Disease Problems...Too Many Fish  9/18/06
Hi there WWM,
I hope you can help me with my problem!  I have a 72 Gal tank with the bio-ball system (I believe is the wet dry system), a skimmer plus an UV.  My husband and I have had this tank and fishes for about 2 months now, and all the fishes were doing well.  However, we added 3 combo rocks (Live rocks with different types of vegetations) about 2 weeks ago, and about a week ago, we discovered ich on our Yellow Tang and the Naso Tang.
<Tank is/will be too small for keeping tangs and the wrasse.>
Since we have both fishes and some reef, our LFS told us to use Kent Marine's RxP.
<This isn't going to do much good for your problem.  Best to have a quarantine tank to put the fish into for treatment, and treat with a copper based
medication.>
We noticed the 2 lionfish that we have is <are> losing their colors.  Just this morning, one of the lionfish is turning white.......  I also have Dragon Wrasse, and it's fins are all broken and appears to be injured and not able to move correctly.
<Have you done any research on the wrasse?  They do require a two to four inch fine sand bottom, as they like to burrow at night or when threatened.  Larger grains of sand/coral can cause this damage.  Both, the tangs and the wrasse are not beginner fish, especially the Naso and the Dragon Wrasse.  Dragon Wrasses can grow up to one foot in
the aquarium and are not a reef safe fish.  As for the tangs, 8" and up in length can be attained.>
The wrasse has put himself in between rocks so he can be held up.  I monitored him closely all day, and it seems like he released a large white/clear bubble like object and moved out of the rocks after he released the object.  He is now hiding half way in the sand with only the tips of his tail and his head out of the sand.  his eyes were cloudy earlier, but it seems to be much better and restored back to shinny <shiny> black.  I have no idea what is going on with my wrasse and my 2 lionfish, does this all have to do with the ich or the medication that I am using?    Can someone from WWM help me?  I really don't want to kill the fishes.........
<Your issue is largely due to environmental conditions.  Too many fish for the size tank you have.  As for the fungus/bacterial infections, I'd use Melafix or a similar product.  Until you find homes for some of these fish, things will only get worse.  Do research fish before buying, know their needs, compatibility and tank size required for proper health.>
P.S.  I tested the water today:
PH : 8.1
Ammonia : 0
Alkalinity : 3 mEq/L
Nitrite : 0
Nitrate : 15
Thank you very much for your help and I hope to hear from you soon.
<You're welcome.  James (Salty Dog)>
cheers, Cathy

Re:  Disease Problems...Too Many Fish 9/19/06
Dear James (Salty Dog),
Thank you for responding to my e-mail.
<You're welcome.>
I stopped using RxP, and the lionfish's color are slowly coming back, and they do not swim like darts anymore.  However, I still need a recommendation on how to treat lionfish
for ich.......  I can set up a hospital tank, but what should I use?  Most of the methods that can use on other fishes does not work for lions, because they are too sensitive......
<Read here and linked filed above.  http://www.wetwebmedia.com/ca/volume_3/cav3i4/quarantine/Quarantine.htm
And read FAQ's on lionfish treatment here.  http://www.wetwebmedia.com/liondisfaqs.htm>  
As for the wrasse, we were told by our LFS that it is safe with reef.
<Not true, when young, not so bad, but as they grow...>
But I think he is poisoned by eating from the reef.
<Very unlikely.  I'm guessing more from a diet deficiency.>
he is doing a little bit better today, and I managed to scoop him and put him in a hamster ball in our tank, until I can get the hospital tanks set up.
<Not going to like this.>
We do have 4 ~ 5 inches of live Fiji sand on the bottom of our tank, we did this just for the wrasse, and he has been sleeping under the sand every night ever since we got him.
<Great!>
Is there anything I can do for him if he is poisoned?
<Again, very unlikely, and more from environmental conditions/diet than anything else.>
Any method I can do to help him flush it out of it's system?
<Ten percent water changes should be done weekly.  Will improve water conditions. These water changes should be done weekly to begin with.>
I already told my husband the 72 gal tank is too small, so he told me he will invest in a 150 gal tank at the end of the year, and we will make the 150 gal tank into a fish only tank.  As for our current 72 gal tank, we will make this a reef tank, so I can enjoy to have the smaller fish and shrimps.
<Good.>
By the way, we were told by our LFS that Dragon Wrasse and Naso tang are hardy, so they picked these fishes for us.
<They can be hardy, provided the proper conditions are met and your experience level increases.  On a scale of 1-10, (10 being the most difficult) I'd say the wrasse would be a 5 and the tang an 8.  I base my rating of 8 because the Naso is very susceptible to ich if high quality water conditions and diet are not met, along with a suitable sized tank.>
To be honest, they were all very happy in the tank together and they never fight with each other.  We would not have this problem if we didn't buy the combo rocks........
<Very unlikely this came from the rocks...pure coincidence.>
I guess even  invertebrates need to be quarantined for 3 weeks, just to make sure they do not carry any diseases!
<Some folks do this.  I never have, largely due to the fact that my LFS does not have fish in his live rock vats.>
If you have any suggestions for the treatment for the lionfish and the wrasse, please kindly let me know.  Thank you.
<As above, and the wrasse can be treated the same as the lionfish.>
Cheers, Cathy
<Good luck.  James (Salty Dog)>

New To Fish, No Research - 08/08/2006
I have a 30 Gallon tank and my husband and I knew nothing about fish.
<Hello.  Let me first apologize for the delay in reply....  Your email came to us in a state that very few of us can read; I apologize for my delay.>
We let the tank cycle for three weeks with 5 pound of live rock. Then we put two clown fish in it.
<Hopefully this was "actually" cycled....>
After a week we bought a Tiny Hippo Blue tang
<This fish cannot survive long in a 30 gallon tank.  It needs FAR more space than this.>
and of course she got ick
<.... ALL fish should be quarantined prior to adding them to your system....>
we treated them with medication and all of our fish died after all, we even give them a fresh water dip and nothing helped.  
<Need to research, here....>
Now we have a bare tank and we don’t know what to do. How long should we wait for the water and the rocks to be cleared of ick? And the medication in the water?  What would you suggest we start with, we really want to buy a bigger tank in a year could we hold a tiny blue tang in there for a year and then switch to a bigger tank. Should we put the Clown fish first and then the blue tank or the other way around?  We do not have a quarantine tank, what is the best suggestion to start all over?
<Please begin reading, researching....  Your questions are not unique, and have been asked by many beginners.  You'll find the answers to what you seek here:  http://www.wetwebmedia.com/marine/index.htm .  Wishing you well,  -Sabrina>

Spot on Marine Angel fish... owee from decompression procedure?   7/31/06
Hello crew,
<Laurie>
I've been researching on your website, but can't seem find an exact match for a possible issue with my marine angel.
I purchased a Swallowtail angel two week ago.  She is isolated in my QT.  
I did not freshwater dip her prior to putting her in the QT.  
<Not always advisable>
A few days after bringing her home, I noticed a small white bump on her side.  It's about the size of a scale.  I thought that perhaps it might be a single parasite, so at that time I did capture her for a buffered (baking soda to ~8.2 pH) freshwater dip (with Methylene blue).  However, I removed her after only 1 minute, as she started to thrash, which scared me.
<Can be scary>
Now, after about 10 days, it has turned a yellow-brown.  No other spots are on her.  I have decided to leave her in the QT until that spot is gone, but feel that I should know what it is, so that I can further treat her properly, if needed.
<Good. This is what I would likely do as well>
I tried to get a picture, but she freaks out at the camera and I can't catch her in a frame!
Oh - I added a skunk cleaner, thinking that if it is a parasite,
<Excellent>
or actually, anything else that needs to be cleaned off, that he could assist.  I have seen her letting him hop on occasionally.  But, the spot is still there.
Would you know what this spot might be?
<Mmm, likely a "sore" from the process of capture... most likely a/the entrance of a needle to "decompress" this animal... Many marine fishes are caught at depths that make such "gas bladder bleeding" expedient, rather than the long-wait of bringing to the surface slowly...>
Thank you for your help - both past and present.
Regards,
Laurie O.
<Keep your eye on water quality, and don't be too wary of moving/placing this Genicanthus sp. in your main system. Very likely it is relatively disease free. Bob Fenner>

Re: Spot on Marine Angel fish   7/31/06
Hi Bob,
<Laur>
Thank you.  That's great news.  I will plan on moving her this coming weekend, then.  (That will be a full 3 weeks in QT.)
<Good>
  Water quality is pretty good in the QT - ammonia and nitrite at 0; nitrate at 20 ppm.  I just did a 5% water change, too.
I have another, unrelated question for you, if you don't mind?
<Sure>
I was poking around yesterday, and found on this page:  http://www.wetwebmedia.com/mardisindex.htm; under the section "Biological/Pathogenic Disease: Identification, Pathogens/Agents, a photo that shows zigzag lines/trails on what may be live rock (or is it a fish?).
<Oh! Is a pic of nematodes, Roundworms encysted in the dermis of a Moray Eel...>
It is the fourth photo down in this section.  I looked at all of the links to the left, but could not find that photo in any of those links.  Do you know what the zigzag lines are?
<Yes... please see here: http://wetwebmedia.com/fshwrmdisfaq2.htm
about mid-way down... the same pic>
We've had three occasions of something looking exactly like these in our 110 display tank.
<Mmm>
  Twice on the glass wall, once on a rock.  We thought they were snail eggs.  But, now I'm worried, because your photo is under the disease section!  
Thanks again,
Laurie O.
<There are many such-appearing living "things"... likely what you saw were actually eggs... most likely of a mollusk of some sort. Not to worry re. Bob Fenner>

Dead Sea... Disease/Ich/QT  - 07/27/06
Good Morning Crew
<Good morning Mike.>
I've only been in the hobby (2nd career) for about 12 weeks now.  What a long bumpy ride it has been.  I feel like I'm in way over my head, but I feel like my investment of $ and time is too great to turn back.
<As you acquire knowledge, things become much easier.>
I'll try to keep this short.  About 3 weeks ago I had what I believed to be a mild outbreak of ich on 3 of my fish (Bi-Color Angel, Coral Beauty and Sailfin Tang).  In an effort to not over react I tried to maintain good water conditions with water changes and I did raise the aquarium temp. to 80-82 as well as lower the salinity to .017.  Things looked better for a couple of days and then last week I lost my bi-color angel, the other two looked o.k. but Saturday I noticed more ich.  I decided to remove the remaining fish from the tank to a QT tank I have running.  It was actually Sunday that I moved the fish to QT.
<Should have quarantined before placing the fish into the display tank.>
I was treating with copper in the QT tank.  I was making 25% water changes daily, vacuuming the bottom daily (prior to water change) and checking the copper in the a.m. and evening.  As of this a.m. I have lost all of my fish.
Secondary problem, since I have moved my fish from the main tank (I still have a few inverts in there . . . 4 cleaners shrimp, about 12 turbo snails and few hermits), I have had a really bad outbreak of BGA.
<Do read here and related links above.  http://www.wetwebmedia.com/bluegralgae.htm>
I'm at the point where I feel it's obvious that I'm doing something very wrong.  I don't want to keep killing fish and I don't want to throw in the towel.
With my main tank (now with a bad case of BGA), should I break it all the way down and start over?
<Not necessary.  Let it run fallow for at least 30 days, feed inverts sparingly, continue water changes and cater to advice from above link(s).>
Currently my set up is:  72 gallon bow front, I originally set it up with live sand and about 50lbs of live rock, I have a canister (Fluval 404), an external bio-wheel, a protein skimmer and since the ich outbreak I installed a uv sterilizer.  As of yesterday: ammonia 0, nitrites 0, nitrates .2, PH 8.3.  And right now . . . a lot of BGA on the substrate.
My QT tank (where I was treating with copper) is a 20-gallon, with sponge filter, heater and air stone.  When I set it up for QT, I took one of the sponges from the Fluval 404 (this left 3 of the 4) and used it in the QT filter for bio filter.
<Not a good idea to put components from a diseased tank into your QT.>  
If I continue should I re-start this tank with new water and filter media or just keep it going?  Should I add fish to it soon to keep the bio filter going?   If I use it for a QT for new fish do I have to worry about ich (since I had been treating with copper)?
<No need to restart, again, let tank go fallow for 30 days, then filter with a Poly-Filter or
Chemi-Pure to remove copper.  I would then change 25% of the water in this tank.>
I'm sorry to bombard you guys . . . I'm at a fork in the road . . . continue on? or give it up? and leave it to you guys . . . the pros.
<Do more reading, Mike, and have patience.>
Thanks so much . . . I wish I had a fraction of the knowledge the WWM crew possesses.
<You’re welcome.  James (Salty Dog)>
A very frustrated Mike
<Hopefully soon,  not to be.  All your personal information was deleted to protect your privacy.  Please
delete this info in future queries.>
Mike  

Remorse w/o recourse to study, Blindly listening... Disease, SW   7/26/06
I have a blue tang that had ICH. Everything was perfect until I listened to my LFS. They told me to put him in a bucket of water and use one tablet of Clout for 4 hours.
<?>
I thought that was too long and left him in there for 2 hours and 20 minutes. When I put him back to the display tank he was completely pale and looked like he was in shock.
<... was this water, system filtered, aerated during this interval?>
He was running into rocks and falling to the bottom on his sides, breathing very heavily and dis-orientated. I feel like I let this guy down and didn't research enough. Please let me know if there is anything I can do. I turned the lights off and I am praying! Thanks
<... Please read on WWM re Dips/Baths, this species (Paracanthurus), Cryptocaryon... Bob Fenner>

Marine Set-Up...Newbie Off To A Bad Start   6/1/06
Hi.
<Hello Andrew> I hope you can help because I'm getting several different responses from my local pet shops...
<Not surprising.>   
We just purchased a 55 gal. saltwater tank about 2 1/2 weeks ago. About 70 lbs. of live rock, Fluval 300 filter, heater, 2 ocellaris
<ocellaris> clown fish, 2 mollies, 1 serpent starfish, 1 cleaner shrimp, 2 hermits, 10 med. snails, Condy anemone,
<Should not have anemones with fish other than clowns.>
Blue Regal Tang
<This is not a fish for a new tank/new aquarist.>
and royal Gramma. I added all of the animals at different times. Except the clowns which were added simultaneously.  
One clown broke out with ick about a week ago and died yesterday. The regal has been showing signs of ick for about 5 days and won't come out of hiding. This morning she is barely swimming and floating near the bottom. I don't have a hospital tank but intend to get one this afternoon.
<Not going to do much good now, by the sound of it.  Should have bought the quarantine tank first.>
I treated (and am continuing to treat) the tank with an organic solution called "Ick Attack". This medication killed my anemone as of yesterday afternoon and my cleaner shrimp was dead this morning. The shrimp's death really shocked me this morning!
<Shouldn't use most meds with inverts, can be lethal.>
My Gramma seems to be okay, though he's hiding all the time as well.
My water levels are perfect - no nitrates, no nitrites, pH is good, salinity is about .021 and the tank is at about 80 degrees. I don't know what to do! Will a hospital tank (with the regal) be a cure-all? Is ick the culprit of all of this.
<Ich and little or no knowledge of the hobby.  Your dealer didn't help much either, selling you a Regal Tang, a difficult fish to keep for someone starting out.>
The regal does have white spots on her and her color is fading. The color of my clown is also fading fast.
<Not surprising.>
The mollies seem to be the hardiest - no signs of ick and are the best eaters, though they are always swimming at the top of the water...
<Will be there with the sudden salinity change.>   
I hope you can help! I'm at a loss...
<April, I think you went into this blind.  Have you read a book relating to this hobby as to set-up, cycling, QT tanks, compatibility, water quality, maintenance, etc before starting this venture.  Shame on your dealer also.  I'm going to guess by the time you get this, the Gramma will probably be the only survivor.  Do read this link and related links/FAQ's above in hoping you will get a better understanding of this hobby.  http://www.wetwebmedia.com/marineSetUp.htm>
Thank you!
<You're welcome.  A wonderful hobby, April, now it's time to get educated about it, and I'm not being sarcastic in anyway, just trying to send you down the right path.  James (Salty Dog)>   
April Slaughenhoup

Angel with cloudy eye   5/23/06
Dear WWM crew: I have recently introduced a moderate sized Emperor Angel into my 150 gallon fish-only system that contains only three other inhabitants:  Achilles Tang, Maroon clown, and Spiny Boxfish.  Although the angel appeared to acclimate well and is an assertive feeder, it has developed persistent "abrasions" on the pectoral fins and slight clouding of one eye.  The clouding is not diffuse (appears almost like excess mucous) and not accompanied by Exophthalmus.  The fish will occasionally "rest" between rocks, but otherwise is active and approaches anyone who goes near the aquarium.  My presumption is that the fin abrasions and eye abnormality are bacterial in origin,
<Mmm, most likely>
likely secondary to minor trauma or stress (water parameters are stable).  If I'm correct that the problem is not fungal/parasitic, would you recommend a nitrofurantoin-based treatment (in quarantine) such as Jungle "fungus eliminator?"
<... possibly... How long has this been going on?>
Is there any role for a freshwater bath given that bacteria are unicellular and should not be able to osmoregulate (like parasites)?  
Thanks for your advice, Dana
<As stated in articles, FAQs posted on WWM... five, ten minutes. Did you freshwater dip this animal as part of the original acclimation procedure? This could be something else... my next best guess is trematodes/flukes... Need for microscopic examination... Bob Fenner>

Re: Angel with cloudy eye  - 05/23/2006
Thank you for your reply.  The duration of symptoms is now approximately 10 days and began around 1 week post transfer from quarantine.
<I see>
  The other fish in the aquarium have not shown visible signs of infection, though the Achilles Tang was darting around for a few days (now back to normal color, swimming behavior).
<Not atypical for Acanthurus species... when new livestock, changes occur...>
  I did not freshwater dip the fish before or after quarantine.  As far as microscopic examination, I do have the equipment to perform this
analysis--the issue is how to procure a specimen without further stressing/damaging the fish.
<Mmm, I see you have a medical doctor affiliation... For what you have invested here, and into the future, I encourage you to seek out and borrow or buy a copy of Edward Noga "Fish Disease. Diagnosis & Treatment"... This single reference will grant you insights as to body slime slide prep., the current rudiments of pathology of ornamental fishes>
Therefore, since my original message, I made the decision to treat the fish in quarantine with Jungle's
nitrofurantoin-based treatment, again without a freshwater dip.  If I understand you correctly, do you believe that there is a role for a
freshwater bath even if the assumption of bacterial infection is correct?
<Mmm... well, if I/you were going to the "trouble" to remove, isolate this fish already, I would elect to process it through a pH-adjusted freshwater bath enroute>
Thank you again,
Dana
<I do hope this is clearer. Bob Fenner>
P.S.  I can try to obtain a digital image if things do not improve
<Appreciate this>

Sick fish - advice requested.- 05/16/2006
Greetings to all from Florida!!
Have an 80 gal. fish only with live rock which has been set up now for about two years.  Following are test parameters:
pH   8.4
Sp. Grav.  betwn 1.25 & 26 on hydrometer
NH4 0    
NO2 0
NO3 0
KH DH about 9.3 (Salifert)
The tank is running on a wet/dry with one power head in the tank, Remora Pro skimmer.  Have lots of Algae red, brown and purple.  Tonight my angel did not feed (pygmy type) and is hiding in the rockwork.  I noted that my ocellaris clown has a dusty look with some raggedy fins.  Have made no additions to this tank in months.  Am doing 5 gallon water changes each week.  Any suggestions you may have would be appreciated.  Thanks for listening.
Keith Ehrlich
<<Keith:  Fish are more susceptible to diseases at higher SG.  For that reason, many LFS keep their livestock at SG 1.019 or less.  Of course, that is not the best for the inverts.  On the chance that your readings are off, I suggest you borrow or buy a refractometer to check your SG since they are very accurate instruments.  Meanwhile, you could reduce your SG to 1.024, or slightly less, to help the fish.  Due to the live rock and critters on them, you would ideally want to catch the fish and put them into a QT for treatment.  There are very few products you would want to use a main tank with live rock and inverts.  If you suspect Ich, the best treatment is to put the fish in QT and slowly lower the SG to 1.009 (measured with a refractometer) and hold it there for 6 weeks.  Then, slowly raise the SG back to the level of the main tank.  Best of luck, Roy>>

Fish disease, parasitized system, poor grammar
Good Morning WetWebMedia crew,
<Dimitris>
Hope you and your fish are doing fine. I wanted to ask a question or two on fish diseases. Specifically, I have had a reef setup for 1 1/2 years now (before it was FOWLR w/ triggers) and now it houses a yellow tang, yellow Fiji tang, saddle back clown, yellow/purple Basslet, mandarin, orange Anthias and a 6 line wrasse. It used to also house a Scopas tang and a Kole,
<How large is this system?>
however, since last week the Scopas has been traded (too aggressive) and the Kole died after it stopped eating and showed a few white dots probably ich?) very tiny, barely seen.
<Likely stress was a very large component here>
I moved him to a Q-tank however he expired several days after. I also tried to lower salinity to 1.019 but nothing.
Now, the remaining fish are coming down with something since there is some scratching going on. The clown fights occasionally with the Basslet scratches, clown doesn't, but has cloudy eyes/dots, and some white stuff, doesn't look grainy on his body, I'd say just small blotches.
<Where are the spaces twixt your sentences? Arrrgggghhh!>
Those are visible on the yellow tang's tail even though he eats like a hog. Fiji tang is unaffected so far. 6 line wrasse is ok, no sign
of anything, and of course the Anthias looks healthy. no problem with the mandarin, I know they do not get ich or such).
My question is, how can I treat this without removing the fish?
<Can't>
I have been feeding Formula II flakes, NORI, Formula II frozen cubes, and lately Mysis and occasionally frozen shrimp. I also started offering medicated flakes provided by an LFS. I know that hyposalinity doesn't get rid of the spores/eggs, and It is impossible to catch the fish( I was able to remove the Scopas and Kole by pulling 150lbs of LR out of the tank along with 30+ corals mostly softies). Am I heading for disaster? It looks like this was caused by the Scopas harassing everyone, Kole came down with the disease and passed it over to others.
However, I had a clown fish in the past that came down with Brooklynella, and it seems that my new clown has something very similar. I also wonder if there is 2 or perhaps 3 types of infestations in the tank now?
Bottom line... this is a 165 g acrylic tank with a refugium and Caulerpa. Skimmer is EuroReef CS6-1, no biofilter. I was using a RO/DI PureFlo II) for water changes, however, the membrane/DI cartridge would only last about 2 months even after I switched to a KENT Hi-S DI cartridge water is extremely bad in this area-Clearwater, FL - and I started getting diatoms all over. TDS were above 70 so I stopped using the unit and switched to local supermarket water (Ozonated and DI). The diatoms disappeared. The only thing that remained was some black spots on the live rock looked like BGA) so instead of treating those chemically, I scraped/brushed off most of it when I removed the LR to catch the Scopas/Kole tangs.
I don't remember doing anything out of the ordinary to have caused this. Fish were fine for 1 1/2  years. My ammonia/nitrite are 0, and I do a 5 g water change every week. Everything was fine up until I switched to the other water. Temp stays at 82(no wild fluctuations).
Can the excessive fighting have caused this outbreak?
Thanks,
Dimitris.
<Have just skipped down. Please read here: http://wetwebmedia.com/parasittksfaqs.htm and the linked files above, part. on Crypt. Bob Fenner>

Question re: new fish with raised scales on only one side    4/6/06
I just picked this fish up today but didn't see the raised scales until I was home (well after the LFS was closed of course). All of the fish in the tank looked healthy, this one is active and curious and shows no other signs of disease. Could this just be constipation or some sort of bruising from a bumpy ride home? Are there other possibilities other than the dropsy or tumors?
<Yes, environmental, parasitic, nutritional... no info. on even whether this is marine, brackish, freshwater... or graphic/pic...>
There are 2 things to note here:
1. Raised scales on left side toward the middle of the body.
2. A lack of symmetry from left to right - maybe a bulge on the right near the tail. (maybe just imagined due to the raised scales and the fact that
the fish was actively swimming in the photo)
<Use the Google tool on WWM... for "dropsy"... read. Bob Fenner>

SW sick tank... mis-stocked, mis-treated, late knowledge    4/3/06
Hi
<Hello>
I am hoping you can advise me - before I lose any more fish!   
We started a new marine tank in October last year, it's a cube, 45 gallons - this was recommended by the local fish shop and sold to me as a 'complete marine setup'.
<I see>
So by February it was doing very well and stocked with:- A copper banded butterfly,
<This species needs more room...>
a small red starfish; a regal tang,
<Much more>
2 common Clownfishes, a flame angel, a goby, a mandarin,  a cleaner shrimp, a turbo snail, a red legged hermit crab and a blue/black legged hermit crab.   One medium sized pink soft coral (shaped kind of like a bell, or a vase)
<Perhaps a Goniopora, "flowerpot coral"... not easily kept>
and a piece of rock with coloured polyps on it. A new anemone,
<No...>
couple of weeks ago.  Tank was lovely, really interesting.  
<But totally mis- and inappropriately stocked>
I have live rock and on the advice from the shop on startup, two bags of live sand on the bottom (about an inch and a half covering the bottom). About 5 weeks ago the copper banded butterfly died suddenly, he hadn't been poorly  -
<Only as far as you're aware...>
we just got up in the morning and he was on his side and then died.  We did all the tests - all fine; did a major water change and a
couple of weeks later added a new copper banded.
<... no...>
One day last week he also died suddenly with no warning. Tests were normal and we took a sample of
water into the fish shop who thought the nitrite may be a little high
(although my own test kit showed normal)
<Nitrite should be zero>
and recommended a 50% water change which we did when we got home.
<Better to limit such changes to no more than 25% if possible>
Since then we have lost both clowns, then the mandarin (who had some white
faded patches one morning, dead next day).
<None of the livestock was quarantined I take it...>
Our regal tang the day before yesterday had sugar-like white spots all over her so I read all I could on
your site then went back to the fish shop yesterday and purchased all I needed to set up a quarantine tank which I did last night.
<Ah, good>
However, the guy in the shop told me not to use aggressive treatments, he told me to use
Kent Marine, expert Series Rx P (parasite treatment for marine fish and most invertebrates,
<Is worthless>
it says on the bottle) and treat the fish in the main display tank, moving out into the new tank the starfish, crabs, anemone and the
cleaner shrimp.  The tang no longer has spots this morning,
<Has cycled off... and will be back... you'll see>
she is swimming and eating fine but scratching herself on the rocks.  The other two show no sign as yet.  This is what I did, so the situation I have now is a main display tank with live rock and sand and the three remaining fishes (tang, goby and flame angel) that I have treated once with this RxP stuff. And the new tank that I filled with water from the display tank, with everything else in it.    My problem now is, after having read some more on the site I think that this may have been the wrong way round
<Agreed>
and I should have removed the fish, and treated them with something a bit more aggressive (the little man in the shop was very dismissive about copper or anything else).
<Perhaps he has reason/s?>
Do you think I have done things wrong, and if so how can I correct things before I lose my last three fishes?
<Mmm, having been one of these little (okay, medium sized) men in a shop for many years, and helped run a large service co. for a couple of decades, and done other work in the trade, I want to assure you that there are no safe and effective "in-tank" parasiticides... You do need to move all the fish life elsewhere... treat it with whatever you decide, and leave the main system fish-less for several weeks to limit/kill-off the parasite/s... likely Crypt here. Going forward, you should investigate before you buy, match your livestock for their habitat needs, compatibility... and quarantine before introduction>
  I don't know how to do a freshwater dip and if you feel this necessary can you tell me EXACTLY what to do as it
strikes me as being slightly cruel/dangerous to the fish?
<Dips won't help at this point>
Do you think this rather expensive treatment I bought will do the job?
<...>
If not, please help. How long do I leave the other ones (anemone, shrimp etc) in the separate tank and as I used water from the main display this presumably has the disease in it, how can I avoid moving it back into the main tank when I put those other animals back?
I am very grateful for your help.  Thanks.
Sue Baker
<Sue... read and chat with folks you deem knowledgeable till you understand the underlying facts, directions, consequences here. You are learning an important, though painful lesson... There is/are no "one answers" in much of this hobby/experience... but there are much more likely venues to attend. Bob Fenner>

Marine Aquaria; Lack of Research, Over-Stocking, Not Quarantining…..same old, same old  3/30/06
Thanks for all the articles,
<Quite welcome.>
but I'm not finding the answers I need.
<Hey Crew?!……We’ve heard that before huh?>
I'm a beginner at this, have had my tank almost a year and I'm having problems.
<I’m here to help.>
I have a 90 gallon fish only tank with an under gravel filter with 2 - 802 AquaClear powerheads
<Ooh….UG is probably the utmost worst possible way to filter marine aquaria.>
I am running copper.
<Mmm…I would not do that in the display, read WWM re.>
I do water changes religiously every two weeks, as my nitrates will run very high (100ppm).
<I blame the UG plates, read WWM re marine filtration, at the least you need a protein skimmer, I would suggestive rock but with copper in the system…..>
My salt water advisors/fish store sources here are limited, and all but my source in original advisor in Orlando want me to change to live rock, and other filter systems. I have recently added a used Magnum 350(date 2/22/06).
<Sorry to be negative but aside from UG, canister filters are also one of the poorest choices for marine filtration.>
Otherwise have had  no problems keeping Am 0, Nitrites 0, Ph 8.2
<100ppm nitrates is a big problem….need to be 20 or less for an F.O. tank.>
Presently
1 - Male Blonde Naso Tang 7"
1 - Yellow tang  4"
1 - Blue hepatus Tang 3"
1 - Dwarf Angel Coral Beauty 2.5"
2 - Ocellaris False percula clownfish (had 5 to start - 3 died late last year)
<You are grossly overstocked here dear, the Naso alone has a potential 21” size….and copper is not my medication of choice for surgeons to say the least.>
Most concerning presently are my Coral beauty, and hepatus tang which are scratching. Gill Flukes?
<…Could be a number of things including Cryptocaryon irritans: marine ich…..>
I've treated the tank once forgot what it was called/did not write it down, got it from my local advisor/fish guy who seems to be too busy for me and can not find any meds locally)
<Read WWM re: quarantine, any medicating needs to be done there not in the display.>
for this when only the hippo was scratching, now both fish are scratching regularly. What can I do?
<First you need to get control of your water quality through water changes, and other means of nutrient export such as the protein skimmer mentioned above….then you should identify the disease of any (the critters may just be suffering from poor water quality) and treat accordingly, read WWM re…>
In the last two months I've added a number of fish with problems.
<I would discontinue with the addition of livestock, the tank is overstocked as is.>
I know these places I buy fish from do not hold them before selling them - in one day out the next.
<This is not a good practice by the stores…..but even more prudent, it is a good reason for you to quarantine.>
2/10 added Square Anthias - believe it was the coral beauty nipped at him, but things were looking happier after a couple of days for the Anthias, but the yellow tang stopped eating, 4 weeks later Anthias died, yellow tang started eating again.
2/28 Added a blue filamented wrasse
3/6 my Royal Gramma Basslet of almost 8 months died in a 4 day time frame
3/7 Anthias dead
3/14 Wrasse dead
<Water quality and overcrowding are to blame, and possible disease form lack of QT.>
I'd like to add a few more fish again,
<You don’t have the room nor is your tank ready to accept any new livestock by any means.>
royal Gramma again, will research for others, but will take any suggestions you can give me.
<Well you mentioned you liked our articles, after reading your query I suggest you continue to read them.>
This sure can get frustrating!!!!! Lots of info on your web site searches, can spend way too much time trying to get specifics
<Well ma’am it is evident from your mistakes that you have not searched our site to thoroughly, if you had, you would have avoided many of the mistakes you had made. Other than that we would love to hear any suggestions you have regarding spending to much time and making it easier on you, the reader.>
Know this may be a lot to ask but do so appreciate your time and knowledge.
<Anytime.>
Brenda Crabbe
<Adam Jackson.>

Unexpected Deaths    3/19/06
Hi,
   <Hello there>
  I was having a hard time finding a question similar to this, so I hope it is not a problem that I should have solve through previously asked e-mails.  I have a 55 gal system, hang-on emperor 400, Coralife power compact lighting, aqua c remora protein skimmer, two powerheads, approx. 50 pounds of live rock.  Currently ph is 8.3, no readings of nitrite, nitrate, or ammonium.  Currently housing xenia, 1 large blue-green reef chromis, 1 percula clown,  1 yellow tang, 1 fire shrimp, 1 peppermint shrimp, brittle star, emerald crab, with numerous hermits and snails.  My question is concerning unexpected, quick deaths of fish.  I have had two fish, most recently a midas blenny and 2 1/2 months before a blue reef chromis, die with absolutely no signs of disease.
<Mmm, both generally quite hardy aquarium species...>
  Literally one day they are breathing normally, eating normally, no marks or spots; then the next day they are at the bottom of the tank breathing hard and die before the end of the day. This is after they have been in the tank for
some time, so these are not "brand new" fish. Meanwhile, the other fish show no sign of discomfort.  The midas blenny, which was the most recent death, was fine last night, swimming and eating happily.  This morning, after all lights were on, the fish was on the bottom breathing heavily.  I put food in and it responded, but would continue to breath heavily. There was no color lost or spots on the blenny.  I checked everything and found nothing wrong, so I went to work.  By the time I returned, the blenny was dead.  The same thing happened in January with the blue chromis.  Is there something I am not doing?
<Mmm, no... not from the provided info. To confound this issue there are other organisms you list that are just as sensitive to "mysterious" influences... and they read as fine>
  Why is it happening so quickly and to only one fish while the others show no signs of disease?  I am really confused about this and would like to correct whatever it is I am doing wrong.  Thanks for any help you can provide.
  WJA
<Seems here that these are "anomalous" losses... Some coincidence of "time bomb" sorts of problems inside these two fishes... Internal difficulties, genetic pre-disposition. I would not be deterred from trying replacements for these. Bob Fenner>

Beginner help ... SW... dis.   3/18/06
Hello,
My wife and I have just started a 40 gallon saltwater tank.  We let the tank mature for 4 weeks with live sand (no fish).
<With testing?>
We then added two clownfish.   One of the clowns died after 10 days.  By the eighth day it was showing stringy
feces, which from what I've read on your site is an indicator of an internal parasitic infection.
<Possibly...>
I attempted a fresh water bath, but I think it was too late.  We also bought a cleaner wrasse which later realized was a bad idea.
<Yes...>
  The wrasse just today died and for the past two days was showing the stringy feces.  I know that they usually don't live for more than a week, but my concern is my tank.  My temp is at 78 with salt levels at 1.022.  Two different aquarium shops have told me all my water levels are good.  Do you think that the two fish dying are a coincidence or that this is related?
<Impossible to state with what is offered here>
How can we keep this from happening again?
<Definitively? By not buying more fish/es... Realistically? By reading... studying the Net, books... taking care to pick out tank-bred clowns, appropriately acclimating them...>
We are apprehensive about purchasing anything else.
<Good to read>
The one good note is the second of the two original clowns (we replaced the 1st that died) is still doing fine from what we observe.   Any help would be greatly appreciated.  We hear different things from everyone we talk to and just want to do things right.  
Thanks in advance,
Chris
<Educate yourself/selves... Reads as if this system really is just "settling in"... you need test kits, tests... Bob Fenner>

Royal Gramma Help... actually, an example of punctuated knowledge, learning in our species... A useful paradigm for military conflicts, government manipulation of the masses   3/16/06
Hi, I started a fish only saltwater aquarium about 7 weeks ago. I cycled the tank with damsels and removed them as I was told by my fish consultant when I was ready to get other fish.
<Mmm, see WWM re this practice... the damsels may have left you a nasty (disease) surprise...>
I bought 2 percula clowns and 1 royal Gramma. In about 2 days, one clown died and from the way I described it, my fish
consultant believes it was clownfish disease.
<There's more than one... Brooklynellosis? Should not have occurred if these were tank bred...>
About a week later, I lost the other one. I am waiting about 2 weeks before I buy anymore clowns.
<... in the meanwhile, please read on WWM re these animals needs>
I have now had the royal Gramma for about 3 weeks and over that time I have added a
Heniochus butterfly, a coral beauty angel, and a strawberry Pseudochromis.
<... how large is this system? How filtered?>
The Pseudochromis charged at the royal Gramma once or twice when I first added him to the display tank, and they have seemed fine ever since.
<Will be unless this system is "at least four feet long">
I see no tension between any of the fish right now. They are all eating fine and look healthy, except the royal Gramma. A couple days ago, I noticed his top fin was a little rigid and had a tiny tear in it. I also saw that his left fin looks like the cartilage has been torn.
<Likely from tussling with the Dottyback>
He can still swim fine, but I am concerned. I also saw that one of his bottom fins looks like half of it was sort of snapped off. I also see 2 whitish lines back above his eyes, but I don't know if they were there before. Could these characteristics be from the Pseudochromis or could it be an infection of some kind?
<Both, from one, then the other... will likely die if not removed, treated elsewhere>
I am very concerned and if you have any advice, please let me know. Thanks!
<... as time goes by you'll understand how little useful information you have provided here. Please, do yourself and your livestock the favor of educating yourself. Don't rely on a consultant, me... read. Bob Fenner>

Stressed out B/F's... some valuable life lessons in resource limitation  - 03/11/2006
Hello,
<Hi there>
I'm hoping you can help me out here. I have a 55 gal. with 2 small Perc. Clowns & 2 Butterflies (Pearlscale & threadfin).
<Mmm, this sized system for these Chaetodonts is problematical...>
My husband came home with a new tank mate 2 days ago and my butterflies have gone crazy. He added a Sailfin Tang, very small, still a juv. The Sailfin is doing great, very friendly, but the butterflies & clowns have all crowded into the top corner of the tank.
<Sort of like having "Jack the Knife" move into your home here>
After the first night, I woke up and both B/F's were covered with spots, on the fins and the body, looked like someone took a salt shaker to them.
<Ahh... Cryptocaryon... very likely present in your system in sub-symptomatic level... brought on to hyperinfective state by the added stress...>
I called my LFS and they said that was very strange for that to happen overnight and to re-arrange the décor and make new homes.
<Mmm, no>
They said maybe the Sailfin was trying to take over the tank.
<Has>
What should I do? It is the second day and they look better but still have visual signs of the spots, and are still acting scared for there lives.
Thanks,
Wendy
Thank You,
<The ich/crypt is cycling... going into a soon-to-be much larger stage... Very big trouble likely brewing here... There is a bunch for you to know, and the only expedient way (not knowing what you know...) is to sift through materials on this and related situations: http://wetwebmedia.com/ichartmar.htm
and the linked files above. You need also to address the root cause of the troubles here: crowding, the mixing of incompatibles in such a system, and the lack of quarantine... I'd separate the Zebrasoma tang, and get ready to do what you will for your ich infested system... and soon. Bob Fenner>

Clownfish Help... Perculosis? What a hoot mon  - 03/11/2006
Hi, my name is Laura and I started a fish only saltwater tank about 7 weeks ago. I let the tank cycle for a month with damsels and took them out when I was ready to get other fish, as I was told by my fish consultant. I started out with a royal Gramma, a coral beauty angel, who are doing great, and two percula clownfish. After two days, one clownfish died. I went to my fish consultant and from the way I described how the one clown looked before he died, he said it was probably Perculosis.
<Heeee! Sorry... this is a new one to me>
I was going to wait and see how my other clown was for a while, and he looked perfectly fine, but he was kind of acting weird. At first he would hang out at the top a lot, then he would be fine. Then he would be at the bottom a while, then he would be fine.
<Pretty typical behavior...>
About 5 days later, I decided to get another clown to see if anything changed. He seems a lot better to be with a partner. Then, a few days later, I got a Heniochus Butterfly.
<How large is this system? You're not quarantining new livestock...>
The day I brought him home, I noticed a white string-like thing hanging off of both the clowns (underneath their bottom
fins). I looked on the web and thought it could be a parasite, so I put a few capfuls of a Perma-Guard substance I have.
<...? In the main tank?> I need to wait and see what happens, but I am still worried. Do you have any advice? Thanks
Laura
<Yes... study... don't rely on a consultant to make known what needs to be... You will not enjoy or have success this haphazard way. See WWM re Livestock Selection, Quarantine... and the needs of the animals you have, intend... Before their acquisition. Perhaps the reading of a good, general marine aquarium tome would give/grant you a good all-round understanding here. Bob Fenner>

Avoiding Disease, Biol., SW  03/9/06
Hey guys, <Hi Jason! Tim answering your question today.> I know it's recommended to use live rock in a marine tank as biological filtration but can you get away with strictly bio balls and sump <You certainly can, referred to as a FO system (Fish Only) as opposed to FOWLR (Fish Only with Live Rock).> ?  I previously had a marine tank and could not find a reliable store to purchase affordable saltwater fish without being infested with disease.  Now I'd like to just be able to treat my main tank if there is a disease problem because I don't have the room for a QT tank anymore.  What do you suggest? <I suggest finding a seller that offers healthy fish. If that is not possible, or in any case really, I suggest finding a place for a QT. If that is not an option either then I would suggest leaving the hobby, perhaps switching to freshwater, until you have a QT and/or a respectable supplier of livestock. If you keep your tank bare, with the intention of being able to medicate the main system as and when necessary, consider the following: you will not be able to have substrate in your tank (as this will absorb medication), you will not be able to have any inverts incl. shrimp and snails as these can be very sensitive to certain medications, and you will have to, depending on your choice of fish, provide generally unattractive artificial shelter for shy fish to hide. Most marine fish fare best when the aquarist is able to closely replicate their natural environment - in my opinion, a bare aquarium frequently plagued by disease does not fit that criteria. I do apologize for being so blunt. Please do not hesitate to ask further questions in relation to this.>
Thanks

Velvet! Jumping all the way in w/o knowing what you're doing   03/07/06
I am currently reading over your site looking for answers regarding the issue. I have a 150gal, it is now FOWLR....It went through a rough move.
Now an outbreak of velvet. Resulting in the loss of several fish.  Still living is a white-faced surgeonfish, and a clown.
I've been trying to capture the fish to put into QT....damn rocks!
<Really best to systematically dismantle, drain here>
I have lowered SPG it is now at 1.017, Should I lower it more?
<... I would not>
I have raised the temp. to high 80's.
<This, these will not effect a cure here>
The clown has clouded eyes, ragged fins and a velvety coating. Its breathing is rapid early in the morning and at night, throughout the day the coating appears to subside. The tang has very rapid breathing throughout the day, but the spots on it are less. In the mornings, it
appears to have dark spots that are spotted all over then gradually fade away as the day progresses. ?
<Yes>
I realize this to be a no no, but I have treated the main display.
<With?>
Until I am able to capture the fish, I don't know what else to do (other than try a little harder I suppose). I have been using Nox-Ich....
<... Malachite Green... in the presence of LR, calcareous substrate? Won't work... except to stain all>
I guess I wasn't really aware of what was in that....is it something that can create problems for things to later grow on the LR?
<... You're hopefully joking>
Hard lesson learned in this whole situation (as always). Anyways, If I performed a freshwater dip... I put water in a bucket
(sterile bucket), get ph and temp and spg (?) to that of what they are currently in?  (I was once told there is no such thing as a stupid question, but I think I may get reprimanded/laughed at here...) What would be recommended to add to that dip? Methylene blue (I don't currently have this)? Or....could either the Nox-Ich or MelaFix work (I realize that these are probably the worse "meds" I could own now) ? Or would just the simple freshwater be of some relief to the fish with no medication being involved until I can get what is recommended? I will be giving baths from here on out where needed. I haven't done one and the article re the issue was a little scary.
Sorry for any repeated questions and really, thank you for your help! I will continue about my search on the site now.
Sincerely,
Codie
<... have just skipped down. Please see WWM re Amyloodiniumiasis, Parasitic Tanks and Reef Tanks... Bob Fenner>

White Spots, What Could They Be? Poor Planning - 02/16/2006
I've read that these tiny white spots on my tank glass are probably copepods the white spots seem to have tiny "legs" as well).
<Uh...Do these move?>
However, my Powder Brown Tang seems to have white spots as well they seem smaller than the "copepods").
<Not good.>
He is a very healthy eater and swims a lot, he seems no different except for the spots.
<OK>
I thought at first he may have gotten salt stuck on his skin I added water that I thought was dissolved, but the salt went everywhere in the tank).
<!?>
Does my tang have ick?
<Can't say for sure, but a definite possibility. Have you read WWM re?>
The 60 gal. tank is six weeks old I now know this was too early for a PB Tang)
<And too small.>
Ammonia levels are below 0.25,
<Should be 0! This fish is not easy.>
No traces of nitrites or nitrates, Spec. Grav. is 1.022, pH 8.2.
<These last two should be at NSW levels.>
Please tell me how I can help my tang The other fish don't seem affected-Ocellaris Clown, Target Mandarin Goby, Copper Banded Butterfly.)
<Whoa...You've got a good bit of reading to do. You've started with some difficult fishes. Revisit some basics here also (on tank maintenance, live stock requirements).
http://www.wetwebmedia.com/ichartmar.htm
http://www.wetwebmedia.com/ichart2mar.htm . Good luck. - Josh>

... Understanding disease in aquatic, marine systems  - 02/16/2006
Information on tank and critters is below. Ammonia has since gone down to zero. Nitrates went up to 25, did a 10g/25% water change (40g total vol.)
My problem, late last week my blenny started exhibiting some (stranger then usual) bouncing acrobatics that looked to me to be flashing.
<Could be just from the nitrates>
He also seemed to become generally irate and his color was slightly pale.
<Ditto>
The dwarf angel in the tank with him was (and still is currently) almost constantly trying to get one of the shrimp too clean her.
Unfortunately the cleaner & peppermint have no interest, and the fire shrimp has only done so very little (that I've seen). Their are no other external signs (perhaps slightly increased breathing, but that could be attributed to anything). I see no signs of parasites but it seems to me that that must be the issue. I unfortunately did not previously have a good qt/dip regiment (I've already changed that,
purchased a small 10g tank/power filter/heater/live-rock rubble to be used for treatment.
I have already put the blenny in a freshwater/Methylene dip (5 teaspoons/3g) and then put him back into the main tank after doing a quick rinse in freshly mixed saltwater. It took him a good while to come out of his hiding place after that but he looked *much* better.
His color had returned to normal and although he still flashes every once in a while, it is a good deal less.
Now that I have the quarantine tank set up should I throw them in their w/ some copper (I bought Cupramine) and a low dose of Methylene
blue (after a freshwater dip of course) and let the tank go fallow?
Should I wait for more external signs to appear?
<I would>
I have added some Prime to the main tank to hopefully aid in slime coat (re)growth but beyond that I have just been changing a couple of gallons a day in an
attempt to maintain high water quality. No medications as of yet besides the dipped blenny. Shrimps/crabs/snails show no odd behavior
and both fish are still eating and maintaining normal energy levels.
<Bob Fenner>

Ick, puffer, clownfish, and lionfish need help. Writer needs to read... and act... quick  2/10/06
Ok I just got a dog face puffer about 3 weeks ago was quarantined didn't see any signs of ick, eating and very alert and as soon as I put him in
the big tank 220 with 2 clownfish and a lionfish that is about 4 inches (body) long. that I have had for 6months, now they all have ick
<The system had/has it...>
except for the lion from what I can see he is ok and eating just fine the two Sebae clowns have white specks and some white patches on them, the
puffer has spots from what I can see only on his fins. They just started showing signs yesterday when I went to feed them. the day before they were
fine since I do a head count and body check on everyone each day. they have all been in the tank together for about 3-4 days. What  is the best
medicine that I should treat the fish with.
<... posted on WWM>
I have Greenex at home and have used on fish before without any problems. But several people on here say not to use it.
<Malachite Green and Formalin... not a good choice>
I just don't want to loose my puffer or my clownfish.
<Or lose them>
I haven't seen the clownfish bothering the puffer so I don't think it is stress related. Could it be possible that I got the ick from feeding the
clowns and puffer live ghost shrimp that I purchased from the pet store,
<Ah, yes>
I thought that freshwater ick if they had it wouldn't survive in saltwater.
<Doesn't... isn't this>
At this point I don't know if I should just treat the whole tank,
<Need to be treated elsewhere...>
since I don't have any inverts or live rock in the tank just sand bottom. Or if I should try to catch the fish and put them in a hospital tank.
<Yes, this last>
I have raised the temp in the main tank to 82 from 79. All my tests come up reading 0 and my SG is at 1.023-1.024. Please advise me on the best action
to take at this point.  I can transfer to a 20 gallon hospital tank if needed. with cycled water from my other 20 gallon tank.
<Read... soon... on WWM re Crypt, its treatments: See here: http://wetwebmedia.com/ichartmar.htm
and the linked files above... Bob Fenner>
Lora

Emperor Angel mouth problem    1/25/06
Dear Crew,
<Dana>
I have a 5 1/2"  Emperor Angel whom I have had for just under 2 years. He has always been healthy, eats everything, and has almost completely changed over to his adult form. He is perfect in every way but one. Over the last six months, I noticed that his mouth looked different than it should (I had one many years ago, plus see them in LFS and photos). I have had no luck taking photos that clearly show what I am talking about, so I shall attempt to describe his mouth. Quite simply, it looks as if someone grabbed it with a pair of pliers and pulled it forward. There does not appear to be any growths on it, more like it has cracks in it. His mouth does protrude out, the bottom more so than the top. I can see what appear to be blood vessels under the skin in this area, and he is no longer able to  
close his mouth completely. It does not appear to bother him, as he is still eating quite well. But I am concerned that what originally looked like a "not so perfect specimen" now looks like something is obviously wrong. I did search your FAQs, and did find a couple of posts about tumors of the mouth, but neither of the posts offered a description for comparison. If this is a tumor, do you have any advice for a remedy?
<Maybe a tumor, perhaps a genetic anomaly... could be resultant from a "bump" long ago... No remedy though...>
Are my other fish in any danger?
<Highly unlikely, no>
I am not certain if this is related, but I have twice seen him breathing rapidly out of a single gill only (found several posts on this as well, but no clear answers),
<Probably not a problem or related. Just something they do at times>
but minutes later was breathing normally. Oh yes - water quality is excellent, with near zero  
nitrates and phosphates, pH is 8.2, temp 77. The tank is a 240 with 200 lbs. of live rock, though this was only added a few months ago.  
All other fish in the tank have perfect health. His diet includes virtually every frozen marine fish food on the market (I believe in  
variety!) fed twice a day, with dried seaweed fed twice a week. Your help and advice is greatly appreciated.
Dana
<I would soak the foods, algae in a vitamin/HUFA supplement (like Selcon, Microvit...), but otherwise do nothing else here. If this is a developmental disorder, or tumor as you speculate, hopefully it will spontaneously remit. Bob Fenner>

Letting Others Run Your Tank - 01/22/2006
Ok,
<Hi there Ryan.>
I guess you read me wrong when I first sent those emails. The research part isn't bad it's just a lot of info to. learn.
<'Tis, but it's your only true protection.>
I have a lot of fun with my tank, and yes I did run my tank through the cycle with the lionfish in it.
<Patience...I know it's hard but you've got to pace yourself or it will catch up to you in a very bad way.>
As for my other big tank I heard it wasn't that great to not put in starter fish.
<From who? Wouldn't be from folks trying to sell those "starter fish" would it.>
Also I heard that switching fish stores isn't that good because it's harder to trace a disease?
<Uh...From the same folks? This just doesn't make any sense! QT...QT and it's a moot point. (Enter Pinocchio) "There are no strings on me!" Take the reins man! Research for yourself, don't let others make this harder than it needs to be.>
Thanks Ryan,
<Sure thing. - Josh>

Dottyback with Popeye 12/30/05
I recently bought a 1/2 purple/yellow saltwater fish.  I can't remember what type of fish he is (maybe Dottyback?) anymore but here is my problem:  He hides behind my heater and has developed a yellow protrusion on one eyeball.  What do you think it is and how can I treat it?<<Please quarantine the fish and do some research and reading here on WWM. Search for 'Popeye' and 'exophthalmia'.
Treatment medicines should not be used on your main tank. Good luck - Ted>>

Ich...or something like it on my new Niger trigger?
First of all... outstanding web-site.  This is the first time I have submitted a question, and I appreciate any response you have time for.  After spending a lot of time searching around on the web-site, here's my situation.  I have a 55 gallon saltwater tank w/fish only.  I have a wet-dry and protein skimmer.  It's been set up for about 10mos now.  Approx 1 month ago, I had some temperature fluctuations and pH problems.  Possibly because of these two catalysts, I had an ich outbreak which killed 4 of my fish.
<Likely related, yes>
That left me with a yellow tang, two damsels and a lunare wrasse.  I medicated and stabilized the tank before purchasing a small Humu Humu trigger and a small niger trigger.
<This system is too small for either...>
I have had them for two days now.  Yesterday, I noticed the niger had a small white bump... almost like a pimple on the side of his jaw below his mouth.  Today there is another one almost identical below it.  These don't look anything like what I saw when my other fish had ich  (larger bumps).  He is active and eats great.  Has been rubbing a little on rocks.  Just wondering if you think this is ich or something else.
<Likely "just" environmental... stress, perhaps physical-bump related (from being moved about). Not worth "treating" per se>
For now I'm going to treat it as ich, because I'm a little paranoid now.  Can ich infect that quickly if it has not affected any fish for the last month or so?
<Can "occur" within a day, yes... and your present fishes might well have a degree of acquired immunity... not show the crypt/ich, but act as reservoir hosts>
Also, here are the water parameters.  Ammonia 0   Ph 8.1-8.2  Nitrite 0  Nitrate 30   Salinity  1.022   Temp  79
I have had a problems keeping the nitrates in check and usually do a 50 percent water change every two weeks.
<Too much... there are other ways to control... posted on WWM>
  I don't have live rock.... but am considering it to help with the nitrate.  I have been told my triggers and wrasse will eat them clean, so they might not be worth buying.  Any guidance on controlling nitrate would be great also.
<Please see WWM re... the search tool, the indices... Bob Fenner>
Thanks a bunch,  Chad McGuire

Tangs, no quarantine, crypt, WWM
Good morning,
<Yes...>
I have 125 reef that has been up for about a year now.  At present I have 200 lbs live rock, 200 lbs live sand, 3 anemones,
<Clones hopefully>
1 coral beauty angel, 1 gold stripe clown, 1 porcupine puffer, 1 dog face puffer, 2 horseshoe crabs,
<With anemones?>
1 sand sifter star, 1 spiny oyster,
<Wow, not easily kept>
1 queen conch, 2 red spot cardinals, snowflake eel, pencil urchin, emerald crab, scarlet skunk cleaner shrimp, 1 green mandarin (female),
<... amazing>
2 green mushrooms, chestnut cowry, Cerith snails,
20 dwarf blue leg hermits, 9- turbo snails, 3 scarlet reef hermits, 2 arrow crabs, lettuce coral.
<Am surprised your puffers haven't munched on a bunch of the above>
I am running a Penn Plax 1200 canister filter for water movement with floss in it. I have an under tank 30 gal refugium that is divided into 3 areas.
The first receives the tank water from an overflow box. This first area is where my GS2 skimmer sits. The center area is the live area and houses live sand, a few pieces of live rock, 3 snails, 1 chocolate chip star (moved from main tank because he was eating corals). In the final area is where my return pump sits. It is rated at 700 gpm.
My lighting is done with an Aqualight pro with 150 watt HQI and four 96 watt PC. All stay on approx. 10 hrs daily with moonlight at night. The refugium is lit when the main tank is off with a standard 20 inch fluorescent.
My water is tested at Bert’s Pet Center, my LFS in Portsmouth Ohio. All they tell me is that the water is ok!
<Mmm, I'd invest in my own (decent) test kits... keep a log...>
I do a 15 gallon water change every 10 to 14 days.
I recently added the dogface, a powder blue tang, and a Sailfin tang.
<Sans quarantine? Ugghh!>
Within 24 hrs the powder blue developed small white spots and was dead within the next 48 hrs. Now the Sailfin tang has the same spots but his fins are also being digested by something.
<... trouble>
No other fish appear or act ill. This is the second set of tangs I have tried to introduce and have developed this
problem. Can you help to identify this and suggest possible solutions?
Thanks,
Kevin
<Umm, your system has Cryptocaryon... Please start reading here: http://www.wetwebmedia.com/parasittksfaqs.htm
then on to the linked files above... You are faced with some straight-forward choices. To ignore your present situation, and largely also avoid adding any new fishes... or... going the other extreme, taking the tank down/apart to separate invertebrates, fishes, treating the latter, letting the remainder go w/o fish contact... Bob Fenner>

Re: fish swimming vertical 12-20-05
Thanks for your advice.  
<Glad to help.>
I should mention that the fish wasn't skinny and wasting away at all as you would normally see with an internal parasite.  It is now struggling to swim at all and it seems as if the bottom half of the fishes body is paralyzed.  It does try to eat when I feed it, but it has a hard time getting to any food.  Do you still think this sounds like an internal parasite?  If so what is the treatment of choice for this?  I'm pretty sure the wrasse will not make it, but want to be prepared in case any of my other fish get sick.  Is there any possibility that fish was collected using cyanide if an internal parasite could be ruled out?  I have done a little research and thought that this could be a possibility.  
<The stringy white feces screams internal parasites. As I stated previously, the secondary infection is most likely a bacterial infection of the swim bladder. To treat the internal infection I suggest a medicated food. The bacterial infection will be a bit harder to clear and will require some research here and on the web. Without seeing your fish I really can't give you a magic bullet or medication name to use. Here is a link to get you started on treating the swim bladder issue. http://www.wetwebmedia.com/mardisfaqs3.htm Travis>
I really
appreciate your help.
Thresa

Harlequin Tuskfish plus 12/13/05
Hi Bob, it's Patrick
<Hello>
       I have a question to ask you and none of the pet stores I have asked know the answer. About a couple of weeks ago I received a mail order of saltwater fish. I have a couple of saltwater fish tanks one 75 gallon one 30 gallon and a 10 holding tank. The 75-gallon tank has been set up for along time but there were no fish in it for about two months. The 30 gallon tank was all ready full so all the other fish had to go in the 75. There was a raccoon butterfly, Naso tang and a Harlequin tusk. I put all 3 in a bucket and acclimated them for about 3 hours.
<... no quarantine...>
They all were going right into the 75 because there were no fish in there and the 10-gallon was too small for all of them. After I put them in the tank I noticed the raccoon butterfly had ick so I put him right in the 10 gallon.
<... too late... the system has it>
I left the 2 others in the main tank for now. About two days later there was 2 spots on him. So I decided to set up another 10-gallon tank and put the tusk in it to treat for ick. The Naso went in with the raccoon.  The Naso tang died 2 days later. I had not had much success with ick I have tried copper, which has killed my fish and I hear that copper can make tusks go blind. I also have used reef safe produces, which don’t work.
<... agreed>
         I decided to try hyposalinity because I heard it works good and I have never tried it before. I started to lower the salinity down a little at a time. Half way thought the raccoon died. Now the only one left is the Harlequin tusk. Now I have the salt level to about 1.012 and during this time the cheap heater I have started to go crazy and temperature was going up and down which I now is not good. So finally I got the temperature to stay around 77 degrees. But now the tusk just sits behind the rock in the bare tank with his mouth open and is not as active. He is not eating and is breathing pretty hard. I know he is stressed but I don’t know what to do. The salinity is almost at 1.009 where it has to be for hyposalinity but I am not sure if I should keep going down to 1.009 or if I should bring the salinity back up slowly to 1.020. I test the ph and the water frequently and everything is good, ph at around 8.1 I just put in the tank a new product made by Kordon which is called Prevent –Ich 100% organic fish disease inhibitor and preventative. It say’s to add when fish are stressed or have white spots on them. I really want to save this beautiful creature. Please write back to me so I know what I should do about the salinity and if the Prevent-Ich is something I should be using and also how to get the Harlequin tusk to eat. I am feeding him krill Mysis shrimp and brine shrimp soaked in garlic.  
                                                                                    Thank you so much and god bless.  
<... please review what is posted on WWM re Quarantine... the species in question, Cryptocaryon... Hyposalinity. Bob Fenner>

At the end of my rope.... 12-12-05
Hello gang,
<Hello, Travis with you today.>
I'd like to thank all for your time as this website has been an invaluable resource to me.
<We are always glad to help.>
However I recently was struck with a problem that I cannot find (an alternate) solution for in your archives.  I have a 55 gallon tank with about 70lbs of live rock, some mushrooms, Zoanthids, star polyps, snails and a few hermits. I turn over about 900 Gallons per hour, ammonia 0, nitrites 0, nitrates 0, ph 8.3, SG 1.25.  
The inhabitants are a 2.5 inch yellow tang (purchased before I found your site), a royal Gramma, 2 pajama cardinals (/Sphaeramia nematoptera)/ and 2 Scissor Tail Gobies/ (Ptereleotris evides)./
Everything has been fine for the last month and a half until last night I noticed *ich* on my yellow tang I began to freak out and read everything that I could find on your site regarding treatment, prevention, etc. This morning the yellow tang was covered with ich.
<That is not good.>
My problem is two fold:
1. I brought this upon myself by not using a tank to quarantine new animals. (I now realize that it is INSANE to not have a "hospital" tank to quarantine new fish)
<Glad you realize that.>
2. I allowed a small amount of "store water" into my tank (also INSANE to do this, who knows what is in their water)
<Ewwwww....>
In any event I now must deal with an ich outbreak, but I really cannot afford to put any more money into this.
<Hmmm, I think you might be stuck putting a little more money in this as you are now the sole provider for your ill pets.>
I do not have an additional tank to setup and use for treatments. Nor can I afford a tank big enough to house a yellow tang (and his pals) for 5-6 weeks in quarantine plus copper medication and a copper test kit. I really don't know what to do. I've thought about getting a neon goby or cleaner shrimp but that is treating the symptom, not the problem.
<Gobies and shrimp will not help a full blown outbreak.>
The only real solution is to remove all the fish for 5 to 6 weeks in a quarantine tank but for me that is not an option. I don't want to see my fish succumb to ich one by one. I just don't know what to do. I'd hate to have to leave the hobby so soon into this but I feel I may have backed myself into a corner by not doing enough research in the beginning. Do I have any option other then removing all the fish?
<Buy a few ten gallon tanks, a couple cheap heaters, and an air pump. You can treat the fish in those. Rubbermaid containers would also work, but the copper may leach out of the water and into the plastic, so testing would be very necessary. If you are unable to do that, try feeding your fish well and praying. Many fish can fight ich off if their water parameters are good and they are well fed.>
At the end of my rope,
<Hang in there, Travis>
Fred

Re: At the end of my rope.... 12-19-05
Just wanted to give you guys an update. The ich had spread to my Royal Gramma and my Yellow Tang was not looking well. I added a large skunk cleaner shrimp and luckily all traces of ich have disappeared (well symptoms at least). I've switched to a garlic containing flake food and so far so good.
<Watch for the ich to return as the cysts fall off to hatch, then return in a higher number. This is not meant to scare you, just a heads up. Besides that, I am glad to hear things are looking up. Travis>
Thanks again for your quick help you guys are the best!
Fred

What are the Ingredients for Disaster? Ich, Tang Minus Quarantine, & Overcrowding - 29/11/05
Greetings Crew,
My 55 gal FOWLR was cruising along just fine until I added a small Blue Tang the other day. Then more trouble, he began scratching on the rocks, but he does not have any noticeable parasites on him. I did see white specks near the bottom of the tank on the glass, just above the live sand. They are moving although my clown fish, trigger fish, and 2 yellow tail damsels seem fine.
<Unfortunately your tank is not large enough to support a trigger or this tang. Additionally, to save yourself from fish losses and the resultant heartache, it is important that you quarantine any new livestock in a separate tank or container for at least four weeks before adding them to your system.>
The water seems to have these white specks floating all over it too. The population of the white specks is growing fast. HELP.... Is copper my tanks savior?
<To rectify the situation, I would remove the tang ASAP to a filtered hospital tank or container, and observe for any parasitic outbreak. Read through the disease and cure sections on WWM (starting here: http://www.wetwebmedia.com/ichartmar.htm) and be prepared to take action. I would strongly urge you not to medicate your display tank with copper. It's unlikely that you are seeing a cloud of free-living parasites in your water. It would also be a good idea to return your trigger to the fish store as soon as possible (and indeed the tang, if they can isolate it from their other livestock), and read up on marine tank water parameters (ammonia, nitrite, nitrate) and livestock choices.>
Thanks, MIKE IN S.F.
<Good luck, and I hope you manage to get the situation under control. Best regards, John> 

Ammonia and Ich... too much money, not enough knowledge  11/22/05
Hi, I am a new to the hobby, but due to good articles on your site, I set up a 29 gal quarantine tank. I made the mistake of live sand and one small live rock (I will remove these after these fish leave Q tank, they sleep under it and I don't want to cause extra stress) - Q tank cycled 2 months ago, Am=0, Nitrite=0, Ph=8.3., salinity=.24,
<Likely 1.024>
Gamma UV 15 Watt. I added one 1 inch clown and 6 1 inch blue tangs to Q tank 2 weeks ago (1 tang died w/in 2 days).
<Six?>
All remaining are eating very well, and swimming with great vigor.  Problems: Most of the tangs have white spots & sores and some are rubbing, some are starting to get what looks like acne, am=.4 nitrite .2 pH=8.3 salinity=.23. LFS says to leave tank alone, no water changes for Am or medicine for Ich until fish stop eating and start acting sick.
<...? They are acting sick...>
I am reluctant to medicate but I feel I will never be able to get them into healthy main (370 gal) tank (0 Am, 0 nitrite 0nitrate Ph 8.3 Salinity .19, protein skimmer, 2 dolphin 3000 pumps) until they are parasite free for a month.
<Won't be...>
How can that happen without medicating the Q tank & dipping the fish? Thanks for any advice, Monique
<... Please read here: http://www.wetwebmedia.com/ichartmar.htm and the linked files above... You need to treat these fishes... remove the calcareous material from the Q tank... can use PVC parts instead... keep up with water testing, changing... and treatment and testing (daily)... Read until you understand what you're doing... You don't currently and neither does the shop. Bob Fenner>

Major problem with ich!!! Actually quarantine to prevent...  11/21/05
I have a major problem with my tank. I have a 50 gallon reef system for about 6 months. The filtration is a refugium with Caulerpa algae and some LR with some mud, Euro-reef skimmer, a return pump with about 700 gph, and in the main tank 50 pounds of LR. For the first 3 months I had some damsels which I sold back to the LFS, and put a yellow tang and 2 false percula clowns. Well about a month went by and the all three the fish got ich.
<"Got?"... I take it you didn't quarantine any of the fish livestock...>
I read on your site about quarantining the infected fishes.
<Oh!? Actually before the infestations are moved to main systems...>
I tried quarantining the fishes but they still died. I also read on your site to keep the main tank fish free for 4 weeks or more, so I also tried this. After not having any fish in my tank for 4 weeks I thought the ich would have died off by then.
<Usually, yes>
Yesterday I put again a yellow tang and 2 false Perculas and not only 24 hours later they are covered in ich.
<These weren't quarantined either...>
I don’t understand what’s going on, I need some help!!! I have read on your site about ich and I believed to have a pretty good understanding on how ich works. Now since this has happen again I’m lost. HELP! 
Thanks,  Adam 
<Find yourself... read (again) on WWM re Cryptocaryoniasis... http://www.wetwebmedia.com/ichartmar.htm and the linked files above. Bob Fenner> 

The microscopic world, speculations on FW, SW "Dead Sea" effect  11/15/05
Hello again,
<Hi there>
Jonathan here. Have acquired an Observer III microscope to help me diagnose fish problems where I work. Both of the fresh and the salt.
<Another world awaits you>
I can do 40x, 100x, and 400x. I'll be getting another eyepiece so I can do 600x for that just a little bigger than 400x.
<Mmm, much larger>
I've been making dark field / oblique filters to try and see what I see.
<... I, not "I">
I don't want to invest in phase contrast just yet, unless I find out there's no other way. Have you ever gotten decent resolution for searching for parasites at 400x with a dark field filter?
<Yes>
I have to use oblique by slightly moving my filter holder out alignment. That and sometimes giving myself a headache by closing down the iris aperture all the way.  I'll be getting a mount for a digital camera, so that I may attach it to the scope. May I send you an video for feedback?
<Yes>
I may make a website to share my progress with others.
<Outstanding>
I'll keep learning where I am, and try and take a course at my college to refresh my technique. I might have an opportunity to attend the diseases of warm water fish seminar in Florida. Do you think it would be an improving experience?
<Yes>
Or that by working in an aquarium store that I'll eventually see most of what they would show me.
<Oh no... a very good idea to have both experiences to draw from>
Two recurrent problems, which may even be related, in salt; is possible Brooklynella running loose and cloudy eye. Coppersafe is at half dose continuously. Brook is said not to be affected by copper sulfate, which would make sense. The way it looks on the fish is very much the description in books and internet. Have scoped a few scrapes, but I'm too new to say "that's it".  I'm taking action against it, but victory is not yet reached.  [course of action is freshwater baths sometimes with Meth blue 7 -15 min.s every 3 days about, but return to the same tank. I can't pull a clean tank out of the air,
<...? But you can buy a scope?>
and by corporate all tanks need to be full, ha. I could shut off a tank from the central, remove the copper, and hit it with Rid Ich+, which I'm considering, if my bath approach is not getting results..]
<Shotgun approaches are not encouraged>
Would it be possible that ich or velvet could be present in the gills of new fish at such a level to cause death without being present at all on the body & treating at half dose of copper is not enough to solve the problem?
<Yes... a therapeutic dose is just that... less than is more harm than good>
Its a possibility I just recently considered. I think if I see encysted ich or velvet on a newly introduced fish, its probably just temporary. Until it falls off divides and the copper kills the free swimming stage. Cloudy eye I think is caused by our water. Most things I read linked it to environmental issues. Our nitrate is barley registering on our Jungle Quick dip stick, as accurate as that is. I think we may be exporting nitrate by scrubbing algae, and removing and drying out Cyano infested crush coral substrate. 
<Your speculation is worthy>
So that nitrate would not be an entirely accurate judge of the water quality. Only doing 30 gallons out every week or two, may not adequate in a 900 gallon system.
<Uh, no>
I think we actually evaporating and topping off more than we are taking out and replacing. I've noted this on a discus tank we had by using a TDS meter. The TDS value was much higher in the tank than the source water like 3 - 4 times.
<Like potted houseplants, these tanks need periodic large water change-outs to dilute solids...>
Even taking account whatever live plants died or bogwood adds, it gave me a way of showing the problem. Ha, the TDS wouldn't work in saltwater, its over its limit. If hypothetically this we evaporating and replacing say 75 gallons a week, and only did a 30 gallon water change a week. Could this lead to problems?  
<Yes>
Wouldn't over time the whole of water become more mineral rich, and with all the contaminants of the tap. This might lead to a cloudy eye problem. 
<Agreed>
Too much contaminants, too much minerals, too much bacteria supported by those. Any ideas?  I've tried to keep this short.
Sorry and thanks,
Jonathan
<Do please learn to/use your spelling and grammar checking tools... a good learning experience. Bob Fenner>

Freshwater Dip  11/12/2005
WWM Crew,
I have been reading a lot on the saltwater aquariums and I've read about Freshwater dips being done before introducing a new fish into a tank. Although, I haven't quite found anything that elaborated on the subject. Just out of curiosity what does it actually do/help with? What are the pros and cons?
Warmly,
Ashley
<Mmm, please read here: http://www.wetwebmedia.com/dips_baths.htm and the Related links above. Bob Fenner>

Dog Face Puffer Says "Woof!", Or, How to Bark Like a Big Dog! 11/1/05
Hello, I have had my dog face puffer in a ten gallon tank for about three months.
<Abysmal...>
This was suppose to be temporary home for him until I moved into my new apartment. The problem with my puffer is that it has been having ick for the past three weeks.
<... there is a stress component to all pathogenic disease...>
I have been changing the water and checking the pH levels and all seemed fine, but he is not getting any better.  I have been feeding him krill, since I've had him and now his appetite is slowing doing down. Please let me know what I can do to help my dog face.
Thanks,
Jackelyn
<Please read on WWM re Cryptocaryon... Puffer Disease... Systems... Bob Fenner>  

Disease or Environmental Issue? Making The Right Call...  10/20/05
Hello.
<Hi there! Scott F. here today!>
First off, I just wanted to say that your site is awesome and a
great help to aquarists such as myself.  
<Glad to hear that you enjoy it! We're happy to bring it to you each and every day!>
Now to my problem.  I just
transferred my fish to a larger 75 gallon aquarium.  Yesterday, I
noticed that one of my Ocellaris Clowns was acting weird.  He was just hanging out on the side of my built in overflow towards the top of the water.  He ate normally when I fed.  Didn't think much of it until I got home and noticed that he was in a vertical position with his head towards the top of the water.  Examined him and didn't see any signs of disease.  However, this morning I woke up to find him breathing rather rapidly but still no external signs.  From what I have read on WWM, I think that he may have Velvet disease.  Is that correct?
<Well, rapid breathing and lethargic behavior are some of the symptoms associated with Amyloodinium (Marine Velvet). However, the fact that the fish ate when fed is encouraging. Before concluding that you're looking at a disease, do a couple of quick water tests just to assure that you're not looking at an ammonia spike or some other environmental lapse. If you are convinced that you're dealing with a disease, then I'd recommend removing the fish for further observation. Although rapid "medical" intervention is critical with this disease, you don't want to begin a potentially rough course of treatment (copper sulphate or formalin-based products) until you're 100% certain that you're dealing with Amyloodinium.>
I plan on going home at lunch to set up the quarantine tank (12 gallon Eclipse).  After work, I will probably give him a FW bath but nobody in  Santa Fe that I have found sells Methylene blue.  Should I just use buffered FW alone or is there something else I need to add to the bath?
<Buffered freshwater is just fine; Methylene blue is not effective on parasitic diseases, anyways.>
As far as treatment in the QT, what should I use?  
<I would use a commercial copper sulphate medication...assuming that you ARE dealing with Amyloodinium, of course. I'd observe the fish carefully for a few more days to be certain that it's a disease.>
What should I do with the rest of the fish in the tank?  None of them  show any signs of distress.  However, I don't want this problem to  repeat itself.    
<Agreed. If this DOES turn out to be Amyloodinium or Cryptocaryon, then you definitely would want to "fallow" your tank, removing all of the fishes to a separate tank for observation or treatment (if necessary). The display would sit without fishes for at least a month, to deprive the parasites of their hosts (your fishes). Read up about this technique on the WWM parasitic disease FAQs.>
I guess I could let the tank go fallow for a month but I am little
concerned about the stress on the fish from another move so soon.  They  have only been in my tank for a couple of weeks.  I have an old 45 gallon Eclipse that I could use while I let the tank go
fallow.          
<A good idea, if you go this route.>
Please advise. Thanks,
Matt
<Well, Matt- I'd follow the above-outlined ideas until you're certain what you're dealing with here. Exposing the fishes to a potentially aggressive (and possibly unnecessary) course of treatment is not a good idea, so proceed with caution. Best of luck! Regards, Scott F.>

Cleaning/Sterilizing Tanks/Equipment - 10/11/05
Ok thanks. What about the plants, heater, airstone, filter, and whatever else was in the tank before? Is letting them dry enough, or should I get all new?
<<I don't see any need to replace. Give everything a wash and rinse in the bleach solution as described for the tank. EricR>> 

Marineland banks in my store...Trouble..  10/3/05
HI all, I recently (February 05) bought a LFS, It has 26 (4) foot Marineland (mars) systems in it. Half are fresh the other are salt. The problem is that even with the recommended daily, weekly maintenance that they (Marineland) recommend I am suffering a great number of losses in my saltwater systems. (over 1000.00 last month)
<Mmm, might be your livestock source/s, your acclimation protocol... but I am not a fan of these holding systems... too feeble filtration wise, not easily improved...>
I have tried everything they (Marineland) recommended (new uv lights, CopperSafe, frequent pad changes, etc, etc). I have been keeping reefs for over 15 years very successfully,
<Stores... are very different... as you're finding out>
I currently have a 300 gallon reef in my store that has every kind of coral in it you can imagine including Goniopora and elegance that are both reproducing and have been for over two years, along with reproducing pipefish on a regular basis. So I am no beginner to keeping things alive, but these systems have me a wits end. So this last week I finally got fed up with them and began the 3 day task of replumbing them to a central sump, now this is where I need some advice, I am using a couple of 150 gallon Rubbermaid horse troughs for the sumps. The reason That I replumbed them is that I don't think that there was "enough" biological media for the constantly changing fish loads.
<I agree>
What could I use as a very large and stable biofilter?
<The best... a fluidized bed... but a good deal of substrate (if you're not running copper) or plastic media will do>
I am considering wool and DLS material wound tightly together in the new "sumps" to create this biofilter. Is there something you would recommend other than this?
<Yes... the above... what you propose create their own problems... of nutrient accumulation, its ill effects>
I am hoping to keep as much life as possible in these systems, I would love to be able to keep snails and crabs in these banks as well as fish, I am currently transshipping my fish and corals. The people I ship through have recommended that I use "QuickCure" in my systems on a Saturday so it will stabilize my systems before my shipment arrives on Mondays,
<Formalin and copper... dangerous, toxic...>
But I am wondering if this QuickCure is "safe" to use in a system like I have setup,
<If too much... will kill your filters, livestock>
I am pretty sure if I use this method I can't have inverts because of the chemical makeup of the quick cure, But it will help the fish correct?
<Mmm, possibly... how to put this... humans used to treat themselves with mercuricals, arsenicals... was toxic to them, but hopefully more toxic to what they wanted to be rid of>
Also could I put liverock in the sumps to help with the bioload?
<... not with copper, or copper/Formalin, no>
I assume not if I use the QuickCure. Is there something out there I can use that is safe for inverts as well as treat the fish I receive for disease?
<No>
Sorry for all of the questions but I am just a poor hobbyist who has put his entire life savings into following his dream of owning a LFS. I am in need of some sound advice from a non commissioned third party with the same passion for aquatic life...Thanks
<Do you have an equity partner who is "there", on the floor? I would get one... quick... so you can invest some time learning the trade (perhaps by traveling, visiting wholesalers of livestock)... There are sections on WWM re retail, and elements like "Guerilla Acclimation" that you should read, take to heart... QUICKLY! I realize it is difficult (with day to day, moment to moment work, crises...) but you need to rid your systems of the problems they have (inherently, like the filtration... I would add substantial UV here... and a strong protocol for net, specimen container sterilization between uses...), and the infested systems as they exist (likely systematically coppering... or if more practical, bleaching/nuking and starting over... by section), and prevent new troubles (by careful buying, dip/baths, acclimation)... Not easy to do, but absolutely necessary if you're to stay in business. Look to "better suppliers" if you have doubts on this part of the equation... Quality Marine, Sea Dwelling Creatures, Underwater World... to name a few LA outfits. Bob Fenner>

Vague questions about important marine disease issues  10/2/05
Hey, Kristen again.  Now since I am using copper in my 25g QT tank, the levels went up (slightly nitrite a little over .25 and same with ammonia).  My raccoon bf is still breathing heavy and I did two 30% water changes and the levels won't decrease at all.  I was thinking of going out and getting a filter pad with carbon and sucking all of the copper out since I don't see anymore spots on him (although he's still twitching).  Do you think this is a good idea?  
<Not if the treatment isn't complete...>
And approx. how long will it take the levels to go down to a safer zone after the copper is out of the system?
<Possibly a week... weeks>
In the future, if the velvet or ick (whichever it was) comes back, am fearful of what to treat it with.  All the medications make the levels rise and he doesn't seem to tolerate that too well.  Any suggestions?  
<... this is all posted on WWM>
I also, performed two fresh water dips during this treatment.
Thanks again, you guys are life savers!!
Kristen
<Mmm, please go to WWM, read re Disease in general, Parasitic Disease... treatments... until you understand what you're up to. Bob Fenner>

Marine Ich - Read On - 09/17/2005
Hi Crew,
I have a 200 FOWLR  tank with a blue tang, mimic tang, bursa trigger, Sailfin tang, tomato clown, 2 blue damsels and a yellowtail damsel. I have a wet/dry filter, protein skimmer and a UV sterilizer. I also have crabs and Brittlestars. I noticed about 2 weeks ago that the blue tang was rubbing against the rocks and now about 4 white spots that look like ich has come up on him. I was wondering what is the best way to treat this so I don't affect the invertebrates?
<Much is already archived on this topic....  you need only to read, use our site and its search bars.  Start here:  http://www.wetwebmedia.com/ichartmar.htm , and the links in blue at the top of that page, and continue here:  http://www.wetwebmedia.com/mardisindex.htm .  Wishing you well,  -Sabrina>

Please help,  sick fish  9/13/05
We have a 3 inch lei trigger and an emperor angel in a quarantine tank, for
what we think was the ich.  They were treated with Cupramine and when that
didn't work we used Quick Cure, which after 10 days seemed to be working.  However now there fins
seem to be deteriorating away.   The emperor has also developed these nodule growths
on fins. White and irregular in size.  We are now treating them with tetracycline.    
The fish store told us to stop the quick cure, and in just one day now the trigger has a
salt like spot on his head.   We are doing 50-80 percent water changes everyday, and can't keep the
nitrites and ammonia low enough (both at .35)   We have a suitable filter, however the fish
store instructed us on keeping all liverock out.   I'm just wondering if these
water conditions are stressing them out and bringing on new problems.<Yes, they can>  Any help will  be
greatly appreciated.     thank you,  
<First off, know what the disease is before treating.  If it is ich, copper is a reliable cure but should be monitored with a copper test kit.  Underdosing does no good and overdosing causes more undue stress and leads to other problems such as copper poisoning.  As for the ammonia level, sounds like your QT isn't large enough to support two fish.  The large water changes aren't necessary.  With a QT large enough, a 10% change daily would suffice.  James (Salty Dog)>

Tang disease and wrasse behavior problems  9/5/05
Hello crew,
Once again I have managed to get myself into a tough spot.
I have a 110 gal tank (3 months old, 40 lbs rock--live and base, 20 lbs sand, wet/dry filter, powerhead.
Inhabitants: 2 months dogface puffer, 3 days yellow tang) , a 29 gal (15 months old, 6 lbs live rock, crushed coral substrate, AquaClear filter, powerhead. inhabitant: 1 year Hawkfish, and 14months choc. chip star), and a 10 gal QT basic setup (inhabitant: lunar wrasse-6 inches).   My lunar wrasse attacked and killed my damsel last week, they were both in the 110 with the puffer at the time.  He then turned his attention on the puffer so I felt it was necessary to get him out of the tank before he killed my favorite fish.  At the time I had a tang who had been in QT for 10 days.  I made a
quick switch and put the tang in the 110 and the wrasse in the 10 gal.  I like the wrasse however he can't seem to play well with others. I was going to research the possibility of putting him in the 29 and moving the Hawkfish to the
110.  Well today I came home to my yellow tang covered in tiny black spots, there must be a hundred.
<These are peculiar to the tang... please read here: http://www.wetwebmedia.com/YellowTang.htm
and the linked "YT Disease" FAQs files above...>
Now  I can't treat the tang nor can I put the wrasse back in the 110.  I don't have a day off for 2 days so I can't even consider just returning the wrasse to the LFS.  I am concerned about the puffer and tang.  
I can try to catch the tang for a freshwater dip but I can't isolate and medicate her. Can I try hyposalinity to fight the black spots?
<Could... but best to use two nets, remove, dip and place elsewhere... perhaps the 29>
There is no way I can put the wrasse back in with the puffer, he is a devil.  Any advice would be well appreciated.  BTW, water parameters: amm & no2 = 0 all tanks,  no3 20 to 30 in QT and 110, less than 20 in 29gal.  ph=8.2 all tanks, S.G.= 1.023 in 29 and 110, 1.021 in QT  temp= 78 all tanks.  All animals are eating well and
none have labored breathing.
Hope I gave you enough info to help me.  Thanks very much.
Beth
<Read a bit re Paravortex, easily defeated. Cheers, Bob Fenner>

Lack Of Info, Infinite Possibilities - 09/03/2005
Hi Crew,
<Hello.>
My seven fish have suddenly died over the past month including two just last night. They looked fine one day and was dead the next. I checked the water and everything is fine. Are there reasons that can explain my fish's sudden deaths?
<An almost infinite amount of possible explanations.  Not enough info to go off, here.  Please do make use of our site and search tools.>
Thanks,  E
<Wishing you well,  -Sabrina>