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Nitrates in a planted tank...
grammar checking, rdg. 3-11-08
i have a 20 gallon long planted tank . I am running 2 filters a marine land
bio wheel rated for 20 gallons and a eheim rated for 30 gallons .The tank
contains one angle fish four phantom tetra four Cory cats and a couple of oto
cats .i am not sure how many are left . I am having a real hard time lowering my
nitrates . I have been doing a couple water changes a week with no effect on
these levels . is there something else i can do . also is it possible that my
test kit is bad i have had it for over two years
<... read here: http://wetwebmedia.com/FWSubWebIndex/fwnitrates.htm
and the linked files above... Bob Fenner> News on Iron pills in planted tank
Dear WWM Crew,
A few months ago I asked whether or not it was a good idea or feasible to use
iron pills in the substrate of a planted tank.
<Can be... if useful, have propitious water chemistry...>
Below is a copy of my e-mail with your replies. I recently discovered that you
had posted my inquiry on your website (link is below)
http://www.wetwebmedia.com/PlantedTksSubWebIndex/majmicrnutrfaqs.htm
Which is great, but I have news that may be of use to your readers.
<Spiel on!>
Shortly after I heard from you, I went ahead with the experiment and placed some
iron pills in the substrate. Since then I have found that my plants stay green,
and I rarely if ever need to dose iron water (Seachem) to the tank.
<Yes, not always a rate-limiting material>
I have posted my success/discovery on www.barrreport.com (link is below)
http://www.barrreport.com/co2-aquatic-plant-fertilization/2552-iron-pills-my-experiment.html
Please post this information on your site as I am very excited about it and
would like to spread the news for all of those who are interested or may be
looking for similar information.
Sincerely,
Jocelyn Staskus
<Well done... I do like the mention of gluconate, DTHP binder... Bob Fenner>
Planted tank fertilizing question 8/6/06
Dear Crew,
My tank is constantly in need of iron, and recently the plants have developed
strong signs of potassium and manganese deficiency as well.
<Mmmm...>
I was wondering if buying iron pills and placing them in the substrate would be
a more cost-effective way of dosing iron to the plants.
<Not likely... Need to discern what is "taking up" these essential materials,
what in your water quality may be of influence...>
Would this also work for the potassium, manganese, and any other nutrients that
happen to be needed?
<Mmm, dangerous to "just add" one or more such material... can dun and
accelerate the effects of other materials... You don't want imbalances to be
induced here>
I bought some iron pills, but they don't just have iron in them and I wanted to
know if the other ingredients would:
1) Affect whether or not I should use the pills to dose at all (are they 'safe')
<Not likely. I would not use these under any but experimental conditions>
2) Limit how much should be dosed to the tank
<Yes, somehow>
The pills are "Nature Made" Iron in 65mg tablets. The ingredients are listed as:
Ferrous Sulfate, Cellulose Gel, Dibasic Calcium Phosphate, Croscarmellose
Sodium, Hydroxypropyl Methylcellulose, Titanium Dioxide (artificial color),
Magnesium Stearate, Polyethylene Glycol, Triethyl Citrate, Polysorbate 80,
Sodium Citrate.
<Mmm, don't see anything here that is outright toxic... As stated, this might
act as some kind of scientific endeavour... with the absence of desired fishes,
invertebrates... and testing>
Also, is there a list anywhere saying what not to put in your tank (chemical
wise)?
Thank you!
-Jocelyn
<There are exhaustive materials on planted aquariums, fertilization, chemical
supplementation posted on the AGA's site: "thekrib.com".... I encourage you to
read there, devise either to make your own or purchase their PMDD formulation,
look into what about your system and water make up (as well as possibly
livestock) that may be making these metals limited... rather than going ahead
with the use of these pills. Bob Fenner>
Phosphate in Freshwater Aquaria 7/3/06
I'm aware that phosphate has some major negative factors in marine aquaria.
However, I've never seen any information on its impact on freshwater
aquaria. I have a 75 gallon planted discus tank and currently my
phosphates are running at about 1ppm. Should I be concerned?
<Soluble phosphate in freshwater can be problematic, but as you point out, along
with the general statement/understanding of the effects as graded by
size/stability of environments, the worlds oceans are far more stable
chemically, physically (biologically...)
than even the largest, oldest freshwater... Still, not hard to "overdrive"
photosynthesis (mostly algae problems) with too much HPO4 present. I would do
what is reasonable (start with filtered source water, likely RO... Use chemical
filtrants, utilized live plants for purposeful uptake...) to remove excess
phosphate... In most settings this would be most any detectable quantity, but
somewhere below 0.1 ppm is likely a good target. Bob Fenner>
Planted Aquarium Problems, mainly fert. 7/1/06
Dear Crew:
<Des>
I have been a fish hobbyist for several years, but have only recently tried my
hand at a planted aquarium.
<A wonderful part of our hobby interest, eh?>
My 29 has one of those standard hoods you get from a pet store (fluorescent),
and I am not exactly sure of the wattage (I can't look because I am not at
home!). But it is a
full-spectrum florescent,
<May want to add a fixture, lamp...>
and the water in my tank is soft. I use RO water, along with a product called
Instant Amazon. I do not use any fertilizers, because I have Cory cats, and many
ferts have copper in
them.
<Ahh!>
I was using a product with iron in it, which my crypts loved, but once I got my
Corys I had to discontinue it since it had copper. I then
switched fertilizers to something called Leaf Zone (an aquarium buddy
recommended it- he has great luck with his Vallisneria using it), but my
Cryptocorynes did not like it so much and immediately began melting away.
Horrified, I quit using it, and they slowly came back out of it.
So, now I use nothing, and my Vallisneria is beginning to split at the tops of
the leaves. I do not know if this is from lack of nutrients, too
high of water flow on it.... I would love to find a fertilizer that does not
harm my crypts or Corys, which seem to be the most sensitive things in my tank.
<Read about PMDD ("Poor Man's Dupla Drops") on the Krib (.com), and consider
adding some tapwater back in with your water changes>
I have fluorite mixed with a fine gravel for my substrate.
The plants in my tank are as follows: Vallisneria, red crypt., green crypt, an
oddball crypt that is green with a broader stalk and leave than my others, a red
Ruben sword, a ulvaceus bulb, and an Anubias nana (which just bloomed!). My red
Ruben has also been getting small holes in the leaves, and then they
consequently turn brown and start to
deteriorate once they are about three inches in length. I do not know if my
snails are the culprit for that...
<Possibly, but could be just a limited supply of alkaline earth elemental
material>
I never see any of my snails on my plants, just my driftwood that has a little
algae growth. But my snails are Ramshorns and.... I can't remember the name...
they have a gold shell
and red body... But, if you guys have any suggestions, I would greatly
appreciate it. I love my planted tank, and would like to find out what
is going on. Thanks so much!
Desirae
<Mmm, have you read through our Planted Aquarium Subweb:
http://www.wetwebmedia.com/PlantedTksSubWebIndex/AquariumGardenSubWebIndex.html
I would, re Lighting, Light Fixtures, Fertilizer... and the associated FAQs
files. Bob Fenner>
Adding Flourish To A Planted Tank 12/17/05
Thanks for the help. Just to clarify Flourish Iron adds Iron,
Flourish Excel
http://www.seachem.com/products/product_pages/
FlourishExcel.html is a form of Carbon. What do you think? Thanks
< Not the same. I love SeaChem Products but I don't think the carbon is as
easily and readily absorbed as CO2 gas.-Chuck>
Plant Supplements and Shrimp - 04/04/2005
I've been using Kent Freshwater Plant Supplement in my 5.5 gallon aquarium and recently bought a few algae eating shrimp (I believe they're the
Amano something type).
<Likely Caridina japonica, "the" algae-eating or "Amano" shrimp.>
I noticed that this supplement contains (min) .00001% copper as well as .24% chelated iron. I've been using a little lower dosage, just in case, but I was wondering if these metals would
adversely affect my shrimp...
<Having wondered the same thing myself, and having used similar supplements on my planted tanks with shrimp, I feel safe in saying that I really doubt that the supplement you are using, at or below the recommended dosage, will cause the shrimp any harm. I think your shrimp ought to be just fine.>
...and would the use of iodine supplements improve the situation?
<YES! Oh, yes. Absolutely, yes. I use Kent Marine iodine at a rate of ONE DROP per TEN GALLONS every week. For your little tank, you could do one drop every two weeks. DO NOT use the marine dose printed on the bottle.>
Oh! I was also planning on putting some Triops in there (although I don't know if you folks know
a lot about them)
<I sure do! I *love* Triops!>
and was wondering whether they would eat the shrimp, the shrimp being about 1.5 or 2 inches long.
<.... I don't think they would. I certainly can't guarantee anything, but I don't think they would. You might try getting a couple of el-cheapo shrimp (like ghost shrimp, often sold as feeders) and put those in with the Triops - if the Triops don't eat them, the japonicas should be safe. I've always wanted to put Triops in one of my tanks; I just need to hatch a few more. Awesome little boogers, aren't they??>
Thanks a bunch for your help!
<You bet. I have great interest in hearing how things go with the Triops. Please do let us know how it works out, and how well they do in the tank! Thanks, and good luck! Wishing you and your adorable inverts well, -Sabrina>
Hydroponic Plant Fertilizers - A Little Capitalization/Punctuation,
Please?
I was wondering if you could give a few suggestions on the use of
Hydroponics nutrients into the freshwater aquarium to keep plants healthy.
<Will try>
I was told by my good friend, who has the best looking jungle aquarium that I've
ever seen and very green, that he uses NO CO2, keeps light
at 1w per gallon for 12 hours a day, doesn't spend ONE DIME on any of the
so-called Aquarium Fertilizers and says they are only high priced copies of what
he is using. Diluted down by the barrel load and making the fert companies
millions. He claims that with all his tank, and he raises fish and plants, that
he was spending thousands of dollars on commercial fertilizers from Kent and had
a scientist friend of his dissect their products and found the same thing in his
plant solutions, so he duplicated it and added iron?
<Possibly... the formulations for "aquarium plant" fertilizers are known,
available (see "the Krib" re)>
He takes all the separate nutrients and eyedroppers them into the tank on a
daily basis and says this works just fine. He has never lost a fish from this
and the only two fish he lost in two years were ones that came from the pet shop
and didn't survive the first week. Would appreciate your opinion on this.
JB
<Can indeed be done... in a nutshell, the nutrients for these plants are
identical to "hydroponic" plants... but not in the same concentrations as the
latter... the careful slow addition (daily, dropper) WITH testing (for phosphate
likely as an indicator) should be able to yield good results. Bob Fenner>
Amazon Sword plants with Black Fungus, PMDD?
Bob & Crew,
Thanks again. I'll hold off on the plant nutrient for now. BTW, I did do a PMDD a few days ago for $25. I did not
fill out the "tell them who paid" form as I figured that was not important. Just so you know I wasn't expecting
a free lunch .. . the assistance is valuable to me.
Hope that is OK; please let me know if that does not seem equitable to you.
Cheers, Dave
<Mmm, was referring to "Poor Man's Dupla Drops"... the formulation on "the
Krib"... a great DIY faux reformulation of the Dupla product... Bob Fenner>
Iron in a Plant Tank
Hi Bob (or whoever is on duty)
<Sabrina today, hi, Ken>
Happy New Year to all:
<And to you, as well!>
I have a question that is driving me nuts.
<Hopefully we can help you out a bit, then!>
My 75g heavily planted tank has been running a couple days short of 7 weeks.
Plant growth is good and hair algae is minimal. I started dosing small amounts
of Seachem Flourish and their Iron (as well as potassium) a couple weeks ago.
The test kits still show unmeasurable for the amount of iron in the water. How
"fast" can I add iron to get to the target area without getting algae,
or won't this affect it?
<It shouldn't affect algae, provided you don't go over the amount of iron
your plants need/will use, as the plants should take it up before the
algae. It is quite possible to overdose in iron, so it is important
to continue testing for it as you add.>
Also I was advised by Seachem as well as a couple of the online plant dealers
not to add nitrate and phosphate as the plants will get enough from the fish and
I will have algae issues if I do.
<This is possible. Again, if you test for these, if they do show
as present on your tests, you probably do not need to add.>
Right now I have 7 SAE's, 12 Otto cats, 6 lemon tetras, and 6 cherry
barbs.
<Sounds like fun!>
Ammonia, nitrite, nitrate, and phosphate are all zero. Ph= 6.8, GH= 7, KH=4. I
use pressurized CO2 and have 260 watts on 75g tank.
<Mmkay, you might want to dose nitrate and phosphate, but you indicated that
hair algae was "minimal", which makes me think there is some there, so
you'll probably want to hold off for a bit while the plants continue to take
off.>
I appreciate any help you can give as I hear so many conflicting things that I
am afraid to do anything.
<There really is a huge amount of conflicting advice/information out there,
that's for sure. But don't be afraid - sift through the information
you find, decide what is right for your tank, and go for it. If
you're at all interested in some great plant reading, there are a number of
good plant books available now that will probably be a great help in figuring
out what to do. In fact, the book "Aquarium Plants" by
Christina Wassermann, has been translated to English and is now available
(though *quite* expensive, perhaps prohibitively so), and there is always Pablo
Tepoot's "Aquarium Plants: The Practical Guide, and a more recent book
"Encyclopedia of Aquarium Plants" by Peter Hiscock (no, I'm not making
that name up....). There are also the "Nature Aquarium
World" books by Takashi Amano, which are basically astounding photography
of even more astounding aquariums - and even better, all the details on what
makes them run, even down to a count of bubbles of CO2 added. You'd
probably *really* enjoy these!>
Thanks for your help. Ken
<Sure thing. Wishing you and your plants
well, -Sabrina>
Re: Plant Vitamins
Thanks SO much Ronni-
<You’re very welcome>
did a water changed, scrubbed down the driftwood and cleaned off plants and
water looked good- unfortunately the Hygro sun is still weak- looks yellow and
disintegrates and the Bacopa is still same- but will wait it out. The problem
might have been the bottle of Flourish I was using. On instinct I threw it out
and opened another, and the liquid was a light, pale green- my old bottle was a
dark, murky green. So maybe it was on the shelf too long (I do refrigerate)
<Very possible.>
But maybe you can help me with a simple (hmmm) plant nutrient question. Today I
noticed that the really cool dwarf onion plant which has been holding it's own,
the TIPS are yellow- not the nice dark green. I DON'T GET IT (can you tell I'm
annoyed!)
<Are they mushy or just slightly yellow? I have the larger onions in my tank
and the tips are always more yellow than the rest of the plant so this may be
fairly normal. I never worried too much about it because mine always grew to
several times the “normal” height of these plants (at one point they were
5’ tall!). So if they aren’t mushy or disintegrating I would just watch
them.>
I spend $$ to get SeaChem Fluorite substrate, cleaned the stuff for hours to
sift out most of red- and even with poking around when I clean tank still gets
red for a while. I bought iron tab supplements, and still, plants get yellow-
maybe it's not the light, maybe low IRON? Does low potassium make leaves turn
yellow?
<This I’m really not sure about.>
I've never tested before and I know that Kent Pro Plant and Flourish are suppose
to make up for nutrients, but obviously something is not good. What do you use
in your tank setup- the pics you send me were awesome?
<Thanks for the compliments! I’ve never added anything to my tank for the
plants and am only using crushed granite for a substrate so really I think
I’ve just been lucky. I am battling a hair algae problem now too though. In
the past week the stuff has been trying to take over my entire tank. I’m still
trying to figure out why since nothing has changed.>
Someone on your web talked about Dupla or Dupla 24 for fertilizer_ any good?
Please help, otherwise, I have no idea why plants and not doing well.....
<I’ve never used it but I have heard several people mention it. You know…
if you have a reputable plant store in your area you might want to call them and
see what they recommend. I’d look specifically for one that carries pond
plants and accessories since they’ll know a bit more about dealing with
planted fish systems. Just a thought. One other thing you can try for the algae
problem, and forgive me if it sounds strange, but get a small handful of barley
straw, stick it in a nylon stocking or other filter media bag, and place it in
your filter or somewhere in your tank where the water has to pass thru it. I
don’t know if it will help eliminate the algae but it’s something that was
recommended to me by a pond keeper. They use straw to help control algae and
eliminate green water.>
Rosa *bit grumpy, so excuse me*-
<Cheer up, you’ll get thru this stage and have a beautiful tank again!
Ronni>
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