System for Fish at new facility... another satisfied customer
Hi Bob and Crew
<Evening>
Since our last correspondence a month ago, my holding facility has been
cycling well....6 weeks in fact (system details below)
I had my first shipment from overseas come in 2 days ago, and applied the
Guerilla Acclimation technique....I lost no fish from 160....BUT, some
things alarmed me, and I would like to outline these to you...please tell me
if something is not right.
I prepared some mixing water...approximately twice the volume of the
shipping water....I added Stresscoat from Aq Pharmaceuticals, and some
Methylene Blue ( but not a huge amount)...I added a whole bunch of airstones
and put the chiller to work....I lowered the pH to 7.5 as a preliminary, so
I could fine tune it a few hours later when the fish came in.
When the fish came, we opened a few of the bags and tested pH.....down in
the mid to low 6's.....was a bit of a shock !!
<Heeeee! Happens>
....so we did the Kitty Litter
thing with larger plastic containers, and poured the fish and shipping water
into these....put in the airstones and waited 30 min.s....The fish generally
seemed OK......Tested the Ammonia during this time and the result was deep
Green ....quite high.....
<Typical>
Tested the pH again after this 30 min.s and it was
7.2.......we then fine-tuned the mixing water......
<Good>
My 1st question is...is this normal?...
<Very>
and with the pH rising 0.7 in 30 min.s
on it's own drastic enough for the NH3 to change and become nasty?
<Can be>
We then proceeded to slowly ladle in mixing water....took 1 hour or more to
add double the amount than the shipping water, with the excess draining of
through holes drilled in the trays.....tested Ammonia again, and it was
still high, but not quite as high.......but the pH had risen again by a
little.
<Ahh... yes>
I started to worry a little, but the fish seemed to be generally
OK.........My system water was then slowly added......parameters for system
water as follows,  Ph 8.3, dKH 8, Salinity 1.023, Ammonia, Nitrite, Nitrate,
Phosphate all Nil....calcium 380..D.O  6+, and temp 24.5 Celsius.......
Over the next 2 hours, we slowly added system water until the pH was 8.2
(pH was monitored constantly throughout this process).......
We prepared a freshwater dip to 8.2 also, and added a few drops of
Formalin....in your article it said an ounce per gallon, but the bottle said
a couple of drops per gallon...so I was really confused and went with a few
drops........added 2 Yellow Tangs to try.....and they went ape in the
Freshwater Bath......needless to say we then dispensed the rest of the  fish
into the system without the dip....
Within a few minutes   3 Yellow Tangs and a Declivis started to swim crazy
loop the loop configurations......
<Again... par for the course>
However....no dead fish !!!!
<Amazing, eh?>
Please read through what I did and let me know if there is anything I did
wrong, or need to do better, as I have a Shipment from Brazil coming in 2
days, and these guys will have been in bags for 50 hours.....albeit in a
damn sight more water than the Hawaii shipment......
Thanks in advance for your valuable advice.
JD
<More and more valuable as you consider... Bob Fenner>

Acclimating New Fish
Hello, At the pet shop I work at we are having a problem with the freshwater angel fish we bring in. Commonly experience loss of about 50% or more of the first few days. Having tried various things, I wonder if there is some
point in your guerilla acclimating procedure I could mimic and get more headway.
First how we do it.
Fish arrive as shipments from a company called Coast. The old box with Styrofoam surrounding it. Fish in bags of bluish water, which I take is Methylene blue.
< Maybe Start Right by Jungle that is a combination of Meth. blue and salt.>
We float the bags for 20 - 30 minutes. Cut off top of bag with scissors, and gently pour into a specimen container, then using a net put them directly into the aquarium. {don't have the facility to quarantine, really}
Yes, sometimes we've tried introducing tank water into the shipping bag. I do have concerns of raising the ph of the shipping water, thus making the ammonium more toxic as ammonia. Might that only be a valid concern if the ph of the shipping water is below 7? 7.4 o.k.?
< Two things going on. If the fish have been in the bags for a long time then there may be a build up of CO2 in the bag which is an acid and lowers the pH of the water. You are right in the sense that the lower pH has made the ammonia less toxic to the fish. Check the Ph of the newly opened bag with a pH meter. Add an airstone for 20 minutes and check the pH again. If the pH has risen then the CO2 has been aerated out of the water and the pH should be closer to your tanks at the store. 
The second is a build up of ammonia in the bag. Check the ammonia levels in the bag. The ammonia levels in the water can be quickly neutralized with chemicals and resins. Neutralize the ammonia then volatize the CO2. In the 20 minutes that the CO2 is being given off, the fish will lose some of the ammonia back into the water as a waste product. So there should be less of a pH shock and stress from ammonia.>
Since at work the fish are shipped with 'blue water' already in the bag, should I still make a mix of Methylene blue in the 'holding water'?
< No, waste of time. >
Shipping in 'blue water' may make testing for ph harder, we use the questionable accuracy of strips from jungle to do it. I could always bring in a digital ph pen to give me a more accurate number. Is that the best choice?
< Absolutely. Make sure it is calibrated with a standard solution.>
So from the guerilla's mouth I should change the way I acclimate at least my angels to; Floating the bag for temperature
< Waste of time unless extremely hot or cold>
Remove a portion of holding tank water to a kitty litter bin scissor off the fish bag and test the ph add enough ph-down to the holding water in the litter bin to match the ph (does that take long?)
< Extreme pH changes should be avoided. Aerate to drive off the CO2, Neutralize the ammonia.>
8 drops of Methylene blue, tablespoon aquarium salt, band-aid in a bottle nova aqua maybe some Maracide and Maracyn and an air stone So in essence we have given a medicative dip to a fish at the same time as acclimation, which does indeed eliminate many of the nasties in shipping bag water.
The salt is purely to help the stressed fish, you apply to this to tetras and S. American catfish?
< No way. They hate salt!!>
These fish are known to be salt intolerant, but in this instance the salt is short term. Probably best to avoid with elephant nose fish, though.
< Absolutely.>
Novaqua would be helpful - for physical injury and slime coat damage
< I do like the Kordon products.>
For my work I'm thinking angel fish from Coast, for myself I'm thinking wild caught zebra Plecos or queen Plecos. Any difference in procedure?
< You are talking captive bred angels with wild caught pleco's. If the pleco's are coming from the same guy then they should be in the same water and the same procedures will apply. Wild pleco's from South America are a different story.>
Thank you for your help. I know I have to chew the fat of the guide for awhile. The airstone contradiction.. the combining of medicating and acclimating in the same step... but I do see it as working, and perhaps a better way. I should ask to view the acclimation of sensitive S. American catfish at my LFS, if they don't think I'm stealing their secrets for the competition. Thank you, again
< If your fish are dying after a few days then there may be something wrong with your tanks too. Baby angelfish are usually at the wholesalers for awhile and get little or no food at all. Once they are in the tank they should get lots of aeration and at least one feeding of live food live worms. Check the nitrates. They should be under 25 ppm, the lower the better.-Chuck> 

Quarantine Systems For A Retail Store
Hey Bob/Crew
<Scott F. here today!>
I am operating a fish dept. at a new pet store in Newberg Oregon.
Basically I have been browsing around trying to figure out the best way to acclimate my new fish with out having to take up half of my day. We have been having a problem with ich in our systems (mostly marine- little freshwater) and I was wondering If that could be a result of bad acclimation. Do you recommend the use of Stresszyme or a similar product?
<I personally do not use such products during acclimation, but they are certainly a help if used properly>
I was also wondering about quarantine tanks – SW and FW. What size of tank do you recommend if it is being used for a store? We currently have about 1200 gallons of SW and 1500 gallons of FW We have been using a fish vet product for ich, but don’t treat for much else. Do you recommend regular feeding in the QT?
Thanks in advance,
Andrew Bellamy
Partner/Aquarium Guy
Critter Cabana, LLC
<Well, Andrew, as a big fan of quarantine, I would highly recommend several tanks devoted to the process. It would be great to have several tanks of 20-40 gallons each to quarantine your fishes. If you are receiving/selling larger fishes, then you might even choose to go with a 60-75 gallon tank or two. Since these are not permanent systems, you might even be able to use large Rubbermaid or other container to do the trick more economically. Aquatic Eco Systems has a nice selection of these types of vessels in a variety of sizes. As far as feeding in quarantine is concerned, I certainly do recommend regular feedings. Do conduct frequent small water changes for fishes being quarantined as well. We have a lot of good resources on the Wetwebmedia site on the acclimation and quarantine process, all of which can be equally applicable to retail operations, so check 'em out! Regards, Scott F>
www.crittercabana.com
Aquariumguy@crittercabana.com

Acclimation/dip procedure for marine importer
We're a freshwater fish importer/wholesaler about to bring in our first batch of marine fish.  The success of this shipment from Indonesia will help test whether we should invest in expanding to a marine operation (for this trial shipment we're leasing tank space in the quarantine area of a large retail shop).  Although constrained by the time and money pressures inherent in a competitive business, we want to do this right, or as close to right as we can get.  
<Yes... know that marine arrivals are more variable, volatile than fresh>
Since we don't have the luxury of isolating and holding all specimens for 3 weeks of quarantine, we've decided to use a dip method to remove parasites on arrival.
<Worthwhile>
Since the fish will have been in the bag for 30 to 40 hours by the time they get here, with pH somewhere between 7.2 and 6.5, we're trying to figure out a compromise between allowing them to gradually re-adjust to normal marine pH and getting them out of their ammonia-laden bag water quickly...complicated by the need to process several hundred fish in a few hours' time.  We'd appreciate your comments and suggestions on our proposed procedure.
<The best ("A" players like Quality Marine in L.A. and Tropic Marine Centre in London, "meet" the arrival pH with artificial seawater that has been pH adjusted (with dilute HCL, aka Muriatic Acid) to that of the shipping water... flushing out the existing water and mixed till there is no detectable ammonia present... then flushing with new near seawater synthetic...>
Here's our plan:
set up three 5-gallon buckets (actually several sets of 3).  
Bucket #1 is salt water with pH reduced to some intermediate level between the fish's bag water and the target pH of 8.3.  We're thinking around 7.6?
<Should be near or at the shipping water pH>
Bucket #2 is water from the destination system.
<Where are you going to get this? I suspect you mean water of 8.3 from your system... which you'll use then dump>
Bucket #3 is a freshwater dip, also at pH 8.3.
<Okay>
All 3 buckets will be aerated for a couple of hours by the time the fish arrive.
1) sealed bags are floated in destination system, if needed, to match temperature.
2) a group of 6 to 10 bags are cut open, bag water discarded, and fish placed in bucket #1 for 7 minutes.
<As long as it takes to slowly (over several minutes) flush out the ammonia... i.e. run new water (ala bucket #2 into the container (#1) till there is no ammonia. Better to use smaller volumes, less steep-sided containers like plastic kitty-litter trays with holes in side or tilted at angle here>
3) the fish are then moved to bucket #2 for 7 minutes, and the next batch of 6 to 10 fish go into bucket #1.
4) the first fish go into the freshwater dip, #3, for 7 minutes, the 2nd batch is moved, and a 3rd batch is started in bucket #1.  The time in bucket #3 may be altered if a fish starts flipping out.
<Do add aeration to all "buckets">
5) after freshwater dip, each batch is moved to the destination system.
Aside from just "what do you think of this?", our questions are:
1) What should the pH be in bucket #1?
<That of the shipping water>
  Do we need a bucket #1.5?
<Maybe, unless you change #2 as noted above>
Is seven minutes enough here?  
<Should be... but the transition between 1 and 2 (or 1.5) needs to be made with a test kit rather than a timer. You want to remove the ammonia from inside the specimens... no matter how long this takes... drip or run water from #2 (or 1.5) into each batch of #1 until there is no NH3>
(we picked that time because it was appropriate for the FW dip, but if it's wrong for acclimation we can alter the procedure).
2) Should we use methylene blue?  In which bucket(s)?  Is there any fish group we should NOT use it with?
<This is fine... depending on the state of health of the fishes it may help some or not much at all. You want to observe all, continuously>
3) Which inverts should be FW dipped?  which ones should not?  (I assume no methylene blue for inverts?)
<I would NOT freshwater dip any of the invertebrates... nor expose them to the air... need to use flushes of just near seawater specific gravity (measure what is in their bags and match it) here>
4)  We are still looking for an affordable source of tank raised clowns, but in the meantime we do have some wild clowns coming on this order.
<... Where are you folks located? What sort of volume do you do? Have you contacted ORA re?>
Due to the pervasiveness of Brooklynella (or "perconella" as some around here call it), we're considering adding formalin to the FW bucket for clowns only.  Good idea or bad?  How much 37% formaldehyde to 5 gallons?
<Very insightful... very common... and yes to being worthwhile to use formalin in a dip/bath here. Please see here: http://www.wetwebmedia.com/brooklynellosisart.htm
About one cc. per gallon>
5) Speaking of T/R clowns, can you refer us to a producer who sells to wholesalers (and not at the same price they sell to retailers)?
<Are you in the U.S.? I would try ORA: http://www.orafarm.com/
if you want to look into importing from the UK, TMC: http://www.tmc-ltd.co.uk/aquariumproducts/tropicmarintestkits.asp>
We're also looking for other T/R fish, especially seahorses since after reading the Conscientious Marine Aquarist we won't buy wild seahorses at all.
<These can be had from the above>
Any help you can give would be greatly appreciated.
Sincerely,
Keith Langley
Nautilus Wholesale Aquatics
Denver, Colorado
<Hope to run into you at the industry shows (was just out giving a pitch at "Marine Showcase"... would have come by for a visit...). Bob Fenner>

Quarantine Setup
Hello Bob,
If you have time I would appreciate any input you have on setting up saltwater quarantine tanks for my store. I've been selling saltwater fish in my store for about 4 months and up until this week have not had disease problems, well luck has run out and we finally received fish with obvious problems so time for quarantine tanks in the back. Here are my questions:
1.) Filtration - My budget is limited so I was planning to just use Hydrosponges here. The location for the tanks already has access to our air supply and is next to a floor drain and our saltwater mixer so maintenance should be relatively painless. Do you foresee any problems going this route?
<As long as there is not too total bio-load or changes in same... could work out. I would have a "back-up" plan... perhaps some ongoing pads, media in your display systems sumps that you can/could move over to the quarantine tanks>
2.) Tanks - not sure if I should go with few larger (75 gal) tanks and use dividers or smaller individual tanks. Any thoughts?
<Better to have both... some smaller for isolating big, mean organisms (e.g. triggers), and/or easygoing ones (e.g. grammas)... And a good idea to have at least two subsystems... one you can run copper, formaldehyde, what have you, along with differing spg, the other/s to keep near seawater conditions... for instance, for use with just isolating/observing invertebrates.>
3.) Substrate - Type? I can't stand bare bottom tanks.
<Get used to them... unless you are keeping burrowing animals (e.g. some wrasses), better to not have to compensate for the chemical changes the substrates present. These are working holding units, no focus of them being pretty. Do place chemically inert materials in them (polyethylene plants, PVC pipe, fittings) for psychological benefit (for the stock, not you)>
4.) Time - Seems most stores that quarantine their fish do anywhere from a few days to 2 weeks. What would you recommend?
<The same... a few days to "check out" what appear to be shaky animals... and a couple of weeks as routine, treatment for the general external parasite problems of tropical marines>
For some unknown reason most of our customers will not quarantine/dip their livestock despite my advise so I would like to give them the best chance for success.
<I hear that song refrain in the back of my head, "Same as it ever was", "Same as it ever... was". Some few, excellent stores, e.g. Aqua Touch in Phoenix, AZ, have lived through acculturating their customers to paying a bit more for their strict quarantine services/practices... You may be able to do the same... A few approach ideas here: flyers to put in all customers bags at checkout, post explaining your philosophy and institution there as to what your store does acclimation/quarantine wise... Steps to completion on how they might do the same and the rationale for it... Please do read through our site (WetWebMedia.com) both on the marine hobbyist root web and business Subweb re these issues... VERY important to understand what your options are, and make a clear, consistent distinction re your business practices.>
Any other comments/suggestions would be appreciated. Thanks for your input, Richard
<We'll be chatting, Bob Fenner>

RE: Fish Wholesalers
Hello again,
Sorry, this is a bit long.
<No worries, take your time>
First some store info. CB Pets, is a 2600 sq/ft full line pet store located
in Bulverde, TX. just north of San Antonio. Although a full line store our
emphasis is on fish and reptiles. Within those two categories we are trying
to specialize primarily in African cichlids and snakes although we do offer
a very good selection of community freshwater fish, other reptiles and
amphibians, and saltwater fish (no inverts due to our current setup). 
<I would add the latter with growing expertise, development of your customer base>
We
also offer dog & cat supplies, small animal supplies and a limited selection
of small animals( hamsters, gerbils, ferrets etc.). We have an unofficial
website at http://gvtc.com/~mao/cbpets/ .
<Very nice... that is a lot of Starbucks cups... and you folks own the building? Great!>
This is not our public site and is
really just something we played around with during store build out.
Our current sales after 7 months are ~20k per month and increasing about 1K
each month. 
<Outstanding>
I feel this is pretty good considering we have done limited
advertising and are not yet listed in any phone books.
<Do plan on at least "some" listing in these... not excessively large, expensive ones, but at least "this is who we are, what we do, where we're located, how to call us...">
The store is pretty
well stocked now and we are gaining new customers daily, primarily from word
of mouth.
<This is always best... and the only "real" way of building a retail trade in our interest>
So far our advertising attempts (newspaper ads/coupons, none
mailers etc.) have produced little return and most new customers say "My
friend told me about you...". We also get many compliments on the
cleanliness of the store and the health of our animals.
We are now also
beginning to completely win over quite a few customers who now say they
refuse to shop anywhere else. So we are doing a few things right, although
there is much room for improvement.
<The reality is that in helping/aiding "end-users", you're assuring their success... this is what drives your and our business... rest assured this is the case>
Our freshwater aquarium setup consists of 48 - 15 gal., 6 - 55gal. , and
54 - 20 gallon aquariums. Filtration is provided with blower and hydro
sponges as well as various power filters on some tanks (freebies from
reps.). This arrangement works well but is obviously time consuming from a
maintenance perspective, a more central system is on the wish list.
<I'll bet! My arms are a good two inches longer from hauling water, hoses about for years...>
Saltwater tanks are setup with Emperor power filters and UV sterilizers and
aragonite substrate. These tanks were originally intended to be primarily
for live plants but we went the saltwater route due to customer requests.
Not an ideal setup I know but has been working well.
<I would add a few plant systems... for display and retail... as time, money, space allows... always need, want to be "aiming" for future trends... as well as keeping yourself and other staff interested in what's new, novel>
As far as personal info, both my partner and myself have been hobbyists for
some 25 years each and I have always successfully kept a number of aquariums,
always African cichlids, SW Fish only, and full blown reef systems. I also
have kept and bred some 30 species of reptiles over the years and currently
maintain a collection of 42 reptiles. Professionally, both my business
partner and I come from the tech industry doing computer programming/support
work. Both got laid off at the same time so decided to give this a try. We
are definitely newbies to the industry.
<But thankfully are mature and have other and related field business experience...>
Okay back to fish losses:
Yes, I agree our acclimation procedures, or lack of them, for freshwater
fish may be the source of the problems with some fish. Currently, we just
open the fish boxes and let the bags sit unopened for 30 - 45 min then as
each bag is opened the fish are netted and placed into the tanks. 
<Yikes.... no... I do wish I could "wave a magic wand" and have what we all know collectively as part of everyone's' awareness... Perhaps you can/should visit with some other retailers (maybe by way of attending a trade show?) and gain knowledge of their practices here...>
Actually
this was recommended by Ekkwill when we made our initial fish order. They
did not recommend drips or slowly acclimating animals due to ph spikes,
increasing ammonia levels etc. We then add Quick Cure at 1 drop per 2
gallons for 2 days. This has worked very well for most types of fish and we
have few if any losses on cichlids, tetras, cats, Gouramis( with the
exception of dwarf Gouramis) and virtually no occurrence of ich, fungus, or
other visible parasitic type of problems.
The problem fish from Ekkwill and our current suppliers to a lesser extent)
are always the same. 
<Please detail what "these" are.>
I would like to point out first that with the exception
of some of the Ekkwill shipments I am not talking about massive losses. I
realize that zero losses is probably unrealistic, but I would like to try
and get there anyway. Also, many of these symptoms sound like water quality
issues but we are very diligent in our water changes and not overcrowding
tanks. The problem fish are:
1.)Livebearers(all types)- become generally weak looking, sometimes followed
by fin rot. Have tried adding salt to the water and treating with various
antifugals with no results.
2.)Goldfish - these usually look fine and are eating. Just find a dead one
or two every other day or so.
3.)dwarf Gouramis - these tend to eat well but will gradually become thinner
and die.
3.)rainbowfishes - no clue here - active, feeding, beautiful then dead.
4.)tiger & cherry barbs - several bouts with dropsy here, have not been
successful in treating with various antibiotics. Also have had a couple of
shipments where the tiger barbs have inflamed mouths and their mouths are
"stuck" wide open, I have no clue what this is but these always die quickly.
<Not uncommon occurrences... and I do have some suggestions for each/all:
1 and 2) for Livebearers and Goldfish, very often there are substantial losses going from pond breeding/rearing facilities to tanked conditions... particularly, declining, wildly vacillating water quality... you have mentioned having sponge filtration and no central (open, semi-open, recirculating) type of system... you need one with these fishes... at least during a week or two (sometimes more) quarantine, acclimation period (alternatively you should pay a "good" wholesaler/distributor for these fishes and NOT try to "bring them in" yourself... To "harden" them to their new captive conditions... by dripping in clean, new water, and flush out the crowded, polluted water they're housed in... I will make a specific product recommendation here as well: Jungle Shimmy Blocks... have these at recommended dosage in the systems at all times... feed sparingly, low-protein (high carbohydrate) foods during this time... Build and operate these subsystems in a back room where the fishes are not "spooked" by folks going by all the time... leave some low light on in the room at all times.
3) Dwarf Gouramis (and imported Far East Guppies if you deal in them), should be kept in soft, acidic water on arrival... and treated (in their food if they'll eat, in the water at 250 mg/10 gal. if not) with Neomycin Sulfate, replaced with a 50% water change every three days for three times... gradually adapted from then to your "normal" tap conditions. If they're "breaking down" (have cut marks, DOA's out of the bag, do a ten minute (with aeration) dip in Furacyn or furanace (one capsule per two gallons) dip/bath, then on to the previous protocol.
4) For Rainbows, run them in the "open system" for a week or two with heavy aeration, a drip-replacement rate of about the system per day being flushed out, AND attach automatic feeders to their tanks to provide them small amounts of food ten, fifteen times a day... in addition to your checking on, feeding them by hand.
5) The barbs (and Danios, Razors, sharks which likely have the same difficulties at times) need to be "flushed out" in a semi-open system... and "shipped better". Do contact whoever you are getting these fishes from and inform the people of the symptoms you list... and on arrival, do your best to match (within 0.1 pH "point") the acidity of the shipping water... and gradually (no more than 0.1 per day) allow this to rise to your tap reading/condition.
I have read your Guerilla Acclimation Procedures and will give them a try.
Thank you in advance for your comments/suggestions.
Richard
<Sorry this is a bit long. And likely not too clear. Do write back for clarification, expansion on any point. I do encourage you to convert your store to recirculating, semi-open systems (independent for marine inverts., fishes....) and to EITHER build out and adopt the isolation, treatment protocols suggested above (ones that you work out for your setting) OR to skip bringing in your own livestock and buy from more local suppliers... Similar to the reasons you have for producing much of your own herp.s... Quality, determinate quantity, control over parasite, feeding, other health issues...
Be chatting my friends, Bob Fenner>