QT, Chromis wounds, and a dead Jawfish - 3/21/08
Hi crew!
Thanks again for your continuous work on this wonderful site. It is truly an invaluable tool in the hobby/obsession. Kudos.
<Thank you>
I recently moved from a 29 gallon to a 90 gallon. I was fortunate to obtain a free 3 inch established substrate from a friend who cures live rock and have since added another inch of substrate from the 30 gallon and another 1-2 inches of coarser substrate, which has been mixed (total 5-6 inches deep, all aragonite). The sand is also filled with small pieces of live rock, dead SPS, and shells. I currently only have about 40 pounds (50 pounds more curing in my buddy's curing setup) of live rock, but this live rock has been active in an aquarium for over 2 years, and is extremely porous and has great size to weight ratio. The 90 gallon tank has only been running for about 2 months and I added the fish (1" Royal Gramma, 3" yellow headed Jawfish, 1.5" Ocellaris Clown) and invertebrates (2" fire shrimp, 1" Scarlet Cleaner Shrimp, 1" Peppermint Shrimp, 3/4" Randalli pistol shrimp, and an unknown number and wide variety of sized Nassarius snails, Astrea Snails, Blue Legged Hermits, and Turbo Snails.) from my 30 gallon almost two weeks ago. My water parameters have been consistent since cycle completed; 0 ammonia, 0 nitrite, 0-5 nitrate, 0 phosphate, 1.024 salinity, 420 Ca, pH 8.3, mid range alkalinity.
<Okay...>
Since then I have turned my old 30 gallon into a bare bottom QT which now contains 5 small Blue-Green Chromis,
<Mmm, may not be supportable...>
which leads me to my first question.
One of the Chromis has a maroon colored spot (approximately 2mm diameter) under his pectoral fin on the right side. None of the other chromis have this and all five appear healthy (schooling, eating, swimming, alert to my presence).
<Good>
I suspect this is a bite wound, though the paranoia is screaming bacterial or protozoan infection. Is there something I can do to speed up healing of said wound,
<Mmm, nothing practical, nada I would>
if it is in fact just a simple bite wound and not something else? Is it safe to assume that if all 5 fish appear healthy after 4 weeks of QT (day 5), despite the wound still being present, I can add them safely to my display tank or should I wait until there is no sign of the wound (who knows how long it will take to heal)?
<I would go ahead and move these Chromis>
Can I add the remaining four chromis after QT period is up or should I wait until I feel safe adding all 5?
<All>
All chromis were given freshwater dip's prior to being introduced to the QT.
The main reason for my question today is regarding my recently deceased yellow headed Jawfish. I introduced him as the third and final fish in my 30 gallon (after Ocellaris and Royal Gramma), and it was doing great. As all my substrate in the 30 gallon tank was sugar fine and only 3-4" deep the Jawfish never managed to dig vertical burrows, though he certainly tried in every corner of the tank, and after some time of making 1-2 new burrows a day, finally settled under a piece of live rock where it dug a burrow which it remained close to, but ventured quite far during feeding. Over all I was surprised on how active it was and how much I was able to see and enjoy this fish. On a side note the Jawfish and the pistol shrimp lived together in a shared burrow system for a while. The Jawfish was the second fish to be introduced to the new tank, after a 3 day test with the Ocellaris which had no impact on my water level what so ever (short test time, but substrate and live rock were very well established). This is where the Jawfish ran into trouble. It spent all it's time under the rocks and made no attempt to dig his burrow and not once did I ever see signs of digging (apart from the den of the pistol shrimp) in the time the Jawfish was in the new tank. shortly after it stopped eating, then the heavy breathing started. At this point I moved him to the QT (grabbed it with my hand, no resistance) after a freshwater dip (fearing ich or velvet), which it clearly did not appreciate.
It lived in the QT on bare bottom with a good piece of dead SPS for cover for two days before it died. Before going belly up the Jawfish would either lay still on the bottom breathing heavy, or he would attempt to swim (most his tail was pretty limp and it's fins were frayed and torn) t through the surface of the water. After reading the Jawfish FAQ's I am leaning towards stress related death. Does this seem like a reasonable assumption?
<Yes... I would guess perhaps something... it ate. Perhaps a too-toxic worm of some sort... A necropsy might reveal...>
Environmentally the new tank was designed for the Jawfish, leaving large areas open at the short sides of the tank. Is it likely that the move stressed him out or is it likely that I have a greater problem with my tank such as ich and velvet? All the other fish seem great, even the ones I added before (2 2-3" Firefish, 1 1.5" wheelers goby, and a ¾" ocellaris) the Jawfish became sick. Is there anything in my tank that could have stressed out the Jawfish?
<Mmm, nothing "jumps out"... the Alpheid... but you state the Randall's and the opistognathid were familiars>
I have never seen the Royal Gramma harass the Jawfish, however the clown was opening his mouth to the Jawfish on the first day, but never after.
<These hail from related/congruent habitats in the TWA... not likely a/the problem here>
I was planning on adding a Bicolor Blenny, some small Gobies, a McCosker's Flasher Wrasse, and an Allan's Damsel, and some more inverts, but I suppose that is on hold.
<Mmm, I would not be hesitant here>
Do you think it is safe to attempt another Jawfish?
<Yes... perhaps even two... for interactions sake>
I am considering adding another 1-2 inches of coarser substrate and adding a blue spotted Jawfish instead.
Any recommendations regarding compatibility or pointers to reduce stress for this species would be greatly appreciated.
<Mmm, do keep the tank well-covered... tremendous "jumpers">
Another side note: I wrote to you guys a few months ago regarding a pistol shrimp (randalli) and Yasha goby pair getting separated and the pistol shrimp got sucked up in a filter and lost both his claws. Pistol has regrown both claws and is wrecking havoc on my blue legged hermit population,
<What they do>
however the Yasha was never seen again. I love this little guy. A hardier invert is hard to imagine. Any chance the pistol shrimp and the Wheeler's goby might pair up?
<Yes... patience>
Thanks again for the help and I apologize for the LONG e-mail.
Sincerely,
-Jonas
<Welcome! Bob Fenner>

Chromis with swollen gill - foreign body in it. what should I do? Nothing but read  – 03/13/08
Hi All/Any,
<Josana>
I've got a Blue/Green chromis (in a 55G tank with a valentini puffer, and some live rock, a turbo snail, a few crabs and too many hitchhiking pistol shrimps)
He's been fine since we got him (mid August last year) - the only one of 4 to survive more than a week from purchase.
<... Mmmmm>
Last week he rubbed up against an anemone (i assume),
<... What anemone?>
and got slight bruising and irritation on his left side, which dissipated by morning, so i don't think that has anything to do with this.
<This?>
I got home last night after the lights had gone off, but yesterday morning he was fine and scrabbling for food. i did notice last night that one piece of rock had been dislodged from its usual place,
<How?>
which i fixed up this morning This morning he didn't come out for breakfast - instead hid behind the rocks at the back of the tank.
When i came home tonight, he was around the side behind some rocks, but I could see immediately that his left side gill was very swollen, and he was breathing fast, but not having any problem staying afloat/ swimming.
I immediately did a water test, and a 20L change (test prior to change showed pH8.4, 0 ammonia, 0 nitrites, 40ppm nitrates,
<Too high>
sg1.023)
<Too low>
I've spent a while sitting at the side of the tank (which is right up against a cabinet, so very limited viewing), to try and see what was going on, without much luck, but he's come out to the front of the tank a couple of times briefly. I managed to see that he seems to have something stuck in his gill - just below the line of the side fin, there is a small dark (brownish) thing that almost looks like an arrowhead < (and probably only about 2mm high x 3mm visible width).
it sort of reminds me of a burr like you'd find in the bush. The swollen gill flesh doesn't look bloody or anything - if anything, reasonably white (though darker behind that - which i think means I'm actually looking in behind the gill into his body cavity?).
<Likely so. If the gills or supports are damaged, fooled with much at all... doom>
i tried putting some food in while he was at the front, and he had a tiny bit, but then retreated again behind the rock, with bottom lip quivering. He does NOT look happy. (Puffer is doing fine)
Unfortunately I don't have a camera at the moment, and i don't think that i could get a picture of this anyway.
I don't know if i should try and catch him and investigate/remove the 'burr' (using tweezers?),
<I would not>
or leave it and hope it will work its way out. (though i know from when we got them that they don't like nets at all, and can pull their scales off in them. this would probably also involve dismantling the liverock) That's assuming that it is just a piece of something, not a parasite...??? I assume that if it is something non parasitic, he might have backed into it.?
Thanks in advance
-JoS
<... Can, could only guess... given the description, data offered, no pic... I would do nothing... but read re the Anemone, et al... Bob Fenner>

Re: Chromis with swollen gill - foreign body in it. what should I do? – 03/13/08
Well, I'm pleased to say that this morning the chromis is up and about, eating tentatively, with no visible swelling or protrusion. The only noticeable signs from the ordeal are his more-than-normal skittishness, and a string of white faeces that was there when I first saw him - which I attribute to a day and a half without much food.
If there's anything that you do suggest re keeping an eye on him, please let me know. (I'm hoping this wasn't some sort of predator/ parasite working its way inside him!)
Thanks,
-JoS
<The previous... Reading. BobF>

Re: Chromis with swollen gill - foreign body in it. what should I do?  3/14/08
Thanks for the feedback Bob.
<Welcome Josana>
Re the early loss of the other three chromis: emailed you about that back then. was due to a combination of net trauma and bad tap water
used in quarantine.
<I see>
The anemone: Aiptasia (sp?). there's a couple in there. hard to get rid of as Im sure you know. especially with a messy puffer...
<Ah, yes... and they can be problematical in stinging other livestock>
Re the rock dislodging - no solid idea, since i wasn't home to see it.
its only a small, fairly thin piece of rock resting at an angle between a few others. We thought it was fairly secure, but i suppose if bumped from the wrong angle it could have tipped forward. May have been fish or crabs
<Takes a great deal of force...>
Happy to report per the other email that the Chromis appears to have made a full recovery. He's now back to his normal character, breathing
and eating habits.
Thanks again,
-JoS
<Ah, thank you for this follow-up. BobF>

Chromis Disease?.. More Than Likely Banged Up 12/12/07
Hello!
<Hi Matt.>
I am back again, asking another, (probably obvious), question. I recently returned my vicious blue damsel and picked up 3 little chromis damsels to help liven up my tank a little bit. However, after a while in the tank, one of the chromis fish has suddenly come down with a strange illness. I've searched for quite a few hours trying to figure out what it could be with mixed results. First, let me describe exactly what is going on.
The smallest of the fish appears "dirty" in tone, and has random blotches of regular toned scales scattered throughout. These spots are not white, but rather the normal light blue/green color that most green chromis fish have.
The fish is moving about fine, has no signs of accelerated breathing, is showing no signs of aggression, eating normally, (in fact, eating a little bit more avidly than the other fish I've got!). It is not rubbing against anything in a manner that would suggest ich, and still stays with the others in a small group when moving about in the tank.
I'm a bit puzzled as to what could be wrong; whether it is possibly a sickness, something that happened as a result of the methods of capturing the fish, stress, etc. I've been closely monitoring the water quality, testing almost daily, and have tested with practically no NH3, NO3, or NO4.
The pH is roughly between 8.0-8.4, and the temperature hovers between 78 and 80 degrees F. So, I would be very surprised if this had something to do with water quality. If it were stress, I would expect the fish to stop or at least be more wary of eating and hanging around the other fish in the tank.
I've attached two photos which are of pretty poor quality, but they capture the condition well enough for me to send them in as supplements. Should I quarantine this fish or allow it to stay in my tank until it begins getting antisocial and stops eating, if, of course, if that ever happens?
<Matt the photo file is too large, can you downsize to a few hundred Kb and resend?
I do not have the time to download large photo files so I did not see the pics.
By what you describe, I'm guessing it is just signs from rough handling and/or another fish in your tank hit on him a few times. Do resend and we can get a better idea of the
problem.>
Thanks for any help!
<You're welcome. James (Salty Dog)>
Matt

Urgent marine advice needed. so many mistakes, so little time... Chromis... – 09/08/07
Hi guys/gals,
I've been up all night reading through your FAQs, and I've got myself in an awful tizzy. Apologies in advance for the very long email, but I want to make sure you've got as much info as possible
Background (please don't yell at me):
My partner and I started last October with a 60L tank (15Gal), FOWLR (+ Hitchhikers - crabs, pistol shrimp). Our only fish was a Valentini Puffer (Puffy- yeah, i know, original!)-
<Needs more room... Oh, I see this directly below>
we shortly realised that the tank was too small for her, but have only now been able to upgrade. The tank was also getting an anemone infestation due to Puffy's messy eating and inadequate filtration.
So, start of August, we bought a 220L (55Gal) Cube (AquaOne brand), and intended to use our 60L as a quarantine.
<Better...>
The tank has crushed coral sand and a Jaubert cavity, and the filter/ sump is an AquaOne Marisys.
We have about 23kg (~50 pounds) live rock, which was bought in 2 halves, a week apart. It had been cured at the store, looked and smelled healthy. Puffy was moved over within a couple of days of the 2nd set of rock being added. Ph was 8.3-8.4, Ammonia and nitrite were 0 and nitrate was 10ppm at the time.
<Good...>
The following weekend (mid august), I was away, and my partner purchased 3 hermit crabs, and a cowry.
<Mmm, food>
(Puffy has never shown the slightest interest in the crabs in her old tank, and is an incredibly good natured fish). The following day, he purchased 4 blue/green Chromis, which had been co-habiting a tank with another, larger, valentini. The idea here was to acclimate Puffy to the presence of other fish, as she'd been so long without company. He put the Chromis directly into the main tank, as the quarantine tank had not been set up (still had the old live rock in it).
So, the Problem(s):
After putting the Chromis in the tank, 2 developed bruising.
<Likely, oh, I see this below as well>
We figured that this might have been to do with their violent reaction to being netted, but thought we should do our best to quarantine them anyway. So the quarantine tank was prepared (or so we though), and the Chromis were once again caught, and transferred.
A couple of days later, and after some evidence of bullying, one of the Chromis with the bruising started to develop rapid breathing and stopped eating. We checked the water and there was 1.0ppm Ammonia. we did a water change (mixing our own from tap water... yes, i know now...), and it didn't help. Eventually we checked the tap water and to our horror found that it already had ammonia in it.
We freaked, read all about chloramine, and went back to our LFS to pick up some sea water. But we also moved the Chromis back into the main tank (we'd had them for a week by this stage), thinking that it would be better to get them out of the ammonia.
The fish exhibiting breathing problems lasted another couple of days, but then we found him dead one night. The other fish (including the other bruised one) seemed fine. When we extracted the dead fish, I examined the body, and it did indeed seem that the bruise was in the same area as some missing scales (and therefore probably caused by netting trauma). That was about a week and a half ago.
A couple of days ago though, another of the Chromis started showing breathing problems, was hiding behind the rocks, and wouldn't eat. He was also being bullied a bit by the other two, (who regularly have their dorsal fins raised, and seem also to be butting tails with each other a lot). Water parameters were 8.3ph, 0ammonia, 0nitrite, 15nitrate. We found him dead this morning. I couldn't see anything particularly wrong with him (there were a couple of darker scales, but they were fairly consistent with night time colouring).
So, I've been reading through your chromdisfaqs page and came across a disturbing possibility that this is Velvet (see 3rd from bottom). I haven't noticed any of the fuzziness associated with it though.
<Is not Velvet... I assure you... if so, all your fishes would be dead>
The other 2 Chromis are fine... so far, but then again the 2nd one only started having problems after the 1st one had gone.
Solution?:
As horrible as it sounds, my main concern is Puffy (obviously I don't want the remaining 2 Chromis to die either, but if it comes down to the choice... ). The only thing is, I don't know what to do about it.
I thought about moving her to the QT, but if it is velvet, then presumably our QT is also infected from the week that the Chromis spent in there (I assume it would also be in all the filter material, so to clean it out we'd essentially have to start with a completely un-cycled tank (new water, new filter material, no live rock/ substrate)). I also don't want to risk treating the QT with copper with her in there (I've read on WWM that it can be done with puffers, but that it's risky), but due to the speedy nature of the problem, would want to act ASAP...
Also, if it's not velvet, and is just bullying, then we'd be putting her through unnecessary stress, and back into a small tank that we don't have any good way of keeping good water quality in without any liverock...
Please help!
(I don't know if you normally reply by email, or just post onto the site, but if possible, could you please reply by email so I know as soon as you've replied?)
Thanks so much
-Jo
<We do respond to all directly... I fully suspect as you state that the larger part of the source of mortality with these damsels is/was trauma... before you received them. Some batches of Chromis do "just die" easily... likely resultant from the vagaries of collection, holding, shipping... and your system is very new... and not really large or a good-shape for these Damsels... I would NOT treat the tank... Nor really add any more Chromis spp. Do wait a couple of weeks... and re-formulate a stocking plan, chat with your stockists... Cheers. Bob Fenner>

Chromis Eat Too Much? Other Fish Don't Get Enough? ...Environmental Problems 7/7/07
<Greetings Mich here.>
I have a 6-month-old 20 gal. marine tank and I'm definitely still in the learning phase.
<Yes, hopefully we are all still learning!>
After setting up and cycling the tank, I added some live rock, a blue damsel and a striped damsel. The damsels did very well and ate eagerly. I added 2 peppermint shrimp to eat the Aiptasia anemone that had sprung up, and within a few days that was all gone.
<Glad to read of your success.>
I replaced the damsels with a coral beauty, a firefish, and more peaceful damsels (3 green chromis) a few months ago.
<In a 20-gallon tank!?!? WAY OVERSTOCKED!!!!>
After removing the striped and blue damsels, the shrimp were a lot less intimidated, and are usually out in the open.
<OK.>
I've since started feeding the shrimp one "crab pellet" each, which they love (they eat it right out of my hand). pH is consistently between 8.2-8.3, but Nitrates have been tough to keep low (they're always between 10-15 ppm), despite feeding only once/day and in small amounts.
<That's because this tank is highly overstocked.>
In fact, I feed such little amounts and the fish feed so aggressively, I sometimes wonder if they're getting enough!
<Possible.>
I have a large filter that moves a lot of water (50 gal. model) plus a small power head, but no protein skimmer.
<This could help. Regardless, you have too many fish in much to small of a volume!>
I need to clean the algae off the tank walls every week.
<Likely related to excess nutrients.>
I have added a few snails to eat the algae, and they lasted for about 2 months, but eventually died.
<Your nitrates are elevated. Environmental issues likely at work here.>
Unfortunately, the coral beauty also died within a week of contracting Ich, which it got right after I mistakenly moved around the live rock that was embedded in the sand/gravel during a cleaning.
<No, moving rocks did not caused the Ich. Akin to saying you will catch a cold if you go outside with out a coat. The Ich is in you system now. You need another tank, for quarantine/treatment and should allow your main tank to go fallow for 4-6 weeks. More here and the many related links in blue:
http://www.wetwebmedia.com/ichart2mar.htm
http://www.wetwebmedia.com/ichartmar.htm
http://www.wetwebmedia.com/treatmen.htm
http://www.wetwebmedia.com/quaranti.htm
http://www.wetwebmedia.com/QuarMarFishes.htm >
The firefish survived that OK, but died about 5 weeks later very suddenly (within 12 hours of not looking good, he was gone). The green chromis have always been total chowhounds. They eat 90% of what I put in (frozen omnivorous, carnivorous, mysis, etc.). Very little ever got to the coral beauty or the firefish.
<Lack of food was unlikely the issue here, more likely the environmental conditions.>
I'd like to put another coral beauty or flame angel in the tank, but I'm worried that the chromis will continue to dominate the feedings.
<You should NOT put a Flame or a Coral Beauty in such a small system, it simply is not big enough.>
Should I remove them before adding anything?
<You are basically maxed out with the chromis. I would not add anything more to your system. You have several issues to address. In my opinion it is foolish not to employ a QT tank. You would be wise to invest in a hospital/QT tank. Or use what you have and consider a larger system. You are walking a dangerous line here my friend. Your system is very small. It doesn't sound like you are regularly QTing new livestock, you are overstocking this small system and you could use more knowledge/understanding about disease processes. I encourage you to read, learn and apply what you have learned. Mich>  

Re: Chromis Eat Too Much? Other Fish Don't Get Enough? ...Environmental Problems  7/12/07
<Greetings! Mich here again>
Thanks for the helpful info.
<Welcome!>
I've read through the articles about Ich, and they certainly make sense. I am bit confused however, between the advice in those links versus the advice I got from the LFS about Ich and how to treat it.
<OK.>
The advice in the links you sent discuss the various ways to kill off the parasites in order to keep the fish from getting Ich. The LFS guys told me:
- virtually all tanks have the Ich parasites in the water.
<It is difficult to remove entirely from the system.>
- a healthy fish has a natural level of immunity against the parasite; it's when the fish is stressed or has an otherwise weakened immune system that the related-related white spots appear on them.
<Any time the immune system is weakened there is an increased potential for illness or disease. However the parasite must be present in order for the disease to occur.>
- by disturbing the live rock that was deeply embedded in the substrate, I had released a lot of (bad) bacteria into the water, which when coupled with the rather large water change I did at the same time (~25%), probably stressed out the coral beauty to the point where the poor fish couldn't fight it off anymore.
<Environmental stress can certainly have a negatively impact on the overall health of the most any living creature, but the parasite caused the disease process.>
The reason this seems to make sense is that I had the coral beauty and the other fish for a good 5 weeks or so before the cleaning and they were perfectly healthy: clear eyes, reactive when I walked up to the tank, etc. I hadn't added any other fish or other animals during the 5 weeks. It was only after disturbing the rocks embedded in the substrate that the coral beauty suddenly became ill. I know the white spots can take a while to show up, but that would be an amazing coincidence that they showed up after 5 weeks, and within 24-48 hours of my aggressive cleaning.
<This could have been the proverbial straw that broke the camels back... The environmental conditions were far from ideal and this may have tipped the scale, The parasite may have been present in your system at sub clinical levels, is if indeed this was Ich that killed you fish, it is still present in your system, but the parasite is the causative agent.>
All the other fish never showed any visible signs of Ich before or since, even 8 weeks after the coral beauty died. The firefish died very suddenly (within 12 hours of initially looking like something was wrong) around 4-5 weeks after the cleaning, but never had any visible white spots. It didn't seem to me that it was Ich related, given the short interval of illness, and the lack of white spots.
<OK.>
So the thing that's puzzling me is if I never got the Ich parasites out of my tank, why didn't the other fish ever show any signs of it, especially the chromis which remain healthy and symptom-free?
<The Chromis are generally more tolerant of inhospitable conditions and the others may just have better resistance than the fish you lost.>
Thanks again for all your help!
<Welcome! Mich>
 

Chromis deaths, paucity of info.  – 06/13/07 Good Afternoon, <And morning> I have a SW tank w/ a small (apprx. silver dollar sized) Mono and small GS Puffer and about 5lbs of live rock (will be adding more shortly). Along with Adequate filter and power heads, etc. The 2 fish were both slowly (over the course of a month) changed from Brackish (spec. grav. 0.010) to SW spec grav 0.021) They are both healthy, active, eat well, show zero signs of aggression, zero signs of disease (that I can see). The problem is as follows: I added 3 blue/green Chromis to the tank. They were slowly and properly (according to the FAQ section, my experience, and LFS recommendations) and looked extremely healthy. They were active, ate flake food readily, seemed to get along with the other fish very well, and were vibrantly colored. No signs of aggression on either side. I watched the tank quite a bit last night to be as sure of this as possible. The problem is that this morning, 2 of the fish were dead. There were no visible signs of disease or being attacked by the other fish.. and all water parameters are as close to perfect as possible. Do you know of any obvious reasons they would be dead already? It seems very fast for them to not live. Thank you Eric <Mmm... likely too-stressed/damaged poor-initial health stock mostly at blame here... But, could easily be largely pushed by some aspect/s of water quality... Which you don't mention much re... Nor the size of the system, nor its filtration... I'd be reading on WWM re. Bob Fenner>

Re: Chromis, hlth./sys.  – 06/14/07 Thank you for getting back to me so quickly. As for the parameters, all were at/near zero, (ammonia=0, nitrites=less than 20ppm, nitrates=0) <Mmm, these last two factors are flipped> Ph was a bit high (correct) at 8.3. <Mmm, not high> The temperature is consistent at about 77 degrees. I actually have a few additional questions. My tank is a 20gal high (yes I know, it's VERY small.. I realized this after the 100's of dollars in investment and time (it's weird but most SW beginner's I've talked with originally think a smaller tank is better to start out with than a larger one. Too bad it's the opposite that's the truth) anyway... so my "plan" is to have a total of 3 Chromis in the tank, and that's it). <Not likely enough room for this genus' species...> However, I am planning on upgrading the tank soon. <Wait on the stocking then> (and will use the 20gal as a QT tank)... As for the questions, how big should the mono be before it's absolutely necessary to upgrade his tank size? <Mmm, might I ask reciprocally, how much money do you need to have before buying a new car? Does this sort of "order of events" bear affinity for you? Your needs (and your Monos) may supercede your means...> (I will be giving it to a friend of mine that wants the mono)... Also, Can I add live rock slowly to the tank? 1-3 lbs at a time? <Yes... posted> Also, in an attempt to "aerate" the sand (I thought sand was troublesome in that it can create anaerobic spots, but I learned through much reading that the anaerobic problems usually were in a sand bed of at least 1.5" (mine is under 1") but less than 4''. I have been lightly moving the sand around about 1 time per week. After reading that I really shouldn't be doing this, I will stop, but will that increase the cycle time significantly? <No> As you can see, I'm a beginner with SW tanks (experienced with FW, but this is my first trial with SW), and read this website as well as many other's.. I really research a lot, and definitely appreciate the help a great deal! Thanks again, Eric <Am glad to share with you. BobF>

Pt.3 Bioload and stocking Q's 4/26/07   5/2/07
Thanks again for the response.  
<I'm all your's.>
When I mentioned that I will be putting them in all at once I meant that I will be buying all five of the Chromis at the same time and then putting them into the DT together.  
<Ahh... Then I think you will be fine with adding five little Chromis all at once, when the time comes.>
That's why I was wondering if 5 Chromis in a 10 gallon QT tank is too much.  I will be spacing them out for six weeks (how long I will be keeping them in QT before putting them in) but with the clowns and Chromis since I am going to be buying more then one of each I assumed that it would be OK to put each group in together.  Is this wrong?
<You are right on the money,. I just need to pay better attention to what I read.
-GrahamT>

Green Chromis with white blotches? No useful info.   2/24/07
Hi, I recently got three green Chromis. They all seemed fine, then one of them developed kinda like white blotches on his body, almost like he lost color in certain spots. The next day they got reddish and the day after he died. He was also having trouble breathing. The same thing happened to the second one. We are now left with only one and he has been doing fine until today. He too is developing the blotches which are again white like he's loosing color. It is only visible under certain light but you can also see faint bits of red under the white (if you really look for it). I've researched different diseases but nothing looks or sounds similar. Pleeeeease help!! By the way, when I won't back to the pet store to purchase more Chromis, two of them had the same thing going and we basically got told they were not well, so we didn't get them .They weren't able to tell us what it was. Anything you can think of?
<Mmm, well Chromis species do take a beating at time in the process of collection, holding, transport... and subsequently die in droves...  missing scales as you related... Do you have no other livestock though? These losses could easily be the result of a myriad of "bad environmental" influences... You do have water test gear? Please read here: http://www.wetwebmedia.com/toxictk.htm
and the linked files above... till you get the gist of what sorts of information, events I'm referring to. Bob Fenner>

Re: Green Chromis with white blotches?   3/3/07
I actually went back to the store where I got my Chromis because I wanted to take it in for them to look at him. My water quality is great by the way. The guy at the store explained that green Chromis get this disease and that even he isn't sure how to treat it. He has tried all kinds of meds but nothing works. Once they get that white blotch/ stripe they just die a couple of days later.
<I have seen this at wholesalers, yes>
He assured me it wasn't anything I was doing, since their  systems are up to par and they get it there too. It may be from handling but as far as he knows it is not treatable.
<Do agree with this statement>
It also seems to be contagious for only the Chromis ( I have a couple of clowns, a cleaner shrimp and some snails and they're all doing great). So, for anyone that may have the same problem, there may not be much you can do.
  Thanks for the help.
  Please let me know if you can think of anything. As I said, it's not a water quality issue.
<I do think this condition may well be resultant from collection... Chromis almost always live in/near Acropora and other arborose stony corals that they immediately dart in and amongst the branches if threatened... Most are caught by some means of anesthetizing or poisoning the area or removing this coral to the surface (Yes, not good for the coral or fish), and shaking it out... Bob Fenner>

Blue Green Chromis Dying   1/8/07
Bob,
<Leslie here this fine evening>
Searched FAQs.  Found a few regarding the red spots (look like internal bleeding) on Chromis.  We turbo started our tank and bought 2 false clowns and 4 b/g Chromis.  One of the Chromis got a red spot - and very quickly - one would die another would get it - until it wiped out all four of them.  Clowns are still alive and doing great and a blenny too.  This was 5 weeks ago.  We test the water weekly at the store - everything is great.   90 Gal Tank with about 14 lbs of live rock - with a refugium.  We just bought another 6 b/g Chromis from another store Friday night.  Same thing - one died Saturday - one is at the door of death - and I can't get to him Sunday - probably dead today - three of them I scooped out - not taking any chances - rather loose the money - than loose other fish.  One seems to be healthy no spots and swims with the clowns.  Whatever it is - it only seems to bother the b/g Chromis.  Clowns are still fine and our lawnmower blenny is still fine.  As well as several invertebrates (snails, crabs, shrimp).  Do I need to worry about treating my water to avoid infection on other fish.
<It’s not really advisable to treat the main tank. Sick fish are best treated in a hospital or quarantine tank.>
Or where these fish already doomed somehow?  
<Not necessarily. However I would keep a close eye on them.>
Any input is highly appreciated! Brian
<It is always a good idea to do some extra water changes when there has been a problem like this in a tank….. “dilution is the solution to pollution” as it has been put in quite a few other articles. This goes for pathogens as well.  You could place UV on the tank for a while. One of your best ways to avoid problems like this in the future is to quarantine all new additions for a minimum of 4 to 6 weeks.  to avoid problems like this. Please do have a look at the following links for some insight into how to keep your tank healthy…..
The Three Sets of Factors That Help Determine Livestock Health
http://www.wetwebmedia.com/mardisease.htm
Quarantine of Marine Fishes
http://www.wetwebmedia.com/QuarMarFishes.htm
Quarantining Marine Livestock
http://www.wetwebmedia.com/quaranti.htm
HTH, Leslie>

Blue/Green Chromis  9/3/06
Dear Crew:
Thank you so much for all of your help and I have yet another question that I can't find the answer to.  I have 3 Green Chromis in my 55 Gallon Tank.  I had a Coral Banded Shrimp that I removed because he was harassing them.
<Yes... Stenopids can/will eat fishes they can catch...>
It has been a week since I removed him but today I noticed that one of the Chromis has most of his tail missing.  My fear is that it is tail rot.
<Mmm... unlikely as a "stand alone" problem... that is, what is the root cause?>
  I have searched the Internet and can not find any pictures that look similar.  He is eating fine and his color is great.  Do you think this is just signs of aggression?
<Possibly>
  As always your help is very appreciated.
Thank you,
<Please read here: http://www.wetwebmedia.com/damseldisfaqs.htm
and the linked files above. Bob Fenner>

Green Chromis... beh. dis? Sys? No useful data   7/31/06
Dear WetWebMedia Crew;
<Brendan>
    I added 4 green Chromis to my tank several days ago  (4) and they were doing just fine until this morning. One of them has stopped  schooling with the others and is staying under a rocky overhang out of the  light, which from what I understand is a possible sign of illness.
<Of some sort, yes>
He also has  hugely swollen lips with his mouth wide open, and only swims in place at  approximately a 45 degree angle.
<Not good>
He has no other signs of illness, no spots that  I could see or messed up scales or cuts of any kind. He was just fine in the  store and was fine until this morning. So I was wondering: what is the matter  with him, is it contagious, and what should I do?
Your advice would be dearly appreciated.
Brendan
<... Please read here: http://wetwebmedia.com/chromis.htm
and the linked files above. Bob Fenner>

Blue Damsel - Danger?  5/12/06
Dear WWM Crew - Hello from Central Florida....
<Hello from rainy Chicago>
We have searched for an answer to our dilemma on all sites we could find with FAQ's on Blue Damsels to no avail....
So, our query is this -- our Blue Damsel has suddenly sprouted a 'growth', for lack of a better description, on his back. It looks like a whitehead pimple. Is this dangerous? He eats and swims quite normally....hmmm....can you help?
<Hard to say without a picture, but I would guess Lymphocystis, Google this and see if it fits.>
Mark and Tom of Lakeland, FL.
<Chris>

Stocking question/ sick fish (Chromis)    4/14/06
Hello WWM crew, before I begin let me say that the service you provide for us hobbyists is greatly appreciated, you do a great job so please keep up the good work.
<Am trying...>
Currently I have a 100 gallon long aquarium with built in skimmer box, a 20 gallon refugium harvesting Chaetomorpha, and a 30 gallon sump containing a Euroreef skimmer CS135.  I have roughly 150lbs of live rock, and maybe 80lbs of aragonite sand.  In terms of lighting I have 2 13K 250 watt PFO halide pendants, 260 watts of compact fluorescent supplemental lighting, and 2 moonlights. System has been running for 14 months and water quality is good (salinity <1.024>,ammonium 0, nitrite 0, nitrate <undetectable>, phosphate <undetectable>, alkalinity <2.9meq/l>, calcium<350ppm>, temp is kept between 76-78 degrees Fahrenheit.  I use Aquarium Pharmaceuticals Test Kits for everything.  My fishy friends include a 4" hippo tang, 3" Kole tang, 2 false perculas, a sixline wrasse, and 3 Chromis damselfish.  In terms of invertebrates I have a 5" tridacnid clam, a brittlestar,  a gorgeous BTA ( I know...bad....but I'm determined and resourceful), and frogspawn and hammerhead corals which grow and split continuously.  I change 15 gallons of water weekly, and feed a mix of Mysis, krill, blood worms, and Spirulina.  I have a couple of questions and will enumerate them for simplicity.
<Good, and sounds good... except for the mis-mix of cnidarians thus far>
1.)  In terms of stocking, Have I overdone it?
<Just not done it right... I would likely remove either the scleractinians or the BTA>
Right now I don't notice any aggressive behavior among the fish.  I was interested in adding a flame angel, would this be a bad move?
<Should be okay here with the mix, crowding>
2.)  One of  my Chromis is refusing food and seems to either hang around the filter box or end of the tank.  I don't see any signs of external parasites or disease and the other fish don't seem to be harassing it.  I have owned him for almost a year now and am quite attached.  I was planning on just moving it to my 10gal QT tank and  hoping for the best.  Is this okay, is there any kind of medication I should attempt?
<I would not medicate this animal, nor likely move it. Try "other" foods. It may "just" be "old"... Bob Fenner>>

Darkening Chromis  12/21/05
Hi Crew, I recently purchased thirteen green Chromis to start off the  system in my 330 gallon tank. They all looked great except for one who was  missing
his upper lip and an 1/8 of his right pectoral fin.
<... such "cut" damsels should be avoided... all in a batch>
This didn't  seem to be a problem as he was active and feeding well. Today I noticed  that he is almost completely tinted a smoky black color (he looks like he is  dirty). His eyes are also brown or black, even in the iris.
<Good descriptions>
I am feeding  the school an enriched flake food that helps prevent color loss and he has been  eating just fine.
One of the others also appears to be beginning to be darkly  tinted and I don't want it to spread. Is it anything I need to be concerned  about?
<Oh yes... whatever predisposing factor/s are at play (likely rough handling, starvation... possibly cyanide or other toxic capture technique...) may spell the end for this group of Chromis... Only time can/will tell. You can read more re Damsel, Chromis Selection, archived in the FAQs on WWM. Bob Fenner>

Help - Losing Chromis  12/9/05
Hi there,
<Hi Matt!>
Got some Chromis, had them for about 2 months, I then noticed that the stomach of one was indented.. very thin.
<Starvation for one reason or another...>
<<Chromis are often (not always) collected with cyanide.  Cyanide destroys the gut lining of fishes, disallowing ab/adsorption of nutrients.  This effect can take many, many months to present.  Thus, the fish eats, but starves to death, much like King Midas.  A read through the Industry Forum of reefs.org will net much information, with contributions from many experts in the field.  Marina>>
Two days later I found him in the sump. He was the biggest of 5 in a 105 Gallon system.
<Just too weak to avoid the overflow.>
Last night another of the Chromis was swimming poorly. Today I found him in the overflow.. barely alive due to stress.
He has now died.
<Sad. Might be time to re-evaluate your foods and feeding routine.>
I believe I have a Mantis shrimp in my tank due to a clicking and there are a heap of shells and bits of rock that are being removed from my rocks.
<Sure sounds like it.>
The only things in the tank are a brittlestar (small) two Clowns, an anemone, a couple of blennies, two small tangs and some snails. At night the clicking is insane but no matter how hard I try...and I  have tried a lot.  I have never seen what is causing the clicking.
<Yeah, almost certainly a mantis.>
When we first put the rock in we caught a thumb sized Mantis shrimp and last night I saw what looked like a straw sized millipede crawl out of a rock where the clicking originated.
<Did this 'millipede' have little bug-eyes on stalks? If so, that's a mantis. If not, might have just been a bristleworm.>
Could my Chromis be the target of one of these guys?
<No. The Chromis' died from starvation, either because of issues with your foods or routine, or internal parasite. The mantis is most likely eating snails.>
It is really hot in Sydney and my tank is sitting at between 80 and 84 F. Having said this the anemone is ok and in my experience they're usually the first to go when water quality and heat are the culprits. What you do think?
<84f is pushing it, but livable. Don't let it get any hotter.>
Regards - Matt
<Happy Holidays, Lorenzo> 

Chromis in Trouble... just crowded 9/19.5/05
Dear WWM and Thank You!
<Welcome>
One of our little blue green Chromis fish isn't doing well.  After a recent move from a refugium to a nanocube (24 G) it has begun swimming vertically more than horizontal, not eating and seems to look stiff in its lower body front fins...as if some paralysis there.  Also rapid breathing.  No spots visible on fins. Its 4 other comrades (all Chromis) are fine (all moved at about the same time).
<Social "disease"... this is too small a volume...>
Could a bristle worm have stung it?  We have a few of those fellas in the nano.
<Not likely... they need more room... likely will die off one by one in a similar way...>
PS There was a death in our nanocube of a yellow headed sleeper goby for no apparent reason last week so I temporarily moved nano fish to our refugium.  We did a 5 G water change in the 24 G nano, then after we checked water parameters (all fine), returned the fish. (1 tiny percula, 4 tiny and one medium Chromis).
My only intervention thus far (48 hours ago) was to return sick Chromis to refugium, where he sat on the bottom and looked worse so I put him back with his friends.  Hindsight I shouldn't have handled him this much but the fish let me catch him very easily.  On a positive note, its been 4 days and though not eating the sick Chromis is more active today.
<Good... but would still remove all but two, or move all to much larger quarters... at least sixty gallons>
Please help if you can any advice greatly appreciated,
Teresa
<Bob Fenner>

Re: Chromis in Trouble  9/20/05
Thank you Bob... some comments below...
> Chromis in Trouble
> Dear WWM and Thank You!
> <Welcome>
> One of our little blue green Chromis fish isn't doing well.  After a recent move from a refugium to a nanocube (24 G) it has begun swimming vertically more than horizontal, not eating and seems to look stiff in its lower body front fins...as if some paralysis there.  Also rapid breathing.  No spots visible on fins. Its 4 other comrades (all Chromis) are fine (all moved at about the same time).
> <Social "disease"... this is too small a volume...>
We considered that - but the four Chromises are small - all 1 inch or less.
<<Doesn't matter here>>
The one that is not doing well was the first one I moved, I wonder if I injured it when I transferred him?
<<Possibility>>
The others show absolutely no signs of trouble. We moved the sick one to a 10g quarantine, and is about the same - swims as if he's blind, can't see him eat, etc.
> Could a bristle worm have stung it?  We have a few of those fellas in the nano.
> <Not likely... they need more room... likely will die off one by one
> in a similar way...>
> PS There was a death in our nanocube of a yellow headed sleeper goby for no apparent reason last week so I temporarily moved nano fish to our refugium.  We did a 5 G water change in the 24 G nano, then after we checked water parameters (all fine), returned the fish. (1 tiny percula, 4 tiny and one medium Chromis).
> My only intervention thus far (48 hours ago) was to return sick Chromis to refugium, where he sat on the bottom and looked worse so I put him back with his friends.  Hindsight I shouldn't have handled him this much but the fish let me catch him very easily.  On a positive note, its been 4 days and though not eating the sick Chromis is more active today.
> <Good... but would still remove all but two, or move all to much larger quarters... at least sixty gallons>
> Please help if you can any advice greatly appreciated,
> Teresa
> <Bob Fenner>
<<Am still of the same opinion... need more psychological room... BobF>>

Chromis, nano-cube, social disease/crowding  9/21/05
Dear Bob,
<BJ>
  Many thanks for your assistance re: blue green Chromis fish in trouble.  Gosh, well its getting late and I'm still wondering what to do with this fish, if you have any other advice in light of new events...I just want to make sure I've done everything I can for this little fella!
You said you thought it was a social problem with our nanocube 24 gal... I forgot to mention its is well established with lots of live rock but perhaps 4 fish was too much.
<Is>
  (Remember we had a mysterious death of a yellow headed sleeper goby previously.. but prior to all's been well for 6 months). So I moved the baby Chromis to QT.  I started standard Copper tx because I wanted to do something.  I feel so helpless!  The symptoms: not eating, paralysis of lower fins and hiding in the corner, vertical swimming... point to a possible parasitic infection or bacterial.  Some symptoms overlap so diagnosis can be confusing.
<Yes>
Well 3 days of treatment the baby Chromis started swimming in circles nonstop!  Have you ever seen such a thing?
<Yes>
What to do? Adverse rx to Copper?
<Likely so>
  SO I returned the fella to the refugium of the big tank (!00 gal w/ 20ish gal refugium) thinking this is best place with best water
quality.  Now.. two or three days later, still not eating, still swimming in circles like its gone crazy.  So please Bob,
<Not much to actually do... but hope>
Is there anything else I can do?  The waiting is hard.  Actually I didn't know if he would survive this long not eating but we added
vitamins to the QT water and have made your special "Mash" recipe with vit.s always feeding our fish the best we can!  (Thanks for that
wonderful recipe by the way!  All our fish love it!).
<I do hope it helps here>
We are speculating on this fish as to probable causes now that he is alone in the refugium.   Could it be I should've persevered with the
copper... and or treated for bacterial  (which in most cases is secondary)?
<No... I would've likely done what you did>
Should I just leave it alone and keep praying?
<I would>
Sidebar... my husband says he could've accidentally injured it in initial transfer ...so this could be some sort of brain injury?
<Possibly... happens>
  Why does he keep swimming rapidly in circles?  
<Perhaps such behavior in the wild bewilders predators>
Perhaps a fish can get enough nutrition through vitamins and food in the water while he recovers from whatever it is.
Anyway,  SO sorry to bother you again Bob.  You are such the expert and I'm such the worrier.  What would you do if this was your fish?  
<Nothing different>
How can I repay you for your time....
<You have, by sharing your concern>
You may find this interesting.  "Banana Wrasse Advocate"
We have a banana wrasse in the big tank who is just beautiful, and is actually an advocate for new fish!  Honestly she swims interference when there are tank disagreements, took a small lipstick Naso under her wing and repeatedly swims with her and brings her food.  Chases other  fish away so the new one can eat.  She sits on the bottom of the sand sometimes and watches our  every move.. even seem to be watching TV!  What a great fish!  A real sweetheart!  Always seems to be smiling....
<Call this one "Bob">
Fish are the most wonderful creatures.  Very calming and relaxing to have around.  All have their own personalities.
Well Ill stop rattling on. Thanks Bob again. for any advice you may have.  You are a real gem and your website is such a blessing!
The Mora Family
<Bob Fenner>

-Blue Chromis massacre!-
Hi Again, I thank you for your time and web site, it helps me so much. I have a maintenance company in Bakersfield, Ca. In my home I have  a  80 gal, 40 gal and a 10 gal tank used as a holding tank for new fish for my customers. Three weeks ago I bought 10 blue Chromis and within one day all had died with red blotches on them and some with Popeye. <Ouch, was the system tested before fish addition and once the problem started?> So I started moving the rest of the fish away from them and treated the tanks with MelaFix, to no avail. Within  three days all fish were dead. since them I have done a 80 % water change, and put each tank on my LifeGuard mechanical system for about 45 minutes each, it also has a U.V. in it. <This won't accomplish much> I waited three more days and entered 3 two striped damsels, in each tank. day two the 10 gal tank as no fish left, the 40 as 1 fish left and the 80 as two fish left.. In each tank has little live rock in them and the tanks have cycled two month ago. <For them to still be cycled, they had to have a constant ammonia source (like fish) in there ever since the cycle. If there was no detectable ammonia or nitrite, the pH was fine, and there was no blatant horrible shipping stressor or other catastrophe, you got bad fish.> All levels were normal and still are. <Well, if this is the case, then the fish you bought were likely doomed from the get-go. Again, you may want to test your salinity, temp, pH, ammonia, nitrite and make sure that no possible contaminants could have entered the water.> what is one to do ? <Large water change, PolyFilter (in case of chemical contamination), and potentially letting it go fallow (no fish) for a month to eliminate the chance of reoccurring disease. I hope this helps! -Kevin>
Le Roy @ Advanced Aquascaping

- Blue/Green Chromis -
We recently restarted our 65 gallon tank (after some much needed repairs) and decided on 4 blue/green Chromis as our starter fish. All 4 were bought at the same time at the same store. Within a day, the smallest fish developed a red bruise like spot just in front of his tail. At first we thought it was a small bite but within hours it turned into what looked like some sort of internal rupture. We tested for water quality and everything looked good. He was next to dead the next morning so we scooped him out. We replaced him with another b/g Chromis and the next couple of weeks went along without incident until this past Tuesday the next smallest fish developed the same spot. We have been testing regularly and doing all the necessary water changes and everything is fine. <If you are cycling the tank with these fish, then you shouldn't be changing water until the nitrogen cycle is complete. Changing the water will only delay the completion of the cycle.> He lasted a couple of days but we scooped him out this morning. These fish show no other signs of distress and eat and swim around normally until the very end when they have increased respiration and go into 'hiding' mode. <Hopefully they have many places to hide, yes?> Any ideas as to what this may be? <Low man on the totem pole perhaps... live stock compromised before you got a hold of it... toxic water conditions... there are many possibilities.> We are reluctant to start thinking of buying any other fish until this can be resolved. <Considering that you are using these fish as 'starters' you've got to expect some attrition. Do keep an eye on ammonia and nitrite as these are toxic to the fish.>
Cathy
<Cheers, J -- >

Crazy Chromis!
We have a 100 gallon tank that recently developed a horrible algae.  The closest we can figure is it's a brown diatom (?) algae.
<Usually eradicated by using RO/DI as source water...Silicates tend to cause this problem>
We have "vacuumed" the algae off of the rocks and done about a 25 gallon water change at each vacuuming.  We got another 30 gallon tank for the Chromis because they turned white, hovered straight up in a corner, and acted as if they were having seizures.
<That's not good...Lots of possible causes, ranging from some water chemistry issues to an infection of some sort...Do a little research on this...>
Our tank finally cleared, with little algae left in the tank, so we took everything "back home."  Much to our dismay, within six hours the Chromis were back in their corners, acting spastic.  Why are they doing this?  They are the neatest fish, so calming to the tank, (and to me,) I hate to see them this way.  This is our first saltwater fish tank, and we are definitely learning a bunch.  Any thing you can tell us would be greatly appreciated.  Thanks in advance, Anne  
<Well, Anne- I'm thinking that you may have measurable ammonia or nitrite levels in the water...Do check this out, and take appropriate actions (water changes, etc.) to correct.. Regards, Scott F.>

Chromis (1-13-03)
Do blue Chromis keep their intense color when they grow up? <If fed the right foods and kept in good conditions they should hold their color just fine.> or will they get drab the way damsels do?  how large will they get? <Well we just had some traded in at the store that are about 4 inches long and I suspect they are fully grown.  Cody> thanks!  Beth

Chromis Quandary
Hi Crew,
<Hey there, Scott F. here with you tonight.>
Continued praise for your excellent work.  A few questions for you:
<Alright...ready!>
I purchased 3 green Chromis and 1 Ocellaris clownfish from my LFS  about 4 weeks ago and placed them in a 20 gal QT tank.
<Excellent procedure.  Glad to hear that!>
After 2 weeks, I noticed that one of the Chromis was constantly harassing the other two, so I removed it from the 20 gal QT and placed it in a 12 gal QT (by itself). Everything appeared to be OK until one of the 2 Chromis (in the 20 gal QT) died about 2 wks. later, from what seemed to be tail rot.  The 2nd Chromis
(in the 20 gal QT) also showed signs of tail rot but the clown fish seemed fine.  I treated the fish in the 20 gal QT with Furanace and the 2nd Chromis now seems to be OK and its tail is growing back.  The aggressive Chromis in the 12 gal QT did not show any signs of tail rot and was not treated.
Questions:
1) How much longer do I need to quarantine these fish (i.e., 2 fish in 20 gal QT and 1 fish in 12 gal QT) before I place into my 72 gal display tank?
<If it were me (and I have done this before), I would start the clock again.  Meaning another 3 weeks in the QT for these guys just to make sure that everyone is healthy.  I know it's not fun, but it's the correct way to do it, IMO.>
2) If I do not need to quarantine the Chromis in the 12 gal QT for an additional period of time, should I put it in the display tank or will it become territorial towards other fish once I add them to the display tank.  (Note: the display tank does not currently have any fish).  Or should I return the aggressive Chromis to the LFS and try to exchange it?
<Great insight and interesting question.  As you know, these fish can occasionally become rather territorial, particularly if they are the first fish in the new tank.  I would either add this fish when you add the other fish (i.e. three weeks as discussed above), or exchange it for a more docile specimen.  However, you will still have to quarantine, of course.  And, there is no guarantee that the fish that was docile at the LFS will remain docile in your tank!>
Also, I would like to move into phase 2 of my stocking plan and buy the following live stock (for quarantine):
-3 Peppermint Shrimp
-2 Cleaner Shrimp
-1 Blood Fire Shrimp
-3 Green Chromis
-1 Yellow Tang
-1 Watchman Goby
-1 Algae Blenny
<Very nice choices assuming that your tank is large enough to accommodate all of your animals.>
Questions:
1) If I move the two fish currently in the 20 gal into the 12 gal tank (with or without the aggressive Chromis), can I then use the 20 gal QT for the new live stock (after performing a 100% water change in the 20 gal QT)?
<Sure, it will, after all, still be a quarantine tank and you can treat as necessary in that tank.  Of course, do be mindful that the inverts do not tolerate medication if you have to medicate your fishes while in quarantine.  In other words, I wouldn't quarantine inverts and fish together.>
2) Is this too much live stock to quarantine in a 20 gal tank at the same time?
<I would say that is pushing it a bit.  Go slowly and get a couple of fishes at one time.  The tang, in particular, need a significant amount of space and good water quality.  Be mindful of this.>
3) Will the new live stock be compatible in the 20 gal QT during a 3-4 wks quarantine period?
<With the exception of the inverts and perhaps, the tang, you could probably combine these animals without incident.  Keep an eye out on those Chromis.>
4) After performing a 100% water change, will the 20 gal QT be safe for invertebrates (after the prior use of Furanace in the tank)?
<Yes, but I would recommend running a Polyfilter and/or activated carbon for a few days prior to adding the inverts just to make sure that you get any residual medication out of the system.>
Thanks for your help, Ade
<My pleasure Ade.  BTW.. if you have a moment, check out Conscientious Aquarist, Issue 2, online now on WWM homepage. Regards, Scott F.>

Air bubbles and fish spots...
Hello crew!
I just want to say thank you for all the time and support that you and your crew provide to these questions.  
I've been looking online for the answers to these questions, but I can't find the answers to my specific questions.  
First, I have fine air bubbles returning to my tank clouding the water.  I know, don't say it; I have spent days reading the past FAQ's.  My particular problem is that periodically (every 20 minutes or so), a surge of bubbles enters the tank.  It's like the air is building up in the pump, then it spits it out.
<Yikes, not good... can be dangerous to your livestock... there is an intake leak... somewhere... that you should look, listen for and fix... a spray bottle of water, a length of tubing... for spritzing on lines, fittings, the pump volute... and the tubing for listening for intake "hiss"...>
I have siliconed all my joints before and after the pump and still microbubbles.  I don't have bubbles entering the sump so it is not coming from there.  I'm really out of ideas as where this air is coming from and how to solve the problem.
<With someone helping, try pressurizing the line (blocking the discharge/s...) you may see water seep to shoot out of the intake source... otherwise try wicking a napkin/paper towel along the entire intake line... for water>
  I have a 150 gallon with 100 sump below.  
Second question is not a problem, I'm just curious if you have seen this before and what it is...
At night, I often use the flashlight to see all the different life forms emerging.  I have six green Chromis and when I shine the flashlight on them, they have large 1/8 inch spots on the fish.  During the day, they have no spots and they are healthy.  Disease free for months.  Have you observed this before?  Normal?  Should I be concerned?  
Thanks for your input in advance.   Dan
<Likely what you observe, describe well here are "nocturnal markings"... changes in the fish themselves that may aid them in the wild in avoiding piscivorous predators. No worries. Bob Fenner>

Tail rot (wherefore art thou causes?)
Hello Mr. Fenner,
I have just introduced 3 green Chromis damsels back into my system after leaving the system fallow for a month due to an ich problem. After 36 hours the tail of one of the damsels is nearly gone and the base is pink and irritated looking. What could this be? 
<Bunk quality Damsels plus stress likely...>
They were quarantined and received a dip of freshwater and Methylene blue just prior to reintroduction. The other two look and act fine. thanks Steve B.
<This one "got nicked" somewhere along the line... Take a look on the Damselfish pages on the site www.WetWebMedia.com and read the "Selection" area on the general Pomacentrid piece... many Chromis and other damsels lost in the early introduction phase. I would NOT "treat" this system per se... with chemicals, but would consider adding a biological cleaner. Bob Fenner>

Blue Devil Damsels
Hello again,
Thanks for getting back to me so quickly regarding my clownfish and coral question.
I forgot to ask you about my blue damsels. One in particular I have had for about 4 and a half years. She seems to be fine, but within the past few months, I've seen something quite peculiar.
I saw her floating belly up and assumed she had died, but as I neared the tank, she sprang up and swam away. I've witnessed this countless times now.
She stops swimming, her fins become erect, she flips belly up and drifts with the current and a second later she's alert and swimming around. Like she had a mini seizure or something. Any ideas?
<Mmm, this sort of "strange behavior" could be due to fatty degeneration inside the specimen (and hence spatial disorientation), some specific diseases (like Whirling), but in this case more likely due to "play"... A note here: simply going to the surface of the water is a "novel" experience for this species in the wild (they would be eaten almost of a certainty), so it's not so surprising to find that one/they might adopt other seemingly bizarre behaviors...>
Lastly, both my blue devils (especially the older one) seem to change color when stressed. When the older one becomes defensive or aggressive, she gets white patches throughout her body. When the fish she is threatened by leaves, her color automatically returns. I've started to notice this with my younger blue devil also. Any thoughts about this?
<This happens. Good observation>
Sorry about the lengthy message.
Thanks,
Ben Mendez
<No worries, be chatting. Bob Fenner>

Chromis viridis - blindness
Hello Robert,
Recently, one of my green Chromis went blind. In my desperate search to learn the reason for this, I have only managed to find two references, your mention of it on WetWebMedia, and the observations of a one DBW (aka: "the Caretaker") of www.ozreef.org.
<Ah, excellent company... and good searching on your part>
At any rate, I was hoping that you might be able to provide me with more information regarding this condition. How does it arise? Do I need to worry about the other members of the school contracting this disability? Is there a cure? Etc....etc....etc....
<In damsels this sort of complaint generally stems from either nutritional deficiency or disease (parasitic, infectious). There is some chance that this animal has age as a co-factor going against it as well>
At this point, the blind Chromis seems to have stabilized and seems to be getting enough to eat despite the increased difficulty for it to actually locate its food. Needless to say, I'd love to see it recover and any help/info you can provide would be most appreciated.
<Do try adding a vitamin and iodide preparation to these fish's foods ahead of offering. If the nutritional component is at play here this may effect a reversal. Good luck my friend. Bob Fenner>
Best Regards,
Steve Rider
(a concerned reef keeper in Munich, Germany)

Chromis viridis
Bob, one of my most favorite SW fish are the Blue/Green Chromis. (Chromis viridis) Small, peaceful, hardy and oh so beautiful. (a very under-rated fish IMHO).
<Agreed. I have a nice cover shot on this month's Das Aquarium magazine of a trio>
How long do they live usually?
<Probably a handful of years in captivity... do know of a few instances of 7,8,9 year old individuals>
I have seen very large 3 to 4
inch "Big" blue/green Chromis! I have had mine 10 months and bought them around 1inch. They have not grown very much in that time so I am wondering at how long will it take to grow them into the whoppers I have seen. 
<Not just a matter of time... as you likely know>
They eat everything I feed them (a very varied diet for sure) and they eat often.
I just thought there would be more growth by now. Water perimeters are excellent, food is varied and tank conditions seem as good as could be. Slow growers or am I not doing something right?
<Very large systems, water movement, lack of metabolites in their water, almost continuous feeding... are some of the predominant factors. Please read: http://www.wetwebmedia.com/optgwth.htm
Bob Fenner>
Zimmy

Chromis growth
Hi Bob,
I read the post from the guy who had the green Chromis for 10 months with no growth.
<Ah, wish there was some easy way to retain alls email addresses...>
I have three for over a year and they have tripled in size. They almost jump out of the tank when they see me coming at feeding time. 
<Very well trained!>
My wife calls them piranha, as they always attack the food first. When I got them they were under an inch and now they are pushing three inches.
I always wondered how long they lived. Happy to hear I should have them for at least four more years. On another subject, how long do cleaner wreaths live?
<Genus Labroides wrasses generally don't live for long in captivity, but the ones that do "make the transition" to aquariums have been known to live for a handful of years>
I have had one for several months it is always very active, and constantly cleans the other fish. It is right behind the Chromis come feeding time. I have read some of your posts and it appears people have trouble keeping them. Do you know the reason?
<A combination of phenomena... if I were to try listing the more important ones: shipping, holding trauma, collection damage, mouth damage totally (from bumping into tank sides, bags, nets...), "stress", a paucity of "customers"...>
I really like the little guy and want to make sure I can keep him in top health. Thanks for your continued support in this challenging hobby.
<You are welcome my friend. Thank you for your continuing participation and sharing. Bob Fenner>

Re: Six-line wrasse
Long time no email, been super busy...
<I see>
Just an FYI in case you are interested, but the Chromis didn't last long. I had ocellaris clown at the same time as the Chromis (didn't mention that last email) that is doing real well now. I think I've figured this out. The only thing the Chromis would eat were this frozen brine shrimp product, which I think was bad for the fish. 
<As an exclusive diet, yes>
The ocellaris would eat flake food. So for a week, this would be the case, Chromis only eating the frozen brine shrimp (I tried Formula One and Two and they ignored it).
<Many good foods to try besides these>
Both Chromis died shortly afterwards, no marks or cysts or any weird behaviour the night before. I'm now thinking they pretty much starved or had a bad reaction to this food (which I fed to all the other fish that died). I thought because they ate it so readily, that it was fine. But I now notice that anyone eating only flake food lives just fine, the rest die. Does that make any sense? 
<In some situations, yes>
I've since thrown that brine shrimp stuff away and now make sure that the pet store feeds them flake at least before I buy (paranoid now).
Thanks
-Jack
<Some degree of paranoia is healthy in many/most human circumstances... Bob Fenner>

Red Spot on Chromis
Hello team!
<whaaaasssupppp, Jesse? Anthony Calfo here>
I have a newly setup 75G tank (about 3 weeks old) which I'm currently cycling with 7 Blue-Green Chromis (they've been in there for about 10 days). Presently, the ammonia level has just peaked and is starting to be converted into nitrite. The fish have been very active and healthy (brilliant color, great body shape, etc), and had been at the pet store for several weeks before I got them. I feed them flake food twice a day (about as much as they can eat in 2.5 minutes), substituting frozen brine shrimp once every three days. They all eat voraciously.
Aside from chemical levels due to cycling, the tank parameters are decent: 1.023 sg, 8.3 pH and 79 degrees (since I could not get it cooler due to heat given off by my MagDrive pump, I just set the heaters to 79 and keep it there). 
<all fine>
The levels have been solid; there's been hardly any amount of fluctuation at all. My only source of concern, and as far as I can tell my only big mistake, is that I didn't do enough research before aquascaping the tank. As a result, I have several large pieces of lace rock in there. I've been contemplating taking it out, but have yet to decide whether or not this is necessary...
<may not be necessary>
Anyway, last night, I noticed a small circular red spot directly beneath one of the gills on one of the fish. It has grown slightly as of this morning. After reading just about all of your FAQs, it looks like a sore caused by bacterial infection of a wound. However, I have not noticed any damage before this.
<whether infectious or caused by mechanical damage... do watch carefully... medicated food might be therapeutic. Water changes wont delay your cycle if you do not disturb the substrate...consider this>
Also, I don't know how the damage could have occurred, since all of the fish are very peaceful with each other... The only source of strife at all is that, despite my best efforts, my cats like to sit on top of the tank and hang over the side looking in. The fish seem to be getting used to it, but they still get spooked when a cat first jumps up there.
<yes... a bad habit that could have run one into the rockwork>
Do you have any thoughts on what this spot might be or what I can do to help the fish? 
<too hard to tell yet>
I'll be beside myself if something I've done has caused them any harm Thanks for your help and for your website; it's without a doubt the greatest source of information I've found! - Jes
<water changes and medicated food for now. Observe for three to five days, if worse be prepared to remove the fish to a QT tank for meds. Best regards, Anthony>

Chromis
Hello Crew,
<cheers, friend>
I recently purchased a small school of 8 green Chromis. They currently sit in a QT. After initial observation I noticed one had a sore or bruise on its side so I quickly isolated this one and returned to my LFS for an exchange....no problems. 
<they are sensitive fishes to handling>
This morning on the fourth day of quarantine I noticed two other fish with the same sores as the one returned. But they seem very healthy swimming a close tight circle and are eating flake food. 
<hmmm... some concern here for the contagious expression of hemorrhagic septicemia... highly contagious. It runs its course quickly if evidenced: all will be fine or all will be dead within a week if so>
When purchasing there were several bruised fish swimming among the good. My question is could these bruises be because of the fish nipping at each other? 
<not at all likely to this extent>
the bruises are reddish with the scales slightly lifted or missing. What should I do? Treatment? 
<yes... lets hope that it is a mild bacterial infection. Try Furazolidone and Nitrofurazone mixed meds at double strength daily for 5 days. A large jar of Jungle brand Fungus Eliminator crystals should do the trick nicely in QT>
Many thanks again. Regards, Dennis
<best regards, Anthony>

Injured Chromis, Carpet Anemone, Corals
Hey Guys salutations!....
<Salute!>
I have a 150 gal reef tank with 3 Maldives clowns, 2 carpets, various SPS's, a school of 8 Chromis, and an Asfur. Today I noticed one of the Chromis' having one side of its scales ripped off by its gills. Its still active and eats with the school but is it a disease of some sort? 
<tough to say but unlikely... if so it may be quite a condition. Fears here of a Septicemia. Without a clear photo were speculating here>
The Asfur does magnificently disperse the school periodically in a fit of rage but I have yet to see him actually nip at one. 
<statistically he'll succeed one day if he hasn't already...Ha!>
My other thoughts are that I have lost 2 Chromis' to the carpets, I guess they stupidly float in there at night or something because on the afternoon after the disappearances my carpets spit out a meatless carcass of bones that suspiciously look like the frame of the Chromis.
<indeed>
Could this particular Chromis somehow brushed the side of its face against the carpet causing some blisters? 
<possible... but carpets are so potently aggressive I would expect a kill>
Everything seems normal, but I will make a water change today just in case. Give it to me straight...thanks!!!! 
<OK... separate the anemone and other cnidarians (SPS corals and the like)... its a long term recipe for disaster (3-5 year plan). Noxious chemical warfare and the motile nature of the anemone>
Oh yeah any good clubs to join in the Los Angeles area?
<Absolutely... MASLAC at http://www.maslac.org/ I'll be speaking there in two weeks :)
several other clubs in neighboring areas... SO CAL reefers, San Diego, etc>
Regards, Dennis
<best regards, Anthony>

Red Spot on Chromis
Hello team!
<whaaaasssupppp, Jesse? Anthony Calfo here>
I have a newly setup 75G tank (about 3 weeks old) which I'm currently cycling with 7 Blue-Green Chromis (they've been in there for about 10 days). Presently, the ammonia level has just peaked and is starting to be converted into nitrite. The fish have been very active and healthy (brilliant color, great body shape, etc), and had been at the pet store for several weeks before I got them. I feed them flake food twice a day (about as much as they can eat in 2.5 minutes), substituting frozen brine shrimp once every three days. They all eat voraciously.
Aside from chemical levels due to cycling, the tank parameters are decent: 1.023 sg, 8.3 pH and 79 degrees (since I could not get it cooler due to heat given off by my MagDrive pump, I just set the heaters to 79 and keep it there). 
<all fine>
The levels have been solid; there's been hardly any amount of fluctuation at all. My only source of concern, and as far as I can tell my only big mistake, is that I didn't do enough research before aquascaping the tank. As a result, I have several large pieces of lace rock in there. I've been contemplating taking it out, but have yet to decide whether or not this is necessary...
<may not be necessary>
Anyway, last night, I noticed a small circular red spot directly beneath one of the gills on one of the fish. It has grown slightly as of this morning. After reading just about all of your FAQs, it looks like a sore caused by bacterial infection of a wound. However, I have not noticed any damage before this.
<whether infectious or caused by mechanical damage... do watch carefully... medicated food might be therapeutic. Water changes wont delay your cycle if you do not disturb the substrate...consider this>
Also, I don't know how the damage could have occurred, since all of the fish are very peaceful with each other... The only source of strife at all is that, despite my best efforts, my cats like to sit on top of the tank and hang over the side looking in. The fish seem to be getting used to it, but they still get spooked when a cat first jumps up there.
<yes... a bad habit that could have run one into the rockwork>
Do you have any thoughts on what this spot might be or what I can do to help the fish? 
<too hard to tell yet>
I'll be beside myself if something I've done has caused them any harm Thanks for your help and for your website; it's without a doubt the greatest source of information I've found! - Jes
<water changes and medicated food for now. Observe for three to five days, if worse be prepared to remove the fish to a QT tank for meds. Best regards, Anthony>

Sick Chromis
I have a green Chromis that is having some trouble swimming/breathing. As per Scott F.'s advise I have moved him to a qt tank.  I now have some additional questions.  First of all since he is having trouble swimming should I leave the powerhead off to give him a break? or would the reduced flow rate be worse?
<I'd keep the powerhead on, maybe at reduced flow, to keep some circulation going in this tank. In fact, if the powerhead offers an aeration feature, I'd utilize it.>
He hasn't developed any white spots, but I wanted to
do something.  I went to the LFS, and got a pH so that I could match the pH for a freshwater + Methylene blue dip (I also bought the Methylene blue), but upon returning home I realized that I had bought another saltwater pH kit and therefore had no way to test the freshwater's pH. I felt stupid, but wanted to do something so I did a saltwater + Methylene blue dip. I know this won't be as effective as freshwater + Methylene blue, but it's better than nothing, right?
<Sure- the antibacterial properties of Methylene blue will still work in saltwater.>
After the dip (which went well at 15 min.s with no signs of stress, for him or me; not bad for my first dip) I could see tiny particles laying on the bottom of the bucket.  Could these possibly be the parasites that have infested my little buddy? Or
would they be too small to see with the naked eye?
<Well, hard to say...If it is Cryptocaryon, it's unlikely that you'd see the actual parasites...but you never know. The material could have been body slime or mucus, or some type of precipitate. But you never know!>
Oh, also the LFS was out of copper and doesn't sell copper tests, I was informed by the owner that he doesn't believe in testing (too bad he's the only one reasonably close to me)
<YIKES!! With "friends" like this...yuck...>
So, I am looking online, could you recommend a good test kit
brand? Also are there better brands of copper? Or is copper just copper?
<I like Cupramine by Sea Chem, and CopperSafe by Mardel. Both are good quality, IMO. As far as a test kit for copper, most of the ones that I have seen on the market are pretty good, IMO. Now- I like copper, but I wouldn't rush to use it unless you are certain that you're dealing with a parasitic infection. Some fishes do not do well with copper, such as pygmy angelfishes. Anyways- with your fish- be sure to keep up good water quality during his quarantine, supply high quality food, and observe closely. With time, and a little TLC, this guy can make it! Good luck! Regards, Scott F>>
Thank you for your time
-Luke

Re: sick Chromis
thanks once again for your help.  i had 3 green Chromis in my qt, and all was fine for over a week.  then one day i noticed one wasn't
schooling or eating and breathing rapidly in the corner.  then next day it was dead.
<Sounds like Amyloodinium. AKA velvet>
the other 2 were ok for a day more.  then the same thing
happened to another one.  now its been 3 days since the 2nd died and the last one seems to be fine.  eating a lot and swimming fine.  no white dots or fuzzy stuff
<Definitely velvet>
and no visible isopods, the fish looked perfectly
normal,  just rapid breathing and sitting in the corner.  i dissected the 2nd one and didn't see anything that looked like a parasite (with my crappy magnifying glass). any idea what this is?  
<Definitely and obviously (from your description), velvet>
could it have been something they had or did my qt tank have something?  i have a bi-color blenny that lives there full time and he seems fine through the whole event.
<He's a really tough critter>
or could they have had something all along that just got the
best of them after a few weeks.  they were eating and very social for the 1st week.  my water parameters in qt check out fine too.  if you do have an idea what it is, can you recommend a dip / medication?  my thoughts were flukes, but since the 3rd seems ok, i didn't know how contagious they were? thanks again, Neil
<This is just as contagious as ich. Please sterilize your tank before adding more fish. Check our disease files at Wetwebmedia.com There is detailed information about treating this and other diseases. David Dowless>
<P.S. I'm a former North Carolinian from Fayetteville! UNCP graduate!>
Neil A. Jacobs
Department of Marine, Earth and Atmospheric Sciences
North Carolina State University

Sick green Chromis?
Dear WWM crew,
<You got Cody today.>
I have a 29 gal. reef tank with (in order of their acquisition) 3 green Chromis, 1 orchid Dottyback, 1 bar goby and 1 coral beauty angel. Since adding the Coral Beauty, one of my green Chromis hangs out in the top corner of the tank, has lost coloration and does not seem "happy". His fellow Chromis come over to him and seem to try to nudge him into swimming with them, which he does occasionally, but mostly he just hangs out in the top corner of the tank. The fish are all healthy and my water has been tested by the pet store. The fish does not appear to have any signs of illness, but is obviously not feeling well.
Can anyone help with what I should do? Should I take him out of the tank or get something to shield him from the rest of the fish?
He seems to be ok physically... he eats a bit, looks a little thin to me... his fins are intact, although one is slightly ragged.
I wonder if he is stressed from the new (Coral Beauty) fish, who is much more aggressive than any of my other fish, chasing the others about, but I do not know what to do for the poor little guy.
Thanks, Diane
<  This tank is too small for the coral beauty and he will need to be removed.  After the coral beauty is removed the Chromis should recover with good feeding and water conditions.  This tank is already pretty well stocked as it is.  Cody>