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New WWM Fan Thank you so very much for the information. I hope you can post our letters so that others can view this information as well. I am so relieved to hear it is normal. I will tell anyone I hear in need of information to check out your website. You are awesome!!!! Many happy thanks, Jamie < You are welcome. That is why we are here.-Chuck> Re: Conflicts of inputting, saving on WWM <Thank you for this Steve. This is EXACTLY what we're talking about. I ask that all sign off WWM for an hour as of now. Bob F, backing up WWM just in case> Anthony and I worked out a system so that we are not both answering questions at the sametime. Right after I log onto Hotmail, I send Bob an email. There is no text, just the subject that I am answering questions now. I leave it in the general box unread. That way if Anthony or Bob log on that is one of the first things they see or vice versa. When I am done, I just delete that email. Not exactly what you guys are talking about, but thought I should mention it anyhow. Steven Pro RE: WWM Pandora > I really do enjoy html. <<Yeeikes>> All right, you're crazy, I knew it. > I tend to write html in Notepad or other text based writers Crazy as me, in fact. (of course, I'm a programmer by profession) I have a great editor for you... > I have Photoshop 5.01 & Flash 4.0 (I know they are a version or so old, but upgrading is EXPENSIVE!!!), We can take care of that, if necessary (likely not). > previously used ColdFusion for a project, and mildly understand dynamic databasing via web WWF uses Java Servlets/JSP/WebMacro and a MySQL RDBMS backend - same concept, different language(s). > I also understand E-commerce and Networking We'll soon have a 'shopping cart' for images off WWF, so art directors can buy and download straight off the site. > (Sidenote: I received a dual MBA in Finance and Information Systems from MSU in May 1999). Not that this is meant to be a resume or anything. Do you know anything about LLCs and such? We're working on gelling some kind of 'formal/legal' organization to wrangle the collective 'financials' of WetWebMedia. <<Thank goodness>> > I know I only briefly met you & Bob at the MASM meeting, but I think that if nothing else, I could help out some I think you could too, and from your posts on the forums, and from our email discourse, I can see you're no dummy. > ONLY disclaimer that I have is that my wife is due to have our baby girl at the end of April. Steve & Debbie have a similar, uh, predicament... ours (boy) was born 6 years ago, so he's a little more self-sustaining. <<Mmm, the promise of tomorrow... if you can get enough sleep>> > Depending on when this actually happens may/will have an impact on any projects that I'm in charge of, especially if they are due right around the same time. So you're not the sort to 'induce' eh? Good for you two. Anyway, there are no 'due dates' in our projects, just the urgency of "Aquarists need this ASAP" and "There is money out there to pay for travel, dives..." -Zo <<I'll say... BTW all, some of the troubles/solution re FP2k and todays slow downs... Am on the line with Datapipe as we read/key (our Webhost)... and they're running the "recalc. hyperlinks" operation... and it is/was taking a very long time... and am given to understand that we'll have to do give them a call... to do it again... and the FP2002 upgrd, chgs are no better s'posedly... MY head is hurting now... got our options from the fine folks at Datapipe... we can upgrade to where we're sharing our server with only about twenty others (instead of 150) for about a hundred dollars a month... or go to a designated server status for $300 per... or to Jas... We're at about 180 megs now... and a royal pain in the buttola to recalc... can't do it on my end at all... Options, Suggestions? Bob F, who says the site is fixed for now... have to call DP in about a month...>> New, much larger WW sites... incomes All, talk about confusing... have gone the beginning of Oz route and started making subwebs... link to the new Pond Index beginning here: http://www.wetwebmedia.com/ponds.htm Yes, click on link and you will find another starting set of different Sponsor Link/Logos. Bob F Yesterday, WWM WWM Crew, we had the most of about all types of participation on WWM ayer... 5,376 unique ISP sessions, more pages per visit, time on line, folks visiting from other countries... the analysis site: stats2.datapipe.com and the password name WetWebMedia. Amazing. Bob Re: Top 10 Marine Faq's Last question...promise! Would it be best if I send 1 or 2 to you, as completed, or the whole thing at the end? B-- <Mmmm, a very trick/y question... Best would be for you and your magnificent work to be simply placed on WWM... but if you'd like, send same along to me... or Jas... or Mike... and we'll place. Thank you Barb. Bob F> Re: WWM banter on Dailies The FAQ's should focus on fish questions from aquarists. If you wish to have a forum to voice your opinions, create a general forum section. <Thank you for this. Bob F> My two cents. Diana tobeplacedFAQs on WWM I've just taken a look at http://www.wetwebmedia.com/tobeplacedFAQs.htm and this contains mostly the content from my stint as mail-dude back in December. Here's my question: <What the? I thought I had found, "emptied" all these... will parse this one out today...> 1. Is this the only such document out there, or does anyone know of another? 2. If these particular FAQ's are still here, does this mean they have not been placed at all? <Likely yes... If I had moved them out, would have deleted contents of file/page...> Either way, I'll get to work on this, I just don't want to do duplicate work. Questions - comments? <When will you do this Jas? Don't want to have overlapping activity per file/pages... Bob.F> J -- yo yo (fixin' the ole HTML) Let me know when you go online this morning so I can give you a call - I've noticed a trend in FrontPage, and I think I can help fix a "weird-ism" <Am t/here now. Want to show me/Miguel how to make a template "Frame" for new non-shared borders for some of the indices? Bob F> J -- http://www.wetwebmedia.com/links.htm Miguel et al. Whatcha think of this look for the new Links Pages Index on the old/now General Links Page? Made the new Links Pages (they're physically linked on the Nav. View to the Indices Pages... along the Top Pages... Will start copying/pasting and filling in... Miguel will spiff up, add links in turn... This work in turn toward expanding the various parts of WWM, separating the sponsor/advertising... Bob F Links and trips Bob, Great idea, it looks good. I'll start sorting the links out, finding more, and fixing up the look of the new pages. Regarding the trip in May, I got the time off from work, May 8th through the 22nd or 23rd. I'm looking forward to it and many more adventures with all. <YAY! Wish you could make the Aussie trip as well... maybe next year, or month, Mr. PTO! Bob> Mike publishing endeavors <Have (tried to) put together book-length works on ADBE PM6.5 (up to) and can be done... or we can bite the big one and learn Quark (or QE) if need be..> 3 years and two employers back, I spent a year as 'Art & Technical Director' at a promotional products printing/fabrication company. I learned a deep distaste for QuarkXpress, a healthy respect for those who really know it, and did all my own (and the shop's) work in Pagemaker/Photoshop/Illustrator. Some of the artists insisted on Macromedia products. Since those guys are hard enough to manage, I let them have their fav tool. For book-length projects, Framemaker is the flagship - not that I'd use it myself. Pagemaker has my vote, I'm definitely most comfortable in the Adobe environment. <Mmm, and mo' Zo> In any case, I'll be happy to help out however I can, though I don't want to lose focus on WetWebFotos. <Not a worry... at least on my end... All is one focus to me... and with the funds as in Moolah, species, Obera I hope to generate for all, we can go on to having more, better, excellent adventures. You'll see. Bob F> -Zo Reporting for duty! ;-) <Who will gather the most common FAQs for each category (fresh, reef, pond...)? Any volunteers? BobF> If still needed, I will compile a list of FAQ's for marine area...heck, they're the ?'s I first bothered you with way back when! <<YAY!>> <Mmm, I have "more work" questions for you... Am again considering self-publishing a couple of book titles... Want/need help with editing, lay-outs... Now that you've become more than familiar with my (lack of) writing style... "you're it" (as we used to say in tag games as kids). What do you think?> Going to keep plugging away at transfering data from wwm to wwf but have some time, much willingness and definite desire to see these titles in print. So, bring it on, Bob! Would love to help in this area, so now you're it! <<And this bit will likely be "pay for" directly! Thank goodness>> Have to get back to wwf before Zo finds out I took a 15 minute espresso break! lol BTW, still curious what part of Sicily Di's family hails from? <<Will send this along to her for response. Be keying! Bob F> Take care, Barb-- Email Addresses Bob, WWM Gang (Thanks Zo...) "anything" sent to the readingtrees.com addy gets relayed to the 'readingtrees at yahoo dot com' address that I use for all mail daily. The prefixes (like BOCP1, Readingtrees, Sales, anthonycalfo, etc.) just help me sort daily for priority. So you can really have fun by sending mail to the book site addy to see if I'm paying attention... like "snapperhead at readingtrees dot com" or "catboy at readingtrees dot com"... make some good stuff up. However, if it is easier for your address book... simply "anthony at readingtrees dot com" will be fine <G>. It all gets relayed to yahoo. I remember you were talking about us possibly getting WetWebMedia addys. If and when that is convenient, I'll be happy to roll with it. Just tell me where and when to go (hehe... regarding the e-mail). Ciao, bubs. Anthony PS: Bob... will you look over the cc list of this message to see if anyone is missing that should be included in the WWM loop from my address book (is there another Mike?). We want to make sure that we aren't missing anybody in the deluge of mail...hehe. <Here's my current (and growing) email list for WWM Crew: Mike K. <mwk819 at yahoo dot com> Diana Fenner <dianafenner at hotmail dot com> Jason Chadadowski <jasonc at hyperworx dot com> Peter Caterrick <jabulani47 at hotmail dot com> Bob Fenner, oh, BobFenner at WetWebMedia dot com> Re: link permission (but wait, there's more!) >On an unrelated point, does the WWM site have any representation of >what the pages in *your* aquarium log books look like? I've finally >started keeping logs, but they're still an inconsistent mess. ><Do you mean a sort of site map? No. No, no, no, no, no, no. No. I'm talking about keeping records of the water parameters, water changes, livestock addition/removal, treatments, etc. all kept over time for a specific aquarium. <Ahh> My record keeping is pretty poorly organized. Without consistent layout, I doubt that I'll be able to look for patterns over long periods of time. I was hoping that you had a picture or graph (or downloadable spreadsheet or database) of a time-tested page layout for. -rb <I see... will have to work on these. Good idea... have seen "forms" in books over the years. Bob Fenner> New Links Pages Miguel, do you want to have a go or shall I at re-doing the WWM Links pages? I'd like there to be one per index... and leave the current one as a "general index"... and make a (yes, another table!) box under the title of the current one with more... boxes! listing the new indices as links... with your or new images... Oh, and searching on the Web for other sites input on what to link. What say you? Bob F Re: link permission (but wait, there's more!) Sankyu. ><Note: ... make "policy stmt" re use of materials for homepage...> "EGG-cellent...Bob. Can I call you 'Bob?'" <Certainly... after all, it is my name> And a very quick response, I might add! >don't know if/that Jules or Mike have such sites. Will send along >your query and add theirs as links if so> Arigato. <Don't touch my mustache, dotashi mashiite> >That, and a photo of a six-line wrasse would have been nice too. : > ) ><Please see here: http://www.wetwebmedia.com/pseudocheilinus.htm> Domo arigato. <You're welcome> >>offering of the Golden Cleaner Wrasse, Hawaii - Labroides > Will send your note off to: Ken Wong at Marine Depot, the WWM Crew >to get cracking on devising the separate Pond Index/Site, publisher >James Lawrence of now Microcosm/TFH, myself to make copious >notes...> Arigato gozaimasu - for forwarding my concerns on to more folks who are in positions of greater influence than I. Knowing that the little "stink" that I raised has just been magnified and given new momentum, is a rare exception in a field that usually leaves one feeling like little more has been accomplished than shouting at the wind. <Indeed> You know, I wrote "*my* concerns" above, but I wouldn't have had a clue about the importance of Marine Depot's offering if it hadn't been for your book. <Ah, the pleasure> On an unrelated point, does the WWM site have any representation of what the pages in *your* aquarium log books look like? I've finally started keeping logs, but they're still an inconsistent mess. <Do you mean a sort of site map? The public view is sort of like what we call "Indices" (tables of contents, ordered lists by category: marine, ponds...). The Navigation View within the system is much larger, involved... an ongoing work in progress, effort to keep, build all orderly, aid in helping the WWM crew get around there> Domo arigato gozaimasu. -rb <Thank you my friend. Bob Fenner> P.S. If necessary, please forgive the possibly inappropriate use or unintended mangling of the Japanese "thank you"'s. <Wakarimas> Re: problem with this page? > Get the pics, etc, but no article...... > http://www.wetwebmedia.com/ichartmar.htm > Rebecca Dimmick Rebecca, I will forward this along to Bob Fenner. Thanks for visiting Wetwebmedia.com. Mike Kaechele <Thanks for this Mike, Rebecca. This piece/article has not been updated... actually, it's part of a pending book in transition to publication... there are a few of these on WWM. Will post as the works run in publication. Bob Fenner> Re: pages in transit Yes! I've found some of them, too! First time it happened, I figured it was me/my browser. I'll assume if I come across another that it's the same deal (hurry up w the book, Bob!) <Worry re... believe me, have tried every method... begging like a poodle, bribes, threats, juggling with my blue fish suit on... to get publishers to go... haven't found the "magic button" yet. Sigh, Bob F> Re: WWM idea "Top 10 frequently asked question TOPICS". Just give me the URL's for the top ten and I'll put them on there. <And... a new left border link to a NEW(!) index... Umm, "Beginner's Corner" or such? Bob F> Mike Kaechele A challenge of sorts (not Pepsi), and a pledge (not the cleaner) Steven... don't go jumping out the window (it's not high enough), but have you given much thought (or numb feeling) to what you might do, be doing while the rest of us are frolicking with fraus in Deutschlund? To the point, do you mind (ha!) trying to answer, maybe move around, post images... heck, how about penning and pasting a few articles... on the principal site? And the big reward! Please plan on a diving holiday with myself (and others likely) to Hawai'i? Maybe Fiji? Where would you like to go (am not paying Billy.G a ding dang dime for the above question) when things settle down on the homestead? Well, that's about all the questions here for the moment, ahh! Bob F WWM idea (beginner sections) Curious question... What do you all think about having a group of links (small and discreet even at the bottom) on the Q&A page to the "Top 10 frequently asked question TOPICS". Sort of a fast jump set of links into the archives. Many folks do read the Q&A page closely, but are less inlined to navigate the archives... so they e-mial Bob <us> intead of digging to help themselves! <An excellent idea. Miguel, can/will you fashion such?> You won't hurt my feelings in dissent. Perhaps the idea is redundant. <No, one we have chatted over from time to time... something "more" different for "beginners", the uninitiated> But I'm sure we could all agree on a list of commonly asked question (common Ick ID and treatment, controlling algae through nitrates/phosphates/skimming, ph/Alkalinity issues (including dosing kaklwasser, b soda, reactors and beyond), mandarinfish (!!!), DSB, etc) <Yes> And yes, I am volunteering to write the article pages where a sufficient group of FAQs is not available <G> and edit the ones that are <smile>. <Ahh! A blessing for sure> Thanks buds, Antoine <Be writing my friend. Bob F> RE: WWM idea Well, there is already that bar on the left which are all jump-points to the other content within the site... Perhaps they need to do back flips, and whistle at you - "pst, hey kid - I got the information you need, right here." <Actually... what I think/believe (at this point) might serve the purpose is a new link/category... on the left shared border to a "Newbies/Most FAQs" Area... with none other than the indefatigable Anthony.C penning some beginner articles, plenty o pix and/or graphics... with links in turn to more of (possibly edited, yikes) the FAQs on WWM. What says you? Bob F> J -- RE: got the jacket... and ideas for other sets of shared borders Heh - that's one of those things I've not been a little more <fill in the word I left out> recently. <Many folks seem to losing their direct objects more and more frequently. While just the other day > I've not been forthcoming with the details, that's what I've not been, and that was one of the details. I do have an idea on the multiple shared borders, but have not had the opportunity to execute it. Hoping to get it nailed within the next couple of days. <Will wait off with baited breath (sans hook) for your input. Am hoping for something less tedious than making frames for all, any new added, moved, (even, shudder, modified) pages... at the worst hopefully only having to cut, paste, wait for or re-make hyperlinks for all extant pages in an existing or new "index" to make old site new... Perhaps new websites entirely? With links twixt? Be chatting. Bob F> Cheers. J -- Fish Behaviors... Dear Mr. Fenner, This note is probably way overdue but I think a long time coming? Lorenzo mentioned that you described my conduct at your fish club meeting lecture as "antagonsitic". I never meant to come across that way. I thought you were launching a humorous element into the discussion so I engaged. Forgive me for misinterpreting. There are those guilty of using Photoshop to pump up the saturation. I'm aware that you're against this, all the more reason to celebrate your underwater photography. <Ah, sorry for the misunderstanding> Thank you for your invitation and efforts to include me in WetWebMedia/WetWebFotos ventures. I do enjoy all of this salt water aquaria stuff very much. <As I sense we all will gain from your involvement. I look forward to our adventures together. If not the Germany/Red Sea trip upcoming, another close following> Sincerely, Christina Gonzalez <Be chatting. Bob F> eyez > Talked with Frank.S/Peeping Tom ayer... he wants to "measure" > your eyes in advance (perhaps two weeks total time...) Possible soon? Um, that means two trips out to Cali, just to get the eyeballs cut? I can't swing anything more than a 3-day weekend here and there, 4-day tops, especially with the big 2-weeker coming up in Mai. <Okay. Two trips it is... the one is just a "measure" as far as I know... maybe you can combine with a visit to your relations up north...> Certainly I'm excited/nervous/grateful... but not completely confident all that shuttling about, and $$$, on my peepers is really apropos? <I am... assuredly. Di's were done... and well worth the change in bank account balances (ridiculous) for the joy, restored vision, harm of glasses, contacts, expense of same over the years... We're talking quality of life improvement (substantial to hear it said) for mere money? Be chatting, Bob F> -Zo RE: eyez <Okay. Two trips it is... the one is just a "measure" as far as I know...> Depending on Peeping Tom's/Lasik's requirements re: pre-screening visit+operation+recovery, I could potentially pull a single 6-day weekend... instead? (Exam Thurs, operation Monday, home Tuesday?) <Will call him manana. In fact, will ask him if he can send info. along> I don't know much about the procedure (yet) - I'm sure Peeps will say yay/nay/whichway... <He is "da kine" as you used to say... Bob F> Thanks guys, Zo Thank You So Much! Dear Bob, My husband Tore came waltzing in from work with a smile on his face and handed me the books you sent by way of Lorenzo. (Zo was at our shop to get the boo-boo on his Jeep fixed.) Anyways, sarcastic Sicilian then proceeds to say "You know, before you go diving into those books, Bob wouldn't want you to postpone tonight's scheduled water change". Well, the tank maintenance is done and I'm heading for some serious reading (starting with your book first, of course!) <Hopefully fun as well> Just wanted to thank you and to say...the little bit of help I'm giving to WWF is truly a pleasure. Nice to be able to give something back. <Indeed.> Take care, BarbaraT <Be chatting. Bob Fenner> Question (Anthony REALLY helping) Bob, Question... I have had occasions on the message board and while answering queries to want to offer people excerts from my book in answer to questions asked repeatedly that I have already written about at length (planting Seagrass, training/growing Red Mangroves and the like). <I really like these> I would enjoy sharing them but feel a bit uncomfortable to continue to offer them through WWM as if I was imposing myself on you/your site for a self serving activity (namely... the continued shamelss promotion of my book...hehe). Would you care to deliberately post these excerpts somewhere in the archives for us to refer to or would you prefer that I reword/rewrite them for the archives? <What, are you joking? Please post what you want, will offer as "articles" with your name, email address... if you don't mind, looking something like the chotchkey (sp?) format we currently have... Or alternatively changing all we already do... to something better. Please see here: http://www.wetwebmedia.com/bubbletipanemones.htm This is an ex. of such a "contributed pc."... which is all that WWM actually is... this one by a gentleman of the name Jim Black... whom I've never met, but I asked him if we could place it for alls use... and I do intend to add pix... Hah! When I get to it...> Perhaps I'm a bit too sensitive...but I'd rather be shameless and polite than shameless and rude <smile> <No shame no gain... or somethin (bobbaloo, plays his bongos) like this... Antoine, P.R. yourself away... shameless self-promotion "is in" in my book (and yours for that matter)... No worries. Do excerpt, tease the readership of WWM at will. To wit, I had started a Anthony.C outline for stony coral input (that you can see on the FP Nav. View... that is not done, linked, indexed... puhleeze, have at it... post away any, all input you care to share. A warning... this "help" will very likely result in even more "queries"! Need help making boxes, pages... count on me. Bob F> Antoine Re: Whoa! Yep...please do tell/show us how to make the table for pics and messages e-mailed to be saved as such together. <Okay... how to go about this? A phone call where we say point to this thingee on top, then click here? This is about my state of development, capacity... but think it would work. Oh, and there's the onboard help screens... and WWM will pay for FP books if you'd like. Bob F> Thanks RE: Question WetWebFotos/WWM2 is designed with multiple "Authors" in mind, Anton, and I'm really looking forward to your (and others!) articles/excerpts there and elsewhere... But do mark such quite clearly, especially if you post them in the forums, NO PROBLEM plugging your book, especially where all are getting such valuable content... for free! <Agreed and agreed. Bob F> -Zo your book/marine ref (Note: add URL) Mr. Fenner, thank you for your response to my prev inquiry. I was reading thru your website (WWM) today researching more macroalgaes and soft corals - as well as trying to determine if I may have introduced an aptasia sp. anemone <Very common... easy to "do"... comes in for free (!) oh boy with live rock, other hard-based livestock> I noticed a ref to a book by yourself. Could n't find the title. I would like to look it up. A good marine ref book is defn something I lack. <Likely "The Conscientious Marine Aquarist". Available from shops, online etailers in the trade, Amazon...> While I was there I thought I'd peruse your FW article. Had nver seen your site before my marine "adventure" began, so was interested to see what you might have. Very impressive. You not only have a great wealth of knowledge in salt, you have it in fw too. <Much more to do, add my friend> One page in particular interested me, the one on fw shrimp. I had actually done an extensive review article a few years ago on fw shrimp in the aquarium and some of the smaller sites i mention are likewise ref from your article, but I did not see mine. Perhaps you have not seen it, or my vanity is too great to admit it was unnecessary :-( Just in case, perhaps you would like to see it... www.aquaticlounge.aquariumplants.cx/shrimp.html <Thank you for this. Will add to the bibliography.> Enjoy and thanks again, Joe Anderson www.aquaticlounge.aquariumplants.cx <Be chatting. Bob Fenner> Oklahoma City Aquarium Association www.okcaa.aquariumsociety.com Desire for trying new shared border, sponsor set/WWM Miguel, I have the 2002 Buyer's Guide ish of Water Gardening Magazine... many folks with "visit us online" in their ads... and the mag. has more subscribers than AFM, TFH, FAMA... Would like to try making a new set of shared borders for the "Pond Index" (any word here Jas... maybe the making of new web w/in WWM... new folders, pages... cutting and pasting all?) and your selling ad space for upcoming pond season here... Am writing columns for a few pond 'zines, and making slow, painful progress on the "Pond Pocket Guide" for M/TFH... but all for the good as they say. Pls give thought, consideration to making this so. Bob F More shared border modification Miguel, Di had a comment while we were walking the canines... The new WWM banner logo thingamajiggie... doesn't stand out... Maybe a border, circle or such was Di's idea to distinquish us from the sponsors... how about making the "edges" look like the labels for Website Index and Sponsors Website boxes? Or something across the top? Bob Re: More shared border modification Bob, Here is one I was just working on. See attachment--> Mike <Looks better, much to me. Will place this AM. Bob F> RE: More shared border modification Doh... Wrong link - try this one instead: http://tuskfish.wetwebfotos.com/main.htm <Thought the other one looked too familiar. Are we able to incorporate this onto/as the current WWM Homepage homey? Bob F> Re: More shared border modification Certainly could, obviously [or perhaps not so obviously] there is a little more work to be done to make sure there are no surprises - e.g.: something out of format, that makes ugly things happen, etc. BUT.... this could be done pretty quickly. <I say we do so... Miguel?> Did you try logging in to the FrontPage on that server to see how it is built? <Are you yoking mon? Barely able to get my underoos on straight these dayze. Sheesh, do I know how it's built... sure, with electrons. Hah! Bob F> J -- RE: More shared border modification Sorry - the word "rotate" is overloaded... it simply is 'code' for strategic banner/ad placement. The reason I say rotate is that the upper portion of the web page is prime real estate. You could sell it to one person, you could sell it to three, but at some point you will dilute the value of that space if you continue in this fashion. Best way for it to keep the value is to sell only one space, and guarantee that that space is seen by X-pairs of eyeballs every day. If the number is 20,000 - then sell 10,000 views to two advertisers and "rotate" between the two, making sure that they each get at least 10,000 views. That is banner rotation. <Yes, understood... likely "rotation" is what we'll do when all space sold... more ISP, page views demonstrable per time period...> As for being lost... how do you log onto WWM? Should be the same for this site. Same username and password too. J -- <Uh, doh! Okay. Bob F or someone with the same name, password...> RE: well, that was discouraging Well, that was my issue - I have absolutely no desire to argue, in fact you could say I have a deficit in the desire to argue. I just want to have happy fish everywhere - and happy fish owners. <I'm into that... as a matter of fact, I espy a heading of "Harlequin Shrimp" on my email... am sending it to you. Please resp. to both the sender and back to me for the greater glory of pet fish and WWM> No worries - will do anything/everything I can do. I'm just quite surprised... I mean, I sent that along with a complete sand box to play in and I get the impression it was never even touched. Cheers. <Still don't understand what went on... or is. But will try to. Bob F> J -- Re: More shared border modification All, I seem to remember there was some reason why we didn't decide to use frames from the start of the WWM. Are they backwards compatible with older browsers? The following is something I found on the Internet regarding Frames----> Fundamental Problems with Frames Part of the genius of Tim Berners-Lee's original design of the Web was a total unification of several concepts in a single idea, the page: the user's view of the information on the screen the unit of navigation (what you get when you click a link or activate a navigation action like a bookmark) a textual address used to retrieve information over the net (the URL) the storage of the information on the server and the author's editing unit (except if using embedded objects like image files which do require the author to manage multiple files for a page) The fundamental design of the Web is based on having the page as the atomic unit of information, and the notion of the page permeates all aspects of the Web. The simplicity of the original Web contributed to its ease of use and its rapid uptake. Frames break the unified model of the Web and introduce a new way of looking at data that has not been well integrated into the other aspects of the Web. With frames, the user's view of information on the screen is now determined by a sequence of navigation actions rather than a single navigation action. Navigation does not work with frames since the unit of navigation is different from the unit of view. If users create a bookmark in their browser they may not get the same view back when they follow the bookmark at a later date since the bookmark doesn't include a representation of the state of the frames on the page. Even worse, URLs stop working: the addressing information shown at the top of the browser no longer constitutes a complete specification of the information shown in the window. If an author copies the URL in order to include it as a hypertext anchor in one of his or her own pages then that anchor will not lead readers to the desired view but to the initial state of the frameset. Similarly, if a user decides to send an email message to a friend with the recommendation to check out a page, then copying the URL from the browser will not work if frames are used since the URL points to the frameset and not to the current view (with the information of interest to the friend). Given that social filtering is one of the most powerful mechanisms for information discovery on the Internet, it is an utter disaster to disable the URL as an addressing mechanism. Are any of these problems still an issue? <Sometimes I feel like I've been framed in this industry, but have never made any... feel like Desdemona here, chirping in with absolutely nothing to say... but do know that all web makers do make/use them... Jason showed me how he does it... time saver for folks in the know. I am not. Bob F> Mike Kaechele mike@wetwebmedia.com well, that was discouraging Bob, Perhaps I've just had too much stimulation, or not enough coffee today but I can honestly say that the exchange between myself and Mike today is a little more than disconcerting. <I haven't even read through all you twos going back and forth... Pls do be patient with Mike Jas... he means well, and is of the raw stuff of true entrepreneurship and creativity... but he and I are not "computer gurus"... Mike could greatly benefit from your patient sharing, instruction... it's too late for yours truly> Don't get me wrong, I get ideas shot down all the time, and sometimes I even say stupid shit... this is all a given. That being said, I'm unsettled by the rapid-fire copy-and-paste of articles to make arguments where no actual experience is present. <I see> Now, I've lost no steam here... I can keep on going, but I get the feeling that I'm going to have to argue out every item I ever present for web designs. Say it isn't so, Joe... J -- <No need to "argue"... let me read through today's bits... a very interesting story unfolding re the "politics" of pet-fish biz here... an unprecedented meeting I called was had today in L.A. with the largest marine livestk wholesalers... re MAC, IMA, AMDA, OFI... many other acronyms... am sure Steve.P will hear about much of this from Mary.M schnell... pooped Bob> RE: More shared border modification Indeed, and this is a problem when you sell more than one spot in that top section. The proper solution is the rotating one we discussed for WWM2, which of course is just around the corner. <Actually... We don't want to rotate the ads... but make them subject material specific... Think about this: the pond equipment and service people, their specialized e-tailers... don't want or need to be advertised, promoted on the marine index, brackish... and vice versa... some companies "do it all"... and can opt to be on more than one "index"...> In the interim, I would suggest that this space is prime real estate and as such, you shouldn't be selling it - you should hold on to it. The reasoning being fairly obvious - this is our own brand space, where people are able to identify where they are and what they are doing, and in the process building the brand of WetWebMedia [this is full-on marketing spiel]. If you crowd out your own brand, you confuse the user... and in essence move yourself slowly into the garage of your own house. New topic, dig this: http://tuskfish.wetwebfotos.com/ Here's straw-man #1... I'll probably tweak this view some more later this evening just to bring it into line as a complete site. This is using frames, which then allows one to individually replace individual frames at will, rather than needing to carry around the static content on each individual page. This is a complete knock-up and has not been tweaked for "good looks" but rather as a proof of concept. Currently I'm loading the Marine Article Index in the center [main] frame as the main/index page is not really frames-friendly at the moment. That's probably what I will tweak this evening. <Okay> I'll also be doing a completely different sample with non-shared borders, but essentially a similar style system. Much more to come. If you want to see how this is built, this is 100% FrontPage, so use the same URL and create a Network Place, and you should be able to connect to it using FrontPage and the same username and password used for the main WWM site. Questions, comments? <Sorry Jas, but am lost here... sigh, back to writing about cichlids. Bob F> J -- RE: What's wrong with frames? Hmmph.... Well, I'm not going to arm wrestle about this. As many articles can be found that stand on the opposite side of this fence. I will say this, if you read between the lines, what most of these articles say is "The savvy web developer can negotiate this mine field." So, got milk? <Don't know whats I's gots at this point... Bob, frameless and clueless> J -- Re: More shared border modification Mike, No scroll-bars is impossible, unless Bob can keep his articles to one short paragraph, you will always have at least one on a page. The scrollbars in frames are design-time issues and can be turned on/off ad nauseum. Essentially, I'm not trying to say "This is how it should look." but rather, "This is an alternative to shared borders." It's up to you to make it fit and look spiffy. In addition, while the polite web-page author should be concerned with "How does this look at 800 x 600" you can't please everyone. If you make a site to comply with 800 x 600, your going to piss-off the 640 x 480 crowd, so it's a minor catch-22. Regardless, this is still a design issue. It should be obvious very quickly that the existing menu bars and advertisement table don't make for a "clean fit" into the frames, which means that perhaps they need to be redesigned too. Please keep in mind that sight is a proposal and not a finished product. I was really hoping you would try and modify, play with, and even screw-up in an attempt to make chicken salad out of chicken shit. I would encourage you to FrontPage yourself over to that site and have your way with it. You will see quickly that you have plenty of options. Let me know if you have access issues, or questions, let me know. J -- <Ah, good to great. Just the sort of encouraging, good humour filled type of discussion of important topics I enjoy. Be chatting. Bob F> Wet Web Media I am very impressed with the content of your website, perhaps it is the best marine aquarium site on the web. <Perhaps> I heard you talk January 17th at C-Sea in Cleveland, and was equally impressed. I especially liked the photographs of Fiji. It seems you have a lot of wonderful photographs and other content that isn't on the web (I have already read almost all of the wetwebmedia material). I was wondering if I could help you out with the web site in any way. <You have> I am a computer programmer, and have the technical knowledge to do just about anything technical, have an artistic background (art minor), and enjoy, read, go see whatever I can in the marine hobby. I am not looking for money or anything else, just a chance to work on an interesting project, and contribute something to the hobby. Brad Bellomo <Ah, thank you for this tremendous offer. I do hope that we may become more, better involved... the friends who "are" WWM and our other sites are about all we have time for right now... however, I am desirous of others earnest input. Please do stay in contact. I will add your name to my e-addresses for upcoming help and adventures. Be chatting. Bob F> mail subject titles Bob, I have been titling my sent messages before they go over to the folder to save the paste-master some time. You won't hurt my feelings if you choose not to use them, but know that they are there if it helps to save a little time. <I do the same... pls continue to do so... makes re-moving them to proper final FAQs page/s... Be chatting, answering, moving... Bob F> Hasta potato, Antoine Gotta say..... <Hello gents, > <Howdy> That after perusing the site for info, asking a follow up question, getting great, very complete advice from SP, I have now set wwm as my "home" page. <A gas as we used to say> I have also become addicted to the daily FAQ postings! -- very interesting/informative read to see what others in this hobby are doing, and hopefully avoid pitfalls as I progress in the hobby. <Ah, good... and help others in such prevention as well> Thanx for such a great resource! (gotta love the 'net for some stuff!) <A pleasure> Please don't bother with a reply -- don't know how you 3 keep up w all of us.... ! <Our lives. Bob F> Rebecca PS tell the shark chick to grow up (guess you already did...) RE: Gotta say..... I'm sure you know this already, but nice way to spend your life! <It is my belief that all should "know what they are about"... that "life" is a series of experiences and reflections by which we (can/should) strive to seek and fulfill our desires/ambitions/dreams. I practice this belief> PS You are a FUNNY man... <A gas as we used to say> <As you know, our real lives contain child-like elements irregardless of age... and am compelled (by self) to "switch" between finite and infinite games perspectives in moment by moment cognizance, action... B'sides, this IS a fun, fanciful, microcosmic involvement! Be chatting, Bob Fenner> RE: Gotta say..... I agree! Esp about the child-like element "thing" I only PRETEND to be a 37-year old semi grown up (when I absolutely have to -- I am REALLY 13 and goofy :) Welcome back! <Thank you my friend. Bob F, who has refused to "grow up", but has def. grown out> FP, WWM concerns The long rebuild time is due to a couple of factors but most importantly is the flat [all in the root directory] structure of the site. Secondary factors include the overall girth of the site, and the transaction model that FrontPage uses to "recalculate hyperlinks" <Okay, I'm following you> Unfortunately, there is not really a lot you can do, as the size of the site increases, the complexity of this task [on the server that performs it] will increase exponentially. The best solution is a redesign of the basic folder/directory structure to add more of a filing system to the actual documents that make up the site. <Allright... have done this as time goes by and allows with the Folders for images and structure/Navigation View...> This is another area that FP excels at as you can drag and drop files to new locations and FP will re-write all the pages which link to it to reference the new location. <Yes> This is another little ditties we can save for 2/1 - 2/4 but I am getting the sense that we won't be sleeping much, trying to cover it all... <Agreed> Questions, comments? <Pls see our comments re sub-web and "migration" of our current content to these from the current "big one". Bob> Cheers. J -- no subject Hello Bob: I just checked out your website (wetwebmedia.com) earlier today and was very impressed by the sheer volume of information to be found at this site. How do you do it? <Dedication, devotion to helping others, conserving resources> Between maintaining the website, answering email questions, aquarium-related research and the volume that you write for FAMA to just mention a few. By profession are you a freelance writer or do you juggle all these activities around another full time profession. <All told I "do" five things for "work" that are money related... some as you list; writing articles/columns, making/selling image work, authoring/editing books, but my/our principal investments are real estate (all SFRs) and securities (stocks)... attention is narrowed perception... I allocate a few hours per day as part of my personal daily check list to "making a little money", the rest to "doing something to make the world better", "something to stay on good terms with others", "maintaining my physical health", "somethings to improve my mind"...> I don't know how you do it, but I'm envious. Take care, <Thank you my friend. You as well. Bob Fenner> Jeff Howe FAMA Contributing Editor <Ahh, good to "hear" from you Jeff.> Re: FP, WWM concerns Bob, Regarding the recalculate Hyperlinks issue- I'm under the impression that the only reason to do a recalculation is for the internal Frontpage search feature. <Ah! What a relief! Will ask Jas, maybe the folks at MS themselves re> As far as doing it for the Google search feature, it won't have any effect. Google does it's own crawl through the site and indexes everything on it's own. The site has grown too large for Frontpage to manage anything besides adding and linking new pages. That is how I understand it. I could be wrong though. Let's ask the experts who are coming to town for a visit this weekend. <Great to hear. See you soon. Bob F> Mike Re: Reef Splendor ads and mo' Bob, I will pull the RS ad from the right shared border and reinstall the larger size Seachem ad. We should offer a larger size (the size of the seachem ad) on the right shared border for $300 from now on. <Great idea... We're due to re-figure all this... And somehow start on the "other indices" ad sales, charge per... Bob F> Mike WWM growth, strengths All, a note of thanks and acknowledgement all the way around. It is due to the combined and individual efforts of us answering queries, making software, building the principal site and chatforum (not even to mention the upcoming sites) as well as the sale/administration of sponsorship that this "effort" is grown into such an impressive and useful tool. Kudos comrades. Bob F RE: Featured Sponsor Michael Move us to a top shared border staring Feb 1st Bob needs a new pair-a-shoes <Make those dive booties and we have a deal! Bob F> Do you have the graphics you need from us?? Dan DiCarlo President Reef Splendor FFExpress Calling Hey Bob, We are finishing up our W-2s for 2001. We noticed that we do not have a completed W-9 form for 2001 for you. Can I fax a copy to you and then have you fill it out, fax it back to me and then mail the signed copy? Sorry for the hassle, we want to keep everything in order for the government. Best Regards, Don <Yes, please. No worries. Our fax line 858-578-7372. Be chatting, hopefully seeing you soon. Bob F> Re: Your fab work on WWM Like Anthony said in one of his emails, I am more than willing to continue doing a small amount of work indefinitely. I can work about two hours per day and still get my work and family commitments taken care of. <Steven... this is too much time... I very much appreciate what is involved, your commitment to help others... but am hesitant to see you allocating so much resource for (at this time) no monetary return (no one has been paid to date... You are likely aware of where "the money goes" thus far> I think all of our answered questions are in a file called "to be filed". There is a folder called Steve & Anthony and it is under that. <Ah! Have seen, emptied it following last trip... will do so again as part of my ongoing utility here> We were kind of swamped getting all of the questions answered and there was two of us. <Yes. Much to do... fun, fulfilling, but overwhelming at times. Hope to chat with you soon. Bob F> See you later, Steven Pro Also I forgot to mention that there are several files in the Sent folder of Hotmail that are not that interesting and do need filed under the appropriate FAQ, I guess? <I will check through these today, deleting most, posting others. I do save (on files not linked, open to the public) much of the "administrative", and internal discussions amongst the WWM Crew, our Sponsors... Bob F> Steven Pro Mail stuff Bob, Please take a look into the sent mail folder and see if there is any of it you want saved and clear the rest. Internal WWM stuff for the most part. <Have been looking at the Bob folder, clearing junk to make space... Tell me you boyz have been saving your work on WWM or elsewhere... for posterity... and to save my posterior.> Also... I'm sorry to beat a dead horse, but the daily picture thing needs clarified. I'll e-mail Mike afetr he returns (?) from Sandy-eggo for the finer points. In the meantime... I have no idea where to look for new pictures to post. All the ones listed for dailypix have been used this past week. Please advise me where to find fresh pics to post. <I want to just go over (on the phone) steps to completion of how to do the daily pix thang... I've tried to send twice... and am not able to explain over this same bat channel adequately. Need to beg/ask when you have time... and let you folks have a rest... cuz, cous, have a big flavour to ask re taking over this task set for the May/April time out... Bob F> Thank you, good buddy Keep on truckin' Salty and the Bear New February calendar for your computer I made up some new desktop calendars for your computer, download them here----> http://www.wetwebmedia.com/calendars.htm <Looks good... will post to Daily FAQs. Bob F> Mike Kaechele mike@wetwebmedia.com FP, WWM concerns All, the universal "Recalculate Hyperlinks" feature on Frontpage no longer "goes" through on WWM... hence no real upgrading of search function (Google)... Last night tried for four re-tries... today for three... Up until yesterday would complete operation in one re-try... Have read about this "size" and function issue on the Net amongst other users. Jas, any ideas? Re Steve, Anthony and FP help: do avail yourself of Mike and Jason for assistance. The daily images need to be linked (hyperlinked) on FP to at least the current location of the "Full Size" version from the 300 pixel "sized and optimized" one on the "Daily FAQs". Please do move off all answered queries/input to somewhere on WWM. To the Daily and onto specific FAQs files if you can, stored elsewhere on your Folder, Pages if not for my later placement. Thank you again. Bob F Re: Time Out <Thanks for this... have heard it all... but "what do we do"? Know that the site is big bite-wise, file number-wise, long to do the recalc... so? Bob F> A couple of possible reasons for the WWM problems. I suspect Datapipe's servers are timing out. Mike Why does FrontPage just hang when establishing a connection to my account? There a number of reasons why FrontPage hangs, the biggest reason is related to the amount of data in your public_html directory, both in size and number of files and directories. The more files/directories and size of data, the longer it will take FrontPage to log in. Large amounts of data (> 50MB) and/or a large number of files or directories ( > 500) can cause FrontPage to severely hang and perhaps even timeout. If there are connectivity problems between your ISP and Website Providers, then this can also lead to FrontPage hanging badly or even timing out. Why does FrontPage time-out? FrontPage can time-out for a number of reasons. Below is a list of the causes of FrontPage time-outs: Large amount of data in your Root Web (> 50MB). Large number of files/directories in your Root Web (> 500). Data in your public_html which FrontPage cannot interpret and therefore hangs indefinitely. Connectivity problems between your ISP/LAN and Website Providers' network. Troubleshooting this problem should start with investigating any possible connection problems. Perform a traceroute both going out of our network to your host and from your host coming into our network will identify any possible connectivity problems. A more common cause is the content within the public_html directory. To test this possible problem, create an empty sub-web, which has its own Document Root. If it loads without any problem, you know that the problem is the amount of content in your public_html directory. It is connectivity issues and content which can create time-out errors. Content can be altered, or the best solution is to simply do your FrontPage updates at night, when Internet traffic is much lower than during the day. serious flaw Server timing out This is perhaps the most serious flaw with FrontPage. This problem surfaces when uploading a website with a huge number of files to a server. The official suggestion from Microsoft is to break the web into a smaller sub webs on your PC, then upload these individually. <This may well be a "blessing in disguise"... as I wanted to "make different sets of shared borders" as part of the ongoing scheme (no moral value implied)to separate, charge for the sponsors/ads... Jason will hopefully say this is a simple thing to do... and I suggest we try it (the sub-web divisions of what we term "Indices") when he and Zo visit. Bob F> Avoiding Problems with FrontPage Hosting FrontPage is a very particular program which requires a great amount of restrictions to be met. To avoid problems with FrontPage Hosting, please attempt to keep your webs below 75 files. <Hahahahahaha.> The more files each web has, causes the connection to time out while publishing. It is suggested that clients utilize multiple sub-webs for their large sites. It looks like we will be making up some sub-webs. Mike <Yes. Looking forward to it! Bob> Keep in good diving condition, and save up that PTO All, talked with Chris Bruenner of Quality (Marine, L.A.) today re some trouble I'm promulgating re the so-called MAC (Jas, Zo, we may be driving up that way... perhaps Zo can/will stay with kin, Jas come back down to serve w/me/us on Sat.s wedding...) The impt. bit is that Chris.B mentioned the coming up visit of the principals of Dr.s Foster & Smith (who recently acquired Petwarehouse.com, biggest player in its genre... and moved all to (Brrrr) Wisconsin... Seems that Dr.F&S buy most all their marine livestock from/through QM... To the point, Chris mentioned how nice, popular and impt. our own WWM is/has become and would be plugging us for ad space with the visit... so Miguel, here's Chris' email to follow up: chris@qualitymarineusa.com, and PWH you can find on the net or our spdsht on WWM... Please do contact them both... And, in related news, no less than two of the current right shared border sponsors are moving to the top... and another (Arnholt) whom I met in MI (double BRRRrrr) is signing on the right... So, more money to share on dive trips, gear, productive ideas/projects... Who wants to go where the water is warm and clear? Who wants to parley our efforts here into a couple of properties in the tropics owned in a Trust for all? Who wants to scoot about like Jigs the Dancing Dachshund? Thought so. Bob F Loose ends Bob an update on our activities with some questions. I update the Q&A page just after midnight. If there are a lot of messages (like last night), I'll fill the updated page and then catch up in the morning moving the remaining messages to be posted <Okay> I may work on the update through the day by pasting sent messages to a page in our folder called "pending Q&A" which will change daily. <Okay... is this on the net? On WWM? Not necessary to be on either... as long as eventually is posted/WWM> All yesterdays Q&A will be cut and pasted to the only other page in our folder titled "to be filed". It is here that we will also paste sent messages that do not make it to the daily Q&A page. Filing these pages thus far has been a problem for us with time constraints. But if you don't mind peeking in, they can be moved from there. <Yes> Steve answers mail at 6AM and 5-10Pm, I work noon to 5pm, and Midnight to ?AM. Throughout the day we funnel everything to the sent folder. Anything personal or out of our league goes into the Bobmail folder unless you tell us otherwise. <As long as doesn't exceed MSN/Billy.G's limit> Both of us will/are saving e-mailed pics to our desktop until you point us to a specific place to paste the pics on WWM for filing. <Post them in "tables" made along with the pertinent, accompanying text. Jas, Mike can instruct here> I'll try to seek the counsel of Mike/Zo soon to learn how to do the daily pic, etc. I'm struggling for time a bit now keeping up with the family business and my book duties. <Yikes... not Zo... he knows a bunch re computer issues but not FP (he says)> I 'll have to catch you up one of these days soon for some approval and advice on the matter: review in PFK coming up in March... 1000 sold since November, <Wow, this IS a bunch> printing another 3000 (fingers crossed <smile> that they'll sell)... I still have a lot of distributors to reach out to/cold calls, etc. If you get a chance...take a peak at the dealers/distributors on my site and suggest some heavy hitters that I've missed so far. www.readingtrees.com <Yes... perhaps Di> Well...back to mail call...hehe. Anthony PS... I'm really glad some of the daily readers find my joculations funny and not just retarded. I feared that I was going to hurt the traffic for the page with the shenanigans...hehe. <No worries. Bob F> Sponsors Have you guys ever approached the various on-line mail-order companies for selling ads. <Yes, I, Mike and even Pete have given this a semi-go at times... but we do need/want to make a concerted professional effort at some near time... as a few impt. changes are going to occur soon (addn. of travel pieces, launching in earnest of WWF, perhaps WWV... division of "Indices" into subwebs, other definable shared border (ad-space) types...> Your sponsors seem to be dominated by maunfacturers and they probably get good brand recognition that way, but no way to track sales. <Au contraire mon ami... easy to track... computer-wise> There are a few livestock e-tailers as sponsors, but so many of the people asking questions are so new, I am reluctant to advise any of them to purchase animals sight unseen. <Mmm, agreed> If the Petwarehouses and That Fish Place were sponsors, they could probably track actual sales from the referring link. Just a thought. <A good one. Miguel, RSVP. Bob F> Steven Pro Re: FP, WWM concerns <Mike... any further word on this issue? Bob F> Bob, Have you contacted Datapipe with this concern? They really have been helpful in the past with any problems. Go here to contact them--> http://support.datapipe.com/ <Miguel, as our designated web-master for WWM, will you please make this so? Bob F> Mike Re: Mailing list for wetwebmedia.com? Manuel, I'm not sure what type of mailing list you mean. We have a weekly Wetwebnews( http://www.wetwebmedia.com/wwnews.htm )feature that is e-mailed to a few hundred folks, and then we also have a chatroom at http://talk.wetwebfotos.com/ . I will forward this on to the rest of the Wetwebmedia team for further consideration. Mike Kaechele mike@wetwebmedia.com <Mmm, no thanks. We don't want this sort of exposure, format. Bob Fenner> Your fab work on WWM Esteban, Antoine, what gives? You've done such a yob mon that there are now more than 5k unique ISP sessions per day!? Aiyee, tell me you've saved, no, tell me you've been placing and saving your answered queries, input in the various FAQs files on WWM or where they are now (QUICK!) so I can forestall the flood of mail... and help out others with your content. Do you boyz want to "trail off" answering the Steve and Anthony ongoing queries? Bob F, back but only barely Filing Since Anthony did such a bang up job last night, there was very little for me to do this morning, so I tackled filing a few of our answered queries. I did have one question about it. Do you put the newest FAQ at the top? <Yes... usually... too much for me/all to remember, place in other order... though wouldn't it be great to go back, edit (misspellings etc.) ordinate the FAQs? Nah!> That is what I did, but I was not sure because certain topics have many FAQ files; I, II, III, etc. When you add one to the top of file I, do you take the bottom one off and move it over to II and so on? <Steve, are the "rest to be placed" FAQs by you and Anthony on/in WWM as in in the Folder bearing you two's names? I can/will place if too time-consuming (impt. that they get posted timely... forestalls many other queries... Bob F> Steven Pro New Banner for WWM Here is my first try at a new banner for the upper left of every page (except the homepage) of the Wetwebmedia website. This size will open up some space for more advertisers. <Looks great, snazzy! Bob F> Mike Re: Mailing list for wetwebmedia.com? Hello everyone, Thanks none the less for the consideration of the idea, your website has helped me a great deal - Thanks to everyone for all you do! Best regards, Manuel <Thank you my friend. Bob Fenner> ========================== <Mmm, no thanks. We don't want this sort of exposure, format. Bob Fenner> Re: Your fab work on WWM Hola! Meestar Fenner, <Howdy> Welcome back (you have been missed.). <Ahh, now are you ready to come with us in May? Think about this... you'll leave Steve with WWM!> Thank you for the kudos. I was curious about how the ISP sessions were looking... but more so out of concern that we were driving people away... hehe. <Far the opposite my friend> It's pretty funny how many people find your true and exaggerated exploits as reported by me/us in the Daily Q&A interesting. By the way... there is one aquarist that really thinks you tried out for the San Diego symphony and wants to hear a gastric recital by you... if it is indeed true that you are now a member of the wind section. <Were that I so talented> Regarding your query...yes (da gooda news) we have been saving our messages..and no (da badda news) we haven't been archiving them. But not for lack of interest/knowledge...just a lack of time. The old posts are pasted daily and saved on the only page in our Steve and Anthony folder which is growing faster than an Enron CEOs offshore account. <Really? Have seen this and it doesn't seem near large enough...> Part of the problem was that we only got Steve set up with Front Page and how to use it last night... I have had the pleasure up to now.We have tried to at least keep up with your mail and the daily posts but are honestly struggling at that. I really don't know how you do it! <I key quickly> If you would like us to trail off for whatever reason... no sweat, I guess that would be OK...hehe... it is your site. <It is our site> If we can still be useful, Steve and I have talked about it of course, and would like to help by continuing to answer queries... but even fielding all of your mail (sorting or answering) has been more than we can manage to do on an ongoing/indefinite basis. <I understand> Do let us know how we can be useful but in a capacity that requires less than six hours a day...ha! <Mmm, much to say, ask> Steve would like to put in time daily and indefinitely but also stay married (pregnant wives and real jobs can demand so much time <smile>). <Yes> I would also like to continue answering mail and posting daily, indefinitely... but I also really need to keep hustling book sales and would like to finish two others (one non-aquarium related) in the near future or I will be selling pencils on the street corner just to feed myself. <I'll be there with you> Again... you are a machine, not a man... I don't quite know how you find the time to keep up with the site. The site, of course, is important and providing a great service/value to the industry. <And to the planet> Have you given any more thought to us each trying to officially take responsibility for more specific e-mail topics (Steve takes filtration/water chemistry etc. (I'm not sure of his preference), I would get...hmmmmm..how about inverts, and you would get all of the really long ones and stalker flavored messages...hehe)? <Will be discussing this and many other issues with Jas and Zo this wknd on their visit> You know... after answering all of that mail, you would think I would be more empathetic to the length of mail that I send to you...hehe. Maybe it is passive-aggressive behavior <wink>. <Not unlikely> Hasta Tortugas, Antoine <Be talking turtles mi amigo. Bob F> Re: Your fab work on WWM Bob... Give me a call after this weekend I suppose (and you have Steve's number) once you have a better idea of your/the site's needs. Then let us know if there is a formal or defined role that either of us can fill. My number is 412-794-9461 <Will do so... when Zo, Jas are here> How about in the meantime Steve and I will continue to tackle and post what we can and push the rest daily into your Bobmail folder (there will be general questions I'm sure, but just too many for us). This should allow us to budget our time and yet still participate with you picking up the slack.We'll update the date and heading as well on the Q&A, but the daily pictures are still all yours to update. <Too generous... I will in turn "cut paste" all the previous days (do save them!) as I am most familiar/facile with their various placement (due to arcane labeling, classification schema on the sites)> We'll proceed on this unless you direct us otherwise. <Very well... and, now, do you understand the fairness, logic, fun in encouraging your traveling with us in May? Bob F> Hasta pin-ya-ta, Antoine WetWebFotos nears release ================================================= Bob and/or the WWM FAQ Team, PLEASE DO NOT POST THIS ================================================= <Zo, I do thinks something of this (perhaps annotated) should be posted and expanded on... on WWM. Bob, pls see comments below.> > what's gonna be the deciding factor of when it goes public? -Barb 500 Articles, minimum. HAHAHAHA sorry, just kidding. Jason and I were just chatting about that. There are a couple of minor things I want to change/fix, the user list for example - it's huge (400+ users), I'll probably have that only display users that have notes and/or pictures, but that's an easy one. The bigger one is the 'ad/banner' system that Jason is hacking on, to allow us to manage the various sponsor adverts that appear on WWM today, only with a little more useful/powerful/flexible interface. <Yes> Also, I'm hoping I'll have more invertebrate photos loaded, some invert articles, and some freshwater articles done as well. And there are a few little 'programming' things here and there, it's hard to decide what to do 'post-release' and what to do NOW, before we go public with it. For example, the 'homepage' should not just display the number of articles/photos etc, but maybe show links to some of the newest ones, announcements... you get the idea. <Yes... perhaps in a assignable "fold out" menu format...> Do any of you have any input on the public release? (Please say, if so) We'll be talking this up in San Diego this weekend, Jas and I will be there Fri-Sun to work with Bob and Mike. <Thank goodness... I have some non-news re FP2k and no-success in making webs w/in webs to facilitate maintencing, updating hyperlinks, making Index-specific shared borders... am writing a query este dia to Billy.G and boyz re what our possibilities are, and want your best input re migrating to DW4 or...> Here's a couple of questions - should users really be allowed to 'comment' on a Media? or just on an Organism? If both, how can I make the pages more distinct from each other, so people don't put comments about an organism - on a photo, instead of on the organism? <Would be nice. Both... to have an outright/all input "faqs" file associated with each...> Now that the real server is up, there is little actually holding us back, besides the 'wow!' factor of user's first impressions (which we really do want...) <Not a real concern per me... I say "launch"> The biggest post-release 'feature' will be credit-card processing of image sales - I'm still stewing the design of that one around in my head... <Here I'd like to try Di's MIVA et al. paid help... for ease of, saving money at this point in transactions, set-up... hope you can communicate with her and them sufficiently when here. Bob F> -Zo Re: FFExpress (and Bob F) Calling <Gang, please see below. I am seeking your input re the conumdrum of what to do with the financial proceeds of our various co-net ventures. Up to recently there wasn't much "to go around", and we have spent income on hardware, software, web-hosting, travel, photography gear and related content building and maintencing activity... But, as planned/intended with the expansion (rapid) of the sites we will be faced with a/the dreaded "tax liability"... Up to about the half of this year we/I will be okay claiming the income from our activities as "personal" as we intend to spend it on travel together... But going forward from here/there? Please give this issue some thought. I have been part of S and C type corporations in this country, on various boards that had this challenge/opportunity (largesse for all), and have some notions of what we might do... short term securities investments, money market funds... but would like to chat over the possibility of establishing a trust, perhaps buying a real property... in... Hawai'i, Fiji, Australia, perhaps elsewhere. Yes, this is happening. Bob F> RE: IMPORTANT from Anthony Bob, I don't think they are out of line in their pricing. We have had terrific customer support, uptime, and the site statistics tool is great. I am not in favor of getting away from this reliable service provider to save a couple of bucks. If anyone has a superior provider in mind please forward their information so we can compare them all. <Real good. Thank you for this input. Bob F> Mike RE: IMPORTANT from Anthony Hi, I have been cleaning some of the old junk files from the WWM site recently to clear up some space (probably in the ten's of megabytes). I just have to be careful not to delete anything that is linked to something else, mainly images which are very piggy. I will make this a priority this week. <Real good... as will I. A note concerning space, money for same. Am given to understand we don't have "such a good deal" with Datapipe... we pay forty dollars a month for 200 megs... Going forward we may well want to shop around a bit I guess is what I'm getting at. Bob F> Mike Maybe I'm too poor to pay attention Have you seen that fishbase.org now has live links (Google Images) on their "further images" pages? Amazing... suspect Zo et. Jas may just have such a feature to add... Bob F More fuel to the fire for moving hosting? Bunkola last night... for the hours 4 and 5 of our stat.s tool... zero, zip, nada sessions... Must've been offline. Bob F Smattering of this, that re WWM All, just an fyi re the "ongoing" discussions we have re what I at least consider important topics... which is about all... I save on WWM in and attached (mainly, though several folders, pages are not linked, available from outside/public view) our input, responses that have to do with building WWM... you can find them by and large through the Admin. Index on WWM, the others internally through folders, navigation, tasks views... On unrelated note, pls. do retain, paste and store (appropriate boxes please) images sent in with queries as such... do consider that this practice will benefit all going forward. I save on desktop and make a box (sigh) and cut paste with the query/input next day... Bob F Re: Hosting Providers Uhh, ok... Let's see... stat's package... that's a can do, but not done yet. I'll look around the building to see what is available and see what it'll take to get running on the win2k machine... <Hotay... the one we have now is fine, as Mike sez... but can easily be supplanted afaic> Long term stability should be good to excellent. We've not gotten any real demand, and given the number of boxes I have "laying around" I can easily dance around the problems. Probably couldn't have an exclusive box forever but... probably for the foreseeable future at least... As far as yucky moves, this is one thing that FP excels at, and is as simple as just publishing to the new web server. As a prelude to that, I have already set up a server which you [Mike and Bob] can experiment with. I had set this up while Bob was in Tavuni and can be accessed via the URL http://tuskfish.wetwebfotos.com/ - This is a partial mirror of the WWM site, frozen in time back before Christmas. This web should respond to the "Bob" username and password and can be treated like a red-headed step child. Feel free to scream, yell, rant and rave is this is not the case. Questions - Comments? <I'll wait till you two are about... not much time to do much of anything till even way past this period in time. Bob F> J -- Re: IMPORTANT from Anthony Hell... I can probably hook you with a private server [for the time being... <No rush... let's "do the huddle"... explain sufficiently on your visit. Bob F> J -- Re: IMPORTANT from Anthony Shop around for what??? <Hosting with the mosting> I got your free web host right here... <Hard to beat the price, jocularity of the provider... Bob F> RE: IMPORTANT from Anthony Looks like we may need to talk to DataPipe sooner rather than later -- perhaps negotiate over disk space and getting some DNS changes that will facilitate the mail box stuff. In any case [Anthony]'¦ out of space is exactly that, no more room at the inn'¦ without removing some files to make additional space, there is no other work around. The easiest solution is to contact the provider and ask for more space -- like Rutger Hauer in Blade Runner, 'I need more life, Father.' <Or more like young Oliver Twist with his food bowl, "More please sir". Have looked, seen, we have plenty of space to spare for now... but are due to clean up non-used files on WWM, and many other space saving tasks therefore. Bob F> So'¦ who's calling DataPipe? J -- Hosting Providers Jas, You've still got a FrontPage-extended instance on Hyperworx? If so, I'd sure recommend looking into hosting on that box. It's extremely stable, very fast, and roomy enough for a couple of WWMs... the only missing link is a good statistics package - the one at datapipe is pretty kitchensink. Or are you thinking of setting something up at CTel? (Besides the WWF box?) -Zo <Hope this isn't going to be an imposition... I do back-up, download sites daily... Bob F> RE: IMPORTANT from Anthony Jason cynicized: > I like the sector pig idea... <Oiiiink!> Yes. This is a likely culprit. Explanation for the non-compugeeks: <oh oh> A disk is divided up into 'tiny' sectors, but there can only be so many per disk (per partition to be totally accurate). So the bigger the partition, the bigger the sectors, to some extent, especially with Windows NT. Really, all systems do this, one way or another. But NT is particularly bad about it, and the sector size on a big disk/partition may be as much as 64kb. A file smaller than this will still consume the whole sector. And any 'remainder' off the edge of 64kb will spill to another sector. Many of the -thousands- of files on WetWebMedia are very small, and will either consume only part of one whole sector, or fall just over the boundary of x number of sectors. Thus, disk pigging. The new server does not have this problem. However, it also does not have Frontpage support. Jason may have some input/ideas there. -Zo <More computereeze than I've evah wanted to know. See you all soon. Bob F> RE: IMPORTANT from Anthony My 'copy' of WWM (which is admittedly a few weeks old) is only 118MB. Could it really have grown all the way to 200MB that fast? Or perhaps the big Windows NT disks at datapipe are pigging sectors... <Don't know about the latter at all... but do agree the site has NOT grown that much (or fast)... think the memory shortage stmt. had more to do with Anthonys mahcheen. Bob> |
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