: is rubbing a sign of anything else, that is not a
disease?
><Can be indicative of a few challenges... though some rubbing
is "natural">
>If those were cats, I'd assume they're marking a new territory,
hehe, but who knows what fish mean with it... The marking is the
only thing I can think of.
>Please let me know.
>Thanks,
>Didi
><Please read here:
http://wetwebmedia.com/FWSubWebIndex/fwestcycling.htm
>and the linked files above. Bob Fenner>
--> I read the article, thanks. I am in the process of
establishing the environment in the big tank now, by using the
old shells and gravel from the small tank + a small school of
zebra fish for a start. It's been cycling for more than a week
now. The small tank was already established though, and whenever
I had to clean the walls and rinse the mountain of crap out of
the gravel, I put at least half of the old water back after
that.
<Good>
Including in the case of the new decorations when the fish did
the rubbing...
<Ok! RMF>
FW, fish don't last... Can Neale hold on!?
7/2/07
I recently started a new 5 gallon fish tank with a bio filter. I started
with 5 fish but now I'm down to one. They all do the same thing, they lay on the
bottom of the tank with their gills and mouths opening and closing. I added an
air pump after the first four died. HELP!
<Greetings. For a start, 5 gallons is a very small aquarium, so keeping fish
healthy in there at all will be difficult. Not impossible, but difficult. The
bigger the tank, the easier. For beginners, a 10-20 gallon tank is a better
starting point. Anyway, the reason the fish are dying is that the filter is
immature. The fish produce ammonia, and without a biological filter that works,
the ammonia accumulates and kills the fish. It takes about 4-6 weeks for a
biological filter to go from zero to established, and a few weeks more for it to
be really stable and 100% effective. The easiest approach is to grab a quarter
to a half the filter media from an established tank's filter, stick it in the
new filter, and then add a small number of fish. With luck, the "old" media will
work straight away and colonise any new filter media in the filter, and jump
start the whole cycling process. (Don't worry about the filter in the
established tank -- mature filters will colonise new filter media almost at
once, so apart from cutting down the food a little for a few days, there's no
risk involved.) Have a read of this excellent article on "Your First Aquarium",
here: http://www.wetwebmedia.com/FWSubWebIndex/fwset-up.htm . Then read this
article on Cycling aquaria:
http://www.wetwebmedia.com/FWSubWebIndex/fwestcycling.htm . Hope this helps!
Cheers, Neale>
Help my fish is dying - I can't help without more
useful information! –
6/12/07
I have a Plecostomus floats on its side.
<Not a good sign. How long has this been going on?>
The tail fin is either nipped off or deteriorating off.
<None of the fish you mention would below would likely cause this sort of
injury (although I'm not sure what a "small ground feeder" is...); I'd be
willing to bet this is tail rot, a condition typically caused by poor water
quality. Have you used a quality liquid test kit (Aquarium Pharmaceuticals
and Tetra both make good products) to measure the levels of ammonia, nitrite
and nitrate in the water? The former should be at zero, while the latter can
safely be as high as 20 ppm (though lower is better). How large is this tank
and how often do you do water changes? What type of filtration is running on
the tank? I need lots of information to be able to help you/your fish...>
I have added three neon fish and a dojo fish to my tank that all ready had
come with the Plecostomus another small ground feeder that has never changed
sizes for the last three years and another fish not sure what it is. I
haven't had any problems with them until I added this dojo and neons. What
should I do?
<Test your water for starters. Most fish illnesses and diseases are caused
by poor water quality; remedying this underlying environmental cause often
times will solve the problems. However, I can't say for certain without
additional information; see questions posed above. In the meantime, start
reading: here's a good place to begin -
http://www.wetwebmedia.com/FWSubWebIndex/fwsetupindex.htm
Best regards, Jorie>
Thanks Cassi
FW crashing.. but numbers look good. & |
