|
|
FAQs on Storing Synthetic Seawater
Related Articles: Synthetic or Natural
Seawater,
Saltwater Impressions (Synthetics Review) By Steven Pro,
Specific Gravity, Water Changes/Changing, pH,
Alkalinity,
Marine Alkalinity Related FAQs:
Seawater 1, Seawater 2,
Seawater 3, Seawater 4,
Seawater 5,
Seawater 6, & FAQs on Mixing,
Supplementing, Moving,
Physical/Chemical Troubleshooting/Fixing... By
Make/Manufacturer: Natural Seawater.
Synthetics: Aquarium Systems (Instant
Ocean, Reef Crystals), Aquacraft
(Marine Environments, BioSea...),
Central Garden (Oceanic), Kent Marine
(SeaSalt), Red Sea (Red Sea Salt, Coral
Pro Salt), SeaChem Marine (Marine
Salt, Reef Salt), Energy Savers
(Coralife), Tropic Marin,
Other Brands... About Buying Pre-mixed
Seawater, About Synthetics
Manufacturers Advertising Claims...
Spg 1,
Treating Tapwater For Marine Aquarium Use,
Reverse Osmosis Filtration | .jpg)
Do synthetic saltmixes meet all sorts of marine lives' needs? Do
they become toxic with age, storage?
|
premixed saltwater storage 10/5/09
Good afternoon,
<Good evening, Keith! JustinN here!>
I have a question regarding the storage of premixed saltwater. I
currently use Red Sea Coral Pro salt and RO water. I use a Maxijet and a
heater in a 6 gallon bucket. I mix the salt and let it mix with a
powerhead and a heater and test ph, ca and Alk after 24 hours and the
results are pH of 8.3, Ca of 440 and dKH of 8. I then cover the bucket
with a lid and leave the heater and Maxijet on.
<Sounds good.>
When I remove the lid several days later I have noticed that my dKH goes
up and my
Ca drops to about 360-380. I imagine this is kind of the same result as
the night-day ph swing and that the Alk and Ca are working to stabilize
pH?
<Mmm, more likely the stabilization of all things chemical in your water
over time..>
Anyway, when it comes to water changes with this premixed water, what is
the procedure? How long should I leave the water with the lid off before
attempting a change?
<If you're circulating the air for 24+ hours with an air pump, you
should be ready to go. Just perform a water change as normal.>
Should I add an airstone a couple of hours before the water change or
does this sound like an unstable salt mix?
<More air never hurts, but I doubt its necessity. No personal experience
with Red Sea's salt, but I doubt that the mix is a problem.>
I had just recently noticed coralline die off and lower Ca or more than
usual ca consumption in my display tank that had been dead on for well
over a year as well as lower pH overall (8.1) during the day.
<Coralline die-off and higher Ca usage would seem to be somewhat in
conflict -- are there corals/clams that could be sapping the Ca from the
water at a greater rate over time?>
This salt brand had been pretty much consistent for me since I started
my tank, with no new livestock additions or equipment but to be quite
honest I had never tested the bucket after the initial tests were
satisfied after the mixing and aerating 24 hours later.
<Worthwhile to chart out results for a few sets of make-up water here,
make sure there's not a trend of instability.>
Any insight or help would be greatly appreciated.
<On paper, I would say you appear to have everything right as needed.
Have a look at my article on exactly this topic:
http://wetwebmedia.com/ca/volume_4/V4I2/Water_Makeup/makeup_water.htm --
you will find that your overall strategy fits the concepts laid out
there pretty well to a T. Let us know if you have any more questions!
-JustinN>
Re: premixed saltwater storage... & disc. of mixes, IO and
Red Sea
Thanks Justin.
I read the water change article, and it looked familiar, so it might
have been where I initially got some of the practices I use now. I
always do let the water age for at least a day, so stuff can become
known before it's in the tank and too late.
<Absolutely.>
I usually test too but so many buckets of the Red Sea had been dead on I
kind of slacked on this last one until a WC had been done.
<Understandable -- when you get that rhythm, sometimes the lackadaisical
attitude sets in... I know I'm guilty more than once!>
While I was waiting for your reply, I mixed up 2 other buckets of water,
another of Red Sea Coral Pro and one of good ol' Instant Ocean just to
make sure my test kits weren't out of whack. The Instant Ocean at SG of
1.026 was right on, Alk of 10, calcium of 380 and ph of 8.2-8.3. The
second batch of Red Sea had an Alk of well over 14, but I stopped there
because those drop tests run out pretty quick and I was yet unsure where
the salt was going to be reading the next day. The Ca was at 440 and ph
of 8.3 <I never trust my initial readings when mixing salt, and tend to
only go on Salinity personally -- until the water has had some time to
mix and stabilize.>
Like I said in my last email, I had used this brand of salt for over a
year without issue, switching from Instant Ocean on the "advice" of
other reefers when I started adding corals because of the low Ca in IO.
<Understood -- plenty of reefers have great success with this salt -- I
doubt the salt itself is really an issue.>
A little background on my tank. I have a 20 gal long tank. It has 24 lbs
of aragonite sand, about 20 lbs of liverock and has 2 150 gal powerheads
on opposite sides. I also use an Aquaclear 70 that is 300 gph for flow
and occasionally Chemipure since my skimmer started to leak and it had
to be removed about 6 months ago.
<Sounds good -- do make sure to clean out any filter media in the
Aquaclear regularly here.>
I do 2 5% WCs weekly or at least 1 10%. The tank is lit by 130 watts of
PC, 1 1000k and 1 actinic. I have 2 false Perculas, a watchman and his
pistol shrimp buddy, a cleaner shrimp, 4 blue leg hermits and 4 Astrea
snails. For corals I have Xenia, mushrooms, zoos and 2 LPS corals: a
torch coral and a candy cane.
<Sounds very nice.>
I have had these corals doing well and growing now since Feb of this
year (that is when the final ones were
added) I have great coralline too, but everywhere I read that to sustain
coralline you needed a higher Ca, like in the 400-450 range in a captive
system...which with the addition of the LPs is why I opted to try out a
"reef" salt in the first place....but as you can see, other than the
coralline I don't really have a lot of Ca/Alk
hungry animals...at least I don't think I do, I might be wrong.
<Disagreed -- Torch corals and Candy Cane's are both hard stonies, and
use a good amount of Ca/Alk... would very likely account for any lacks
here.>
Since I added the "bad batch" of salt on my last WC I have seen my Alk
drop, my Ca drop and my Ph fluctuate more than normal as well as the
coralline looking flaky in places and some on the walls with white
rings starting to form around them.
<This does seem odd -- I'd continue forward with testing a few buckets
of mix, see if there's a trend towards imbalance with the Red Sea
salt..>
I was always happy with the consistency of the IO salt, but didn't want
to add say liquid calcium often over fear of the eventual chloride
problem.
<Must say, I'm not aware of a chloride problem here -- as long as your
dosing accurately and measuring, there shouldn't be an issue. Also, do
look into solutions such as B-Ionic, they take a lot of the complication
out of Ca/Alk dosing.>
Is there a way to use IO without a drip system, reactor whatever with a
safer calcium additive, for a tank my size or is the 380 I get at 1.026
actually pretty good for my tank?
<Is about average, for non-supplemented water.>
I do use Seachem reef builder from time to time as well for Alk with the
Red Sea Pro when it would mix the way it usually did: ph 8.3 Alk 7 and
Ca 440. This bucket of Red Sea also leaves a noticeable amount of
deposit and "shiny" particles at the bottom of my bucket...so I fear I
might have a quality issue with this batch.
<Hmm.. I'm beginning to fear this too, the more I read.. it does happen
from time to time.>
Before I realized this was occurring I had done a 10% WC Friday which is
when I noticed the parameters of my tank were starting to swing. From
now on I will test EACH batch of mix, and at the very least every new
bucket and a couple of batches.
<I would agree with this approach.>
I see a lot of different trends and guerilla techniques so to speak in
these nanos but what I really want is a consistent stable and enjoyable
tank, which I have been able to do pretty well before this last batch of
salt got me worried.
<Smaller volumes of water are always problematic to keep at a stable
chemistry -- which is why those in the know typically don't recommend
them as a starter.>
Effort and maintenance is no problem, I just don't want to start out
with numbers that aren't going to do my tank any good, especially in a
small system such as mine. I appreciate your help, and I am so sorry if
this is long winded, but my only other support is a fellow nano friend
of mine who has sunk so much money and equipment into is tank he could
have a 180 gallon reef with a sump! He's an engineer of course :-)
<Ah, always good people to know! Do look into/reach out to various BB's
and forums around the net -- such as the one provided here at WWM! These
forums are full of people willing to help and discuss their similar
issues, successes, and failures.>
BTW, what would you do to iron this out? scrap the red sea batch and try
to return the unused? mix the IO with the red sea (fear of a less than
desirable effect with possible precipitation), or go back to IO and add
something for the possible Ca issue if it is needed and if so what would
you recommend?. If the consumption isn't too bad, will the coralline
adjust to a balanced system with lower Ca?
<Personally, I would likely test 2-3 batches worth of the red sea at
once (allowing them to circulate for 24-48 hours first). If I continued
to get off/varied readings here, I would probably move forward with
trying to get a credit on the unused portion. If you still have the
Instant Ocean available, and its still testing accurately, I would use
this for the time being in your tank.>
Again, sorry this probably simple and common problem is so long
Keith
<The proof is in the details, as they say -- this thorough description
has allowed me to get a bit more of a view into the overall process
that's going on, and I'm now more inclined to think it could be a
problematic batch of salt. Let us know if you have any further
questions! -JustinN>
Re: Premixed Saltwater Storage, Problematic Salt Mix -
10/06/2009
Hi Justin,
<Hey Keith!>
Well I do think I have a bad batch of Red Sea this time, like it is void
of Mag or something. Today after adding my venturi to the powerhead in
bucket 1 for over an hour testing resulted in a dKH of 18 ca of 280.
Bucket 2 which was mixed later is a dKH of 16 Ca of 320 and finally the
3rd bucket with instant ocean dKH of 10 calcium of 380 still all at SG
of 1.026.
<Mmm, does sound that way.>
Both batches of Red Sea are particulate
and hazy (even the mix from 48 hours ago!)
<Definitely not right>
My LFS has a good return policy and Reef Crystals from Instant Ocean is
on sale by chance this week and will only run about $2 more than regular
IO for the bag of mix that does 55 gals, so I'm thinking that might be
my better bet as it seems I bought the last bucket in stock of Red Sea
from them.
<Sounds like a plan to me. Reef Crystals is a quality product with a
proven record.>
I know all salt mixes can have a bad batch, which is why it is important
to test but the Instant Ocean has been pretty consistent....
<Agreed. Some have a better track record than others, but everyone has
incidents -- it happens.>
its what I have used in my brackish tanks for years so I am hoping Reef
Crystals will be just as consistent with a little better mag and Ca.
Should I do small 5% water changes or should there be no harm in ionic
balance to do a 10% weekly until my levels are more consistent?
<No harm that I would see -- the balance shouldn't be enough off either
way to cause a precipitous event.>
Should I use a 2 part Alk/ca additive in the mean time like C-Balance or
Kent A&B?
<Certainly, these are easy to apply and work well -- I like B-Ionic
myself, but the above are fine too.>
Thank you for the help and the quick response.
Keith
<Glad to be of service! -JustinN>
R9: Green Hair Algae Problem (Ready to quit!)…Ozone & Water
Prep – 09/09/09
Hey Eric:
<<Hi Cindy>>
I read "Bob's" section on ozone last night (only my husband had read it
before) and went ahead and ordered an ozone injection system from the
show as well after reading it myself (put my apprehensions to rest).
<<Ah good…is a beneficial addition>>
Hopefully the rest of my initial order (skimmer, membrane and pads) will
be here in a day or so.
I am already feeling so much better about my reef (my husband is having
heart failure over the cost however even though I had warned him that
they were a "money pit" right from the start) and that I may finally
have this situation foxed thanks to you and "Bob".
<<So glad to have helped>>
Mr. Fenner is right, discus and planted aquariums are very expensive
indeed but at least "around here", REEF RULES IN THE COST DEPT.,
probably because there are so few of us that do saltwater.
<<Maybe so… (Can’t help but to keep pushing the NET on you re)>>
I'll start cooking my water for at least a week as he suggested and
seeding is a great idea and will make water changes much easier on the
corals.
<<Indeed… Many hobbyists don’t realize how active/reactive newly mixed
saltwater is, or how irritating/stressful it can be on your tank’s
inhabitants…and maybe even contributory to nuisance algae issues such as
yours>>
That book (a real smart low cost investment in your reef systems) and
you have been so incredibly helpful!
<<Redeeming to know>>
Do you have pics of your reef online? Must be something!
<<I did have some posted on my local reef club’s website at one time,
until we had a “glitch” that wiped out the photo library…just haven’t
gotten around to taking/posting more>>
Thanks,
Cindy
<<Happy to share… EricR>>
Re: Cyanobacteria/BGA 4/4/09
Hey Scott,
<Matt.>
I got this new vertical 70 gallon water storage tank from this Rotonics
company. It's for my service van. Anyhow...i took a whiff of the inside
and it kinda stinks like some chemical preservative or something like a
Crayola crayon box or something.
<Hmmm, normal manufacturing smells.>
How do you recommend curing it?
<Just run some water through it....it will be ok.>
I submerged the lid in my pond and filled the tank with hose water. I
figure once algae starts growing in it then it will be cured perhaps?
Any ideas?
<No algae! Just rinse it a couple of times, then use away!>
Thanks,
Matthew
<Welcome.><<RMF might scrub out and let soak with rock salt for a few
days.>>
Marine replacement water for water changes 1/26/09
Hello,
i hope this isn't too dumb of a question, but I was wondering how long
water can be kept after it has been made up.
<A good long while...
particularly if it is covered... Months at least>
Not having great
tap water or a reverse osmosis setup, I get mine from my LFS that has a
wonderful self fill station of salt water that is reverse osmosis and
has a SG of 1.020. I keep my tank at 1.022 so I do have to add a bit of
salt mix, but I keep the bucket(s) covered. Does the water need to have
a pump in it for storage or does it need to be stirred only before
adjusting the temp and replacing.
<Can be used "right out of the
bucket"... i.e., it shouldn't "settle out">
How long can the water be
stored before it is considered old or stagnant?
<Ages>
On a side
note, do you happen to know roughly how many tablespoons it would take
per gallon to change the SG from 1.020 to 1.022? A half cup of salt
seems to make a gallon of water have a SG of 1.021 from my tap, but I am
guessing the reverse osmosis water might be a bit different.
<Mmm,
only if you have appreciable dissolved solids...>
Any help
would
be greatly appreciated.
Keith
<Mmm, well... can you tell me how
many tsps there are in a cup? Given your stated relationship twixt the
salt mix and spg... this should be a relationship of the equivalent of
how much a tbsp. out of a half cup will "move" a gallon of water one
thousandth (0.001) in density... Yes? Bob Fenner>
Prepared Saltwater Storage – 10/24/08
Dear Crew,
<<Hello
Linda>>
My joy at finding your site in my 60's has/is a wonderful
learning experience.
<<Ah!>>
My fish in the past would have
appreciated the knowledge I am now acquiring through months of reading
your marvelous site.
<<Excellent>>
My question is when I have
prepared my salt water for the next water change, is it alright to cover
the bucket with a lid?
<<Sure…In fact some would say that “dark”
storage is best to retard biochemical/biological processes, though if
only storing for a week or two I don’t think this to be critical. But
covering the container will certainly help with keeping out airborne
dust/pollutants…just be sure to aerate the water for a couple hours
before use to boost oxygen levels. Or if the lid is not an airtight fit,
run a powerhead or airline with the lid on>>
When I set the tap water
out in the buckets and then aerate them, I cover loosely with a plastic
sheet for gas exchange. I have read this is important.
<<Indeed>>
Thanking you in advance and thank you for bringing me many hours of
learning and laughter.
Linda Rich
<<A collective effort…quite
welcome. Regards, Eric Russell>>
TDS Readings…Leaching Storage Container – 07/16/08
Greetings
All,
<<Hello>>
THANKS in advance for a wonderful web site,
<<Quite welcome>>
unfortunately I couldn't find an answer to my
question/situation so I must pick a few brain cells.
<<Not too
many I hope, I only have a few left…and many of those have been
allocated to destruction via alcohol consumption [grin] >>
I have
a 7 stage RO/DI set up in the basement; the water drains in to 2
55-gallon blue barrels that are food grade--they had tomatoes in
them previously
<<Okay>>
--the 2 barrels are connected via
1-inch PVC at the bottom so that as one fills, it fills the other.
<<Understood>>
As needed, I pump water into a 3rd 55-gallon
barrel for saltwater changes one week prior to its use.
<<Sounds
good>>
My TDS readings are at 001 out of the unit, and within the
last 3-4 weeks the water in the barrels has started reading anywhere
from 35 to 80ppm.
ANY IDEAS?????
<<I’ll assume you are not
adding buffers to these containers (would expect much higher TDS
readings if so), so this is likely the result of something
“leaching” from the containers themselves. This may be something
that was previously absorbed from the tomatoes, or something from
the barrels makeup. You say these containers are “food grade” but
that doesn’t mean they don’t/won’t leach chemicals…it just means
that whatever they leach should be safe for human consumption. Water
is a universal solvent…some leaching is not unexpected, even were
these “new” containers, and I think it likely they are indeed safe
for your intended purpose here. You could take a sample for testing
(perhaps at a College/University laboratory) if overly concerned,
but if your tank inhabitants are not displaying any unexplained
issues of late or nuisance alga hasn’t sprung up unexpectedly, I
would be inclined to ignore these readings and continue as you have
been doing. Regards, EricR>>
Re: TDS Readings…Leaching Storage Container – 07/17/08
Eric,
<<Bill>>
THANKS for the speedy reply.
<<Quite welcome>>
My
fish and corals all appear to be doing fine. Polyp extension is very
good, and colors are unchanged.
<<Very good>>
I have noticed
however, a red slimy substance that has started to cover a portion
of the algae and rock in my 'fuge, but not in my tank.
<<Cyanobacteria…and not uncommon in these typically low-flow
environments>>
I do remove this red slime by simply using a 'fish
net'.
<<Good>>
The only thing in my two 'storage' barrels is
the RO/DI water, no buffers or any other additives.
<<Okay>>
There is an airline with a 'T' on the end in each barrel for
circulation, and a heater is used in the winter.
Due to the
increased TDS readings in the stored make up water, I drained both
barrels last Sunday, scrubbed the two containers with a VERY mild
water/vinegar solution and thoroughly rinsed then dried with paper
towels as I did prior to their initial use, and started the refill.
<<All good, though this may only have a short-term effect…time will
tell>>
ALL filters/media in the system with the exception of the
100 GPD membrane, (it was replaced in March), were changed on
Saturday, and allowed to run for 3 hours before collection.
I am
seeing a definite increase in green algae on my substrate and glass,
but I attribute this to new 20 k HQI bulbs put in last weekend (They
replaced 10 k bulbs). I have cut their 'on time' down to just a
little over 8 hours from 10.
<<Lighting is but a part of the
nuisance alga equation…and I am not a fan of reducing the
photoperiod to battle such as I feel this does more harm to your
desirous photosynthetic organisms than to the alga. I can’t say
whether the appearance of the green algae (and/or the Cyanobacteria)
is attributable to your water storage barrels…but I once had a
“previously used” Polyethylene barrel for storage of my RO/DI makeup
water that I attributed to nuisance alga growth. I replaced the
barrel with a “new” one, and the nuisance alga disappeared within
weeks. Coincidence? Maybe…but still something to consider>>
So as
long as my readings straight out of the RO/DI unit continue to read
001 I'm good to go--OK.
<<Too nebulous… Let your tank/common
sense be your guide here>>
At what point/level should I be
concerned with the stored water readings, if at all??
Bill
<<That’s a tough one Bill…not knowing what element/substance is
registering on the meter to begin with. If the algae you mention
doesn’t become problematic and the fish and coral stay healthy then
no problem. If things start to go downhill then you need to try to
determine the reason and the source…with contamination from the
storage barrels being but one of the options. Regards, EricR>>
R2: TDS Readings-Leaching Storage Container - 07/19/08
Eric—
<<Hiya Bill>>
Again, THANKS for your response.
<<A pleasure>>
I went by the facility that I have been purchasing my filters etc.
from on my way home form work this morning--his price is way cheaper
than any LFS in my area—
<<Give these guys a browse:
http://www.thefilterguys.biz/ >>
it is a home Water purification
store, and as we were discussing the recent events of my water
situation, we came to the conclusion that the GPD membrane/filter is
bad.
<<Mmm, maybe so…but your DI resin cartridge would be (is!)
cleaning up any “leakage” of ions through the membrane. A bad
membrane should really only result in the faster exhaustion of the
resin>>
At his suggestion ran a 'test' of it the night before,
and after 15 minutes I had collected less that 1 gallon of RO water,
so I ordered a new membrane.
<<I don’t know that this really
proves anything here, Bill. I get the logic that a 100gpd membrane
should process at least 4-gallons per hour (e.g. – 1-gallon every
15-minutes), but these “ratings”, while likely in the ball-park, are
subjective to a bit of marketing hype/over evaluation just like
anything else (e.g. – the skimmer that’s good for “any” tank from 25
to 300 gallons). Water pressure, level of impurities, and very
importantly water temperature (the colder the source/ground water
the more waste-water produced per gallon of filtered water…and thus
a slower filter “rate”) also affects the performance of these
membranes. My own 100gpd unit runs fastest at this time of year here
in the South, and my source water starts off with an already low TDS
of about 80ppm on average…but I don’t think that it is producing a
gallon of purified water every 15-minutes…though I have not bothered
to measure this. And a suggestion…if you don’t have one already, the
small amount of money to add a “membrane flush-kit” to your filter
setup would be well spent>>
It will be in on Monday. He also
stated that these membranes need to be stored in a refrigerator
prior to their use, as they will deteriorate just sitting on a
shelf, and it is quite possible that I received a bad one to start
with, and suggested I have it replaced under warranty.
<<Hmm…can’t say I agree with all this>>
Although this sounds good
in theory, I'm a little leery of receiving another bad one, and
going through this scenario again. I also discovered that he has 55
gallon barrels in stock, the price is higher than I paid for my
current ones, but they are brand new food grade barrels, and have
never been used.
<<I ordered mine form USPlastics.com>>
He
also showed me some water storage barrels that he has leftover from
the Y2K scare that are also brand new/food grade and are plumbed for
water delivery.
<<Ah yes, mine came with “spouts” as well…very
handy>>
They come in 250 and 125 gallon size. The 125 is not much
more in price than 2 55 gallon barrels and has a smaller footprint
that 2 55's---SO in light of recent events, and not wanting to
jeopardize my corals, I'm going to pick up one of these
tomorrow--Friday-- and start anew.
<<And will hopefully eliminate
this variable/concern re your water quality and the “used” barrels>>
I've also got a new TDS meter on the way as well. We'll see.
<<Indeed>>
Hopeful Bill
<<Do keep me posted mate. Good luck!
Eric Russell>>
R3: TDS Readings-Leaching Storage Container - 07/23/08
Greetings Eric—
<<Howdy Bill>>
OK, first insert "Stretch's”
line from 'Animal house' here-- "... What are you some kinda
moeron?..."(and yes I know moron is spelled wrong)
<<Hee-hee!
What did you do know?>>
I realized that I was using my TDS meter
wrong on my readings of water entering my first container. I was
just holding it under the water as it entered/filled the barrel.
<<Ah…>>
Hey, I got the reading I wanted—
<<Indeed [grin]>>
I washed/rinsed out both collection barrels, dried them with paper
towels, and let them air out. Back-flushed the system, installed the
new membrane, found out that there was no restrictor anywhere in my
system,
<<The missing restrictor is the reason your filtered
affluent rate was so slow (low pressure against the membrane), and
probably not the fault of a bad membrane>>
good thing Dan (owner
of water supply store) got one for me with the new membrane, flushed
the membrane for an hour into a 5 gallon bucket (collected 1 gallon
in 15 minutes) and started refilling the barrels. Using a glass jar
to collect water going into the barrel my TDS is 002, and the water
in the barrel reads 002, after 24 hours of collection.
<<Yay!>>
Therefore, I have concluded that 'IF' I had been using the meter
correctly I would have seen that my collection water was the same
TDS as water entering the barrels.
<<Very possibly so…although
not at optimum efficiency re the missing flow restrictor>>
I'm
still unsure as to why my membrane went 'bad' so soon, I replaced it
in March--4 months ago--at the same time I replaced all the other
filters.
<<Mmm, give the old membrane a try with the new
restrictor in place…may not be bad after all>>
Anyway, it's the
weekend to do one of the twice monthly water changes, but I'm
thinking maybe I'll do one every weekend for a couple more weeks.
<<Up to you mate>>
THANKS again for being here for all of us, I
know I appreciate it.
<<Is my pleasure to share>>
Bill
Fletcher in Kansas City, MO
<<Eric Russell…in hot and muggy
Columbia, SC>> |
Mixing saltwater 04/09/2008
Hi WWM crew
<<Hello, Andrew
today>>
I was wondering when mixing saltwater where you have to leave
it overnight, is it suitable to use a large storage container a few
times to mix the sufficient volume of water or do you mix the saltwater
in separate buckets and gradually add the water to the tank.
<<When
the water has been mixed in large water tub, i drain out my water amount
and then pump new back to the to the tank when i am ready for a water
change>>
Thanks for all the help
Kind Regards
Dean
<<Thanks,
hope this helps. A Nixon>>
Phosphate Leaching In Plastic Storage Vessel? – 10/22/07
Hi Guys,
<<Peter>>
I recently bought a 30 gal plastic container from Lowe's. I
started using this to store saltwater mixes for water changes. I have
noticed that when I do phosphate tests on the water in the storage bin
that phosphate levels up to 5 ppm are detected. The water used is from
an RO/DI that gives a TDS reading of 0.00 and when phosphates are
checked directly out of the RO/DI the readings are 0.00ppm. Are the new
storage containers leaching phosphates into the water?
<<If these are
tests on “water only” in the container (no salt mix introduced- ever),
yes, your tests seem to indicate so>>
If so, how do I prevent that or
are there different containers that I should be using?
<<You don’t
state what you bought...but I know many hobbyists who use the
Rubbermaid® containers with no ill effect. Another option is to purchase
vessels made purposely for holding “potable” water...I use a couple
Polyethylene drums purchased from USPlastics.com >>
Thanks,
Peter
<<Regards, EricR>>
Re: Phosphate Leaching In Plastic Storage Vessel? – 10/22/07
Thanks so much for the quick reply.
<<Quite welcome>>
I found a
clear polyethylene drum that I will test under the same conditions.
<<Excellent>>
I believe the container I was using was indeed a
Rubbermaid.
Thanks,
Peter
<<Cheers, EricR>>
Green Makeup Saltwater – 09/22/07
Crew-
<Craig.>
I mixed 35
gallons of makeup water for my saltwater tank about two weeks ago. The
purpose of this, of course, was to let the water age. Trouble is, I
forgot about it sat outside for about 10 days longer than normal. The
water has taken on a decidedly green coloration. I know I have
inoculated it with organisms from my tank by putting my circulation pump
in it because I can see them swimming around in there. Is this water
safe to use for water changes (that was its original purpose)?
<Probably yes. But personally I would hesitate to use it, too. Besides
the somehow disturbing colour you cannot be absolutely sure the
phytoplankton that turns the water green does not produce any toxic
metabolites.>
Have I cultured "green water"?
<Basically yes, but
usually you start by seeding with specific and known phytoplankton
species. Without a microscope and some literature you cannot be sure
what species you have now.>
I am inclined to just discard it to be
safe, but if I have cultured phytoplankton it would be great to try
using it in my system to feed the polyps, etc that I know eat this
stuff.
<Same answer as above. Although most likely safe, it cannot
be excluded this phytoplankton may produce toxic compounds. To get rid
of it you can run a diatom filter and/or a filter with very dense foam
material, and don’t forget activated carbon to bind and remove possible
metabolites, too.>
If it matters, the water has had salt mixed in
with it the entire time it was outside.
Thanks, Craig.
<You are
welcome. Marco.>
I want to make sure I have this water thing straight...
Mainly storing/using RO and synthetic SW 7/8/07
Hi
there everyone!
First, I apologize this is so long - many questions,
all gathered over the last 2 weeks of intensive reading. I have been
reading your web site (made a a donation also,
<Thank you :)>
because I feel like I have read a small book in the past few days) about
deep sand beds, skimmers, RO water, water in general, and other assorted
stuff. Whew, what a bunch of information!...thanks for providing this
site with all your answers to people's questions.
However, I still
have a few questions I did not see answers for.
After reading about
water, I want to make sure I have this straight: I have a Kent Marine
Pro Hi-S RO unit (installed Dec. 06, primarily because our water company
has regular outages (3-4 last year) that put us on boil water
advisories, and are not always the best about notification...this way I
have water to drink, as well as making my fish happy). This means I no
longer need to carry buckets from my LFS guy - nice. However, because of
low water pressure, it takes a few days (or more dedicated gathering
from me) to gather all the water needed for water changes (a 29 gallon
freshwater and a 29 gallon reef.
If I read everything correctly, I
can put the RO water directly in my reef tank (3 fish, ~20 corals of
various types, although mostly SPS, somewhere between 25-40 lbs. LR,
deep sand bed) without adding anything - as long as I put it in a 1
gallon container and drip it over the course of 1-2 hours to replace
evaporated water. Correct?
<That's a lot of work. If you just need to
replace a gallon, you can just pour it all in at once. Just make sure
your top off water temperature is relatively close to tank temperature.
If it's right out of the RO unit it could be really cold. Now, if you're
mixing Kalk solution or something like that, then it's prudent to drip
it in. >
After reading about buffering, should I automatically buffer
it even before adding it this way? And if I store it while I am
gathering 5 gallons in a bucket (usually 2 days of gathering), it should
go into a covered container with a powerhead or airstone to circulate
the water and prevent it from becoming stagnant, right? Or how fast does
it go stale?
<Are you doing all this just for top off water?
Buffering (if needed) and circulation are good things to do for water
changes, but usually unnecessary for small top offs.>
As a Christmas
present, my brother presented me with ~10 5-gal. buckets that were once
used to keep kosher dill pickles. Will the pickle smell hurt anything if
I store water in these containers?
<I doubt it. The smell is
probably from the vinegar and a little vinegar shouldn't hurt anything.
However, if you're really concerned, just test the water's pH before
using it.>
Or should I try to clean out the buckets (don't know how,
it seems to have permeated the plastic - overwhelming smell if you close
the bucket up and then open it a few days later!).
<Coincidently,
many aquarists use vinegar to clean out buckets and equipment because
it's a safe cleaner that dissolves calcium deposits. You should rinse
out the buckets well, but I can't imagine you'd need to worry about any
residual vinegar that might have penetrated the buckets.>
Also, re:.
adding saltwater - if I only add 1-3 gallons (less than 10% on my tank),
I can mix up the water and add it without a 1-3 day prep, however, if I
have more, I need to create it, keep it heated, and aerated...again in a
covered container. Right?
<This is the most prudent practice, yes.
That said, if you need to do a water change in a hurry or in an
emergency, just make sure the water is well mixed and close to tank
temp, salinity and pH.>
Also, how long does it take for mixed
saltwater to go bad if there is no aeration?
<I'm not sure what you
mean by "go bad." However long you let it sit, you can always re-aerate
it. If you're ever worried, you can always test the water's pH. Sitting
water freshly out of the RO unit can sometimes be acidic. Aerating it
should remedy this.>
I read quite a bit mentioning this, but never
with any general timeframes - it makes me think the water will go stale
(fresh) or bad (salt) if I leave it unaerated even 24-48 hours, hence
the questions.
<I think you may be over-thinking some of this. If
your water has been sitting for over 24hrs, just re-aerate it with a
powerhead. :) >
Thanks again for all your inputs and your fast
answers to everyone's questions,
<No problem. Thanks for writing.>
Kerstin DeRolf :-)
P.S. I know my current tank is crowded - I am
hoping to upgrade soon. However, everyone is generally happy, so it must
not be too bad for them - I just know I would like to have more room for
all, so I am hoping to upgrade to a 92-gallon this fall (if my husband
doesn't have a conniption). Thx again, Kestin:-)
<Overcrowding with
fish is especially bad for reef tanks. It will be good if you can
upgrade to a bigger tank. Just try to resist the temptation to get more
fish for the bigger tank. ;)
Best,
Sara M.>
Mainly storing/using RO and synthetic SW... Double-posted...
7/8/07
Try 2, in case it didn't go through the first time...I
want to make sure I have this water thing straight...
<You'll learn
not to double-post here...>
Hi there everyone!
First, I apologize
this is so long - many questions, all gathered over the last 2 weeks of
intensive reading.
I have been reading your web site (made a donation
also (FYI for those who don't realize it's possible),
<Oh, yes. Our
Amazon "begging bowl" is at the bottom of most pages>
because I feel
like I have read a small book in the past few days) about deep sand
beds, skimmers, RO water, water in general, and other assorted stuff,
and I know I have much reading left to do. Whew, what a bunch of
information!... thanks for providing this site with all your answers to
people's questions. However, I still have a few questions I did not see
answers for.
<Okay>
After reading about water, I want to make sure
I have this straight: I have a Kent Marine Pro Hi-S RO unit (installed
Dec. 06, primarily because our water company has regular outages (3-4
last year) that put us on boil water advisories, and are not always the
best about notification... this way I have water to drink, as well as
making my fish happy).
<Good>
This means I no longer need to carry
buckets from my LFS guy - nice.
<Ah, yes>
However, because of low
water pressure, it takes a few days (or more dedicated gathering from
me) to gather all the water needed for water changes (a 29 gallon
freshwater and a 29 gallon reef).
If I read everything correctly, I
can put the RO water directly in my reef tank (3 fish, ~20 corals of
various types, although mostly SPS, somewhere between 25-40 lbs. LR,
deep sand bed but no sump or refugium) without adding anything - I do it
with a 1 gallon container and drip it over the course of 1-2 hours to
replace evaporated water. Correct?
<Should be fine... If the changes
were a few gallons all at once, I'd suggest aerating the water... And of
course, making any chemical and physical changes to it ahead of use>
After reading about buffering, should I automatically buffer it even
before adding it this way?
<If needed, yes>
And if I store it
while I am gathering 5 gallons in a bucket (usually 2 days of
gathering), it should go into a covered container with a powerhead or
airstone to circulate the water and prevent it from becoming stagnant,
right?
<A good idea>
Or how fast does it go stale?
<Mmm, never
really>
On a slightly different topic...As a Christmas present, my
brother presented me with ~10 5-gal. buckets that were once used to keep
kosher dill pickles. Will the pickle smell (which has seriously
permeated the plastic) hurt anything if I store water in these
containers? Or should I try to clean out the buckets (open to a
suggestion how, am leery of using bleach).
<Do give them a scrub with
"rock salt" or such... and a few rinses till there is no smell... I
prefer the Rubbermaid Brute trashcan series... maybe with a spiffy
wheeled cart, cover...>
Also, re:. adding saltwater - if I only add
1-3 gallons (less than 10% on my tank), I can mix up the water and add
it without a 1-3 day prep, however, if I have more, I need to create it,
keep it heated, and aerated...again in a covered container. Right?
<This is best>
Also, how
long does it take for mixed saltwater to
go bad if there is no aeration?
<Again... indefinitely good...>
I
read quite a bit mentioning this, but never with any general timeframes
- it makes me think the water will go stale (fresh) or bad (salt) if I
leave it unaerated even 24-48 hours, hence the questions.
Thanks
again for all your inputs and your fast answers to everyone's questions,
Kerstin DeRolf :-)
<No worries re the water going "bad"... the same
molecules have been on this planet for billions of years...>
P.S. I
know my current tank is crowded - I am hoping to upgrade soon. However,
everyone is generally happy (randomly checked levels, and other than an
elevated nitrate (am getting a new protein skimmer), all values are as
dictated (ammonia 0, nitrite 0, alkalinity 9dHK, pH 8.0 (before bright
lights on), spg 1.026, calcium 420) so it must not be too bad for them -
I just know I would like to have more room for all, so I am hoping to
upgrade to a 92-gallon this fall (if my husband doesn't have a
conniption). Thx again, Kerstin:-)
<Heeee! Welcome. Bob Fenner>
Saltwater Storage…Is A Week Too Long? – 06/24/07
Hi,
<<Hello>>
I have just got a few books out the library to learn a few more things
about marine tanks and so far the water changes I’ve been doing the
water I use I just mixed up and put straight in (probably not a good
idea).
<<Not in my opinion>>
But now I read that you should mix up
the water and then leave it for a while to mature.
<<Indeed>>
So
I’ve gone out and brought 2 more buckets and I’m using one for the
freshwater for topping up evaporated water and one for the mixed
saltwater.
<<Okay>>
I was hoping you could tell me if this was a
good idea or not or if the water would go bad just being left? (The
water is left in the bucket for about a week).
<<A week is fine mate,
and will give the salt time to blend/chemical processes time to
complete. And I do suggest covering the bucket to keep out light/dust
and adding a small powerhead or air stone for aeration>>
I’ve got a
25-gallon tank and the water changes I have been doing is about ten
litres (size of bucket) around every two weeks. Hope you can tell me if
I’m doing a good thing or not. Thanks
<<Should be fine. EricR>>
Storing salt 6/9/07
Hello wet web,
I have heard of
people storing their salt in buckets and come to find that it has dried
out. Can this really happen? does the salt need to be stored in the bag
that it comes in?
Mike
<Mmm, not dried out... actually the
opposite. Salt mixes (and table, NaCl for that matter) are
hygroscopic... attract water... clumping together... Should be stored
with little air circulation to prevent the product/mix from "turning
into a brick"... But can still be used in any case... just not as easily
water-soluble... Better... again, to mix, store, circulate ahead of
use... as posted... BobF>
Water change bio-filter &
Ca/alk question 5/14/07
Hey guys-
<Wes>
First off, as always, thanks. I do believe I have read all the
relevant FAQs, but I could be wrong, there's a lot on your site! :-)
<Oh yes... and much more to go>
Couple of quick questions
(hopefully). For my SW tanks, I use tap water (gasp!) mixed in a
Rubbermaid container. I am in the habit of doing 10% changes once or
twice or weekly (40 reef, 50 FOWLR). I have been immediately replacing
the water taken with tap water (gasp!) adding a few drops (aprox 2mL) of
AmQuel +(will switch to regular am-quel next time around), and then
slowly adding in salt. The water is constantly being aerated and
there's a powerhead mixing up the solution. The water usually is heated
and stays around 75-80 degrees. I'm a relative newby, but this seems to
be working well and allows me to do frequent small changes. My question
is if the container constantly has SW in it, has a biological filter
developed?
<Mmm, maybe a bit>
My tap water does have trace
amounts of ammonia from the faucet, but it is undetectable in the
Rubbermaid after AmQuel and storage (even overnight). Is this because
of dilution, bio-filtration, or the am-quel?
<Or out-gassing likely>
Would it be a good idea to put any amount of substrate in there for
bio-filtration to build up, or would the widely varying chemicals and
salinity wreak any chances of life?
<I would not change your
protocol>
Getting rid of extra chemical additions would be nice.
Next, I have been dosing Kalk overnight to maintain pH and keep my
calcium and alkalinity up (in the reef only). I have no troubles
keeping calcium at 400-440, but the alkalinity has suffered.
<As it
will with sole Kalk use...>
When I started the tank, it was around
130ppm, now it's staying around 90. I was wondering if there is
something askew because I use tap water to make the Kalk, or if calcium
might be elevating and precipitating out the alkalinity
<Bingo>
though I have seen no snowstorms and no precipitation is noticeable on
my powerheads or the like. I was wondering if it would be a good idea
to drip a pH raising alk supplement (SeaChem reef buffer) nightly while
monitoring until the levels fall more into balance and then switching
back to Kalk.
<Yes. Please read here:
http://www.wetwebmedia.com/calcalkmar.htm
and the linked files
above>
Wes
ps-- I have to mention that every time I email you
guys I have to resist asking a million more questions than the ones I
planned. Time for more reading! hazah for WWM! HAZAH!
<Heeeee!
"Hey, I didn't get a huzzah out of that guy in the corner... Watch your
sphincter!" (Mel Brooks', Blazing Saddles). BobF>
R3: Gold
Algae Plague Driving Me Mad - and speculations re SW mix usability
03/27/07
Hi Eric,
<<Greetings Arno>>
My light intensity
statement is no contradiction to previous statements...: previously the
tanks were lit by the same artificial means, but also in addition by
natural daylight, thus receiving a higher light intensity than any tank
imaginable solely lit by artificial means.
<<Ah yes, you did mention
exposure to natural daylight. But (and just musing now), if the tanks
were not lit directly; as from above rather than from the sides (the
tanks were stacked, yes?), and also considering your latitude, just how
"intense" was that sunlight I wonder? And not to offend...but I seem to
recall from living there that full days of sunlight were more the
exception than the rule>>
Under those circumstances the algae came
into being and grew even faster than it does now. I am more thinking
along the line that I suspect that the light spectrum of the T5's is
different than that of the MH's, which is perhaps causing the problem,
not the intensity.
<<A possibility, agreed>>
***(this is an
excerpt from the previous exchange) An interesting perspective... But
I must say I fundamentally disagree (and a bit taken by surprise)...and
am more than a little interested in how you have come to this
determination***
It's not so much me who has come to this
determination, but I heard this from people that are well into
chemistry; certain trace and macro elements will fall out/precipitate if
you aerate artificial seawater for a longer stretch of time. You can
also observe this, as the container in which you aerate the water ill
soon show precipitation. In addition it can, to some extend, also be
measured. E.g. calcium, KH, magnesium and strontium levels tend to be
lower after several days than the first day.
<<I understand your
point Arno, and will agree to some extent on the precipitation of some
earth/bio-mineral elements, but these small losses are also easily
refreshed/replaced "if" necessary. As for other "trace" elements (many
of which we as hobbyists don't or can't test for), many are added to
artificial salt mixes in quantities exceeding natural saltwater levels
as well as some added to our systems through everyday means (feedings
mostly)...I've even read speculation that some of these trace elements
may even build to "toxic levels" in our tanks. I feel it is more
important to let all the chemical processes complete and the water age
before use rather than worry over some small amount of precipitation. I
age my water in a covered container for three weeks on average, using a
powerhead for circulation rather than an airstone, and have never found
the amount of precipitation to be detrimental...I find it difficult to
believe that aging/aerating artificial seawater for several weeks will
render it "fundamentally unfit for sps" as you state. Bob has a pretty
good chemistry background, perhaps he will render an opinion re>> <Mmm,
interesting speculations... and well-worth investigating. Ron Shimek had
some assertions re the lack of utility of synthetic salt mixes period...
Others have touched on precipitation issues... Within practical
"reason"... weeks of storage, use... I don't find any such issues being
valid... IO/Instant Ocean for instance is still used planet-wide for all
sorts of SOP bio-assays, culture... RMF>
gr's
Arno
<<Regards,
Eric Russell>>
What is the shelf life of sand-filtered
organic seawater? 1/23/07
I can't thank you enough for your free
advice. "Please sir, may I have more?" <No pudding for you.> I am
setting up a 90 gallon marine tank. I don't want to mix my own water,
or buy it by the gallon at the LFS. <Why not?> Scripps Institute of
oceanography in San Diego is about a thirty minute drive away, and they
have a faucet for free public use that dispenses natural seawater which
has been filtered through sand. I want to store about 100 gallons of
this water (in dark blue, virgin, plastic, fully enclosed 55 gallon
drums) at my house (outside), and use it for weekly water changes. This
way I will only need to haul water from Scripps every couple of
months. The drums have threaded caps, and so can either be completely
closed, or allowed to be open to the outside air. The drums are also
opaque, so sunlight won't get in, although the outside temp might be in
the 90's during the summer. Will this scheme work? What is the shelf
life of sand-filtered organic seawater? What else should I consider/do
before using this stored water in my tank?
<I don't think this will
work, the filtered sea water will still be biologically alive and will
not be able to be kept long term, just a few days at most without quite
a bit of work. Please see here for more
http://www.wetwebmedia.com/seawater.htm >
<Chris>
Mixing saltwater in high temperatures 8/23/06
Greetings and thank you for your great website.
<Howdy and welcome>
I am new to the saltwater aquarium hobby and I have a couple
of questions about mixing saltwater. I would like to mix saltwater for
my weekly water changes in my garage due to lack of space and a two year
old son that is fascinated by all things fish related.
<Heeee!>
Here lies the problem: I live in the desert and after brewing the
saltwater for a few days in the garage, the temperature is close to a
hundred degrees when I go to use it, even if I "harvest" it early in the
morning. My plan is to mix the water in my garage but at a high SG for
several days and then bring the water into the house; add cold RO water
(no salt) that has been stored in the refrigerator; mix it for another
hour or two; and then adjust for PH, SG, and temperature to match that
of the display tank. I understand that temperature affects SG and would
consider it when mixing my "recipe." Does this sound like a plan that
will lead to optimal water quality?
<Sounds like a very
workable plan>
In addition, I am having difficulty maintaining the
PH in my display tank but absolutely no problem maintaining it in my
quarantine tank.
<Mmmmm>
My display tank (24 gallons) has
about 20 lbs of live rock and a 1/2 inch layer of live sand while the
display tank is bare bottom with just PVC pipes, a heater, and a power
filter. I use the same water in both tanks. Is it likely that the PH
problem has to do with inadequate aeration in the display tank?
<Mmm, possibly a contributing factor... but not alone>
And would
an airstone added to the filtration compartment of the display tank help
stabilize PH in the tank?
<Might, worth
trying...>
Thank You,
Ande
<Do you have an alkalinity test
kit? Please read here:
http://www.wetwebmedia.com/marphalk.htm
and the linked files
above. Bob Fenner>
Storing Premixed Water - 10/18/06
I have a 215G aquarium that I
have filled with R/O water and mixed with salt that I was going to start
adding cured live rock to this week. I have since decided to purchase
uncured live rock and do the curing myself in some separate Rubbermaid
containers. I was told that I didn't need to use purified water for
curing the live rock since the water will have so much organics in it
from the process. I have well water that should work since it contains
no chlorine.
Since this process is likely to take a few
weeks, I'm now concerned about the water that I have in my aquarium.
Will my premixed water be ok to store for a few weeks if I keep this
water circulating in a dark & cool room? I'm hoping that I won't have
to purify and mix another 215G of water. Thank you for your advice.
<Kevin, should be no problem doing so. James (Salty Dog)>
Kevin
Saltwater Lifespan - Synthetic and NSW 12/1/06
Hi Crew,
<Hey
Mohamed, JustinN with you again>
I was told the synthetic SW mix
should only be kept for a week at most or else it loses its properties
but reading on WetWebMedia it can be kept for months.
<If kept in a
closed container and circulated, this is the case.>
Must the
synthetic SW mix be kept in a certain way by using an air stone, etc or
in a bucket will be fine?
<An air stone or powerhead, and a heater
would be best... I personally use a powerhead and a heater in a covered
food-grade trash can.>
Likewise on NSW, how long can it be kept and
under what conditions?
<About the same as artificial sea water. Hope
this helps you! -JustinN>
Thanks
Mohamed Storing
Seawater
>Hi there!
>>Greetings!
>I am hoping to be able to
store enough seawater to last a couple of months at a time, is this ok?
>>Yes.
>Do I need aeration, filtration, access to sunlight etc?
>>Aeration, yes, generally a pretty good idea. Prevents excess
precipitation, keeps the O2 levels up. If it's natural seawater, then
you definitely want to filter AND sterilize. I'd filter through
something like a Magnum 350 diatom filter (usually used to "polish"
water, removes very fine particulates). You may even wish to sterilize
with a bit of chlorine to be sure nothing unwanted enters, then allow to
set out, or use Sodium thiosulfate to dechlorinate should any smell
remain prior to use. Other than that, I'd use a heater to keep it warm
enough for immediate use should that be necessary.
>Any potential
problems?
>>Only if it's not covered well, sterilized/filtered prior
to storage.
>Our seawater is very clean and lovely here.
>>Nice,
and nice on the pocketbook, too.
>Cheers thanks for such a wonderful
resource! Emma
>>Quite welcome, and I'm glad you have this resource.
I find it's far better and easier to use than salt mixes, encourage
folks to make use of such (as long as unpolluted from runoff, etc.)
whenever I can. Marina Storing Saltwater
<Evening>
<Please as a side note, do not use html formatting on your
emails. It makes it very hard to read, and it is very time consuming to
remove. Thanks.>
Hello again and thanks as always for the wealth of
information you guys provide.
<Will pass along to Bob.> I've looked
thru the archives and cannot seem to find an answer to my specific
question. I broke down my 95 gallon saltwater tank yesterday, preparing
for a move next week. I have all of the water (nothing but water) in 2
large trash cans, covered, on the back porch. I live in Florida, so it
gets pretty warm in the afternoons. My question is this, being that the
water is exposed to a 20-25 degree temperature change every day, is
there anything that I can do to preserve the quality of the water, is
this temp. fluctuation going to have a negative effect on the bacteria
in the water? Thanks a bunch for your help.
Dean
<Well Dean,
Most of your bacteria will be in the rocks, substrate, and on the tank
sides. If you can, the best way to ease a move is to keep the bottom of
the tank covered in an inch of water or so and use a bubbler and air
pump to keep the bacteria going. Put some fish flakes or some sort of
ammonia in there to keep everything going at least once to ensure the
best bacteria continuance to ease or eliminate cycling of the tank
again. Also if your substrate and LR are in separate buckets give them
some sort of water movement, like a power head to facilitate O2
conversion. Please do keep the prus objects from the tank like sponges
tank decorations and anything else in saltwater as well and you may be
able to set everything right back up with very little hassles. The
water itself will be fine, I would check it the day you put it back
in the tank to make sure no large ammonia nitrite or carbon dioxide
accumulations have occurred while it was in the bags. Good luck>
<Justin (Jager)> Synthetic salt/ph 10/20/05
Hi crew,
<Mornin' Mohamed>
I have been testing a South African manufactured
salt.
It has a ph reading of 8.8.<Wow>
Is this to high for
corals/fish?
<Yes.>
Thanks
<Welcome. - Josh>
Mohamed.
<<Likely just aerating and storing for a few days (a
good practice for all mixes), will show the pH settling down. RMF>>
R/O storage trace nitrites 12/30/2005
Great work on the
website!
<Thank you>
I have a new dedicated trashcan and Kent
Marine R/O D/I Maximma 50GPD. I am already finding trace amounts of
nitrite in my brand new clean Rubbermaid trashcan.
<Unusual... I
would give this can/container a good scrubbing with coarse salt and a
brush (new) followed by rinsing, soaking with freshwater>
I have
tested the R/O drip which is perfectly clean, but when my trashcan is
full I am finding slightly detectable levels of nitrite after about 15
hours. Any cleaning advice on the Rubbermaid or is the SUPER CLEAN D/I
water causing it to grow bacteria so quickly I cannot stop it?
Thanks!!!!
Bryan
<Am at a loss here. I would contact the folks
at Rubbermaid for their input... and scrub the container as mentioned.
Cheers, Bob Fenner>
Heating The Make-up Water...How? -
01/11/06
Good Morning,
<<Good evening>>
First I would
like to say thanks for your devotion to teaching people like myself.
<<You're welcome...but not so much teaching as sharing...hoping to make
a difference...>>
I recently purchased an RO/DI system. (Got tired
of hauling jugs back and forth from the LFS
<<I would too.>>
and
wasn't so trusting with their RO water.
<<Hmm...>>
I purchased a
6 stage system. (I know this may be overkill but I got a good deal on
the net.)
<<Tis fine>>
My space is limited so I opted for a
Rubbermaid 23 gallon
rectangular (restaurant style) trash can as a
reservoir. I dumped the first batch and am now ready to start mixing my
own water. I will use a Rubbermaid 18 gallon tub to mix my salt in. (I
apologize for making this a bit long, just wanted to paint a clear
picture for you.)
<<No worries mate, the "detail" is a good thing.>>
From what I have read, I should aerate my water for 6 hours or so
<<I prefer aeration for 24 hrs. prior to use to expel all carbon
dioxide/allow pH to stabilize.>>
and get it to 80 degrees before
adding salt.
<<Match the temperature in your tank.>>
Is this
correct?
<<See above>>
Here comes my dilemma. Do you have an
idea of how I could heat my water?
<<Um, sure...use an aquarium
heater.>>
I considered adding a 200 watt heater to the mixing
container, but am afraid the heater will burn a hole in the plastic.
<<Small concern (if any at all). I've been doing just this for
decades...haven't burned a hole through any of my water containers yet
<grin>. As long as the heater stays submerged/there is water in the
container it shouldn't get hot enough to melt through.>>
Should I
make a baffle type piece to mount the heater on?
<<Can...is up to
you.>>
I am open for suggestions here.
<<Of little/no concern
really. Just drop the heater in to the container or fashion a method to
keep it off the bottom...your choice...whichever makes you feel
better. Do be sure to keep the heater submerged at all times.>>
I
have so many ideas running through my head now with other projects.
(auto top off systems, sumps, etc...) I guess I would just like to hear
how someone else has accomplished this. Thanks for taking the time to
help another obsessed aquarium keeper.
Steve
<<No problem
Steve. regards, EricR>>
-Storing premixed
saltwater-
I have a 55 gallon saltwater tank with 60 lbs of live
rock, a few
fish, SPS corals, anemones and many inverts. I make my
own saltwater using distilled water <Be wary of distilled water unless
you are absolutely sure it hasn't come in contact with any metals
(especially copper) during the distilling process.> and keep it in a 18
gallon tank in my garage with crushed coral and a aqua clear 500 filter.
I use the foam filter inside the filter and add a little carbon every
other month to keep the water crystal clear. My question is: Should I
keep the crushed coral in the 18 gallon tank or should I remove it and
use only a bare aquarium to keep my premixed saltwater? <You don't
really need anything in the barrel besides the filter and maybe an
airstone> Should I take the crushed coral out and add a few lbs of live
rock? <I wouldn't, because you will have to feed it, the critters will
produce waste, etc.> What is the best way to store the premixed
saltwater so I can use it for quick and easy water changes? <Keep it
well circulated and aerated if possible. Good luck! -Kevin> Thank you!
Donovan SALTWATER STORAGE
>Hi,
>>Greetings.
>I
have just started to store pre-mixed salt water. I have a Rubbermaid
trash can ( 20 gallon, didn't have room for a larger one). I add the
water and let my pump aerate it for 24 hours. Then I add my salt. How
long should I aerate it then?
>>Keep the water in movement (either
through powerhead or air stone) as long as it's being stored.
>I have
heard that aerating too long after adding salt can cause some important
elements to escape; but I have also heard that water must be continually
aerated to keep it from stagnating.
>>The only elements you'll lose
are the salt itself from salt creep (if using an air stone).
>My
container is in the house so it stays cool. Should I cover the can to
keep it totally dark?
>>Best practice, my friend. Keeps bad things
out, eliminates evaporation. Do be sure to bring the water to proper
temperature before using.
>How long will the water stay good in the
container? The water will last me for 3 weekly water changes. Will
the water stay good that long? (3 weeks)?
>>Easily. If we were
looking for months, then I'd be more inclined to treat it as I would
fresh potable water, and in that situation I would lightly chlorinate
and have Sodium thiosulfate on hand for dechlorination if used before
dissipation. In other words, keep it covered and circulated, and you'll
be golden.
>Thank you for your help, James
>>Most welcome. Marina
WATER CHANGES AND STORAGE
Hi, Hope things are going well
there. I have a couple of questions for you please. First, After
purchasing a plastic container to store sea water in for water changes,
how should it be cleaned before use? With salt?
<Yes to cleaning...
with rock salt, water and a clean "scrubby", then a good freshwater
rinsing>
Also I know the container should be covered most of the time
to prevent contaminants, but I have heard as mixed sea water "cures" it
releases certain compounds into the air. Shouldn't the lid be left off
sometimes to let these escape?
<A loose fitting top (which almost all
are) is best, adding a recirculating pump or powerhead is a bonus for
stirring as well as warming, aiding you in pumping the water out>
And
lastly, I use a piece of plastic tubing to draw out old water before
making a water change. Would having the end of it directly on the
substrate help get out more organics.
Don't they usually accumulate
closer to the bottom of the water column?
<Yes... do look into
"store-bought" gravel vacuums here. Many are well made for this purpose>
As always, thanks for your good help. James
James Hall
<Welcome.
Bob Fenner> Re: WATER CHANGES AND STORAGE
Would the sea
salt work to clean?
<Of a certainty, yes. Just more expensive than
plain "rock salt" for the job. Bob Fenner> - Storing Synthetic
Seawater - Same question posed thrice, answered by Kevin here
Hi, I am currently pre-mixing my salt water in a Rubbermaid container
for future water changes. After aerating for 24 hours I add the salt.
How long do I aerate after salt is added? <Until you use it>
I have
heard not long due to loss of carbonates and I have also heard to
continually aerate as long as the water is in storage.
<I'd either
run a small powerhead inside or keep on aerating. It should be fine to
use for weeks.>
My water storage lasts me for 3 weeks of water
changes.
<Sounds good, Good luck! -Kevin>
Thank you, James
Saltwater too Salty - 8/28/03
Dear WWM Crewperson:
I just made
32 gallons of saltwater for my storage batch, and I made it a bit
strong, around 1.030. I would rather not dump some out and add fresh
water. Can I add some of my top-off water to my water change bucket at
the time of a 2-4 gallon change in order to bring it down to
1.025? Thanks,
Rich
<Yes you can. Should be no problem. Bob
Fenner> Can I Still Use This Saltwater?
>Hi Crew,
>>Hello questioner.
>I'm back again with another 'newbie' question.
(didn't have much look with the chat room, and haven't found anything in
my shiny new copy of CMA).
>>Didn't have much look, or luck? In any
event...
>Sixteen days ago I mixed 20 gallons of RO with Instant
Ocean mix to 1.023 sg in a very clean plastic trash can. I didn't need
it then as I thought I would, and it's been in the covered can in my
garage (75-90F) since then. I planned to use it for a water change today
and found a thin white "dusty" film of solids on the surface when I
uncovered it. Substance doesn't seem to want to re-dissolve easily with
stirring. pH still tests good at 8.0 and s.g. is only slightly over
1.023 (can be corrected I'm sure).
>>Yes it can.
>Is the water
safe?
>>I don't see why not, if it doesn't smell bad. However,
AERATE it for at least 24 hours before using, it could have a very low
degree of dissolved oxygen at this point.
>More tests?
>>O2
saturation, or aerate.
>What's the white stuff?
>>Not knowing
where you are, and being in southern California, my mind is on ash fall.
I would take some paper towels and skim them across the surface to
remove this stuff. If it goes with them, great, if not, then I might
hook up a small power filter.
>I need to do a water change, but I'm
scared of it. Should I be?
>>BOO! (Sorry, and here I'm just sick of
Halloween..)
>Thanks for the great work you guys/gals do. Randy C.
>>Just be prudent and cautious, remember that the high temperatures will
lower the O2, if everything else checks out ok, then don't worry too
much. But do remove the film, I'd feel better if you did, and I like to
visualize a grown man standing over a can of water passing paper towels
over it, makes me smile. Marina - Storing Saltwater -
I
mixed about 25 gal of saltwater (Reef Crystals) in a large Rubbermaid
trash can for storage. The water was filtered thought the Aquarium
Pharm. tap water filter. I also used a fairly powerful powerhead to
dissolve the salt, but no heater. It is in my garage which can get down
into the 50's at night. After a few days I achieved the correct
specific gravity. However, about 10 days later, it looks like part of
the salt precipitated out of the water and is clinging to the sides and
the bottom of the trash can as well as the powerhead. <More likely that
this is the calcium.> It comes off easily if I rub it. Is this due to
the temperature drop? <I don't think so - solution was likely
saturated.> The specific gravity has dropped from 1.026 to 1.023.
<Fascinating - I wouldn't have predicted that unless your original
reading was wrong... air bubble on the swing arm or something. Typically
even salt water in storage will get saltier as water evaporates and salt
does not.>
Thanks,
Randy
<Cheers, J -- > - Water
Storage -
Hello crew! Got one for you I will try to be brief. I
have 2-45 gallon Brute trash cans for my water. I plan on having my
RO/DI connected to these. Can I tie both cans together at bottom via
bulkhead and a ball valve between them? <I don't see why not.> And if I
install a float switch in the first can will both cans keep at the same
water height without the second one overflowing? <I'm not sure that it
will work... but it may. Would be something to experiment with.>
Many
thanks.. again
<Cheers, J -- >
- Mix Water Storage -
Hi,
Now that I am tired of mixing water every week I decided to set
up a 35gal garbage bin with pre-mixed salt water. I filled it up,
dechlorinated it, mixed in salt then put in a heater and a 300gph
powerhead with a working air venturi. (Note: Our tap water is great
here, all the aquarium stores use it with no problems.)
My questions
are, is there a shelf life for that water? <Well... as long as the water
is well circulated and aerated, it will last a pretty long time - not
years, but several months.> I only have a 33 & 10 gal tank and change a
total of 7 gallons per week of water. So, this will last me about a
month. <Perfect.> I leave the heater and powerhead on all the time.
Also, do I need to leave the heater and powerhead on all the time or
just run a couple of days before the water changes? <I'd leave the
powerhead on 24/7 and heat only before it's time to use the water.>
Thanks in advance.
Darrin
<Cheers, J -- > - Storing Water
and More -
Crew, good morning. Great site as usual...
I had a
few questions about a storage system for fresh and saltwater. I plan on
having two 44 gallon Rubbermaid Brute trash cans for water storage.
<Ok.> One for fresh, one for salt. <Sounds good.> I will have a poly
filter supplying the trash cans. <Ok.>
Do I keep the lids on them all
the time? <I would... keeps the bugs and dust out... perhaps a small
hole so you can get electrical cords in and out.>
Do I keep an
airstone in each working at all times? <I'd use a pump to make sure the
entire barrel is being turned over. An airstone would be extra but would
do no harm.>
Do I keep a pump moving the water at all times or only
when I plan on adding salt? <I try to keep barrels full of water moving
all the time.>
Somebody in your crew wrote that it would be good to
use a Mag Drive 500 pump. Is this pump too much movement and do you
keep it on at all times? <Actually... I think I have a Mag 7 in my water
garbage can right now.> If it is too much, what would you recommend?
<MaxiJet 1200 would do.>
Should I have one pump for each trash can?
<Yes... would be cheaper to go with the Maxijets.>
I plan on having
these storage cans in the garage and I want to install PVC up about 10
feet, over about 6 feet and back down 10 feet into my sump in the living
room. I was thinking about an Ampmaster or Iwaki pump (unsure what
size). I will have a hardwired switch in the living room to manually
turn on and off the pump to bring in top off water/salt water. Do you
see any problems/suggestions with this idea? <I think that would work...
perhaps with some kind of secondary shutoff near the tank in case the
switch stops working. You just can't be too careful with this stuff.> I
don't really understand all the pumping problems.
Sorry for all the
lame questions, but I am just starting and I want to get it right before
I buy. <Not lame questions at all.>
Thanks for all your hard work
and time spent.
Dan
<Cheers, J -- > Cigarette in my
mixing water!
Sorry for bothering you again, Blundell (or
whoever is on duty for the day). << Blundell again. >> I have been
preparing my saltwater in a 32 gallon Rubbermaid tub with a small
powerhead for circulation. As I was fiddling with my old tank, the
cigarette (new and never lit) resting behind my ear fell into my
Rubbermaid tub with the saltwater! << Doh >>
I saw it fall in and
quickly grabbed it out (so it was probably in contact w/ the water for
maybe a second or two). Have I contaminated my water and must I now
throw away all that salt and preparation time put into it? Thank you
again!
<< No, I wouldn't worry about. Personally, something that
small wouldn't bother me. I'd be more worried about the chemicals that
were used to make that Rubbermaid than the cig that fell in. >>
-Dennis
<< No worries, Blundell >> <... dismal... RMF would NOT use
this water... Nicotine and many other tobacco ingredients/matters are
too likely to be too-a-degree toxic here> Storing & Mixing
Water (8/8/04)
Hello again! <Greetings. Steve Allen here.>
Three quick questions...
I need to get a container to pre-mix for
water changes. In one post, Bob says, "Get/use a chemically inert, clean
'trash can'..." In an article, I think he specifies "Rubbermaid"
brand. Of course, I will buy new and dedicate to the task, but how do I
know if they are safe (chemically inert)? <Anything recommended for food
should be fine. I'd expect most brands of plastic ones to be fine.> Is
any Rubber-maid OK? Other brands? I would like to get a wheeled tote
about 35 gallon or so. The Rubber-maid with wheels has metal
reinforcements for the handles on the inside of the can. I looked at
another brand that didn't (Dura-bin? I think) that was brown plastic and
square. Recommendations? <The Rubbermaid Brute has served me well. The
one I have has no metal parts. I put mine on wheels for ease of use.>
Will my old Mag 5 pump work in place of a powerhead to mix the
solution? <Just set it up so it does not spurt water up and out of the
container. I use a hose to pump straight from the can into my tank in
the next room.>
I don't know how hot heaters get on the surface.
Can they melt the plastic garbage cans if they come in contact with it,
or should they be rigged away from the sides? <Unlikely to get that hot
when in water. However, I use the plastic sheath that one can buy for
specific brands of heater. I use a Hagen Tronic and the sheath they sell
for it.> If the latter, how do you do it? Ooops, that was more than 3
questions, wasn't it? <No problem.> Thanks! Greg Smith <Hope this
helps.> Water storage
Happy New Year to Bob & crew!
<Good morning>
I recently got 2 blue plastic 55 gal. barrels for use
as water storage containers. Allegedly used for wine transport by a
local winery. Intent is/was 1 for SW mix, 1 for R.O. water. I have
washed them out twice with hot water & chlorine bleach, de-chlorinated
with Aquatronics "De-Chlor", & rinsed twice. I still end up with a thin
film (scum) on the surface when I fill with R.O. water. The
distributor said they were just "steamed" out, but since they are a
large barrel recycler, I don't know if they used any kind of cleaning
agent, soap or ??? In your opinion, am I taking an un-necessary chance
with these barrels? Would running a canister filter with carbon help to
remove any potential contamination?
<I am suspicious too... and would
not use these tubs just yet. Are they polyethylene? If so, they may have
to be "cured" over some time to remove whatever the residue is. For now,
try scrubbing them out with rock salt, a little water and a tough
sponge... and let very salty water sit in them a week or more... drain,
rinse, see if the scum is gone. If not, we'll talk over what you might
do next. Bob Fenner>
Thanks, Neil Mixing/Storing Saltwater
I have a question about keeping saltwater for water changes and for
make-up. I want to pre mix salt water in a plastic 30 gallon container,
if I keep an airstone in the water how long can the water stay fresh or
does it go bad?
<Well, I don't think that it will necessarily "go
bad" after a certain time, but evaporation may occur, resulting in a
higher specific gravity. Perhaps there may be some dissipation of
compounds found in the water over time, but probably not in amounts
substantial enough to impact its usefulness, IMO. I generally mix up
water just before I use it (i.e; a couple of days).>
I have tried
this and noticed a odor from the container. Does this mean that the
pre made water has gone bad?
<Maybe it has not "gone bad", but there
might be something in the container dissolving into the water, or
perhaps the container did not completely dry out after its initial use,
and you are smelling mildew or something...? If you smell a sulfurous
smell, then there may have been some anaerobic activity occurring in the
container when it was "empty", and you're just smelling the end result.
Hard to be sure from here.>
If you have any suggestions I would
appreciate any tips. Thank you. HAPPY HOLIDAYS !! Sergio.
<Well,
Sergio, as outlined above, I'd make up the water as I need it, and clean
out and dry the container after each use. I'm sure that you'll be fine.
Good luck to you, and Happy Holidays to you, too! Regards, Scott F>
Water Storage Question
I am trying to line up everything for my
new tank. I am setting up a 180 gal. reef ready but FOWLR for starters.
<Nice size>
My question is in regards to storing water for my water
changes. A friend of mine was able to get me a 55 gallon plastic drum
that was used to store honey. (His friend works at a big cracker
factory).
<Yummy>
Would it be ok for me to was h this out with hot
water and use it for water changes?
<Should be, yes>
I will have
to cut a hole
i n the top about 6-8 ” in circumference in order to
put in the salt, heater, and a pump. If this is ok how long can store
the water?
<Indefinitely>
I plan on getting two of these drums and
always have one ready for action.
<Good idea>
Thanks in advance
for the info!
<Please see here for more:
http://www.wetwebmedia.com/water4maruse.htm
and the FAQs (linked,
in blue, at top) beyond. Bob Fenner>
Dave How to tell if a
plastic is toxic?
I went today to Home Depot trying to get a
plastic bin for a) making and aging salt water b) using it as treatment
tank for sick fish and also for quarantining new fish. I've heard there
are some plastic that can be very toxic to fish, even if just used to
mix the water and salt (brief period) but none of the buckets and bins
were labels as water/food safe or gave any other indication. How can one
tell which plastic is good and which is the bad one? thank you, Luke
<contact the manufacturer or be conservative and simply avoid any that
do not say food-safe, my friend. There are so many plastics available
and most nearly every one is safe. Anthony> Planning Large Reef
w/Water Reserve
Hello Bob,
I am now in the concept stages of
planning my dream reef tank to coincide with the purchase of a new home
18-24 months from now.
<Ahh, good to plan, anticipate>
It will be
an in-wall ~1100 g 12'x4'x3' tank with LR/LS optimized for SPS corals, 2
mixed shoals of Anthias and some other hard to keep, but compatible,
favorites on my list.
<Wow, some system!>
I read through the
large-tank/designer-tank/circulation/plumbing/mud FAQs and still have
some questions. I ask these questions, because I would rather spend the
money once going REAL SLOW and be happy with the results.
<We are in
agreement with this approach, philosophy>
I received a burst of
inspiration to add a very large water reserve to my tank plans. It came
from an UK-based hobbyist magazine article on a 2300 g water reserve
attached to a 1200 g tank with 300 fish and "wall to wall" corals. This
at-home system had lots of attached commercial equipment, but it gave me
ideas for 2000-2400 g of extra water. First of all, are you familiar
with any similar setup in the USA or the article I am referring to?
<Think I saw the article in a recent PFK issue, and yes... many folks
have sizable reservoir, water storage facilities>
What is your
opinion on the large water reserve concept?
<A good one. My
memorialized opinions re can be found here:
http://www.wetwebmedia.com/water4maruse.htm>
With respect to gas
exchange, should the large water reserve be a open top container or
would an buried water tank serve the same purpose if the main aquarium
had adequate circulation installed? I would also like your definition
"adequate" as I could not find a similarly configured system in the
FAQs.
<Should be recirculated, heated... best to use an external
pump, pump from bottom, discharge at surface in such a size, type
arrangement.>
I am leaning heavily towards EcoSystem Filtration (with
light skimming as you recommend) with two 200 g mud sumps for
redundancy, increased bioload potential, and room to hold water in case
of power failure. After the tank is well established with critters, I
plan to add a mated pair of Mandarin fishes. With Leng's system, would
an additional refugium be beneficial to the Mandarins?
<Yes>
If
so, would you recommend a sand bed to complement the mud for added
critter diversity, or would a 3rd mud-sump/refugium be the better
approach?
<Sand>
In preparing for the Anthias and Mandarins,
would it be wise to start the refugium a year prior to the large tank?
<Not so much time, but a good month or two>
Finally, I was
considering using an actuated ball valve to control water flow on two
alternating pathways on a closed circulation loop from a pressure rated
pump. The loop would feed a PVC structure hidden behind the rock work.
This would be in addition to 4 Sea-Swirls used as returns from the sumps
from a non-pressure rated pump. I have two thoughts here. First and
foremost is redundancy in the circulation plans in case one pump fails.
The second is having the top 8"-12" of the tank as an open water column
with chaotic water flow for the Anthias, some carefully selected
Surgeonfish, and some Green Chromis dithering about to keep everyone at
peace. What are your thoughts on actuated ball valves used for
alternating circulation loops?
<Generally unnecessary... better/fine
to have all the water pressure, flow discharge in a chaotic fashion w/o
the expense, restriction of valving. Try the set-up w/o the valves first
and see if you still consider them useful is my suggestion.>
Would
you consider the Sea-Swirls overkill? Am I missing something here
(including simplicity)?
<Other circulation is worthwhile>
As a
side note, I am returning to the hobby after 12 years. After reading
about 8 or 9 books on the hobby last year, I must confess that I enjoyed
the CMA the most. I truly appreciate your ongoing efforts on WWM and the
efforts of your colleagues in establishing a treasure chest of
information!
<Ahh, thank you for your kind, encouraging words. Will
share. Bob Fenner>
Thanks for your help.- Rob How Long Can
You Keep New Saltwater Around?
Good morning,
Me again and so
far so good with my tank.....feeding as advised and I think that all is
well for the time being. My question....I had quite a bit of salt water
left when I was curing my rock....about 25 gallons or so.....when I
thought that a major water change did not seem likely I put the plastic
garbage can with a tight cover in my basement (around 40 degrees) I have
it set up so that I can run some air in it and put the heater in it
before water changes.....but....right now it is off.....I knew I
wouldn't be doing a change for a while as the tank was still showing a
bit of nitrite and I wanted to leave well enough alone.....I think it is
now time to start my weekly changes. How long will that water be OK?
<As long as you keep it covered, it should be ok for awhile. The only
consideration is for evaporation elevating the salinity.>
If I just
plug in my pump and heater for a few days should it be OK or does it
ever rot.......I can mix up some new stuff but I hate to throw that old
water away...It's been in the basement for almost 3 weeks.....
Thank
you and have a great day...Helene
<Double check the salinity, heat to
appropriate temperature, and aerate well to reach peak dissolved oxygen
and you should be just fine. -Steven Pro> Salt water storage
Hi everyone-
I was hoping you folks could help me. I keep a 40 gallon
dark blue Rubbermaid tub with my premixed saltwater and have a heater
and a 120 gph powerhead in there. I always keep the lid on it.
<All
sound practices.>
This batch has been sitting about a week or so. I
took the top off and I have some sort of black looking algae starting to
grow on the sides in the current. I tested the water for phosphates and
nitrates. Phosphates were nil but the nitrates were around 25ppm or a
bit more. It also smells a bit "beachy".
<Ok>
I run the tap water
through a filter that filters out pesticides, chlorine, sediment, some
metals and VOC's and some other stuff.
<Is this an Aquarium
Pharmaceuticals Tapwater Purifier? Your description of what it filters
sounds just like the wording off of the side of the box. If it is one,
you should not have any nitrates. The TWP should have taken care of it
all, unless the cartridge was exhausted. Double check for the color
change.>
I have tested the tap water before and have had no nitrates
or phosphates. My question is, is there something in my storage process
that could create the nitrates?
<No>
I would hate to throw out 40
gallons of mixed water. Is there any way I can remove the nitrates?
<Yes and no. Nothing practical. If the cartridge was bad and it allowed
nitrates to go through, there are other contaminants present that you
cannot test for. You will have to discard the water if I am correct with
my guess.>
I just started doing the water storage routine a month or
so ago. I had been mixing the water and adding a
dechlorinator/chloramine and letting it sit for just a day. Since I have
started this water storage routine I have had a major explosion of red
algae. Is there any way these two things could be related?
<Possibly
related, although it could have been something that was warming up and
happened anyway after switching to the storage routine.>
The filter
for the tap water is also new.
<I would double check the cartridge
anyway. I had one of these years ago and I never was able to make more
than 40 gallons of clean water before I had to replace the cartridge.>
Any help would be appreciated. Thanks, den
<Talk to you later.
-Steven Pro> Re: Saltwater Storage
Steve-
Thanks for
the quick reply about the stored water problems. It is not a Aquarium
Pharmaceuticals filter. It is a double canister under sink filter, the
description of each canister is below. The filters should still have
months of life left. I have only ran a few hundred gallons thru.
Filter 1....This cartridge is utilized as a Stage 1- Pre-Filter in our
Twin Ultimate Water Filters. Combining the highly adsorptive efficiency
of an extruded Carbon block with several layers of sediment
prefiltration (5 microns) to effectively reduce Volatile Organic
Compounds, Chloroform, Chlorine, THM's and other pollutants. It also
increases the overall life and effectiveness of the Stage 2 - Doulton
Ultracarb Filter Element. Typically lasts for a full year, about 2,500
gallons.
<Sounds fine.>
Filter 2....Combining KDF, a compound of
Copper and Zinc,
<Oh... I don't like the sound of that.>
and
Granulated Activated Carbon this filter acts as the Stage-1 filter in
our Undercounter Twin Superior Water Filter. Works especially well on
Chlorine, Iron, Sulfur, Lead, heavy metals and many organic contaminants
(VOC's) including pesticides, herbicides and trihalomethanes by using
reduction-oxidation techniques combined with the adsorptive nature of
activated carbon. Lasts for about 2500 gallons.
Could the copper and
zinc compound in filter two cause a problem in the tank?
<Yes, could
give you problems. Anthony and I were just discussing the usage of zinc
orthophosphate in our local tapwater and how one of our big local
freshwater fish breeders has experienced a rash of congenital defects
from its introduction. His gentleman is going to RO water for many of
his tanks and still has some problems. Both Anthony and I suggested he
use RO/DI and have his product water tested for contaminants. I would be
very leery of this product. You will probably notice problems with your
inverts first.>
If a filter filters out chlorine would it filter out
chloramine also?
<I am not sure.>
I ask because chloramine is not
mentioned in the list.
<Yes, conspicuously absent?>
I have had
unexplained (to me) deaths of 2 cleaner shrimp, 1 sea anemone, and
several hermit crabs in the past month. It seems like the blue leg crabs
are dying but the red are fine. Don't know why. Any thoughts on that?
<It could be the water. It could also be many other things. There is not
enough information at this point.>
The fish (Naso Tang, Sailfin Tang,
Yellow Tang, Regal Blue Tang, and Damsel) have all been doing great. I
always match change water as best I can. I am in the process of
upgrading into a 125 gallon tank and I was hoping I could clear up this
problem before the move into the new tank a month from now.
<I would
strongly suggest a RO unit. Take a look at the SpectraPure line. That is
what I sell.>
If I am mixing and storing the water for a week do I
need to filter it at all?
<I prefer to use purified water whenever
possible and I recommend it most times.>
We are on Atlanta city
water. Not the greatest but good.
<I have been there a few times. My
sister-in-law and her family live in Kennesaw. There was a very nice
store in Buckhead, can't remember the name. My sister-in-law's water
seemed ok there, but the one local tank I saw used RO water. He had
extreme hair algae problems when he was using city water.>
Thanks
again, Den
<You are welcome. -Steven Pro> Saltwater Storage
I'm in the process of setting up a 125 gallon FOWLR system. I have been
doing a lot of reading about mixing salt water, but still have a
question. I'm using a 44 gallon garbage can with RO water, a power head,
and a heater to premix my water. I let the water in the garbage can heat
up to tank temperature, then add salt mix and stir with powerhead. My
question is, after I mix the salt water to the right salinity can I
store the container without the powerhead and heater?
<Without the
heater would be ok, but leave the powerhead to keep the water from
stagnating.>
and if so for how long?
<A week or so>
Thanks in
advance, Mike
<Please remember that you will have to reheat to the
appropriate temperature before use. -Steven Pro> Pre-mixing and
storing water
Hi Bob,
In your WaterChgFAQs
(http://www.wetwebmedia.com/waterchg.htm), you mentioned that you have a
detailed approach to pre-mixing and storing water at the
www.wetwebmedia.com site. I have been looking around on this site, but I
could not find it. Could you point me in the right direction?
Thank
you, Jim
PS: The search feature of www.wetwebmedia.com was not
working either. It returned a "Error from search: can't open the word
hash file
D:\wetwebmedia\web\_vti_txt\default.wti\All.dct" error.
<Jim, thanks for these notes... believe me, do appreciate them. Though
I'd much rather be sorting, identifying, scanning and placing my latest
photographic efforts from Australia (some fun now!) on the WWM site,
sending cover submissions off to mag. editors, the photo bank... Even
eating Lima beans... do know that there is much, too much amiss on the
site currently (and feverish need to add a few hundred already written
pieces on the industry, surveys of groups, adventure/dive travel), let
alone strategic trials at adding video, slide shows, chat rooms...
Be
all this whining as it is, did try to look/find the "detailed" pre-mix
instructions part (have in the CMA book, but where oh where on these
dastardly HD's?). Have keyed a run at this and placed here:
http://www.wetwebmedia.com/water4maruse.htm
along with spiffing up
spellings, appearance on related pieces... once again at your prompting.
Thanks again, you necessarily cruel taskmastah ;)
Bob Fenner>
Re: Water Changes
Bob, Thanks for the replies. I have visited
your site and printed off the details on alkalinity etc. Couple of
questions though:
When you say "store the water, aerate for a week"
do you mean actually aerate it for a week??
<Well, actually no...
but to keep the water in motion... if folks are only using a mechanical
aerator to mix their synthetic, yes... better to keep this pump/stone
running... Much better outgassing of sanitizer, complexing of ionic
metal, mixing of artificial salt components... and less likelihood of
capillary action/siphoning of water out of the container... Yes, mundane
to ridiculous considerations... but real. Better than a mechanical
aerator is/would be a small submersible pump, powerhead... that can be
easily rigged to help pump/move the new water into the main/display
system(s), and possibly contribute its/their waste heat to warming the
water...>
Most places I read say aerate it for a minimum of 6 hours.
Whilst I accept there is no "maximum" it seems an awful long time -what
are the benefits?
<Would you like more?>
I already use the Instant
Ocean salt mix - it seems I may have been over supplementing - another
local fish supplier recommendation due to the use of de-ionized water!
<I know of such suggestions... and disagree with them... if you drink,
cook with the water used, it is likely fine for aquarium use... If you
have doubts, concerns, have your source water tested (by a lab, the
water district...) and invest in a simple reverse osmosis unit...>
The last paragraph is a bit confusing - are you recommending the use of
a calcium reactor or adding buffers or both???
<Just the calcium
reactor... there are a few major "Beta/VHS" variations here... but (let
me whip out my crystal ball here) there is no doubt, NO DOUBT, that the
hobby will go the calcium reactor route in the near (next few years)
route... the supplement field as it exists now is absolute madness...>
Maybe this comes under - too much is definitely not better!!
Thanks
again, Scott
<Be chatting, my sentient friend. Bob Fenner>
Skittish fish
We have a 75 gallon reef maybe 2mo. old with a
smattering of fish: Chromis, damsels, firefish and a coral beauty. All
seems normal but when we do routine maintenance like water changes the
fish do a jitter dance in the corners like they are about to be eaten.
So my question is: could I put some mirror film on the outside of the
tank with the mirror facing the fish so they wont be disturbed? The tank
sits in the corner with minimal foot traffic, so what gives?
<Umm, if
I understand you here... the new water is likely not "ready to be used"
as you've prepared it (it's toxic in some way/s)... do read over the
"Seawater Use" section and FAQs posted on the www.WetWebMedia.com
site... you may need to get a R.O. device (for your cooking, drinking
use as well), and pre-mix and store your new/change water for a week or
so ahead of use... Don't use a reflective material on the outside of
your tank... this will cause your livestock harm, and won't look good to
you in any length. Bob Fenner> Quick question about "top off"
water
Hey Bob, just had a thought today...
You suggested that
I premix saltwater and store it for a week or so to get rid of the
"gunk" that comes in tap water. Does leaving tap water out in a
Rubbermaid container alone make it suitable for top off water too?
Or is there something in the mixing of salt that causes the impurities
to go away?
<More the latter... the sanitizer (chloramine, its
consequent manifestations, chlorine) do dissipate in "just freshwater"
from such preparation... many more benefits from pre-mixing and storing
seawater>
Do phosphates and chloramine and all that other stuff
disappear just by "sitting out" awhile?
<Not so much phosphates...
depending on what format (PO4 doesn't exist in a vacuum... attached and
more/less soluble, interactive with other matter depending on... how it
is attached/arranged molecularly), but other materials, ionic matter
yes. Bob Fenner>
Thanks. - Eugene Quick Water Question
Hello Bob,
Just wanted to clarify something I read in your newest
FAQ, and something in CMA.
<Okay>
I am now acquiring my equipment
for my new 1st saltwater tank (90 Gallon) and starting to plan for
initial startup.
If I buy a huge trash can, I can fill it with the my
salt and tap water, let it sit for a week, with aeration and temp
control, and all the bad "stuff"
will be eliminated. No need to get
RO water?
<Not as much...>
No need for water conditioners? (not
that I doubt you in the least bit) but just wanted to clarify,
reassurance.
<No need whatsoever>
Thanks again for a great
website, all my friends are sick of me talking about my new hobby. I
love it!!!!
<Me too. Bob Fenner>
Warmest Regards, Peter Frederixon
Saltwater storage limit?
Bob,
I have spent the better part of
the night browsing through the Wetwebmedia site. I have been maintaining
a 55 gallon saltwater tank for 10 years (okay, I did start completely
over after a move 6 years ago), and I am constantly amazed by my
ignorance.
<I for mine as well>
I am constantly procrastinating on
water changes because the water making process is kind of a pain for me.
I am busy with human children and other
pets... Anyway, I did
purchase a large Rubbermaid waste container on wheels and an extra sump
pump a while back to make this easier.
<Very good>
After reading
your opinions on making up the water, I am almost sold. The drawback--I
only need 5 gallons/month for my tank's water changes. Can I
make up
a whole bunch of saltwater (say 20-25 gallons), mix it for a week, use
what I need and store the rest (covered) with no circulation
indefinitely?
<Absolutely. No problem. Bob Fenner>
Thanks, Linda
Shelf life of saltwater
Bob,
We are purchasing a house about
45 minutes north of our current location and I will be moving my marine
tank. I am going to prepare saltwater in advance of the move (at the new
location) and was wondering how long mixed saltwater will stay 'good'?
<Many months>
Also, should I mix in some tank water a few days in
advance to establish some of the bacteria to the new water or is this a
waste of time?
<A worthwhile action>
(I will preserve as much
tank water as possible to avoid too stressful of a situation,
hopefully.) Your piece on WWM gave me some helpful information on the
process as well. Thanks.
<Good to hear/read. Be chatting. Bob Fenner>
Humbly, Mike Stewart Rubbermaid brute
Dear Bob:
My
LFS tells me that some of my reef tank problems might be because of the
plastic trash can that I am using for preparation and storage of my RO
salt water. I am using a Rubbermaid trash can, but it is not the "Brute"
model that I see you recommend. One of the RO manufacturers has told my
LFS that the storage container should be "food safe".
Do you know if
the Brute is "food safe" and is that one of the reasons why you
recommend it? Bob Pentecost
<As far as I am aware, all of
Rubbermaid's products are food safe. The Brute line definitely is... We
used them extensively for decades. Bob Fenner, who may send this note
along to RM.>
|
|
