My new tank, poor FW mix of lvstk., ich   1/31/08
hi,
Currently I have 55G tank which contains four 2inch gold fish , six 2inch koi carp , two 4inch koi carp , six 2inch angels and one 25cm Pleco. I know it's a small tank ,that's why I am building a new 200G tank.
<Very good.>
I am thinking about buying 2 red bellied piranha. Is that a good idea?.
<To mix with these fish? Absolutely not. In addition, most of the common piranhas in the trade, including Pygocentrus nattereri (the Red-bellied Piranha), are essentially solitary fish in aquaria. Their social behaviour in the wild is extremely complex and difficult to replicate in captivity. Juveniles may school together, but adults only form schools under certain conditions, and when mature the males are territorial and ultimately guard nests and eggs. Unless kept in BIG aquaria where there are AT LEAST SIX specimens, piranhas simply don't work in groups. The dominant male systematically harasses and eventually kills the other fish. The flip side to this is that single piranhas are nervous and scared of their own shadows! They are very VERY boring pets.>
Is there any kind of fish that I can add with the piranha's?
<None.>
Right now I have one more problem , one of my koi carp is scratching ,what should I do .
<Likely Whitespot/Ick and should be treated accordingly.>
Is it necessary to remove live plants before adding any medicine into the system?.
<Not normally, no.>
One of my koi carp has full red body with small white patches in the middle, is that what u call white spot disease.
<Sounds like it.>
And last I want u to suggest a suitable filter for my new 200G tank (please mention the company name also)
<The ideal filter will vary. If the tank contains just fish and no plants (or maybe floating plants or plants attached to wood) then an undergravel filter can work very well. Use at least two powerheads to get a gravel bed this size working properly. Alternatively, you can use one or more external canister filters. These work better with tanks that contain plants. In either case, the brand of filter doesn't matter much, though some brands, notably Eheim, have a good reputation for reliability and value over the long term. The main thing is turnover. For large fish like yours, you want the powerheads or filter pumps to produce at least 6 times the volume of the tank in turnover per hour. So in your case, the pumps should add up to 6 x 200 = 1200 gallons per hour.>
thanks a lot Mathew
<Cheers, Neale.>

Ich or designs??? FW, reading  – 1/26/08
Hi, I need just one second of your time.
<A bit more than this>
I have a jewel cichlid that is still under 3 inches and it has dots all over his body. I am not sure if this is his design or if it is a disease like ich. Can you please help me out. The spots are all over the body even on the fin. If it is on the fin, does it means it is definitely ich or velvet? Also, is it safe to use medication even if I am not 100 percent sure if it is a disease? Thanks guys.
~Mikey
<... read here: http://wetwebmedia.com/FWSubWebIndex/fwich.htm
and the linked files above. Bob Fenner>

hi? Child? No info., en media res... FW Ich... reading  – 1/26/08
Hello Again
<... where is the prev. corr.?>
I was worried, so I look every where and I found out it might be Ich and was wondering whats the bets way to be sure they got it and to treat them for it. The Water Temp is 24'C and the ph is 7. I would like To Know How much to feed them each day Because This is my first Aquarium And I Have 2 Loaches And 1 Ghost Knife Fish. Thank you Again Chris
<... the loaches and Knife are "special cases" where Ich is concerned. Please read here:
http://wetwebmedia.com/FWSubWebIndex/fwich.htm
and the linked files above, carefully... Bob Fenner>

Devastating Ich outbreak, 2 fish down, please help.  Goldfish 12/28/07
Hello there,
<Ave!>
Please help, we've had a dreadful week.
<Oh?>
On Dec 21st our beloved goldfish (Jasper the black moor, Oscar the comet, and Daphne the Oranda) developed what we believe to be ich. Lots of tiny spots that attract tiny oxygen bubbles, particularly around the gills and under the chin, but also on the body. Dorsal fins went flaccid, and the fish seemed itchy and weak. They continued to feed well, but otherwise a very distressing turnaround for otherwise healthy, happy fish. No obvious reason for the outbreak -water quality good, no new plants, stock or live food in the last 6 weeks, no changes we can think of.
<Hmm... as you realise already, Ick tends to follow on from specific things rather than coming out of the blue. But it may happen.>
We immediately did a water change (around 40%) and started treating with Interpet Anti-Whitespot (formaldehyde and malachite green oxalate). As our tank tends to be a bit on the warm side anyway (the built-in light and filter warm the surface, but the fishies are happy with it), we couldn't really raise the temperature much, but we turned on a second pump for extra aeration (we are in the process of switching from the old one to the new one as the motor is dying so have both in the tank to get the cycling right) but neither of them are carbon or zeolite, so no contraindication for the medication.
<In terms of conditions, all sounds good. I will admit though that I've not found Interpet Anti-Whitespot completely effective in all situations. I prefer to use eSHa EXIT, an alternative product widely sold in the UK and Europe. For whatever reason, it seems to deal with the "super" whitespot strain rather more effectively than Interpet Anti-Whitespot. You may also be dealing with Velvet rather than Ick/Whitespot. Here's the difference: Whitespot cysts look like salt grains, but Velvet cysts are more like icing sugar. Velvet also sometimes has a yellowy or golden sheen rather than plain white and is almost always associated with heavy or rapid breathing. Interpet Anti-Whitespot doesn't treat Velvet, but eSHa EXIT does, which is another reason I prefer it. It is also cheaper!>
In the early hours of December 24th our little black moor died. It was a horrible death, covered in spots (little bubbles you could see clearer with the lights off), and total paralysis as his fins clamped. We were devastated, but it seemed the other two were perking up. We redosed (I think we did a 25% water change at some point during this process to date, which may have been a mistake, but we were responding to the fish looking distressed, and getting so much conflicting advice looking online) and waited. Throughout the day the other two improved, but just before bed I thought I saw more spots on the comet's back. By Christmas morning he was dead.
<Hmm... does sound more like Velvet than Ick. Because Velvet attacks the gills before anything else, by the time you see any cysts on the body, fatal damage may have been done to the gills already. Ick doesn't normally kill fish very quickly, so while it certainly is fatal in the long term, you should have a safe zone of a couple of weeks to spot and treat the disease reliably.>
Daphne, our remaining baby, has been up and down since. On Boxing Day she looked a bit better, yesterday morning she had a massive reinfection, with lots of the tiny spots/bubbles all over her face and gills. We again changed water (50%) and redosed, and by evening the spots were gone, and she looked much better, if slightly puffy and discoloured around the gills and dorsal fin. This morning the puffiness on the gills looked like a large blister, and in the last hour one has filled with blood. She was having trouble swimming against the current of 2 pumps, so turned one off so she can move more easily, but is swimming in circles close to the surface and is not well at all. We're desperate to save her, but don't know what to do.
She's still feeding fine (they've always had a varied diet, peas, frozen daphnia, pellets, flakes, cucumber, p etc), but she's been doing long white stringy poos for a couple of days (seem to have firmed up a bit today actually).
<May be unrelated; her diet sounds excellent.>
We're about to do start doing salt baths -we were going to start this earlier, but what with the chemicals in the water we didn't want to distress her more. We were thinking of doing a 100% water change tomorrow and start again using a different medicine, as this clearly hasn't been effective -what do you think?
<Yes; for now, assume it might be either Velvet or Ick, and use a medication that treats both equally well. eSHa EXIT is one such brand, and there may be others.>
Other than the huge amounts of formaldehyde and malachite in the water, the pH and nitrates have stayed constant, and no nitrate. Not able to test ammonia till tonight as we picked up the wrong kit and the shops have been closed, but with the water changes and everything else being the same I'm not overly worried.
<Medications shouldn't harm to filter, so assuming you're keeping up with water changes, all should be fine there.>
Please help us save Daphne, we really couldn't bear to lose her now. Many
thanks for your time on this, and happy holidays.
Sara and Jonn (London, England)
<Hope this helps, Neale.>

Re: Devastating Ich outbreak, 2 fish down, please help. 12/28/07
Hello Neale, thanks so much for the quick reply.
<No problems.>
Will do some med shopping in the morning. We considered that it might be something other than ick, but that was the closest symptom match, and it looks more white spotty and velvety.... hard to say, but happy to go on to a treatment that will kill both.
<My thoughts exactly.>
She seems to have responded well to the salt bath (30mins at 0.3%) so was thinking of doing that again every 6 hours or so. What do you think? Also, our big concern right now is the big blood blister that accounts for most of her right gill -can't find many accounts of this.
<Hmm... likely a secondary infection. Salt water dips will certainly help. Goldfish have a high salt tolerance and generally respond well to this sort of therapy. Having said that, if the blister doesn't clear up, then do use a general purpose Finrot/fungus medication. Again, I've found the eSHa variety, eSHa 2000, to be cheap and effective against a wide variety of infections.>
Is this a sign of final throws of a infestation, or is this the sort of thing that looks worse than it is (it looks dreadful)?
<When Ick or Velvet cysts "burst", they release free living "spores" that eventually multiply up to form the next generation of parasites. In breaking the skin, this bursting of the cysts can allow secondary infections to develop because the integument between the fish and the water is broken. In this instance, if the blister isn't obviously clearing up, I'd break the habit of a lifetime and use both eSHa 2000 and eSHa EXIT at the same time. According to the manufacturer, they are safe to use together.
http://www.eshalabs.com/exit.htm
Such a combo should fix just about anything.>
Thanks so much for the back-up on this, is so hard to know if we're doing the right thing. xxx
<Treat quickly, and be careful to follow the instructions, and you should be fine. Cheers, Neale.>

Ich not going away:(, FW...  12/25/07
Hello bob, my 4 Neons just got ich and I have read your articles. I raised the temperature to 84 degrees Fahrenheit, I added one teaspoon of salt for every five gallons of water and I am currently using Mardel CopperSafe medication. The ich just isn't going away. I think it is getting a little better, but I want it to be completely gone because it is going to be a gift for my cousin. Am I doing anything wrong? I recently did a 50 percent water change and cleaned the gravel. Also, for the Mardel CopperSafe medication, how often should I use it. It says to treat for one month but I do not know how often I should use it. Please give me some advice. Last, is there anything else I can do to rid the ich? Is Mardel CopperSafe medication good? Thanks so much for your help and your time.
<A few thoughts. Firstly, do make 100% sure you have removed carbon from the filter. Lots of people forget about this. Personally, I consider carbon a waste of space in the average freshwater community tank, but some people still use the stuff. In any case, carbon removes medications from the water, so your fish won't get better. I'd tend not to use salt/temperature in situations where copper-based Ick medications are viable, as is the case with Neon tetras. I'm not familiar with CopperSafe but I have encountered situations where one brand of anti-Ick medication didn't work, but a second brand did. So try switching to an alternate brand. I happen to find the eSHa EXIT anti-Ick medication highly effective and safe with even sensitive species, so if you're in Europe or someplace where eSHa products are sold, that's worth trying. Do also remember you can't do water changes while treating the fish: the concentration of medication must remain constant throughout the course. Cheers, Neale.>

Re: ich not going away:( 12/25/07
Hello again, The Mardel CopperSafe medication says that it treats the water for one month, so am I not suppose to do a water change for one whole month? Please write back. Thanks again.
<No, do regular weekly water changes of 50% as per normal. There's no point treating the whitespot if the fish end up dying from nitrate poisoning or acidosis. Cheers, Neale.>

Ich, FW, Botia macracantha... no reading  12/12/07
Hi, I have a clown loach that recently got ich.
<... this is a social species. Should be kept in a shoal...>
But I am not entirely sure. He has like white air bubbles on his tail and on his fin.
<Mmmm, could you send along a pic?>
Is this ick or not? Also, is there a very accurate and easy way to tell if your fish is healing from ick? Last, how much salt should I use and how often? I have a fifty gallon freshwater tank. Thanks for all your help.
~concerned owner...
Oh, and how do I feed frozen bloodworms to my bottom feeders? Thanks once again
<How is it you managed to skip over our instructions for writing us w/o reviewing what is posted? Please read here: http://www.wetwebmedia.com/FWSubWebIndex/fwich.htm
and here: http://www.wetwebmedia.com/FWSubWebIndex/clnlchfdg.htm
and the linked files above. There is just too much that is necessary, related to your general questions to answer succinctly. What you need to know en toto is posted. Go and read it. Bob Fenner>

I think our tank has Ich! -11/27/2007
Hi Crew-
<Emily>
I think our 75 Gallon Freshwater tank has ich! I think 2 new sail fin tetras which we bought 1 week ago (which we did not quarantine) brought it in.
<Happens... more so during this time of year when temperature changes chill newcomers in transit...>
They both have 2 or 3 little white bubbles on their fins and body. 1 Angel fish also has 1 white bubble on its fin. Is this ich?
<A bubble... have you read much re FW ich? Looks more like salt grains>
I am quite a novice when it comes to fish. I'm still learning. I have several different fish: 5 red eyed tetras, 2 sail fin tetras, 2 angel fish, 1 spotted leaf fish, 1 Pleco, 1 Farlowella twig, 1 Black ghost knife, and 1 temperamental fire eel.
<Quite a mix>
I don't know what to treat the tank with because of our variety of fish.
<You are right to be cautious... likely temperature manipulation alone is the route I would go here>
I read through your articles about ich but I was concerned that some of the treatments might harm the eel or the ghost knife.
<You are correct>
(On top of this our fire eel is still healing from pop eye- what bad luck we've had.) We also have quite the assortment of live plants. Do I really have to remove all of them from the tank to treat the ich?
<IF you are to treat the system with harsh chemicals (metals, dyes) yes>
We also don't have a good QT tank set up. Can we just treat
the 75?
<Might be expedient... just the elevated temp.>
What do you recommend? We just got finished treating a really stubborn case of pop eye too.
<Mmm, very important... What, how did you treat? This alone may be the source of the "bubbles"... NOT ich. Otherwise the treatment may have weakened your stock to such a degree that they will not easily suffer further manipulation>
I am just SOO frustrated with our new hobby. I hope you can help us.
<Take y/our time here... I/we need to know much more re your set-up, history... For now I would nudge up your water temperature... to the low eighties F... this should harm nothing... and may expedite the life cycle, removal of this observed phenomenon's leaving... whether its parasitic or no>
Thanks so much,
Emily
<Welcome. Bob Fenner>

Ammonia test strip question - 11/20/07
Hi Crew,
<Leah,>
I saw one white spot on the tail of one clown loach. Unable to decide if it was ich, I decided to be proactive and treat with Rid-Ich+. The spot was gone within 24 hours, and no other fish developed any other spots, and no one seemed itchy or otherwise uncomfortable. I began to wonder if the original spot had been ich at all, but I intended to treat for a week to be safe. I removed my carbon filter, did a daily 25% water change and used a half dose of Rid-Ich+, although I later read conflicting reports online over whether half doses are effective.
<Depends. Sometimes half-doses work acceptably well, without putting sensitive fish at risk. More often though, the salt plus heat method works better and more safely for treating Ick on Clown loaches, Mormyridae, etc.>
I treated through day 5. Today was supposed to be day 6 of treatment, but I noticed that my Mardel ammonia test strip had gone from plain yellow (0.0 ammonia) to a kind of off-yellow. It's hard to describe, and it does not match any of the other colors on the test strip, which grow from pale green to dark blue-green. It looks for all the world as if the Rid-Ich+ has slightly stained the test strip. Is this likely?
<Certainly possible. If the nitrite level is zero, I'd assume that's the problem here. If the nitrite isn't zero, then perhaps there's something else going on.>
How reliable are these strips, compared to other kinds of tests? After 5 days of half doses of Rid-Ich+, do you think I've harmed my good bacteria?
<No.>
This morning I did a 40% water change with dechlorinated water, and no meds. I also replaced my carbon filter. When I return
home this afternoon, I will put in a new ammonia test strip and see if it stays yellow. (I'm waiting until the afternoon because I don't want any remaining meds to stain the new one.) Do you think I should take any other actions?
<Not really, no.>
I have an ammonia locking agent, and something called stress-zyme that is supposed to help replace good bacteria.
<You shouldn't need either of these things in a stable aquarium. Traces of ammonia in your tap water should be removed by any decent dechlorinator, and the ammonia produced by your fish gets used by the filter bacteria. Bacteria supplements are, in my opinion, more about selling stuff to hobbyists that actually doing anything useful.>
Unfortunately I will be unable to observe the tank again until the
afternoon, but I can check my email and drop by the pet store on the
way home if you recommend buying a different test kit.
Thank you very much,
Leah
<Hope this helps, Neale.>

Black Ghost Knifefish and Ich 10/24/07
<Hi Jillian, Pufferpunk here>
I am at a loss as to how to treat my two BGK fish. They live together in a large tank along with two Raphael catfish and an Oto whom they surprisingly do not bother. Recently I noticed a few small white spot (suspecting ich) on one of the BGK, and am wondering what is the best course of action for treatment. Firstly, should I isolate the infected fish or treat the tank as a whole since all fish have now been exposed?
<I would treat the whole tank with heat & salt.>
Secondly, what it the highest temperature that BKNs will tolerate, as my usual treatment for ich is to up the temperature to 82-84 F and add 2Tbs of salt per 10g of aquarium water?
<MT BGK lives in a discus tank with a normal temperature of 86. Since these are soft water fish, I'd start with 1 tbsp salt/10g.>
This leads me to my third question, is it better to treat the BGK with this salt treatment or to use a product like RidIch at 1/2 strength?
<I wouldn't use meds on scaleless fish. Before starting treatment you should do at least a 50% water change and vacuuming of your tank. I also suggest doing 50% water changes every other day of treatment, (again vacuuming the substrate) to reduce the number of parasites in the water. I do not like to use medication with scaleless fish, except in cases of heavy infestation. Melafix is helpful to treat any damage done to the puffer’s skin from the parasite. If you run into any secondary bacterial problems, Pimafix may also be used. By the 2nd day of treatment, you can raise the salt to1 tablespoon per 5 gallons of aquarium water (remember you already have 1 tbsp/10g in there, so adjust for that), while gradually raising the temperature to 86 degrees F. Continue with this for a period of one month, adding back 1 tablespoon of salt for every 5 gallons of aquarium water that you remove during water changes. One thing to remember with high temperatures is that there is less dissolved oxygen available in warm water than there is in water at cooler temperatures, therefore it is recommended to run an additional airstone to oxygenate the water.>
I am a little attached to these fish and would like to see them make it through this. Thank you in advance for the advise.
<It sounds like you have caught the disease early & your fish should be fine. ~PP>
-Jillian Scharfstein 

Ich elephant nose  10/23/07
I have had my elephant nose Approximately 8 months. He has been happy and healthy. He has developed tiny white spots on his pectoral fins and anal fin that look like ich. Is there any medicine I can treat him with that won't kill him?
Thank You
Karen
<Hello Karen. With Mormyridae, the things to avoid specifically are Formalin and Copper, both of which are widely used in anti-Ick medications. So you need to treat Mormyridae in the same basic way as, say, Clown Loaches (see here: http://www.wetwebmedia.com/FWSubWebIndex/clnlchdis.htm ). Anyway, the basic trick is this: raise the temperature to 30 degrees C (around 86 F). Oxygen level goes down as temperature goes up, so you need to compensate for that. Add additional aeration if you can, but failing that, adjust the water level and/or filter so there is lots of splashing and circulation. Now make up a brine solution in a jug, with about 2-3 grammes of aquarium salt (not marine salt) per litre of water in the aquarium (in other words, a salinity of 2-3 PPT). There's almost exactly 6 grammes of salt per teaspoon, so estimating how much you need should not be too difficult. Stir the salt into the water thoroughly until dissolved, and then slowly add the brine a little at a time into the outflow of the filter so that it quickly disperses around the tank. After a few days the parasites on your fish will mature and die, but the mobile parasite larvae will not be able to re-infect your fish, and the disease will go away. This takes quite a few days, but it does work. Increasing the salt concentration to as much as 6 grammes per litre of water can be used to deal with stubborn infections, but the higher the salinity, the more gently you need to adjust your fish to it, and the higher the degree of osmotic stress placed on the fish. Conversely, once you're done treating the fish, do a series of relatively small water changes over the next few days to gradually bring the salinity down to zero. As ever, do establish why the Ick became a problem. It doesn't come from nowhere, and is either brought in by unquarantined fish or else provoked into action by stress or lapses in water quality. With Mormyridae, prevention is FAR better than cure. Good luck, Neale.>

Ich on my fish – 10/09/07
I have a 56 gal tank all properties are in range except now I have 2 fish with ich. My fish are comprised of a Dinosaur, brown knife, black ghost knife, Bala shark, Albino Rainbow shark, black rainbow shark, 2 snails, a bamboo shrimp, 2 iridescent sharks, a Gourami, 2 rubbermouth Pleco. The Bala and brown knife have ich. I have raised the temp to 83 and would like to use Epsom salt in the tank. what else should I do, I have seen the information on the site and have decided to go with the salt but wish to make sure I am doing things right.
<No idea what sort of fish a "Dinosaur" is. And your mix of fish is, as we say in England, "courageous" (i.e., unlikely to work out). But regardless, Epsom salt isn't the way forward in my opinion. You need marine salt mix (ideally) or at least some sort of non-iodised table salt. You gradually raise the salinity of the tank to 1 gramme of salt per litre of water. DO NOT add salt directly to the aquarium! Take some water out, add the salt, and then slowly dribble in back into the tank. You need to run the tank at 1 PPT salinity for around 7-10 days, and then gradually lower the salinity to zero. There's more here: http://www.wetwebmedia.com/FWSubWebIndex/fwich.htm . Personally, I'd simply use an anti-ick/whitespot medication safe with the species of fish you are keeping. I find 'eSHa Exit' to be very effective and (in my experience) safe with sensitive species such as catfish and puffers. It's a Dutch medication widely sold in Europe. Follow the instructions to the letter, and make absolutely sure there's no carbon in the filter. The shrimp will, of course, need to be removed to another tank until the course of medication is finished and you have done at least two 50% water changes to rinse out the medication. Cheers, Neale>

Tetras with Ich – 09/17/07
Dear crew,
<<Hello, Evan. Tom with you.>>
I have a 10 gallon tank with 4 Glowlight tetras and 3 neon tetras (I had 5 Neons originally but 2 died soon after arriving home from the LFS). That raises a question; one of the dead Neons was completely colorless when I found it. Could the cause of death been NTD?
<<Could be, Evan, but not very likely. Your other Neon Tetras would have almost certainly contracted NTD by now and I can’t guarantee that the Glowlights wouldn’t have been affected, as well.>>
If so: how long before any of my other fish exhibit symptoms? It’s been over 2 weeks and I haven’t noticed the fish acting sick.
<<They’d have shown signs by now, Evan.>>
Sorry for the digression, back to my original question.
<<No problem.>>
My tank has 0 Ammonia, 0 Nitrites and less than 20 ppm Nitrates, temp 84F, pH 7.8.
<<The pH levels are high for the Neons in particular, Evan. Not necessarily a problem but might account for some stress in these fish.>>
10 days ago I noticed the start of ich on a couple of the Glowlights and I started a treatment of Aquarium Pharmaceuticals’ Super Ick Cure (Benzaldehyde Green and Povidone/Colloid mixture). I have been treating at half dose but following Doug Thamm’s recommendations found here:
http://fins.actwin.com/articles/disease/ick2.php. I have the temperature at 84F and have performed 2 full administrations (5 mL initial dose followed by 5mL more 48 hours later, followed by WC after another 48 hours, and repeat) and I am in the middle of the 3rd administration (10th day). I have done 50% WC in between each. The treatment appeared to be working as the glowlights had lost all of their white spots.
<<Glad to hear this. Nice description of your regimen, by the way.>>
Yesterday evening I noticed one of my Neons with ich spots on its tailfin and body. Is it normal for the ich to re-emerge during treatment?
<<Not necessarily “normal” but certainly possible. Difficult to determine the resistance the parasites may have to the medication particularly at partial dosages.>>
Should I increase the dosage strength to 100% doses?
<<I wouldn’t do this unless the problem looks like it’s getting the better of you and the fish. As I alluded to earlier, your Neons prefer water that’s soft/acidic. Their preferred pH levels top out at about 7.0 which means your water is much higher in pH than they really like. This alone can contribute to diminished resistance to infestations such as Ich. Since medications also lead to stress, the least effective dosage that you can treat at will be far better in the long run.>>
Should I just continue my treatment until no spots are left?
<<Yes.>>
Should I change medication to something like Quick Cure with Malachite Green/Formaldehyde?
<<Not unless the API medication just doesn’t do the job for you. The Malachite Green is highly effective but isn’t without problems of its own. Highly toxic and has been described as a potential carcinogen. Not a treatment protocol to take lightly.>>
Besides the ich, the fish seem healthy, they are active and eat well.
<<Very good signs, Evan.>>
Thank you for your help.
-Evan
<<Happy to be of assistance to you. Good luck to you. Tom>>

FW Ich    9/12/07
I had 2 moonlight gouramis in a 29 gallon tanks with 3 Dalmatian mollies. The gouramis started getting tiny white spots on their fins. One developed the white spots on its body. I thought this might be ick so I moved them to a 10 gallon tank to treat with medication. The one with the spots on the body kind of jerks in the corner, the other swims fine but still has spots on the fins. How long should I treat them? Will they be okay in the 10 gallon without gravel and decorations (I have no money to buy extra things right now)?
<Hail. Yep, the white spots are whitespot/ick. It needs to be treated at once. Left alone, it becomes serious and can kill fish quite quickly. You actually treat the tank -- not the fish -- so moving fish with whitespot doesn't serve any purpose except to infect yet another tank. So, you need to treat both the 29 gallon tank and the 10 gallon tank. The medication doesn't kill the white spots you see on the fish, but the free-swimming larval stages in the water. Treat precisely and exactly as described on the bottle/package. Raising the temperature a couple of degrees often helps, too. Do not do water changes while treating the tanks (obviously this will dilute the medication). Remove carbon from the filter (carbon neutralises most medications). Cheers, Neale>

Re: FW ich  9/12/07
Thank you so much for the prompt response. I will definitely be coming to you guys for advice in the future. I have treated the 29 gallon tank and I put the moonlight gouramis back in it so they will have a less stressful habitat. I used the Wardley, malachite green, ick treatment. I have read on other treatments that they prevent second infections, but the Wardley treatment does not say that. I also read that ick in the water can only be treated at a certain stage and that stage is a few days after the white spots fall off my fish. Will I need to treat the water again after the white spots fall off my gouramis?
<No, the medication is usually a one time thing. Treat according to the instructions. When the parasites fall off the host, they're dead. They don't re-infect the fish. It's the (invisible to the naked eye) free swimming baby parasites they've been pumping out prior to their death that infects other fish. Sometimes, one series of medication isn't enough. There's something called "Super Whitespot" doing the rounds in the UK. No-one knows if it truly is whitespot or something else entirely. Either way, you need to do a big water change after one course of medication, and then begin a second course. That usually does the trick. This varies depending on the medication used, and some brands kill it off first time. Whitespot isn't difficult to treat, and there's no reason to get paranoid about all your fish dying. Cheers, Neale>

Salt treatment for Ich, FW...    9/2/07
Dear crew,
I have a 10 gallon FW tank with hang on bio-filter and heater. This is really my son's tank that he received as a birthday gift a month ago but as he is 2 I have been designated the caretaker. This is my first foray into fish keeping and I have been reading as much as possible to learn how best to care for the fish.
We have the following fish:
2 Neon Tetras
2 White Skirt Tetras
2 Female Platys
2 recently departed male Swordtails (died within 2 days of each other)
The Tetras have been in the tank for 1 month, I am still in the process of cycling the tank. On Tuesday my in-laws surprised (sabotaged) us with 6 new fish. I believe the 2 swordtails died due to stress/high nitrites.
(Ammonia=0, nitrite=1.0, nitrates=20 before today's water change) I have been doing water changes about twice a week to keep the Ammonia/Nitrites in check during the cycling process. Now to my problem:
It appears that I have an ich outbreak in the tank. I want to treat the Ich with high temperature and salt. I have read differing opinions on salting with tetras so I wasn't sure if a medication would be a better solution.
Also, I have been using Aqueon Water Conditioner to remove Chlorine/Chloramines from my tap water; will this nullify the effectiveness of the salt? I have read that it is necessary to remove the carbon from the filter while medicating, but is it necessary with the salt treatment? One last question, I have only fake plants/decorations in my tank, should I remove these while treating the fish?
Thank you for all of your help.
-Rusty
<Rusty, I would not recommend treating the tank with salt to kill whitespot. While it can work, it doesn't always work, and you are correct in suspecting tetras react badly to it. Neons come from mineral-poor waters and do not like salt in the water. To a lesser extent this also holds true for the white-skirt tetras (Gymnocorymbus ternetzi, notorious fin-nippers and all round nasty fish). Anyway, use a proper anti-whitespot medication of your choice for more reliable, easier to manage treatment. Naturally, you MUST remove carbon before treating the tank with medication. In fact carbon is a complete and utter waste of time in a tank like yours, where you should be doing 50% water changes weekly just to maintain stable water conditions. Given that, the ability of carbon to remove dissolved organic waste is redundant. Far better to give over the space in the filter to more biological media. Carbon is basically a con, used to get money out of inexperienced fishkeepers. It doesn't serve much purpose in the modern hobby, though decades ago it was useful because people kept fish in a different (and inferior) way. You also have the problem of a very small aquarium (totally unsuitable for swordtails and white-skirt tetras, and only marginally acceptable for platies). I'd HIGHLY recommend re-thinking your stocking with a view to getting fish likely to work well in a 10 gallon tank. For some reason you aren't keeping your schooling fish in groups. Two is unacceptable, and they will never settle down and likely die. Neons are fine fish for a 10 gallon tank, but they should be groups of 6 or more. If you wanted, I'd suggest replacing the white-skirt tetras with 6 glowlight tetras, and together with 4 more neons, you'd have a nice little group of fish there with eye-catching colours. If you got rid of the platies you could also add a couple or three kuhli loaches. These are fun bottom dwellers and very pretty little fish to boot. I hope this helps, Neale>

Second bout of Ich in two years   9/2/07
Hello- We're in recovery from our second bout of Ich in the past two years. The first case was sheer ignorance, and I (and the fish, of course) owe WWM's crew a debt of thanks. Your site has the best comprehensive info on so many things we needed to know. For this recent outbreak, after exhaustively searching your site, I have only one unanswered question: Can Ich be introduced to a tank from frozen brine shrimp? Our 25 gal tank has been stable for over 18 months and then just three weeks ago the dreaded Ich appeared again. It wiped out all four of our black tetras before we could catch it, but by using your recommended salt & higher temp treatment the 2 yo-yo loaches, pleco, 2 angel fish and 2 danios are now symptom free. I plan on keeping the salt and temps up to complete a three week treatment, but really do not want to re-introduce the brine shrimp until I know what could have caused the recent outbreak. To my knowledge, nothing else went in the tank. FYI, the tank is a typical freshwater tropical tank, with mostly artificial plants but a few live ones. Any ideas where the recent Ich may have come from? Thank you very much, Roseann & Barry.
<Greetings. It is extremely unlikely whitespot came in with frozen or live brine shrimp. Artemia spp. live in hypersaline or temporary lagoons where nothing much other than algae lives. Certainly, there are no fishes there, which is how such primitive crustaceans as Artemia can even survive there (Artemia are not found in regular freshwater habitats or the sea). Anyway, this means that they aren't exposed to fish parasites of any kind, and why they are considered the "perfect" live food in terms of safety. Some aquarists believe whitespot lies dormant in all aquaria, and becomes a problem only where conditions allow (i.e., the fish are stressed in some way). While there's no evidence to support this that I'm aware of, it's certainly possible. Regardless, once you've treated the aquarium, ideally with a proper medication rather than salt, all the dormant whitespot cysts should be killed. So short of adding new fish, you should be whitespot free. Good luck, Neale>

Ich infested tank. – 08/27/07
Hello! I've recently discovered your site, and find it to be a fairly good resource, despite the fact that I've had some trouble getting my questions answered on the forums. People post links that contradict each other, and just all around end up confusing me.
My tank has ich. It's 10 gallons with black tetras, blue Congo tetras, and a pleco (yes, tank is small for when he starts growing, however, I've already made sure of trade in policies and may even get a bigger tank when the time comes).
I've done a lot of research on ich, I know the basics of the lifecycle, and the common treatments. When I went to the fish store, they suggest heat and aquarium salt (added as per the directions on the box, which is 1 level table spoon per 5 gallons) This is what I've been trying, I've raised the temperature to 86F or so, and added in the salt, adding a little bit more to the new water bucket when I do a water change so that the concentration doesn't change.
I'm reluctant to just jump into medication as I don't want to risk harming my biological filtration and end up stressing the fish a bit more in the long run while my tank re-cycles. What I want to know, is if I'm doing anything right, or if I should do some things different.
The ich just dropped off my fish almost all at once, so I'm hoping that I will be done with it. However, I would love some advice incase this happens again, or incase the outbreak isn't over yet.
Thanks in advance!
Krys.
<hello Krys. Ick (whitespot) can be a problem. Personally, I don't recommend the salt method for treatment. You need quite a high salinity for it to be effective, and high temperature, and together these things can end up stressing the fish more than the medication would. So while it may be useful for some situations (e.g., clown loaches, which are intolerant of copper and formalin medications) for run of the mill community tropicals life is simpler to go use standard ick medications. I've found "eSHa exit" particularly good; it seems to work well against the "super-whitespot" doing the rounds here in the UK, and doesn't seem to harm catfish or puffers, both of which sometimes react badly to standard medications. Properly used, an aquarium treatment shouldn't harm the filter bacteria. This did sometimes happen back in the pre-history of the hobby (i.e., before the 1980s) but nowadays it isn't something to worry about. The main mistake people make is to leave carbon in the aquarium filter. The carbon removes the medication, so the fish stay sick. Anyway, as you realise medications and for that matter salt don't kill the parasites on the fish. Warming the tank is a way to speed up the life cycle so those adult parasites become life expired and fall off the host. Where the medication or salt comes into play is with the free-living larval parasites. Assuming your treatment worked, your fish should not be re-infected with another batch of white spots, i.e., adult parasites. So watch and wait, and see what happens. If they come back, skip the salt, and go use an Ick medication of your choice. Cheers, Neale>

Re: Ich infested tank. 8/28/07
Thank you very much for your reply. I've gone out and bought some nox-ich. I've read a bit about it, but just have a couple of quick questions before I do a light treatment of my tank (likely a little less than half the regular dose). The instructions on the packaging are minimal, and some website searching is turning up little that's definitive.
I've read that it can leech into almost anything in my tank. I currently have some fake plants, an ornament, lava rock, and driftwood. Should I take any of these out before treating my tank? If so, which? I've heard people recommend taking out ornaments and fake plants so that they don't get stained. I'm just wondering if the medication may leech into the wood or rock and potentially cause problems later. What would you recommend?
If I take these things out, should I cover my tank with something so that the fish have somewhere to "hide"? With the plants gone (and the wood and rock if you recommend it) they won't have anywhere to hide, and I don't want to stress them too much.
<Greetings. I'm not familiar with "Nox Ich". But it's a type of Malachite Green organic dye. So read Bob's page on these, here: http://www.wetwebmedia.com/malachitefaqs.htm . I don't use these types of medication myself -- too much hassle, no real advantage. Hope this helps, Neale>

Ich and the scaleless barb   8/14/07
Dear WWM Crew,
<<Dear Claire. Tom here this afternoon.>>
Congratulations on your fantastic and informative site - it has been an invaluable resource as I set up my first tropical tank.
<<Very glad to hear it, Claire.>>
Unfortunately that tank has now come down with ich (due to an unquarantined new arrival - long story, and I've learned my lesson...) - I saw one or two spots on fins this evening.
<<An Ich infestation is a pain in the backside to have to deal with but it’s a far cry from other problems that might have occurred. Sorry you learned the hard way but all of us have learned something in this hobby the hard way so welcome to our club.>>
I have Nox-ich to treat it with but would like some advice on dosage, due to the presence of a 'mutant' fish. The tank contains 6 female rosy barbs (rescued feeder fish), five tetras and a Bristlenose catfish (gradual stocking still in progress). One of the rosy barbs has no scales.
<<Hello? Haven’t heard of that one, Claire. Interesting…>>
She is in all other respects a perfectly healthy (before the ich) and active fish. I assume the lack of scales means that I should treat the tank at a lower dosage level, but would like your input before I do.
<<Not to send you back to the LFS unnecessarily, Claire, but neither your Tetras nor your Bristlenose Pleco are going to appreciate the Nox-Ich formula which contains sodium chloride (salt) and malachite green as its active ingredients. Even at half-dosages you’d really be putting yourself on “aquarium watch” for signs of stress with your pets. Additionally, as I see below, you have a planted tank. Plants don’t much care for salt, either. I don’t want you wasting time here – nor your money – but Kordon’s Rid-Ich may be the better choice of medications given the circumstances. It’s a combination of malachite green and formalin but, in combination, at lesser concentrations than would be found with other medications using one, or the other, exclusively or nearly so. In combination with each other, these are very effective even when “dosing down” (one-half the prescribed) because of scaleless fish.>>
Tank stats:
150 litres, live plants
pH 7.4
ammonia and nitrites nil
nitrates 5
Thanks!
Claire.
<<Tank stats look quite good, Claire. Be sure to read the directions of any medication carefully and followed them to the letter. Best of luck. Tom>>

Platies with Ich – 07/30/07
<Hi Mary, Twothless here.>
> We have 5 small platy in our 10 gal Biorb along with one small golden mystery snail.
<Kind of cramped in there, but not too bad.>
> I check that water quality regularly and all seems fine.
<Could you define "Fine" for me? Actual test result numbers? When an aquarists says the levels were fine, it means that there is 0ppm ammonia, 0ppm nitrItes and nitrAtes below 40ppm. ANYTHING higher than these levels is considered detrimental to the health of your fish, and snail. Immediate action must then be effected to fix the problem before any health issues arise.>
> We are experiencing an outbreak of (I assume) ick as I see white salt like specs on the tails. Often this is hard to see as they seem to be clamping their fins and tail closed.
<Sounds like Ich to me. You can treat Ich on Platies with aquarium salt as per