Treating illness with central filtration 3/28/09
I work at a retail store with fresh water tanks, where all the tanks share a large single sump filter.
<Oh?>
I would like to know what the best way to treat ich and fungus in this situation are, because quarantining is a not an option for me unfortunately.
<Since the free-living Ick parasite moves for 24 hours or more through the water column, you can reliably assume all the other fish have been exposed to the parasite.>
Currently I turn the filter off
<No.>
and treat each tank with ich medication
<If you want, assuming all the livestock are copper/formalin-tolerant; invertebrates and snails won't be, and some fish, particularly loaches, puffers and some catfish are also sensitive.>
aquarium salt
<Salt + heat can work.>
and Melafix for a while before turning the filter back on.
<You must leave the filter running. A dead filter will kill more fish more quickly than Ick! The only precaution here is to remove carbon prior to using medication.>
Would it be better to leave the filter on and add medication directly to the sump?
-Kevin
<Hope this helps. Cheers, Neale>

Question about fish with ich! 3/24/09
Hello,
<Hi!>
I was wondering if you could perhaps help me with a problem I've been having with my freshwater fish community. I have a Pleco, four fancy male guppies, three black skirt tetras and four neon tetras. I noticed a case of ich a couple of days ago on my Pleco, then spotted it on two guppies.
I'm new to the fish world, and freaked!
<Don't be freaked; be well read. There's plenty of stuff on this site, as well as lots of books. You've made some common mistakes right here. Neons and Black Skirt tetras need to be in groups of 6+ or they behave in odd ways. Black Skirt tetras (Gymnocorymbus ternetzi) are notorious fin-nippers, and when kept in too-small a group, often become especially nasty towards things like Guppies, Bettas and Angelfish. Neons on the other hand are shy fish, and in groups that are too small they become stressed, usually just dying off, one at a time, for no obvious reason. Plecs (typically Pterygoplichthys species) grow rapidly (within 12-18 months) to a massive size; 30-45 cm (12-18 inches) being typical. Unless you have a huge tank, upwards of 55 gallons at least, you're creating a problem for yourself here as this fish will overload the filter and make it impossible to keep the fish healthy.>
Just a week or two before, I had purchased one of those 'Glofish' (I think its actually a zebra Danio) but didn't research about how they would do in the tank.
<Indeed, is a genetically modified Danio rerio.>
Sad to say, I now know that it will chase around my guppies and make everyone in the tank nervous.
<Completely predictable. Danios are schooling fish, and in groups of less than six often become bullies. Any shop that sold you ONE Danio was taking advantage of you.>
Two of my neon tetras died, leaving only the four behind, and two guppies died, leaving only the remaining four that I'm trying to save. I got rid of the Glofish, gave it to my sister, but noticed that under all that stress, my small community had high ammonia levels.
<Nothing to do with stress. Ammonia comes from fish waste, and unless this tank is large, you probably have too many fish. Or else, you added too many fish at once, without cycling the tank first. Or again, you could be under-filtering or overfeeding. Often, beginners do all these mistakes.>
So I did a total vacuum clean up and did a water change or two over the next few days. Then one day, I woke up and BOOM, there was the ich on my Pleco!
<Not boom at all. Predictable. Ick usually arrives with new fish. Because the parasite can't live apart from fish for more than a day or two, Ick rarely appears in well established tanks. But when people are starting out, buying new fish, infected fish come into the aquarium and spread the parasite. The best thing you can do is quarantine all livestock for a month before adding it to your aquarium. But if that isn't practical, e.g., you have just one tank, then add fish with at least a month between them. This will give you time to see if the fish you just bought are healthy, and if not, take remedial action.>
I purchased RidIch from PetSmart, and started using that for the past three days. Did a small, less than 25% water change this morning, but still haven't seen any results. Now, I just spotted a really bad case of damage to the tail fins on two of my fancy male guppies! I'm freaking out. I called a lady at PetSmart, and she told me not to add any other sort of meds. into the tank while I'm trying to cure the ich.
<In this situation I'd actually recommend treating the Ick with salt/heat, and the Fungus with an appropriate anti-fungus medication. This combination would be safe. Broadly, yes, the lady at the pet store is right; you shouldn't mix medications unless you know the combination is safe. Anyway, for the Ick, raise the temperature to 82-86 degrees F and add 2 to 3 teaspoons of aquarium salt (not marine salt mix) per gallon of water. The free-living Ick parasite cannot abide salt, and once the white cysts on the fish burst, the free-living stages that emerge will die. At the same time, treat for Fungus. Avoid nonsense like tea-tree oil preparations; while they sound good on paper, the plain fact is they're unreliable. Instead, look to medications that contain Acriflavine. This is an extremely effective anti-fungal medication. If you're unsure if you're dealing with Fungus, Finrot or Columnaris ("mouth fungus") you may decide to use medications that contain formalin and malachite green; these tend to work quite well on all three infections.>
She thought maybe, since the RidIch helps with fungus infections too, that the fin rot would go away with the RidIch.
<RidIch contains formalin and malachite green, and should work for both, but if it doesn't, be prepared to switch medications.>
Any help or suggestions you have would be much appreciated. I'm just a novice to all this, but I do my best by researching everything as much as possible.
Eagerly awaiting your reply.
<Please do review our page on good beginner's books. For a few bucks, you'll equip yourself with knowledge that will save a lot more money (and fish lives) in the long term.
http://www.wetwebmedia.com/FWSubWebIndex/bksfwbrneale.htm
>
Thanks,
~Crystal
<Glad to help. Neale.>

Re: Question about fish with ich! 3/24/09
Thank you so much for all your help Neale.
Should I continue with the RidIch, or do you think I should just go with the salt?
Thanks again,
~Crystal
<I'd use the Rid Ick now, and see what happens. If no improvement in terms of Ick and Fungal infection, then by all means consider an alternative approach. Cheers, Neale.> 

Re: Question about fish with ich! 3/24/09
Oh,
One last thing,
would Aquarium Pharmaceuticals Aquarium Salt from PetSmart be the right thing?
Regards,
~Crystal
<This is precisely the type of thing to use when treating Ick. But as mentioned, go with the Rid Ick you already have, remembering of course to remove carbon from the filter while medicating (carbon removes medication).
Cheers, Neale.>  

Hatchetfish with ich? - 02/08/09
OK...we bought three silver hatchetfish 5 days ago, they've been in our quarantine tank which only has a few cherry shrimp and snails in it. They seem vigorous and as of this morning are still hearty eaters. But two days ago I noticed a few white spots on the fins of one of the hatchetfish, now he's got about 7-8 spots and one of the other fish has 2 spots. They look
like grains of salt and I'm pretty sure it's ich. Glad they are in the quarantine tank.
I've read your faqs about ich and the consensus seems to be that the heat/salt combination is less abrasive and works best, is that correct?
Will my cherry shrimp and snails be ok with the heat and salinity? I have read snails and shrimp are not susceptible to ich, but they can carry it on them, correct? What would be the best way to handle my ich problem given the snails/shrimp are in the tank? Should I give them a salt dip and move them? Leave them with the hatchetfish and do salt/heat? Or use something
like Ich-X or Rid-Ich? I am hesitant to use chemicals as they seem very harsh?
Thanks,
Melissa
<Hello Melissa. Hatchetfish are very prone to Ick/Whitespot, which is why I recommend quarantining them for at least two weeks before putting them into a community tank. As you correctly suspect, copper-based medications that will treat the Ick will also kill shrimps and snails, so can't be used. (This is, by the way, why you don't add other livestock to a quarantine
tank: doing so defeats the whole object of the exercise.) But you are where you are, so let's deal with things as they stand. Salt/heat won't harm shrimps or snails. Snails and shrimps can indeed carry the free living parasites on the water "stuck" to their bodies if moved from one tank to another. The parasites can't live on them shrimps or snails, so you can QT both by putting them in another tank for a few weeks. This will break the life cycle as the free living (= juvenile) parasites die if they cannot find a host within a set period of time (around 24 hours, but depends on temperature and other factors). Salt dips won't work: you MUST expose fish, shrimps and snails to the salt/heat combo for the requisite period of time.
Cheers, Neale.>

Re: Hatchetfish with ich? 02/09/09
Hi Neale,
<Unfortunately "out">
Thanks for your reply. Hatchetfish don't have any more (or less) spots and are still eating well.
<Ah, good>
They are tolerating the salt dosed as recommended but I am having trouble getting the temp about 82, I guess I need a stronger heater because it's been turned up to max temp and it doesn't get any hotter.
<Ahh, perhaps another heater of similar wattage in tandem>
I took the shrimp and snails out and put them in a old tank we had from a Betta long ago, it's only 2.5 gallons but has a heat/light they seem fine.
<Good>
Our local fish specialty store said salt doesn't work, heat is fine but recommended ParaGuard by SeaChem, they said it is less abrasive and works well. I hate that I get different advice everywhere, I never know what is best. Have you heard of it?
<I have, and this is a good product. However, the heat alone should effect a cure here>
Or in your opinion should we just stick with the heat/salt?
<This last is what I would do. Bob Fenner>
Melissa

Ich, Meds, & Scaleless– 1/20/09
Hello WWM,
You have been my trusty source for over two years, and I'm ashamed to say I have read your 'related articles' and I'm thoroughly confused about what to do with the unstoppable and dreaded Ich in my 50 g bowfront with 3 African
brown knives, 1 black knife, 3 featherfins, 2 pim pictus, Hatchetfish, zebra Danio? They were perfectly fine, weekly water changes, water tests all good - no deaths for 6 months, then I bought my black knife and a pictus - yes, without quarantine because they looked fine. 3 days ago, I did a 70% water change, vacuumed gravel, raised the temp a couple degrees last few days to 83, heading to 86, have used RidIchPlus+ every 12 hours and covered the tank for complete darkness all to no avail. I'm going to add an airstone because of the higher temp. But the problem is, it's worse.
The ich is now on the eyes of my African browns, I'm so afraid they aren't going to make it. What else can I do? I saw your remarks about aq. salt 1tbsp/10g and 1/2 strength malachite green -- all this on top of what I'm doing? No article provides a holistic remedy about all the interactions of these different treatments -- at what point am I overdoing it and curing the disease but killing my fish? What more should I be doing or what should I stop at this point? Should I remove all the plastic plants and accessories and wash them in a vinegar solution? I feared this would keep stressing them out....Help! I can't think of anything else but to save my babies...
Holistic Answer Seeker
<Hello. The "holistic" answer to healthy fish is to optimise water quality and provide a healthy diet. That's it. Nothing else. Usually when people have problems with fish health it's either the water quality is poor or they offer their fish an unhealthy diet, for example one containing feeder fish. I mention these things because a 50 gallon tank is way too small for the fish you have, a single Notopterus notopterus (Featherfin Knifefish) will easily overwhelm that tank once it reaches its adult size of around 60 cm (about 24 inches). Obviously the Danio and Hatchetfish will end up as food, and while these Knifefish are predators in the wild, allowing predatory fish to consume live fish in captivity is one of the best ways to make them sick. (Both Danios and Hatchets should be in schools, preferably in separate tanks, since Danios tend to bully/kill Hatchetfish.) In any case, let's review the Ick problem. The combination of salt and heat should kill the free-living parasites once the cysts burst open. Do bear in mind that an open cyst is a pathway for secondary infections, and one of the major problems with severe Ick outbreaks is that things like Finrot can soon follow on. Because Knifefish are more tolerant of salt than copper/formalin, I'd definitely be using the salt and heat method to treat them. Indeed, some Knifefish inhabit brackish water, and the Asian species especially are pretty adaptable. Do not add any other medications to the water during this phase. Very few medications interact well. Do a couple of big (50% plus) water changes between the end of using one treatment and the beginning of another, so that you can flush out any residual medication.
You can also filter with fresh carbon for the same effect, but frankly water changes are good so why not do them anyway? All else being equal, I'd expect otherwise healthy Knifefish to recover from Ick without too much fuss. But this is contingent on ammonia and nitrite being zero and the pH staying stable, in other words, conditions in the tank being good. In the meantime, start saving up for that 200 gallon tank: you're going to need it! Cheers, Neale.>

Re: Ich, Meds, & Scaleless– 1/20/09
Thanks Neale for your response, because I may have a cough, but if I take all 40 cough meds available to me I may cure the problem but harm myself in the process.
<Hi Michelle, your analogy is a good one. All medications are poisons: it's a question of dose.>
That's where I'm at with all the articles on here - you all endorse Aquarisol, RidIch+ and some other meds at half strength with scaleless and some other remedies here and there, but as for the whole package approach at one time you say just stick to heat, salt, good food and 50% water changes
<We each have different experiences, but broadly speaking you'll find agreement on the basics; tea-tree oil doesn't work, salt is useful for specific problems, not everything; and copper-based medications are toxic to different fish at varying levels.>
I'm confused by some points in your response. 1.You say I have a Featherfin Knifefish that can reach 2 feet, I don't - I have Featherfin catfish which reach 10 in max., aka Synodontis Eupterus.
<Ah, that wasn't clear from your list. It seemed to be a list of Knifefish. As you say, S. eupterus isn't so big. A nice fish, by the way.>
And I have the one inch zebra Danio, not the giant ones so they have never bothered the Hatchetfish.
<The Zebras can be bullies! Not every time, and not in every tank. As you can understand, I have to try and offer advice that works in the most possible situations.>
Brown and Black knives usually leave all alone if they are fed twice a day as I've experienced and Bob Fenner mentions in his articles.
<Does vary on the tank and the tankmates. If yours are happy, that's great.
But ordinarily, I wouldn't recommend people mix them, and certainly not in relatively modest aquaria.>
2. So the complete approach is Heat, salt and water changes are the answer?
The heat is 85 and quite a challenge to maintain with 50% water changes and isn't there a risk of gas bubble disease or water hardness issues from the tap?
<Salt/heat should work fine. As for the water changes, provided you dechlorinate the water, I can't see any problems with gas or hardness, assuming the water isn't a problem for the fish ordinarily. You don't have to keep the water at 30 C (85 F) by the way. All heat does is speed up the life cycle, so instead of it taking a week for the cysts to burst, it only takes a couple of days. So if you're more comfortable keeping the fish at, say, 28 C (82 F) then by all means do so, or even cooler if you prefer.
It's the SALT not the HEAT that kills the parasite.>
How often should I be doing the water changes - from the bottom or top?
<Your normal water change cycle would be fine, say, 25% per week.>
After each one should I be replenishing with aquarium salt at the rate of 1 Tablespoon per 10 gallons removed?
<Yes: any water removed should be replaced with salted water. Evaporated water should be replaced with UNSALTED water, since evaporation doesn't carry away the salt. Please do weigh out your tablespoons, at least once, to check you're adding the right amount of salt. A tablespoon should be three teaspoons, or about 3 x 6 = 18 grammes. That's about 0.65 ounces.>
It falls to the bottom and remains solid so does that run the risk of having too much in the aquarium if I didn't vacuum it all?
<Are we talking about salt here? DO NOT add salt to the aquarium! Dissolve the salt in the bucket of water first. While the danger of grains of salt sitting in the tank isn't in itself a huge risk, if a fish is stupid enough to eat a lump of salt, that would be fatal.>
As for food I feed them Hikari bloodworms in AM, and then pinch of flake food and 2 algae chips in evening.
<Sounds good.>
And finally, I really should stop the RidIch+?
<Yes; salt/heat OR Ick medication. No need for both.>
By the way, Day 5, nothing is better; the ich is on their eyes. I'm doing a 50% water change - I've been doing it every other day. Day 1 was 70%, then Day 3 was 30%, now I'll do a 50%.
<Let me clarify. How long have you been treating with salt/heat? The salt won't work until the cysts burst. I'm also curious about whether this really is Ick. There are some other things that can look similar. Any chance of a photo? Other things might be Velvet or physical trauma.>
Thanks,
M
<Cheers, Neale.>

Re: Ich, Meds, & Scaleless– 1/20/09
Neale,
<Hello,>
I just took out all the plastic plants thinking that maybe they have to be rinsed well of the food particles and what not that accumulates over time.
I carefully inspected them all - 1/2 don't seem infected.
<We're talking about the plastic plants? These won't be "infected" with anything, though any wet object can carry Ick parasites from one tank to another (why retailers sterilise their nets in between catching fish for customers). By all means clean plastic plants, I'd recommend every month or so, or whenever they look dirty. But in and of themselves, they should really cause problems.>
The two worst are the pictus catfish - in fact, one has blood red spots on the tips of several fins.
<Now this sounds like Finrot.>
They are both entirely covered with salt-size-dots that I assume to be Ich (i.e. Just as if you salted a fish for dinner.)
<"Salt grains" accurately describes Ick, I'll admit that. But because Ick (brought in with the new fish) breaks the skin/mucous layer on a fish, it makes them vulnerable to Finrot and Fungus, so you may have multiple issues to deal with. On the plus side, there is no reason not to use a reputable Finrot medication (e.g., Maracyn) alongside salt/heat treatment. Maracyn obviously works in brackish and marine fish tanks, so a tiny bit of salt isn't going to cause any problems.>
Then my brown knives are coated in the same tiny white dots and several eyes are going cloudy now too. So it looks like it's bacterial as well?
<I think we're dealing with two issues at once.>
I just scrubbed and rinsed my Whisper filter. I put the two carbon filters back in.
<Do please remember: Carbon removes medications (other than salt) from the water. You cannot treat fish while leaving carbon in the filter. Even I've made this mistake, and wondered why my fish didn't heal. The reality is that carbon is more trouble (and expense) than it's worth in most freshwater tanks.>
Every time I add water I try to make it the same temperature, add a tiny drop of water conditioner to take out metals.
<Not sure what you mean by a "tiny" drop, but the dose on the package per gallon, yes.>
I added the dissolved salt water - API aquarium salt, right?
<This is fine. You don't want marine salt mix because that would alter the pH and hardness. Tonic or aquarium salt, such as that from API, should be fine.>
I don't know what else to do. Should I pull out the pictus, set up a hospital tank for them separately because one of them was the one who started all this?
<No. I'd treat everyone together.>
But I still have to treat my main tank? My poor baby brown knife is hovering vertical in the corner in distress that I safely had for years; I don't think she has much longer.
<Do please review the environment, just in case. It's easy to assume water quality and pH are good because they always have been, and in fact they're not any more. But assuming they're good, I think the problem here is that we've got Ick that prompted a Finrot outbreak, and because you've used carbon, the Ick medication didn't work, so things kept getting worse. The real damage Ick does is to the gills, making fish increasingly "out of breath" and that's why they look so unhappy. The good news is that they should recover, even from fairly bad cases, given the right treatment.>
Losing it,
M
<Good luck, Neale.>

Re: Ich, Meds, & Scaleless– 1/20/09
Neale,
re fin rot
I have been reading about this bacteria and I am separating them, but have I been making them sicker by adding salt?
<The salt dose I recommend is very low, and won't stress your fish unduly.
Even salinities as high as around 6 g/l (SG 1.003, about 0.8 oz per gallon) aren't going to harm freshwater fish in the short term. Indeed, elevated salinities may have some therapeutic value under some situations.>
See: http://www.aquariumlife.net/articles/fish-diseases/22.asp
<That's a good article, but the comment on salt is a bit misguided. Salt has little/no impact on Finrot directly, though fish that prefer saline conditions (for example Mollies) are more prone to Finrot when salt isn't added to the water. The bacteria that cause Finrot live in fresh, brackish and saltwater conditions, so obviously salt itself isn't toxic to them.
Now, while adding salt in the long term (i.e., every week) isn't a good idea with freshwater fish, in the short term (a few weeks of treatment) there is little evidence it harms them, and by contrast much more evidence that the alternatives (such as copper) are more immediately toxic. This is why "delicate" fish such as Stingrays, Mormyrids, Knifefish and Loaches are treated with the salt/heat method, not copper-based standard issue Ick medications. Is salt poisonous to catfish? No more so than to any other freshwater fish, and there are in fact MANY catfish that live in brackish water habitats, and a surprising number that live in the sea. It comes as a surprise to many people who repeat this "salt is dangerous to catfish" idea that there are in fact catfish that live on coral reefs!>
"The use of aquarium salt will benefit livebearing fish, but should be avoided in fish, such as scaleless catfish, that are sensitive to salt"
<Scales are neither here nor there. Moray eels don't have scales, but they live in the sea. Goldfish have scales, but live in freshwater. It's all to do with how a fish is adapted to its environment, and nothing at all to do with its skin! Cheers, Neale.>

Re: Ich, Meds, & Scaleless– 1/20/09
Neale,
To answer your questions - I removed the carbon 5 days ago when I began treating this - I know it removes medicines.
<Cool.>
I never put it back in there until today when I removed all the plastic plants because it stirred up so much debris that I needed to cycle it out to clean the water along with my 50% water change. 1/2 my fish, not plastic plants, look sick, the other half fine - that's why I thought it a good idea to isolate the pictus in a hospital tank - so now that we know we have comorbidity (multiple things going on here) should I begin with the Maracyn?
<I would.>
m
<Cheers, Neale.>

Re: Ich, Meds, & Scaleless
Neale,
They are dying now by the minute. The ich seems to have receded except with the African brown knives. Bala showed no signs, even with the Ich, except today a bloody top fin where it connects to him. My small African brown knife died and internally at the tail and mouth it was blood colored. My medium African brown knife is upside down. What's the most awful new symptom is giant pieces of skin of the Featherfin catfish and brown knives were just falling off in large grey pieces like something out of a horror movie. I did the Day 2 dosage of Maracyn and Day 1 dosage for Maracyn-Two.
How did this happen? All from a sick pictus? I just don't understand how my whole tank is dying and not responding to anything - I change the water every 48 hours. The temp stays at 84. What is going on that it only gets worse? Is it possible they have true fungi and body fungi and internal and external body infections all at the same time? My water is so clean, I put in an extra bubble wand, removed the decor...I'm just so lost and tired of crying with each death. It just feels so hopeless.
M
<Michelle, if the fish are becoming bloody on the body and not just the fins, that tends to imply a systemic bacterial infection, something akin to septicaemia. That is very difficult to cure, which is why the accent when dealing with bacterial infections is to recognise them early on (the Finrot stage) or better yet, prevent them altogether. So in all honesty, I cannot offer much hope with regard to the fish already at that point. Ick doesn't so much "recede" as move from the whitespot cyst phase to the free-living stage in the water. The fish that have lost their cysts haven't been cured: it is essential to understand this. The cysts have burst, and the parasites are now in the water. The salt should kill those parasites, so your fish will not be re-infected, and that's how the Ick cycle gets broken. Now, the burst cysts are sites for secondary infections, so it is critical to keep an eye on them for any signs of Finrot or Fungus. I am concerned that things have spiraled out of control incredibly quickly here, which is why I don't think Ick by itself is the issue. I can't stress this point strongly enough: you must check the water quality and water chemistry to see if there's anything else that might be causing problems. If this was me, and I was losing a bunch of fish rapidly, I'd be super-critical of aquarium conditions. I'd take the fish out and put them in a bucket. I'd remove the filter, rinse the media, and keep it running, connected to the bucket with the fish (easy to do with canister filters just by moving the inlet and outlet hoses to the bucket). I'd then strip down the aquarium, give everything a good clean, especially the gravel, and re-fill will fresh, dechlorinated water (with salt added in this case). Once that was done, I'd acclimate the fish to the new aquarium water just as if you'd bought them new. In other words, I'd remove some (10-15%) water from the bucket, replace with water from the aquarium, and repeat this 5 or 6 times over the next couple of hours. Then the fish would be lifted out and put into the tank. The idea is to minimise contamination of the new aquarium water with water from the bucket. Anyway, yes, this is fairly extreme, but at least this way I'd be assured the fish had optimal water quality without being exposed to rapid changes in pH, hardness or temperature. Since the Ick life cycle has broken, you can lower the water temperature to the normal 25 C/77 F. To answer your question, can all this be caused by one new fish, the answer is quite clearly "yes". The bigger question though is did the catfish bring in a disease that caused this problem, or did the catfish merely destabilise what was already a flawed aquarium. I mention that because in my experience aquaria have a "carrying capacity", and one fish can throw the whole thing off balance, until the livestock "die back" to a stable level. It isn't easy to predict this level, and "inch per gallon" rules are seriously misleading. So as I say, be critical about how heavily stocked your tank is, and think about whether filtration is adequate and if the available carbonate hardness is adequate to maintain a stable pH. Sorry I can't offer any easy fixes. Good luck, Neale.>

Questions about specific treatments for Ich.  10/25/08
Hi We have a large tank with blood fin tetras, black widow tetra's, Gourami's, Pleco's Angel fish, Mystery (Apple) snails , Kuhli loaches, and a platy. My question is regarding which fish will not cope with treatment with Wardley's Ick away. I hear that loaches will not cope with a full dose treatment. so we will isolate the Kuhlis in another tank and half dose them, Their is a concern with the Tetra's, The blood fin's and the Black widow tetra's. Are they fine with a full dose treatment. Also the snail's are they going to be affected. Are plants going to be affected also?
thank you for your time. also if any of the other fish are not ok with the treatment please let me know.
My approach will be to remove Kuhli loaches.
Turn off the aquarium light (Treatment deteriorates in light), Raise the temperature to 27 degrees Celsius (80.6f) (To speed up life cycle of Ich (Ichthyophthirius multifilis).
Treat with appropriate dose for a week. Vacuum tank every couple of days.
Re dosing salt after vacuum (A couple handfuls for the 160 litre tank) and cross fingers that the treatment clears up the infestation and flashing.
thank you for your time, I appreciate your effort..
cheers
mike and Nicola
<Copper- and formalin-based medications are lethal to snails and shrimps. There are also some reports of certain medications being stressful/toxic to loaches and catfish. So in this instance I'd eschew standard Ick medications in favour of salt/heat treatment. See here:
http://www.wetwebmedia.com/FWSubWebIndex/fwich.htm
Raise the temperature to 82-86 F. Add salt to a jug of warm water at a dose of 2-3 teaspoons per gallon (12-18 grammes per 3.8 litres) of water in your aquarium. Dribble slowly into the outflow from the filter so it quickly stirs into the water. Leave for 1-2 weeks, and then lower the thermostat and do your regular water changes to gradually lower the salinity. This very low salinity is harmless to your fish and invertebrates, but will kill the free living parasites (not the white spots you can see!) breaking the cycle of re-infection. Cheers, Neale.>

Ich! help!!!  10/14/08
Dear WWM crew...
<Hi,>
i have a 55 gallon fully planted aquarium, which i have been working on since January of last year. Up until 3 days ago, everything was in order. I do a 10- 15 percent water change religiously... (AT LEAST twice a week), i feed sparingly, and i have an eheim canister filter that hasn't failed me yet. 3 days ago i noticed that my lampeye killies were dying off, one or two a day. I had a shoal of 9, but now only one is left. I also had a Prochilodus that was with me from the very beginning, and he just kicked the can this morning.
<When more than one fish dies within a few days, and especially if more than one species is affected, the FIRST thing you do is grab your test kits and check the nitrite and the pH. Why? You want to know [a] whether water quality remains good; and [b] whether the pH is stable, and therefore whether water chemistry is stable.>
I made sure the filter was properly working, i did a 50 percent water change, and then i noticed on my beautiful Congo tetras, small white spots all over! Also, it looks as if their fins are starting to deteriorate!
<Almost certainly a reaction to poor conditions. The Whitespot tends to come in with new livestock, and there's much debate about whether it can lie "dormant" in tanks for any length of time. So the question is what have you recently added to the tank? Do be aware that nets can transfer Whitespot parasites, and they can even get into tanks via plants, if those plants were in tanks with fish. On the other hand, Finrot is an opportunistic infection that appears whenever fish are stressed.>
I have had these Congos for months, and their finnage is finally stunning...to lose them now would kill me....I also noticed white salt looking spots on almost all my other fish. My threadfin rainbows are covered, and even my Endler guppies are fighting white specks on their fins. I have researched online ich treatment, but they all prescribe a medicine
which might be potentially harmful to my giant Amano shrimp, cherry shrimp, and clams... what can i do to save my fish? and keep my inverts alive as well??? please help!
<You're in the classic "Morton's Fork" that reef-keepers have to deal with. Formalin and especially copper-based medications are lethal to shrimps and most other invertebrates. Your best option is to raise the water temperature to around 28-30 C and add salt (tonic salt is fine) so that the salinity is raised to the point where the free-living theronts (which emerge from the cysts) are killed.
http://www.wetwebmedia.com/FWSubWebIndex/fwich.htm
This requires a dose of 2-3 teaspoons per gallon. Don't add the salt directly: instead heat some water to about 40 degrees C, pour into a jug, and then stir in the necessary amount of salt to make a brine. Over a few hours, add this to the tank to gently raise the salinity, taking care to keep stirring the jug or adding more warm water if any salt comes out of solution. Leave the tank running at this elevated salinity for 2-3 weeks, and then turn down the heater and do a series of water changes across the next week or so to return things to normal. This low level of salinity is harmless to fish and shrimps (and, usually, plants), but will be enough to kill the Whitespot.>
best. peter
<Cheers, Neale.>

Clown Pleco Skin Patchy-ness... medication poisoning, reading   10/11/08
Hello,
<Jasmine>
Well, to start I have 9 Zebra Danio's, 10 Neon Tetra's, 6 Harlequins, 2 Cory's, a rather peaceful Siamese Fighter, and a Clown Pleco. My tank was recently infected with the Whitespot disease which killed off all 6 or my Bleeding Hearts, my other Clown Pleco, a male and female Dwarf Gourami's (I still have 1 other female Dwarf Gourami but I suspect she won't make it) and all 7 of my Emperor Tetra's. (The Emperor's where the ones to bring it into the tank.) We used Exit
<www.eshalabs.eu/pages_eu/product_engels.html?zoom=2&download=1 - >
for the Whitespot and the treatment worked on the rest that didn't die but its started to come back on the Neon's and Siamese (who is dubbed Jackie Chan ^_^).
<Good name>
We're treating the Ick again
<I would be reading on WWM re... at least elevating temp. to bolster a cure here: http://wetwebmedia.com/FWSubWebIndex/fwichremedyyes.htm
and the linked files above>
but my main problem at the moment is my Clown Pleco. He's chocolate brown with kind-of yellow spots and stripes.. So far he hasn't been affected at all by the Ick but I've noticed he's gotten some lighter patches on his skin.
<Is affected... more by the eSHa product likely...>
They seem to be crescent shape and go down his back (though this is in a regular pattern). He's also gone very quiet (whereas before he was quite active) and isn't eating as much. He's barely moved at all day.
<Being poisoned... have you measured any ammonia, nitrite...?>
I did a water test and the results came back fine aside from the pH which showed between 5-6.
<Dangerously low... likely not well buffered either... Do you know much re alkalinity AND pH? Please see WWM re, and possibly at least mix in some source water with appreciable hardness>
I don't know if there is something wrong with the Pleco but I'm quite fond of him and am not keen on losing any more fish. ^_^;
<Then... I'd be reading... Stat>
Any help would be much appreciated.
Jasmine Law
<Read. Bob Fenner>

Re: Clown Pleco Skin Patchy-ness, Ich    10/12/08
Hello,
<Jasmine>
Many thanks for your help, it is greatly appreciated. I read on your site about raising the temperature to kill the Ick, and I've now raised it to 80 F however I am concerned about raising the temperature to the level required to kill off all stages of Ick as I know some of the fish I have, such as the Danios, tend to prefer cooler temperatures.
<Ah, yes>
Would it be ok, bearing in mind the different species I have, to raise the temperature?
<Yes... better by far than to suffer, perhaps perish from the ich itself... or more medicine exposure. If they were mine, I'd go ahead and raise the temperature to 83-84 F.. This is not too high for Danios in the short term>
What temperature do you consider tolerable for the different fish in the tank?
<For all the species you list (below) in your original email, this temporary elevation will be fine... Do take care in a couple weeks however to lower it slowly... no more than a degree per day or so>
I've done another water change. And another water test. The results came back as:
GH - 180
KH - 180
PH - 7.0
Nitrites CNO2 - 0
Nitrates - 20
<Mmm, the Nitrates are borderline high... going forward I would read re such on WWM:
http://wetwebmedia.com/FWSubWebIndex/fwnitrates.htm
and the linked FAQs file above... and do what you can to reduce this level>
Also, in the past week I have done two 50% water changes (leaving a few days between each change) and another 25% earlier today.
<Good>
I checked the Clown Pleco and I couldn't spy any patches on him. I hope this is an improvement. Though he is still quiet and not moving as much.
Thanks again for your help.
Jasmine Law
<Bob Fenner>

Ick/Whitespot  7/22/08
Hi Guys,
I added five new baby neon tetra's to my tank recently - it seems the neon's have all developed Ick/Whitespot. I already had 6 Neon's 2 guppies and a Sailfin Molly - these all appear to be fine.
<So far at least...
http://www.wetwebmedia.com/FWSubWebIndex/mollies.htm
Do review the needs of Mollies, and also be warned Neons may nip the fins of fancy male Guppies.>
I have read your articles regarding ICK and just wanted to confirm your recommendation for best way to treat.
<Promptly!>
I was just going to buy meds and treat the tank with meds and regular water changes. However from reading through your site would you recommend increasing temperature and treating with Salt instead?
<Makes no odds either way. I tend to use commercial medications such as eSHa EXIT (a brand I find works well even with sensitive species like puffers) because it's easier. But if you want to use salt/temperature, go ahead.>
I have added salt before but never with the neon's only with mollies/guppies can my neon's tolerate salt? also my temp is at 80f already is it safe to increase the temp further?
<Neons should tolerate the very low salt concentration required, particularly if you build up the salinity across a few days. As for raising the temperature, I wouldn't. Temperature is about speeding up the life cycle of the parasite; in itself it isn't a "treatment" as such. The idea is that the salt only kills the free living parasite, so the sooner that phase begins, the better.>
Thanks in advance
Scott
<Cheers, Neale.>

Help! Emergency!, Ich treatment, Water Changes 6/17/08
Hey!
<Hello>
Um......I'm in a bit of a jam. My 20 gallon tank which has quite a bit of fish in there has had two guppies develop ich and I have already had to kill them.
<Why? Need to slow way down here.>
Would a water change help?
<Would help improve the environmental conditions I bet.>
If so, could you give me directions how to do it?
<All you seek is here http://www.wetwebmedia.com/FWSubWebIndex/fwmaintindex.htm .>
Is there anything else that I could do?
<Yes, see here http://www.wetwebmedia.com/FWSubWebIndex/fwich.htm .>
My dad Already said no to treating in because he says the treatment turns the water a dark blue and he says that its like you're actually poisoning them.
<I think he is talking about using Methylene Blue, which is very safe but not very effective.>
Please e-mail back! Also, I have another 10 gallon tank for my newborn fry. Could I get ich in that too?
<Yes>
Should I do a water change?
<When in doubt do a water change.>
-Sarah
<Chris>

Frustrated with Fish, FW Disease, Ich 5/14/08
I have a 55Gallon goldfish tank. It has been up and running for a few months now. The numbers are as follows Ammonia = 0 Nitrites = 0 Nitrates = 60ppm this number is due to a problem with source water, recently I switched to using spring water as recommended by my LFS. This seems to have solved that problem.
<Might want to look into an RO/DI unit, could be cheaper in the long term depending on what the spring water costs you.>
I am now battling ich. I used Maracide to treat the tank.
<Malachite green, pretty toxic stuff. There are less toxic means to fight this, see here http://www.wetwebmedia.com/FWSubWebIndex/fwich.htm . >
I treated the tank exactly per the instructions. I also brought the temperature of the tank up to 76F to try and speed up the life cycle of the parasite. All but one of the goldfish died (there were four fancy in total). The little black moor that is left is on his way out and the strange thing about it is that the ich never actually left the bodies of the fish. Over the course of treatment of seven days the ich never dropped off the fish. The black moor has more ich on him now then when I started treating. Is there anything that can be done for him?
<Could try a formalin bath, but be wary, formalin is also fairly toxic to people, so may not be appropriate for a work environment. Don't want to get in trouble for bringing a carcinogen into a doctor's office.>
Also I cannot let the tank go fallow because it is set up at a prominent doctor’s office and it also houses two ACF's, which by the way are doing just Jim dandy. I need some help. I am getting frustrated and losing fish and my boss is losing confidence in my ability to manage the tank. Please help...
<Can be frustrating.>
Treat with an alternative medication? (After a huge water change and running carbon so as not to overdose the tank on meds.)
<I would probably try to avoid medications here since you can not QT these fish, most medications will destroy your biofilter and lead to water quality issues. I would try using salt first, "about 1 teaspoon per 5 gallons for two weeks." http://www.wetwebmedia.com/FWSubWebIndex/gldfshdisease.htm .>
Is Maracide typically an effective solution?
<Yes, but it leads to poor water quality which can cause even more problems to the already weakened fish.>
How do I get the critters off of the fish so I can kill them?
<They pretty much have to cycle off themselves, most treatments attack them in their more vulnerable free swimming stage.>
When might I ever be able to have fish again?
<Without a fish host their lifecycle is about 2 weeks. Best bet here is to QT any new fish before placement in the tank to avoid these types of problems.>
Can I add fish while I medicate to ensure they do not contract the disease?
<I would not add anything to the tank while treating. However if the tank is devoid of fish not treatment is necessary, without fish hosts the tank will be ich free in about a month.>
What about the ACF's they handled the Maracide well but I researched it and contacted Mardel to make sure it was safe, is an alternative medication also going to sit well with them?
<Amphibians are going to be very sensitive to any chemical you put in the water, so best bet here is to just let the tank run fishless for a month since the Ich cannot host on the frogs.>
I read that adding salt could be effective but I also read that ACF's do not tolerate salt well?
<They do not generally do well with salt. My advice here is to let the frogs run the tank for a month, then add new fish after a month long QT to make sure they do not bring in any new diseases.>
Oh and finally, I forgot there is a little butterfly loach in there as well. He seems to be fine although determining his health is tough because he isn't very active.
<If he remains in the tank, so will the Ich.>
Also I do know the benefits of a quarantine tank and I am kicking myself but my options are limited because of the fact that I am not able to make my own decisions about the tank.
<For a display tank like this a QT tank is almost mandatory, for the simple fact that can't easily break down the tank and run it fallow. I think the doctor would hopefully understand the old "ounce of prevention" saying if you explain the benefits to him/her.>
<Chris>

African Cichlids scratching 5-1-08
Malawi Cichlids With Stubborn Itch
Hi Chuck, We wrote to you back in January 2006 about an issue with our fish scratching on rocks, gravel, etc. I've included the e-mails below.
Just wondering if we could ask for your advice one more time!
I'll give you an update... After your advice we treated for Ich/ Protozoa infection on two separate occasions. The first dose didn't stop them scratching so our local fish shop recommended a second, prolonged treatment with a different brand (ie 2 treatments back to back). That proved to be a disaster; it not only failed to stop the scratching, but also killed many fish. We were left with a few P. saulosi, P. acei and some Synodontis catfish. We spoke to many fish shops and no one could help us or suggest any further treatments.
One said it could be the water conditioner or that it could just be natural behaviour. Having lost so many fish we had given up on treating them any further and just thought we'd see how things go. Over the past 2 years we've completely changed the rock, the sand, all water conditioners/hardeners/etc., tried different foods, got a bigger canister filter, put in some powerheads, added Seachem Purigen to the filter (changed monthly) and maintained good water conditions throughout. (Phew) All the fish seemed very healthy. They bred many many times (to the point that there were far too many for the tank) and even our Synodontis population tripled using the saulosi as hosts. Everything was perfect...except they were STILL scratching!
A week ago we sold all the fish except the Synodontis and bought a colony of 5 large venustus (1 male 25cm, 4 females 20cm).
Unfortunately I noticed the male scratching last night. I can't see anything visually wrong, no spots or anything. We checked the water conditions and got the following: GH = 22 deg., KH = 10 deg., pH = 8, ammonia = 0, nitrites = 0, nitrates < 5ppm (didn't register any on the test). I'm absolutely stumped and very frustrated. It seems obvious that it's a parasite... Do you have any ideas on what it could be? Is there any way of testing the fish before trying to treat them? Any natural remedies that won't kill the fish? Any non-parasite ideas?
Sorry about the long e-mail! Thanks in advance. Carl & Monica
< Ideally you take a sample of the protective slim from the skin of the fish and look at it under a microscope. Look for parasites that may be causing the irritation. If you tried the Rid-Ich, then I am surprised that it didn't work. Generally new fish are stressed and they produce lots of this protective slim. Sometimes they produce enough to overcome the parasite and the organism becomes less of a problem. To increase the slim you could add aquarium or rock salt. You don't want to add too much because the slim will coat the gills and impede respiration. Other natural remedies would be to increase the water temp to the mid 80's F. Higher temps increase the metabolism of the organism and they cannot keep this up. Think of it as giving your tank a fever to fight a cold. I would start by adding a tablespoon of salt per 5 gallons of water and raise the water temp to 83 F. If the fish act too stressed then reduce the water temp until they feel more comfortable. If the eyes are also cloudy then it could be bacterial. Try Furanace, it works well on both bacteria and funguses. Minerals and metals may also cause the irritations. You could set up a quarantine tank and fill it with treated R/O or treated distilled water. That way you are in control of the minerals/metals in the water.-Chuck>

Re: white specks 4/23/08
Hi Mike and Crew,
Thank you for the advice given so far.
The tank inhabitants are one male and three female Neolamprologus multifasciatus, chosen to suit the small tank. My current water conditions are as follows;
Ammonia - .1ppm
<Too much! Tanganyikans are notoriously sensitive to nitrogenous waste, and even Nitrate causes problems, let alone Ammonia. So, first up, review feeding and filtration. If these are basically fine, then also check you don't have ammonia in your drinking water. Sometimes as plain vanilla ammonia, sometimes as chloramine. In either case, you'll need to take remedial action by adding the appropriate conditioner to the water prior to use. All this said, if there's traces of ammonia in the drinking water, any half-decent filtration system should remove it quite quickly.>
Nitrite- 0ppm
Nitrate- 0ppm-1ppm
PH- 7.6 (not currently adding Alkaline Buffer as I've been doing twice a week 50% water changes to keep the white specks numbers down)
<Hmm... not sure you *can* safely economise on carbonate hardness in a Tanganyikan tank.>
GH-179ppm (not currently adding KH/PH Plus as I've been doing twice a week 50% water changes to keep the white specks numbers down)
KH-179ppm (as above)
<Adding a pH buffer is largely irrelevant if you're adding sufficient carbonate hardness. DIY recipes for making Rift Valley water using cheap grocery store chemicals cost pennies per gallon. A common Rift Valley salt mix is as follows. Per 5 gallons/20 litres:
1 teaspoon baking soda (sodium bicarbonate)
1 tablespoon Epsom salt (magnesium sulfate)
1 teaspoon marine salt mix (sodium chloride + trace elements)
Or get a recipe from a Rift Valley cichlid book, and then act accordingly. While I agree that commercial Rift Valley salts are pricey, that doesn't mean you can economise while treating your fish. Raising the carbonate hardness should automatically take care of the pH without any further need to add chemicals.>
In my attempts to eradicate the organism I have tried an 18 day course of white spot eliminator, which had very limited effect. I then let the tank sit for two weeks before trying two courses of Parasite Eliminator, followed by water changes as directed, again with very limited results.
<Do check you have removed carbon. One of the most common reasons medication don't seem to work is that carbon was left in the system.>
As I learn more about the fish and fish keeping, I am hesitant to add more medications, instead doing twice weekly water changes to let the tank and fish recover from medications. I will try to take photo for more info but the specks don't photograph to well, as they are tiny. They could be compared to half a grain of sand size, and seem to be able to change
directions in the water as they move against the current.
<Sound like either Whitespot or Velvet; many medications treat both. Whitespot looks like salt, Velvet is smaller and looks like confectioners/icing sugar. Velvet also tends to have a slight golden sheen, hence the name. Often Velvet attacks the gills before anything else, so your fish "flash" against objects in irritation before any white spots become visible. Because Velvet attacks the gills early on, it is almost always associated with rapid or laboured breathing relative to normal.>
At present I have not seen the white spots form on the fish like any of the pictures on the net, admittedly they are small fish which makes it hard to see. Thank you again for you time and assistance any advice is much appreciated.
Kind regards,
Darren.
<Hope this helps, Neale.>

Brown knife and ich, reading   4/17/08
A few fish in my tank have ich I added a medication called quick cure wondering if it will affect my brown knife fish?
<Mmm, yes. The active ingredients (copper sulfate and formalin if memory serves) will likely kill any Apteronotid>
I would like to cure the ich without harming the Knife so what do you suggest?
<That you read: http://wetwebmedia.com/
see the Freshwater Subweb... re FW Knives, their Health/Diseases, the articles on Ich, and the active ingredients in Quick Cure. Likely simply elevating temp. will "do it" here... as you will find by reading. Bob Fenner>

Ick, FW... Discus incl.  -03/27/08
Hello,
I have discus and cardinal tetra in a 44 gallon tank. The tetras have the ich white spots. As soon as I noticed them I raised the tank temperature to 82-84 removed the carbon filter and treated with Rid-Ich.
After several days and treatments the ich was still on them. I then did a 50% water change and began treating with super ich treatment. The discus appeared to be stressed so after two days put filter back in and did water change. Cardinals still have white spots but not noticeable on Discus.
What can I use to get rid of the Ich and not harm or stress the discus?
Any assistance you can give me would be greatly appreciated.
Susan
<Hi Susan. There's really no magic to Ick medications, and when they don't work, it's either because the disease was misidentified (e.g., it's Velvet, not Ick) or else the medication was used improperly (e.g., wrong concentration, without removing carbon, etc.). So check these things; it's easy to make mistakes. Next up, I'd recommend trying alternate brands of medication. I've found some medications much less effective than others in some instances. I'm not a huge fan of raising the temperature when using copper/formalin medications IF the Ick problem is being dealt with early on. The standard operating temperature for Discus is around 28C/82F, and that should be ample warmth to speed the Ick life cycle to under a week. Raising the temperature makes more sense with coldwater/subtropical fish where the life cycle takes longer. Because Ick damages the gill membranes, the combo of high temperature (= low oxygen) coupled with the Ick damage can lead to breathing problems for the fish. In any case, removing carbon shouldn't be causing distress to your fish. If you have so much organic material being dumped into the aquarium that the water turns nasty within a few days, you have bigger problems than Ick! Seriously, carbon plays no particularly useful role in freshwater aquaria so I wouldn't bother with it. Do always check that "modules" in filters don't have hidden carbon sachets. Carbon exists in the hobby primarily as a way for manufacturers to extract cash from consumers, and they love to build in carbon (costs pennies) into filters to force inexperienced consumers to buy new carbon modules every month. Almost every time I've experienced or been told about Ick medication not working, it's been because there was carbon somewhere in the system. Cheers, Neale.>

Ick, planted aquaria  -03/17/08
Hello Crew, Once Again I Need Some Advice.
<Overdoing the capital letters, I think!>
In The Marine Hobby 20 Years, Newbie To FW Planted Tank. My planted FW Tank Is Flourishing Beyond My expectations.
<And that's bad because...?>
5 Cardinal Tetras, 2 Pairs Fancy Guppies. 6 mo old. I Noticed 2 of the cardinals Have Ich (White Spots) How Can I effectively treat a live planted tank without any effect on the plants?
<Plain vanilla Ick medication should work fine. It was true in the old days that some medications harmed plants, but nowadays this isn't the case. Most modern formulations are fine; check the box/bottle for any notices to the contrary.>
I do have a Quarantine tank, Can I simply remove them? does the Ich Parasite remain live in the tank without fish?
<Just as with Marine Ick, if you remove the fish, the free-living parasites die after a week or two.>
Does It attach to plants?
<Free-living parasites can of course be present in the water on a plant, but the parasite cannot feed on the plant so will die if it cannot find a fish host.>
Do I need to treat Both the tank and the fish?
<Leave the fish 'in situ' and then treat the tank.>
Thanks Crew,
Grateful To The Crew In NJ..
<Cheers, Neale.>

Salt&heat or Meds for Ich? – 03/10/08
Hi, thanks in advance for all your help. I discovered just a few ich spots on my platies, and the different kinds of treatments I read about sound intimidating. I have aquarium salt on hand that I use regularly since they are livebearers, but I hesitate to put my fish through the high temperatures and lower oxygen. What would you suggest as safest for platies? Salt&heat,
or do I make a run to the pet store tomorrow? If salt&heat, what's the recommended course of action (how much, how long, and what temperature)?
Thanks so much. You people are awesome.
~Jen
P.S. Specs of the tank, in case it helps:
20 gal freshwater Species tank of 3 varieties of platies: total of 10 fish between 1 and 2
inches each Regular dosage of 1 Tbsp aquarium salt per 5 gallons during water changes
<Jen, to be honest I'd just use a standard copper-based Ick medication. Platies are sufficiently hardy that copper intolerance isn't really an issue. That said, you can raise the salinity to SG 1.003 (6 g/l), perhaps even SG 1.005 (9 g/l) with care, and the Platies should be fine and even without additional heat the Ick will die off quite quickly. Raise the salinity across a few days, leave it there for a couple of weeks, then bring it down again. Cheers, Neale.>

Ick problems with goldfish   3/5/08
Hello,
I have a fantail goldfish that got Ich about a week ago and I have been treating her with Maracide using the directions on the bottle. She did not appear to get any better after the week the bottle advised for treatment, so i bought a heater after reading a website that suggested to do so and also got pure NaCl to create a .3% salt solution in the tank. I have the heater set on about 81 degrees, and i was wondering how long it will take for the Ich to all die, and especially wondering if there is anything I am doing wrong?
Thank you,
Lindsay
<Lindsay, do make sure you have removed carbon from the filter. A very common mistake people make is to leave carbon in the filter, and this simply absorbs any medication before it does any good. You don't really need carbon anyway, so you may as well leave it out completely. Do also remember it takes a while to work: the medication *doesn't* kill the visible parasites on the fish, but the next generation parasites they produce once they leave the host. In a coldwater tank this can take a good couple of weeks. Heating the water speeds things up, and you should see results within 3-5 days. If these aren't the issues here, get back in touch. Cheers, Neale.>

My new tank, poor FW mix of lvstk., ich   1/31/08
hi,
Currently I have 55G tank which contains four 2inch gold fish , six 2inch Koi carp , two 4inch Koi carp , six 2inch angels and one 25cm Pleco. I know it's a small tank ,that's why I am building a new 200G tank.
<Very good.>
I am thinking about buying 2 red bellied piranha. Is that a good idea?.
<To mix with these fish? Absolutely not. In addition, most of the common piranhas in the trade, including Pygocentrus nattereri (the Red-bellied Piranha), are essentially solitary fish in aquaria. Their social behaviour in the wild is extremely complex and difficult to replicate in captivity. Juveniles may school together, but adults only form schools under certain conditions, and when mature the males are territorial and ultimately guard nests and eggs. Unless kept in BIG aquaria where there are AT LEAST SIX specimens, piranhas simply don't work in groups. The dominant male systematically harasses and eventually kills the other fish. The flip side to this is that single piranhas are nervous and scared of their own shadows! They are very VERY boring pets.>
Is there any kind of fish that I can add with the piranha's?
<None.>
Right now I have one more problem , one of my Koi carp is scratching ,what should I do .
<Likely Whitespot/Ick and should be treated accordingly.>
Is it necessary to remove live plants before adding any medicine into the system?.
<Not normally, no.>
One of my Koi carp has full red body with small white patches in the middle, is that what u call white spot disease.
<Sounds like it.>
And last I want u to suggest a suitable filter for my new 200G tank (please mention the company name also)
<The ideal filter will vary. If the tank contains just fish and no plants (or maybe floating plants or plants attached to wood) then an undergravel filter can work very well. Use at least two powerheads to get a gravel bed this size working properly. Alternatively, you can use one or more external canister filters. These work better with tanks that contain plants. In either case, the brand of filter doesn't matter much, though some brands, notably Eheim, have a good reputation for reliability and value over the long term. The main thing is turnover. For large fish like yours, you want the powerheads or filter pumps to produce at least 6 times the volume of the tank in turnover per hour. So in your case, the pumps should add up to 6 x 200 = 1200 gallons per hour.>
thanks a lot Mathew
<Cheers, Neale.>

Ich or designs??? FW, reading  – 1/26/08
Hi, I need just one second of your time.
<A bit more than this>
I have a jewel cichlid that is still under 3 inches and it has dots all over his body. I am not sure if this is his design or if it is a disease like ich. Can you please help me out. The spots are all over the body even on the fin. If it is on the fin, does it means it is definitely ich or velvet? Also, is it safe to use medication even if I am not 100 percent sure if it is a disease? Thanks guys.
~Mikey
<... read here: http://wetwebmedia.com/FWSubWebIndex/fwich.htm
and the linked files above. Bob Fenner>

hi? Child? No info., en media res... FW Ich... reading  – 1/26/08
Hello Again
<... where is the prev. corr.?>
I was worried, so I look every where and I found out it might be Ich and was wondering what's the bets way to be sure they got it and to treat them for it. The Water Temp is 24'C and the ph is 7. I would like To Know How much to feed them each day Because This is my first Aquarium And I Have 2 Loaches And 1 Ghost Knife Fish. Thank you Again Chris
<... the loaches and Knife are "special cases" where Ich is concerned. Please read here:
http://wetwebmedia.com/FWSubWebIndex/fwich.htm
and the linked files above, carefully... Bob Fenner>

Devastating Ich outbreak, 2 fish down, please help.  Goldfish 12/28/07
Hello there,
<Ave!>
Please help, we've had a dreadful week.
<Oh?>
On Dec 21st our beloved goldfish (Jasper the black moor, Oscar the comet, and Daphne the Oranda) developed what we believe to be ich. Lots of tiny spots that attract tiny oxygen bubbles, particularly around the gills and under the chin, but also on the body. Dorsal fins went flaccid, and the fish seemed itchy and weak. They continued to feed well, but otherwise a very distressing turnaround for otherwise healthy, happy fish. No obvious reason for the outbreak -water quality good, no new plants, stock or live food in the last 6 weeks, no changes we can think of.
<Hmm... as you realise already, Ick tends to follow on from specific things rather than coming out of the blue. But it may happen.>
We immediately did a water change (around 40%) and started treating with Interpet Anti-Whitespot (formaldehyde and malachite green oxalate). As our tank tends to be a bit on the warm side anyway (the built-in light and filter warm the surface, but the fishies are happy with it), we couldn't really raise the temperature much, but we turned on a second pump for extra aeration (we are in the process of switching from the old one to the new one as the motor is dying so have both in the tank to get the cycling right) but neither of them are carbon or zeolite, so no contraindication for the medication.
<In terms of conditions, all sounds good. I will admit though that I've not found Interpet Anti-Whitespot completely effective in all situations. I prefer to use eSHa EXIT, an alternative product widely sold in the UK and Europe. For whatever reason, it seems to deal with the "super" whitespot strain rather more effectively than Interpet Anti-Whitespot. You may also be dealing with Velvet rather than Ick/Whitespot. Here's the difference: Whitespot cysts look like salt grains, but Velvet cysts are more like icing sugar. Velvet also sometimes has a yellowy or golden sheen rather than plain white and is almost always associated with heavy or rapid breathing. Interpet Anti-Whitespot doesn't treat Velvet, but eSHa EXIT does, which is another reason I prefer it. It is also cheaper!>
In the early hours of December 24th our little black moor died. It was a horrible death, covered in spots (little bubbles you could see clearer with the lights off), and total paralysis as his fins clamped. We were devastated, but it seemed the other two were perking up. We redosed (I think we did a 25% water change at some point during this process to date, which may have been a mistake, but we were responding to the fish looking distressed, and getting so much conflicting advice looking online) and waited. Throughout the day the other two improved, but just before bed I thought I saw more spots on the comet's back. By Christmas morning he was dead.
<Hmm... does sound more like Velvet than Ick. Because Velvet attacks the gills before anything else, by the time you see any cysts on the body, fatal damage may have been done to the gills already. Ick doesn't normally kill fish very quickly, so while it certainly is fatal in the long term, you should have a safe zone of a couple of weeks to spot and treat the disease reliably.>
Daphne, our remaining baby, has been up and down since. On Boxing Day she looked a bit better, yesterday morning she had a massive reinfection, with lots of the tiny spots/bubbles all over her face and gills. We again changed water (50%) and redosed, and by evening the spots were gone, and she looked much better, if slightly puffy and discoloured around the gills and dorsal fin. This morning the puffiness on the gills looked like a large blister, and in the last hour one has filled with blood. She was having trouble swimming against the current of 2 pumps, so turned one off so she can move more easily, but is swimming in circles close to the surface and is not well at all. We're desperate to save her, but don't know what to do.
She's still feeding fine (they've always had a varied diet, peas, frozen daphnia, pellets, flakes, cucumber, p etc), but she's been doing long white stringy poos for a couple of days (seem to have firmed up a bit today actually).
<May be unrelated; her diet sounds excellent.>
We're about to do start doing salt baths -we were going to start this earlier, but what with the chemicals in the water we didn't want to distress her more. We were thinking of doing a 100% water change tomorrow and start again using a different medicine, as this clearly hasn't been effective -what do you think?
<Yes; for now, assume it might be either Velvet or Ick, and use a medication that treats both equally well. eSHa EXIT is one such brand, and there may be others.>
Other than the huge amounts of formaldehyde and malachite in the water, the pH and nitrates have stayed constant, and no nitrate. Not able to test ammonia till tonight as we picked up the wrong kit and the shops have been closed, but with the water changes and everything else being the same I'm not overly worried.
<Medications shouldn't harm to filter, so assuming you're keeping up with water changes, all should be fine there.>
Please help us save Daphne, we really couldn't bear to lose her now. Many
thanks for your time on this, and happy holidays.
Sara and Jonn (London, England)
<Hope this helps, Neale.>

Re: Devastating Ich outbreak, 2 fish down, please help. 12/28/07
Hello Neale, thanks so much for the quick reply.
<No problems.>
Will do some med shopping in the morning. We considered that it might be something other than ick, but that was the closest symptom match, and it looks more white spotty and velvety.... hard to say, but happy to go on to a treatment that will kill both.
<My thoughts exactly.>
She seems to have responded well to the salt bath (30mins at 0.3%) so was thinking of doing that again every 6 hours or so. What do you think? Also, our big concern right now is the big blood blister that accounts for most of her right gill -can't find many accounts of this.
<Hmm... likely a secondary infection. Salt water dips will certainly help. Goldfish have a high salt tolerance and generally respond well to this sort of therapy. Having said that, if the blister doesn't clear up, then do use a general purpose Finrot/fungus medication. Again, I've found the eSHa variety, eSHa 2000, to be cheap and effective against a wide variety of infections.>
Is this a sign of final throws of a infestation, or is this the sort of thing that looks worse than it is (it looks dreadful)?
<When Ick or Velvet cysts "burst", they release free living "spores" that eventually multiply up to form the next generation of parasites. In breaking the skin, this bursting of the cysts can allow secondary infections to develop because the integument between the fish and the water is broken. In this instance, if the blister isn't obviously clearing up, I'd break the habit of a lifetime and use both eSHa 2000 and eSHa EXIT at the same time. According to the manufacturer, they are safe to use together.
http://www.eshalabs.com/exit.htm
Such a combo should fix just about anything.>
Thanks so much for the back-up on this, is so hard to know if we're doing the right thing. xxx
<Treat quickly, and be careful to follow the instructions, and you should be fine. Cheers, Neale.>

Ich not going away:(, FW...  12/25/07
Hello bob, my 4 Neons just got ich and I have read your articles. I raised the temperature to 84 degrees Fahrenheit, I added one teaspoon of salt for every five gallons of water and I am currently using Mardel CopperSafe medication. The ich just isn't going away. I think it is getting a little better, but I want it to be completely gone because it is going to be a gift for my cousin. Am I doing anything wrong? I recently did a 50 percent water change and cleaned the gravel. Also, for the Mardel CopperSafe medication, how often should I use it. It says to treat for one month but I do not know how often I should use it. Please give me some advice. Last, is there anything else I can do to rid the ich? Is Mardel CopperSafe medication good? Thanks so much for your help and your time.
<A few thoughts. Firstly, do make 100% sure you have removed carbon from the filter. Lots of people forget about this. Personally, I consider carbon a waste of space in the average freshwater community tank, but some people still use the stuff. In any case, carbon removes medications from the water, so your fish won't get better. I'd tend not to use salt/temperature in situations where copper-based Ick medications are viable, as is the case with Neon tetras. I'm not familiar with CopperSafe but I have encountered situations where one brand of anti-Ick medication didn't work, but a second brand did. So try switching to an alternate brand. I happen to find the eSHa EXIT anti-Ick medication highly effective and safe with even sensitive species, so if you're in Europe or someplace where eSHa products are sold, that's worth trying. Do also remember you can't do water changes while treating the fish: the concentration of medication must remain constant throughout the course. Cheers, Neale.>

Re: ich not going away:( 12/25/07
Hello again, The Mardel CopperSafe medication says that it treats the water for one month, so am I not suppose to do a water change for one whole month? Please write back. Thanks again.
<No, do regular weekly water changes of 50% as per normal. There's no point treating the whitespot if the fish end up dying from nitrate poisoning or acidosis. Cheers, Neale.>

Ich, FW, Botia macracantha... no reading  12/12/07
Hi, I have a clown loach that recently got ich.
<... this is a social species. Should be kept in a shoal...>
But I am not entirely sure. He has like white air bubbles on his tail and on his fin.
<Mmmm, could you send along a pic?>
Is this ick or not? Also, is there a very accurate and easy way to tell if your fish is healing from ick? Last, how much salt should I use and how often? I have a fifty gallon freshwater tank. Thanks for all your help.
~concerned owner...
Oh, and how do I feed frozen bloodworms to my bottom feeders? Thanks once again
<How is it you managed to skip over our instructions for writing us w/o reviewing what is posted? Please read here: http://www.wetwebmedia.com/FWSubWebIndex/fwich.htm
and here: http://www.wetwebmedia.com/FWSubWebIndex/clnlchfdg.htm
and the linked files above. There is just too much that is necessary, related to your general questions to answer succinctly. What you need to know en toto is posted. Go and read it. Bob Fenner>

I think our tank has Ich! -11/27/2007
Hi Crew-
<Emily>
I think our 75 Gallon Freshwater tank has ich! I think 2 new sail fin tetras which we bought 1 week ago (which we did not quarantine) brought it in.
<Happens... more so during this time of year when temperature changes chill newcomers in transit...>
They both have 2 or 3 little white bubbles on their fins and body. 1 Angel fish also has 1 white bubble on its fin. Is this ich?
<A bubble... have you read much re FW ich? Looks more like salt grains>
I am quite a novice when it comes to fish. I'm still learning. I have several different fish: 5 red eyed tetras, 2 sail fin tetras, 2 angel fish, 1 spotted leaf fish, 1 Pleco, 1 Farlowella twig, 1 Black ghost knife, and 1 temperamental fire eel.
<Quite a mix>
I don't know what to treat the tank with because of our variety of fish.
<You are right to be cautious... likely temperature manipulation alone is the route I would go here>
I read through your articles about ich but I was concerned that some of the treatments might harm the eel or the ghost knife.
<You are correct>
(On top of this our fire eel is still healing from pop eye- what bad luck we've had.) We also have quite the assortment of live plants. Do I really have to remove all of them from the tank to treat the ich?
<IF you are to treat the system with harsh chemicals (metals, dyes) yes>
We also don't have a good QT tank set up. Can we just treat
the 75?
<Might be expedient... just the elevated temp.>
What do you recommend? We just got finished treating a really stubborn case of pop eye too.
<Mmm, very important... What, how did you treat? This alone may be the source of the "bubbles"... NOT ich. Otherwise the treatment may have weakened your stock to such a degree that they will not easily suffer further manipulation>
I am just SOO frustrated with our new hobby. I hope you can help us.
<Take y/our time here... I/we need to know much more re your set-up, history... For now I would nudge up your water temperature... to the low eighties F... this should harm nothing... and may expedite the life cycle, removal of this observed phenomenon's leaving... whether its parasitic or no>
Thanks so much,
Emily
<Welcome. Bob Fenner>

Ammonia test strip question - 11/20/07
Hi Crew,
<Leah,>
I saw one white spot on the tail of one clown loach. Unable to decide if it was ich, I decided to be proactive and treat with Rid-Ich+. The spot was gone within 24 hours, and no other fish developed any other spots, and no one seemed itchy or otherwise uncomfortable. I began to wonder if the original spot had been ich at all, but I intended to treat for a week to be safe. I removed my carbon filter, did a daily 25% water change and used a half dose of Rid-Ich+, although I later read conflicting reports online over whether half doses are effective.
<Depends. Sometimes half-doses work acceptably well, without putting sensitive fish at risk. More often though, the salt plus heat method works better and more safely for treating Ick on Clown loaches, Mormyridae, etc.>
I treated through day 5. Today was supposed to be day 6 of treatment, but I noticed that my Mardel ammonia test strip had gone from plain yellow (0.0 ammonia) to a kind of off-yellow. It's hard to describe, and it does not match any of the other colors on the test strip, which grow from pale green to dark blue-green. It looks for all the world as if the Rid-Ich+ has slightly stained the test strip. Is this likely?
<Certainly possible. If the nitrite level is zero, I'd assume that's the problem here. If the nitrite isn't zero, then perhaps there's something else going on.>
How reliable are these strips, compared to other kinds of tests? After 5 days of half doses of Rid-Ich+, do you think I've harmed my good bacteria?
<No.>
This morning I did a 40% water change with dechlorinated water, and no meds. I also replaced my carbon filter. When I return
home this afternoon, I will put in a new ammonia test strip and see if it stays yellow. (I'm waiting until the afternoon because I don't want any remaining meds to stain the new one.) Do you think I should take any other actions?
<Not really, no.>
I have an ammonia locking agent, and something called stress-zyme that is supposed to help replace good bacteria.
<You shouldn't need either of these things in a stable aquarium. Traces of ammonia in your tap water should be removed by any decent dechlorinator, and the ammonia produced by your fish gets used by the filter bacteria. Bacteria supplements are, in my opinion, more about selling stuff to hobbyists that actually doing anything useful.>
Unfortunately I will be unable to observe the tank again until the
afternoon, but I can check my email and drop by the pet store on the
way home if you recommend buying a different test kit.
Thank you very much,
Leah
<Hope this helps, Neale.>

Black Ghost Knifefish and Ich 10/24/07
<Hi Jillian, Pufferpunk here>
I am at a loss as to how to treat my two BGK fish. They live together in a large tank along with two Raphael catfish and an Oto whom they surprisingly do not bother. Recently I noticed a few small white spot (suspecting ich) on one of the BGK, and am wondering what is the best course of action for treatment. Firstly, should I isolate the infected fish or treat the tank as a whole since all fish have now been exposed?
<I would treat the whole tank with heat & salt.>
Secondly, what it the highest temperature that BKNs will tolerate, as my usual treatment for ich is to up the temperature to 82-84 F and add 2Tbs of salt per 10g of aquarium water?
<MT BGK lives in a discus tank with a normal temperature of 86. Since these are soft water fish, I'd start with 1 tbsp salt/10g.>
This leads me to my third question, is it better to treat the BGK with this salt treatment or to use a product like RidIch at 1/2 strength?
<I wouldn't use meds on scaleless fish. Before starting treatment you should do at least a 50% water change and vacuuming of your tank. I also suggest doing 50% water changes every other day of treatment, (again vacuuming the substrate) to reduce the number of parasites in the water. I do not like to use medication with scaleless fish, except in cases of heavy infestation. Melafix is helpful to treat any damage done to the puffer’s skin from the parasite. If you run into any secondary bacterial problems, Pimafix may also be used. By the 2nd day of treatment, you can raise the salt to1 tablespoon per 5 gallons of aquarium water (remember you already have 1 tbsp/10g in there, so adjust for that), while gradually raising the temperature to 86 degrees F. Continue with this for a period of one month, adding back 1 tablespoon of salt for every 5 gallons of aquarium water that you remove during water changes. One thing to remember with high temperatures is that there is less dissolved oxygen available in warm water than there is in water at cooler temperatures, therefore it is recommended to run an additional airstone to oxygenate the water.>
I am a little attached to these fish and would like to see them make it through this. Thank you in advance for the advise.
<It sounds like you have caught the disease early & your fish should be fine. ~PP>
-Jillian Scharfstein 

Ich elephant nose  10/23/07
I have had my elephant nose Approximately 8 months. He has been happy and healthy. He has developed tiny white spots on his pectoral fins and anal fin that look like ich. Is there any medicine I can treat him with that won't kill him?
Thank You
Karen
<Hello Karen. With Mormyridae, the things to avoid specifically are Formalin and Copper, both of which are widely used in anti-Ick medications. So you need to treat Mormyridae in the same basic way as, say, Clown Loaches (see here: http://www.wetwebmedia.com/FWSubWebIndex/clnlchdis.htm ). Anyway, the basic trick is this: raise the temperature to 30 degrees C (around 86 F). Oxygen level goes down as temperature goes up, so you need to compensate for that. Add additional aeration if you can, but failing that, adjust the water level and/or filter so there is lots of splashing and circulation. Now make up a brine solution in a jug, with about 2-3 grammes of aquarium salt (not marine salt) per litre of water in the aquarium (in other words, a salinity of 2-3 PPT). There's almost exactly 6 grammes of salt per teaspoon, so estimating how much you need should not be too difficult. Stir the salt into the water thoroughly until dissolved, and then slowly add the brine a little at a time into the outflow of the filter so that it quickly disperses around the tank. After a few days the parasites on your fish will mature and die, but the mobile parasite larvae will not be able to re-infect your fish, and the disease will go away. This takes quite a few days, but it does work. Increasing the salt concentration to as much as 6 grammes per litre of water can be used to deal with stubborn infections, but the higher the salinity, the more gently you need to adjust your fish to it, and the higher the degree of osmotic stress placed on the fish. Conversely, once you're done treating the fish, do a series of relatively small water changes over the next few days to gradually bring the salinity down to zero. As ever, do establish why the Ick became a problem. It doesn't come from nowhere, and is either brought in by unquarantined fish or else provoked into action by stress or lapses in water quality. With Mormyridae, prevention is FAR better than cure. Good luck, Neale.>

Ich on my fish – 10/09/07
I have a 56 gal tank all properties are in range except now I have 2 fish with ich. My fish are comprised of a Dinosaur, brown knife, black ghost knife, Bala shark, Albino Rainbow shark, black rainbow shark, 2 snails, a bamboo shrimp, 2 iridescent sharks, a Gourami, 2 rubbermouth Pleco. The Bala and brown knife have ich. I have raised the temp to 83 and would like to use Epsom salt in the tank. what else should I do, I have seen the information on the site and have decided to go with the salt but wish to make sure I am doing things right.
<No idea what sort of fish a "Dinosaur" is. And your mix of fish is, as we say in England, "courageous" (i.e., unlikely to work out). But regardless, Epsom salt isn't the way forward in my opinion. You need marine salt mix (ideally) or at least some sort of non-iodised table salt. You gradually raise the salinity of the tank to 1 gramme of salt per litre of water. DO NOT add salt directly to the aquarium! Take some water out, add the salt, and then slowly dribble in back into the tank. You need to run the tank at 1 PPT salinity for around 7-10 days, and then gradually lower the salinity to zero. There's more here: http://www.wetwebmedia.com/FWSubWebIndex/fwich.htm . Personally, I'd simply use an anti-ick/whitespot medication safe with the species of fish you are keeping. I find 'eSHa Exit' to be very effective and (in my experience) safe with sensitive species such as catfish and puffers. It's a Dutch medication widely sold in Europe. Follow the instructions to the letter, and make absolutely sure there's no carbon in the filter. The shrimp will, of course, need to be removed to another tank until the course of medication is finished and you have done at least two 50% water changes to rinse out the medication. Cheers, Neale>

Tetras with Ich – 09/17/07
Dear crew,
<<Hello, Evan. Tom with you.>>
I have a 10 gallon tank with 4 Glowlight tetras and 3 neon tetras (I had 5 Neons originally but 2 died soon after arriving home from the LFS). That raises a question; one of the dead Neons was completely colorless when I found it. Could the cause of death been NTD?
<<Could be, Evan, but not very likely. Your other Neon Tetras would have almost certainly contracted NTD by now and I can’t guarantee that the Glowlights wouldn’t have been affected, as well.>>
If so: how long before any of my other fish exhibit symptoms? It’s been over 2 weeks and I haven’t noticed the fish acting sick.
<<They’d have shown signs by now, Evan.>>
Sorry for the digression, back to my original question.
<<No problem.>>
My tank has 0 Ammonia, 0 Nitrites and less than 20 ppm Nitrates, temp 84F, pH 7.8.
<<The pH levels are high for the Neons in particular, Evan. Not necessarily a problem but might account for some stress in these fish.>>
10 days ago I noticed the start of ich on a couple of the Glowlights and I started a treatment of Aquarium Pharmaceuticals’ Super Ick Cure (Benzaldehyde Green and Povidone/Colloid mixture). I have been treating at half dose but following Doug Thamm’s recommendations found here:
http://fins.actwin.com/articles/disease/ick2.php. I have the temperature at 84F and have performed 2 full administrations (5 mL initial dose followed by 5mL more 48 hours later, followed by WC after another 48 hours, and repeat) and I am in the middle of the 3rd administration (10th day). I have done 50% WC in between each. The treatment appeared to be working as the Glowlights had lost all of their white spots.
<<Glad to hear this. Nice description of your regimen, by the way.>>
Yesterday evening I noticed one of my Neons with ich spots on its tailfin and body. Is it normal for the ich to re-emerge during treatment?
<<Not necessarily “normal” but certainly possible. Difficult to determine the resistance the parasites may have to the medication particularly at partial dosages.>>
Should I increase the dosage strength to 100% doses?
<<I wouldn’t do this unless the problem looks like it’s getting the better of you and the fish. As I alluded to earlier, your Neons prefer water that’s soft/acidic. Their preferred pH levels top out at about 7.0 which means your water is much higher in pH than they really like. This alone can contribute to diminished resistance to infestations such as Ich. Since medications also lead to stress, the least effective dosage that you can treat at will be far better in the long run.>>
Should I just continue my treatment until no spots are left?
<<Yes.>>
Should I change medication to something like Quick Cure with Malachite Green/Formaldehyde?
<<Not unless the API medication just doesn’t do the job for you. The Malachite Green is highly effective but isn’t without problems of its own. Highly toxic and has been described as a potential carcinogen. Not a treatment protocol to take lightly.>>
Besides the ich, the fish seem healthy, they are active and eat well.
<<Very good signs, Evan.>>
Thank you for your help.
-Evan
<<Happy to be of assistance to you. Good luck to you. Tom>>

FW Ich    9/12/07
I had 2 moonlight Gouramis in a 29 gallon tanks with 3 Dalmatian mollies. The Gouramis started getting tiny white spots on their fins. One developed the white spots on its body. I thought this might be ick so I moved them to a 10 gallon tank to treat with medication. The one with the spots on the body kind of jerks in the corner, the other swims fine but still has spots on the fins. How long should I treat them? Will they be okay in the 10 gallon without gravel and decorations (I have no money to buy extra things right now)?
<Hail. Yep, the white spots are whitespot/ick. It needs to be treated at once. Left alone, it becomes serious and can kill fish quite quickly. You actually treat the tank -- not the fish -- so moving fish with whitespot doesn't serve any purpose except to infect yet another tank. So, you need to treat both the 29 gallon tank and the 10 gallon tank. The medication doesn't kill the white spots you see on the fish, but the free-swimming larval stages in the water. Treat precisely and exactly as described on the bottle/package. Raising the temperature a couple of degrees often helps, too. Do not do water changes while treating the tanks (obviously this will dilute the medication). Remove carbon from the filter (carbon neutralises most medications). Cheers, Neale>

Re: FW ich  9/12/07
Thank you so much for the prompt response. I will definitely be coming to you guys for advice in the future. I have treated the 29 gallon tank and I put the moonlight Gouramis back in it so they will have a less stressful habitat. I used the Wardley, malachite green, ick treatment. I have read on other treatments that they prevent second infections, but the Wardley treatment does not say that. I also read that ick in the water can only be treated at a certain stage and that stage is a few days after the white spots fall off my fish. Will I need to treat the water again after the white spots fall off my Gouramis?
<No, the medication is usually a one time thing. Treat according to the instructions. When the parasites fall off the host, they're dead. They don't re-infect the fish. It's the (invisible to the naked eye) free swimming baby parasites they've been pumping out prior to their death that infects other fish. Sometimes, one series of medication isn't enough. There's something called "Super Whitespot" doing the rounds in the UK. No-one knows if it truly is whitespot or something else entirely. Either way, you need to do a big water change after one course of medication, and then begin a second course. That usually does the trick. This varies depending on the medication used, and some brands kill it off first time. Whitespot isn't difficult to treat, and there's no reason to get paranoid about all your fish dying. Cheers, Neale>

Salt treatment for Ich, FW...    9/2/07
Dear crew,
I have a 10 gallon FW tank with hang on bio-filter and heater. This is really my son's tank that he received as a birthday gift a month ago but as he is 2 I have been designated the caretaker. This is my first foray into fish keeping and I have been reading as much as possible to learn how best to care for the fish.
We have the following fish:
2 Neon Tetras
2 White Skirt Tetras
2 Female Platys
2 recently departed male Swordtails (died within 2 days of each other)
The Tetras have been in the tank for 1 month, I am still in the process of cycling the tank. On Tuesday my in-laws surprised (sabotaged) us with 6 new fish. I believe the 2 swordtails died due to stress/high nitrites.
(Ammonia=0, nitrite=1.0, nitrates=20 before today's water change) I have been doing water changes about twice a week to keep the Ammonia/Nitrites in check during the cycling process. Now to my problem:
It appears that I have an ich outbreak in the tank. I want to treat the Ich with high temperature and salt. I have read differing opinions on salting with tetras so I wasn't sure if a medication would be a better solution.
Also, I have been using Aqueon Water Conditioner to remove Chlorine/Chloramines from my tap water; will this nullify the effectiveness of the salt? I have read that it is necessary to remove the carbon from the filter while medicating, but is it necessary with the salt treatment? One last question, I have only fake plants/decorations in my tank, should I remove these while treating the fish?
Thank you for all of your help.
-Rusty
<Rusty, I would not recommend treating the tank with salt to kill whitespot. While it can work, it doesn't always work, and you are correct in suspecting tetras react badly to it. Neons come from mineral-poor waters and do not like salt in the water. To a lesser extent this also holds true for the white-skirt tetras (Gymnocorymbus ternetzi, notorious fin-nippers and all round nasty fish). Anyway, use a proper anti-whitespot medication of your choice for more reliable, easier to manage treatment. Naturally, you MUST remove carbon before treating the tank with medication. In fact carbon is a complete and utter waste of time in a tank like yours, where you should be doing 50% water changes weekly just to maintain stable water conditions. Given that, the ability of carbon to remove dissolved organic waste is redundant. Far better to give over the space in the filter to more biological media. Carbon is basically a con, used to get money out of inexperienced fishkeepers. It doesn't serve much purpose in the modern hobby, though decades ago it was useful because people kept fish in a different (and inferior) way. You also have the problem of a very small aquarium (totally unsuitable for swordtails and white-skirt tetras, and only marginally acceptable for platies). I'd HIGHLY recommend re-thinking your stocking with a view to getting fish likely to work well in a 10 gallon tank. For some reason you aren't keeping your schooling fish in groups. Two is unacceptable, and they will never settle down and likely die. Neons are fine fish for a 10 gallon tank, but they should be groups of 6 or more. If you wanted, I'd suggest replacing the white-skirt tetras with 6 Glowlight tetras, and together with 4 more Neons, you'd have a nice little group of fish there with eye-catching colours. If you got rid of the platies you could also add a couple or three kuhlii loaches. These are fun bottom dwellers and very pretty little fish to boot. I hope this helps, Neale>

Second bout of Ich in two years   9/2/07
Hello- We're in recovery from our second bout of Ich in the past two years. The first case was sheer ignorance, and I (and the fish, of course) owe WWM's crew a debt of thanks. Your site has the best comprehensive info on so many things we needed to know. For this recent outbreak, after exhaustively searching your site, I have only one unanswered question: Can Ich be introduced to a tank from frozen brine shrimp? Our 25 gal tank has been stable for over 18 months and then just three weeks ago the dreaded Ich appeared again. It wiped out all four of our black tetras before we could catch it, but by using your recommended salt & higher temp treatment the 2 yo-yo loaches, Pleco, 2 angel fish and 2 Danios are now symptom free. I plan on keeping the salt and temps up to complete a three week treatment, but really do not want to re-introduce the brine shrimp until I know what could have caused the recent outbreak. To my knowledge, nothing else went in the tank. FYI, the tank is a typical freshwater tropical tank, with mostly artificial plants but a few live ones. Any ideas where the recent Ich may have come from? Thank you very much, Roseann & Barry.
<Greetings. It is extremely unlikely whitespot came in with frozen or live brine shrimp. Artemia spp. live in hypersaline or temporary lagoons where nothing much other than algae lives. Certainly, there are no fishes there, which is how such primitive crustaceans as Artemia can even survive there (Artemia are not found in regular freshwater habitats or the sea). Anyway, this means that they aren't exposed to fish parasites of any kind, and why they are considered the "perfect" live food in terms of safety. Some aquarists believe whitespot lies dormant in all aquaria, and becomes a problem only where conditions allow (i.e., the fish are stressed in some way). While there's no evidence to support this that I'm aware of, it's certainly possible. Regardless, once you've treated the aquarium, ideally with a proper medication rather than salt, all the dormant whitespot cysts should be killed. So short of adding new fish, you should be whitespot free. Good luck, Neale>

Ich infested tank. – 08/27/07
Hello! I've recently discovered your site, and find it to be a fairly good resource, despite the fact that I've had some trouble getting my questions answered on the forums. People post links that contradict each other, and just all around end up confusing me.
My tank has ich. It's 10 gallons with black tetras, blue Congo tetras, and a Pleco (yes, tank is small for when he starts growing, however, I've already made sure of trade in policies and may even get a bigger tank when the time comes).
I've done a lot of research on ich, I know the basics of the lifecycle, and the common treatments. When I went to the fish store, they suggest heat and aquarium salt (added as per the directions on the box, which is 1 level table spoon per 5 gallons) This is what I've been trying, I've raised the temperature to 86F or so, and added in the salt, adding a little bit more to the new water bucket when I do a water change so that the concentration doesn't change.
I'm reluctant to just jump into medication as I don't want to risk harming my biological filtration and end up stressing the fish a bit more in the long run while my tank re-cycles. What I want to know, is if I'm doing anything right, or if I should do some things different.
The ich just dropped off my fish almost all at once, so I'm hoping that I will be done with it. However, I would love some advice incase this happens again, or incase the outbreak isn't over yet.
Thanks in advance!
Krys.
<hello Krys. Ick (whitespot) can be a problem. Personally, I don't recommend the salt method for treatment. You need quite a high salinity for it to be effective, and high temperature, and together these things can end up stressing the fish more than the medication would. So while it may be useful for some situations (e.g., clown loaches, which are intolerant of copper and formalin medications) for run of the mill community tropicals life is simpler to go use standard ick medications. I've found "eSHa exit" particularly good; it seems to work well against the "super-whitespot" doing the rounds here in the UK, and doesn't seem to harm catfish or puffers, both of which sometimes react badly to standard medications. Properly used, an aquarium treatment shouldn't harm the filter bacteria. This did sometimes happen back in the pre-history of the hobby (i.e., before the 1980s) but nowadays it isn't something to worry about. The main mistake people make is to leave carbon in the aquarium filter. The carbon removes the medication, so the fish stay sick. Anyway, as you realise medications and for that matter salt don't kill the parasites on the fish. Warming the tank is a way to speed up the life cycle so those adult parasites become life expired and fall off the host. Where the medication or salt comes into play is with the free-living larval parasites. Assuming your treatment worked, your fish should not be re-infected with another batch of white spots, i.e., adult parasites. So watch and wait, and see what happens. If they come back, skip the salt, and go use an Ick medication of your choice. Cheers, Neale>

Re: Ich infested tank. 8/28/07
Thank you very much for your reply. I've gone out and bought some Nox-ich. I've read a bit about it, but just have a couple of quick questions before I do a light treatment of my tank (likely a little less than half the regular dose). The instructions on the packaging are minimal, and some website searching is turning up little that's definitive.
I've read that it can leech into almost anything in my tank. I currently have some fake plants, an ornament, lava rock, and driftwood. Should I take any of these out before treating my tank? If so, which? I've heard people recommend taking out ornaments and fake plants so that they don't get stained. I'm just wondering if the medication may leech into the wood or rock and potentially cause problems later. What would you recommend?
If I take these things out, should I cover my tank with something so that the fish have somewhere to "hide"? With the plants gone (and the wood and rock if you recommend it) they won't have anywhere to hide, and I don't want to stress them too much.
<Greetings. I'm not familiar with "Nox Ich". But it's a type of Malachite Green organic dye. So read Bob's page on these, here: http://www.wetwebmedia.com/malachitefaqs.htm . I don't use these types of medication myself -- too much hassle, no real advantage. Hope this helps, Neale>

Ich and the scaleless barb   8/14/07
Dear WWM Crew,
<<Dear Claire. Tom here this afternoon.>>
Congratulations on your fantastic and informative site - it has been an invaluable resource as I set up my first tropical tank.
<<Very glad to hear it, Claire.>>
Unfortunately that tank has now come down with ich (due to an unquarantined new arrival - long story, and I've learned my lesson...) - I saw one or two spots on fins this evening.
<<An Ich infestation is a pain in the backside to have to deal with but it’s a far cry from other problems that might have occurred. Sorry you learned the hard way but all of us have learned something in this hobby the hard way so welcome to our club.>>
I have Nox-ich to treat it with but would like some advice on dosage, due to the presence of a 'mutant' fish. The tank contains 6 female rosy barbs (rescued feeder fish), five tetras and a Bristlenose catfish (gradual stocking still in progress). One of the rosy barbs has no scales.
<<Hello? Haven’t heard of that one, Claire. Interesting…>>
She is in all other respects a perfectly healthy (before the ich) and active fish. I assume the lack of scales means that I should treat the tank at a lower dosage level, but would like your input before I do.
<<Not to send you back to the LFS unnecessarily, Claire, but neither your Tetras nor your Bristlenose Pleco are going to appreciate the Nox-Ich formula which contains sodium chloride (salt) and malachite green as its active ingredients. Even at half-dosages you’d really be putting yourself on “aquarium watch” for signs of stress with your pets. Additionally, as I see below, you have a planted tank. Plants don’t much care for salt, either. I don’t want you wasting time here – nor your money – but Kordon’s Rid-Ich may be the better choice of medications given the circumstances. It’s a combination of malachite green and formalin but, in combination, at lesser concentrations than would be found with other medications using one, or the other, exclusively or nearly so. In combination with each other, these are very effective even when “dosing down” (one-half the prescribed) because of scaleless fish.>>
Tank stats:
150 litres, live plants
pH 7.4
ammonia and nitrites nil
nitrates 5
Thanks!
Claire.
<<Tank stats look quite good, Claire. Be sure to read the directions of any medication carefully and followed them to the letter. Best of luck. Tom>>

Platies with Ich – 07/30/07
<Hi Mary, Twothless here.>
> We have 5 small platy in our 10 gal BiOrb along with one small golden mystery snail.
<Kind of cramped in there, but not too bad.>
> I check that water quality regularly and all seems fine.
<Could you define "Fine" for me? Actual test result numbers? When an aquarists says the levels were fine, it means that there is 0ppm ammonia, 0ppm nitrItes and nitrAtes below 40ppm. ANYTHING higher than these levels is considered detrimental to the health of your fish, and snail. Immediate action must then be effected to fix the problem before any health issues arise.>
> We are experiencing an outbreak of (I assume) ick as I see white salt like specs on the tails. Often this is hard to see as they seem to be clamping their fins and tail closed.
<Sounds like Ich to me. You can treat Ich on Platies with aquarium salt as per these instructions: Add 3/4 level teaspoon aquarium salt per gallon on day one. Add 3/4 level teaspoon per gallon on day two. Add 3/4 level teaspoon per gallon on day 3 and begin raising the heat (IF you have a heater. It's not absolutely required though) to the high 80's. Salt cannot evaporate nor can it be filtered out, so, you should monitor your additions closely so that you do not add too much or too little. So, if you remove 5 gallons during a water change, only add 2 1/2 level teaspoons PER gallon of water that is added back. Maintain this salinity for at least 5-7 days after the last time you saw ANY Ich spots whatsoever. Usually two weeks is enough time. After the treatment has run it's course, you can begin reducing the heat and aquarium salinity by performing water changes without salt and turning the heater down. Once the ich is gone, they're gone fore good and will not return unless you re-infect them with new plants or ANYTHING from an infected tank. Oh, and be sure to remove any "white rocks" that might be in the filter cartridges or filter media. This is called Zeolite and will dump its payload of ammonia if allowed to sit in salt water. If you don't see any, your golden!>
> They are still eating well.
<That's a good sign.>
> I have a BiOrb "first aid cartridge" which includes a filter and meds but it does not say what the meds actually are and I don't want to kill my son's precious snail. What do I do?
<Easy, remove the snail and keep it in another container until you finish the treatment I recommend. Add a little gravel from the aquarium to the bottom of the bowl and perform a large or total water change with temperature matched dechlorinated water every day.
> (thank you)
<You're very welcome. Good luck with the Platies and the Mystery Snail (Is it's name Gary?) -Twothless>

Help! White Spot and I go away on holiday in 2 days  7/29/07
Hi,
<< Lesley from Scotland here>> Was setting up a new tank last time we spoke about 3 months ago;
<Hi Leslie, Paul here>
Please could you help. I have 3 Botia or Clown loaches 2 of whom appear to have white spot they are however very lively, I am due to go on holiday on Mon 30th July for 2 weeks. I have raised the water temp from 82 to 85 Degrees can I take it any higher? There are 2 Angels, 1 male Kribensis and 3 Golden Gouramis also in the 220ltre tank, none of which appear to be affected.
I know you have to remove the carbon when giving treatments, the instructions on the treatments bottle (Interpet White Spot plus) also say to remove the ammonia remover and then return after 7 days. I wont be here. I have a relative who can feed the fish and re dose the treatment but not deal with the filter, its an external one and just been cleaned before I go away so I really don't want it touched in my absence.
Will it be alright to remove the ammonia remover before I go away or can I treat the tank with it in? Or should I add some aquarium salt along with the increased water temp till I get back and ask my relative to lower the temp after 10 days. I don't want to jeopardize the health of the fish and do nothing till I return.
<In my opinion, "ammonia removing" substrates aren't needed in a well tended closed system. If ample surface area and correct flow rate are provided then the beneficial bacteria colonies on the biomedia do a perfectly fine job of oxidizing ammonia into nitrItes and so on. So, if your filtration unit/s are large enough to handle a 220 liter tank with your particular bioload/stocking density, then it would be perfectly fine for you to remove the ammonia remover (probably Zeolite) from the filter before you leave.>
Your help is much appreciated
Lesley
<I DO hope this reply gets to you in time. Good luck with your fish and have a safe trip! -Paul>

Ich, frogs, snails and shrimp question - 7/23/07
Hello!
I have searched all over for an answer to this question and I can't find one. So, I'm going to email this and hope someone answers it! We have one goldfish, one platy, one ghost shrimp, one snail and one (tiny) African Dwarf frog. The gold fish looks like it has a case of Ich... small white dots/bumps on it's fin. We took him out of the aquarium, and I want to treat it, however, I'm not sure if we should treat the tank with the frog, snail and shrimp in it? Should we take them out? Do they need to be treated? Help! Please?
Thank you!
Deanna
<Hello Deanna. Snails are usually resistant to medications, but shrimps are not, and often frogs aren't either, so good save there. You will need to treat the whole aquarium for whitespot rather than just one fish. Actually, to be precise, the anti-Ick medications cannot kill the parasites on the fish which is why removing them to a quarantine tank is pointless. All they kill are the free-swimming parasites before they attack the fish, and even if you cure the fish in the quarantine tank, the next generation of parasites will still be in the aquarium waiting to re-infect your fish! That's why you need to treat the tank, not the fish, so you can break the life cycle of the Ick parasites. Every few days they flip from being on the fish to being free swimming as one generation dies and another is born. Or something like that, anyway! So, remove the shrimp and perhaps the frog too. Treat the tank. After a week, change 50% of the water, and install carbon in the filter. (I assume you know you MUST always remove carbon before treating an aquarium, because carbon removes medication just as it removes any other organic material.) After 24 hours do another 50% water change, and then return the shrimp and frog. The levels of copper, formalin, or whatever else are in the medication will now be too low to harm the shrimp or frog. Hope this helps, Neale>

Itch related question  7/13/07
Hi there,
<Hi Hanson, Jorie here tonight>
A day ago, I changed water for my "itch" tank...
<I presume you mean ich, or Ichthyophthirius multifilius?>
...by using pump/drain hose, and yesterday I accidentally used those pump/ drain hose for water change of my "clean, good" tank.
<Happens to the best of us - simple mistakes that we kick ourselves for later:-)>
Is it possible/potential for my "clean" tank get infested?
<Unfortunately, it's possible, so long as there was infested water from the ich tank on one or more of these parts...>
If yes, how can I do prophylaxis for my "clean" tank?
<Well, once ich is introduced to a tank it is virtually impossible to get rid of it, short of starting from scratch. Even then, there's a school of thought that ich is always present at some level in all tanks, but so long as the environmental conditions are good and the livestock healthy, the tank "residents" should have sufficient immune systems to remain healthy and unaffected. Additional water changes will be the best "medicine" for your tank right now. Also, if you've got a UV sterilizer, you may want to run it, but I certainly wouldn't advise running out and buying one.
Do take a look at Bob Fenner's article here: http://www.wetwebmedia.com/FWSubWebIndex/fwich.htm >
Please let me know.
<Hope I have!>
Thanks in advance.
<You are welcome.>
Hanson
<Jorie>

No New Fish. So, where did the Ick come from?    6/24/07
Hello,
<<Hi, Neil. Tom here.>>
I've just discovered your website and am thoroughly impressed. It appears to be the one-stop-shopping site for all, or most, of my aquarium related research!
<<I thank you for all of us, Neil.>>
My question is this - In my planted discus tank, I have absolutely not added anything in this tank for over a month. It's a fairly new setup (46 Bowfront running since 4/21/2007). The plants and fish are thriving. I have 5 discus, all of which will eat right out of my hand. The tank also houses 4 Red Serpae Tetras (cycled the tank), 3 Corys, 3 Otos and a Clown Loach (snail control). The discus were the last fish added. The plants were present from day 1.
<<All sounds nice, Neil, though I’m, admittedly, a fan of “fishless cycling”.>>
Last night, I noticed about a dozen cysts on one of my Discus. His behavior hasn't changed, he's not flashing or scratching, still has a good appetite. I'm baffled as to where the ick came from. I'm not a believer in the "there is always ick present in the aquarium, just waiting for a viable host" theory.
<<Sounds like your fish is far more tolerant than most, Neil. As for the “theory” you mention, you’re quite right in not believing it. Ick is not “ever-present”. It must be introduced via fish, plant life or even “transport” water. Quarantine, quarantine, quarantine!>>
Would any of you have any possible suggestions as to how this could have happened? I don't feed any live foods whatsoever. Just freeze dried Bloodworms, Brine shrimp Tubifex and Flakes. All Hikari. Also, frozen Bloodworms, Brine shrimp and Mysis. Also Hikari. Other than that, I'm baffled!
<<While it seems, at first, to fly in the face of logic, Neil, realize that it only takes one parasite to start the ball rolling. One lousy, little single-cell parasite. In colder conditions such as those you might find in a pond setting or Goldfish tank, for instance, the life-cycle of this parasite can take weeks rather than days. Additionally, let’s consider that a weak strain of Ick – there are more than one – might not reproduce enough “strong” tomites (juveniles) to make an infestation immediately obvious. It’s only in the mature trophont, or “feeding” stage, that the parasite is visible to the naked eye and, even then, it presupposes that the parasite has infested the animal(s) where it can be seen, i.e. on the body as opposed to the gills where it might not be readily “caught” by the aquarist. Now, add in that a large, heavily-planted tank may make it somewhat difficult to observe each and every fish closely on a daily basis and something can “slip through”. Sure, the possibility that I’m offering is hypothetical in its nature but it’s based on the fact that, somewhere along the line, the little “baddies” were introduced into the tank and, more plausibly, probably with your Discus if only because they were the last added.>>
Thank you!
Neil D'Ambrosio
Jackson, NJ
<<Whatever treatment you undertake, Neil, remember not to cut it short. Continue treatment for three days after all signs of Ick are gone. You don’t want to go through this twice. Best of luck to you. Tom>>

Re: No New Fish. So, where did the Ick come from? (update)   8/5/07
This message is for Tom as a follow-up to our exchange about 1 month ago:
Hi Tom,
Neil from Jackson NJ again. Thought I'd provide some updates to our previous exchange.
<<Hi, Neil. Good to hear back from you.>>
I'll start with the Red Mellon discus with the long, white stringy feces and no appetite. As you may recall, I was treating him/her in my QT with Fish Zole (Metronidazole) and was 2/3 through the treatment.
<<I do recall, Neil.>>
Well, that was my 1st experience with that medication and I must say it worked as advertised.
<<Satisfying when something works as advertised, isn’t it? :) >>
The Red Mellon is a little eating machine now. Always coming to the top of the tank whenever I enter the room. His appetite has improved 100% and he actually looks like he's grown some. Interestingly enough, the first food I was able to get him to eat was Hikari freeze-dried Tubifex. I soak 1 cube in warm water and keep tapping at it with an eye dropper until it completely falls apart into individual "strings". I know there are many articles warning against the use of Tubifex. However, I'm a big fan of Hikari products - both frozen and freeze dried. I then just squirt some of the worms into the water column and most of my fish go wild on this. I feed the same way with Hikari frozen blood worms.
<<Part (most?) of the warnings against Tubifex, as you know, really stems from where these little critters are cultivated, or at least where they’ve been cultivated in the past, and what they can potentially harbor. Hikari irradiates the worms, in freeze-dried form anyway, to eliminate the concerns of contaminating the tank, however, so that’s certainly good news. (These worms must really be "yummy" since I've yet to hear about a fish that didn't like them.)>>
The ParaGuard treatment worked very well in my show tank as well. You may recall I was treating another discus in my show tank for what appeared to be Ick. This product worked well, with no apparent harm to my live plants nor my Clown Loach, Corys or Red Serpaes. The Ick went away after about 7 days of treatment and has not reappeared since.
<<Can’t ask for more than that, Neil.>>
About 1 week ago, another of my discus in my show tank appeared with a
long stringy feces the color and consistency of aquarium sealant! This was one of the toughest, more dominant of my discus. When he refused food, I knew he was sick. I raised the temperature gradually to around 87 degrees and this time used Seachem Metronidazole. I tried this brand since it comes in a fine powder instead of pill form (Fish Zole).
<<Okay.>>
I used the same regiment - 250mg/10 gallons every other day for 3 days with a ~35% water change in between treatments. He began to look a bit better after about 3 days but was still not eating. I tried all kinds of food but he would just chase after it, take it in, then spit it out. Finally, I tried frozen Daphnia and that did the trick. He's been inhaling it every day since. He's now taking flakes and some freeze dried Tubifex as I described above. I haven’t seen the "Aquarium Sealant" feces in 2 days so far. He's back to his old self chasing other Discus around during feeding time!
<<You’re getting very good at this, Neil. I’m happy to hear about the fine results you’ve been having.>>
I feel a great sense of accomplishment since I've only been keeping Discus since May of this year. I've learned so much by reading many books, magazine articles and from internet sites such as this one. I appreciate that a real person takes the time to reply to my messages - and in a timely manner!
<<We give it our best shots when it comes to answering in a timely fashion, Neil. Every one of us realizes how frustrating and discouraging it can be to have a sick pet, or a “sick” tank, and not get the information we need to do something about it quickly. Sometimes, the solution itself can be time consuming so we try to get back to our readers/writers as fast as we can.>>
I do have some really interesting things to share and was wondering if there was some way for me to submit articles on this website?
<Oh yes. RMF>
As a newbie to Discus, I would like to focus my attention on other newbies who I'm sure are experiencing the same stress and anxiety that I have. I have also discovered some helpful hints on filter media and maintenance that may help some fellow hobbyists save some money without sacrificing water quality or the health of their livestock.
<<Direct your correspondence regarding this to Bob Fenner. Bob’s always open to well-written, informative and pertinent material. Might be that you’ve got something he’d be interested in helping you develop for print.>>
Well, I think I've written much too much this time. However, I hope this information can help others who are stressing over which medication to use and when to use it - much in the same way that I did!
<<First-hand information is always valuable to us/others, Neil. Your experiences might shed some light where other sources have failed. I encourage you share what you have with Bob and be guided accordingly.>>
Thanks again for listening!
Neil D'Ambrosio
Jackson, NJ
<<It’s an easy “listen”, Neil. Thanks for writing back and sharing your successes with me and the rest of our readers. My best to you. Tom>>

Re: No New Fish. So, where did the Ick come from?  - 6/25/07
Thanks for your quick response!
<<Happy to do so, Neil.>>
Back in the mid 80's when I was keeping salt water fish, the S.O.P for cycling was a product called Fritzyme. This was used in conjunction with another product (forget who produced it) containing Ammonium Chloride. This was how we cycled tanks.
<<I confess that I’ve never kept saltwater tanks, Neil, but since the push to cycle without using live critters, particularly on the FW side of the hobby, didn’t gain much impetus until about the mid-90’s, I’m impressed that you were doing such 10 years earlier. Glad to hear this.>>
I used Cycle (excellent! product, by the way) this time but could not find a good source of pure ammonia.
<<Hardware stores used to be a good source for pure ammonia but I fear, in this context, too many of them have gone “upscale” on us to simply walk in and find what isn’t stocked in a supermarket. Takes more hunting than we, among others, lead folks to believe.>>
I was told to put a shrimp in the tank, fish food etc... Since I wasn't too keen on that method, I used the Red Serpaes, lots of water changes and frequent monitoring of water parameters. Even though the Serpaes were only $1 each, I take losing ANY fish very hard!
<<They had an advantage that a lot of fish that are used for cycling tanks didn’t. You. I still don’t recommend it for beginners but I’m glad all worked out.>>
They are still in my show tank with my Discus, plants, Corys, etc... Much larger than when I bought them and cherry red coloration.
<<Have four of these fish in my big tank and they do add great color to the community. (I’m glad the little buggers finally settled out of their incessant fin-nipping, however.)>>
I'm currently treating my show tank with ParaGuard and gradually moved the temp up to ~86. So far, all seems well. I chose this product since it seems to be the safest product I could find. I've been watching my Clown Loach very closely since I believe he would show the 1st sign of stress. If you have a better or more preferred method, please drop me a line. I'm new to Discus and Live plants, so any advice that you can give me would be greatly appreciated.
<<Keep an eye on the Corys as well, Neil. Your Discus will handle the elevated temperature better than the Corys will. You’ve already got the Loach covered and, I must say, I’m surprised the Discus showed up with this before the Loach did. These fish tend to be the FW counterparts of the SW Blue Tangs where the term “Ick magnet” is used. I’d be interested in how the Seachem ParaGuard works for you. Products such as Kordon’s “Rid-Ich” and Mardel’s “Maracide” use malachite green and formalin together, which has proven very effective against Ick. (Just a little “back-burner” info if the Seachem product doesn’t do the job.) You already know the drill on removing any activated carbon from the filter – if it’s used – and increasing aeration to compensate for lower oxygen levels at elevated temps. For our other readers, this can typically, and cheaply, be done by lowering the water level so that there’s more “splashing” at the surface from the filter return which, in turn, increases the oxygen exchange.>>
In closing, is there any way to be more in tune with the day to day goings on with your website (membership, etc ...)?
<<Neil, one way to stay on top of things is to join our discussion forums. Highly addictive and highly educational. You’ll find yourself sharing, and learning, as much, or more, from the discussion boards available – there are quite a few – than you might think possible. (A college professor of mine once told me that in order to learn, copy the teacher. In order to understand, teach.) In other words, you’ll find yourself rutting around in areas of the hobby that you’ve never been before and, most likely, coming away with information that might just leave you a little dumbfounded, i.e. truth versus utter garbage.>>
I've read a couple of articles written by Alesia Benedict on Discus and Planted aquariums. She is a fantastic writer, as well as being very knowledgeable about the subject matter she writes about. I found her article about starting off with a 90 gallon planted discus aquarium very close to what I did. I also agree that there are too many outdated books on discus out there.
<<Ms. Benedict has written some wonderful stuff, to be sure. As for the outdated books, we need to be fair here, Neil. Our technology is evolving so rapidly, farm-breeding included, that it’s difficult to put, in hard print, a definitive volume on nearly anything. On the flip side, you must question whether new technology, for its own sake, is an improvement or merely “new technology” for something already “tried and true”.>>
More current information is desperately needed, especially that most discus available to the hobbyist today are tank raised and have never been to South America.
<<You’re singing my song. I’ve a half dozen Albino Corys, gleefully swimming around in my community tank, that don’t exist…for long…in a natural habitat.>>
Never even seen a Cory or a Pleco until they find themselves in some hobbyists aquarium!
<<Neither are “aberrations”, Neil. Both are part of our “natural world”. In fact, one of the bigger issues that comes about here at our WWM site, in the FW department, is when someone says that he/she has a Pleco. I’ve got a Sailfin Pleco that grows to about 16”-17” in one tank and an Angelicus Pleco that stays at about 5”-6” in another.
I’ve also seen a Common Pleco at my LFS that grew to a size that made me say, “Whoa!”. Many varieties running around “loose”, so to speak, and they’re not farm-bred, by any means.>>
Please pass along my compliments to Alesia and urge her to keep writing!<RMF will do so>
<<I’ll pass this along to Bob. Alesia has written articles for the “Conscientious Aquarist” (Bob’s mag <Mmm, ours>) as a free-lance writer, not part of the WWM crew.>>
Thanks again for the awesome website. Please keep it going. Newbies like me are depending on you!
<<Count on it, Neil! And thanks for kind words and support.>>
Regards,
Neil D'ambrosio
Jackson, NJ
<<Tom. Macomb, MI.>>

Re: No New Fish. So, where did the Ick come from? (update)   7/4/07
Hi Tom,
<<Happy 4th of July, Neil!>>
Got a little busy and am behind on my e-mails.
<<Understood.>>
Just thought I'd give you an update on the Ick situation and my method of treatment. As you may recall (see below), only 1 of my discus (for that matter the only fish in the tank) had what appeared to be Ick. I raised the temp to 86 and added 20 ml (4 capfuls) of ParaGuard every day for seven days. Directions call for 5ml per gallon. I estimated my 46 bow front actually contains ~40 gallons taking into account driftwood, substrate, stones etc ... I maintained my normal water change schedule, redosing after the water change. I don't see any signs of ick on that 1 fish or any others. All plants appear to be in very good shape, Corys, clown loach, red Serpaes all eating like little pigs with seemingly no effect whatsoever. I'll keep watching to make sure it's gone for good this time.
<<All sounds good to me, Neil.>>
Strange only one fish was affected. And as I began our dialog, still
wondering how ick could have appeared after not adding fish for ~4 to 6
weeks. It makes me wonder if it could have been something else other than ick. I saw a dozen or so "salt" like particles on the fish. Never saw the fish breathing heavily except after feeding, just like the other 4 discus tank mates. I believe I only saw the fish rub up against anything once, maybe twice. At a temp of 86 degrees, I would have thought I should have seen the cysts fall off of the fish within a few days as part of the ick cycle. But they seemed to just stay on the fish for almost the whole time. That is why I'm still wondering if it could have been something else. Not sure what else it could have been, though. Any thoughts?
<<In a FW tank, Neil, the one that immediately comes to my mind is Velvet (Oodinium pillularis). In the early stages, this is rather easily mistaken for Ick, smaller spots but of like-appearance. The “kicker” here is that this parasite can exist in a tank for quite some time in non-parasitic form, which might explain the apparent inconsistency with the original problem being Ick. The body of this dinoflagellate contains chlorophyll which it uses to photosynthesize food. No big rush/need to find a “host” it seems.>>
I'm currently treating 2 new discus in my 20 gallon QT. After I purchased the fish from a LFS, who acquires his discus from a well-known breeder in Washington State, I noticed the Red Mellon had long, stringy (not quite white but more of a tan color) feces. He didn't seem to have an appetite or much of an interest in food. So, I began adding a product called Fish Zole to the tank. Fish Zole comes in tablet form, each tablet containing 250mg of Metronidazole. I've done a lot of reading and have come to the conclusion that this is the medication I should be using, based on my observations of the fish.
<<We frequently recommend this medication when it’s deemed appropriate and your description seems, at face value, to fit the bill. Evidence seems to bear out that Metronidazole is most effective taken internally with food but this isn’t always possible with sick fish that don’t have an appetite. You don’t want to use it continuously or repeatedly, however, because it is toxic to fish, more particularly with extended use.>>
It seems to want to eat, but just picks at micro algae on driftwood and occasionally on some pelleted food.
<<See what I mean about appetite?>>
The other fish is a larger White Diamond discus. Absolutely beautiful fish. This fish does not appear to be sick. However, it is extremely skittish. Hides a lot but will dash out for food, then goes back to his "safety zone" behind a plastic plant. I've watched this tank from a distance and both fish appear to do what normal discus do - they kinda rub up against each other, a little head butting, grazing around on driftwood and gravel. I only have them about 9 days as of this writing, so they may be ok with time. I'll let you know how the Fish Zole works. I do have 6 small Corys, a little Pleco and 4 red Serpaes in the tank as well. The meds don't seem to be having any adverse effect on these little guys. Some of them are going into the big tank once I believe all are healthy. The Red Mellon seems to be a lot more active now 2/3 of the way through the treatment. I'll let you know if the Fish Zole product was effective.
<<I’d appreciate that, Neil. Manufacturer’s can claim what they like but the proof comes with actual hands-on use.>>
I'd appreciate any comments and/or suggestions you may have on the above. Also, if you know of some good sources of Discus information - Books, Magazines, Websites, other hobbyists or members of the WWM crew that I can communicate with, I'd greatly appreciate it if you would provide that information to me.
<<Neil, if you haven’t done so already, start here: http://www.wetwebmedia.com/FWSubWebIndex/discusfish.htm. There are a great many sources listed at the end of this article that should keep you going for some time.>>
Thanks Tom! Looking forward to hearing from you once again!
Regards,
Neil D'Ambrosio
Jackson, NJ
<<Happy to be of assistance once more, Neil. Keep up the good work and continued success to you. Tom>>

Ick treatment & a Baby Whale  6/23/07
Hello, Thank you kindly for your prognosis on the Dwarf Gourami. I'll keep them isolated and cross my fingers.... and not re-stock with Dwarf Gouramis. Another question: Today I noticed that one of the rainbow fish (Red Rainbow female) has 2 tiny white spots... sweet mother of science, I fear ick. She's a relatively new introduction to the tank (4 days) but was quarantined for 8 days prior to being introduced. If ick, I've previously had success with Mardel's Maracide Concentrate... but what about the Baby Whale who lives in the tank (I've had him for about 8 months now... a healthy happy 4 inch Mormyridae) can he withstand an ick treatment like Maracide. Many thanks, Michelle
<Happy to help. It's a shame that Dwarf Gourami Disease is so common. Anyway, as for the Ick in your aquarium, be extremely careful when treating the tank. I am not personally familiar with this medication, but I'm a bit concerned that its web page says it "may be harmful to amphibians and some snails". Anyway, before using it, check that the carton said it was safe with invertebrates and stingrays. Anything safe with those should be safe with Mormyrids; if it doesn't say it is safe for those, then assume it is not. If your retailer doesn't know, then checking the web site (or telephoning) the manufacturer can help. The safest thing is move the Mormyrid to a quarantine tank, treat the main tank, use carbon and water changes to remove leftover medication, and then return the Mormyrid. With luck, your Mormyrid will not be infected. Since you've had the baby whale 8 months, he's obviously settled in and feeding -- so I wouldn't take any chances risking such a lovely animal. Cheers, Neale>

Plecos, hold the salt please – 5/30/07
Hello,
<<Hello, Julie. Tom with you.>>
I have a question about adding salt to my freshwater tank. I have a 55 gallon tank. Currently, it contains black mollies, gold balloon belly mollies, zebra Danios and one 12 inch Pleco.
<<Hmmm…okay. Mollies are typically categorized as “brackish” water fish, Julie. Your Pleco has little, if any, tolerance for salt. Not ideal but let’s see what we can do.>>
My problem - the black mollies have ich and I am having trouble getting rid of it. I read that my tank needs salt and this will aid in getting rid of and keeping the ich out of my tank.
<<Salt is one of the “safest” ways to go, Julie, but not the only one. In this case, a “treatment” level of salt for Ick will do your Pleco no good whatsoever. We need to look for an alternate course of action.>>
I also read that my Pleco will not do well with too much salt in the water.
<<True.>>
Is there a certain amount of salt that I could add to my tank that might help my mollies but not hurt my Pleco?
<<In this case, Julie, there isn’t. Plecos can “tolerate” no more than a dosage of one tablespoon of salt per five gallons of water and even that is “iffy”. You’d likely need to up this to around two-three tablespoons per five gallons to effectively do battle with this parasite. Not an option, I’m afraid. You should consider Maracide here. Not quite as effective as other forms of treatment but “scaleless” fish seem to do quite well with this treatment. ‘Quick Cure’ is a formulation of formalin and malachite green which is very effective, particularly when combined like this but, it does have “safety” drawbacks as it’s toxic to fish and plants if dosing isn’t done properly or, if treated for a prolonged period. Treatments with this product can be very successful when half-dosed in 12-hour intervals, however. I’d go with the Maracide here, though. If this were a more serious outbreak, I’d direct you to go with the Quick Cure but I’d rather that you feel comfortable with this rather than put you on the spot. Also, remember to increase the temperature of the tank to 82-86 degrees F. over a period of several hours to speed up the life cycle of the Ick.>>
Thanks,
Julie
<<You’re welcome, Julie. Best of luck. Tom>>

Re: Icky Ich and honey Gourami prob.s (to Jeni please!). Treating Ich & a "Fat" Fish  5/10/07
Hi Jeni, It's Anna here again. Hopefully you remember my situation, my boyfriend put 2 Firemouth cichlids in my community tank.
<How could I forget!>
Well, as it turns out, their aggressive ways are the least of my problems. I have just noticed the dreaded white spots on around 3/4 of my fish (probably due to the unquarantined cichlids!!)
<Yup, what did I say?  I hope he feels really bad...  That'll teach him.>
It is very mild at the  moment and I'm thankful that I spend at least an hour every day CLOSELY examining every fish for problems.
<That's great--and relaxing too.>
It seems I have caught it before it has become a killer.
I immediately changed 50% of the water, cranked the temp up a couple of degrees, with the intention of bringing it to a peak of 87*F over the course of the day, and then added 12 tbsps of sea salt that is free of anti-caking agents and iodine, diluted in some aquarium water and added gradually over 5 hrs. I do have Corys, and I know they do not tolerate salt well but they
seem to be doing better than any of the others. I also added some Stress Coat to relieve the poor little things a bit. I will be changing 20% of the water every day and carefully monitoring the salt levels.  Do you think I am doing the right thing?
<Bump that up to 80% every other day & be sure to clean the gravel well as you are doing it, to remove the free-swimming parasites.  Don't forget to replace the salt you remove.>
I have read many horror stories regarding meds and would like to try the natural option first.
<Me too.>
I am really hoping the combination of salt and heat will kill the nasty little critters (Ich).
<It should.  Watch for fish struggling to breathe & add an airstone if necessary.>
I have also just ordered a 9w (all I can afford) UV sterilizer
http://www.fishlore.com/uv_sterilizer.htm   (by Fish R Fun) from EBay, that will be delivered within the next couple of days. I have heard great things about them being used to combat Ich. It may be too late now but hopefully it will help prevent further outbreaks. Do you have any personal experience of using them?
<Sorry, I don't.>
I can't seem to find many people who have.  All the fish seem to be tolerating the salt so far but it's early days.
Upon checking up on them a couple of hours ago, I saw one of the Firemouths with something hanging from its lips. Upon closer inspection, it turned out to be the tail of one of my beloved WG Neons (ARGH!!!). The other is now searching everywhere for its best mate and seems at a loss. Poor little critter, they were constantly side by side and sooo cute together.
<Awww... so sad.  I hope the boyfriend really feels bad!>
As you advised, I will be returning them to the store today (as soon as I can catch them with the net, as I'm sure you know, almost impossible!)  
<Try luring them out with food.>
Anyway, there is one last problem that's getting me quite worried. My female honey Gourami has been getting fatter for about the past month. She seems happy and has no prob.s with mobility. I am HOPING (as she's my fave fish) that this is due to her being laden with eggs and the male not having anywhere to build a bubble nest. Could that happen? Do they get fat with eggs?
<Possibly>
If not, I'm guessing she may have internal parasites or worse, the onset of dropsy. Should I wait or treat with parasite medicine?
<Parasite meds need to be fed to the fish, by soaking their food in it.  It can't hurt to treat everyone.  Generally though, internal parasites leave fish skinny.  Also, they have white, stringy poop.>
Anyway... Once again, sorry for the length! Thanks for your help last time and thanks in advance for any help with this!
<I hope they get better soon & you don't loose any more fish due to your boyfriend's "gifts".  ~PP>
Anna

Mistreating for Ich   4/27/07
I had a lionhead, a goldfish, a dragon and a shrimp.  This morning we woke up and the lionhead was dead.
<What's a dragon? Obviously not the big fire-breathing reptile...>
I noticed the goldfish was acting wild, swimming fast and bumping into the walls, then I noticed pimples on it's "cheeks".
<Very odd. How big is the tank? What's the water quality? For goldfish, the aquarium should be 30-40 gallons upwards, and with ample filtration. White spots on goldfish can be a variety of things. Yes, there are normal breeding "pimples" on sexually mature males. But there are also things like Fish Pox that cause superficially similar conditions.>
I've had fish die from ich in the past, so with the lionhead showing up dead then seeing the spots on the goldfish, I put an ich treatment in the tank.
<Good. No fish should ever die from whitespot, it is so easy to cure. But treating early is important.>
Well, now I think the pimples are the breeding spots.  So I just want to know what will happen if I treat the tank for ich but it isn't there?
<It'll be fine. But when the course of medication is done (be sure and complete the course, don't stop halfway) do a nice big water change, 50% or more.>
Thanks!
<Cheers, Neale>

Re: Mistreating for Ich   4/27/07
Thanks for your fast response, Neale.
<Greetings!>
All is well in the tank this morning, but I'll certainly do as you suggested.
<Good and good.>
Oh, and here's the link to a good photo of a dragon, aka violet goby (I didn't know that or I'd have said it in the first email).
<Aha! Gobioides sp. You are aware that this is a brackish water, substrate-sifting and filter-feeding animal that gets to about 50 cm/18" long? Too many of these fish are kept in freshwater, where they eventually sicken and die. Diet is a key thing with this fish, too. It eats tiny animals (worms/crustaceans) plus plankton as well as algae. Algae wafers of the type sold for catfish are appreciated and perhaps critical for good health. Contrary to myth (and appearance) they only eat feeder fish when on the point of starvation. The huge mouth is for straining water/mud, and the teeth for scraping algae from rocks.>
Thanks again for your expertise!
<No probs. Good luck! Neale>

Ick treatment for 100 gallon freshwater tank, plus cycling tips  <Jorie's go> 4/25/07 
Hi,
<Hello>
I have a relatively new 100 gallon tank setup (about 6 weeks).
<Did you cycle it? If not, please read here: http://www.wetwebmedia.com/FWSubWebIndex/fwestcycling.htm >
Up to this weekend, we had 10 very small fish living peacefully in it.
<Hopefully not all added at once - again, please refer to the cycling article.>
We have 2 mollies, 2 tiger barbs, 2 albino rainbow sharks, 3 Bala sharks, and 1 glassfish.
<Generally speaking, livebearers, including mollies, need to be kept in 3:1 female:male ratios, to avoid letting the male unduly harass the females. Here's a good livebearer article: http://www.wetwebmedia.com/FWSubWebIndex/poeciliids.htm
Tiger barbs generally do best in groups. Also, be aware that these fish are very fin-nippy...do watch out for the mollies, especially if they have fancy, long fins. http://www.wetwebmedia.com/FWSubWebIndex/BarbsDaniosRasborasArt.htm
See here for helpful article on Bala (and rainbow) sharks and their requirements: http://www.wetwebmedia.com/FWSubWebIndex/bala_sharks.htm
Do be sure to fully understand the fish you have and each of their respective requirements prior to adding any new livestock!>
  Most of these are less than 1-2 inches long.  
<They will grow...>
Unfortunately, the tigers were showing signs of ick so I pulled all the fishies out and put them in a clean empty 10 gallon tank I had.
<That's pretty crowded for 10 fish - hopefully you are doing regular water changes, and there's a good filtration system on this QT...>
I have the filter box running for water movement with no cartridge and no gravel.
<You need to very carefully monitor ammonia, nitrite, and/or nitrate build-up. I understand why you aren't using a filter cartridge (for medication purposes) and no gravel (for easy vacuuming of the ich), but just watch out. You should be doing daily tests for toxins (Aquarium Pharmaceuticals makes a Freshwater Master Test kit that I really like)>
I am using this as a hospital tank and using RidIch+ to treat
them.  Each morning I am vacuuming the tank about 25%, adding fresh water with AquaSafe water conditioner, and 1 teaspoon of the RidIch.  I'm also leaving the light off as I read somewhere the light makes the medicine not as effective.  The fish seem to be doing better as most of the spots are gone from the tigers.
<That's good, but do be aware that the ich parasite has a lifecycle, causing it to go through various stages, some of which aren't visible to the naked eye. Do read here for info. and various treatment options: http://www.wetwebmedia.com/FWSubWebIndex/fwich.htm
  My question is what should I be doing to the 100 gallon tank?  I read several places that not having fish will cause the ick to die with no other actions needed.
<This is true - it's called letting the tank run "fallow". You'll need to leave it fishless for at least 4 weeks, safer option is 6.>
The temp of both tanks is right around 76 degrees.
<Raising the temperature (gradually when fish are present, obviously) speeds up the parasite's lifecycle...>
I do not have  heater for the large tank as the room temp will never get lower than this.
<Never say never. You definitely need a heater, as it is extremely important to keep aquarium temperatures stable.  Here's some options; I prefer the submersible ones - http://www.drsfostersmith.com/Product/NavResults.cfm?N=2004&Np=1&Ntt=heater&Ntx=mode+matchallpartial&Ntk=All&Nty=1&pc=1
How long do I need to keep the large tank empty?
<4-6 weeks at current temperature, less if temp. is increased.>
I am also trying to complete the cycling on this tank so would like to repopulate before the load gets too low and I lose my good bacteria.
<Ideally, you should have cycled the tank prior to adding fish. Indeed, now you can accomplish this buy adding a small bit of fish food, and allowing the ammonia, nitrite and nitrates to spike, then decrease, on their own.>  
I'm still doing partial water changes on the large tank daily to reduce the nitrites and finally have them in an acceptable range.
<By doing this, you are not allowing the cycle to complete. Without fish in the tank, you've got the luxury of allowing the toxins to build-up; do see above link for cycling info.>
Thanks,
Beth
<You're welcome, Beth. Take this opportunity to allow your main tank to cycle.  Keep a close eye on water parameters in the hospital tank - you'll need to do daily 25% - 50% water changes, with such a heavy fish load. Do read the links I've provided, and consider investing in a helpful beginner's book by David E. Boruchowitz, called "A Simple Guide to Freshwater Aquariums" - it will help you better understand many of the aspects of this wonderful hobby. Regards, Jorie>

Ick treatment for 100 gallon freshwater tank 4/25/07  <Chris' go>
Hi,
<Hello>
I have a relatively new 100 gallon tank setup (about 6 weeks).  Up to this weekend, we had 10 very small fish living peacefully in it.  We have 2 mollies, 2 tiger barbs, 2 albino rainbow sharks, 3 Bala sharks, and 1 glassfish. <Not small for long, the Bala can reach 14 inches, the Rainbow around 5+.>  Most of these are less than 1-2 inches long.  Unfortunately, the tigers were showing signs of ick so I pulled all the fishes out and put them in a clean empty 10 gallon tank I had. I have the filter box running for water movement  with no cartridge and no gravel. <Ok>   I am using this as a hospital tank and using RidIch+ to treat them.  <I am not a fan of this medication, better off using a copper based treatment.>  Each morning I am vacuuming the tank about 25%, adding fresh water with AquaSafe water conditioner, and 1 teaspoon of the RidIch. <Ok>
I'm also leaving the light off as I read somewhere the light makes the medicine not as effective.  <Its just plain nasty stuff, too toxic for my liking.>  The fish seem to be doing better as most of  the spots are gone from the tigers.  My question is what should I be doing to the 100 gallon tank? <Regular maintenance, maybe a little food to keep the bacteria going.>  I read several places that not having fish will cause the ick to die with no other actions needed. <Yep, leave it fallow 4 to 6 weeks.> The temp of both tanks is right around 76 degrees.  I do not have a heater for the large tank as the room temp will never get lower than this.  <Stability is key, how hot does it get?>  How long do I need to keep the large tank empty?  <4 to 6 weeks.>  I am also trying to complete the cycling on this tank so would like to repopulate before the load gets too low and I lose my good bacteria. <Unnecessary to put the fish through this, a little food every couple days does just as well.> I'm still doing partial water changes on the large tank daily to reduce the nitrites and finally have them in an acceptable range.  <If there is nothing alive in there let it be.>
Thanks,
Beth
<Chris>

Re: Compatibility question ... now disease, FW  4/21/07
Hi Neale,
<Hello Joe,>
In regard to the ich problem I had, I used a product called Quick Cure. It claims to cure ich in 2 days.
<This is likely true with regular whitespot/ick. But there is something going about called (in the UK at least) "super whitespot" that takes a couple of treatments to kill.>
I followed the instructions (removed carbon, 1 drop per gallon each day, no need to elevate temperature) but I still lost 80% of my tank.
<Very odd. As I understand it, ich kills fish by destroying the delicate tissues in the gills, making it impossible for the fish to breathe. Otherwise, it isn't especially dangerous in the short term. By that, I mean that it is one of those diseases that when you see it, you have time to cure it; this is different from, say, dropsy or Neon Tetra Disease, which are practically death-knells by the time you see the fish are sick.>
My 5 year old Iridescent shark and 3 year old Tri-color shark were the first casualties. The next day all of my tiger barbs and rosy barbs were on their way out.
<Did they all have ich? Is it possible it was something else, or perhaps a symptom of a background problem you haven't recognized yet? That's what I'd be wondering. There are some look-alike diseases, such as velvet and "guppy disease".>
I've been playing around with fish tanks for about 15 years now. I try to be careful where I buy my fish. If I see any sick fish or small snails in any of the tanks I will not buy fish from that store. I have had 3 outbreaks of ich and each time it wiped out most of my tank.
<Seems sensible enough given your experiences, but I've encountered ich many times and never knowingly lost fish to it.>
I was thinking about trying something other that Formalin-Malachite Green treatment if I get the disease again. What do you think about using a Chelated Copper Sulfate based treatment?
<Copper sulphate (as we call it here in England) is old school and can be effective, but some fishes respond poorly to copper-compounds generally. This has little or nothing to do with whether they have scales or not. Copper sulphate is effectively a form of chemotherapy, it is toxic to both fish and Protozoans, but the gamble is that the fish will put up with it for longer than the protozoan parasites. This isn't, unfortunately, always the case. The list of copper-intolerant fishes includes all kinds of things, but Mormyrids, freshwater moray eels, stingrays, pufferfish, and catfish have all been described as copper-intolerant at some time or another. Methylene blue, Malachite green, and Formalin in and of themselves do not contain copper, so should be safer with these fishes. Unfortunately, many proprietary brands mix copper with one or other of these organic compounds, so you do need to check with the manufacturer first. As a rule, anything quoted as "invertebrate safe" should be copper-free.>
I do not have any snails, live plants or scaleless fish anymore. The product from Mardel claims that it doesn't stain anything in the tank, that sounds good to me.
<Mardel Labs have a good reputation, so I'd certainly give it a shot.>
If you have a reliable treatment I would appreciate any guidance.
<Very old school, but potentially very effective, is giving fish saltwater baths. This isn't the same as adding salt to the aquarium, which is generally useless despite the hype, but dipping freshwater fish into containers of seawater. If done properly, it dehydrates the external parasites, killing them instantly. If repeated over several days alongside treating the water with your ich treatment, you provide relief for the fish as well as cure the problem in the tank. Often overlooked by aquarists is this: ick treatments kill the "baby" parasites in the water and gravel, they do nothing whatsoever to kill the "adult" parasites on the fish. The best case scenario is that you kill off the babies, and then after a few days the adult parasites basically die from old age. What you're hoping for is that by that time they haven't done enough harm to the fish to kill it. Hence the importance of treating at the very first sign of ick. Anyway, saltwater dips will kill the parasites on the fish, but if handled badly will also kill the fish itself. The art is dipping the fish for long enough to kill the parasite but not so long the fish is harmed. In the case of small species like tetras this might be only a couple of minutes, but with bigger fish or salt-tolerant species, you can dip for much longer, maybe 10-20 minutes at a time. Repeat daily until the fish is cured.>
As I mentioned before, I have never had any luck when dealing with ich.
<I have to admit to having had very good success with a product called 'eSHa EXIT' that I have personally found to be safe with my pufferfish and catfish, and very good at shifting whitespot other brands failed to exterminate. It's a Dutch product though, and may or may not be available in your area.>
I'm going to look for some of the cichlids you mentioned below. I already have a 30gal community tank and I wanted to try something new with my 55gal.
<West African cichlids are terribly overlooked superb animals. Lots of colour, plenty of interesting behaviour, from maternal families to paternal mouthbrooders. I heartily recommend Pelvivachromis taeniatus as being very peaceful, colourful, and easy to breed (if you want to). Check out: http://www.wetwebmedia.com/FWSubWebIndex/pelmatochromis.htm >
If the substrate causes any problems or if I just feel like redecorating the tank in the future, I'm going to use silica sand. I never though about that until you mentioned it. Thanks for all of the suggestions, they were very helpful.
<*Smooth-grade* silica sand is lovely with fish because they root about in it so happily, often digging right in. It's cool to watch Corydoras ploughing through the stuff like mini-earthmovers! Just be sure and avoid *sharp* sand, which is, as you'd imagine, sharp and not so nice for the fishes.>
Thank you,
Joe
<No probs. Neale>

Catfish ich  4/8/07
Hello!
<<Hi, Victor. Tom here.>>
I have a somewhat urgent question, since I just added fish to a tank that already had a Pleco in it, but one of them had ich.
<<Oops…>>
Unfortunately one of the additions is an angel catfish (Synodontis angelicus) and I’m not sure what treatment to use so I do not harm him. Thank you for your time and best regards.
<<Look into Kordon’s Pond Rid-Ich+, Victor. It’s a re-formulation of the original (excellent) product and can be both safe and effective when used to treat scaleless fish like your Synodontis. Obviously, you’ll want to pay special note to any/all precautions and/or recommendations that the manufacturer makes in regard to treatment. As an aside, unless your tank is already heavily aerated, I would also look into providing for this in conjunction with the treatment. Best of luck.>>
Victor Teran
<<Tom>>

Methylene blue  - 03/02/07
Hi there
<<Hello!>>
I have a 4cm black moor in my 10g tank and 3 days after buying it, it developed white spot - I'm assuming it had this when I bought it and I just didn't notice.
<<Perhaps.  What are your plans for tank upgrade?>>
So I put some Methylene blue tonic in the tank to treat the whitespot, and the people at the pet shop (another one - I didn't trust the first lot after the sick fish) said to replace the airstone once the fish was well and the blueness would come out of the water.
<<Methylene blue is not the proper medication to treat ick. There are much better treatments for this.  You biofilter is likely gone now as well from dosing the main tank.  I’d get on large water changes, adding Bio Spira and mature filter media from an established tank, and add some activated carbon to the filter to help remove the medication.>>
I have an under gravel filter but not a carbon filter as such. The problem is that adding an air stone has made no difference,
<<No, it wouldn’t.>>
And my healthy-looking moor is now swimming around in blueness. I've done two 50% water changes over the past 2 days in an attempt to clear the water but it's still very blue.
I don't want to tip all the water out and start again because I don't want to kill or stress my fish, but I am quite keen to get rid of the blueness -any ideas?
<<See above.  If you have nowhere to add carbon (a small HOT filter will do), keep up the water changes.  Please note that the Methylene Blue will permanently colour the silicone in the joints of your tank.>>
Would tipping all the water out and starting again be that bad given that the Methylene blue probably killed my biofilter anyway? <<Usually does not. RMF>>
<<I recommend large water changes, not total water changes.>>
Rose
<<Good Luck Rose! Lisa.>>

FW ich, lying, using WWM  2/12/07
Hello Jarrett here, am having some major issues concerning ich. Am
<I'm>
new to the aquarium trade and desperately seeking advice on treating ich. I have 2 55 gallon tanks one with 3 Columbian
<Columbian>
sharks  all about two inches. Tank is still freshwater but i am using some salt. Other tank has 2 tiger barbs, 1 dragon goby, 1 Bala shark, 1 pictus catfish, 1 angel, 4 platys, 2 dwarf frogs, 1 Sailfin Pleco, 2 black mystery snails, 4 fancy guppies, and a small convict cichlid who is going to a new tank next week.
<Stop! Many of these animals don't "like" salts...>
Both tanks nitrites, and ammonia is 0 and ph, nitrate an GH all check out too.
<Values, not subjective evaluations...>
Anyway Columbian sharks fell prey to ich about 9 days ago I've been treating them with "quick cure" .
<A giant mistake... the ingredients (Formalin, Malachite Green) are toxic to much of the life listed... and you erroneously added this to the main system? Will kill your nitrifying bacteria... and be absorbed... not useful>
I have raised the water temperature to 85 degrees and removed carbon from filter.
<Good moves>
Also have been performing regular water changes of 25%. It is now on day 7 of treatment and there not reacting at all. My other tank has just shown signs of ich as well and treating with Clout.
<? Why?>
This tank is on day three of treatments but also is showing no signs of letting up. I've read all the info on your site
<Mmm, no... not on WWM.>
and followed the directions for the meds to a T but nothing. This is getting depressing and i
<I>
don't know how much more of this i or the fish can take. Any advice would be much appreciated and also what is the best ich medicine out there.  Thanks for the time
<Don't write, read: http://www.wetwebmedia.com/FWSubWebIndex/fwich.htm
and the linked files above... and re each of the organisms listed above's "System"... Bob Fenner>

Preventive ich treatment without a quarantine tank, FW
I set up a 10 gallon aquarium in December.  About a week after adding 3 platies (1 male, 2 females) I had an outbreak of ich.
<"Tis the season">
  I treated it for 10 days with Jungle Ick Guard.
<Mmm... not likely useful in a set-up system... interaction of active ingredients with substrates, filter biota...>
The male died, but the 2 females have been looking great.  The aquarium hadn't finished cycling when I started treating for ich,
<Trouble>
so it's cycling now.
<Subtended>
  The ammonia has dropped to 0 and the nitrites are now dropping, so I think it's cycling well.  Once it finishes cycling I want to add 2-3 more platies.  I'm worried about another outbreak of ich when I add more fish.  I don't have a quarantine tank and can't afford one right now.  I've read in several places that you can do a preventive ich treatment when you add new fish.  But I've read other places that you shouldn't treat fish if you don't know they're sick.
<Both philosophies, approaches exist...>
I'm confused about what my best options are considering that I don't have a quarantine tank.  I would greatly appreciate any advice you have.
Thanks!
~Jamie
<Mmm, best to read re Ich, treatment... on WWM... avail yourself of other modality... and just do your best re picking out healthy (well-established, not new-arrivals) livestock... Really, developing trust through knowledge, interaction with your dealers. Bob Fenner>

Can African Dwarf Frogs Get Ich?  1/29/07
<Hi Betty, Pufferpunk here>
I'm a beginner with aquatic pets, so I need all the help I can get.  It all started when my little terrier got hit and killed by a car last March.  
<Awww... that's so sad.  #1 cause of doggie death is getting run over.>
That left me pet-less for the first time in 16 years.  So for my birthday last June, my co-worker gave me a male Betta (named Flash) which I keep in a 2 1/2 gallon aquarium with some gravel and a few live plants.  A few weeks later, I was in the pet store asking what I could put in the tank with Flash to keep him company and the store worker suggested the ADFs.  That sounded good to me, especially since I have a particular affection for reptiles and amphibians.  
<Not really enough room for more animals in there.>
So I bought a couple of tiny ADFs (named Slim and Chance, because that's what I thought the odds were of them staying alive under my care).  But when I put them in Flash's tank, he started nipping at them, so I quickly removed them and put them in their own tank.
<Good>
They now reside in a five-gallon aquarium with a Whisper filter, a few plants, a couple of "houses" and a smooth pebble substrate.
<Perfect size for just the 2 frogs & nothing else.>
But I couldn't leave well enough alone, so a few weeks ago, I purchased a couple of serpae tetras to try with Flash, with the same results, so I put them in with the frogs.  
<Opps!>
One of the tetras started bullying the other tetra, so I sent the bully back to the pet store.  Anyway, that's when I saw the neon tetras, and they looked so pretty, I ended up getting two of those and putting them in with the frogs and the serpae tetra.  As it ended up, I think one of the Neons was sick when I got him, so I removed the two tetras from the frog tank and put them in a bowl.  The next morning I had a dead neon but the other neon looked OK, so I went to a different store and bought a replacement neon.  Then the second neon started looking like it had ich (based on what I was able to learn about it from the Internet) so I put it in its own bowl and started treating it with Quick Cure.  I also took the serpae tetra and the latest neon and put them in a separate bowl.  Both the Neons ended up dying, which left the serpae tetra, who now looks like he's got ich too.  I've started treating him but I don't hold out much hope of curing him the way my luck is running.  I can handle losing the tetra but I'm really attached to Flash, Slim and Chance.  Flash appears to be doing fine, especially since I've stopped trying to find buddies for him and so far Slim and Chance look OK but I'm scared to death they'll get ich and die.  
<They don't get ich but can be affected by ich meds.>
They've been doing great for months, and I've discovered Slim is male and Chance is female, so that's kind of neat, although if they mate, I hope they eat their babies before they leave the egg stage.  I hope that doesn't make me sound cold; I just don't want more frogs.  
<I don't blame you.  My girlfriend's did spawn & they eventually ate all the tadpoles.>
So please let me know if Slim and Chance could get ich.  I do frequent water changes like I'm supposed to.  I don't know what else to do besides worry and pray that they make it.
<Sounds like they'll do fine.  Just don't add anymore fish to that small tank, especially Neons.  They are a difficult fish to care for.  ~PP>
Betty Williams

Re: Can African dwarf frogs get ich? Life of Ich  2/1/07
The 5 and 10 gallon aquariums sound good on paper but I'll have to find the space for the 10g.  Needless to say, this hobby is mushrooming into a big production but I do want the "kids" to be happy.  
<LOL, I have 9 tanks running, totaling 454 gallons.  This hobby's addictive!>
If I can't swing the 10-gallon, I may just get another 5g for the Betta.  In the meantime, I'm still nursing the remaining serpae tetra in a two-gallon "convalescent bowl."  Each day when I check on him, I think I'm going to find him belly-up but today he's just as perky as ever.  If he's willing to hang in there, he's welcome to stay.  He still has those white spots on his tail.
<Be sure to do plenty of water changes on that.>
How do you know when the ich is gone?
<Ich has a 21-day lifecycle. I'd read up on the parasite/treatment at WWM.  ~PP>

Problems With My Ich Medication 1/29/07
Hi there, <Hi> I often use your site to answer any questions I have regarding goldfish care. <Good.>  I find there are lots of Q and A's about treating ich, but I haven't found any that specifically say how much medicine, how far apart the doses should be and how much and often the water changes should be during the treatment. <Follow the manufacturers instructions.> I have had goldfish get ich 3 times and every time I followed the instructions I have found on the back of the medicine bottle and/or your site as best as I can and most of the goldfish seem to end up dying as result of the medication. <Some medications are very toxic.>  After a couple days of very labored respiration.  I was hoping you could help me with treating ich outbreaks with our fancy goldfish in the future if I let you know what I have unsuccessfully done in the past and what I am doing with the current outbreak I am dealing with... <Will try.>
We use a medicine called NOX-ICH in which the active ingredients read:  sodium chloride, malachite green - 1%. <Malachite Green is pretty nasty stuff, would not recommend using it or really keeping it in a household with children.  It’s just that bad in my opinion.  http://www.wetwebmedia.com/malachitegreen.htm >  On the back of the bottle it says to add one drop per gallon for 3 consecutive days.  We removed the filters and medicated as instructed and all my gold fish developed breathing problems and died.  
The 2nd time I had a problem I added the 1 drop/gallon, removed the filters, waited 2 days, remedicated again and all the fish developed breathing problems so I did a 50% water change to reduce the amount of medicine but the fish still died.
With the current outbreak in our 10 gallon quarantine tank that we have set up for 4 new goldfish we were hoping to add to our 60 gallon tank I removed all but the sponge filter, added the 1 drop per gallon, waited 2 days and did a 50% water change and remedicated.  The visible signs of ich are gone but of the 4 goldfish in the tank 2 are sluggish still but seem like they will be ok - still eating.  The other 2 goldfish I had  remove to a separate tank with no medicine and a lower water level so they could get to the surface easier to breath since they were having trouble breathing.  After 24 hours in the separate tanks they are not doing any better.  I have seen this behavior enough that I am pretty sure that these 2 fish aren't going to make it.  I would really like to find a way to treat the  ich in the future with out killing my fish.
I would really appreciate a step by step guide to treating my next outbreak should there be one.
Can I use this same medicine (NOX-ICH)? <Would probably switch to something else.>  How much and how often with the medication and how much and how often with the water changes?  Should I still feed the fish during treatment? <Sparingly> Should the fish be kept in the dark? <Not necessary.>
Thanks so much for your time,
Matt
<Give this a read, would try salt or copper treatments over what you are currently using.  http://www.wetwebmedia.com/FWSubWebIndex/fwich.htm >
<Chris>

Ick question, FW large sys.   1/24/07
    Before I begin I would like to thank whoever is nice enough to answer my question and apologize for giving you another ick question (even though I haven't seen one exactly like it before).  
I have a 10 gal. hospital/quarantine tank, a 55 gal. that currently houses a batch of baby blue crawdads and a 240 gal. with about 10 medium cichlids (Dempseys, Firemouths, terrors, etc.)
<Nice!>
    I usually quarantine fish for 4 weeks before they go in the big tank,
<Good>
but because of a fish that got wounded over the weekend while I was away, I had to move a new Dempsey into the main tank after only about a week and an injured Firemouth into the hospital tank (stupid, I know).  My electric blue Dempsey and the new Dempsey (no one else) now have ick and I didn't want to move the injured fish again and I didn't want to move all the crawdads so I started treating the 240 gal. with a malachite green/formalin solution.
<Yikes... I would have skipped the formalin component... and just gone the Malachite and elevated temperature route. Do be on the look-out for troubles with nitrification... or lack thereof>
The meds don't seem to be working after a few days  and saving the Dempsey is top priority.
<Very, too likely the "mulm" et al. biota in the large, established system is "sucking up" the medication... along with the Silastic (is it turning blue yet?)... and there are no practical test kits, assays to check for the levels of the active ingredients...>
    I could move the crawdads and make the 55 a hospital tank, but it is anything but clean after gorging 70ish crawdads on beef heart and pellets.
<I would not do this>
  I really don't want to move the injured fish as I already feel bad for it.  Should I raise the temp. of the big tank (it's at 80 degrees right now),
<Yes! To the mid- 80's F... this alone will likely "do it"...>
add salt, treat with something else, etc.?  I've read about giving fish salt baths but never actually done it.
<Not necessary or advised here... too much trouble to drain the tank to catch all....>
    The electric blue is my favorite fish but also the least hardy fish I have and want to know the best way to treat him w/o causing him too much stress or subjecting him to bad conditions.
I'm really sorry this was so long and I sincerely thank you in advance for any help.
Sincerely, Alex Herzlin
<The elevated temperature, along with careful daily monitoring for ammonia, nitrite is your best course of action here. Bob Fenner>

Re: ick question, FW  2/1/07
     Thanks so much for the help.  So its been a week and almost all the ick is gone (one, maybe two dots on the Dempsey's fins).  
My problem is now the electric blue is showing major signs of stress (breathing heavy, very lethargic, and some frayed fins from breeding Firemouths) which have been going on for about two days.  
its hard for me to measure the nitrites, ammonia, etc.  b/c the meds turn the water blue which would effect the test strips I use.
I've put the charcoal back in the tank but kept the temp. in the mid 80's.
<Good>
foreseeing this problem that one or more of the fish may not like the decrease in water quality, I moved the crawdads from the 55 and have since been holding one fish in it just to maintain it.
     My question is should I move the Dempsey to the clean 55 gallon and maybe add some MelaFix
<Not a fan>
or do you think this would just stress him more?  
<I'd treat all fishes as you have been>
Any advice from someone with more experience than me is always greatly appreciated and, as before, thanks so much in advance for any help.
Sincerely, Alex
<And you have read the files on WWM re ich... BobF>

Freshwater ick? Not likely  - 1/22/07
Hi folks,
<Jennifer>
First off, thanks for all of the great info you offer on your website! I've been an avid reader since I started the hobby a few months ago.
I think I have an outbreak of ick in my 29 gallon freshwater tank. I haven't introduced anything new to my tank for about a month.
<Yes... FW Ich can "rest" indefinitely...>
The tank has been up for about 3 months. Right now I have 3 platies, 6 penguin tetras, 3 panda Corys, 2 spotted Corys, 3 dwarf Gouramis, 3 Oto catfish and a rainbow shark. I just noticed that one of the platies has a white, round, fuzzy growth under her bottom lip. It seems bigger than the pictures of ick that I have seen online so I'm not sure it is ick.
<Mmm, no... likely a "secondary" bacterial infection, following some sort of physical trauma... a bump, jump into something>
Maybe a fungus or something? The water parameters have been stable and pretty good (nitrates at 5, nitrites at 0, ammonia at 0) except for some unknown reason the pH started dropping in the past week.
<Natural... can be, likely should be countered with just partial water changes (maybe weekly) with water that has some degree of alkaline reserve>
The guy at my LFS told me that instead of purchasing a pH upper, I could just use pure baking soda to raise the pH and stabilize the alkalinity.
<This is so>
So I did that, and added some dissolved baking soda (about a teaspoonful as per the guy's recommendation) to the tank
<Not directly... should be introduced, dissolved in new water during a change-out>
which has helped the pH situation. That was this morning. The other change that I made recently was about a week ago I switched from the filter that came with my tank to a Penguin Bio-Wheel filter. Could that have been the cause of the pH drop?
<Mmm, not likely... pH drops are mainly due to reductive/acidic (natural) activity...>
Could that have stressed my fish too much and caused the outbreak?
<A possibility, yes>
I have some aquarium salt on hand so I was hoping that I could use that to treat as soon as possible as the stores are all closed by now.
<Mmm, not much... the Corydoras and Tetras don't "care" for this>
However, I've read that salt can be dangerous to some catfish and I was worried about my Corys and the Otos. I tried to read more about the salt treatment by clicking on the link in one of your FAQ's but the link wouldn't work for me and kept saying that the page had a fatal error.
<Mmm, could you send along the specific URL/page...?>
Is there another page you could recommend to read up on the salt treatment?
<I would just read the FAQs on the one there. There is no article as yet as far as I recall>
Will my cats be okay with the salt?
<I wouldn't add more>
If it isn't ick but rather is a fungus of some sort will the salt help or hurt it?
<Should help>
Should I raise the temperature in addition to the salt or is that going to be too much stress on the fish at once?
<To the low 80's F. should be fine>
Thanks so much for all of your help!
Jen
<Welcome. Bob Fenner>

ICK Question ATTN: Bob Fenner
Hello Bob. Thanks for the advice. I have an update on my Ick problem. I did not add any medication yet. It has now been nine days since I raised my water's temperature to 88F (I have plenty of airstones) in an attempt to kill off the parasite by disrupting its reproductive cycle. I think I have been successful thus far. As expected the outbreak got worse while I was raising the temp from 76 to 88 as for two days the water was between 80 and 85 which Ick thrives in. However, once above 85, the symptoms began to decline...still some flashing but very few white spots. 
After day six there were no more white spots so I did a 25% water change/gravel vacuum to help remove what was left of the parasite. This, I believe, may have stirred some of the dormant parasites back to life as now I am seeing some more typical Ick symptoms in my fish. Nonetheless, only one of my fish has developed white spots (and only one or two at that) and the rest are just occasionally flashing. One of my fish (a red velvet swordtail), however, has been hanging around the bottom with clamped fins and rapid breathing. 
<Likely both temperature and disease related>
He seems to be the most at risk for fatality at this point. My question to you is, should I add the Aquari-sol that you recommended?
<Yes, I would add it>
Or, should I stay the course, and see if the 88 degree temp will take care of the problem?  
<In all likelihood the elevated temperature will not effect an actual cure... by itself>
By the way my water parameters have all stayed stable during this process (which is one reason I am reluctant to use medication). Thanks again for the advice.
-Brody
<I share your concern... and sorry for the delayed response... am still out of the country. Bob Fenner> 

Loaches have ICK now   1/15/07
We've got the guppies in a hospital tank now.  My husband did a salt treatment (adding 2 T per gallon a day for 3 days, today being the last day) and they're already looking 95% better.
However, I came home today with my loaches having ick. Great.  I read up on loaches disease FAQ and on Loaches.com and want to try the salt and elevated temp.  However, the hospital tank is currently being used.  Again, the tank is planted (they don't like salt) with Neons (they don't like salt, either, right?)
<Correct>
and guppies.  So am I resigned to buying another hospital tank?
<Yes, does appear so>
I know the ph has fluctuated over the past week, but I think it's my tap water.
<Could "be" either or both>
Hopefully that was the stress that's causing the fish to get sick.  We'll test the water again and do a water change even if everything is normal.  Can ADFs get ick?  
<No... but do note that they are susceptible to poisoning from the medications employed to treat this protozoan parasite>
As re: overfeeding, how do I feed the loaches a couple times a day and keep the guppies away from it?  
<Sinking foods mostly>
Thanks again, for the site and answering of questions.  If only everything I did in life had a website as extensive as yours with people as nice as you to volunteer their expertise.
Celeste
<I await this day... anxiously at times. Bob Fenner>
And how long after the ick disappears do I need to QT the loaches?
<Two weeks plus. Bob Fenner>

Re: Loaches have ICK now... reading    1/17/06
A few of the Neons and guppies in the large tank have 1-3 spots of ick on them.
<Your system is infested>
We want to pull everything out and monitor/treat them and let the tank sit empty for several days.
<Longer>
  I asked earlier if ADFs can get ick, which you replied that no, but they can't handle medicines used to treat ick.
<Correct>
Will the ick still be host less and die if we leave the ADFs in the main tank?  
<Yes... they can stay... not be vectors, space hosts>
Then we can treat everyone else as necessary.  Thanks, we appreciate your help and support.
Celeste
<Read on WWM re FW Ich... Bob Fenner>

Sick fish, FW Ich, formalin poisoning  1/9/07
Hi crew, I have recently had an outbreak of ick in my aquarium and have started to treat it with formalin and malachite green,
<Yikes... easily toxic... to both your livestock and beneficial microbe populations that perform critically important biological filtration>
as well as frequent water changes and addition of some salt to the water. It seems though that after having added the medication the fish seem to be "drowsy" as they appear to be sleeping most of the day.
<Good observation... poisoning>
Some just lie down at the bottom of the tank, behind rocks and leaves, but there are also some that seem to prop themselves up against an ornament in the tank and sort of stand on their heads. Is this normal?
<For being poisoned, yes>
And also, not long after the ick started they seem to now also have fin rot now.
<Secondary...>
I assume this is because they are stressed and weakened by the ick.
<And/or whatever the root cause was/were, and the medication...>
Should I be treating for both illnesses, or will the fin rot heal itself as they get better?
<You should be using other means period... NOT formalin... and elevated temperature>
I've checked the water quality and the only thing that is slightly high is the nitrate level but it is still below 20 (only at about 5 or 10). I read that generally just adding salt and keeping the water quality good is what will help them recover the most from fin rot. I'm really worried about losing all of my fish since one has died already. Thank you for your help. Erika
<Please read here, and soon: http://wetwebmedia.com/FWSubWebIndex/fwich.htm
and the linked files above; particularly on Ich and Formalin use. Bob Fenner>

Can you please help me cure my ich.     1/6/07
<<Hello, Chris. Tom with you this time.>>
Can you please help me cure my ich.  
<<Likely your fish have Ich, Chris. If you’ve got it, we’re in trouble. :) >>
I have a 10 gallon tank that we purchased the day before Christmas.  We have 1 Oranda, 1 calico fantail and 1 gold fantail.  
<<The tank’s too small for these fish, Chris. Aside from that, it’s highly unlikely that your tank could have “cycled” in this short period of time. In all probability, they’re dealing with high levels of ammonia and/or nitrites. Potentially both. Not a good situation.>>
The 2 fantail’s came down with ich and the case seems pretty severe.  It is all over their bodies. As soon as I noticed the bumps I went out and got Quick Cure. I have been adding 10 drops once a day like the instructions say, but nothing appears to be getting better.  I have changed out 20% of the water yesterday which was day 3.  Today is day 4 and the instructions say to not use but 3 times.  What should I do? I have taken out the carbon filter and left it out.  
<<Skip the Quick Cure for the time being and do a massive – 90% - water change. If you have a heater, slowly raise the temperature up to 80 degrees. If you don’t have a heater, get one. At the same time, purchase some aquarium salt. In conjunction with the water change, add aquarium salt to the new water, along with a good water conditioner. The final destination here is to have a ratio of three tablespoons of salt per gallon of aquarium water and a temperature of, at least, 80 degrees. The salt will kill the juvenile parasites and the elevated temperature will speed up the life-cycle of the Ich so that the salt can do its job. (Only works on the juvenile stage of the critters. The adults – the ones on the fish and the ones encysted at the bottom of your tank - are immune to anything.)>>  
The 2 fantails are only active when it is eating time now.  That is not usual for them.  1 of them appears to not like the light and hides out often…then came the ick so I think the light stressed the fish out and it spread.  I don’t have a vacuum for the tank.  Should I get one?
<<Absolutely. When you do the water changes, you’ll need to vacuum the bottom of the tank heavily to try to get as many of the parasites before they break out and go searching for a host, i.e. your fish. Much to be learned, Chris. Wish I could offer you a “silver bullet” here but you’ve gotten yourself, and your fish, into a bit of a pickle. You need to get this tank cycled and, not to impugn a Christmas present, upgraded to, at least, 30-40 gallons if you want to keep the Goldfish. Two tanks are better anyway, and we can help make sure the ten-gallon tank won’t be wasted. As a final recommendation (as if you wanted one!) get yourself a water test kit and test your parameters religiously. You’re “flying blind” right now and can only guess at what’s going on in the tank. Guessing ain’t good. You need to know what the ammonia and nitrite levels are along with pH and nitrate levels. The first two are most critical as these will stress or even kill your fish. Hang in there, Chris. These things just got out of order. Otherwise, you’d only (casually) be looking for an upgrade to your current tank.>>
Thank you,  
Chris Dickert
<<Please get back if you have further questions. In the meantime, I wish you success and good luck. Tom>>

Re: ich... How do I control the ammonia & nitrate levels?   1/7/07
<<Hello, Chris.>>
How do I control the ammonia & nitrate levels?
<<Let’s do this first, Chris. The nitrogen cycle goes like this: ammonia -> nitrites -> nitrates. So, it’s actually the ammonia and nitrites that you need, immediately, to be concerned about. Those are the serious toxins in the tank. The nitrates are the “caboose” of the nitrogen cycle, so to speak, and will be handled with regular, small water changes after the tank cycles. Normal maintenance stuff. (That’s down the road, though.)>>
When I do the massive water overhaul what do I do with the fish?  Do I leave them in the 10%?  Will this shock the fish?  Should I take them out and clean the entire tank and start over?  
<<All of this can be simplified to where you wondered why you were worried to begin with (beyond the “obvious” problem, of course). Purchase a five-gallon bucket from your local hardware (Home Depot, Lowe’s or even the LFS). Give it a good cleaning in hot water with a little bleach and rinse it thoroughly. Siphon five gallons of water out of the tank. (The fish will be fine for this very short time.) Add in the fresh, conditioned water and you’ve just cut the polluted solution to 50% of its original toxin level. Repeat. You’ve cut it to 25% of the original. Repeat. You’ve cut it to 12.5% of the original. One more time and you’re at 6.25% of the original toxin level. In short, with four five-gallon changes, you’ve effectively performed a 93.75% water change. (Rigorously speaking, this isn’t 100% accurate. It presupposes that the ammonia and nitrites remaining after each five-gallon water change instantly mix into 100% of the tank water. Real people terms? Close enough! ;) ) Now, assuming we’re starting from scratch on the aquarium salt, If you dissolve in 4-6 tablespoons with the last five-gallon change (completely dissolved, by the way), you’ll bring the cumulative salt level to 2-3 tablespoons per five gallons in the tank. Lots of labor but no ‘rocket science’ here.>>
I took some water by the local wet pets and they said the ammonia was high but it was normal since it hasn’t cycled thru.  
<<Uh huh. Same as saying it’s normal for all of your bones to be broken because you dove, head-first, into the Grand Canyon. Ammonia and nitrite poisoning kill fish in a painful and ugly way. Plain and simple. At the low end of the spectrum, this contributes to stress promoting infestations like Ich due to the lowering of the fish’s immune system. Sound familiar? I’m not picking on you but the fact that the folks you spoke to didn’t give you the same information that I just did “bothers” me! On the lighter side, I guess it would put me out of work, eh? :) >>
How do the ammonia levels get out of hand?
<<In your case, they haven’t gotten “out of hand”, Chris. Just part of the natural process of cycling an aquarium. The beneficial bacteria that feed on ammonia, and nitrites, just haven’t had time to populate your tank adequately to keep the levels where they need to be, which is at zero. Can take some time, weeks, in fact, depending on how you go about it. Once things get squared away and, you’ve taken some time to do some research, this will all seem like a no-brainer. Trust me. In the meantime, keep me posted, if you will. Tom>>

Re: ich   1/7/07
<<Hello, Chris.>>
Before I received this email back from you I completed the 90% overhaul of the tank.  I went out and purchased a vacuum along with a ph balancer, ammonia stripe test, a heater, and something called "cycle."  
<<Chemically treating for a specific pH level is a crapshoot, Chris. It’s generally considered best, by today’s standards, to acclimate the fish to the pH of the water you have readily available. The thinking here is that keeping the pH stable is far better in the long run, whether it’s “optimal” or not, than to tinker and potentially send it swinging back and forth. Changes in pH are what endangers the fish far more than holding it steady above or below the ideal. As for the Cycle product, it’s not going to do the deed for you. There’s only one product of this type that I or, any of the rest of us here, would recommend for “instantly” cycling a tank and that’s BIO-Spira from Marineland. This product must be kept refrigerated as it contains live bacteria, Nitrosomonas bacteria to control ammonia and Nitrospira bacteria for the nitrites.>>
I took 1 gallon out of the tank and put it in a 1 gallon bowl with the 2 fish. They are really looking weak.  
<<Sorry to hear this but it doesn’t come as a surprise given the circumstances.>>
I added 2 tablespoons of salt to the tank (as the directions said to add 1 rounded tablespoon per 5 gallons) and I added 90% of a teaspoon of aqua safe (for the chlorine).  
<<Okay. No real need to be too precise on the conditioner since you can’t overdose the tank with it but, so far, so good.>>
I went ahead and installed the heater and added a dose of cure all (for the ich) even though the fish are in the 1 gallon tank.  
<<The medication and/or salt only works on the parasites in the juvenile stage, anyway, i.e. the ones that have burst out of the cysts at the bottom of the tank.>>
I lost the Oranda yesterday.  
<<Sorry, Chris.>>
I tested the ammonia in the 1 gallon bowl and it is on the "danger"-worst mark.  
<<Understandable.>>
I tested the new water in the 10 gallon tank and it says "stress."
<<An improvement, anyway.>>
By the way, my wife won't let me get a bigger tank than 10 gallon.  She about freaked when I got it for Christmas. She was thinking a Betta in a bowl.  
<<If we can’t get this squared away…fast…she might just get her wish.>>
One of the fantails appears to be sloshing the white stuff off her coat, but they are definitely looking like sloth's....hardly moving...just breathing. Should I introduce them back to the tank or hang it up.
<<Into the 10-gallon ASAP! Do NOT dump the water from the bowl into the tank. Likely it has parasites in it that have dropped off the fish. The salt will assist their breathing though there’s no way to tell, from my end, what kind of damage the ammonia may have done to the gills. It will also help in the healing of the wounds on the fish where the parasites were buried in their flesh. Whatever kind of “math” you have to do to keep the salt levels, at least, where they are now, along with the Ich medication, you’re going to have to perform additional water changes, the way I suggested in my last e-mail, to get the ammonia levels down to as low a level as humanly possible. Three a day if that’s what it takes. (If the salt levels go high, this won’t be a problem as you probably noted from our last correspondence.) As long as those fish are alive, “hanging it up” is not an option. Tom>>

Re: ich   1/8/07
<<Hi, Chris.>>
Thank you, Tom, for all the feedback you have given me.  
<<Not a problem at all.>>
Unfortunately the 3 fish have now passed.  It's very sad to see that happen.  
<<Agreed. No life is “disposable”.>>
I emptied the tank out and washed off the rocks and every item in the tank with hot water.
<<Sounds good.>>
I put everything back together and am now in the 24-hour break-in period.  
<<”Break-in” period for what, Chris?>>
I am not going to introduce any fish until tomorrow.  
<<No, Chris, you’re not going to introduce any fish tomorrow! That tank is, effectively, brand new. It needs to cycle! The fact that it didn’t is what killed your Goldfish. We’re going to do this right this time.>>
I was thinking about a couple of tetras.  What do you think?  
<<I think that you and I have to talk about how to properly cycle an aquarium so that “any” fish you introduce don’t die. I want you in the hobby for a very long time and the fastest way to leave it is to keep losing fish unnecessarily.>>
I want to break the tank in the right way this time without any fish that might stress like the gold fish.
<<Good start, Chris, and it means cycling the tank “without” fish. When you put your next “guys” in there, it’ll be ready and safe for them.>>
My little boy keeps asking about Nemo and it is wearing me out.
<<Understood. You can’t imagine what I put up with around my house!>>
I have to get it right this time.  
<<You’re going to.>>
Do you suggest that I get that cycle stuff that you have to refrigerate?  
<<If you’re speaking of the BIO-Spira, absolutely. Get a small filter, if you don’t have one already (an AquaClear Mini would do well), and add the BIO-Spira according to the directions. Do this in the morning, and, by the afternoon, you can add your Tetras. A few Corydoras (itsy-bitsy Catfish, for lack of a better way to put it) will also do very well in your 10-gallon tank. No salt, though. Catfish (scaleless fish) don’t tolerate salt well.>>
Any other advice?  
<<Yes. Add your fish sparingly. Once your tank is established, the beneficial bacteria reach a type of equilibrium with the ammonia and nitrites produced. Too many fish at one time (you don’t have that much room, anyway) will upset the balance resulting in what’s known as a “spike”. (Back, potentially, to the Goldfish situation.) Take your time! This is for the long-haul. Beyond that, teach your little guy the right way to care for fish. So very much to learn, Chris, and very rewarding.>>
Thanks for all the help.
<<You know where to find me, Chris. My best to you. Tom>>

Re: ich  1/9/07
<<Hi, Chris.>>
Would you recommend putting the Bio-Spira in before I add any fish?  
<<Yes, but the irony (if you want to call it that) is that you’ll need to add fish almost immediately, within 24 hours of adding the bacteria and preferably within about 12 hours. The fish will continue to feed the bacteria with ammonia or else you’ll get die-off of most, if not all, of an expensive dose of BIO-Spira.>>
Can the tank cycle without fish?
<<Oh, heavens, yes! Any source of ammonia will help to seed/feed the bio-colonies. Many folks use raw seafood, for example. Shrimp are probably the most popular of these sources. Regular old fish food will also do the trick. If you’d like to take this to a higher level, you can add pure ammonia – not the typical household cleaner variety. Should be able to find the pure stuff at a hardware store. (For our purposes, the cheaper the ammonia is, i.e. no special additives to drive the price up, the better. If it isn’t 100% pure ammonia, don’t get it. Might also go by pure ammonium hydroxide, for what it's worth.) You’ll want to spend some money on a decent test kit, though. The progress of the cycling is rapidly increased using the pure ammonia method and if you don’t test the water regularly it’s like trying to lose 10 pounds of weight without ever weighing yourself to see when you accomplished your goal. On a parting note, if you count yourself as a patient guy, this is a much cheaper way to go than the BIO-Spira (sorry Marineland). Still pretty quick, however. Be talking. Tom (P.S. Chris, if you would, toss my name in at the beginning of posts you want directed specifically to me. Makes the mail easier to direct on our end. Thanks.>>

Re: ich  1/9/07
<<Hey, Chris.>>
Thanks Tom.  
<<No problem.>>
I was told that you had to let the tank sit for 24 hours before bringing any fish into the environment.  
<<By folks who haven’t stayed on top of their game, Chris. “Old school”. We’ve learned to cycle without taking/endangering life in the process.>>
I will look for the Bio-Spira before I even consider bringing home some tetras.  I already added aquarium salt figuring that if there was any leftover Ich in the rocks that it would hopefully kill the left over.  
<<If the juveniles don’t find a host in a short time, they’ll die, Chris. I like the addition of the salt, anyway. A little “payback”, if you will. :)>>
I will wait until you give me the go ahead for the new fish.  Where can I find some Bio-Spira?  
<<Any good fish store should carry the product. I wouldn’t bother with the “chain stores”. BIO-Spira is pricey (sorry) and I know, for a fact, that my local PetSmart, for example, doesn’t carry it. My regular LFS does, however…which is why it’s my regular LFS, among other reasons. You could buy it online if all else fails.>>
Will it by in the local wet-pets fish store?
<<Could be, Chris. Give them a quick phone call.>>
I have checked the pH a couple of times and it is in the safe area right now.  
<<Good.>>
I would like to eventually get back to a couple of goldfish because my son takes to them, but for now and the next while (months) or however long it takes to do this right I will go with whatever you recommend.
<<I don’t like to seem like I missed something since we last spoke but did we lose the Fantails, Chris? (I suspect, sadly, that we did. If so, I’m very sorry.) Okay. The bottom line is that we have to get the tank cycled. Plain and simple. Best to get a test kit to keep an eye on this yourself. Easy way to go about this? When you start to detect nitrates, things are moving in the right direction. It means that the bacteria are doing their job. Get the ammonia and nitrites to zero, nitrates <20 and we’re “golden”. (Eventually, the nitrates may hit zero as well but that will come with time. No need to wait that long.) The nitrates are going to be the key for you. When those are detectable, it means that both sets of bacteria are working in your tank. From there, you can slowly add your new fish. Now, wasn’t that easy? :) Best of luck, my friend. I’ll be here if the need arises. Tom>>

Molly Crossbreeds and susceptibility to white spot    1/5/07
Hello from the middle of the UK
<And hello from Chicagoland, Illinois, USA!>
Firstly, your site really is a fantastic resource, many thanks for the hard work you must all put into it.
<On behalf of the WWM Crew, thanks for the kind words.>
I have found different websites have slightly varying opinions on the finer points of keeping tropical fish...
<...there really are lots of views out there.  Of course, there are some concrete basics that cannot/should not be varied, but many things are debatable...lots of differences of opinion, even amongst crew members at times...>
...your site deals with this so well as the answers in the faq's come from different people as do the questions, it's very informative, thanks again.
<Glad you find it useful! I am always looking things up on the site - it's how I've learned much of what I know about the hobby.>
Having prostrated myself at your feet and declared myself "not worthy" :-).....
<Well, you don't have to go that far!! lol...>
I have a 150 gal tank with 2 female Bettas, 1 Plec, 1 Algae eater (long thin light orange sucky fish, not sure what to call it really)...
<another type of Pleco, perhaps? Any pictures for identification?>
...7 tetras of
varying types, 1 Lyre tail molly and 12 fish that came out of the Molly, I think they may be crossed with a Guppy we have in our other tank...
<crossbreeding between livebearers can, and does, indeed happen>
...(we moved her and some of the offspring, she is getting quite big and the kids were taking over the tank).
<Yup, livebearers can/will do that! I'm amazed they haven't taken over the planet with their reproduction rate...>
Water is at 28.3 deg C +/- .2...
<This is the high-side of OK for most tropical fish, but good for the Bettas...>
...ammonia 0, nitrite 0, nitrate around 40ppm...
<MUST reduce the nitrate levels...20 ppm is as high as they should be.>
(most of the time) ph 7.8 constant. Filter is an Atman 882, it's an in tank filter, housing a heater, 2 compartments holding bags of different filter medium and a pump, in that order as the water flows through. I do a 10% water change/clean every week and add a little stress coat type treatment (Nutrafin AquaPlus) each time to the fresh water to remove the chlorine and help the fish, I normally age the new water for 24 hrs before doing the change and add a little AquaPlus (20ml) to the tank.
<Your water change schedule generally sounds OK, but since those nitrates are so high, I would recommend doing a 10% change 2 times per week, until the levels fall under control.  They really are too high and are likely stressing the fish, causing them to be more susceptible to disease.>
The water from my tap is quite high in nitrate (around 40ppm) so 1 of the bags in the filter contains "Nitrate Sponge" to help keep the nitrate at an acceptable level.
<Well, there's the problem, then...if you keep doing water changes with this water, the nitrate levels likely won't drop.  I'd recommend looking into a RO/DI unit, or at the very least, a DI product such as this one: http://www.aquatichouse.com/WaterPurifiers/tapwaterfilter.asp
The RO/DI unit will cost you more, but will save you money in the long run, as the filters don't have to be replaced nearly as frequently as the Aquarium Pharmaceuticals Tap Water Filter product.  I don't know if they'll ship to the UK, but I am a big fan of www.airwaterice.com for RO/DI units.
I'm not familiar with the "nitrate sponge" product you refer to, but it clearly isn't working.  I really suggest a water filtration system.  Everything else you describe seems great.>
Questions:
Can a Molly cross breed with a Guppy?
<Yes.>
The offspring certainly look like that is the case though there was also a male Swordtail in the other tank when she gave birth (She has also had normal Molly babies before and after this
bunch arrived).
<From my understanding, all livebearers are capable of cross-breeding. Might want to consider just housing a single sex, if you want to keep all these different species.>
A quick aside here, she also gave birth to a Platy!
<Without a platy parent?!>
And we don't have any, well we do now!
<OK- I'm confused a little about that one...>
Why are these cross breeds so susceptible to whitespot (The pure Molly is fine as are the rest of the fish)?
<I am by no means a geneticist, but my general understanding is that too much genetic variation causes all sorts of problems, including a weakened immune system.>
If the nitrate level climbs above 50ppm they start breaking out with it,...
<Nitrates really need to be between 0 and 20 ppm...>
...which is fine when I spend a lot of time watching them as I see the first spots and drop in some of the stress coat stuff and check the nitrate levels straight away and the whitespot goes in a
day or 2. HOWEVER, if it's Christmas and I don't pay enough attention, they get in a hell of a mess in a very short time and it's out with the blue stuff (Waterlife Protozin) to fix them.
<Do read here for some helpful information on treating ich.  Keep in mind that the ich parasite goes through various life-stages, and truly the only way to get rid of it is to run the affected tank fallow for at least a month... http://www.wetwebmedia.com/FWSubWebIndex/fwich.htm >
Probably worth mentioning the fish in question are now at least 4 months old, maybe more.>
Any ideas? The best I can come up with is that it's a genetic failing, but I wanted to check it's not something I am doing wrong, I'm not sure they like it!
<It is likely a genetic weakening, and these fish will likely always be more susceptible to disease than their "purebred" parents.  The one thing you can do is to lower your nitrate levels - that's about the only problem I can see.>
Many thanks again
John
<You're welcome. Get rid of those nitrates and you're fish you all likely be more healthy.  Best of luck, Jorie

Tank Crashed After Ich Treatment   12/21/06
Hello. I hope you can help me. I have a 55 gallon aquarium that recently came down with ich. Originally, it contained mollies, platies, guppies, Neons, other assorted tetras, and one Pleco that is about 12" long. Since we had the tetras, we were told we had to use a chemical known as Rid-Ich Plus to treat the tank because they could not handle anything stronger. After 8 days of treatments with this, they all died along with a good majority of the tank. We switched to Quick Cure. It was at this point that our levels in the water sky rocketed. Our nitrites actually were at toxic levels. We took a sample to an aquarium shop and they told us they had no idea how anything was alive in the tank. :( While treating with the Quick Cure, we were doing 50% water changes daily to attempt to fix the water levels. Which brings me to the new tragedy in a very long road for this poor guy. We have tested his levels daily and they are fine. He has developed a film over his eyes. I am told this was a protective layer his body created during the ich cycle which has scarred him for life and he will never see again. (It reminds me of cataracts.) I have also been told that this could be a bacteria infection.
He has blood under one of the capsules. I am guessing it is from him hitting his head when he would try to jump from the tank and hit his face on the hood of the tank. He also has red spots right above his dorsal fins that almost look raw. As if he needs anything further... he has white spots on him that would make me think he had ich, but the remaining 2 mollies in the tank do not show any signs of it and with everything else he is displaying... I am not sure that it is not fungus. Can you please tell me what is wrong with him and what is the best thing to do for him? Also, with the holiday we will be out of town for two days so I am not sure how that would affect any treatments that we would need to administer.
This tank is a month and a half old. It was originally set up as a pond, but we started the cycle over again when we changed the gravel. I thought you may need that information as well. I appreciate any help you can give me.
Have a wonderful holiday! Mikaelah
< The prolonged treatments affected the biological filtration and created deadly ammonia and nitrite spikes. Most of the fish were killed off directly with the fish that are left have been stressed by the treatments and the spikes. Unfortunately the Pleco has come down with a bacterial infection too. Let start by getting the tank stabilized. Do a 50% water change , vacuum the gravel and clean the filter. It would be best to place the Pleco in a separate 20 gallon hospital tank. Either way then, make sure the water temp is up to 83 F. Increase the aeration. Add a tablespoon of rock salt or aquarium salt per 5 gallons of water. The mollies will love this and it will make the Pleco develop a protective slime to fight the ich. Treat the tank with Nitrofurazone as per the directions on the package and the Rid-ich II. The next day do a 50% water change and treat again. Do not feed the sick fish. They will not eat and the food will rot and cause the spikes you had before. Do this for three days. If you are leaving then on the last day just do a water change. When you get back check on the fish. If everyone is alive and the infection has cleared up then add some high quality carbon for the filter to remove any left over medication. When the tank is cleared of any medication you can add Bio-Spira from Marineland and you tank will be cycled very soon. Then you can start to feed your fish again. New fish need to be quarantined before placing them in the main tank or this will happen all over again.-Chuck>

Ich and No Fish 12/11/06
Recently all 7 of our goldfish (2 of which were 2 years old) died.  I later had someone say that they probably had Ich.  Unfortunately, we didn’t know about Ich until it was too late.  My question is:  It has been 2 days since the fish were taken out of the tank and I am putting it into storage, can we save/reuse the filter, heater, and fake decorations that  were in the tank??  <Sure with proper cleaning.>  
Also, is there a special cleaner to scrub the aquarium with before we reuse it??  
<A mild bleach solution should do followed by a thorough rinsing.>
Thank you,
Theresa M.
<Chris>

Betta with ich; Betta placement in community tank  12/2/06
Hi Crew,
<Hello and welcome back!>
Once again I find myself returning to your comprehensive website - I have been reading through articles and FAQs, but am a little confused due to contradicting answers etc.
<Can happen.  Fish care, illness, etc. is not an exact science, but rather an "art" in the sense that some things can be accomplished differently...>
Yesterday I bought an extremely sick Betta from a pretty bad pet store. I know, not meant to buy sick fish - but he was cowering under a plant, and is absolutely covered with ich, and I thought that he would die for sure if left there, since the store was not treating and not even aware that their fish were sick! (There were even goldfish literally piled into a corner and resting on top of one another - very unnatural).
<You did a good thing, trying to save this poor Betta! At least now he's got a fighting chance...>
I have placed the Betta in a (previously cycled, though I suppose the medication will kill this)...
<Yes, generally medication kills a cycle>
...10 gal heated, filtered quarantine tank with a teaspoon of salt per 5 gals and ich medication - formaldehyde and malachite green.
<*Very harsh* medications - do keep a close eye on your Betta to make sure he isn't suffering ill effects.>
Even fed him some mosquito larvae from our pond, which he ate, and although he is absolutely covered in ich he is fairly active.
<Live food can transmit all sorts of parasites, diseases to fish; better to invest in frozen (and purified) bloodworms, or mysis shrimp, or even a quality pellet such as the ones made by Hikari or Spectrum New Life.>
Does all sound right so far?
<See above.>
Before purchasing this Betta I was planning on setting up a new Walstad style 20 gal planted tank. Before buying the Betta I was thinking of having a school of 6 Corydoras, possibly 2 Otocinclus, some fairy shrimp (I think these are native to Australia and grow to an inch long - not sure as I have been unable to find much information on them) and a few male and female guppies, which I wished to breed as I have never done this before. I was thinking of starting with 2 males and 6 females and going from there. Would it be possible to keep the Betta with this combination? I have read in your articles that Bettas are not compatible with guppies, but then in FAQs it was stated that pairing them with fancy guppies would be okay. Also, I was told on another forum that if I kept the Betta with this combination he would eat the baby shrimp and guppies and in effect be population control. What do you think? Am I courting disaster? If so with the guppies, would the Betta be okay with the other fish I mentioned?
<Honestly, in keeping Bettas in community tanks, so much depends on the Betta's individual personality.  Some are more aggressive, and may eat the shrimp and/or fry, and some are quite timid, and could be picked on by the sometimes aggressive male livebearers.  I personally choose to keep Bettas individually in 2-3 gal. heated and filtered tanks - provided with adequate decorations and plants, they seem to enjoy they little "fiefdoms".  Another consideration which has led me to the decision to keep Bettas singly is their love of warm tropical waters - 82 degrees F is ideal - and that's on the high-end of acceptable for many other tropical fish (and simply not OK for some species).  All the livestock you mention above should be able to tolerate water that warm, but again, it is on the high-end of the spectrum.  Were it me, I'd invest in a 3 gal. Eclipse for the Betta, and build my community aquarium without him.  You can certainly try what you are proposing, but I cannot promise success...
With regard to the Betta and ich, do monitor him closely for signs of medicine toxicity.  So long as he's eating and swimming, and you've said he is, then I wouldn't be concerned and would continue the course of medication according to the directions.  The salt should also help. Be prepared to do a complete water change if the fish starts suffering.  There are several non-medicinal alternatives for treating ich, one of which includes raising the temperature slowly (a degree a day)...this will speed up the lifecycle of the parasite (ich), and when used in conjunction with water changes, can effectively eliminate the problem.
Thank you for all your great information and help,
Emma
<Good luck with your Betta, and kudos to you for helping him! Jorie>

Goldfish with Ich - Treating w/ Heat and Salt - 10/18/06
Hi, Jorie.
<Hello again, Pam - sorry for the delay in replying...>
Okay... Here we go again.
<OK!>
1. Began 75% H2O changes daily as per your instructions.
<Wonderful.>
2. Medicated each day for 2 days w/no filter.
<As per the medication's instructions?>
3. Every third day, I put the filter back into the pump for 1 day, changed water and allowed to filter for 24 hours before medicating again.
<Again, hopefully you are following the instructions of the medication.  I do not know right off the top of my head what the dosages/times are, but I can tell you that if you are placing the carbon back in to remove meds, you should be doing a substantial water change at the same time...>
4. Finally was able to obtain liquid testing kit and have found ammonia levels to be WAY too high.
<Ammonia needs to be at ZERO.>
Fish is now gasping at surface for air. Did a 100% water change, rinsed gravel/the 1 plant in tank and rinsed/wiped inside
of tank. Refilled fresh H2O, tested 0 ppm ammonia. Replaced ichy fantail. Still gasping for air at surface.
<Some medications can remove oxygen from the water - try adding an airstone or two.>
5. Up to this point, the ich seems to be getting worse. More pustules have formed on tail fins, but no ulcers or slime on body. No discoloration of scales, fins, gills or eyes. However, she keeps trying to scratch on substrate and her appetite is diminishing.
<I would honestly try adding going w/o medication and adding salt/heat - see here: http://www.pondsandpumps.co.uk/artichparasite.htm . Also, look at the previous link I sent you.
6. The calico fantail which had no signs of ich has been in the main tank since your last email, and seems to be doing extremely well. Still no signs of ich.
<That's great.>
7. Ichy fish seems to be continually going down hill in this small tank. Should I just bite the bullet, put her in the main tank and treat for ich in a more comfortable environment?
<I wouldn't recommend it.>
I am now prepared to treat with heat/salinity so both fish wouldn't have to be exposed to the quick cure which doesn't seem to be doing anything anyway.
<Why can't you do heat/salt in the QT/hospital tank? So long as you do daily H20 changes (do make sure the new water has the same pH and temp. as the old...if not, this could also be adding to the fish's trauma...> Honestly, once you introduce the parasite into the main tank it will *always* be there...I know you want to do what's best for all the fish, but I do believe keeping them separate is the way to go.>  
Any info you could provide would be wonderful. Really worried about this fish.
<Am sorry, and understand how worried you are.  Was literally sick over my last sick fish.  I know the 1 gal. is small, but if I recall correctly, so is the goldfish now.  Increase oxygenation (add an airstone or two), get the rest of the medication out if you haven't already, and see the two articles re: salinity and heat as an ich treatment.  Continue w/ daily water changes - ammonia and nitrite must remain at ZERO.  Nitrate can go up to 20 ppm, but lower is better.  Also, don't overfeed - excess food in the tank will further pollute the tank.>
Thanks a bunch,
<Good luck- Jorie>
Pam B.