Faulty ORP Readings/Copperband for Aiptasia Control - 10/31/06
Hello, and thank you for all the information you provide.
<<Howdy, and you’re quite welcome...is a synergetic effort>>
I have a 125 gallon saltwater reef tank and I am trying to get the Aiptasia under control as well as increase the quality of life for the species I already have.  From my research, I felt that I would try the peppermint shrimp as a way to get the Aiptasia under control and also look at why I have them.
<<Mmm...peppermint shrimp are less than reliable controls for Aiptasia anemones, and best utilized “en masse” re which then leaves you with the problem of what to do with all the shrimp once they’ve completed their intended purpose...not to mention the expense of obtaining several dozen peppermint shrimp>>
I read that the 6-line wrasse could eat them so I moved the wrasse to a fish only tank where he is doing fine.  The next day all 3 peppermint shrimp were gone.
<<Hmm...though I doubt three shrimp would have had much impact...at least not for a very long while (assuming they would eat the anemones to begin with)>>
I watched my sailfin tang and it did not seem interested in them.  I only have fire fish, clowns, and an algae eating goby type fish.
<<Mmm...how large is this “goby?”>>
With this trail ending in failure, I would like to try a copperband butterfly.
<<Not easily kept...and also no guarantee it will take to the Aiptasia any better than peppermint shrimp>>
I read that they are difficult to keep.
<<Ah yes>>
I want to make sure that my tank conditions are up to standard before I purchase one.  I use the Aquacontroller Pro to monitor the conductivity, pH, ORP, and temp.  The temperature ranges from 74-78 degrees.  The pH is at 8.28 but does fluctuate from 7.99 to 8.28 within a 24 hour period.  The ORP is the strange reading because I show 572 through 678 in a 24 hour period.
<<I think this is likely not an accurate reading.  ORP readings this high would certainly have a deleterious affect on your system>>
I test for nitrite, nitrate, and ammonia and they always test at or 0 or very close to the lowest scale on the chart.
<<Ammonia/nitrite should “always” be ‘zero’.  Do make sure you have fresh/reliable test kits>>
I took a water sample to the fish store and he confirmed my readings.  He also tested for phosphate and said it was minimal.
<<Whatever his definition of “minimal” is...>>
The alkalinity was acceptable but the calcium was low.  I tested the ORP in my filtered tap water through the Kold-Ster-il unit and the ORP showed 100.  I tested the ORP of the tap water with the salt in a bucket and when agitated with the power head would reach up to 180.  I tested the ORP in my fish only tank and it reads 174.  I do not use ozone at all.  I add the alkalinity supplement every other day and then the calcium supplement on the opposite days of the alkalinity supplement.  I contacted Neptune systems and he said the probe and controller are probably correct and working as they should.
<<I disagree...an ORP reading of 678 in your reef tank would definitely be mal-affecting your livestock.  Anything over about 450 starts to become dangerous to your tank inhabitants.  You need to obtain a calibration solution and check the probe’s accuracy yourself>>
I use a sump with an AquaC 180 protein skimmer and this works well.
<<A good skimmer line>>
I tested the returns and the water flow is 600 gallons per hour.  I do get some green algae growth in the tank but only enough to clean off of the front glass every few days.  What could cause the ORP to be so elevated without adding ozone?
<<Ozone injection is not the only way to raise ORP (increased water flow or adding “oxidizers” such as iodine can raise ORP levels), but I think in this instance the culprit is a faulty ORP meter/probe>>
Do you think the water quality is acceptable for a copperband butterfly with the ORP reading so high?
<<I don’t think the ORP is an issue, as I don’t think the reading is accurate/that there is any hazard if you are not injecting ozone in this system.  But being successful with the Copperband involves more than good water quality.  You need to have adequate live rock in a “mature” system (preferably augmented with a vegetable refugium) to provide grazing/browsing opportunities for the butterfly.  You also need to find a healthy specimen that is feeding on frozen foods as getting them to eat is a common problem. Once you have an “eating” fish, pay attention that it gets its share. These fish are designed for/adapted to browsing the reef for food and don’t compete well with most other fishes when the hobbyist dumps in a meal...they even have trouble seeing/finding foods that are swept along in the current.  Most will eventually learn that they need to “be on the ball” at feeding time, but they will still have problems with the quicker and more agile fishes beating them to the food>>
Before purchasing a copperband, like my other fish, I will find one that has been in the store for at least 2 weeks and that is feeding.
<<It will behoove you to set up a quarantine tank for this (all) fish to ensure that it is still feeding (without competition) once you bring it home.  I have witnessed on more than one occasion where this fish stopped feeding after the stress of capture/relocation from the LFS>>
Thank you everyone for the time you dedicate to helping me as well as many others.
Darrell
<<Is our pleasure to assist.  EricR>>

Applying Ozone...Venturi or Not? - 10/01/06
Dear Crew,
<<Hello Rafiq>>
Thanks for a great service, I would probably be poorer and animal heaven more crowded without it!
<<Indeed my friend...is our hope/purpose to enlighten/educate...and thusly prevent needless misery/save lives...>>
I recently purchased a 500mg/hr ozonizer and ORP controller,
<<Big unit>>
I was planning to add the ozone to a PVC, DIY recirculating,
venturi type skimmer by drilling a small hole at the top body of the skimmer and dropping in an airstone or limewood (is that what those 'woodstones' are called?) into the skimmer reaction chamber.
<<Limewood supposedly makes the "best" wooden airstones...Basswood does a good job as well in my opinion, and is more readily available (in my experience) if you want to make your own stones>>
Is this a correct/reliable method of applying ozone to my aquarium?
<<Yes...I prefer to apply ozone through a skimmer.  But you would do well to merely attach the ozonizer to the venturi and let it "draw" the ozone from the unit>>
I have considered attaching the ozonizer directly to the venturi but I get the idea that the venturi draws air at a rate far higher than the ozonizer can generate.  Is this a valid concern?
<<Not in my opinion.  The venturi will draw the available ozone as it is generated...how fast it generates opposed to how much air the venturi draws need not be a concern>>
Will both methods work?
<<Probably>>
Is one better than the other?
<<I prefer the "venturi" method>>
Kind Regards,
Rafiq van Greuning
JHB, ZA
<<Cheers my friend.  Eric Russell...SC, USA>>

High ORP Levels  - 09/07/06
Hi Guys,
<Hello Scott>
I'm worried about my high ORP levels.  Here is a breakdown of my multi-tank system: 375 liter main tank, 220l frag tank, 300l refugium w/ DSB & Chaeto (reverse daylight photoperiod) & 90l sump.  Lighting consists of 150W 10,000K DE MH's and T5's.  Circulation is moderate to strong provided by SEIO & Tunze Stream Pumps.  Other equipment consists of a Skimmer (AquaC EV-240), Calcium Reactor, Kalkwasser Reactor & Chiller.  Livestock are mainly SPS's & Clams with some fish.  The tank has been running for only 10 months but was an upgrade form a smaller system.  Here are my tank parameters:
            pH        -           8.23 to 8.33
            Temp    -           26-27 Deg C
            Alk       -           9dKH
            Ca        -           380
The tank's inhabitants are doing well.  I've recently been dosing ozone with a 300mg/h ozone generator hooked up to an air dryer & controller.  The ozone is pumped through my skimmer in the sump.  I continuously run 800ml carbon split into 4 mesh bags running along the whole length of my first sump baffle which is just after my skimmer compartment.  I normally change 1/4 of the carbon every week when I do my weekly 60 liter water changes.
When I first got my equipment to dose ozone I wanted to target a level of about 375 to start off with and then take things from there.  I monitored my ozone for over a month before trying to dose and found that at times my levels would peak at 375.  So I figured that with my levels being what they were I should rather target around 425.  I rigged up the ozone and adjusted the controller to switch off the ozone generator at 430.  My ORP levels did hit the 430 mark about 3 weeks ago.  Just to be safe I unplugged the ozone generator.  The problem is that since then my ORP levels have been rising steadily.  This morning I found my ozone peaked at 456 before lights on.
The only time I find my ORP levels drop, other than the usual slight drop during the day, is when I do a water change but it comes back to it's original levels and then some in just over 2 days.
I'm starting to get pretty worried.  I hope you guys can point me in the right direction.
<Scott, I think the first thing I would do is clean the probe, then check the ORP.  If still high, try recalibrating the unit.  Be sure the probe is not placed near air bubbles and powerheads.  The inductive field near powerheads may affect the reading.  James (Salty Dog)>
Thanks
<You're welcome.  James (Salty Dog)>
Scott

Cukes (comp.) and ORP  9/6/06
Bob,
<Scott>
The ORP in my 1300g tank is now hitting 500 at its peak in the night.
<Mmm... too high...>
All fish, corals and other inverts seem unaffected, if not ridiculously healthy.  Should I be concerned or tanking any sort of action to lower it?  I'm not running ozone.
<... odd... I'd "check your checker" here first... Likely this is off>
Also I was wondering if in your opinion (or experience) an Australian Sea Apple would be capable of catastrophically polluting that volume of water if it died.  Thanks!
<Oh yes... Have seen these take out entire stores (thousands of gallons) on collectively plumbed holding systems. Bob Fenner>
Scott

Ozone Usage/Amounts...Iodine Supplementation - 08/30/06
Dear Bob,
<<EricR here>>
I have a 180g FOWLR.  1 large Emp angel, 1 large majestic, 1 Foxface, 1 Heniochus butterfly, 4 skunk cleaner shrimp. 2 perculas, 1 macaroon, 1 blue damsel, 1 goby, hermits and snails.  The system has been up for 1 year and doing fabulous.  I have 2 wet-dries and use bioballs for media.  2 sump located skimmers AquaC EV-180 and Euroreef RS 130,
<<Good skimmers...some authors recommend using multiple skimmers of differing design to optimize the efficiencies re>>
One UV 55-watt Aqua UV.  10% water change weekly.  I have started using ozone injected thru the JG fitting of the AquaC and the results are visible: crystal clear water.
<<Indeed!  I find ozone to be more efficient than carbon is this respect>>
I note that AquaC recommends 50-100 mg/hr of ozone but not more since skimmate production deceases with higher amounts.
<<Mmm, yes...and I have read some debate on whether this is desirable or not.  Some speculate breaking down the organic molecules with ozone makes the skimmer less efficient...some speculate breaking down the molecules make the organics more readily available to assimilation by the corals...some say "what the heck", the skimmer is still as "efficient" as it ever was (just has less to skim), the corals "may" be finding more food (just be aware nuisance alga too will have more fuel), so if nothing is being malaffected what is the concern?  I tend to fall in to the latter category
I have a Red Sea 200mg/hr ozonizer with integrated controller.  Tank ORP is 315-320mV during the day and rises to 340mV just before the lights go on in the AM.
<<Sounds about "ideal" to me>>
I have been using 175 mg/hr of ozone in this tank.  At this level the amount of skimmate has gone down from both skimmers.
<<I have experienced this phenomenon as well>>
The ECV-180 has 275 gal/hr flow rate and the Euroreef system has 180 gal/hr rate.
Would you recommend that I go to AquaC's recommended 50 mg/hr?
<<Based on your ORP readings and the fact you don't mention any deleterious happenings re, no, I would not drop the production rate that low>>
Is it absolutely necessary that the skimmer effluent be carbon filtered?
<<No...the amount/concentration of ozone produced by these hobbyists units is easily burned-up in/blown-off by the skimmer>>
Would using higher doses of ozone oxidize Iodine or other elements to the point of detriment where HLLE may be a concern?
<<Addition of Iodine with water changes is recommended...else test/dose as needed>>
Thanks, Have a nice day.
<<Same to you my friend>>
Jimmy
<<Regards, EricR>>

Big Tank, Water Quality/LR, Ozone, Curing LR    8/13/06
I am curing around 1500 lbs of rock in about 1200 gallons of water.
<Mmm, a note for browsers... such large amounts of LR can be cured "in place" in large systems, but I encourage this elsewhere... much easier to manipulate, much less messy/stinky>
There's about 40,000 gph of water movement. I've got two AquaC skimmers rated for up to 1000 gallons cranking overtime (with ozone on when the ORP drops below 390 and off at 400).
<Rather a "tight" setting... I'd move the lower value down to the 350 or so range>
  I scrubbed it all pretty good before I put it in, but have only done minor incidental water changes (leaky plumbing and VERY aggressive skimming).
Its been almost two weeks since I first introduced the rock. Nitrites are around 4.0 ppm,
<Too high>
nitrates are around 20 ppm
<Way too high... these values spell the doom for too much of the "live" portion of your rock. Should be kept down...>
(both have seen a huge decline in the past few days. The pH has been staying high - ranging from 8.1 - 8.6.
<This is the ozone, not biomineral effect>
My real query is about my ORP. Until this tank I've never had the equipment to monitor or regulate my ORP before. Its currently at 419 and still on the rise from what I can tell.
<... too high...>
Honestly I don't think I fully understand the concept from reading the article on the site, but from various Q and A's on the site I gather that this is not that big of a deal as long as its not ozone that's raising it that high (which it's not in this case - at least not from the ozonizers).
<... Really? What is "it" from? Have you tried turning off the ozonation?>
My water is still quite yellow however, despite running carbon and PolyFilters and ozone off and on.
<Massive die-off effect>
Due to the location of the tank it would ideal if we could expedite the un-yellowing of the tank. Thanks for your help, Scott
Sent via Blackberry from T-Mobile  ²[%
<Neat... Well... to start with, though it may seem expensive, I would make a very large water change here... perhaps half... Next, I would carefully (like two separate test kits) measure alkalinity/acidity, and look into the means (there are a few... and this can be confusing for sure) of bolstering the same... with a source of carbonates and bicarbonates. I would look into your calcium, magnesium concentrations as well... these are likely out of whack, and relying on the water changes alone will too-likely drive you bonkers as well as to the poor house... When you have occasion/time, do take a read over WWM re the concepts of alkalinity, this and pH... the use of supplements for same. Bob Fenner>

Ozone and Ocean Clear Carbon Reef Tank, carbon...    8/13/06
We have a 250 gallon reef and are planning to use a small amount of ozone - 25-50mg through a reactor at a 300 gph flow rate.  I was paranoid about any ozone getting in the tank (especially with bulkheads in the bottom of the tank), so I purchased a used Ocean Clear Carbon canister filter to pass the water through before returning to the tank.  Now I'm not sure if it was the right thing to do (haven't installed yet).  It holds 7 lbs of carbon.
<Yeeikes! An unnecessary expense I assure you>
  Will a canister be okay to use in this case even though it is a reef tank (tank is a DSB Acro tank with zero nitrates)?
<Would be fine, just not needed>
If so, is 7 lbs of carbon okay or too much?
<Depends on quality mostly... I would not start with this much material... perhaps a pound or two>
  How long can we go between carbon changes - I'm assuming if it is okay to use it would become a bio filter after a few weeks?
<Mmm, yes... and progressively more so over time... I'd switch out a pound or so per month (best to use a pre-bagged product... like Chemipure, or get Dacron "purse string" bags and make your own...>
  If it is not okay to use, what is the difference between the canister carbon filters and carbon reactors?
  Thanks!
  Doug
<Can be little or great difference in cost, capacity, absorbency... See WWM: http://www.wetwebmedia.com/carbonfaqs.htm
and the linked files above. I myself would not worry re the ozone here... this amount will "be gone/disappear" in reaction almost immediately. Bob Fenner>

Ozone Generator Overkill? - 06/06/06
Hi WWM crew,
<<Howdy Steve!>>
After looking at WWM and reading Bob Fenner's book, I have bought a Pinpoint ORP controller and an ozone generator.
<<Cool!>>
I will install them in the next day.  After, reading at some of the FAQ, I started to be afraid that I may have bought a generator that is too big for my tank.
<<Not a concern if used in conjunction with the controller>>
The generator is a 200mg/hr and my tank is a 65 gal with a 25 gal sump.
<<Mmm yes, the generator is likely larger than you need...but will be fine used with the controller>>
I plan to use it with my Bullet-1 from Precision Marine.
<<Good product, quality materials...should work fine>>
Is my generator too big for my tank?
<<You could have gotten by with one half the size...probably>>
Will it be dangerous for me or my tank?
<<No, not if used with the controller>>
If so, would it be ok if I would only put it on few hours a day?
<<Not necessary...the controller will turn off the generator at a certain set-point (350mv is a good starting point)>>
Just another question!!
<<Okay>>
Every how much time should I change the carbon at the exit of the skimmer and how much should I use?
<<Mmm, small concern here (I don't use any for this purpose myself), but If you prefer, a cup or so replaced bi-weekly should suffice>>
Thank you very much for your help!!
<<Quite welcome>>
P.S. I would not have a marine set-up If not for this website and the books written by Calfo or Fenner!!
Steve
<<Much good/helpful information indeed!  Regards, EricR>>

Use Ozonizer Without a Controller?...Not Recommended - 06/04/06
Hi,
<<Howdy!>>
Thank you very much for your article on ozonizers.  It has helped me understand the reason for using them + why we have to be very careful in the process.
<<We're happy you found it useful>>
With all this extra input, I still have concerns re the use of my ozonizer in a 240ltr tank.
<<Hmm...let's find out why...>>
The ozonizer I have is the Hailea 810 on which you can't control the output?
<<For clarification (and for our readers on this side of the "pond") we're talking about a 200mg/h ozone generator on an approximately 63 gallon (US) tank>>
I was hoping to have this on a timer + split the cycles into two or four cycles per day, but wondered if this is a viable option.
<<I wouldn't try this, 200mg/h "should" be more than a tank this size needs/can safely utilize.  This ozonizer can be used...but I wouldn't do it without a controller to prevent overdosing the tank>>
I would prefer not to start spending more money on an ORP reader when it might just be easier to obtain a different ozonizer?.
<<Mmm, is about the same isn't it?...still money spent!>>
At the moment my set up is new [just two days old] and obviously I want to have the ozonizer system clear in my head as well as the tank before introducing any fish.  I hope you can help me in this matter
<<Looks to me like you're gonna have to spend money either way...to buy a controller for the ozonizer you currently have...or to buy another ozonizer with an "integrated" controller.  The choice is yours to make but I would pick the first option, preferring to have separate components>>
Many thanks in advance
Sheldon
<<Welcome, EricR>>

Aqua C and ozone  5/29/06
Good day,
<Mark>
First, I would like to thank all of you for your wonderful support you give to people like me. Your answers have helped me out tremendously. I will try to keep this simple (I hope). I have a 75 gallon reef with a tidepool 2 sump, a refugium, Eheim pro and both the rainbow mechanical and chemical filter. I had added the Aqua C remora pro per the countless recommendations from other hobbyists. I would like to add an ozonizer to my system, however upon e-mailing Jason and his group the protein skimmer is not set-up for ozone systems. Do you know a way to "rig this" safely? I really do not want to give this skimmer up. Thanks, and sorry this was long.
Mark
<http://www.google.com/custom?q=Aqua+C+and+ozone&sitesearch=wetwebmedia.com
The above from putting your subject/title in Google... Bob Fenner>

Huge ICH problem - control by Ozone? Mmm, nope  - 05/13/2006
Hi guys,
<And some XX's...>
This is the first time I have emailed you guys, as have spent ages reading the great amount of information on your site. What's stopped me?
<Don't know>
Well, I realize that you're busy, but this I couldn't keep to myself - it's distressing my fish (and killing them) and upsetting me, even the cat seems saddened by our misfortune.
<Yes>
I have a 240 litre reef with 40kg of live rock, MCE600, rowfos fluidizer, Eheim wet and dry, a UV filter and will soon be adding Ozone, monitored to the MCE600. The stock in the tank is as follows:
6 common clowns.
1 baby tang and a larger one.
4 shrimp (cleaner).
Bristle star fish (I think that's what it's called!)
Red Star fish.
Snails and hermits.
Recently I added a powder blue
<Tang? This system is too small for an Acanthurus leucosternon>
and didn't notice till I got back from a business trip, that it had Ich.
<Yikes... no quarantine?>
By the time I could get some treatment the next day it had died. Ich has now spread throughout the tank and we've lost
3 clowns already. I have tried one of the shelf treatment ' ESHA Oodinex  ' but the Ich is still there, but not as prevalent.
<... your system is infested>
I realize that my UV setup is working as well as it could and will soon have more flow running from the Eheim back to the tank, as previously it was working on a separate pump that works the Rowa-phos fluidizer.
Will adding Ozone to the skimmer help in stopping Ich?
<Nope>
I appreciate your help. Many thanks in advance.
Stu
<Uhh... not so fast... Please read here: http://wetwebmedia.com/ichart2mar.htm
and the linked files above... formulate a plan... and act... quickly... to eliminate this parasite from your system. Bob Fenner>

Ozone/Skimmate Reduction - 05/02/06
Hey guys (and gals, I remembered this time!)
<<Yea!>>
I recently started running ozone through my Deltec MCE 600 skimmer, and I'm using it to keep redox around 350mV (the difference it's made to the tank is huge, it's great).  The problem is that my MCE 600 is now hardly producing any skimmate at all, it produces a little for the first hour or so after cleaning the cup but after that there's nothing.
<<Hmm...>>
I'm also putting a bit much ozone through the skimmer for its design limit, I reckon about 40-50mg/h.
<<Doesn't seem excessive to me>>
This has led me to think about getting a bigger skimmer.
<<Is an option>>
My tank is roughly 180 US gallons and contains the following:
260 lbs of live rock
1 Powder blue tang
1 Naso tang (they get along quite well, feed from the same clip etc..)
1 Klein's butterflyfish
1 Bicolour angel
2 Maroon clowns
1 False percula clown
1 Bicolour blenny
1 convict worm goby
Will upgrading to a bigger skimmer help the issue?
<<Possibly, yes...or "retuning" your current skimmer (if you haven't tried already)>>
I'm used to seeing lots of skimmate and it worries me when I see none!
<<A reduction is not uncommon, but you should still be collecting skimmate>>
I've made sure the air intakes to the skimmer aren’t restricted in any way.
<<An air dryer will cause a restriction...or using tubing smaller in diameter than what was supplied with the skimmer pump>>
My redox was LOW before I added the ozone, around 170mV.  All other levels are immeasurable, besides nitrate which has been dropping since the addition of ozone (was ~20ppm).
<<Excellent...burning up the nitrogenous waste>>
The skimmers I'm considering (I have limited height under my tank) are the Deltec APF 600 that apparently uses 600 litres of air an hour, and the Tunze DOC 9020, which uses 1300 litres of air an hour, which, in your opinion, would be best suited to my tank?
<<Both manufacturers enjoy excellent reputations.  The Deltec is probably the closest "fit" between the two>>
I only keep soft corals at the moment, but want to start keeping hard corals too.
<<Don't discount the need for a skimmer with "soft" corals...most release very noxious elements in to the water>>
Oh, and the ozone seems to build up in my room and causes the odd headache, will running the air from the skimmer through activated carbon help that?
<<Mmm, surprising the small amount you say you're using would cause this...but yes, carbon will help with residual ozone...you can also place it in the path of the water exiting the skimmer.>>
Thanks again,
Ross
<<Quite welcome, EricR>>

Sharing a Perspective - re Ozone, skimmer op.  05/04/06
Hi Eric,
<<Hello Andy>>
I read your reply to Ross, about ozone use, on 2nd May.  I had a similar sized tank, was running ozone and upgraded from the Deltec MCE600 to the APF600, and feel I may be able to add to the good advice you offered Ross.
<<Ahh, excellent!>>
I hope you don't mind.
<<Not at all...will post for all to see/share...and hope you don't mind in kind if I throw in a comment where I get the urge...>>
The use of Ozone is highly beneficial, but often delivered at too high a rate.  When ozone is first introduced to a tank it may take a few days or weeks to break down the waste products that have accumulated in the tank environment.
<<Mmm, in their entirety maybe (though new "waste" is being generated all the time), but ozone is highly reactive/its effect is immediate...as I'm sure you are aware>>
However, once that initial spring clean is complete the rate of ozone should be reduced - especially if the owner has a strong maintenance schedule (water changes, not over stocked, not over-feeding, etc, etc).  The lack of skimmate (and nitrate) is an indicator that the ozone is being over-applied (organics being burned up long before they can get to the skimmer cup).  I would recommend reducing the ozone rate to 10mg/h, allowing the water to get a slight yellow colour once again (best to assess this at water change time); at each water change assess the tank water colour - if yellow: increase the ozone rate by 5mg/h, if blue: (associated with a tank aerated with ozone) you have reached a nice compromise between getting the benefits of the ozone, while minimizing the unwanted effects (smell and risk of overdose).
<<With most units available to hobbyists here in the states, overdose is of small concern on all but the smallest of tanks>>
I suspect Ross may only need to deliver ozone at half the current rate.
<<Is a possibility...though I don't consider 40-50 mg/h to be "excessive" on a 180 gallon tank...>>
In terms of the MCE600 to APF600 upgrade, it is an improvement but only a small one.  I got perhaps a 20% increase in skimmate from one to the other.  For me, the major benefits included a much bigger collect cup, and hiding away the skimmer with a sump (the hang-on MCE couldn't fit in the gap above the sump, but the APF just sat outside the sump cupboard).  From a chemistry perspective, the amount of ozone being generated by these units cannot accumulate in an average home room.
<<Agreed...and my point/surprise at Ross's comment re>>
Ozone is so reactive that it will always quickly (seconds) find something to react with, preventing build-up.  The smell is actually a by-product of the ozone reaction with various materials.  Reducing the amount of ozone to the minimum necessary to achieve the desire results will minimize the smell - but not remove it completely.  The headaches Ross is suffering could be the irritation of the ozone by-product (not in itself harmful, just unpleasant).  I tried to reduce this smell by placing carbon on the air vents of the skimmer, but found it stopped removing the smell after a few days due to humidity saturating the carbon surface.
<<Indeed, many folks don't realize how quickly carbon can/will become "saturated" with impurities...can be from minutes to days depending on quality...the same holding true for the carbon used for our water/tank filtration>>
I never could find a satisfactory way to add carbon to these skimmers.
<<A few manufacturers have tried to incorporate "chambers" for such...but most, including these so called "top of the line" skimmers (Deltec, Euro Reef, etc.) don't bother.  But I haven't really found a need for it either...in my experience>>
There are a few skimmers on the market with large carbon cups that sit on top of the skimmer cup - these may reduce the smell for longer, but many are not top rated skimmers.
<<Mmm...guess I should be reading ahead <grin> >>
One solution would be continuing to use the MCE600 as his primary skimmer (it has a fabulous performance for its size), and install a new skimmer, with a built-in carbon cup, as a dedicated ozone delivery device.  Best of both worlds, and I suspect the carbon cup skimmer may be cheaper than the APF600.
<<The ones I've seen are!>>
That said, even with a large carbon cup, my own experience says, the carbon surface will become saturated from the humidity, and the ozone by-product smell will return.
<<I wouldn't think the moisture alone in the air (humidity) would have a "saturation" effect on the carbon, else placing it in our tanks would render it useless immediately...but I do agree the impurities in the air exiting the skimmer would have a very rapid effect>>
There is no substitute for minimizing ozone delivery to the minimum necessary to achieve your results.  I hope this helps.  I wrestled with the same issues for months, tried everything my LFS and I could think of, and ultimately couldn't find a perfect answer.
<<Is there such a thing? <G> >>
Eventually I was seduced by the "natural side" (rather than the dark side) replacing pretty much all the technology (except the skimmer) with a natural system (refugium the same size as the display, deep sand bed, micro algae, lots of live rock and Tunze stream circulation on the display) - the result was a level of filtration, stability and simplicity that technology (ozone included) could not provide.
<<Am much in agreement with this/your approach and use something very similar myself...but still I believe most any system can benefit from the application of ozone>>
It is ironic that I wasted thousands of pounds on technology, before coming to realize that nature already provides the best available solution (and for half the ultimate cost)!
All the best,
Andy
<<Andy, thank you for sharing.  Kind regards, Eric Russell>>

Change in Skimmate from Ozone Use - 04/28/06
Hi guys! <<and gals!>> Hope all is well!
<<Yes, thank you>>
I emailed a while back when I was moving from a 50 gal tank to a 180, glad to say it all went far better than expected (besides my Powder Blue stressing himself out and getting a tiny amount of white spot... I was expecting that and it cleared up by itself, close on to a year I've had him now).
<<Mmm, difficult specie to keep long term...I wish you continued good luck>>
Anyhow, enough of my ramblings and to the point!  I recently added a Sanders 100 ozonizer.
<<Good product>>
At the moment it's putting around 25mg/h of ozone into my skimmer (Deltec MCE600 - which seems to be handling the large tank quite well, although I'm considering an upgrade if I get more stock in the future).
<<Indeed>>
I run the overflow of the skimmer into a gallon glass container, otherwise I'm emptying it twice a day (or I was, until I added the
ozone).  Therein lies the question... since adding the ozone I was
expecting a small decrease in the concentration of skimmate (slightly less dark) but in the same quantities.  I hardly get any skimmate during the day now, but overnight I seem to get a lot, though nowhere near as much as I used to.  The only other change to the tank has been the addition of four assorted soft corals over a period of a couple of months.
<<Should not have an affect on what you are seeing here>>
My skimmer's clean and running as well as it ever has, is this simply down to some of the organics the skimmer would normally remove being oxidized?
<<Is due to this (in part at least), yes.  Another contributor may be the addition of the ozonizer is restricting air flow to the skimmer pump...perhaps larger diameter tubing will help...or a larger skimmer>>
I wasn't expecting such a difference with such a small amount of ozone.
<<The ozone itself would likely have less "obvious" affect on a skimmer with a larger reaction chamber, but I wouldn't be concerned.  Just try to readjust the skimmer for optimum skimmate>>
Thanks again guys,
Ross Cranford
<<Happy to help, Eric Russell>>
P.S. I have a pair of maroon clownfish, the female has taken to a bubble anemone that I added just a day ago and she won't let the male near it, is that normal?
<<Yes, will likely "ease up" in a while>>
P.P.S. Is Bob's book published in the UK?  I'm after a copy but can't seem to find it!
<<Mmm, would think so...Bob?  You can also order it from Amazon.com.  EricR>> <Think it can be had via Amazon UK, yes. RMF>

Ozone Application - 04/27/06
I am having trouble finding reliable ozone advice.
<<Let's see if I can help>>
My setup is a 180g display heavily stocked.  100g sump, 20g fuge, 50g grow out tank, so 350g total.
<<Ok>>
1. How many mg/hr should I get?  I like to over-buy when possible for future upgrading, would 300mg/hr be enough?
<<I believe so, yes.  Differences between systems other than just "size" would ultimately determine need, but I have a very high quality (Ozotech) 250mg/hr ozone generator on my heavily stocked 500g system (375g display, 75g sump, 55g refugium) and I don't run it "wide open">>
2. How do I connect the output of the ozonizer to my ASM G6 skimmer?
<<Most ozonizers will come with instructions/adapters for such...is a simple matter in this case to hook the ozone output tubing to the air intake tubing on the skimmer pump>>
3. I will have an ORP controller, where does the probe go?
<<Somewhere distal to the skimmer effluent.  I have mine mounted through the top panel of my display tank>>
This will turn the ozonizers production on and off to keep ORP at a desired level?
<<Won't "keep" it a set level per se, but will turn off the generator when/if the ozone reaches a certain set-point.  REDOX levels will fluctuate throughout the day based on many factors (oxygen levels, lighting, presence of organic matter <feeding>, etc)>>
So does it matter if the mg/hr is too high for now?
<<The controller will keep you from "overdosing" your tank, yes...if set correctly>>
4. With 300mg/hr is carbon really needed?
<<Some debate here I suppose, some folks feel the skimmers used by/available to hobbyists are not powerful enough to be of concern.  I don't use carbon to filter the effluent from my skimmer, but when the generator is set to maximum production I do notice a reduction in micro fauna in my sump.  It would be a simple matter to place a bag of carbon under the skimmer effluent if you have any concerns re residual ozone>>
5. If I buy a unit without a dryer, can it be added later?
<<Yes>>
Thanks for your help,
Rory
<<A pleasure.  Regards EricR>>

Ozone  problems ... Toxic Water "Disease", Synthetic Salt Mix Use, Ozone Use...  - 04/25/06
Hi,
<Greg>
I have a small undersized ozone generator on my reef system of 300 gallons (30mg/hr max). Here's the link to the generator...
http://www.aquaticeco.com/index.cfm/fuseaction/product.detail/iid/7945/cid/1966
<Good company>
I should also mention that the age and wear/tear of the generator is unknown. It was given to me by a aquaculture research facility. The room they took it out of was very humid and my gut feeling was that this generator has some build up inside.
<Can be tested... just running some air through, into a water sample should raise the pH discernibly...>
I do not run an air dryer. The ozone goes into my skimmer and the outflow pour into carbon. The ORP reading peaks at about 350.
<Might be working...>
After about 2 weeks of running ozone my LPSs corals start to die.
<... not from ozone>
The flesh begins pulling off the skeleton. My Tri color Acropora starts to bleach out. My mushrooms start to shrivel up. Feather dusters pop there tops and begin dying. Fish start showing signs of ill health (black blotches, ick)
My red sea O3 residual test kit reads "safe". This can't be caused by a sudden light increase because It effects feather dusters in the shadows as well as fish. Carbon is fresh and plentiful (about 8 oz).
<Thirty milligrams per hour going into a skimmer, or even directly into the tank is not at all likely to create troubles>
After 1 week of stopping ozone, things slowly begin to improve in health. Acro stops bleaching, LPS stop reseeding, etc.
1 month of no ozone things stabilized so I started it back up again and experienced problems all over again which confirmed it was ozone related.
The feather dusters actually died and most of my fish are now sick.
<Bizarre... and frightening... I can't think of what a small corona-discharge unit like this might be doing to produce such negative effect>
My best guest at this point is by-products from the ozone. Possibly caused by the ozone generator itself or maybe some weird chemical reactions with my salt (here's my salt...
http://www.aquariumsupplystore.com/Productspages/marine_enterprises_int.htm
Interesting break down of salt mixes including mine...
http://www.advancedaquarist.com/2005/11/aafeature1
<Interesting speculation>
Thank you for your consideration,
Greg
<Thank you for sharing this. Am archiving under Toxic Water "Disease", Synthetic Salt Mix Use, Ozone Use... and sending, sharing with Mike del Prete, Ron Shimek. Bob Fenner>

Ozone Delivery - 04/06/06
Dear Bob,
<<EricR here tonight.>>   
After doing some research on how to improve the quality of water in my reef tank, I've come to the conclusion that introducing  ozone into the system is the way to go.
<<A useful tool yes, I employ it myself...but is not a panacea.  I'm not trying to discourage you, just wanting to set realistic expectations.>>
After reading the many FAQs on this subject, and how it is best to introduce ozone through the protein skimmer.
<<There's no argument that many, many people (including myself) use this method of employment, but this may well 'not' be the best method for employing ozone to gain the most efficiency/safety.>>
Here is the problem.  I have an AquaC Remora protein skimmer, the instructions say that this skimmer was not designed for use with ozone.
<<Then best you don't.>>
What my question is, does this mean I have to go with UV sterilization, or is there another effective way of introducing ozone into the system without using the skimmer???
<<Other methods?...indeed my friend.  Do a Google search for 'ozone reactor' on the Net...DIY plans about as well.>>
Thanks,
Angelo
<<You're welcome, EricR>>