Hawaiian Fish Exporters
<Perry, Dave, I chatted with the three principal collecting companies owner/operators on the Big Island and two of the three sounded like they might like to do business with you. 
Do contact Jeff at Island Marine Exports 808-329-1898
or Steve/Mr. Fish at 808-334-0123
and maybe the folks at Yankee Divers 808-329-3125
Of these folks I know Steve the best to be honest and have consistently good quality... he has a very nice self-made holding system, catches and processes his own livestock.
Hope this helps. Bob Fenner>

Giant clam source
Dear Sir/Madam,
<Hello to you>
We are from SongNam Co., LTD in Vietnam. Our company specializes in supplying  kinds of Tridacna, Crocea, Maxima, Squamosa..that have two main colors :green& blue. Besides we have a lot of Marine Fishes, Soft Corals anemone, live rock, sea-star &trifling-coral-Trifling-coralish used to filter water in tank At present We have a large farm to be located in a Island. We can supply them with the large quantity, beautiful color &strong. If you need to buy them, please contact us by mail: info@songnamco.com
Best wishes to you
<Thank you for your note. Will share, post on WetWebMedia.com. Bob Fenner>
Huy Khanh

LFS looking for Bali corals - 3/30/04 
Hi, I was contemplating starting my own LFS, <Good on ya!> and I was interested in carrying those Bali Aquacultured SPS heads. <Ooooh, wanting to enter the fray, eh? Well, this Bali coral fad is becoming a big deal, limited stock and CITES permits seems to limit the export of these corals lately. LFS' starting to fight over the limited available animals not to mention guarding their sources as if they were gold. The only place I know that seems to get regular shipments of corals from Bali and Jakarta is here: http://www.golden-ina.com/index.html> Do you know who I can contact to see what costs would be for such an endeavor? <Start with Golden Ina. I am sure there are many others but I am finding it very difficult to ascertain if the corals are indeed truly from Bali and the numbers/email of the wholesale dealers. If I hear any more I will be sure to post it in our forums and on the FAQs. Bob? Anything to add here? ~Paul> Thank you. Lawrence Lau

Goldfish exporter 4/1/04
Dear Sir,
We are very happy to write to you. From the Internet we know your company. And we sincerely want to establish the trade relations with you.
This is Beijing Pet Company in China.
Our company involves in exporting koi and various kinds of goldfish including Oranda, fantail, moor, butterfly, Ryukins, bubble eye, shubunkin, comet, etc.
We have established many business relations with different clients all over the world, especially in Europe, north and south America as well as in Asia such as Japan. With top quality products, satisfying service, high reputation and complete certificates authorized by Chinese government, we have been trading with our clients successfully for more than 15 years.
Hope you will be interested in our company. If you like, we are very glad to send you the price list, stock list, freight rate and other useful information.
Our telephone number is 0086-10-80495307 and fax number is 0086-10-80496555, also you can send emails to contact us.
Thanking you for your kind attention and looking forward to hearing from you in the near future !
  <Will post on WetWebMedia.com. Bob Fenner>
Best wishes,
Yang Changhai (General manager) beijingpet@hotmail.com

Nigerian fish source 
To All - 
I was visited by Alfred Olorunlona recently, a Nigerian who brought be a fish price list and is trying to develop a fish exporting station business in Nigeria. He is seeking American markets for large quantities. You may wish to contact him directly to discuss how he works these deals and whether he can get additional species. I would greatly appreciate any feedback from people, perhaps by copying me on your email exchanges. This looks like a nice opportunity to bring in new stocks. Note that imports are notoriously off the mark on species identifications, so what are listed here might in part be previously unknown species. I think this is worth pursuing, and would like to know how you fare. 
Please pass this on to other aquarium groups. - Bob Goldstein 
<Robert, does Mr. Olaniran have an email address or URL or even physical address he wants to send along for our posting or referral? Bob Fenner, WetWebMedia>
Thank you!!

A question concerning ethical wholesalers
Dear crew,
<Hi there>
thanks for all of your support over the years. I have become so successful at keeping SPS etc., I am launching my own internet based business! And yes, I will be contacting you guys to place a banner on your site shortly (working on the site now).
<Yay!>
I wanted to ask what wholesalers Calfo and Fenner would recommend, I don't want to use a wholesaler that condones unethical collection practices. I am considering the following (whoever I use I need access to quality SPS)- The first two are my topic picks
<Okay>
Pacific Aqua Farms
Underwater world
Golden Ina
Sea Dwelling Creatures
Quality Marine
ERI
<Most likely... are PAF, UWW, SDC and Quality... are honest and competently run. Don't know the folks at Golden well, and ERI, eh, you can check their reputation elsewhere.>
Thanks, I appreciate any recommendations you can make!
Tom
<Anthony's out of town, touch for a few days, but will put your query in his in-box for response later. Bob Fenner>

A question concerning ethical wholesalers II
Anthony, thanks a million for your reply (and Bob's too).
<always welcome, my friend>
I did check with Aqua Marine, unfortunately I may be locked out because of exclusivity in Richmond, even though I wont be retailing locally, just on the net. Do you perhaps know of anyone else that performs a similar function?
<indeed... do consult the online yellow pages... seek an established aquarium service professional... these chaps often do fish-picking too and they are at the wholesalers weekly for their own biz usually. Going rate is about 10% of the total order cost. An extra $100 on a $1,000 order is well worth it when you see the quality of livestock picked by your trained professional rather than the random items picked by minimum wage workers>
Its a shame because I am looking for precisely what they have.
Thanks again, Tom
<no worries... best of luck. Anthony>

Re: A question concerning ethical wholesalers
Anthony and Bob thanks a million for the help:
I am not trying to be a pain in the @#$ (  :), I was wondering if Bob might have any recommendations as well on suppliers or pickers that I can trust. I am looking for rare colorful SPS, ricos, zoos, clams, inverts etc. (but not so rare they shouldn't be collected!!!!) out of the usual Bali, Tonga, Hawaii, but also looking for Vanuatu, Japan, Micronesia, etc.  (looking to establish online presence with high volume (of course) and a long term relationship with a supplier preferably, but a jobber or picker would work as well).
Unfortunately due to an exclusivity agreement with a LFS, Aqua Marine can't sell to me (RATS!!) I don't mind paying a little more as long as I know I will quality (as Anthony suggested!). I noticed in some of the prior correspondences with other WWM users that you would BCC various individuals in the biz and would like to ask if you don't mind, if you could for me.  
Once again thanks!! I will be sponsoring your page as soon as I get a site here (in the next two weeks, all I am missing is stock), and will include a link to your site if you don't mind as you guys are priceless to this hobby.
Tom
<Tom, I will ask around next time I am in L.A.. Unfortunately I don't know well-enough any of the selection services/personnel to give them an endorsement of sorts. Do you know of folks outside your retail area that you might ask who they use? Lastly, I might ask the same key question very-openly on the bulletin boards/Net... like Reefs.org and see who you hear about. Lastly, knowing what little I do, I would trust the "general services" of Quality Marine, Sea Dwelling Creatures and Pacific Aquafarms... Bob Fenner>

Coral frag Business, looking for commercial importer
Dear Mr. Robert Fenner,
<Gunawan>
Allow me to introduce our company, PT Pura Baruna Lestari, We are the commercially - operated coral transplantation farm in Indonesia. Here we grow corals on our ocean-based farm
We are located in island of Sambangan, it's part of Karimunjawa  islands - northwest of Jepara, Central-Java, Indonesia. Sambangan island is a solitary, ± 10 hectare-island along with the two other island, Genting and Seruni forming a wide lagoon. Sambangan waters is still pure, clear and unpolluted, make it an ideal place for marine life cultivation. Currently we're cultivating various species  of coral, among them are Acropora sp., Montipora sp. and Pocillopora sp. in more than 30 subspecies in various colors. We're also cultivating various types of giant clams (Tridacna and Hippopus), which would be available by early 2005.
<Sounds good>
Now, we have coral frag ready for sale. Can you help me to look for USA importer. For more information can visit our website :
www.aquamarinefarm.com
<Will gladly introduce you to potential business associates here. I am bcc'ing a few here in the hopes they will contact you>
Thank you for your help and best regard
Gunawan
PT Pura Baruna Lestari
<Hope to visit your operation in future. Bob Fenner>\

Survey says! Your response please 2/04
Hello Mr. Fenner,
Ryan Bowen just dropped me quick note (see below) regarding a survey we are conducting. He suggested that you may be willing to post a note about the survey to encourage participation.
<Will post>
The survey is intended for saltwater aquarium hobbyists. We want to determine how production and marketing decisions (e.g., wild-caught vs. tank-bred; price; "arrive alive, stay alive" guarantees; "reef safe" assurances) affect purchasing decisions.
If you are willing to post an invitation about the survey. The survey start page can be found at:
http://agsurveys.org/hobby
There is a formal invitation letter there with further details. The survey site will be open until Wednesday, February 25th at noon EST. The preliminary results will be presented next week at the Marine Ornamentals '04 conference in Honolulu.
Thanks for your time,
Sherry
<No worries. Bob Fenner>
***************************************************
Sherry Larkin, Assistant Professor
Food and Resource Economics
Institute of Food and Agricultural Sciences
PO Box 110240
University of Florida
Gainesville, FL  32611-0240
(352)392-1845x431
slarkin@ufl.edu
fax:(352)392-3646
***************************************************
Hello!
My name is Ryan Bowen, I just took your survey.  
I write for a company called wetwebmedia.com, we answer lots of questions regarding saltwater setups.  
We have high traffic for such a site, and I believe that if you wrote Bob Fenner (Site owner, admin)(Crew@wetwebmedia.com) a quick email he'd be happy to post your survey.  We are all big fans of aquacultured and maricultured livestock, and recommend it daily.  
Good luck,
Ryan Bowen

Shipping boxes?
Crew, can any of you refer me to a West Coast vendor of EPS foam tropical fish shipping boxes with cardboard boxes?
Thanks, Suzanne Hathcock
<Do you need just a few? Am Bcc'ing friends/associates in the trade in the L.A. area hoping they will respond to you (am out in HI right now, w/o my ref.s). Bob Fenner>

Re: shipping boxes?
p.s. perhaps I should have mentioned that I'm near Portland, OR.
<Yes... do check with any local wholesaler of live aquatics re where they get their boxes from... Do you need other supplies like bags, clip machines... maybe the FTFFA could help here. Bob Fenner>

Re: shipping boxes?
hi Bob and thanks for your response.
<You're welcome>
Most suppliers I've talked to have a minimum order. For example, one yesterday in Florida, had a minimum of 160 small boxes. But in that case, the shipping from Florida was going to run as much as the boxes themselves.
<Yes... if you only need a few boxes you should either buy them from a local source or co-op ("piggy-back") a shipment with someone>
While I'm prepared to buy that many, I would prefer to be able to buy -- for example -- 75 of one size and 50 of another. Such an approach would give me greater flexibility while minimizing storage space requirements.
Originally I had planned to use Airliner inflatable packages from www.cargotech.com to minimize my storage needs. However, I've started to hear that some of the large LA shippers have stopped using them because of leakage problems. Have you heard anything about them?
Suzanne
<Never heard of them... Maybe I should ask what you are intending to ship. Bob Fenner>

Re: shipping boxes?
> <Yes... if you only need a few boxes you should either buy them from a local source or co-op ("piggy-back") a shipment with someone>
So far I've neither found a local source nor anyone else who buys these boxes. Most LFSs have huge supplies of wholesaler boxes that they recycle.
However, as a 25+ year graphic designer, I'm trying to come up with a more polished, professional appearance for my packaging. Besides my livestock, it will be the only tangible, visible representation of my company other than my web site that a customer will receive.
<Mmm, many folks use the cardboard outside as the "billboard", other than the Styro. These (the cardboard liners) can be made, printed locally perhaps>
I'm going to be selling corals and inverts online -- and books by famous authors such as yourself -:) Having bought lots of marine animals online myself, I can say that the professional appearance of packaging from LiveAquaria.com or Sea Dwelling Creatures lends a great deal of credibility to the company's image -- much more so than an obviously recycled cardboard box stuffed with slices of Styrofoam duct taped together as I've received from other dealers.
Suzanne
<Sounds good. Bob Fenner>

Re: shipping boxes?
> <Mmm, many folks use the cardboard outside as the "billboard", other than the Styro. These (the cardboard liners) can be made, printed locally perhaps>
That part's no problem. In fact, I was well on the way to having boxes printed to fit the inflatable Airliner packaging when I learned that it had fallen out of favor.
<I see>
Apparently the companies that make EPS foam boxes sell them with the cardboard boxes, in which case I could just do a nice custom mailing label.
This would be ideal for just starting out until I get a better fix on what sizes of boxes I'll need most often.
<Sounds good>
Gotta resolve this soon, because the longer my livestock sits around, the more I fall in love with all the corals and don't want to sell them!!!
By the way, one of your crew helped me with a sick fish problem awhile back... elevated nitrite. After numerous water changes with no drop in nitrites, I finally figured out that the water coming from my RO unit was contaminated (I'm a little slow). My brother-in-law who has a water filtration business suggested flushing it periodically with peroxide.
<Good idea... safe and effective. Bob Fenner>
Suzanne

Importing fishes UK 2/5/04
Hello,
<howdy>
hope you don't mind helping me - if you can with a few more queries I have about my marine fish?
<ready as always>
well I recently (2 weeks ago) received a shipment of marines from Singapore. I had 3 Copperband butterflies come (Which were subs) . I acclimatized them for a long period then let them go in their tank - all together, now these are the only inhabitants to the tank (other than 1 small blue damsel). I put the 3 together - and so far have not seen any aggression - maybe sometimes the slight flare up to each other- but no pecking or biting. all three fish
are feeding on brine shrimp and from whole cockles in shells - which I was quite amazed at as I have always seen this species as doomed once out of the ocean - unless in a very mature reef tank-
<not doomed, just delicate and commonly mishandled from some locales>
anyway , my question -over the past two days I have noticed a change in colour, their bands don't seem as bright, and their colouration, seems a little overall dull - not bleached
out - but not the vibrant colours you would expect - but water quality is high, 0nitrite and ammonia etc, all are feeding, none are being harassed - maybe a slight bickering between each other - which is to be expected - I thought that they would chase each other constantly! do you have any ideas what's causing this - should I be alarmed?
<its a general symptom... could be pale from bare glass bottom of tanks, light reflections, and most likely to some extent... the awful (barren) brine shrimp component of their diet (they will starve to death on it... please replace ASAP... Mysid shrimp would be nice)>
the other thing was, I am due a shipment from Hawaii, hopefully next week 9 it was cancelled last week as there has been bad weather from xmas island ??? and fish could net be collected??) so hopefully it will arrive this week - I have ordered the following
5x yellow sailfin tangs
5x flame angels
1x lemon peel angel
1x potters angel
<Hmmm... please do resist buying these angels unless you have/are a specialist. They make Copperbands look like hardy damsels <G>>
1x yellow eye Kole tang
1xtrumpet fish
I will house all the yellow tangs together on their own, the other single angels in their own, foot cube tank (which is on a system) but what I was wondering was your view on keeping the flame angels in a group?
<some aggression quite likely>
I have seen this done in a shop before - big group all together in the same tank - but do you think 5 would spark aggression?
<yes>
the tank they will go into would house no other fish - just them and a bit of decor? what are your thoughts?
<I suspect you need a much larger holding system (many more tanks) to succeed (your profits and their lives) as an importer>
if not it is possible for me to house them individually with other fish, would you think I could mix a flame with a potters angel?
<ughhh...no>
or do you think the colours are too similar and the potters being a little delicate that it might be a bad idea?
<this is a small order my friend. If you cannot house each of these fishes individually, I do not see how you are doing any justice here. It really sounds like you need a proper holding system>
another quick question - do you know of, or heard of use of drugs and poisons to collect fish from Sri Lanka? do you think this is a safe destination to source from?
<the quality is unpredictable due to the limited flights/times from Sri Lanka. The fishes are collected properly to the best of my knowledge>
the last fish I received were from Singapore - these being of very good quality - with 99% survival  
<that is exceptional>
- loosing only 1 fish - which to be fare was a bit squashed in the bag - and all these fish are feeding well - where, other than the us ( because of limited species) do you think it is best to source from, I have been offered Sri Lanka, Singapore, Indonesia, Hawaii, Miami and brazil from my consoler, I have sourced from Sri Lanka and Singapore as well as Miami with mixed success -
where do you feel is the best place - all Miami stock has done well, and most Singapore, Sri Lanka, depends some shipments are very good, others not so, this is why I ask about the use of chemicals.
<I would honestly like to know more about your facility (size/capabilities/pics) before helping you import more animals, with all due respect>
also I want to import coral next time, where do you suggest to order from? sorry its a lot again! thanks in advance, kind regards,
Sam Baker
<Sam... please don't take this the wrong way, but you sound like you have a home-based business. Your questions/problems have all of the earmarks of it. If not, you worry me if this is a small bricks biz. Your enthusiasm may be getting ahead of yourself. If I didn't mention it before, let me encourage you to subscribe to industry trade magazines, and definitely attend regional and national trade conferences. That way you can network and glean advice from other business folk like you as to what are the best sources to your country. We are limited in ability here from the US to give the UK advice on such matters when we have no experience with the challenges/nuances of your shipping channels (flights, common delays, etc). Anthony>

Making Connections in South Africa
Hi Bob, 
<Shaun> 
Well greetings from Sunny South Africa!! 
<Salutations from Hawai'i> 
Bob I am looking for your assistance, I am an importer of marine livestock in SA, I am based in Durban. 
<We have a good friend who has lived with us a dozen years who lived for fifteen in Swaziland> 
I import from most countries, but find it hard to get from the countries that you guys in the states are able to get stock from like Fiji, Tonga and 
a lot of the South pacific islands. 
<Perhaps the airlines are a factor...?> 
Countries we have good connections with are the Asia countries like Singapore and Indonesia, Philippines and therefore have suppliers there. 
<I see> 
Matt Silvester, suggested that you would be able to assist with some additional suppliers details in countries like Vietnam, Thailand etc. 
<Okay> 
If you know of any suppliers please can you drop me a line 
Regards 
Shaun Grant 
www.duraquatics.co.za 
<As is my habit, I will BCC friends, associates in the trade here and ask that they contact you if interested. Have you checked with the OFI? Their list of members? Bob Fenner>

Wholesale startup...
Hi folks,
<Hello>
I'm wondering if anyone can guide me in the right direction on what I need to prep for a wholesale start-up for tropical fishes (fresh and salt), corals and live rocks, on the legal side? I currently reside in California and I need to find out what's legal or illegal to import.  Also, there might be some restriction on livestock from certain countries and the like. Any input is appreciated. Thanks in advance...
<Whoa! There is MUCH to learn... and confluent with my "working philosophy" of offering help "appropriately" I/we need to not start "en media res" (in the middle of things)... there are other critical (as in deadly) aspects of this potential venture to know well... other than the legal side (there are laws, CITES, forms-a-plenty to fill out for import, often from exporting countries), but relationships to build (there are crooks in our trade, incompetents, non-A players... to sort through, discover, befriend)... What is your background in the industry? Do you have time to work for someone else for a few months? I WOULD NOT continue forward w/o this valuable experience (I won't be party to helping you fail, but will gladly introduce you to friends who are "doing what you want to do"). Bob Fenner>

Re: wholesale startup...
Bob,
<Steve>
Thanks a bunch for your prompt reply and invaluable advice. I apologize for not being able to get back any sooner... Back to the subject, I don't intend to do this "big" at all...
<Let's continue this conversation in a broad manner (for posterity, others edification). There is no way to "do this not big"... there is a severe "economy of scale" working against small-timers... the net-landed cost of small shipments (less than LD-3's) is enormously more per shipment, per organism... you won't be able to compete unless you can justify the one-shot costs of paperwork, CITES, the freight cost per kilo at container, 500 kilo rates...>
I'm really thinking of running this setup at home (garage or something), with a 3 - 5 hundred gallon reef setup. I happen to know some foreign suppliers who can get me great prices on live stock and rocks.
<We would need to define "great"... you'll soon find that there are many hidden and opportunity costs to "bringing in your own" livestock>
I only intend to be a supplier of LFS around my neighborhood. Only thing to sort out really are the logistics of import/export.
<I hope you have patience... for missed, delayed flights... and plenty of capital>
I 'm currently checking with California Fish & Game,  Food and Agriculture and USDA, especially for species that are protected and prohibited...Do you see any issue here?
<No real issue with the State, Fed.s... the real issues are human in general... as you will soon fully realize. Good luck my friend. Bob Fenner>
Thanks in advance for your time in this...

Importing livestock into Singapore
A person importing freshwater or marine ornamental fish into Singapore is required to be licensed by the Agri-Food & Veterinary Authority of Singapore (AVA). Thereafter, each consignment of fish must be declared and approved by the AVA before importation. However AVA allows each traveler to import not more than 50 pieces of ornamental fish (non-endangered & non-restricted species) in not more than 3 litres of packing water from overseas as part of one's carry-on luggage for personal keeping without applying for an import license or approval. The traveler should declare the fishes brought in to the Customs upon entering Singapore.
If you still have any further queries on import of ornamental fish, please do not hesitate to contact me at Tel: 6751 9809. Regards.

Buying corals wholesale 12/29/03
I have just discovered your site recently and learned a lot from it.  I myself have been a reefer for 8-9 years now.  To get to the point.  I have been getting coral out of Indonesia through Petsiam International and was wondering why you recommend getting them from Fiji .The shipments I get from Indo usually come in very nice with a surprisingly low mortality rate.  My usual mortalities usually come from airlines crushed boxes half froze etc..  I was wondering price quality shipping costs.  The corals I do buy I hold for about two weeks before selling them. If it is price and quality can you recommend some where a small wholesaler can buy from {400-700dollar minimum orders}.  me and my wife have a small operation 500 tanks mostly all freshwater dealing with small stores but slowly expanding. Any help or insight would help
Thank you, Nathan Poyner P.S. keep up the excellent work on the site.
<the difference is significant, my friend. Although you have had some good fortune getting few/small shipments from Indo... the overwhelming majority of dealers throughout the US do not have the same success/flight patterns, connections (or not) and conditions (time/temp) of transit as you do. And after you have been in the business long enough and handled enough volume (tens of thousands of pieces), the difference will be clear. Mortality and poor handling practices from Indo eliminate them as an option for most anybody that does not live near Los Angeles (the closest/best legal port of entry). All others really should consider other options like Fiji or simply buying from a wholesaler that tanks/QTs their specimens and have a good facility. This is the best use of a living resource if you will participate in the biz successfully and responsibly. Do find a good wholesaler in LA area like AM Aquatics (AM4fish.com). Best of luck, Anthony>

Invert exporter in the Philippines 12/16/03
Good Morning Bob
<Howdy>
I was looking through your archives and found a mention of an exporter in the Philippines looking for importers.  It was called DNB Aquatics, and Fe Baskin is the owner.  Have you got a contact number or email address you can pass along?
<Unfortunately no. We don't retain email addys, and his business doesn't show up in the "Buyer's Guide" issues... or the O.F.I. member directory...>
We've got a small importing company here in Canada and  I'm looking for an exporter specializing in inverts from the Philippines.   I've tried one other company based out of Cebu for inverts but would to see what this company can offer.  Any help is appreciated.
Best Regards
Anne
<Maybe Fe will see this and respond in turn... or another company. Would you like to list a means for them to contact you? Bob Fenner>

Re: starting up a store
<<Cheers, Matthew... Anthony Calfo below you in Pennsylvania following up with Bob's cc here>>
>  Also, we are located in Connecticut, and over the years I have become very friendly with some local shops, but still am not totally certain as to what method I want to go about stocking my tanks.  My concern is that I want to stock the tanks by reducing the stress on the fish as much as possible.  By any chance, would you know of any good local fisheries or markets in the Connecticut area that are easily accessible to a starting business?
> <Unfortunately no. But will ask Anthony here if he is familiar with any, and will post on WWM in the hope someone will respond>
<<several points to make here... briefly regarding your intent to reduce stress of initial stocking of tanks, do be sure to use a generous amount of cured live rock for invertebrate tagged marine systems...
and for fish only marine and freshwater filters, perhaps consider "supercharging" them in advance with Ammonium Chloride. Its inexpensive and easy to do...
easy to manipulate too - it will let you start a seeded biological filter and race it up to a strong colony just prior to stocking with fishes. I recall seeing Moe describe it in his classic Marine Aquarium References... and am sure recipes exist for it on the Net. It really is as simple as it (might) sound:
feeding a bunch of ammonia to a filter prior to putting it online for a fish load.
As to the regional suppliers... you have some challenges here. If you don't have direct flights (and I suspect not) to your nearest airport from Los Angeles, then you will be at least slightly compromised as to the quality and availability of livestock you can get. I would strongly suggest you get a jobber (fish picker) here to select your orders on site in LA from the best available stock. The other challenge is that there are no significant
distributors of wholesale marines in our region until you get down to New York and New Jersey. And frankly, they are not that good IMO. You would be better served by getting product first hand from the primary port of entry for most US marine tropicals: Los Angeles. With that said, you might also look into a Chicago supplier (there are several... like A-Pet) if you can get better flights to CT than from LA.
And has Bob has suggested... please start shopping the trade shows to get your feet wet and to network. We have the HH Backer Shows in Atlantic City and Chicago twice yearly. Also subscribe to a trade magazine like Pet Business or Pet Age to begin or finish your business plan. And last of all... be sure to write that business plan! Your chance at success will be greatly improved. Make your life easy and purchase some software like Business Plan Pro to do this. Some local business schools also often offer free counsel to local small business for start-up (classes and consultations... help writing biz plans, etc).
Best of luck, Anthony>
<Thank you Antoine. Bob>

From selling fish to selling a lifestyle by Alexis Hooi 
AS THE world's top exporter of ornamental fish, it takes just one day for Singapore dealers to deliver their products to any one of 80 countries. But Singapore's exporters, who have a 24 per cent share of the world market worth $300 million annually, are not taking it easy. They aim to increase this share and a new business group has been formed, bringing together exporters, government agencies and university researchers. Initiated by the Agri-Food and Veterinary Authority of Singapore (AVA), the Ornamental Fish Business Cluster Group is chaired by Mr. Kenny Yap, 38, managing director of a major player, Qian Hu Corporation. Its 15 other members include International Enterprise Singapore, National University of Singapore, Nanyang Technological University and Spring Singapore. Speaking at the opening of the four-day ornamental fish and aquarium accessories show, or Aquarama 2003, at the Singapore Expo yesterday, Minister of State for National Development and Trade and Industry Vivian Balakrishnan said businesses need to be proactive and not leave things to market forces alone. 'The industry must do more than just sell the fish, plants, tanks and accessories. It must sell a lifestyle.' That is exactly what the group proposes to do. It is currently looking into all aspects of the industry, said vice-chairman Ling Kai Huat, 50. Apart from technologies to improve the harvesting and packaging of fish, breeding, fish-health management and water-quality control will also be studied. There are also plans to develop more extensive certification programmes to train those in the business. Dr Ling, who is also head of AVA's Aquaculture Services Centre, said: 'Our main role is to reinforce Singapore as the top ornamental fish exporter of the world. We want to build the Singapore brand in this area.' Mr. Yap added: 'The ideal situation is to bring people to an environment where they can experience the activity and learn from there. Hopefully we can have an academy of ornamental fish, or something close to that.'  IP Address:192.169.41.171This message was forwarded to you from Straits Times Interactive (http://straitstimes.asia1.com.sg) 

Looking for industry contacts, specifically Dave Palmer
Hello Dr Fenner,
<Just Bob please, I have no doctorate degree or pretense to that title>
this is Almarzouqi who talked to you in the phone a month ago and I'm the founder of NCPARS.COM (north central pa aquarium reef society) I was searching the net for contact information about transship companies and was looking for any contacts from Jakarta, Solomon island, Hawaii, marshal island and came across article and replies that you have to other people. I would like to know if you know anybody or have any contact that will be interested to ship corals and fish to east coast once a week or once every two week in a big quantity?
<Yes, a few. I will BCC them here in hopes they will contact you>
I have came across Dave Palmer's name and could not find any contact info and he is the one who gets Solomon island.
<Now in Los Angeles. You may call him at 310-406-1235>
  Any info you will give me will be appreciated and will help me a lot with my project that hope will be one of the big projects in east coast. I will be traveling to Middle east, Asia soon to get some work from there and I'm also working with Oman and the UAE to set a station there.  I did not want to call you pass 9 pm eastern time as I did not know what time is your bed time and hope to hear from you soon.
Thanks ahead
Almarzouqi
<Be chatting, Bob Fenner>

Hey Dr. Fenner,
This is Dr. Smith here. You have given this guy my home number. Dave's business number for PAF is 310 215 3474.
Yikes!
Cheers,
Walt
<Yowzah! Thanks. Will amend my ways and this number. Bob>

Livestock Contacts Intl.
Dear Bob,
good to hear from you. I found Dave Palmer a week ago and got 10 boxes of corals and fish from him to start on Saturday. I will appreciate if you can help me find some contacts with Bali, Jakarta, Kupang, Vietnam and other areas.  I know that you have good contacts and Dave was very nice and so his helper Sylvia. Thanks ahead..
Yours Almarzouqi
<I will send out your request to others in the industry here as I usually do, that is Bcc'ed so that they can volunteer individually if interested. Bob Fenner>

Fish collecting business
Hi,
I have been in search on information about a new business I have in mind and since I found your website I have been able to find a lot of valuable information. I will planning on starting a fish collecting business in west Africa. I know I am faced with a lot of challenges. My plan is to setup my facility, begin collection and have the facility running for a few months before I start sourcing wholesalers.
<Actually, I would start this last right now. A very good idea to "go to this step" now in determining who you will sell to, what they are willing to pay, how they want to and can be shipped to (airfreight carriers, CITES, Customs, forwarders...), concurrent with your giving them some idea of what you have available. It may well be that these same folks can/will help you in gathering tools, materials, maybe even personnel to build out your collecting station and gear for shipping livestock>
I am also thinking of breeding some of the local species and hoping that down the road I will be able to rely more on aquaculture for fish I supply.
<... this is an entirely different business... much time, facilities, many hours involved in making a go... Do you have partner/s in this endeavor already? You will need at least one if you intend to do both collecting and aquaculture, plus employees>
Well my question is a business like this still viable in today pet industry and would it be difficult to find wholesalers willing to buy.
<Depends on what you have, can get, the pricing AND airfreight cost and availability... and even if your country's government will allow it. Do you know of existing businesses of your type that are in operation currently? I strongly encourage your talking with, visiting them... even working with/for them for a while>
Is there any article that will answer some of the questions I might have.
Thanks
Dayjee
<Welcome to our industry. I can and will help you if you'd like. By answering your general queries, introducing you about to some of the players in international markets. At this point, do you have a good idea of what sorts of livestock you will have available, in what numbers (sustainably)... how you're going to hold and ship them... to which countries? Bob Fenner>

Re: fish collecting business
Thanks Mr. Fenner, for your response. would you happen to have anyone in the northeast that I could talk to.
Dayjee
<Mmm, not off hand. Is it possible for you to visit locations where collecting is a business. Maybe Hawai'i? Bob Fenner>

Looking for some exporter info for Mexico
Bob,
I have come across your name a number of times and was hoping you made be able to help.  I am looking for a source in Mexico who is able to export Turbo Snails in large quantities.  Let me know if you can help.  Thanks in advance.
Dave
<Mmm, do contact Leroy Headlee of G.A.R.F. re this: http://www.garf.org/
Bob Fenner>

Florida Ricordea
Hello,
       I am hoping you can answer my question or at least guide me in the right direction. I am looking for a wholesaler that sales Ricordea. I am looking to buy several polyps to start a propagation system solely for as many different colors of Ricordea I can possibly find. Any help in locating one will be greatly appreciated.
<I'd give Dick Perrin at Tropicorium, http://www.tropicorium.com/ a call/visit. Bob Fenner>

Amazon tropical fish and stingrays from Venezuela
Dear Sirs.: We are a Venezuelan company established 10 years ago dedicated to the exportation of Amazon Tropical fishes and fresh water stingrays. In the past years our markets involved Germany, Japan and some cities of North-East of the United States of America, with an excellent record.
Now, we are in disposition to present to your prestige company our great selection of Amazon fishes and our special stingrays of fresh water (wild caught).
We are delivering in our commitment in sending the best quality, healthiest and beautiful fishes in the market and a constant wide range of species.
We are dedicated to offer our customers an excellent service and prompt replies. After all, this is a long-term business relationship we are trying to make.
Please, send us an e-mail and we will talk how we can do business together.
Thank you for your time.
Sincerely yours,
Rafael E. Cárdenas
<We aren't directly involved in the trade (that is commercially), but can/will post your message, URL (if you have a website), or e-address on WetWebMedia.com's aquatics business subweb if you'd like. Please send along the information you want posted. Bob Fenner>

All Seas (LA)
Dear Bob,
Do you have ALL SEA MARINE contact number or email address? I just can't find them on net.
<They have no net address or email contact. Their number in Torrance (California) is 310-532-7769, fax 324-5501. Ask for Ted or Edwin Chua. Bob Fenner>
Thank you.
Cheers,
Charles

Imports
Hi Guys.
<Hello Steve>
Love reading your site and following the links....wish we had something here in the UK like WWM.
<Start one>
Anyhow, I am involved with a company called Acropora House with a specialization in SPS corals, Live Rock and of course marine fishes.
<I see>
We are looking to expand our supply base to bring in direct imports from Hawaii, Marshall Islands and Fiji/Bali.
<Okay>
We are looking to buy 1500kg - 3000Kg + of Live Rock per time and bring in SPS corals and fish as well. I have been speaking with Waterlife Fiji (do you know of them) but was kinda hoping you might have a contact in Hawaii , Marshall Islands or someone else out Fiji/Bali way who you might recommend. I have tried to get hold of Walt Smith Inc. via email but no reply to date. If not do you know of a European transhipper that might wanna get involved. We are looking for quality livestock products.....not just the cheapest.
Hope you can be of assistance.
<Do you belong to the OFI? You might use their member list, resources to contact folks who could help you. I have Bcc'ed several friends, associates in the trade, including Walt Smith. I am hoping that some will follow-up here and contact you. Bob Fenner>
Regards and Best Wishes
Steve Tope

Re: Imports
Hi Bob
<Steve>
Many thanks for your reply. We have a couple of sites here for Marine Enthusiasts but none so quite as in depth as WWM. I hope on our new website that we will have a few links.......can we post yours up as one ??
<Absolutely>
OFI..........no we are not members/ don't belong. We are a newish company. I will try and find a link and go about researching.
<Take a look at/through their site: http://www.ornamental-fish-int.org/ especially the Member's Directory by country>
Thanks for Bcc'ing people you know. If any should get in contact, I will let you know and pass on our thanks. We struggle here in the UK as we are not mainland Europe or the States so kinda get overlooked by a lot of people even though the marine industry is big business.
<Not for long>
Thanks for your help
<Glad to be of assistance. Bob Fenner>
Steve Tope

Golden Generation Inc 
Hi Bob,
Do you have Golden Generation Inc website and email address? Tried to find but unsuccessful.
<Have been there (LA) and talked with them... but can't find their address or number at the office or on the Net. Are they still in business? Bob Fenner>
Thank you.
Cheers,
Stephen

UK Startup Dealer - 8/16/03
dear sir do you know of any one who can assist me in setting up a small import business of captive bred soft corals, I am mainly after importers addresses and phone numbers thanking you in anticipation of your help mark
<From America, I'm not sure how best we can help you short of direction for you to find a trade magazine (in the US we have "Pet Business" and "Pet Age/Pet Supplies Marketing") or journal (or even contact PIJAC the industry lobbyist organization in your country). Please do browse the many links we have for aquatic business starting from the homepage at www.wetwebmedia.com. Also, be sure to make a business plan for yourself. Seek software like Business Plan Pro perhaps. Most businesses fail that do not write a plan. Best of luck. Anthony>

Import of Ornamental fish
Dear Bob,  
It was great joy reading yr forum and I realized that I need to write to you regarding about importing of ornamental fishes.  I hope that with your contacts in this industry, you can help me with the following;
I need contacts for reliable exporters from Hawaii and brazil, also any exporters that export corals with cites to Singapore? I tried to contact Wayne Ocean World from Hawaii recently but to no avail. There phone no and fax seems to be terminated and there was no reply from the email.  Hope you could help me out on this one. With appreciation, Yeow.
<Might I ask a bit about your business? Are you a retailer? A jobber of sorts, or a wholesale distributor of marine livestock? About how much volume do you do, enough to warrant an LD3? Can/do you co-opt shipments with anyone in Sing currently? Bob Fenner who will be there on Tuesday>

Costa Rican exporters
Dear Mr. Fenner,
Can you tell me how to contact Catalina Castro in Costa Rica? If not can you give me some information on exporters in Costa Rica? I look forward in hearing from you. Thanks for all of your time.
<Don't know this person, and unfortunately am out of town (in Hawai'i) right now. Do you have access to the OFI member listings? Or Pet Business Magazine's annual Buyer's Guide issue? I just checked OFI's on-line member list: http://www.ornamental-fish-int.org/ and there are none listed in Costa Rica. Good luck, Bob Fenner>
Best Regards,
David Donovan  

Artificial corals & fish
Guys,
I am looking for leads to some ethical importers of marine fish for a friend. Fe Baskin is the widow of Dave Baskin who was the creator of the ASI ReeForms corals ten years ago. They had set up a collection station in the Philippines and were just starting to ship fish and inverts when he died of stomach cancer early this year. Her family operation is currently shipping limited numbers to Holland but would like to start exporting to the USA. Originally they were collecting for custom exhibits. Of course it is all net collected and they are working with Ferdinand Cruz who has been working with the net collection training and has spoken at Marine Ornamentals on the Philippine situation. Her description of their operation is below. Any help would be appreciated.
Regards,
Tom
<Tom I will circulate amongst friends, associates in the trade I consider of excellent practices in hopes they can/will contact you. Bob Fenner>
From: Fe Baskin
Hi! Tom,
Thanks for the reply I was so upset and busy it takes me few days to recover. Any way we are using MAC guideline even if its ridiculous How can you ever trace a single damsel fish? But I have no choice so I will work with them its all lip service anyway. More of WWF propaganda.
Our weekly output will be 40-50 boxes a week but We will have stock in the field instead for the next shipment. I am shipping to Holland . Our client provide list of fish beforehand so we give the list to our collectors and we don't end up collecting fish that are not needed. That's the advantage of the field operation its a pain in the neck because we end up taking care of the fisherman but the control that you can get is worth it. We will have the stock of fish ready for shipment but the same amount will be in the cages ready to be shipped when we give them the signal. Also the Island where we operate we can collect all year round and the variety is there. No fancy blue face (seldom seen and fisherman usually said they are big). The supply will come all over the Island but mainly in Mindoro Island where our operation will be located. So much invertebrates are available if there is a demand the buyer can tell me. Our buyer in Holland he is a nice guy like you! Have technology in the shipping and he come to the Philippines every 3 months he adopted a 28 year old Filipina.
Paperwork are being process I will name the company DNB AQUATICS . What do you think? Our supervised collecting station in Mindoro Island we have cages in the ocean .Fish are not feed in the cages they stay there 3-5 days depending on the size. Another few days in the facility before shipping, we use individual small container per fish to avoid fin damage. Ferdinand will supply from Palawan, Bicol and Bolinao . We shipped fish in bags from the field less stress to the fish. We had a lot of hands on experience because we did it ourselves so many times. In the packing for shipment I got the best but they are part time in the beginning so I don't have a lot of overhead.
I really appreciate your help I know you are busy . Thank you and regard to Terri , Lisa (hug her for me she is special) and kisses to the new born I can't wait to meet them. Bye! for now and Take care

Glad to meet him at "Aquarama Show 2003" in Singapore
Hello,  Bob & Anthony,
<Howdy>
Your webpage is wonderful and excellent information both for hobbyists as well as trade/business friends.   I have got to know you through Barry of ClamsDirect who also introduced us to Walt Smith & Sea Dwelling Creature & others.
<Oh, yes>
  But for past months have been very busy with my Marine Fish & Corals Business in Singapore.   We are an importer, exporter, wholesaler & retailer of marine fishes, invertebrates, soft & hard corals, live rocks & Tridacna clams (all with CITES Permits) from neighboring & Pacific Countries for only 2 years over.     Most of our Hard Corals (with CITES Permits) are from neighboring countries and Vanuatu.  So far we still have bring in shipment from Walt Smith as the market in Singapore is too small and that already there are about 3 local importers who brought in their orders from Walt Smith, it's like fighting for a small piece of cake.   In fact, Smith & his staff Devi had given us a call about 3 months back about placing an order with them and are considering so maybe in the next few months just to cater for our overseas customers.  Do you think if we will to place order with them,  you can assist us by giving  them a word of giving us 'rare or special'
species of the corals just like what Edwin brought in his shipment,   appreciate very much for your kind words.
<Do just mention this to Tim (McLeod) there (Fiji) re what you're looking for. I'll cc them here>
Glad to know you will be attend the "Aquarama Show" in Singapore on 10th October '03 and our great honour & pleasure to welcome you.
<Actually, we'll miss the show this year and be in the Marquesas instead>
  I think you might be very busy meeting trade friends & hobbyists from various countries as well as  Edwin (the new LFS)   &  Perry Chong.      We will be definitely there and of much pleasure if we can invite you & friends to our premise and seek your professionally advices on various subjects.      
<Sorry to miss you>
By the way,  will be glad to know Perry Chong as well,  appreciate if you could introduce us to him or maybe in fact we already know each other except does not get to know each other names.
<Yes. Will cc Perry here as well>
     And as for Edwin, we know each other for quite something since he was our walk-in customer 2 years back and he has just started his shop about 1 month ago and last week  come in a shipment from Walt Smith.
Could you kindly also advise us, what if we do not have a website for our company, is it possible to put an advertisement at  your webpage and how much is the charges,   sorry have not really go through the pages at related webpages as recently extremely too busy.
<Will cc Mike Kaechele who handles the bulk of our "ad sales">
Meanwhile, we look forward to your favourable reply of visiting our premises and your great advices, suggestions & comments, please let us know your decisions so that we will arrange a few vehicles for the  pick up.     Appreciate if you could kindly pass around or introducing our company to your trade friends and hope you can cast your net further with more recommendation of exporters & importers to us.
<Will post your message, BUT do consider making/having a "good" website describing your business (and images!) so others can find you>
Hereby attached our introduction letter of our company & name card for your kind reference and comments.
Sorry for not able to write good sentences and express yourselves.
Thank You  & Best Regards
Steve Benjamin Chong ---- HP 065 - 98178144
New Trio Fisheries
<Be seeing you, Bob Fenner>

Cherry Picker in LA?
Hi Bob,
   We spoke about two weeks ago at the Desert Marine Society in Phoenix.  You're presentation was excellent, and so was the beer, I think.
   You had mentioned the name of a cherry picker in LA that you recommended to some of the other LFS's but I must have missed it.  I'm looking for the best, and willing to pay a premium to get good inverts.
   I'd really appreciate it if you could give me a shove in the right direction.
  Thank you very much,
  Brian Mihlfeith
  Ocean Art Aquariums
  Phoenix, AZ
<Howdy, and sorry re the delay in responding (just back from a trip). Do try: AM4fish.com and chat with Erik, Oh, and the fine fellows at FishHead: Sales@fishheadsinc.com
Bob Fenner>

Marine Biz 7/9/03
Mr. Fenner,
<Anthony Calfo in his stead>
I write as I need some advise/assistance with marine aquaria livestock. I am (or at least consider myself) an experienced marine aquarist, and have been doing it as a hobby and operating a small high-end install/display business (peaceful, community reef tanks only), since about 1980, which I started in Vail, CO (keeping marine tanks at 8200', with 30% less O2 is an art in it self). I take great pride in my work and try to be as knowledgeable as possible.
<good to hear>
I do agree with the concept that we, as marine keepers have a duty to provide a high quality environment for our wards so they may live out their normal life spans.  
<or longer as is often the case in good hands>
My most outrageous story was when I was in one of our LFS a while back, there was a guy in there buying a Volitans Lion, a Picasso Trigger and a Snowflake Moray.  After he left, the guys at the store were laughing as he comes in every 3 months and buys the same 3 animals, and is trying to keep them in a 30 gallon tank!  That was the last time I set foot in there.
<indeed... the feet are the best way to vote disapproval as a consumer. Carry your dollars away>
I have learned, I read all I can get my hands on, and in the last decade have succeeded in not only keeping almost everything I set my hand to, but have done so well with some of my tanks that we have to regularly harvest corals (soft and hard), macro algae's, snails, etc., which we find new homes for, but I have a small problem I am unable to figure out. While I have no problem keeping some seastars (brittles and serpents), I have the black hand with Linckia and Fromia.  Every single one (about 5, I will not buy anymore unless I can figure out my problem) never makes it out of quarantine (everything gets quarantined for 4 weeks before it goes into any display).  They invariably develop "the rot", where they start to deteriorate a the tip of an arm and it progresses until the animal dies (and it drives me nuts to watch).  I have carefully selected the specimens to assure they appear healthy and do not have any visible damage or parasites.  Once it begins I have tried cutting off the arm well below the infected area to no avail.  
<the first problem is the source of most of these animals on import (poor handling/shipping that dooms many from the start). Too many folks are willing to try a cheap Philippine or Indo Blue Linckia rather than spend for better specimens shipped in larger bags (as from Hawaii). The price diff and survivability are much different. A case of getting what you pay for. The second problem is that very few aquarists really are prepared to care for these stars. They are very hungry deposit feeders that need mature aquaria (over 1 year old) at a rate of one star per 100 gallons or more! Indeed... nowhere near as hardy or forgiving as the Ophiuroid brittle stars>
Are there any decent texts that address disease in inverts?
<there is more address of invertebrate pathogens in the academic literature... do tap your local college library of sciences. Have you also seen our new book on Reef Invertebrates?:
https://secure.wetwebmedia.com/order_form.jsp
http://wetwebfotos.com/store/nma-ri.html>
Our tanks are kept at 78-80 degrees, sg 1.024, ph 8.3 (very stable) Ca425, Mag 1200, KH 12-14, Bor 2,  Str 12,  Na 10, (since I installed a plenum it went to 10 ppm and stays there even if I do not do water changes, which I normally do 20% on the display, 50% on quarantine filled from display, every 2 weeks), O2 5-6, Ammonia, nitrites, phosphates, silicates, copper all 0, I add iodide and iron supplements but never enough to get a reading with my test kits (Seachem), the quarantine tanks are filled from a very healthy and mature 400 gal display with a refugium, we use Hawaiian Marine salt, the water is RO/DI, they have lots of live rock and sand (except for the hospital tanks) with good copepod populations, protein skimmers,  UV sanitizers, excellent circulation, halide lighting, weekly supplements (both phytoplankton and amino acid/trace elements).  I have attached a photo of the display in my office (sorry for the poor quality, crappy camera).
The only other animals I have any trouble with are Catalaphyllia and Helio-Fungia, neither of which I seem to get along with,
<the common problem here is that they are never fed well enough in captivity. These are very hungry corals that get perhaps no more than 70% of their daily sustenance from the translocation of carbon from zooxanthellae. These corals need target fed organismally several times weekly with meaty fare>
but do very well with many other stony corals, both small and large polyp, including Plerogyra sinuosa and gorgonians, several of my anemones have divided and grown like mad (I have a Macrodactyla doreensis that has gone from about 4" across to more than a foot in under a year).
Any idea what I am doing wrong?  There is sufficient detritus for them to feed on
<detritus is not even an appetizer for these two groups... they need course zooplankton like Mysis shrimps. 3-5 times weekly IMO for most>
but I have yet to get one to last 4 weeks and absolutely do not
want to be responsible for the demise of anymore, but have a couple of customers who would really like one.
<Fungia is much hardier than Heliofungia... and beware that many elegants are now being collected in very deep water (purple tips) and will not tolerate bright light at first or at all (no MH)>
My second question is, is there a decent, reputable marine livestock wholesaler out there, who can and will deal with the animals by proper names, not common names, and actually ship healthy, quality animals, and what was ordered.  
<I like Quality Marine and Aquatic Marines (both LA)>
Preferably one who also handles captive raised animals.  I get tired of crappy shipments with high mortality rates (in one case 50%, in the box just 6 hours), frequently the wrong animals (even if I give them proper name and a photo reference, I just received 2 Zanclus cornutus that were shipped as Heniochus diphreutes ).  I do not do enough business to use a broker, most require orders in the thousands per week or month, I do one every couple of months, just to fill my customers orders (I do NOT operate a retail storefront, and do not want to!).
<you really need a jobber to hand pick from QT stock... well worth the money spend (lower mortalities and much better cherry picked animals. Do look at AM4fish.com and chat with Erik>
I await your reply.  You may call if that is more convenient for you or if you have any questions. Please feel free to forward this message if you feel it necessary. Most sincerely, Mark Simon
<best of luck, mate. Anthony>

Chicago Bali Transhipper search 7/9/03
I am trying to find the same  wholesaler Bryan Thompson (AKA Blowfishaquatics  buddy of mine) is looking at who is in Chicago. This wholesaler will allow you to transship from Bali or pick stuff out of their stock. Can you help? Thank you, Rob
<the best way to find this or any such industry entity is through your merchant directories. If not already, do subscribe to Pet Business, Pet Age/Pet Supplies marketing trade journals. I like Pet Business best. Seek their annual directories for reference. Else try a PIJAC membership... great for resourcing. Hope to see you at once of the industry trade shows or conferences... MACNA in Indiana/Louisville this year: http://www.lmas.org  Anthony>

Website Link
Dear Mr. Bob Fenner & Mr. Jason C. ,
Let us introduce our company - PIRANTI AQUATICA - as Indonesian Exporter of Ornamental Fish & Aquatic Plant. We are very interested to be listed in your Link section, under Business - Live Stock Sources : Freshwater Fish section. For your further consideration, please review our website : www.pirantiaquatica.com .
Hope it can meet your requirement to be listed.
Thank you very much & Happy fish business !
Best regards,
Elan Patria
Piranti Aquatica
Jakarta - Indonesia
<Thank you for your note. Will post your link tomorrow. Bob Fenner>

Wholesale suppliers
The Crew @ WWM,
I have been a long time fan of wetwebmedia. You guys have been doing a great job. I have been in the fish industry for 10 years now. I have an offer to take over a wholesale Business and I need some guidance on Livestock. I am residing in North California and has no clue on how or where to find a supplier to marine coral and fish. Please help me get on track and point me in the right directions.
                                      Thanks
                                      Lost in Cali
<You can imagine the mixed feelings... wanting to help you, and oppositely wanting to warn you of the difficulty of operating in the livestock part of our trade. If you don't know who or where to find the major suppliers... how do you think you can run this part of your business? There are a few guides to "Who's Who" in the trade (Pet Business Magazine just came out with their annual "buyer's guide" that lists many). Do you have time to come down to Los Angeles to meet these suppliers? If so, I'll introduce you. Bob Fenner>

Adding saltwater to inventory- retailer 6/4/03
I am helping a friend with her pet store and we would like to add saltwater fish to our selection.  I am having trouble finding a system to display them in,
<hmmm... the commercial ready-made systems are rather expensive to say the least, and many of them are not at all practical.>
I really do not want to build our own.  
<do consider... more economical and often more efficient. Visit local and regional competitors to see systems you find admirable>
I was thinking along the lines of a MARS system or the likes there of.  
<have had personal experience with these units... beyond aesthetics, they are poorly designed and constructed in my opinion. Undersized drains and returns (flow), poor ventilation below (trapping heat of chillers counterproductively... and worst of all... particle board components near water?!?>
We are looking for maybe a total of 250gals or so.  In our area there is very little offered to customers.  We do have a
Petco but their specialist is no longer with them and their tanks have already crashed. (I was the specialist)  I want to help my friend corner the market here.  
<we have a lot of good information in articles and FAQs on the pet fish biz here on our website:
http://www.wetwebmedia.com/AqBizSubWebIndex/Biz%20Index/Biz%20index.htm >
Do you know of any good suppliers of livestock for a mom and pop store in eastern PA?  
<your best is to find a fish-picker/jobber in LA to hand-select from the best wholesalers there each week. Else, livestock quality will be random week to week... its the nature of the game with so many wild caught animals>
If you have any links that might be useful in obtaining what
we need I would appreciate it. Thank you, Caryn Heffner
<Quality Marine (http://www.qualitymarineusa.com/home.html) is one of my favorite wholesalers (have used them in several businesses for the last 15 years. Even then, however, I still use a picker to select for me... never take what the random worker will give to fill your order. I just chatted with a very intelligent and well-versed chap today that has an established business in LA for wholesaling/jobbing [we have mutual friends that also spoke very highly of them:
Erik & Dennis Reynolds at Aqua Marines Hermosa Beach, Ca 90254-0926
310-379-2581, 310-318-2202 (fax)
Consider contacting them and getting their information. They have a website too at www.am4fish.com
Best regards, Anthony>

List marine fish (Brazilian source)
<Thank you. Will post your name, address on our "Livestocking" part of our business subweb on WetWebMedia.com
Bob Fenner>
Iguaba ocean ornamental fishes exporter
Rua São Pedro # 37 ; CEP: 22254-032
São Pedro - Rio de Janeiro / BRASIL
TELEPHONE: + 55 (21) 2595-3223
FAX: + 55 (21) 2264-8222
E-MAIL: iguabaocean@vento.com.br

Bali transhipper in Chicago 5/03
I am trying to find a wholesaler who is in Chicago.  This wholesaler will allow you to transship from Bali or pick stuff out of their stock.
Another store is buying from them but they will not give me the name of the wholesaler.  Can you help.
Bryan
Blowfish Aquatics, Inc.
(317)714-1685
<Don't know either, but will post on our root web in hopes that someone does and will contact you. Bob Fenner>

DAVE PALMER
Hi Mr. Fenner,
I would like to touch base with Mr. Palmer regarding importing/transship T. clams & Prog. corals. I was reading the "FAQs about the Giant Clams Business" section; also I hear his name articles on the Internet. If you can help me with his contact info, I'll appreciate it.
<You can reach Dave through Pacific Aquafarms: pafarms@earthlink.com >
Thank you in advance.
Best Regards,
Ertan
<Welcome. Bob Fenner

Saltwater livestock importation
Hello, My name is Lee. I have a question about importing saltwater fish. You might not be able to help me but if you know someone who can please ask them to email me.   I am opening up a saltwater aquarium shop this summer and I was thinking about importing fish in the future. I already have my import license. I am going to buy wholesale for now and then later when I can expand I would like to import.
<Please read here: http://www.wetwebmedia.com/AqBizSubWebIndex/bizlvstkfaqs.htm
and the next Related FAQs file (linked, in blue, at top)>
I have thought about this and it is something I would like to do.  I was wondering if there was a place I could find how to acclimate imported fish once you receive them. I have heard they are hard to acclimate. But I really would like to try to import my own fish. If you could give me any help and advice I would appreciate it.
<Please read here: http://www.wetwebmedia.com/acclimat.htm>
I am a very determined person with plenty of help. I know I could do this but the people I have talked to are not very helpful. They just try to talk me out of it.
<Perhaps it is their assessment that this is not a good idea for you. Much to be learned, related here. I strongly encourage you to go work with someone for a while... see what is involved here...>
So I will buy from them instead. Would you please email me your help and advice. I am usually at work during your show. That is why I am emailing you.   Thank you for your help in advance. Lee
<Bob Fenner>

Breeding, supplying cichlids for profit
Hello,
For the past month or so I have been researching everything I can find on breeding and importing Cichlids.  That's when I came across your website which is great, very informative.  I want to start a business supplying the local fish stores and general public with high quality Cichlids as the selection around me is pretty pitiful.
<Where are you located?>
Eventually I may put up a website but I'm kind of far from an airport so I'm guessing shipping would be difficult.
<Yes, possible trouble. How will you get your live product to your customers? Have you looked into FedEx, UPS?>
This is my second attempt at breeding Cichlids for profit.  The first time I tried I did everything wrong and ended up getting out of it.
This time I want to start out right and I'm hoping you can help.  In your experience is it possible for me to make money supplying local fish stores?
<Has been done, yes>
I don't need to make a fortune (it would be nice though) I'm just looking to bring home some extra cash. Also Could you supply me with maybe a punch list of things to do to get started.  Also maybe some tips on how to set-up my tanks and centralized filter system to make it as maintenance free as possible without costing me a fortune.
<These items are archived on the WWM site. Do read through the Business Index/subweb>
I will continue to read the articles on your site as I'm sure most of the information I'm looking for is in there.  But I am eager to start and was hoping you could direct me to the right articles or provide any help you can.  Thanks in advance for your help.
Thanks, Steve Bruni
<Do study and keep good notes for now... while drawing up plans, looking for used gear (in good shape). Bob Fenner>

Buying wholesale
How do I go about buying fish/corals from wholesalers in L.A. do I need a license, permit?? Can you please enlighten me with your infinite wisdom
<Mmm, don't agree with the in in infinite, but either you must present proof that you're "in the trade"... as in a business license and maybe a business card, or go with someone who can/does have such proof. A few wholesalers don't sell to service companies (just to LFS, institutions...). Best to "go in" if you're uninitiated with someone who is established. Bob Fenner>
Thanks again, and again, and again
Joe Grunstad

Opening a fish retail store (livestock importation possibilities)
I have been reading a lot on the matter over the past few months, including your wonderful site, but I'm having trouble getting information on permits that I might have to obtain to sell marine and tropical fish.  I tried looking at the US Fish & Wildlife website with no luck, is this something for importers/exporters only?
<For the most part, yes. The "economies of scale" (how much livestock your store/systems can hold, how much you can expediently sell... and the costs... per shipment of paperwork, Customs, CITES, freight and possibly forwarding...) of a single store versus a larger distributor are prohibitive. Much more likely you will buy your fish and non-fish from livestock wholesalers. These are listed on our "Links" pages>
Also if I do have to buy a permit is there a list of fish that are "ILLEGAL" to have in my store that will be provided.  Thanks for you time, Ryan.
<There are some Statewide illegal organisms (per state) that you can read about or get info. from your "Fish and Game" or "Dept. of Natural Resources" civil servants... As far as I'm aware, only the walking catfish, Clarias batrachus is illegal nationwide. Bob Fenner>

Wholesale tropical marine fish  and  freshwater
Subject: introduction 2003
dear sirs ;
many thanks for your time !!
we would like to introduce our company ; we  are specialized on live ornamental fishes with more than 10 years of experience !!
we are able to dispatch fishes around the world on airline company or use a good broker in los angles or Miami (U.S.) also some in Europe !!
our collection came from nature to you without any chemical substance ; they are caught by net ; one per one ; just to keep the quality of fishes !!
if you be interested on our pricelists; feel free to contact us at any time and we will be very glad to support you at any time !
best regards !
Ruller <iguabaoc@momentus.com.br>
<Do you have a website or should folks contact you at the above (Brazilian) address? Bob Fenner>

About your articles
Dear Bob,
<Hello Wendy>
My name is Wendy Legeret and I live in Iron Mountain, Michigan.  In June, more likely July of this year, I am will be opening up a tropical fish store to hobbyists and businesses.  If I'm not mistaken, I saw on your website articles pertaining to stocking a business like mine.  However, when I went to click on the article, all that came up was the title.  Is there another way to read your articles or can I find them in a magazine of some sort?  
<Mmm, maybe not written (and the "article" page being used as a "place-marker"), but perhaps just not placed yet. Can you give me the exact location (the URL) of what you're looking for?>
I am really looking for both marine and fresh fish suppliers.  My competition in the past has told me that no fish supplier, especially marine, will go beyond Green Bay, Wisconsin, which is about two hours south of my location.  I need to have a supplier that will come further than Green Bay, obviously!!!
<Mmm, if your business volume warrants it, you are likely looking at ordering from marine livestock wholesalers (or "jobbers"... i.e. intermediates who hand-pick such and forward) who will ship to your nearest airport... and possibly a freight forwarding company in concert. These businesses are centered around major international airports (Los Angeles, Chicago, Miami, New York...)>
If you can point me in the right direction or if you can help me out in any way, I would be most grateful.
<Please see our aquatics business links page: http://www.wetwebmedia.com/AqBizSubWebIndex/bizlinkspg.htm
there are listed, linked a few of the major suppliers (in the middle row...)>
Thank you so much!
Wendy Legeret
Wendy's Blue Lagoon
http://www.wendysbluelagoon.com
<Congratulations on your new store and welcome to our trade. Bob Fenner>

Sri Lanka Fishes
Hi Bob n gang, I am a new fish trader in Malaysia.  I am buying some marine fishes for my company and I was wondering what is the quality of Sri Lankan fishes like, compared to Philippines and Indonesia?  The Sri Lankan fishes seem to be priced slightly higher than Indo-Philippines, and I was hoping that they are better conditioned.
<The most experience I have with marine livestock from Sri Lanka is second hand and from visiting with folks in the trade from there at the Interzoo shows. IMO there are good to not so good businesses in both countries. I would judge that more good companies are in Sri Lanka however>
Also, any idea of cyanide usage in harvesting fishes in Sri Lanka?
<Not as far as I've ever heard.>
I hope that you are able to lend me some of your experience. Thanks John
<Do share your experiences when you've bought in a few shipments. Bob Fenner>

Transshipping
Hello Folks.
Can Someone clear something up! Exactly what is a transhipper??? Are they middlemen behind a phone desk? Do they have a holding facility etc. etc.??
<This is more of a "lack of service" than anything. Transshipping involves "passing on" boxes, whole cans (air cargo containers) of livestock, often w/o opening (to change water, re-oxygenate) in efforts to save money (in piggybacking orders, batching CITES, Customs... charges, gaining breaks in freight costs by volume, constancy...) and passing on to your "customers"... Most transshipping is done by folks who otherwise have wholesale/holding facilities, but the present slip-sliding arrangement of dealers in the trade includes many variations on this theme. Most often it's retailers and etailers looking to save money who tranship. A note re this process: UNLESS one has the time, resources, expertise to acclimate, hold, take care of... transshipped livestock... and put up with the losses, tying up tank space, meeting late, odd flights/dealing with air-freight folks... don't go this route. Bob Fenner>

Livestock wholesale sources
hello. The site TMC is "down" or not available for five days. I'm tying to access because I need to make an import of live rock and stock to my country Portugal. maybe you can give the email of TMC to send them the request and the information about their site...thanks and answer please
<Don't have their email, but there is a number posted on a review of their biz I penned here:
http://www.wetwebmedia.com/AqBizSubWebIndex/tmcpropc.htm
And do look through our livestock links: http://www.wetwebmedia.com/marlinks.htm
and Livestocking Business FAQs files: http://www.wetwebmedia.com/AqBizSubWebIndex/bizlvstkfaqs.htm
and the linked files (in blue, above) for folks who can supply you.
Bob Fenner>

TMC in the UK
I'm Portuguese and I try to enter in tropic marine center and I don't have success. I have a company in Portugal that have to import marine live stock and I can't find a company in Europe that export live stock and rock to my country. Please help my find one. thanks answer 
<Mmm, their site seems to be "down" for now:
www.tmc-ltd.co.uk/aquariumproducts/ tropicmarintestkits.asp
Try back in a few hours, or tomorrow... or give them a call: Tel: +44 (0)1923 284151
Bob Fenner>

Finding Exporters
Thanks for the answer and today I return to try enter and I don't have success. Don't exist another company in Europe or other country that export to my country live stock? I know that exist a company in Indonesia but I can't find the contact...maybe you can find me. thanks
<I think the best way for you to find a supplier in any country that you are looking for product from is you contact that specific country's (or state's) "department of commerce". Every government has one... it is their job in part to monitor and promote trade in their country and they have a list of all legal and registered merchants. There are but a handful or large exporters (and many individual collectors) in countries even as large as Indonesia. Kind regards, Anthony><<Underworld. RMF>>

Breeding Petfish for Export
Hello,
   My name is Tesfaye O'Sullivan and I am a Civil Engineer working in Jamaica. My passion is fish breeding and I am seriously interested in breeding pet fishes for export. I know we currently export fishes from Jamaica but I wanted to know if you could advise me as to which fish I should breed based primarily on world demand. I heard that Swordtails are popular. What fishes do you believe I should start out with. Also do you know any company/agencies etc that I could sell these fishes to for export. Thanks in advance for you assistance.
<Thank you for your interest. My best advice is to contact the Florida Tropical Fish Farmer's Association (FTFFA) re their membership's offerings, contact them in turn and gain awareness of how much they are charging for what species, sizes... to determine if you can produce fin-fish competitively... better to even visit some of the Florida farms. OH, and if possible, there is an international trade show, the Aquarama
in May, June in Singapore where many of the freshwater and marine livestock producers, distributors will be. Both these organizations can be found on the Internet. Please feel free to contact me/us if we can be of further assistance. Bob Fenner>
Regards,
Tesfaye O'Sullivan

Re: marine business
hi bob...
had one more questions...do you know of any good exporters of marine livestock from Haiti or Caribbean?
thank
hoang bui
<Mmm, not in Haiti, but once again, w/o knowing you better all I will do is contact folks, associates and ask that they consider responding to you. After you've been in the trade a good while you'll understand why it seems like such a "closed-shop" to outsiders. Most of the "A" players have established relationships that cover most of the business/world... and have little interest in shipping to unknowns... Hence a lot of new folks get burned by the "Non A" players (the second et al. string suppliers)... till they become more sophisticated. Have you worked in the trade long? For other businesses? Bought from transhippers? Piggy-backed orders with others? Bob Fenner>

Re: marine business
hi bob...
I've been in the marine business for a little over 3 years...but have worked with marine/fresh setups for over 20 years.  I order from Carelli, and other wholesalers, but I was interested in importing some livestock.  On occasion, I have piggy backed with D.R. imports in Miami.  If you have any ideas, please let me know...thanks again.
hoang bui
<About how many boxes could you take... an entire LD-3? Bob Fenner>

Re: marine business
hi bob...
right now, I can only fill 1/3 to 1/2, at most, of a LD3; I may be able to pool an order will another dealer to fill the LD3 space though...but personally, I'm looking for smaller quantities.  Any suggestions...?  thanks for any suggestions/help.
take care
hoang bui
<Best to pool or for you to pre-sell part of a shipment to fill a can. Where are you located, what's the nearest airport with freight facilities? Are there enough folks in your area to co-op a shipment? Bob Fenner>

Re: marine business
hi bob,
we are located in Gainesville, Florida...hour and a half from Orlando (MCO airport) or two hours for Tampa/st. Petersburg (non-designated import port)  I have perhaps 1 or 2 other dealers that may help fill the order though.  thanks again for all your help...any suggestions would be greatly appreciated!
talk to you soon.
hoang bui
<As I recall you were looking for marine livestock suppliers from where? From the Caribbean? You might try the folks that have emailed us:
http://www.wetwebmedia.com/AqBizSubWebIndex/bizlvstkfaqs.htm
and the next (linked) FAQs file. Otherwise, will you please refresh my memory: what sorts of livestock, from what localities are you interested in?
Bob Fenner>

Looking to import marine livestock into Singapore
Greetings from Singapore
<Hello from southern California>
I am a marine reef tank hobbyist and wish to seek your help.
I'm very interested to import in Tridacna Maxima Clam and colorful SPS into Singapore for personal tank or group of tanks.
LFS here in Singapore do not bring in these coral.
Could somebody provide some CITES certified contacts whereby I can import
those lovely coral.
<For just your use? Gets to be a bit expensive per unit/specimen, but will introduce you here to my friend Walt Smith in hopes that he can arrange a shipment to you, and my friend Perry Chong of SG in hopes that he will assist you as well. Bob Fenner>
Thank You
Hon

Corals for German Distributor
Dear Thomas,
Thank you for your e-mail dated 30 December.
Ornamental Fish International is an international aquatic industry organization with members in 40 countries.
As such, we do not, ourselves, deal with the import or export of fish, plants, corals, etc. However, please visit our website (www.ornamental-fish-int.org) where, among other things, you will find a full listing of our members under the Members' Directory section. Please feel free to contact any of them.
With best wishes.
John
JOHN DAWES
SECRETARY GENERAL
ORNAMENTAL FISH INTERNATIONAL
APARTADO DE CORREOS 129,
29692 SABINILLAS,
MANILVA,
MALAGA,
SPAIN.
TEL:+34 95 289 1975
FAX: +34 95 289 0895
E-MAIL: ofidawes@compuserve.com
www.ornamental-fish-int.org
<Thank you for the follow-up John. Bob Fenner>

Re: marine business <Importing livestock>
hi bob...
hope you are doing well.
<Yes my friend, thank you>
Currently, being a shop owner, I get all my livestock from various wholesalers.  I was wondering though, if there are any restrictions on importing your own livestock for sales?
<Just possible CITES permits, Customs paperwork... Your import agent (you can find them in the "Yellow Pages" in towns that the airlines ships in and through that do such work, like LAX or by calling U.S. Customs in those towns) can/will arrange for this documentation for you>
  If you import, do you have to become a wholesaler, or can you resale directly to public?  
<You can do both, either. You can sell directly to the public... just need to justify the volume, cash outlay... have the space, time for acclimating size orders that "make sense"... big wholesalers get the best deal on freight costs, etc...>
I already done some reading, and I've found that a permit is required, along with a wildlife officer and some quote papers, etc...Just wondering if anything else should be mentioned? ...Is there somewhere I can go for further information on the topic...the resources I found online are somewhat limited.  Thank you in advanced...take care.
h. bui
<Don't know a "how to do this" site... If you're friendly with an existing wholesaler they might allow you insight, or possibly try an intermediate step and ask if they'd allow you to "piggy-back" your order with theirs. Much savings in freight... likely more than enough to pay them some sort of nominal (10-15%) pass-through charge. Bob Fenner>

Re: marine business
hi bob,
thank you for the reply...
Just wondering if you had any experiences with these exporters:  Bali Aquatic, Aquatic Indonesia, & Quality Pets Aquatics?
<Only know of the last... in L.A.>
  Are there any exporters of marine fish, corals, clams that you may recommend?  thanks again...talk to you soon.
h. bui
<Unfortunately don't know of any well enough, that have any more capacity. Bob Fenner>

Live rock (UK distribution)
Dear Sirs,  
My name is Martin Doyle, I am a director of a company in the UK dealing with Haulage, Import and Export.
I also have an interest in Reefkeeping, and was wondering about the possibilities of shipping large amounts of rock from yourselves to my Holdings, with a view to selling on to fellow reefers throughout the UK.
Can you tell me if this is already being done in the UK and also if you feel this would be possible to strike up a business relationship, as I personally feel there is definitely an opening for business here, and would like your views/feelings on the subject before I arrange to come over to visit you to discus the project further.
Best Regards
Martin Doyle
247International
<Mmm, will send your note around to friends, associates in the trade to see if they're interested... are you familiar with Underworld and TMC in your country? Their drygoods and livestock are sold by a few folks there: http://www.marine-aquarium-supplies.co.uk/
Bob Fenner>

Referrals (Planning on new LFS in Singapore)
Hi guys
I am looking at setting up a marine fish shop in Singapore, SE Asia.  I am currently looking into the logistics and such, meaning  I am looking for suppliers of livestock and some dry goods and am hoping that you may be able to refer me to some good fellas in the trade, preferably located near my place.  Much as I wish to, $$$ say I cannot ship everything, especially common Indo-Pac. livestock, from US.   Here are what I need:
1.  Suppliers of marine fish, invertebrates and soft corals common to indo-pacific regions, meaning they need to be sited in the SE Asia themselves.  I am concerned with the use of cyanide, and understand that its use is still wide-spread in Indonesia.  Some exporters in Philippines, to my understanding are claiming net caught, cyn-free fishes, but I thought it will be nice if you know someone close ......
<We do>
2.  Suppliers of marine salt mix in bulk.  I understand that coral life and Kent marine already have local "sole" distributors.
3.  Suppliers of SeaLife from Atlantic, such as emerald crabs, peppermint shrimps.  Hopefully someone from Hawaii so that I can order these occasionally along with Hawaii net caught fishes.
If it is not convenient for you to furnish their details, I will appreciate it if you can give them mine:
Email: lamcy@i2r.a-star.edu.sg
contact number: +65-98582018
Many thanks in advance, Edwin
<Will circulate your list around... I suggest you work out all the other aspects of this planned venture (location, finance, personnel, set-up... and let the stock aspects take a back-seat to your plans for now... And do plan on attending Aquarama (.com) in early May in SG. We will be there (as visitors) and most all suppliers you want too! Bob Fenner>

Re: Referrals
<Will circulate your list around... I suggest you work out all the other aspects of this planned venture (location, finance, personnel, set-up... >
Have done these, in fact I am negotiating the rental deal on a particular place right now.  $$$ are raised, though as usual there are never enough of them LOL.  I also have talked with the guys from WS.  Am also starting to clear a path through all the government bureaucracy to get licenses and stuff.  Once things are more firmed up, which will be only around late Feb, I will probably draw up the setup plans to seek your opinion/advice.
<and let the stock aspects take a back-seat to your plans for now... And do plan on attending Aquarama (.com) in early May in SG. We will be there (as visitors) and most all suppliers you want too! Bob Fenner>                     
Aquarama is in late May, dear :)
<Yikes I sit corrected... the 29 till the first of June!>
  I will definitely be there, was there for the last few times......  and if I can have to honor to meet you and your guys (esp. Anthony, he taught me a lot), and maybe show you around, I will be most glad to.
<We'll be there. Please make it known if not enough people respond to you for your desires. Will cast my net further. Bob Fenner>
Best Regards and a million thanks, Edwin

New Retail outlet in SG
Hi everyone
<Edwin, meet Perry, Perry, Edwin. You both live in SG>
I have a friend working for an exporter in Singapore. I think they bring in stuff from Indonesia and if I am not wrong from Brazil as well.
<Ah yes>
I was supposed to visit this set up long time ago and I guess I might as well bring Edwin along. just came back from a dive trip to Bali and Manado so I won't get an off day until sometime next week. Call me on my mobile
9636 9650. Perry
<Be chatting, seeing you Per. Where do you want to go diving ahead, after Aquarama this time? Bob Fenner>

Re: "the business" - Part 2
Hey Anthony, Thanks for your prompt reply! I think the elusive goal of life is to make a living doing something you love...unfortunately that isn't always so easy!
<agreed and agreed>
Well, I think you guys have done well, and I respect you for it.
<thanks kindly my friend>
Regarding my previous email, I would have to disagree with you on a few points.  The available flights and distance between Cairo, Egypt to DFW is actually a shorter distance and flight than to LAX!  
<alas, you are still missing the point bud, in part my fault due to/limited by the brevity of e-mail. Beyond transit time you must reckon the rigors of transport in unheated cargo wells through the tropical pacific to a warm destination (LA or Miami) versus the decidedly cooler path various shipments must traverse to get to Detroit (through London for many... over Canada for some! Brrrrrr!). With over ten years experience importing animals... I'll take 25 hours shipping tropicals through the tropics versus 20 hours via a latitude north of New York any day <G>.>
I am still trying to hammer down a flight plan that would be less than 20 hours (I'm down to about 39 hours so far).  
<the higher prices and higher mortality of Tonga shipments for example is because it takes around 30 hours to get anywhere civilized in America on import. Shipments over 20 hours are killing animals unnecessarily. You can trust me, doubt me or better yet talk to others that have done the same math for a consensus my friend. I assure you that you will make more profit and kill fewer animals by buying higher priced healthy livestock that has been held at a wholesaler, rather than purchasing a whole lot of stressed and dying cheaper animals transshipped direct. I'm not sure how/if you figure that Detroit is the closest place for Red Sea at 39 hours. Most Red Sea comes into the East coast (a little New York, most Miami>
Sri Lanka is also physically closer to Detroit than Los Angeles, although not by much.  
<again... the temperature in transit issue. There really is a reason why the majority of marine wholesalers are in California. You can live or die by the numbers... but the numbers will not lie>
I have not researched the flight times there yet.  A and M Aquatics (a wholesaler) in Lansing, Michigan often carries a large selection of Hawaiian, Red Sea, and Caribbean fish.  There are also wholesale facilities in Bloomington, Minneapolis (Salt H2O Headquarters).  Also, APET inc. in Illinois, Holiday Coral in Indiana.  
<No sale... you've named three. You can name 10X more and it will still be pale by comparison. The only reason these places exist is Detroit being one of 5 (7) legal ports of entry (and forwarding flights) for CITES listed animals. That still does not mean their rates of mortality and morbidity aren't higher. Making a profit and making an honest profit are sometimes two very different things. I am very aware of the wholesalers you have mentioned. You too can get the industry scoop at the trade shows and conferences <G>>
These are all legit operations with decent facilities (I've seen many of them).  
<OK... I'll stop trying to persuade you. Just tell me what you want to hear ;) >
I would never consider transshipping fish, as most (if not all) pet stores simply do not have the time or resources to acclimate the fish correctly.  
<agreed>
I believe corals can be transshipped, if care is taken to be selective in the species that are shipped.  
<this is a barely truthful assessment which I begrudgingly agree with. Severe limitations though>
Most transhippers I have had experience with have little knowledge
of the animals they are "shipping", and care even less if you have DOA's!
<I'm starting to wonder if it has rubbed off>
They are not a model for my business! I realize that you should not recommend that anyone import wild caught animals for a living.  I hope that legislation will not just shut down our
industry outright.  But our industry is unfortunately responsible for damage to reefs, and the forces that may ultimately destroy natural reefs are much harder to regulate!
<OK>
It is not my intention to form a large scale wholesale business.  But rather to form a high-quality small scale business.  
<sounds good... be sure to form and revisit a good business plan often>
I see too many fish that come in starving and diseased from large wholesalers. I hope that by focusing on smaller shipments, feeding and treating disease intensively, I can have higher quality fish.  I can then sell these fish to my maintenance customers (with more of an assurance they will live!), and sell the rest to select stores, or online.
<cool>
I have always tried to "do my part" to encourage propagation and captive-bred specimens, buying coral frags from customers, supplying the store with my own, trading frags with friends, etc.
<excellent... although you are preaching to the converted :) >
Doh! another long email...sorry =)
<no worries>
One more thing....after hearing your talk, I got rid of all my powerheads, and put a Gen-X pump on a closed loop in my tank.  That lowered the temp. by 4 degrees! Now I can run my halides longer, plus I have more water flow!
<its a beautiful thing! great to hear my friend <G>>
The comment on Caulerpa sp. algae also explains why Acropora don't survive very well in our store Ecosystem reef!  
<yes... amazing. The proof is in the pudding as they say>
Guess we'll have to set up a special tank for those! Brett
<best regards, bud... do chat more with us at MACNA 03 if we do not see you before then. Anthony>

"The business" - Part 3
hey again Anthony,
Go to sleep! =)  
<ha! Vampire shift <G>... somebody has to keep the WWM mail train running round the clock :) >
Seriously, your dedication to the hobby is admirable.   
Thanks for your input (again!).  
<and thank you for caring to know my/our opinion my friend>
I based my conclusions on distances between the Red Sea, DFW, and LAX on physical estimates ("as the crow flies"), which is but a rough estimate  compared to the reality of airline flight schedules.  
<understood and agreed we have to start somewhere>
Unfortunately, climate  control of airline compartments has yet to be initiated (except for pharmaceuticals and haz. chemicals, the folks that have big bucks!).
<I hear you my brother!>
I would definitely agree that shipping from a tropical location to a temperate location presents problems.  I thought that water quality concerns were more important (pH and ammonia) than temperature.  
<both are valid and significant concerns with varying effects on morbidity, mortality of marine life. Take the surgeonfish for example: studies have shown that they can take a 10 degree increase in temperature before showing rates of stress induced Ich infection that can be instigated with as little as a 3 degree drop in temperature. The ocean as we know it is remarkably stable in temperature. Dr Carlson told me one time that he dove water in Fiji that was 85F at 75 foot!!! Yep... stable water temps are a biggie. Agreed though, that other parameters of water quality are equally important and some more so>
I really don't want to tell you what I want to hear,  
<heehee... you were starting to scare me with the sales pitch in the last e-mail>
I just would prefer a discussion, rather than just hearing an opinion.  And, it's just more fun to argue! =)
<you're married? :p >
Well I'm past the point of writing good email...I'm off to dreams of snorkeling in the south pacific.... Thanks again! Brett
<ciao, bub... and best of luck. Anthony>

Pet Store advice from WetWebMedia.com
Hi, we do need some assistance. We own a pet store and have added marine fish to our pets. we can only find one hatchery and is limited on marine fish. can you help us? Kritter Korner Tracy city TN 931-592-3333 thank you sherry
<welcome to the salty side of the industry my friend! We can indeed help you. There really is so much to say and share here to help you succeed. You really need to meet us or someone like us <G> at a trade show or conference and sit down for a couple hours to get the crash course! The big national marine conference MACNA is being held reasonably near you next year (it travels the country) in Kentucky by the Louisville club (www.lmas.org). If you go to no other conference or show... this is not to be missed! We'll be there and are delighted to chat and help you for as long as you are willing to listen. The industry needs more good retailers of course :) In answer to your question... there are many good wholesalers out there, and even more bad or ignorant ones. Make your life simple and go to one of the best and oldest ones around: Quality Marine. You can follow this link for their contact information: http://www.qualitymarineusa.com/home.html
heehee... tell them Bob Fenner's crew recommended you and they might throw in a clownfish kewpie doll :) They really are good guys. I used them personally in my business for a about ten years, and they have been around for over 30 I believe. That sort of longevity speaks volumes. A trip to LA to see their facility is well worth it too! It will take your breath away. Best regards, Anthony Calfo>

Coral Propagation for Commercial Venture II
Thank you very much. I don't rush into any venture. I appreciate your advice. I have the "Book of Coral Propagation" on order. Would you recommend any others?
<There are many other excellent books on coral husbandry. Eric Borneman's "Aquarium Corals", the two Sprung and Delbeek volumes, and the Fossa and Neilson works are all excellent.>
Thanks again, Rob
<You are welcome. -Steven Pro>

Chip Boyle- Cook Islands
Dear Bob,
<Hello>
   My name is Kerrie Jefferson of Aquatic Fish Imports in Australia.  We are Importers/wholesalers and I am trying establish a contact in the Cook Islands.  I have been reading about Chip Boyle and I believe you may know how to contact him.  I understand that you cannot pass on his contact details, but I would greatly appreciate it if you could pass on mine to him and hopefully he may contact myself.
<I don't mind, and will send your info. to Chip... up to him to respond. Their facility is nice, but the operation is of the size that they rarely have "excess stock".>
  We have our own quarantine facilities and are approved by AQIS.  
Company Details:
Aquatic Fish Imports
109 Salamander Way
SALAMANDER BAY   NSW  2317
PH  61249820032
FAX   61249846193
e-mail:   kerriej@nelsonbay.com
Any assistance you may be able to provide would be great.
Thank you in advance
Kerrie Jefferson
Aquatic Fish Imports
<Happy to do my part. Do you have specific needs, requests? Do you mind if I send your msg. around? Bob Fenner>

DULIMENT  TROPICAL  FISH  FARM
Live Edible and Ornamental Fish
Tel               +94 77 7950079                                                273/1, Pitipana South,
Fax               +94 31 35041                                                   Negombo,
Email            wsdvf@hotmail.com                                        Sri Lanka.
Dear Sir,
I'm happy to introduced you by through the internet. I'm exporting live ornamental fish some other country. I would like to do business with you also. I can supply you ornamental, aquarium marine (sea water) fish. And sea foods also. (prawns, crabs and frozen fish.)
I hope to visit trade fare for aquarium fish in Canada in future. I wish to offer you further short period time you will make action. I sincerely hope that your good reply as soon as possible.
Thanking you, Yours faithfully, S. J. R. Mirando
<Thank you for your email. I will post your company name and email on our business subweb. Bob Fenner, WetWebMedia.com>

Lombardo's
Hello there, In doing some research, with regard to operating a breeding/aquaculture facility here in the New England area I recall being made aware of a wholesaler in the NYC area .....Lombardo's. Can anyone help me in finding there info or contacting them. I am hitting a brick wall for some reason no matter which avenue I drive down.
<they have changed their name at least once as I recall... and their reputation precedes them in many places. Do consider if that means anything to you. Try looking under "Metro Pet". Best regards, Anthony>

Query (New store, entrepreneur, marine life selection...)
Respected sir
I am 21 years old. I had recently had open fish shop. I am very fond of keeping marine fish. Can you tell me which fish should I start with. Also I want to know that maturation period should be of how many months. I will be very thankful to you.
<Start with the ten most common, hardy species your customers are interested in... likely Damselfishes, Zebrasoma Tangs... what do your suppliers offer? What can you buy in your area? Or catch?
Bob Fenner>
MONTY

Looking for collectors located on Kona, also Costa Rica
Hi Bob,
I've got a small marine fish importing company here in Vancouver. I'm looking for collectors both on Kona, and a source of net-caught fish in Costa Rica. Can you help me? Thanks in Advance
<Mmm, yes... May I ask for something in the way of trade references? Some sort of Nimzo-Indian Handshake to make it known you're who you say you are? Do you know anyone in the trop. association in HI? If not, I encourage you to deal through Randy Fernley of Coral Fish Hawai'i in O'ahu... he moves the boxes around for many outbound shipments... Can you, your biz make sense out of whole can (LD3) shipments? Any way, I will try to assist you if I can. Bob Fenner>
Doug

Re: Looking for collectors located on Kona, also Costa Rica
Attending Aquarama hadn't crossed my mind. I've been too busy with starting up that I haven't even considered it. 
<... how to put this... the building of person to person relationships in our trade is as crucial as having a good holding system... If you're not an "A" player, receiving good livestock, service, aiding the ends of your collectors/suppliers, there's no sense being in business period... Put negatively: You know there are non "A" players in the supply side... and if you're getting junk from them, you won't survive... Go out and meet, engage the folks you are absolutely dependent on.>
I will probably give it consideration a little bit down the road but for now I've got to concentrate on what's at hand.
I'm sure the visit would pay for itself no problem, but it's like you said - will it be feasible. I'll touch bases with you when I've got things figured out. Hopefully then I'll be able to catch up with you.
<Looking forward to it. Bob Fenner>
Thanks again
Doug

Re: Looking for collectors located on Kona, also Costa Rica
Hi Robert, that sure was quick.
<Am sort of like Vaudeville...>
That's a legit request. I've been out of the biz for 4 or 5 years now. We used to buy small quantities (around 20 boxes a shot) from Alice when she used to own Kamlibase (we used to do business under the name Ocean Blue Aquatics). My father wants to import into Toronto so filling a can should be feasible. Used to purchase only net-caught fish in the Philippines from Ramonet at Brem, Guia at H.D. Aquapets and am now in the process of setting up with Marivi at Aquarium Habitat. We used to be the largest marine fish importer west of Toronto (we didn't approach eastern Canada due to a lack of space), we were still very small potatoes if you compare us to the majority of U.S. companies.
<Yes... and a concern (of mine and yours)... will it do to co-op/piggyback cans with somebody there in the meanwhile? Can you make it on partial cans?>
If you want to hear from some of my customers let me know, I'll have to get some e-mail addresses from them first. I think if you e-mail Steve Robinson he will attest to us conversing via e-mail for the last month or so regarding what he's up to next, that's the best I can do for now. Other than that I won't be able to give you recent references until a month or so, after I've done a few shipments out of the Philippines or Cuba.
<Not necessary... you are in the trade... Am guarded re helping folks "get into trouble"... and the trade has changed (not much for the better) in the intervening years you've been out... margins are smaller, gov't and freight costs higher...>
Let me know,
<Do you have some idea of volume, the types of organisms you'd like to distribute? Current wholesale pricing thereabouts? I would like to discuss the very real possibility of your easing back into the trade as a "jobber"... maybe selling livestock sent up just from Los Angeles... that hails from most everywhere... Is this something we should chat-up? Bob F>
Thanks
Doug McConkey
Quality Handcaughts, Vancouver

Re: Looking for collectors located on Kona, also Costa Rica
How can you tell I'm sending e-mails in the middle of the night. 
<The "tag line" contains this info.>
My competitor is not doing a container at a time since international flights into Vancouver don't do containers. I've got to do 50 boxes (1000kg) to be competitive on Indonesian coral and rock. 
<Yes>
Any suggestions as to who I could do business with out of Indo? lots to chose from and the one suggested to me a few years bag isn't taking anymore customers.
<Again, I wish I knew you better, your tolerance for dealing with... troubles, inconsistency... have you been to Indo.? DO you have time to come along with us before/after and during Aquarama (in May, Singapore)? Most everyone will be there whom you want to make acquaintance... and maybe side-visit... to see first-hand what they have to offer. Bob F>
thanks again
Doug

Re: Looking for collectors located on Kona, also Costa Rica
Thanks again for the quick response.
Jobbing isn't really an option for me. I'll be able to import directly from country of origin in most cases with the exception of Indonesia. We're doing our best to import net-caught only, and frankly if I dealt through a company in L.A. would I be sent net-caught stuff only? 
<Mmm, you're right here... really impossible to tell... some folks it would likely be close/better than 90%... don't know if you've followed the MAC tax-the-trade scheme (still in regress)...>
Highly doubt it with all the mixing of shipments and the fact that the big guys can hardly be bothered with the poor selection coming from the small net-catching companies in the Philippines.
<Bingo>
I can be competitive in most cases here in Canada for 2 reasons, the first being there is only 2 guys in Canada doing enough volume to fill a can (one does cans out of Hawaii, the other guy from Indo). Also, like I said before my father will be setting up in Toronto where we can take advantage of our size. The way it has been working here in Canada is the wholesalers in Western Canada sell to Western Canada, and in Eastern Canada the same thing. I could very well only order 100kg amounts from Australia, Hawaii, Philippines, and the Caribbean and still be competitive in both Toronto and Vancouver. Realistically I think we'd be doing 250kg to 500kg of Philippines every 2-3 weeks, Caribbean 250-500 a month, Hawaii 20 boxes to a can a month, Australia as well but down the road when I've been established a bit. I'd love to do both rock and cites stuff out of Indonesia but I've got to make sure I'm able to do a can.
<Well-stated>
Can you give me a ballpark on some yellows if I'm filling a can? I'll check into the freight end of things here. Even at 100kg I only pay 60 cents a pound (Canadian). Out of Hawaii it's the fish that make up the bulk of my cost.
<Hope you're sitting down... no longer 1-1.25 in 500 lots (U.S.)... more like 2.75-3.00 FOB per...! Landed? A buck and more each plus!>
Any word on a Costa Rican exporter?
<I have emailed associates in the trade (with your notes) asking for their response... am sure you have a sense of the appropriateness of this protocol. If they want to engage you, they will likely respond directly. Bob Fenner>
By the way, thanks for the help
<Glad to be of assistance... I will keep thinking about you>
Doug
Quality Handcaughts,
Vancouver

Re: introdução (Freshwater and marine livestock supplier in Brasil)
<Thank you. Will post on WetWebMedia.com for you. Bob Fenner>
Reply-To: "Ruller" <iguabaocean@yahoo.com.br>
DISCUS AMAZONAS RIVER- PIRANHAS
SPECIAL PRICE, DIRECT FROM RIVER TO YOU
UNBELIEVABLE PRICE BRAZILIAN FISHES
MARINE ATLANTICO
FRESH WATER AMAZON RIVER DISCUS GREEN - FOUR COLORS
RED-Piranhas
SPOT BLUE ETC
IGUABA OCEAN
RUA SÃO PEDRO 4O
, IGUABA -RIO DE JANEIRO
BRASIL
FAX-55 21 22648222
EMAIL: iguabaocean@yahoo.com.br
iguabaoc@vento.com.br , BRASIL MARINE FISH-promocion salminus maxillosus
SEAHORSES YELLOW; BLACK, RED PROMOCION -POMACANTHUS PARU French angel LARGE -30CM ETC dear sirs we are a company established in Rio de Janeiro (BRASIL ) since1993, we're specialized in marine and freshwater fishes > can dispatch to around the world with good freight rate and good connections to make shipment arrival on able time fresh water : potamotrygon l leopoldi, potamotrygon motoro, arapaima
gigas, salminus maxillosus, wild discus( Amazon region), plecosL-46 + L-25+
L14+L-15 +L17
saltwater fishes : queen angel ( show size around 30cm), French angel show, Cuban hog , gray angel, red sea horse, yellow sea horse, flame back angel
,(better price from brazil), royal Gramma (better price from brazil), Spanish hog, golden ell
and much more we are waiting for you

Re: introdução (Brazilian mar. and FW livestock supplier)
Bob,
These poor guys for real? 
<Don't know them at all... just rec'd the solicitation as forwarded>
Is it direct from the diver cheap, except  for 40% DOAS?
<Who knows... perhaps you can sell them on your going there and imparting your knowledge, philosophy... this was my thought>
Oh well, ammonia or Lymphocystis and starvation...take you pick huh?
<I choose "none of the above">
I can't get thru with that email address.
I'm off to Mexico Saturday.
Want anything from there? Steve (Robinson)
<Mmm, a cold caja or two of Pacificos (not the pequenos either buddy). See you soon Steve. Bob Fenner>

Good to meet you at MACNA
Bob, it was a pleasure to finally speak with you. I hear you are quite the networking type. 
<Yes... beats working, as the saying goes>
I need to start networking more. We have sold to wholesalers for the past seven years, and this last year we have slowly been switching over to supplying retail stores.
<A tough, but necessary step...>
Since we haven't done any real marketing, we could use any suggestions you might have. 
<Oh boy! Talk about letting the genie out of the bottle!>
Article, web site, etc.... We would like to start getting our name out there.
<Mmm, let's meet up at your place... and chat re at least me doing a "pro" (as in for the good) piece about you, your biz... have done these for a while for the hobby and trade mag.s here and abroad... You can see a few posted on our root web: http://www.wetwebmedia.com/>
We currently get all of our customers through referrals and are looking to expand our client base. 
<Referrals are best, period... I feel so strongly re this, that I'd suggest you put your efforts into calling existing customers and ask for more referrals... rather than any other effort...>
But not to the extent were we can't process a quality product humanely. We are not trying to be the biggest, but just known for having quality product. 
<Good for you, the trade, hobby, planet>
We are looking for key stores, which are concerned more with quality rather than price.
<There's a bunch>
If you have any leads, I would be very appreciative. If there is anything I can ever help or do for you, please don't hesitate to ask.
<Maybe a pic or two... like I say, will come by... am due to swing by Rob Miller's new digs (ERI) as they go up... and do make it past Dana about once, twice a month... When's good? Bob Fenner>
Sincerely,
Mark Lamont (Fish Heads)

Recent developments in Singapore
Hi Bob
A Tropical marine Institute has been set up in Singapore. They are trying to raise clams and seahorses. Here is a link from the local newspapers
http://straitstimes.asia1.com.sg/cybernews/0,1874,,00.html?
<Hope they've contacted others in the field... this has all been done, and is being done now by others. Bob Fenner>
Perry

Without trying to start a big thing I was wondering if you could comment on this!
Cultured Fishes from the Sea
Hello gentleman
The material below is from Flying Fish Express. I saw something similar, about what I assume was a wholesaler, in FAMA yesterday and I wonder if you could read this and comment on whether the part about "step actually causes the gastro-intestinal tracts of these fish to develop differently from their wild cousins, allowing these now captive specimens to assimilate the artificial food" is possible? 
<I have heard a lecture from the researcher that developed the technique, I have seen the cultured fishes at several trade shows... I am hopeful of the whole process... but I think that their claims at essentially overcoming evolution for the dietary needs of these fishes is dubious at best. Still not convinced here>
The article in FAMA directly mentioned butterflies, but if this is the case wouldn't this be the ideal? 
<heck ya!>
Fish that had hard to furnish requirements that were no longer those requirements?
Ornate butterfly's? Meyers? Angels that need sponges that would no longer need them?
Thanks so much for your comments
Mac
<thanks kindly, Anthony>
http://www.ffexpress.com/fish/tank_raised.html
<http://www.ffexpress.com/fish/tank_raised.html>
>From the crystal clear coves of tropical French Polynesia comes another industry first, brought to you exclusively by Flying Fish Express. Our new line of tank raised fish goes way beyond the usual range of cultured clownfish and Dottybacks currently available in the industry today. From tangs to damsels, these farmed fish are part of our commitment to save the world's reefs one animal at a time.
Our aquacultured fish begin their lives just as most wild specimens do. Mature fish broadcast their gametes into the water column where the eggs are fertilized and the ensuing larvae become part of the zooplankton population. Under ideal circumstances these larvae suffer a mortality of over 99% in the natural habitat due to factors ranging from natural death to predation.
Our biologists seine these larval fish from the tropical shallows before they meet their natural fate and tank raise them under ideal conditions. Free from disease and predation, the survival rate of these tiny fish is enormously enhanced and they grow rapidly. At a very specific time in their development the larval fish are introduced to artificial commercial aquarium food. This step actually causes the gastro-intestinal tracts of these fish to develop differently from their wild cousins, allowing these now captive specimens to assimilate the artificial food. They actually develop a preference for artificial food making them ideally suited to captive life.
Hardy, beautiful, competitively priced and easy to feed, our Flying Farmed Fish are the perfect swimming additions for your marine aquarium. Why purchase wild-caught fish from other retailers and struggle with the age-old problem of "getting them to eat"? Why deal with the hassle of having to keep all those different frozen and live foods for all those different species?
>From puffers to butterflies, our cultured fish LOVE commercial pellet or flake food. It's easy, it's fun.......IT'S THE FUTURE!! Keep visiting us for different Flying Farmed Fish arriving periodically at our Los Angeles facility.

Future Aquaculturist
My name is olasukanmi I got your recommendation and contact from a friend that informed me that you are into fishery business. Based on this and fact that I have been retired, I now intend to go into fishery business. I need to know from you if we can go into Partnership;
<Unfortunately I have no time to put into such ventures>
if not, I have some amount of money to Invest on the business venture on my own, hence, the need for your assistance. I am of the opinion that you have technical expertise which I don't have as per this line of business. I wish to know the exact capital outlay that is required to venture into the fishery business just endeavor to give me the low-down from the procurement of land, the machinery etc. I need to know your reaction and intention as soon as possible
<What sort of species? What applications? That is, ornamental, food-fish... to what markets? Where? Such businesses can be very expensive to quite reasonable... if you have time, expertise, some money-generating practice may fit in your home... Let's continue discussing the possibilities for now. Perhaps we can find you a worthwhile partner, other folks to aid you in your business. Bob Fenner>
Looking forward to hearing from you soonest.
Thanks,
Yours
Sukanmi.

MACNA
Dear Bob,
It was my fault that we missed each other. I could not make it to any of the talks as I was on call throughout the weekend. However, I managed to squeeze in some time one Friday and Sunday and got a chance to speak with Walt who was not too optimistic about Indonesia and Philippines.
Also bought a book from your wife. I asked her if you were there and she said that you were "floating around" somewhere. And I have not seen you before so we could have crossed paths. Nevertheless, I will surely make a trip to CA to meet up with you and the rest of the folk.
Walt also mentioned that the Indian government has invited him over to start a coral aquaculture.
<Yes... there was a nice article in the L.A. Times re Walt yesterday... and the coral business>
He mentioned South India. Says that he is trying to make an agreement with the Indian govt. whereby for every coral he traded, he would grow and replace three in the wild.
I leave for Malaysia in couple of weeks. Will try and find loopholes in the system which will enable me to commence with my business. Will also scope out other regions from Kuala Lumpur.
Wish me luck!
Best,
Bala
<I do wish you good fortune. Be chatting, Bob Fenner>

Re: Collection Station in Vanuatu
Dear Bob,
Walt suggests PNG, Tuvalu and "Kiribus". If I chose to scope out Tuvalu, it would be from Fiji and that will give me the opportunity to visit Walt's Collection Station. I may kill 2 birds with one stone. 
<Would look into these sites and definitely visit in Fiji>
Am very excited.
Any thoughts, comments and concerns are greatly appreciated.
Best,
Bala
PS: Yes, I will be at MACNA. My trip to NJ was postponed.
<I was there all weekend... how did we manage to miss each other? Walt and Deb said they met you. Bob F>

Re: Collection Station
Dear Bob,
Wow, I have a new nick name for you that goes well with your incessant replies : Quick Draw McGraw!
<When in town... a reflex defensive mechanism... if we don't respond ASAP we get buried, forgetful, behind>
YES, THE FEELING IS MUTUAL ON WALT'S INPUT. THANKS FOR THE INVITATION. BUT MY UPCOMING TRIP WILL BE TO SCOPE OUT POTENTIAL SITES. ALTHOUGH IT IS ABSOLUTELY IMPERATIVE THAT I GET A FEEL OF AN ESTABLISHED COLLECTION STATION.
<Yes, very important... the best use of your time, invaluable experience>
HMMM, YOU MUST MEAN ABU SAYAF AND CO HARASSING THOSE PARTS OF INDONESIA RIGHT? YES, THERE HAS BEEN POLITICAL UNREST QUITE RECENTLY. AND ONE THAT IS RELIGIOUS AND RACIAL IN NATURE. THEY HAVE BEEN SLAUGHTERING THE CHINESE WHO ARE THE DOMINANT BUSINESS COMMUNITY IN INDO. QUITE SIMILAR TO HOW THE GERMANS FELT ABOUT THE JEWS.
<I see>
BALI LOOKS INTERESTING.
<A beautiful country within one in turmoil in places>
I DO RESEMBLE A TYPICAL MALAYSIAN AND AM CONFIDENT THAT I WILL BLEND IN EASILY WITH THE INDONS. ACTUALLY, I COULD EASILY PASS OFF AS AN INDON. YOU WERE REFERRING TO MY "INTRINSIC" NATURE WHEN YOU COMMENTED ON FOOD PREFERENCES, TOLERANCE TO HARDSHIP ETC. WHY? I HAVE SEEN HARDSHIP IN MY TIME.
<Oh, a note, query re your personal preferences.... some folks can/will give up fast food et al., but miss their CNN... in many places that pet-fish are collected, there are a lack of many modern conveniences and luxuries.>
I ALSO HAVE CLOSE INDON FRIENDS THAT I CAN PARTNER UP WITH. CHECKED OUT THE INDON CHAMBER OF COMMERCE. THERE IS A REQUIREMENT TO GIVE 5% OWNERSHIP TO A LOCAL.
<Good>
IN REGARDS TO PERSONAL Q'S: PLEASE FEEL FREE TO "INTERROGATE" ME. MY MOTHER IS ROMAN CATHOLIC AND MY FATHER IS HINDU. ME, ...SOMEWHERE IN THE MIDDLE.>>
<Okay... good to be flexible, tolerant here>
I DID CONTACT A COMPANY IN INDIA (MALABAR AQUARIUM, CALCUTTA). THE CHAP TOLD ME THAT THEY "DID NOT HAVE THE NECESSARY INFRASTRUCTURE TO HANDLE MARINE LIVESTOCK." IF INDIA WAS MY CHOICE, IT WOULD PROBABLY BE ON THE SOUTHERN TIP, IN KERALA (TRIVANDRUM). ALTHOUGH I HAVE NOT RESEARCHED THE INVESTMENT OPPORTUNITIES THOUGROUGHLY.
<Much to do>
REGARDING CITES...I HAD TALKED TO C.V.EXOTIC AQUARIUM IN JAKARTA, THE KIND LADY WHO IS THE OWNER, TOLD ME THAT THE CITES DOCS THERE COSTS $200 FOR <=500 PIECES OF CORAL AND IT TAKES SEVERAL WEEKS TO PROCESS. ON THE RECEIVING END, MY RESEARCH TELLS ME IT'S $25 FOR THOSE QUANTITIES. ANOTHER INTERESTING FINDING WITH EXOTIC IS THAT THEIR SUBSIDIARY IN BALI HAS SIGNED A CONTRACT WITH AN AMERICAN CO. GIVING THE FORMER EXCLUSIVE RIGHTS TO THEIR LIVESTOCK.
<"The job's not finished till the paperwork is done">
IT'S "BAHASA" AND NOT "DAHASA", WHICH TRANSLATE TO "LANGUAGE".
<Thank you>
SINCERELY APOLOGIZE FOR BLURTING MY DOUBTS ABOUT WALT AND HIS ROLE IN THE TRADE.
<No worries my friend. You are welcome to your skepticisms... a healthy trait>
THEREFORE, GIVEN THE INFO, WHAT ARE YOUR THOUGHTS ?
<Re?>
Sorry for writing with the caps on. Was trying to write in between your replies so as not to miss out on the pertinent facts but it got too cluttered.
<Okay>
Awaiting your reply.
Best,
Bala
<More research, visiting in order. If you're coming out to California (south), make this known. Perhaps I can take you about to people in the trade (Los Angeles mainly) who can be of service to you. Bob Fenner>

Collection Stations
Dear Bob,
How do you do?
<Fine, thank you>
Thanks for introducing me to Walt. The email he sent me came with a negative tone. Nevertheless, I am still intent on getting on with the business, only in a different region.
<Am thankful for Walt's input... may seem odd (as you don't know me, likely Walt), but I invite you to tour about, visit his, other facilities with us (dive and industry friends, associates) as we get about quite a bit>
I had asked his advice on other regions I can scope out. And now, I turn to you again: Would you recommend Indonesia, Maldives or India?
<So many "other" important factors to know re you (food preferences, tolerance to risks of different sorts, endurance to hardships...) to make a "A,B,C" list... Indonesia is fabulous all the way about... the world's biggest diversity, tremendous abundance, ready flights to major cities... but is having some real troubles for now (I was in N. Sulawesi last week). The Maldives have a couple of collecting stations that I'm aware of... and the country is "closed" in many ways to new ones (I will leave off with stmt.s, queries re your religious backgd. as it is none of my business, but this is a very important factor here). India might be a good opportunity... where there?>
I know there aren't any restrictions in Indonesia at this point.
<Actually... CITES on their and receiving countries ends, and many of the latter re Indo. (see various folks re W. European countries importing from there)>
It would also be advantageous for me as I do speak the language and it is a neighbor to my home country besides the favourable exchange rate.
<Good points for sure... wish I spoke Dahasa>
On another note, I am also a potential competitor of Walt Smith. I hate to think that he is "nipping the problem in the bud" with my case. Please advice. Best, Bala
<I assure you, this is a minor possibility, influence. Walt, myself, many others who have "lived the industry", are absolutely in earnest in wanting to aid people to become "good competitors"... the not-so-good ones are of no use, benefit to anyone... consumers, the industry, environment... think on this. We have "been around" for the decades this field has existed and will gladly help people... as their success, cooperation is our own. Bob Fenner, driving out to the hobby conf. which is MACNA. Be seeing you.>

Re: Collection Station in Vanuatu
Dear Bala,
I am not positive but I believe that all of the coral quota is used up by the present suppliers in Indonesia. In fact, some of the shippers who now only ship fish are in a queue waiting for their turn to be allocated a portion of the CITES. quota and have been waiting for several years. 
<Bingo>
Indonesia would be my last choice to start this business as everybody and their brother is shipping from there and the present imports are very common/boring and it would be difficult at best to break into this market with something everyone else already has. Sorry if all of this seems like bad news for you but it is an honest assessment of the state of our industry at the moment. You really need to look for areas that are not being exploited at the moment to come up with items that are new to the industry. Those rich, experienced, connected boys in Indo would chew you up and spit you out. I still suggest New Caledonia, PNG, or perhaps Kiribati, or Tuvalu. In the last two you would need to ship to me in Fiji because of the airline situation with no direct flights. I will be out of town after this (Dallas) and then Chicago so good luck in your quest. I hope you take my advise as a short cut to avoiding a massive financial mistake.
Cheers, Walt
<Thanks for cc'ing me Walt. Oh, Bala is going to be at MACNA too I believe. See you both there. Bob F>

Re: Collection Station in Vanuatu
<Thanks much for your valuable input Walt. Nothing like folks actually duking it out trying to make a dollar to add weight to valid points. Bob Fenner>
Dear Bala,
In response to your inquiries about setting up a station in Vanuatu I would hesitate and check a little further. The environmentalist groups are starting to become very vocal there and the existing businesses do not have the support they need to battle the pending shut down. Even IMA is a joke as they openly oppose our trade on the front lines and say otherwise at conferences to gain support/dollars from groups willing to donate to a good cause. I have had a business in Vanuatu for two years and lost plenty of $$ and time while the locals just ripped me off every chance they got. In short, I would advise against it and the climate for this type of business is very risky at this time. If this were not true I would still be operating out of there today. Also, species diversity is very low or similar to already over-exploited fish and corals from other areas. The Flame Angel is the big fish there but the other countries exporting them have already ruined the profit for this item by over-competing and driving the price down so low it is not worth it. Case in point, I have a chance to get 500+ Flames per week (from north of me) but don't want them because of the destroyed market. New Caledonia is really only the last frontier but you must be French or have a partner that will only rip you off. I have learned my lessons living in the region for the past 14 years and the most valuable lesson I can pass on is this: If you do not have heaps of experience in this business (I had 17 years as a wholesaler) before moving here and dealing with all of the local issues not to mention market knowledge and experience you will probably not survive the trials. This has become a very difficult business to reach any level of success and I truly consider myself extremely fortunate to have survived. The profit is not the same as it used to be and the whole world is out to give you a hard time environmentally. However, if you decide that you are as crazy as I am then you might want to contact me with your final plans and I might be interested in buying your product direct into Fiji which would make your flight arrangements much easier with a wider choice of points of origin. Sorry if this seems like bad news but it is a realistic portrait of what happens (down there) all over the region. I know, I have been there ... everywhere.
Kind regards,
Walt Smith

Re: Collection Station
Dear Bob,
Thanks for the prompt reply.
Thanks for also inviting me to LA. I am not too far off - in the Dallas-Ft. Worth area, 5 minutes from the airport.
<Oh! We will likely see each other at the hobby do this next weekend. The MACNA get-together is in Dallas>
I will surely pay you a visit one of these days. As a matter of fact, I have relatives that live in Studio City. However, I will not be readily available to join you and your friends on your monthly dive trips as I have a full-time job as a Software Consultant although I may squeeze in a few days for just one or two trips.
<If you'd like, I'll add you to our diving friends email mail-out list>
Ok, Solomon Islands are out of the question now. I will do only one island on my short vacation cum business trip and Vanuatu is my choice. And you seem to suggest that it is a great place. The minimum investment requirement is VT5 million (approx. $35K). And they have daily flights to Brisbane and Sydney so airspace. With the exchange rate @ $1 = 136 Vatu, starting my project here seems favorable.
<I do want to speak with you re selling to other wholesale concerns in the area... it may "make sense" to just sell to Walt in Fiji for instance>
Are there any downsides to doing business in Vanuatu? Are there folks out there already heavily involved in the trade?
<The biggest, and only real downside IMO is the fact that the country overall is very undeveloped... for me it is frustrating to not be able to get hands on tools, materials readily... and the paucity of "entertainment" is daunting over months time... The industry is just barely developed there (compared with other places/nations>
It has also been a challenge gathering and understanding the arcane data in the trade. Could you point me to sources other than OFI and EMS?
<Do you have Elizabeth Woods "working papers" ala the WCMC? The most worthwhile, accurate, significant... though always dated, incomplete... as the folks in the trade are wont to fully share their catch data>
Aquarama in S'pore seems like a must for a fledgling like me.
<Yes!>
Also, why did Walt Smith choose Fiji and Tonga?
<An involved story. I will cc Walt here and ask his input. Yes, he really is that good a competitor and fine person to boot>
Are the conditions for doing business there as inviting as it was in 1989/90?
<IMO, no... the government and NGO wanna-be "environmentalist" concerns are more and more impinging and impacting the industry... and the cost of air-freight took a big jump earlier this year, and is scheduled to jump again... But nonetheless, the resource is absolutely fabulous.>
Yes, I concur with you on the M'sian scenario. Their ostensible aim is to protect the environment but on the other hand, it seemed ok to decimate thousands of acres of forests in East Malaysia (Sarawak) for the Bakun Hydro Electric project.
Awaiting your feedback.
Best,
Bala
(Nebula Reefs International)
<Again, I wish there was something we could do to "open up" Malaysia. If memory serves, I e-chatted with a person earlier in '02 who led me to believe marine livestock collection was going to be allowed there. Bob Fenner>

Re: Collection Station
Dear Bob,
I leave for NJ tomorrow. I will attend MACNA XIV, barring any unforeseen circumstances at the clients site.
<See you then, there>
Yes, I would very much like to be on your diving friends email mail-out list!
<Done>
Could you please elaborate/elucidate on the topic regarding selling to Walt Smith.
<His companies buy from many others in the South Pacific (and elsewhere). You might do well to at least initially utilize him as a distributor for your livestock... much easier than handling the documentation, sales, collections (yes, a problem) by "doing it yourself">
And there is an upside to being a pioneer in Vanuatu compared to finding a niche in places like Fiji and Tonga. Nevertheless, it is something I will find out in several weeks time. I should be able to get whatever that is lacking from Australia or New Zealand right?
<Don't know if I'm following you here. Yes to there being different organisms from this region>
With regards to Malaysia, I had a relative personally approach the Fisheries Dept. (Lembaga Kemajuan Perikanan Malaysia) and obtain info. from the horses mouth. They must've confused fish for consumption with the ornamental trade.
<I see>
Talk to you soon.
Best,
Bala
<Bob Fenner>

Re: Collection Station
Dear Mr. Fenner,
Thanks for the prompt reply. Actually, I was bent on starting in Solomon Islands because of their relaxed laws on immigration, business etc. the presence of Malaysian logging companies and also affordable labor.
<All plus points. If you can stand the possibility of being shot or your business being confiscated... be my guest>
The Marshall islands currency is US dollars and may be too costly to start with. On the other hand, the exchange rate for 1USD = 7.25 Solomon Dollars.
<Agreed... and for good reason>
Are your observation of these islands anecdotal or first hand? Have you visited any of the islands I have mentioned?
<I have been to all of them>
I intend to scope-out some of these islands within the next 3-4 weeks. Am trying to beat the rainy season. I was thinking of flying from Lax to Sydney and plan my trips from there. It is really hard to come to a decision from here. And I will not be able to visit all the islands mentioned. I have 10 days research so 3 islands would be tops.
<Not enough time... I have a proposition for you... come and visit in the U.S. (Los Angeles) and I will gladly take you around... or join us on our sojourns about (diving, traveling), we go somewhere almost every month. Are you attending Aquarama in May?>
And I really don't want to go against the "800 pound gorilla" in Fiji unless I have to.
Looking forward to your feedback and direction.
Best,
Bala
<Be chatting, Bob Fenner>

Calico 'xanthic' passer angel
Hello Bob,
I just now discovered your site...wow! It looks great and like a lot of fun.
Certainly a lot more fun then the politics of the trade, the MAC stuff etc.
<Same old garbage. Folks looking to make a buck from others efforts>
I thought you might be interested in seeing a one of a kind calico passer I just caught a month ago. Its on my newly emerging website which I'll send you the address to.
<Ahh, I have a few of these images myself... from the years back when we distributed organisms from the Islas Revillagigedos.>
Look under collection photos and then more collection photos.
There's a hybrid passer/clarion in there as well.
<Thank you> Keep up
the good work,
<Will endeavor to do so.>
Sincerely, Steve Robinson
Cortez Marine
<Be seeing you, Bob Fenner>

Re: (no subject) web site address...cortez marine
Bob,
Did you get the other message?
I just saw your Holacanthus page and wanted to show you the calico mulatto passer!
Steve
<Ah yes, thank you. Where are you nowadays? Still collecting out of Mexico? Talk with Chris Turk in recent times? Bob F>

Web site address...Cortez marine
Here's my website.
http://pages.sbcglobal.net/cortez/
sincerely, Steve 
<Esteban, so? Bob Fenner>

Importing Marine livestock
Dear Mr. Fenner,
How do you do? I wrote to you sometime ago regarding starting my own marine ornamental livestock business. I have been very busy but Ah!, what great joy I derive from this project !
<Very glad to hear/read>
I would like to know if I need an IMPORT license for livestock from South East Asia or any part of the world for that matter? 
<Mmm, possibly a few permits... are you familiar with CITES?>
I will be getting a sample of livestock from Indonesia shortly. Do I require special papers for samples as well?
<Yes... please contact either myself, Steve, Anthony... or a Customs Broker in the town/airport where you plan on receiving your shipments... there's a bit of paperwork involved... and you want to be familiar with the process in advance. Bob Fenner>
Please advise.
Best,
Mimi Eliza Rogers

New Marine Supplier/Aquaculture from Ecuador
hello Bob.
my name is Jaime Saavedra from Salinas/ Ecuador in the middle of sud America and I been working in shrimp hatcheries for more than 10 years.
the shrimp business here are very bad. and now I also working with salt and fresh water fish. now I finish my very first catalog of reef fishes in Ecuadorian coast. a few years ago I been in Omaha aquarium in a intershipment. and I think I have a lot of interesting species a
of fishes. mollusks and crustaceans.
if you want more information please mail me.
thank for your time a sorry for my ingles
Jaime E Saavedra
<Please do send along a listing of what you have. I will in turn distribute it among my friends, associates in the trade. Nos vemos, Bob Fenner>

New York (by way of Johannesburg)
Bobster...
I've been chatting with some nice folks starting a coral farm in South Africa.
<Interesting... have met quite a few good people from this part of the world... and seems like, given their location, the make-up (socio-economic) of the populace, interests, location to resources... that this is soon to be a booming part of the trade there. You should chat with Pete (will cc him here), as he lived in Swaziland for fifteen years>
They are looking to send livestock to the US but are having difficulties of course with transit time.
<Yes.>
They have already shipped to ERI and are doing fine I hear with fishes but not as well with coral.
<... we can help them... by offering information on shipping techniques... perhaps sourcing some of the gear for same if they don't have such... Will cc some other people in the trade asking that they contact them if you'll send along their e-address/es>
The goal is to find somebody closer like New York perhaps. He has made contact with a transhipper in NY but my advice to him is to find a large wholesaler that will tank the product of course for at least a few days before resending. By his estimate it takes an average of 31 hours to get his product to New York.
Redox (maybe :p) from a transhipper and a push just would be bad.
Can you recommend any big wholesalers in NY that we can pass along to him (his name is Adi from Coral Farm LTD).
<Not at this time... unfortunately I just don't know anyone there well enough to make this connection>
I guess I have only know NY for mostly freshwater fishes (SA transshipped goods... some marine Red Sea product, not much else marine save for a trickle of East Africa eh?)
Thoughts bud?
<Will broadcast to the trade... ask for their input. Bob F>
Anthony

Marine Aquarium Industry
Dear Mr. Fenner,
<Hello>
Thanks for providing such a remarkable site for the marine hobbyist.
<A pleasure my friend>
I have developed a passion for this hobby and would like to get into the Marine Aquarium Business.
<Ah, good>
I perused Walt Smith's website and the whole idea of doing what you love most just materializes in his Fiji station.
<Yes>
Since he has already "conquered" that part of the world, could you recommend another suitable site to start my little project. I know this is a packed question...read on) :)
I was thinking Pulau Tioman, Kapas, Harimau or any of the islands on the East Coast of Malaysia. I have seen pictures at WWM taken at Pulau Redang so I am guessing you've traversed these islands. Are the species of fish/inverts/coral/rock from that part of the world in good demand?
<Indeed they are>
Which brings to mind, on one of my trips to M'sia, I caught a juvenile Chelmon Rostratus with my bare hands along the East Coast of M'sia (Port Dickson), some 100 km from Kuala Lumpur. I always thought that these species only existed in the Indian Ocean and around Australia.
<No... wider spread>
Do offer some advice or please point me in the right direction.
<What would you like to know? Can you grant me insight into your background (business, technical, industry related...) and aspirations? Have you lived in Malaysia? Familiar with their laws, customs? Do you have time to visit similar operations?>
Thanks in advance and "be chatting"! :)
Best,
Mimi Eliza
<Welcome to our trade. Bob Fenner>

Re: Marine Aquarium Industry
Dear Mr. Fenner,
Thank you very much for the prompt reply. I wasn't really expecting an answer as it differed from the regular ones on WWM.
How are you getting along?
<Fine my friend>
In answer to your questions: I have lived in M'sia all my life and moved to the US some 6 years ago. I am a Software Consultant for America's largest Application Service Provider (ASP) in the HealthCare industry.
My job has grown mundane (although it pays really well) and my father has always inspired and pushed me to go into business for myself.
<Outstanding. All should be self-employed at least once>
(He is in the rubber recycling industry). For me, the measure of ones success is doing what one truly love and making a living out of it. I feel strongly about the Marine Aquarium Industry and I know that it is good for my soul.
<Very well>
I have no industry experience so I will make up for the lack of it with careful study and planning. I am planning to visit similar operations in Malaysia, India and the Maldives this Xmas. However, I have no knowledge of their whereabouts which is why I have come to you. Any input from you will be invaluable.
<Mmm, I will cc some friends in the trade here and ask that they contact you, perhaps offer insights, a letter of introduction to their and others facilities>
In terms of finances, I have many relatives working in top positions in Malaysian banks and there is no problem getting a loan granted to finance my project. Laws and customs are all too familiar.
Question:
--------------
1) If I were to setup a facility in East Malaysia, where would be the best mid-point (holding facility) before shipping to the US? Or do I ship directly to the US?
<Directly likely. There are some variations on this theme worth exploring however>
2) You mentioned that there is a good demand for livestock from these parts of the world. Could you please provide me with a list of suppliers who will be interested to talk to me (in the LA / Bay / Florida area) ?
<Yes... again, at this juncture it is best (most expedient, "comfortable") for me to introduce you through bcc'ing folks here>
3) I also have family in Trinidad and Tobago. I am quite certain that they have species of livestock which are in good demand.
Do you think it is better do operate from there compared to M'sia. I know I have a strong "base" in M'sia, but the distance really bothers me. I may have to invest more in a mid-point holding facility. What are your thoughts?
<I have visited both Trinidad and Tobago... there are severe limits to what can be found there... and shipped to major markets (biological and legal/economic constraints)... I would operate out of Malaysia>
4) Is there a shortage of supply coming from the Fiji/Tonga/Marshall islands? Maybe I could find a niche in that market ?
<Only somewhat... the laws (are presently) more favorable from these islands than elsewhere... but you certainly will have more going for you, your business out of Malaysia... less competition, help with laws, finance... hopefully the airlines>
5) Where can I find statistics in this industry? e.g. stats on demand/supply, costs, revenue?
<These are a bit hard to get hold of... there are trade associations (OFI especially) and arcane-to-search for literature (see Elizabeth Wood's name in this association) to assist you>
I will stop here for now.
<To stop at what can be understood is a high achievement>
I have a plethora of questions that will follow this mail.
<I look forward to the interaction>
"Terima kasih" in advance and "a bientot j'espere mon ami" !
<You are welcome in turn my friend. Bob Fenner>
Sincerely,
Mimi Eliza

Wholesalers that deal with small outfits?
Hi whoever may answer this,
I tried this on WWF and no one answered so...
I have been trying to work this tank in this city, Albuquerque, and yesterday I talked to a newer store and couldn't believe it. I had bad luck with an online Jawfish (probably shipping stress-- lived for about a week and never ate), anyway I found a local store. They were serious when they said they would order one (unlike the rest of the places around here). The guy, though I don't think the owner, is a REAL enthusiast and insists on keeping the Jawfish a full two weeks in a tank by himself. He wants him eating and settled before I take him. I am way too happy about this!!
<sounds like a fine retailer to support>
But gosh the folk around here are living in the dark ages. The way they get saltwater fish is: they make out an order send it to a second company. This company has no tanks. The day they get the delivery from CA, they go out in their pickup and deliver. So the fish have to go thru a longer stressful shipping day then usual. 
<not at all uncommon>
It also ups the cost of the fish. I was wondering if you all would know of someone who deals with smaller orders (maybe $120-200)? I told him about Quality Marine and ORA (I think ORA at least deals with small orders?)
<many companies will... tell your dealer to subscribe to a good trade magazine like Pet Age, Pet Supplies Marketing or Pet Business. They have hundreds of pages of contacts and distributors. But his best bet is actually to go to LA at least one time and tour the hottest spot for wholesalers on 104th street. All of the big boys are there... QM, SDC, WSI, etc. It will be the best investment in his marine sections... actually meeting and seeing the suppliers. Order from there. Better yet, look up a fish picker in LA to pay $30-50 hr/order to cherry pick your order for you... trained eyes and ears picking the best and healthiest fish rather than minimum wage workers filling remote orders>
I think the business would go up-- as everybody I have met here orders online just because they can't find what they want. If they could they would not deal with shipping costs. This is also a small town in some ways, word will get around.
Also do you know of any resources for modernizing? They bought the shop from someone else and they have UGF, separate tanks (though the separate tanks are nice for my Jawfish-- not so nice for keeping up), and Skilters!!
<yes... attending the national trade shows and conferences are the best place to see technologies and get samples/ideas... MACNA is in Dallas this September... HH Backer has several shows yearly... other organizations have many on the West Coast. Your LFS needs to get more involved with the business side of his trade (starting with the above listed mag.s for contacts and show dates)>
(That is more or less typical here, btw). I don't think they have RO as the guy says he fights diatoms all the time. I hope you can help, we are getting a nice little aquarium group started here, so I know there is interest in having at least one good source for fishies and inverts.
<excellent to see you helping them get on the right foot!>
Thanks,--des
<Anthony>

Dave Palmer contact
Bob, have corresponded with Anthony a few times. Saw on your WWM site of a Dave palmer, who looks to be an importer/transhipper. Could you pass his contact info (email or phone) to me.
<Mmm, could but don't. I will forward a message by you to others... it's up to them if they want to communicate with others>
Also, did you get that Amazon contribution from me ? Don't know if that went through or not. Thanks
Ed
<You're raising Mike.K's blood pressure (who monitors such things), but yes. Thank you, Bob Fenner>

Re: Dave Palmer contact
Well, you can pass this information along as well. We're debating bringing in 100+ giant clams as an additional supply for some of the stores I deal with. The debate is whether to get our own US F&W permit and bring them in directly, or to work with a transhipper. Thanks for passing this along.
<Ahh! I think I can be of more use to you my friend, than simply making an indirect reference. For this number of clams I would deal with a U.S. intermediary... I will cc your note to friends/associates in the trade, asking if they will please contact you, introduce themselves, their services. For a hundred clams there is no real sense to trying to "DIY" importing them I assure you. If/when you can handle several hundred at a time, on a regular basis... Bob Fenner>
Ed

Re: Dave Palmer contact (actually a lead for 100 tridacnids)
It is actually several hundred. We plan on doing several hundred to thousand holding/grow-out at any given time, and move on average at least 100-200/month. It will take several weeks/months to stabilize the flow/delivery and everything else. As it is wholesale, margins are small enough as it is, that the only real options are transshipping and/or direct importation. I've already been in contact with a few Mariculture farms overseas and can satisfy their quantities. Just working the numbers from a transshipment point of view as well, and determining viability.
<I'm beginning to see. Edward, do we know each other in the trade aside from here? Please understand me... I am guarded re getting folks (or aiding them on the path) into trouble. Have you worked in the industry? In a livestock distribution capacity? I would like to know how I might best help you at this point... two different individuals have sought my assistance re tridacnids in recent months. Please read here: http://www.wetwebmedia.com/clambizfaqs.htm and the links beyond... for similar input.>
Also toying with greenhouse viability/grow out, rather than internal
warehousing with MH lighting.
<A possibility... many things (well only a handful principally) to consider... the relative costs of build-out, ongoing use/maintenance (energy costs, thermal insulation...), rents... Bob Fenner>
Ed

Aeromonas hydrophila epidemic in Java
Hi Bob
I came across this article in the Jakarta Post on my flight home from Bali. According to the article 820 tons of goldfish worth about US$35 million died as a result. Better warn your friends if you have contacts who import fish from Java Indonesia.
<You have just done so>
The diving at Tulamben is still great!!
<I'll bet. See you soon, hopefully on a dive trip. Bob Fenner>
Perry