Specific gravity and altitude. 07/20/09
Hi team,
<Hello Keith,>
whenever I cannot find the answers to something I revert to you guys.
Hope you can help.
I am curious to find out what effect altitude will have on the specific
gravity of a salt water solution.
<There is a very, very slight effect within the range of atmospheric
pressures; reducing air pressure reduces specific gravity if temperature
and salinity stay the same.>
Now I know that pressure and temperature affect the SG so here is the
scenario.
A salt water sample is measured at 1,026 at sea level where the
atmospheric pressure is approximately 14.7psi. The same sample is then
measured at an inland town at an altitude of 1800m and an atmospheric
pressure of 12.27psi. All measurements at a temperature of 20C.
1) What is the difference in SG at the 1800m altitude?
2) How is the difference calculated and what formula is used?
3) Please do an example using the above information.
<It's actually a hugely complex calculation, and not at all easy to do.
When creating my program "Brack Calc" that converts between salinity,
specific gravity, and temperature, I found the mathematics complicated
enough just with those three variables.
http://homepage.mac.com/nmonks/Programs/brackcalc.html
Unless Bob or someone else happens to have a rule of thumb for this, I'd
say either ignore it, or else go find a physical oceanographer who'd
actually be able to work through the mathematics with you. I will make a
comment with regard to the latter, if you do approach a scientist,
remember not to ask them to do your work for you, but to help you do the
work yourself. As a scientist myself, I will tell you this tack always
works better!>
The second part to this subject is what effect does the altitude have on
the accuracy of the measuring equipment. I have done the experiment of
placing a hydrometer in a plastic cool drink bottle partially filled
with sea water and sealed the top. When you squeeze the container the SG
increases and if you apply a vacuum it decreases. So what are the
effects of the following equipment. And how is it calculated?
<Damned if I know. I do marine biology and oceanography at university,
but the air pressure factor is so trivial compared with water depth and
temperature that it is not really of importance, so we didn't learn
about it. There's obviously no sea at the top of Mount Everest, so being
able to figure out the density of seawater at that altitude is not of
any real value.>
1) A refractometer with ATC
2) A professional glass tube hydrometer similar to the tropic marine one
with an accuracy of .0001%
<Normal seawater is 35 grammes per litre; you could start by making a
ten one-litre batches of seawater using a freshly opened box of salt
mix.
Record the density of each at precisely 25 degrees C, which is where
specific gravity is calibrated from. Take the average, and off you go!
Note the importance of using anhydrous sea salt mix to avoid moisture
from the air reducing the amount of actual salt per 35 gramme portion.
Temperature us also critical, and has a far bigger impact on density
than air
pressure.>
3) A conductivity meter.
<Conductivity is how marine biologists and oceanographers measure
salinity, so if you have such a tool, may as well use that. Conductivity
isn't affected by air pressure, so far as I know.>
The third part is what effect does the altitude have on the fish and
corals at this altitude?
<Minimal, given water is largely non-compressible, so the affect of air
pressure on density/specific gravity will be extremely slight.>
Do you have any other links/references on the subject.
Many thanks
Nemo's Janitor.
<Cheers, Neale.>
Broken Glass Hydrometer
6/9/09
Sorry to bother you but my son was helping set up my 72 gallon sw tank
with live rock and broke the hydrometer. I recovered the glass but the
black particles from the bottom of the hydrometer/thermometer is hard to
get out.
Like I said there is nothing but live rock in the tank. What will this
do and do I have to start over?
<Nothing to worry about, no harm done.>
thanks
Valerie Jones
<This happens quite often, nothing to worry about. Do consider an
investment in a refractometer for future tests. They are very accurate
and much easier to use. Scott V.>
Refractometer question
04/25/09
Hey there "Crew", a quick and easy question for you.
I don't use RO/DI water for my tank, I have no easy access to "pure"
water except what comes out of the tap.
<Where do you live? Most drug and grocery stores in the US sell
distilled water.>
What I did to calibrate my refractometer is boil water. The steam
collected on the lid of the pot, then I quickly picked up the lid and
turned it sideways, which caused the steam droplets to intersect, form a
large water drop and drip off onto my refractometer.
<Clever... and this might be good enough. The droplet you got from the
boiled water is not "pure" (b/c of contaminants on the lid itself for
one thing)... but it might likely have a salinity quite close enough to
0.>
I then adjusted my screw so that it read as 1.000 salinity.
<I think/hope you meant "0.000." Distilled/pure water has 0 salinity.>
Does that sound like an accurate way to gauge or do I really need to use
RO/DI water to be accurate?
<Seems good enough, if you set the home "distilled" water to 0.>
Thanks!
Grant
<Best,
Sara M.>
<I'm sorry... I goofed. If you are
calibrating a refractometer that measures in SG, then yes, you were
right, you set the baseline to 1.000...
if in PPM, then it is set to 0.0. Sorry about that...
Cheers,
Sara M>
Refractometer cover plates 11/13/08
Hi Bob,
I met you at
the House of Fins Anniversary Splash Event! Sat. Oct. 18th and have a
mutual friend at HVRK...Linda C.
<Ah, yes>
I've searched just
about every where on the web before Id bother you but your my last
resort.
I'm looking for a replacement cover for my RHSN-10ATC
refractometer.
Can ya help me out there bud??
Sincerely,
Rick
Sharp...The carpenter...remember?? hee, hee , hee
<Sorry for the
tardy reply Rick... have been OUT! I would try the folks at Reef
Solution:
http://www.reefsolution.com/catalog/product_info.php?products_id=1281&language=en
Bob Fenner>
Re: Refractometer cover plates 11/14/08
Thanks Bob but it was a no go. Seems they just don't sell the cover
plates separately.
<Mmm... how about writing the company directly
then?
Http://www.sinoptics.com
It may take some doing... but can
be sent from China... or they may know of a distributor that is more
accommodating>
How are thing with you??
<Fine... just a bit
jet-lagged>
I just bought your book, The conscientious Marine
Aquarist...Whew, that second words a doozy...lol
<Means "with
knowledge" basically... I did "make up" the title... in part in reaction
to the "Dummies", "Idiot" words used in some other series...>
Next
time your out this way I'll have to trade you autographs.
Sincerely...A fan
Rick
<Do make it known what you can find out re
the Refractometer repair Rick.
Cheers, BobF>
Plastic
type hydrometers 9/5/08
Good morning Bob,
<James!
Howsit?>
Just a note to pass on to marine aquarists who are using the
. I purchased a refractometer with automatic temperature compensation,
calibrated it to 35ppt/1.0259 with American Marine calibration solution.
I then checked the SG of my reef tank and was amazed I was only reading
1.019 versus the 1.024 of the Instant Ocean hydrometer.
<Mmmm>
I
double checked the calibration of the refractometer and checked the
water again getting the same reading. I would like to suggest to people
using plastic type hydrometers to find a dealer or friend that has a
refractometer and compare readings and note for future reference.
Although 1.019 isn't a dangerous level, it certainly isn't a good level
for many corals.
Have a nice day.
James (Salty Dog)
<Do agree
that "box" types hydrometers have had troubles with accuracy AND
precision... especially when they are "new"... it pays to "tap" the box,
with water/sample in it... to dislodge bubbles from the "arm". Cheers,
Bob Fenner>
Newbie
question...please help!! Hydrometer reading/calibration for temp.
8/11/08
Hello
<Philippe>
I hope all is well with you.
<Yes. Thank you>
Newbie
question...because I am soooo confused.
I am setting up a 75 gal reef
tank. I want to get off to a good start...and I find myself confused.
This morning, using an Instant Ocean hydrometer, I had specific gravity
readings of 1.0245 at 75.8 F.
How does that sound?
<Okay....>
Is the Instant Ocean hydrometer giving a temperature corrected reading?
<Mmm, no... is given a temp. calibrated reading...>
Or, is it
necessary to use a conversion of .0021 to have a temperature corrected
reading of 1.0266 (based on John Tullock's book _Natural Reef Aquariums_
pg. 121) thus a salinity reading of 36?
<Yes>
Wouldn't that be a
bit high?
<Not too high... is "right about right">
Anyway, lights
will be added tomorrow. I am taking each step slowly and want to get the
salinity correct. Thanks for your time. _The Conscientious Marine
Aquarist_ has been an excellent source...great book!!
-Phil in
Mississippi
<Ahh, thank you for your kind words. Bob Fenner,
presently out in Kona, HI>
Kalkwasser and Specific Gravity – 02/04/08
Hi, WWM Crew.
<<Hiya Al>>
Great site and thanks for all the past help.
<<Glad
we could be of assistance>>
I have a question regarding salinity,
specific gravity and Kalkwasser.
<<Okay>>
I dose Kalkwasser
through my auto top-off in to a 180g reef tank with a 50g sump. My
evaporation rates are fairly large and I was wondering what effect
Kalkwasser had on my specific gravity reading.
<<Nothing of
significance>>
Specifically (no pun intended), could an abundance of
added Kalkwasser contribute to an increased level of specific gravity?
<<Not as I am aware. I have heard before some hobbyists reported “small”
increases in Salinity with the use of Kalkwasser…but I haven’t seen any
scientific claims re, nor have I experienced this with my own tank (that
I could tell, anyway). I think some of these “reports” may well stem
from the use of commercial “two-part” Calcium and Alkalinity supplements
as these do impart both Sodium and Chloride ions to the system which
would contribute to an increase in Salinity over time. But all in all,
even with such additions, the increase in Salinity should be very
gradual and easily managed through normal good maintenance/husbandry
practices>>
Thanks again!
Al
Lake Tahoe, NV
<<A pleasure to
share. EricR…Columbia, SC>><Specific gravity increases with any
solubilized solid material... RMF>
Re: Unintentionally Kill New Finger Leather?, & Spg measure...
12/25/07
Thanks a bunch Bob!
<Daryl>
I thought you would
like to hear some good news...
<Always>
The "finger leather" is
still alive... and is beginning to extend its polyps! (see Finger
Leather.JPG). Also, the "kenya tree coral" (?) has shed all its mucous
and looks just great! (see Kenya Tree Coral.JPG).
I've already
noticed a reduction in algae after switching to RO/DI, adding a
Turboflotor skimmer, and adding a Yellow Tang! Everyone seems to be
doing great! My coralline algae is starting to peal and turn pale in
spots... I suspect replacing the light bulbs and the glass covering over
the tank has something to do with it.
<Likely so>
Also, just a
quick question regarding specific gravity/salinity. I have a plastic,
swing-arm type hydrometer (Deep Six Hydrometer). It is stated that it
gives temperature-corrected readings in warm water aquariums. The
hydrometer shows a bracket (which I assume they are marking 'normal
readings') between 1.020 (~27 ppt) and 1.023 (~31 ppt). I am under the
assumption that I should have a specific gravity of 1.024 (~33 ppt)???
I've also read that natural seawater is around 35 ppt (~1.026). I think
I'm making this a bit too confusing... basically, what should I be
reading on my Deep Six Hydrometer?
<About 1.026>
Also, my pH is
around 8.2 (two hours before lights out). I would like Is there a way to
increase the pH without affecting the alkalinity?
<Posted... Read
here: http://wetwebmedia.com/marine/maintenance/index.htm
scroll
down...>
Water Specs:
Salinity 33 ppt
Temp 78
pH 8.2
Nitrate 0
Ca 430
Alkalinity 3.5 mEq/L
Mg 1500
Thanks for all
that you have done. I hope you had a very Merry Christmas!
Also, when
is your 'reef book' coming out?
Daryl
<I wish someday soon... no
scheduled production time... but I do keep bugging JamesL, my US
publisher re... Cheers, Bob Fenner>
Refractometer 07/27/07
Hi Crew
I have a quick question if I
could bug you guys again. I bought a refractometer after reading some of
your posts about hyposalinity. Just in case I need to use it for ich in
the future. My refractometer is off quite a bit compared to the swing
arm hydrometers I have. I have 2 deep six by CoraLife hydrometers and a
SeaTest hydrometer. All 3 tell me my SG is 1.020 and my new fancy dancey
refractometer is telling me my SG is 1.024. Big difference. I calibrated
it as per directed. I checked seawater from the Gulf Of Mexico off the
west side of Florida and the refractometer tells me the gulf is 1.030
SG. Is that normal SG for the ocean or would you say my refractometer is
off? I checked the gulf water with my 3 swing arm hydrometers and they
are almost at 1.024 just a tad under. The funny thing is I bought this
much more expensive refractometer to be more precise and I think my
swing arm are more accurate. Anyway to calibrate it I was wondering if
you knew what the Gulf Of Mexico SG is?
<Probably somewhere around
1.027. However, you should probably account for a possible/likely rise
in salinity due to evaporation during the trip from the gulf to wherever
you are.>
I did a google search and couldn't find anything? Also for
what its worth the refractometer I bought is temperature self adjusting.
Thanks In Advance.
<I would trust your refractometer over your
hydrometers (especially if you recently calibrated your refractometer.
In fact, hydrometers are usually calibrated against refractometers.
Best,
Sara M.>
Re: Refractometer 10/28/07
Thanks so much for your fast response!
There was no evaporation because I checked it right at the gulf shore.
1.030 every time.
<Oh, huh...>
What I was going to do is use gulf
water and then calibrate at 1.027. I thought 1.030 was way to high.
Maybe its a cheap one I bought?
<Well, how cheap was it? Did you pay
in quarters and have to turn a knob until it came out the bottom of a
machine? :-) j/k The "cheap" ones usually work fine. I think it just
needs to be calibrated. But I wouldn't use water from the gulf since we
don't know exactly what that salinity is (my guess is it could be
anywhere from 34 to 36 ppm). Instead, make your own standard solutions
and calibrate it to those. See here:
http://www.reefkeeping.com/issues/2004-06/rhf/index.php>
Looks nice
but isn't 1.030 way to high? Thanks you guys and girls are great!
<De
nada and good luck,
Sara M.>
<I'm so sorry, in that last response I meant to type "34 to 36 ppt" NOT
ppm. -Sara>
Specific Gravity Question 10/11/07
Hi Neale! I've been
studying up on my next adventure - a marine tank (30-55 gallon) - namely
with clownfish. I realize specific gravity measurement is important
however in all the research I've done, I can't seem to locate HOW to
measure specific gravity. There isn't a test kit for this is there?
Relates to salinity doesn't it?
<Hello Lisa. You need to use either
an hydrometer or a refractometer. Or if you have the $$$, an electronic
salinity meter. There's plenty about them here:
http://www.wetwebmedia.com/spg_salinity.htm . I'd also add that a marine
aquarium should be a mandatory purchase before going into marine
fishkeeping. While you can sort of "pick things up as you go along" with
freshwater fish, for marine fishkeeping you do need to hit the floor
running. Bob Fenner's book 'Conscientious Marine Aquarist' is superb,
and I'd say that even if the guy was a schmuck. As it is, Bob's a nice
guy too. On the front page of the web site there's a deal right now for
two of his books for a measly $30. Definitely worth considering, and
given the price of even a single marine fish or coral, learning from
someone like Bob will save you hundreds of dollars in the long run (not
to mention the lives of those gorgeous sea creatures) --
http://www.wetwebmedia.com/daily_faqs3.htm? . Otherwise, browse, read
the many articles on marine fishkeeping here at WWM.>
On another note
- is it possible for 2 year old livestock to grow when brought into a
more spacious environment? (i.e. Mbuna, Plecos)
<Yes and no. All fish
grow constantly. This is actually standard for "lower" vertebrates. It's
called non-determinate growth. It contrasts with birds and mammals,
which grow to a certain size, and then stop. Anyway, what changes with
fish is the rate of growth. This is normally fastest during the early
stages of growth. In the case of a typical tropical fish, this will the
first few months. Growth rate then slows down, to the point where after
a few years growth is imperceptibly slow. The bottom line is that if a
fish has been "stunted" in its first year or two, it is unlikely to ever
reach the maximum size for that species, even if moved into ideal
conditions. It's passed through the rapid growth phase, and all that's
left is slow growth. In other words, yes, your Mbuna or Pleco will grow
bigger in a new tank, but don't expect them to get *as big* as ones that
had been in a bigger tank right from the start.>
Thank you and I look
forward to hearing from you!
Lisa
<Hope this helps, Neale>
Re: SG Problems... measure, refractometers 7/21/07
All I can say Bob is wow! Since sending you this e-mail I have been on a
roller coaster ride of specific gravity instruments and their
calibrations.
I feel like I have learned a lot and thought I should
report back to let you know what I came across (since this gets posted
and all)
<Do appreciate this>
Okay, so in the beginning I put some
straight RO on my refractometer and it registered as about a half an
inch below where the scale even started.
That's .5" below the 0 line
on the instrument. This is what lead me to freak out and write you
because once I dialed it up to 0 my salinity read 1.029 which had me
near panic as at that time I thought it had likely been that high for
months. Since then I began digging on the forums and found that with the
decline in price on refractometers, the quality of the instruments has
also been in decline. Basically the cheap ones (which I have) become
unreliable the further the reading gets from the calibration point so it
is much better to calibrate with a solution at 1.026 than it is to
calibrate it with fresh RO at 0. Thanks to Randy Farley on Reef Central
I found a homebrew calibration solution that was extremely simple to
make, once I recalibrated my instrument using this solution, it turns
out that my 1.029 water is actually at 1.022!!! and likely has been for
all these months because of a bad refractometer calibration with
straight RO. This 1.022 reading has since been triple checked against
another refractometer, a conductivity meter, and a swing arm.
Basically I wanted to write you back so that when this is posted,
hopefully some people catch it and realize that they need to rethink how
they are calibrating these instruments and not blindly trusting them
like I did. I am now using my fresh saltwater for my auto top off to
slowly bring the salinity up to 1.026 and feel as though I have been on
a roller coaster ride thru a salinity nightmare. Anyhow, cheers to you
guys and I really hope this helps at least one other person. Now that I
have this behind me I am off to have a margarita.... hold the salt.
<Heeee! Thanks Bush. BobF>
Bush Williams
PS, here are the links I
was talking about:
Calibration discussion:
http://www.reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=953605
Homemade Calibration Solutions:
http://www.reefkeeping.com/issues/2004-06/rhf/index.php
Hydrometer Inaccuracies 4/20/07
What is the best way to measure
salinity? <A refractometer.> I bought a normal plastic Instant Ocean
pendulum hydrometer but when I test my SG it will measure about
.002-.003 difference when I take a water sample to my LFS. <These are
pretty unreliable.> They use the exact same hydrometer I use. Do I need
to calibrate it and if so how do I do it? <They can't be
calibrated. Best to make sure that the water temperature is close as
possible to what the hydrometer wants and there are no bubbles on the
swing arm. My advice is to invest in a decent refractometer, much more
accurate and easy to use.>
<Chris>
Refractometers
hi guys:)
<Hello...Jorie here>
Quick question,
I have 3
hydrometers and get a different reading off each and am fed up. I want a
refractometer and don't mind paying the extra buck for quality. I was
wondering if you would feel comfortable with a refractometer from 1 one
of the fallowing manufactures. Ocean Tech, Vital Sine, Captive Purity.
Which would you pick? Do you have a better choice perhaps?
ocean
tech, vital sine http://www.drsfostersmith.com
captive purity: http://marinedepot.com
<I purchased the following refractometer about a year or so ago and
absolutely love it. Knock on wood, have had no problems whatsoever and
would without hesitation recommend it to anyone in the aquarium
hobby. No need to pay the "big bucks" for all the bells and whistles
unless you are a chemist, in my humble opinion!
http://www.reefaquariumguide.com/sponsors/specials.php
many
thanks
<You are most welcome. Take care, Jorie>
Pinpoint
Salinity Monitor Problems 2/18/06
Hi gang, I've run a Pinpoint
ph monitor on my reef system for several years. . . overall I'm pleased
with it, although it has to be run with a 9 volt battery. . . two
attempts at using the optional adapters provided by the manufacturer
went astray -- I had a techno-geek friend test the second one after it
shorted out my unit for a while. . . turns out the adapter was supplying
11.8 volts. . . way too high, and almost destroyed the monitor. The
salesperson at my usual internet supply source confirmed the adapter
unit is cheap/unreliable.
<Indeed, the power supply problem is well
known among Pinpoint users, and you would think they would supply a
better quality unit, but alas... pinpoint monitors are made to be
inexpensive hobbyist models. Top of the line models cost much more.>
On to my real point. . . a month ago, I ordered a Pinpoint salinity
monitor. After calibrating the unit, I added it to my reef tank.
Readings were WAY high and fluctuated wildly. I called the supplier. . .
who was immediately aware of the 'problem'. Turns out the unit won't
function properly in proximity to electrical current. . . e.g. my power
compact reef lights. Since the only places available for mounting on my
system are a crowded sump with several hundred watts of pumps being
powered up (returns and downdraft skimmer pumps) and the top of my reef
tank, there's nowhere I can run the relatively short (less than three
foot) probe-and-cord to use the unit. I feel like I've effectively
purchased a hundred-dollar-plus paperweight. As the last straw, the unit
ate up a 9 volt alkaline battery in just a week's worth of use. The
thing is, there's no disclaimer describing this problem on the website
where I bought the thing. And the supply source wasn't willing to allow
me to send back the unit to upgrade for another Pinpoint product. So
'caveat emptor' on this one. . . Chuck
<It is a shame that this
problem exists, and pinpoint should probably at least state in the
instructions that the unit must be away from such interference, but
again, these are entry level inexpensive products. Your comments are
appreciated and will be posted amount the FAQ's. Best Regards. AdamC.>
Refractometer Accuracy 1/20/06
Hi WWM, from snowy Nevada!!
Hope there is better weather where you are!
<Ah yes. A beautiful day
in Georgia.>
I have a refractometer that is approx. five years old.
I recently had reason to question the accuracy of the meter, when
someone else was testing the same sample water with another
refractometer and received a completely different result than my
refractometer. Both refractometers had been calibrated. I purchased
another refractometer as did someone else I know. We took all 3
refractometer's and calibrated them at the same time with the same
water. Then took some sample aquarium water and tested it with all
three. My five year old refractometer tested the water at 1.025, my new
refractometer tested it at 1.025, and the third refractometer tested it
at 1.022. Is this a significant difference between meters that should
be of concern?
<Not really.>
It seems the results should have
been more similar, given that all three were calibrated in the same way,
at the same time, with the same water.
<Actually, most are only
accurate within the certain temp. planned for their use. Probably what
is the case here.>
Another notable tid-bit, both of my
refractometers have the same model number RHS-10ATC, and the third has a
model number of ZGRS-10ATC. Could this just be the difference in models?
<Yep. Probably meant for best results in certain temps.>
None of the
meters list any kind of accuracy reference. Which should we consider
more accurate?
<Try to find out the intended temp. for each. As long
as you get consistent results from the one you are using, you should be
fine.>
I am very curious to hear your thoughts.
<Oh, and I do
have some curious ones!>
Thank you very much and have a great night
(hopefully in some tropical location)!! Jen Marshall
<Hmm...Tropical? Well, there are some "strange birds" around here! -
Josh>
Hydrometer Readings 3/16/06
Hello there,
<Hi Czarina - Tim answering your question today!>
We have just set
up a new 40 gallon aquarium. It currently contains nothing more than
saltwater and live sand (with sump, bioballs, heater set to 77, pump
etc). However, EVERY time we test the water with a hydrometer we get a
completely different reading. Sometimes the needle hits the very top of
the meter, then 3 seconds later the bottom, then somewhere in the middle
(not necessarily in any particular order). We went and bought a second
hydrometer to double check, and exactly the same thing is happening. We
are taking these readings without leaving any time between them- so
there is no room for any fluctuation. We have not added salt for a few
days either. The guy in our LFS said there is no way this could happen.
Also, it seems that when we put it under and hold it there, we get a
higher reading it seems- than if we fill it and lift it out quickly. <It
could be that you have bubbles stuck to the needle when you first fill
it, causing it to jump high, then fall once the bubbles come off.
Alternatively the needle could be getting slightly wedged at the bottom.
In any case, fill the hydrometer to the recommended level - and ensure
that your water is at the appropriate temperature for measurement
(should be ca. 25C for most hydrometers but check the instructions
supplied by the manufacturer). Then, depending on the model and whether
or not possible, place the hydrometer on a level surface - e.g. a table
top or similar. Tap the outside of the hydrometer (if it is plastic -
not glass) with the tip of a pencil or pen a couple of times to dispel
any bubbles in the hydrometer. Then allow the needle to stabilize and
you should have an accurate measurement. I think the answer really is
down to physics here!>
I am completely and utterly confused as to
why this is happening. This crazy
fluctuations can't be possible
<Exactly - they can't unless something on the needle is causing this
such as an air bubble.>. Please advise us!
Thank you for your time,
<Always a pleasure!>
Czarina.
Refractometer vs. Hydrometer question 11/27/06
Dear Crew,
<Dear Eric, Mich here, hello to you on the first day of
deer season.>
I have been using a Red Sea Hydrometer for as long as
I've been in the hobby which is about a year now. I decided to upgrade
to a $60 Hand Held Refractometer w/ATC on sale for $30. <Good
investment.> I calibrated it this morning by setting the room
temperature to approx. 68 degrees F. and a couple of drops of distilled
water as directed. I then proceeded to test some buckets of pre-made
salt water. To my astonishment every bucket was 1.028 SG. I went to my
main tank and it was 1.0275, which is probably due to it being 78
degrees. My quarantine tank was the same. My hydrometer has always read
1.0235 consistently. I would do this 3 - 4 times in a row to ensure the
result was consistent if not accurate. <As you know consistency and
accuracy are two different measurements, both equally important.> I
thought it might be off by .001 but not .0035 - .004. <Hydrometers are
notoriously inaccurate.>
Thankfully all the corals in the tank are
doing fine. <Good.> I only have two fish: a blue/green chromis and a
Hippo tang who thinks he's a chromis. The tang has some scarred looking
flesh which has been there since a week after I got him. Could this be
from too high SG? <Could be may things.> (it's a grayish color in
patches and his tail has looked frayed forever. The cleaner shrimp
enjoys picking at him when the fish lets him.) <Good.> Is it possible
that the Refractometer is also off? <Doubtful.> Should I trust the
refractometer <Yes.> and slowly drop back to about 1.025 or 1.024 over
the next few weeks during water changes<Yes.>? I think I'll bring a
sample of water to the LFS to double check before I do much of anything,
<Good...if they use a refractometer.> but I would like to hear what you
have to say. <I would trust the refractometer, not the hydrometer.> Is
it normal for Hydrometers to read low? I've heard they can read high,
but not low. <Hydrometers can be inaccurate in any direction.>
Thanks for your time - Eric <Welcome.>
Measuring Salt
Content – 10/25/06
Hi Eric,
<<Hey Ken>>
I finished the
tank, filled it up, turned it on, and no leaks.
<<Yea!>>
What a
relief.
<<Indeed>>
I want to test the SG in the tank. I have a
Blue Line ( I think) model RHS-10ATC refractometer. I get a reading of
1.025 on this. I also tried a Coralife "Deep Six" hydrometer and get
between 1.021 and 1.022. Does this seem normal to have this kind of
range?
<<Sure...the plastic box-type hydrometers aren’t consider
very accurate, but they are generally close/consistent enough for hobby
use and are convenient for “quick” checks, especially if you have
something like a properly calibrated refractometer to use for
reference. Personally, I prefer to use an electronic meter for
measuring salinity but what you have should be fine>>
Thanks,
Ken
<<Always welcome. EricR>>
Meniscus...Is It Up Or
Down? – 10/12/06
Dear Crew,
<<Hello Eric>>
Thanks for
all the help you have given me in the past.
<<Quite welcome>>
I
currently use a floating hydrometer/thermometer to measure the specific
gravity in my tank and replacement water.
<<Mmm, not very
accurate...unless you have spent money for one of the better “lab grade”
hydrometers (they generally don’t contain “thermometers”) as offered by
Salifert, and pay attention to/have a conversion to allow for water
temperature>>
When using such an instrument, I have noticed that
there is a reverse meniscus (shaped like a ' n ' instead of a ' u ‘)
around it. Do I read the specific gravity by checking the level of the
water surface or where the reverse meniscus reaches? I know usually a
meniscus is read from its base but I have never dealt with a reverse
meniscus, if that's what it is called.
<<Hmm, describing the
meniscus as either an ‘n’ or a ‘u’ is a matter of interpretation I
think. Regardless, read the hydrometer where the surface of the water
just outside the meniscus would strike it>>
Thanks,
Eric
<<Regards, EricR>>
And then there were none... substantial
obeisance, hydrometer accuracy, troubleshooting SW illness... -
09/14/06
Hi,
You guys were a tremendous help to me last
time, I went to Amazon and ordered anything with the name Fenner on it.
(great books)
A little background on the tank.
I have a 50
gallon saltwater tank, 2 years old. pH normal, Nitrates normal, Nitrites
normal, SG 1.022, temp.77-79, Nh3 negative. 30 Lbs live rock, and a 1.5
inch bed of live sand (infested with what I think are bristle worms,
little orange things that are grey at the end). The lights run 10 hours
a day, and I have a very healthy growth of bubble algae and the like. (
the tang loved it )
In the last three weeks I have lost,,,, A
yellow tang, 2 clowns, 5 assorted damsels, a mandarin (sob!)
<Yikes>
and a citron goby. I have introduced an anemone, and a feather about
two weeks ago, but they seem fine.
<... likely the Anemone is
involved, related to your fish losses here>
My crabs and snails are
all fine, but I tried to put in cleaner shrimp to help stem the
massacre, and they died about 20 minutes after being put into the tank.
(do I need to recalibrate my hydrometer?)
<Doubtful... but I would
"check" it against a known-to-be more accurate device... and raise your
spg to 1.025>
The fish were coated with a grayish mucus especially
noticeable on the eyes, I have cultured the water
<Neat!>
and
found Gram negative bacteria such as, Proteus, and Pseudomonas.
<Very common "similar" microbial involvement in all marine waters>
The fungal culture will take a bit longer to grow.
I rarely do water
changes, but the tank evaporates about 2-3 gallons a week that I refill
with RO water. I have a canister filter that the LFS guy says not to
touch "if your water is so clear, and the parameters are so good, don't
even clean it, you will kill the bacteria that live there", so I added
another smaller canister filter.
<Mmm... am not a big fan of this
technology for the vast majority of marine systems. See WWM re>
I
don't know what to do, this has happened at the end of last summer as
well, and I simply left the tank empty for 6 weeks to crash any
parasites that were there, and then added fish and they were fine, but
this time I don't think it was parasites.
HELP PLEASE!!
many
thanks,
josh
<Well... Please read here:
http://www.wetwebmedia.com/anemcompfaqs.htm
and here:
http://www.wetwebmedia.com/marine/setup/filtration/marineFiltr.htm
and the linked files above....
And consider adding a protein skimmer
if you don't have one, better filtration period, trading in the
Anemone... Bob Fenner>
Hydrometers
Hi Bob-
Which
hydrometer would you recommend. Aquarium Systems Sea Test or
Coralife Deep Six.
Also should I hard plumb my w/d with the hang on
overflow or use the flex hoses?
Thanks
Tom
>>
Six of one,
half a dozen... they're about the same... more important in terms of
accuracy and care of these measurers of specific gravity is learning how
to use them... tapping their boxes to rid air bubbles, rinsing them, and
storing them carefully (a zillion dollars worth will be broken today!)
especially. These plastic "box type" hydrometers are better than glass
types though... and accurate enough for commercial and hobby uses.
Bob Fenner
Hi Bob,
I have one other question for you.
Is
their a formula to convert temp, salinity, to specific gravity?
pH ORP Temp Cond. Sal.
8.13 323 80.2 58700 38.49
8.19 317 79.7
59500 39.06
8.11 320 80.1 60100 39.49
8.14 319 81.4 60100 39.48
8.27 319 80.9 59800 39.27
8.12 316 81.4 60800 39.98
8.05 316 79.8
60200 39.56
8.03 315 79.8 60200 39.56
8.01 316 80.3 60800 39.99
nitrate 0, nitrite0, Amm very little, all most not detected
Alk 5 meg
Cal 425
phos .1
dKH 10
Thanks again,
Larry
>>
Hmm, I'd
rather offer a table rather than a formula here... And a warning to not
get overly excited about this aspect of water quality... best to "return
your water to center, or thereabouts" via water changes on a regular
basis, as more than salinity is at play in figuring to or from relative
density (specific gravity) or seawater.
Assuming a constant salinity
of 34ppt, varying temperature, the spg should read:
Temp.F Temp C
Spec. Gravity
86 30 1.021
84 29 1.021
82 28 1.022
81 27
1.022
79 26 1.022
77 25 1.023
75 24 1.023
73 23 1.023
72
22 1.023
70 21 1.024
Bob Fenner
My fish are sick
Thank you for answering my questions. I guess in my efforts to give you
all the information you needed, I overlooked one of the most important
things.
I do have some test kits I use. The ph level is and has been
8.0 the entire time I have had the aquarium. My nitrites are and have
been 0. There aren't traces of ammonia. The only thing that has changed
during the time I have had everything are the nitrates. They started at
0 and after about 2 months increased to 20, after about 3 weeks
increased to 40, and have stayed at 40 for the last few weeks.
How do
I lower my specific gravity? How do I measure it?
<With a tool called
a hydrometer... and it can be lowered by removing some of the seawater
and replacing it with just fresh... Maybe take a look at the article on
specific gravity and salinity posted at www.wetwebmedia.com>
I did do
a partial water change a week before everything started and I haven't
been able to find a new filter for my Fluval system (small town pet shop
hazard, I will end up having to order it from the internet), so I just
rinsed the sponge filter out. We have well water and haven't had any
problems with it, but could that have caused everything to go out of
kilter?
<Yes, possibly... you might consider having your water
checked for you and your aquarium use... and do what I do... get a small
Reverse Osmosis unit for drinking, cooking and pet-fish use>
I did
turn up the aeration system after I added the triple sulfa since it
seemed to create a film on top of the water, and have left it up since
then.
Jazz did die sometime last night, as I had feared he would. He
was my favorite. Thanks for the link to WetWebMedia, there is a wealth
of information I will take time to read through. Also, if there is a
good "Salt Water Aquariums & Fish for Dummy's" or maybe a "Guide for
Panicky Pet Owners" book you recommend, I would like to have some
references on hand with color pictures if possible.
Again thank you
for your time and advice.
Sincerely, Millie Opela
>>
Do take a
look at some kanucklehead's version of the way marine aquariums are
supposed to be titled "The Conscientious Marine Aquarist"... a good
read, and full of nice pix.
Bob "immodest tonight" Fenner
Re: Chocolate Chip Starfish ...
I removed him last night when I
saw absolutely no more activity from his little feet. Someone suggested
it might have been a change in salinity, but salinity has been fairly
constant between 1.022 and 1.023... I'm using an Aquarium Systems
SeaTest Plastic Hydrometer for warm water aquariums. Can you recommend
something better? or is this okay? water temp around 78F >>
>>
This is a fine (accurate, precise) brand, type of hydrometer. It is what
I have used for many years.
Bob Fenner
Water Density
Measurements...
First off I just want to say what a great book
Conscientious Marine Aquarist is. It has been invaluable to me and its
the first book I recommend to anyone who's asked me about getting into
this hobby. I have a question about reading my hydrometer. I feel kind
of silly, but none of the tables I've seen for temperature adjustments
have made sense to me. I have a hydrometer which is calibrated at 78F.
For my water at 82F, it gives a reading of 1.024. What is the true
specific gravity/salinity of my water? And more importantly, how do I
adjust the reading for those 4 degrees? Thanks a lot.
>>
Hmm, the
"true" specific gravity? In all likelihood it is very near the 1.024
value that your hydrometer is calibrated to... and I wouldn't obsess
about the absolute spg at any length... there are a couple of variables,
artifacts if you will, that influence hydrometers readings on the basis
of temperature... (compression and gas solubility issues...) but these
are far less important (as is real near-seawater density questions) as
doing your best to keep spg about constant... by pre-mixing your
synthetic water, topping off occasionally with fresh...
Bob Fenner,
who thanks you.
Trusting Hydrometer
Hello-
First off
thanks for your devotion to this hobby.
<To hobbyists and the
planet>
I recently moved and had to make the change from well water
to city water. Upon setting up the tank (75 g.
with sump, skimmer
etc.) I had major problems. Lost all shrimp, inverts etc. the first two
days. All that
is left is a green Chromis and a Sailfin tang. At
first I thought the problem was lack of dissolved
oxygen from
disturbing the DSB, (and maybe part of it was) but after reading your
articles and FAQ's I was
concerned about my salinity, it seemed as
though I was adding more salt to my water than I normally did to
get
my "bobber" hydrometer to read 1.023. I went out and bought a new
Hydrometer swing arm). To my horror
it registered off the chart,
above 1.030.
<Yikes>
I felt/feel horrible. I exchanged a few
gallons of water for fresh water, but I don't know what the s.g is at or
how much to change it a day, I know you say not more than .001/24 hr,
but this is hard if I am off the scale.
<Still, better to do
gradually at this point...>
I am having trouble believing my
instruments, this is a bad feeling. Should I invest in "refractometric
means" of measuring salinity. Sorry this is so long, please advise.
<The refractometer is a nice tool to have/use, and valuable for
research, having lots invested... but a decent "regular" calibrated
hydrometer (and/or one to check it against that you can trust) should
yield sufficiently accurate and precise measures. Sorry to read of your
losses. Bob Fenner>
Thanks,
John Gray
Refractometer
I have a Refractometer and a Hydrometer (deep six) which do you consider
a better choice?
<Mmm, better choice?... Well, the refractometer is
decidedly a "better choice" for accuracy and precision of measure of
actual salinity... And the hydrometer is the "better choice" for ease of
use (though not as accurate or precise) in measuring density/specific
gravity. I would likely use the latter for most daily, occasional use.>
I used 5% NaCl solution to calibrate the refractometer and my salinity
of my tank, which read 1.023 with the Hydrometer, read 1.017. I cannot
convince myself which is better.
<Mmmm, you may be becoming "too
involved" here (like myself, we would likely lose on Jeopardy (tm) due
to too much considering, thinking about the "real" answers... when a
simple, general sense of what is involved is all that is necessary).
Please read here: http://www.wetwebmedia.com/spg_salinity.htm
and the
FAQs beyond.
Be chatting, Bob Fenner>
Alex
Hydrometer
(addition of salt to koi pond)
I need your help in testing how
much salt I need to add to my pond. I have done a partial water change
and I need to know how much salt I can add.
I bought a "SeaTest
Hydrometer" and I need to know if is possible to test *my Koi pond water
with this. If so, what should the reading be on the meter for a pond
with plants. Thanks for your help.
<Mmm, not really useful/practical
to use a hydrometer for salt additions to ponds... the small amounts of
salts in such applications are not easily, precisely, accurately
measured by such a tool. The long and short of what I sense you want to
know is "just how much" salt to add... as in per the volume of your
system, end results of the addition. I would guesstimate how big
(gallons... as in about 7.5 gallons per cubic foot... or by filling with
a watch... and figuring how many gallons per minute in filling a "pickle
bucket" of determinate volume), and add (incrementally, over a period of
days), about a pound per one hundred gallons.
Much more to
say/state... if you were interested in "how much" real salt you have
already, and to augment you might look into a conductivity meter (rather
than density measure with a hydrometer) or other "marine aquarium" salts
measuring gear... Do take care in how much, how soon you add salt to
your system... as the rapid die off of algae, sometimes beneficial
nitrifiers, increased osmotic pressure... can be too stressful to your
livestock (fishes, invertebrates and plants)...
And more to the
point (at least mine) is "what do you hope to accomplish" by salt
addition?
If any of this is incomplete, not clear to you, let's keep
discussing ahead of application. Bob Fenner>
Hydrometer
accuracy?
Okay. I have heard that the floating hydrometer that I
have (Marine Enterprises about 13" long, calibrated at 75 degrees),
although supposedly a very good one, may not be accurate. I also wanted
to be able to test from my tank a little easier. So, I went out and got
a SeaTest Hydrometer by Aquarium Systems. It immediately jumped to
1.0295!!!! My floater always reads 1.024-1.025. And, yes, I did knock
the bubbles off of the SeaTest float prior to reading the results.
Which one is correct?
<Very likely the floating unit is closer to
what is real>
What should I rely on?
<Please read here:
http://www.wetwebmedia.com/spg_salinity.htm>
My calcium test is not
working as advertised and I am wondering if the salinity might be a
problem. Carbonate hardness looks okay at 110.
Linda Swenberg
<Good lessons to be learned here re accuracy, precision, the "nature" of
tests, testing. Bob Fenner>
Plastic Hydrometers
Hi
there,
Currently, I'm having two brands of hydrometer. One is from
aquarium systems and the other one is from marine enterprise inc.
They're both giving me different set of readings. Which one should I
trust ? What would be the effects be (inhabitants consist of fishes and
corals) if the SG level is high (let's say it's above 1.026). Thanks.
<Plastic hydrometers are known for this. I would use the one that reads
zero with RO water. Some people average between the two.
As long as
the new water matches the old water and the SG is between 1.023 and
1.028 (a bit high) you're alright. Craig>
Plastic vs. glass
hydrometer
Anthony, Again, I can't tell thank you enough for you
advice.
<truly a pleasure>
I thought I'd share with you some
news today. You mentioned in my original question that there must be a
simple answer...I think you're correct. On a whim, I took a sample of
tank water to work with me (I'm a veterinarian), and checked the
salinity. My refractometer read 1.017!! I couldn't believe it. My
hydrometer at home is telling me 1.024.
<heehee... piece of crap
plastic hydrometers... I don't know why they even make them. Don't get
me wrong... the cheap glass hydrometers can be equally inaccurate... but
they don't stray. They are consistent and can be trusted after a single
comparison to a reference point like a refractometer for those that
cannot afford one. Plastic hydrometers can be corrupted in so many ways-
junk.>
I was so dumbstruck, I checked it twice more on separate
refractometer. One read 1.016 one read 1.017.
>Please tell me this
is the likely cause of my problems.
<hard to say... but very
stressful indeed. And the difference in success between species was the
difference in tolerances perhaps>
If this is it...I'm not sure
whether to laugh or cry. I have closed off my top off, and assume that
it is best to allow natural evaporation to gradually return the salinity
back to normal.
<its not that scary low that you need to add salt.
I'll agree>
Jeff
<best regards, Anthony>
Refractometer
2/28/03
I recently purchased a refractometer designed for
salinity measurement. After calibration, I noticed that it was way off
from what I thought I had in my tank. Using a plastic SG meter, I
measured 1.024; with the refractometer, it was 1.029. I keep the
plastic device clean and free of build-up, particularly on the
pointer.
<very good... and for all of the daily FAQ readers: it is
a necessary habit to give your plastic/glass hydrometer a rinse with
distilled or deionized water after every use to prevent mineral
build-ups that will skew readings in time>
With another, brand new
plastic meter (from another company), I also get 1.024. I read up on
refractometry, especially regarding its use in determining the SG of
urine.
<I hope there isn't a seawater v. urine analogy coming <G>>
In that context, I read that the accuracy can be affected by protein.
<dammit... ;) >
Reasoning that even with a good skimmer there is
dissolved protein in the tank water, I thought that this might account
for the discrepancy.
<ahhh...no>
After all, a display tank will
have more dissolved in it than just sodium chloride.
<the amount of
proteins/incidentals in urine is... ahhh... very different from
habitable seawater. (Although I have seen some aquariums in my travels
that were so neglected that it looked like the fish were swimming in
piss). Refractometers are used everyday in seawater by science and
aquarists alike in the tens of thousands of unit numbers. The problem
with your refractometer is either simply that it is a defective unit...
or, more likely, that it is a hobby grade unit or a handheld unit.
Handhelds are slightly effected (more so) by temperature than table tops
(although the difference would not be so great to explain the .005 dif
you noticed). Furthermore... those $50-100 hobby models are dubious if
not junk too often. For that kind of money, you could get 2 or 3 top
shelf glass hydrometers that are much more accurate and never need
calibrated.>
I would be curious about your experiences with
refractometry to determine SG/salinity. thanks tom
<if you do have a
lab grade or table top refractometer, then I am honestly at a loss to
explain the discrepancy short of defect. Refractometers are nifty
toys... but really not necessary. Use your plastic hydrometer for
convenience and safety (no matter how many times I call them junk <G>)
and have a decent $20-50 professional glass hydrometer on hand to spot
check the plastics periodically with. Best regards, Anthony>
Store owner looking to measure saltiness
I own a local pond
retail store and I need a tool to accurately measure salt in my koi pond
do you sell this tool?
<Mmm, no. We don't actually sell anything but
the books we produce, but you can likely buy a refractometer (most
accurate, precise tool... from most any wholesaler that carries marine
gear or etailers. A bunch are listed here:
http://www.wetwebmedia.com/marlinks.htm
Bob Fenner>
Refractometer Problems
Hi guys, just picked up one of these
units...
<Phil here wishing he had a refractometer.>
the unit says
it is calibrated to 0 when shipped, I used a couple of drops of bottled
spring water and got a SG reading of 1.004, then with tap, same reading,
then with tap I boiled for a few minutes, same reading, then tested tank
water 1.027, tested tank water with old hydrometer 1.022, should I think
of the refractometer as accurate (not against the hydrometer as I know
the refractometer is more accurate, but wondering why the reading of SG
with the plain water used), or should I adjust that 1.004 reading down
to 0 and then consider my tank readings to then be accurate, I already
adjusted it down to 0 and now am getting a tank water reading of about
1.024.....Thanks again...
<Hmmm... I would check with the maker of
the unit. It could be that the refractometer was damaged in transit to
your home. But if I was in your shoes I would just adjust the reading
as you have done. Hope this helps! Phil, who is going to check his SG
using the "plastic box"... LOL>
Refractometer Problems
Try testing your refractometer with RO or distilled water. "Spring"
water comes from the ground and has mineral content read by the
refractometer. Same with tap and boiled water would/should
actually be a bit higher still as the actual water evaporates from
boiling. Try it with pure water.
Hydrometer
Hi
guys, looking forward to the new book, it will hit Canada I hope?.....
<indeed... we have several distributors of it waiting for it in CANADA
<G>>
I have a question, I use an old "deep 6" swing arm hydrometer, I
always mix my salt so that it is the same SG as my tank (.024),now I
know about these being calibrated at a temp of 75f,my FOWLR tank is
always at 80-82f.....am I still at .024?,any idea what I am really at?,
does it matter as long as consistent?.....Thanks again....
<mostly
the latter (consistency). Published charts of the temp correction of
salinity over a wide range reveal very little appreciable change. Not
even noticeable between 75 and 80 F on a plastic hydrometer. No worries.
Anthony>
Hydrometers
Hi Bob,
<Hello Tyler>
I have
read your articles regarding the care of one's salinity and I agree that
testing in a separate container helps prevent breakage; however, I
recently bought a new glass hydrometer made by Living Sea, and it is
labeled "Marine Enterprises SALTWATER HYDROMETER/THERMOMETER specific
gravity 75°F". The problem that I have is that the chart that I have
for converting specific gravity to salinity was designed for an
instrument calibrated to read 0 in freshwater at 60°F---I'm presuming
that the instrument I now have is set to read 0 in freshwater at
75°F---how might I compensate for this dichotomy (or where might I find
a conversion chart for 75°F hydrometers)? Or does the difference in
index temperatures matter at all?
<Does matter, or should I state "it
can". Likely at the tank temperature you're going to be at this device
will register a couple of thousands (0.002) low on actual specific
gravity. You could do an actual check (with water of calibrated
temperature and raising it to tank temperature) to see what the
difference actually is. I would do this and make the mental adjustment
(that is, that a measure of 1.025 is likely to read about 1.027). The
usual note here: More important than the actual specific gravity is its
constancy and even more important the composition of the media...>
Thanks for your advice,
Tyler Reynolds
<Welcome. Bob Fenner>
Re: Hydrometers
So the difference will be arithmetic, not
geometric or parabolic?
Or is it simply too similar to warrant
distinction within the boundaries of 1.020 and 1.025?
<The latter.
The relationship is not arithmetic, but differential, however "close
enough" w/in the "nuts and bolts" of actual aquarium practices to be so
here. Bob Fenner>
Thanks,
Tyler
Measuring Salinity... the
long way around the barn 6/23/03
I have a TDS meter and I was
wondering if its reading could be used as a measure of salinity which
could be converted to specific gravity.
<really not necessary/ideal>
I got a link to an interesting site in the forums, but I can't get a
good correlation between what my tank reads on the TDS meter and its
specific gravity. I was hoping you could enlighten me.
<use you
instruments instructions or a good conversion web site to work in
reverse. A good average for seawater is 32ppm (about 1.024 SG)>
My
understanding is that a TDS meter basically measures the conductivity of
water (so many miliSiemens/cm) and then transforms that reading to parts
per million.
<yes... but it can be influenced by other
solids/additives you put in the water>
Conductivity is related to the
solids dissolved and should increase as salinity increases. Can such a
TDS ppm reading be converted to salinity?
<you are an engineer aren't
you <G>?>
If it does, what is the salinity or TDS reading that
corresponds to say 1.025 specific gravity at 80 C?
<your father was
an engineer>
TDS meters are fairly inexpensive nowadays.
<ahhh...
a glass hydrometer (not plastic!) is more reliable, does not need
calibrated... and costs about $6>
It seems they are fairly accurate
and it would be nice if they could be used for more than gauging the
health of the RO membrane in an RO system.
<OK... but over
thought/unnecessary IMO>
Thanks for your help. Henry
<best
regards, Anthony>
- Conductivity & Salinity -
Quick
question: I have recently acquired a Milwaukee conductivity monitor. I
want to use this to monitor the salinity of my tanks, but I cannot find
a table for converting conductivity to salinity at a given temperature.
I have looked all over the Internet. Any idea where I can find a table
or graph? <Well... my only tool available here was the Net, so I used
Google to find this:
http://www.radiometer-analytical.com/all_resource_centre.asp?code=112&s=go
I think you might find the information you need there, but you should
also contact Milwaukee Instruments.>
Thanks, Steve.
<Cheers, J --
>
Hypo-salinity and Hydrometer Accuracy
Hello Bob,
Steven, Jason, and the rest of the crew,
This is my first question
for you so I want to say that your site is wonderful and has provided me
with a wealth of information, which has allowed me to be much more
successful at this hobby than I could have ever thought. Without this
site, I would likely be one of those in and out reefers who drops the
hobby after a year, now I'm hooked for life. I'll keep this short, no
story behind why I'm asking. I am having a problem with hypo-salinity
treatment. I believe that my hydrometer readings are off. I have
three: a Deep Six, a Sea Test box-style, and a floating glass (with a
built in thermometer and made for aquarium, rather than lab use). All
three read differently! So I chose to trust the floater because I have
read the others can drift over time and
both are not brand new. I
have conversion charts galore, but they are worthless if you don't know
the calibration temp of the hydrometer or if the hydrometer is not
accurate anymore. I believe I am failing to maintain a proper
1.009-1.010 SG and that my true SG is more like 1.012-1.013 (this would
be true if the floater were calibrated at 60F). After three weeks in
hypo and several FWD's my fish are still showing spots and scratching a
bit.
>>Do know that there are documented subspecies of Cryptocaryon
irritans that do quite well in low salinity environments.
>Questions: Is there any way that I can mix a test sample of water with
a controlled amount of salt (I have Instant Ocean brand) at a specific
temperature in order to test the accuracy of each hydrometer?
>>Yes. I would first calibrate with distilled water.
>Is there any
other way for me to be sure that I am at the proper SG level?
>>Yes! Invest in a good quality refractometer!
>Even if I am now at
1.013, is it possible for the ich to be so virulent as to survive that,
and continue to re-infect my fish?
>>Yes. This would necessitate
the utilization of copper or formalin treatments.
>Can the spots I
see be bacterial infection from the parasites bursting out during FWD's?
>>Yes, but not so likely as to keep the same appearance of the ich (at
least not in my own experience, secondary bacterial infections really
LOOK like infections).
>With sincere gratitude, Manny
>>Do a
search on Terry Bartelme, he's written quite a bit on ich, treatments,
prevention, etc. Then, I would search the reefs.org library, as well as
Advanced Aquarist for the same. I've only recently learned of the ich
subspecies, both instances mentioned by folks working in Hawai'i. Hope
this helps! Marina
- Specific Gravity & Temperature -
Hi, Hope all is doing well there. I have a 75 gallon F/O tank. My fish
are: 2 percula clowns, 2 lemon butterflies and 1 coral beauty angel.
Please tell me what you recommend for tank temperature and specific
gravity. I have been keeping the tank at 76 degrees and the specific
gravity at 1.021. Thank you, James
<James, I'd shoot for 1.025 for
salinity - it's what the ocean is typically at. As for temperature, you
could go a little higher, but there's nothing wrong with 76F - 76-78F is
ideal.
Cheers, J -- >
Specific Gravity Specifics!
Hi
Scott
<Hi there!>
My salt water aquarium has been running now for
a week now since setup. I mentioned to you that I am trying to sort my
heat issues out and in the last week my tank has been running close to
80 deg Fahrenheit.
<Not too bad...>
What I need to know is does
the temperature affect the salinity reading?
<It can>
I hope this
is not the case as I have my salinity measuring 1.022 which is perfect
right?
<Ya' know what? I used to be a believer in lower specific
gravities for a lot of reasons, but after much experimenting, I've
concluded that natural ocean specific gravity (generally 1.024-1.026) is
the way to go...I shoot for 1.025>
I should have the fans in soon and
also gonna be doing one or two mod.s to the hood of my tank so I can get
more air to circulate.
<Excellent! That can make a difference in the
heat buildup...>
Thanks Again Regards, Ziad Limbada
<My pleasure!
Stay cool! Scott F>
How Do I Use This Thing? Float Hydrometer
Primer
>Hi, I'm setting up a 110g saltwater tank.
>>Cool.
>I was given a glass Saltwater Hydrometer (by Marine Enterprises),
approx 12 inches in height. The problem is: I have no idea how to use
it. No instructions were given with it.
>>No problem. They don't
come with instructions for the most part. It's a float hydrometer, and
it's really easy to use.
>Is there a website with step by step
instructions on how to use the meter properly. This meter has what looks
like little pellet balls and some type of wax in the bottom of it.
Thanks for your response, America
>>Easy-peasy, America, no website
needed. What you will need is something to put some of the water you
wish to measure the salinity of into that is TALL enough to let the
hydrometer float freely. My favorite is a device I make myself out of
clear plastic tubing (you can get this at the fish shop) that is capped
and sealed on one end (needs to be watertight). About 1" in diameter is
fine. Then, you fill it with the water, drop in the hydrometer, and you
want to look at the lines on the really skinny part. There will be one
fat one that's pure water, a salinity or specific gravity of 1.000 -
that's pure water. (Btw, don't measure especially cold or warm water,
make sure it's room or tank temperature - between 73F-82F - as this WILL
affect the proper measurement). So, the hydrometer should float so that
the lines BELOW this 1.000 mark are what hit the top of the water - this
measurement is your specific gravity.
It is at this point that I MUST
urge you to start buying books, because (and please don't take this as
an insult, we all start from a position of no knowledge), if you don't
know how to use the simplest hydrometer made, then I fear there is much
other invaluable information you don't have as well. There are MANY
excellent beginner books, Bob Fenner's "The Conscientious Marine
Aquarist" is one, and you may wish to search for books by Martin Moe,
Jr., C.W. Emmens.. aw heck, to
http://www.reefs.org/library/reading/ and
http://www.reefs.org/library/reading/beginner/beginner.html and
search the database for books on saltwater for beginners. Also, you
will find (if you have regular internet access) that the talk forums for
our site and reefs.org are EXCELLENT for quick information. Our sister
site is
http://www.wetwebfotos.com/talk - know that many of the folks who
answer questions here are "on duty" there. If you do join, let 'em know
that Seamaiden/Sea Maiden sent ya. ;) All my best, and Happy
Holidays. Marina
Hydrometer trouble - 12/18/03
Hi
crew, I've been visiting and reading the FAQ everyday for a year now and
you have helped me many times. <great to hear> Thanks for all your hard
work it is truly appreciated. <tanks a million, bud> A couple of quick
questions, yesterday I decided to do some maintenance on my sump/fuge
which is a 30 gal that feeds my 55 gal reef. My SG has always been
1.024 using a floating glass hydrometer. <very well> I replaced most of
the sumps 30 gal with premixed saltwater, problem is after completing
the water change I broke my glass hydrometer. <DOH!> I went to the LFS
and bought the plastic "box" version, did a read, 1.030 (as you always
say YIKES!). <Don't trust it> I want to start replacing 2 gallons per
day with freshwater to get SG back to 1.025 area. <Woah!!! Get a second
or third opinion. Try either another glass hydrometer or if you know
someone with a refractometer> I understand that consistency is more
important than accuracy, however should I trust the "box" or get a new
glass hydrometer for calibration purposes? <New glass and another
opinion> I don't want to over react based on a possible faulty reading
from the "box". <agreed!!> Also if the 1.030 is accurate, based on 85
gal total water volume, minus 100# LR, do you think 2 gallons per day a
reasonable starting point for moving SG .001 per day? <That should be
about right you could do a little more> I've read of similar events in
the FAQ's, just looking for a "mental" calibration. <get a second or
third opinion if possible> As always thank you for your kind response.
<My pleasure. ~Paul>
Mike
Hydrometer Recommendation
Hi All,
<howdy>
I am looking for a recommendation for a Hydrometer
/ Refractometer for measuring specific gravity.
<your best
bet/value IMO... a glass hydrometer (do spend the extra and get one of
the $20-30 units). These are arguably more reliable then even the
handheld refractometers>
I have the usual cheap one, but am told I
should get a better one for hypo salinity treatments in QT tanks,
etc. If
you have a link of one or can comment on the refractometers
on marine depot (around $70), I would greatly appreciate it.
Thanks,
Andy
<the cheap hobby grade handheld refractometers are good... but
not as great as one sometimes here's about. Reliability in
refractometers is to be found in table mount models (not influenced
easily by temp) and on lab grade equipment. Refractometers that are made
cheaply overseas (imported $15-25 and retailing $50-80) are not always
as good as you might hope for them to be. Whichever you choose... simply
avoid using the plastic hydrometers as a primary. Anthony>
Hydrometer Recommendation 2/3/04
Thanks, do you have a link where
I can find an acceptable glass one (perhaps a brand name)? I checked
marine depot and a couple other places online and can only find the
cheap hobby ones.
<no easy link here I can think of. I have used
the high end hobby ones like Marine Enterprises brand with satisfaction
FWIW. Anthony>
Refractometers 2/14/04
Quick question
regarding refractometer. Love this site!
<thanks kindly>
I have
a plastic hydrometer, which from reading on this site is not the best of
readers, nor was I aware of the cleaning.
<correct... they are not
that reliable or durable. A quality glass hydrometer is actually the
best all around. Do keep both and compare the glass as needed>
Which
I am doing now.... I work in a lab, we have a refractometer which is
checked daily with two controls. One is DI water, reading should be
1.000 +/- 0.2, the other is 8% NaCl with a reading of 1.032 +/-
0.3. The controls are at room temp. I see calibration is mentioned,
and I note on the refractometer that is calibrated every 6 months. Now
can I use this for my salinity checks?
<certainly>
I brought a
sample in before and it was quite a bit lower than my reading with the
plastic one.
<not surprising... some of those plastic hydrometers are
easily corrupted (dried minerals from poor cleaning, dropping/jarring...
and QC>
This refractometer is a Reichert TS meter. If I bring in a
sample from home, the temp on that sample is quite lower than my tank
... my tank is at 78. Will this make a difference in reading?
<the
diff is small but please do simply heat the sample up. Use a water bath
to float your sample in (its container/baggie) to warm up>
This is a
lab refractometer (I work Hemo and Chemistry) we use this refractometer
for urines, though usually this is only used after a problem with our
automated instrument. So can I use this, does the temp make a
difference.
<yes... but there are published scales for
compensation... mere fractions of a difference though>
When I do any
testing on my aged salt mix (to replace weekly changes) I always have
the temp matching the tank.
<very important...yes>
Thanks so much
Kris
<best regards, Anthony>
Salt concentration links as
requested 2/2/06
Hi again,
Thanks for your quick
response to my questions. I found these two sites helpful in determining
salt concentrations. They both relate ppt (parts per thousand) and ppm
(part per million) to percentage readings. The first of these is very
reputable and most helpful, and deals most directly with my original
question about ich and salt concentrations. The second deals with koi
pond chemistry but was helpful nonetheless.
http://edis.ifas.ufl.edu/VM007
http://www.koiclubsandiego.org/SUBcategory.php?categoryKey=3&subCategoryKey=19&subCategoryName=
Salinity&PHPSESSID=f7a64e77d6b7b88b6b21f06b6b31ffb3
Thanks again
Phil
<Ah, thank you for this. Will post/share. Bob Fenner>