- Marine Salt Mix, More Follow-up -
I was able to obtain the Tropic Marin 200 gallon mix at Big Al's Online (not too fond of that particular mail order store) at their price of $43.99  plus $20.00 for the shipping. I stopped shopping there awhile ago because  of the bad customer service but I've seen no lower price online for the  Tropic Marin. ThatPetPlace had it for $47.99 and Drs. Foster & Smith $48.99. Anyway $64.00 is even cheaper than my LFS who wants $69.95 plus  tax for the less expensive pail of Instant Ocean. That's why I never use my LFS for aquatic supplies.  And $115.00 you say for a pail of Tropic Marin at your LFS is outrageous! <Is why I switched to Instant Ocean. Thanks for the info.>
Dennis
<Cheers, J -- >

Natural Sea Water- Worth The Effort?
Dear Bob & Staff,
<Scott F. here today!>
I have a quick question about salt water. I was invited over to a friends house to take a look at his reef tank. It was probably one of the best looking tanks that I have ever seen. As we got to talking he told me his secrete was to use regular sea water on water changes (he has been doing this for over three years). He advised me to try it and get back to him in a month. He was convinced that I would see a big difference in the growth and overall appearance of my tank. I am really temped to try it but I fear I might add something bad to the tank.
<A legitimate concern!>
I live on long Island NY so getting water would be very easy. Do you believe there are things in natural sea water that would benefit my tank that a regular salt water mix would not?. Thanks in advance for your advice.
<Why it may seem ludicrous to say that natural sea water is not as good for your system as synthetic, it can be problematic in some instances. Natural sea water is excellent, but a lot of it depends on the source. Water collected form near-shore sources is a potential source of undesirable contaminants. I have regular access to sea water, and have often entertained the idea of taking some home after a day of surfing. However, when you consider the work involved in preparing natural sea water for aquarium use, you may be better off with a good brand of synthetic salt mix and quality source water. On the other hand, if you are prepared to transport, filter, and store natural sea water, and collect it from a good off shore source, it may be excellent to use. In some areas, natural sea water is available from local fish stores. It's generally collected from clean sources far off shore. Do read up on the WWM site about use and preparation of natural sea water in closed systems. Good luck! Regards, Scott F.>

Storing Saltwater
<Evening>
<Please as a side note, do not use html formatting on your emails.  It makes it very hard to read, and it is very time consuming to remove.  Thanks.>
Hello again and thanks as always for the wealth of information you guys provide.
<Will pass along to Bob.>  I've looked thru the archives and cannot seem to find an answer to my specific question.  I broke down my 95 gallon saltwater tank yesterday, preparing for a move next week.  I have all of the water (nothing but water) in 2 large trash cans, covered, on the back porch.  I live in Florida, so it gets pretty warm in the afternoons.  My question is this, being that the water is exposed to a 20-25 degree temperature change every day, is there anything that I can do to preserve the quality of the water, is this temp. fluctuation going to have a negative effect on the bacteria in the water?  Thanks a bunch for your help.
Dean
<Well Dean, Most of your bacteria will be in the rocks, substrate, and on the tank sides.  If you can, the best way to ease a move is to keep the bottom of the tank covered in an inch of water or so and use a bubbler and air pump to keep the bacteria going.  Put some fish flakes or some sort of ammonia in there to keep everything going at least once to ensure the best bacteria continuance to ease or eliminate cycling of the tank again.  Also if your substrate and LR are in separate buckets give them some sort of water movement, like a power head to facilitate O2 conversion. Please do keep the prus objects from the tank like sponges tank decorations and anything else in saltwater as well and you may be able to set everything right back up with very little hassles.  The water itself will be fine, I would check it the day you put it back in  the tank to make sure no large ammonia nitrite or carbon dioxide accumulations have occurred while it was in the bags.  Good luck>
<Justin (Jager)>

Question re: Circulation vs. Aeration of new seawater
Hi crew, <Good day>
I have a bit of a silly question so bear with me. Currently this is my salt water preparation routine. I prepare water via my SpectraPure RO/DI 5 stage filter and then store it in a 30 gallon Rubbermaid barrel and keep it covered with 2 powerheads in it. I take the lid off of it only when I need fresh water for top offs and when I need to mix salt water for my weekly water changes.
When I make saltwater I take out water from this barrel, heat it up and mix in the Instant Ocean salt with a powerhead. I keep this covered in a separate Rubbermaid covered container a minimum (usually a few days) prior to doing a water change.
My question is that I read about how you need to properly aerate water before use. My water is always circulating with the powerheads but there is always a lid on it. Is there a difference between circulating my water with powerheads vs. aerating it to get rid of the CO2?
Do I have to keep the containers uncovered to "aerate" the water a minimum of time before usage? 
<It would be better to keep the containers uncovered when mixing the salt. The CO2 does need to escape. All you need to do is use the aeration feature on your power head. Water should be aerated this way for 24 hours, then add your salt. Adding salt to a CO2 rich water will just deplete the buffers in the new mix. James (Salty Dog)> 

How Much Salt?? Learn the Answer BEFORE Setting Up!
Hello all, great site. I have a question.
<<So do I.>>
How much salt should I be adding to my water change?
<<For future reference, please use proper capitalization, punctuation. I'm somewhat surprised that you're asking this question, but must presume that you've jumped in without much previous education on the subject of marine systems.>>
It is a 75 gallon tank with 150 lbs of live rock and I change 15 gallons once a week but never know the exact amount of salt to add.
<<Well, all salt manufacturers I know of actually have *instructions* on the packaging. That's a great place to start. Then, as the manufacturers probably also tell you (right there on the packaging), you really should have a GOOD quality hydrometer - doesn't need to be a refractometer, lab-grade float hydro is fine - so you can check your salinity once it's mixed so you can match it to the tank's salinity. 
I am compelled to also offer the suggestion that you have a GREAT deal of reading up to do, as this is the THE most basic knowledge ANYONE who endeavors to keep saltwater specimens MUST know. Please start at the Marine section of our site, start with "Set-up", then move on from there. Depending on how fast you can read/absorb the material, in a couple of months you should have more of the knowledge you *should* have had before setting up your own tank. 
After that, you should be reading books and magazines on the subject, we have a reading list on site.
Otherwise, hire a good aquarium service. Marina>>

How Much Salt?? Is That the "Real" Question Here?
Sorry. I think I asked the question wrong, and as far as my typing I'm not at all good at it. Anyway what I meant was I am little confused I read that it was like 1 tablespoon per gallon somewhere on the internet...
<<That is when using as a treatment for certain diseases of certain freshwater fishes.>>
...but I have been adding like 4 cups of salt to my 15 gallon water change, which has never been a problem, but yesterday, after water change the reading was 1.019 which stuck me as odd.
<<Me, too, because at this point I'm not really all that sure what it is you want to know. The amount of salt, as measured by VOLUME, tends to be variable for quite a few reasons. Local humidity may play some part, but also what mineral content is in the mix water (because specific gravity is not a measure only of salts), how diligent is the manufacturer in creating the mix, so on and so forth. This is why it's really imperative to use a starting point (your 4 Cups to 15 gallons, for instance), THEN use that quality hydrometer to measure actual salinity. Also, the salt needs to be completely dissolved, and the water should be the temperature the hydrometer was calibrated at (a reason to use something like a decent refractometer) as well.>>
My next question is can you add salt right away or should I wait a little while to let things settle?
<<Hhmm.. well, a great deal is posted on site re: mixing seawater, I still want you to go through our marine section and read on this information. I *think* you're asking how long after mixing can you use the saltwater, I hope I'm understanding this correctly. In any event, for reasons I cannot explain, aged water seems to be much better for the animals. 24 hours is standard practice, with aeration and heating/keeping to temp. You want the circulation to ensure good mixing, and whether with a powerhead or an airstone, you want surface turbulence to ensure best O2 saturation. I hope this answers the question.>>
Sorry if it sound stupid but till this I never experience any problems with water.
<<Mmm.. doesn't sound "stupid", but now I am unsure if I am giving you answers to what you really need to know. This is why I'm going to strongly recommend again reading through our marine section.. unless you've got freshwater or brackish fishes, then read in those sections. Marina>> 

High Alkalinity in Newly Mixed Water
Dear crew,
<Christopher>
Thanks for the great site. I have been reading on WWM along with other resources for several months, and have recently started my first saltwater tank, which I intend to be a FOWLR tank initially. I'll probably bore you with all of the details of my set-up someday, but for now I have specific issue that's really bugging me.
My question involves calcium/alkalinity. After preparing my first batch of water starting with an RO/DI unit, then aerating/heating x 24 hours, and then adding Instant Ocean, the readings were as follows: alkalinity dKH 16 (Salifert), calcium 520 (also Salifert) with pH 8.3, SG 1.023 and temp 80. Is this even possible?
<Mmm, yes>
I tested the RO/DI water prior to adding salt just to check, which had very low calcium and Alk (as expected I guess).
<Yes, should be>
This evening I prepared another garbage can full (clean Rubbermaid used just for this purpose), using the same protocol and same Instant Ocean batch, and ended up with these numbers: Alk 15, similar pH and salinity at same temp. Now I can't even get a calcium reading. The Salifert kit requires adding "Reagent #3" until the initial pink color turns blue. The problem is it turns blue prior to adding any "Reagent #3", making me think the calcium is very low (?). 
<Shouldn't be>
My 'pre-cured', but overnight-mailed live rock has been in the tank for 5 days and the tank is in need of a water change. For this reason I used 6 gallons (conservative) of this second batch to do so (matched salinity and temperature, but ? calcium concentration). The calcium in the tank (65 gallon with 10 gallons in sump) dropped from around 450 to about 250, checked 1 hour after this water change. 
<Not surprising... this happens... part of my years back pitch to Walt Smith to make "Fiji Gold" products...>
I observed no obvious precipitation. The alkalinity in the tank at this time was 14.7, with pH 8.3. I fear this was a bad move.
<No... no problem>
Do the kits sound obviously messed-up, or is it the owner of the kits?
<Neither>
My plan for tomorrow (Oh, look at the time, I mean later today), is to buy new synthetic seawater mix, take a sample of my tank's water and new mixed water to my LFS for analysis, and consider new test kits if there are discrepancies. I understand Salifert is a good brand, but I can't find an expiration date on the kits. Sorry for the circuitous explanation, but any thoughts or advice would be greatly appreciated.
Thanks,
Chris
<Instant Ocean of late has become something of an anomalous inconsistency... your readings for new water, use with/for live rock curing are fine. Bob Fenner> 

Aging synthetic saltwater and Calcium additions
Hi, Crew!
<Alfred>
The internet is full of information and misinformation. I like browsing through several reef/marine sites, and opinions vary from "XXX is great" to "XXX is the worst thing for an aquarium"... When I want good information, it's WWM that I go to!!!  This place has the BEST information for things aquaria, and the BEST advice -- I'm not saying that to flatter you guys; just saying it matter-of-factly.
<Heee! Am taking your affidavit with me to St. Peter... Wait, I'd miss all my friends>
To my question:
I mix my synthetic saltwater, and follow the "Water4MarUse". 
But this is what I do: 
Aerate FRESHwater for a couple of days... Add salt and mix/aerate for another couple of days. In my tank, I dose Kalkwasser via drip (to replace evaporation). But what if my new saltwater mix is lower in calcium levels, and I do a major water change (say close to 100%)?
<I would not change out this much water unless there was a real emergency>
I know that adding lots of calcium to a tank will raise the ph too high, but what about if I add calcium directly to the aerating mix? This may raise the ph too high, but there's nothing there anyway...
<A good plan>
If this is possible (adding, say, a teaspoon of calcium hydroxide to a 20 gallon mixing container), when should I add it? While aerating the freshwater mix, or after I've added the salt?
<I would add it after... adding before will work, but can/will create precipitation problems>
I figured (and please correct me if I'm wrong) that if I aerate it (I normally aerate it for 3-7 days), the ph would "normalize" anyway. Then my saltwater mix for water changes would have higher calcium.
Thanks, crew! --Alfred
<There are a few ways to augment calcium and pH... These and their rationale are covered, archived on WWM. I applaud your efforts at pre-mixing, storing water... a very good idea. Bob Fenner> 

Brown slime in make-up water 5/16/05
Dear Crew: I use a 20 gallon Rubbermaid covered pail for my make-up water. It's heated, circulated, and aerated. I'm getting brown slime in the pail. What to do? Thanks. Mitch
<I have the same problem. Occasional bleaching and drying of the container seems to help, as does using all of the water within a couple of days. Also, although it is kind of gross, I have never had any problems because of it. Best Regards. AdamC.>

Preventing Salt from Caking
Hi Team, 
<Hello Lyndon>
I usually buy the 8KG bag of IO salt, and I use it and then store it away in an airtight container and store it away in a cool dark place...however when its time for the next water change its always lumpy.  Is there any way to keep the moisture out to ensure it stays free flowing like when we open the pack ?  Alternatively does this caking cause any loss to the salts effectiveness ?
<Sounds to me like you live in a humid zone. I've always put my salty in zip lock bags and never had any caking problems. Maybe your air tight container isn't so air tight. Shouldn't cause any loss of it's effectiveness though, unless it is going to be kept for long periods of time. James (Salty Dog)> 
<<Editor's note: Lyndon and others may want to try the old "grandmother's/retauranteur's trick" of putting some uncooked rice into a piece of hosiery or netting and dropping it into the bag of salt mix.  The rice is both non-toxic and will help absorb some of that excess humidity.>>

My pH is Low
Hello Crew,
<Shaun>
I have a question for you that none of my LFS seem to have an answer. My Ph and Alk. always seem to run low. Ph runs 7.8 to 8.1 (night to day) and my Alk. seems to always fall to 5 or 6 dKH. I bought Seachem Marine buffer 8.3 and added it to my water change bucket 1/4 teaspoon to 5 gallons and use Reef Crystals. I aerate the water for 2 days prior to adding the buffer and salt with a power head and keep aerating for about 5 days after. Also I use distilled water.
<Mmm, why? Is your tap/source water "that bad?"... You are likely missing a good deal of needed mineral by going this expensive water route>
The problem is that when I just mix the salt everything is fine but if I add the Marine buffer I end up with a brown film on the surface of the water and coating the bucket and powerhead. I tested this water and found elevated ammonia and nitrite levels. The bucket is an old Reef Crystals bucket so I wouldn't think this is the cause. Any ideas?
<Strange... SeaChem and Aquarium Systems products should produce no such result...>
Thanks, Shaun.
<Don't know the root cause here, but I would try finding a source of reverse osmosis treated water (check with your fish stores... or buy, install, use your own... especially if there is real trouble with your tap)... and see if your water quality improves, you lose the mysterious brown scum. Bob Fenner>

Another Natural Seawater Question (with Ozone), 30 April 2005
I read the Water4MarUse, and the associated FAQs, as well as reading how you favor artificial salt mixes (consistency, ease of use, purity, etc) as opposed to natural seawater. I also have read Martin Moe's chlorinate-dechlorinate procedure.
<Okay>
Bob Fenner also says "store in dark for a couple of weeks, then bleach, dechlorinate, decant or diatom filter (and UV, aerate, ozonize if you want) in-between storage and actual use" 
<This is one way to render NSW relatively "safe" for aquarium use>
In my current reef tank (50 gallons), I use Tropic Marin with the "Water4MarUse" method (premix, store).  I'm planning a BIG tank (500 gallons), and at the current conversion rate, Tropic Marin costs me about US$50 for 150 gallons, whereas the natural saltwater (plenty of it around here) would cost me less than US$5 for 150 gallons -- so Tropic Marin is 10x the price (no other salt mixes are readily available -- no Instant Ocean here or the like -- I think SERA is also available, but not very common, and priced like Tropic Marin).
<I see... well thought out, explained...>
One also has to remember that the minimum wage in my 3rd World country (Philippines) is approximately US$5/day ($130/month, or $1,560/annum), so when someone says that maybe Tropic Marin is about the same price as in the USA, it SEEMS much more expensive for us (indeed, a luxury). 
<Yes>
My question is regarding ozonization of Natural Saltwater -- do I really have to chlorinate-dechlorinate, if I practically make the water sterile using ozone (say, using a 200 mg ozone generator non-stop in 25 gallons or so for a few days, then letting it rest in the dark with cover for another few days)?
<This chlorination process is cheap compared with importing pests, parasites...>
Would ozonization of this sort have any bad effect on the Natural Saltwater? And is this a BAD idea?
<Not a bad idea, just not as complete a one as sterilization through chlorine use>
I do want to work on my big tank, but the cost of salt/water changes is a deterrent. Yes, I know why WWM Crew in general prefers synthetic (and it's what I use on my smaller 50 gallon reef).  Actually, I don't mind the procedure set forth by Moe, and (y)our dear Bob F, but is the "couple of weeks" in the dark necessary, and would "super-ozonization" be anything useful?
<The O3 use is of benefit, just not nearly as much as the Cl2>
Thanks!
<Do factor in the need for much more frequent, larger water changes with the use of the NSW... the lack of buffering, yellowing... Not as much as a bargain as it may seem... However natural water is used in many (though not all, especially the more modern) public aquariums... for the very maintenance, disease and pest avoidance issues mentioned. Bob Fenner> 

Salt mix reviews by Shimek
I recently read an article by Dr. Shimek comparing different commercial salt mixes using urchin reproductive egg survival rates. Could you give me the link to it as now I can't find it anywhere. Thank you so much! Appreciate all your help!
Jo Lynn
<Mmm, I would ask over on ReefCentral where Ron hangs out. Bob Fenner>

Storing Seawater
>Hi there!
>>Greetings!
>I am hoping to be able to store enough seawater to last a couple of months at a time, is this ok?
>>Yes.
>Do I need aeration, filtration, access to sunlight etc?
>>Aeration, yes, generally a pretty good idea. Prevents excess precipitation, keeps the O2 levels up. If it's natural seawater, then you definitely want to filter AND sterilize. I'd filter through something like a Magnum 350 diatom filter (usually used to "polish" water, removes very fine particulates). You may even wish to sterilize with a bit of chlorine to be sure nothing unwanted enters, then allow to set out, or use Sodium thiosulfate to dechlorinate should any smell remain prior to use. Other than that, I'd use a heater to keep it warm enough for immediate use should that be necessary.
>Any potential problems?
>>Only if it's not covered well, sterilized/filtered prior to storage.
>Our seawater is very clean and lovely here.
>>Nice, and nice on the pocketbook, too.
>Cheers thanks for such a wonderful resource! Emma
>>Quite welcome, and I'm glad you have this resource. I find it's far better and easier to use than salt mixes, encourage folks to make use of such (as long as unpolluted from runoff, etc.) whenever I can. Marina 

Calcium and carbonate hardness
Hi Guys.. (No gender bias intended)
<None taken>
Man what a great site. I've been doing this long enough to remember the only good source of info being printed materials like Moe's Marine Aquarium Handbook, and college textbooks on marine biology, not that they weren't, and still are, a great source of info. It's almost mind-blowing the amount of good (as well as useless) info out there now, and its great to have such a knowledgeable and respected staff to sort through the bull%#$@ or fish poop as it may be.
<Ha!>
I work at a local mom and pop LFS part time, and doing some aquarium maintenance service. I've been working on and off for the last 15 years or so in the fish trade starting as a employee at a pet store in New Mexico while I was going to college there, still the best job I ever had and was lucky to start out at a place where there were so many knowledgeable people who cared about the hobby, just wish there was more money in it :) Anyway, I'm rambling and haven't even asked my question.
<I understand... had/have a similar background>
The query involves a problem I'm (as well as a few customers of mine are having) with KH and CA concentrations (I know I know don't fall asleep yet). Just wanted you to know that I have a pretty firm grasp of the fundamentals, although I'm constantly amazed by what I don't know, and I have perused the previous posts pretty thoroughly, but I'm still stuck. The Issues are dangerously high calcium, 650ppm and up depending on the test kit, (and I have tried several) accompanied by a higher than normal K. I know this is next to impossible as the only issues I've had in the past entailed proactive measures to keep CA and KH up to reasonable levels. This is not; however, an isolated event as I have seen this problem several times, and all without some kind of precipitation event AKA "snowstorm". With my customers I have always assumed it was due to blindly dosing with 2 part buffers and not testing for results until too late.
<Commonly this is so>
I always recommend the cessation of any additive as well as a series of water changes to get things under control.
<Our standard spiel as well>
Magnesium levels were also checked and adjusted as I've found low levels of this can skew CA levels.
<Yes>
I was always amazed at the congruous high levels of CA and KH, as I thought this was impossible, or at least very unlikely, for more than a few hours at a time, something has got to give, but I've seen this happen for weeks based on testing and retesting with differing brands of reagents.
<Can indeed "happen"... with the influence of other compounds present...>
Here's the kicker, for me anyway, I just set up a 30 gallon reef tank in my office not the first (or the 20th) I've set up and I'm having the same issue! Me, this does not happen to ME, I solve other peoples problems, I don't actually HAVE problems, lol, I'm really not that egotistical no problems to solve equals an uninteresting hobby, right. Jeez someone edit me I'm getting long winded, and now I'm writing about how long winded I am and. Its just that I don't get out much and.... AHHH!!!!
<Perhaps a small vacation...>
The new setup is a 30 gallon cube with a 5" DSB, 40 lbs live rock (or "once live" rock, freebies from the bottom of the rock culturing pool) Remora skimmer a couple powerheads and about 80 watts of PC light, pretty standard. I've added nothing to the tank except Oceanic salt mixed with RO/DI to the sg of 1.024, and a few hermits. My calcium levels are 660ppm and my KH is 130 mg/L, yes that is not a misprint, and it has been there for over a week.
<This is likely due to the Central Garden and Pet salt mix>
The tank appears to be normal no precipitation normal new live rock stuff coming out, tube worms, few bristle worms, the Aiptasia and the rock anemones seem to be doing fine lol, little bit of diatom growth, start of some green algae. This is where I would normally start dosing some calcium gluconate to kick off the coralline algae but I don't think that's prudent, obviously. My other parameters are normal pH 8.0 (a little low maybe) NH3 up a little for a few days now at 0, same with NO2, no phosphate, no NH3 yet. Like I said I have added no life except my "once live" rock and the hermits.  Should I do anything proactive to bring these ridiculous levels down.
<Yes... switch synthetic salt brands>
Something beside a water change, and yes, the salt mixed with RO and tested in a separate container tests out equally scary. There is some variance between test kits but they all test within 20-30 ppm for Ca2+,and 10 mg/L KH. I'm worried that at any second my tank is going to turn into a 30 gallon snow globe, no shaking necessary with the help of my powerheads keeping the flakes in suspension, not what I had in mind. Help.
<We've had a few reports re the Oceanic brand and these issues. Look into making a deal (for volume) for Instant Ocean IMO... Bob Fenner>

Re: calcium and carbonate hardness, Oceanic salt mix
Thanks for the reply.
<Welcome>
I have heard by some that Oceanic brand salts have higher than normal CA levels, but lower KH. My batch seems to have high levels of both.
<This is a highly inconsistent product>
I have heard some GREAT reviews of this salt so thought I'd try. My guess is that the people who have had good luck had a pre-existing set up and switched to Oceanic. If they had low CA and ALK then a PARTIAL water change with this dissolved rock could actually improve their water conditions, in a reef that was already established and calcium hungry.
<Correct>
But for new setups, never again. I will be switching back to IO or TM, so will all my customers.
<Ah, both good products>
Just ordered my Reef Invertebrate book, can't wait.  A.J. Ginther
<I look forward to "hearing" your review. Bob Fenner> 

- Preparing Saltwater & Tiger Barbs -
Howdy All!
I have a 75g saltwater tank, and I pre mix RO water a week in advance.  I store the water in a 5 gallon bucket.  The bucket has heater and a Maxi-Jet powerhead on top with the venture thing hooked up, with the output pointing at the water surface.  Is this optimal? <It's just fine... exactly what I do, except that I use a trash can.> Would an air stone in the bottom be better? <Would help only minimally... the powerhead is doing the lion's share of the work.> Does it make a difference? <Only slightly.> Should I leave my heater on all the time, or just turn it on the day before I'm going to do my water change? <I only plug the heater in when I need it, granted here in South Florida that isn't very often, but... the day before is just fine provided the water comes to temperature by the time you need it.>
Also, I set up a 37g freshwater aquarium for my 5 green tiger barbs.  That's all the fish I'm currently planning on having.  Should I do anything similar for their water changes? <Not really... freshwater fish just aren't as discriminating about the particulars of their water.> I understand tiger barbs are somewhat hardy, but I want them to be as happy as possible.  Which brings me to another question... is 5 too few?  Would the fish be happier if I put a few more in, or do you think they'd rather just have the extra space? <I'm a fan of understocking, although you probably could fit one or two more in there without too many problems. More on these fish here:
http://www.wetwebmedia.com/FWSubWebIndex/BarbsDaniosRasborasArt.htm >
Thanks much!
- Chad
<Cheers, J -- >

Greenish Yellow Saltwater Mix (2/10/05)
Hi guys and gals!!!! 
<Howdy. Steve Allen with you tonight.> 
I sure am glad you are here for all of us novice fish people. 
<We're all novices at something.> 
Ok my question may be really simple or really hard I do not think there is a middle of the road here. I have just changed synthetic salts for my salt tank. I went from Coralife to Instant Ocean. My problem is when I added the Instant Ocean to my saltwater holding tank for water changes. It immediately turned an amber green color. 
<Weird!> 
It has not reverted back. I did not mix the two different salts together the holding tank was rinsed out before I changed salts. I ran a check of pH, nitrates, nitrites, calcium, chlorine and chloramines. pH is normal, nitrates, nitrites 0, and chlorine chloramines did not register, calcium was low about 370 ppm. I am at a loss here and do not want to use this in my tank, unless the color change will go away and will not harm my tank. 
<Smart man. Remembering High School chemistry, such a sudden color change must be from some sort of chemical reaction. I would not risk using it if I were you. It's too risky just for a few bucks' worth of salt. I suggest you contact the maker to see if they can explain this. In your shoes, I'd throw that water out, thoroughly clean the vessel with clean water, and try again.> 
I looked in the FAQ's section and found nothing to help me there. Thanks Craig 
<You're welcome. Hope this helps. Let us know if the manufacturer has any answers.>

Cheap salt?
Ok, I've searched your site under sea salt, Instant Ocean, salt bargains and salt shipping without the results I was seeking. Would any of you lovely marine aquarists out there be able to tell me where I can get a good deal on s&h of Instant Ocean?
<Am sure... though these deals do come and go... and the Net is "forever"... so info. does get dated quick!>
For the 150 gal bucket we pay $69 here in Alaska and up to $99 for the 200 gal bucket (if still available at LFS).  For a while I was getting salt shipped through PetSmart paying only $18 in s&h for 2- 200 gal buckets. Now they seemed to have closed the loop hole and want over $40 for s&h of just one of the 150 gal bucket.
<A bargain>
Any help would be appreciated. Thanks so much for the great site. You all have saved me a lot of time, money and fish/livestock loss by the hours I've spent searching your site and reading your books. Thanks so much for the free resource.
<You're welcome... for good deals I would ask, browse the various BB's in our interest: ReefCentral, Reefs.org... Bob Fenner>

Re: unidentified Algae, BGA
Thank you for your reply Bob.  I spoke with Boyd Enterprises regarding their product Chemi-Clean.
<Very nice boys... I knew their father, Dick Boyd... a real innovator>
  Would you recommend I try this product in my reef to rid the Cyano that is very present as "red slime" in my fuge and as the "blue-green Cyano" you recently identified from the reef pics I sent you?  They claim this product will have no adverse effects on the reef nor will it create any phosphate problems.  Do you agree and is it worth a try?
<Mmm, not entirely. Try as I might, I have not been able to find what this product is... other than that it does not contain Erythromycin...>
By the way, Boyd himself (son) also made a few recommendations to me.  He suggested I switch from Oceanic Salt mix to Tropic Marin.
<A good idea>
My Calcium is high 500 and has been as high as 550+ with no addition of Calcium.  He claims that when testing Oceanic, many batches contained very high Calcium levels 700+.
<Yikes!>
I am going to test the calcium on the batch I am currently using. He also recommended that I stray away from feeding my reef the delicious frozen concoction 3X per week made basically of Eric H. Borneman's recipe and try "Phycopure" made by Algagen and perhaps some "Cyclops Eeze". 
<Another worthy suggestion>
It was also recommended to continue to feed my fish pellets/Nori as I have been on alternate days. He felt my frozen cube recipe was just blowing too many nutrients around the reef.  Your thoughts would be appreciated.
<All sound good. Bob Fenner>
Thanks again.
Paul Maresca

Pre-Filtration & Marine Salts 1/12/05
Anthony,
<cheers>
I very much appreciate your reasoned response to my questions regarding mixed-bed versus rechargeable deionization.  You have sold me on the concept of minimizing waste.  
<always welcome my friend... I do aim to be sensible/practical>
I'd like to pose two follow-up questions:
(1) Which prefiltration assembly do you recommend for rechargeable 2-column deionization systems such as the KATI/ANI?  The only one I can find is the SpectraPure FA-PRE-0.5M-20 but I hope that you can direct me to more affordable prefiltration systems.
<many possibilities here ... depending on the quality of your source water running through it. But, if your tap water is nothing out of the ordinary (like iron-rich well water requiring an extra metal sponge, or silicate-rich water needing chemical media, etc.) then I say just go to your local Home Depot or DIY store and get a cheap drinking water pre-filter unit. Two canisters cost (well under) $50. First stage will be 1 to 5 micron floss... second stage is simply good quality carbon. If you are really handy, you can DIY home make canisters out of PVC for even less money. If you want to get fancy, have two floss pre-filters (12 micron and a 5 micron to follow)... and better still... have Poly-filters (Poly Bio Marine) after the carbon stage>
(2) What brands of marine salts will complement the Kold Ster-il filtration system?  Since the Kold Ster-il system does not filter certain minerals (calcium, magnesium, strontium, barium) and buffering compounds (carbonates, bicarbonates, hydroxides) from my pH 8.1 tap water, which marine salts contain lower amounts of these minerals and compounds? Regards, Paul.
<without spending a fortune... I'll say that Tropic Marin is presently the best you can buy. I will add though that I generally like Instant Ocean's QC and affordability in my region and use it more often. Anthony>

Proper water change technique with shrimp 1/5/05
Happy new to all. As I have been extensively reading in the FAQ archives and in Bob's book which I purchased a couple days ago I have rudely discovered that I have been doing the water changes very wrongly. <Happy new year!  Bob's book will help a lot, but let's see what's going on...>
I now have two skunk cleaner shrimp and three peppermint shrimp which I do not want to harm in the next water change so I was wondering if I have the water change steps down or if I am missing a step. If I am missing an important step please be kind enough to inform me of it because I will be truly heartbroken if something happens to my shrimp.  At the moment I use Oceanic sea salt mix but would like to switch to Instant Ocean. How do I go about this without killing my shrimp?  <There is nothing to worry about when switching brands of salt.  In fact, I generally rotate among a couple of brands to get "the best of all worlds".>
Is this a good method for changing the water in my 54 gallon? I've come up with this method from going through the archives but I am still  incredibly confused do please bear with me.
- mix salt and water in a clean Rubbermaid container with water conditioner
-aerate with a stone overnight
-check PH
-If ph is off fix with baking soda or buffer
-check temperature
Do I need a powerhead or no? <Nope.  Either an air stone or a powerhead is fine.>
Is overnight long enough to sit? If not then how long? If there is anything else I need to do please tell me or fill in the steps. I live in Naperville, a suburb of Chicago so the water is in between city water and country water I guess.. (if that makes any sense). :) Please help me through this. -Heather  <You did not mention checking the salinity.  Overnight is plenty of time.  If you are having to adjust the pH of the water, something may not be right.  I would check the pH and alkalinity of your tap water and consider using an RO unit.  I would strongly suggest looking into CMAS (Chicago Marine Aquarium Society).  Aquarium societies are outstanding places to learn and grow as a hobbyist, and the members may have  some insight into your local water quality.  Overall, your technique sounds fine.  If the salinity and pH are close to your tank values, your shrimp will be fine.  Best Regards.  AdamC.>

Mixing salt water in the tank...
Hi Blundell,
<< Hi there. >>
I am setting up a 130 gallon tank and I am planning to mix the saltwater mix directly in the tank itself.  My problem is I put the substrate in already and I have already put the RO water that I was going to use mix the salt.
Is this a problem or can I go ahead and mix the salt even when the substrate is in there already?
<< You can mix it in the tank, no problems.  I've done it many times.  But not if you have live substrate, like live rock. >> <... Do NOT do this... AdamB, are you high? RMF>
Thanks!
Martin
<<  Blundell  >> <Trade in your lab-coat... RMF>

Mixing salt water
Hi Blundell,
Thanks for the response on mixing saltwater in my tank even with the sand in it.  I ended up doing that and everything seems to be coming out fine.  I have a question on mixing salt mixes in a separate vat/container.  I mixed about 25 gallons of salt mix with tap water yesterday night and tested the water today for salinity and PH.  The salinity comes out fine, about 1.024 give or take, but the PH is at 9.0!  Way too high!  My question is should I just let it age for another day or so before taking some new readings?  << Yes, and it may help to have a powerhead in there to stir it up. >> I've
always done it this way and never had a problem though I remember I never did take readings so soon after mixing the salt.
<< When it doubt, let it sit for a while, no reason not to. >>
Thanks again!
Martin
<<  Blundell  >>

Supplements and natural sea water
Hello,
I have a problem I have my 155 reef running with some soft polyp corals, brains, featherdusters and some more corals. They have about a week already everything looks good but my gorgonians died. I haven't added <sic> no supplements and the water was from the ocean but cured for a couple of weeks. << Gorgonians often need lots of filter feeding. >> Yesterday I bought liquid calcium from Kent Marine and in the directions it says to add 1/4 of a teaspoon per 50 gallons tank capacity each day depending on the animal load. What should I do I through 3   1/4 teaspoons and I don't think it seems quite reasonable to throw every day this but that is why I am asking you? << Well for now, and with ocean water, I wouldn't add any supplements at all. >><RMF definitely would... NSW is almost always woefully deficient in ready alkaline reserve and biomineral content> what should I do and what supplements should I be adding now please help me I don't want to lose my corals. << Add nothing to natural sea water. >> What about Kalkwasser and strontium and magnesium? << Nope, don't use them. >> please help me. Another question I am feeding my corals with
a Coralife liquid target food for invertebrates and with a syringe I target feed all of them once a week and also I give my anemones this is this ok? << Yes this sounds like a good idea. >>
Any suggestions? << Feeding, water changes, and lots of light is the best thing you can do. >>
Thank you
<<  Blundell  >> <...>

Natural sea water continued
Thanks for the quick reply, I still have some doubts though, the natural sea water that my tank has right now I bought it and it was cured, but my question is if I bring seawater from the beach but I would go away from the shore to get it and bring let it sitting in a 55 gal tank for some weeks between each water change, should I put a powerhead in it or leaving it just sitting there. << I would probably use it right away.  If you do wait, then I would have a pump in there. >> Is it good to use it after a couple of weeks after sitting? << Probably okay.  I would use it as soon as I could. >>
How should I do after I bring it so it is good to do the changes? << Why would it be bad? >> My tank is
155 gal how much should I change and in what period of time? and the water that I am replacing in the sump if it is tap water and I leave it sitting should I use antichlorine? And if it is Reverse Osmosis can I just pour it directly? << I just add it directly.  Slower the better on top off, but I just add about 2 liters at a time. >> But I can save a lot of money with the sea water because I have a house up in the beach and wouldn't cost me nothing, so if you can please help me. << If I had seawater I would use it all the time.  Not sure where you are located but if it is tropical I would use seawater all the time. >>
Thank you much
<<  Blundell  >>

Natural sea water and supplements continued
Thank you much for replying, yes I am located in the tropical I will be
collecting the water from the Atlantic side of Panama, << I'm jealous. >> how frequently should
I do the changes? << Well I'd say a 10%-20% every month would be great. >> and no supplements have to be added right like Kalkwasser
etc..? << Nope, not supplements. >>
Well thank you much
<<  Blundell  >>

Scripps Sea Water
I have been reading over the MANY older FAQ’s about natural sea water vs. mixing your own, and am still wondering whether or not it’s a good idea (I did also read http://www.wetwebmedia.com/seawater.htm). Currently I have a 75 gallon FO tank, but am going to be buying a 125 or a 150 gallon tank in the next couple of days – which will be setup mainly as a reef tank with some fish here and there.
   While the cost of buying salt mix is miniscule when looking at the overall cost of setting up this new system, If I can cut down on some of the expense by using sea water here and there, that would be great.
<No new update here... that is, using natural water still has the same real and potential downsides relatively... being bulky, heavy, messy to tote about, having little inherent alkaline buffering capacity, presenting the same possibilities of biological and chemical pollution, import of pests, parasitic disease>
   I wanted to maybe start off using all synthetic sea water to cycle and get things going – or should I use all natural sea water?
Assuming I use all “synthetic”  and the system has been up and running for some time… I was thinking of maybe substituting some of my synthetic water changes with the real sea water – I mean come on it's FREE =)
<I strongly encourage your attendance in the local Marine Club... you can call Ron Elander at Octopus' Garden and ask him for Maurice Bullock's phone number, the site URL on Yahoo... ask him his personal experiences with Scripps water...>
   It just seems that using natural sea water is more touchy, and that there is more preparation in making sure its ready for the system – while with synthetic is more or less mix and pour in comparison.
Thanks for your help
Leon.
<I am in agreement with your stance. Bob Fenner>

Kent Water & T82-LoSi
I am trying to duplicate some experiments that were conducted at the University of Washington and published on the web.
<Okay>
The main solution that was used was 70% Kent Water and 30% T82-LoSi (low silicate) media/solution for the purpose of making artificial freshwater.
<Okay...>
The web search turns up nothing, except for Kent Marine which supplies Kent this & that. Do have any information or any suggestions where I may go to find out more about those components. Note, the University must have lost the expertise because they tried and cannot help.
<Are you inquiring as to the make-up of the Kent synthetic salt mix itself? I would contact them re... http://kentmarine.com/
maybe ask for a copy of their MSDS sheet re. Bob Fenner>
Thanks,
Dave Fashenpour

Natural sea water and artificial sea water
Thanks for the quick response, Blundell.  Just one more follow up question.
Regarding the new batch of salt water, is it okay to start putting fish, inverts, coral in it already?  << Well, probably not.  I would say that 50% new salt water is the highest percentage I would use when adding fish or corals.  Adding a little new water at a time is a good habit. >> Is it okay to mix natural seawater with the artificially mixed kind? << Absolutely.  Great idea. >> <Actually... a very poor idea... RMF>
Thanks again!
Martin
<<  Blundell  >>

Nitrites and little white bugs
Hi Blundell!  I have some general questions:
<< Hi. >>
1.    I recently mixed a batch of artificial salt into purified water in a 7.7 gallon tank.  No fish, no rock, no sand, no nothing.  Just a power head.
I've had it running for about a week and when I took the PH today it was at about 8.1 or so but the Nitrite level was .05!  My question is what is causing it? << I'm guessing some very small impurities in the salt.  But that is nothing to worry about.  If you were to add one teaspoon of flake food to that tank and test the water in a week that number would be much much higher. >> There's nothing in the water to produce ammonia!  Am I missing
something?
2.    I have a 20 gallon container that I am using to cure live rock in.  I have an 800 gph power head circulating the water.  It's been in there for 3 days and I am using natural sea water. << You are fortunate to have that resource. >> I took the Nitrite and, as expected,
it is off the charts.  I took the PH and it is at about 7.3 or so.  Do I need to take steps to raise up the PH or do I concentrate on getting the Nitrite level to 0 first.
<< I'd change water.  I think that will solve both areas during this cycling process. >>
3.    Is there anything I can add to lower the Nitrite level more quickly in either established tanks?
<< Hmmm, not really.  I think move live sand and rock always helps, and then just giving it time. >>
4.    I am seeing what looks like little white bugs is the best description I can use for these little critters in my 24 gallon marine tank.  They are on the glass.  I have some live rock in there, a Clown Trigger, a small eel, a couple of damsel fish and