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Steven pro; Mycobacterial involvement
7/15/14 Stung by Long-Spine Urchin /RMF
4/25/13 How do bristleworms attack?
3/29/13 Clown Tang Problem, Please Help
(Attacking the hand that cleans'¦) -- 03/04/11 Bristle Worm Sting -- What to
Expect? -- 12/11/10 Foxface question, beh., human hazards -- 03/07/09 I had a Foxface, along with a hippo and dwarf angel in a 90 gallon for about 2 years. The Foxface was always scared of me, and would dive for cover when I came near, and especially when I worked in the tank. But for the last 3 weeks or so, for some reason he has become very, maybe too, bold. He deliberately comes to my hand being in the tank, and I have seen his spines up a couple of times, at which time I take my hand out right away. Is this normal Foxface behavior? <Can be... Siganids can be territorial... and our systems are smaller by far than the space they deem theirs... and you are right to be careful here> He is about 6 inches long now, and being his disposition has changed so suddenly, I was wondering if this is dangerous. I actually felt safer when he was scared of me. Thanks, Eddie <Can be dangerous... this fish appears to be feeling threatened by your hand... do you have a yellow glove on? I would work with someone else helping you... with a good sized net in their hand... when you have your body in this system. Bob Fenner> Bristleworms... and human hands... Ouch! Dear Bob (or whomever I'm lucky enough to talk to today), <Hello Scott> I have a couple quick questions on bristleworms. I recently took over a tank from someone else. It is LOADED with bristleworms. In the process of moving the live rock, I managed to grab a bristleworm with my bare hand. <Yeowch!> I received about a two inch long, 3/8 inch wide swath of bristles to the inside of my pinkie finger. This was about three weeks ago. Reading, I know that they secrete a neurotoxin, and my finger has been swollen, reddened, and numb (not completely, but pretty significantly). I also have a little fine motor function restriction (kinda "fumble fingered"). I expected all the symptoms, but thought they would subside after a week or so. <Sometimes longer...> The initial pain is gone, but I still have some sensory and motor function deficit. Is this normal? <Mmm, yes... but...> Have you ever seen permanent neuromuscular damage from bristleworms? <Not per se, no> I'm attempting to trap and eliminate a majority of these little critters, which leads to my next question. Would a mantis shrimp eat bristle worms? <Very often, yes> I have a small green mantis in my main tank that I could move over if he'd like a feast:) <I might definitely try this... for sure... Heeee!> I've also considered a six-line wrasse, since I like their coloration. Any other suggestions? <The Stomatopod for now> I don't want to introduce livestock that I'm not interested in keeping long-term (i.e. coral banded shrimp). Thanks for all you guys do! Scott <I urge you to go "see a specialist" re that pinky... It may be that a small local injection (won't play "House" here) will/would greatly speed along healing, return of function. Bob Fenner> Live Rock "Cacti" Re: Cactus Quills aka Bristle Worm Sting 10/1/08 Hello again! <Howdy> I have a question that I have been trying to get an answer to for quite some time now. About a month ago I decided that I was going to do some aquascaping with my live rock. After I had finished and my hands had dried they began to burn a little. As I took a closer look I noticed what appeared to be tiny cactus quills all in my hand. Someone told me this could be a sign of fire corals in my tank, but seeing as how I only have 50/50 lights, I don't see how the coral could survive for 6 months in that specific tank. This is a FOWLR tank. Any suggestions of what this could have possibly been? I didn't get sick and felt fine, just my hands were on fire and itching really bad! Thanks in advance!! <Did the 'quills' look like this? http://i95.photobucket.com/albums/l127/francis1123/IMG_3110.jpg It is most likely a bristle worm sting. You'd be in a lot more pain if it were fire coral. Please read more about bristle worms here http://www.wetwebmedia.com/bristlewrmfaqs.htm and the related articles. Regards, Jessy> Re: Cactus Quills aka Bristle Worm Sting 10/1/08 No, the quills did not look like that, a lot smaller in fact. <Probably broken off because you kept pillaging around the rocks> I could barely see them. What happened was I put a stupid Condy anemone in my tank and well, it disappeared. So, I decided that I needed to do some aquascaping anyway. I took out all the Live Rock and searched in all the nook and crannies for this anemone and scrubbed the rock with a toothbrush. I never noticed any bristleworms at all, <Most likely you won't see them unless you are looking for them. They have a way of tucking themselves into rocks and only allowing a centimeter of their body to show as they travel from hole to hole> but about an hour later I noticed the quills. These things were so small you couldn't really get a picture of them, but there were about 100 of them in each hand. <I can almost guarantee you that it was a bristle worm of some species. The picture I referred you to is a perfect example of undisturbed line of bristles that were freshly stung. If the man in the picture had kept playing in his tank, they would have all broken off in his skin. Just so happens that a when tweezing he found that they are very delicate and prone to breaking easily. A few stayed lodged in his skin, the only evidence was a red swollen area and itchiness, he too couldn't see them. If you had fire coral in your tank, you would not just be complaining of itchiness an hour later. You would have no doubt about being stung by a fire coral. There is a reason it has its name. May I suggest you not go digging around in your tank without gloves on again. Regards, Jessy> Attack Oscars Hi I have some Oscars that someone gave me, when I was putting one in my tank he caught my knuckle on my finger. Now it feels like I have a cactus needle in it. I have not found anything, I used a needle to open it up. Is there a chance of maybe some type of poison that he would have in his fin to make it feel that way. Thanks for your time. Connie < Oscars like all cichlids have sharp dorsal spines that protect them from predators. They are not know to contain poison but it is entirely possible and highly probable that their skin is covered with bacteria and could cause infection. It is also possible that there may still be a tip of a dorsal spine still embedded in your knuckle. thus causing your discomfort.-Chuck>
Grabbing Bristleworms -
08/08/2005 Hello, <Hi.> My name is Julie and I am writing b/c
my boyfriend was moving some things around in our salt water tank and
moved a rock that had some bristle worms under it and in return got
stuck by them. He pulled his hand out with about 200 little sticky
things on it. <Yeeeee-OWCH!> I am unsure if they were the legs of
the worm or what exactly. <The spines of the worm(s), most
likely. Try to remove ASAP> But we searched the web and
your site and saw nothing in regards to this. Is this going to do
anything to him? <Mm. Quite honestly, if you're not
sure what sort of animal you're dealing with (bristleworm vs.
fireworm), I would suggest consulting your physician, just to be on the
safe side. Bristleworms, though they can inflict a rather
painful wound, are not usually very dangerous, whereas a fireworm can
really inflict some pain/damage. I understand that running
very hot water over the site of the wound will break down the proteins
in the toxin and make it much less painful - hot water from the tap, as
hot as he can stand it but NOT hot enough to scald, is perhaps your
best first course of action while you contact your
doctor. Chances are, this is a mostly harmless wound, but
please do not hesitate to talk to your doctor; at least he will be
somewhat informed of what's going on in case something does come of
this.> Thank you so much for your time in reading this and
answering, <Please also search the 'net very well for similar
instances, and try to identify the animals involved. And
PLEASE consider a pair of heavy-duty reef handling
gloves!! Something like this: http://www.thatpetplace.com/Products/KW/gloves/ Echinothrix calamaris (Hatpin Urchin) 1/19/06 Hello Bob, <James today> I work at a small LFS and we the boss picked up 3 "zebra urchins" at our supplier the other day. They are Echinothrix calamaris I believe. My first question is, do these urchins have the ability to "shoot" their shorter spines out? <<No... don't shoot out. RMF>> I touched the longer tubular spines with my thumb while trying to move it (and ONLY the bigger ones, I am positive) but received two of the smaller spines buried in my thumb. Very painful. I've heard from several sources that they may be able to do so but no definitive proof. Second question is, are they reef-safe? They are in our fish-only tanks at the moment because we could not find any information on whether they are or not reef-friendly. <The spines of these urchins have hundreds of alternating light/dark bands, some being strong, thick and hollow and others shorter and finer with all being very sharp. I'm guessing while you were trying to move it the shorter finer ones nailed you. The venom is very much like a bee sting so it doesn't surprise me that it is painful. Interesting urchin as in nature they can attain lengths of up to 9" and Banggai Cardinals often seek shelter among their spines during the day. I did some researching and couldn't find anything as to the urchin "shooting spines". James (Salty Dog)> Thank you and keep up the good work! <You're welcome> Brandon Steve the ex-croc man vs. the Ray... about the animal? 9/4/06 Greetings Mr. Fenner, Today is a tragic day for just about anyone who cares for the planet's animal's and a grieving family of course. I write today after viewing your website, and seeing your email address. I want to pose a question about the animal that took Steve' life, we hear being reported on the news that this creature is a "Bull Nose" Ray of about 7' across, and I was curious about the approximate measure of the stinger portion of this individual's tail? thanks. warmest regards, Zander Z. Van Draden Zz <Mmm, likely ten to fifteen cm.... do lose these, regenerate... is actually a "sheath" that covers the poison-secreting/delivery mechanism... Bob Fenner>
Jabbed By a Catfish...No Need For Panic - 09/26/06 Hi, <<Hello> I was moving an extremely large (24-30") Albino Channel Catfish from one pond to another in my Grandparents yard in a Koi net (large circle, very flat) and I had someone else carry the net by the handle while I was holding it in the net with another small one. Then, it tried to jump out, so I restrained it in the net (grabbed it "Irwin Style") with my two bare hands, and after a few more steps, I felt a sharp pain in my right hand. <<Mmm...these fish have very stiff and sharp pectoral and dorsal fins. They can be handled with bare hands (have handled many a catfish in my younger days), but you need to be aware/know how to "grab">> I now have 3-4 punctures, but they are not very deep. <<Ouch!...been there...often burns like the dickens!>> It did not bite me, but rather stabbed me with something. <<Ah yes...as mentioned>> Are these catfish poisonous? If so, what do I do? Please answer ASAP!!! <<They are not "poisonous", or more accurately - venomous, in the sense that a snake is poisonous/venomous, but the "slime" that is carried in to the wound can cause pain/infection. I don't think you need be alarmed, but you might want to call your physician to see if "they" think you should come in for treatment/disinfection of the wound...at the least you will likely need a Tetanus shot if you're not current re>> Thanks, Anthony <<Regards, EricR>> Sohal tang aggressive? 12/30/06 Hello Crew <Hi Wayne, Rick Oellers (via proxy of Graham T.)> Happy New Year to you all. <Thank you! And to you and your's!> I have a 210gal FOWLR with some softies, 100lbs of LR (will have another 100lbs in the next month),<Good Idea.> and just hooked up my AquaC EV240 w/Mag18 (wife got it for me for Christmas).<Wish my wife would do that...> I currently have a Volitans Lionfish 9", Harlequin Tuskfish 5", and a Yellowtail Damsel. Everybody gets along great. <Damsel... interesting. How big?> I've been thinking of adding a Sohal Tang to the tank. I've read they can be aggressive. What do you think about this choice? <(Rick) A Sohal tang (Acanthurus sohal) added *last* to your tank is a good addition to the community you have currently, with one condition. The specimen should be around 3" or so to avoid over-aggression. In addition to the referenced aggression, slightly less documented is this species' poisonous scalpel! I (Rick) found out the hard way when trying to revive a seemingly distressed specimen in a shipping container, when SMACK! he got me! I recoiled at first, then again, and again as the real pain set in. What a wallop!> Wayne <Rick Oellers & Graham Tasker> <<Thank you both! RMF>> Rabbitfish question, handling 12/15/2007 Hello. I've got a one-spot Foxface Rabbitfish and we've had it for some time now. It's doing well and growing like crazy. We bought him in town and nobody told me that the spines could be dangerous. <Oh yes> Needless to say, we moved him between 3 tanks now and didn't know. I held him in my hand at one point and even helped him get his gills going in the new tank when the smaller tank he had been raised in crashed. (We had numerous newbie fish disasters throughout the year, but everything is a+ stable now). I am concerned after finding out that they are venomous, quite by accident, because nobody took the time to tell us, knowing we were newbies. I've searched the site thoroughly and read the Rabbitfish FAQs, and I see that it mentions that they have a painful sting and are venomous. It does not, however, tell you how venomous they are (from what I saw, but I may have missed it somewhere) or if they are actually fatal, such as the lionfish can be. <Somewhat less than Pteroines... more than bees... Can be dangerous to folks who have aversion to proteinaceous stings> I am concerned, needless to say, because he's grown to about six inches long and he's quite the boss of the big tank, with the exception of a few of our tangs, who rule the roost. Thank you <I too have hand-handled many Siganids... one just needs to be careful to keep their hands away from the spiny (anterior) portions of their dorsal and anal fins... Bob Fenner> V tail aggression 5/12/08 Hello crew I have a 90 gal FOWLR setup with 2 dwarf lionfish and a 6 inch v tail grouper. Every time I put my hand in the tank my grouper darts at me with super speed. I cant rearrange my live rock I want to form more cave like formations. How can I stop him from attacking me without injuring him? I do not want to damage my fish do you have any suggestions? <Have you tried/considered wearing gloves? -Sara M.> Dragon Goby, Human Injury 6/9/08 Hi, <Hello> I am trying to research the dragon goby, but not for a fish tank. Recently, while we were at Thassos, Greece, my daughter reached down to pick up what she thought was a rock or a shell, but turned out to be a fish that had been resting under the sand. (She was sure it was a sea snake that bit her.) <Did it look like puncture wounds? If so I would guess it was stuck by spines as opposed to bitten.> It did cut her finger and resulted in a very painful and inflammatory reaction. A doctor there came to give her an injection to help with the pain, and said it was probably a dragonfish. Two weeks later, her finger is still swollen and is now being treated medically. I want to find out more if the dragon goby could be the fish that she touched. <Unlikely, they would not be capable of inflicting such a would, I would guess it was some sort of Scorpaenidae, many of which do have venomous spines and could be mistaken for rocks.> I am not finding very good information so far, and see that you have a lot of expertise. Will you please help me by directing me to the right resources? Please send information directly back to my email address. Thank you. Sincerely, Melissa <Some of these fish can be very dangerous, fortunately it seems as though the injury here is pretty localized. Two weeks seems like a very long time to still have significant injury, perhaps DAN (Diver Alert Network) could direct you to a doctor familiar with dive related injuries, and may have familiarity with something like this. http://www.diversalertnetwork.org/index.asp . Hopefully if Bob has any more ideas he will add here, but I would definitely seek a medical professional here.> <Chris>
Bob! just got pricked.... Hi Bob, hope your vacation was nice (sure it was), I was just doing a water change and foolishly moved my hand onto my long spine black urchin (the one with the blue and orange eye looking thing in the middle) got a couple pricks on the side of my finger, anything to worry about?, just don't tell me I'm dying, lol.....thanks for your time.... <Do soak the area in warm water (as hot as comfortable) and put a dab of Neosporin (or equivalent) over the puncture and a bandage... and call me in the AM! Oh, and read here: http://www.wetwebmedia.com/Wound.htm Bob Fenner>
Stingray Wound - 8/15/03 What is the recommended treatment of a wound caused by the barb of a Round Stingray? <To a human, fish, invertebrate, itself? I do assume you are speaking of a human, no? Here is what the dive doctor has for ya: Prehospital Care: As soon as possible, immerse the affected body part in very hot water (as hot as the patient can tolerate without actually getting burned) or apply a hot pack to the affected body part. Heat rapidly decreases the patient's pain. Emergency Department Care: If a patient has demonstrated any sign of systemic effect, it should be addressed quickly. No specific antidote is available, and supportive care is recommended, including use of analgesics. An easy and important initial treatment that can be started (sometimes at the scene of the injury) is immersion of the injured extremity in hot water (preferably 110-115°F). The water should be as hot as the patient can tolerate but should not cause burns. The water should be exchanged for more hot water as it cools, for an immersion duration of 30-90 minutes. Very little has been written about the toxin left in wounds after a stingray injury. The authors do know that the stingray toxin is a protein and is very sensitive to heat. The patient should obtain very rapid symptomatic improvement with heat as the poison denatures and becomes neutralized. In addition, some practitioners also infiltrate the wound with a local anesthetic, such as Lidocaine (Lignocaine) or the longer-acting Bupivacaine. Occasionally, parenteral narcotics also may be given. After the toxin has been deactivated by the hot water, attention to local wound care should begin because it is not uncommon for part of the stinging apparatus to break off in the wound. Obtain a plain radiographic image (X-ray) of the injured area to look for retained barbs or other foreign material. Explore the wound thoroughly and irrigate it. Perform any necessary debridement. (debris removal). Remove any foreign body from the wounds, including the spine and sheath from the stingray stinger, as well as dirt or sand. As with other potentially contaminated wounds, consider allowing the wound to heal without closure. Because most of the wounds are small, this usually is not an issue. If the wound is very large or gaping, consider loose primary closure. Address the patient's tetanus immunization status and administer a booster as needed. -Paul> Stingray Wound to a Hooman Beene - 8/15/03 Hi, Paul! Wow, that was FAST!!! <We aim to please, plus a marine inflicted wound is nothing to wait about> Yas, it be to a hooman beene! <Lucky guess. I figured fish know enough not to muck with a stingray. :-) Diving or venturing into the frigid south coast waters?> Excellent info, and Thank You Very Much, R.L. "Bob" Dean <My pleasure. Take the wound seriously and let us know if we can be of anymore help -Paul> Medical Article Related to Marine Aquaria Bob & Fellow Crewmates: I thought you might find this article about "Poisonings, Envenomations and Trauma From Marine Creatures" found in the most recent issue of American Family Physician to be interesting/useful. Steve http://www.aafp.org/afp/20040215/885.html Arius seemanni Venom (3/7/04) Hi, <Steve Allen today> I have a aggressive Arius seemanni and I have read that they have anticoagulant venom. My question is, what would happen if I where to be bitten <the venom is actually through the dorsal spines> , would this pose a risk to my health (could I get sick/die), and what should I do if she does bite me? <I found little about this on the internet, suggesting there have been few cases of actual harm. You might w ant to do more research on the web or through a university library. Anticoagulant venoms aren't really likely to kill you, but there could be a lot of localized bleeding. If you got a lot of venom in you, it could possibly cause serious problems. In your position, I'd keep my bare skin out of the tank. Get some puncture-resistant aquarium gloves and keep an eye on him. If something happens, cal your doctor immediately. > Thank You-Joey <Hope this helps.> Netting fish with spines Hello- <Hi there> I've been an avid reader of all the info on WWM for about 8 months now. It's been a great help while I try to get my 75 gallon bow front up and running. My question is about fish with spines or even venomous spines (specifically tangs and Rabbitfish). I've seen it mentioned that these fish need to be netted with caution. Is there a specific net you recommend? A specific technique? <A couple things... do use two nets (much better than chasing fishes around with just one), and thick rubber gloves to cradle the caught specimens if they have such spines (many fishes and quite a few non-fishes do)> Thanks for your help and keep up all the great work on WWM, it's such a great resource for all of us just starting out! Danielle <A pleasure to serve, share. Bob Fenner> |
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