Tang families (sic, genera) and tank size   2/19/08
Mr Fenner,
I would first like to note that I have read several of your online publications recently and found the detail to be of great value. Thank you for your efforts in relaying information to marine hobbyists such as myself.
<A pleasure to share; a hope to relate information of worth>
I have a question about the various families of tangs in relation to their suitable home aquarium size. I read through your documentation on wetwebmedia.com and there are only a few noted tank volumes recommended as a minimum for the families;
<Ah, genera>
the Acanthurus, Ctenochaetus, and Zebrasoma all note a guideline size starting at 50 gallons. I was wondering if the data is current,
<Mmm, not really is likely a reasonable response. Having been a content provider in the trade and hobby for... is it really more than forty years?... much of my in-print work is woefully dated... and worse... extant w/o this note>
and if perhaps you had some additional recommendations or adjusted recommendations for tank size for any of the 5 major families on the site?
<Well... for most small species of Acanthurus, all the Bristlemouth and Sailfin species, really a fifty gallon volume that is otherwise not crowded... will suffice... that is, with otherwise good maintenance, nutrition... keep these species alive, healthy for something like a "normal" average maximum life span... However... Some Acanthurus get quite large (saw an absolutely gorgeous group of five A. blochii yesterday diving off Crescent Bay/Manta Ray Cove here on HI's Big Island... I do hope my video of them came out... and I do wish I knew enough re editing, placing such on this/these devices that I could immediately (if not sooner) share this with you... But these were all more than a foot long body length (more with their caudals)... These would need hundreds of gallons... Naso and Prionurus species likewise need hundreds of gallons... systems of at least a couple metres/six foot "run"/length to be happy, grow, survive for any real period of time... Oh, and Paracanthurus... should not be kept in anything smaller than a 75... It should go w/o saying, but am always aware that many less-sophisticated folk may read this... that "bigger is better" for sure... behaviorally and physiologically with these and all other fish groups.>
There are several message boards that I frequent, of which they all have a group of people who state that the minimum tank size for most tangs would be something with a 6' length, and nothing smaller than a 75 or even 90 gallon for Zebrasomas or Ctenochaetus. Is there any data that supports specific sizes for these tangs?
<Mmm, anecdotal experience mostly... There are historical, institutional longevity records for some species... but these are almost always kept in vastly larger systems... But I've kept, personally can account for the most popular species care in the stated volumes by our and other service companies...>
I only ask out of curiosity, personally, I have a 180g tank and have been in the hobby for a couple years, but would much prefer to gather all the data that I can as a reference. Thank you for your time, it is much appreciated. Alex Liffick
<Thank you for your interest, asking. I do ask in turn that when you have confidence, time, that you consider joining our WWM Crew in aiding others. Cheers, Bob Fenner>

Sailfin Nipping at Corals 8/15/06
Dear WWM crew:
<Hi>
I have a Zebrasoma desjardinii that has started picking at my
Devil's Hand Leather, one of my Favorites spp., and a couple of my Xeniids.
<Not unheard of, but not very common either.>
I keep my fish well fed with various foods (Nori, Spirulina enriched brine shrimp, Ocean Nutrition's Formula 2, and live brine shrimp gut loaded with phyto/Selcon/Cyclop-eeze, etc.), so I'm at a loss as to why my prized, mainly-herbivorous, "reef safe" tang would start eating my corals.
<Forget the brine, even gut loaded.  Still not very nutritious, will probably be better off using Mysid.>
I don't want to have to relocate the fish, since I have had him for over a year, and have grown attached, if you know what I mean.
<Sure>
I was hoping you could give me your thoughts/recommendations regarding my situation.
<Well, you’re battling instinct here, so it’s going to be hard to change his behavior.  However this behavior could indicate a nutritional deficiency here, I would try switching up his diet some, forget the brine, switch to Mysid, and maybe try a few different brands of food, New-Life being my personal favorite, and see if it helps minimize this behavior.>
Thanks in advance,
Adam
72 gallon
80 or so lbs. live rock
pH 7.9-8.0 ( I know... :( I'm working on this)
NH3 - zero
NO2 - zero
NO3 - zero to trace
Ca - 450
Alk - 4 meq/L
PO4 - less than .1
Fish - 1 Red Sea Sailfin about 4'', 3 yellow tangs around 2 '', 1 blue throat trigger 2''
Corals/Sessile inverts - 3 Xenia spp., 1 Frogspawn, 1 favorites spp. brain,  many mushrooms and zooanthids, 1 long tentacle plate, 1 devil's hand leather
Other - 1 brittle star, 1 serpent star, 1 sand sifting star, 1 sally lightfoot crab, 10 or so blue leg hermits, 30 or so astrea snails
Lights - 260W Coralife PC's, half 10K, half actinic
Filtration- Sealife Systems model 125 wet dry, Sealife Systems NV150 skimmer
Pumps - Wet dry - Surge M5000 (around 650 g/hour), skimmer- Rio 1700 (around 350 g/hr), and a JBJ 2500 powerhead in the tank w/ a Hydor spinning nozzle on it (about 530 g/hr).
<This tank will quickly become overcrowded with the current livestock you have.  The stress of this environment may also be contributing to this undesired behavior.>
<Chris>

Sailfin Tang In A 55?...No - 03/07/06
I was wondering if I could add a Sailfin to my 55 gallon tank.
<<Nope...not in my opinion.  This fish grows to 18" in the wild (have seen it)...needs a tank of a couple hundred gallons, at least.>>
I already know the other fish in there won't be a problem.  I also know a bigger tank is recommended but I'm being forced to sell my 125 and this is the next biggest thing I have.
<<Then I recommend you take the fish to your LFS, possibly for some store credit.>>
In the tank there is around 100 pounds of rock, a double bio-wheel
filter, a wet dry filter, a protein skimmer, 3 power heads, and  lighting also including the actinic bulbs.  The tank has been running for over a year and is in very good condition so with proper feeding and care could the Sailfin survive?
<<It's not a question of your filtration (not on its own, anyway), but rather the physical limitations of the tank and the psychological impact on the fish.>>
One more question in my other tank that previously had fish in it there are now these little bulbs or bubbles everywhere.  I'm almost 100% sure they aren't normal because they had a strange tint to them could they possibly be eggs?
<<Don't know...but I suspect they are Valonia, a type of bubble algae.  Regards, EricR>>

Tang Growth
I just emailed about moving to a bigger 75 gal. tank. I wasn't sure how fast a Sailfin tang can grow. Does it take 1 or 5 yrs. to grow to an adult?
<Faster than you might think-maybe a couple of years if well fed/maintained>
I am pretty sure that my mandarin will take the move ok...from the 37 gal. to the 75 gal. because I will move the old sand and rocks and add some more sand right away and then some more live rock later. My mandarin is around 1 yr. old and seems to be doing ok. Thanks, Cheryl
<Sailfins are awesome fish- my favorite tang- but they can reach 15" plus! They need a lot of room...You should be prepared to upgrade to at least a 150- or much larger-within 2 years to really accommodate this guy at full adult size! Good Luck! Scott F.>

Marine Stocking
I have a 37 gal. tank with the following fish: cardinal pajama, green mandarin, pacific blue tang, coral beauty, orange spotted goby, Blueline angelfish, fire shrimp, and a cleaner shrimp. I also have live sand and rock. I am moving to a 75 gal. tank and I have always wanted to get a Sailfin tang, Desjardini. How fast do they grow ? I would get a small one. I wondered how long I could keep it if I didn't get other fish? Thanks. Cheryl
<Hi Cheryl, The Tangs do best on lots of space, the two you mention may be alright but the Sailfins tend to be more territorial than the Pacific Blue. It's probably up to the individuals. Do keep in mind this Tang can reach 15" in the wild, and needs room. Of further concern is your Mandarin, that needs a minimum of 75 lbs of well established live rock to thrive. You can get more info on Sailfins at : http://www.wetwebmedia.com/zebrasom.htm and get more information on stocking and compatibility at http://www.wetwebmedia.com/stocking1.htm Hope this gets you started, Craig>

Stocking A New Tank! (Pt.2)
Sorry last question,
<Never a problem!>
In your opinion with a 200 gallon tank is there any chance I might be ok with a purple tang and a yellow tang.  Is one easier to care for than the other. Thanks
<Well, it is possible to keep both together in a large enough tank. Is it advisable? Well, that's a judgment call... Mixing two tangs of the same genus is potentially problematic. The Purple Tang has a more "belligerent" personality, if you will. It can, however, be done. The key is introduction. There are two ways to do this, IMO: Number one, you can introduce two juveniles at the same time, and provide lots of room and rockwork to break up the territories. If one of the fish is larger than the other, it should be the Yellow, IMO. Number two, you can introduce the Yellow Tang first, then introduce the Purple shortly afterwards. Regardless of which approach you take, things can still go wrong! One of the fish can dominate, and possibly kill, the other. Tangs demand a lot of space, and need good food and stable tank conditions in order to live long, happy lives. Please use your best judgment when trying this approach. Good luck! Regards, Scott F.>

SeaScope article on purple tangs.
Robert Fenner
I read your recent article which I must say was well written and informative.
However, you ducked the most obvious issue which is the minimum tank requirements for keeping the purple and other Zebrasoma species.
<Yeeikes. Really? Will have to check, amend>
My first question is why did you do this?
<Mmm, simple (and all too often nowadays) omission or editing removal...>
My second question is what in your opinion is the minimum recommended tank size for keep Zebrasoma species like the purple all things being considered?
<Mmm, have you seen my review piece on the genus posted on WetWebMedia? Here: http://www.wetwebmedia.com/zebrasom.htm
As stated, a fifty gallon size system is the smallest I would try a specimen in. Please see the other articles linked (in blue, above) on the site as well re these fishes. Bob Fenner>

Zebrasoma Tangs Together - Need a Much Bigger Tank (3/9/05)
Hi, 
<Hello there. Steve Allen with you tonight.> 
I have a 4ft long tank and I...
<Please capitalize the proper noun "I" for the benefit of our readers.> 
<Thanks for correcting! Marina>
...was wondering if I could keep a yellow tang and a striped Sailfin tang together? I have lots of rock ( about 100 pounds) and I plan to get about 40 pounds of live rock. I have an Ocean Clear filter with a 600 gph pump and a Magnum 350 filled with glass rings for the biological activity. 
<The rock will provide plenty of bioactivity, so you may want to devote the Magnum to mechanical filtration with less emphasis on biofiltration.> 
Soon, I am going to get a AquaC Remora. 
<Get a Pro.> 
The other fish include: 2 damsels, and a Hippo tang. So could I keep a striped Sailfin tang and a yellow tang together in my tank? 
<To be brutally honest, No. I would not put either of these into such a small tank with a Hippo Tang. They are too likely to hurt it. Also, Yellow Tangs need a minimum of 80 gallons and Sailfins really ought to have more like 180 since they get quite large. Even your Hippo will find this tank small eventually. At least 120 gallons are recommended for them. I would suggest you consider suitable alternatives. Check out Scott Michael's "Marine Fishes" handbook.> 
Thanks 
<You're welcome--hope this helps.> 

Yellow Tang
I need your help with a Yellow Tang. Nitrites 0, Ammonia 0, Nitrate 100,
<Your nitrate levels are awfully high. While it is believed nitrate, in and of itself, is not harmful to fish, it is an indicator of associated dissolved organics, which are harmful. Ideally they should be near zero, but anything under 20 ppm is ok for fish only.>
ph 8.4, all these were after a 20%+ water change. When I first got the Tang, over a year ago, it was bright yellow, healthy, etc. A few months later, he started to lose his coloring, so I started feeding him the sushi seaweed sheets and Selcon.
<A good move, but you may still need a greater variety. I would add to this regimen some Formula Two or similar herbivore frozen food and a vitamin supplement.>
He loved it, tore it up. But he never got his color back but it didn't get any worse. Recently he's not eating the seaweed sheets, but still picking on regular flake food and frozen brine shrimp. He is very, very pale yellow, almost white and his skin just doesn't look right. I recently lost a Blue Damsel. My other Blue Damsel basically all of a sudden started to harass it. I think because it was sick, not sure what it had couldn't tell because the other one really chased it. I don't think it was a parasite, maybe some fungus or bacteria, but it just stopped eating. By the time I got it out it was too late and was tore up. Should I take the Tang out and treat it separately or treat the whole tank.
<Treat the whole tank by raising water quality and changing the diet a little. See notes above. This sounds like a reaction to the environment. If you correct, its color may return. Larger and/or more frequent water changes, aggressive protein skimming, use of activated carbon, etc. to clean the tank.>
I have a couple of peppermint shrimp and hermits but I can put them in a small tank. Other tomato, royal Gramma and blue damsels look fine. Thanks
<Good luck! -Steven Pro>