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Color loss in Kuhli loach 07/07/08
Hello there. I've been looking at your site, and you all really seem to know what you're doing with Kuhli loaches, which is rare. So I'm hoping you can help me. (I looked through the FAQ about Kuhli loaches, but the only case regarding loss in pigmentation didn't match mine.) But I digress. I have three Kuhli loaches in a 10 gallon tank with around fourteen Cory catfish of varying species (bronze, panda, peppered, and a few of those black-spotted white ones that there are dozens of subspecies of). It's a peaceful tank, and it's been healthy for a while, though last week I had one of the spotted catfish die.
<Note>
(The rest of the cories look fine though; I've noticed the white catfish seem to be a lot weaker for some reason; perhaps I should get some lighter gravel...) I'm not sure what killed it, but the rest of the fish seem fine; no spots, no rotted fins (quite the opposite, actually), no apathy. They've been doing a lot of courting rituals, in fact. I feed them fish flakes and sinking wafers and they all eat well. The pH is slightly alkaline (7.2), which is normal for my tank. The temperature is 76 degrees, though it can get as high as 80 when it gets humid up here. I've never had problems with the tank when I've put the AC on before, but now I'm starting to wonder, as the tank is very near it. But on to the loach (I tend to babble, I fear) himself. Archipelago is a he; I've had him and his sister Resin for about a year this august; he's grown long and lithe while she's slightly shorter and stockier.
<Typical>
I've noticed him being a little lighter the last few days, mostly when I turn on the light, which I don't find very strange, since all fish lighten when the light goes on. Today, however, I noticed he has gone from being a solid black with a pale orange belly to a pale, almost transparent grey. I thought he was dead until I saw him breathe. He isn't apethic; I dropped a few sinking wafers into the tank to see if he would spaz out like he usually does (he did) or only flutter and go back to lazing (as the deceased catfish had done). He resumed swimming around the tank and exploring with his brethren, and is currently on the other side of the tank, which they do when they're sick of me looking at them. But yes. The color change occurred extremely fast; within an hour or so, I think. I know that sounds ridiculous, but I'm certain he wasn't that light when I got home and fed them. I don't think it's a fungus,
<Mmm, no>
as the black pigment in his tail is still there. Unless it's just affected his whole body? I'm at a loss at what to do.... He's transparent now, and he never used to be anywhere near this light. I've had loaches that were this transparent, but they were always that way. They didn't suddenly turn transparent overnight. And I do mean transparent; I can see his spine, and all his organs. It's fascinating but worrisome. But yes. Have you ever heard of loaches turning lighter like this?
<Yes>
Like with age?
<Mmm, other causes>
'Cause usually they get darker.... I've had Salvador for two years he's absolutely velvety black, much darker than the other two or any I've seen (he's much longer too, I wonder if he's a different species).
<Could well be>
Resin has also gotten darker over time, and so had Archipelago. I'm wondering if it's stress from the AC changing the temp....
<A good possibility; at least a co-factor here>
I put in two drops of Methylene blue, though I'm hesitant to take out the charcoal and do a full treatment of the tank. I'm debating doing a water change, as I don't want to stress him more. I put a small pinch of salt in the tank; not much, I don't want to burn him or the others. Should I not worry?
<Good to worry a little... if this brings you to consideration, action ultimately>
This is just a distressing thing... He looks like a ghostloach.Thank you in advance for any help you can give me, and sorry for the long babbling email. Sincerely, noisebeast. P.S. I've included an MS Paint drawing of his change in coloration...I don't know how helpful it'll be, but I don't have a camera or anything, so I can't upload any pics. ._.
<A very nice rendering. Now... "stress" is the root cause here... either from the thermal mix, whatever led to or consequences of the Cory loss... I would do regular water changes (with stored water...), and look to moving these Loaches to their own systems... sans the Callichthyids. Bob Fenner>

Black Kuhlii Loach, comp. 6/7/08
Good morning, afternoon or evening what ever the case maybe.
<Morning here in England!>
Can Black Kuhlii Loach live in hard water with out suffering any health problem and be happy? Can one keep red cherry shrimp and Black Kuhlii Loach in the same tank?
<Kuhli loaches and most species of algae-eating shrimp get along just fine.>
or will one have no shrimp and fat happy loaches? I know the larger loaches would make a meal out of my shrimp but these guys don't get very big.
<You are correct that the "botiine loaches" (after the genus Botia to which may have been assigned at one time or another) will indeed eat shrimps and snails. But the loaches of the genus Pangio primarily feed on insect larvae, algae and organic detritus. They have relatively small mouthparts, and while they could eat newborn Cherry Shrimps, adults and even half-grown individuals should be fine. I keep Cherry Shrimps with small fish all the time, and while some baby shrimps might get eaten, Cherry Shrimps breed so fast when properly kept that you will still get lots of extra shrimps after just a few months.>
I ask because I just discover a small group of them in one of the 3 pet stores that exists near me and would love to own such interesting fish, but my red cherry were in the tank first and it would be unfair to put a shrimp hungry loach in with them.
<Indeed so. But in this case, I'd take the risk.>
The tank a 33 gallon tank that has a AquaClear power filter meant for a 40-70 US gallon Aquarium.... 40-70 just read the box one would think it be a bit weak for a 70 gallon tank mind you in a 33 gallon tank I have lovely current. So much so that the free duckweed that came with my red cherry shrimp didn't have a hope. Even with a filter bag over my intake to keep my filter from eating my baby shrimp my other plants rock back in forth in the watery wind.
<Don't put much (any) store by quotes on the filter packaging about how big an aquarium these can service -- like the "miles per gallon" ratings on cars, or the "servings per box" on breakfast cereals, these numbers bear absolutely no relation to the real world! Your safest approach is to choose a filter that offers not less than 4 times the volume of the tank in turnover per hour. So if you have a tank 33 gallons in size, pick a filter with 4 x 33 = 132 gallons per hour turnover. Simple as that. Anything smaller will become clogged too quickly, and you're likely to find water quality poor unless the tank is understocked. Both loaches and shrimps come from fast-flowing streams, so from their perspective, the more water current, the better. The subtropical shrimps we keep in aquaria (of which Cherry Shrimps are one species) are rather sensitive to low oxygen concentration, especially when the water gets much warmer than 25 C. Mind you, one tank I have on a windowsill goes as high as 30 C for a couple of hours during the summer months and the Cherry Shrimps there seem to be breeding happily enough.>
I would like to introduces a school of 6 Cory cats when my shrimp numbers fill out. Would be nice to be able to introduce all 6 at ones, but I am not sure if the tank could handle it with out going into a new cycle. How many do you think would be a good number to introduces at a time? The tank been cycle but with only shrimp in it the filter remains not very grate.
<Add Corydoras as a group, say 4 at one go, and then 2 more later on. Again, Corydoras seem to get on fine with Cherry Shrimps, especially if you pick the smaller Corydoras species like C. panda.>
The red cherry shrimp were to much of a pain to get to have them all eaten by a Peaceful fish... Peaceful so long as your not a snail or shrimp.
<Hmm... do check the Cherry Shrimps aren't dying for other reasons: I have found them to be very hardy. I started off with 4 about a year ago, and have something like a hundred now in two different tanks, plus any number that I've given away to other people. Mostly fish don't eat them; at least, not small fish like Cardinals, Limia, Bumblebee Gobies, Wrestling Halfbeaks, Whiptail cats, etc. Do review issues like medication (copper kills shrimps) and water chemistry stability. Shrimps are definitely things to add to a tank *after* it has matured for at least 6 months, since they feed primarily on micro-organisms that they find in the algae and detritus around the tank. They seem to do best in "messy" tanks with lots of plants, algae and things like that. Cheers, Neale.>

Are Kuhlii loaches compatible with red tailed sharks and clown loaches. 4/9/08
<Broadly yes. Potentially adult Clowns (30 cm/12") could eat small fish, but I've not heard of this happen. Red-tailed Sharks generally ignore tankmates that don't look like themselves. Do remember to keep Kuhlii loaches in groups: at least 4 specimens, and ideally at least 6. Otherwise they become very shy and you'll never see them. Cheers, Neale.>

Sick Kuhli Loach 1/28/08
Hi. I have a cycled 10 gallon planted with 4 wisteria, 2 Amazon swords, a micro sword, dwarf baby tears and duck weed which houses 2 Kuhlis and 4 narrow wedge rasboras. This tank has been operating for about 5 months. The loaches have been doing fine until Thursday last week. One loach is very dark and small- slender and in length. The other is large and perfect, just like you see in all the aquarium photos. There are hidey pots in the tank, but they don't use them much, prefer to be in the plant fronds or around the base or snuggled up together, so I get to see them quite a bit. Before leaving for the day I always do a check and look in on the fish. This day I noticed that the small loach looked sick....and I actually thought it was dead. It was ashen looking, and looks somewhat emaciated. I went to scoop it out but it swam all over the tank. I was behind by a few days (4) days on my regular 25% a week water change (last one was the prior Saturday), so I quickly did a water change with same temp Primed water hoping that was the only problem. At the end of the day, the ashen color on the body looked somewhat diminished. I just observed it over the weekend and noticed that a small part of the tail fin is missing, it is hiding more than usual, still looks emaciated and the ashen color seems to be coming back. I feed a pinch of flake food every morning, along with a few HBH frog and tadpole bites, maybe once a week I will throw in a few frozen but thawed blood worms. I try to supplement feeding of the pellets a second time at night, but not always. I was worried when I first got these fish that they weren't getting enough to eat, but they have been alive for about 4 months in my tank, so Im not worried about that anymore, and usually do a fast on Sundays. I have no idea what is happening to the loach, but its condition changed over a 24 hour time frame. One day it was hanging out with its buddy looking great, the next day it looked almost dead. Any idea?
Kristen
<Difficult to say without a photo. Male kuhli loaches are much more slender than the females. Where males look like worms, the females look quite robust, almost as if they'd swallowed a male! The body is often twice as deep as a male of similar length. On the other hand, if the thinner fish is losing condition, i.e., it's fins are ragged and it doesn't have great colours, then there may be something else at work. Diet is certainly one thing to consider. Are you feeding them enough? Do these fish have to compete with other fish? Kuhli loaches tend to lose out in busy community tanks. They are best kept as the only nocturnal bottom feeders -- i.e., they shouldn't be mixed with other catfish or loaches. Anyway, if you can send a photo, that would be great. Cheers, Neale.>

Re: Sick Kuhli Loach 1/29/08
Thank you for your reply Neale. I will try to get a photo but as I am sure you are aware, this can be quite hard.
<I bet. Sometimes the best approach is to net the fish, and photograph it at the surface.>
I don't want to move it until I decide it has to go into a hospital tank, just to ease any more stress on it.
<Agree; with social fish, you do need to balance quarantining something for medical purposes and the fact the fish won't settle down if its on its own.>
These two loaches are the only bottom feeders in the tank. It could be that they haven't eaten much, but Im pretty sure that with the food going into the tank, they are at least getting something.
<Sometimes easy to get this wrong. I'd try switching to a solid pellet thing, like Plecostomus algae wafers. Half one of these discs (each about the size of a penny) should be adequate. Because these things break apart slowly, they don't get sucked into the filter, and catfish and loaches have ample time to feed.>
The other loach (from your description, most likely the female) has not shown any signs such as this loachie is expressing. It might be in his best interest to simply move to a hospital tank... but then treat for what?
<I'd stick with upping/varying the food a bit.>
Internal parasites?
<Possible. You could try something like PraziPro to see if it helps.>
I don't think its Ich, none of the other fish are showing any white dots... except this loach, has white on its body.
<OK.>
It doesn't look like wet or dry cotton, it pretty much looks like lack of pigmentation. The skin seems to be sagging a little bit too, which
is why Im calling it emaciated looking. I will put it in a hospital tank tonight and try to get you a pic. Thanks.
<Look forward to seeing the pictures. Cheers, Neale.>

Re: Sick Kuhli Loach 1/29/08
Here are some photos of the sick loach. The ashen color between the stripes: this fish has always been a deep, dark brown color with white or creamish colored stripes. The photo looks washed out, but this is what this fish looks like now.
<This fish is emaciated but not otherwise (obviously) sick. It may well have a "Wasting Disease" including internal worms, so treating with PraziPro is definitely a good idea. But I'd also step up the food. This fish is in the sort of state where force-feeding might be required, but if its foraging normally, I'd simply use a solid pellet of food that lasts all night, and let it graze freely. Force-feeding small fish is very difficult to do safely, and does take a lot of care. I'm a bit worried about the gravel: Loaches are never at their best in tanks with coarse gravel, not least of all because if food sinks between the "stones", they can't easily get it out. Sand is the best for these fish.>
The head appearing larger than the body: emaciated. This fish has not always appeared to have a large head. The body in relation to the head is larger and this makes it appear emaciated. I have been caring for this fish for 4 months or more and was shocked by how skinny it looked, over night.
<Agreed.>
Its hard to see in great detail and I cant get any better photos at this time, but the tail piece missing. It looks as if a corner of it was just torn off.
<The tail damage could indicate it is being harassed by something in the tank, like nippy tetras or barbs or catfish. But given your stocking, that doesn't seem to be likely. Finrot is definitely on the cards though, so treating pro-actively, or at least being prepared to treat Finrot, would be sensible.>
The only inhabitants of this tank are the 2 loaches and 4 rasboras, and a couple of errant snails. No sharp edges in the tank. I added the sword plants about a month ago.
<The gravel looks plenty sharp.>
I feed them sinking frog and tadpole pellets every day, along with flake food and once a week throw in some blood worms, but I will try to get them something more substantial and see if that helps, too. Thanks
again for the response.
<Yeah, I think you need to beef up the diet. Algae pellets, catfish pellets, or about a half-cube of wet frozen bloodworms would be a good idea. Try putting the food on something like an up-turned peanut butter jar lid, so the food doesn't fall straight into the gravel. This is a trick seahorse keepers use, and once the fish figure out where the food is, it works pretty well.>
-Kristen
<Cheers, Neale.>

Re: Sick Kuhli Loach 1/29/08
Neale, thank you so much, again for all your wonderful suggestions. I am currently trying to locate some medication, so in the meantime, I
will get some algae wafers and a "dinner table" for them to see if I can entice the loach to eat more. I really have become taken with these
little creatures and now knowing that they were wild caught, I am inspired to do what ever I possibly can to keep them healthy. Even, I
guess, if it means getting a new tank with sand and getting them some more friends! :)
<Cool. All sounds like a good plan, and I'm glad you're enjoying the hobby. Sandy substrates are a great investment of time. They're cheap to do, and though a little work is involved, they can look amazing. There's an article somewhere at Wet Web Media called "Nice Bottoms" by my good self, and that's all about this topic. Cheers, Neale.>

Kuhlii Loach 1/16/08
Hello,
<Hi Jessi>
I recently purchased three small (about an inch and a half each) kuhlii loaches.
<Wow, tiny>
They seem healthy as far as feeding and activity levels, but I noticed last night as one did rested half of it's body vertically against the tank wall that it's gills seemed a little pink.
<Mmm, these little loaches do/should appear so...>
I'm wondering if that means they have some sort of gill irritation or if maybe it was just that the loaches are so tiny maybe they're a bit transparent and showed up pink.
<Yes, the latter>
I can only see this pink color when I view the loaches from below or can get a glimpse at their bellies. Otherwise their coloration seems normal. If this is something to be worried about, how should I treat it?
Thanks,
Jessi
<No need to treat. Cheers, Bob Fenner>

About Kuhli loaches and snails
Hi,
I have a bit of a snail problem in my 20-25gal tank. (size isn't 100% sure since it's not a standard tank) I pick out snails whenever I see them and I don't usually notice them much but sometimes it gets to be a problem. Also on my java fern which is in separate living quarters at the moment because of the education I am using) there are a ZILLION baby snails. (not surprising - I noticed several snail egg sacs on the fern when I moved it to its current quarters) I'm treating the separate bucket with had-a-snail. oh yes and I am currently treating the main tank with Coppersafe for Ich, which is supposed to be 'dangerous' to invertebrates but it doesn't seem to bother the snails at all! <Figures! But it may be doing a number on your filter. Please check for ammonia and nitrite spikes. Much better to QT fish for treatment and allow the tank to be fish free for a month. Treating the main tank can cause you more problems than snails.> (I am using a half-strength dosage to be gentle on plants, tetras and Otos)
Anyway I am concerned about this as the last thing I want is a big snail infestation. I'm wondering if Kuhli loaches might do the trick?
Obviously a clown loach would be the most effective, but I don't want to have to trade the fish back again as I live over an hour's drive
from the nearest pet store. Also I was reading your faq a bit and you guys mentioned zebra loaches - I've never seen one but they also sound
like a good option if I could actually find them.
<Hi, Don here. Please check the link below for an thread on this subject going on in the forum right now. Please feel free to join in. Aquabid.com is great for finding fish not stocked in most LFS. Of course with the price of shipping added in, it can be costly. Perhaps talk to the manager at a pet store. >
[l]http://wetwebfotos.com/talk/thread.jsp?forum=3&thread=23318&tstart=0&trange=30[/l]
Can you guys give any recommendations? a permanent, live in fish would be best. If the Kuhli loaches might do it (I have heard in a few
places that they may eat snails) I have had them in the past and I quite enjoy them :) If zebra loaches wouldn't get too big (the tank is
around 36 inches long and about 15 wide, and 10-12 deep, I don't recall exactly), and if I could find them, they seem like the best choice.
Thanks for any help you can give, your site has always been helpful :)
~Anna

Sick Kuhli Loaches
Thank you for considering my question. I actually have two which are related.
1) My local pet store used to be able to get healthy Kuhli Loaches all the time. In recent years (no matter the source) they arrive sick and the whole lot of them die. The symptoms are reddish gill area, then swirling, then they die. Any recommendations. We would love to be able to get some "new stock" in our area.
2) This is my main question, the first is background for what knowledge I do have. This morning I discovered one of my Kuhli Loaches is pinkish around the gill area. I have had my Kuhlis for quite a long time and have not introduced any new fish for - 6 weeks. What is my best bet for treatment? I don't want him to follow the same fate as those at our pet store.
<<Hello. Kuhli loaches are a problem lately in most stores. The stock is just not healthy anymore, and they seem particularly prone to bacterial infections and gill flukes. Stores can treat them with antibiotics, and if lucky, some may survive. Strong antibiotics will kill your nitrifying bacteria, though, so be careful! For you, I would recommend Melafix and salt (a teaspoon per gallon). Or you can try to find yourself some Maracyn Two, which is a safer antibiotic to use since it's relatively gentle, and not as much of a threat to your nitrifying bacteria when used as directed.
To prevent further Kuhli problems in your tank, maintain good water quality and do regular gravel cleaning. This will help keep the nasty bacteria levels in your substrate under control, which promote infections, and prevent anoxic areas from developing underneath your decorations and rocks. It's hard to vacuum using a regular siphon, since cutting your Kuhlis in half with the tube is always a possibility, so what I recommend is that move the decorations around, and you "sift" the gravel with your hands regularly to release the debris, and let your filter remove it. Make sure you have good water circulation, so the suspended debris is removed by your filter. If need be, you can add a powerhead to your tank for circulating the dirty water during this cleaning process. Then clean your filter floss and do a water change about an hour later.
Also, if you happen to see the solid black Kuhli loaches for sale, buy them instead. They are (thus far) much hardier, easier to keep, and just as entertaining. -Gwen>>

Loach Colored Loaches? - 11/02/2005
Hello,
<Hi.>
Can you please email me with the name of the fish I had when I was younger?
<Umm, I hope you've got a description?>
I am starting a new tank and wanted to get him again. He had the loach colors
<"Loach colors"? There are many species of loaches in many, many sizes, shapes, and colors....>
but was long and tubular like a worm, fast as hell and very good with other community fish. Have any idea what he is???
<Your description seems to be of a Kuhlii loach, http://www.fishbase.org/Summary/SpeciesSummary.php?genusname=Pangio&speciesname=kuhlii . Take a look here for just a few others: http://www.wetwebmedia.com/FWSubWebIndex/cobitids.htm , and here for many more: http://www.loaches.com/ .>
It's driving me nuts and Petco and PetSmart are no help!
<Hope this has shed some light.>
Thanks. -Angelo
<Wishing you well, -Sabrina>

Loach(?) ID 8/26/07
Hello I was just wondering if you could ID this fish for me
thanks Tom
<Hello Tom. That's a species of Pangio (formerly Acanthophthalmus). Collectively, Pangio spp. are known as Kuhli loaches. The orange-and-brown banded species (of which there are several) are the most commonly traded. Yours is one of the "unbanded" Kuhli loaches, quite possibly Pangio oblonga known in the trade as the Java loach. Basic care is identical to any of the other Kuhli loaches: soft sandy substrate, needs to be kept in groups of 3 or more, keep water temperature at or below 25C, keep tank securely covered, etc. Cheers, Neale.>

Loach ID, Kuhlis 7/25/07
Hi all, thanks for all the help in the past. I have a very simple freshwater question for you guys. I searched the FAQs and articles and couldn't find a definitive answer and the necessary page on loaches.com, conveniently, was down. It is long (5"-6") and serpentine like. He is pinkish in color with 4 'whiskers' around his mouth. My LFS called him a True Kuhli Loach but they have a bad history in correctly identifying fish. Could you please tell me what this guy is and if he needs any similar tankmates; I understand other types of Kuhlis need groups of 3 or more? Also after several hours of web searching I found that the same store had sold me a water bug and I believe it's a 'Dragonfly Nymph'; green, 1 1/2" long, big eyes and 6 legs. The same site mentioned nothing about these critters in captivity and that they are predatory towards small fish and insects. Non-coincidentally, I believe, one of my Glass Catfish had a an (eventually) fatal bite taken out of him near his organs. I'm leaning towards throwing him in the Cichlid tank if he keeps this up, is unsuitable for captivity, or I can't feed him reasonably. Or maybe I should quit being stubborn and setup a quarantine, but with Cichlid, Reef, Catfish, and Community tanks it would be quite an investment. I apologize as this was supposed to be a short letter, but with a pension for diversity there's always something to talk about!
Thanks in advance
-John
<Hello John. Identifying species of Pangio (the genus to which kuhli loaches belong) is difficult. There are around 30 species, many of which are very similar to each other and almost none of which are correctly identified by retailers. The problem for me is the size of your specimen: most kuhli loaches are very small, and even the biggest species in the genus, Pangio myersi, tops out at around 5"/12 cm according to Fishbase. And such big specimens are exceptional: around 4"/10 cm is much more typical. For this reason, I'm wondering if you don't have a species of Misgurnis. These are sometimes called weather loaches in the trade. They reach around 6-8"/15-18 cm in length but have the same snake-like build as kuhli loaches, though they are much more robust. They typically have mottled brown bodies but there are albino and golden varieties in the trade and you might have one of these. Alternatively, horseface loaches, Acantopsis spp., are also commonly traded. These are also quite a bit larger than kuhli loaches, but they have very distinctive long heads, uncannily like a horse's. The best thing to do is visit Fishbase and research loaches. Go here: http://filaman.ifm-geomar.de/Summary/FamilySummary.cfm?ID=127 and then where there is a link "Show Species" click on it and review the photographs presented to find something similar to your fish. As a general rule, all Pangio and Misgurnus are sociable, while Acantopsis run the range from harmless and fairly sociable through to territorial and waspish. Loaches in general are somewhat territorial, which is why only Pangio and Misgurnus have really made it in the hobby as community fish; even among the loaches formerly called "Botia" most are pretty mean animals, the Clown Loach being one of the rare exceptions. Now, Dragonfly nymphs are indeed highly predatory and cannot be kept with fish. That said, they are extremely cool animals, and far more interesting than most fish! They have amazing jaws and some varieties get very large indeed. I HIGHLY recommend setting aside a bowl or similar with some pondweed just for the nymph. They don't really care about filtration being adapted to stagnant ponds. Change some of the water every couple of days though. Add small water creatures from any ditch or pond outdoors from time to time. You can even hand feed them bloodworms using tweezers. Watching them catch the worm and then suck out the juices is quite something. They grow rapidly, and watching them metamorphose is truly a spectacle of nature not to be missed. Enjoy! Neale>

Sick kuhli loach 8/29/07
Dear Crew,
I purchased a Kuhli loach about a week ago. He didn't look terribly healthy to begin with, but I had him ordered and felt sorry for him. So now he's in a 10 gallon tank by himself. The water parameters are fine and the tank is 3 months old. He was sick to begin with, I had hoped to cure him but failed thus far. His symptoms are rapid breathing and whitish sickly looking patches on his skin, which don't appear to be fungus but more like a there's a gap between some surface layer and a subsurface layer, almost like a blister. I finished a 5-day course with both Maracyn and Maracyn II and he's about the same. I'm actually surprised he's still alive. Any suggestions?
Regards,
Michelle
<Hello Michelle. OK, the first rule is don't buy sick-looking fish. Now, given you have the fish, let's see what's going on. My guess is you have a fish with some sort of "slime disease". This a catch-all name for a variety of things. Basically you need to treat for an external bacterial infection and hope for the best. There are some medications designed specifically for slime disease, and those are the ones you want; things like API Erythromycin and eSHa 2000 should do the trick. If things still don't improve, saltwater dips can be very useful for clearing up slime disease. But loaches aren't terribly salt tolerant, so if you opt to supplement the slime disease medication with saltwater dips, be careful. Adding salt directly to the aquarium isn't recommend, either. Cheers, Neale>

Troubles with Ich   7/7/06
Hi,  Larry here.   My son started a FW 20g planted tank with Cardinals, Blue Rams, Thread fins and a Clown and Kuhli loach.  Unfortunately the clown loach had ich.
< Common problem with this fish.>
We treated with Maracide which is basically Malachite green as directed on the bottle and the ich disappeared for a few days only to come back.  So we retreated 2 more times and the ich has returned.  We raised the temp to 82F and switched to Quick cure which is M.Green and formalin and have had no luck in effecting a cure.  The tank uses a Fluorite gravel.  Do you think the Fluorite is absorbing the malachite?
< No but any organics would absorb this medication.> <<Could easily be. RMF>>
The water does not stay blue green very long.  Our plants by the way have done very well through all this. We have now moved all the fish to a 29g QT tank that I normally use for my Marine fish.  We are now treating with Cupramine copper.  Now how long do we have to leave the 20g fallow before we can put our fish back into the tank?
< At 82 F the ich parasites need a host. They will die in 7 days without a host fish.>
I was also thinking about treating the 20g tank with Epsom salts as I have read in WWM FAQ's that this can be effective, what's your opinion on this?
< Salt increases the slime coat on the fish and make it more difficult for the parasite to get established on the fish. You don't want to add too much because this will also increase the slime coat over the gills and prevent the fish from breathing properly.>
We also have an African frog and some Japonica shrimp which have survived the Malachite and formalin much to my surprise.  It is my understanding that they do not act as hosts or reservoirs for ich.  Will they be ok if we treat the tank with Epsom salts and what dose do I use?
< I think your problem is that you don't let the medication stay in the water long enough. If I had ich in my tank I would do the following. Raise the temp to 82 F. This makes it more difficult for the parasite to survive because at higher temps, water has less holding capacity for oxygen. Secondly I would do a 50% water change. This automatically removes 50% of the free swimming parasites. Third I would clean the filter and remove any carbon. Fourth I would vacuum the gravel to remove any organics and make any medication more effective. Then I would treat with Rid-Ich by Kordon. It is a combination of malachite green and formalin. Follow the directions on the package. I would add a teaspoon of rock salt per 5 gallons of aquarium water. The ich should be gone for good in a week. Now to prevent any further outbreaks I would get a quarantine tank. No fish goes into the main tank without a minimum two week quarantine period. Much easier and cheaper to medicate in the QT tank.-Chuck>
What a frustrating mess,  I have a 120g FOWLR marine tank that I tore down because of battling ich for over a year thanks to a blue tang that I FW dipped and QT for 2 weeks.  Thanks for the advice and all the wealth of knowledge that the WWM crew supply.
Larry, basking in the sun in Minnesota! <<... need to remove the shrimp, frog... and I'd raise the temp. to the mid to upper 80's F. RMF>>

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