Infections in the skin from coral (dangers of SW sys. keeping)  11/8/2009 Hello, <Hi there> I know these may simply be too gross to post, but if they can prevent someone from undergoing what I've gone through, not once, but twice now, I'd sure like to contribute them. <I thank you for this. You will have saved many others great trouble> My name is Renee, and I am a coral enthusiast and like most of us, I heard some things about coral being poisonous, and how not to take much of it to heart, that it's just over-stated to make us afraid, and - well, let me just say that I am now much more cautious due to a couple things that happened to me while reef-keeping, with varying degrees of poisoning and illness. #1: Longhorn Cowfish poisoning. It's not Tetratoxin, but it's called Ostracitoxin. <Yes... is an Ostraciid species (a boxfish), not a "true" puffer (family Tetraodontidae)> My fish was in a 10 gallon hospital tank. She had Ich, and passed on and when she did, I noticed a slight foamy look to the water, so I slid it to the sink to dump it, and as I did, the tank slipped, cut my finger on the plastic liner to the bone and the water went inside of this open wound while I poured it into the sink. I was completely unaware that they carry toxin, as my pet store had told me that they were 100% safe to keep in a reef. <Mmm, not so> He even said people over-react about the puffers being poison and laughed it off when I had originally inquired. I called the poison control center, and they told me that it could make me ill, to be careful for 4 to 6 hours and if I showed any illness signs, to call them back. About 8 hours later, (way after poison control's time period), I began heavily salivating to the point it was hard to swallow it. Mucous got thick in my throat and I felt really dizzy. I vomited, and it passed, and if it had not subsided, I'd have called 911. I forced water and fluids for 24 hours and was fine. Additionally: Poison control told me that a curator for the Shedd Aquarium once poked himself with a dead blowfish spike (which was the only case he could find like mine) and had a minor reaction. <Reactions vary... akin to proteinaceous stings of social insects> I thought I'd note that when I told the local store owner I had purchased the fish from about the incident, he did not believe me. <Reflex defensive mechanism> #2: Foxface Rabbitfish : Ouch. I had him over a year. I took him out of a fish trap he had accidentally gotten into and as I did, his fins went between my thumb and forefinger, lightly brushing as he went into the tank. Mind you, he did not poke my skin. He brushed it. IT BURNS. It stung like an amplified bee-sting. My hand swelled...and I put it under water, cleaned it and it wasn't bothering me an hour later, although I hear they can truly poison you if they poke the skin...I am thankful that mine was just a brush of fins and that I was not poked by one. #3: The infections: Coral can bring with it some of the worst bacteria known to man. Here is one small video and a few small photos of varying infections caught after handling coral at my home. The nose images may seem hard to believe, and the video of it, 2 weeks later (still huge, but going down), as it heals is still hard to believe. Note: The nose.jpg photo is after the initial abscess was removed, after the treatment was given and antibiotics administered, 6 days into the infection. I had become very ill, and at one point, I had begun getting weak and dizzy from the infection. 10dayslater.jpg is 10 days after initial onset of infection. The video is about 2 weeks later...and you can see how it has permanently damaged my noise now. I have a dent, a little hole and a permanent tear in the nostril. I had gone to my friend Josh's house, sat on his sofa, handled 3 containers of frags I got from him, itched my nose and by the time it took me to drive 100 miles home, it had already begun itching severely. Within 24 hours, it was a whopping 2.5" across and was unable to see past my nose. <Yeeikes!> You cannot imagine the pain from this. Just think how it feels when you get a blemish on/in the nose, let alone one that goes completely through from the top to the inside. The neck images (2, one prior to removal of abscess, one after): The neck became infected when I handled coral and then scratched a blemish lightly, after a hand wash. The physicians said I had not cleaned under my nails thoroughly enough, and the bacteria (which I have never had identified) had entered that way. Within 8 hours of touching my tank, it was already swollen and inflamed. Within 5 days, it abscessed into a huge abscess, which subsequently was excised. The remaining hole is what is in the second image, and I am permanently scarred from this as well. My point in sending this to you is to help prevent readers from undergoing these same infections. Cautions I now take: 1. Wear gloves. 2. Wash hands under hot soapy water when finished, being very sure to scrub under the nails. 3. Read anything you can on fish before you handle them and check to find out if they carry toxin. I had no clue my Foxfish was poisonous till I was brushed by his fins. Just be careful. We love our reefs, and fish and tanks, but the truth is, they can be a dangerous place to play in and unless we use some caution, know what we are fishing around in and are aware of potential dangers, then we are blindly walking in an attack zone. Use caution please. Renee <Again, many thanks for your sharing/caring. Bob Fenner>

Re: Infections in the skin from coral 11/8/2009 You are welcome, Bob. You are also more than welcome to use the images or film to help people and to give them a healthy caution of the dangers lurking in their tanks. <Thank you Renee> I found that in my local shops, there is a generalized dis-belief about the dangers of reef-keeping. <Yes... and though there is a bit of risk, I have optioned to post my more dire (though not alarmist in my value system) warnings on WWM, in articles, books> 3 local stores are still selling customers cow-fish, and right in front of me, one week after I had been poisoned, just after I told him the story, the owner told a customer to go ahead and buy the cowfish, that I had been misguided and probably had the flu. Renee <!? Bizarre. BobF>

Palytoxin... Zoanthid issue... have you? Jeff wants to know! 6/27/2009
Thanks for posting my question. I would like to post a follow up to those who responded. Did anyone see an ophthalmologist? If so, what were the findings? Specifically, did anyone have an immunologic ring infiltrate, diffuse lamellar keratitis (Sands of Sahara), or decreased cornea sensation? Also, did anyone with problems dose vodka or another carbohydrate source? Palytoxin has a backbone containing 115 contiguous carbon atoms. I am curious if carbohydrate dosing might facilitate palytoxin production.
Thanks
Jeff
<Will post, share, accumulate. BobF>

Possible palytoxin eye injury... Have you or someone you know had eye issues related to handling Cnidarians? Jeff is looking for your input   6/13/09
I am working up a case of corneal damage that occurred during removal of a colony of Acanthastrea lordhoweensis from a portion of rock also covered with a Palyzoa species. Some of the features of the injury, the inflammatory response, and the course of wound healing are concerning for toxic injury. There is very little information in the medical literature on this topic other than a single very brief case report and an animal
study from 1974, prior to the characterization of palytoxin. I would be interested if this has been encountered previously in hobbyists and also if there is an expert in Palythoa and coral toxins in general that might be worth contacting.
Thanks,
Jeff Jacobsen
<I only know of anecdotal accounts... but am willing to post your request for others input... Would you like to use/have this email address posted?
Bob Fenner>
Thanks for the response. This email address is fine.
Jeff Jacobsen  <Jeffrey.Jacobsen@hsc.utah.edu>
Will post then. BobF.

Palytoxin-like compounds and Marine Aerosols... Zoanthid sel., human hlth. f's
I am writing you today, as I came across the question below on your website. My family has experienced a similar situation, and I would like to share it with you, along with a recent article I found dated March 13, 2009 that directly ties Palytoxin-like compounds to marine aerosols.
<Thank you for this>
"Human Lung Disease? 11/26/07
Dear Dr. Fenner,
<Just Bob please... I have no doctorate>
Friday I spent several hours cleaning my sump, pumps, heaters etc. Most of this time was spent hunched over the garage sink with a lot of water vapor rising up into my face. That evening, my lungs felt inflamed. The next day (yesterday) a cough developed and then a high fever followed with all of the usual aches and pains associated. The reason I am writing is because there seems to be a very clear correlation between the cleaning of the sump and the rapid onset of this illness. I read the article posted on your site regarding aquariums and human health, and most of it seemed related to skin infections. Do you know of diseases of the lungs caused by the inhalation of bacteria commonly found in substrate? If so, I would greatly appreciate any references.
Best wishes to you all,
Brad in Basalt
<I do not... but do encourage you to seek out medical attention if you are concerned... I wish you good health. Bob Fenner>"
Cellular Physiology and Biochemistry
http://www.online.karger.com/ProdukteDB/produkte.asp?Aktion=ShowPDF&ArtikelN
r=218190&Ausgabe=249208&ProduktNr=224332&filename=218190.pdf
Production of Functionally Active Palytoxin-like Compounds by Mediterranean Ostreopsis cf. siamensis
Palytoxin is one of the largest and highly potent marine toxins first isolated from Zoanthids of the genus Palythoa. It has been also found in sea anemones, Polychaete worms, crabs and herbivorous fishes. However, algae from the genus Ostreopsis have been proposed as the possible biogenetic origin of this toxin as well as some potent analogues, e.g. ostreocin-D.
Palytoxin-like compounds also cause human sufferings because of exposure to the marine aerosols, with symptoms that include fever associated to serious respiratory disturbs, such as bronchoconstriction, mild dyspnea, wheezes, and in some cases conjunctivitis.
Here is our story:
Palytoxin Poisoning from Palythoa Polyps
Dave and I want to share a bizarre experience we have encountered, should you know of anyone who owns a salt water fishtank, and finds themselves getting sick from the water.
Dave recently purchased a 75 gal aquarium and then found a guy on Craigslist who was selling everything in his tank, as his doctor told him he was allergic to his fishtank. Every time the guy stuck his hand in the water he would get sick.
This sounded "odd", but we went ahead and purchased about 90 pounds of live rock, various sea anemones, etc. We really didn't know what the entire package included, but believed it was safe enough to transfer to our tank without gloves.
That night Dave , Kent and I all became dreadfully ill for 4 days. Dave had a fever for 3 days that peaked at 103.5. All of us had muscle aches, stomach cramps, difficulty breathing, coughing, diarrhea, nausea and headaches. Only Dave had the fever.
We recovered, only finding our family repeating this cycle every time Dave stuck his hand or arm in the tank, (to clean or move things around). After Dave's 5th fever of 101.7 he went to the doctor and they ruled out Swine Flu, but we had him tested for Salmonella Paratyphis B and Vibrio, both rare aquarium diseases that can both be quite dangerous.
We contacted the owners of Saltwater City in Bellevue , one of which is a Marine Biologist, and the other, "Andy" a microbiologist and research scientist. He believed we must have poisonous Palythoa Polyps growing in our tank. (They look like purple flowers.) This turned out to be exactly the problem. We called the previous owner and asked him what his "allergy symptoms" were, and they were identical to ours. Our family would get these symptoms just by BREATHING the fumes from the tank. We have since removed these deadly polyps, and are in the process of de-toxifying our aquarium.
Andy, from Salt Water City had a case of this only one other time. Every time the guy stuck his bare arm in the tank, he would get sick with a fever. He removed his Palys and recovered. Also, we did find out that the previous owner who sold us this live rock package had the exact same symptoms as us! Every time he stuck his hands in the water, he would get sick with a fever.
He has since recovered.
Trev Dakan, the owner and Marine Biologist of Salt Water City claimed that a couple times in his life, when we was cleaning out a "bad tank" he would get very ill with a fever. He just thought he caught the flu.
We have recently removed 4 LARGE clusters of Palythoa Polyps, and we also are removing all the sand in our tank, slowly, in sections to go bare bottom. The sand is in a bucket in our garage. If you were to stick your head in the bucket and breath in, you WILL find yourself coughing.
We have been to the Dr. My husband became the most sick, as his immune system has been compromised prior to all of this due to a sinus surgery.
Anyway, they did a chest X-ray, tested for every kind of bacterial infection, and read the above article linking Palytoxin-like compounds to marine aerosols. They believe this is the cause of our problem. (They did find Dave's white blood cells to be high. The microbiologist said this is common with Palytoxin exposure)
We are currently cycling "Chemipure" thru out tank for two months to try to purify the tank. We understand we may have to "gut" the whole thing and sterilize it, but the experts we have talked to think we can save everything by trying this method. Currently we have not had any reactions around the tank, but we do use gloves up to our armpits before entering the tank.
If you have any thoughts you would like to share, we are more than happy to listen.
Thank you for your time!
Sincerely,
Amy and David Fulton
Monroe, WA
<Again, thank you for sharing... You may well have saved several others from very dire Zoanthid health issues. Bob Fenner>

Human injury from marines 11/29/04
HELP!
I was pulling macro algae from my refugiums this morning and something toxic or poisonous splashed or squirted into my right eye and has caused severe burning and dizziness for past 3 hours... I am going to the hospital soon but was wondering if anyone might know a bit more about poisonous or toxic plants... or sea anemones.  
<many possibilities here... but cnidarians (coral or anemone.. especially Zoanthids) are the likely dangerous candidates>
I have Grape, Fern Caulerpa, Halimeda  and Chaetomorpha as macros and they're may be a tiny anemones in there as well.. could it have been an anemone or fluid from one of these macros?
<Caulerpa is actually rather toxic>
It's something so nasty I have been in severe pain for several hours and my nose is running constantly with headache and nausea. I will see a doctor but he will need to know more about what may have caused this. Any help would be great. Thanks, Chris
<get thee to a hospital ASAP, my friend! With a list of species in your tank. Anthony>

Advice to ALL re dangers of pet-fishing
Hi crew, <How goes it, M. Maddox here, tired of answering "how do I get rid of algae" questions, this one looked like a nice reprieve ;)>
I just want to give advice to all reef keepers.  It should go without saying, but it is easy to be lax on this.  After putting your hands in your  reef tank, SCRUB them clean immediately.  I added 2 corals and re-arranged  some others, and failed to wash my hands after. I now have Allergic Conjuctivitis in both my eyes, and it really sucks.  <Ouch, get well soon. I sound bit of advice>
I imagine one of you is laughing, but it is an overlooked  "procedure". <Not at all, good practice.  Also, avoid ingesting\absorbing toxins from Zoanthids\palythoas, all of you!>
Tearing, blood shot, and miserable,
James <Hope you feel better soon.  M. Maddox>

Medusa Sting in Mexico
Hello,
My 80 year old father was stung 2 days ago in Santiago, Mexico. The Jellyfish was described as "small, stringy and black with 'legs'". A doctor in town said "medusa", gave my father an antidote shot as well as a shot for the pain. He sent him home with prescription to take for 2 days that was something like an antihistamine and some pills for pain. As soon as shot wore off, Dad had an all- nighter in pain which only hot packs would relieve. He now feels fine.  Can you tell me the likely identity of this jellyfish, the antidote and whether there is any remaining threat to my Dad's health. He was stung in the ankle.
Much Thanks,
JM
<Cannot tell either... but am surprised at the availability of an "antidote"... antihistamines, analgesics are standard treatment for such stings... with more treatment for shock in some folks. Some Medusoids are very dangerous indeed. Bob Fenner>

Torch Coral Sting 4/28/05
Hi, During routine cleaning, I accidentally touched my torch coral several times with my left hand. I have been experiencing numbness in the hand since then. I understand that this coral has moderately potent stinging capability. Are my symptoms normal? I have no redness or swelling, and no pain. Thank you, Matthew W. Stone R.T.(R) Cardiac Cath Lab Lead Tech 
<Some folks can be quite sensitive to coral stings. Symptoms typically range from minor irritation to redness and welts. Severe sensitivities and allergies are rare but do occur. Since you work in a hospital, I would suggest that you ask some of the physicians (especially ER) for any suggestions. In the future, I would suggest that you wear gloves when working in the tank if you have symptoms of more serious allergic reactions, seek formal medical advice. 
Best Regards. AdamC, CCP Perfusionist.>
 

Palytoxin poisoning? 8.15.05
I've got a very important question here.
This morning 11 AM, I changed 30% of water in my 15 gallon reef tank. I also rearranged the live rocks.
But I forgot that I have a wound on my finger. But it was already dry, a scab. I have a Zoanthid colony (cats eye polyp) in my tank and I also moved it with my hands and been in contact with it for about 5 minutes, also removing some of the polyps that had been detached from the colony. I worked in the tank for about 20 minutes so the dry wound became soft again because of being soaked by the sea water.
And only about 10 min.s ago I was reading about the palytoxins that Zoanthid have. I'm really very concerned about this. Have I been poisoned?
I'm not really feeling anything unusual up to now and its been 12 hrs since I've had contact with the polyps. Please advise. I'm really scared.
<no worries my friend... as someone who has been poisoned... sigh (my stupidity), no less than three times, I can assure you that you'd know it by now. The sensation is almost instantaneous... starting with a metallic taste in the mouth. in severe cases/reactions, you will have difficulty breathing. A search of the big message boards will reveal other such stories.>
I didn't know about the potential dangers of Zoanthids.
I did some research about their care but haven't read about their toxicity.
<Some species are fatally toxic. But you'd be amazed how many other organisms in your tank are also quite noxious to taste, touch, etc: sponges, tunicates, many snails, etc. The lesson here is to please(!) wear latex gloves - for your safety and for your corals safe(r) keeping. Anthony>

Re: Maroon Clowns... Anemone sensitivity   9/2/05
James,
She started eating and she has a pretty big appetite now. I tried frozen brine and I decided to give one of the other fish some small chunks of frozen krill and she ate it before they even had a chance. She did not even like krill the last time I tried to give it to her. Thank you guys so much. I also wanted to tell everybody that I had my first encounter with an anemone sting last night. I was trying to get my LTA to settle down yesterday and I put a light plastic net over it, went to work and felt a little spaced out all day, a couple of people asked me if I was alright and I didn't know any better at that point so I thought I was okay. I also decided to go for a 7.8 miles long bike ride and felt a little more sluggish than usual afterwards. Last night at 4:30 AM I woke up and had a panic attack, was covered in hives, and felt like my skin was on fire from the inside. I was beyond terrified at this point, and after a little research found that soaking the affected area in Vinegar for 30 minutes and taking some Benadryl the panic attack and hives went away. There were about 30 little white things that I could see floating in the Vinegar after I was done soaking my hand in it. I'm going to invest in some really good gloves now. Just thought that might be useful to let anybody interested in keeping anemones know about the prospective dangers involved. I did not even feel it sting me. You guys are the best resource available in this hobby. Thank you for what you do.   <Tate, glad to hear the clown is eating.  Your reaction to the anemone sting is not a common occurrence.  You would probably have a similar reaction to a bee sting.  Some people are much more sensitive to stings than others.  James (Salty Dog)>
Tate

Zoanthid toxicity... to aquarists 02/12/06
Greetings to the best reef site on the net!
<Hello! John here this morning!>
As always when I have a question or concern I turn to WWM. The question/concern is in regard to Zoanthids. I seem to be finding many references as to the toxicity of Zoanthids. As i am just reef hobbyist I am in no way an expert on such matters.
<Me too.. but have read first-hand accounts of problems due to Palytoxin, the toxin responsible.>
Can you give me and all of my fellow reefers some insight into just how dangerous Zoanthids are? Are they potentially fatal?
<Very much so, although this appears to be uncommon>
What are the risks to us?
<Dizziness, Short-term paralysis, death. Eric Borneman's "Aquarium Corals" has a few accounts of Palytoxin poisoning by aquarists. Here is an account: http://www.browseatwork.com/nph-proxy.cgi/000110A/http/www.thepufferforum.com/forum/viewtopic.php=3ft=3d2729 . Another is here: http://www.reefpark.co.uk/bb/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=703>
What special precautions are needed when handling zos?
<I would wear gloves, and wash hands/gloves thoroughly after use. If you don't have gloves, make sure you have no breaks in your skin when handling these corals. If fragging Zoanthids, definitely wear gloves, and consider eye protection.>
Are all zos venomous?
<Not sure... I believe Palythoa are the worst.>
Which types are the deadliest? Sorry to be alarmed or worried but I don't ever recall seeing any warnings posted in any LFS.
Thanks again
<You're welcome... Best regards, John.>

Several questions about clownfish, Kalkwasser, human pregnancy  - 03/05/06
Hello wise wet pet peeps,
<Okay>
I sent in a question about 6 months ago but I don't know how to find the answer.
<We respond directly to all, post most all>
I searched using a bunch of keywords but didn't find anything. So I guess my pre-question is if my question(s) are answered how do I find them on the WetWebMedia website?
<Mmm, I'd search (Google on WWM) by key terms>
How do I know if they are answered at all?
<If we get it, we respond... Have had troubles with incoming however off and on>
But here are my current questions. Question 1 is about a clownfish. I have been thinking about an anemone for about 6 months but every time I do research I realize it is not a wise thing to do so I have given up on that dream. One day I will set up an anemone tank. Something to look forward to.
I have a 90 gallon tank with metal halides and power compacts, a very good protein skimmer, good current, and great water quality. I do a 5 to 10 gallon water change twice a week. Everything in my tank seems very consistently happy (although I have had a bit of bubble algae since almost day one) (I have a couple tangs, couple clowns, royal Gramma, shrimp, snails, hermits, red and green brain, hammerhead, mushrooms, polyps, cabbage, trumpet, leather, clam). The tank is a year and a half old. I have 2 ocellaris clowns that are tank bred. The female tried to host in a flowerpot that was thriving for about a year. After about 2 months the constant kamikaze dives by the female clownfish killed it. Now the clown is going after two other corals in my tank. A green brain and a pagoda. The brain doesn't seem to mind it too much but the pagoda is not a happy camper. I moved the pagoda but the clown found it quickly. I have a 2nd similar tank at my office and the clownfish there tries to use a green brain as well. I'm wondering will the brains survive?
<Perhaps>
Is there any other coral that will withstand the clown's hosting attempts better that I can put in my tanks?
<Likely a/nother Euphylliid>
Question 2 is about Kalkwasser. I drip this every other day or so and on the alternate days I use the A/B combo mix. I've read about the dangers of KW on human lungs and I'm wondering if there is an alternative?
<...?>
Why doesn't someone develop a sort of Alka seltzer like dissolving tablet that can be dropped in the dripper so there is no powder "smoke" to be inhaled?
<Good idea>
It is quite hilarious that all of us reef nerds have learned to hold our breath long enough to prepare a KW drip!
Question 3 is about human pregnancy and a reef tank. I have had 3 miscarriages in the last year and a half and I am wondering if there are any areas of reef keeping that have been linked with prenatal problems.
<... not as far as I'm aware>
I've done research and can't find anything on this topic. I have been wearing gloves (FYI). I am also wondering about the dangers of Kalkwasser pertaining to this subject?
<I hope not>
I appreciate your response on the 3 questions above. Sorry for the lengthy prose!
Regards.
<Bob Fenner>

Red Phorbas sponge   7/7/06
Have you ever heard of a red Phorbas sponge encrusting a red fire coral?  
<Yes, have seen this>
I was snorkeling in Bermuda recently and as a novice didn't know not to touch,
<Yeeowch>
so I picked up what looked to me like a sponge, it was red, sort of cone shaped but with holes in the top that made it look like a sponge.  I carried it around for a few minutes while snorkeling and showed my son.  He also picked one up.  When we got out of the water our hands began to burn.
The locals told us it was red fire coral.  Our hands burned and itched for 24-48 hours but then resolved.  My reaction has come back and my hands all swelled up.  I am now on prednisone.  I told the doctors that I picked up red fire coral.  In researching this on your site the red fire corals seem to be fan shaped.
<Mmm, commonly, but come in all shapes>
In looking at pictures of sponges I came across the red Phorbas sponge and that looks like what I picked up.  It says that they encrust dead or live corals.  Or do you know if this is one of the "fire" sponges.  And where I might find more info about fire sponges?  I am still searching.  
Thanks for any help you can provide
Typing with sore fingers,
Katie McDonald
<I'll bet, and unfortunately I'm fresh out of time as well. Please read through this search listing: http://www.google.com/search?q=are+phorbas+sponges+toxic%3f
Bob Fenner, off to finish cooking dinner for 500>

Rash from Handling Live Rock (Wear Those Gloves!) - 05/10/06
I don't know if this e-mail should be addressed to you, "crew," or otherwise.
<<"Crew" is fine as there is no set protocol on "who" will reply>>
I've seen some info on your site about infections/diseases which can be caught from an aquarium.  About 3 weeks ago (this Thursday), I was cleaning a new batch of Fiji live rock that I had just received.  I foolishly did not use gloves (which after the fact, I found out was a good idea).
<<Indeed>>
I was holding each piece in my left hand, while scrubbing it with a brush in my right, and then adding it to a garbage can.  After I had finished, my left hand began burning, and I noticed little spines sticking out of my hands...
<<Mmm...>>
This reminded me of getting fiberglass on my hand.
<<Very similar, but with a twist...the spines may have carried a venom.  It sounds like you came in contact with a/several large bristle worms while cleaning/handling the rock>>
These spines were very thin, and appeared to be clear.  I removed what I could find with tweezers, but I could tell that a couple were still there.
<<Yes, very difficult to remove this way as most will fragment leaving behind the embedded portion in your skin...though these usually dissolve away within a couple/few days>>
About 2 days ago, I have developed a rash on my left hand.
<<Possibly an infection...different folks react/have differing levels of sensitivity to these "stings">>
It is red, blotchy, and slightly bumpy, and it itches.  The two incidents may be completely unrelated,
<<Not likely>>
and I am going to see a doctor tomorrow about this; however, if he is unfamiliar with the hobby and the "glass spines" are the cause, he may not know.
<<This is true>>
If you have any thoughts as to what this rash may be, please let me know.
<<I'm fairly certain your rash is a reaction to contact with bristle worms.  Do a Google search on our site/the NET re "bristle worms" to arm yourself with some information to pass on to the doctor>>
Thanks for your help.
<<Regards, EricR>>

Palytoxin from Palythoa spp. in my eyes?
Greetings to all the WWM Crew!
<and to you!>
I have a question regarding a very painful experience I am presently still experiencing. Two days ago while doing my regular weekly cleaning and water change,( I have a 50 gallon reef ), I noticed a few of my button polyps had detached from the main cluster. One small group of perhaps four were just an inch or so away from the main cluster, but I then noticed that a few had somehow become stuck in-between the slots at the input of my power head. So as is my custom when doing cleaning, I removed the syphon piece and went to the sink to clean it out. Then comes my big unknown mistake! As the button polyps were tightly fit between the syphon piece and would not come loose by rinsing with water, I pushed them through with my finger, which resulted in my getting a full strong squirt directly into my eyes. I was surprised at both the force and amount that had made direct contact into my eyes. I felt a slight sting but thought nothing of it so I just quickly splashed some tap water on my eyes and continued on with my water change. Soon after I went to bed. Upon waking up yesterday morning due to the pain in my eyes, I got up and proceeded to take a look at them and found they were almost completely swollen shut, with the whites of my eyes beet red and a burning pain I cannot put into words! I went to my local hospital where my eyes were examined for corneal damage,( Non had occurred), and they proceeded to flush my eyes with large amounts of saline. This is the first I was to hear about Palythoa / Palytoxin! The doctor had gotten the information through the poison center who had described my nights unfortunate encounter with my button polyp. I was told upon my leaving the hospital, that I could experience extreme swelling, redness, burning, etc. . for up to a week or even more. My question to you. The doctor made it clear he knew little of this toxin. Today my eyes are almost swollen shut, completely red, with a large amount of crusty discharge around the lids. My question to you is, Is this toxin known to cause permanent damage to the eyes? I know that in the bloodstream it can be extremely dangerous, but I would appreciate any input you might have regarding this mysterious and highly painful toxin. Especially as it relates to my experience? ( I realize you are not able to give me medical advise, but please provide me with some information, as even the doctor here seems to know little of it). Thanks WWM Crew ! I am looking forward to asking questions without the pain next time around!
<Wow! I am glad you received medical attention here because it can be extremely serious!  I feel your pain.  You can read up on more here http://www.wetwebmedia.com/ca/cav1i1/blane-zoanthids/zoanthids.htm    I haven't heard of permanent damage to eye per se, only when it enters the blood stream and then can interact with the heart/lungs and so on.  It seems you may be having more of an allergic reaction here - did they put you on any antibiotics?  Considering I'm not a medical doctor I really can't tell you what needs to be done.  However I would go see a specialist (or your general for a reference first.)  Hopefully he/she will be able to do more tests/prescribe more to help your situation.  I am very sorry that you have to experience this and it is one of the worse encounters I've heard of.  However it is your eyes, you can't be too careful.  Good luck with this.  Like I said check the link above, do more searches on here and the internet for more in-depth info on the toxin.  Keep us updated!  Jen S.>
                      Sincerely,  Trever.
 

Human arms in reef tanks...  7/12/07
Hello,
I was doing some work in the sump of my 300 gallon reef tank (mixed fish inverts) and had to put my whole arm in up to about my elbow. The next day, I noticed several small red bumps on an area of my arm? That I had scraped while it was in the water. It has not spread but it is seriously itchy!!!
<This sounds like an allergic reaction to me. Several types of reef invertebrates produce toxins that irritate skin (just like poison ivy does).>
Some type of fungal or bacterial infection? Any suggestions?
<We certainly can't diagnose you. But this doesn't sound like any of the bacterial infections reef aquarists worry most about.>
I don't have any seahorses but I do have a mixture of snails, crabs, lots of live rock, etc. I am off to the dermatologist tomorrow
<Good idea. You should always see a doctor when you suspect an infection or allergic reaction. And do tell the doctor you have a reef tank.>
but I thought one of you guys might have some insight so I could prevent this from happening again....thx!
<Gloves. There really isn't much else you can do to be sure. There are so many things in reef tanks that can cause reactions like this.
Best,
Sara M.>
Dr Steven R. Cantor

Skin Irritations From Handling Live Rock (Wear Those Gloves!) – 07/12/07
Hi there!
<<Hello!>>
I really appreciate all of your answers, and am currently re-reading Bob's CMA book...wow, what loads of information.
<<Ah yes, and if you like CMA you should really enjoy the bit more updated Reef Invertebrates book which Bob co-conspired with Anthony Calfo>>
Now my question - when I searched, I found info on corals and fish being hurt, and some reference to what I did on a dive magazine's article, but not the exact answer...
<<...?>>
After having hurriedly moved my tank early May (we got new floors, and the tank had to move), I only generally put the rocks back in (I swear, aquascaping can be one of the hardest things about this hobby!)
<<Indeed...tis a matter of “art” as well as function>>
Well, having looked at it now for 2 months, I didn't like the arrangement, and I felt it did not have the nice through-passes I previously had - so on Sunday I carefully redid the aquascaping. No problem with that - except that something on the rocks got me...again!
<<Mmm...is not uncommon...and reason enough to wear some type of protective glove>>
In May, I got the finger tips on my left ring finger and my right pointing finger - very itchy, slight bumps, and after about 10 days, the skin peeled.
<<Yikes!>>
Interestingly, when I went snorkeling in Florida in mid-June, that newly peeled skin would turn white vs. the remaining skin. I thought I had recovered, but I did not yet purchase gloves, not being able to find ones that fit or that I thought would work.
<<Mmm...>>
Well, when I redid the aquascape this Sunday, I got the tips of the thumb through ring finger on my left hand...same as last time. I did not realize it immediately, or I guess an immediate soak in vinegar would have helped, yes? (Dive article solution for majority of stuff you can get while diving).
<<Possibly...but if this is a “Bristle Worm” encounter (would be my first guess), a good wash with soap and water has worked best for me...and then of course some time to allow the “bristles” to dissolve. But, everyone is different and some folks can have quite severe reactions (as with insect stings/bites). And there’s also the possibility you have encountered or contracted something else altogether>>
By Monday morning, my ring finger pad had really swollen (although this time the bumps are actually on the side of the finger) and it has slightly discolored (towards the purple). I have tried the soaking-in-as-hot-water-as-you-can-stand, soak them in Epsom salt water, soak in vinegar, cover with Benadryl (R) cream, cover with an antibiotic cream, taking Benadryl (R) (liquid children's version) - but nothing seems to really help with the periods of itching.
<<If this has continued for more than a couple days I would suggest seeing a Doctor/Dermatologist...being sure to explain/making them understand just how you came by the affliction>>
Just a few minutes ago my thumb had an itch attack - and then it went away again a few minutes after I applied antibiotic cream - but the itching was almost painful in its
intensity, so I am curious what is going on. Any ideas what got me?
<<I can only speculate, but my first inclination is you have been “stabbed” by Bristle Worms. These beneficial detritivores are in and around the live rock you have been handling and the slightest touch/brush will leave the ever so sharp (and possibly toxic) bristles embedded in your skin. These bristles will break off leaving bits that irritate and itch...but in most cases will dissolve away within a few days. There’s also a myriad of other stinging organisms that could have caused this, depending on your sensitivity re...or this could be a secondary infection due to broken/scraped skin exposed to the water. Do have a read here for some more in-depth info: http://www.wetwebmedia.com/Wound.htm >>
Any suggestions for reducing the itching?
<<I find using a topical ointment containing Cortisone to be helpful>>
I have read about toxicity of marine life, but as far as I know, I don't have fire corals - in fact, I was simply touching my rocks, so what is on the rocks that is so toxic?
<<Many things...with exposure to Bristle Worms being very common>>
I realize it is worse this time, so I am working very hard on getting gloves that fit to prevent this in the future - I did learn my lesson, albeit the painful way.
<<Mmm, yes...have heard of some folks developing a more severe reaction with every encounter...so far I have been lucky>>
Thanks again for any inputs you have, and maybe this will help someone else in the future as well.
Kerstin DeRolf
<<I’m sure it will. Do get your wounds looked at/tended if the irritation persists...and get those gloves! Eric Russell>>

Re: Skin Irritations From Handling Live Rock (Wear Those Gloves!) – 07/13/07
Hi again!
<<Hello Kerstin!>>
Thanks for your response –
<<My pleasure>>
I do have bristle worms (while my wrasse seems to have reduced the number, I am not silly enough to believe that they are completely gone),
<<And not necessarily a desirable objective...are quite efficient/beneficial (and largely misunderstood, I think) detritivores>>
but also wonder is something may be growing on some of my rocks that could have done it as well.
<<Certainly, yes...this also is a possibility. Or simply a secondary infection of abraded flesh from exposure to the very concentrated soup of microbes in the system>>
I am glad (?) to hear that this is not uncommon, and yes, I think I am more sensitive to it just from having done a similar thing 2 months ago.
<<Common yes, but without being an alarmist I also don’t want to downplay the “potential” for serious consequences here>>
I did actually read this article on Tuesday, before I wrote to you - and some of the suggestions are the same as in the Dive article I ran across.
<<Ah, I see>>
I think one of my biggest problems is that I did not realize it on Sunday, shortly after it happened, and so waited a long time before really doing any treatments. I stymied my vet (specialized in dermatology, also studied fisheries, albeit freshwater) with it - when I showed my fingers to him this morning, at this point his solution is to do hot super-saturated salt water or Epson Salt soaks, twice a day for 20-30 minutes, water as hot as I can stand it.
<<If this complaint is still bothering/worsening I urge you to see a “people” doctor (no “slight” intended against your friend)>>
I do have the Reef Invertebrates book - like it lots too, has been useful in many ways.
<<Indeed>>
Should get the next edition of Anthony's Coral Propagation book soon, will also be interesting reading, I feel.
<<Very much in agreement>>
Right now I am trying to get Latin/technical names for my corals, many of which I admit I bought based on looks more than anything...not useful when I want to discuss them with anyone.
<<Mmm...also not useful when trying to determine care level/needs/overall suitability for captive keeping...all of which should be done “before” purchase. Eric Borneman’s book “Aquarium Corals” may prove helpful to you...as should this site: http://www2.aims.gov.au/coralsearch/coralsearch.php >>
Thanks again for all your help.
<<Any time>>
I really enjoy reading everything on your website - soooo much information, people coming at it from all various aspects.
<<Indeed...quite the collaborative effort>>
Kerstin:-)
<<Be chatting. EricR>>
P.S. Attached is the picture of my tank after the rearrangement that massacred my fingers - a 29-gallon that I know has lots of corals!
<<Ah yes...looks quite “busy” in there>>
I am working on getting a new skimmer - Aqua-C Remora HOT instead of
the SeaClone I now have.
<<Will be a huge improvement>>
I feel like my tank now has a heavy enough load that it needs more than the periodic skimming
<<Agreed>>
(Bob called it "a natural method" in one FAQ)
<<Indeed...do try a Google search on Lee Chin Eng and the “Natural Method”...you think your tank looks heavily stocked now....>>
where I only run the skimmer as an actual skimmer several times a month, and otherwise depend on the LR and LS to do much of the filtering.
<<Well past that point...in my opinion>>
I think most everyone will be happier
<<Oh yes!...have you heard of/researched the term “Allelopathy?”>>
- and hopefully soon I will upgrade the tank size.
<<Always exciting. Eric Russell>>

Fire Coral, human hlth.  11/15/07
Just reading your article on fire coral. You mention about getting stung and the treatment, you should also mention that extreme caution should be exercised also, some people like me have extreme allergy to fire coral which can land people like me in hospital, it is not just ouch. I am starting up the salt again soon and I shall do what you say and use gloves at all times. Also I do not know if you mention any other corals that can sting, I know for someone like, I must exercise extreme caution in the hobby now.  By the way I do love your site and your articles, they are very helpful in giving information and giving advice. Cheers Richard South
<Thank you for your input here. Will add/share. Cheers, Bob Fenner... always watching out for Milleporines UW>

Human Lung Disease?  11/26/07
Dear Dr. Fenner,
<Just Bob please... I have no doctorate>
Friday I spent several hours cleaning my sump, pumps, heaters etc. Most of this time was spent hunched over the garage sink with a lot of water vapor rising up into my face. That evening, my lungs felt inflamed. The next day (yesterday) a cough developed and then a high fever followed with all of the usual aches and pains associated. The reason I am writing is because there seems to be a very clear correlation between the cleaning of the sump and the rapid onset of this illness. I read the article posted on your site regarding aquariums and human health, and most of it seemed related to skin infections. Do you know of diseases of the lungs caused by the inhalation of bacteria commonly found in substrate? If so, I would greatly appreciate any references.
Best wishes to you all,
Brad in Basalt
<I do not... but do encourage you to seek out medical attention if you are concerned... I wish you good health. Bob Fenner>

Zoanthids, palytoxin, human contact  4/9/08
Mr. Fenner,
I have a disease called scleroderma that effects my autoimmune process and need to be cautious. I have read about the neurotoxin called palytoxin that occurs with Zoanthid polyps. I read about the need for caution and it's effects but on the other hand I get the impression its occurrence in the aquarium hobby seems rare. With this in mind I have what I believe is a Zoanthid Palythoa that looks like the common type with green polyps. I'm new to the hobby and need to know if I have a serious concern. I intend to use gloves if the need comes to physical touch it, but do I need to be concerned about making contact with the aquarium water with my hands.
Your input will be appreciated.
Steve C.
<Mmm, always best to be cautious when dealing with Zoanthids... particularly in handling directly, as in asexual propagation/cutting. I do advise that you, actually most everyone wear good gloves whenever they place their hands in their tanks... to prevent possible troubles for themselves during exposure, as well as to disallow contamination. Cheers, Bob Fenner>

May be Poisoned? 5/10/08
Hi, I was helping my boyfriend move his 12 gallon nano home today from school and in the process I spilled some tank water on my leg that has an open cut. The corals were all extremely irritated at being moved and I’m sure they gave off some type of toxin in the process.
<Possibly, the zoos more than anything as far as toxins pertaining to effects on humans.>
Its been about 10 hours and my leg is starting to hurt from my hip to my foot almost as if its just a strained muscle. I thought at first that’s what it was because we moved a lot of stuff today but that was until I thought about the water being spilled on my leg where I had a cut. The corals in the tank are Zoanthids, mushrooms, Ricordea mushrooms, Acans, Xenia, yellow Toadstool Leather, and Frogspawn. I believe that’s everything that’s in there. The pain in my leg didn’t start right away but now its extremely sore. Its 2 a.m. where I am and I don’t know if I want to wake my entire house to go to the hospital if it really is just a sore muscle. I don't even remember cutting my leg so I’m not sure how old the cut actually was once the water hit it.
<Even if there were toxins in the water, the dilution thereof should be of no consequence. It is likely not related to the water spilling onto your leg other than any possibility of an infection (even then not likely brought about by the spill alone). I/we are not M.D.’s, if you have any concerns about your well being, by all means do consult a physician, other concerns may be at play here. I wish you the best, Scott V.>

Zoanthus vs. Palythoa vs. Protopalythoa: Palytoxin 07/07/08
Hi WWM crew,
<Hello Brian! Sorry about the slow response, I was asleep at the wheel...>
I'm writing you about palytoxin because I so far cannot find concrete answers about it anywhere and I have children and pets around my tanks.
<Yes...many stories, few facts available to the hobbyist>
This is my first letter to you all after many readings (including reading many of your letters on Zoanthidea and palytoxin). I have a few quick questions and I would appreciate any citations to additional resources you can give, the more scientific the better. I'm trying to get hold of the Book of Coral Propagation by Anthony and Corals and Coral Reefs by Eric Borneman since I hear they have good info on palytoxin but no luck so far (they're expensive!).
<Calfo gives some anecdotal info that is helpful- cautionary - to the hobbyist. If you're interested in scientific texts on palytoxins you might try a local library or (preferably) a college library where you can gain access to scholarly journals. Perhaps a search of scholar.google.com or JSTOR would be fruitful in this area.>
(1) How can you tell the difference between a Zoanthus, a Palythoa, and a Protopalythoa species of Zoanthidea? I would like to concretely identify what is in my tank and learn how to ID future specimens.
<As I understand it, this largely relates to the common foot. As hobbyists Zoanthus are the smaller, more colorful polyps sharing a foot; Parazoanthus being larger, more distinctly carnivorous, and still sharing a common foot, and the Palythoa/Protopalythoa being colonies of unconnected large polyps>
(2) Do all Zoanthidea species have palytoxin in them? I know that even within Palythoa, not all specimens have palytoxin in them, but I'm wondering here whether all 3 species have palytoxin or if, for example, Zoanthus are safe and do not have it.
<All of these families may/do produce palytoxin and other organic poisons>
(3) If not all Zoanthidea have palytoxin, which ones do not have it?
<Can't be told based on appearance, unfortunately. We must suspect all...for safety reasons>
(4) Where is the palytoxin actually "kept" in the Zoanthidea? Is it ever released other than when the specimen is damaged or cut? How is it released (I've read about it squirting out of Zoanthus but never seen anything on how they actually release it)?
<It is held in the fluid of the mesophyl, exuded in mucous, as an allelopathic compound.>
(5) Is palytoxin also harmful to other things in the tank (e.g. other corals, fish, inverts, macroalgae, etc.)?
<Anything with nervous tissue, motor function>
(6) I have two Zoanthidea in my tank now that I was told, when buying them, were Zoanthus. I knew nothing about palytoxins so didn't ask any questions beyond that identification. They have spread off the original frag/rock/disc they came on and some of the polyps are bridging the gap between the frag disc and the live rock. If it turns out these are a species that sometimes contains palytoxin I'll probably not keep them, the risk seems not worth it despite their beauty. How should I go about removing them from the tank to minimize the risk of palytoxin exposure?
<The only way to eliminate exposure would be to take the polyps and the rocks they are on, bag them in garbage sacks, and dispose of them.>
I've taken up a lot of your time already, so I'll stop here. Thank you again for your answers.
<Unless these creatures are handled, palytoxin poisoning is unlikely. If you are concerned about colony size or a child reaching a hand in the tank, removing these is probably prudent. DO take care in handling them (gloves, goggles, etc.) especially if they have been severed or crushed.>
Sincerely,
Brian
<Benjamin>