Red Tide... dangers of using natural seawater - 01/24/06
Gentlemen,
<... and some ladies here>
Thank you very much for your services.  Your site is always the first place I look for answers. I got a quick question about red tide. I collected
natural sea water from a local spot yesterday (Captiva, FL). The water quality is usually excellent.  However, while collecting I noticed very
dense particle matter in the water that made it look cloudy.
<Yikes....>
I figured it was just suspended sand, so I would let the water settle over night, siphon it out, filter it, and be good.
<... real seawater should be thoroughly and religiously treated... for a couple of weeks... in the dark, possibly with bleach/chlorine, dechlorinator, decanted... See WWM re.>
However, curiosity got to me and I looked at some of the water through a microscope. There was some really great stuff, and some not so great.  I was
able to ID a couple K. Brevis cells.  I had checked on Floridamarine.org for red tide and it said:
"Southwest Region: Samples collected this week from Mullet Key in southern Pinellas County and Anna Maria Island in northern Manatee County contained very low concentrations of Karenina brevis, the Florida red tide organism. All other alongshore samples collected between Pinellas and Collier counties contained no K. brevis. In the Florida Keys K. brevis concentrations ranged from not present to very low in three samples collected southwest of
Sugarloaf Key and was not present in samples collected southwest of the Marquesas Keys. Offshore sampling from Sarasota to Lee County late last week detected K. brevis at medium concentration in 1 of 15 samples at a site 26 miles west of Englewood."
What I wanted to know is if this low level of K. brevis could cause damage to my 60 gal reef?
<Yes... if conditions permit, these algae will reproduce...>
If so, is the damage only to fish, or will it affect corals as well?
<All life, indirectly>
Thank you very much for your help.
Sincerely yours,
David
<Thank you for sharing. I have numerous experiences (most second-hand thank goodness) with wipe-outs from natural seawater use. Bob Fenner>

Marine water treatment, fish farm in Bali
Hi Bob,
<Hello Charles>
I have read your news forum daily and I must say you are simple amazing like a walking dictionary in aquaria industry. Thanks for enlightening those like us who's still figuring out bits and pieces of aquaculture knowledge. I have indeed gained a lot by just reading your aquaria news in the forum.
Hope to meet you one day.
<Me too>
I'm currently running a marine fish farm and would like to know any affordable and effective ways to sterilize my system water. Currently I'm using 2 UV light tubings for 15,000 litre of water in my holding however one aquarist told me to get commercial grade with multiple UV tubings in order to be effective. But getting commercial grade UV light tubings prove to be very expensive. How abt ozonizer for 15,000 litres of water?
<Could be done... seek out the larger Sander's (made in Germany) units. If you have room, storing the water in the dark for a week or two, possibly bleaching it (with commercial concentration sodium hypochlorite) THEN dechlorinating it (likely with thiosulfate) are options as well>
I have tried submerging LR in fiber glass but in less than a week most of them were dead. DO they need strong sunlight or constant lightings?
<More needed are good protein skimming, water changes when water quality slides greatly>
What other condition do they need in order to survive?
Is it possible to put my posting in more obvious spot as I'm desperate in finding serious business partner for my uncle Ong Kian Huat in re-activating his existing Bali farm?
<Where do you suggest?>
It's such a waste that this farm with 100 tanks sit lying
there untouched whereas many new investors were trying to start from scratch.
<Agreed. Got to have aquariums, space>
Sorry to email you so many questions as finally I have found a guru which can satisfy all my curiosities in aquaria matters :-)
Pls advise.
Thank you.
Cheers,
Stephen
<Keep on planning, searching, contemplating your possibilities. Bob Fenner>

Natural Sea Water (9-14-03)
Hey Guy,<You got Cody today.>
I’m from Singapore.  Recently I have just converted my freshwater tank to a marine water tank. I did not buy sea salt but instead I took it from my near by beach. the sea water has some how evaporated and is it okay for me to collect some sea water from the near by beach and fill it up again or should I buy sea salt from the salt and mix together with my exiting sea water. pls help me.<You can get water from the ocean but it needs to be treated first.  I would just buy salt as it is much easier.  You can find some info on this here: http://www.wetwebmedia.com/seawater.htm.  Cody>
thanks and best regards, Calvin.

- Using Natural Sea Water - 
Hi guys 
I'm from the east coast of (Queensland Australia) and I was reading about natural sea water on your page. I have access to natural sea water 24/7 it takes no time at all to collect but from reading your page you seem to not like natural sea water? <It's true.> Is this because you are USA based and some don't have the access? <Well... I thought the pros and cons were well laid out in the article, but to answer your question, no... there are several places here on the west coast, and also a couple on the east where sea water is collected, sand filtered and made available to the public. In general, natural sea water is typically inconsistent... red tides, need for supplementation, organic life, and other issues that can cause complete wipe outs if not handled correctly. Have several friends who have been much less lucky than you.> This tank I have now is my 3rd tank being the smallest of all of them only 220L or 60 Gallon in your eyes over a time of 12 years and I have never used any thing but natural and I have never had any problems i.e. disease and I don't quarantine my fish invert or coral. I'm I just lucky? <Very... I'd look both directions before you cross the street next time.> I collect my own fish, invert and coral from the reefs at my door step so to speak.  I don't treat the water at all I don't even heat it up I some time do 20L a week some time I go 3 to 4 weeks and do more. I'm I doing it wrong? Or am I just lucky and I am heading down the path of death for my tanks. <I think you are lucky... and for my own way of thinking, there is always the risk of driving off the cliff, so to speak. If we were talking about playing a game of cards and you had just run the house, I'd tell you to leave the table... most every good streak is followed by something less favorable. But that's just the way I think.> 
Don 
<Cheers, J -- > 

The Real Thing-Or The Synthetic Thing? (Salt Water)
Hello Gang-
<Hi there! Scott F. with you today!>
Merry Christmas ! I hope Santa was good to everyone !
<Sure was! Hope your Holiday was great!>
My question is on the use of "Catalina Water" vs. synthetics like Instant Ocean. I read an article by Dr Shimek (sp?). He makes the case for use of Ocean Water obviously. Have you heard anything on this product ? Is it in wide use among hobbyists ? Pros/ Cons ? What do you recommend ??? Thanks and Happy New Year !  Dan
<Well, Dan - I have used the product a number of years ago, and did not have any bad results from it. However, in recent years, I have heard various concerns posed by hobbyists regarding it's purity and source (some people have implied that the water is collected not too far off shore, with potential exposure to pollutants, etc. Perhaps these concerns are unfounded, but I prefer the control afforded by many of the good synthetic mixes and good source water. Seems kind of funny, but I recommend synthetic for many, many hobby applications over natural sea water. In general, we have many concerns about the use of natural sea water in home systems, which can be found throughout the site (use our Google search feature using the key words "natural sea water"). Hope this sheds a bit of light on the topic. Regards, Scott F.>

Natural vs. Mixed seawater
I have just read your article on Natural Water Verses Mixed and was wondering what water the Birch Aquarium uses. Is it the same as the water from the pier?
>>Hi, Marina here for Bob as he's currently out of the country (unless he took that starship..). To the best of my knowledge the Birch Aquarium uses natural, well-filtered seawater just as the Long Beach Aquarium of the
Pacific uses, though I would guess that Birch's source water might be a little cleaner. Hope this helps! Marina
Thank you, Mark F Hebert 
<As far as I'm aware it is the same source water... most of the "local" tanks are open circuit... and the tropicals largely recirculated. Will cc Birch Aquarist Fernando Nosratpour here re as well for his input. Bob Fenner>

Re: Natural Vs Mixed
Mark Wrote:
>Natural vs. Mixed seawater
>I have just read your article on Natural Water Verses Mixed and was wondering what water the Birch Aquarium uses.  Is it the same as the water from the pier?
Hello Mark,
As Bob and Marina both mentioned, the Birch Aquarium is an open system aquarium. We use the same water available to the public, located at the base of Scripps Pier. The water is sand filtered, removing most particulates.
Quite a bit does get past the filters though. This is most obvious when we have red tides. The dinoflagellates causing the red tides get through.
I usually tell hobbyists not to use this water during red tides, when there's heavy surf or when it's raining (runoff). All these conditions make for foul water in a closed system aquarium. Because were open system, nutrient build up is not a major concern.
With that said, we use this water 24/7 and it's been great.
Good Luck,
Fernando
<Thank you for "chiming in" Fernando. Hope to see you soon. Bob Fenner>
Fernando Nosratpour
Assistant Aquarium Curator
Birch Aquarium at Scripps

Keeping Seawater
Dear Bob
<Brian>
I am two minutes from the sea. However, could you please tell me how long can I store seawater in a closed container in a cool shed, before it goes off. I am hoping to breed brine shrimps soon.
<For a few to several weeks... take a look at the very bottom of long-stored water... as there may be appreciable content that accumulates there... and this may be avoided by decanting (yep, the fancy term used for pouring off vino excluding the dregs on the bottom)... maybe by siphoning off the water just above it. Bob Fenner>
Many Thanks
Brian Cotton

Using "The Real Deal" (Natural Sea Water)
Hi,
<Hi there! Scott F. here today!>
I have a 1000L storage tank. (1) I have access to collected sea water. How do I store it.
<A food-grade plastic container in a relatively dark place should do the trick>
I read that I must just leave it for a week or so before I use it. What happens to the die-off of plankton etc. Do I leave
it to settle at the bottom of the storage tank and siphon off the top?
<That's a good method, or you can actually run an inside box  filter with some mechanical media, like Ehfi-Mech>
Your site said you must circulate and aerate mixed saltwater. Do you have to do this for collected sea water as well?
<I would>
(2) I also have access to water from the local oceanarium. Would it be better to use this water instead? Salt mix is really expensive here in South Africa therefore I don't want to mix seawater if I can find a solution to using NSW. Thanks
John Squier
<I agree, John. If you can find a reliable, inexpensive source of quality NSW, by all means use it! If it's good enough for a public facility, it should be fine for hobbyist-level use. Good luck! Regards, Scott F.>

Re: Juvenile Queen Angel is sick, but from what?
Hey Bob,
Just did a 25% water change with NSW from my local inlet, on incoming tide.
<Sorry for the interjection/ruption, but do you do much to the new real seawater before placing it in your systems? We've had some real trouble over many years time (periodically) with just using the raw product on the west coast (U.S.)... most folks now store the new water in the dark for a week or two, others bleach and dechlorinate it... still others use U.V., other novel ways to "kill" what is live in it before applying>
So we'll see what happens in the next couple days with the Queen, Thanks for the input!! 
Now I have a question about my protein skimmer. I unplugged it earlier, before I emailed you, because I was going to add green ex. After I did the water change, I plugged it back in but its not skimming. 
I can hear the pump working but no skim action. I'm going to browse the faq's on the site and see if that has been covered there. I'm sure it has, as everything is!! Thanks for all your help!! Ray
<Is this a Venturi type? You might want to check the intake (blow through it)... or take the whole thing to the sink, take the pump apart (to check for foreign matter on the impeller, spindle...) and clean it thoroughly... Also, do check the intake line to the unit... any obstruction, restriction there will produce this non-result. Bob Fenner>

Re: Juvenile Queen Angel is sick, but from what?
Uh oh. No I just used fresh sea water, but have heard of letting it sit. In this case I just didn't have time/ or any NSW around, but will in the future.
I wonder if water purchased from the local fish store has been treated etc.
<The big brand here on the other coast is not... though some folks claim otherwise. Please read here: http://www.wetwebmedia.com/seawater.htm and the associated FAQs files.>
and is ready for immediate use because Id like to do another water change of that size in a couple days. Its a much faster method of raising salinity as
opposed to replacing the evaporated water with NSW. My skimmer is made by SeaLife Systems and has worked great up until this point :). It seems the most logical thing is some sort of restriction inside the pump (Rio 800 I believe), because it makes a lot of noise now not running smoothly as it did before. 
<Turn it off... take it to the sink (along with the skimmer if need be) take it apart and check... easy to do>
The Queens demeanor hasn't really changed, she's still being awkward; sort of staying in the corner upside down. :shrug:
<Might just be low dissolved oxygen... the skimmer running will remedy this>
I think only time will tell with her, she's been normal up until this point though, nipping at all the rocks and what not. In the morning I will take apart the pump on the skimmer and clean out any mess inside, hopefully erasing that problem. Thanks again for your help my friend!! Ray
<A pleasure. Bob Fenner>

Re: Juvenile Queen Angel is sick, but from what?
I'm on it! Thanks BOB!
<Please make it known what you do, how all turns out. Rootin' for you, Bob Fenner>

Re: Juvenile Queen Angel is sick, but from what?
Hey Bob,
Bad news: the Queen was dead this morning when I awoke. She was floating on the surface, near the overflow box. :( I'm not really sure what happened to her. Her gills were RED and swollen.
<Rats! Sorry to read of the loss.>
To add insult to injury I can't get the pump on my skimmer to work properly. I took it apart and there appeared to be no gunk/ restrictions inside. I ran warm water through the pump for a few minutes and cleaned of anything that was there (not much). Its also not sucking air through the intake, and there isn't anything blocking airflow in the tube or on the inlet on the pump, so I don't know what to do.... Any input is greatly appreciated.
<Try hooking it up with a "direct" connection to your tank water (to discount the possibility of intake restriction)... it may be the pump is bunk (this happens)... next, a trip to your LFS, or visit from a sympathetic fellow reefer. Re the Lion eye opacity and Angel loss, I am still of the strong opinion that these troubles are/were directly related to diminished environmental quality... and advise you to get your skimmer re-going, and develop and adhere religiously to a plan of storage (in the dark) of new seawater (for at least a week... for me, two)... or switching to synthetic. Bob Fenner>
Frustrated Ray

Re: Juvenile Queen Angel is sick, but from what?
Hello Bob, I went to the LFS and had them inspect the pump and it turns out that the shaft somehow got bent.
<Ah ha!>
So that explains that issue! Tomorrow I'm going to the store that I prefer and see if he can get me a new shaft or a new pump. Thanks for all the help Bob!!! Ray
<You can call me Sherlock, well at least "Not Late For Dinner". Be chatting, Bob Fenner>

Ocean Water?
Hello there, I just found out about your site from the Nov. 2002 TFH magazine. 
<welcome, my friend!>
I spent over an hour searching around and reading your FAQs and plan on spending more time there (great site!). 
<excellent... and do share your wisdom in kind with others>
My question is the use of ocean water in polyp/coral production tanks I would like to set up. 
<it is very unlikely that I would ever recommend natural seawater for many reasons. The basics however are: very unreliable/seasonally fluctuating composition (pH, calcium, etc), the expense (time, space) of preparing it for safe use (ozone, bleach, filtration), the unlikelihood that you live in a remote coastal region and can draw pristine water from 5 to 10 miles out without effluent from dense coastal populations contaminating it, etc. Even if you get the water for free... it is unlikely to be worth it and almost certainly not as good for growing coral as a quality sea salt and its consistency. I would recommend Tropic Marin or Instant Ocean sea salts> 
I would like to propagate for trade with friends and local sales and trades. 
<excellent! Do let us know how we can help/advise>
My questions are, with sea water available to me (central Cal. coast) how would I treat it for safe use in the system (e.g.. aging, U.V., etc..)? 
<bleaching and dechlorinating are inexpensive and fairly easy. Decant the top water and store dark for 2 weeks. Aerating and buffering 2 days before use too. That may be enough... but I still wouldn't bother. And I will say that it will eventually be dangerous (1-2 year picture) if you are taking water from within 3 miles of most any coast>
Could I use a flow through type of system as this would be the easiest setup for me? 
<by flow through, if you mean raw, untreated... not recommended without massive micron filtration and ozone>
If a flow through system is an option, how would heating the water be performed (I have heard of flow through heaters but have not seen them available)? 
<very expensive... if the scope of your operation is large enough we may be able to reckon the expense. For most aquarists, synthetic sea salt provides peace of mind, reliability, consistency, etc. Bets regards, Anthony>
Thank you in advance for any help you can provide. Dan

Natural Seawater Use
Hello everyone, good day to all of you!
I live a couple miles from the ocean and I have often tested it's water to find wonderfully, perfect conditions. Never a nitrate, salinity perfect! Ahhhh, to be Mother Nature! These are my questions:
1.) Could use this for water changes?
<You could, but I don't recommend it. To many variables and not enough control/safety.>
2.) How would this water keep, if I put it in a bucket with a powerhead?
<Take a look here for additional information http://www.wetwebmedia.com/seawater.htm>
Thanks guys, I'd be lost without ya! Pamela
<Have a nice day! -Steven Pro>

Natural Seawater Use
Thank you, very informative link! I especially like this part, "Some folks assert that natural water must be best for "natural" livestock. Maybe they think their aquaria are "little pieces of the ocean"; most systems more closely approximate "little sewers".
<I love that part!>
Cheers! Pamela
PS ~ I'll stick to synthetic!
<Me too! -Steven Pro>

Using Natural Sea Water
Aloha WWM Crew,
<Howzit?>
Thank you for all your help.  I truly appreciate the resource you provide.  
<Our pleasure- always great to help fellow hobbyists!>
My question involves the use of natural seawater in my 55 gallon FOWLR.  I live on the island of Oahu and have access to seawater through a University of Hawaii marine research center on Sand Island. I was told that the water is brought in from a few miles out and is stored in large containers.   Of course, its free so the idea sounds great to me.  I'm just wondering what the drawbacks are.  I read through the FAQ's, but I was wondering if any of the issues are different due to my location.  Would it be okay if I just let the water sit for two weeks and check the PH before use? Mahalo Nui Loa, Jeff
<Well, Jeff, natural seawater is certainly good stuff, but it actually has a few drawbacks in closed system aquaria, regardless of its source. Among the drawbacks is that fact that it contains a variety of potentially problematic microorganisms, which can survive many pre-filtering processes. The other potential concern is the limited buffering capacity of seawater in closed systems. That being said, however, it is still nice to use. If you're going to use it, it's a good idea to let it sit in a dark place for a week or so, which lets all of the good and bad stuff die and settle out, then filter it and maybe run a filter with some PolyFilter or carbon for a few days, then it's good to go. Seems like a hassle, but it's worth the effort. Hope this helps a bit!  Malama Pono, and A hu'i hou! Scott F>

Natural Seawater Use (from John Foster, MASLAC)
Just my experiences...  I have used plenums in all my tanks (125, 180, 240) for between 3 and five years.  Some of my sandbeds I disturb a lot and often and others only a little.  I have never had any problems.  I will say that when I set up my next tank I am beginning to think that a deep sand bed may be just as good and I will only go with the sand bed.  Charles Delbeek compared them side by side (with and without  plenum) and found very little difference.  It did seem that the tank with the plenum lowered nutrient levels faster when they were elevated, and this has been my personal experience.  
John
  I tested Scripps water about 5 years ago and NO3, NO2, PO4 were not detectable.  ALK and PH were perfect, however, Silicates were high.  I used a HACH Professional model test kit.  The water is alive with bacteria not Nitrates and Phosphates.  What I have noticed is that if you seal the containers and/or the temperature rises quickly, there will be a rapid die-off of the bacteria/[plankton.  You can tell by smelling the water.  If this happens, do not use the water until you store it in the dark sealed for a couple weeks. I have used freshly collected water up to a week after collecting it but I store in in a cool place with the container open.  Don't leave the water in the direct sun for too long after you collect it if you intend to use it right away. 
  As far as plenums go, I don't recommend them.  They seem to work well until something disturbs them (inevitably something will) and then watch out!
  This happen to me with a Pistol Shrimp and caused my tank to cycle.  I lost some of my more sensitive corals.
  Happy reefing,
  Keith
  I have heard such conflicting information about using Scripps over RO/DI +salt that it is really bothersome.  One LFS says only use artificial water b/c the Pacific ocean water is too rich in Nitrates/Phosphates etc.  It is true that our water is very rich in nutrients, that's why we have such large kelp beds, the fastest growing "plant" brown algae, in the world.  Other LFS's say that there is nothing wrong with Scripps water.  The first LFS attributed my algae problem to using Scripps water, but with biological controls and more sand in my plenum the algae are gone.  So was it the water, or lack of good biological controls?  Or a combination?  After 2yrs of using Scripps water for my 80 gal reef I would say that it works just fine.  Has anyone sat down and tested some artificial water and some Scripps water to see how they compare in the NO2/NO3/PO4 department.  It would be nice to have a seawater nutrient profile   for different times of the year and see how it fluctuates.  I would expect nutrient levels to go up in the spring and early summer when   we have the most wind, and then to drop off when the upwelling cycle   is over. 
  by the way:  how do people feel about plenums? 
  > Scripps's water, it's water you can get for free at the la Jolla Scripps aquarium, many people go to get their salt water that they use for their own systems, the water over there it's perfectly balance (PH, N2, N3 etc).
  > But I also heard, that the water over there contains many plankton and bacteria that is harmless to their extremely large system, but can be a wipe out to small systems.

Going Natural? (Use of Natural Sea Water)
Hello Again WWM Crew,
<Hi there! Scott F. with you today!>
As always, I'd like to say marvelous job to all of you.  Great team effort.  
<So glad that you enjoy the site! The crew here really enjoy bringing it to you!>
I am 3 weeks into the curing of 25 pounds of live rock, 50 lbs of live sand.  I am confident that I am nearly complete with these test results:
Salinity: 1.023
Temp: 78
pH: 8.3
Nitrates: 5ppm
Ammonia: just slightly detectable
Nitrites: 0
Calcium: 450
I do weekly/bi-weekly water changes of 5 gallons.  
Am I done?  Cut back on the water changes?
<I'd keep 'em up for a while longer. ammonia should really be undetectable>
The water movement is good, but I have constant bubbles forming on the underside of the Tonga branch.  I've learned on your site that this may be an indication of bacteria: Beneficial or not?
<Well- really hard to say...It could even be hydrogen sulfide, etc...Most likely, however- nothing I'd be overly concerned about at this point>
And if not, could phosphates be a problem?   I haven't tested for them (I know, I know...)
<Gotta test for 'em to find 'em!>
I use a CPR Bak Pak skimmer, and have about 1/4 of the BioBale still in the return side.  This will be FOWLR, should I keep it?  Also, would a small branch of my Tonga in the skimmer instead of the BioBale be beneficial?
<Well, it essentially performs the same function- serving as a biological filtration media within the skimmer/filter unit>
Secondly, on a recent trip to an aquarium in San Francisco, I discovered that they sell natural sea water conditioned for tanks at a reasonable price.  I already have artificial sea water in the tank.  If I decided to take advantage of this, would it be a bad idea to mix in the natural sea water in when doing water changes?
Also, should I dilute this a bit with RO water, since the salinity is 1.025?
<Believe it or not, I do not favor the use of natural sea water under most circumstances (and I leave near the ocean, myself!)...The necessary "prep work" to assure that it is made suitable for use in captive systems is too great, IMO.>  
And lastly, my sand bed is between 3-5 inches across the tank.  I've read that you need 4+ for denitrification.  Is it worthwhile in the long run if I were to add enough that it could be 4+ across the whole bed?
<Yep- I'd be shooting for 4 inches plus!>
I'd be up a creek without your advice!!! Thanks always,
Ryan Bowen San Francisco, CA
<And we'd be "out to sea", without everyone's support! Thanks for stopping by! Regards, Scott F>

Buying premixed water, Buying Seawater
Sorry to bother you again, I just remembered that I also needed to ask you another question. The local aquarium where I live sells salt water from the sea for 5cents per gallon. The salinity is a bit low at about 28 ppt. Can I raise the salinity with a salt mix? The water they sell contains phosphates, is it advisable to remove it? If so, how can I remove it? Bottom line, do you think I should go ahead with this water from the public aquarium or stick with mixing with r/o water and a packaged salt mix?
<too much risk of contamination or seasonal inconsistencies with natural seawater. Look back through past FAQs for proper treatment of demineralized water. But do mix up your own synthetic seawater for consistency and peace of mind. Unless you personally feel like boating several miles off shore to retrieve seawater and bring it back home to filter and sterilize it...hehe. Kindly, Anthony>

Re: buying premixed water
In reply to your comment about water treatment from the public aquarium, the water from there is U.V sterilized and filtered and they use the same water in all of their coral reef exhibits, so perhaps you thought I would be the one collecting the water myself? Maybe I was not clear in questioning, but could you re-advise? Thanks again.
<I would still advise you to continue using RO water and a good quality synthetic salt mix. -Steven Pro>

Red Tide Questions
Can someone answer a few questions about the red tide?  1) I understand it is a surface condition, is water drawn from Scripps pumps really affected?
<Mmm, yes... the principal species of algae (Dinoflagellates... Gonyaulax, Gymnodinium spp. if memory serves) are principally surface/epipelagic... but enough of these single cells and their chemical metabolite does make it to the depths of the two intakes at the end of the pier where water is drawn/pumped up>
2) What, specifically, is the problem if introduced into a mature reef/fish tank?
<General toxicity. Interference with fish respiration/electron transport... "cascade" effect with other biota>
3) I usually heat and filter Scripps water for a couple days before using it, often with LR or bio-balls from sump in there as well. Could easily add UV. The question is, can you filter out or kill off the algae?
<In a matter of time, yes... but more at play here than live algae... Better to store in dark for a couple of weeks, then bleach, dechlorinate, decant or diatom filter (and UV, aerate, ozonize if you want) in-between storage and actual use.>
TIA for any answers to these questions, David.
<Bob Fenner, who along with Mark Ferguson wrote about using "Scripps" (William TV.) water for booklets back in the (yikes!) sixties.>

Saltwater
Bob,
I patronize a local marine LFS store that sells salt water obtained from the ocean. It is run through a UV sterilizer. I checked your posts and couldn't' find a discussion on this matter. My questions:
a. Is water made from packaged mixes superior to sea water?
<For most settings, circumstances, synthetic is superior...>
b. If so, why? My thinking is that it would be hard to beat God's mixture but I have a feeling you are going to vote for a mixture.
<Yes my friend. The "natural" water is fine in nature... Aquariums are more akin to little sewers than a slice of the ocean... Please read here re this issue: http://www.wetwebmedia.com/seawater.htm and the linked FAQs>
c. Even if a mixture has higher ratios of necessary components, is there a likelihood that sea water has phytoplankton's or other micronutrients that mixes lack?
<And pollutants, pests, parasites...>
As always...thanks tons...you guys are the best! William Snyder, Stuart, FL
<Glad to offer our input and opinions. Bob Fenner>

Low pH and alk but high Ca
Hi WWM Crew,
I seem to be having a problem with low pH and alk in my 50 reef. My readings are as follows:
pH-7.9
alk-2.5
Ca-490
I am adding daily Two Part ESV B-Ionic 25ml of each. I also add 60 ml daily of Kalk. Additives are all added manually. The tank is 3 years old and I do two 10% water changes monthly. For the last three months I have been using ocean water for these changes.
<I would recommend going back to synthetic water.>
I have noticed my green star polyps have not been opening full for about 3 weeks. Could the low pH and alkalinity cause this?
<Yes>
All other organisms doing fine. Any advise greatly appreciated. Mario
<I would do several large (50%) water changes to bring your parameters back into line. Once they are good, you should be able to easily maintain them with the Two-Part additives. -Steven Pro>

Re: Low pH and alk but high Ca
Thanks for the quick reply Steve, why would you not recommend natural ocean water?
<Generally, chronically low in pH and possibly contaminated with pollution, parasites, or bacteria blooms.>
I figured the plankton in it may help feed some of the SPS corals, clams, etc.
<Parasites are also in that plankton. -Steven Pro>

Marine set-up query
Hi Anthony
Sorry for the 20 questions. I know some answers are in the FAQ's and I wouldn't mind your opinion.
Finally, This is my proposed initial set up- 404 with carbon and some bio-balls, run my SP2500's as powerheads, skimmer and live rock. How much live rock do you think for a 70Gal tank?
<more the better, depends on the type/density of rock used... 100-140lbs of Fiji rock on the high end>
What test kits are necessary?
<begin with ammonia, nitrite, nitrate, alkalinity and calcium. Phosphate if nuisance alga persists>
How long do I wait before adding fish?
<at least a month would be nice>
Should I use Syn sea water even if I live by the ocean?
<ABSOLUTELY!!!! Natural seawater has numerous dangers and problems for long term success. We could talk for hours about this. Rest assured, use synthetic seawater for consistency and safety... especially if your tap water is even reasonably good>
Should the carbon be used constantly or put in once a month for a few days. There seems to be different ideas.
<constantly with small amounts changes frequently. Monthly can shock corals and some live rock fauna terribly>
A guy at work said not to worry about it.
<better safe than sorry... no harm to daily carbon, but many possible dangers with intermittent or without>
Anything else I should be aware of?
<strangers with beady eyes>
Yet another suggestion I've had is run a fluidized sand bed filter in my 404 line.
<fluidized bed filters are more risk than they are generally worth... only employ if you will have a massive fish load>
Thanks for everything. Regards Scott
<best regards, Anthony>

Natural seawater
Hi Bob,
I read your Q & A daily. Great Information! I have never seen my question addressed though. I have the good fortune of living on the Gulf of Mexico. I have often wondered if I could use natural seawater for my reef tank that is first circulated a UV source to kill bacteria. Any Suggestions?
 Thank you, Gail
<<Do have some standard ideas about "real" seawater (versus synthetic)... The real thing can be made to work... minus the possibilities of pests, pollution, parasites, by storing the new water in the dark for a week or more... then mechanically and UV filtering it... before use.
Bob Fenner, whose synthetic/natural water input in greater detail can be found at www.wetwebmedia.com >>

More questions (seawater making)
Hi Bob,
(I'm getting to be a real regular around here)
<Careful, you may end up answering queries...>
A few questions:
1: As I mentioned before, I'm moving. If the house we purchase has copper piping for it's water supply, will the leeching that occurs
contain enough copper to poison the tank for reef animals?
<Generally inconsequential... not much concentration comes through to matter... but this is one of the myriad reasons I strongly suggest pre-mixing and storing synthetic seawater... per the rationale, protocol of the same name on the www.WetWebMedia.com site>
2: I'm going to get a Rubbermaid Brute (tm) for holding my water (thanks
for pointing those out), would a couple of inches of aragonite (sp?) sand in the bottom be a good idea? 
<Mmm, not really... more trouble to pump/move water...>
I was thinking it could help buffer the water and lead to less of a ph shift when adding it.
<Minimally... adding a bit of baking soda, like a teaspoon per ten gallons, would be much better>
3: I'll be living near (roughly 40 miles) from the Oregon coast, would obtaining a few gallons of sea water and using it to inoculate the tank
be a good idea, or should I not bother since the local biome is so different than a tropical reef?
<Not so much the difference in living component of this water, but the issues of potential pests, parasites and pollution would dissuade me from such usage.>
thanks again! Mike
<Be chatting. Bob Fenner>

Using FRESH seawater for water changes
Hi Bob,
I live in the Florida Keys and we obviously have an abundance of fresh, clean seawater around us here, and I was wondering if its okay to use this directly from the ocean for water changes?
<I wouldn't... better to develop, adhere to a regular protocol of collection, storage, treatment ahead of use. Somewhat detailed on the www.WetWebMedia.com site on "Seawater Use" or such>
I heard somewhere that you have to "cure" the seawater in a light-proof container for 2 weeks. If this is the case, why?
<Cuts down, discounts the likelihood of introducing a "bug", organisms that you may not want... Bob Fenner>
Thanks in advance, Brad

Water change (natural seawater use)
Hi, I have 135 Gal tank with fish and live rock. Been running for 6 months now. I made one small 10% water change about 2 months ago. Nitrates are rising. My local fish store just set me up for a water change with ocean water (guy comes with a truck of ocean water; that's how tank got filled) and they are suggesting 50% water change! 
<Bigger sale>
I am worried that is too much. I read you recommend 10 to 20% frequent changes.
<Yes, in general>
Should I make up the lack of past frequency with a such a large change for this time and get on with a regular schedule and smaller changes? 
<More frequent, partial water changes are best>
What is the maximum % you would suggest for this time?
<twenty five percent... Read about natural versus synthetic water use on our site: http://wetwebmedia.com/seawater.htm
and develop a protocol for storing, treating the natural if you're going to use it... It's rarely the better route to go... Be chatting, Bob Fenner>
Thanks in advance
Thierry Genoyer