Echinoids
Dear Bob,
<Royston>
Please let me introduce myself. My name is Royston Koh, an echinoids collector from Singapore. I recently surf your website at http://www.wetwebmedia.com/urchinsii.htm and found many pictures of echinoids.
<Yes... easy to photograph... Ha! Wish you could have been at the IMAC conference this past weekend in Chicago... one of the vendors sold only fossil crinoids!>
I wonder if you sell or trade echinoids test. I am interested in several echinoids species from your website. Please advise me.  
Looking forward to hear from you soon. Thank you very much.
Kind regards,
Royston
<Don't collect them per se... alive or already "clean", but do have some of the local (S. California) species. Bob Fenner>

Re: Echinoids
Dear Bob,
<Royston>
Thanks for your kind and fast reply.
I have collecting recent echinoids test for several years. I have over hundred of species in my collection and would like to trade/purchase for recent echinoids test (clean) from your area and others which you may have for spare.
<You know I should have mentioned my good friend Marty Beals of Tideline... have you bought from them before?>
I am interested from your website on the following species (bold color represent species with higher interest):
Asthenosoma varium
Chondrocidaris gigantea
Diadema paucispinum
Tripneustes ventricosus
Microcyphus rousseaui
Astropyga magnifica
Strongylocentrotus sanfriscanus
Diadema antillarum
Echinometra viridis
Lytechinus variegatus
Meoma ventricosa
Clypeaster subdepressus
Strongylocentrotus purpuratus
I collect mainly the test for collection and helping with my friend on the preparation of a book on sea urchin test. I appreciate very much for your help. I hope the specimens to have apical disc intact. If you have local species from your area which is not mentioned above, kindly inform me.
<Ahhh!>
I attached my Recent Echinoids Exchange List below:
Recent Echinoids with perfect Apical Disc intactOrderFamily Genus and species Author and yearCountryArbacioidaArbaciidaeArbacia incisa(A.Agassiz, 1872)MexicoArbacioidaArbaciidaeCoelopleurus maillardii(Michelin, 1862)TaiwanArbacioidaArbaciidaeCoelopleurus undulatusMortensen, 1934TaiwanDiadematoidaDiadematidaeDiadema setosum(Leske, 1778)IndonesiaDiadematoidaDiadematidaeCentrostephanus rodgersii(A. Agassiz, 1863)AustraliaEchinoidaEchinidaeEchinus esculentus(Linnaeus, 1758)EnglandEchinoidaParechinidaeParacentrotus lividus (Lamarck, 1816)Adriatic SeaEchinoidaParechinidaePsammechinus miliaris (Muller, 1771)FranceEchinoidaEchinometridaeAnthocidaris crassispina(A.Agassiz, 1863)JapanEchinoidaEchinometridaeEchinometra mathaei(Blainville, 1825)Philippines and MauritiusEchinoidaEchinometridaeHeliocidaris erythrogramma(Valenciennes, 1846)AustraliaEchinoidaEchinometridaeHeterocentrotus mammillatus (Linnaeus, 1758)PhilippinesEchinoidaEchinometridaeHeterocentrotus trigonarius(Lamarck,
1816)MauritiusEchinoidaToxopneustidaePseudoboletia indiana(Michelin, 1862)AustraliaEchinoidaToxopneustidaeToxopneustes pileolus (Lamarck, 1816)ThailandEchinoidaToxopneustidaeTripneustes gratilla(Linnaeus, 1758)Thailand TemnopleuroidaTemnopleuridaeAmblypneustes pachistusH.L.Clark, 1912AustraliaTemnopleuroidaTemnopleuridaeAmblypneustes pallidus(Lamarck, 1816)AustraliaTemnopleuroidaTemnopleuridaeHolopneustes porosissimusL. Agassiz, 1846AustraliaTemnopleuroidaTemnopleuridaeSalmacis virgulata(L. Agassiz, 1846)ThailandTemnopleuroidaTemnopleuridaeTemnopleurus toreumaticus (Leske, 1778)SingaporeSpatangoidaBrissidaeBrissus (Allobrissus) agassiziiDoderlein, 1885AustraliaSpatangoidaBrissidaeMetalia angustus De Ridder, 1884AustraliaSpatangoidaLoveniidaeBreynia desoriiGray, 1851AustraliaSpatangoidaLoveniidaeEchinocardium cordatum(Pennant, 1777)FranceSpatangoidaLoveniidaeLovenia elongataGray, 1845SingaporeSpatangoidaSpatangidaeMaretia planulata(Lamarck,
1816)SingaporeSpatangoidaLoveniidaeEchinocardium mediterraneum Forbes, 1844ItalyClypeasteroidaArachnoididaeArachnoides placenta(Linnaeus, 1758)SingaporeClypeasteroidaFibulariidaeMortonia australis(Desmoulins, 1835)Northern Mariana IslandsClypeasteroidaFibulariidaeEchinocyamus pusillus(O.Fr. Muller, 1776)Tirrenian SeaClypeasteroidaFibulariidaeFibularia (Fibulariella) acuta(Yoshiwara, 1898)SingaporeClypeasteroidaLaganidaeLaganum retinens KoehlerSingaporeClypeasteroidaLaganidaeLaganum laganum(Leske, 1778)Philippines
Please let me know if we can exchange recent echinoids test. Thank you very much.
Kind regards,
Royston
<I am sending your note along to Marty and some other friends that may be able to trade with you. Good luck. Bob Fenner>

Recent Echinoids
Dear Bob,
Thanks for your reply. I do not know Marty Beals of Tideline. It will be nice to know them.  Are they shells dealer from California who took over the business from the late Mr. Bob Foster?
<No... Marty (and former partner Dennis Mok) are owners/operators of Tideline (in Los Angeles), selling general and specimen shells and related artifacts>
Regarding my exchange list of recent echinoids, appreciate if you can send to your friends who have interest in recent echinoids.
<Have done so>
I look forward to hear from you and your friends. If you obtain South California's recent echinoids from your dive, perhaps you can offer them to me. I can either purchase or trade depending on your preference. I can also use sea shells to trade for your urchins too if you are interested in shells.
<Great>
Beside the regular urchin and sand dollars, there are many heart urchin (Spatangoids) which I need from South California. Example: Spatangus californicus, Lovenia cordiformis, Brisaster townsendi, etc.. I really hope you and your friends can help because I need many good specimens for the preparation of the urchin book.
<Will email them again>
Thank you very much.
Kind regards,
Royston
<Bob Fenner>

Sand Dollars (3/28/04)
Hi, <Hi. Steve Allen tonight>
I live in Jacksonville, Fl. and picked up (2) live sand dollars at the ocean. <Bad idea. Can you put them back?> I was wondering if these would be okay in a 55 gal. aquarium. <No. Even with a deep, live sand bed, it is virtually impossible to keep sand dollars alive in an aquarium. The odds that they will die in your system are over 99.9%.> Thanks, Dwight <Please put them back if you're close to the ocean.>

Urchins and Mantis Shrimp in LR (3/5/04)
Hello guys <Steve Allen tonight>
Hey thanks for all the help I need it! <We all do.> My son just stopped by to see my new reef tank and told me that I need to rid myself of all the black urchins in my tank. <Did he say why?> They came in with my live rock. Are they a problem in a reef tank? <What sort of "black urchin" are you referring to? Diadema species? Read here about urchins: http://www.wetwebmedia.com/urchins.htm The biggest problems are their venom, their occasional knocking over of live rock, and the possibility that they might eat all of your coralline algae. Read the articles and the FAQs and you ought to be able to decide what you want to do.> Please tell me what's so bad about Mantis Shrimp I guess I have a lot of them too! <Have you seen them? Here's a starting point where you can learn all about the problems people have with these aggressive, voracious predators: http://www.wetwebmedia.com/marine/inverts/arthropoda/stomatopods/mantisshrimp.htm >
Thanks Kirt <Hope this helps>

Long spined sea urchin... excellent algae grazers 2/11/04
I just bought a long spined sea urchin a couple of days ago.  I was told at the pet shop that they eat algae off the glass of the aquarium and fine particles in the sand.  
<they were exactly correct>
Now I have been reading on the internet that it was in the past common practice for divers to kill sea urchins because of the negative effect they have on the reefs.  
<not exactly... urchins are direly needed for reef health (as evidenced by the struggles of the Caribbean and other reefs without them). The only reference I can think of is in reference to the stupid practice of fisheries (for kelp) killing them. But that was for $/commerce... not reef health>
I have a small amount of live rock in my 75 gallon aquarium (about 15lbs) Would I be wasting my time getting anymore?  
<few are needed. Stick with what you have likely>
I have been getting live rock a little at a time when I see neat pieces.  My last question is, will starfish destroy a reef tank too?
<depends on the starfish... brittle and serpent stars are safe... most others are not. Read more about them here on our website and in our new book "Reef Invertebrates" by Calfo and Fenner. Anthony>

Urchin saves the day - eating Dictyota 2/2/04
Hello again Anthony,
I wanted to give you an update about our Dictyota problem. Our urchin is now eating it. :)
<outstanding to hear. I do love those urchins>
We could not be more happy to see the right upper half of the tank free from this plague. Slowly the little urchin is going to town on it. Mark took a picture of the urchin to the SeaBay meeting but he never got the chance to show it to you.
<Awww... no worries. DO send it here if you like>
We are now sure it must be a long spined urchin. I hope he keeps up eating the Dictyota. If it eats all of micro algae will it be happy to eat any coralline algae? We don't want it to starve.
<hmmm... tough to say. If so, I don't think it will survive on it. Fortunately, they will scavenge food bits. Offer an algae based frozen food and likely it will be fine (2-3 times weekly) after the nuisance algae is gone>
Sincerely, Clair & Mark Dawson
<best regards, my friends. Anthony>

Urchins chewing through power heads - 1/28/03
I have a sea urchin emergency and hope that you might be able to offer advice...
<I will do my best. Sorry for the delay>  
I bought a new, large protein skimmer for my tank.  <Always a good thing> 
Today, I looked in the tank and the urchins were motionless and the skimmer was off.<Uh oh> 
It turns out that they have chewed through the electrical wire. <Does happen> It seems obvious now, but it never occurred to me that they might do this! <Easy thing to forget. No worries, does happen sometimes>  
The urchins have obviously been traumatized but are alive. 
<OK. Here is what I suggest: Pull the powerhead (probably already did and be sure to unplug it before putting hands in the tank) remove the urchins (if you can to a rock or more observable area of the tank), do a water change of about 30% would be fine. (there will not be enough copper released from the wire, in my experience, to warrant a full 100% water change. As soon as you see the spines sort of droop (the stage right before falling off) then remove the animal as there is no coming back at that point. Once you see the spines begin to "lay down" for lack of a better word, there is rarely recovery. This is very different from the occasional drop or break of a spine. This will be all or most of the spines doing this all at one time.> Is it more urgent to: 1) leave them in peace to see whether they can make it; <More or less> or 2) change all of the water immediately in case they were exposed to copper from the wires? <about 30% would suffice, in my opinion>
 I immediately changed all of the filter media, then it occurred to me that the copper might actually be more of a problem than the initial shock (since everything automatically turned off right away). <Likely, with the exception the copper is not as soluble as one might think. In liquid form it is deadly, but there is very little residual coming off a solid wire with exposure if only for a day or two.> Do you have any suggestions to help save my urchins? <Hopefully those above will help> I accept that I am an idiot and perhaps should be banned from purchasing salt water inverts ever again...<No way. Never talk like that. It happens and some things cannot always be foreseen. Don't be so hard on yourself. Many more mistakes to come your way. That is why this hobby (heck, most hobbies) have such a science to them. More I learn, the less I seem to know for sure. Good luck. ~Paul>

Shocking urchin emergency
I just sent an e-mail about my urchin emergency (they tried to eat through the electrical cord on the protein skimmer).  May I humbly suggest that you might want to list this potential hazard in the next edition of Reef Invertebrates?  Yes, it should be obvious - but perhaps someone else might be spared the same accident.
Thanks for any suggestions you may have - I understand if you have none.
<Yeeikes! And they (Urchins) have the ability to chew through most anything... I would either lift the chewed part of the wiring entirely out of the water, inspect it and seal it (see an electrical shop re) AND arrange the wiring such that the urchin/s can't get to it, either out of the water with the heads up near the surface or protected by solid rock work. Bob Fenner>

Urchin Compatibility (1-13-03)
I was wondering if I could add a few little sea urchins in to my tank with an emperor angel, orchid Dottyback, a green chromis,3 cleaner shrimp and a chocolate chip starfish?  are all these compatible?<You should be ok, but I would probably only add one depending on the size of your tank.  You can read more on these guys at our website www.wetwebmedia.com.  Cody>

Sea Urchins Or? 1/12/04
Greetings Most Informative Wet Web Crew,
<Greetings Flo!>
I've asked you a couple of questions the 2 years I've been in the hobby and gotten some excellent advice mostly through reading the information on the site and books you recommend- so thanks and kudos to all of you.
<Glad to hear you have benefited, and I hope to build on that tradition.>
I have a question about some critters in my 40 gallon tank.  I have no fish in there, just many small feather dusters, a few hermit crabs, and 1 snail. The tank has an overflow, sump, and skimmer.  I feed the tank once per day just a bit of marine flake food.  Because there is nothing in it, I haven't scrubbed the algae off the acrylic tank for weeks and it has only a hard green algae on the sides.  I do change 5 gallons of water every week or so.
<Wow!  Such patience.  I am already thinking ahead that you must have an amazing variety of critters enjoying a predator free environment!>
In addition to this, there are about a million- maybe an exaggeration (probably more like hundreds or thousands) of little white colored things in my tank.  They seem to be all over the acrylic and the live rock.  I may have put some new live rock in the tank about 3-4 months ago and if I did it would have been a small piece (can't remember as I was prepping my new 100 gallon and mixed around some things).  I have about 45 lbs of live rock that has been in the tank over a year.  
They are not brittle stars, I believe, as brittle stars have a central disk with arms coming out just on the sides.  They are not copepods as copepods can move quickly and look like little bugs.  They have a round central part that is about the size of a pinhead.  They are all approximately the same size.  They seem to congregate on the areas where there is green algae stuck on the acrylic and rocks.  They have for lack of a better word "arms"
looking like small thin straight but still mildly flexible threads coming out of their sides, top, and back, but not on the bottom which is the part stuck on the rock or acrylic.  They are too small to see much detail, but do not swim, and seem to move so slowly it is hard to tell they move from one place to another.  
<There are a range of possibilities, but I would lean toward some kind of forameniferan.>
As I have virtually nothing in the tank, I'll see what they turn into.  I was going to stock the tank, but now will wait.  I am curious as to what they could be, how big they could get, how to care for them, and what to feed them.  I've tried looking for pictures or descriptions that sound like them, and the closest thing I see are sea urchins.  
<Baby sea urchins are a possibility.  You could have imported some spawn material (Our own Anthony Calfo imported Cassiopeia larvae into his greenhouse).  I too would be curious what they will grow out into, so please do let us know!>
They resemble small white sea urchins.  Is this possible?  I want to get a picture but they are so small it doesn't provide a good representation of them and the algae on the tank makes it hard to get a picture.  Thanks, Flo
<Sorry not to have a better idea of what you have.  Please don't be too surprised or disappointed if they just start disappearing.  Many tiny critters wax and wane and come and go in our systems.  Best regards and enjoy to amazing diversity of life that we have the benefit of keeping in our tanks!  Adam>

- Urchin in the House -
Thanks for the reply. <My pleasure.> With respect to your sea urchin recommendation.  Are there any issues with having an urchin in my tank with my livestock??
black brittle star
cb shrimp & cleaner shrimp
two gobies
two clown fish
Fire Goby
hermits and snails??? <Should do fine with all these.>
Don't the urchins get big? <Some do, but usually very slowly. The one I recommended is short spined and not very large.> I've heard of them knocking over liverock, etc...? <Not to worry, the Tuxedo urchins are a fairly tame bunch. Cheers, J -- >

Doing the Fluoro Salsa.. or Was It a Rumba?
>Good afternoon! For Bob Fenner and other marvelous WWM FAQ crew.
>>Good day to yourself as well.  How goes it?
>Recently, my full-spectrum (daylight) fluorescent tube had been out-aged and cannot be used for more. After that, I ask my assistant to buy a daylight tube (I know this is seems to be not wise, because handling an knowledgeable task without supervising can make a wrong choice and creates one more problem) but I haven't much choice, I'm too busy for my stacking homework.
>>Understood.
>So, when he go home and I see what type of lighting he bought, I see it's a little bit different from the previous one. The light wasn't white-colored, but rather violet hued and seems not too strong to support autotrophic organisms in my aquarium. For example, my two Tridacna derasa clam (sorry -- it's not Tridacna maxima, I realized the species shortly after
sending you the email) still exposes their broad mantles, but I'm not sure if the zooxanthellae can tolerate another type of lighting.
>>I like T. derasa myself, my friend.
>Do you know the type of lighting and is it good for my clams?
>>I'm afraid not, my friend.  What you would need is to look for the manufacturer's specifications on the bulb.  I am guessing that you may have what is called a "warm white" bulb, in which case it will be too high in the red end of the spectrum.  You should be better getting a "cool white" bulb, or better yet, possibly calling the shop where your assistant bought the bulb, tell them what you HAD, and ask if they have that same bulb.
>And also for my intertidal urchin, Colobocentrus atratus who seems to love the atmosphere and always tries to creeps out of water. I'm afraid if they will develop air bubbles in
their test cavity, and slowly dies.
>>No, I doubt they would harm themselves in that way.
>Should I constantly replace the urchin back to water or just leave it alone?
>>As long as it cannot escape from the display completely (and get lost?), leave it alone.  They know where the water is (DOWN!), and will go back when they feel the need.
>Thank you very much for previous helpful emails !!  Sincerely, Anargha.
>>Alas, I, Marina, cannot take credit for those, but will offer that you are welcome all the same.  Marina

Purple Sea Urchin
Hi!
My LFS has a "purple sea urchin." How can I tell if it's the California type
that won't survive in my unchilled system?
<Good guest ion... I would first just ask them... likely they know, or the species name may have been listed on their invoice from the supplier (Strongylocentrotus purpuratus and S. sanfriscanus are coldwater Californians... Otherwise, as far as I'm aware there are no purplish tropical species (though some Diadema look very dark/purplish).>
Also, I understand it likes
Caulerpa (have a lot) but  how does it interact with a Trachyphyllia or
Yellow Tang. There is a warning in Mr. Fenner's book about the latter.
Thanks,
David A. Bidwell
(Big fan)
<No positive interaction... but possible troubles with urchins cruising into a Trachyphyllia coral. Bob Fenner>

Urchin question, stocking too....
Hello!
<hi>
Once again I've come for advice on my tank....the first question is about a tuxedo urchin. I have a 55g tank that has been running for 3 years. Coralline algae covers the back glass, both ends, powerheads, intake tubes and about 75% of the LR (there is maybe 50 to 60 lbs of rock in the tank). Do you think that one tuxedo urchin will deplete the coralline?
< no one will do fine you can place Nori in and they will feed on that > I would really like to have an urchin, but at the same time, I like the looks of the coralline algae too....will they also eat other algae? I also have on several of the rocks, an encrusting algae that looks like crushed velvet, a deep magenta color, that I would hate to lose too....(BTW, this is not slime algae, I have never been able to ID what exactly it is, but it is extremely slow growing and does not require much light, very low flow too Next is a stocking question. Same 55g tank, 50 to 60 lbs of rock, DSB....in
this tank is a yellow tang (she is about 5 1/2 long, I've had her for almost 3 years and I don't think she will get any bigger), a ocellaris clown, a black Dartfish and an orange tailed damsel. There is also a pair of skunk cleaners, several large featherdusters, numerous small ones, some mushroom corals and two colonies of Porites. Is there any fish at all that I could possibly add that would be able to stand up to the damsel (my biggest worry) and would not eat any of the inverts? Bannerfish, another damsel, anything? Or am I (as I suspect) unable to add anything at this point???
<you could try a Genicanthus angel there are about a dozen kinds they are totally under rated you will love these fish make sure they are healthy and eating before purchase. Thanks Mike H>
Thanks for your help!!
Best regards,
Sam

What urchin is this? 10/8/03
Dear Bob,
<Anthony Calfo in his stead>
I hope you are very fine,  I received your excellent book Reef Invertebrates last week.  Thank you so much for it, it is an aquarists best friend and destined to be a classic I am sure.
<kind thanks for the strong endorsement... glad it serves you well>
I popped over to my LFS to buy some new Fluorescent tubes and saw some urchins there. I am having a bit of an Hair Algae problem (phosphates are slightly high) so I figured lets get my self one of these critters and see what it does.
<not a bad idea at all... some key urchin species are grossly under-rated in our trade/hobby for this purpose>
So I picked one up, so far it has not touched any of the hair algae, but did have a soft spot for my purple coralline algae, the little that I had.  Any way I am trying to identify this critter, I know its from Indonesia and it looks very much like a Mespilia globulus, but I cannot see any blue on it, it also has this habit of carrying a lot of macro algae on its back like a decorator urchin.  Its round and has orange and black short spines with white tubular feet.  I do not have a digital camera so I cannot send in a photo. Do you think this guy could seriously add to slide in water quality?
<no harm at all... but do consider a Diadema species (long-spines) instead for algae control. They are incomparable>
I have a Majestic Angel in this tank that I certainly would not like to get uncomfortable.  The angel has been with me for a month (she was 2.5 inches when I got her, seems 1/2 inch larger now) She feeds well leaves the corrals alone and eats everything I give her.  The tank is only 50 gal much too small for the Angel but its her temporary home, I will put her into a large aquarium at the end of this year. Kind Regards, Jorell
<no worries... the urchin is likely harmless, and just not the most helpful species available. Small pacific Diadema species are commonly available... do consider. Anthony>

What urchin is this? II 10/8/03
Hi Anthony, Thanks very much for your prompt reply.  I will take your advice, I just got your book out and found a Diadema on page 333.  I have not seen these guys here in Hong Kong, I will look harder.
<Ah, yes... no worries. Diadema setosum and D. savignyi are very common in the trade/hobby. You should easily be able to get these from an Indonesian supplier>
I think I will get rid on the existing one as it is feeding on my coralline algae, it looks very pretty though, but I bought it for a reason that it does not fulfill.  By the way, taking a look at it again the feet are half black with the ends white.
Could this guy be poisonous (i.e. could it be a Tripneustes gratilla species?)  
<I cannot say from the text description, my friend>
how I wish I had a camera...,
<do browse the Internet until then for pics and a species ID>
he's now all over the glass, the guy is black with orange spines, he has a few white spines but only around this mouth, his feet are black with white ends about a third of the length of the feet.
Sorry to be bothering you.  
<no bother at all... shared admiration>
I work from home and the tank is right besides me, cant resist.  Hope you understand and sorry again. Regards, Jorell
<kind regards, Anthony>