Livestocking a store - 10/07/2007
Hello Again,
We have spoken before and I am a frequent reader to the site that has really helped out quite a bit. So thanks for that :)
<Welcome>
First a comment on some of the tips you have given and some feedback on results. I asked months ago about getting in touch with a cherry picker/Jobber for regular stocking of a store that had been in business for over 15 years. You had recommended The guys at fish heads, and quality marine.
<Both fine outfits>
I see that QM is a supporter of the site so If feelings may be hurt feel free to delete post as needed :)
<We post all>
We were at the time only dealing with SDC, ERI, UWW, ORA. What happened was that our 1st order was a bell ringer so to say where the corals were simply amazing then tapered off to the usual ..ssssshhh...tuff :) When feedback was given there was no reason given just promises of better quality product in the future that was never fulfilled. Sad to say the least.
I eventually did find a jobber in CA that was a pleasure to work with and the quality over the past 6 weeks has been getting BETTER!! crazy to think of !!! I don't want to mention any names on here as it offers competition to the market... sorry guys and gals! We on average spend about $5,000 per week and our jobber is now getting all of our business.
<A good sized business for sure>
The reason for the email today is that I am currently looking for a trans-shipper out of Australia. We have already set-up a piggyback with our jobber who is fine with it and promises not to open our boxes. We currently have on call about 4 trans-shippers but none out of Australia. Any tips would be greatly appreciated.
<... Mmmm, do you have facilities for holding such shipments? I want to comment re all levels of dealing with collected livestock... transhipping, wholesale, jobber... in that the companies appraised are "only as good as their last shipment" typically... And secondly, that transhipping, even from generally excellent country/sources are Australia is fraught with perils... I would continue piggybacking if I were a sole retailer (as opposed let's say to a chain that can justify the volume)... Bob Fenner>
Thanks In Advance :)
Brian

Re: Livestocking a store  10/11/07
Bob and WWM crew
Thanks for the quick response and thanks for the honesty:)
We currently have a quarantine location for approximately 300 corals at any given time. The main purpose of this is to ensure healthy specimens and that any hitch-hikers are dealt with appropriately.
<And to add... to ensure an adequate "rest" period>
The systems are each treated individually based on species. ie. SPS tanks are monitored closely for things like Acro eating FW's and Monti Eating FW's, Zoanthids for pyrediad snails (spelling?).
<Pyramidellid likely>
The problem with continuing as normal is that one of our main competition is getting Austr. corals and we are not and for this reason we are loosing business. We are also trying to stay on the cutting edge of the wants and desires of the few propagators in the area, as well as customers looking to do so and turn a profit. Also with getting Australian corals the store also actively participates in propagation of the corals in house.
<Okay>
I can understand the concern about the corals in transit as we have dealt with trans-shippers previously, we have a system in place for animals that arrive stressed where we acclimate them in a large bin of their water with a heater and a large skimmer and slowly acclimate them to our holding/quarantine tanks. Once temp is where it should be we will move the hardiest corals first one at a time. We monitor the response from the corals as am sure you know they do communicate with us. If a coral does not respond well to the move we take longer on the acclimation for the rest of the lot. we have been hugely successful with this and have reduced 24 hour deaths to under 10% on any order delayed once.
<Yes...>
Just to reiterate we have no intentions of transshipping any fish, anemone, and shrimps, snails, etc. It is not worth the sad amount of loss of the animals (sometimes over 60%). When it comes to items like this we stick with SDC, F/H, etc as they rarely get their shipments off loaded due to sheer size (or so it seems to me). Plus they get unpacked a good 8 hours before ours. We are willing to pay more for the health of these animals.
Please Help us out :)
Thanks again you are a blessing to those who care!
Brian
<My young friend... I have NO idea who you are... Are you competent? Honest? I will NOT refer strangers to friends in the trade. I WILL BCC you here. B>

Re: Livestocking a store
Add on to email sent earlier, In addition to the e-mail sent earlier Re: Austr. transshipper  10/11/07
We only want to trans-ship corals no fish. We are only looking for saltwater livestock, and we aren't looking to receive 3000 corals at once we are looking to get approximately 50 to 100 corals at any given time.
<... need to piggyback such small orders>
I've seen that Bob F may not know someone well enough to recommend but I'm willing to give them a try. The more names of Austr. trans-shippers the better. Thanks Again
Brian
<... keep reading, studying. B>

Re: Livestocking a store 10/16/07
Hello again!
Thanks for the response we have spoken before about finding a jobber / cherry picker. I was the one who mentioned that we do the "Club Card". I can understand your concerns with referring strangers to friends. I don't know how to rectify this issue, and it seems to be the major hold up. All that I can hope is that your contact contacts me in the near future, and he/ she gives you positive "feedback" on us. Thanks so much for the time and help.
Brian
<Let's see if any folks respond to you directly... Most all Australian collectors are "full-up", don't have any more stock to sell... Do you buy out of Vietnam directly? I do hope to run into you at one of the major industry shows. Will gladly introduce you about if so. Bob Fenner>

Re: Livestocking a store 10/21/07
Thanks for the contact Bob! And welcome back !!
<Thanks Bri>
We currently do not export directly from Vietnam, Seems kinda like an area that I am personally not comfortable with nor have we made a contact there. If there was a reputable company there that was exporting with MAC standards and didn't have children diving and or using cyanide or TNT then we would consider the opportunity. I'm personally concerned with things also coming out of areas that are not farmed due to CITES.
<We are in confluence here>
If you have a contact that you are comfortable with Bob then I'll trust ya!
<Mmm, none that I trust exclusively, unfortunately>
I plan to go to MACNA next year (2008) Hopefully I'll see you there! Or if there are any large events going on soon on the eastern sea board that are going on I could make the trip to meet you ! Thanks again Bob :)
Brian
<None that I know of... See you in Atlanta! BobF>

Supplier/Tranship question – 09/08/07
Howdy folks,
I own a small marine LFS in Salisbury, NC. Generally all my stock comes through vendors I've done business with in the past (managed other stores, now opened my own in July '06). Recently I was contacted by phone and asked if I would like to receive a price list for livestock. I said yes and was sent a huge list, what I didn't realize until getting it that it's for a transshipment, not from wholesale distributor.
My question is multi-part: Does anyone have any personal knowledge/experiences with these guys (good, bad, whatever), is the savings of transshipment worth it from perspective of cost/stock mortality/cargo hassles?
<All sorts... I've been one... been their customer, their supplier... Can be a worthwhile approach IF you have the knowledge, expertise, capital to risk AND the facilities to accommodate the volume AND the sales to make all make sense...>
In past stores I always purchased from MAC certified wholesale distributors and local aqua-farmers which out of habit if nothing else I have continued to do. I haven't had to perform a transshipment before, what are the ins and outs? The prices are outrageously low compared to my normal wholesalers...BTW, the company is " Fish in the Bag, Inc."...
Cheers,
Logan
ps. feel free to edit
<Please read here: http://www.wetwebmedia.com/AqBizSubWebIndex/Biz%20Index/Biz%20index.htm
The files linked in the fifth tray down under "Livestocking".
Bob Fenner>

Wholesale, Transhipper question   3/21/07
Hello WWM Crew, I have a very general question regarding dealing with wholesalers and transhippers.
<Some slip and slide here twixt players...>
I am considering starting up a production facility for freshwater ornamentals in Hawaii. However, I am concerned with shipping costs to the mainland
<You are wise here>
and would like to know the potential advantages or disadvantages of dealing with wholesalers vs. transhippers.
I have seen some literature that suggests that direct marketing to retailers would be the best way to go. I was wondering if someone could shed a little light on this matter? It would be great to get some, "if I were in your shoes..." advice.  (Joe G.)
<I do wish there were some sort of clear-cut definitions to be proffered here... Or even a "this is better" position to take, point out... However, "wholesalers" may well do little for their margin... or worse, simply delay the starvation and stress of provided livestock... themselves barely buying and re-shipping the stock... In the "real world" (what is this anyway?), I would seek out and deal with "real players"... What I call "A" players in our trade (I am unabashedly one)... and forego any dealing with non "A" players... yourself always striving to be one... Perhaps a trip to the upcoming Aquarama show in Singapore would be the best money you've ever invested here... Steve Lundblad of Dolphin International is an "A" player... and the largest transhipper of FW livestock on the planet... Bob Fenner>

Clean vs. Dirty lists
Bob---Do you know anything about this????
Suze
Dear Ms. Crews,
I am a subscriber to your magazine, a long time reader and enjoy every issue very much. I recently received a seed catalog from J. L. Hudson Seeds and read an article in the catalog about the proposed "White List" that supposedly is a plan by certain groups within the US government to ban all importation and possession of fish, plants and virtually any living thing. I find it hard to believe. Please tell me, what if anything do you know about it.
Thanks,
David Noll
Harlingen, Texas 
<Mmm, well, there have been occasions... revisions of the Lacey/Black Bass Act... that have proposed a "clean list" (as they have in Australia) versus what we currently have (a "dirty list") of organisms specifically disallowed... much easier for extremist governments to allow in just a few... in the name of "environmental protection" (we need to get rid of most government actually)... But have not heard this nonsense sprouting back up again. Bob Fenner>

Import question
Is there a site, or a book, or a magic wand that gives ins and outs of importing marine species that doesn't take a PHD to understand???
<Mmm, no book or wand... but no need for a doctorate either>
I'm trying to find out just what is holding up the importation of seahorses and seeing (since I cant get the cooperation from wholesalers) if its possible to just bypass the middle man and do it myself!
<Possible, but expensive and time-consuming... Understand that the same sorts of economic restrictions apply to pet-fish biz as all others... the various governments are there to... control you and I, and pay for their civil servants through "taxes" (permits, fees...)... so, there is red-tape. And there are economies of scale at play as well... the wholesale sources need to sell a good number (usually hundreds) of organisms at a go to make the sale profitable... and the airlines charge much less per unit (volume, weight) in larger, regular shipments... and Customs is going to charge you a minimum fee whether you have one seahorse or thousands...>
Can you point me in the right direction?? I've talked to my usual wholesaler, who blames it on Fish & Game. Fish and Game says its all about getting a license from the exporting countries.....
<Fish and Game organizations at the state level have nothing to do with this... exporting countries/companies do need to have a few licenses to collect, export... e.g. CITES>
.I know there is no easy answer but do you know who I can talk to either A) import myself or B) give the wholesalers a hand in getting it done??
Thanks!
Jody Webb
Frustrated Seahorse Addict
<Do chat these issues over with the folks at syngnathid.com
I suspect that the people there have much more pertinent information. Bob Fenner>

Future transshipper/wholesaler
I am beginning my transition from military to civilian life...I am sure of one thing I do not want to work for someone else.  
<Everyone should be self-employed at least once... and married at least twice>
I am interested in beginning a fresh water/marine transship/wholesale business in southern California. I wanted to have 100 freshwater tanks and 100 saltwater tanks.  
<Okay>
That I am sure about.  One of the things that is troubling me though is the tanks...I was quoted from SD Plastics each tank would cost me around $174.  Is that reasonable?
<Mmm, how big are these? You REALLY should visit (you're welcome to come with me (we live in San Diego) and look over some existing operations... you do want "flat" tanks of a particular size (natural cuts of  4 X 8' sheets of acrylic make this so)... and your drains, stands that are sumps... made carefully>
I don't think it is.  Is there a place where I could find equipment used?
<Very possibly yes. Once again, the place to look, ask here is Los Angeles... the places still in business buy companies out who have closed, know folks who are going>
I am trying to do this without financing any of my start-up costs.
I hope you can answer my questions...
Thank you for your time and help
Ray Newlan
<Let's keep chatting Ray, till you feel absolutely comfortable with this proposition. There are many critical things to know. I can/will help you. Bob Fenner, out in HI for the month diving for shells, running, drinking...>

Re: Future transshipper/wholesaler
Ahhhh...Hawaii...the drunken sailor memories...
The tanks from SD plastics were 24*24*12...that quote was actually from like the beginning of the year.
<These tanks are too small to be of use. You will find that twice the gallonage can more safely accommodate three times as many organisms>
Their quote kind of took my interest away from getting into the business.
I would love to see how some of the operations here in the U.S. work.  You let me know when and I'm there...
<I will be back in S. Cal. in early November>
My wife and I have about 60 freshwater tanks in Tijuana, we run a wholesale business there.  A friend in Mexico City got us started.  Our set-up, in my eyes primitive, uses sponge filters where the fish don't pollute the water too much.  And my goldfish, guppy, molly set up is not a central filtration system but the water is constantly changing.
<This latter is best>
I am really eager to learn more and am all ears to whomever is willing to teach me something.  
Thanks
Ray
<Help is available. Bob F>

Questions about importing
Hello Bob. How's it going? My name is Brahm, I met you a while back at Octopus's Gardens down in San Diego (Before Jason moved to Florida).
<Ah yes... and he may be coming back... maybe just flying with the hurricane winds!>
We talked about my thoughts on opening up a store, well things are looking like they are moving in the right direction, but I had a question, and I was wondering if you might be able to help point me in correct direction.  I met somebody online, in Melbourne, Australia. Who came across some very nice Favias, and Acanthastreas lordhowensis & hillae. They are going to ship them to a friend of mine in New South Wales who can hold them for.
She is also willing to ship them to me, but we aren't quite sure what we need to do on the Australian side to obtain the proper permits for a one
time shipment if such a thing exists.
<Yes... they do... there are some Customs forms to file and CITES permits... that hopefully can be filled out on the Australian end and used all the way through to (LAX?) here. A very good idea to actually see, ask around to see if you can "piggy back" your small order with someone in the area (LA likely) who will umbrella your few boxes with their "can" (airfreight container)... otherwise the cost for individually doing this is going to be quite high. I am going to cc a friend in the trade, Barry Neigut of Clamsdirect.com (who is, or has just opened a retail outlet in SD) and ask him for input here. Maybe he knows someone who will co-op your shipment.>
What would be the best means to export these pieces from Australia?
<The best? Don't know what you're looking for here... doubled 4 mil poly bags, clip closures, styros, cardboard liners... in cargo container quantities, with you receiving ASAP from customs, your freight forwarder... IF you have NOT done this before, DO go, chat with people in the trade who DO on a regular basis. Am going to cc another friend in the trade, Eric Cohen, who owns and runs Sea Dwelling Creatures in LA, and ask him if he'd help you here... Importing aquatic livestock is "not for the feint of heart" or "light of wallet" to put this mildly... "Things" go wrong... all the time... shipments delayed, re-routed, time lost and lost and lost... disputes with carriers... DOAs... You REALLY need a large, going business, holding facilities... to justify doing what you propose... unless you're "just experimenting" here or hoping to get some unusual specimens... all this is going to cost you a few to several times what these organisms will/would cost you by ordering, picking them up at a distributor...>
Are there any coral export facilities that I might be able to go through (that are trust worthy with such rare pieces)?
<Yes. Ask Eric here>
Or would I be better of obtaining the permits on my own. I've talked to Dave over at Pacific Aqua, and I think I can use his Cities on
Stateside, (or if you can point me to a broker). I would appreciate that...
<This is very nice of the folks at PAF... if they will co-op with you and you feel comfortable dealing with them. They also definitely know what they're doing>
Although I'm not too worried about the cost, I would like to look into maybe offsetting some of the expense by bringing over a larger shipment of other items (SPS, or hopefully more Acans if I can find them) which I can resale to diffuse the cost.
<Bingo!>
But my main goal is just to get the Acanthastreas lordhowensis as I have been doing quite well with propagating the current pieces that I was lucky to either trade for, or pick up at LFS mis-labeled as Blastomussa wellsi
<I see>
Included are a few pictures of the actual pieces. There are a total of 10.
Thanks for your time.
-Brahm Goodis.
<Glad to be of assistance. Bob Fenner>

Re: Questions about importing
Hey all,
<Hi Eric, thanks for chiming in>
From what I understand here, the corals are coming from Australia.  To  make this conversation brief, it's illegal to export corals from  Australia.  
Unless you can get a cites permit from the government office  that works with cites permits...I think you are out of luck.
If you find a way (a legal way), please let me in on it and we would be   happy to assist you and give you your best chances to get the corals here alive and economically.
Best regards.....HI BOBBIE!
Eric
<Thanks mate. See you about. Bob Fenner>

Looking for feesh
I'm looking for a marine fish transhipper I was wondering if you could help  
me out thanks
<... uhhh, from where? To where? Are you a large/small operation? Are you familiar with CITES laws, regulations? Have airfreight relations, an airport nearby? Please read here: http://www.ornamental-fish-int.org/mainpage-banner.asp?aid=9580&gid=4790
Bob Fenner>

Coral Distribution - Pitfalls and Perils
Bob,
<Brandon>
Hi my name is Brandon Hill. I saw some of your posts in regards to owning your own business, and coral distribution. I am a small business owner for a coral company here in Utah. We are currently using PAF to get all of our livestock that we distribute. We are interested in spreading our wings just a little more though and using a transhipper or even contacting divers direct, and piggy backing the orders into the US.
<A worthwhile consideration... though fraught with danger, hassles... You have enough room to store, business volume to justify this I take it>
We, as in my business partner, Nolan Dobson and I are quite lucky to have access to acrylic tanks however large or small
in size we want them, since Nolan owns Proplastics an acrylic company. I don't want to make this long because I know that you are SWAMPED with emails, but I was hoping that you could lead me in the right direction with some transhippers and divers, that we could go with, that have served others well in the past. Dave Palmer is a close friend of Nolan's, and has helped us out thus far tremendously. If you could help out in any way it would be much appreciated.
Best Regards, Brandon T. Hill
<I want to be understood here, and am fearful, as not knowing you, that I may be seen as being offensive (this is not my intent), but are you sure you want to do this at this juncture? As stated, there is MUCH to go wrong... with bad shipments, CITES trouble/s, air freight delays... And, I would have to know you MUCH better to make referrals as this... Please don't take this personally... as this would be my statement to any/all... Introducing you is tantamount to an endorsement in our industry (overseas)... Do we know other people in common? For instance, are you friends with Dave Palmer or Walt Smith of PAF? How to re-start, re-state what I'm getting at here?... IF your volume can justify this "savings", DO make it known how many boxes you might be ready to handle... and that you know how much actual money you'll have to outlay for a shipment, co-shipment... This IS a very big step... and I do NOT want to be part of hurting your business. Bob Fenner>