Hawaiian Fish Exporters
<Perry, Dave, I chatted with the three principal collecting companies owner/operators on the Big Island and two of the three sounded like they might like to do business with you. 
Do contact Jeff at Island Marine Exports 808-329-1898
or Steve/Mr. Fish at 808-334-0123
and maybe the folks at Yankee Divers 808-329-3125
Of these folks I know Steve the best to be honest and have consistently good quality... he has a very nice self-made holding system, catches and processes his own livestock.
Hope this helps. Bob Fenner>

Giant clam source
Dear Sir/Madam,
<Hello to you>
We are from SongNam Co., LTD in Vietnam. Our company specializes in supplying  kinds of Tridacna, Crocea, Maxima, Squamosa..that have two main colors :green& blue. Besides we have a lot of Marine Fishes, Soft Corals anemone, live rock, sea-star &trifling-coral-Trifling-coralish used to filter water in tank At present We have a large farm to be located in a Island. We can supply them with the large quantity, beautiful color &strong. If you need to buy them, please contact us by mail: info@songnamco.com
Best wishes to you
<Thank you for your note. Will share, post on WetWebMedia.com. Bob Fenner>
Huy Khanh

LFS looking for Bali corals - 3/30/04 
Hi, I was contemplating starting my own LFS, <Good on ya!> and I was interested in carrying those Bali Aquacultured SPS heads. <Ooooh, wanting to enter the fray, eh? Well, this Bali coral fad is becoming a big deal, limited stock and CITES permits seems to limit the export of these corals lately. LFS' starting to fight over the limited available animals not to mention guarding their sources as if they were gold. The only place I know that seems to get regular shipments of corals from Bali and Jakarta is here: http://www.golden-ina.com/index.html> Do you know who I can contact to see what costs would be for such an endeavor? <Start with Golden Ina. I am sure there are many others but I am finding it very difficult to ascertain if the corals are indeed truly from Bali and the numbers/email of the wholesale dealers. If I hear any more I will be sure to post it in our forums and on the FAQs. Bob? Anything to add here? ~Paul> Thank you. Lawrence Lau

Goldfish exporter 4/1/04
Dear Sir,
We are very happy to write to you. From the Internet we know your company. And we sincerely want to establish the trade relations with you.
This is Beijing Pet Company in China.
Our company involves in exporting koi and various kinds of goldfish including Oranda, fantail, moor, butterfly, Ryukins, bubble eye, shubunkin, comet, etc.
We have established many business relations with different clients all over the world, especially in Europe, north and south America as well as in Asia such as Japan. With top quality products, satisfying service, high reputation and complete certificates authorized by Chinese government, we have been trading with our clients successfully for more than 15 years.
Hope you will be interested in our company. If you like, we are very glad to send you the price list, stock list, freight rate and other useful information.
Our telephone number is 0086-10-80495307 and fax number is 0086-10-80496555, also you can send emails to contact us.
Thanking you for your kind attention and looking forward to hearing from you in the near future !
  <Will post on WetWebMedia.com. Bob Fenner>
Best wishes,
Yang Changhai (General manager) beijingpet@hotmail.com

Nigerian fish source 
To All - 
I was visited by Alfred Olorunlona recently, a Nigerian who brought be a fish price list and is trying to develop a fish exporting station business in Nigeria. He is seeking American markets for large quantities. You may wish to contact him directly to discuss how he works these deals and whether he can get additional species. I would greatly appreciate any feedback from people, perhaps by copying me on your email exchanges. This looks like a nice opportunity to bring in new stocks. Note that imports are notoriously off the mark on species identifications, so what are listed here might in part be previously unknown species. I think this is worth pursuing, and would like to know how you fare. 
Please pass this on to other aquarium groups. - Bob Goldstein 
<Robert, does Mr. Olaniran have an email address or URL or even physical address he wants to send along for our posting or referral? Bob Fenner, WetWebMedia>
Thank you!!

A question concerning ethical wholesalers
Dear crew,
<Hi there>
thanks for all of your support over the years. I have become so successful at keeping SPS etc., I am launching my own internet based business! And yes, I will be contacting you guys to place a banner on your site shortly (working on the site now).
<Yay!>
I wanted to ask what wholesalers Calfo and Fenner would recommend, I don't want to use a wholesaler that condones unethical collection practices. I am considering the following (whoever I use I need access to quality SPS)- The first two are my topic picks
<Okay>
Pacific Aqua Farms
Underwater world
Golden Ina
Sea Dwelling Creatures
Quality Marine
ERI
<Most likely... are PAF, UWW, SDC and Quality... are honest and competently run. Don't know the folks at Golden well, and ERI, eh, you can check their reputation elsewhere.>
Thanks, I appreciate any recommendations you can make!
Tom
<Anthony's out of town, touch for a few days, but will put your query in his in-box for response later. Bob Fenner>

A question concerning ethical wholesalers II
Anthony, thanks a million for your reply (and Bob's too).
<always welcome, my friend>
I did check with Aqua Marine, unfortunately I may be locked out because of exclusivity in Richmond, even though I wont be retailing locally, just on the net. Do you perhaps know of anyone else that performs a similar function?
<indeed... do consult the online yellow pages... seek an established aquarium service professional... these chaps often do fish-picking too and they are at the wholesalers weekly for their own biz usually. Going rate is about 10% of the total order cost. An extra $100 on a $1,000 order is well worth it when you see the quality of livestock picked by your trained professional rather than the random items picked by minimum wage workers>
Its a shame because I am looking for precisely what they have.
Thanks again, Tom
<no worries... best of luck. Anthony>

Re: A question concerning ethical wholesalers
Anthony and Bob thanks a million for the help:
I am not trying to be a pain in the @#$ (  :), I was wondering if Bob might have any recommendations as well on suppliers or pickers that I can trust. I am looking for rare colorful SPS, ricos, zoos, clams, inverts etc. (but not so rare they shouldn't be collected!!!!) out of the usual Bali, Tonga, Hawaii, but also looking for Vanuatu, Japan, Micronesia, etc.  (looking to establish online presence with high volume (of course) and a long term relationship with a supplier preferably, but a jobber or picker would work as well).
Unfortunately due to an exclusivity agreement with a LFS, Aqua Marine can't sell to me (RATS!!) I don't mind paying a little more as long as I know I will quality (as Anthony suggested!). I noticed in some of the prior correspondences with other WWM users that you would BCC various individuals in the biz and would like to ask if you don't mind, if you could for me.  
Once again thanks!! I will be sponsoring your page as soon as I get a site here (in the next two weeks, all I am missing is stock), and will include a link to your site if you don't mind as you guys are priceless to this hobby.
Tom
<Tom, I will ask around next time I am in L.A.. Unfortunately I don't know well-enough any of the selection services/personnel to give them an endorsement of sorts. Do you know of folks outside your retail area that you might ask who they use? Lastly, I might ask the same key question very-openly on the bulletin boards/Net... like Reefs.org and see who you hear about. Lastly, knowing what little I do, I would trust the "general services" of Quality Marine, Sea Dwelling Creatures and Pacific Aquafarms... Bob Fenner>

Coral frag Business, looking for commercial importer
Dear Mr. Robert Fenner,
<Gunawan>
Allow me to introduce our company, PT Pura Baruna Lestari, We are the commercially - operated coral transplantation farm in Indonesia. Here we grow corals on our ocean-based farm
We are located in island of Sambangan, it's part of Karimunjawa  islands - northwest of Jepara, Central-Java, Indonesia. Sambangan island is a solitary, ± 10 hectare-island along with the two other island, Genting and Seruni forming a wide lagoon. Sambangan waters is still pure, clear and unpolluted, make it an ideal place for marine life cultivation. Currently we're cultivating various species  of coral, among them are Acropora sp., Montipora sp. and Pocillopora sp. in more than 30 subspecies in various colors. We're also cultivating various types of giant clams (Tridacna and Hippopus), which would be available by early 2005.
<Sounds good>
Now, we have coral frag ready for sale. Can you help me to look for USA importer. For more information can visit our website :
www.aquamarinefarm.com
<Will gladly introduce you to potential business associates here. I am bcc'ing a few here in the hopes they will contact you>
Thank you for your help and best regard
Gunawan
PT Pura Baruna Lestari
<Hope to visit your operation in future. Bob Fenner>\

Survey says! Your response please 2/04
Hello Mr. Fenner,
Ryan Bowen just dropped me quick note (see below) regarding a survey we are conducting. He suggested that you may be willing to post a note about the survey to encourage participation.
<Will post>
The survey is intended for saltwater aquarium hobbyists. We want to determine how production and marketing decisions (e.g., wild-caught vs. tank-bred; price; "arrive alive, stay alive" guarantees; "reef safe" assurances) affect purchasing decisions.
If you are willing to post an invitation about the survey. The survey start page can be found at:
http://agsurveys.org/hobby
There is a formal invitation letter there with further details. The survey site will be open until Wednesday, February 25th at noon EST. The preliminary results will be presented next week at the Marine Ornamentals '04 conference in Honolulu.
Thanks for your time,
Sherry
<No worries. Bob Fenner>
***************************************************
Sherry Larkin, Assistant Professor
Food and Resource Economics
Institute of Food and Agricultural Sciences
PO Box 110240
University of Florida
Gainesville, FL  32611-0240
(352)392-1845x431
slarkin@ufl.edu
fax:(352)392-3646
***************************************************
Hello!
My name is Ryan Bowen, I just took your survey.  
I write for a company called wetwebmedia.com, we answer lots of questions regarding saltwater setups.  
We have high traffic for such a site, and I believe that if you wrote Bob Fenner (Site owner, admin)(Crew@wetwebmedia.com) a quick email he'd be happy to post your survey.  We are all big fans of aquacultured and maricultured livestock, and recommend it daily.  
Good luck,
Ryan Bowen

Shipping boxes?
Crew, can any of you refer me to a West Coast vendor of EPS foam tropical fish shipping boxes with cardboard boxes?
Thanks, Suzanne Hathcock
<Do you need just a few? Am Bcc'ing friends/associates in the trade in the L.A. area hoping they will respond to you (am out in HI right now, w/o my ref.s). Bob Fenner>

Re: shipping boxes?
p.s. perhaps I should have mentioned that I'm near Portland, OR.
<Yes... do check with any local wholesaler of live aquatics re where they get their boxes from... Do you need other supplies like bags, clip machines... maybe the FTFFA could help here. Bob Fenner>

Re: shipping boxes?
hi Bob and thanks for your response.
<You're welcome>
Most suppliers I've talked to have a minimum order. For example, one yesterday in Florida, had a minimum of 160 small boxes. But in that case, the shipping from Florida was going to run as much as the boxes themselves.
<Yes... if you only need a few boxes you should either buy them from a local source or co-op ("piggy-back") a shipment with someone>
While I'm prepared to buy that many, I would prefer to be able to buy -- for example -- 75 of one size and 50 of another. Such an approach would give me greater flexibility while minimizing storage space requirements.
Originally I had planned to use Airliner inflatable packages from www.cargotech.com to minimize my storage needs. However, I've started to hear that some of the large LA shippers have stopped using them because of leakage problems. Have you heard anything about them?
Suzanne
<Never heard of them... Maybe I should ask what you are intending to ship. Bob Fenner>

Re: shipping boxes?
> <Yes... if you only need a few boxes you should either buy them from a local source or co-op ("piggy-back") a shipment with someone>
So far I've neither found a local source nor anyone else who buys these boxes. Most LFSs have huge supplies of wholesaler boxes that they recycle.
However, as a 25+ year graphic designer, I'm trying to come up with a more polished, professional appearance for my packaging. Besides my livestock, it will be the only tangible, visible representation of my company other than my web site that a customer will receive.
<Mmm, many folks use the cardboard outside as the "billboard", other than the Styro. These (the cardboard liners) can be made, printed locally perhaps>
I'm going to be selling corals and inverts online -- and books by famous authors such as yourself -:) Having bought lots of marine animals online myself, I can say that the professional appearance of packaging from LiveAquaria.com or Sea Dwelling Creatures lends a great deal of credibility to the company's image -- much more so than an obviously recycled cardboard box stuffed with slices of Styrofoam duct taped together as I've received from other dealers.
Suzanne
<Sounds good. Bob Fenner>

Re: shipping boxes?
> <Mmm, many folks use the cardboard outside as the "billboard", other than the Styro. These (the cardboard liners) can be made, printed locally perhaps>
That part's no problem. In fact, I was well on the way to having boxes printed to fit the inflatable Airliner packaging when I learned that it had fallen out of favor.
<I see>
Apparently the companies that make EPS foam boxes sell them with the cardboard boxes, in which case I could just do a nice custom mailing label.
This would be ideal for just starting out until I get a better fix on what sizes of boxes I'll need most often.
<Sounds good>
Gotta resolve this soon, because the longer my livestock sits around, the more I fall in love with all the corals and don't want to sell them!!!
By the way, one of your crew helped me with a sick fish problem awhile back... elevated nitrite. After numerous water changes with no drop in nitrites, I finally figured out that the water coming from my RO unit was contaminated (I'm a little slow). My brother-in-law who has a water filtration business suggested flushing it periodically with peroxide.
<Good idea... safe and effective. Bob Fenner>
Suzanne

Importing fishes UK 2/5/04
Hello,
<howdy>
hope you don't mind helping me - if you can with a few more queries I have about my marine fish?
<ready as always>
well I recently (2 weeks ago) received a shipment of marines from Singapore. I had 3 Copperband butterflies come (Which were subs) . I acclimatized them for a long period then let them go in their tank - all together, now these are the only inhabitants to the tank (other than 1 small blue damsel). I put the 3 together - and so far have not seen any aggression - maybe sometimes the slight flare up to each other- but no pecking or biting. all three fish
are feeding on brine shrimp and from whole cockles in shells - which I was quite amazed at as I have always seen this species as doomed once out of the ocean - unless in a very mature reef tank-
<not doomed, just delicate and commonly mishandled from some locales>
anyway , my question -over the past two days I have noticed a change in colour, their bands don't seem as bright, and their colouration, seems a little overall dull - not bleached
out - but not the vibrant colours you would expect - but water quality is high, 0nitrite and ammonia etc, all are feeding, none are being harassed - maybe a slight bickering between each other - which is to be expected - I thought that they would chase each other constantly! do you have any ideas what's causing this - should I be alarmed?
<its a general symptom... could be pale from bare glass bottom of tanks, light reflections, and most likely to some extent... the awful (barren) brine shrimp component of their diet (they will starve to death on it... please replace ASAP... Mysid shrimp would be nice)>
the other thing was, I am due a shipment from Hawaii, hopefully next week 9 it was cancelled last week as there has been bad weather from xmas island ??? and fish could net be collected??) so hopefully it will arrive this week - I have ordered the following
5x yellow sailfin tangs
5x flame angels
1x lemon peel angel
1x potters angel
<Hmmm... please do resist buying these angels unless you have/are a specialist. They make Copperbands look like hardy damsels <G>>
1x yellow eye Kole tang
1xtrumpet fish
I will house all the yellow tangs together on their own, the other single angels in their own, foot cube tank (which is on a system) but what I was wondering was your view on keeping the flame angels in a group?
<some aggression quite likely>
I have seen this done in a shop before - big group all together in the same tank - but do you think 5 would spark aggression?
<yes>
the tank they will go into would house no other fish - just them and a bit of decor? what are your thoughts?
<I suspect you need a much larger holding system (many more tanks) to succeed (your profits and their lives) as an importer>
if not it is possible for me to house them individually with other fish, would you think I could mix a flame with a potters angel?
<ughhh...no>
or do you think the colours are too similar and the potters being a little delicate that it might be a bad idea?
<this is a small order my friend. If you cannot house each of these fishes individually, I do not see how you are doing any justice here. It really sounds like you need a proper holding system>
another quick question - do you know of, or heard of use of drugs and poisons to collect fish from Sri Lanka? do you think this is a safe destination to source from?
<the quality is unpredictable due to the limited flights/times from Sri Lanka. The fishes are collected properly to the best of my knowledge>
the last fish I received were from Singapore - these being of very good quality - with 99% survival  
<that is exceptional>
- loosing only 1 fish - which to be fare was a bit squashed in the bag - and all these fish are feeding well - where, other than the us ( because of limited species) do you think it is best to source from, I have been offered Sri Lanka, Singapore, Indonesia, Hawaii, Miami and brazil from my consoler, I have sourced from Sri Lanka and Singapore as well as Miami with mixed success -
where do you feel is the best place - all Miami stock has done well, and most Singapore, Sri Lanka, depends some shipments are very good, others not so, this is why I ask about the use of chemicals.
<I would honestly like to know more about your facility (size/capabilities/pics) before helping you import more animals, with all due respect>
also I want to import coral next time, where do you suggest to order from? sorry its a lot again! thanks in advance, kind regards,
Sam Baker
<Sam... please don't take this the wrong way, but you sound like you have a home-based business. Your questions/problems have all of the earmarks of it. If not, you worry me if this is a small bricks biz. Your enthusiasm may be getting ahead of yourself. If I didn't mention it before, let me encourage you to subscribe to industry trade magazines, and definitely attend regional and national trade conferences. That way you can network and glean advice from other business folk like you as to what are the best sources to your country. We are limited in ability here from the US to give the UK advice on such matters when we have no experience with the challenges/nuances of your shipping channels (flights, common delays, etc). Anthony>

Making Connections in South Africa
Hi Bob, 
<Shaun> 
Well greetings from Sunny South Africa!! 
<Salutations from Hawai'i> 
Bob I am looking for your assistance, I am an importer of marine livestock in SA, I am based in Durban. 
<We have a good friend who has lived with us a dozen years who lived for fifteen in Swaziland> 
I import from most countries, but find it hard to get from the countries that you guys in the states are able to get stock from like Fiji, Tonga and 
a lot of the South pacific islands. 
<Perhaps the airlines are a factor...?> 
Countries we have good connections with are the Asia countries like Singapore and Indonesia, Philippines and therefore have suppliers there. 
<I see> 
Matt Silvester, suggested that you would be able to assist with some additional suppliers details in countries like Vietnam, Thailand etc. 
<Okay> 
If you know of any suppliers please can you drop me a line 
Regards 
Shaun Grant 
www.duraquatics.co.za 
<As is my habit, I will BCC friends, associates in the trade here and ask that they contact you if interested. Have you checked with the OFI? Their list of members? Bob Fenner>

Wholesale startup...
Hi folks,
<Hello>
I'm wondering if anyone can guide me in the right direction on what I need to prep for a wholesale start-up for tropical fishes (fresh and salt), corals and live rocks, on the legal side? I currently reside in California and I need to find out what's legal or illegal to import.  Also, there might be some restriction on livestock from certain countries and the like. Any input is appreciated. Thanks in advance...
<Whoa! There is MUCH to learn... and confluent with my "working philosophy" of offering help "appropriately" I/we need to not start "en media res" (in the middle of things)... there are other critical (as in deadly) aspects of this potential venture to know well... other than the legal side (there are laws, CITES, forms-a-plenty to fill out for import, often from exporting countries), but relationships to build (there are crooks in our trade, incompetents, non-A players... to sort through, discover, befriend)... What is your background in the industry? Do you have time to work for someone else for a few months? I WOULD NOT continue forward w/o this valuable experience (I won't be party to helping you fail, but will gladly introduce you to friends who are "doing what you want to do"). Bob Fenner>

Re: wholesale startup...
Bob,
<Steve>
Thanks a bunch for your prompt reply and invaluable advice. I apologize for not being able to get back any sooner... Back to the subject, I don't intend to do this "big" at all...
<Let's continue this conversation in a broad manner (for posterity, others edification). There is no way to "do this not big"... there is a severe "economy of scale" working against small-timers... the net-landed cost of small shipments (less than LD-3's) is enormously more per shipment, per organism... you won't be able to compete unless you can justify the one-shot costs of paperwork, CITES, the freight cost per kilo at container, 500 kilo rates...>
I'm really thinking of running this setup at home (garage or something), with a 3 - 5 hundred gallon reef setup. I happen to know some foreign suppliers who can get me great prices on live stock and rocks.
<We would need to define "great"... you'll soon find that there are many hidden and opportunity costs to "bringing in your own" livestock>
I only intend to be a supplier of LFS around my neighborhood. Only thing to sort out really are the logistics of import/export.
<I hope you have patience... for missed, delayed flights... and plenty of capital>
I 'm currently checking with California Fish & Game,  Food and Agriculture and USDA, especially for species that are protected and prohibited...Do you see any issue here?
<No real issue with the State, Fed.s... the real issues are human in general... as you will soon fully realize. Good luck my friend. Bob Fenner>
Thanks in advance for your time in this...

Importing livestock into Singapore
A person importing freshwater or marine ornamental fish into Singapore is required to be licensed by the Agri-Food & Veterinary Authority of Singapore (AVA). Thereafter, each consignment of fish must be declared and approved by the AVA before importation. However AVA allows each traveler to import not more than 50 pieces of ornamental fish (non-endangered & non-restricted species) in not more than 3 litres of packing water from overseas as part of one's carry-on luggage for personal keeping without applying for an import license or approval. The traveler should declare the fishes brought in to the Customs upon entering Singapore.
If you still have any further queries on import of ornamental fish, please do not hesitate to contact me at Tel: 6751 9809. Regards.

Buying corals wholesale 12/29/03
I have just discovered your site recently and learned a lot from it.  I myself have been a reefer for 8-9 years now.  To get to the point.  I have been getting coral out of Indonesia through Petsiam International and was wondering why you recommend getting them from Fiji .The shipments I get from Indo usually come in very nice with a surprisingly low mortality rate.  My usual mortalities usually come from airlines crushed boxes half froze etc..  I was wondering price quality shipping costs.  The corals I do buy I hold for about two weeks before selling them. If it is price and quality can you recommend some where a small wholesaler can buy from {400-700dollar minimum orders}.  me and my wife have a small operation 500 tanks mostly all freshwater dealing with small stores but slowly expanding. Any help or insight would help
Thank you, Nathan Poyner P.S. keep up the excellent work on the site.
<the difference is significant, my friend. Although you have had some good fortune getting few/small shipments from Indo... the overwhelming majority of dealers throughout the US do not have the same success/flight patterns, connections (or not) and conditions (time/temp) of transit as you do. And after you have been in the business long enough and handled enough volume (tens of thousands of pieces), the difference will be clear. Mortality and poor handling practices from Indo eliminate them as an option for most anybody that does not live near Los Angeles (the closest/best legal port of entry). All others really should consider other options like Fiji or simply buying from a wholesaler that tanks/QTs their specimens and have a good facility. This is the best use of a living resource if you will participate in the biz successfully and responsibly. Do find a good wholesaler in LA area like AM Aquatics (AM4fish.com). Best of luck, Anthony>

Invert exporter in the Philippines 12/16/03
Good Morning Bob
<Howdy>
I was looking through your archives and found a mention of an exporter in the Philippines looking for importers.  It was called DNB Aquatics, and Fe Baskin is the owner.  Have you got a contact number or email address you can pass along?
<Unfortunately no. We don't retain email addys, and his business doesn't show up in the "Buyer's Guide" issues... or the O.F.I. member directory...>
We've got a small importing company here in Canada and  I'm looking for an exporter specializing in inverts from the Philippines.   I've tried one other company based out of Cebu for inverts but would to see what this company can offer.  Any help is appreciated.
Best Regards
Anne
<Maybe Fe will see this and respond in turn... or another company. Would you like to list a means for them to contact you? Bob Fenner>

Re: starting up a store
<<Cheers, Matthew... Anthony Calfo below you in Pennsylvania following up with Bob's cc here>>
>  Also, we are located in Connecticut, and over the years I have become very friendly with some local shops, but still am not totally certain as to what method I want to go about stocking my tanks.  My concern is that I want to stock the tanks by reducing the stress on the fish as much as possible.  By any chance, would you know of any good local fisheries or markets in the Connecticut area that are easily accessible to a starting business?
> <Unfortunately no. But will ask Anthony here if he is familiar with any, and will post on WWM in the hope someone will respond>
<<several points to make here... briefly regarding your intent to reduce stress of initial stocking of tanks, do be sure to use a generous amount of cured live rock for invertebrate tagged marine systems...
and for fish only marine and freshwater filters, perhaps consider "supercharging" them in advance with Ammonium Chloride. Its inexpensive and easy to do...
easy to manipulate too - it will let you start a seeded biological filter and race it up to a strong colony just prior to stocking with fishes. I recall seeing Moe describe it in his classic Marine Aquarium References... and am sure recipes exist for it on the Net. It really is as simple as it (might) sound:
feeding a bunch of ammonia to a filter prior to putting it online for a fish load.
As to the regional suppliers... you have some challenges here. If you don't have direct flights (and I suspect not) to your nearest airport from Los Angeles, then you will be at least slightly compromised as to the quality and availability of livestock you can get. I would strongly suggest you get a jobber (fish picker) here to select your orders on site in LA from the best available stock. The other challenge is that there are no significant
distributors of wholesale marines in our region until you get down to New York and New Jersey. And frankly, they are not that good IMO. You would be better served by getting product first hand from the primary port of entry for most US marine tropicals: Los Angeles. With that said, you might also look into a Chicago supplier (there are several... like A-Pet) if you can get better flights to CT than from LA.
And has Bob has suggested... please start shopping the trade shows to get your feet wet and to network. We have the HH Backer Shows in Atlantic City and Chicago twice yearly. Also subscribe to a trade magazine like Pet Business or Pet Age to begin or finish your business plan. And last of all... be sure to write that business plan! Your chance at success will be greatly improved. Make your life easy and purchase some software like Business Plan Pro to do this. Some local business schools also often offer free counsel to local small business for start-up (classes and consultations... help writing biz plans, etc).
Best of luck, Anthony>
<Thank you Antoine. Bob>

From selling fish to selling a lifestyle by Alexis Hooi 
AS THE world's top exporter of ornamental fish, it takes just one day for Singapore dealers to deliver their products to any one of 80 countries. But Singapore's exporters, who have a 24 per cent share of the world market worth $300 million annually, are not taking it easy. They aim to increase this share and a new business group has been formed, bringing together exporters, government agencies and university researchers. Initiated by the Agri-Food and Veterinary Authority of Singapore (AVA), the Ornamental Fish Business Cluster Group is chaired by Mr. Kenny Yap, 38, managing director of a major player, Qian Hu Corporation. Its 15 other members include International Enterprise Singapore, National University of Singapore, Nanyang Technological University and Spring Singapore. Speaking at the opening of the four-day ornamental fish and aquarium accessories show, or Aquarama 2003, at the Singapore Expo yesterday, Minister of State for National Development and Trade and Industry Vivian Balakrishnan said businesses need to be proactive and not leave things to market forces alone. 'The industry must do more than just sell the fish, plants, tanks and accessories. It must sell a lifestyle.' That is exactly what the group proposes to do. It is currently looking into all aspects of the industry, said vice-chairman Ling Kai Huat, 50. Apart from technologies to improve the harvesting and packaging of fish, breeding, fish-health management and water-quality control will also be studied. There are also plans to develop more extensive certification programmes to train those in the business. Dr Ling, who is also head of AVA's Aquaculture Services Centre, said: 'Our main role is to reinforce Singapore as the top ornamental fish exporter of the world. We want to build the Singapore brand in this area.' Mr. Yap added: 'The ideal situation is to bring people to an environment where they can experience the activity and learn from there. Hopefully we can have an academy of ornamental fish, or something close to that.'  IP Address:192.169.41.171This message was forwarded to you from Straits Times Interactive (http://straitstimes.asia1.com.sg) 

Looking for industry contacts, specifically Dave Palmer
Hello Dr Fenner,
<Just Bob please, I have no doctorate degree or pretense to that title>
this is Almarzouqi who talked to you in the phone a month ago and I'm the founder of NCPARS.COM (north central pa aquarium reef society) I was searching the net for contact information about transship companies and was looking for any contacts from Jakarta, Solomon island, Hawaii, marshal island and came across article and replies that you have to other people. I would like to know if you know anybody or have any contact that will be interested to ship corals and fish to east coast once a week or once every two week in a big quantity?
<Yes, a few. I will BCC them here in hopes they will contact you>
I have came across Dave Palmer's name and could not find any contact info and he is the one who gets Solomon island.
<Now in Los Angeles. You may call him at 310-406-1235>
  Any info you will give me will be appreciated and will help me a lot with my project that hope will be one of the big projects in east coast. I will be traveling to Middle east, Asia soon to get some work from there and I'm also working with Oman and the UAE to set a station there.  I did not want to call you pass 9 pm eastern time as I did not know what time is your bed time and hope to hear from you soon.
Thanks ahead
Almarzouqi
<Be chatting, Bob Fenner>

Hey Dr. Fenner,
This is Dr. Smith here. You have given this guy my home number. Dave's business number for PAF is 310 215 3474.
Yikes!
Cheers,
Walt
<Yowzah! Thanks. Will amend my ways and this number. Bob>

Livestock Contacts Intl.
Dear Bob,
good to hear from you. I found Dave Palmer a week ago and got 10 boxes of corals and fish from him to start on Saturday. I will appreciate if you can help me find some contacts with Bali, Jakarta, Kupang, Vietnam and other areas.  I know that you have good contacts and Dave was very nice and so his helper Sylvia. Thanks ahead..
Yours Almarzouqi
<I will send out your request to others in the industry here as I usually do, that is Bcc'ed so that they can volunteer individually if interested. Bob Fenner>

Fish collecting business
Hi,
I have been in search on information about a new business I have in mind and since I found your website I have been able to find a lot of valuable information. I will planning on starting a fish collecting business in west Africa. I know I am faced with a lot of challenges. My plan is to setup my facility, begin collection and have the facility running for a few months before I start sourcing wholesalers.
<Actually, I would start this last right now. A very good idea to "go to this step" now in determining who you will sell to, what they are willing to pay, how they want to and can be shipped to (airfreight carriers, CITES, Customs, forwarders...), concurrent with your giving them some idea of what you have available. It may well be that these same folks can/will help you in gathering tools, materials, maybe even personnel to build out your collecting station and gear for shipping livestock>
I am also thinking of breeding some of the local species and hoping that down the road I will be able to rely more on aquaculture for fish I supply.
<... this is an entirely different business... much time, facilities, many hours involved in making a go... Do you have partner/s in this endeavor already? You will need at least one if you intend to do both collecting and aquaculture, plus employees>
Well my question is a business like this still viable in today pet industry and would it be difficult to find wholesalers willing to buy.
<Depends on what you have, can get, the pricing AND airfreight cost and availability... and even if your country's government will allow it. Do you know of existing businesses of your type that are in operation currently? I strongly encourage your talking with, visiting them... even working with/for them for a while>
Is there any article that will answer some of the questions I might have.
Thanks
Dayjee
<Welcome to our industry. I can and will help you if you'd like. By answering your general queries, introducing you about to some of the players in international markets. At this point, do you have a good idea of what sorts of livestock you will have available, in what numbers (sustainably)... how you're going to hold and ship them... to which countries? Bob Fenner>

Re: fish collecting business
Thanks Mr. Fenner, for your response. would you happen to have anyone in the northeast that I could talk to.
Dayjee
<Mmm, not off hand. Is it possible for you to visit locations where collecting is a business. Maybe Hawai'i? Bob Fenner>

Looking for some exporter info for Mexico
Bob,
I have come across your name a number of times and was hoping you made be able to help.  I am looking for a source in Mexico who is able to export Turbo Snails in large quantities.  Let me know if you can help.  Thanks in advance.
Dave
<Mmm, do contact Leroy Headlee of G.A.R.F. re this: http://www.garf.org/
Bob Fenner>

Florida Ricordea
Hello,
       I am hoping you can answer my question or at least guide me in the right direction. I am looking for a wholesaler that sales Ricordea. I am looking to buy several polyps to start a propagation system solely for as many different colors of Ricordea I can possibly find. Any help in locating one will be greatly appreciated.
<I'd give Dick Perrin at Tropicorium, http://www.tropicorium.com/ a call/visit. Bob Fenner>

Amazon tropical fish and stingrays from Venezuela
Dear Sirs.: We are a Venezuelan company established 10 years ago dedicated to the exportation of Amazon Tropical fishes and fresh water stingrays. In the past years our markets involved Germany, Japan and some cities of North-East of the United States of America, with an excellent record.
Now, we are in disposition to present to your prestige company our great selection of Amazon fishes and our special stingrays of fresh water (wild caught).
We are delivering in our commitment in sending the best quality, healthiest and beautiful fishes in the market and a constant wide range of species.
We are dedicated to offer our customers an excellent service and prompt replies. After all, this is a long-term business relationship we are trying to make.
Please, send us an e-mail and we will talk how we can do business together.
Thank you for your time.
Sincerely yours,
Rafael E. Cárdenas
<We aren't directly involved in the trade (that is commercially), but can/will post your message, URL (if you have a website), or e-address on WetWebMedia.com's aquatics business subweb if you'd like. Please send along the information you want posted. Bob Fenner>

All Seas (LA)
Dear Bob,
Do you have ALL SEA MARINE contact number or email address? I just can't find them on net.
<They have no net address or email contact. Their number in Torrance (California) is 310-532-7769, fax 324-5501. Ask for Ted or Edwin Chua. Bob Fenner>
Thank you.
Cheers,
Charles

Imports
Hi Guys.
<Hello Steve>
Love reading your site and following the links....wish we had something here in the UK like WWM.
<Start one>
Anyhow, I am involved with a company called Acropora House with a specialization in SPS corals, Live Rock and of course marine fishes.
<I see>
We are looking to expand our supply base to bring in direct imports from Hawaii, Marshall Islands and Fiji/Bali.
<Okay>
We are looking to buy 1500kg - 3000Kg + of Live Rock per time and bring in SPS corals and fish as well. I have been speaking with Waterlife Fiji (do you know of them) but was kinda hoping you might have a contact in Hawaii , Marshall Islands or someone else out Fiji/Bali way who you might recommend. I have tried to get hold of Walt Smith Inc. via email but no reply to date. If not do you know of a European transhipper that might wanna get involved. We are looking for quality livestock products.....not just the cheapest.
Hope you can be of assistance.
<Do you belong to the OFI? You might use their member list, resources to contact folks who could help you. I have Bcc'ed several friends, associates in the trade, including Walt Smith. I am hoping that some will follow-up here and contact you. Bob Fenner>
Regards and Best Wishes
Steve Tope

Re: Imports
Hi Bob
<Steve>
Many thanks for your reply. We have a couple of sites here for Marine Enthusiasts but none so quite as in depth as WWM. I hope on our new website that we will have a few links.......can we post yours up as one ??
<Absolutely>
OFI..........no we are not members/ don't belong. We are a newish company. I will try and find a link and go about researching.
<Take a look at/through their site: http://www.ornamental-fish-int.org/ especially the Member's Directory by country>
Thanks for Bcc'ing people you know. If any should get in contact, I will let you know and pass on our thanks. We struggle here in the UK as we are not mainland Europe or the States so kinda get overlooked by a lot of people even though the marine industry is big business.
<Not for long>
Thanks for your help
<Glad to be of assistance. Bob Fenner>
Steve Tope

Golden Generation Inc 
Hi Bob,
Do you have Golden Generation Inc website and email address? Tried to find but unsuccessful.
<Have been there (LA) and talked with them... but can't find their address or number at the office or on the Net. Are they still in business? Bob Fenner>
Thank you.
Cheers,
Stephen

UK Startup Dealer - 8/16/03
dear sir do you know of any one who can assist me in setting up a small import business of captive bred soft corals, I am mainly after importers addresses and phone numbers thanking you in anticipation of your help mark
<From America, I'm not sure how best we can help you short of direction for you to find a trade magazine (in the US we have "Pet Business" and "Pet Age/Pet Supplies Marketing") or journal (or even contact PIJAC the industry lobbyist organization in your country). Please do browse the many links we have for aquatic business starting from the homepage at www.wetwebmedia.com. Also, be sure to make a business plan for yourself. Seek software like Business Plan Pro perhaps. Most businesses fail that do not write a plan. Best of luck. Anthony>

Import of Ornamental fish
Dear Bob,  
It was great joy reading yr forum and I realized that I need to write to you regarding about importing of ornamental fishes.  I hope that with your contacts in this industry, you can help me with the following;
I need contacts for reliable exporters from Hawaii and brazil, also any exporters that export corals with cites to Singapore? I tried to contact Wayne Ocean World from Hawaii recently but to no avail. There phone no and fax seems to be terminated and there was no reply from the email.  Hope you could help me out on this one. With appreciation, Yeow.
<Might I ask a bit about your business? Are you a retailer? A jobber of sorts, or a wholesale distributor of marine livestock? About how much volume do you do, enough to warrant an LD3? Can/do you co-opt shipments with anyone in Sing currently? Bob Fenner who will be there on Tuesday>

Costa Rican exporters
Dear Mr. Fenner,
Can you tell me how to contact Catalina Castro in Costa Rica? If not can you give me some information on exporters in Costa Rica? I look forward in hearing from you. Thanks for all of your time.
<Don't know this person, and unfortunately am out of town (in Hawai'i) right now. Do you have access to the OFI member listings? Or Pet Business Magazine's annual Buyer's Guide issue? I just checked OFI's on-line member list: http://www.ornamental-fish-int.org/ and there are none listed in Costa Rica. Good luck, Bob Fenner>
Best Regards,
David Donovan  

Artificial corals & fish
Guys,
I am looking for leads to some ethical importers of marine fish for a friend. Fe Baskin is the widow of Dave Baskin who was the creator of the ASI ReeForms corals ten years ago. They had set up a collection station in the Philippines and were just starting to ship fish and inverts when he died of stomach cancer early this year. Her family operation is currently shipping limited numbers to Holland but would like to start exporting to the USA. Originally they were collecting for custom exhibits. Of course it is all net collected and they are working with Ferdinand Cruz who has been working with the net collection training and has spoken at Marine Ornamentals on the Philippine situation. Her description of their operation is below. Any help would be appreciated.
Regards,
Tom
<Tom I will circulate amongst friends, associates in the trade I consider of excellent practices in hopes they can/will contact you. Bob Fenner>
From: Fe Baskin
Hi! Tom,
Thanks for the reply I was so upset and busy it takes me few days to recover. Any way we are using MAC guideline even if its ridiculous How can you ever trace a single damsel fish? But I have no choice so I will work with them its all lip service anyway. More of WWF propaganda.
Our weekly output will be 40-50 boxes a week but We will have stock in the field instead for the next shipment. I am shipping to Holland . Our client provide list of fish beforehand so we give the list to our collectors and we don't end up collecting fish that are not needed. That's the advantage of the field operation its a pain in the neck because we end up taking care of the fisherman but the control that you can get is worth it. We will have the stock of fish ready for shipment but the same amount will be in the cages ready to be shipped when we give them the signal. Also the Island where we operate we can collect all year round and the variety is there. No fancy blue face (seldom seen and fisherman usually said they are big). The supply will come all over the Island but mainly in Mindoro Island where our operation will be located. So much invertebrates are available if there is a demand the buyer can tell me. Our buyer in Holland he is a nice guy like you! Have technology in the shipping and he come to the Philippines every 3 months he adopted a 28 year old Filipina.
Paperwork are being process I will name the company DNB AQUATICS . What do you think? Our supervised collecting station in Mindoro Island we have cages in the ocean .Fish are not feed in the cages they stay there 3-5 days depending on the size. Another few days in the facility before shipping, we use individual small container per fish to avoid fin damage. Ferdinand will supply from Palawan, Bicol and Bolinao . We shipped fish in bags from the field less stress to the fish. We had a lot of hands on experience because we did it ourselves so many times. In the packing for shipment I got the best but they are part time in the beginning so I don't have a lot of overhead.
I really appreciate your help I know you are busy . Thank you and regard to Terri , Lisa (hug her for me she is special) and kisses to the new born I can't wait to meet them. Bye! for now and Take care

Glad to meet him at "Aquarama Show 2003" in Singapore
Hello,  Bob & Anthony,
<Howdy>
Your webpage is wonderful and excellent information both for hobbyists as well as trade/business friends.   I have got to know you through Barry of ClamsDirect who also introduced us to Walt Smith & Sea Dwelling Creature & others.
<Oh, yes>
  But for past months have been very busy with my Marine Fish & Corals Business in Singapore.   We are an importer, exporter, wholesaler & retailer of marine fishes, invertebrates, soft & hard corals, live rocks & Tridacna clams (all with CITES Permits) from neighboring & Pacific Countries for only 2 years over.     Most of our Hard Corals (with CITES Permits) are from neighboring countries and Vanuatu.  So far we still have bring in shipment from Walt Smith as the market in Singapore is too small and that already there are about 3 local importers who brought in their orders from Walt Smith, it's like fighting for a small piece of cake.   In fact, Smith & his staff Devi had given us a call about 3 months back about placing an order with them and are considering so maybe in the next few months just to cater for our overseas customers.  Do you think if we will to place order with them,  you can assist us by giving  them a word of giving us 'rare or special'
species of the corals just like what Edwin brought in his shipment,   appreciate very much for your kind words.
<Do just mention this to Tim (McLeod) there (Fiji) re what you're looking for. I'll cc them here>
Glad to know you will be attend the "Aquarama Show" in Singapore on 10th October '03 and our great honour & pleasure to welcome you.
<Actually, we'll miss the show this year and be in the Marquesas instead>
  I think you might be very busy meeting trade friends & hobbyists from various countries as well as  Edwin (the new LFS)   &  Perry Chong.      We will be definitely there and of much pleasure if we can invite you & friends to our premise and seek your professionally advices on various subjects.      
<Sorry to miss you>
By the way,  will be glad to know Perry Chong as well,  appreciate if you could introduce us to him or maybe in fact we already know each other except does not get to know each other names.
<Yes. Will cc Perry here as well>
     And as for Edwin, we know each other for quite something since he was our walk-in customer 2 years back and he has just started his shop about 1 month ago and last week  come in a shipment from Walt Smith.
Could you kindly also advise us, what if we do not have a website for our company, is it possible to put an advertisement at  your webpage and how much is the charges,   sorry have not really go through the pages at related webpages as recently extremely too busy.
<Will cc Mike Kaechele who handles the bulk of our "ad sales">
Meanwhile, we look forward to your favourable reply of visiting our premises and your great advices, suggestions & comments, please let us know your decisions so that we will arrange a few vehicles for the  pick up.     Appreciate if you could kindly pass around or introducing our company to your trade friends and hope you can cast your net further with more recommendation of exporters & importers to us.
<Will post your message, BUT do consider making/having a "good" website describing your business (and images!) so others can find you>
Hereby attached our introduction letter of our company & name card for your kind reference and comments.
Sorry for not able to write good sentences and express yourselves.
Thank You  & Best Regards
Steve Benjamin Chong ---- HP 065 - 98178144
New Trio Fisheries
<Be seeing you, Bob Fenner>

Cherry Picker in LA?
Hi Bob,
   We spoke about two weeks ago at the Desert Marine Society in Phoenix.  You're presentation was excellent, and so was the beer, I think.
   You had mentioned the name of a cherry picker in LA that you recommended to some of the other LFS's but I must have missed it.  I'm looking for the best, and willing to pay a premium to get good inverts.
   I'd really appreciate it if you could give me a shove in the right direction.
  Thank you very much,
  Brian Mihlfeith
  Ocean Art Aquariums
  Phoenix, AZ
<Howdy, and sorry re the delay in responding (just back from a trip). Do try: AM4fish.com and chat with Erik, Oh, and the fine fellows at FishHead: Sales@fishheadsinc.com
Bob Fenner>

Marine Biz 7/9/03
Mr. Fenner,
<Anthony Calfo in his stead>
I write as I need some advise/assistance with marine aquaria livestock. I am (or at least consider myself) an experienced marine aquarist, and have been doing it as a hobby and operating a small high-end install/display business (peaceful, community reef tanks only), since about 1980, which I started in Vail, CO (keeping marine tanks at 8200', with 30% less O2 is an art in it self). I take great pride in my work and try to be as knowledgeable as possible.
<good to hear>
I do agree with the concept that we, as marine keepers have a duty to provide a high quality environment for our wards so they may live out their normal life spans.  
<or longer as is often the case in good hands>
My most outrageous story was when I was in one of our LFS a while back, there was a guy in there buying a Volitans Lion, a Picasso Trigger and a Snowflake Moray.  After he left, the guys at the store were laughing as he comes in every 3 months and buys the same 3 animals, and is trying to keep them in a 30 gallon tank!  That was the last time I set foot in there.
<indeed... the feet are the best way to vote disapproval as a consumer. Carry your dollars away>
I have learned, I read all I can get my hands on, and in the last decade have succeeded in not only keeping almost everything I set my hand to, but have done so well with some of my tanks that we have to regularly harvest corals (soft and hard), macro algae's, snails, etc., which we find new homes for, but I have a small problem I am unable to figure out. While I have no problem keeping some seastars (brittles and serpents), I have the black hand with Linckia and Fromia.  Every single one (about 5, I will not buy anymore unless I can figure out my problem) never makes it out of quarantine (everything gets quarantined for 4 weeks before it goes into any display).  They invariably develop "the rot", where they start to deteriorate a the tip of an arm and it progresses until the animal dies (and it drives me nuts to watch).  I have carefully selected the specimens to assure they appear healthy and do not have any visible damage or parasites.  Once it begins I have tried cutting off the arm well below the infected area to no avail.  
<the first problem is the source of most of these animals on import (poor handling/shipping that dooms many from the start). Too many folks are willing to try a cheap Philippine or Indo Blue Linckia rather than spend for better specimens shipped in larger bags (as from Hawaii). The price diff and survivability are much different. A case of getting what you pay for. The second problem is that very few aquarists really are prepared to care for these stars. They are very hungry deposit feeders that need mature aquaria (over 1 year old) at a rate of one star per 100 gallons or more! Indeed... nowhere near as hardy or forgiving as the Ophiuroid brittle stars>
Are there any decent texts that address disease in inverts?
<there is more address of invertebrate pathogens in the academic literature... do tap your local college library of sciences. Have you also seen our new book on Reef Invertebrates?:
https://secure.wetwebmedia.com/order_form.jsp
http://wetwebfotos.com/store/nma-ri.html>
Our tanks are kept at 78-80 degrees, sg 1.024, ph 8.3 (very stable) Ca425, Mag 1200, KH 12-14, Bor 2,  Str 12,  Na 10, (since I installed a plenum it went to 10 ppm and stays there even if I do not do water changes, which I normally do 20% on the display, 50% on quarantine filled from display, every 2 weeks), O2 5-6, Ammonia, nitrites, phosphates, silicates, copper all 0, I add iodide and iron supplements but never enough to get a reading with my test kits (Seachem), the quarantine tanks are filled from a very healthy and mature 400 gal display with a refugium, we use Hawaiian Marine salt, the water is RO/DI, they have lots of live rock and sand (except for the hospital tanks) with good copepod populations, protein skimmers,  UV sanitizers, excellent circulation, halide lighting, weekly supplements (both phytoplankton and amino acid/trace elements).  I have attached a photo of the display in my office (sorry for the poor quality, crappy camera).
The only other animals I have any trouble with are Catalaphyllia and Helio-Fungia, neither of which I seem to get along with,
<the common problem here is that they are never fed well enough in captivity. These are very hungry corals that get perhaps no more than 70% of their daily sustenance from the translocation of carbon from zooxanthellae. These corals need target fed organismally several times weekly with meaty fare>
but do very well with many other stony corals, both small and large polyp, including Plerogyra sinuosa and gorgonians, several of my anemones have divided and grown like mad (I have a Macrodactyla doreensis that has gone from about 4" across to more than a foot in under a year).
Any idea what I am doing wrong?  There is sufficient detritus for them to feed on
<detritus is not even an appetizer for these two groups... they need course zooplankton like Mysis shrimps. 3-5 times weekly IMO for most>
but I have yet to get one to last 4 weeks and absolutely do not
want to be responsible for the demise of anymore, but have a couple of customers who would really like one.
<Fungia is much hardier than Heliofungia... and beware that many elegants are now being collected in very deep water (purple tips) and will not tolerate bright light at first or at all (no MH)>
My second question is, is there a decent, reputable marine livestock wholesaler out there, who can and will deal with the animals by proper names, not common names, and actually ship healthy, quality animals, and what was ordered.  
<I like Quality Marine and Aquatic Marines (both LA)>
Preferably one who also handles captive raised animals.  I get tired of crappy shipments with high mortality rates (in one case 50%, in the box just 6 hours), frequently the wrong animals (even if I give them proper name and a photo reference, I just received 2 Zanclus cornutus that were shipped as Heniochus diphreutes ).  I do not do enough business to use a broker, most require orders in the thousands per week or month, I do one every couple of months, just to fill my customers orders (I do NOT operate a retail storefront, and do not want to!).
<you really need a jobber to hand pick from QT stock... well worth the money spend (lower mortalities and much better cherry picked animals. Do look at AM4fish.com and chat with Erik>
I await your reply.  You may call if that is more convenient for you or if you have any questions. Please feel free to forward this message if you feel it necessary. Most sincerely, Mark Simon
<best of luck, mate. Anthony>

Chicago Bali Transhipper search 7/9/03
I am trying to find the same  wholesaler Bryan Thompson (AKA Blowfishaquatics  buddy of mine) is looking at who is in Chicago. This wholesaler will allow you to transship from Bali or pick stuff out of their stock. Can you help? Thank you, Rob
<the best way to find this or any such industry entity is through your merchant directories. If not already, do subscribe to Pet Business, Pet Age/Pet Supplies marketing trade journals. I like Pet Business best. Seek their annual directories for reference. Else try a PIJAC membership... great for resourcing. Hope to see you at once of the industry trade shows or conferences... MACNA in Indiana/Louisville this year: http://www.lmas.org  Anthony>

Website Link
Dear Mr. Bob Fenner & Mr. Jason C. ,
Let us introduce our company - PIRANTI AQUATICA - as Indonesian Exporter of Ornamental Fish & Aquatic Plant. We are very interested to be listed in your Link section, under Business - Live Stock Sources : Freshwater Fish section. For your further consideration, please review our website : www.pirantiaquatica.com .
Hope it can meet your requirement to be listed.
Thank you very much & Happy fish business !
Best regards,
Elan Patria
Piranti Aquatica
Jakarta - Indonesia
<Thank you for your note. Will post your link tomorrow. Bob Fenner>

Wholesale suppliers
The Crew @ WWM,
I have been a long time fan of wetwebmedia. You guys have been doing a great job. I have been in the fish industry for 10 years now. I have an offer to take over a wholesale Business and I need some guidance on Livestock. I am residing in North California and has no clue on how or where to find a supplier to marine coral and fish. Please help me get on track and point me in the right directions.
                                      Thanks
                                      Lost in Cali
<You can imagine the mixed feelings... wanting to help you, and oppositely wanting to warn you of the difficulty of operating in the livestock part of our trade. If you don't know who or where to find the major suppliers... how do you think you can run this part of your business? There are a few guides to "Who's Who" in the trade (Pet Business Magazine just came out with their annual "buyer's guide" that lists many). Do you have time to come down to Los Angeles to meet these suppliers? If so, I'll introduce you. Bob Fenner>

Adding saltwater to inventory- retailer 6/4/03
I am helping a friend with her pet store and we would like to add saltwater fish to our selection.  I am having trouble finding a system to display them in,
<hmmm... the commercial ready-made systems are rather expensive to say the least, and many of them are not at all practical.>
I really do not want to build our own.  
<do consider... more economical and often more efficient. Visit local and regional competitors to see systems you find admirable>
I was thinking along the lines of a MARS system or the likes there of.  
<have had personal experience with these units... beyond aesthetics, they are poorly designed and constructed in my opinion. Undersized drains and returns (flow), poor ventilation below (trapping heat of chillers counterproductively... and worst of all... particle board components near water?!?>
We are looking for maybe a total of 250gals or so.  In our area there is very little offered to customers.  We do have a
Petco but their specialist is no longer with them and their tanks have already crashed. (I was the specialist)  I want to help my friend corner the market here.  
<we have a lot of good information in articles and FAQs on the pet fish biz here on our website:
http://www.wetwebmedia.com/AqBizSubWebIndex/Biz%20Index/Biz%20index.htm >
Do you know of any good suppliers of livestock for a mom and pop store in eastern PA?  
<your best is to find a fish-picker/jobber in LA to hand-select from the best wholesalers there each week. Else, livestock quality will be random week to week... its the nature of the game with so many wild caught animals>
If you have any links that might be useful in obtaining what
we need I would appreciate it. Thank you, Caryn Heffner
<Quality Marine (http://www.qualitymarineusa.com/home.html) is one of my favorite wholesalers (have used them in several businesses for the last 15 years. Even then, however, I still use a picker to select for me... never take what the random worker will give to fill your order. I just chatted with a very intelligent and well-versed chap today that has an established business in LA for wholesaling/jobbing [we have mutual friends that also spoke very highly of them:
Erik & Dennis Reynolds at Aqua Marines Hermosa Beach, Ca 90254-0926
310-379-2581, 310-318-2202 (fax)
Consider contacting them and getting their information. They have a website too at www.am4fish.com
Best regards, Anthony>

List marine fish (Brazilian source)
<Thank you. Will post your name, address on our "Livestocking" part of our business subweb on WetWebMedia.com
Bob Fenner>
Iguaba ocean ornamental fishes exporter
Rua São Pedro # 37 ; CEP: 22254-032
São Pedro - Rio de Janeiro / BRASIL
TELEPHONE: + 55 (21) 2595-3223
FAX: + 55 (21) 2264-8222
E-MAIL: iguabaocean@vento.com.br

Bali transhipper in Chicago 5/03
I am trying to find a wholesaler who is in Chicago.  This wholesaler will allow you to transship from Bali or pick stuff out of their stock.
Another store is buying from them but they will not give me the name of the wholesaler.  Can you help.
Bryan
Blowfish Aquatics, Inc.
(317)714-1685
<Don't know either, but will post on our root web in hopes that someone does and will contact you. Bob Fenner>

DAVE PALMER
Hi Mr. Fenner,
I would like to touch base with Mr. Palmer regarding importing/transship T. clams & Prog. corals. I was reading the "FAQs about the Giant Clams Business" section; also I hear his name articles on the Internet. If you can help me with his contact info, I'll appreciate it.
<You can reach Dave through Pacific Aquafarms: pafarms@earthlink.com >
Thank you in advance.
Best Regards,
Ertan
<Welcome. Bob Fenner

Saltwater livestock importation
Hello, My name is Lee. I have a question about importing saltwater fish. You might not be able to help me but if you know someone who can please ask them to email me.   I am opening up a saltwater aquarium shop this summer and I was thinking about importing fish in the future. I already have my import license. I am going to buy wholesale for now and then later when I can expand I would like to import.
<Please read here: http://www.wetwebmedia.com/AqBizSubWebIndex/bizlvstkfaqs.htm
and the next Related FAQs file (linked, in blue, at top)>
I have thought about this and it is something I would like to do.  I was wondering if there was a place I could find how to acclimate imported fish once you receive them. I have heard they are hard to acclimate. But I really would like to try to import my own fish. If you could give me any help and advice I would appreciate it.
<Please read here: http://www.wetwebmedia.com/acclimat.htm>
I am a very determined person with plenty of help. I know I could do this but the people I have talked to are not very helpful. They just try to talk me out of it.
<Perhaps it is their assessment that this is not a good idea for you. Much to be learned, related here. I strongly encourage you to go work with someone for a while... see what is involved here...>
So I will buy from them instead. Would you please email me your help and advice. I am usually at work during your show. That is why I am emailing you.   Thank you for your help in advance. Lee
<Bob Fenner>

Breeding, supplying cichlids for profit
Hello,
For the past month or so I have been researching everything I can find on breeding and importing Cichlids.  That's when I came across your website which is great, very informative.  I want to start a business supplying the local fish stores and general public with high quality Cichlids as the selection around me is pretty pitiful.
<Where are you located?>
Eventually I may put up a website but I'm kind of far from an airport so I'm guessing shipping would be difficult.
<Yes, possible trouble. How will you get your live product to your customers? Have you looked into FedEx, UPS?>
This is my second attempt at breeding Cichlids for profit.  The first time I tried I did everything wrong and ended up getting out of it.
This time I want to start out right and I'm hoping you can help.  In your experience is it possible for me to make money supplying local fish stores?
<Has been done, yes>
I don't need to make a fortune (it would be nice though) I'm just looking to bring home some extra cash. Also Could you supply me with maybe a punch list of things to do to get started.  Also maybe some tips on how to set-up my tanks and centralized filter system to make it as maintenance free as possible without costing me a fortune.
<These items are archived on the WWM site. Do read through the Business Index/subweb>
I will continue to read the articles on your site as I'm sure most of the information I'm looking for is in there.  But I am eager to start and was hoping you could direct me to the right articles or provide any help you can.  Thanks in advance for your help.
Thanks, Steve Bruni
<Do study and keep good notes for now... while drawing up plans, looking for used gear (in good shape). Bob Fenner>

Buying wholesale
How do I go about buying fish/corals from wholesalers in L.A. do I need a license, permit?? Can you please enlighten me with your infinite wisdom
<Mmm, don't agree with the in in infinite, but either you must present proof that you're "in the trade"... as in a business license and maybe a business card, or go with someone who can/does have such proof. A few wholesalers don't sell to service companies (just to LFS, institutions...). Best to "go in" if you're uninitiated with someone who is established. Bob Fenner>
Thanks again, and again, and again
Joe Grunstad

Opening a fish retail store (livestock importation possibilities)
I have been reading a lot on the matter over the past few months, including your wonderful site, but I'm having trouble getting information on permits that I might have to obtain to sell marine and tropical fish.  I tried looking at the US Fish & Wildlife website with no luck, is this something for importers/exporters only?
<For the most part, yes. The "economies of scale" (how much livestock your store/systems can hold, how much you can expediently sell... and the costs... per shipment of paperwork, Customs, CITES, freight and possibly forwarding...) of a single store versus a larger distributor are prohibitive. Much more likely you will buy your fish and non-fish from livestock wholesalers. These are listed on our "Links" pages>
Also if I do have to buy a permit is there a list of fish that are "ILLEGAL" to have in my store that will be provided.  Thanks for you time, Ryan.
<There are some Statewide illegal organisms (per state) that you can read about or get info. from your "Fish and Game" or "Dept. of Natural Resources" civil servants... As far as I'm aware, only the walking catfish, Clarias batrachus is illegal nationwide. Bob Fenner>

Wholesale tropical marine fish  and  freshwater
Subject: introduction 2003
dear sirs ;
many thanks for your time !!
we would like to introduce our company ; we  are specialized on live ornamental fishes with more than 10 years of experience !!
we are able to dispatch fishes around the world on airline company or use a good broker in los angles or Miami (U.S.) also some in Europe !!
our collection came from nature to you without any chemical substance ; they are caught by net ; one per one ; just to keep the quality of fishes !!
if you be interested on our pricelists; feel free to contact us at any time and we will be very glad to support you at any time !
best regards !
Ruller <iguabaoc@momentus.com.br>
<Do you have a website or should folks contact you at the above (Brazilian) address? Bob Fenner>

About your articles
Dear Bob,
<Hello Wendy>
My name is Wendy Legeret and I live in Iron Mountain, Michigan.  In June, more likely July of this year, I am will be opening up a tropical fish store to hobbyists and businesses.  If I'm not mistaken, I saw on your website articles pertaining to stocking a business like mine.  However, when I went to click on the article, all that came up was the title.  Is there another way to read your articles or can I find them in a magazine of some sort?  
<Mmm, maybe not written (and the "article" page being used as a "place-marker"), but perhaps just not placed yet. Can you give me the exact location (the URL) of what you're looking for?>
I am really looking for both marine and fresh fish suppliers.  My competition in the past has told me that no fish supplier, especially marine, will go beyond Green Bay, Wisconsin, which is about two hours south of my location.  I need to have a supplier that will come further than Green Bay, obviously!!!
<Mmm, if your business volume warrants it, you are likely looking at ordering from marine livestock wholesalers (or "jobbers"... i.e. intermediates who hand-pick such and forward) who will ship to your nearest airport... and possibly a freight forwarding company in concert. These businesses are centered around major international airports (Los Angeles, Chicago, Miami, New York...)>
If you can point me in the right direction or if you can help me out in any way, I would be most grateful.
<Please see our aquatics business links page: http://www.wetwebmedia.com/AqBizSubWebIndex/bizlinkspg.htm
there are listed, linked a few of the major suppliers (in the middle row...)>
Thank you so much!
Wendy Legeret
Wendy's Blue Lagoon
http://www.wendysbluelagoon.com
<Congratulations on your new store and welcome to our trade. Bob Fenner>

Sri Lanka Fishes
Hi Bob n gang, I am a new fish trader in Malaysia.  I am buying some marine fishes for my company and I was wondering what is the quality of Sri Lankan fishes like, compared to Philippines and Indonesia?  The Sri Lankan fishes seem to be priced slightly higher than Indo-Philippines, and I was hoping that they are better conditioned.
<The most experience I have with marine livestock from Sri Lanka is second hand and from visiting with folks in the trade from there at the Interzoo shows. IMO there are good to not so good businesses in both countries. I would judge that more good companies are in Sri Lanka however>
Also, any idea of cyanide usage in harvesting fishes in Sri Lanka?
<Not as far as I've ever heard.>
I hope that you are able to lend me some of your experience. Thanks John
<Do share your experiences when you've bought in a few shipments. Bob Fenner>

Transshipping
Hello Folks.
Can Someone clear something up! Exactly what is a transhipper??? Are they middlemen behind a phone desk? Do they have a holding facility etc. etc.??
<This is more of a "lack of service" than anything. Transshipping involves "passing on" boxes, whole cans (air cargo containers) of livestock, often w/o opening (to change water, re-oxygenate) in efforts to save money (in piggybacking orders, batching CITES, Customs... charges, gaining breaks in freight costs by volume, constancy...) and passing on to your "customers"... Most transshipping is done by folks who otherwise have wholesale/holding facilities, but the present slip-sliding arrangement of dealers in the trade includes many variations on this theme. Most often it's retailers and etailers looking to save money who tranship. A note re this process: UNLESS one has the time, resources, expertise to acclimate, hold, take care of... transshipped livestock... and put up with the losses, tying up tank space, meeting late, odd flights/dealing with air-freight folks... don't go this route. Bob Fenner>

Livestock wholesale sources
hello. The site TMC is "down" or not available for five days. I'm tying to access because I need to make an import of live rock and stock to my country Portugal. maybe you can give the email of TMC to send them the request and the information about their site...thanks and answer please
<Don't have their email, but there is a number posted on a review of their biz I penned here:
http://www.wetwebmedia.com/AqBizSubWebIndex/tmcpropc.htm
And do look through our livestock links: http://www.wetwebmedia.com/marlinks.htm
and Livestocking Business FAQs files: http://www.wetwebmedia.com/AqBizSubWebIndex/bizlvstkfaqs.htm
and the linked files (in blue, above) for folks who can supply you.
Bob Fenner>

TMC in the UK
I'm Portuguese and I try to enter in tropic marine center and I don't have success. I have a company in Portugal that have to import marine live stock and I can't find a company in Europe that export live stock and rock to my country. Please help my find one. thanks answer 
<Mmm, their site seems to be "down" for now:
www.tmc-ltd.co.uk/aquariumproducts/ tropicmarintestkits.asp
Try back in a few hours, or tomorrow... or give them a call: Tel: +44 (0)1923 284151
Bob Fenner>

Finding Exporters
Thanks for the answer and today I return to try enter and I don't have success. Don't exist another company in Europe or other country that export to my country live stock? I know that exist a company in Indonesia but I can't find the contact...maybe you can find me. thanks
<I think the best way for you to find a supplier in any country that you are looking for product from is you contact that specific country's (or state's) "department of commerce". Every government has one... it is their job in part to monitor and promote trade in their country and they have a list of all legal and registered merchants. There are but a handful or large exporters (and many individual collectors) in countries even as large as Indonesia. Kind regards, Anthony><<Underworld. RMF>>

Breeding Petfish for Export
Hello,
   My name is Tesfaye O'Sullivan and I am a Civil Engineer working in Jamaica. My passion is fish breeding and I am seriously interested in breeding pet fishes for export. I know we currently export fishes from Jamaica but I wanted to know if you could advise me as to which fish I should breed based primarily on world demand. I heard that Swordtails are popular. What fishes do you believe I should start out with. Also do you know any company/agencies etc that I could sell these fishes to for export. Thanks in advance for you assistance.
<Thank you for your interest. My best advice is to contact the Florida Tropical Fish Farmer's Association (FTFFA) re their membership's offerings, contact them in turn and gain awareness of how much they are charging for what species, sizes... to determine if you can produce fin-fish competitively... better to even visit some of the Florida farms. OH, and if possible, there is an international trade show, the Aquarama
in May, June in Singapore where many of the freshwater and marine livestock producers, distributors will be. Both these organizations can be found on the Internet. Please feel free to contact me/us if we can be of further assistance. Bob Fenner>
Regards,
Tesfaye O'Sullivan

Re: marine business
hi bob...
had one more questions...do you know of any good exporters of marine livestock from Haiti or Caribbean?
thank
hoang bui
<Mmm, not in Haiti, but once again, w/o knowing you better all I will do is contact folks, associates and ask that they consider responding to you. After you've been in the trade a good while you'll understand why it seems like such a "closed-shop" to outsiders. Most of the "A" players have established relationships that cover most of the business/world... and have little interest in shipping to unknowns... Hence a lot of new folks get burned by the "Non A" players (the second et al. string suppliers)... till they become more sophisticated. Have you worked in the trade long? For other businesses? Bought from transhippers? Piggy-backed orders with others? Bob Fenner>

Re: marine business
hi bob...
I've been in the marine business for a little over 3 years...but have worked with marine/fresh setups for over 20 years.  I order from Carelli, and other wholesalers, but I was interested in importing some livestock.  On occasion, I have piggy backed with D.R. imports in Miami.  If you have any ideas, please let me know...thanks again.
hoang bui
<About how many boxes could you take... an entire LD-3? Bob Fenner>

Re: marine business
hi bob...
right now, I can only fill 1/3 to 1/2, at most, of a LD3; I may be able to pool an order will another dealer to fill the LD3 space though...but personally, I'm looking for smaller quantities.  Any suggestions...?  thanks for any suggestions/help.
take care
hoang bui
<Best to pool or for you to pre-sell part of a shipment to fill a can. Where are you located, what's the nearest airport with freight facilities? Are there enough folks in your area to co-op a shipment? Bob Fenner>

Re: marine business
hi bob,
we are located in Gainesville, Florida...hour and a half from Orlando (MCO airport) or two hours for Tampa/st. Petersburg (non-designated import port)  I have perhaps 1 or 2 other dealers that may help fill the order though.  thanks again for all your help...any suggestions would be greatly appreciated!
talk to you soon.
hoang bui
<As I recall you were looking for marine livestock suppliers from where? From the Caribbean? You might try the folks that have emailed us:
http://www.wetwebmedia.com/AqBizSubWebIndex/bizlvstkfaqs.htm
and the next (linked) FAQs file. Otherwise, will you please refresh my memory: what sorts of livestock, from what localities are you interested in?
Bob Fenner>

Looking to import marine livestock into Singapore
Greetings from Singapore
<Hello from southern California>
I am a marine reef tank hobbyist and wish to seek your help.
I'm very interested to import in Tridacna Maxima Clam and colorful SPS into Singapore for personal tank or group of tanks.
LFS here in Singapore do not bring in these coral.
Could somebody provide some CITES certified contacts whereby I can import
those lovely coral.
<For just your use? Gets to be a bit expensive per unit/specimen, but will introduce you here to my friend Walt Smith in hopes that he can arrange a shipment to you, and my friend Perry Chong of SG in hopes that he will assist you as well. Bob Fenner>
Thank You
Hon

Corals for German Distributor
Dear Thomas,
Thank you for your e-mail dated 30 December.
Ornamental Fish International is an international aquatic industry organization with members in 40 countries.
As such, we do not, ourselves, deal with the import or export of fish, plants, corals, etc. However, please visit our website (www.ornamental-fish-int.org) where, among other things, you will find a full listing of our members under the Members' Directory section. Please feel free to contact any of them.
With best wishes.
John
JOHN DAWES
SECRETARY GENERAL
ORNAMENTAL FISH INTERNATIONAL
APARTADO DE CORREOS 129,
29692 SABINILLAS,
MANILVA,
MALAGA,
SPAIN.
TEL:+34 95 289 1975
FAX: +34 95 289 0895
E-MAIL: ofidawes@compuserve.com
www.ornamental-fish-int.org
<Thank you for the follow-up John. Bob Fenner>

Re: marine business <Importing livestock>
hi bob...
hope you are doing well.
<Yes my friend, thank you>
Currently, being a shop owner, I get all my livestock from various wholesalers.  I was wondering though, if there are any restrictions on importing your own livestock for sales?
<Just possible CITES permits, Customs paperwork... Your import agent (you can find them in the "Yellow Pages" in towns that the airlines ships in and through that do such work, like LAX or by calling U.S. Customs in those towns) can/will arrange for this documentation for you>
  If you import, do you have to become a wholesaler, or can you resale directly to public?  
<You can do both, either. You can sell directly to the public... just need to justify the volume, cash outlay... have the space, time for acclimating size orders that "make sense"... big wholesalers get the best deal on freight costs, etc...>
I already done some reading, and I've found that a permit is required, along with a wildlife officer and some quote papers, etc...Just wondering if anything else should be mentioned? ...Is there somewhere I can go for further information on the topic...the resources I found online are somewhat limited.  Thank you in advanced...take care.
h. bui
<Don't know a "how to do this" site... If you're friendly with an existing wholesaler they might allow you insight, or possibly try an intermediate step and ask if they'd allow you to "piggy-back" your order with theirs. Much savings in freight... likely more than enough to pay them some sort of nominal (10-15%) pass-through charge. Bob Fenner>

Re: marine business
hi bob,
thank you for the reply...
Just wondering if you had any experiences with these exporters:  Bali Aquatic, Aquatic Indonesia, & Quality Pets Aquatics?
<Only know of the last... in L.A.>
  Are there any exporters of marine fish, corals, clams that you may recommend?  thanks again...talk to you soon.
h. bui
<Unfortunately don't know of any well enough, that have any more capacity. Bob Fenner>

Live rock (UK distribution)
Dear Sirs,  
My name is Martin Doyle, I am a director of a company in the UK dealing with Haulage, Import and Export.
I also have an interest in Reefkeeping, and was wondering about the possibilities of shipping large amounts of rock from yourselves to my Holdings, with a view to selling on to fellow reefers throughout the UK.
Can you tell me if this is already being done in the UK and also if you feel this would be possible to strike up a business relationship, as I personally feel there is definitely an opening for business here, and would like your views/feelings on the subject before I arrange to come over to visit you to discus the project further.
Best Regards
Martin Doyle
247International
<Mmm, will send your note around to friends, associates in the trade to see if they're interested... are you familiar with Underworld and TMC in your country? Their drygoods and livestock are sold by a few folks there: http://www.marine-aquarium-supplies.co.uk/
Bob Fenner>

Referrals (Planning on new LFS in Singapore)
Hi guys
I am looking at setting up a marine fish shop in Singapore, SE Asia.  I am currently looking into the logistics and such, meaning  I am looking for suppliers of livestock and some dry goods and am hoping that you may be able to refer me to some good fellas in the trade, preferably located near my place.  Much as I wish to, $$$ say I cannot ship everything, especially common Indo-Pac. livestock, from US.   Here are what I need:
1.  Suppliers of marine fish, invertebrates and soft corals common to indo-pacific regions, meaning they need to be sited in the SE Asia themselves.  I am concerned with the use of cyanide, and understand that its use is still wide-spread in Indonesia.  Some exporters in Philippines, to my understanding are claiming net caught, cyn-free fishes, but I thought it will be nice if you know someone close ......
<We do>
2.  Suppliers of marine salt mix in bulk.  I understand that coral life and Kent marine already have local "sole" distributors.
3.  Suppliers of SeaLife from Atlantic, such as emerald crabs, peppermint shrimps.  Hopefully someone from Hawaii so that I can order these occasionally along with Hawaii net caught fishes.
If it is not convenient for you to furnish their details, I will appreciate it if you can give them mine:
Email: lamcy@i2r.a-star.edu.sg
contact number: +65-98582018
Many thanks in advance, Edwin
<Will circulate your list around... I suggest you work out all the other aspects of this planned venture (location, finance, personnel, set-up... and let the stock aspects take a back-seat to your plans for now... And do plan on attending Aquarama (.com) in early May in SG. We will be there (as visitors) and most all suppliers you want too! Bob Fenner>

Re: Referrals
<Will circulate your list around... I suggest you work out all the other aspects of this planned venture (location, finance, personnel, set-up... >
Have done these, in fact I am negotiating the rental deal on a particular place right now.  $$$ are raised, though as usual there are never enough of them LOL.  I also have talked with the guys from WS.  Am also starting to clear a path through all the government bureaucracy to get licenses and stuff.  Once things are more firmed up, which will be only around late Feb, I will probably draw up the setup plans to seek your opinion/advice.
<and let the stock aspects take a back-seat to your plans for now... And do plan on attending Aquarama (.com) in early May in SG. We will be there (as visitors) and most all suppliers you want too! Bob Fenner>                     
Aquarama is in late May, dear :)
<Yikes I sit corrected... the 29 till the first of June!>
  I will definitely be there, was there for the last few times......  and if I can have to honor to meet you and your guys (esp. Anthony, he taught me a lot), and maybe show you around, I will be most glad to.
<We'll be there. Please make it known if not enough people respond to you for your desires. Will cast my net further. Bob Fenner>
Best Regards and a million thanks, Edwin

New Retail outlet in SG
Hi everyone
<Edwin, meet Perry, Perry, Edwin. You both live in SG>
I have a friend working for an exporter in Singapore. I think they bring in stuff from Indonesia and if I am not wrong from Brazil as well.
<Ah yes>
I was supposed to visit this set up long time ago and I guess I might as well bring Edwin along. just came back from a dive trip to Bali and Manado so I won't get an off day until sometime next week. Call me on my mobile
9636 9650. Perry
<Be chatting, seeing you Per. Where do you want to go diving ahead, after Aquarama this time? Bob Fenner>

Re: "the business" - Part 2
Hey Anthony, Thanks for your prompt reply! I think the elusive goal of life is to make a living doing something you love...unfortunately that isn't always so easy!
<agreed and agreed>
Well, I think you guys have done well, and I respect you for it.
<thanks kindly my friend>
Regarding my previous email, I would have to disagree with you on a few points.  The available flights and distance between Cairo, Egypt to DFW is actually a shorter distance and flight than to LAX!  
<alas, you are still missing the point bud, in part my fault due to/limited by the brevity of e-mail. Beyond transit time you must reckon the rigors of transport in unheated cargo wells through the tropical pacific to a warm destination (LA or Miami) versus the decidedly cooler path various shipments must traverse to get to Detroit (through London for many... over Canada for some! Brrrrrr!). With over ten years experience importing animals... I'll take 25 hours shipping tropicals through the tropics versus 20 hours via a latitude north of New York any day <G>.>
I am still trying to hammer down a flight plan that would be less than 20 hours (I'm down to about 39 hours so far).  
<the higher prices and higher mortality of Tonga shipments for example is because it takes around 30 hours to get anywhere civilized in America on import. Shipments over 20 hours are killing animals unnecessarily. You can trust me, doubt me or better yet talk to others that have done the same math for a consensus my friend. I assure you that you will make more profit and kill fewer animals by buying higher priced healthy livestock that has been held at a wholesaler, rather than purchasing a whole lot of stressed and dying cheaper animals transshipped direct. I'm not sure how/if you figure that Detroit is the closest place for Red Sea at 39 hours. Most Red Sea comes into the East coast (a little New York, most Miami>
Sri Lanka is also physically closer to Detroit than Los Angeles, although not by much.  
<again... the temperature in transit issue. There really is a reason why the majority of marine wholesalers are in California. You can live or die by the numbers... but the numbers will not lie>
I have not researched the flight times there yet.  A and M Aquatics (a wholesaler) in Lansing, Michigan often carries a large selection of Hawaiian, Red Sea, and Caribbean fish.  There are also wholesale facilities in Bloomington, Minneapolis (Salt H2O Headquarters).  Also, APET inc. in Illinois, Holiday Coral in Indiana.  
<No sale... you've named three. You can name 10X more and it will still be pale by comparison. The only reason these places exist is Detroit being one of 5 (7) legal ports of entry (and forwarding flights) for CITES listed animals. That still does not mean their rates of mortality and morbidity aren't higher. Making a profit and making an honest profit are sometimes two very different things. I am very aware of the wholesalers you have mentioned. You too can get the industry scoop at the trade shows and conferences <G>>
These are all legit operations with decent facilities (I've seen many of them).  
<OK... I'll stop trying to persuade you. Just tell me what you want to hear ;) >
I would never consider transshipping fish, as most (if not all) pet stores simply do not have the time or resources to acclimate the fish correctly.  
<agreed>
I believe corals can be transshipped, if care is taken to be selective in the species that are shipped.  
<this is a barely truthful assessment which I begrudgingly agree with. Severe limitations though>
Most transhippers I have had experience with have little knowledge
of the animals they are "shipping", and care even less if you have DOA's!
<I'm starting to wonder if it has rubbed off>
They are not a model for my business! I realize that you should not recommend that anyone import wild caught animals for a living.  I hope that legislation will not just shut down our
industry outright.  But our industry is unfortunately responsible for damage to reefs, and the forces that may ultimately destroy natural reefs are much harder to regulate!
<OK>
It is not my intention to form a large scale wholesale business.  But rather to form a high-quality small scale business.  
<sounds good... be sure to form and revisit a good business plan often>
I see too many fish that come in starving and diseased from large wholesalers. I hope that by focusing on smaller shipments, feeding and treating disease intensively, I can have higher quality fish.  I can then sell these fish to my maintenance customers (with more of an assurance they will live!), and sell the rest to select stores, or online.
<cool>
I have always tried to "do my part" to encourage propagation and captive-bred specimens, buying coral frags from customers, supplying the store with my own, trading frags with friends, etc.
<excellent... although you are preaching to the converted :) >
Doh! another long email...sorry =)
<no worries>
One more thing....after hearing your talk, I got rid of all my powerheads, and put a Gen-X pump on a closed loop in my tank.  That lowered the temp. by 4 degrees! Now I can run my halides longer, plus I have more water flow!
<its a beautiful thing! great to hear my friend <G>>
The comment on Caulerpa sp. algae also explains why Acropora don't survive very well in our store Ecosystem reef!  
<yes... amazing. The proof is in the pudding as they say>
Guess we'll have to set up a special tank for those! Brett
<best regards, bud... do chat more with us at MACNA 03 if we do not see you before then. Anthony>

"The business" - Part 3
hey again Anthony,
Go to sleep! =)  
<ha! Vampire shift <G>... somebody has to keep the WWM mail train running round the clock :) >
Seriously, your dedication to the hobby is admirable.   
Thanks for your input (again!).  
<and thank you for caring to know my/our opinion my friend>
I based my conclusions on distances between the Red Sea, DFW, and LAX on physical estimates ("as the crow flies"), which is but a rough estimate  compared to the reality of airline flight schedules.  
<understood and agreed we have to start somewhere>
Unfortunately, climate  control of airline compartments has yet to be initiated (except for pharmaceuticals and haz. chemicals, the folks that have big bucks!).
<I hear you my brother!>
I would definitely agree that shipping from a tropical location to a temperate location presents problems.  I thought that water quality concerns were more important (pH and ammonia) than temperature.  
<both are valid and significant concerns with varying effects on morbidity, mortality of marine life. Take the surgeonfish for example: studies have shown that they can take a 10 degree increase in temperature before showing rates of stress induced Ich infection that can be instigated with as little as a 3 degree drop in temperature. The ocean as we know it is remarkably stable in temperature. Dr Carlson told me one time that he dove water in Fiji that was 85F at 75 foot!!! Yep... stable water temps are a biggie. Agreed though, that other parameters of water quality are equally important and some more so>
I really don't want to tell you what I want to hear,  
<heehee... you were starting to scare me with the sales pitch in the last e-mail>
I just would prefer a discussion, rather than just hearing an opinion.  And, it's just more fun to argue! =)
<you're married? :p >
Well I'm past the point of writing good email...I'm off to dreams of snorkeling in the south pacific.... Thanks again! Brett
<ciao, bub... and best of luck. Anthony>

Pet Store advice from WetWebMedia.com
Hi, we do need some assistance. We own a pet store and have added marine fish to our pets. we can only find one hatchery and is limited on marine fish. can you help us? Kritter Korner Tracy city TN 931-592-3333 thank you sherry
<welcome to the salty side of the industry my friend! We can indeed help you. There really is so much to say and share here to help you succeed. You really need to meet us or someone like us <G> at a trade show or conference and sit down for a couple hours to get the crash course! The big national marine conference MACNA is being held reasonably near you next year (it travels the country) in Kentucky by the Louisville club (www.lmas.org). If you go to no other conference or show... this is not to be missed! We'll be there and are delighted to chat and help you for as long as you are willing to listen. The industry needs more good retailers of course :) In answer to your question... there are many good wholesalers out there, and even more bad or ignorant ones. Make your life simple and go to one of the best and oldest ones around: Quality Marine. You can follow this link for their contact information: http://www.qualitymarineusa.com/home.html
heehee... tell them Bob Fenner's crew recommended you and they might throw in a clownfish kewpie doll :) They reall