Mixing naturally hard well water with softened well water FW System: Water Quality 5/22/2009
Hi!
<Hello, I must apologize in advance for the delay in responding. Things have been a bit crazy here in FL>
I have a 10 gallon, well cycled, freshwater tank, holding several neon Tetras, a couple of small Mollies, a Dwarf Gourami, a Powder Blue Gourami, and a small Pleco.
<Very overstocked for a 10 gallon.>
It has been running on our tap water, fresh well water, for years. It used to house my sons goldfish but 2 months ago I replaced them, now, very large goldfish with the fish mentioned above. (The goldfish is now happily in a pond) The water is off-the-charts hard and so is high in alkaline, but otherwise the water was testing safe for nitrites, nitrates, and no ammonia. I vacuum the gravel once a week and do a 30% water change at that time.
<Very Good>
My fish have been healthy (except for a case of ich) and their color has been beautiful. I had to treat for ich about 3 weeks ago which I'm assuming resulted from a new live plant addition, water and all;
<That, and over crowded conditions helped it to spread.>
I know better now not to add the water when adding fish, etc. It cleared up in about a week, after which I changed the filter.
About a week ago we had a water softener system installed because our water is so hard. Four days ago I set up my second aquarium, a 29 gallon tank. We filled it with the tap water, now softened well water.
<Softened water is very bad for aquariums. Do read here:
http://www.wetwebmedia.com/FWSubWebIndex/fwh2oquality.htm >
I used about a gallon of water from my old tank in the new tank to help kick start the cycling and after 24 hours I added two of my small mollies.
<The mollies would have been happier in the higher pH hard water.
http://www.wetwebmedia.com/FWSubWebIndex/mollies.htm >
The ammonia immediately elevated slightly but has not exceeded the alert stage and has remained stable at slightly elevated.
<Ammonia levels of anything greater than 0 are bad.>
The PH is in "the red" but not at max on the test kit (it's a dip strip kit).
<Dip strips are not very accurate.>
Alkaline is low, in the very soft range. Nitrites and Nitrates are safe.  Water is a little cloudy but clearing. I have several live plants, and some seashells and a very old conch shell, all of which were boiled for 10 minutes and scrubbed with plain water and a toothbrush before going in the tank. I also have a white lace rock in there, (Won't the shells and the rock help to elevate the alkalinity some?)
<A little bit.>
and natural aquarium gravel, and your average aquarium decorations. After 48 hours I put the Powder Blue in there because he was getting harassed by the Dwarf and I thought there might be less stress in a new cycling tank than being
harassed in a crowded tank.
<Between being picked on or living in toxic water, I would take getting picked on.>
He's hanging in there.
<good.>
My problem is with the water. I still have access to the original hard well water and I obviously have access to softened water. Thinking that the softened water would be better than the hard water, I have been slowly adding the new softened water to the old tank as it evaporates, and after I removed some for the new tank, and now the Dwarf is losing some of his color and becoming listless. For hours I have been researching on the internet the benefits and pitfalls of hard water
versus soft water, the effects of seashells and rocks, and peat, and extra filters, and on and on...I think if my fish are bright and healthy regardless of the high PH and Alkalinity, I should continue using the original natural well water.
<Much better than anything coming out of the softener. Read here:
http://www.wetwebmedia.com/FWSubWebindex/fwsoftness.htm>
How do I, or should I, switch the new cycling tank from the softened to the natural water?
<Water changes, a gallon or two at a time.>
Or, my final option, if I mix my reserve gallons with half hard/half softened and let them sit to use for water changes, would that give me my best choice of water?
<No, anything coming out of a softener is not good for fish.>
Thanks!
<Mike>

FW Chemistry - GH & KH, pH shift of tap water. 5/20/2009
Hello, Neale (or whoever is present)
<Hello, Mike here.>
It seems I am about to trouble you again with an entirely different problem. At least I want to know whether or not it may become a problem. I haven't tested my tap water source for a couple of years because it was always the same (except for a spike in nitrates one autumn two or three years ago).
<If you are using tap (mains) water for your aquarium, you should get into the habit of checking it before you add it to the tank. Tap water can vary daily depending on weather, seasons, etc. I learned this the hard way when the tap water I added had 1ppm of ammonia in it out of the tap.>
Otherwise, it was hard : pH 8.4 or 8.5 and both GH and KH requiring 18 or 19 drops using the Hagen liquid test kit. All I really understood from that is that I had a very high mineral content including carbonate hardness which would keep conditions stable once fish were adapted to the water but might pose a problem for species that required soft water for breeding purposes or were not sufficiently flexible to adjust to these readings.
<This is correct.>
This spring, my tapwater reads pH 7.2 to 7.4 (different days). GH (Hagen) requires 20 drops but KH requires 1 or 2 drops. (Apparently we are
receiving water from a different source.)
<Unlikely, probably changed something at the water treatment plant.>
In other words, I have a very significant drop in pH, general hardness remains about the same (very hard) but virtually 0 carbonate hardness.
Now what? Should I be taking steps to stabilize this water?
<Depends on what it is you are trying to accomplish. - what is in the tank? You now have hard water with little buffering ability, which can make your
Ph unstable.>
Interestingly, although I have been doing water changes with this water, my newly set up tank has a pH of 7.4 but an old established
tank is holding at 8.2 although it's KH is in the same range as the tap water. Am I about to face a radical change here? If so, can/should I
prevent it from happening?
<Again, it depends on what is in your tank. Your livestock may actually prefer a pH of 7.4. Without knowing what you have, it is impossible to
tell.  Do read here for some hints:
http://www.wetwebmedia.com/FWsubwebindex/fwh2oquality.htm >
I don't know whether this is pertinent or not but perhaps I should mention that the nitrate level of this water is also at absolute 0. Heretofore, that is in past years, nitrates varied a lot but never were they 0.
<Not really pertinent, but nitrate free tap water is uncommon and welcomed.>
Possibly some part of my confusion stems from the fact that I can envisage the origin of hard, basic water with high mineral content or soft, neutral water with few minerals or even acidic water with tannins or whatever but I cannot conceive of how this water came to be or what it can mean to the stability of my aquariums.
<If you are trying to keep the pH up and stable, you will need to add some sort of buffer. Please see the page I referred you to and the linked pages
at the top.>
Rosemarie
<Mike>

Re: Water Chemistry - GH & KH, pH shift of tap water. 5/21/2009
Hi Mike:
<Hi Rosemarie>
I had already read that before I wrote. I couldn't tell whether any part of it applied to me or not.  My fish are various freshwater tropicals- tetras, swords, Botias, barbs, rainbows, Farlowellas, angelfish, guppies, Corys, gouramis,
shrimps, banjo cats, Plecos, etc.
<So an average pH of 7.x would be better overall.>
In both some old established aquaria and a couple of new ones. Many of them are hybrid varieties bred and raised in the water as it was - not as it is now.
<Bringing the pH down slowly will be fine.>
I think I will be checking more regularly from now on.
<Is always best to regularly check your source water.>
Should I have been doing 40% water changes with so radically different a chemistry?
<I wouldn't, but since you already have, and there appear to have been no ill effects, I wouldn't worry too much.>
What is the likelihood of a 'pH crash' with concomitant loss of fish?
<With regular maintenance and water changes, not at all.>
Would regular water changes be sufficient to prevent it from happening?
<Yes>
Having read about this but never experienced it, I have no idea of the degree of risk to my own tanks.
<Minimal with good maintenance.>
Should I attempt to boost carbonate hardness - maybe with baking soda but minus the Epsom salts and marine mix since other general hardness remains already extreme?
<That or add some crushed coral to your tank. Will accomplish the same thing.>
Or would I need to use all three. If so, what ratio would be best to begin with?
It does sound more like something created in the water treatment plant.
Are there any other minerals that it could be significant here - either too high or too low; questions I should ask the water supplier, perhaps.
<Personally, I would be surprised if they noticed the change.>
Not sure how there can be such heavy mineral content and low pH. Where do all the ions go?
<Ahhh... depends on the ions. Hard water does not always mean high pH.>
Would prefer to keep pH in the 7.5 range as this is more acceptable to a wider variety of fish but really want the dependability of stable water.
<7.5 with the right KH and GH will be very stable. I keep my planted FW tank between 7.5 and 7.8>
<Mike>

Re: FW Chemistry - GH & KH, pH shift of tap water. 5/21/2009
Mike:
<Hi Rosemarie>
Perhaps my questions sound rather inane or the result of carelessness on my part. My apologies if so.
<No apologies are necessary>
I appreciate WWM and the information it provides and have read your articles analyzing the good or ill of various types of water
<On behalf of Bob and the rest of us, thank you.>
But, you see, we have lived in this area for over 45 years with no appreciable change in water - always infamously hard and basic but dependably consistent and I have no idea how this sort of abrupt change would impact on established planted tanks or what sorts of changes I should make in maintaining tanks, new or old, with this sort of water chemistry.
<Your concerns are understandable. It always amuses me how aware people who keep aquariums are of what is coming out of their tap as opposed to those who don't. My neighbors wonder why their shower heads get filled with crud. I KNOW why, down to the parts per million.>
If I am over-reacting, please feel free to tell me so.
<Not at all, no worries!>
<Mike>

Re: mixing hard and softened water Now stocking. FW Stocking. 5/22/2009
Hello again,
<Hi.>
Coming from a different e-mail address, I know. Today I have actual test result numbers and a couple more questions. Hope you update soon.
<Ahh... very good.>
I vacuumed the 10 gallon tank and added 1 ½ gallons of the natural hard well water. My Dwarf Gourami seems to be doing well again. The PH is now 8.4, Alkalinity above 300 (which is normal for this tank) 0 Chlorine, very hard at 300 (also normal), 0 Nitrites, Nitrates up a bit at 30. ) Ammonia at safe as always. Tank is a little crowded but everyone is getting along well. Hope to move the Dwarf into the 29 gallon soon.
<Sounds good, things will get a little better once you give everyone some space. Your pH is still a bit high, you may want to mix it with some reverse osmosis water to bring the pH down a bit.>
Day 5 on the new 29 gallon softened water tank. (want to be clear that it is not a soft water tank)
<Got it.>
PH is 8.2, Alkalinity at 120, 0 Chlorine, soft at 75ppm, Nitrites 0, Nitrates at 10, (hoping the live plants will help with this) Ammonia down slightly from .05 to .03. Mollies and Powder Blue Gourami doing well.
<Any ammonia is toxic to fish.>
I am obviously new at this so I would like your input on my fish choices for the 29 gallon (after I get the hard/softened issue resolved). I am going for the look of saltwater fish without the expense and difficulty of the tank, hence the Powder Blue and Dwarf. I'd like 2 Powder Blues, a Dwarf, 2 gold Mickey Mollies, and 1 Creamsicle Lyretail Mollie to start.
<I must confess I am not a fan of Mollies in an all FW system. They typically do much better in a brackish water or even a saltwater tank.  That said, your water is essentially liquid rock, which is likely why you are having success with them.>
I love the color and flowy fins in Congo tetras, and I really would like a large school of something silver (I love the silver dollars, but out of the question; perhaps I'll have to settle for Black Neon Tetras)and I like Silver Hatchet fish. The problem with the Congos and Hatchets is a minimum of 6 each is recommended and there goes what space I have! Do you think that 5 Congos and 3 Hatchets would be content?
<Likely so.>
The other problem is that these are all mid to top dwellers. I also want to put some Ghost Shrimp in, and will probably need a Pleco or some other Algae Eater. I'd love to have a Violet Goby Dragon curled up under my driftwood decoration. I also saw a Blue Rainbowfish and I really love the color but am afraid he won't get along with my gentler choices, and he also sucks up 4 inches all by himself,
<All I have in my FW tank is rainbows - They are actually quite peaceful, but need room to swim.>
although I like the interest that the larger fish would add. Have also considered Opal or Blue Gourami for this. Given these preferences, what do you think would give me the result I'm looking for, and how many of these choices can I fit, considering 7 inches of fish will be Labyrinths. (Doesn't that make a difference?)
<No, seven inches of fish is still seven inches, regardless of how they breathe.>
I want to choose wisely because I want to enjoy the full beauty and de-stressing benefit of my tank. (mollies have dirty waste habits I'm not fond of and little things like that will make or break a choice).
<Smaller, peaceful, schooling fish would do better here.>
I think that's it for now. I love that I found this site, and you guys are great to do this. So much info it's overwhelming. 'A little knowledge' you know what they say. Maybe for me less is more.
<Never, keep reading and learning. Try to learn something new every day.>
Thank you.
<My pleasure>
D in Pittsburgh PA
<MikeV, currently in Montreal Canada>

Water Chemistry, FW, bewared home water softeners!  5/5/09
I have well water that has a PH of 8.2, however, I have my water for my house on a softening system.
<Do not ever use water from a domestic water softener in a fish tank. Most reputable water softener installers will tell you this, alongside also telling you not do drink the softened water. Domestic water softeners don't "soften" the water in the way aquarists mean it; all they do is replace the limescale-causing salts with sodium, and the resulting sort-of-soft but saline water is just horrible for fish.>
Thus the problem is that I have a high PH but soft (GH/KH) water.
<Use the drinking water tap, which should be unsoftened. If your water is "liquid rock", there's really nothing wrong with that. Sure, you can't keep Neons, Ram cichlids and other soft water fish -- but there are plenty of fish that *prefer* rock-hard water! Start with the Livebearers, either the regular kinds (Guppies, Platies, etc.) or the more unusual ones if you need a challenge (Limia, Ameca splendens, Xenotoca, etc.). Rift Valley cichlids as well as all Central American fish (including cichlids and Central American characins, such as Cave Tetras) thrive in very hard water, as do Goldfish and many of the European/West Asian killifish. So there are plenty of options; see here:
http://www.wetwebmedia.com/FWSubWebIndex/fwlivestk.htm
>
Is this even possible, is it because of the softening system?
<Yes.>
Can I put fish that prefer a high PH with hard water into my tank that is a high PH with soft water?
<No. Fish don't feel pH; it's actually trivial. Aquarists tend to talk about pH because it's an easy, High School concept they're familiar with, and much of the time it describes water chemistry adequately well: hard water has a high pH, soft water a low pH. But the fish really don't care; what they worry about is hardness, both General and Carbonate. Do see here about water chemistry:
http://www.wetwebmedia.com/FWSubWebIndex/fwh2oquality.htm
>
Thanks for your expert advice. Sincerely,
Wanny
<Cheers, Neale.>

Re: Water Chemistry– 05/09/09
Hello again, sorry, but I am a little confused. I have always had the fish in this softened water for many years now, and they have done fine.
<Until now. Hence my point. If you put fish in the wrong water chemistry, it might not kill them immediately, but it will make them weaker over time, and eventually you can end up with problems.>
I have a 72 gallon with two pictus catfish, one pearl Gourami, some fancy tail guppies, some Royal Black Tetras and two tin foil barbs, one of which I have had for six years. Therefore, I don't understand how this water is
bad for the fish.
<Guppies may tolerate soft water for a while, but it isn't good for them, and mostly, they get sick. There's a saying that playing Russian Roulette once and surviving doesn't mean it's a safe game. Apart from the Guppies, all the other fish here come from soft water habitats.>
Also, my drinking tap water is the same softened water, and the softener company never told me not to drink it.
<Ask your MD instead. Or see, for example the CDC, here:
http://www.cdc.gov/nasd/docs/d000001-d000100/d000009/d000009.html
>
I was under the assumption that most important with PH was to keep it stable.
<Within reason, but the pH has to be within the safe zone for a given fish.
Corydoras will be happy between pH 6 and pH 8, but the pH should be stable within that range. Likewise, Guppies are happy between 7.0 and 8.5, but again, it needs to be stable.>
My brother has a new, cycled 29 gallon tank with one marble angelfish, and can't seem to keep the water PH consistent. He has soft water with a PH of 6.8, that just keeps dropping once water is in tank, drops to 5.0 PH.
<Obviously has little/no carbonate hardness.>
He has used Seachem Neutralizer to make the water a consistent 7.0 PH, but it only worked for one month and now won't work.
<Do see here for why water chemistry matters and how to regulate it easily:
http://www.wetwebmedia.com/FWsubwebindex/fwh2oquality.htm
Also see here for the problems associated with soft water:
http://www.wetwebmedia.com/FWsubwebindex/fwsoftness.htm
>
In research he has read to use "Crushed Coral" to buffer the water so that the PH stays constant, use a little at a time in a stocking, until you reach the desired PH, but now will that also make the water harder which is not good for the angelfish?
<No, this method isn't applicable here. Read the first of the two articles, and in particular the "Rift Valley Cichlid Salt Mix". Added to each bucket of water at one-fourth to one-third the dosage used in Rift Valley cichlid tanks, you'll probably find the Rift Valley Cichlid Salt Mix a cheap and easy way to control water chemistry.>
Now that you tell me the PH does not matter and only the hard or softness of the water does, should my brother not worry about stabilizing the PH in his Angelfish tank?
<Your brother needs to worry about both; drops from pH 6.8 to 5 within a week is just not acceptable. Whatever fish you get, they'll be severely stressed.>
How far can the PH drop?
<Meaning how much variation is safe? Not much. Let's say the pH was 6.8 today, and a week later it was pH 6.7 or 6.6, that would be okay (and in fact not uncommon).>
Thanks for your help, and I am sorry if I seem ignorant, but I have read constantly about the water chemistry and you are the only person that I have come across that says the PH does not matter, and softened water is bad for the fish.
<You're misunderstanding what I'm saying. Let's spell it out again just to be crystal clear: [1] All fish can adapt to a range of water chemistry values, meaning hardness and pH. For example, Corydoras are happy between 5-20 degrees dH, and between pH 6 to 8. [2] No fish tolerates rapid changes in pH. So even if your Corydoras are happy *between* pH 6 and 8, if the pH drops from 8 to 6 across a week, that will stress them. If the pH change is
really fast, it'll kill them. [3] Provided the pH is within the range of tolerance, it doesn't much matter what the value is, so long as it is steady from week to week. [4] Water from a domestic water IS NOT soft water like you find in the Amazon. It retains high general hardness but zero carbonate hardness, and that means it is subject to rapid pH changes. It also contains significant amounts of sodium, well above what freshwater fish would normally experience. Some freshwater fish react badly to this, becoming more prone to things like Dropsy. It is absolutely standard in the
UK at least for the drinking water tap to bypass the domestic water softener. In other parts of the world I cannot say. But if you have unsoftened water, that's the one to use for your aquarium fish. Find out the pH and hardness of the unsoftened water, and then choose fish that enjoy it.>
I will also read as you have suggested with your links. Thanks again.
Wanny
<Cheers, Neale.>

Re: Water Chemistry– 05/09/09
I have just read your information on water chemistry, I do have the R/O unit with my water softener, so that explains why I drink from the tap, which is where I fill the water for the fish.
<Sorry, I'm confused a bit here. An RO unit -- a reverse-osmosis unit -- isn't the same thing as a domestic water softener. Water from an RO filter is NEVER used in fish tanks "as is". It is too pure. Usually, it is mixed
with some tap water or a mineral mix of some kind. For my community tanks, I mix 50/50 rainwater (essentially the same thing as RO water) with the hard tap water I have.>
However, my readings are GH Soft, like 0, and my KH is very high around 300.
<Are you sure about this? Domestic water softeners remove carbonate hardness (measured with the KH) not general hardness. We measure carbonate hardness with a KH test kit, and the scale is either mg/l calcium carbonate or degrees KH.>
My PH is 8.2. So this is really difficult, I am amazed my fish have survived...any suggestions? I have sand substrate which was not supposed to affect the PH, per the guy at the fish store, however, I have an idea that this is why my PH is 8.2, and my KH is 300.<If it's an inert sand, like silica sand, it shouldn't alter water
chemistry.>
Thanks again.
<Cheers, Neale.>

Re: Water Chemistry   5/11/09
Hello Again, thanks so much for your patience.
<Happy to help.>
I have a R/O on my sink and a softener for the well water that comes into my house, for showering, washing dishes, etc.
<You drink RO water, and use a domestic water softener for everything else, right? OK. Water from the drinking water tap can be used with aquarium fish, but not directly. RO water by itself is far too soft for aquarium fish, even softwater fish. I'm surprised you're drinking it to be honest, because while there's some debate about whether RO (or Deionised) water is actually harmful, the vast majority of medics and dentists maintain that mineralised is better for you, providing not just fluoride for the teeth but also traces of magnesium, calcium, etc used elsewhere. In any event, you can't use this "as is" for any aquarium fish. As a baseline, I'd mix 50% RO water with 50% hard tap water, and then see what you got. If the pH was around 7.0-7.5, and the hardness "moderate" by whatever scale you're using, that should be perfect for a vast range of community tropicals.>
The only water if I purchase from store without any nitrites is the Purified Water. I have checked all water...drinking, Spring, all have something not good, usually Nitrites.
<Ammonia and nitrite in drinking water is not uncommon. Do remember your filter will remove these quickly. The difference between the ammonia and nitrite from water, and the ammonia and nitrite from your fish, is that fish constantly make the ammonia that becomes nitrite. Once the ammonia and nitrite in the new water is neutralised by the filter (and the water conditioner, if you choose one that removes ammonia) then it's gone. Your fish, by contrast, are producing the stuff all the time, and that's the danger!>
The Purified water is too pure, just like you say with the R/O.
Therefore, I am unsure which water to use now. I thought as long as it had no Ammonia, or Nitrites, or chlorine, it was okay.
<It's really very simple. Whatever water you add to the aquarium should be about neutral in pH (slightly above or below is fine) and around 10 degrees dH in terms of hardness. There should be no ammonia in it, and that's removed using dechlorinators such as AmQuel that remove ammonia as well as chlorine/chloramine. Now, I've said this is "simple", and it really is provided you understand that what is in the water is as important as what isn't. If you live somewhere the water comes from a chalk aquifer, like I
do, you end up with what we Brits call "Liquid Rock", water with a very high pH and hardness: typically 8 to 8.2, 20-25 degrees dH. Lots of fish will adapt to this, and livebearers plus numerous cichlids absolutely love it. But if you want to keep soft water fish like Angels, there's an argument to be made in favour of softening the water a bit. I mix 50/50 tap water and rainwater, and I get around pH 7.5, 10 degrees dH. Perfect!
There's no brain power involved at all: when I change the water, I take out buckets in pairs, so I can add one bucket of rainwater for every one bucket of tap water. Piece of cake. What I suggest you do is find the bypass tap (faucet) that gives you access to the water as supplied. Check the water chemistry (or have your pet store do it). Give me the pH and the hardness, ideally the carbonate hardness but the general hardness will do too. If you have liquid rock like I do, mixing 50/50 with the RO water would be the way to go!>
I use Prime with each water change any how. Please advise on the Crushed Coral to buffer my brother's angelfish tank, should I use this in a stocking, like suggested until the PH is stabilized to around 7.0 PH? I
don't want him to keep using liquids to adjust PH, as we know this is expensive, unstable, etc. You are the BEST! I can't thank you enough for your help.
<Hope this helps. Cheers, Neale.>

Re: Water Chemistry 5/12/09
Helps Bunches...yes the water using the dip test strip shows "0" ppm on the GH and I know this does not make sense but seems to show the color of "300" ppm for the KH, unless the color does not match any on the chart, but it seems to be bluish dark green and match the "300", as stated above.
This is why I thought it was the sand that raised the KH and my PH to a constant 8.2.
<It is what it is...>
Cause sand is basically the carbonate, correct, which buffers PH, right?
<Silica sand is silica, and doesn't alter pH at all. Coral sand is calcareous, and yes, it will raise the pH and buffer against pH changes. So it depends on the sand you use.>
I have to see if I can find the by pass to get the water directly from my well, and test that. Thanks so much on clarifying the store purchased water and ammonia and nitrites found in it, that was so frustrating and why I moved over to the "Purified". Interesting, very interesting, who knew?
<Indeed.>
Thanks so much, this can be annoying, and once again, I am amazed my fish have survived using the softened water. Also, be aware, that the salt in the softening system only back flushes the filter system when it becomes clogged, and does not actually get into the water, so the salt in the water as you mentioned which is bad for the fish, I am not sure this is applicable in my case.
<This may vary between some systems, but some sodium *does* get into drinking water from domestic water softeners. See, for example, this at the Mayo Clinic:
http://www.mayoclinic.com/health/sodium/AN00317
The harder your water to begin with, the more sodium that ends up in the softened water. I'm assuming your RO water filter at the kitchen water tap was installed for precisely this purposes, to remove the sodium from the softened water used for drinking.>
One last question, you mentioned purchasing the "Rift Valley Cichlid Salt Mix" to buffer my brother's Angelfish tank, is the salt bad or good, confused, or is this just special stuff?
<It's not "salt", it's "mineral salts" plural. That's important to understand. Cichlid salt mix raises both general hardness (which affects osmoregulation) and carbonate hardness (which affects pH stability). It doesn't much alter salinity. So the simple answer is, yes, it's "special stuff".>
Why are you against using the "crushed coral" to buffer in a freshwater tank, as others have suggested?
<Firstly, because crushed coral dissolves into the water over time, so when you do water changes, it takes hours/days for the water chemistry to re-adjust to where it should be. Secondly, the rate at which the crushed coral dissolves depends on how much water flows past it. If the crushed coral is just sitting at the bottom of the tank, the reaction occurs very slowly because little water moves past it. If the crushed coral is part of an undergravel filter, where water is passing through it all the time, the reaction is faster. Thirdly, once the crushed coral is covered with bacteria and algae, it stops reacting with the water. So you can suddenly find the pH changing, seemingly for "no apparent reason". All told, it's an unpredictable, fiddly method that doesn't work very well.>
Okay, that's two more questions, sorry! Have a nice day. Thanks so much again. Wanny
<Cheers, Neale.>

Re: Water Chemistry 5/14/09
Again. Thanks.
<You're welcome.>
I am learning so much, and finding a lot of different information on fish keeping. However, you do make sense, and the "crushed coral" idea...forget about it!!! I will get the other stuff. Your help is truly deeply appreciated. Have a lovely day. Wanny
<Glad it's all making sense now! Good luck, Neale.>

Re: Water Chemistry 5/15/09
Hello Neale,
I am unable to find exactly the "Rift Valley Cichlid Salt Mix" so I am going to try your homemade recipe on the site...the Ocean Marine Salt, Baking Soda, and Epsom Salt mix.
<Ah, "Rift Valley Cichlid Salt mix" isn't a brand or product name... it's just what I call the stuff. Mention this to a decent retailer and they'll know what you're after, and realise you want something different to either [a] marine salt mix or [b] generic aquarium tonic salt. That said, the recipe I describe has been used for decades, and works well. It costs very little to make, too.>
I am going to use the calculations per 20 gallons for a 29 gallon tank, which is what my brother's angelfish is in. Hopefully this dosage will put the PH stable at around 7.0. My understanding is to add more of this mixture as you do water changes, correct?
<You add the Salt Mix to each bucket of water. Let's say you have a 5 gallon bucket, and you're doing a water change of two buckets. Take out two buckets from the tank and pour down the drain (on the garden plants, or whatever). Next up, put 5 gallons of new water in your 5 gallon water. Add the right amount of salt mix *for this bucket of water, not the whole tank*. In other words, if you were keeping Malawi cichlids, you'd add one level tablespoon Epsom salt, one level teaspoon each of baking soda and marine salt mix. Stir well, dechlorinate, add to the tank. Repeat this for the second bucket. For other types of fish, such as your Angelfish, you'd reduce the amount of each "ingredient" as required; I'd suggest using one-quarter to one-half the amount, depending on your circumstances.>
Therefore, if I was changing approximately 6 gallons per week, I should use even less of these ingredients with the six gallon water change? How can I figure out the dosage per gallon?
<Let's say 6 gallons in 5 gallons for now; the difference is trivial. For each bucket, add about one-quarter a level tablespoon Epsom salt, and one-quarter a level teaspoon Epsom salt and Marine salt mix. When you've mixed them in, check the pH and hardness. So long as you get a pH around 7-7.5, and a hardness somewhere in the "medium" range on your test kits, you're fine.>
That would be easier during water changes as to not overdose...I don't want the water getting hard, or too high in PH, as you know Angelfish like the water soft and slightly acidic.
<This is true, though to be fair, modern domesticated Angels are very adaptable.>
Also, my brother tells me the PH is staying stable at around 6.4 using the Seachem Buffer right now. It seems this is an okay PH for the Angelfish, however, I am aware that the beneficial bacteria prefer a PH of 7.0 and up to survive happily, if not for that I would just tell him to keep using the Seachem Buffer because it is keeping PH stable at this time, in a range the angelfish like.
<If everything is working, your brother may want to carry on with what he's doing. There's no burning need to change the water chemistry if it's stable; the point to the salt mix we discussed above is that it's useful *when water chemistry isn't stable* and the pH bounces around between water changes.>
Your suggestions are much appreciated. Oh please, one more thing, what a pain I am...I have had my first experience with "Ich". I have tetras in a Quarantine tank that have come down with this disease. I am currently treating with "Quick Cure" and have read about the cycle of the disease, etc. If the fish make it, and I get rid of the disease, can it come back when I add them to my main tank?
<It will not come back *unless* you add more un-quarantined fish. Ick medication works (provided you're not using carbon in the filter, a common mistake!) by killing NOT the white spots but the free-living "baby" parasites. This is why it takes a few days to work, you have to wait for the white spot "adults" to turn into the free-living parasites. Anyway, the Ick medication kills these, and stops the cycle of re-infection. People invariably get Ick because they've added new fish; it doesn't appear out of nowhere.>
I am so afraid now to keep these fish and add to my main tank when illness seems to be gone, just in case they are carriers and it comes back in my main tank? Any ideas on that one? I plan on keeping these fish in quarantine for at least five months now, and just might not add them to my main tank.
<Five months is overkill! 2-4 weeks should work just fine.>
Again, you are so kind to help me. Happy Fish!
Wanny
<Happy to help. Cheers, Neale.>

Re: Water Chemistry 5/15/09
Howdy,
<Hi,>
Thanks for the quick response. I will have him leave his water as is for now, and make him check PH everyday.
<Good plan.>
In the beginning of using the Seachem treatment, it kept it at 7.0 for more than a month. However, in the last week it has lowered it to the 6.4, so I was worried it would keep dropping, and if it does, I am all too excited to use your "Ancient Chinese Secret" (Hee Hee).
<Sounds as if the buffer he's using isn't sufficient by itself; do be aware all aquaria tend to become acidic over time, and some things (e.g., bogwood) will accelerate this.>
Good to know about the ick. I had read that fish could just carry the disease with no signs, but I suppose if I get that neurotic about it, I might as well just give up fish keeping all together. These diseases give me the creeps! Have a pleasant day. Thank you for everything. Wanny
<Cheers, Neale.>  

Torgo the Betta update, sys., reading  3-4-09
Hello crew!
<Elspeth>
This weekend I managed to scrape together sufficient funds to buy Torgo a 6 US Gallon tank with a nice BioWheel filter (with adjustable flow so it's nice and gentle) and a heater.
I have it cycling and it is staying around 77 degrees Fahrenheit. In the meantime, I am continuing to change 25% of Torgo's water with a turkey baster every day and am giving him a ~100% water change once a week-- all with unfiltered, treated (dechlorinated) water.
One question:
There are so many products out there that say they will harden my water  (it is oh, so soft at my house).
<Really? How soft is soft? Not water that is "run" through a residential water softener I hope/trust... if so, I'd "go outside", use the tap from a spigot, warm up and use it instead>
What is your favorite product/method to add some minerals to your water?
<Just exposure to natural carbonate material...>
Thanks for all your help and patience!
-Elspeth
<Read here re: http://wetwebmedia.com/FWSubWebIndex/fwhardnessfaqs.htm
and the linked files above. Bob Fenner>

Re: Torgo the Betta update - 03/06/09
Oh my gosh! I got a reply from Bob, himself!
Hello again crew!
<Hi!>
I think you'll be happy to know that don't treat our water and the hardness is the same from the tap as it is from the hose:
4dKH and 17.9ppm
I used the API Aquarium Pharmaceuticals KH/GH test. From what I've read around, Bettas like "moderate hardness" and I don't think that my water qualifies.
<Bettas will adapt to a wide range of conditions, and in the wild, will be living in fairly soft water, as is common for most (though certainly not all) Southeast Asian fish. However, it is true to say that soft water aquaria can be less difficult to maintain than hard water aquaria, so by default, it's usually best to aim for neutral, moderately hard water conditions if you have the option. This won't harm soft water fish at all, but will resist pH changes much better than soft water will.>
Soft water certainly gives a lovely lather in the shower, but I'm not so sure Torgo will like it.
<It's unlikely to be an issue provided you can ensure pH stays stable;
that's usually the problem with soft water aquaria.>
On the FAQs I read that adding baking soda may be useful. How much per gallon would you recommend?
<I wouldn't recommend adding just baking soda by itself. Instead, I'd use some Rift Valley salt mix, which you can either buy ready made or mix yourself very inexpensively. A classic Rift Valley mix, per 5 gallons (20 litres) is as follows:
1 teaspoon baking soda (sodium bicarbonate)
1 tablespoon Epsom salt (magnesium sulfate)
1 teaspoon marine salt mix (sodium chloride + trace elements)
Since you're not keeping a hard water fish as such, I'd actually start by using one-quarter the amount, stir well, test the water, and see what your water chemistry test kits say. It should be adequate, but if not, perhaps use one-half the amount.>
I also read that someone was adding a chunk o' coral to his freshwater tank-- which was ok by Neale-- since his water needed to be hard and alkaline.
<Crushed coral, as opposed to a dead coral, can be used to buffer the water, but only within certain limits. Firstly, water has to be flowing past the crushed coral, so you have to put the coral inside the filter, often an undergravel or canister filter. Secondly, it's difficult to predict how quickly and how effectively crushed coral will work, which is why it's usually used in large amounts (so it's quick) and in systems where a high pH/hardness is required (so there's no danger of "overdosing"). A Malawi cichlid aquarium is the classic situation. Thirdly, crushed coral has to be regularly cleaned or replaced, else it loses its efficacy. In short, in a small Betta tank, sticking a head of coral in the aquarium is not going to create precise, manageable conditions of the sort you're after. I'd also add that the trade in dead corals is generally considered unsustainable and is illegal in some areas, e.g., Europe, so unless you have access to dead corals from (unsuccessful!) marine fishkeepers, I can't in all honesty recommend anyone use them. Faux corals are just as good looking, don't affect water chemistry, and are not expensive.>
Would this be a possible solution, or is it likely to make the water too hard for a Betta?
<Wouldn't use coral in this system.>
(and how would it go for tetras? My sister has a tank of cute little neon and cardinal tetras over at her place, so I'm curious.) I guess it would depend on the size of the coral chunk, eh?
<Repeat after me: corals do not belong in a freshwater aquarium. If you want corals, either get faux ones, or set up a marine aquarium and keep live ones! There's really no ethically or practically acceptable use for dead coral skeletons in freshwater tanks.>
Ultimately, I think I should look into having a soft water tank after Torgo goes to that big fish tank (or rice field) in the sky, in a few years (since Bettas have fairly short lifespans). If I've got soft water, I may as well use it to my advantage, right? (your Soft Water Aquarium page gave me some food for thought.)
<This is consistently my advice: Learn your water conditions, and choose fish that enjoy them. In soft water areas your challenge is pH stability, so that invariably means using as big a tank as you can afford, and to tend towards understocking it to prevent excessive amounts of decay.>
Thank you for your patience and advice!
Sincerely,
-Elspeth
<Cheers, Neale.>

Hardness question, African Cichlid Sys.  3-4-09
Hello all,
<Jim>
I recently had the pleasure of stumbling upon your site and have been greatly impressed with the wealth of information found here. I have a 265 gallon all-male hap and peacock African cichlid tank. My question concerns the level of hardness as I believe mine is a little low. My water parameters are as follows:
Temp= 80
<Mmm, I'd allow to be lower... will reduce aggression appreciably... as I see you intend to add a good deal more fishes>
pH= 8.0
Ammonia= 0
Nitrites= 0
Nitrates= 10
KH= 5 degrees
GH= 10 degrees
<Mmmm>
Water out of the tap measures as:
ph= 7.6
KH= 6 degrees
GH= 8 degrees
My substrate and tank decor consists of Aragonite sand, lace rock and about twenty onion plants.
<Sounds very nice>
Filtration is provided by a Fluval FX5 and an Eheim 2217 with an additional FX5 to be added within the next week. The tank is very lightly stocked at the moment, containing twelve 3.5 to 5 inch fish. I plan on adding about 25- 30 more for a total of around 40 adult fish. I change about 25- 30% of the water every 3- 4 days as I can't stand the waste buildup on the sand.
<A very good practice>
I have always adhered to the philosophy of keeping things simple. In my opinion, the more water changes and the less chemical tinkering the better.
<I am in total agreement>
Basically, keeping water parameters consistent at a slightly less than ideal level is better than creating a chemical soup trying to find the "perfect" environment. However, if there is a simple solution to keep my hardness levels in a more acceptable range, I would definitely be willing to give it a try. I have read on here about adding crushed coral to my filters which seems easy enough. I had mistakenly thought that the Aragonite sand would sufficiently buffer the water but it makes sense that a constant flow through the media would be needed instead. What I am trying to avoid is having to add anything to the water when I do water changes. How unacceptable do you think my current hardness levels are?
<They are fine>
If I just add the crushed coral to my filter, will I create too much of a difference in the hardness between the water in my tank and the water coming from my tap and stress the fish with the constant fluctuations?
<It would (initially) raise both the GH and KH... but...>
Or should I leave well enough alone? Thanks for your help, Jim McGunnigle
<If it were me/mine I would very likely leave well enough alone here Jim... It reads as if you have a very nice system, a good maintenance protocol, and a very good handle/understanding on basic aquarium husbandry... You are very likely a very reasonable/strong instigator of others getting into our hobby/interest. I thank you for sharing. Bob Fenner>

pH/Ammonia Issue, barb sys., env. dis.      1/6/09
I have a 26 gallon bow front tank with 7 different types of barbs (Rosey, long finned Rosey, ruby, Odessa) and 1 rainbow shark. I have a whisper filter and an undergravel filter. The temp is set at 78 degrees. This tank used to be for goldfish but has only had the barbs for about three months.
When I first started up I slowly added the fish and everything checked out.
After awhile the water was somewhat cloudy and the fish were swimming near the bottom and not really eating which I think resulted in over feeding since I kept feeding them.
<Do understand that "overfeeding" in itself isn't the issue. When you put food in the tank, it pollutes the water. It doesn't matter much whether it goes through the digestive system of a fish or not. The point is that if the tank is too small, the filter flow too weak, or the biological filter media insufficiently mature, the food ends up as ammonia. That ammonia stresses the fish, and commonly this reveals itself as fish that are lethargic, nervous, poorly coloured, or sick. Prolonged exposure invariably leads to disease and ultimately death.>
I took my water to a local pet shop and they tested it and said everything was ok (I never asked for the actual numbers). After talking with a friend he suggested I buy a PH kit and test that since he thought the water might be too acidic. It turned out to be very acidic and he told me to add 3/4 teaspoon baking soda every four hours. I did that and got the PH up.
<the pH of the water is generally not a factor in keeping freshwater fish except insofar as the pH is stable from week to week. All the fish you list will be fine between pH 6 and pH 8. Adding baking soda (sodium bicarbonate) will raise the carbonate hardness of the water and that in turn raises and stabilises the pH. But it is critically important not to change the water chemistry rapidly. I'd actually investigate a couple other issues before adding baking soda. Firstly, are you using water from a domestic water softener? A very common mistake is to do this! Secondly, how often do you change the water? Your tank is extremely heavily stocked for its size, assuming you have sensible numbers (5-6 specimens) of each species of barb.
My guess is that you're in a soft water area, which is fine by itself, but because the tank is overstocked, the pH is unstable. Do see here:
http://www.wetwebmedia.com/FWSubWebindex/fwsoftness.htm>
However the water stayed somewhat cloudy and the fish started dying. This time I went and bought my own water test kits. The nitrate and nitrate were 0 but the ammonia was high. I did a partial water change and got the ammonia down. However then the PH went back down so I added more baking soda and the cycle continued. All the while I was losing fish.
<Again, my assumption is not that the pH or hardness are "wrong" as such, though they may be relatively low, let's say pH 6 to 7, 5-10 degrees dH, right out the tap. The sheer biological loading on the tank means that the water volume just can't buffer against acidification.>
After reading different things on the internet I am very confused as everyone I talked to or everything I read keeps giving me different information. At present the ammonia is 0.25 and the PH is 6.6. I have been doing 25% water changes every other day and adding BioZyme every day.
<Water changes a good remedy for situations like this, but clearly not something you want to do in the long term.>
So far the fish are ok, although I am expecting to lose one of my Odessa barbs anytime since its stomach is bloated and its scales are sticking out which seems to be dropsy. Everything I read indicates there is nothing I can do to save my fish and it will die.
<Indeed.>
Please advise me on what to do with my tank. I need advice on the ammonia and the Ph in keeping them stable and getting my water to clear. Anything at this point will help.
Kelly
<Rosy Barbs (Puntius conchonius) don't belong in tropical tanks anyway (they're subtropical fish) and get too big (15 cm/6 inches) for this aquarium. The Odessa Barb (Puntius padamya) are a bit smaller (8-10 cm/3-4 inches) and a group of six or so would be borderline acceptable in this tank. Ruby Barbs (Puntius nigrofasciatus) are smaller still (5 cm/2 inches) and a group of 6 would be ideal additions to this tank, though they are very feisty and best kept only with other barbs and not with anything long-finned, slow, or nervous. In other words, start by bringing us some actual numbers about the water from the tap: pH and general hardness. Then think about which barbs you want to keep. Stock the tank slowly, taking care not to overfeed, and to be honest, feeding once every other day would be ample while the tank is unstable. Cheers, Neale.>

Re: pH/Ammonia Issue   1/6/09
You indicated that you wanted the PH and hardness of the tap water. When I tested the PH of the tap water it came out to be 7.6. I waited about an hour and tested it again without adding anything and it was still 7.6. I do not believe I have soft water as I do not have a water softener.
<From the pH, it does sound as if you probably have moderately hard, basic water. When writing pH, note the lower case "p", upper case "H".>
Also, I get water from the city sewer system.
<Eh? How/why do you put sewage into your aquarium? Mains water -- i.e., drinking water -- is just fine and dandy for most aquarium fish. Except in very specific situations, you usually don't need to add or alter anything beyond adding a good dechlorinator/water conditioner.>
Is there a way to test the hardness of the water so I can give you those numbers?
<I'd heartily recommend getting a carbonate hardness (or KH) test kit. Some test kits come as paper strips, sometimes with multiple different tests per strip, so that each strip does pH, carbonate hardness, general hardness, nitrite, and nitrate. Such test kits are usually inexpensive and easy to use.>
If so, please suggest specific tests. I guess I was not very clear when I said I have 7 different types of barbs, I meant 7 total fish. I have 2 Odessa Barbs (one on its way to death), 2 rosy barbs, 1 ruby barb, 2 tico barbs, and 1 rainbow shark.
<Remember when you were reading aquarium books and they mentioned how barbs become aggressive sometimes, and nip other fish? This is how. They are schooling fish. That means their whole psychology works around groups. Six is the minimum number PER SPECIES. Keep less than that and they'll either be terrified or psychotic. Barbs are wonderful fish, but you have to get the fundamentals right. Stocking an aquarium isn't like putting a bunch of different cut flowers in a vase. You can't just choose shapes and colours you like. You have to understand the needs of each animal (yes, fish are animals) and work around them. Generally fishkeeping is a very easy hobby if you do things correctly (i.e., exactly as a good book or expert fishkeeper like me tells you!). But try to go it alone, and things often get messy...>
I was told with my 26 gallon I could have about 20 barbs at some point if I can get things stable.
<Not a chance. For a start, "barbs" covers a variety of species from one-inch dwarfs to giant barbs bigger than a dog. So obviously "twenty barbs" has to be mediated by the size of the barb species concerned. Since you need six of each species, at least, twenty barbs would be, at most, three different species (seven of one, seven of another, and six of a third). While you could keep twenty dwarf species like Puntius gelius or Puntius vittatus, bigger species like Puntius conchonius (the Rosy Barb) are right out.>
However I have never been able to add more because the water has been unstable. You also asked how often I change the water and I normally change 25% of the water once every 7-10 days and change the carbon filter once a month. However with the ammonia spikes I have been doing it every other day or so because it has been getting so high.
<The tank is almost certainly overstocked relative to the maturity of the filter. If I were you, I'd return all the barbs except the Ruby Barbs, since they're the only species that make sense in this tank. Let the tank settle down. After 2-3 weeks of careful management I'd fully expect the filter to mature safely and the pH to stabilise. You can then add some more Ruby Barbs to bring the school up to a sensible size. I'd make sure to keep six of them, three males to three females. While females aren't so strongly coloured, they help the males settle in and dilute the aggression. They also encourage the males to acquire their breeding colours as they mature, in which condition the males are extremely handsome. Ruby Barbs are pretty aggressive fish though, so don't expect to keep anything dainty or long-finned like Guppies or Angelfish -- just isn't gonna happen! The Rainbow Shark Minnow should be returned too, though you could try keeping it if you felt like a challenge. Shark Minnows are aggressive and very territorial once mature, and my assumption would be it will become a bit of a terror in a tank this small! But that's your choice. All the other fish should go, period.>
So, I guess I still need advice on how to stabilize the ammonia and PH and once I get all that situated I will need to know which barbs can go together since I was told all barbs can go together.
<No they can't.>
I will be happy to provide all the information I can so you can provide me with the most accurate solutions as all the advice I have been given so far has not helped me.
Kelly
<Do also check your filter is appropriate to your needs. Don't waste your time with "ammonia remover" or carbon media; what you need is biological and mechanical media, a good mix of sponge and/or ceramic noodles. Choose a filter with a turnover of NOT LESS than four times the volume of the tank per hour (in your case, at least 4 x 26 = 104 gallons per hour). The more filtration, the better. If budget is an issue, it's hard to beat an undergravel filter. Otherwise any decent internal or external canister filter should do the trick nicely. Read the instructions carefully, but don't get distracted by sales pitches that involve replacing sachets of carbon and what not every month! Carbon is pretty useless in a tank like yours, and mostly a way for manufacturers to make money. Read up on what each filter medium type does, and choose accordingly. Take it from me: biological media is what makes or breaks your aquarium! Hope this helps.
Cheers, Neale.>

Re: pH/Ammonia Issue
First off I want to thank you for taking the time to help me.
<Happy to help.>
This whole process has been so frustrating as the people at the pet stores seem to know little to nothing about fish. I spoke with the store where I purchased the fish and they will not take them back (even for free). I explained it was their bad advice but they still would not take them. I also called several other stores but none of them have the types of barbs I have and won't take them. They have a few have tiger barbs but not the other varieties so they won't take them. So far it does not look like I am going to be able to get rid of the fish and just keep the one ruby like you suggested. Any thoughts on this?
<I wish I had some magic solution to this. But there isn't one. Without "getting on your case" too much, the lesson here is that it always pays to research the fish first, and then buy them, rather than buy them first, and then find out about them afterwards. Since you're stuck with these fish for the time being at least, you can always hope for the best. But at the end of the day, the biology of each fish species will be working against you, so there's no guarantees I can give you that all will work out. Things might, but I just can't say for sure.>
In terms of filtration...I have a Whisper power filter for up to 30 gallons. According to the packaging it has mechanical, chemical, and biological filtration components and a turnover rate of 150 gallons per hour. I also have a Perfect-A-Flo undergravel filter that is powered by an air pump and air stones.
<All sounds fine. The undergravel filter will be doing most of the work in terms of biological filtration.>
I also left work and purchased a water test kit and went home and tested the water. I tested both the current aquarium water and the tap water without any chemicals added to it. (I stated before I got the water out of the sewage system...haha, I meant the city tap. That would be gross). The results are as follows:
Aquarium Water:
Tap Water:
Nitrate - 0
Nitrate - 0
Nitrite - 0.5
Nitrite - 0
Total Hardness (GH) - 300 ppm
GH - 300 ppm
Chlorine - 0
Chlorine - 0
Total Alkalinity (KH) - 40 ppm
KH - 180 ppm
pH- 6.2
pH - 8.4
<Ah, very interesting. Firstly, nitrite is going up, which implies one of three things: [a] the filter isn't mature (or isn't being maintained properly); [b] the fish are being overfed; or [c] there are too many (or too big) fish for the tank/filter provided. Secondly, the carbonate hardness (that's the KH measurement) goes down. Carbonate hardness is the stuff that prevents acidification. In brief, all tanks tend to become acidic over time for a variety of reasons. Decaying organic matter produces acids, bogwood leaches acids, nitrate dissociates into nitric acid, and so on. In a hard water tank there is usually enough carbonate hardness that this process is so inhibited that any acidification (i.e., pH drop) is minimal between water changes. Hence, while aquarists often bemoan hard water because it's so different to the soft water of the Amazon, in reality it is something of a blessing! Now, since your carbonate hardness is being dramatically "used up" (i.e., goes from 180 ppm [10 degrees KH] to 40 ppm [2.2 degrees KH]) between water changes, this means one of two things: [a] you aren't doing enough water changes to keep topping up the carbonate hardness; or [b] there's an AWFUL lot of acidification going on in your aquarium. By default, do 25-50% water changes weekly, and make sure that there isn't any organic matter in the tank likely to lower pH (bogwood, dead plants, uneaten food, etc.). If the aquarium is honestly going from pH 8.4 to 6.2 between water changes, that is more than enough by itself to kill your fish. In all honesty I can't imagine what's happening to cause such dramatic pH changes, as water with carbonate hardness of 180 ppm is essentially liquid chalk! You certainly shouldn't need to be using buffering chemicals or potions. But one possible result is loss of biological filtration: the filter media bacteria are sensitive to pH, and prefer a pH above 7.0; as the pH drops below 7.0, they work less and less happily, stopping entirely around pH 6.0.>
I also used a separate test kit to get the current ammonia levels of the aquarium and the result was 0.25.
<These low levels of ammonia and nitrite are pretty typical of tanks through their cycling phase; by gut feeling is that this tank is either not fully cycled or else dramatically overstocked. Some of your fish have the potential to get pretty big: how big are they now? I've been assuming they're all babies under 5 cm/2 inches.>
I don't know what this all means except that my tank water is not of good
quality for the fish which I already knew.
<Your tap water is actually pretty good. It's on the hard side, but as mentioned, that's not a bad thing. Barbs don't care about hardness really, and this water would be perfect for livebearers as well as most catfish and cichlids.>
Seeing as I can not return the fish I am not sure what you will suggest next, but I am willing to try anything. Is there any possible way to stabilize the water with the current fish in the tank?
<Here's what I'd do. Put the fish in a bucket, filled with water from the tank. Drape a towel over it to stop them jumping. Switch off the heater and filters. Remove the electric filter, and at the least place its biological media (sponge/ceramic noodles) in a shallow basin of aquarium water so it stays wet but well oxygenated. (Dry media is dead media!) Empty the tank of water down to an inch above the gravel, all the while giving the gravel a really good clean to wash away any detritus. Once you're happy the tank is spotlessly clean, add fresh water from the tap, with dechlorinator of course. Put the heaters and filters back, and switch them on. Check everything looks good, in particular the temperature is where it should be, around 24-25 C/75-77 F for barbs. Now, slowly replace the water in the bucket with water from the tank. The idea is to slowly introduce the barbs to the "new" water conditions one small change at a time. I'd recommend changing one litre (about the size of an ice cream carton) every ten minutes. So after an hour or two, your barbs should be completely converted to the new conditions. Using a net, move the barbs to the new tank. Don't put any old water from the bucket into the tank! Over the next week, do a pH change each day. Don't feed your fish more than one small pinch of food per day! (A small pinch is just that, and all the food should be gone within 30 seconds. Each barb only needs a single flake to do just fine.)
You might decide not to feed them at all this week. In any case, check the pH daily, and with luck, the pH will not drop dramatically. After seven days, change 25-50%; the smaller amount is fine if you find pH is steady and nitrite/ammonia are at zero.>
By the way when I do water changes I add NovAqua plus and AmQuel plus, both Kordon products. One other note, I get an accumulation of crusty white stuff around the edges of the outside of the tank hood. I am assuming this is cause by something from the tank, some sort of deposit buildup, perhaps you know what it is?
<The white stuff is likely just lime. Harmless. Can be brushed off. A little lemon juice or vinegar can be used to safely work away at stubborn patches, but try not to get too much of these into the water! Hope this helps, Neale.>

Re: pH/Ammonia Issue
Yes, all the fish are smaller, I think the Ticto Barbs are the biggest and may be slightly over the 2 inches but not by much. I am going to try your suggestion of draining out the water. One thing you mentioned in your suggestion was "Over the next week, do a pH change each day". Did you mean do a pH check every day?
<Oops. Yes, "check" or "test" was precisely what I meant.>
Hopefully this will work and I just have too much acidification going on, perhaps from overfeeding in the past and it not getting properly cleaned thus causing this problem. I have been very careful about feedings lately so I now at least with the past two weeks I have not been overfeeding. I also know it can not be due to lack of water changes because I have been doing them every other to every two days for the past several weeks and once a week before that. I am going to make sure I take out all the plants and decorations when cleaning this time. If the pH happens to crash I will email you right away. I guess all I need confirmed is that you meant a pH check not change. Thanks again!
<Happy to help, Neale.>

Coral in my Freshwater Tank, H2O chem. f'   12/5/08
Hello,
I've read many, many of the articles on your site and others about using dead coral in a freshwater tank. I see that the prevailing advice is don't do it! But, I'm stubborn. I lugged this huge (about 10 - 15 pounds) piece of coral home from Cuba (along with a smattering of other rocks, most of which I think are nonporous) for the purpose of putting in our new 55 gallon tank (which I haven't set up yet). The simple question I have is this: is there a way to seal this thing with clear epoxy or something to keep it from depositing calcium into the water and messing up the pH?
Right now, the plan is to move the fish from our smaller tank and add others. We currently have 3 guppies, 1 molly, 1 platy, 3 silvertip tetras and 2 oto cats. Thanks -- and sorry if the answer is out there and I didn't find it ...
Rick
<There's absolutely nothing wrong with using coral in a tank where the water is (needs to be) hard and alkaline. So by all means use coral in a tank with Platies, Guppies and Mollies. But inevitably the carbonate hardness and pH will go up if you place it in anything with a low pH or carbonate hardness, and this will stress your Otocinclus and tetras. I'd heartily recommend thinking carefully about what you're trying to do. If you want a hardwater tank with fish and plants that like such conditions, by all means add the coral. Otherwise, leave it out. Covering the things with non-toxic sealant will be tricky given the rugose surface, and even if you did, it would eventually abrade away if you add any fish that like to scrape at things (such as Plecs). On the flip side, a dead coral can look great in a hardwater or brackish water tank. Cheers, Neale.>

Re: Coral in my Freshwater Tank  12/9/08
Neale:
I set up this tank on Saturday. I went ahead and put the coral in it, along with the other rocks I had picked up. I boiled them all for quite awhile on Friday night to make sure there was nothing living in them (although they had been beached for a while). I planted the aquarium with about 15 plants. It looks great... Can't wait to put the fish in in January. I added tap water conditioner and some aquarium water clarifier.
I tested the water and the pH is about 7.2, the hardness was about 11 degrees.
Sunday morning, I got up and there is a layer of white granules (too big to be called a powder) on the plants and rocks. It is more predominant at one end of the tank. Is this something to be concerned about or should I just vacuum it out and see if comes back?
Thanks!
Rick
<Hello Rick. The white stuff could be bicarbonate precipitating out of the water, but to be honest I don't think that's likely given the pH. It's more likely surely that the white stuff is just silt of some sort. I'd siphon the stuff away, and see what happens. Providing water chemistry stays sensible, I'd not worry too much. Your comment on hardness being "11 degrees" is cryptic though -- 11 degrees dH (General hardness) is fine, but 11 degrees KH (Carbonate hardness) would be extremely high. While absolutely fine for livebearers -- in fact the harder the better for them -- carbonate hardness levels above about 7 degrees KH tend to be a bit tough on generic community fish. Cheers, Neale.>
Re: Coral in my Freshwater Tank
Neale:
Thanks! It is dH!
Rick
<Then you should be fine! Cheers, Neale.>

Acidic and hard water - What fish to buy?   11/25/08
Hello,
I have a 30 hexagon and I don't know what to put in it. My tap water PH = 7.8 and its very hard.
<Sounds fine for hardwater fish. Livebearers, many killifish, New Guinean rainbowfish, various small Rift Valley cichlids such as Shell-dwellers would all be appropriate. More broadly, you'll find most barbs and many tetras will also do well.>
Once its in the tanks, the PH would eventually drop to 7.0 or lower.
<Ah, now this is interesting. It suggests that you have high general hardness but low carbonate hardness, and hence the standard acidification processes in all aquaria get to run amok! I'd recommending adding some crushed coral or crushed oyster shell to your filter. Most canister filters have enough space for a media bag filled with such stuff. If you're using an undergravel filter, just incorporate some coral sand into the gravel. Either way, keep testing pH every few weeks, because after a few months the calcareous media will be so covered with algae and gunk it'll stop buffering the water. In the case of a canister filter, you just take out the old calcareous media, and either replace or thoroughly clean under piping hot water. Because hang-on-the-back filters don't have the option for adding buffering media in this cheap and easy way, this is YET ANOTHER reason I find them a total waste of money!>
I used a liquid KH test kit and it takes only 2 drops to change in color from blue to yellow.
<Proof positive!>
I use to keep mollies in this tank, and crushed coral was mixed in the natural gravel to keep the PH stable at 7.6. The KH was always within acceptable range. This tank is too small to place two separate filters on it (one main filter and one for the crushed coral). I refuse to put the crushed coral in the gravel again. Because of the deep tank, cleaning up after the crushed coral "blooms" was a mess. I also don't want to use the crushed coral in the main filter because I fear that it could compromise the beneficial bacteria in it.
<Your concerns about "compromising" an external or internal canister filter are misguided. If you found crushed coral "messy" (and I can't think why) then do try alternatives, such as crushed mussel/oyster shells, which can be very decorative. Adding calcareous media to the substrate is only really effective when used with an undergravel filter, and if you just mixed the stuff into a plain vanilla gravel substrate, then that wouldn't work particularly well because of the lack of water flow, though it would be better than nothing.>
Are there any freshwater fish that like hard and acidic water and can live in a hexagon?
<No fish will do well in hard/acidic water. The real problem isn't the acidity, but the rapid pH change between water changes, where it's going from 7.8 (quite basic) to below 7.0 (slightly acidic). This sort of fluctuation is very bad. Now, tell me, do you happen to use water from a domestic water softener? A lot of beginners make this mistake: you should only ever take the water from the drinking (non-softened) tap.>
Audra
<Cheers, Neale.>

Re: Acidic and hard water - What fish to buy?   11/25/08
Thanks Neale for your feedback. I use nonsoftened tap water for my water changes. It usually takes about 2-3 days for the pH to drop. The water is changed about every 2-3 days. Can using a holey Texas rock (limestone) help buffer the tank with my water alkalinity?
<Will have a marginal effect, and as with anything else, once covered with algae and bacteria, will work less and less effectively.>
Do you know if there is a lot of pH fluctuation using this type of method for buffering?
<The only 100% effective approaches use either [a] the addition of Malawi salt (or even marine salt mix, if the fish are salt-tolerant) to raise the carbonate hardness of each bucket of new water; or [b] the placing of crushed coral within the filter (whether undergravel or canister).>
Once I get the tank's pH to at least neutral, do you have recommendations for fish that will do okay in a hexagon?
<If this was me, I'd be looking at Shell Dwellers, such as Neolamprologus brevis or Neolamprologus multifasciatus. These fish are incredibly pretty and lively, and because they're cichlids, they offer up lots of fun behaviours. They don't need much swimming space, but they do need lots and lots of empty shells (apple snail shells are often used, but those snail shells sold with cans of escargot to the trick brilliantly as well). They rarely move more than a few inches from the substrate, so you add a few Endler guppies to the top of the tank for a bit of colour. Tanganyikans need very hard (20 degrees dH, 7+ degrees KH) water with a high pH (around 8 to 8.2) as well as perfect water quality, so I wouldn't recommend these fish for beginners. But if you have some experience, providing and maintaining these conditions shouldn't be difficult. A fun, rewarding hardwater system that will work well in a "tall" tank.>
Audra
<Cheers, Neale.>

Peat moss to induce breeding?  10/6/08
Hi -
I have some Rasboras, some black Neons and some cherry barbs, all of which at one time or another seemed like they were ready to breed (as evidenced by males chasing the females around, and especially the Rasboras turning upside down on a leaf).
<Certainly seems possible; that said, the tricky bit is getting the females in "condition", i.e., ripe with eggs.>
However nothing has really happened or any eggs I may have missed have been eaten. I bought a small 2 gallon tank with some marbles on the bottom to put a small pair of fish to see if maybe they would mate and then could be removed quickly. i have not added any pairs yet to the tank. what would you recommend to induce mating?
<No single formula for all possible species. But in the case of Harlequin Rasboras (Trigonostigma heteromorpha) breeding is quite difficult. You need extremely soft water around 2 degrees dH (here in southern England where the water has a hardness of 20 degrees dH, that's one part tap water to nine parts rain (or RO) water. You also need to ensure the pH is stable, possibly by doing large water changes frequently, but more than likely by using a pH buffer to fix the pH at the required 5.5 or so. You also need to raise the temperature to around 26-28 C, and then make sure the tank is positioned somewhere it gets morning sunlight. The water also needs to be filtered through peat or treated with blackwater extract, and not too deep, around 20 cm. Assuming all these things are provided, they should spawn eventually, laying their eggs underneath broad leaves (such as Cryptocorynes). Your 2 gallon tank is way too small for breeding fish; look for a standard breeder tank at least 30 litres in capacity and 60 cm long. Spawning is often a frenetic process with much chasing, and you'll frequently need to maintain the adult fish in the breeding tank a fair while, and of course provide decent water quality for the developing fry, something impossible in bucket-size tanks.>
i hear adding peat moss to filter, raising temperature, may help. thanks, bob
<Do spend time with Baensch's Aquarium Atlas and the like, researching the species you're interested in. Cheers, Neale.>  

Hard/alkaline Water  9/18/09
Hello,
<Ave,>
I have a 55 gallon tank and have had some hit and miss results with some fish, I have been finding it hard to keep some fish alive for more than six months, right now I have 5 flame tetras, a black molly, striped Raphael catfish, clown Pleco, 3 Otocinclus catfish, and a zebra Botia. They have done fairly well, but the molly is the last of about 6 that I had purchase at one time. the rest just slowly died off of the course of a month or two.
<Mollies, contrary to popular belief, are not "easy" fish. They always do better in slightly brackish water, and in addition are very intolerant of nitrogenous wastes, including Nitrate. Best kept in a tank designed for their specific needs; in such tanks they are actually quite hardy and easily kept.>
I have tried many fish in the tank, ie. Corys, Elephantnose, African butterfly fish, marble hatchet, angels, clown loaches, Gourami, and various other normal tropical fish, but none have lasted as long as I would like.
<Not all of these are "normal". Elephantnoses are very difficult to keep: they need a soft substrate of sand (not gravel) and copious quantities of frozen or live foods such as bloodworms. They can't be mixed with other bottom feeders because they'll starve. African Butterflyfish are difficult to feed and rarely mix well with tetras because they often get nipped, allowing infections to set in. But if you're losing something like 50% of the fish you're trying to keep, then the problems may run deeper than this. Review in particular water quality; this is by far the commonest explanation for "mass deaths".>
I have hard/alkaline water, calcium carbonate at 200+, ph of around 8.0, I just have the test strips that test all the major qualities of water, those plus of course the hardness are of the charts for my test strip.
<In itself hard water isn't bad, but it does make life easier if you choose species adapted to such conditions. There are plenty of options:
http://www.wetwebmedia.com/FWsubwebindex/fwhardness.htm
In particular I'd commend to you the livebearers, the rainbowfish, the gobies, the halfbeaks, and the glassfish. If you're a bit more ambitious, Tanganyikan and Malawian cichlids will also do well, and a small number of these can (just about) be considered community fish, if mixed with appropriate species. Shell-dwelling Lamprologus for example mix great with surface-swimming livebearers.>
Being that I don't want to have to go through the work of lowering the ph and constantly monitoring the water quality, or purchase a reverse osmosis filter and just go with the flow I was wondering what types of fish and plants I could put in there that I can enjoy for more years without having to replace them. I do regular water changes and vacuum the gravel as well as use stress coat with all water changes and addition of fish as well as aquarium salt (1 tblsp/5 gallons).
<Adding salt is a waste of time in a mixed community tank, and may indeed be one factor behind your unfortunate experience. Contrary to popular myth, adding salt isn't essential and doesn't make the tank better in some mysterious way inexplicable to science. Lots of freshwater fish have a low tolerance of salt, and even quite small amounts will stress them in the long term. I'd heartily suggest concentrating on water quality and choosing fish adjusted to your water chemistry. Trust me on this: do things this way, and it's a lot easier.>
Any advice would be much appreciated so I can enjoy seeing the same fish everyday.
Thank You,
Matt
<Cheers, Neale.>

TDS vs. PMDD – 7/30/08
Dear Benjamin,
<Hans>
I'm using pea gravel for my substrate. I did vinegar test for my substrate, and I think it is fine. The rocks are not bubbling.
Recently I tested some of the pea gravel to a bucket and left it for 3 days and did not show any changes in ph and kH.
<Good>
I also have few bog woods in the tank.
And yes, you are right!.. I tested the water and it has a TDS value of 593! By the way, I've recently bought an RO unit for my tank and a TDS meter.
<A good choice, given your trouble>
Thus, currently I have got ph=7; and kH=8, which according to the table shows a desirable co2 level.
Since I have got a good read-out from the ph-kh-co2; I think it is time to move on to fertilizing the plants.
Judging from the last read-out (TDS=593), I have done 2 water changes. and now, ph=7;kh=8;CO2=??(should be OK according to the tables) but I still have a TDS value of 467. I know that a TDS meter measure total dissolved solid, but I do not know what or which solids does it refer to..
Does it means that I have enough macro and/or micro elements in the water?
<Hard to say...in your case, probably a lot of carbonates, metals...>
Does it also means that I do not have to add fertilizer such as PMDD? I would assume that by adding PMDD dose would increase TDS.
<With RO you will need to add buffers and fertilizers, but I would wait to fertilize until you have the KH under control- keep your variables limited. Once your hardness and pH are both in their proper places, begin to tinker with other factors>
Many Thanks..
Hans.
<No trouble!>
(I'm new to fresh water planted aquaria. Unlike most people I guess.. Im started off with marine and has had great success with my tank with the help of your crew!!, thus I really mean MANY MANY thanks to you all!) But I still think fresh water planted aquaria is more challenging than marine. It is the growth rate that fascinates me.
<Understood...truly beautiful, often under-appreciated or unknown ecosystems. Best wishes for your tank, Benjamin>

Hardness... FW?   6/12/08
Hi ya'll
<Jay>
I've had my 37 gal. tank setup for about 3 weeks now. I am using Jungle Quick Dip 5 test strips.
<Such assays are notoriously inaccurate and imprecise...>
Everything shows fine except the hardiness pad.
On the box, the color is a dark grey for a good reading, on my test strip, the color is vivid blue. Now my question is, is this high or low?
<Got me>
I cant find anywhere, where it has the colors for a low reading or high reading.
Can you guys help me out, if I need to adjust the hardiness, I need to know which way to go (up or down).
Thanks and any and all help would be greatly appreciated.
Thanks again
Jay
<For... what purpose? That is, what sorts of organisms are you hoping to keep, do what with? Your pH may well give you a good approximation of hardness "range"... but likely you don't need or want to be adjusting this factor. Please read here: http://wetwebmedia.com/FWSubWebIndex/fwhardness.htm
and the linked files above.
Bob Fenner>

Need help with ph and hardness 5/15/08
Hi, I am a little confused with what is happening with my tank. Hoping you guys can shed some light.
<Will try.>
I have a 28 gallon freshwater tank, penguin bio-wheel 150 filter, keeping it at 80 degrees. Its planted with a fair number of plants. I have eco-complete substrate with a layer of CaribSea "peace river" gravel on top. As far as decor I have a fake stump and two decent sized pieces of sandstone. I’m trying to get the tank conditions perfect for the 4 Bolivian Rams I have, hoping to see some spawning. 5 months ago when the tank was first set up, before the rams, I was using 100% tap water and conditioning it. My tap conditions according to test strips I have are GH 200 ppm, KH 140 ppm, and pH about 8. So a few weeks after set-up I started using RO water in attempt to lower ph and hardness.
<A good investment.>
At that time I also started using Seachem acid buffer, not really knowing what I was doing. Used acid buffer for about a week and it dropped KH pretty low, lowered pH a little also. I got worried about that stuff and stopped using it. I slowly moved into doing 100% RO water changes to see what would happen. I did that for 2 months and no change in ph and no change in hardness. I cant seem to understand how despite consistently adding water with 0 minerals to my tank, the GH wouldn’t budge.
<Agreed, it should.>
pH either for that matter. These were 5 gallon water changes. So after all my plants started dying off and realizing that pure RO is bad, I have begun doing 5 gallon water changes of about 80% RO and 20% tap. I also fertilize my plants twice a week now with Flourish and have a DIY CO2 system that runs into a Rio powerhead. Plants are doing amazing now, pH lowered immediately to about 7.5. I have about 1 bubble per second into the powerhead, maybe slightly faster. This method seems to be working great for plants and algae, everything looks good.
<Good.>
But I still have hard water. I was worried maybe the sandstone rocks in the tank were doing it, but I put one of the rocks in a bucket of RO water for a week and the water still measured 0 GH.
<Hmm, sandstone can have solubles in it that can raise the hardness of the water. One piece may not, another may.>
So I assume the rocks aren’t a problem.
<In all likelihood they are.>
Was considering getting real driftwood, would that help out a lot?
<Not much, certainly nowhere near using RO water.>
How long does it work for?
<It can benefit your system for quite a while, at a slow rate.>
Or maybe peat. But do these things lower pH and GH?
<Yes.>
As of now I’m at GH 200 ppm, KH 50 ppm, and pH 7.5. Any ideas?
Thanks, Danny.
<Danny, I would remove the sandstone for a while to see if there is a difference. Using RO water should be lowering your hardness, it is leaching in somewhere and the sandstone is likely the culprit. Do read the following articles regarding soft water use. Once you get your problem under control you will likely want a ph buffer to keep you ph stable. Good luck, Scott V.>
http://www.wetwebmedia.com/FWsubwebindex/fwsoftness.htm
http://www.wetwebmedia.com/FWsubwebindex/fwh2oquality.htm

Re: Ick, planted aquaria  3/26/08
Hello All,
I have a well established FW Live Plant & reef aquarium both of which I started with RO/DI water years ago, and adding the appropriate additives daily. Water changes with RO/DI as well. I want to start another, live planted aquarium. If I started with de-chlorinated tap water would this be a problem, or should I utilize RO/DI?
Thanks,
Matt
<Depends on the plants of course but few aquatic plants want very soft water. In general, 5-15 degrees dH general hardness suits most aquatic plants. You also want to have at least some carbonate hardness (3+ degrees KH) simply to moderate against pH swings through biological activities, including photosynthesis. On top of this you will need to check the pH and carbonate hardness so that you can measure the CO2 fertilisation correctly. In other words, you're going to need to mix tap water and RO water to get the right sort of water your fish and plants want. Cheers, Neale.>

API GH Test Results... FW, cichlids of some sort sys.   2/22/08
I plan on using well water for a new 30 gallon cichlid tank due to the alkalinity of the water being 12 with a PH of 7.8.
<Uhh, what sort of cichlids? Some groups like hard, alkaline water... and what is the chemistry of the well water?>
The only problem is that when I tested the water for GH it took 48 drops of reagent to turn the test tube from orange to green. Can someone tell me what this means as it does not compute in the conversion chart supplied with the test kit.
<Need to make an extrapolation... that is, continue the curve for the chart...>
Also, since it seems that my well water is suitable for cichlids, would there be a need to use the Eco Complete Cichlid Substrate or would that raise the levels of KH, GH and PH combined with the well water. Thank you.
<... Please read here: http://wetwebmedia.com/FWSubWebIndex/fwlvstkind2.htm
scroll down to the area on Cichlids... see the various groups? Read re their Systems...
And here: http://wetwebmedia.com/FWSubWebIndex/fwmaintindex.htm
the articles, FAQs files on water quality...
Understanding what your options are, reality is... now, will save you many problems later, and reciprocally, increase your enjoyment, appreciation. Cheers, Bob Fenner>

Water hardness, Discus    2/17/08
Hi. how are you? It's me again. I just wanted to know what is the approximate hardness for discus. Your articles said about 10 degrees GH. Is this the same as 10 degrees dh? Thank you for your help.
<Please read this article before you do anything else:
http://www.wetwebmedia.com/FWSubWebIndex/fwh2oquality.htm
If you don't 100% understand water chemistry, then don't start adjusting the water chemistry in your aquarium. Instead, do a water test on your tap water, and then choose fish that are adapted to those conditions. If your local water is hard, then stick with hard water fish. In any event, there's no such thing as "10 degrees GH" which is why I'm warning you to be careful. I'm guessing you mean "10 degrees dH" which is sometimes referred to as the 'General Hardness', hence 'GH'. But the scale itself is in units dH, which stands for Deutsche Haerte, or 'German Hardness'. Discus vary in their optimal water hardness requirements. Wild-caught fish will need water that is quite soft, ideally 3-10 degrees dH. Tank-bred fish are less fussy, and will do well at up to 15 degrees dH, maybe even slightly more. But regardless of the water hardness, the Discus need water chemistry stability, and that means that you understand -- and can manage -- the Carbonate Hardness of the water (measured in degrees KH). Cheers, Neale.>

Soft Water Tank-- Which Water Is Okay  2/15/08
Hello!
<Hi there Mich>
I was wondering if you could help me out. I have set up a soft water tank for cardinals and Corys and such and mix my hard Los Angeles tap water with the RO water.
<Good technique>
My RO unit filter has sprung a leak, and after a lot of phone calls and taking time off of work to be home for it to be fixed... no one has been able to fix it.
<Mmm, try to find the actual manufacturer... should be written, embossed on the component/s... and contact them (the Net), looking for the replacement part/s>
This is starting to look like it will take awhile to sort out since no has been able to fix it and my work schedule is so high I can't put any more time into searching for someone to repair it right now.
<If it's very old (one of mine was recently...) it may be best/time to replace it entirely>
My question is, which water is safe to buy from the supermarket to mix with my water. I know when you go down the bottle watered aisle some are okay to use, and some are not.
<The simple, cheapest (likely outdoor vending machine) RO or RO blend>
I don't want my fish to be negatively affected while I am working out the RO situation.
Thanks for your help!
Michelle
<Welcome. Bob Fenner>

Adapting, FW, fish, water cond.s... e.g. Discus and hard water   2-9-08
Hi again. I just wanted to know, is it possible for a fish to adapt to a certain water condition? For example, a discus adapting to a slightly hard water. Thank you.
<Up to a point, yes, fish will adapt to a range of water chemistry conditions. But the degree to which this is true depends profoundly on the species in question. Guppies won't adapt to soft/acid water, for example, even though they will do well in hard water, brackish water, and if acclimated carefully, even seawater. Wild-caught Discus simply must be kept in at least somewhat soft, slightly acidic water (i.e., pH 6-6.5, 3-5 degrees dH). Tank-bred Discus are a bit more amenable to harder water, and will do well at pH 7, 10 degrees dH. Given that Discus need much warmer water than most other tropical fish, and are also that bit more sensitive to bullying and nitrate poisoning, there's no point keeping Discus in a "community" setting, so you may as well set up the one tank just for them with precisely controlled water chemistry. Cheers, Neale.>

Re: water hardness     2/16/08
Hi, I am sooo sorry to bother you once more. My fiancée and I had to do something. Anyway, I wanted to know, is gH 4 considered hard or soft? I am so sorry to bother you Dr. Fenner and everyone else. Please forgive me. Thank you once again.
<Please read this article:
http://www.wetwebmedia.com/FWSubWebIndex/fwh2oquality.htm
In the section 'General hardness: the dH scale' you'll see a table where you can translate 4 degrees dH (which is surely what you mean by "gH 4") into a subjective statement of hardness. In your case, the water is quite soft. Do make sure you understand that hardness matters, and you won't be able to keep all tropical fish at this particular water hardness. Livebearers, for example, will do badly in soft water. Cheers, Neale.>

Re: water hardness     2/16/08
Hi again, I just wanted to know, what are some methods of lowering water hardness? Do driftwood and plants lower hardness?
<No. Please do read this article:
http://www.wetwebmedia.com/FWSubWebIndex/fwh2oquality.htm
Questions of this sort indicate that your understanding of water chemistry is extremely hazy. Inexperienced aquarists should NEVER alter water chemistry. Instead, buy fish suited to your ambient water chemistry. Since you have no idea how water chemistry works or how to change it, any changes you make will likely be unstable and rapid, which will cause problems for your fish. Cheers, Neale.>

African Cichlid GH Too High  12/12/07
Hello Neale.
Sorry for bothering you again. I am still in the first week of cycling my Mbuna tank. My water parameters are (Test Kits from NT Labs UK) - pH 8.1, KH 9, GH 25, NO2 1, NO3 5, NH3 0. How can I lower my GH? Should I use RO/DI water?
Thanks you
Ghulam
<Hi Ghulam. Don't bother... GH 25, KH 9 is perfect for Rift Valley cichlids. They will love it. The nitrite is still a bit high though, so be diligent with water changes, and don't add to many fish too quickly! Cheers, Neale.>

Re: Cichlids GH Too High, Africans  12/20/07
Hi Again Neale.
I am now in my 18th day of cycling my Malawi Cichlids tank (Mbuna) and last week my GH was 25, now its 28. I tested my tap water and its 7 GH. Is it still ok for my future fish? Will they breed in these conditions? What can I do if I need to lower it?
Help
Thanks in advance :-)
Ghulam
<Greetings. Malawi cichlids are fine at 25 degrees dH general hardness. On the other hand, if your tap water has a hardness of 7 degrees dH and that rockets up to 25 degrees in the aquarium, then you don't have much water chemistry stability. While it is fine to use calcium-rich substrates in a tank to harden the water, if you're going to go down that avenue, it's best to perform small but frequent water changes. Perhaps two 25% water changes each week. So test the hardness before the water change, immediately after the water change, and then seven days after the water change. If the hardness variation is small (say, between 20 and 25 dH) then don't worry too much. But if the variation is between 10 and 25 dH, that's less good, and you'll want to do smaller water changes but more often. With Malawi cichlids, hardness and pH don't matter too much in terms of exact values, but what does matter is stability. By the way, note "GH" is what you're measuring, General Hardness, and not the scale used, which is "dH", or "Deutsche Härte", literally "German Hardness" in German. One other thing I'd remind you: carbonate hardness ( degrees KH) is somewhat more important with Malawi cichlids than most other aquarium fish. You want a consistent KH of at least 7 degrees and ideally more than 10 degrees KH. Carbonate hardness is the thing that keeps pH steady. Again, anything between 7.5 and 8.5 will suit these fish in absolute terms, but what they hate is dramatic variation, so if you run the tank at pH 8.0 (a good number) then you want to keep variations small, say between 7.8 and 8.2. The tendency will be for the pH to drop across the week, and the water changes will bring the pH back up. A high carbonate hardness inhibits this pH drop; the higher the KH value, the smaller the pH fluctuation. Do also remember if you plan on breeding your Malawi cichlids, then you have to ensure none of the fish can hybridise, and that there are enough females per male to prevent bullying: when groups of one male and one female are kept, the female can be battered to death long before she has any babies! Cheers, Neale.>

Very soft water and Neutral Regulator? 12/07/2007
Hello,
<Ave!>
First time emailing you, but a long time reader.
<I feel like a host on drive-time radio: "First time caller!".>
I have to say, your site has got to be the best and most comprehensive aquaria site on the web.
It's awesome plain and simple.
<Glad you like.>
I've read all the FAQs and think I pretty much understand the roles of buffers and PH in the water. I do still have one question though. The water here in my area of Georgia is very soft. Out of the tap and after sitting a little while, it has PH of 6.8 and the KH and GH both read as 1dh.
<Definitely on the soft side. While great for a lot of fish in terms of matching "the wild", you will need to raise the KH a bit just to get stable conditions.>
I set up a 30 gallon community tank with (1 small Bala to be moved into a 90 gal soon, 1 dwarf Gourami, 2 small silver dollars, and a few Neons) a couple of months ago and started just using dechlorinated tap water during the cycling. Making about 1/3 tank water changes almost daily I still noticed the PH in the tank kept dropping lower so I bought some SeaChem Neutral Regulator and started using it by doctoring the tank (bad Idea as it made the PH jump from 6.5ish to 7.0 in seconds) and then doctoring each batch of new water going into the tank.
<Yes, do always treat water first, then add to tank.>
Once the tank cycled I started watching the Nitrates and not doing as frequent of water changes but still doing about 1/3 each weekend. The PH was staying right at about 7.0, KH was about 4 and GH was about 6 so I was happy enough.
<All sounds good.>
After a trip caused me to miss one of my weekend water changes and still having very low nitrates I decided to see what the tank would be like, nitrate wise, after two weeks. After the two weeks the Nitrates were still low but I checked the PH and it was down around 6.0. My test kit only goes to 6.0 so I'm not sure if it might have actually been lower.
<Ah, a pH crash. All tanks become acidic over time, but the rate depends (mostly) on the carbonate hardness (KH) because that's the prime source of alkalinity, i.e., stuff that neutralises acids.>
Now that may be too much background for this simple question, but I really like the posts from people that include a lot of background because I find it easier to apply to my situation. So, on to the question.
<Yep...?>
Do buffers like SeaChem Neutral Regular dissipate or become less effective over a small amount of time?
<All, repeat all, alkalinity gets used up in an aquarium. What matters is how rapidly the tank is acidifying, and how much alkalinity you are adding. Think of alkalinity as money in your bank account, and acidity as how much you spend, and water changes as your salary that tops up your bank account at fixed intervals. If your bank account contains only a little cash, your expenses will quickly exhaust your savings before pay day. But if you have lots of credit in the bank account, then your expenses won't reduce it to zero before pay day. Likewise, if you have a heavily stocked tank with a low level of alkalinity (e.g., a KH of 3 degrees) then the acids will quickly "use up" the alkalinity in the water, and once that happens, the pH will start dropping until you do a water change to raise the alkalinity back up again. If you're somewhere like Southern England where the KH of the water can be 15 degrees right out the tap, then the alkalinity is so high that even in a heavily stocked tank, the acidity will never get a chance to use up that alkalinity between water changes. Aquarists in Southern England might not have the perfect pH for soft water fish (it's around 8.0) but that pH is at least very, very stable. On the whole, fish care rather more about STABILITY than the precise pH, so finding a way to keep the pH stable is more important that trying to pick some arbitrary value you think might be better, only to have it bounce up and down between water changes.>
I use a gravel vac at each water change and have an UGF so I can look up at the bottom of the tank with a flashlight and there's no accumulation of detritus at this point. There's nothing in the tank that should be lowering the PH as I have fake rocks and plants. There is a piece of driftwood but it has been in a tank for the better part of 10 years so I wouldn't expect that to be the problem, would it?
<Wood can easily reduce pH, even after 10 years. Partly, it's simply decay of organic material, and not just the better known "tannins" produce by wood (the stuff that makes water brown). Try this experiment: put the wood in a bucket of water overnight. If the water is brown the next day, it's still producing tannins. Nitrate is another source of acidity (turning into nitric acid in water). There's really lots of sources of acidity in aquaria. Focusing on any one source is a bit of waste of time. Instead, take an holistic approach, monitor the pH changes, and raise the alkalinity (by raising the KH) to keep the pH stable.>
At this point I was considering adding some seashells or crushed coral to my canister to see if that along with the NR would help.
<Yep, this works well. If you raise the pH to 7.5, and the KH to 5 degrees or so, your standard issue aquarium fish will be fine. Even Neons! More Neons die from Neon Tetra Disease, heat exhaustion, or being eaten by Angelfish than ever die from hard water, and yet everyone thinks they need very soft water to thrive. To breed, yes, but simply to school about happily, they're fine in most anything.>
I also read about using plaster of Paris pucks as long as they were only limestone and gypsum, but wasn't sure about that approach.
<Don't like this at all. Go with crushed oyster shells or crushed coral. Half a cupful in a canister filter should work fine. Place in a media bag (or even the foot from an old pair of pantyhose). Monitor the pH and KH over the next few weeks, and then add or remove the shell/coral as required. It's a bit trial and error because in part it depends on how much you crush the shell/coral, but it is at least cheap and effective. Do also remember that once covered in slime, this media will stop dissolving, so regular cleaning is important. Maybe replace the stuff every 6-12 months, too.>
I tried adding some baking soda to a
separate container just to experiment, but the PH in that container shot way
up to around 8.2-ish. Didn't want to use that in my tank.
<You can use a home-brew Malawi salt mix for precisely this thing. A common Rift Valley salt mix is as follows. For 5 gallons/20 litres of Malawi-like water, the mix is:
* 1 teaspoon baking soda (sodium bicarbonate)
* 1 tablespoon Epsom salt (magnesium sulfate)
* 1 teaspoon marine salt mix (sodium chloride + trace elements)
Stir in the bucket, and then when dissolved, add to the aquarium. Since you don't want the full strength stuff, maybe use only a 25% dosage (i.e., cut the amounts down to one-quarter the listed amounts). Always remember to do water chemistry changes slowly. In this case, water change 25% of the tank with the hardened water and see what happens. Do another 25% a few days later if all is well. What you're aiming for is something with a reasonable amount of KH and a pH that stays stable from week to week. The precise pH doesn't matter, so long as it is somewhere between 6 and 8. What must happen is that it stays there. If the pH drops from 7 to 6 in a week, that's not good. But if it 7.5 on Monday and 7.5 the following Sunday, that's very good, even if the pH sounds "too high" for your fish (it isn't).>
I guess I'm just trying to figure out the longevity of something like Neutral Regulator in my tank and maybe an additional and less expensive way of supplementing that. I'd like to get the 30gallon worked out before I set up my 90gallon.
<I suspect once you've hit on how much of the Malawi Salt mix to use, or how much oyster shell to leave in the filter, you'll be laughing.>
Thanks in advance for any insight you may have and see you around the FAQs.
Lynn
<Good luck, Neale.>

Re: My story and questions... FW Hardness... expl.   11/28/2007
Howdy Neale,
<Andrew,>
I'm very sorry to bother you again, but I got a few things on my mind.
Since the last time we talked, I have added two new internal power filters to my 55 gallon tank, and relocated a lot of my fish to new homes.
<Cool. I'm sure this is the right thing to do.>
Anyhow, I remembered you asking me what my water harness was due to it directly relating to osmoregulation. I was reading on the article about PH and water hardness from Bob Fenner on WWM and it got me kinda confused.
<Oh?>
From what my understanding is, plain and simple English, KH is the waters capability of buffering and maintaining a stable PH. Is this correct?
<Yes and no. Let's start with the terminology. "KH" is the scale, like "Celsius" or "metres". KH is used as a scale for carbonate hardness. One degree of KH means there are as many carbonate and bicarbonate ions in the water as if there was 17.8 milligrams of Calcium carbonate dissolved into the water. So, KH is a scale used to describe the amount of carbonate and bicarbonate in the water, as opposed to general hardness (measured in degrees dH) which is calcium oxide concentration, and salinity, which is sodium chloride concentration. They're all similar but different. All three describe the mineral content of water, but only the carbonate/bicarbonate ions have a substantial impact on pH. That's why you need to measure KH when you're looking to stabilise the pH. Salinity doesn't buffer the aquarium at all, and general hardness salts to only a very limited degree.>
As for GH, this is the value for the amount of minerals in the water. Seems ok or am I wrong?
<Nope. As mentioned above, general hardness (measured with the dH scale) is simply a measurement of a different group of minerals than the ones measured by carbonate hardness.>
Anyhoo, got me a GH & KH test kit from API today and started testing out my waters. If you remember, I had performed a complete substrate swap from crushed coral to natural gravel/pebble from Kordon. Please also note my tank consist of a few pieces of driftwood. I tested my tank water and these were my results. PH: 7.4. Ammonia: 0. Nitrite: 0. Nitrate: around 35ppm. Degrees dKH: 4. Degrees dGH: 14 (off the conversion chart that the kit included, 12 was max).
<In this case 4 degrees KH is relatively low carbonate hardness, while 14 degrees dH is a moderately high level of general hardness. A not uncommon situation. This simply means the water here has a fair amount of mineral content, but the carbonate/bicarbonate content if fairly low.>
I then tested my tap water (what I'm using to perform the water changes with).
dKH: 8 and dGH: 10.
<Very different. Here we have quite a high level of carbonate hardness and only a moderate level of general hardness. Quite possibly the water is coming from a limestone or chalk aquifer where almost all of the mineral content coming into the water is carbonate/bicarbonate salts.>
Now, when mentioning fish's preference of water hardness and stating a value, we are going with my dGH reading. Is that correct?
<Most books tend to quote the general hardness (degrees dH) range, but do also note that high levels of carbonate hardness become more critical for hard water fish like Tanganyikans, livebearers, etc.>
If so, should I be mixing my tap water with purified drinking to be able to bring down the dGH value since it is so high?
<No. It's not that high. Unless you're keeping Cardinal tetras or Apistogramma, your tap water is well within the margins for most standard freshwater fish. The high level of carbonate hardness is actually quite beneficial because it means the pH will be very stable. As a rule, the bigger the fish, the less fussed it is about water chemistry. Since you seem to have a taste for large fish, don't worry about it too much. Acclimate new livestock to your aquarium conditions and then simply use large (50%) water changes on a weekly basis to keep the aquarium water chemistry the same as the tap water chemistry.>
Is my tank water's dGH value higher than my tap water due to the crushed coral that I had previously?
<If there is still some limestone or coral in the tank, then yes, more than possible. A small amount won't make much difference either way, but if there's a lot still lying about, you may want to remove it.>
Is my dKH value from the tank water lower than my tap due to the driftwood?
<Possible. Driftwood releases tannins and these are acids that combine with carbonate and bicarbonate ions. It all depends on the quantity of driftwood. In any case, doing big water changes will minimise this effect.>
I always thought that monitoring PH, Ammonia, Nitrite, and Nitrate was enough to be able to keep fresh water fish and I completely got that idea hands down and how the nitrogen cycle works. Now this hardness is getting me confused.
<Don't let it confuse you. A hard water, freshwater aquarium is about the easiest tank there is to maintain. The carbonate hardness will control pH, and all you need to do is replenish this "alkalinity reserve" by doing large, regular water changes. Easy peasy.>
Please help me if you can. My goal was to have one Jardini and one Scarlet Pleco in the 170 gallon tank. Are my conditions way off at this point?
<They're fine.>
If so, what further steps should I take? Please advise. Thank you so very much for your time and patience. Andy.
<I hope this helps. Do read the article on water chemistry, here: http://www.wetwebmedia.com/FWSubWebIndex/fwh2oquality.htm . Cheers, Neale.>

pH and KH lowering, FW   11/26/07
hello! I have been struggling with PH and KH problems for 2 years now. I used to keep African cichlids so lowering Ph and KH was never a problem-until I decided to get tropical fish instead.
<Oh?>
In my 29 gallon tank, the PH rests at about 8.5 and the KH at 17. Something that shocked me was that the GH tested at 2. (could high PH and soft water exist?)
<Ah, you're getting your wires crossed here. A general hardness test kit measures calcium oxide. Some test kits translate the results into the equivalent hardness in calcium carbonate for historical reasons (I believe this is primarily in the US, but could be wrong). Regardless, the chemicals involved are measuring calcium oxide. So, a general hardness reading of 2 degrees dH means there is a low concentration of calcium oxide. Nothing more, nothing less. A carbonate hardness test kit measures carbonate and bicarbonate salts, and gives the result in a scale based on concentration of calcium carbonate. So, a carbonate hardness of 17 degrees KH means there is a very high concentration of carbonate and bicarbonate salts. Yes, you can have these two things happening at the same time. Imagine a glass of water into which you'd added some salt and some sugar. One test kit might measure salt, the other sugar. Simply because one was high wouldn't mean the other would have to be low, because they're independent variables. While it is *often* true that water with a high carbonate hardness often has a high general hardness as well, there's no natural law that says it has to be so. It's merely something that tends to happen for various geological reasons.>
I also decided to test my tap water. The PH was a perfect 7, KH at 17 and GH at 2. I suspect my high KH to be altering the PH.
<Carbonate hardness does tend to raise pH, yes. But so too will ammonia, so check that.>
I used to have rocks in my 29, but I took them out about a week ago.
They were boiled prior to, but I highly doubt this has anything to do
with the problem.
<Boiling calcareous rocks (such as tufa rock) will have precisely zero effect on whether or not they raise the carbonate hardness.>
I have searched online a bit, and one recommendation was to mix water with Hydrochloric Acid... sounds incredibly risky and dangerous, but could be worth it.
<No, no, no. There's no point forcing the pH downwards if the carbonate hardness is high. Try to understand this critical fact: pH doesn't matter, hardness does. Fish (mostly) don't feel pH (though they certainly don't like rapid pH changes). What directly affects them is hardness, because this controls [a] osmoregulation and [b] the pH stability. Hard water, whether we're talking about high general or carbonate hardness, is not intrinsically a bad thing, either.>
I understand that once the KH is at a stable level, the PH will lower and not bounce back.
<No, quite the reverse. The lower the carbonate hardness, the less stable pH becomes. That's why marine aquarists worry about carbonate hardness so much. It's the "alkalinity reserve" that fixes pH. All tanks have a net tendency towards acidification; tanks with a high carbonate hardness tend to resist this extremely well between water changes, making the fish happy. Tanks with low carbonate hardness experience rapid pH drops, and this makes fish very unhappy. The art of soft water aquaria is finding ways to stabilise pH without relying on carbonate hardness. This is not easy to do! For all practical purposes, community freshwater tanks should be maintained at around 10 degrees dH and upwards of 5 degrees KH where possible.>
Is there any product/chemical/other method you could recommend?
<None. First get a better understanding of your water chemistry and the environment in your tank. For example, are the rocks calcareous? Is the substrate? Then decide if there's really any point changing the hardness, given hard water tanks are more stable environments. Livebearers (poeciliids and goodeids!), Central American cichlids, Rift Valley cichlids, rainbowfish, Goldfish, Pufferfish, gobies and brackish water fish will all prefer hard water conditions. The majority of barbs and catfish couldn't care less, and do fine in hard water, including things like Corydoras, plecs, and most hardy Asian Puntius spp. Choosing fish from this list gives you masses of scope for fun, colourful, weird, and challenging species. Since you won't be messing with water chemistry, your life is much easier, and you can do big water changes to optimise environmental conditions in the tank. A win/win situation.>
PS: RO/DI water is not really an option...
<Collecting rainwater works well if you want to keep a soft water tank. Cheap and easy, and very 'green'.>
Thanks in advance
-Jon
<Cheers, Neale.>

GH/KH concern with new Betta – 10/28/07
Hello :),
I have a 6 gallon tank in my office with a heater (80 degree water), an internal filter stuffed with filter floss (for low current), a few Java Ferns, an Anubias, and some Vals.
<Nice>
I mixed 3/4 R/O water with 1/4 Spring water, and I have had a PH level of 7.2 for a week now. (Without the mixture of water, the PH of my tap water was pretty high at above 8.
<Wow. Liquid rock>
Even the Spring water with the lowest PH reading I found, 7.0, jumped to over 8 in my filtered tank.)
My GH and KH readings are at about 53.7ppm (if I'm understanding the API test kit.)
Some of the articles on the internet seem to indicate that these GH/KH levels are fine, and others would seem to suggest a raising of the GH.
<Mmmm>
I understand that there are products like Kent R/O right and GH Botanica plus from your website. But I know that Bettas like somewhat soft water, and I'd rather not affect my PH if I don't have to, so I'm wondering if I can leave this alone, or if that would be harmful to my new friend over time?
Thank you,
Patricia
P.S. I will be cycling with Bio-Spira, and Thanks for keeping up such a great website!
<Thank you... and I think you are fine here with the calcium and general hardness... for the plants, Betta... I would not change your stated protocol for mixing water. Cheers, Bob Fenner>

Re: GH/KH concern with new Betta – 10/30/2007
Hello,
Thank you so much for your quick response :). It's a scary moment, when you think after weeks of research, you may have actually made things worse for your fish! Thank you for sharing so much of your time with those of us who need it :)
Thanks again :),
Patricia
<Am very pleased to help you, others to improve their experience, the lives to the life in their care. Cheers, Bob Fenner>

Stealth Cat Shadows Corys – 9/24/07
Hi there Neale,
<Hello Lisa,>
Hope you are well.
<Likewise.>
A couple of weeks ago, I installed lunar lights into one of my communities tanks so I could observe nocturnal behavior. Very interesting!
<Indeed...?>
Last evening one of the two Microglanis iheringi made an appearance. When it does appear, it quickly scales the length of the large piece of driftwood and dashes about the substrate chasing everyone off. He is quite the character. His behavior last night was unusual in that he was literally shadowing one Cory at a time - as if he were trying to latch onto to their bellies in a horizontal position (his dorsal fin to their bellies). The Corys didn't like it naturally - they raced about the tank until the bumblebee gave it up. The bumblebee tried this on 2 or 3 Corys within a 10 minute timeframe.
<Hmm... more likely schooling behaviour. Microglanis iheringi is a social species, and some small catfish will form mixed schools if conspecifics aren't available. I bet if you added two or four more Microglanis iheringi, you'd find them schooling together and ignoring the Corydoras.>
I woke up at 4am and gazed into the tank and the bumblebee cat was exhibiting the same behavior.
<OK.>
Do you suppose this is about aggression? Territoriality? Mating?!
<None of the above. Microglanis iheringi is completely peaceful (except of course to small fish it can eat!).>
And may I please ask you a question pertaining to the Mbunas and stabilizing their pH at 8.0-8.2 and appropriate kH?
<Feel free.>
For the past couple of months, I've incorporated crushed coral and shells into the filtration and tank however the highest I can raise the pH with this method is 7.8. I've been able to elevate the kH only about "5 notches" which isn't close to ideal level. Should I begin to add a chemical buffer to necessitate the ideal levels?
<What's the precise value? One of the misunderstandings in the hobby is the idea Lakes Malawi and Tanganyika are incredibly hard, with massively high levels of carbonate hardness. While they certainly are comparatively hard compared with, say, the Amazon River, the general hardness (dH) values of the two lakes aren't incredibly high, around 6-10 degrees dH for Malawi and 10-12 degrees dH for Tanganyika. My local tap water, drawn from a chalk aquifer, is harder than this, around 18-20 degrees dH! What makes the two lakes special is the composition of the salts in them, in particular their relatively high levels of carbonate hardness. The salts in Tanganyika are about 2/3rds carbonates, and in Malawi about 4/5ths carbonates. This has a particular effect: while the waters in these lakes might not be phenomenally hard, they are extremely stable in terms of changes in water chemistry such as pH. Anything about 8 degrees KH should fulfill this criterion comfortably. Higher levels simply provide more stability, but up to a point Malawian cichlids are fairly adaptable (Tanganyikan cichlids tend to be less so). Because coral sand and crushed shells dissolve slowly, there's an argument for doing small water changes more frequently if you find the pH and hardness fluctuates too much between water changes (i.e., if your local water is quite soft). In this case, doing 25% water changes instead of 50% ones might make sense.>
Thank you and look forward to hearing from you!
<Hope this helps!>
Lisa.
<Neale>

Re: Stealth Cat Shadows Corys – 09/25/07
Thank you for your response Neale and the detailed information.
<Not a problem.>
With the crushed coral, I've essentially taken the Mbunas (Lake Malawi) from extremely soft water to a level to about 107.4 kH or 5 degrees dH which falls below the ideal 8 degrees dH you mentioned.
<Does not compute... does not compute! There's no such thing as 107.4 degrees KH. That would be a solid piece of limestone! The KH scale as far as aquarium water goes runs from 0 at the soft end to over 20 degrees KH, which would be very hard water. Each degree KH is about 17.9 milligrams per litre calcium carbonate, so 107.4 mg/l CaCO3 would be about 6 degrees KH. That is fairly low, and a bit short of what you want for Mbuna.>
The pH holds at 7.8. I change 25% of the water every other week. With this notable incompatibility, shall I hold my current position or in fact introduce a buffer/hardener?
<You have two ways forward, each with its pros and cons. You could improve the chemical filtration in the system. If the KH is staying too low, that means the water isn't passing through enough crushed coral. An undergravel filter is the classic way to fix this: a substrate of coral sand on top of a gravel tidy on top of coral rubble will comfortably buffer the water to a nice high pH. This is the system that has been used in marine and Rift Valley cichlid aquaria for generations. On the plus side, this works well and is cheap and easy to set up. On the down side, it requires a bit of maintenance, particularly if the undergravel filter *is not* part of a reverse flow filtration system. The problem is undergravel filters suck up the dirt, so the substrate needs cleaning periodically (typically a good stir once a month, and a deep clean once every year or two). The second approach is to add Malawi salts. These are, in my opinion, more effective and economical than buffering liquids. Since you're "halfway there" in terms of providing the right water conditions, you probably won't need a full dose of the salts to get a nice high KH. So mix a half dose into the next water change, and see what happens. Obviously avoid doing a rapid change in water chemistry -- changes to the better, if too rapid, can still be damaging to fish. So do a 25% water change with the hardened water, and then another next week, and so on until the water is completely replaced.>
The Microglanis iheringi are rather tough to find...
<Funnily enough, a local pet store in London I visited yesterday, Wholesale Tropicals had some! So anyone in the UK interested in these lovely fish... that's where to go!>
I so much enjoy watching the catfishes' behavior - the Plecos (they finally took to the lettuce!), the Corys and these bumblebees.
<Ah, the joys of catfish. Addictive, aren't they?>
I NEED bigger tanks for more fish! I am experiencing what Joyce Wilkerson calls a "marine décor explosion." !! (Clowns will be next adventure.)
<Tell me about it! Fishkeeping, once you're on a roll, is bad for the bank balance. But it's like having your own personal zoo, with fascinating critters from all four corners of the Earth. It's a great hobby.>
Thank you very much for your help Neale!
Lisa
<Well, hope this helps, Neale>

Water Chemistry, FW... hardness, pH    9/7/07
Hello to whoever answers,
<That would be me.>
I am very new to this and apologies for my unsophisticated questions. I did a test on the current water in my five gallon tank. Everything was great except for the nitrates being a bit high and the tank is due tomorrow for cleaning so that may fix that reading but the alkalinity of the water is out of sight at 300.
<Please understand that isn't "high" in a general sense. It is high relative to what soft water fish like tetras and angelfish enjoy. But it is just perfect for hard water fish such as livebearers and African lake cichlids.>
I have a water softener but do have an outside faucet that has only hardwater. I looked at ph adjusters but the instructions were very vague.
<Don't ever used water from a domestic water softener in a fish tank. It is very screwy in terms of dissolved chemicals. It IS NOT the same thing as soft water. All domestic water softeners do is replace one kind of mineral (the sort that furs up pipes) with another kind (which doesn't). As far as the fish are concerned, it's just really strange water with far too much sodium and not enough calcium salts.] Always use the unsoftened water from the drinking water tap.>
I have Chuck the Betta and four platys. They look fine but as I failed with a betta in another tank, I know that can change quickly.
<Platies will thrive in hard water. If you have "liquid rock" as we call hard water here in England, just stick with fishes that like hard water. Apart from platies, the other livebearers will do well, as will rainbowfish, gobies, glassfish, and various cichlids. Five gallons is, of course, way too small for anything other than a single Betta. It is absolutely not acceptable for platies, which need at least 10 gallons. They are active, social fish than need swimming room. The males are also somewhat aggressive, so having some swimming space helps here, too.>
My questions are how much ph reducer is safe to get the ph down to 120?
<Please don't. Until you completely understand how water chemistry works, don't try and change it. Since pH isn't measured on any scale that includes 120, you clearly don't understand how water chemistry works yet. So leave well enough alone. Buy fish that like hard, alkaline water. Use the unsoftened water. Do frequent water changes. That's plenty enough to master just now.>
Is the hardwater preferable?
<99 times out 100, yes, it's better to buy fish that match your ambient water conditions. They will be healthier and breed more readily. Moreover, you can do big, regular water changes (50% weekly is ideal) without worrying about changes in water chemistry or the expense of softening water.>
Is this a reason for the sudden mess of algae?
<No.>
I also need to warm the water but is there any heater safe for such a small tank?
<You don't have a heater yet? Go, now, buy one.>
I got one with the tank and it is a 25 watt Slim-Tech.
<Sounds fine.>
Thank you very much,
<You're welcome>
Linda
<Neale>

Water Chemistry II... pH   9/7/07
Thanks Neale,
<Hello Linda,>
I got the PH reducer number of 120 off the test strip bottle.....Quick Dip.
<Does not compute... does not compute... The pH scale runs from 0 to 14. There's no 120. I suspect you are reading something else by mistake, perhaps general or carbonate hardness (both of which could be 120 mg/l).>
I have done book and internet research but everyone seems to have answers that vary just enough that I get more confused than informed. I am glad I found WWM. I promise not to become a permanent feature.
<Hah!>
I do have to throw in how disappointing it is how little correct information comes from the places where you get these poor fish.
<Indeed. But you have to remember the motives. Pet stores want you to keep coming back to buy stuff. They want you to have just enough success to stay interested. But they have no vested interest in your fish staying healthy provided you keep buying more fish from them. People like us here at WWM don't get paid for what we're doing, we do it because we want you to enjoy your hobby and your fish to stay healthy. Who you gonna trust?>
I will switch to the untreated source of water and test it to see what it is like too.
<Good.>
Will the platies do ok until next month when I am rich again and can get a larger tank?
<Yes.>
And cycle a new tank. I have the 5 gallon tank on a regular sturdy table. Will a ten gallon tank need more support?
<Quote possibly. Depends on the table of course. If it's strong and well built, could be fine. If it's a rickety thing, then don't bank on it. I have a 10 gallon tank on a cheap chipboard TV stand thing, and that works fine. So there are plenty of budget options out there. Just buy something designed to support serious weight. TVs are heavy, hence the TV stand was a good choice.>
Are four platies too many for ten gallons?
<Four will be fine in there, you could probably keep twice that many without problems, provided you kept on top of water changes and didn't overfeed them.>
Is the 25 watt heater sufficient for ten gallons?
<Depends on your air temperature. If your home is centrally heated and never gets that cold, should be fine. If the tank is in an unheated room, might not be so effective. But my guess is you'll be fine.>
Sorry I wasn't using it but I was afraid of "cooking" the poor things.
<That's what a thermometer is for. Get a cheap sticky LCD one (costs about $1) and stick it on the tank.>
I need to move their tank as it is too close to a door and in the winter may be too drafty.
<Quite possibly.>
When I clean the tank today, I am going to clean the algae off their rocks and plants with a new toothbrush and just plain water. Is that ok?
<Leave the algae: your platies will be eating it, and it's very good for them. They are vegetarians in the wild, and 50% of their diet in aquaria should be algae-based, either algae itself or "livebearer" flake food that is made from algae. The only place algae needs to be removed is the front glass. I leave it everywhere else, because it looks nice and the fish like it. Also, I don't like creating work for myself.>
I have read that turning their light on less will help with regrowth.
<No, doesn't work that way. Instead of green algae, which the platies eat, you end up with low-light diatoms, which platies don't eat. Algae is harmless. Sit back, and learn to ignore it. I'm sure you have lots of other projects you could be doing. Scraping off algae is not one of them.>
I have seen Magnets for sale for algae and have no idea if that is workable. Anything else I can do?
<I use a plastic fuzzy kitchen scourer thing for cleaning algae. Cheap and cheerful.>
When I prepare the new tank, is it better to use bottle bacterial preparations or water from the current tank?
<Take some of the filter media from the old tank (30-50%) and stick into the new tank. Much better than bottles, and a million times better than water.>
How will I know when the bacteria is where it is supposed to be?
<Do what I say above, and it's a sure thing.>
I knew nothing about cycling with the five gallon tank and was lucky all of them survived and want to make a move better for them this time.
<Very good.>
I really enjoy my fish and intend to get better at this. My fish and I thank you for improving their world.
Linda
<Glad to help. Enjoy your hobby. Neale>

Re: Fantails - pH and Hardness – 08/17/07
Hi Neale,
Sorry to be a pest. Just want to check in with you regarding the hardness and pH status of the fantails tank. The crushed coral has brought the pH to nearly 8.0. This exceeds their range of 7.6 (obviously) and the hardness has not increased from very soft. Am I endangering the fantails with this pH level? They are happy however I want to make sure this is the right thing.
Thanks Neale. You are great. :)
Lisa.
<A pH of 8.0 is fine for goldfish. Here in England the pH of our very chalky water can get to 8.2, if not more, and goldfish positively thrive in it. It's important not to fixate on pH; it's the total dissolved solids that actually matter biologically, the pH is simply a useful first-pass approximation. Anyway, the calcium carbonate should be raising the carbonate hardness (that's the KH test kit). The dH test kit is measuring calcium oxide, which crushed coral doesn't contain so much of. The main thing here is that the dissolution of coral into freshwater is slow. If you're doing a 50% weekly water change, there will be only a modest increase in pH and hardness over time. The main reason for adding the crushed coral is to act as a buffer; if the water becomes acidic (which is normal in aquaria) the coral will prevent it. Dissolution is faster in soft/acid water than hard/alkaline water. So it's more an insurance policy than anything else. Bottom line, if the fish are happy, and the pH stays between 7.5 and 8, and the KH is around 5-15, and the dH around 10-20, your goldfish will be thriving. Cheers, Neale>

Re: Increasing Water Hardness, for Mbuna f's   8/13/07
Hi Neale,
<Lisa,>
The pH in the Mbunas tank is beginning to rise with the use of the crushed coral as you prescribed.
<Very good.>
Strangely, the water hardness remains extremely soft with no change. Is this unusual?
<Yes, unusual. Crushed coral consists almost entirely of a mineral called aragonite, a variety of calcium carbonate. Aragonite is "unstable" in geological terms and dissolves readily, in doing so, the concentration of calcium ions and carbonate ions will go up. This is what is making the water's pH rise. You should also see an increase in general hardness (which measures, among other things, calcium ions) and carbonate ions (which measures, alongside bicarbonate, carbonate ions). Anything else doesn't really fit the science (at least as I understand it). Regardless, don't worry about it too much. Crushed coral is self-buffering (if that's such a term) meaning it won't raise the pH beyond about 8.2, however much you add. This is well within the preferred zone for Mbuna, so you're laughing. The main thing is watch the fish, and check their behaviour is normal; if it is, assume the water chemistry is fine. Provided you do regular water changes, and perhaps once a month clean out the crushed coral, maybe changing 50% of it and hot-water cleaning the rest, everything should happen nicely in the background.>
Looking forward to hearing from you! Thank you. Lisa.
<Cheers, Neale.>

High pH but soft water
Hi Crew,
<Ave.
I've been reading through your FAQ pages on water chemistry and have found a lot of info so far - thanks for all your efforts! I had an additional question or three (or four) that I didn't see the answer to.
<OK.>
A little background: we have two 55-gallon freshwater tanks. One holds a single full-size Oscar, and the other is a community tank with cherry barbs, gold barbs, platys, neon tetras, Cory cats, and several healthy live plants and some real wood mixed in with the plastic plants. Oh, the Oscar tank also has a large piece of real wood. Both receive excellent filtration (Fluval canister filters as well as HOB filters), steady heat, regular maintenance, and weekly partial water changes. Ammonia and nitrite = 0, nitrates < 10 ppm.
<All sounds fine.>
So... Our water has a pH in the range of 8.4 - 8.8 right out of the tap - I read elsewhere the FAQs that apparently the water in Massachusetts is purposely adjusted this way to protect the pipes. However, the water also happens to be very soft - only about 1 dGH and 2-3 dKH. This high pH, soft water is a less-than-usual combo as I understand it, but not impossible to get. Perhaps the city is also adding a softener to the water.
<High pH and low hardness can come about in multiple ways. Sometimes its an artifact of the test kit being used: if your water has a high permanent hardness (chlorides etc.) but a low temporary hardness (carbonates etc.) a General Hardness (dH) test kit will register "high" hardness but a Carbonate Hardness (KH) kit will register a "low" hardness. Soft water with high levels of ammonia can also register a high pH, because ammonia raises pH even though it doesn't make water hard. Domestic water softeners also mess around with water chemistry in ways producing something not really suitable for fishkeeping. In any event, the water you have isn't acceptable. At the very least, I'd be added a carbonate substrate to the aquarium and/or adding "Malawi" salts to the water to raise the KH so that the water will be much better buffered than it is now. I'd then be selecting hard water fishes such as livebearers or Tanganyikans or rainbowfish that will thrive in the resulting water conditions. By doing this, the mechanics becomes a no-brainer and I can forget about water chemistry.>
Anyway, Question #1: My first main question is about the softness of the water. I understand about low KH and the risks of rapidly dropping pH if there is no buffering capacity in the water. But is there anything INHERENTLY harmful to fish about very soft water with low GH? If soft water is bad for other reasons, what are those reasons? And is it worse to have low GH or low KH?
<Not if the fish have adapted to it. Don't expect the fish to breed readily, but who knows?>
I'm asking because in both our tanks, the water ends up being about 7.4 - 7.7, and I have tested the pH regularly and have never observed a crash or even a significant change in it from week to week, even with all the wood in the tanks.
<Indeed, the wood is acidifying the water, and if you're going from pH 8-point something to 7.4 between water changes, that's really not good. Raising the ambient KH should prevent this.>
So either my test strips showing low hardness/alkalinity are wrong (although they're new), or the system is simply stable enough week-to-week by itself to hold its pH steady.
<Large water changes "temporally buffer" chemistry changes by diluting them. Whether you consider this stable or not depends on your point of view.>
However, we have had some untimely demises in our community tank, and I'm wondering if it's because the low GH of the water.
<Probably a factor, yes.>
I really can't think of anything else, since as I mentioned before, all the other water chemistry parameters are pretty good except for this low GH/KH thing. If the softness of the water is not inherently harmful, then I'd rather not mess with it by adding buffers, for fear of raising the already-kind-of-high pH, you know?
<Raising pH/KH hardness is usually easy. Add coral sand to the tank, and then a reduced dose of Lake Malawi salts to each water change. Experiment to see how much of these salts you need each time. But since high KH water is inherently chemically stable, once you've cross this bridge, it's pretty much idiot-proof. Going brackish water, i.e., adding marine salt mix, does the same thing, and in this case you could keep salt-tolerant things like mollies, guppies, gobies, etc. as well as standard brackish water fare.>
However, if soft water damages the fish in some way, then I'll gladly add something to
change it. What do you think? (The one thing I have read about soft water is that some fish are more likely to breed at certain hardness levels, but we're not breeding fish right now so that's not really a concern.)
<Soft water only "harms" fishes that need high levels of hardness (livebearers, goldfish, etc.) But soft water is also like balancing spinning plates on a pole, you have to keep testing and adjusting stuff all the time. Fish hate rapid changes in pH and hardness far more that they dislike being stuck at something suboptimal on a permanent basis. For example, you can have a tank of cardinal tetras in hard (20dH) alkaline (pH 8) water for years and they'll be fine. But suddenly reduce the hardness to the optimal values for breeding (~2-3dH, pH 6) and they'll die even though those conditions are "better". In fishkeeping, focusing on stability is always better than focusing on the numbers.>
Question #2: Regarding the pH range that I mentioned, most of the advice from the WWM crew that I've read on other pages here seems to strongly lean toward leaving it alone rather than trying to add pH adjusters to bring it down. It seems like it's on the high side, but not too terrible, and fish should be able to adjust to it. Is this also your recommendation for me?
<Up to a point, yes. Because you have a very low KH, I just don't think your tank will be stable in the long term. I've seen pH crashes in tanks too often to be comfortable recommending this as a way forward. It's do-able, but it isn't easy or reliable.>
Question #3: More broadly, I have a question about using something like pH Down in the first place. It seems to me that the whole point of having an alkaline buffer in your water is to prevent shifts in pH, right?
<Well, "point" is perhaps not the right word. Water with high carbonate hardness has a high (= basic rather than acidic) pH, i.e., something over 7. The problem is in common speech we treat "alkalinity" and "high pH" as synonyms, which they're not.>
So oftentimes you hear about somebody adding pH Down (which I think is basically just acid) to their tank and it doesn't do anything, because the acid is just being buffered.
<Correct. It's almost always a waste of time and money unless you've softened the water. Acid buffers are useful when you have a soft water aquarium (say, around 5 dH) and the acid buffer stops the water pH dropping below, say, pH 6.>
So, if someone adds enough pH Down to finally "overcome" the buffer and actually change the pH, won't they be exposing the tank to further, more rapid shifts in pH, because now the buffer's been all used up?
<Yes. This is buffering capacity. Roughly speaking, water at 6 KH has twice the ability to neutralise acid as water at 3 KH.>
Wouldn't this kind of defeat the whole purpose of having a buffer to begin with?
<Buffers work both ways. You can have buffers that fix the pH at acidic values or neutral values as well as basic values. So it depends on what you're after. If you're keeping Malawi cichlids, a buffer that "fixes" the tank at pH 8 is ideal, but if you're breeding Apistogramma, you want something that fixes the tank at pH 6. It's horses for courses.>
Not to mention the fact that by adding all these chemicals, the osmotic pressure in the tank has now been raised way up and stress has been put on the fish that wouldn't normally have been there? So correct me if any of this is wrong, but if that's the case then it seems like using something like pH Down should be done only in an emergency. Thoughts?
<Water chemistry changes SHOULD NEVER be done in response to an emergency. Water chemistry changes are something you do slowly and deliberately to create conditions for certain things, like breeding fish. Otherwise water chemistry STABILITY is what matters.>
Okay, one more. Question #4: Now, if you do think that some kind of buffer is warranted for my tanks to raise the hardness of the water (my first thought would be crushed coral in the canister filter), it seems all but certain that it will also raise the pH, correct? I'm afraid that since the pH already high, adding something this could do more harm than good. It would require using pH Down or something - and see my above questions about concerns over that.
<Coral sand is a buffering agent, because it adds calcium carbonate (among other things) to the water. You can add 5 tonnes of the stuff to the aquarium and the pH will only rise to around 8 and then stop. Buffers *resist changes in both directions*, they don't force changes constantly upwards (or downwards). This is why the pH in a Lake Malawi aquarium is steady: the KH in the water is actually fixing it and stopping it from either going up or down. In your case, creating a tank with a high KH and a pH around 8 would be great, because you'd have a beautifully stable aquarium in which you could keep all sorts of hard water fishes. Have a read of this: http://www.wetwebmedia.com/FWSubWebIndex/fwhardness.htm and then this: http://www.wetwebmedia.com/FWSubWebIndex/fwh2oquality.htm .>
This is a lot to be asking at once, I know, but I've seen that you folks prefer it when people ask all the related questions they have in a single email. So, there it is. Any info you have would be greatly appreciated. Thanks so much and talk to you soon.
- Chris
<Hope this helps. Good luck! Neale>

High pH and Hard Water – 07/18/07
Dear WWM crew,
The information I have been reading from the site is really very helpful.
<Cool.>
I have 38 gallon freshwater tank, only 3.5 months old, with10 mollies (about 1" long) and 150 fries, 12 plants and 2 driftwoods in it. Recently I tested my water and found the PH is far too high, about 8.7
<That's quite high, but should be within the range for Mollies. Since yours are breeding like rabbits, you obviously must be doing something right.>
I read lots of information and realized top-off water may have caused the PH to increase as our water is very hard. (Our tap water: close to PH 8.0 / alkalinity 300 ppm)
<pH 8.0 and alkalinity 300 ppm is close to paradise for Mollies. Add some marine salt mix (around 6 grammes per litre) and your Mollies will wet their underpants with joy.>
Test results:
Nitrate: 40 ppm (Kind of high)
Nitrite: 0 ppm
Ammonia: 0 ppm
Total hardness: 250 ppm
Total alkalinity: above 300 ppm
PH: 8.7
(I added Seachem Life Bearer Salt to the tank water.)
<Life Bearer Salt is expensive for what it is. Just use plain vanilla marine salt mix, which you can buy in nice big boxes and tubs to get the most economy.>
I would like to lower PH to 7.6~8.0 safely and try to avoid using chemicals if possible. I am setting up an RO/DI unit. However, I do not know what the correct way is to use RO water to correct the situation here. Hope your great knowledge and opinions can help me.
<Adding RO water will reduce the pH and hardness. But just so we're clear here, RO water isn't the same as softened water from a domestic water softener (a lot of folks get the two confused). You'll need to do some trial and error to see what works, but as a first-pass, mix 25% RO to 75% tap water and see what you get. All this said, unless your Mollies are clearly unhappy, I wouldn't be overly concerned about it. I'm a bit confused about why your aquarium has such a high pH though. If you're doing 50% water changes each week, and your tap water has pH 8.0 when fresh, then I'd expect the pH in the tank to be around 8.0. Driftwood sometimes lowers the water pH. I can't for the life of me understand why the pH would go up so high. Let's cross off one possibility though -- you *are* using a dechlorinator that removes chloramine as well? If you're in an area where chloramine is used to treat water, failure to do so leads to ammonia in the water, and this raises the pH.>
I know this correction should be carried out gradually. A few questions I couldn't find answers on this site, as most information on RO unit seems to be about Marine tank.
<pH and hardness changes should be done gradually, yes, but Mollies are true euryhaline fish meaning they adapt almost instantly. So do a 25% water change one day and then another 25% water change the next and you'll be fine. I've adapted Mollies between seawater and freshwater *within an hour*.>
* Do I need to add anything to RO water before pouring in the tank?
(For top-offs, it is okay to use directly in the tank. Am I right? What about water changes?)
<RO should be safe. Tap water should be treated.>
* Water change using RO water - What's the safest amount I should try each time?
<Never ever add RO water straight to the aquarium *except* when making good small losses from evaporation. Mix the RO water with the tap water, and add *that* to the tank. I personally like to do 10-15% water changes every day or two on some tanks, but other times as much as 50% a week. There's really no maximum amount provided the water going into the tank has roughly the same pH and hardness of the water taken out.>
* What's the ideal alkalinity I should try to achieve?
<For Mollies, the harder the better. They don't care.>
Anything else I should be aware about using RO/DI water to reduce the alkalinity and PH?
<Not that I can think of. Just mix it with tap water first, and test the result to see it's something good for mollies. Around pH 8, 20 dH, SG 1.003-1.005 is just about perfect for them.>
Thanks a lot for your help in advance!
Kathy
<Good luck, Neale>

Re:  High PH and Hard Water – 07/18/07
Dear Neale,
<Hello Kathy,>
Thanks so much for your very detailed reply. I understand why you are confused about my tank water PH going up so high if my tap water PH is only 8.0. In May I went back to Taiwan visiting my family and found an aquarium product, which is an ecosystem machine. The company claims that this machine along with the filter I am using will create a natural environment in the tank. So, there shouldn't be any water changes needed except for top-offs.
<Ah, well, it sounds as if this machine isn't real helpful. I'm *very* dubious about these machines that promise to remove the need for water changes. If you want to carry on using, then go ahead, but I'd still be doing 50% water changes each week simply to keep the pH and hardness at healthy levels. If the machine is removing some nitrate in the background, so much the better, but I personally wouldn't consider any machine an alternative to water changes.>
I set up this machine on June 1 and haven't really made any "reasonable" water changes. I started my first tank in February and now I have 3 tanks...
(still thinking about getting one more, just can't stop... love to watch fish swimming) I read lots of books, magazines and information on website to help me, as I am very new in this. I know regular water change is important, so while I am testing this machine I bought in Taiwan, I am still concerned about not making any water change at all. Therefore, instead of vacuuming gravel and making water changes, I used power vacuum to clean the gravel only, which took out the debris from the tank without taking any water out.
<The debris at the bottom of the tank is harmless. It looks messy, which is why we remove it, but it's the "end" of the food chain, and doesn't affect water quality either way. It's the *invisible* dirt that causes problems, the nitrate, nitrite, ammonia, phosphate, etc. in the water. These are things water changes remove. I just don't trust a machine to do this. So please, go back to doing water changes. It will make life easier for everyone.>
Since the machine was set up, everything has seemed to work fine until I found the PH has been continuously going up. I started to search some answers and information from books or website. What I was told is "Top-off water" would continuously add more and more minerals to my tank and cause PH to increase if my tap water is very hard. That is why I started to think "our hard water" is the cause and wanted to use a safe way to correct the problem.
<I think your analysis is sound. In "the wild" calcium carbonate is removed from the water in a variety of ways, for example by plankton turning it into what (eventually) becomes limestone. Some gets converted in CO2 gas as well. But in the closed system of an aquarium these "sinks" as they're called don't exist. The calcium carbonate will keep accumulating. Water changes keep the calcium carbonate level fixed, because the water going out is matches by the water going in. But if you're adding calcium carbonate in the top-up water while never removing any through water changes, then that calcium carbonate will just accumulate. Whatever the mechanism, I don't like this at all. Do the water changes!>
I still make water changes for the other 2 tanks, so the PH isn't that high like the 38 gallon one which has the special eco machine set-up. What I want to do is try to bring the PH back down to 8.0 by making some gradual small water changes using mixed RO and tap water. Once PH is 8.0 and stable, perhaps top-off water can be 100% RO water?
<See, you have experimental data! I think the "eco machine" sounds a fun toy to play with, but I'd be doing water changes as well to find a "happy medium" where I get good water quality *and* the right pH/hardness levels. I just don't believe -- at all -- any aquarium can be safe without *any* water changes. If such things worked, we'd all be using them. I'm not saying it's a con or dangerous, but I think you should use some common sense. It clearly is causing a problem here, and the fix is nothing more difficult than a water change. So do water changes... see what happens, and change your maintenance regime accordingly.>
The aquarium store in Taiwan I visited has several big tanks with eco machine in them. Water is very clear and tanks have been more than 4 years old. They did not make any water changes at all. That's what made me so interested in giving it a try... as if no water change is needed and fish can really live in a very natural environment; it's certainly a very relaxing/enjoyable thing to keep as many tanks as I like.
<Fish will adapt to all kinds of environments, given time. I read a story in an old TFH book about some marine fishes (Sweetlips, I think) that had been placed in an outdoor pond filled with salt water. This pond was somewhat neglected, and eventually rain had made the water so dilute in the pond that things like water lilies were growing. And how were the marine fish? Apparently just fine! They'd grown to a large size and were thriving and happy pets. Does this mean people should keep marine fish in freshwater ponds? Of course not, but it's an example of how fish can adapt given time. Your mollies have clearly adapted well to the 'eco machine' tank you're running, and since they're breeding happily, no harm seems to have been done. But if this was me, I'd be doing the water changes.>
Hope I cleared your questions in your mind... and the path I am going is right for my fish's well-being. Mollies are very "inexpensive", but I love them and want to make them happiest mollies if I can. I started with 3 mollies... now I have more than 160 in total. (Never managed to count them one by one though...)
<Mollies are excellent fish, among my favourites, and I'm glad you're enjoying them. They've been massively mistreated by the hobby in some ways, and too often I hear stories about sick mollies or aggressive mollies or mollies in too-small tanks.>
Thanks for your help and time in sharing your experience with me.
Kathy
<Well, good luck with it all. I heartily recommend doing a bit of experimentation with water changes to see if that helps. Cheers, Neale>

Hard Water Options - 01/27/2007
I have very hard water, 350ppm.
<Pretty hard indeed.>
I have tried to lower it with aquarium salts but it's not coming down.
<Total hardness is a measure of all of the dissolved solids in the water - thus *adding* more dissolved solids (salt, in this case) will not bring that count down - rather, it will raise it.  Also, some fish aren't too pleased about a great deal of salt.  In fact, some are downright intolerant of it.  A bit, say, one to two tablespoons per ten gallons, is perfectly fine, though.>
So my next question is what are the best tropical fish for hard water.
<Lots of options available to you....  I'd recommend avoiding most tetras and other sensitive, soft water fishes.  There are a few fishes that are very commonly bred in captivity, like angelfish and Gourami, which would be okay with the hardness, though they'd prefer softer water.  Most livebearers (platies, swordtails, mollies, guppies) would love the hardness.  Or, if the tank is large, east African cichlids from lakes Malawi, Tanganyika, or Victoria would be well worth looking into; some of them are very, very beautiful, and they actually *need* hard water with a high pH.  There really are tons of options for you!  Wishing you well,  -Sabrina>

Hard Water With High Phosphates Won't Soften  9/6/06
I've spent a good deal of my morning reading through www FAQ pages as well as any other source I can find online to help with my high phosphates.  Here's the deal, I have two 55 gallon tanks, one is a planted discus tank, the other, a nice little reef tank.  I've managed to keep the water quality on my reef tank at optimal levels by introducing Chaeto to my refug.
Works like a charm.  The freshwater tank is another story all together.  I have about half the 55 gallon planted, DIY CO2, 4 various sized discus, 10 cardinal tetras, 5 Glo-lights, 5 black neons, and 3 Cory cats.
I am currently using PhosGuard (SeaChem) and it works very well, but the problem is my source water, everything out of my tap runs phosphate, ammonia, and pH off the charts (literally), because of the poor water I bought an RO/DI unit, the phosphates and ammonia still come out off the charts. I've thought about purchasing a better membrane but seeing how I have to replace current filter cartridges every 2 months to keep them working, I'm looking for alternatives.  I could always purchase water from a LFS but I'd rather have access to my own source in those times where we need alot of water quickly. I'm open for any ideas you guys might have for me this time. Thanks!
<You need to do some detective work here. Run your water quality tests on the following:
1)Distilled water. You know that this water is distilled from the store and has no minerals in it. The phosphates and ammonia should be zero. The pH should be close to 7.0 but can vary depending on what it can pick up in the air. If your tests show anything then you know the test kits are bad and need to get a new kit with fresh reagents. Powdered reagents work best for me.
2)Now that you know how the test kits are performing then you need to check your tap water. Many areas of the country have high phosphates in their tap water. This is a naturally occurring mineral that come from sand in the aquifers from which well water is pumped out. High nitrates can come from some minerals, but much of it comes from the agricultural practices of using high nitrogen fertilizers.  If your tap water still reads high then we now know that the numbers are accurate.
3)Check the R/O water. The readings should be very close to the distilled water (O ppm). If they are not then replace the R/O cartridge. Measure the R/O water weekly. It should start  out at zero ppm for both. See how many gallons needs to flow through before the readings start to climb. As they start to climb you may need to back flush your R/O unit more often. If you don't have a back flush valve then the membranes won't last too long. You could try getting a bigger R/O unit. If you have a  5 gallon per day unit then a 50 gallon per day unit would take longer to clog just by simple increased surface area. Check out the different R/O units for sale online.
4) Check the tank. These are the most important readings. If the water going in, is pure and the nitrates and phosphates are going up, then the source of the phosphates and nitrates are from the tank itself. The nitrates are from the fish and the phosphates could be from the rocks or sand. Put the rock or sand in a container with distilled water. Check the water in the container in a couple of weeks and compare the test readings. If phosphates show up in the water then you know they are from the rock or sand. Remove the problem materials and replace with inert materials like Fluorite. Do more water changes to dilute the nitrates.-Chuck>