Barely averted disaster, SW pH... anomaly   9/17/09
OK now .... I'm totally creeped out
I have a 65 gallon show tank FOWLR except for the coral frags my son got a month ago.
I have a 20 gallon bare quarantine tank with a Hawkfish that's in transition.
Yesterday, the Hawkfish showed signs of distress in the afternoon so we did a water test using AQI test kits Ammonia, Nitrite, Nitrate, Ph, Phosphate
Nitrite was 1.0+
<Yikes!>
and Ph was 7.8 -- so a severe water change and Ph buffer treated both, by evening Hawkfish was fine.
That's all background.
For QC purposes, I ran all tests on the main tank and the change water -- for reference points -- everything was fine.
This morning, 7am ... all fish in all tanks are in distress ... water tests in line EXCEPT Ph was 7.8 !!!!!!
So I tested the Rubbermaid container where we keep the change water ..... 8.0 !!!!!
Unusually, the top of the change water container was left off overnight -- clue?????
What airborne/atmospheric can change the Ph so radically overnight?
<Yes; does. Please read here: http://wetwebmedia.com/mphtrbl.htm
and the linked files above. B>
D

Re: Barely averted disaster  9/17/09
LOL maybe after I get done burying all the fish I'll have time to read all that
D
<Maybe... I'll make a comment after your next email. B>

Re: Barely averted disaster
Sorry about that last email -- not your fault for trying to help ..... it's just that I just had to dispose of our most prized tang
<Understand>
I think I'm going to give up on marine aquaria.... the Ph was 8.3 on Monday (9/14/09) and it was 8.3 on every Monday since we set up the new tank in February ... and it was ABSOLUTELY 8.3 yesterday when I used the main tank as a 'control' to verify my test kit -- and this morning it's 7.8 and nothing ... that is HUH-THING changed. Except for the Ph and the 3 dead fish
<Something amiss either in terms of your alkalinity (reserve) and/or a source of reduction (acid) here>
The puzzling thing is an airborne contaminate that can have that sudden an effect and I was home all day and noticed nothing. Damn. Anyway .... now, sadly, I have the time to dive into the reading. I didn't mean to lash out at a friend.  D
<No worries... My SOP stmt is to note that marine aquarium keeping is about 1/3 science, 1/3 art and 1/3 voodoo... Compared with freshwater systems, including their biota... WHOM have much wider tolerance for change, rates of change (as evolutionarily their environments have been MUCH less stable, short-lived), saltwater has many more "unknowns". B>

High pH Problems In 210 gallon FOWLR 9/15/09
Hey there Crew, Grant here.
<Hello Grant>
I have a 210 gallon FOWLR with a couple angels, two tangs and some flame angels. Everyone is coexisting happily, except my big tang sure doesn't like any new fish. That's good though, it keeps me from wandering away from my original stocking plan!
I recently thought my pH was dropping. It seemed to be getting lower and lower from the usual 8.2 it sat at during the day.
When it hit 8.0, I started adding Seachem's pH Marine Buffer. I put in an entire bottle over the course of a week. This amount is supposedly good for 500g. I have about a 235 gallon system when my sump is included. You would think this would be enough to raise my pH at least 0.1, but no, it didn't.
<Buffers do not directly raise pH, but provide a means for maintaining pH.
Good reading for you here.
http://www.wetwebmedia.com/alkalinity.htm>
My pH slowly dropped. After a month, it was all the way down at 7.8. In this time, I've done lots of 10% water changes, at least 6 or 7. I do them on the weekends but I did a couple mid week just to try to balance out whatever was going whacky with my water. During that month, I've added two more of the bottles of Seachem's pH Marine buffer. Wow, enough buffer to handle 1500 gallons of water and still, my pH slowly drops. Long story short, I had a set of 7.0 pH sample and 10.0 pH sample liquids, used to calibrate pH probes. I figured I might as well give it a shot and see if it isn't my probe that's faulty. I'm new to electronic monitoring of pH, my Reef Keeper 2 does it for me and I don't have the manual pH test kits anymore.
Sure enough, after calibration and sitting in my tank water again for an hour to make sure it's stabilized, my pH reading is 8.49! Much higher than I thought. I don't have a hardness test hit but I bet it's out the roof.
<I'm sure the dKH is high.>
The weird thing is I thought when hardness and pH were real high, the water would be slightly cloudy but my tank looks great.
<Not necessarily.>
Anyway, this was a long story to get to my questions; I just wanted to make sure you had the facts and the approximate timeline of events.
First off, can this high of a pH be bad for fish long term? I know the recommended range is somewhere between 8 and 8.3, so this doesn't seem too far off.
<No, not dangerously high, it's a sudden shift of pH that may cause problems.>
If it is bad for them, I can lower it, I have pH lowering stuff by Seachem, I can't remember the exact name but you add it slowly over the course of days and it really works.
<Is called Acid Buffer.>
I used to use it on my freshwater tank for discus, although it's made for marine aquariums. Anyhoo, I can lower it if you guys think it needs to be? Otherwise, I'm sure over the course of the next month or so with regular water changes it will slowly drop back down to 8.2-8.3. I'd prefer to just let it naturally correct, but if 8.5 is a danger I can drop it over the course of a couple days down to 8.2.
<I'd let it adjust naturally.>
My Convict Tang, a little 3" beauty, has stopped eating in the last week.
It still looks healthy but it just doesn't eat. It goes right up to food, like the Nori clip, swims all around it and looks like it really wants to eat, but doesn't. I also feed NLS pellets and it loves the 1mm, or at least it used to. Now it just follows a pellet wistfully then turns around. I've also tried feeding PE mysis and also Hikari mysis; it follows the food again but won't eat.
Can high pH cause this? Keep in mind it raised over the course of a month, it wasn't as if I just blasted up to hugely high pH in a day.
<Shouldn't, not a gradual increase as you mention.>
All my other fish seem fine and no one is picking on him, he pretty much sticks to himself.
Any advice you have would be great, thanks!
<As long as the tang appears healthy and is actively swimming/foraging, I'd just continue to observe. May also be a water quality issue, high nitrate/nutrient levels.
Do you use a protein skimmer and/or a good chemical media such as Chemi Pure? Reading the FAQ's on this genus re foods,
feeding, and nutrition, may reveal if others have had similar problems along with suggestions to correct.
http://www.wetwebmedia.com/acantfdgfaqs.htm
James (Salty Dog)>
Grant

pH And Baking Soda 8/5/09
Real quick question for you guys. I've been dosing baking soda lately in one of my 29g QTs, not a lot but I'm treating a fish in there with Cupramine and I've noticed my pH slowly dropping.
My procedure is I take a cup of tank water, mix in 1/4 cup of pure baking soda (unscented) and then pour it into the tank when I'm doing a 25% water change which happens every 2 days.
Long story short, my pH still is reading around 7.9 to 8.0.
On a whim, I ran my cup of mix out to my main 210g tank with the electrical pH probe and dropped it in there. It dropped from my tanks steady 8.2 pH to down around 5 before I pulled it out. I mean it dropped really fast down to there, like within 10 seconds it was down to 5.
Is that actually correct or is my probe just freaking out because there was so much baking soda in the cup?
<Freaking out, after adding buffers, pH readings will not be accurate for a few hours.>
1/4 cup of baking soda in a glass tends to make it look almost like milk but it clears up right away when dumped into the aquarium.
Anyway, any help you can give on this would be great. Thankfully my main tank keeps a steady pH so I've never had to deal with pH problems but this one is starting to alarm me and would certainly indicate why I cant get my pH in the QT up above 7.9, if the baking soda is actually driving down the pH. I only started putting in baking soda because of reading some article's of Bob about QT and doing freshwater dips, he suggested the way to get a good 8.3 or so pH would be to mix in a couple tablespoons of baking soda
to the 5g bucket of fresh water.
<Take a dKH test several hours after the baking soda is added. A dKH of 6-9 will be needed to maintain the proper pH long term. A pH of 7.9 is not dangerous as long as the fish is drip acclimated before returning to the main display. You may want to compare your pH test reading with that of the electronic pH device.
Your test kit may be reading low.>
Thanks for what you guys and gals do, I've learned a lot on your site!
<You're welcome. James (Salty Dog)>
Grant

Re pH And Baking Soda 8/6/09
Thank you for the quick answer.
<You're welcome.>
The only reason I haven't tested my QT water with my electronic probe that is hooked to my DT is I'm afraid of ich or something transferring into the QT. I'm religious about not ever using the same tube, net, container, NOTHING from the QT ever touches the DT.
<A good practice.>
Will dipping an electronic probe (just the end) in bleach after I test the QT water hurt the probe? If not, I'd be willing to try that.
<Not full strength for sure. Just four drops of bleach in a quart of water will disinfect/kill most anything placed into it, and should not damage your probe.
Allow the probe to be in the solution 15-30 minutes and rinse the probe well in fresh water before returning to your display tank.>
Also, you mentioned the dKH has to be up around 6-9 to get my pH to be stable long term... will baking soda raise dKH or does it only just temporarily raise pH? For instance, if I continually add baking soda, will my dKH eventually get up there or is the baking soda just a band aid to the pH problem and it wont fix it long term?
<What lowers the pH is the presence of acids in the water. When this occurs, the buffers in the water are neutralizing the acids, and when the buffers are exhausted, the pH will fall. Baking soda will not appreciably raise the pH, but provide more buffering ability to maintain it. To raise 50 gallons of tank water by 1 mEq/L will require about 16 grams of baking soda.
Since a level teaspoon of baking soda weighs just under 6 grams, then 1 teaspoon will raise the alkalinity in that 50 gallons by 0.4 mEq/L (1 dKH).
To raise the pH, you will need to use a product such as SeaChem's Marine Buffer which is designed to adjust pH to 8.3 and maintain both pH and alkalinity(dKH).
Reading here will provide you with a much more detailed explanation of the subject. http://www.wetwebmedia.com/alkalinity.htm>
Thanks again, you guys are great.
<You're welcome. James (Salty Dog)>

pH Crash After Removing Substrate 7/21/09
Hello all,
<Hi Ben>
I moved my small marine aquarium to a different place in the same room over the weekend. I siphoned most of the water out into clean buckets, and put the fish into one of the buckets along with an airstone. While I had the water and fish out I decided to lower the level of substrate from about 1 1/2 inches of aragonite gravel down to about 1/2 inch, hoping that this would help to alleviate some nuisance algae growth. I filled the tank back up with the same water, less a 5 gallon water change, and when the filters cleared the water up, added the fish back in. The next morning, two of my three fish were dead. I had two clarkii clowns and a yellowtail damsel.
Only the smaller clown survived, and he didn't look too well. The only invert other than live rock is a large Condy anemone (I know - Atlantic - but the clowns hosted in it anyway), and it seemed unaffected.
I ran tests on the water, and the only thing I could come up with was that the pH had fallen from 8.2 down to about 7.9 - I presume because I removed part of the buffer.
<More likely by disturbing the substrate, you released some hydrogen sulphide gas and/or excess nutrients into the water causing it to become a little more acidic.>
I do not have an alkalinity test kit,
<Not good.>
so I don't know what that value is. I suppose there is some small chance that I introduced some sort of contaminant into the system, but I tried to be extra careful to avoid that.
<Yes, likely the hydrogen sulphide. Did you detect a rotten egg odor while removing the substrate?>
To try to recover, I added about 1 1/2 tsp of baking soda on Sunday morning, and a pH reading later in the day showed that the level had risen to 8.0. Meanwhile, the remaining clown seems to be recovering - he ate some food and took up residence in the anemone. As we speak, he's clearing bits of gravel out from under the anemone. This morning, the pH was back down to 7.9.
<Is best to take a pH reading mid-day.>
I did a 5 gallon water change and added 1 1/2 more tsp. of baking soda.
My question is, where do I go from here? Should I add some of the removed substrate back in?
Continue with baking soda? Leave things alone?
<First, you need to get a alkalinity test kit. The dKH is an important parameter to maintain, and without knowing what it is, it would be futile for me to make any suggestions at present. I would not add any more baking soda without knowing what the dKH is.>
My normal water change schedule has been 5 gallons at a time, usually every 4 to 7 days, and it has worked pretty well thus far, other than a bit more algae growth than I'd like. It seems to be mostly Caulerpa, Halimeda, and hair algae. A lighting fixture upgrade some months ago seems to have favored the Caulerpa and killed off most of the hair algae. I was hoping the removal of excess substrate would help the algae situation, along with a recently added powerhead for extra circulation.
<A good protein skimmer would help here.>
Here are tank stats:
Tank: 36x14x12 (30 gallon)
Ammonia: 0
Nitrite: 0
Nitrate: between 0 and 5 ppm
pH: 7.9
Phosphate: 0
Skimmer: AquaC Remora
<OK, you do have a good skimmer.>
Filter/Circulation: HOB power filter with carbon, powerhead
Lighting: 4x39w T5HO, 2 actinic, 2 full spectrum. Actinics: 8am-8pm, Full 9am-7pm.
Livestock: about 40lb live rock, 1 Condylactis anemone, 1 clarkii clown.
Just lost: 1 clarkii clown, 1 yellowtail damsel.
All livestock had been in tank for 1.5 to 2 years prior to this weekend's meltdown.
<Test the water for dKH and adjust, you will likely solve the pH problem.
Read here and related articles in header for help in controlling algae.
http://www.wetwebmedia.com/algaeconMar.htm>
Thanks for your help,
<You're welcome. James (Salty Dog)>
-Ben

Chronic low pH, sodium hydroxide SW Water Quality pH 7/17/2009
Hello to the WWM crew. I have learned so much from your web site, thanks for all the effort that you put into educating the hobbyist.
<Hi Frank, thank you for the kind words.>
I have set up a 120 g tank which was cycled nine months ago. I have a pair of banded
coral shrimp and Ricordea mushrooms in the tank, no fish yet. Sump has a compartment for macro algae and I run it on reverse photo period. The bio load is very light for now and I am planning to make this a home for a pair of saddleback or Clarkii clowns with Ricordea mushrooms propagating on the rocks.
<Will make for an interesting display.>
The only problem with this tank is low pH. I tried two different bands of chemical test kits as well as a Pinpoint pH monitor and got three different readings.
<Not at all surprising.>
Since pH value is expressed in logarithmic scale, I was dissatisfied with the performance of the test kits. Unfortunately, Pinpoint does not specify the accuracy range for their monitor, they only specify the resolution (two decimal points) which doesn't mean much and has no correlation to the device accuracy.
<Agreed.>
As a result, I ordered another electronic pH test kit made by Hanna Instruments with +/- 0.01 accuracy
(model Piccolo 2). To my surprise, the Pinpoint readings were not bad at all and more accurate than the chemical test kits (Elos and Seachem).
<No surprises here either.>
The pH in the tank is between 7.85 to 8.05.
<Lower than what we would like to see.>
I have tried to help the pH problem by dosing Kalkwasser via a Kalk reactor as well as dosing soda ash
solution. The problem is that beside the pH, alkalinity (carbonate) and Ca concentrations are affected as well and this tank has practically no consumption for neither one.
<Agreed.>
I have played with the dosing quantities with no significant remedy that can resolve this issue.
The root cause of the problem is high concentration of CO2 in the water. I know that from performing an aeration test with tank water and fresh salt water inside and outside of the house.
The difference is around 0.3 pH points. I am thinking to run an air tube from the porch to the skimmer in the sump and run an air pump to feed fresh air to the tank, but most likely my wife will not approve (kill me), because I will have to drill into a three bay French door to get the air tube through.
<Heheh, understand that as well.>
My goal is to slowly dose a chemical that helps the pH but does not significantly affect Ca and alkalinity. I have found a source for sodium hydroxide (Lye) and potassium hydroxide that is suppose to be high grade.
Both chemicals are highly alkaline and abrasive, but a weak solution can be dosed (as Kalkwasser is highly alkaline but is widely used). One drawback that I see is an imbalance in the ions by having higher sodium or potassium concentrations in the water. But both sodium and potassium are major elements and their concentration may not matter much if at all.
Similarly, adjusting the salt water mix for magnesium using magnesium chloride or magnesium sulfate will add S or Cl ions to the water and creates an imbalance, but that really doesn't' matter much. In fact not all salt manufacturers follow the true sea water concentrations anyway.
<Light dosing is unlikely to have any significant impact.>
I suppose the hydroxide component (anion) in the sodium hydroxide would quickly react with the carbonic acid to mitigate the pH issue.
<Yes>
Am I missing something here? I need a sanity check.
<No holes in your logic, other than the caution to start dilute and adjust slowly.>
If something this simple could work, why it is not a common practice in the trade?
<It is, just in very low concentrations. The "pH Up" products usually contain a weak solution of NaOH.>
Please help.
Regards,
Frank
<MikeV>

Re: Water Quality: Ph Decline: (4/1/2009) Update and skimmer selection 5/26/2009
Hi Mike,
<Hi Junaid!>
Its been a while since my last email. I followed your suggestions about my pH decline issue. I mix the saltwater 2 to 3 days in advance and keep in aerated with a Rio pump. The pH is a little better than what it was before.  Still not 8.3 but I am not sweating it too much. At least now it doesn't go below 7.85 at night. Before it was going down to as low as 7.5!
<Excellent news. Again, stability is more important than trying to hit an exact number.>
Besides keeping the water mixed up in advance, I also have two airstones in my sump to keep it aerated which I think is helping as well.
<It is.>
I also have a couple of powerheads pointing towards the surface of the water and the agitation I believe is also helping. I think aeration was the main issue. Since my pH problems, I have also installed a double chamber Calcium Reactor so with the changes I have made the pH is not declining and I'm a happy reefer!!! All my fish are healthy as well. The Foxface is showing its bright yellow color again as well.
<All excellent news.>
NOW, I have decided to upgrade to a 90 gallon tank!!!
<Hehehe, it starts with a 90, soon it will be a 150.>
I have purchased the tank and have a 40 gallon sump to go with it as well.  It was a separate compartment for a sump and skimmer. It also has a separate compartment to have a refugium which is what I wanted to do for a while now but didn't have space in my sump with the 55 gallon setup. I have everything in place except for the light and protein skimmer. I am not too worried about the light since I know what setup I want (dual 175 W Metal Halide, with 2 fluorescent and 2 actinic).
<Ok>
However, I am having such a hard time with the protein skimmer. I used Marineland 100 for my 55 g setup but I don't think it was a good choice.
<I've heard both good and bad about them.>
I have decided to invest in a very good skimmer. I think I have narrowed it down to a Aqua C EV 120 or the Aqua Medic Turboflotor 1000.
EuroReef and Deltecs are too expensive and I can probably do with the two choices I have mentioned.
<I agree>
Basically my range is $350 to $400 CDN. I have searched and searched so much but the more I search for a good choice of skimmers, the more my head gets clouded! From your experience, what would be a very very good choice for an in sump protein skimmer for a 90 gallon setup? Besides the two choices, I am willing to lean at other suggestion as well. Please advise. Looking forward to your response.
<Either of those skimmers would serve you well. Of the two though, I would choose the Aqua C as being just a bit better.>
Junaid
<MikeV>

Question on pH and Temperature 5/8/09
Hi Guys,
<Hi Barry>
I have a question and am sure you can enlighten me.
<I'll try my best.>
Does the pH of a marine tank correlate with the temperature of the water?
Situation - pH used to be fine during the colder seasons but of late, it's risen to about 88 degrees Fahrenheit. I know it's a tad warm and I'm desperately trying to cool it down.
<Definitely a tad warm.>
The pH has also concurrently gone up to 8.55. Is this coincidental or related?
<Going up likely is coincidental. Going down would be more likely as waste can break down a little quicker in warm water.>
Does this rise have anything to do with the rise in temperature and do I have to take any urgent measures?
<You're pH isn't dangerously high. With your measurement of 8.55, I'm
guessing you are using an electronic testing device. You may want to recalibrate your meter, may be off a tad. The only measure I would take is to try and get the temperature closer to 80.>
Other water parameters are fine: nitrites 0, nitrates 12ppm, SG 1.025.
If pH is a concern, what should I do to gradually bring it down to a reasonable 8.3/8.4 and over what span of time should that be paced?
<Are you dosing Kalkwasser?>
Will the inhabitants of the tank be drastically affected at this temperature
and pH level?
<I'm sure they aren't to fond of it, but if they are in good health and you have good water movement, they should survive. Do not know the make up of your system, but do employ cooling fans to aid in getting that temperature down. James (Salty Dog)>>
Cheers,
B

pH Too low and KH problem... again, sans reading  4/19/09
I've been testing my water regularly and reading up quite a bit only to find that the numbers I have are quite unusual.
<Okay.>
Tank size approx 90L of water and 4 months old. Has 2 clowns, 1 mandarin, <This fish in a 90L will not work long term, see:
http://www.wetwebmedia.com/mandarins.htm
and the linked files above.>
1 royal dotty back, 1 purple goby, 1 peppermint shrimp. 1 mini hammer, a frogspawn, a bubble, 2 GSP, 3 tubes, a small Blasto, a sea fan, a few Zoa, a super sun and an open brain. Running a skimmer and about 1kg of biohome and about min. 10kg of LR. Chiller set at 26 Celsius. Good all round circulation in tank.
<?>
PH = 7.8
Alk = 7.5meg/L (This is way higher that the acceptable range) I use the Seachem test kit and have rechecked using reference solutions, nothing is wrong with the test kit.
Cal = 440
No3 = 5-10
Po = 0.2
LS behavior:
Fishes are all eating well.
Most corals are doing fine and opening, with the exception of a mat of GSP which opens really really slowly (about 1-2 hours after tank lights on).
It is constantly covered with a layer of light brownish algae which I have blown off every 3 days.
<A sign.>
Here's some detailed information on what I dose in my tank on a fixed schedule:
Mon: 2.5ml Grotech Corall A, 2ml Purple up.
Tues: 2.5ml Corall Grotech B
Wed: 2.5ml Corall Grotech C, 2ml Purple up
Thurs: 2.5ml Corall Grotech A
Fri: 2.5ml Corall Grotech B, 2ml Purple up
Sat: 2.5ml Corall Grotech C
Sun: 10% water change with distilled water and tropic Marin pro reef salt.
After the water change, a multi strain bacteria culture is dosed.
<Why?>
Here are what I dose in my tank on a where required basis:
- AZNO3 approx 0.5-1ml - if NO3 is above 10. avg of 0.5ml every 3 days
<Better to control on other ways; water changes, refugium, skimming, and/or appropriate feeding.>
- Alkalin 8.3 to raise my KH and PH. But stopped after I realized KH was way too high.
<A likely product of all the additives.>
I used about 2ml everyday for about 5 days last week (13/04 to 17/04) to bring up my PH. Recommended dosage was a max of 4ml per day for my tank. ad-hoc 10% water change was performed on the 15/04 to help bring levels closer to normal (but little effect).
- Previously was using Seachem PH buffer to increase my PH, but to no avail, so i tried the Alkalin8.3 to aid in my KH and PH. (ok, I admit I didn't check my KH before using this.)
So, in short, my problem is the constantly low PH even with the use of different PH buffers.
<Sure.>
I find it a little confusing to comprehend the relationships between PH, KH (Alk) and Cal. But it seems that usually when KH is high, Cal would usually be low, but not in my situation.
<Both are being jacked about by haphazard dosing.>
And also, from what I read, I gather that when KH is high PH would normally be more acceptable at 8.2 and more stable (as opposed to a low KH), but again, not in my case.
<Not the case in many situations....other factors come into play. Most likely CO2 saturation.>
My question is that will that super high KH be a serious problem?
<It can be.>
Will it be fine to let it slowly fall naturally, or force it down by major water change?
<Not major, but some water changes are in order to get back to a "base line" IMO.>
Ultimately, my goal is to try to solve my PH (and KH) problem and understand what this is happening. Am I not understanding something correctly or doing something wrongly?
<What aeration in the system do you have? The flow is unspecified; do you have/use a skimmer? This can have a large impact on CO2 in your system, hence ph also.>
Apologies for the super load of reading above. Thanks in advance to all for your inputs.
<Cut the additives...rely on your water changes and add specific additives (Ca, KH booster, etc.)
as your actual water tests show you need them. Stay away from the all in ones. Just adding them
per the instructions is what has put you in this situation.>
Cheers!
<Scott V.>

SW Setup: pH issues, overdosing with buffers. Reading 4/11/2009
Hello WWM crew.
<Hi Frank.>
I turn to you once again for help. Let me tell you a quick rundown of my setup.
29 gallon tank with an Eheim canister filter
2 Koralia powerheads for circulation
10-12 pounds of live rock
1 to 1 1/2 inch deep sand bed
ammonia = 0
nitrites = 0
nitrates < 5
pH = 8.0 at its highest
livestock includes a very young snowflake moray, a coral beauty angel, a brown brittle star, and a few hermits and snails.
<As I recall from your previous correspondence.>
My problem is, and has been an ongoing problem at that, I cant seem to keep my pH up.
<Common in smaller systems that are overstocked.>
I initially set up my tank with tap water that I treated about two and half months ago. My alkalinity was sky high for a long time and is still in the 20s and I'm sure that has something to do with my pH problem and also the brittle star losing portions of his limbs.
<20 is extremely high. You really need to step up your water changes: 15 - 20% per week with no added buffers>
But my concern is I have to keep using the buffer ( alternating Seachem powder and Seachem liquid marine buffers that claim to raise to 8.3) to keep the ph at a reasonably safe level for my livestock and I'm starting to think that my Alk is staying so high due to the constant buffering I am having to do.
<It is, stop buffering>
I did a 25 percent water change about two weeks ago with RO DI water that I purchased at the LFS. Their water is already mixed with salt and pre-buffered for ph and they say it is ready to use straight away. Also I
cant seem to keep my calcium up above 300-320 even while dosing with purple up and SeaChem's calcium additive but I have noticed my substrate seems to be clumping in some spots into marble sized or slightly larger chunks.
<Calcium and Alkalinity, in grossly oversimplified terms, fight each other, your alkalinity is way too high to get the calcium levels much higher than what they are now. Read here: http://www.wetwebmedia.com/calcalkmar.htm
and here: http://www.wetwebmedia.com/alkalinity.htm>
Should I remove these or break them up and leave them in the tank? I
<You can break them up, but until you get your alkalinity down, they will keep reforming.>
I am getting ready to transfer to a 46 gallon bow front that I bought on Craig's List and am planning on adding about 50 pounds of cured live rock and 30 pounds of live sand as well as a sump/refugium with an aqua c urchin skimmer. What do you recommend I do about my constant battle with ph and Alk
<Read linked files above.>
Should I set the new tank up from scratch and let it cycle or would it be OK to transfer everything (water, sand, rock, and livestock) to the new tank and just add all the new rock and sand and use the RO DI water to fill to capacity as if doing a large water change?
<Posted on WWM The topic is moving tanks, but all of the facts are relevant to switching tanks as well:
http://www.wetwebmedia.com/movingaq.htm >
Also do you recommend using pvc pipe to make caves underneath the sand bed for the eel?
<It can't hurt, but they will prefer natural caves more.>
Once again I greatly appreciate your insight and guidance with this sometimes difficult but rewarding hobby that I have become addicted to.
Have a great weekend and I look forward to your advice with my problems!
<My pleasure>
<Mike>
Sincerely,
Frank Stubblefield

pH/Kalkwasser drip 4/7/09 Understanding Calcium/Alkalinity Crew: <Doug> I have a two hundred gallon marine tank with mostly rock and sand up stairs it has a 75 gallon sump down stairs. Sitting on top of the tank are 3x150 10K HQI MH and 4 X96W 03 actinic CF. Lights are on 7 hours a day. I have a 5,000 gallon per hour pump with 15 feet of head to the tank. The tank has 6 fish and the largest is a Yellow Tang and a total of 13 other small inhabitants made up of soft and hard corals and a 6 inch long clam. The water returns in a 3 inch pipe to a 4 foot high tower in back of the 75 gallon sump with a diffuser panel at the top and three 5 gallon buckets of live rock rubble above the water line in the tower. Below the water under the tower another 100 lbs of live rock. A Protein skimmer near the sump has ozone and a new calcium reactor (not working yet) in the sump. A 1/3 hp chiller and water stays around 78 degrees. Water change is 20 gallons twice a week with RO/DI water and Corallife salt. Water is aged with air and circulation on both fresh and salt holding tanks. Salt water is buffered to 8.3 PH in holding tank. My system info on the control and testing this morning reads Temp 77.8 PH 8.19 now, but I buffered this morning and it rose a little. I don't want to raise it too much. ORP 381 DO 6.0 Conductivity 54 Salinity 35 PPT Calcium 360 after buffering this morning KH 14 Phosphate 0 Nitrate ion 0ppm About 90% saturation. One of the concerns I have is the PH is always falling to 8.10 during the day <Is normal for a slight drop in pH during the day.> and calcium always goes down as low as 320 overnight. I would need to drip buffer pH and calcium all the time to keep up and I think this will cause a ping pong problem. <A high dKH such as yours (14) can cause calcium to precipitate. I'd keep this around 8 or 9.> I got a new calcium reactor but its not working correctly yet. I had the pH built up slowly to 8.3 last night and calcium to 400. I tried for the first time a Kalkwasser drip. I used 1 tsp in a gallon of RO/DI water after lights out. This morning the pH was again was 8.16 and the calcium was 360. I guess I need to try two tsp tonight after buffering everything back up to STDs? I know I got to get the reactor working! But I still wonder what is driving the pH down and the calcium without a heavy load of fish and other items in the tank. Maybe the pH buffering is driving the calcium down and dKH high. <Exactly. Do read here my friend. http://www.wetwebmedia.com/calcalkmar.htm> Should I just get the dKH and calcium right and let the pH settle where it wants to over 8.0? <Just get the dKH down to 8 or 9 and you shouldn't see the calcium swing as much. Are you keeping your magnesium levels up? Is a major element of seawater and helps corals to absorb the calcium.> Thanks for your time. <You're welcome. James (Salty Dog)> Doug pH/Kalkwasser drip query – 04/07/09 Bob, There are two photos included with the query. I couldn't open either of them. James <Strange... I could/can... maybe you have some sort of blocking software at work on your machine that won't allow... B>  Maybe, next time that happens I'm going to disable the Norton software and see what happens. J <Ok!>

pH Decline: Need more information. 4/1/2009
Hi There,
<Hello Junaid>
First of all, let me say that this is THE site for anything saltwater. It is great to see great minds helping the saltwater community. I have been reading so many posts since the past four months ever since I started my saltwater reef setup again after taking a two year break and it has helped me in saving both time and money. I have searched for a lot of information regarding a decline in pH and wanted to ask you if what I am doing is fine.
<Thank you for the kind words.>
Let me first give you a background of my tank. It is 55 gallons, overflow box with wet/dry trickle filter with bio balls, Marineland Pro 100 in sump protein skimmer, 200 Watts heater, JBJ Formosa Power Compact Fixture Lights (2 10,000K and 2 Actinic Blue tubes with a total of 260 Watts of power), two air stones, glass canopies which pretty much cover about 80% of the top of the tank about, 50 lbs of live rock, a clean up crew, 2 Clowns, 1 Blue Hippo Tang, 1 Lawnmower Blenny, 1 Fox Face, and 4 LPS corals (bubble, flower, leather, polyp).
<Hmm... overstocked for a 55 gallon>
I use RO/DI water for all water changes. I do 10% water changes every week since I started my setup. I use Tropic Marin Salt Pro for my new saltwater mixes ever since I started using corals. I used Instant Ocean before. When I mix the salt and bring up the water temperature, my pH is at 8.8. However, as soon as I put the water in and wait for about a day for the water to be circulated properly, my pH has always been 8.0 and sometimes a little lower no matter what time of day I check it. At night it is low as well.
<How soon after mixing the water do you introduce it to the tank?>
I take the sample water to test pH from the middle of the tank. I have been using Kent Marine’s pH buffer but that raises the pH for a day and that’s it. I don’t want to keep on doing this forever.
<What is the alkalinity\KH?>
Something has to be wrong. I don’t think my problem is in aeration since I use a wet/dry trickle filter and a
protein skimmer and the two air stones probably help slightly as well which should provide enough aeration. I might be wrong here? Do I need to remove my glass covers completely? So what I am going to try and do today which I have already started is leaving my window open in the room where the tank is. I live in Toronto so we have the windows closed since it gets too cold.
But after reading posts here, it seems like that might be a problem.
<No, that isn't it.>
I will also try to get a cup of glass and aerate it by leaving it out around my kitchen area and then test the water after 12 hours. I don’t know if this causes less aeration although the setup I have should be enough. Besides not having good air in my house due to it being boxed up, do you think there might be any other reason for the decline in pH?
<Lots of variables here. Overstocking, substrate, amount of food fed, etc. Do read here: http://www.wetwebmedia.com/alkalinity.htm >
I also think that low pH might be getting to my Foxface Rabbitfish. When I first got it, it used to be bright yellow like it should be but now it is always a little brown.
<Hmm... what are the other readings? Ammonia, Nitrite, Nitrate, etc?>
My corals seem to be doing fine as well with the low pH but it will be a problem once I start adding more corals.
Also can you also give me a quick answer on my JBJ Formosa light fixture? Do you think it is enough light for SPS corals to thrive? Most LFS I spoke with said yes but to keep them at the top of the tank. Please let me know of your suggestions.
<That lighting should be fine for this tank.>
Thanks for all your help.
<My Pleasure>
Junaid
<Mike>

Re: Water Quality: Ph Decline: Need more information: (4/1/2009) More information given. 4/13/2009
Hi Mike,
<Hello again Junaid.>
I wanted to wait for a week and do some tests before I answered your questions.
<Very good, much more reliable than spot tests.>
You had mentioned that my tank was overstocked for a 55 gallon.
<Yes, everything may "fit" now, but as the fish grow larger, space will get tight. Plus, the Tang and the Foxface are big eaters\defecators, which will degrade water quality>
Since I do 10% water changes every weekly, shouldn’t that be okay?
<For a lightly stocked tank, yes, as yours is more crowded, larger water changes would help keep the water quality up.>
I make sure that I do not overfeed as well. 90% of the food is consumed within 3 minutes after I introduce it to the tank and 10% goes to the bottom which is
consumed by the crabs, etc.
<You will want to cut this back so 99+% of the food is consumed in three minutes and less than 1% falls to the bottom for the crabs. The crabs will eat uneaten food, algae, fish waste, etc.>
My ammonia and nitrites levels are 0 and Nitrates is between 5 and 10 ppm. Most of the time, it’s towards 5 ppm. My alkalinity fluctuates between 4 and 4.5 mEq/L.
<Your alkalinity is a bit high, which will inhibit your ability to raise the calcium level. Do also realize that to successfully raise your calcium, your magnesium level needs to be three times greater than your calcium.
You can read about calcium and alkalinity here: http://www.wetwebmedia.com/calcalkmar.htm and here: >
I got a better testing kit to measure my pH as well. I am now using Seachem to measure my pH and Alkalinity. When the lights are on, my pH is around 8.1
and when the lights are off, it is around 7.9 to 8.0.
<OK, so you aren't that far off. a pH shift with the lights off is normal>
I have crushed coral as my substrate. Would having live sand help with maintaining a higher pH?
<A finer substrate will help with keeping the pH stable. Further, a coarse substrate easily traps uneaten food\fish waste, which may be contributing to your problem.>
I also just started using the Seachem Calcium supplement to raise my calcium levels as well. Currently the calcium levels are at 350. I think there is no
way around avoiding to add calcium supplements to the water as and when needed unless I get a calcium reactor…
<True.>
You had asked me how soon after mixing the water do I introduce it to the tank. I usually wait about 12 to 18 hours before I put the newly mixed
saltwater into the tank.
<A bit too soon. It is best to mix up the water at least 24 hours in advanced. Two to three days would be better.>
Regarding the Foxface, I spoke to someone who has it and he had mentioned that it took his Foxface almost two to three months to get its bright yellow
color back since it was not used to the tank. My Foxface is eating fine and moves around the tank with my Blue Hippo Tang all the time. Hopefully, this
is not a big concern and it will feel at home soon…
<With good care, it most certainly will.>
Thanks for your help. Looking forward to hearing from you.
<There are a few suggestions, as a pH of 8.1 isn't too bad, 8.2 - 8.3 would be better, but this isn't a show stopper by any means stability over the long term is the key. One important thing to remember: trying to adjust the water once it is in your tank is like chasing a rainbow. You need to make adjustments in your makeup water that you use for water changes. This, over a few weeks, will get the water levels in your tank to where they need to be First I would test the pH and Alk of your source water. If it is soft or acidic, this will contribute to your problem. Next, I would make your water up in advance by two to three days, then test the pH and Alk of that water. If you are getting a mEq\l of 3 - 4 and a pH of 8.2. on your mixed water, you are in good shape. Otherwise, you can adjust the water parameters here, rather than in your tank
Junaid
<Mike>

Re: Water Quality: Ph Decline: Need more information: (4/1/2009) More information given. 4/13/2009
Thanks for your quick reply Mike.
<My Pleasure.>
I will be go by your suggestions about mixing water 3 to 4 days in advance and changing the water parameters when
needed. I will let you know of my findings in a couple of weeks.
<Ahh, very good, look forward to hearing the results.>
Junaid
<Mike>

pH question; cold water.- 02/04/09
Hi Marco,
<Hello Ross>
You've been most helpful answering questions I have had in the past. I hope you don't mind that I emailed you directly.
<Not at all.>
To remind you: I have a 100 gallon, cold, salt water tank. In the past, I wrote you because my nitrates were high and I had a sea star that was ripping itself apart.
<I remember.>
Currently, I don't have a lot in the tank ( 7 brittle stars, 3 urchins, couple of snails and a hermit crab). When I had more critters in the tank I had the high nitrate problem and the pH would fall slightly over time (8.4 to say 8.0). Now that the load on the tank is so much smaller, my nitrates are fine but my pH is really high (8.6-8.8). Part of my problem is this:
because I work in a school science lab, our tap water is treated so that it is very basic to counterbalance any acids poured down the drain. So doing frequent water changes won't bring down the pH because the water I'm using
is so high to begin with. I just tested the Alkalinity of the water and it is very high as well (3.6). I don't really want to buy bottled water because that could get expensive. Should I use some sort of "pH down" (which I think is just sulfuric acid) or should I not worry about it.
Hopefully, we will soon be getting some new critters so the pH might start to drop due to natural processes but I don't want them to have pH shock when I put them in the water. Suggestions?
<First it has to be noted that a stable pH with a slight daily cycle is more helpful than having exactly the wanted pH. Second: the pH of cold sea water is often higher than in tropical sea water. However, values above 8.2 are rare, and 8.6 usually only occurs in coastal cold water areas with very high plankton occurrence (and sometimes tidal pools). Third: Some electronic pH meters have no automatic temperature compensation and will give you wrong numbers when used in cold instead of warm water. Four: Check if the salinity of the tank is as you would like to have it. High
salinities can be related to high pH.
There are several options how this problem can be solved: My personal approach would be to invest into a simple Reverse Osmosis (RO) unit. This should easily solve the pH problem and also help to improve water quality
by holding back a lot of unwanted ions. Careful dosing of diluted sulphuric acid
<<Mmmm, VERY careful... there are some products made of H2SO4 outside the U.S. for ornamental aquatics use... But not in the States... DO take great care if using. RMF>>
 or commercial products to lower the pH, as you noted, is an alternative method, but you would have to use a metering pump or a DIY unit to let it drip slowly into the tank (into an area with high current or preferably the sump) to avoid pH swings. However, adding accidentally too much could be fatal, pH swings due to irregular addition would also potentially disturb the biology of the tank. Also, you note the water of the lab is treated, what about the water in other parts of the school? The use of tap water is discussed here:
http://www.wetwebmedia.com/water4maruse.htm .
When adding new animals from an environment with a lower pH the acclimation process has to be undertaken very slow by dripping tank water into the bucket with the new animal over several hours as described here:
http://www.wetwebmedia.com/acclimat.htm . The higher the pH difference, the longer the acclimation period should be.>
Thanks. Ross
<I hope this helps. Marco.>

Re: Water quality... CO2... pH effect... more    1/8/09
Hello,
<Hello Jim.>
Per Minh's instruction I did the "Aeration Test". With exterior air the PH rose to about 8.3 from 7.9.
<Did you also do the same Aeration Test with inside air? Did the pH remain the same or close to 7.9? If this is the case, then the air inside your home does contain excess CO2.>
In my location it's too cold to open a window.
How else might I fix this?
<If increasing ventilation by opening a nearby window is not an option, then you may need to find another way to introduce outside air into the tank. One simple method is to run the air intake line from your skimmer to the outdoors. If your skimmer does not allow you to do this or if you don't run a skimmer, another method is to run one or more air pumps with their intakes connected to the outdoors. Lastly, another method is to increase your refugium's capacity to grow macro algae by using a stronger light (http://www.melevsreef.com/fuge_bulb.html) or adding another hang-on
refugium. Using a fast growing macro algaes like Chaetomorpha will encourage increased CO2 consumption as they grow.>
Thanks again
Jim
<You're welcome. Cheers, Minh Huynh.>
<<RMF feels compelled to urge you to get/use an in-home Carbon Dioxide monitor... the accumulation of CO2 such that it affects the pH in our aquariums is of concern to our own health>>

Water quality, SW...   12/30/08
Hello All,
<Hello Jim, Minh at your service.>
I am having water problems. My saltwater aquarium has always had a low PH of 7.9.
<First, have you made absolute certain that you do have a low pH issue by verifying with different test kits/pH meters? If you've checked and double checked, then there are several key points to look into:
-The Daily pH Swing: Keep in mind that there is a diurnal change in pH in a marine aquaria that occurs as a result of photosynthesis and respiration.
In short, pH will rise during the day (lights on) and drop at night (lights off). Ensure that you are testing your pH levels throughout the day to find its true minimum and maximum values. The acceptable range for a marine aquaria should be between 7.8 and 8.5.
-Proper Aeration: Chronic low pH could be a result of excess carbon dioxide and inadequate aeration. One can perform a "Aeration Test" to determine if this is the cause. More on this later.>
So I have been trying to bring it up. I use RO/DI water and Instant ocean salt mix. Recently I began using a Kalkwasser drip and Kent super buffer.
My dKH has come up from 7 to 10 but my PH stays at 7.9 and my Calcium stays around 320. I have read that Magnesium could be linked so I purchased a kit and it tested at about 1250.
I stopped using the buffer for fear of overshooting the dKH but have continued the Kalk.
<This is a good strategy as buffer alone is a not a good method for raising pH as you have seen, it raises pH very little but often result in excessive alkalinity.>
The more books and articles I read the more confusing this topic becomes. I would be grateful for some guidance.
<Unfortunately, troubleshooting a low pH issue is one of the more difficult tasks in marine aquarium chemistry. Without getting too lengthy in this particular post, I would like to point you to an excellent article that will undoubtedly clear this issue up for you, "The 'How To' Guide to Reef Aquarium Chemistry: pH"
(http://www.reefkeeping.com/issues/2007-05/rhf/index.php#13). This guide should explain the "Aeration Test" in details along with some solutions for rectifying this problem. Feel free to write back if you continue to have this problem. Good luck.>
Thanks Again
Jim
<You're welcome. Cheers, Minh Huynh>
Thank info: 55 Gal. aquarium set up for 2.5 years, hang on refugium with macro algae, 75 lbs live rock, 3 inch live sand bed, auto top off with RO/DI water, 4x65 watt compact florescent fixture, 500 gph return pump from sump, one power head, temperature 78, SPG 1.025, Ammonia 0, nitrites 0, nitrates 0, 3 small fish, 2 shrimp, sand sifting star, various snails and hermits, urchin.

High Alkalinity 12/10/08
Hello -
My situation seems to be the reverse of most that are posted. I have a 2-3 week old tank. The Ph is ~ 8 to 8.1, so I decided to increase it a bit.
<Should I assume this is a marine tank? If so, when did you measure your pH? pH in a healthy marine tank will fluctuate, 8 to 8.2 over the course of a day.>
When I added Kent Superbuffer, it only increased maybe to 8.2 or so, however, the alkalinity ever since has been around 14 - 15 dKH. I understand that this should come down in time, but so far it hasn't. I believe the figures aren't horrible, and I should strictly not go by them, especially since my 9 small fish in the 150 gallon tank look great.
<You've added 9 fish to a tank that's not even a month old?! Again, is this a marine tank? If so, you stocked it much too quickly.>
I buffered my make up RO/DI water with a tsp. of buffer so each day I top-off 1.5 gallons, I am actually increasing the alkalinity and Ph (or at least not letting it decrease), although they are both pretty much staying the same.
<Marine buffers, such as Kent's will raise your alkalinity. That's what they're designed to do.>
Should I worry more about the alkalinity and then the Ph would come into place? (Or is it the other way around?) Should I not add buffered water so the alkalinity comes down, or should I do a major water change and that would take care of the situation?
<I would stop adding Superbuffer to raise your pH... by itself, it will not do so. In fact, alkalinity is a measure of your water's "buffer capacity."
Products that claim to be buffers will/should raise your alkalinity. Use the buffer to maintain your alkalinity only. If you do everything else correctly, the pH should take care of itself.>
Thanks,
AP
<Best,
Sara M.>

Consistently Low pH � 12/06/08
Hello Crew,
<<Hiya Chris>>
I realize you have been asked many times about low pH (as I have read most of the previous inquires), but as I cannot seem to resolve the issue, I thought I would throw my system setup at you to see what you thought.
<<Okay>>
I have been having a pH range of ~7.85 - ~8.05 (give or take .05 in either direction any given day) for about 6 months now.
<<Not bad really though we generally suggest a range a bit higher than this for more �wiggle room�>>
I have been using strip tests, a pinpoint monitor, as well as a Milwaukee dip tester, all have been calibrated (again and again and again) and read about the same.
<<I see… All the same, I would pitch the strip tests…>>
Tank has been running for almost a year. Specs, current parameters, and inhabitants are as follows:
Tank:
- 150 gallon
- 44 gallon sump (about 20 gallons of water)
- Sump Refugium Section - Chaetomorpha, and a couple other types. 65w light run on reverse lighting from main lights
- Octopus Extreme 200 Skimmer (in sump, works very nicely)
- Mag 18 return pump
- Kalkwasser drip top off (made with RO water - ~5 on the TDS)
- 2 Hydor Koralia 4s (slighted aimed upward to create water surface agitation)
- Tank canopy with an open back and 3 inch fans pushing/pulling air across the surface
- T5 lighting system - 6 48 inch bulbs (3 10K and 3 460nm).
Parameters:
- pH: ~7.85 - 8.05
- Alk: ~10 DKH
- Calcium: ~425
- Magnesium: ~1300
- Phosphates: 0
- Nitrates: 0
- Ammonia: 0
- Nitrite: 0
- Average Temp ~78F degrees
Fish/Inverts
- 1 Naso Elegans Tang
- 1 Yellow Tang
- 1 Tomini Tang
- 1 Regal Tang
- 1 Mystery Wrasse
- 1 Mandarin
- 1 Red Hawk
- 2 Percula Clowns
- 2 Banggai Cardinals
- 2 Bartlett's Anthias
- 3 Lyretail Anthias
- 7 Blue/Green Chromis
- 1 Cleaner Shrimp
- 1 Elegant Star
- 1 Sand Sifter Star
- 1 Brittle Star
- Various Snails (about 10)
- Various Crabs (about 15)
Corals
- About a dozen SPS frags or small colonies (Acropora, Montipora, Stylophora)
- About a dozen LPS pieces (torch, xenia, open brain, bubble, etc)
- Various Zoanthids
<<This is a lot of biomass for this tank; some might even say it is overstocked. This large biomass may well be a large portion of your pH issue>>
I do weekly water changes of ~10-15 percent. Water change water has a pH of ~8.2. The Kalkwasser top-off drip has a pH of ~14. Water changes and Kalkwasser drip both use RO water that I produce using my RO unit (pH of ~7.0, but not used in main tank by itself, meaning salt or Kalk is always added to raise pH).
<<Very good>>
I initially was using Instant Ocean salt for water changes, but as my SPS started to increase I switched to Red Sea Coral Pro salt, this is when I believe I started to see the pH change and is the only thing that recently changed (other than inhabitants) around that time-frame.
<<Then this may be a clue>>
However I cannot see how this salt could be the cause of the problem, I have heard many others using this salt with nothing like this as the contributor.
<<All the same, trying a different salt brand is an easy test. I am not and have never been a big fan of Red Sea's salt mix for reasons of inconsistency between batches. I had used Instant Ocean fairly consistently (with the occasional foray to checkout a new mix) for more than three decades until recent changes in the company and my own bad experiences with the mix caused me to abandon that once very consistent brand. If cost is not a consideration then Tropic Marin is the way to go… Else I would suggest you opt for Seachem's quality salt mix>>
Prior to the salt brand switch I had a pH ~8.2-8.4.
<<This is very telling… Don't you think?>>
I have read all the forums on dissolved CO2 and gas exchange, but with the Koralias and Octopus Skimmer, I figure I am getting plenty of exchange.
<<Maybe so>>
I did do a small test with about 1 gallon of water and an air line and let it run for about 12 hours, and yes, the pH did rise to a more respectable number.
<<Hmm…>>
But I don't see how that could be the case in my main tank, like I said with the Koralias and Skimmer I figure I have enough air and water movement (would have to add a considerably large air pump to make more of a difference) .
<<The evidence before you would seem to suggest that �something� is up re the CO2 levels in your tank. The problem may not be the lack of circulation, but more an issue with CO2 accumulation within the house itself>>
I have also read about the sealed up house deal and by opening a window can help.
<<Indeed though not always a practical solution>>
However, the tank is in a very large room with plenty of air movement, so not sure this could be the source (even if it was, not sure I can leave a window open 24/7).
<<The size of the room is not a factor re the trapped/accumulated CO2. And I agree, leaving a window open is not the best answer>>
Could my T5 lighting configuration be a factor?
<<Not the lighting so much as maybe the hood restricting air movement/gas exchange>>
I think I have enough wattage, 6 48" bulbs over-driven by Icecap ballasts should be putting out 85 watts per bulb. Could the spectrum I am using be a factor, the 3 10K and 3 460nm?
<<I doubt this is the root of your issue… But still, I would replace one of the actinic bulbs with another 10K bulb just to provide more �useful� light spectrum to your photosynthetic organisms>>
I realize pH is affected by the lights,
<<Indirectly yes in driving photosynthesis>>
does the spectrum impact it as well,
<<Indeed in its ability to drive photosynthesis>>
meaning do I need more 10K vs. 460nm?
<<In my opinion, yes>>
Not sure what else to try here.
<<A different salt mix…>>
I thought for sure the Kalkwasser drip would resolve this.
<<Is not a panacea>>
I have been dripping for about a month, and things started to look like it was improving, but it settled back in the usual low range.
<<This does sound like an issue with accumulated CO2. And it may resolve itself with the advent of warmer weather/better air circulation in and out of the house>>
It is difficult to keep a steady drip rate through the gravity method (clogs and all),
<<Yes, a real pain to administer this way... I use and much prefer a Kalkwasser reactor for such dosing>>
but it seems to be helping somewhat.
<<It will to some extent. But if there is an excess of CO2 within your system the Kalkwasser will be quickly precipitated out as mostly insoluble calcium carbonate>>
I would guess that I am dripping ~1-1.25 gallons of Kalkwasser per day.
<<I generally suggest folks dose Kalkwasser as a direct replacement for the daily evaporation of their system>>
My LFS told me that 7.8 - 8.0 is acceptable as long as Alkalinity is up (which it is).
<<Indeed… Just not much room for error>>
I am just not happy being at the bottom of the acceptable range. Fish/Corals seem happy (but I am no expert, coral isn't exactly growing super fast, but all looks healthy). I realize I have a large fish community and maybe the bio-load they cause could be a factor.
<<To some extent, yes, this is what I am thinking as well>>
I feed ~1.5 cubes of frozen (rotate Mysis, Brine, Zooplankton, Reef Formula) daily, as well as a ~3x3 inch sheet of Nori about 3-4 times a week. I also add a couple of tablespoons of DTs Phytoplankton once a week.
<<I am a firm believer in feeding one's fishes, corals, system et al, very well>>
Sorry for the long winded message, but I thought I should give as much info as possible.
<<No worries>>
Thanks in advance for any assistance you can provide.
-Chris
<<Well Chris, all-in-all I see no reason to be overly worried at the moment. Yes, I think you should see what you can do to raise the overall pH of the system, but as long as your current reading remains stable your livestock will likely be fine. You can try reducing the bio-load and changing salt mixes which may show some improvement… But just how much will depend on how high the accumulated CO2 levels are in the house/room where this tank resides as I believe this too is a contributing factor here and one not always easily addressed. A Google search re may yield some ideas worth applying. Regards, EricR>>

Re: Consistently Low pH  12/07/08
Hello Crew,
<<Hey Chris>>
Thanks so much for the input, it was extremely helpful.
<<Ah, good>>
I think I will try the following things to improve the pH (one at a time to try to isolate the cause). But before I try them, I have a few follow-up questions if you don't mind before I proceed with action.
<<Okay>>
1) Change in salt brand (Cost may become an issue, so what's the deal with Instant Ocean?
<<Can't say specifically… I heard there were some changes made at the company (management), and over the past year or so I have heard several accounts from others re consistency issues with the salt, along with my own similar findings re. The icing on the cake for me was when I received multiple shipments (about 6 buckets en toto) of the 160g buckets that came as SOLID BLOCKS of salt mix>>
2) Not recommended?).
<<You'll have to judge for yourself, but for me, I've moved on to the excellent line from Seachem for my salt mix needs>>
Also, would sudden change is salt have any ill effects on my inhabitants?
<<Not in my experience (assuming a move to a quality mix), and certainly not in the proportions associated with routine water changes>>
3) Exchange one of my 460nm bulbs with another 10K.
4) Would like to try something with regards to accumulated CO2 but not sure of a couple of things:
a) What are the contributors to CO2 in the system? Is it just the air in the room that is sucked into the system via skimmer, etc?
<<Indeed… The accumulated CO2 in the room is what is available to the system>>
Are there more contributors?
<<Sometimes… Such as inadequate water circulation or an improperly tuned Calcium reactor. There are likely some other thoughts re in the FAQs on the topic>>
b) What test(s) can I perform to verify excess CO2 (other than the one I already did with a small amount of water being aerated)?
<<You can try a test kit like this one (http://www.aquaticeco.com/subcategories/519/Test-Kits-by-LaMotte-Carbon-Dioxide/), but aerating a small amount of water outdoors like you did is the best way to determine the effects on your pH, in my opinion>>
c) What options do I have to resolve excess CO2?
<<You must first determine the cause/source>>
By the way, I live in Southern California, so the weather (or lack there of) is pretty consistently beautiful ;-) if that helps with regards to CO2 issues.
<<Mmm, I see; if the house is newer/well sealed you can still have problems with accumulated CO2. If this is the issue, then improving air-exchange within the home will help. But just how to go about this depends on you, your resources, and how committed you are to making this improvement solely for the sake of your reef system. There are whole-house air exchange systems available, but unless you are an accomplished DIY'er this will require a qualified contractor to install. And either way, these are not a cheap alternative. Try the easier/less expensive options first. Maybe such measure as the exchanger will not be necessary… Or maybe some purposeful searching on your part on the NET will yield another alternative>>
Side question on feeding: Does the amount of food being fed to the fish contribute to the bio-load within the tank?
<<Certainly>>
I ask because I never could figure how much food to feed.
<<No easy or pat answer here>>
The only advice I ever got was the old "feed as much as they can eat in about 2-3 minutes".
<<Mmm, I see… But do your fishes appear healthy? Robust? Exhibit strong coloration?>>
The 1.5 cubes I feed each day is gobbled up in about 30 seconds (with the exception of when zooplankton is added as it takes them a bit longer to get it all).
<<Considering your livestock load, I do think this is inadequate>>
Basically, can I safely double the amount of feeding without consequence?
<<Can't say there won't be consequences (they may even be good ones!), but I would at least double this amount of frozen cubes (be sure to provide some variety) and add some New Life Spectrum pellets as well… And feed all TWICE a day…>>
If I wish to fatten everyone up a bit. Remember Nitrates are at 0 (if that means anything). Not really sure what all contributes to the bio-load.
<<Everything organic… But do also consider, well fed fishes; besides just looking better, will be more resistant to illness and are often less aggressive towards tankmates>>
Note: With regards to using a Kalkwasser reactor as opposed to the gravity drip. Besides being a bit on the pricey side, canisters seem to be on the small side and would have to be refilled quite often when being used as evaporation replacement. I currently use a 20 gallon container with a small Mag pump for circulation. Only needs to be filled once every 10ish days. Maybe the use of a dosing pump on my current system would work better than a gravity drip.
<<Probably so>>
Also, I thought Kalkwasser was a panacea (ha ha, just kidding).
<<Many do [grin]>>
Once again, thanks in advance.
-Chris
<<Happy to assist. EricR>>

Water change issue/pH, FOWLR spg, Crypt... 10/23/08
Hello,
<Hi>
I've been having an issue that I just started to realize recently. I have been conducting water changes, and finding that the next day my pH is rather low. Around 6.5.
<In the tank? Does it stay here consistently?>
However when I test my water prior to putting it into the tank the pH is perfect. I believe this is due to the oxygen being generated by the pump mixing the salt and everything else in the tub prior to me pumping it into the tank. My tank is a 120 FOWLR. I usually conduct 30-50% water changes every 2-3weeks. So basically that's one issue, is how do you think i can go about balancing out my PH more efficiently right around water changes.
<How long are you mixing your water for before adding it to your tank, make sure you allow 24 hours for everything to mix correctly and stabilize. Also do you buffer your water change water prior to adding the salt? See here for more http://www.wetwebmedia.com/marphalk.htm >
What is the ideal salinity for a FOWLR? I do have live rock, and nice purple coral growing. I keep it usually around 1.019-.21
<Too low, close as possible to natural levels, 1.026, the creatures in your tank have spend thousands of generations adapting to this fairly stable parameter.>
What do you guys think about the AquaC Urchin Pro in sump skimmers?
<Love Aqua-C.>
And for a future reference, what's a good way to treat ich without medication?
<The only way I know of is using the tank swap method, where you switch the fish between 2 bare bottom tanks, completely cleaning and drying the tank not in use.>
Or perhaps help prevent it, or stop it from getting worse during beginning stages.
<Quarantine, Quarantine, Quarantine, and have I mentioned Quarantine?>
I've been told to soak food in garlic extract...
<Not useful for ich treatment, or much of anything really, does seem to stimulate a fish's appetite a bit, but so do many other products that also add value to your fish's food. A nice article from Steven Pro http://www.reefkeeping.com/issues/2003-08/sp/index.php >
Thanks,
Sam
<Welcome>
<Chris>

Re: Water change issue, Alk., storage   10/23/08
I usually poor some dechlorinator, then start adding water. Add salt and then when 30 gallon bucket is like 3/4 full with fresh water I add ph Seachem buffer. (Which says safely doesn't go above 8.3 mind u) I let this all mix for about 20 min then add to tank.
<This pH problem you are experiencing is exactly why it is recommended to wait 24 hours before adding to your tank, parameters can swing wildly in newly mixed water.>
The ph is usually low right like 12hours after water change. However in my 30gallon tub it reads 8.3 because of all the oxidation I suppose. Anyhow ye, so I decided to add some buffer this time around and 12hrs later ph was high!
So I guess ill just add a little smaller dosage of ph buffer then I did last time...
Sam
<See here for more on alkalinity http://www.wetwebmedia.com/alkalinity.htm .>
<Chris>

pH is too high!! Reading too little   10/11/08
Hello there,
<Yves>
It seems like everybody with a PH problem is in regard to keeping their PH level high enough, for me it’s the opposite… it remains between 8.45 and 8.56 over a 24hrs period.
I hope you can help me because my LFS guy never saw a similar problem in the last 15 years he’s been in the business.
<Let's see>
I have a 125 Gal display thank, a 90 gal sump, equipped with a skimmer (Coralife Super Skimmer 125) and a 30 gal refugium with 2 inches of sand.
<The source of this sand? It's make-up?>
It’s a fish only tank with around 100pds of live rock.
<And this>
All of that is inhabited by the following;
1 Angel Bi-color (Centropyge bicolour)
1 Tang Hippo (Paracanthurus hepatus),
1 Yellow Tang (Zebrasoma flavescens),
1 Lawnmower blenny (Salarias fasciatus),
2 Percula clownfish (Amphiprion ocellaris)
5 Cardinal Pajama (Sphaeramia nematopterus),
50 blue hermit crabs (Cilibarius tricolour),
I tried a Black Brittle star ( Ophiocoma sp) and it started losing it’s legs then it died. I also tried 2 urchins, but after 1 week, they started loosing their spines and died. I acclimated those critters for a full day in both case.
<Mmm, possibly clues>
I also seem to be unable to control the algae growth, My LFS guy told me it’s because I have great water & lighting condition
<?>
and he’s the one who recommended adding the blenny and the Yellow tang to help in this regard.
My Nitrate level is between 0 & 1
My Ammonia is at 0.1
My Phosphate is at 0.01
My calcium level is 300PPM
<Ahh... a factor... and am wondering what re your Mg?>
The temperature is at 81ºC, +/- 1ºC
Salinity is at 1.022,
<Too low... another factor... I'd keep near natural seawater strength... 1.025-6>
very stable with an auto top off for evaporation
The feeding is automatic, 4 times a day in small quantity
I have 3 metal haloids light of 250 watts each, but only use 2 at a time because then I can’t keep the temperature in check, even with my home made chillers and 1 fan over the display tank.
So my questions are the following;
Are those PH level too high?
<Mmm, could be a few "stock" reasons... but your biomineral balance (that can/most often does influence pH) is out of whack... you need more calcium, likely magnesium (but needs testing)... More "salt/s" period, and...>
Is the 0.11 PH swing per day too big?
<Mmm, not really. Can be yet another source of "stress", but not terrible of/by itself>
Should I do something about it and if so what?
<See above... Read, determine why your biomineral level/s are off, fix them... see if this of/by itself remedies (lowers, stabilizes) your pH... If not, some supplementation may be of use>
Is it possible with those levels of PH to get Brittle stars & urchins?
<Mmm, not the pH, but yes... the... Please read here: http://wetwebmedia.com/calcalkmar.htm
and the linked files above. You'd do well to understand the basics of what is going on here chemically, physically... Some terms are a bit confusing, but with a few minutes study...>
Was the blenny and Yellow tang a good idea, and should I get additional ones(s) in order to better control algae?
<... you should read... re the most common sources, remedies: http://wetwebmedia.com/algaeasfriend.htm
and the linked files above till you understand your options here>
Needles to say my wife is not pleased with the aspect of the tank now, and I need to keep her happy if I want to keep my tank!
All your ideas and suggestions are very welcome.
Yves Leduc
Kingston, Ontrario
<Read for now... then we'll chat further. Bob Fenner>

Help! PH in tank fell to 6.5 overnight!!   9/16/08
Yikes!! Last night I did some adjusting on my Calcium reactor.
<... too much acid>
For a while now I've been seeing my Alk way too high at 13+ so I decided to turn it off, let the Alk come down slowly, then turn it back on once things normalized which I did. I tested my levels again and found Alk at 10.5-11, CA at 420, and Mg at 1250. I turned it back on last night and adjusted for a slightly lower than normal rate of CO2 (about 15 BPM). When I came in this morning I found my CO2 blasting away through the bubble counter and my tank PH at 6.5!!! I immediately panicked and turned the CO2 all the way off. I then opened up the lid to my tank, opened all the windows, turned the fan on my sump on, and then mixed up some fresh RO water and some baking soda in an attempt to get it back up.
<Needs to be done more slowly...>
I mixed the mix up to about 8.3 PH and added about a half of a regular sized pitcher to the sump. I have a 150 gal tank with a 30-40g sump. After about a 3 hours I looked at
my PH monitor again and it is now showing 7.78. Did I raise this too fast?
<You'll see>
What would have been a better way of doing this?
<Mmm, the same, but slower>
Thanks for all your help!!
-JP
<Bob Fenner>

ph crash -09/01/08
hello all,
I am panicking a bit, so I will get right to the problem. 2 nights ago, I discovered a few of my fish in my reef tank had ich. so, yesterday, I got a new tank, placed water from the original tank in it, plus 25% new water (stored with matching ph, temp and salinity). I also added a product called SuperBac Aquarium which was supposed to help adjust the cycle in the new tank. After a few hours in the tank, I medicated with the recommended dosage of ich-x. They seemed fine for hours, then, I noticed one of my tangs breathing very heavy, so i did a 20% water change, turned out the lights and held my breath. This morning, he is dead, and my other fish are breathing very heavy now... I tested my water, and my ph is 7.6! I can only assume that my ph crashed. So I added a very small amount of buffer, and have been watching and waiting. I am scared to do another water change as my water stored has a ph of 8.4. What is my best course of action? thank you.
<It sounds like you might have a problem with circulation/aeration. Do you have lids on the tanks?
Best,
Sara M.>

Re: ph crash -09/01/08
Yes, I am also running 2 hang on filters, so water is moving...
<Hmm, lids are not usually a smart idea for marine tanks (they inhibit gas exchange). Also, hang on filters will not provide the kind of water flow you need.>
Is this perhaps not enough? The fish are still swimming and eating, but are still breathing heavy.
<Not good... please do some more reading:
http://www.wetwebmedia.com/marsetupindex2.htm>
I was under the impression that changing the water with a higher ph would be too sudden and stressful. When would it be safe to add new water? And how much? My stored water has a ph of 8.4 and spec grav of 1.025...
<If I were you, before I'd do another water change, I'd first take the lids off the tanks. I'd also add some powerheads for water circulation. Let me/us know if that doesn't greatly improve things all around.
Best,
Sara M.>

Re: ph crash -09/01/08
Ok, I opened the lid and put my smallest powerhead from my main tank in there. When should I do another water change? Will the ph come back up on its own, or does this happen with water changes?
<If lack of gas exchange is the source of your pH woes (as I suspect it is), you should see your pH start to rise within the next few hours or so (though, if it's night where you are, you might not see this till the morning). The reason lack of gas exchange lowers pH is because CO2 builds up and turns to carbonic acid (acids lower pH). Removing the lids and increasing circulation allows more CO2 to be released into the air, thus decreasing carbonic acid and raising pH (this should happen without a water change). However, again, in aquariums pH is "naturally" lower at night, thus you should wait till morning/daytime to see if your pH is rising. Since you just did two water changes, I'd wait a few days before doing another one.
Best,
Sara M.>

Re: ph crash -09/01/08
thank you Sara!
De nada... hope it works! -Sara M.

Yellow Tang banging against glass, env.-chemically burned, pH 8.8     8/16/08
Hello Crew,
<Cielo>
I have a 5 inch yellow tang that I picked out on Mother's day 08 from our LFS.
Up until now all my fishes have been healthy. A little background on my tank: I have a 55 gallon tank
<Not really sufficient space...>
with 60lbs of live sand and 30lbs of live rock, a protein skimmer, and a whisper filter.
Three days ago I made a 20 gallon water change. 2 Mornings after that change I woke up to a noise and found that it was my yellow tang banging himself against the light hood of the tank, almost like he wanted to get out.
<Mmmm>
Then he began darting against the glass and hitting himself against it. I noticed that he had red or pink on the inside of his lips and also across his body.
The next day he stopped eating. I checked my levels and they read: Ammonia 0, Nitrites 0, Nitrates 0, but my PH was 8.8
<Yeeikes! Caustic>
so I went to the LFS and purchased a buffer.
I was told I should quarantine
<?>
him so that I wouldn't need to medicate the whole tank as the other fish are fine. The medication I purchased is the Myracid Two.
<... Maracyn... Minocycline... of no use here>
I only had a 5 gallon tank
<Much too small...>
available to make a QT out of, and so that is where I placed my Tang. Right now he's on his side at the bottom of the tank, he is hardly breathing.
<...>
At least in the display tank he was still swimming around. Should I place him back in the display tank? I need your advice.
~L from PA
<YES, now! Bob Fenner>

High pH... like the "news"... commentary, no data    7/25/08
Dear WWM,
<Ray>
I have a problem with high pH level in my nano reef. The tank is 2 month old Eclipse 12 with 96 Watt retro. It's equipped with stock filtration and Koralia nano. Normal water parameter. Livestock include 2 false percula, 1 firefish, bubble coral, zoanthids, colt coral, mushroom, and a white spaghetti. At first I had about 10 lbs of live aragonite sand then I added 20 more lbs of sand about two weeks ago. This was when the problem of high pH started.
<... how high is high?>
From researching, I believe the cause of this problem is due to the lack of biofilm on the substrate. Is this correct?
<An influence likely>
I am dosing the tank with vinegar to bring down
<I would not do this. Very likely unnecessary... pH should drift down in time... Not likely "too high" currently>
the pH but it keeps going back up. How should I approach this problem?
Thank you very much for your help,
Ray
<... What's missing Ray? Real info... Please read here: http://wetwebmedia.com/marine/maintenance/index.htm
scroll down... Read re pH AND alkalinity. Bob Fenner>

PH issues, SW, reading...    7/24/08
Hello,
<Howsit?>
I always turn to your website for expert advice and guidance. I have a 90G Reef tank. Added a new KNOP Calcium Reactor few weeks ago. Since then the PH has been slowly dropping.
<Mmm... a setting, set-up/operation or media choice issue, perhaps both>
PH range 7.88 - 8.04.
Alkalinity - 9.2
Calcium - 400
What is the best way to raise PH without affecting Alkalinity?
<... posted... and I wouldn't actually "do" this... id est, your pH is fine as stated, measured>
Would Baking Soda be a better choice?.
<No... if anything, you could do some Kalk addition...>
Thanks in advance.
Regards,
Suresh
<... read: http://wetwebmedia.com/marine/index.htm
Maintenance > pH, Alkalinity >
Bob Fenner>

Severe pH fluctuation - 7/7/08
First off, let me thank you all for maintaining such an excellent, informative site. I do all my research with Wet Web Media.
<Thanks for your kindness! Bob certainly has built an incredible thing here!><<Ahh, not I alone. RMF>>
This time though, I cannot seem to find a good answer to my problem.
I have a 130 gallon half cylinder setup for about 6 months now. There is about 100 pounds of live rock. A 3 inch live sand bed. I have a variety of SPS and LPS coral, that are all pretty well spaced. My fish population is kinda small, with a coral beauty angel, 2 gobies, a yellow tang, 2 chromis, a clown, and a 6 line.
I have a chiller that keeps the aquarium within 1 degree of 80f. I run 2 250 MH's over this tank around 8 hours a day, supplemented with t5 actinics that run for 12 hours. I run a protein skimmer and carbon in the sump. I keep salinity at about 1.05
<1.025? 1.05 would be very, very high...>
and Nitrates, Nitrites, and Ammonia are all undetectable with my test kit. The alkalinity is staying around 8dKh. I change about 20% of the water every 2 -3 weeks. The problem is that I have started to notice my candy cane corals have lost much of their color in the last week or so. I started checking the ph more often through out the day and found that while it stays a healthy 8.3 during the day, in the morning I have found it to be consistently low, in the 7.8 area. I am thinking that this is really impacting the health of my corals.
<I'm sure it is>
Should I try to up the alkalinity a bit? I realize that 8 is on the low side of the scale, and I have read several articles on your site regarding ph swings at night and their causes, but most people seem to indicate such swings are much smaller than what I am seeing. What else can I do to help stabilize the PH? Perhaps a refugium on a reverse lighting schedule would help considerably...What would you suggest for a good size refugium on 130 gallons? And what should I be keeping in there? Caulerpa with a DSB?
Any other suggestions? I am really worried about the bleaching on my candy corals. Which by the way, have always resided about 15 inches under the water surface.
<I would start with more frequent, slightly smaller water changes- 10% a week or so will increase the monthly water changed, and at a rate that will maintain a sort of equilibrium. This alone may help with the problem by replacing various buffering agents and removing acidic wastes. A refugium on reverse lighting would also help- I would recommend Chaetomorpha over Caulerpa, though. You can check our FAQs and articles for information re sizing and setup for these. My one other guess: Are you supplementing calcium hydroxide on this tank through the day? If you are, start doing it at night. If you aren't, consider using it to replenish your calcium by dripping/dosing overnight, as this will raise the pH over the dosing period.>
Please help,
<Hope I have>
Jonathan
<Benjamin>

My pH has me baffled 6/16/08
Hello,
And thank you for the numerous hours of reading and education you have provided for this hobby. I have found many answers to questions and yet this one has continued to elude me.
Set Up
29 Gallon BioCube 26-28 lbs. of beautiful Bali LR (filled with a plethora of amazing hitchhikers) and 20lbs Aragonite live sand. Up for just over 2 months.
Oceanic Skimmer in chamber 1, Slowly decreasing number of bio balls in chamber 2, soon to be none. (Considering turning the wet/dry section into a cheery little Chaeto refug. buffet for a pod colony.
>Oooh, good idea<
Would love any suggestions on that.)
<Add some small pieces of live rock too, a DSB of fine oolitic material if it'll fit>
I use RO/DI water for mixing and top off with Tropic-Marin for sea salt. (No salt used in top off water.)
Nitrites, Nitrates and Ammonia all read 0. Phos. 0, Spec. Gravity 1.0235
<I'd raise this a bit... 1.025-1.026>
Alk. 9dkh Temp. 80 degrees
And my evil Ph. 7.8.
<Mmmm>
My LFS told me that their tanks run at the same PH, and that it shouldn't be a problem with my livestock.
<Likely not, but...>
Thus I ended up adding a scarlet hermit and a Nassarius snail. Everything seems to be thriving including the numerous hitchhiking inverts. but the PH still kind of concerns me. I've been told its not too big of a deal, but do want to move up to a reef tank eventually and figure the best time to learn is now so I'm not sacrificing corals to my own naivety in the future. Then again the other LFS told me that my PH is way too low and I should never have added my crab and snail. Pretty much the same kind of contradictions I've found online.
<Ah, yes>
I've followed just about every opinion on how to pinpoint the cause of the low PH to almost no avail. Then I got curious, what is my mixed saltwater reading at?
<Mmmm, well...?>
I know I should have been doing this from the get go, but my LFS had assured me that by reaching the proper salinity with my sea salt that all its chemicals will naturally balance my parameters cause that's what it is made to do.
<A good presumption here>
And sure enough, after testing my premix I discover that though ALK is fine my PH is still reading 7.8 before it even reaches the tank. I'm at a loss for what to do. I aerate the water in my mixing bucket for probably about 48 hours before using, and the ph reads the same both before and after.
<I'd buffer your RO summarily... before mixing the salt>
I've looked for answers to fixing PH when ALK is fine and have found very little in the form of a solution. I bought a container of SeaChem ReefBuffer, since it states that it will gradually raise PH and stabilize it at 8.3 but then read more when I got it home and saw that you should use this product when PH is not a problem. (This has put my logic to the test, since I question why would you use something to raise PH if PH wasn't the problem in your tank.)
<Is a good product, mix of compounds... should be of use here>
Needless to say I have avoided doing anything just yet and pray that someone can help me please. Is there a way to increase the Ph without throwing my ALK out of whack, or do I just listen to my LFS and deal with it?
<I would use a minimum of the SeaChem product in your new water change outs... this, coupled with your proposed and ongoing changes with your wet dry sump (the removal of plastic media, the instigation of the Chaetomorpha culture, addn. of substrate of calcareous nature) will almost assuredly rectify all here>
I would really like to find some kind of solution as I do not wish to add anything more until I figure this out. At least if something horrible happens right now I'm out a 2$ Hermit and a 5$ snail.
Any help would be appreciated.
Thanks ahead of time,
Brandon
<Thank you for sharing, writing so well/carefully. I do consider that you are well on your way. Cheers! Bob Fenner>

Need Help To Get To 8.3 (Trouble Maintaining pH) – 04/01/08
WetWebMedia,
<<Rachel>>
I have been working very hard to get my pH to 8.3. Right now it still only tops out at 8.1 during the day.
<<Not all that bad, really>>
Here are my specs:
55 gallon reef
calcium 380ppm
magnesium 1200
pH 7.8 morning 8.1 late day.
alkalinity 4.0meg/l kH value of 8
Nitrate / Nitrite / ammonia not detectable.
I tried to use Seachem Reef Buffer (the one that raises pH to 8.3) and it didn’t move the pH.
<<Hmm..perhaps a larger dose is needed>>
I added 1 tsp. which should have raised the pH by .1 and I retested my pH the following morning. I was expecting to see 7.9 instead of my 7.8 ... but I still had a pH close to 7.8.
<<Dosage can/will vary from system to system…even of the same size. I would try a larger dose of the buffer; say two-teaspoons, while keeping an eye on both Alkalinity and pH. If that doesn’t help, you can keep increasing the dosage (by a quarter-teaspoon) until your Alkalinity starts to rise…just be sure to not let the Alkalinity get too high (follow the directions on the container) else you run the risk of a precipitation event>>
My new salt water mixes to 8.2 pH and has an alkalinity of 3.5 meg/l and when I add it to the tank it will raise the pH a little bit; however, it drops right back down after a day or two.
<<Mmm, sounds like maybe the system is overstocked, or maybe has an accumulation of detritus that is driving down pH>>
I am really running out of ideas.
<<The ionic balance between Calcium, Magnesium, Alkalinity looks pretty good so I’m guessing you have kept up with small water changes. But, have you tried a LARGE water change yet? If you try a larger water change (40%-50%) and the pH holds for a bit longer than before, then I would suspect something in the system driving down the pH (e.g. - accumulated organics)>>
Right now my tank is around 1.5 years old. For the first year the pH was perfect and it has slowly been dropping.
<<Not atypical…especially in smaller/smallish systems like yours. It is likely your rock/substrate has lost much of its buffering capacity and just can’t keep up. Swapping out/adding some new rock should help if so>>
I have one last ditch effort that I would like to try but I wanted to run it by you guys first. I am going to siphon out all of the sand and give it a good cleaning in some freshly made salt water and put it back in the tank. Maybe if I get out all of the organics that have been building up in the water I can raise the pH again.
<<If the substrate is course (larger than “sugar-fine”), and water flow has been less than optimum, this may well be the problem and cleaning it will be of benefit. If your substrate is shallow (.75” or less), pulling it out to clean it probably won’t pose any problem other than clouding the water. Still, do add some supplementary chemical filtration while doing this…something like a canister filter with carbon. If the substrate is deep, then I suggest either trying to “vacuum” in place, or remove it in “thirds” for cleaning. But while we’re on the topic of “removal,” why not just “replace” the substrate with new of an Aragonite composition? The new substrate can be easily “seeded” from your old…and the increased buffer will certainly help your problem>>
Should I read something on my test kits if this was the case?
<<Nope…other than the pH stabilizing (hopefully). But do watch for increased levels in the Nitrogen cycle due to disturbance of microbes/removal of biological filtration capacity…and be ready to increase water changes/supplement filtration to cope until all “ramps up” again>>
Right now the hair algae is starting to outcompete the hard purple algae and I would really like to get my tank back on track.
<<Ah…and the nuisance algae is likely why you don’t register any Nitrate…should accumulated organic matter be the issue here. And I just had another thought…how “open” is this system and how much water flow/movement is present? Could accumulated CO2 be your problem? You can test this by placing a sample in a container with a heater (to match the temp of the display tank) and an airstone and let it run (outside) for a couple hours and see if the pH rises. And if you haven’t yet, have a look at this article on pH and Alkalinity…as well as a peruse among the associated links: http://www.wetwebmedia.com/marphalk.htm >>
Rachel
<<Regards, EricR>>

Falling pH and Alkalinity in an Older Reef System – 03/26/08
Hello Crew,
<<Greetings, Steve>>
I've spent many an hour on your site getting information and use it often.
<<Hey…me too!>>
I have a 180 gal reef, 5 yrs old, 4 fish all been around 2+ years everything very healthy.
<<Good to know>>
My tank is heavily stocked with corals, LPS, SPS and softies, I do major pruning each month.
<<Cool>>
I have a euro <<Euro-Reef?>> skimmer and I run a calcium reactor, I recently purchased a controller and the software to monitor my tank.
<<Though not a “necessity,” electronic controllers/testing devices sure do simplify monitoring of our systems…and usually with greater accuracy over the more common (conventional?) methods>>
I was running my calcium reactor around 20 hrs a day keeping 8-10 dKH; adjusting the time as needed to maintain. I tested my pH with a color test kit and thought all was well. The first surprise I got with the new controller was the pH in my tank was running 8.05 in the evening and 7.6 by early am.
<<Mmm…quite a wide swing>>
With the software you can see it follow the lighting cycle almost to the minute and continue to drop during the night and start back up at 10am when the first lights come on.
<<Hee-hee! Aren’t “toys” great!>>
I checked the probes and calibration (even bought a second one) and it appears to be right.
<<Ah, good…always best to “test the tester” before making any drastic changes>>
I haven't done anything yet other than tried the Kalk slurry and buffer my top off water. The Kalk didn't do much, it just settled back down to the same reading.
<<Mmm, yes…is a temporary/short-lived/daily solution. It “will” help…perhaps a larger dose for your “heavily stocked” system? Though best not to make increases of more than 2-tenths on the pH scale at a time>>
I have a fully automated top-off and RO/DI system and really don't want to start having to add daily or weekly supplements.
<<Understood… I’m not a fan of this and try to automate all I can, myself>
I took a sample this AM outside and ran an air pump in the water it went from 7.65 to 7.85 in about 2 hrs.
<<Hmm…>>
I understand about excess Co2 from your site. I have a second chamber on order for my calcium reactor as a first step.
<<Very good>>
My question is about aeration, if it works with the sample can I not do it to the tank to solve this, I've read not to aerate the sump, could you explain why?
<<Salt creep, mate… The spray from the bubbles as they burst at the water’s surface make a horrible mess of things>>
My tank is next to a window so I could pump in fresh air, could I run it in the tank at night after the lights go off and if so how would you suggest, air stone down towards the bottom?
<<Just pumping some fresh air in to the cabinet where the sump resides may help a bit…but rather than using an airstone, I would add a powerhead to move the water about (maybe even agitate the surface slightly) to facilitate better gas exchange. You can do this in both the display and the sump. Also, if you have covers on the tank, removing them will also improve gas exchange>>
My only concern in addressing this at all is my ORP and Ozone. I had bought an Ozone generator but did not hook it up after reading about being able to monitor it. My controller came with an ORP probe so I added the ozone. At first the reading was 290-300. I slowly adjusted it up with the ozone over a 2 week period and the controller is set to maintain 350-385. After another week the ORP started to follow the pH swing.
<<Yes>>
As the pH falls the ORP rises, now it stays at 400 at the pH low point and only falls to 380 at the pH high point so now the ozone does not come on at all.
<<But these ORP readings are quite good…why worry that the Ozone generator is not running? It will be there when/if needed>>
When I tried the Kalk and raised the pH in the evening to 8.2 the ORP immediately fell back to 350.
The only adjustment I've made was the time on the calcium reactor, I thought that might help, it did not, my Alk just fell and I have to add a buffer to get it back up to 8 dKH.
<<Mmm, best to keep the Calcium reactor running to maintain bio-mineral content. The second chamber you have coming will probably help some as it will allow an increase of the affluent pH. Adding a small vegetable refugium to receive this affluent, rather than having it run directly to the sump, may also help some. You also stated the system is 5yrs old…likely the buffering capacity of the live rock is exhausted. Exchanging some rock and/or Aragonite sand may also help. Look also to your salt mix…perhaps a change is needed. And do start/continue to buffer makeup water. I find on “automated” systems that this is often easily and effectively achieved with the use of a Kalkwasser reactor plumbed in-line to the sump. You can also simply place a portion/bag of calcareous material (crushed coral/live rock/Aragonite sand) in the holding tank. You didn’t mention water changes…perhaps these need to be increased to keep up with the demands on the tank. I doubt any “one” solution is the answer here…likely it will take a combination of these to achieve your desired result>>
Thanks,
Steve
<<Hope this helps. EricR>>

Sand Bed, pH, and More 3/13/08
Hi Crew,
<Hello>
I have a few questions. I have had a 46 bow front reef going for about 5 yrs. now. I have about 50+ lbs of live rock and my substrate is 4 in. of crushed coral and live sand mixed. LFS told us to do this when we went from fish only to reef (6 months later). I would like to go with one or the other.
<Sand>
There is a lot of detritus on the live rock. Which critters are best at cleaning that up and are reef safe?
<You mostly, get more circulation to keep it suspended where the skimmer can pull it out.>
Another question, I've been taking a water sample to my LFS every 2 weeks everything tests fine except my calcium (380) and ph (7.8) I've been adding ph buffer and calcium daily and doing 10 % water changes every 2 weeks. Any suggestions on increasing these.
<I would do the water changes weekly, and make sure you buffer you top-off and water change water before adding it to your tank.>
I have a Hagen test kit that I can't stand. Cal and ph are hard to read, that's why I take my sample to the LFS.
<Ok, have you tried other brands? You can even get an electronic pH tester fairly cheaply.>
I would like to add a star fish any recommendations?
<A Serpent Star would probably be ok.>
My tank consists of: A brand new Remora protein skimmer with MaxiJet 1200, and 2 Hydor 2 pumps for water movement.
<I have 5 smallish powerheads in my 46, I think more water movement will help here.>
I can't think of my lighting, but I do know that it is enough for clams. Do I need anything else to keep my tank beautiful?
<Beauty is in the eye of the beholder.>
I don't have any room for a sump or refugium. Thank you for your help.
1 maroon clown
1 yellow tang (will get rid of when too big)
<Already is regardless of size.>
1 Naso tang (will get rid of when too big)
<Same>
2 lawnmower blennies
1 bubble coral
1 flowerpot coral
1 chili coral
3 Nephthea
1 rainbow polyp rock
1 open brain coral
2 peppermint shrimp
2 Astraea snails
Everything is doing quite well in the tank.
<Good>
<Chris>

High Ph Low Alk 03/11/2008
Hi everyone,
After years of looking and reading all information on your site I have to say you have to be the most informative site on the net. That being said, I find little information on our problem. Here's the tank info .. 6 year old 125G reef , 55G sump/ refugium with 4" sand bed and some Chaeto, AquaC EV120, 3 powerheads for flow, half crushed coral substrate, half sand, 150 to 200 pounds live rock. Top off water and water changes done with RO/DI and Red Sea Coral Pro Salt.
Fish: Yellow Tang, Powder Brown Tang, Lawnmower Blenny, 3 Ocellaris Clownfish, Mandarin Dragonet, Coral Beauty, 2 Cleaner Shrimps, Hermit Crabs, Snails etc. Lots of little Mysis and Pods. Unfortunately some bigger Bristleworms (due to I'm sure nutrient rich tank)
Corals: 2 Bubble Corals one green one purple, Zoa rock, Torch Coral, Frogspawn, Suncoral, Hammer Coral, Ricordea and other Mushrooms, on the opposite side of the tank Purple Leather Coral, and a Devils Hand Leather, Green and Red Favia. Coco worm and various other feather dusters.
Parameters: March 4, 2008 they were Temp 78, Ph 8.4, SG 1.026, Alk 2.2 mEq/l, Ca 400ppm, Nitrate 20 ppm, Nitrite 0, Amm 0, Phos .02
March 6, 2008 they were Temp 78, Ph 8.6, SG 1.026, Alk 3 mEq/l, Ca 350 ppm, Nitrate 20 ppm, Nitrite 0, Amm 0, Phos .02
We use a Refractometer for SG, Ph probe (double checked level with chemical test), Red Sea tests for Calcium, Nitrate, Phosphates, Hagen test kit for Nitrites, and KH, API for Ammonia.
Now I know on your site it says its uncommon and of course it happens to us. So in trying to raise our alkalinity we used good ole Arm and Hammer baking soda. Which it did raise it however just to have it drop off a day or two later.
<Mmm, yes... likely the biomineralizing life...>
We hate adding things to our tank but being as it is 6 years old perhaps inevitable.
<Mmmm, see here: http://wetwebmedia.com/substrepl.htm
and the linked files above... till you read enough re the rationale of adding to/replacing some of the substrate, rock...>
I know that calcium, alkalinity, and magnesium all kind of work together to provide a stable environment however we are having a hard time trying to find a magnesium test in our city.
<See our Links pages for Marine... I'd order via an etailer>
Would that possibly be the reason for our issue?
<The issue? Loss of alkalinity? Not likely>
What I would like to know is what would be the cause of this spike in Ph?
<Mmm, likely artifactual... the test kit... no cause for alarm>
Can you suggest any possible solutions for us. We've gone 6 years without having to ask any questions just by reading information on your site so I'd like to say a big thank you, you don't know how much WetWeb has helped over the years.
Tracy
<Renewing part of the hard-scape would be my longer-solution... a DSB of good depth, fine sand... Bob Fenner>

pH Problem - 3-10-08
Hey guys,
<How goes it? Mike here this evening>
I have a question for you about my PH level. First off here is the info on my system:
PH- 7.9 morning 8.1 mid day
Calcium-370
Alk-3.5- 4.0 approx mEq/l
I use RO water from a 4 stage Kent maxima
Seachem carbon in use and RowaPhos
Nitrate, nitrite, ammonia, and phosphate all read 0 or very close to 0. (got the Merck kit for phosphates :) )
I can't seem to get my ph up to 8.3 during the day. I have doubled my water changes to 2x per week to try to correct the ph problem; however, I haven't had any luck. I use the SeaChem for reef tanks salt mix. My alkalinity was around 2.5 and my calcium was around 450 about a week ago and I have been adding more part B of C-balance to try to balance to raise the alkalinity. I figured that once I got the alkalinity to 4.0 the ph would end up higher…but it isn't. I think for my alkalinity level my calcium level is just a hair low but I don't think that it could account for the reduction in ph.
If anyone can shed some light on this let me know. I really don't want to use chemical means to raise the ph, but the water changes are having little effect. Oh yea…one more thing. I tested the water from the salt mix and it has a ph of around 8.26 after sitting for several hours.
<Get hold of Seachem's buffer, buffer your RO water to ~8.3 before adding the salt mix, and I bet your pH issues disappear. Salt mixes don't really have enough buffers in them to keep RO water at a high, stable pH>
Thanks!
<Anytime>
Steve
<M. Maddox>

Re: Sick clownfish? pH vacillation...   12/23/07
Hi Bob (and crew),
<Jas>
Thanks for your replies and advice so far. The clownfish is in stable condition -- not getting worse, maybe a little more normal.
However, something strange is definitely going on with my water, which is probably related. I have a pH monitor (PinPoint), so I can watch the pH all day (fun!). I 2-point calibrated it in early Dec. The normal range in my tank seems to be 7.9-8.2 or so. As usual, the pH goes down in the dark and up during lights on. Lately, though, I have noticed the pH go DOWN at some point during the reef daylight. In fact, it's happening right now, not too long before the lights go out for the night. It is currently 7.93 and holding, though it dropped rather quickly (less than 1 hour) from over 8.00.
<Mmm, there is/should be a small diurnal drop as this as well... usually early afternoon equivalents...>
I just tested a few other parameters:
T = 80.4 F
Alk = 7.3 dKH
Ca = 380ppm
SG = 1.025
Top-off water has pH of about 8.1.
Besides pumps, the only water equipment I have are a skimmer (EuroReef RS-80) and a phosphate reactor running GFO phosphate media and poly-filters; I cut circular pieces of poly-filter as padding for the top and bottom of the canister holding the GFO.
Any ideas why I am having this daylight drop in pH?
Thanks,
Jason
<Could be the phosphate removing gear... could be the probe needs recalibration... This reading, fluctuation should not be a problem though. Bob Fenner>

My Tank Is Going To Put Me In An Asylum... Yikes! pH anomalies... large system, DSB maint.   10/2/07
Cheers guys, thanks for everything you do!
<Welcome>
Here's my question: I have a large system (1000 gallons), rock has been established for years (part of a tank move), when setting up the system 3 months ago I started to run into psychotic Ph issues, I thought it was CO2 (air conditioning induced), my reactor was tuned in and everything, I finally gave up, removed my $800 Deltec reactor, replaced it with a dual chamber model I built from $40 worth of Lowe's parts and boom, no ph issues (I found out later other people have had issues with Rowalith as well).
<Yes>
Anyway, I have several DSBs (my prop tanks have light coating of oolitic sand), and I planned on using Nassarius but IDIOT me forgot to get them as I was distracted by the ph issue. In the end all my param.s check out, no trates, no phosphate (haven't checked silicate yet but I use DI), mg 1250, Alk 10.5 dKH, ca 425, and I drip Kalk. All of my SPS has great polyp extension but they aren't coloring to the level I know that they can achieve (they lost color from the ph issues and stress). Everybody was dipped in TMPCC and there are no pests to speak of. I have a good amount of snails (true Vibex, Trochus, Mithrax crabs) on the way.
<Watch these last... I would exclude Mithraculus here>
I noticed some of the sand has a black layer below the top layer, the question is I ASSUME (we all know what happens when we assume that's why I am asking you guys) that once the clean up crew is in it should allieve and ultimately fix the DSBs and light sanded beds, and that I should not move to replace the sand, correct?
<If so, only a bit at a time, any given day... and "gingerly"... best to take that part of the system off line... dump, rinse, even bleach, FW rinse, air-dry that batch of sand... replace it some days later...>
I don't see hydrogen sulfide bubbles yet.
<You may not... and yet this could be a/the source of pH anomaly, worse troubles...>
I am also going to start monitoring ORP and from there will consider ozone.
<I would... For a system of this size, Ozone... and a dryer in conjunction would definitely be on my have list>
Thanks again
Tom
<Bob Fenner>

My Instant Ocean Salt Raises My pH To 8.8 – 11/13/07
First off, thank you for all the help you guys give to us ignorant hobbyists.
<<Mmm, not “ignorant” I’m sure…>>
I'm very new to the hobby and this is my first time writing a question, but I've already spent countless hours on your site, and reading "The Conscientious Aquarist."
<<Excellent>>
Great book by the way.
<<Much in agreement>>
Anyways, I inherited a VERY dirty 120g tank and took about 50% of the original water (all the fish in it died after 1 hour of transport).
<<…!>>
It has a huge wet-dry trickle filter (already replaced bio-balls with live-rock 2 months ago), about 45 lbs live rock (plan on getting more), I added 1- snowflake eel, 4- damsels, 1- arrow crab, 1- zebra hermit, 1- scarlet hermit, about 10- blue-legged hermits, and about 6- turbo snails (used to be a lot more but they've been dying off. I'm assuming it’s due to my nitrate issue).
<<Oh?>>
Ammonia - 0, nitrite - 0, nitrate - 80 (gone down recently from over 160!),
<<Yeeikes!>>
pH 8.8,
<<Too high as you know, do get this down to about 8.4>>
Phosphates- 1.0,
<<Way too high… Everything needs Phosphate to survive, but you should strive to keep this reading below 0.02ppm>>
Specific gravity- 1.022.
<<Natural saltwater levels are best…1.025/1.026>>
Despite the levels, all the fish seem to be doing fine (except for the snails R.I.P.).
<<Maybe not for the long term…but then maybe these readings are not as they seem…do verify them/the efficacy of your test kits>>
I just bought a 5-stage RO/DI that will cure my phosphate problem so my only problems now are nitrates and pH. I age the water in 3 separate closed 6g tubs each with their own airstone for 24 hours. The pH at this time is 7.4 (nitrates 0). I then add 3 cups of Instant Ocean and after another 24 hours the pH is at 8.8!
<<Troubling…assuming the tester is accurate, something is terribly wrong here. I will also state that after about 3 decades of use, I recently changed from using Instant Ocean salts due to troubles with the last dozen or so buckets I’ve purchased>>
I have done multiple tests and always the same.
<<I see…with new kits, and of different brands?>>
Is this normal for synthetic salts?
<<Not in my experience and not with this brand>>
Should I use an acid buffer for all my change water and if so what kind?
<<I wouldn’t… If this is truly a characteristic of the salt mix, I would consider a change…and my recommendation for a switch is the Seachem brand of artificial sea salts>>
For my nitrate problem I've added a ton of Denitrate chemical media, I do a little more than a 15% bi-monthly water change, and I have a large hang-on turbojet Berlin skimmer. Am I doing anything wrong?
<<Until the nitrates are brought down I would increase the water changes to bi-weekly. I would also recommend a better/more efficient skimmer>>
Suggestions to better my set-up?
<<Along with what I’ve already stated, the addition of a refugium with a DSB and Chaetomorpha macroalgae would be beneficial…but you also need to determine the source of the Nitrates. You state you’ve just acquired an RO/DI unit which should help here as well if the Nitrates are coming from your source water (have you tested this?). I would also add as small canister filter with cut-up Poly-Filter in it>>
I apologize for the length.
<<Not a problem>>
I just want the best for my fish.
<<Please do read here and among the associated links at the top of the pages: http://www.wetwebmedia.com/marine/setup/filtration/marineFiltr.htm >>
Thank you so much for the help!
-Phil
<<Happy to assist. EricR>>

pH of top-off water  9/23/07
Good morning all,
<Kim>
As always, thank you so much for sharing your knowledge with all of us out here on the learning curve of this hobby. I have been struggling with maintaining the PH level of my top off water. I have attached the information that I have found on WWM below for reference/background, as this person had the exact same problem I am experiencing.
<Okay>
I keep about eight gallons of top off at a time right now. Recently I purchased a RO/DI unit, and at the same time I switched from using Kent Marine Buffer over to SeaChem Marine Buffer. Since then I have not been able to keep the PH up in the Top off water. After researching here, I thought that maybe the powerhead I have in the bucket is not strong enough.
<Mmm, shouldn't matter>
I upped it to a Maxijet 1200, and it hasn't helped at all. I aerate the water with the powerhead, and keep it heated as well.
<Good>
I also keep a cover on the bucket. If I buffer it to proper PH at night, the next day it is consistently back down below the PH scale.
<May need to leave the top off...>
Do you have any other suggestions as to what could be wrong? I'm wondering if the process works such that when you add the buffer and test an hour or so later, the test should be off the charts, but settle back the appropriate level the following day?
<Usually so, yes>
Presently I'm only adding enough buffer to bring it up to the 8.2ish range within an hour or so.
As an aside, like the other inquirer, I live in an older home, so it is not super-well insulated.
<Actually better most times for air exchange...>
Thank you for your time.
Regards,
Kim in Boston
<I would first try leaving the mixing container top ajar for a day... Next I would try adding a teaspoon or two per five gallons of simple baking soda (Sodium Bicarbonate) to see if this moves the pH. Please do re-contact me/us re. Bob Fenner>

High pH 9/20/07
Hello Helpful People,
<Hello Jazmine>
I have a major concern regarding my current pH. When I tested last night around 7PM it was 8.51. Around 11PM it dropped down to 8.45. This morning at 6:30AM it was 8.37. I tested it at 5:30P this evening and it has increased to 8.61. I honestly cant figure out what is causing the increase. I recently lost (2) Emerald crabs & (1) Sally Lightfoot crab. I wonder if the loss is due to my high PH levels all of my other parameters appear to be stable i.e. dKH 8.3, Calcium 360 ppm, Nitrate 5 ppm, Ammonia 0, Nitrites 0, Phosphates .5 ppm, Salinity 1.023, & temp 78.6. I performed a 30 gal water change on 9/16 which consisted of distilled water & Instant Ocean salt. Part of my regular routine is to dose 12 drops of iodine nightly. The only thing I did differently on 9/16 was to dose 1 tsp of Kent's Trace Elements (the directions call for 1 tsp per 50 gallons).
I have a 90 gal tank with a 20 gal sump. My fish & corals seem to be ok, for the moment. If the PH continues to increase, I'm not sure how my tank will fair.
Please let me know what you believe is causing the increase, and what if anything can be done to correct it.
Your guidance as always is appreciated.
<Mmm, a pH of what you are reading is not extremely high and would not cause the death of your crabs. You may have an unknown predator in the tank that caused the demise. On another note, large Sally's can and will attack other invertebrates and small fish, and may have been the reason for the Emerald's loss. I would stop dosing iodine for a while and if you are using Lugol's solution, 12 drops per night is way too much. Lugol's is normally dispensed at one drop per 10 gallons weekly. I'd also re-read the instructions on your iodine supplement (if not using Lugol's) thinking you are overdosing here. Iodine is not one of those supplements where more is better, quite the reverse. As for your three digit pH readings, I assume you are using an electronic device to measure pH. You may want to recalibrate the unit using a pH calibration fluid. Based on the info you provided, I'd be very surprised if your pH was actually that high.
James (Salty Dog)>
Jazmine

Re: High pH 9/23/07
Hi Salty,
<Hello Jazmine>
Thanks for allaying my fears that the high PH killed my critters.
<You're welcome.>
I thought about what you said in relation to an unknown predator. The only thing in my tank large enough to kill one of my crabs is a 6 inch Engineer Goby. Should I be concerned about the Goby?
<No.>
I have a Hanna digital pH monitor, which I recently calibrated. I am going to take a water sample to my LFS and ask them to test the pH. In addition I only used Kent's Iodine.
<Jazmine, one thing to keep in mind is that digital pH testers in this price range are not dead accurate. If you bought the model pHep4, it's accuracy is +/- .1, which means your pH could read .85 higher or lower. The model pHep5 is a more accurate unit with an
accuracy of +/- .01 which could give you a drift of .085 either way. These numbers would be based on a known sample of 8.5pH.>
Thanks,
<You're welcome. James (Salty Dog)>
Jazmine

Depressed pH...Air-Conditioning And CO2 – 09/07/07
Guys, my system is RACKING my brain.
<<Oh?>>
I have in total a 500 gallon system (between tanks, sump, all that good stuff). Anyway, I can’t get pH above 8.0 naturally (this with dripping Kalk 24 hrs a day, pH drops to 7.8 at night), but when I take a sample outside, and put an airstone in it, it rises to 8.3 in an hour.
<<Mmm...a CO2 issue...>>
I have a display located in the house, the sump is in the basement, and two more large tanks in another room in the house. I live in VA and it gets hotter than Hades so I have two window units in addition to central air (it’s an old house).
<<I see>>
I have read that air conditioners put off CO2,
<<Yes...but ”indirectly”... If I understand what I have read, the air-conditioning units do not produce CO2 themselves, but rather they contributes to the production of this element through the burning of fossil-fuels to make the electricity needed to run the air-conditioners (some estimated 3,400lbs a year per average American household)>>
so I am going to aerate (with pumps outside with lines running into the house) to help.
<<This will help, but not for the reason you think. The problem is likely that your house is sealed very tightly allowing CO2 from respiration and the use of gas appliances to build to very high levels>>
It seems confined to the rooms with the window units as I have taken unused saltwater samples that would normally be 8.3, put it in those rooms, left it for a while, and the pH will drop to 8.0.
<<Interesting...try “cracking” a window and see what happens to the pH>>
In sum, I know aerating will help, a refugium which I just plumbed in will help, I read on WetWebMedia carbon can help raise pH. Do you have any other recommendations?
<<Mmm, not really...other than “piping-in” a source of fresh outside air near the tank locations>>
What is it that causes air conditioners to put off CO2?
<<As stated, I don’t think these units do this directly>>
I told my wife it was because she talks too much and that was the cause of the excess CO2 (LOL).
<<Hah! A brave (or foolish?) man indeed...though there is some truth here>>
Obviously this is a summer issue, and in another month or two I won’t have to worry about it, but next year it will be back.
<<Are these tanks new/newly placed in this house? Is this a phenomenon you have experienced before? I ask this because I would expect but for those times of the year when you have windows open that you would experience the problem year-round (i.e. – during the cold of winter when the house is again sealed up and the heat is running)>>
I have tons of SPS, and they are healthy but not at peak color (pH will drop at night to 7.8).
<<This may not be a function of the pH...7.8 is not all “that bad”...though you want to make sure it doesn’t drop any lower>>
Thanks for any advice.
Tom
<<Happy to help. EricR>>

Re: PH/calcium-reactor – 06/08/07
Hi Bob Fenner,
<Mohamed>
I have read the articles below. If I understand it correctly a high calcium level of 350 - 450 and KH of 8 - 12 would give you a high PH say 8.3.
<Mmm, somewhere this abouts. There are other factors... that could move this higher or lower>
I use a mixture of sodium bicarbonate and sodium carbonate in = quantity to maintain KH and calcium chloride for calcium (temporary).
<Mmm, yes... am hoping you've seen my cursory statements re the use of CaCl2...>
My tank is more a holding tank until my new place will be ready within a year, so the tank has a lot of is coral.
<I see>
Latest test my KH is 10 my calcium is 340 but my PH is still low, this morning it was 7.88, what else could be the problem?
<Mmm, perhaps an abundance of carbon dioxide... See WWM re... the search tool...>
My nutrient levels are undetectable. I do 5% water change a week.
Evaporated water, I use a Kalk reactor. I completed the calcium reactor should be connected this weekend after I sort-out the leaks.
<Ah, good... this added piece of equipment will likely solve all these issues in one throw>
The only level I am unsure of currently is magnesium waiting for a new test kit.
Thanks
Mohamed
<Thank you for sharing your adventures, plans with me/us. Bob Fenner>

pH on 90 gal reef – 06/08/07
Hello All:
<Paul>
My question is concerning PH on my 90 gal 3 year old reef. After a recent upgrade to an Aquacontroller III, I became aware of lower PH values than I thought I was experiencing. My readings read between 7.81 during the evening to 8.03 during the day. For the past several years I have used a GEO calcium reactor which has kept my Ca and Alk within acceptable range. Since opening the windows tends to raise the PH, I attribute the low PH to C02 buildup.
<Ahh! Yes... just have responded to another querier re this poss. issue>
Unfortunately, living in south Florida prohibits me from keeping the windows open most of the time. Doing so tends to create an entirely different problem (Heat!). I thought one way of raising my PH would be to install a Nilsen reactor in addition to my current calcium reactor.
<Worth trying... though Kalk won't sustain a higher pH...>
I purchased a unit that is a good size. The manufacturer claims it can hold up to 2 cups of Kalkwasser powder but I started off with 1 cup. I drip the Kalk water as a steady drip during the evening after the lights are off. It is controlled by both the Aquacontroller that only allows it to run in the evening as well as float switch that shuts off a solenoid valve controlling my RO replacement water. The RO water runs through the Nilsen Reactor before entering my sump. This setup works great. I also have the Nilsen Reactor set up to only mix (auto spin) during the daytime when the Reactor is not dripping Kalk. All sounds great right? Here is my question. Although this has improved my PH somewhat, I am rather surprised at the readings. It now ranges between 7.91 at night to 8.02 during the day. I realize these numbers are fine and the swing is less than before but I thought I would achieve higher readings. I cannot drip 24/7 since even a slow drip would cause the unit to shut off after the sump has reached its desired water level.
<Correct... but/and not likely advantageous to "drip" during light hours in any case>
When I first set up the Nilsen reactor my PH went as high as 8.15 during the day and my Alk went up as well. After 2 weeks the Alk has come down and the PH high has also come down.
<Yes... do you understand what went, is going on here? The ready "boost" of added hydroxide (from the Kalk)... can/will only "have adventures" for some time... what are the rate-limiting factors here?>
My reef has been thriving well for 3 years. Some would say (including you I am sure) that I should probably leave well enough alone.
<Oh! You are correct>
I was wondering if you had any recommendations on the PH.
<Mmm, yes... to ignore it here really... if you are of the mind to augment, look into purposeful buffering products of DIY mixtures of carbonate/s, bicarbonate/s, possibly a bit of Borate... "toss in a spoonful" of this once a day... into the sump...>
My only thought was to use the full 2 cups of Kalk powder in the Nilsen Reactor. Not sure if this would change much since I am sure the water going into the Nilsen is saturated.
<Mmm, won't have to fill the unit as often...>
It may only change the length of time between required refills of Kalk powder.
<Dang! I've gots to read ahead of keying!>
Thanks for your help. Paul, Boynton Beach, FL
<Oh! Have been diving (Splashdown Divers) off your coast... Mum in law has a Winter place in Lauderdale Lakes... Really likely the patch reefs off your coast... Many fine folks, restaurants, watering holes in your town...>
90 gal reef
sump/ refugium
(2) 175 10K MH
(2) 110 watt VHO super actinics
PH 7.91-8.02
Alk 10dkh
Ca 410
Nitrate 0
Phosphate 0
Magnesium 1370
Water changes 10 gal monthly
<I'd step this up... maybe twice a month... Bob Fenner>

How Do I Raise The pH In A Very (3g) Small Reef Tank?...Water Changes! - 05/26/07
Hello,
<<Hi Joe>>
Let me start with saying you guys are great!
<<We do try...thanks!>>
I have a 3-gallon reef tank.
<<Mmm, tiny...>>
I bought a Pulsing Xenia and placed in my tank only to find it oh-boy so happy.
<<Cool!>>
So I researched this site and found out about pH plays a major part for Xenia.
<<Not just for Xenia mate...>>
So after testing I found my pH at 6.6.
<<Hmm...am doubtful...your tank would not survive this pH level.  I very much suggest you validate the efficacy of your test kit>>
I know way way way to low.
<<Indeed...but not likely an accurate reading>>
How can I raise this to 8.3 without using a supplement even if it can be done with no supplement?
<<On such a small system as yours, maintaining "balance" is most easily and effectively done with simple "water changes."  Just make sure to prepare/age the saltwater correctly>>
If not what supplement would you advise?
<<None, for this size tank>>
I dose with Kent alk buffer so my dKH is bout 10 or 11.
<<No need to use this...and doing so will probably cause more problems than help.  If your pH reading does by chance turn out to be accurate, then I would look to the use/overuse of this product in this small tank as the culprit>>
Also I use Red Sea salt mix.
<<Better/more stable brands; in my opinion, to be had (IO, Tropic Marin, Seachem)>>
Is it a must to aerate and if I can't would there be negatives to this?
<<Adequate water movement is all you need/is essential to the system>>
Thanks, Joe
<<First thing to do here Joe...validate that pH reading.  Regards, EricR>>

pH, SW... – 5/4/07
Hello Crew. I have had this tank for five years now and I am about to give it up.
<!?>
First some specs. 65 gallon tub with 20 gallon sump and 20 gallon refugium. Total water volume minus sand  and rock is probably around 85 gallons. Two closed loop pumps in main tank , one 1100gph, one 1200gph. Return water via a mag nine through a chiller.
<Am about to give up on your msg... where's your spacing?>
Kent skimmer. Four actinics of which two are VHO 95 watt and two are 30 watt. Two 400 watt 20k halides which operate on a light rail placing bulbs 3 inches above water.
<Too close>
Each halide burns 2 hours a day giving four hours of halide light. I feel anymore just adds heat and spurs algae growth.
<... no>
A SeaSwirl handles the return to the tank along with another exit on the opposite side of the tank.Two one inch exits
<Too small>
handle the overflow to the sumpand skim the surface water quite well.One of the overflows diverts a small quantity of water to the refugium which has a 18 watt daylight bulb illuminating it on reverse cycle lighting.The water from the refugium is
passive carbon filtered before returning to the sump.The cheato
<Algae that goes crunch?>
and othe algaes show no aggresive growth which I think indicates my nutrient levels are low. Nitrate levels are barely readable using a Salifert kit.Phosphate unreadable using a Salifert kit.I do use phosphate removing media.Tank inhabitants range from 4"acro colonies such as millepora,samentosa, aspera,and the fast growing turaki to encrusting montipora and frags of ten or so other sps. Large polyp types include a bubble,two pagodas,four open brains, a tounge,a small acan,and afist sized colony of galaxia.No soft coral except for various mushrooms and zooanthids.Other than a Pseudochromis and mithrax crabs,cerith snails that's it.While none show a lot of growth except for the turaki they seem healthy.Most of the acros extend polyps during the dayand really do at night.At nine or so at night one of the closed loops shuts downfor two hours to give them a breather from the current.At this time once a week I feed
the corals either DT oyster eggs or copepod/diatom mixture I scrape off the side of the refugium using a brine shrimp net. This tank has always had a low PH problem and over the years I have tried various buffers which gave so so results.
<... for what reason/s?>
I tried kalkwasser drips and my latest venture with a controller resulted in constant salinity dilution by the amount of kalk being dosed to keep the Ph at 8.19 at night. It was only when it started diving to 7.8 that I became really worried.Im not obsessed with it,I would be happy with an 8.2 all the time. I practise good husbandry with regular 2week 25% +/- water changes and vacumn most of the gook off the rocks with a rig I made. I may have a dead spot in the sand on end of the tank for it has gone darkish  against the glass and may have sulfur intrusion but I know of no way to verify it.What can I do to correct the low Ph at night? I have too much invested to stress the inhabitants to the point of going south. I should mention that
even during the light period in the day the Ph only rises to 8.07 or 8.1. Any help would be greatly greatly appreciated.
<You actually answer all the questions you posit... Please read here re pH anomalies/fixes: http://wetwebmedia.com/alkalinity.htm
and the linked files above. Bob Fenner>

Re: pH, SW     5/7/07
     I apologize for offending with my spacing . I do not have a computer at home so I only have a small time frame to use the one I have access to.
<Mmm... the small "cost" of communicating (at least with us) is an attempt at proper English... spellchecker...>
I am not sure I understand what you meant by answering my  own post.
<Your insights are obvious... to me it seems you're quite aware of the root/causes of the situation here>
This weekend I changed 20 gallons of water in the system. It was prebuffered, oxygenated, before adding salt. The R.O. water was at 7.2 at the start and 8.3 at the end of the process.
      Sunday, the high reading was 8.06. This morning the reading was 7.75. I verified the pinpoint the monitors reading with a test kit. Calcium was 380 and alkalinity was 4.23. I have tried adjusting the alkalinity up to no avail as to change in Ph.
<These are not necessarily linked events... there is unfortunate, easily mis-understood cross-terminology at play here... Alkalinity and alkaline are not the same...>
As expected, it only lowered calcium. I use Seachem products. Advantage calcium, Reef builder and buffer. I also use Instant Ocean salt which I noticed has been dropped from Marine Depot as a product. Should I change to a different salt?
<I would not... but would continue reading... Do you understand what pH is? You (and everyone) are faced with either adding to your system (more carbonate, bicarbonates mostly... possibly other means like ozone) ways/means of elevating pH... and/or reducing the numbers, degrees of ways in which you are reducing this and alkaline reserve (pH buffering capacity)... More soluble substrates, rock... less foods, feeding, improved skimming, enhanced ReDox... Read on! Where you were referred to. Bob Fenner>

Re: continuing ph saga, "Closed-up houses...." Houseplants are NOT your friends!    5/10/07
Hi Bob,
              I ran the indoor, outdoor air CO2 test with the following results. Outdoor air raised the Ph reading from 8.0 to 8.3 in less than 30 minutes.
<Ah, yes...>
Using a fresh sample and indoor air the reading actually fell to 7.8. My wife said she is not going to stop breathing so my tank will have a higher reading.
<Heeeee! That four percent of exhaled CO2 in a too-sealed living space is deleterious...>
              So I constructed a filtered outdoor air box to feed my skimmer. The net gain was a low of 8.0(much improved over 7.76) to a day time high of 8.15. Calcium is 340 to 360.
<Bingo>
Total alkalinity is 5 meq. Carbonate alkalinity is 3.3 meq. Total alkalinity is high because I dosed Kalkwasser in an effort to bump up Ph a bit. It did not work.
<Mmm, no... not a permanent/real fix here>
               I am considering building an aeration tank out of a spare 5 gallon I have. I could  use a venturi powerhead using outside air in a effort to blow off more carbon dioxide. Do you think this is the folly of more is better?
<Neat idea>
Using air gaps I could eliminate the overflow hazard. The flow could be adjusted low enough to give some dwell time. Sounds like a skimmer, I know. Thanks for your help so far.
<Thank you for sharing! BobF>

pH/Finger Leather, Coral Health 4/12/07
Hi there Crew,
<Hello Michelle>
First, let me thank you for the amazing website. I have spent many an hour cruising your site. (I did look for answers before asking) : )
I started a 55 gal saltwater tank 5 weeks ago. I have 55 lbs LR, and live sand 40 lbs. I use R/O water w/Kent Marine Salt mix. I have a light w/high output florescent, blue actinic's and a moon light setting.
<Knowing the wattage helps.>
My lighting cycle is 12 hrs on, 12 off. I do 5% water changes twice a week.  My filter is a Freedom Flow, rated to 90 gals, and I have two Maxi jets, a 900 & 1200.
My stats: <Parameters> Salinity: 1.024, PH: 8.0, Nitrates: 0, Nitrites: 0, GK: <GK?.. dKH?> 11 and Ammonia: 0.
Tank inhabitants: 1 Turbo Snail, 1 Scarlet Shrimp, 3 Hermit Crabs, 4 Green Chromis, 2 Percula Clowns (tank raised), 2 Fire Fish Gobies, 1 Starry Dragonet and 1 Copper Banded Butterfly. Invertebrates: 1 Branching Hammer soft coral and 1 Finger Leather.  Oh, and a bunch of Caulerpa.  -Whew, I think that's it....  
<Way too many fish for your 55.  The Copper Band was not a good choice if you are new at this.  More than likely will no be around long.>
Sorry to be long winded, but I want you to have the info, hopefully I "said" it right.
First question:  My pH, I can't seem to get it higher than 8.0.
<Not surprising with your fish load.>
Now,  I own Bob's book (awesome!!!) and I have been adding, for three weeks, 2 teaspoons of baking soda. Yet this doesn't seem to make a difference. I followed his directions and add it straight to the filter and only at the water changes. I read the FAQ on pH and I noticed that one guy said 1 teaspoon per gallon, but I thought Bob said 1 teasp per 10 gals???   What should I do? I don't want to harm any of my creatures.
<Really need to test dKH with a quality test kit, and then add a little of the buffer daily (one tablespoon per 10 gallons will work), then test dKH the following day.  A good level to maintain is 8-12 dKH.>
Is  8.0 ok?
<Not bad, but you can help this matter by reducing your fish load.>  
Second question: My Hammer is flourishing! Yay!  But my Finger Leather is not. The darn LFS said to put him in low flow, so I tried that, but he didn't seem to like it. Plus I read on FAQ that he should be in high flow, so I moved him. Finger guy is now right up on my the top of my rocks, about 6 - 7 inches from my light. He's in a high flow area. He shed a bunch of mucous-y stuff, but his polyps don't really come out.
<They do go through this process.  If things are normal, it will re-bloom soon.>
Today I woke up and one "branch" is squished down, while the other is just kind of dark. Some polyps out, but not many. The Finger is no where near the Hammer. I add Iodine & Phyto-Plankton once a week. What am I doing wrong?
<The Copper Band is a notorious coral eater, surprised your LFS sold you this knowing you have corals.  He is most likely the bulk of the problem and
should be removed and taken back to the dealer or find a good home for it.>
BTW, the local LFS said I didn't need a heater. My tank temp runs about 80-82.
<Where do you live?  What is your ambient night time temperature?>
I am actually a bit frustrated with the local LFS 's around here (there's three) I get conflicting info from each of them, sometimes from employee's within the store!  LOL  Ack!
<Working at a fish store does not necessarily mean he/she is a knowledgeable person in this field.>
Oh also I had to say, no one told me about the possibility of getting Sea Stars with your LR! They said to watch for other stuff. But I found one, how cool is that!!!!!  I love my tank and want to do the right thing. Thank you so much for your help and advice!  You guys rock!!
<Definitely more reading/learning for you Michelle.>
Sincerely,
<James (Salty Dog)>
Michelle

Help! Too high PH... Salt mix...  4/6/07
Hi Crew,
<Don>
I have been using your site for the 3 years that I have been keeping a reef tank with fish and live rock. I have a 55 gallon tank, aqua c remora pro
<Proper nouns; capitalized>
skimmer, refugium w/macroalgae, lots of live rock, live sand with detritivores, sand plenum, 150W MH x 2, T5 fluorescent 54 w x 2 actinic and white, magnum 350 canister filter w/floss. Live stock includes a host anemone, mushroom coral, pulsating xenia, brain coral, finger leather coral, squamosa clam, feather duster worms, polyps, 1 yellow tang, 1 powder brown tang,
<Hard to keep... particularly in such a small volume>
two damsel fish, one blue Linckia starfish, one mandarin fish, one lawnmower blenny.
My water parameters are as follows: PH swings from 8.0 to 8.7 daily.
<Too much...>
It was even worse, until yesterday, when I did a large 20 gallon water change, with Coralife sea salt,
<I'd switch brands>
RO water. My skimmer has been going wild, filling the cup with foam in around 10 hours. Nitrates 5, nitrites 0, DKH 9.9, Calcium 280
Mg/l. ALL OF MY ANIMALS ARE DECLINING RAPIDLY! What is going on?
<In the words taken from the classic "Wizard of Oz" (in my best Wicked Witch of the West voice): "They're melting"... the pH is too high, too vacillating... interfering chemically, biochemically...>
I have not seen this happen before. Please help me to correct this situation ASAP.
<The salt mix... your procedure/s for mixing, storing it...>
Some more info to possibly help: my pulsating xenia have been declining for a couple of weeks. I have been trying to identify why. I noticed that my calcium was down to 200, and my DKH was up to 18 last week. I also noticed foam showing up identical to what the skimmer produces, in small clumps floating around the top of the aquarium at that time.
Please help ASAP!!!!
Thank you,
Don Laskey
<Please read here: http://wetwebmedia.com/marine/setup/index.htm
Scroll down... the area below the blue bar... on Water Issues... synthetics... Bob Fenner>

High ph and Alk  - 03/24/07
I am having some problems lowering my Alk and KH values
My tank is 3 years I do water changes 1 once a week about 10 to 15 %
All my calculations are within normal values
Cal 450
Mag 1250
Salt 31
Ph 8.3-8.4
Phos .05
nitrate is ok a bit on the high side then my liking but I understand that considering I have a fish tank with 15 medium size in a 120 gallons tank, this is ok but if you have any suggestions I sure would like to here them on this.
copper 0
KH/alkalinity is KH value is 16 dKH and my alkalinity in meg/l is 5.71.
<Mmm, a bit high... but going along with your biomineral and pH readings... not a bad situation>
I also use a activated carbon bag in my sump is this good or bad for any of the above test
<Not really bad in the least>
I use the Salifert test kit for all of my testing how do I bring this down Alkalinity to a reasonable level thanks frank
<Well... first off, I would panic, nor do much to alter your present situation... "if" real... I would test your test kit/s... esp. alkalinity... It itself may be off... Otherwise, I would dilute the alkaline reserve by simple regular water changes... using water of less alkalinity... See WWM: http://www.wetwebmedia.com/alkalinity.htm
and the linked files above... Bob Fenner>

Please HELP with super high PH :( – 03/17/07
Hi Guys,
<Hello.  Brandon here.>
Before I start wailing about my problems, I would like to compliment you guys on a "SPANKING NICE WEBSITE"!!
<Thank you.>
I remember searching high and low to check compatibility between multiple dwarf angels in the same tank.
Thanks to you guys I have a flame and beauty both in the same 120 peacefully (fatter by the day) living.
<Good to hear it.>
And am quiet proud of it :)))
Same with my bio balls raising nitrates.
One problem is; am unable to find a solution to my high PH.
It started nice at 8.4. I use tap water to top off. Have done it always without problems.
Tap water ph is 8.4 even today.
The ph in my tank is 8.8 and even 8.9 sometime (lights on) and 8.6 to 8.7 (lights off).
Almost got a cardio when I saw it :)
Have read that some lights can affect electronic meters. Since I use a Hanna electronic meter, I tried testing samples in a dark place also.
<Have you made sure that the meter is calibrated?  It could be the calibration solution as well.  I would try out a liquid test kit first thing.>
Have tried all the stuff like soda, pH down, vinegar
<As I said I would make sure that the probe calibration solution is not bad or something, and then I would try to recalibrate the probe, but the very first thing to do is confirm that the pH is really off by using a liquid/other test kit.  If you use these substances before you do this, then you have a good likely hood of causing a major pH crash.>
Nothing works for more than one night. Then alls back to 8.8 and 8.9
<Check with another test kit.>
Here are my tank details
Lights-
1 Osram 5200 K 150w MH on 7 hrs
1 German make 20K 150w MH on 7 hrs
3 AZOO tubes 40w (have almost stopped using them other than dusk n dawn
simulations) on 12 hrs
1 led lamp for moonlight
Circulation
1 Aquanic 3000L connected to SCWD
2 AZOO 2000L opp sides
1 return pump (1000L effective with 2.5 feet head)
Water parameters:
Nitrates < 10
Nitrite, ammonia are zero.
CA 400+ (fluctuates a bit sometimes) using Kalk in all night drip for 10-15 liters on sat n sun (this hardly raises PH more than 1 point)
KH 7-8 dKH
<This is a little low>
Often supplement Kent/AZOO MG+ and AZOO reef iodide
Filtration:
Skimmer connected to 2500L powerhead runs 24 hrs. It removes 30% cup level of tea colored liquid daily.
50Kgs live rock and 100Kgs base rock (must be live now after 8 months)
Substrate is crushed coral
Fortnightly 20% (tank volume without sump) water change. (started from last 1 month)
Tank size and Livestock:
Glass 120G bowfront with 100L sump
1 coral beauty and 1 flame angel
3 damsels
4 perculas
<Watch these guys.  As a rule two Clown Fish only.>
1 firefish
1 sea star
2 cleaner shrimps
5 polyps
5 mushrooms
2-3 snails
Few feather dusters
Hope that is not overloading.
<I might take out two of the Perculas.>
I also suspect my coralline *growth* is non existent due to this high PH.
The existing coralline on the live rocks is not dying thankfully (not growing either).
Would be really, really kind of you to help me.
<Confirm that the probe is correct, and then move on from there.>
Many, many thanks in advance
<You are welcome, Brandon.>
Ranjith

Re: Please HELP with super high PH :(   3/21/07
Hi (Brandon),
<Hello again Ranjith.>
Thank you for the quick response.
<You are welcome.>
I checked like you said with another meter (of a fellow aquarist) that was calibrated recently. The readings are the same.
<Hmmmm.>
It does not seem to be a calibration problem. Also, my nano reads correctly as 8.4 8.5 using the same meter.
<There is a possibility that the tank could be too clean, i.e the skimmer is doing too good a job, as dissolved organics will usually lower the pH.  I would also say check the pH of the tap water that you are using.  I would do a 10-20% water change, and then turn off the skimmer for about two hours a day, to see if that helps.  I might also be advantageous to take a gander here, http://www.wetwebmedia.com/marphalk.htm.>
Any other suggestions?
<Yep.  I listed them above.>
Thanks Again
<You are welcome, I hope that this is of some help.  Brandon.>
Ranjith

Re: Please HELP with super high PH :(   3/21/07
Hiiii :))
<Hello again Ranjith.>
My skimmer's power head conked out and had not been able to take time to go and get a replacement.
So it's been totally shut for the last 3 days. The PH has come DOWN to 8.5  8.6.  in-spite of night long Kalk drip (1 drop every 4 seconds)
Kalk solution is 1 tablespoon of Kalk in 10 liters of tap water. Fresh tap water (10 liters) is added daily for up to 2 weeks to the solution.
Then the settled substance is replaced with new Kalk.
<You are dosing too much.  Please search WWM Re: Kalkwasser, Slurry Method, calculating calcium usage.>
I also read through the article on PH. Quiet informative.
<Indeed.>
This is good news but brings up more questions
1. Just in 3 days of zero skimming, Is it normal for the PH to drop so sharply (8.8 to 8.6) in spite of Kalk drip?
<This is adding DOC’s to the water.  This is a small beneficial build up of organic acids.>
2. If the tank is too clean, then why are nitrates at < 10ppm consistently ?
<This has to do with Nitrifying bacteria.  As a byproduct of NO2 consumption, they release NO3.>
3. Why do I still have good algae growth (green and red) (because of the nitrate I guess?)
<Yes.  This is a likely cause.>
4. Even after the CA is 400+ and good amount of MG and decent alk(7-8dkh), coralline is still not growing fast (nor is it receding).
<Ca is a little high.>
I see spots of pink starting then the pink color vanishes in a day or 2 and only white part remains.
<See above Ca being a little too high, as well as a lower Alk.>
Please do not mind me asking soo many questions. Am quiet new to this hobby and it is difficult to get expert advise here so am coming up with many questions.
<This is good as I like to answer questions.>
And once again, thank you for helping out.
<No problem.>
Cheerssss
<Have a good day.  Brandon>
Ranjith

Re: Please HELP with super high PH :(   3/21/07
Hi Brandon,
<Hello Ranjith.>
One last question.
<Sure thing.>
If the tank is too clean, then why are nitrates at < 10ppm
consistently?
<This has to do with Nitrifying bacteria.  As a byproduct of NO2 consumption, they release NO3.>
Question is, If the skimmer is too efficient, the DOC level left in the tank must be negligible.
<Indeed.>
This should produce very less Ammonia and subsequently the NO2 levels must remain bare minimum. The algae growth would finish off remaining NO3 making the level of NO3 zero or very close to that.
<You do have fish don't you?  DOC's do not in and of themselves cause NH3. When these compounds are broken down NH3 is created.  Your fish are the originating source of your NH3.  They release it during respiration, and when they urinate, or defecate.  This is what your bacteria are feeding off of.  All that a skimmer does, is remove solid/liquid organic mater before it has a chance to be broken down into NH3 or in other words, before it can rot.   The skimmer WILL NOT remove NH3, NO2, or NO3.  Notice the word protein in the name.  This is what it can collect, organic matter that would otherwise rot.  Sometimes feces is a part of this, but there is still NH3 released into the water.  Same with urine.  While there is a certain amount of urine that is protein matter, there is also ammonia, as well as other things. Unfortunate thing here, is that if your skimmer is too good, then all of the organic compounds are removed.  This is bad because you want a little bit to break down into organic acids.  This tempers your pH.>
To sum up, the nitrates level must be related to the DOC’s in the water.
<I would agree if they were excessive, but they are not.  Sometimes NO3 levels have to do with the activity of bacteria inside a power filter.  Basically the NO3 levels seen get insanely high 40-120 ppm.  I have heard of a person having 180ppm at one time though I am sure that this number was off.  This is one of the times that you can chalk up NO3 levels to DOC‘s.  I would say that you are just experiencing normal nitrification, and that the NO3 is mostly being broken down to N.  As far as your skimmer being out causing the level of NO3 to rise, I would closely watch the NH3, and NO2 levels while you don‘t have a pump for the skimmer.  You have been keeping the tank so clean for so long, that you could experience an Ammonia spike, sort of a mini cycle.  So with that in mind please do be careful.>
So, if the DOC’s were almost absent (too efficient skimming) then end
product of NO3 must also be less right?
<Not necessarily.  See above.  I will clarify, for the most part NO3 is the byproduct of a group of nitrifying bacteria.  These bacteria consume NO2 as part of their metabolic process, and the end result is NO3.  There is some NO2 in your system, and these bacteria are consuming it.  NO2 will not be picked up by the skimmer.  Just compound that could rot and eventually become NO2.  This is why the number is low and within acceptable ranges.>
One answer could be that when my PH went down, my nitrates went up (which I have not checked being too happy over the PH drop) ??
<Not likely.  The two are not related.>
Ps: How come you are awake at this time? It must be the middle of the night there.
<I usually am up at this time.  Brandon.>
Cheers
Ranjith

Post cycling pH jump  – 03/15/07
Hi crew,
<George>
I've been reading your FAQs even before I started my setup, and can only say thank you for all your efforts.  I humbly admit while I have kept a simple successful saltwater tank in my past for a few years, the one I am starting now is beginning to humble me more so.
<One of the qualities I seek for myself in this involvement>
Brief overview: 75 gallon hex tank, 95 pounds partly cured live rock (from a store my fellow reef nut has used for a decade) and 100 lbs live sand (Ocean Direct by Carib sea), sump (which I've used until my 24x12x17 refugium came in). Allowed it to cycle in tank and measured pH, refractive index kept at 1.23-1.24, amm, nitrite, and nitrate daily.  All went smoothly all along, not too much debris.  Used deionized tap water (large cartridge type system. no $ yet for an RO sys).  2 weeks ago, all readings finally rested at 0, pH steady at 8.2-8.4, sp. grav at 1.024.even nitrates, and almost simultaneously I began to see the beginnings of the diatom bloom.  Waited 5 more days to make sure readings stayed low, an then ordered cleanup crew. consisting of 10 Nassarius, 10 Ceriths, 5 Turbos, some micro stars and mini brittles (about 120 total), a bottle of live copepods and 2 scarlet cleaner shrimp as well as some rhodophyte and coin Caulerpa; 2-3 cups Chaetomorpha in the fuge (Inland Aquatics, and Live Aquaria source).  At the same time I began setting up a small acclimation/QT tank figuring by time that was done cycling I could start looking for fish.  Again, every single day I measured everything. and all parameters were in line.  The only negative seemed to be the diatoms starting to take off.
<Not necessarily harmful>
On the day all the inverts arrived, suddenly -i.e., within a 1 day period. the pH had jumped to 8.8.  I tested 3 times to be sure, tested the water I was using to make up the salt mix (which by the way is Reef Crystals by Kent).
Immediately instituted a 30% water change, then began acclimation over 3-4 hrs (used very very slow addition of 10% bag volume every 15 min or so).
All is still alive, but I can't stop the climbing pH.  I've been employing a stop gap measure of water changes and using pH down to slowly adjust (it's sulfuric acid, not phosphate based).  All the while Amm, Nitrite, Nitrate remain zero.  Any suggestions or clues or remedies?  100% water change?
<I would not fool with the pH here... I suspect this is an effect, perhaps artifactual of the algae (Chaetomorpha) addition... At any length, the pH will drift down of its own accord... with time, reductive events in the system. Don't panic! Bob Fenner>
Your advice is greatly appreciated !

Re: Post cycling pH jump   3/15/07
Cheers Bob.  I agree...I don't like altering acid-base chemistry by additives except on occasion, and this was one.  The pH bounce back suggested something more.
<Yes>
I've now noted the pH is the AM after a few hrs in the darkness is ~8.2...and after lights on a few hrs it presumably is climbing.
<Bingo>
Figured I should also do some testing of with/without aeration to see the dynamics there.  Seaclone skimmer has been running about 1 week also, producing a fair but not great yield of skimmate (yes...this will be replaced by a more efficient skimmer someday...maybe soon); thinking of adding airstone in sump section to test buffering and gas exchange (indirectly).  So I'll be wary of the O2/CO2 issue and carbonate/bicarb chemistry going on...without use of additives, I think I may be able to find a better balance.
<Time will tell>
Keep up the awesome & noble work.  You're reaching a wider audience than any classroom or publication could reach here!
George
<Ahh, the Net... what will come next? Something like "Star Trek"... and then? BobF>

Pic, pH swings, turning ones system from supplements to a reactor
Thanks for honoring me with the pic of the day!!!! That's cool. I noticed it while reading through all the new FAQ's. I'll take a pic of mine and send it to you as well--the coloration is a little different, but structurally it is identical. My secretary thought I had some kind of rare disease the other day when I told her I had a Cirrhilabrus cyanopleura! Ha ha.
<Hmm, maybe...>
I also had a thought on one of the FAQs. It's on there today--a very long and desperate sounding message from RL. I noted that the pH swing on this tank is 0.4 per day. Also, I noticed that their pH was actually HIGHER in the morning than in the evening (reversed from what you'd normally see.)
Unless there was something dripping overnight that would raise the pH during the darkness hours, what would cause this "reverse pH swing"?
<... A few things... for one... difficult to assess when people mean "first thing in AM"... as in, how long have their lights been on? Another possibility has to do with the types, amounts of marine macro-algae present... some "release" their buffering materials in the eve... elevating, stabilizing pH in the dark... Still another viable suggestion/explanation has to do with long-standing "supplement practices"... and "resuspension/solubilization" of materials... more and more to see the more one looks... Bob Fenner>
James A. Deets

pH and hydrogen sulfide 2/5/07
Kris Jones wrote:
> Dear Crew,
> Yes, another pH question.  I have read your archives and now have a window open as a test to see if my low pH will come up.  In trying to rule out all possible sources of my problems, I'm coming to the experts.  My tank's pH this morning was 7.9, dKH 12.2, Ca 3.25 ppm,
<Mmm... the Calcium... likely needs a nudge of the decimal point. The rest are okay actually>
> PO4 and NO3 in normal range.  I'm wondering if my 2 refugiums with mud beds of 2-3 inches would be producing a build-up of hydrogen sulfide contributing to my problems.
<Mmm... not likely, no. But this material does have reductive tendencies otherwise>
One refugium has Caulerpa and two mangroves flourishing (getting too tall for the tank)
<Take care that these don't break the container they're in...>
and the other
> only has Chaetomorpha growing.  The substrate of my tank is aragonite with continual turnover thanks to my sand-sifting stars and yellow head sleeper gobies.  I've ruled out CO2 as a culprit as my holding tank for my R/ODI water is constantly aerated with a pH about 9.  
<Mmm, I wouldn't be so fast here... do try just aerating some of the system water outdoors for an hour or so...>
> Yesterday I started adding Tropic Marin's Bio-Magnesium.  My LFS owner tested my water as well, but added the Mg test and my Mg was beyond low.
<Out of proportion (3:1) with calcium I take you to mean>
His rationalization is that I can't keep my calcium levels up because of my low Mg, hence my pH won't stay up either.
<Can be so>
Yes, I also dose with Kalkwasser.  BTW my show tank is a 210 gallon FOWLR.  I've also been fighting hair algae for months.  What are your thoughts on refugium mud beds and pH imbalance?
<Can be a factor, as stated>
As always, many, many thanks for your help.
> Jeff
<Mmm, there are a few other possibilities as to cause, and relief here... And have recently gone through, split-up the archived marine "pH and alkalinity" FAQs... I'd give these a once-over. Otherwise, I would not be overly concerned with the values you've presented, the steps you're taking for this FOWLR. Bob Fenner>

Alkalinity and pH
I have a quick question about alkalinity. Last Wednesday I brought home an Elegant Coral and a Open Brain Coral.
<both are placed on the sand bottom right? They must to survive... see archives here at WWM>
By the weekend the Elegant Coral had developed brown jelly disease and infected the open brain above it.
<above it suggests placement of at least on rock. Hmmm... free-living SPS corals become stressed and abraded when polyps cycles cause wounds and tears on live rock... leading to infection. May not have been your problem... could have been shipping/handling if they were new at LFS. Still... you sound like a new aquarist. Do consider that quarantine is necessary for all new fishes and corals (4 weeks in a separate tank). This prevent s the spread of such infection s to your whole tanks, saves lives and has many other benefits. Please visit the WetWebMedia archives on this topic as well. Also... buy a good reference book and read it to guide your purchases before bringing livestock home my friend>
I immediately sucked the disease off them and removed them from the tank. I fresh water dipped them and tried them again. Of course too late, the next day I removed them completely.
<indeed... it is highly contagious/virulent. Best treated in QT for any chance of survival and more so to protect the rest of the tank>
Since then (Sunday) I have been fighting a low PH.
<not caused by the corals of course... if anything, the waning pH of the system stressed the corals and was a catalyst>
About 7.8.
<Doh!>
I have been adding Kent PH Buffer. Today it is about 7.9.
The thing that scares me the most is my alkalinity is 16.32.
<holy cow!>
I checked twice yesterday which was over 18 and today it is 16.32 (DKH). What can I do to lower this and raise the PH at the same time?  
<dilution is the solution to pollution: water changes. And if your Ca is low (under 375ppm here), use Kalkwasser to raise pH without raising Alk directly>
I haven't been adding any 2 part calcium additives at all. Just the Tropic Marin Calcium.
<sounds like things have gotten out of kilter. Several large water changes and then resume with Kalk/buffer or 2-part mix (but shake very well before every dose... critical!)>
Thanks, Ian Roff
<best regards, Anthony>

Low Ph, High dKH
Hello, first time here and I have read and read on your sites, thanks for all the information - really quite amazing what you have provided here, a thousand thank yous.  I have a question; first, my water parameters:
Ph: day 7.9, night 7.75
dKH: 16
Ca: 380
Mg: 1230
NH3: 0
N02: 0
N03: .5
Salinity: 1.024
I have a 24 gal.. nanocube with 7 corals, 1 anemone, 6 hermits, 2 snails, and no fish. - 104W of CF - Water changes 25%/week
25 lbs. of CaribSea live aragonite
45 lbs. Fiji and Tonga live rock
2 power. heads (Rio 50 and MiniJet w/Hydor) in addition to the one that the system comes with
The tank has been up for 7 weeks now and cycled in the first three weeks
My problem:
I cannot get the ph to 8.0, let alone 8.3, even with Kent buffer or Seachem builder, however, I have had dKH off the charts (high)
I am using Salifert test kits and have tested them with LFS water to ensure they are accurate . . . I am using an American Marine pinpoint Ph meter calibrated just one week ago and have confirmed the low ph
<Yes... most due to the "break in" processes... the decomposition of a good deal of your live rock life... the small volume, lack of a skimmer...>
Each time I use the reef builder or other buffer to increase ph, it goes up for about 4 hours and then back down, however my dKH just keeps going up (1.5 ml or 1 1/2 plungers of reagent to turn color if you are familiar with Salifert test kit making it anywhere from 16-24 dKH, guesstimate since I'm not sure if that's how it works once you go through the first plunger)
<Is how it works>
I had been using Catalina water, so I did a 15 gal. water change with Tropic Marine mixed at LFS to see if that would help.
<It will... in time>
No one at several LFS stores can figure this one out and I have tried to open up the house thinking the CO2 in the house was too high and no effect . . . I was going to get an air pump to start trying to oxygenate the tank more and see if that helps . . . just thought I would ask for some help first . . . this has been going on for 4 weeks now and is a real drag . . . corals still look good, but I'm afraid they will start to decline in time given the low ph . . . and fish or other helpful inverts, forget it.  
<... this system has been up for seven weeks... with an anemone mixed in with other stinging-celled life? Dangerous... in such a small volume>
I used to have a 60 gal but had to break it down when we moved, never had these kinds of problems, making me realize that smaller tanks are more difficult to monitor/maintain?
<Indeed they are>
HELP!
Thanks
Bill
<Due to the newness, the livestock listed, the small size of the system, I would just continue nudging the water quality along with the TM water, careful addition of just pH buffer (sans alkaline earth components)... likely something with just sodium carbonate and bicarbonate (no calcium, magnesium)... go slow here Bill... all could crash. Do add a skimmer if you haven't already... Bob Fenner>

Water parameters out of whack
Hello Crew, how you guys doing today?
<Mighty fine, thanks>
Well I decided to go back into the aquarium hobby after being away for about a year and everything had being going well until I started having some problems with my PH.
This is what happened. I filled up my 380 gallon aquarium with some Oceanic salt and let it mix in for a week, then I added some crushed coral and 200+ lbs of Live Rock. I noticed that PH was low ~ 7.7, therefore I started adding super buffer dKH and brought it up to around 8.2 but it started going back down therefore I kept adding Kent super buffer DKH until I had poured 2 pounds of Super Buffer DKH in a week's time and my PH was still hovering around 8.0 - 8.1 . Believing that my PH monitor was off I tested the PH with another test kit which showed the same result, that's when I decided to test the other parameters, which are:
<Mmm, the LR is "settling in" and you started with a bunk, inconsistent brand of salt mix>
Temp 79.4 F
SG 1.021
CA 330
PH 8.0
AK 16+ DKH Went off the Salifert Scale.
<Yes...>
WHAT in the world, how can I have a 16+ DKH and an 8.0 PH .
<Surprising that you have such a large system and lack of understanding of basic chemistry (pun intended)... look at the ingredients of the Kent products... realize you have a situation... with the decomposition of the LR... that is exhausting the carbonate/bicarbonate... but not the hardness... Voila! Low pH, high hardness>
I'm truly lost and I know I should have tested the ALK before I kept adding buffer, but I did not have an ALK test kit available and I figured hey it's a lot of water and Oceanic salt is known for having High Calcium and low PH. At this point I'm probably going to do a 80 gallon water change with Instant Ocean Salt unless you guys have other ideas.
<All sorts of ideas... yours will work.>
Thanks.
<Bob Fenner>

MarpHAlk
Hi Bob,
<Hi>
I am having trouble with raising the alkalinity in my 100 gallon saltwater tank above 2 meq/liter or increase the calcium level. This tank has a 30 gallon sump, that contains about 12 gallons of the tank
water circulating through it as part of the filtration. The filtration consists of a trickle filter in the sump, and an Aqua C EV-150 protein skimmer in the sump. Besides the circulation from the return pump (Little Giant 3-MDQX-SC (875 gph)), the tanks also has 2 Maxi-Jet MP 1200 powerheads (295 gph/each). Lighting consist of four 96W Power Compacts (2 10000K super daylights and 2 9600 Actinic), which is on timer for 12 hours light/12 hours dark. The combination of trickle filter and the protein skimmer results in a large amount of fine bubbles in the sump, with a portion of this pumped into the tank and circulated by the powerheads, so the oxygen level is very high in the tank.
The tank itself consists of 120 lbs. of Carib-Sea aragonite sand and 80 lbs. of live rock (the rock is heavily covered with coralline algae and these came from a two year old 240 gallon reef tank, so there was no measurable ammonia spike for the first 2 weeks after being added to the tank). The rocks also were covered with lots of life (worms, sponges, etc.) but also star polyps and button polyps. Brown algae appeared within 1 week of the live rock introduction. The tank is now 6 weeks old and consists of the following inhabitants:
10 blue-legged hermits
5 Turbo snails and 5 Astrea snails
12 Cerith snails
12 Nassarius snails
3 Mithrax crabs
2 Tropical abalones
9 Mushroom corals
2 small colonies of Zoanthus and 1 colony of Star polyps
1 Mushroom leather coral (Sarcophyton sp.)
2 Pajama cardinals
1 Banggai
1 Lawnmower goby
1 Pseudochromis
Assorted tubeworms, bristleworms, and other life that came with the rock
My tank water parameters are as follows:
Ammonia - 0
Nitrite - 0
Nitrate - 0 or to low to be measured by the test kit I am using |Calcium - 300
pH - 8.2 to 8.4 (8.4 is reading obtained after lights have been on for 8 hours)
spg - 1.023
Temperature - 78 - 80 degrees F
I do a water change every week, replacing 4 gallons/week with 1 week aged saltwater. Evaporated fresh water is replaced daily with bottled distilled water that I have added Seachem Reef Builder to achieving an alkalinity of 4 meq/liter in the distilled water. Additives consist of daily addition of Two Little Fishes C-Balance at 30 ml/each component and, 3 times a week, Combi-San. The fish are fed twice a day, and as I only feed them small amounts for a couple minutes, all is eaten, unless it gets under a rock or a snail/crab grabs it.
Currently, all of the life in the tanks appears to be doing good. The corals are all open, with the leather coral becoming larger and polyps fully extended and the star polyps slowly covering the rock they are on. Also, the various herbivores have been able to keep the brown algae down, to where it is primarily growing on the tank glass and sand, before being eaten. Additionally, coralline algae and animal calcareous tubes are beginning to appear on the back and sides of the aquarium glass. The protein skimmer I empty every day and clean once a week.
So my frustration is that I am not able to raise my alkalinity and my calcium is low. I have been testing it every two days and the alkalinity sits around 2 meq/liter. Should I increase the amount of Reef Builder I add to the make-up water and/or increase the amount of C-Balance? I have started to add Salifert Calcium, but I am concerned of adding to much and upsetting any balance I have in the aquarium.
<Hmm, yes... very likely the combined effects of die-off/moving/rapid regrowth of biomineralizing life... are conspiring to "use up" both alkalinity and calcium (et al alkaline earth elements) here... I would likely "goose" the system with the materials listed (or just calcium chloride and a lesser amount of calcium hydroxide by night... dropping off the chloride and adding baking soda/sodium bicarbonate later... as calcium exceeded 400ppm... but/and in essence this is what these products are... and what you will be doing by their use>
Sorry for the long winded message, but any information you can supply would be much appreciated!
Thank you,
Kevin
<No worries, and you will see results in a few days to weeks from your increased supplementing efforts... no problems with taking all this slowly at this juncture. Bob Fenner>

Unsolved pH mystery
Hi Lorenzo...
<Yikes, now it's Bob back again>
I'm hoping you can help me. My 135g FOWLR tank has been up and running for 10 days now with 7 green Chromis and 15lbs of cured live rock gradually get to 50-60 lbs). Temp. 76, Salinity 1.20 and just starting to cycle. 1.00ppm ammonia. 280 watts of VHO lighting, a Eheim canister, tidepool II wet dry and Aqua Clear 150 skimmer.
Used reef crystal salt mix and the LFS I bought tank from came out to set everything up. Told me to check temp, salinity and ammonia and not to be concerned initially with Ph as good quality mixes are generally at 8.2.
Anyways, I decided to test Ph from the get go and never got a reading that matched color options. LFS came back 5 days after set-up (in the a.m.) and he too got an erroneous reading so blamed solution and took sample back to his store, called and said it was 8.2..Told me to come get another brand of solution and this one too gave me a pale erroneous result every a.m. (very pale shade of 7.8) Took sample to another LFS this a.m. who did 2 tests and said it was 7.8 probably due to lights not having been on. Suggested I wait an hour or 2 after lights on and test again and might want to consider adding a Ph buffer. Well, tested every 2 hours and didn't get an accurate reading until 8 hours after lights came on of 8.2 using 2 different brands of solution.
<Yes... the readings were likely all accurate... that is, you were measuring what was there at the time...>
Read all the articles and FAQs on this site regarding Ph and see others have mentioned a slight variance in PH from a.m. to afternoon readings but not to the extreme that I've been encountering. Sorry for the length of this but wanted to give as much detail in order to clearly state situation. Thank
you so much. (When Bob gets back, you're surely going to need to get away ;-)
<Think that Zo is off already... working at his regular computer code-writing day jobs no doubt! At this point I wouldn't be overly concerned with the pH variance you're observing... do look into using at least sodium bicarbonate (perhaps on a weekly basis) to augment your system's alkaline reserve... Once the rock is settled in, and more life is established in your system, more of this will stabilize. Bob Fenner>

Re: unsolved Ph mystery
Dear Bob...Thanks so much regarding the Ph mystery on my new tank...all prior attempts to find info regarding cycling effects on Ph had been in vain.
Wanted to let you know that I have appointed myself president of the "Bob Fenner Fan Club" here in Michigan. <!> I'm frequently at my 3 LFS, (increasing live rock) ...and when I see that dazed look in other "newbies"...trying to decide which book to buy...I tell them your "conscientious..." is a must have...I also give them your website & after running into them at a later date...they are most impressed as am I. A sincere thank you for all that you and your cohorts there do for this wonderful hobby...it is so reassuring to know, as a final resort...that you are there. Barbara
<Thank you for "pumping me up"! Definitely important to "know what one's about" (values, focus, direction-wise) and "be on a path" of discovery and fulfillment in life... and to have such "interrator agreement" as your kind encouragement... fantastic. Bob Fenner>

pH, CO2 and Calcium Reactor
hi bob I need to ask a question
<Todd, Anthony Calfo here in your service while Bob counts how many jelly beans will fit into his navel in anticipation of a Superbowl party bet>
I use a calcium reactor on my 150 gallon tank lately the ph goes at 7.7 in the morning to7.9 high in the day
<scary low indeed>
I use a ph probe witch calibrate once a week am I getting to much co2 in the tank
<possible, but not the only explanation... aerate a glass of water from the aquarium to see if the pH rises significantly. You may simply need to have better aeration in the display (although never aerate the sump where the reactor effluent drops)... although not likely the case. If you had excess CO2 overtime you might notice an increase in nuisance microalgae growth>
and if so should I shut off the co2 let the ph rise and then continue the co2
<never make such drastic moves... good and bad things should happen slow in an aquarium. Is your effluent adjusted properly (slow drip/bubble counter coordinated?>
if I do shut the co2 off I do notice the tanks ph starts to rise I keep the reactor at 6.4 ph thank you bob Todd from new York
<another solution is to have a second reactor full of media inline to boost the pH on the outflow. Very effective and perhaps your best solution. Becoming the standard. Anthony>

High KH Low Ph 10/30/05
Hello, 
<Good day>
I am new to this website so I hope my questions has not been asked. Looked but did not find it. I have a 40 gallon reef tank. I have very high kH, low calcium levels, and PH that seems to stay close to 8.0 (use pH probe). I do have to buffer with Kent Marine pH Buffer daily to keep it at 8.0. My problem, I think stems from dosing to much Kent DKH buffer. The pet store told me to buffer the DKH daily to combat my low ph. 
Well I think that may have been bad advice. The KH got so high that I actually got hard water build up on the glass and in my filter lines. My inverts and snails turned up side down and quit moving I cleaned the filter hoses and powerheads out with vinegar and made sure that I washed it all out with fresh water. 
I then did a 15 gallon water change the snails and inverts reacted immediately they came back to life, but the KH is still off the charts and the calcium is low and I am having a real hard time maintaining the pH. My first question is, does the Kent PH buffer that I am using hurt things more then improve . I also noticed that when I did the big water change my green brain coral improved greatly. But lately it seems to be retreating again. 
I have been adding calcium daily (Tropic Marin Bio-Calcium) but it does not seem to be rising. My guess is that the High KH could be my main problem. But I am not clear if that is it. I use RO for all water changes and fresh adds. How can I get the PH and Calcium up and should I worry about the really really high KH levels. 
<First, lets not confuse KH with Dkh. KH is measuring carbonate hardness only. Don't add any more buffers to the tank. Do 10% water changes as you should be doing. Buffers should always be thoroughly mixed in freshwater before adding to the tank. You should measure your dKH with marine alkalinity test kit. After a couple weeks check your ph and dKH levels and see where they are at. Reply with the original query and we'll take it from there. You will have a difficult time maintaining calcium levels with high dKH levels. In the meantime read the info I have here. http://www.wetwebmedia.com/alkalinity.htm  James (Salty Dog)>
Thanks for your help 
<You're welcome> 

Problems with High pH
Dear Bob,
<<JasonC here filling in for Bob while he is away diving.>>
I installed a 180 gal. reef tank 3 weeks ago with Iwaki pump, gigantic skimmer, K2R Ca reactor ,,Co2 reg, etc. with 200 lbs. cured rock, 120 lbs. live sand with detritus form previous tank. Filled it up with hard tap water from Newport Beach and Amquelled it. Ph was above 8.6 at the time. Started up everything and it cycled in about 5 days. Have 5 healthy fish and some soft corals...all doing fine. Problem is I can't get ph down. It vacillates between 9.1 in a.m. to 9.5 at peak light period. <<that is high>> Effluent ph is 6.8 and everything "should" be working correctly. <<hmmm... perhaps too early for calk-reacting, need things to settle a bit.>> Would you recommend I buffer the water (if so, with what?) or let it come down "naturally"?? <<I would get to work on that immediately - use Arm & Hammer baking soda - works wonders. Somehow, I think your buffering capacity is off... the Sodium Bicarb will help this. Use the Google Search feature on WWM to look as there are many FAQ's about the use/methods of baking soda. >>
Thanks,
Doug
<<Cheers, J -- >>

High pH 10/30/05
I have a small reef tank (40 gallons) with two fish (clown and tang) and about 5 soft corals. I have about 40 lbs of live rock and 2 inches of live sand. Based on your recommendations I have an Aqua C Remora skimmer. When I decided to add the corals (about 5 months ago), I added live sand (to bring it to the total above) and 200 watts of compact fluorescent lighting. I have had generally good luck since then - no fish or coral problems, but my PH runs very high. At first I thought it was the water I was adding and I found a bottled water that has very low pH and have been using it ever since. I have resorted to using pH down products and after I use them the water ranges from 8.0 to 8.3 for a day or two, then goes higher (sometimes 8.8 or so when the lights are on). This pattern is consistent and, although I've found numerous conversations about people with low PH on your site, I can't seem to find much about the opposite problem.
As I say, I haven't killed anything yet, but when I see one of the corals looking stressed, I check the PH and sure enough it is high. Does this perhaps have something to do with Alkalinity that I do not clearly understand. I'd like to get it under control. 
<Jeff, it is very unusual to have high pH in a marine system. pH is generally higher during the day and slightly lower after the lights are off. For starters I would try a different test kit. Also, when taking the water sample for the test, take it from mid level in the tank. I'm also wondering what your dKH reading is. James (Salty Dog)>